0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 01 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 63      Contents:/ A few Apache CSWS questions: htaccess, php_info 0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia& Re: DCL script for a dummy like me ...& Re: DCL script for a dummy like me ...8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA- Re: Fortune article and subsequent commentary - Re: Fortune article and subsequent commentary - Re: Fortune article and subsequent commentary 5 How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences? 9 Re: How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences? 9 Re: How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences? 9 Re: How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences? # Re: Its the applications dummy !!!! & Re: Lets all pitch in and buy OpenVMS!& Re: Lets all pitch in and buy OpenVMS!. Re: List of DEC boards to be auctioned on Ebay. Re: List of DEC boards to be auctioned on Ebay. Re: List of DEC boards to be auctioned on Ebay. Re: List of DEC boards to be auctioned on Ebay& Moving from Alpha to Integrity Webcast* Re: Moving from Alpha to Integrity Webcast* Re: Moving from Alpha to Integrity Webcast Re: MySQL problem  Re: MySQL problem  Re: MySQL problem  Re: MySQL problem 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 6 Re: OpenVMS What's New - January Announcements Updated6 Re: OpenVMS What's New - January Announcements Updated6 Re: OpenVMS What's New - January Announcements Updated6 Re: OpenVMS What's New - January Announcements Updated6 Re: OpenVMS What's New - January Announcements Updated Suggestion for VAX VMS 8.2 Re: VAX 4000 m500A problem  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2005 14:24:35 -0800 From: mcbill20@yahoo.com8 Subject: A few Apache CSWS questions: htaccess, php_infoB Message-ID: <1107210275.506299.66320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  C Apache, PHP and Python are now up and running OK for the most part. E However, I can't seem to get any kind of authorization working. I saw F that someone in COV had asked this same question in October but no one had replied.  @ I am trying to use the password file from htpasswd.exe to enable@ password protection on certain directories. I tried both using aG .htaccess file in the directory and also adding lines to httpd.conf but E nothing works. I made sure that mod_auth is being loaded. Here is the # auth specific config in httpd.conf:    ... 6 LoadModule access_module        modules/mod_access.exe4 LoadModule auth_module          modules/mod_auth.exe ...  # C # AllowOverride controls what directives may be placed in .htaccess  files.> # It can be "All", "None", or any combination of the keywords:% #   Options FileInfo AuthConfig Limit  #    AllowOverride AuthConfig   ...  <Directory /home/*/public_html> / AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit Indexes > Options MultiViews Indexes SymLinksIfOwnerMatch IncludesNoExec   AuthType Basic AuthName "User Directory" % AuthUserFile /passwords/passwords.dat   ! <Limit GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>  Order allow,deny Require valid-user </Limit>' <LimitExcept GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>  Order deny,allow
 Deny from all  </LimitExcept> </Directory> ...   D I tried moving the "require valid-user" up below the others but that didn't do anything either.  : Here is the .htaccess file that I put in a user directory: ###################  AuthType Basic AuthName "Restricted Files" 1 AuthUserFile /apache$root/passwords/passwords.dat  AuthUserOpenVMS on Require valid-user ###################   A The AuthUserOpenVMS was another experiment to try another method.   F The problme is that CSWS never even tries to access these files. I canE browse to any file in the apache$root[htdocs] tree or the php tree or ? the user directories, but it never checks for a password. I put ; security alarm ACL's on the .htaccess files and also on the 3 passwords.dat file but the files never get touched.   E The previous person that asked about this said it worked OK with CSWS A 1.3 but stopped working with CSWS 2.0. The version I have is 2.0.  Here's the config:   CSWS 2.0! VMS 7.3-1 with VMS731_UPDATE V5.0   
 Any ideas?  G Lastly, and not a huge issue...I was curious about the PHPINFO routine. F It works fine and my PHP Oracle OCI access works fine. However, on theD PHPINFO page, it says Oracle is enabled but has no values for OracleE version, SID, etc. The OCI8 config says the same-- that it is enabled A but no values for Oracle home, compile-time version, etc. I poked D around in the PHP source but am clueless as to where it usually gets
 this info.   Thanks.  Bill McLaughlin  Thanks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 02:33:07 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia - Message-ID: <87brb5bg9o.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   2 Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes:  4 >>>Note the wikki entry is incorrect for soft links.  8 I made an error here, I thought it was discussing ODS-2,# not 5. 5 may have proper softlinks.   ' >> Though, hopefully, not for long :) !   E > Is that certain? In the OpenVMS Roadmap just released you will find . > the following in the PPT Notes for slide 15.  D > In VMS 8.2 Symbolic links or (soft links) will be delivered. TheseF > UNIX file link are akin to logical names on OpenVMS except they willB > span across systems. As a result of this the TCP/IP services NFS@ > also has an understanding of Symbolic Links.  DCL will also be2 > enhanced to enable management of symbolic links.@ > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm  F The ODS-2 spec included a directory format for a `logical name' ratherE than a file ID, this would then be used to spin the bits again to get  to the final file.  E I say `logical', because the entry can be a real name with no logical 6 names in it. So analogous to logicals as we know them.  A A point that is missed is that the DEC char set for file names is C picked so it fits in to other language contexts. That is the syntax E of a fiel name is defined on DCL, FORTRAN and others. In this, ODS-5   is an abomination.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 03:22:02 GMT + From: "Anthony Borla" <ajborla@bigpond.com> 9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia ? Message-ID: <uBCLd.143348$K7.110950@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message+ news:H7edncOKbdN3o2DcRVn-iw@adelphia.com...  > Keith Cayemberg wrote: > > @ > > In VMS 8.2 Symbolic links or (soft links) will be delivered.= > > These UNIX file link are akin to logical names on OpenVMS A > > except they will span across systems. As a result of this the = > > TCP/IP services NFS also has an understanding of Symbolic : > > Links.  DCL will also be enhanced to enable management > > of symbolic links.B > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm > > ? > > Were soft links dropped from the 8.2 release? I assume they B > > were, considering I didn't see them mentioned in the following > > documents... > A > Symbolic links will be coming with with an add on kit  for 8.2. % >  They are  not in the main release.  >   L So, it would seem the appropriate entry for Soft Links is 'YES', but with an explanatory note ?   > @ > Also, with the ODS-5, the case of files is preserved.  You can@ > decided  on a per process or per application basis if you want< > to treat the filenames to be case sensitive or case blind. >  > So the answer for ODS-5 is:  >  >     case_preserved = yes >     case_blind = option  >     case_sensitive = option  > > > It has been that way since at least 7.3-2, possibly earlier. > # > See $help set process/case_lookup  >   G This does seem to be interesting information, but does it warrant being  added in a footnote ?    Cheers,   
