0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 02 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 65      Contents: %DCL-W-OKTAB again...  Re: %DCL-W-OKTAB again...  Re: %DCL-W-OKTAB again...  Re: %DCL-W-OKTAB again... 3 Re: A few Apache CSWS questions: htaccess, php_info  boot manager by ASM 8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA& Re: equiv of LIB$GET_FOREIGN from DCL?& Re: equiv of LIB$GET_FOREIGN from DCL? Re: File Transfer Options  Re: File Transfer Options  Re: File Transfer Options < HELP!!:  Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages...@ Re: HELP!!:  Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages...@ Re: HELP!!:  Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages...@ Re: HELP!!:  Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages...@ Re: HELP!!:  Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages...? Re: HELP!!: Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages... 9 Re: How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences?  J F on the Joys of Circumcision . Re: List of DEC boards to be auctioned on Ebay Re: MySQL problem  Re: MySQL problem  Re: MySQL problem  Re: MySQL problem  Re: MySQL problem 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS  Re: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  RE: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  RE: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  RE: Official Logo  RE: Official Logo  RE: Official Logo  RE: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo , RE: Official Logo (Should be: Dilbert's tie)? Re: Replacement for NotePad or Text editor for Windows machines ? RE: Replacement for NotePad or Text editor for Windows machines ? Re: Replacement for NotePad or Text editor for Windows machines  Re: Suggestion for VAX VMS 8.2 Re: Suggestion for VAX VMS 8.2 Re: VAX 4000 m500A problem Re: VAX 4000 m500A problem Re: VAX 4000 m500A problem" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3, ~Jfmezei, is your foreskin comfortable now?~  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 22:23:39 +0000 (UTC)< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: %DCL-W-OKTAB again...) Message-ID: <ctovhb$86s$1@news.BelWue.DE>    Hello,  L on Monday I opened a case with HP here in Germany. Since then no explanation; about this rare/unusual/unexpected error code: %DCL-W-OKTAB J Is there really noone around here that could tell me what could cause this= error or what it actually means? I mean, a bit more than just 1    "command tables are already in latest format".    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 22:46:10 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: %DCL-W-OKTAB again...3 Message-ID: <1unLCJzx$fVH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <ctovhb$86s$1@news.BelWue.DE>, gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes: > Hello, > N > on Monday I opened a case with HP here in Germany. Since then no explanation= > about this rare/unusual/unexpected error code: %DCL-W-OKTAB L > Is there really noone around here that could tell me what could cause this? > error or what it actually means? I mean, a bit more than just 3 >    "command tables are already in latest format".   C As I said, it _probably_ means "the program you ran just returned a B random binary number", but it is hard to say until you do the work to find out what program it is.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 06:14:05 +0000 7 From: David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> " Subject: Re: %DCL-W-OKTAB again...* Message-ID: <42006FAD.2070207@bigpond.com>  % Larry Kilgallen mentioned in passing: j > In article <ctovhb$86s$1@news.BelWue.DE>, gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes: >  >>Hello, >>N >>on Monday I opened a case with HP here in Germany. Since then no explanation= >>about this rare/unusual/unexpected error code: %DCL-W-OKTAB L >>Is there really noone around here that could tell me what could cause this? >>error or what it actually means? I mean, a bit more than just 3 >>   "command tables are already in latest format".  >  > E > As I said, it _probably_ means "the program you ran just returned a D > random binary number", but it is hard to say until you do the work! > to find out what program it is.   <  From the source listings... the value for the OKTAB message( is 261141 which results in the following  # tardis_FTA77> say f$message(261441) 9 %CLI-S-OKTAB, command tables are already in latest format   ; Since you are getting %DCL-W-OKTAB rather that %CLI-S-OKTAB $ would further support Larry's claim.  # tardis_FTA77> say f$message(261440) 9 %CLI-W-OKTAB, command tables are already in latest format      Regards, Dave --  B David B Sneddon (dbs) VMS Systems Programmer dbsneddon@bigpond.comB Sneddo's quick guide ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/B DBS freeware   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 06:42:38 +0000 7 From: David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> " Subject: Re: %DCL-W-OKTAB again...* Message-ID: <4200765E.1040304@bigpond.com>  % David B Sneddon mentioned in passing:  > = > Since you are getting %DCL-W-OKTAB rather that %CLI-S-OKTAB & > would further support Larry's claim.   