 Anthony Borla    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:24:44 -0500 ( From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com>/ Subject: Re: DCL script for a dummy like me ... , Message-ID: <41fe86e5$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  A "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org> wrote in message - news:48Rb+04XzC97@eisner.encompasserve.org... : > In article <41FC5C1E.8040803@tsoft-inc.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > > JF Mezei wrote: 
 > >> Z wrote:  > >>>Michael Austin wrote: > >>> ? > >>>>$ write sys$output f$file("login.com","file_length_hint") I > >>>>(85,3172)  !<<<<------ first number is number of records, second is  the byte count > >>>>) > >>>What a useful tidbit of information.   H > >> Doesn't the file_hint only apply to certain types of files on ODS-5	 volumes ?    Yes.  < > Except HELP LEXIC F$FILE ARG doesn't mention any specificsA > for which files the file_length_hint arg returns valid numbers. C > It mentions that an invalidated count will return -1, but not why A > it thought the count invalid.  I don't mind RTFMing, or in this 0 > case RTFHing, but sometimes HELP doesn't help.  : DCL Just hands the request to RMS and returns the results.C You actually have to go into the RMS Ref. Man. for XABITM for help. = There is almost a page worth for ITMCOD=XAB$_FILE_LENGTH_HINT    hth, Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:12:26 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> / Subject: Re: DCL script for a dummy like me ... , Message-ID: <41FE9F3A.3040603@tsoft-inc.com>   Hein wrote:   C > "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org> wrote in message / > news:48Rb+04XzC97@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > : >>In article <41FC5C1E.8040803@tsoft-inc.com>, Dave Froble >> > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >  >>>JF Mezei wrote: >>>  >>>>Z wrote: >>>> >>>>>Michael Austin wrote: >>>>>  >>>>> ? >>>>>>$ write sys$output f$file("login.com","file_length_hint") I >>>>>>(85,3172)  !<<<<------ first number is number of records, second is  >>>>>> > the byte count > ) >>>>>What a useful tidbit of information.  >>>>>  > G >>>>Doesn't the file_hint only apply to certain types of files on ODS-5  >>>> > volumes ?  >  > Yes. >  > < >>Except HELP LEXIC F$FILE ARG doesn't mention any specificsA >>for which files the file_length_hint arg returns valid numbers. C >>It mentions that an invalidated count will return -1, but not why A >>it thought the count invalid.  I don't mind RTFMing, or in this 0 >>case RTFHing, but sometimes HELP doesn't help. >> > < > DCL Just hands the request to RMS and returns the results.E > You actually have to go into the RMS Ref. Man. for XABITM for help. ? > There is almost a page worth for ITMCOD=XAB$_FILE_LENGTH_HINT     O The thing is, I've done this, and I for one am rather happy to see it done one  K time and available for anyone.  When it doesn't work, there probably is no  O available shortcut for when you 'roll your own', and the brute force method is   the only option.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:07:23 -0500 % From: John Hudak <jhudak@sei.cmu.edu> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA / Message-ID: <ctm6mn$s3v$1@usenet02.sei.cmu.edu>   F Hmmm, I didn't think they *trashed* their stuff...My understanding is G that it was moved to the west coast and only a subset of the stuff was   displayed... John     Bill Gunshannon wrote:B > In article <41f237b0$0$821$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,5 > 	Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes:  >  >>! >>MoS | Museum of Science, Boston  >>http://www.tcm.org/  >> >  > A > Isn't this the place that trashed all their real computer stuff = > including stuff that had been donated by people like Dennis ? > Ritchie?  I sure didn't see anything vintage computer related  > on thier website.  >  > bill >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:50:12 -0500 % From: John Hudak <jhudak@sei.cmu.edu> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA * Message-ID: <41FEA814.9000504@sei.cmu.edu>   Keith Cayemberg wrote:   > John Smith wrote:  >  >> patrick jankowiak wrote:  >> >>> Morten Reistad wrote:  >>>  >>> . >>>> In article <41F31CAE.6000803@swbell.net>,0 >>>> patrick jankowiak  <eccm@swbell.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>> F >>>>>> I have wanted to start a computer museum here at the UniversityD >>>>>> for a long time.  I figured if I could get commitments from aE >>>>>> few corporations for operating funds I could probably convince C >>>>>> the University to give me the necessary space.  But I really B >>>>>> don't know how to go about finding corporate sponsers.  :-(C >>>>>> My idea is to have a real hands on facility where people can B >>>>>> come in and actually play with the equipment.  I would alsoC >>>>>> make as much of it as I could available on the INTERNET with > >>>>>> guest accounts.  But, I'm probably just dreaming again. >>>> >>>> >>>>? >>>> Corporate sponsors are just as shallow. We need to come up " >>>> with a workable museum first. >>>> >>>> >>>>G >>>>> I wish we could do this. There's a hell of a datacenter here just E >>>>> waiting to be unzipped. It's what we wanted.. (makes me want to H >>>>> listen to "all we ever wanted" by Bauhaus) Man I am trying to keepH >>>>> a good mindset but this step is getting me down. It has to be done
 >>>>> though.  >>>>>  >>>>> OPCOM  >>>> >>>> >>>>C >>>> A computer museum will need large amounts of space; as well as D >>>> access to largish amounts of energy when someone decides to runH >>>> the machines. Much can be mocked up for the standard visitor, usingF >>>> emulators to show software on the correct terminals. But machinesB >>>> must be kept intact. We also have the issue of documentation. >>>>G >>>> Such space fast becomes the major problem. It cannot be in or very J >>>> near major cities, because land is too expensive there. And the scale1 >>>> of this is big enough for a full theme park.  >>>> >>>> So why not do this? >>>>F >>>> Make a theme park around technology development and preservation.D >>>> Remember that the audience is a premium one for many locations.E >>>> The nerds or wannabees that visit such places have above average D >>>> income, are not very inclined to boozing and gambling, and tend, >>>> to leave the facilities without damage. >>>>E >>>> It will have to be located somewhere outside the mainstream, and B >>>> must be the magnet for people itself. Just like Disney World. >>>> >>>> -- mrr  >>>> >>>> >>> 3 >>> Sweet.. Need $ and $.. That would be very nice, 5 >>> have everything from pre-vacuum tube stuff on up. 7 >>> A home for analog computers too, yeah.. I could see 6 >>> it on 100 acres. Mostly indoors of course as geeks% >>> don't like the hot weather much..  >>> : >>> The place could become a location of pilgrimages where; >>> acolytes could chant in octal and wizards could perform 8 >>> 5-way merges on relational databases in an afternoon5 >>> while across the park, boy electricians made huge 2 >>> sparks fly by selecting the right capacitors.. >>> 9 >>> Microphones could be placed on the HDA's of grumbling 1 >>> RA81's and during this activity, connected to : >>> amplified subwoofers under the spinning platter-shaped/ >>> floor in the next room - a "hard disk ride" / >>> "Ride the RA-81 Platter like a dust speck!!  >>> Watch out for the heads!!"- >>> Space mountain's got nothing on this one!  >>> 7 >>> Rides wouln't be the real attraction though, just a ; >>> minor diversion. The interactive exhibits of all kinds, 7 >>> that's the key. The real VAXclusters and the 11/780 : >>> with doors open to show off the cards. A LINUX Beowulf= >>> cluster, paper tape, DECtape, 9-track tape, 8-track tape. : >>> And the blinkenlights stuff in a room where the lights8 >>> dim evey several minutes or so. When the lights dim,9 >>> AM radios tuned to the music of each machine come on, 4 >>> machines programmed to play music via the RFI. I5 >>> know some remember doing that on pdp8's and other  >>> stately machines.  >>> ; >>> On the other stuff, ever programmed an analog computer?   G Why yes, and designed and built one for my SR EE project-10 amps, each  G with 5 summing junctions (sj's), 10-20turn pots, .  Even integrated it  I with a PDP11/10 to do hybrid simulations. The 'classic' problem/demo was  I an automobile suspension system. A few years later, simulated transients  C on a 6-stand rolling mill.  Now that was fun.  Something about the  G beauty of 2nd order diffeq behavior on an analog computer that is hard   to capture in bits....  5 >>> Talk about an experience. There's lots of classic 7 >>> technology pieces out there, tons of test equipment 8 >>> with real CRT's, and machines like plasma generators= >>> from depostion processes, ever notice how you can measure 4 >>> plasma density by measuring the attenuation of a. >>> microwave beam through the plasma chamber? >>> ) >>> The progress of everything high tech: 