Just to clarify... I hope   # tardis_FTA49> say f$message(261440) 9 %CLI-W-OKTAB, command tables are already in latest format    tardis_FTA49> exit 261440 9 %DCL-W-OKTAB, command tables are already in latest format   : So whatever is doing it is exiting with a value of 261440.   Regards, Dave --  B David B Sneddon (dbs) VMS Systems Programmer dbsneddon@bigpond.comB Sneddo's quick guide ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/B DBS freeware   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 12:11:44 -0800 ) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> < Subject: Re: A few Apache CSWS questions: htaccess, php_infoB Message-ID: <1107288704.606668.44100@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  # mcbill20@yahoo.com wrote (in part):  > C > The AuthUserOpenVMS was another experiment to try another method.  > D > The problme is that CSWS never even tries to access these files. I can G > browse to any file in the apache$root[htdocs] tree or the php tree or A > the user directories, but it never checks for a password. I put = > security alarm ACL's on the .htaccess files and also on the 5 > passwords.dat file but the files never get touched.   B I just tried using the AuthOpenVMSUser method. I put the followingE lines in the file ".htaccess" that resides in the directory I want to  protect.   AuthType Basic! AuthName "OpenVMS authentication"  AuthOpenVMSUser On require valid-user  ? When I tried to access a web page there, I got the Please enter 
 Username box.   ) See section 4.4 of the Installation guide K <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_install_20.pdf>  Ken    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 15:01:28 -0800 9 From: "HAssAN.Maleki@gmail.com" <HAssAN.Maleki@gmail.com>  Subject: boot manager by ASMB Message-ID: <1107298888.939338.56380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  E just wanna know which steps should I proceed 2 boot a system w/ multy  OSes installed on.+ Actually wanna write a multy booter by ASM. 5 Any body have any inf 'bout it or know any resource?!  TNX so much & byE.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 14:03:12 -0500 % From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA + Message-ID: <ctojpg$a2b$1@panix2.panix.com>   5 Rich Alderson  <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote: + >John Hudak <jhudak@sei.cmu.edu> top-posts:  > = >[ moved for the sake of people who know how to read Usenet ]  >  >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:  > E >>>  In article <41f237b0$0$821$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>, 8 >>>  	Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes: > $ >>>> MoS | Museum of Science, Boston >>>> http://www.tcm.org/ > M >>> Isn't this the place that trashed all their real computer stuff including M >>> stuff that had been donated by people like Dennis Ritchie?  I sure didn't ; >>> see anything vintage computer related on thier website.  > 	 >>>  bill  > P >> Hmmm, I didn't think they *trashed* their stuff...My understanding is that itN >> was moved to the west coast and only a subset of the stuff was displayed... > M >Much stuff was destroyed--for example, the Stanford PDP-6 which was given to N >them following the 20 Anniversary celebration at the 1984 DECUS Fall SymposiaJ >seems to have disappeared completely.  The Computer History Museum is theP >result of rescuing as much as possible from their junk heap, and moving on from >there.   M When I went to the Boston Computer Museum, a couple years before they closed, H there was really no DEC stuff on display.  There was a LINC-8 there, andI I think there was a front panel torn off of a Decsystem-10, but there was  really nothing else.  J In fact, there really weren't -any- interesting old machines there.  ThereI was an empty Univac I case that clearly had nothing inside, and some fake K blinky lights on the console.  There was a 360/50 with a couple DASD units, G but the channel controller that went between them was missing and there ; was no reader/punch so it wouldn't have been useful anyway.   L For the most part, none of their displays were complete functioning systems.D They had a whole rack of 1970s microcomputers all in a case, with noD information about what made them different from any of the others.    G They did have one of the IMP machines for the early Arpanet, but it was J behind glass and turned to its side so the front wasn't visible, and thereL was no information at all about what it actually was.  This was probably theI most historically significant piece of gear they had, and it was not even + on official display as far as I could tell.   O It was really quite shameful.  I don't know if they had any additional hardware L in storage or what, but really I had more interesting historical hardware in: my machine room at the time I visited in the mid-nineties. --scott    --  6 "C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 18:34:57 -0500 $ From: Mike Ross <mike@corestore.org>A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA B Message-ID: <1107300644.e57a948eaeee680e367910d71472bcb9@teranews>  D On 1 Feb 2005 14:03:12 -0500, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:  - >There was a 360/50 with a couple DASD units, H >but the channel controller that went between them was missing and there< >was no reader/punch so it wouldn't have been useful anyway.  