 >>> computers  >>> RF	 >>> audio 3 >>> Germanium transistors (if anyone recalls those)  >>> plain old electricity   >>> tesla coil (very very large) >>> open-frame dynamos >>> what else? >>> # >>> Might cost what $100M to start?  >>> = >>> The only geek with enough $ to start something like that, 2 >>> and enough daring to pull it off is Mr. Gates. >>> 2 >>> It's wonderful and would probably make tons of& >>> moolah.. Who's going to call Bill? >> >> >> >>I >> You'd probably have more luck with Allen, Wozniak, and Ellison. Maybe   >> even  >> Ross Perot. >> >>K > If I remember correctly, Paul Allen used to (still?) run his own private  B > PDP-10, his favorite system. So he appears to have a history of 3 > investing in computer (DEC) history preservation.  > 	 > Cheers!  >  > K.C.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:24:36 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 6 Subject: Re: Fortune article and subsequent commentary, Message-ID: <41FEA214.7080406@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Todd wrote:   > Bob Koehler wrote: > F >> In article <l9qdnU8AQ9IjVGfcRVn-qQ@metrocastcablevision.com>, Bill ( >> Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >> >>G >>> Top billing at OpenVMS.org today has been a Fortune article on the  G >>> failure of the HP/Compaq merger and follow-up industry commentary.   >> >> >> [...] >>J >>> "HP's weakness is in having so many operating systems. They're trying = >>> to exit from the operating system business all together."  >> >> >>F >>    Saying HP has too many operating systems is like saying Goodyear >>    has too many tires.  >  > K > Duh.  It was the sentence *following* that one which seemed particularly  K > interesting - especially when delivered by someone who maintains a close  2 > professional relationship with HP in such areas.    P Yep!  The issue for those who will be impacted is how HP exits the OS business, P that is assuming that they will actually do so.  A one-liner by someone doesn't K necessarily control the future.  Otherwise, those who proclaim "the sky is  Q falling" have doomed us all, assuming that there is a physical thing called "the  M sky" that can actually fall.  One must observe that from a public visibility  O standpoint, HP hasn't done much (anything?) to lead careful observers to think  
 otherwise.  I If HP holds tight to all OS properties, to forstall someone else being a  K competitor with a better product to their selling of systems with MS/Linux  Q operating systems, then there are those who will suffer.  That is a real concern.   M There is nothing cast in concrete that says someone won't wake up and decide  P that VMS has the potential to make some profits, sell some hardware, and retain N customers (from Dell).  The last should be the best, since there isn't really L any other method to fight Dell, and still continue to make a profit.  Intel L really doesn't need another "master distributor" so it might be hard to get 9 pricing and kickbacks from Intel to match what Dell gets.      Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:04:32 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Fortune article and subsequent commentaryB Message-ID: <1107208406.d303c1db262835024e90ba87f7771ce3@teranews>   Bob Koehler wrote:E >    Saying HP has too many operating systems is like saying Goodyear  >    has too many tires.  H The thing about tyres is that they don't require applications to supportH them.  And there are some relative standards for valves, rim sizes etc.   = Tyres are to applications what rims are to operating systems.   E If you make a rim that is non standard and where no tyre manufacturer F makes tyres for that size, then nobody will want your rims, except forE very specialised applications that needs such rims and are willing to  pay for custom made tyres.  B Now, if you may an odd sized rim and market it really well and carH manufacturers start to adopt it, then tyre manufacturers will see market1 potential and start building tyres for that size.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2005 21:46:00 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 6 Subject: Re: Fortune article and subsequent commentary3 Message-ID: <nY8JTgzhGyM6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <41FD2061.40C6872E@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:   > I > Suggestion: Please drop the words "whine", "whiners" and "whining" from E > your vocabulary. These have been over-used to the point where their 2 > impact serves only to dissolve your credibility. > G > 10 years back- that'd be 1994. Since then ... (answers to these below E > the sig. - don't cheat, get the answers then see if you're correct)  > ) >  1. What new platforms does VMS run on?  >   ; 	Itanium.  But VMS isn't alone.  There are a number of OEMs 8 	running a number of OSes on Itanium.   Far more OSes on! 	Itanium than any RISC I know of.   E >  2. ...for total gain of how many platforms currently in commercial 
 > production?    	Don't understand.   > D >  3. What growth in the VMS customer base has been seen since 1994? >   9 	Probably a decline.  But VMS wouldn't be alone.  Compare A 	how badly Solaris has shrunk since 2001.  For a growth platform, > 	compare how many more AIX users and Windows users compared to= 	1994.  I suppose you have a point here, but Solaris has lost B 	customers to Windows and Linux.  VMS has certainly lost customers
 	likewise.  @ >  5. ...for a total growth in applications for VMS of how much? > I > See the answers below the .sig. If you disgaree with any of the correct ? > answers, remember to cite specific evidence in your rebuttal.  >   . 	Boring exercise.  I suppose you have a point.  ; >>         Tell you what, when/if they put the knife in VMS  > + > Already happened. Google for "alphacide".  >   ; 	Alpha != VMS.  One is an architecture, the other is an OS.    >> (and sure - youF >>         have my permission to prattle on about Death of VMS must beP >>         a satisfying thing somehow), you can trot out:  "See Rob , told you!" > = > ...as did most of the VMS customer base. What's your point?  >   B 	VMS isn't exactly dead.  In fact if Mark Gorham and others are toB 	be believed, they've had 4 straight quarters of growth.  I'm sureE 	they will have several other straight quarters of growth.  Any ideas > 	why?  I have them.  But let's see how good a guesser you are!   > F >>         Sure.  And there are whiners somewhere that are still upset2 >>         that RSX is no longer being developed.  > J > Yeah. Probably people who operate sensitive (not necessarily commercial)H > installations on little or no budget, protect millions of lives and/or? > trillions of dollars, ... y'know, nothing of any consequence.  >   > 	Give us a break.  Like the customer you describe doesn't have= 	a very large budget?  They protect trillions of dollars with 4 	little or no budget and are somehow stuck with RSX?   >> I'm sure someone G >>         is very upset that GM knifed the Oldsmobile division too and 1 >>         "that too could have been prevented!"   > 2 > A simple name change would likely have sufficed. >   C 	But it wasn't.  They killed the whole division.  Business decsion, 
 	you know.   >> Its about business and G >>         a ton of armchair quarterbacks always want to make it better C >>         and sure some things are probably done wrong.  Big Deal.  > H > Yeah - who cares about billions in lost profits, billions more in lostG > on-going revenue, not to mention stock prices, dividends, ... y'know, C > all that unimportant econmic mumbo-jumbo that no one cares about.  >   B 	Yeah, but Scotty lives in another world.  Reality sets in though.> 	Sun was an $18 billion dollar company and now they are a $11+C 	billion dollar company.  No wonder their stock price is laughable.   K >>         But today, you can bet there are many reasons to keep developing  >>         VMS , >  > Really? Care to name a few?  >   C 	The profits it generates.  The customers that are depending on it.   + >> But no explaining, no amount of positive I >>         news is going to sway some people.  They've been convinced for . >>         10-15 years now that VMS is dying.  >  > <reality_check> D > You mean, all those lost sites, scrapped VAXes and Alphas, and theI > Windows and Un*X systems that replaced them were just a bad dream???!!!  > : > Say, "HALLELUJAH", Brothers! It's been just a bad dream. > </reality_check> >   B 	And imagine that!  All those lost customers and scrapped hardware3 	and it is still profitable and once again growing.    >> It is truly comical thinking M >>         about how some trot out "Death of VMS" as a mantra year after year  >>         after year.   > I > Yeah. After all, when your profits are half of what they once were, how 5 > that can POSSIBLY be characterized as "dying"???!!!  >   D 	Right, just like any other business that has contracted and returnsB 	to growth.  Solaris isn't growing but it has contracted.  Solaris
 	is dying.   > N > http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=pollyanna&x=17&y=15 > Pronunciation: "p-lE-'a-n&  > Function: nounH > Etymology: Pollyanna, heroine of the novel Pollyanna (1913) by Eleanor* > Porter died 1920 American fiction writerF > : a person characterized by irrepressible optimism and a tendency to1 > find good in everything. See also, "Rob Young".  >   ? 	That would be a mis-characterization.  I don't see much upside ? 	in a number of things.  I don't see much upside in Solaris/Sun , 	(duh).  I don't see much upside in Netware:   http://tinyurl.com/6p2vl   Newsgroups: comp.os.vms  Subject: Netware is no VMS Date: 6 Aug 2003 00:22:48 -0500     ' http://tinyurl.com/4twum  (and others):    Newsgroups: comp.os.vms * From: youn...@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Date: 2000/06/30  O ******************************************************************************* O *                                RIP NetWare                                  * P *******************************************************************************    ---   A 	Besides, as an OS - VMS is doing pretty good compared to others, A 	not nearly as well as more than a few.  But it does meet a need, @ 	and is profitable.  And sure, marketing could probably increase@ 	uptake a few million $$$.  But reality is VMS is in its niches,C 	just like OS/390 is in its niches.  The general purpose OSes today F 	are Windows (desktop and datacenter) and Linux.  Others are decliningA 	and it is apparent that SGI's Irix will be gone shortly.  IBM is D 	pushing AIX, wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if 4 years fromE 	now they sell much more hardware running Linux on Power than they do  	sell AIX on Power.  And so on.    				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2005 12:53:21 -0800 From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com > Subject: How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences?C Message-ID: <1107204801.030759.302020@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    In Unix, I can enter:   0 echo "\033P\$smyterminalemulatorfile.psl \033\\"  D In OpenVMS I have tried many variations with sys$output, but it just7 prints to the screen and nothing happens on the client.  Please help me.  Thank you.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:16:47 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> B Subject: Re: How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences?E Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0501311407410.32138@localhost.localdomain>   4 On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com wrote:   > In Unix, I can enter:  > 2 > echo "\033P\$smyterminalemulatorfile.psl \033\\" > G > In OpenVMS I have tried many variations with sys$output, but it just  F > prints to the screen and nothing happens on the client. Please help  > me.  Thank you.    The equivalent in VMS might be:       $ esc[0,8]=%o33    $ write sys$output - :        "\",esc,"P\$smyterminalemulatorfile.psl \",esc,"\\"  G depending on exactly what it was supposed to do.  My example sends out  F the actual escape character in place of the 033 in your echo command, C and all of the other characters including "\" and a literal dollar  ! sign ("$") exactly as you showed.   E DCL does not automatically translate, on output, octal (or any other  G numeric) byte values to the corresponding ASCII characters.  Hence the  @ express assignment of the octal byte value to the the character  variable "esc".    Hope this helps.   - Rob      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2005 14:53:54 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>B Subject: Re: How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences?C Message-ID: <1107212034.306581.204310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>     john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com wrote: > In Unix, I can enter:  > 2 > echo "\033P\$smyterminalemulatorfile.psl \033\\" > F > In OpenVMS I have tried many variations with sys$output, but it just9 > prints to the screen and nothing happens on the client.  > Please help me.  Thank you.   D What is this supposed to accomplish? What is in the .psl file? The $9 has a very different meaning in VMS than it does in Unix.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:21:28 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> B Subject: Re: How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences?B Message-ID: <1107213022.78e0b665baf7af2d0ac2d62ff8be608e@teranews>    john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com wrote: > In Unix, I can enter:  > 2 > echo "\033P\$smyterminalemulatorfile.psl \033\\"   On VMS you can:    $SAY = "write sys$output"  $ESC[0,8] = %x1B1 $say "''esc'$smyterminalemulatorfile.psl ''esc'\"   F Insude a double quotes string you can have symbol substitution done by, having the symbol name enclosed in ''symbol'   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:43:26 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: Re: Its the applications dummy !!!!, Message-ID: <IOqdnaedjaHrBWPcRVn-ig@igs.net>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: E > In article <1107102878.847286.268780@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,  > bob@instantwhip.com writes: E >> this will only happen if you get VMS out of the hands of a company @ >> that doesn't want to be in the OS business ... it will take a< >> dedicated buyer of VMS to bring back apps and destroy theG >> unix/linux/windoze market with a superior os ... the apps gap can be E >> quickly made up buy purchases or mergers ... one nice one would be E >> with Process Software, where TCPware would nicely replace ucx, and ? >> where pmdf and precisemail would give vms good mail apps ...  > C > Unfortunately although Process now develop and support PMDF it is E > still ,as far as I am aware, owned by SUN (following their purchase  > of the > original owners Innosoft).A > This is one reason why although there are hobbyist licenses for 
 > TCPWARE and   > Multinet there isn't for PMDF.    K Sun might sell a source licence or agree to a royalty arrangement if asked.    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2005 19:37:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)/ Subject: Re: Lets all pitch in and buy OpenVMS!a, Message-ID: <367fnqF4su1muU1@individual.net>  + In article <41FD2FE1.B83FC5AB@comcast.net>,t5 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:s > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: >> t@ >> if all the former DEC employees plus plus users like us wouldF >> all chip in and then the group could secure an investment from someH >> current big users (cerner) and a few big investors, then vms could be9 >> free to destroy the entire windoze/unix/linux market!   > J > VMS doesn't need to "destroy the entire windoze/unix/linux market", IMO.J > Just competing will be enough. The market will pick up the momentum from? > that point forward and the formerly immovable will become then > unstoppable. >  >> Everyone couldtI >> chip in what they could where 1$ would equal 1 share of stock ... I am H >> sure many former employees would even be willing to work for this new$ >> company ... is anyone doing this? > H > The trick is for the smallest investors to have the largest say in theI > operation of the venture. If the largest investors acquire control, VMSyI > may not go where the market needs it to go, rather it will end up goingaJ > where the largest investors want to take it for their own reasons, which5 > may not synergize well with the rest of the market.  > H > Sort of where VMS is now: I'm sure "stealth marketing" is not what VMS@ > management wants, its what they are forced into by (insert the > conspiracy theory du jour).f >   ? Well, this has also been done to death here, but once again, it-0 ignores the most important part of the equation.  C VMS is not for sale.  It is unlikely that the current HP managementw* would sell it rather than just let it die.   bill     -- 2J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:42:09 -0500e# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>d/ Subject: Re: Lets all pitch in and buy OpenVMS!u, Message-ID: <D9qdnapOwcO3BWPcRVn-1Q@igs.net>   Tom Linden wrote:tC > On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:37:57 +0000 (UTC), Phillip Helbig---removed; > CLOTHES to reply <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote:  >d@ >> Let's see...Compaq paid $9 billion for DEC.  Let's say VMS isD >> "worth" 1 billion.  Let's be optimistic and say we can get 10,000= >> volunteers. That's $100,000 each.  I think that a real VMScC >> enthusiast would be able to invest at most, day, $10,000.  So we 3 >> need 100,000 people.  Doesn't seem viable to me.o >gE > Haven't yet seen the numbers for 2004, but based on 2003 numbers, ICE > think the number would have to be much bigger, maybe as much as $8Bn    I HP would have to include the patents and IP rights to all Alpha CPU stuffo; too, just to provide options other than Itanic, AMD, Power.e  J A friend of the family might be interested (his companies are large enoughL and he's already heavily into the tech sector to possibly be interested). OrJ maybe the OpenVMS management team would be interested in a LBO if they hadI cojones. I know the right investment bankers for that sort of transactioni too.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2005 18:11:48 -0800 From: leeroth@my-deja.com/7 Subject: Re: List of DEC boards to be auctioned on EbayiB Message-ID: <1107223908.576037.21320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   K. Marden wrote:2 > Please follow this link to an Excel spreadsheet.? > All items to be auctioned on Ebay over the next month or two.e > All items are untested.h >r	 > thanks,  > Kurt >o2 > http://www.gis.net/~jkmarden/Dec-parts-list1.xls  B Kurt: Go to http://pdf995.com/ and download the free(*) PDF makingA software... use that to post a more readable file for all to use.h  C (*) Free if you don't mind the nag screen in your browser each timen1 you create a PDF. For $9.95, the 'nag' goes away.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:45:19 -0500 0 From: Chuck Harris <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com>7 Subject: Re: List of DEC boards to be auctioned on Ebay , Message-ID: <a8OdnWsxrcvdcGPcRVn-vw@rcn.net>   leeroth@my-deja.com wrote: > K. Marden wrote: > 2 >>Please follow this link to an Excel spreadsheet.? >>All items to be auctioned on Ebay over the next month or two.i >>All items are untested.e >>	 >>thanks,h >>Kurt >>2 >>http://www.gis.net/~jkmarden/Dec-parts-list1.xls >  > D > Kurt: Go to http://pdf995.com/ and download the free(*) PDF makingC > software... use that to post a more readable file for all to use.o > E > (*) Free if you don't mind the nag screen in your browser each time 3 > you create a PDF. For $9.95, the 'nag' goes away.  >   G Or you can get openoffice.org, which will output its excel spreadsheetss0 directly to pdf files.  Free, and no nag screen.   -Chuck   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:51:26 -0600o+ From: "Randy McLaughlin" <randy@nospam.com> 7 Subject: Re: List of DEC boards to be auctioned on Ebayw8 Message-ID: <y%CLd.6119$BQ2.2460@bignews6.bellsouth.net>  > "Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote in message & news:a8OdnWsxrcvdcGPcRVn-vw@rcn.net... > leeroth@my-deja.com wrote: >> K. Marden wrote:o >>3 >>>Please follow this link to an Excel spreadsheet.n@ >>>All items to be auctioned on Ebay over the next month or two. >>>All items are untested. >>>/
 >>>thanks, >>>Kurtp >>>/3 >>>http://www.gis.net/~jkmarden/Dec-parts-list1.xlse >> >>E >> Kurt: Go to http://pdf995.com/ and download the free(*) PDF makingeD >> software... use that to post a more readable file for all to use. >>F >> (*) Free if you don't mind the nag screen in your browser each time4 >> you create a PDF. For $9.95, the 'nag' goes away. >> >iI > Or you can get openoffice.org, which will output its excel spreadsheetst2 > directly to pdf files.  Free, and no nag screen. >e > -Chuck  H Since he already has a real Excel he may prefer getting ghostscript and  print to PDF's.o     Randy    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2005 22:19:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 7 Subject: Re: List of DEC boards to be auctioned on Ebay 3 Message-ID: <$65KVlvHzGGl@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  ^ In article <1107223908.576037.21320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, leeroth@my-deja.com writes:  D > Kurt: Go to http://pdf995.com/ and download the free(*) PDF makingC > software... use that to post a more readable file for all to use.   - Free only if you value your own time at zero.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:34:02 -0500b# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e/ Subject: Moving from Alpha to Integrity Webcastt, Message-ID: <aqudnfD7T9vfC2PcRVn-uQ@igs.net>  F I applaud the webcast and the effort, but I'm disappointed that HP has+ chosen to limit it to *existing* customers.t  K I can partially understand this as the title of the presentation is 'MovingFL from Alpha to Integrity' but given the lack of applications today on Itanic,I most potential VMS customers are likely to be purchasing Alphas over  theo next 18 months./  L  I happen to think that letting them sit in on a webcast like this is a goodG idea so they'll have some idea of what they will be dealing with in thelJ subsequent 24-48 months as their shiny new Alpha's come off-lease and theyD replace them with Itanics or other VMS systems based on other CPU's.        ( ANNOUNCING AN HP CUSTOMER WEBCAST EVENT:2 HP OpenVMS: Moving from Alpha to Integrity Servers  L You are invited to participate in a webcast event on HP OpenVMS: Moving fromD Alpha to Integrity Servers, part of an ongoing educational series of* webcasts aimed at assisting our customers.   PRESENTERS:s. MaryJane Vasquez, BCS OpenVMS Business Manager1 Gaitan D'Antoni, Technical Architect, BCS OpenVMSe  L When: Wednesday, February 16th at 10 am - 12 Noon EST and 7:00 - 9:00 pm EST  + Registration and Agenda information follow:    SESSION OVERVIEW:iL This training will cover the just released, OpenVMS V8.2 including Alpha andF Integrity systems supported by V8.2, licensing, packaging, pricing andJ trade-ins, new features in V8.2 and how to move applications from Alpha to Integrity Servers.  L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----7 Session Agenda (subject to change) 90 minutes in length      OpenVMS V8.2 Announcement   OpenVMS Roadmapsa    Pricing, Licensing, Trade-ins   New Features in OpenVMS V8.2i6   Moving Applications from Alpha to Integrity Servers  1 Open questions and answers (30 minutes in length)$  I Delivery: This session will be delivered via the web using the HP Virtualf= Classroom together with audio teleconferencing via the phone.   J Participants:   This session is a limited registration event for customers only.p  G Registration: Registration is limited for this webcast.  To register or L learn more visit:  <http://www.hpbroadband.com> and enter your email address and the key word:  OpenVMS.m  G Recorded Playback: This webcast will be recorded and made available for L playback subsequent to the live events.  Information on the availability andK access to the recording will be communicated after the live event has taken  placeu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:13:26 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>M3 Subject: Re: Moving from Alpha to Integrity Webcast-B Message-ID: <1107208938.e4ab198d3b2869d666dd94af01f19e41@teranews>   John Smith wrote:fK > Delivery: This session will be delivered via the web using the HP VirtualD? > Classroom together with audio teleconferencing via the phone.h  " What software is needed for this ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:20:48 -0500>, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>3 Subject: Re: Moving from Alpha to Integrity Webcast * Message-ID: <41feb02c@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  < https://www.hpe-learning.com/requirements/default.aspx?tab=1  = [IF this doesn't open then let me know but it's certified for! windows, linux, hp-ux, mac  9 I don't know if anyone has tried OpenVMS Mozilla or not.]>  K I would check but I don't have a meeting with virtual classroom until after  the 16th webinar date.   -warrens  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message< news:1107208938.e4ab198d3b2869d666dd94af01f19e41@teranews... > John Smith wrote:tE > > Delivery: This session will be delivered via the web using the HPo VirtualrA > > Classroom together with audio teleconferencing via the phone.n >T$ > What software is needed for this ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 19:14:31 +0000 # From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com>l Subject: Re: MySQL problem; Message-ID: <1107198881.22531.0@nnrp-t71-02.news.clara.net>h   Ken Robinson wrote:E > issinoho wrote:  > G >>Using GNUTAR on the phpmyadmin tarball produces a top level folder of  >  > thea > E >>following format, PHPMYADMIN-2^.2^.6.DIR which renders (from what I  >  > canr > G >>tell) the folder unusable in VMS. I have to use DFU to get rid of it.  >  > What > 5 >>are those '^' carat symbols and why do they appear?7 >  > E > That is a perfectly good directory on an ODS-5 disk. Make sure your H > process is set to EXTENDED parsing by entering "set proc/parse=extend"0 > before trying to use it. DO NOT GET RID OF IT. > I > The carets are escape characters and tell DCL that the dots are part of D > the file name and do not seperate the filename from the extension. >  > Ken  >    *sees light*  , Thanks. ODS-5 is still a new concept for me.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2005 12:12:28 -0800) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com>t Subject: Re: MySQL problemC Message-ID: <1107202348.499137.120090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>d   issinoho wrote:b >  > *sees light* >i. > Thanks. ODS-5 is still a new concept for me.  D ODS-5 takes some getting used to from DCL, but it makes using thingsB like bash under GNV very easy if you already know bash under UNIX.  B BTW, I just downloaded (as phpMyadmin-2.6.1.tar.gz) and got to run$ phpMyadmin 2.6.1. Here's what I did: $ bash   !DCL Prompt bash$   #bash prompt. bash$ gunzip ../downloads/phpMyAdmin-2.6.1.tar# bash$ tar -xvf phpMyAdmin-2.6.1.tar 
 bash$ exit $ !back to DCL   I had a few minor problems:lF 1) for some reason the MySQL I have installed didn't like the languageG UTF-8.  I removed all references I could find from the source files and> the config file.F 2) One function came up as undefined even though it was in the includeE file. I commented the function call out and, so far, everything seemsf to be working fine.p   Ken    ------------------------------   Date: 31 JAN 2005 15:06:34 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: MySQL problem6 Message-ID: <31JAN05.15063494@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  0 In a previous article, "John E. Malmberg" wrote: ->David J Dachtera wrote:q ->> 7 ->> VMS support for free-form filenames requires ODS-5.a ->> J ->> ZIP/UNZIP support for free-form filenames requires newer versions than' ->> are currently common "in the wild".a -> oJ ->Is there something wrong with the versions included with the latest GNV?  > Zip does not appear to be able to recurse directories. In this? example (on an ODS-5 volume with extended parse style enabled),tE subdirectory "test" contains two files and another subdirectory "sub"n which contains one file:   $ bash bash$ ls -R test test:t) Test-File-One.txt  Test-File-Two.txt  subo  	 test/sub:> Test-File-Three.txt> bash$ zip -r test.zip test+         zip warning: name not matched: testn  > zip error: Nothing to do! (try: zip "-r" test.zip *.* -i test)# bash$ zip "-r" test.zip *.* -i teste  7 zip error: Nothing to do! (SCRATCH0:[KARCHER]TEST.ZIP;)u  G On a linux system the first zip command zips up all the files under thes( temp subdirectory (the desired outcome).   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisonm8 --                 karcher.nomoresp6m@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:41:46 -0600 (CST)l* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: MySQL problem2 Message-ID: <05013118414652_27000276@antinode.org>  4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)  	 > > [...].  @ > Zip does not appear to be able to recurse directories. In thisA > example (on an ODS-5 volume with extended parse style enabled),nG > subdirectory "test" contains two files and another subdirectory "sub"h > which contains one file:   > [...]    > test/sub:  > Test-File-Three.txte > bash$ zip -r test.zip test- >         zip warning: name not matched: test  > @ > zip error: Nothing to do! (try: zip "-r" test.zip *.* -i test)% > bash$ zip "-r" test.zip *.* -i test  > 9 > zip error: Nothing to do! (SCRATCH0:[KARCHER]TEST.ZIP;)  > I > On a linux system the first zip command zips up all the files under thew* > temp subdirectory (the desired outcome).  B    Sadly (for UNIX fans), on VMS the directory name is not "test",+ rather "TEST.DIR;1" (or something similar).s  G    No bets, but you might get a more satisfactory result from a commande like:n          zip "-r" test.zip test.dir  E    Note that it's possible (even easy) on VMS to have a non-directorye@ file file named "test" and a directory named "test.dir", so someD complications are hard to avoid in this region.  ODS2 and ODS5 don't differ much in this.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orge    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2005 19:05:20 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMSB Message-ID: <1107226648.263242.38570@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  
 AEF wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: > > AEF wrote: > >i > > G > > > Just how bad are things for those who got "snookered" into buyinguG > > > Alphas. Are they really in big, big trouble? I agree it was a bada > thingiE > > > for HP to have stopped growing Alphas. But it is not the end of> thet@ > > > world for those who have Alphas. They can keep running the Alphas.p > TheyD > > > can buy Integritys. OK, they're not the ideal that should haveE > > > happened. OK, maybe they're not as fast as HP claims it is. Bute > don'tiE > > > they still benefit greatly simply by still being on VMS instead  of > someE > > > inferior OS? Saying no would be saying that VMS isn't that much6 > betterF > > > than the others. Are you going to tell me that Alpha users would beD > > > better off switching to another OS? You want hp to promote VMS yet C > > > Bill, at least, wants to warn people to stay away, hoping foro someF > > > polly anna thing to fall from the sky and save the day. You have to > beD > > > realistic. And isn't that contradictory? Wanting hp to promote VMSr9 > > > while warning against the dire danger of buying it?> > >r > > F > > There is not black and white.  People are all over the spectrum on > these issues.o > >rD > > As for Alpha.  That decision was as bad as could be.  The people > making itlD > > basically were telling customers (except I doubt they considered > customers) "Up? > > yours, we don't care about your concerns, we're going to do  whatever > we want to/ > > do, and we don't care what it does to you."r >  > OK. That is very bad.e > D > > You may ask why.  The main reason was the costs they would force > customers toG > > incur.  For many the cost may not be such a big thing.  Re-compile,W > link, andlB > > go.  Great.  But what about customers that may have to perform > extensive G > > conformance testing of their entire environment.  The cost of doinge > this in someA > > cases could be in the millions of dollars.  (You maybe want ar glitch > in the yea? > > or ney on the firing off of a salvo of missles with nuclear  > warheads?)  Not0D > > saying that example is of concern, but it certainly demonstrates that > someG > > environments do require extensive and expensive validation testing.T
 > Think about D > > being in a hospital Intensive Care Unit, and the computer system > that's helpingG > > keep you alive.  Other issues can arise, such as code that does not 
 > work on thet> > > itanic without some amount of re-working.  And validation. >p > OK.e  C But, Alphas can still be had even now, 3.5 yrs. later. The road map F says thru at least 2006 (OK, that can't be taken for granted). SupportD to at least 2011 (same quals). So assuming the 2006/2011 dates to beA good, any Alphas bought prior to the Alphacide can still be used,eC upgraded, what have you thru 2006. So that's at least 5 yrs on yourfD pre-Alphacide Alphas. Is that the end of the world? Hey, I'm running MicroVAX systems!   @ But I'm still confused on the current Alpha situation. If it wasA killed, why are they still available? Are any currently availabletC Alphas better than the best that was available before Jun 25, 2001? C What about Samsung? Why don't they make any? If hp would change its B mind and decide to resurrect Alpha, what are the obstacles, legal,G techincal, or otherwise? And what about the Alpha Retain Trust program? C >From what I read on the Web site it says that hp will support youriF Alphas, getting more Alphas, getting Ingrities, and moving from one to5 another via mixed clusters. What's the story? Thanks.a  D (I asked this before in this thread but got no answer -- see below.)  B As regards VMS and Integrites, I hope that hp sees VMS as a way to@ promote sales of Integrities (and maybe Alphas?) so that they'llD promote VMS itself, though not for the reasons we think they should!   > D > > There are additional reasons why the decision was bad.  Lying to > customers rankstG > > high on the list.  But enough about the Alpha decision.  My feelingn
 > is that the  >eC > I've never seen, heard, or read any good advice about how to deal  with > those who lie. > C > > longer Alphas are produced and sold, the better off we all are.k >r > I'm all for more Alphas. >s@ > > As for the rest.  Time will tell what Intel will do with the itanic.:
 > It couldF > > still be what they originaly wanted it to be, a good commodity CPU > used by many.uF > >   Their track record to date isn't very good.  Add to that the AMD
 > threat, andoC > > the itanic just might not be important to Intel.  At least withk Alphag > the ownersG > > of VMS had control of whether CPUs that run VMS would be available.e > >iE > > Me, I hope it works out.  I don't want to endure the alternative.l >, [...]z >eB > Just exactly what is the Alpha situation? Is hp legally bound byD > contract with Intel to not make any more Alphas should they changeE > their mind? What about Samsung making Alphas? Can we encourage theme to > do so? >  > thanks for your answerse   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:46:49 -0500 , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>? Subject: Re: OpenVMS What's New - January Announcements Updateds, Message-ID: <41fe9a24$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  	 Try againa    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message< news:1106990165.38be3eb1267fb5f084d35bb8b6e28edf@teranews... > warren sander wrote: > >aL > > I've just created a PDF with the speaker notes. It will be out about 2AM > > Eastern time.D >1F > There is a openvms_roadmaps_notes.pdf .... but that document doesn'tJ > seem to be different from the openvms_roadmaps.pdf and when I open it, I) > don't see any notes. Both are 49 pages.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:02:38 -0500u, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>? Subject: Re: OpenVMS What's New - January Announcements Updatedt, Message-ID: <41fe9dda$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  C what you are pointing out is that the authors don't know how to use  powerpoint etc. The wordseK do flow outside the colored boxes. On both pages. The pdf's do have all the  fonts embedded in themF [so they will be in the .ps files also]. But I can't do much about the Powerpoint itself. HP requiredK that Futura font be used for many things. I can't supply you with that fontb unfortunately.  K I have resaved the ppt file and clicked off to embed truetype fonts and nowd it's over 25MBK so the question for you all is this: will you 1) download and 2) use a 25MBa ppt file of the roadmapsK I really don't want to shove that out there and have to do it every time ifs there isn't anyone who willa> really use it for something. Not just busy work for warren....   -warrenp  @ "Michael Unger" <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message& news:361tjtF4sv56dU1@individual.net...- > On 2005-01-28 23:33, "warren sander" wrote:c >n	 > > [...]t > > L > > I thought all the fonts were supposed to be embedded. IF there is a page > > where the pdf doesn'tiH > > have all the stuff that the ppt has please let me know what page -- # > > warren.sander@removethis.hp.com  > > J > > since I have all the font's on my system it's sometimes hard to figure outu* > > what isn't getting embedded if someone > > uses some weird font.  > >o	 > > [...]o > J > "The Road to Itanium" (page 9 of the PDF) is rather "weird" (overlapping5 > text, text outside of the coloured boxes) again ;-(h >a > It appears to me that: -I > - HP's "corporate" font is "Futura" ("Book", "Light", "Heavy", "Medium"e7 > and "Bold" variants as well as "Italic" are embedded)yH > - page 9 looks fine with PowerPoint on a system *without* the "Futura"H > fonts available, i.e., that font family gets replaced with Microsoft's* > "standard" non-serif font family "Arial"F > - obviously the editing of that page is done on a system without theG > "Futura" font family while the conversion to PDF is done on a systemen > with these fonts available > J > A similar problem seems to exist on page 41 with the "RTR V4.2 ..." text > box. >s	 > Michael' >a > -- v= > Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.t7 > My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.m >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 16:14:08 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>e? Subject: Re: OpenVMS What's New - January Announcements Updated.2 Message-ID: <41FEADB0.7060006@applied-synergy.com>   warren sander wrote:  E > what you are pointing out is that the authors don't know how to useq > powerpoint etc. The wordskM > do flow outside the colored boxes. On both pages. The pdf's do have all thel > fonts embedded in themH > [so they will be in the .ps files also]. But I can't do much about the  > Powerpoint itself. HP requiredM > that Futura font be used for many things. I can't supply you with that fontr > unfortunately. > M > I have resaved the ppt file and clicked off to embed truetype fonts and now  > it's over 25MBM > so the question for you all is this: will you 1) download and 2) use a 25MBr > ppt file of the roadmapsM > I really don't want to shove that out there and have to do it every time if  > there isn't anyone who will @ > really use it for something. Not just busy work for warren....  3 Will the PPT file ZIP down to something reasonable?n   -- sG -----------------------------------------------------------------------n$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:16:15 -0500s, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>? Subject: Re: OpenVMS What's New - January Announcements Updated , Message-ID: <41feaf1a$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   about 24MB..  J If I just embed the 'letters' used out of the font's it's only about 6.8MB (up from 5.8) but>H that really only lets you see what's been written. You can't use letters that haven't beenr
 embedded..   -warrenf    < "Chris Scheers" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message, news:41FEADB0.7060006@applied-synergy.com... > warren sander wrote: >tG > > what you are pointing out is that the authors don't know how to usel > > powerpoint etc. The wordsoK > > do flow outside the colored boxes. On both pages. The pdf's do have all? theD > > fonts embedded in themJ > > [so they will be in the .ps files also]. But I can't do much about the" > > Powerpoint itself. HP requiredJ > > that Futura font be used for many things. I can't supply you with that font > > unfortunately. > >pK > > I have resaved the ppt file and clicked off to embed truetype fonts and  now  > > it's over 25MBJ > > so the question for you all is this: will you 1) download and 2) use a 25MB > > ppt file of the roadmapsL > > I really don't want to shove that out there and have to do it every time if > > there isn't anyone who willaB > > really use it for something. Not just busy work for warren.... >45 > Will the PPT file ZIP down to something reasonable?  >n > -- nI > -----------------------------------------------------------------------*& > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. >*D > Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com >    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:29:32 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>r? Subject: Re: OpenVMS What's New - January Announcements UpdatedaB Message-ID: <1107209904.24f90860b046b8a016284830b77fce33@teranews>   warren sander wrote: >  > Try again   D Thanks,. The roadmap with speaker notes does now include the speakerH notes. As a suggestion for next time, you might want to just produce theP speaker notes by themselves without the need to show the slides in the document.  ; The speaker notes are far more informative than the slides.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 19:28:17 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>I# Subject: Suggestion for VAX VMS 8.2 B Message-ID: <1107217022.50aacac70f6c860c0b438b0becd7213c@teranews>  K Since 8.2 might be the last version of VAX VMS, I came to think about it...h  C I would suggest that when VMS engineers generate that version, theyoC should predefine many platforms which may (or may not) be part of alG cluster in the future. For instance, add the codes for the 8086, Sparc,s1 Power and a couple of "unknown1" "unknown2" etc. t  D This way, command procedures that may make assumptions in the future- would still work when moved to a VAX machine.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 22:23:18 -0500 % From: Howard Shubs <howard@shubs.net>n# Subject: Re: VAX 4000 m500A problem3; Message-ID: <howard-55A286.22231831012005@news.newsguy.com>   8 In article <vtusv0lackoja5lts3dnvgu3ni659esmbg@4ax.com>,8  Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSW.Invalid> wrote:   > [xpost to pdp11/vax groups]y  I Not a bad idea.  I pulled a few groups that don't exist on my server, or g= which don't seem terribly related.  It's a VAX, not a PDP-11.   D I've just plugged the system in.  There's a DSSI disk in there just & BEGGING to be yanked!  Too damn noisy.   -- e Nobody knows Particle Man.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.063 ************************ter in place of the 033 in your echo command, C and all of the other characters including "\" anng).  I want to be able to
connect two instances of it over the internet, a server which creates the
piles of cards and a client that consumes them.  I know that I could have a
person using the client type in the IP address of the server or it's name,
or whatever, but that's a pain.  I would like the instances to be able to
connect using Microsoft Messenger (i.e. the players find each other on their
"buddy lists" and click "play cards" or somesuch).  Is it possible to use
Messenger in this way?  If it is... how do I do it?  If it is not...does
anyone have any better ideas?  I want people who know nothing much about
computers or ip address or anything to be able to use this.

Thanks,
Jef


^~00000998:0000005029:042807:From: "Santana" <Wilebaldo Santana@hotmail.com>
Subject: ComboBox
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:53:40 -0700
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tabu La Raza wrote:

>"David E. Latane" <dlatane@mail1.vcu.edu> wrote in message
>news:Pine.SGI.4.33.0302021605010.1627561-100000@neptune.vcu.edu...
>  
>
>>On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, tabu La Raza wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I was just reading the screenplay for the Matrix
>>>      
>>>
>>That just about perfectly defines "hard up for something to read"!
>>
>>D. Latane
>>
>>    
>>
>You mean next to your pointless replies and inane quips?
>
>
>  
>
I suppose I could be a bit more ponderous and say that reading the 
screenplay of a vacuous Hollywood flick that achieved whatever meaning 
it had solely through visual effects strikes me as a bit of an odd thing 
to do. Sort of like appreciating food by reading a cookbook.  I do 
remember a bit of adolescent blether before I stopped the video, and it 
appears that the screenwriters had probably picked up their brand of 
blether in art school as they plagiarized Baudrillard.

D. Latane

^~00001451:0000096330:036234:From: jsn@concentric.net (John S. Novak, III)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan
Subject: Re: Residue, what's the deal (very minor spoilers)
Date: 3 Feb 2003 03:58:47 GMT
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