C I'm curious - does anyone know what became of that particular item? E I've been looking for a 360 for some time, and I have, or have a line 5 on, the missing items that would make it functional.    + I also have the 360/50 engineering docs :-)    Mike --   http://www.corestore.orgt "All I know is that I'm being sued for unfair business practices by Microsoft. Hello pot? It's kettle on line two" - Michael Robertson    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2005 01:48:03 GMT ! From: Lee Witten <lw99@yahoo.com> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA / Message-ID: <Xns95F0D39858BF2nn48@199.125.85.9>   ( kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in$ news:ctojpg$a2b$1@panix2.panix.com: G > When I went to the Boston Computer Museum, a couple years before they G > closed, there was really no DEC stuff on display.  There was a LINC-8 H > there, and I think there was a front panel torn off of a Decsystem-10,$ > but there was really nothing else. > F > In fact, there really weren't -any- interesting old machines there. G > There was an empty Univac I case that clearly had nothing inside, and D > some fake blinky lights on the console.  There was a 360/50 with aF > couple DASD units, but the channel controller that went between themD > was missing and there was no reader/punch so it wouldn't have been > useful anyway.   > E > For the most part, none of their displays were complete functioning G > systems. They had a whole rack of 1970s microcomputers all in a case, D > with no information about what made them different from any of the > others.     J I remember going in the mid to late 80s and thinking the place was pretty L cool.  I remember Illiac, and pieces of vacumm tube computers (think it may G have been an IBM 70x but not sure), the Stretch computer, a large drum  F memory, with a floppy tacked on the side of it, and a sign saying the / floppy had more storage capacity than the drum.   I Also they had a DECtalk speech synthesizer with a vt100 hooked up to it,  K and you could type in a sentence and it would try to speak it.  Of course,  K I tried to get it to say naughty things to embarass the friends I was with.   E > They did have one of the IMP machines for the early Arpanet, but it F > was behind glass and turned to its side so the front wasn't visible,G > and there was no information at all about what it actually was.  This H > was probably the most historically significant piece of gear they had,A > and it was not even on official display as far as I could tell.   L Sadly, at the time, I would not even have known what the IMPs looked like.  ; I had some uucp access, but no Internet access at the time.   H > It was really quite shameful.  I don't know if they had any additional@ > hardware in storage or what, but really I had more interestingE > historical hardware in my machine room at the time I visited in the  > mid-nineties. --scott   J In its last days it tried to cater to the generation who grew up with PCs G as opposed to the generation who may have encountered a mainframe or a  ; mini.  Also they tried to appeal to youth more than adults.   L As for cool museums, IBM used to have one for employees inside its plant at D Kingston, NY.  I remember it had a full 360 console (not a panel, a K console, with blinkenlights and toggles for all the bits), and it had lots  I of parts from SAGE, the early warning defense computer.  They had a SAGE  K console (complete with "light pen"), and some core memory arrays, and some  M vaccum tube racks.  Kingston was the assembly plant for the SAGE computers.   L The main assembly hall could hold three SAGE computers in various states of J assembly, and was being used to hold dozens of 3090 mainframes when I saw I it.  Also they had an IBM Rifle!  IBM Kingston was assigned rifle making  5 duties during World War II, and thus the IBM Rifle.     K I wondered what happened to all the stuff in that museum.  IBM Kingston is  G now closed.  I had heard big parts of it were going to be used for the  I State of NY information services, but there was a lot of politics behind  L the move and I'm not sure what ended up happening to the site in general or  the museum in particular.    --lw--   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 20:35:34 +0000 (UTC)- From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) / Subject: Re: equiv of LIB$GET_FOREIGN from DCL? . Message-ID: <ctop6m$jpe$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <hein@Hewlett-Packard.com> writes in article <41fd082f$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com> dated Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:11:55 -0500: > ; >"Keith A. Lewis" <klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG> wrote in message ) >news:cth0ie$n0t$1@newslocal.mitre.org...  > L >> SYS$COMMON, which is not what I want.  I want the procedure to be able to. >> tell the difference between the user typing! >>     @SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]MYDCL  >> and  >>     @SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]MYDCL > ; >And you probably also want to recognize @SYS$MANAGER:MYDCL > >One (the only?) HACK to get this is to use the recall buffer.   Aha!  I hadn't thought of that.    $ recall /out=temp.tmp $ open x temp.tmp /read  ..etc.  E Unfortunately the RECALL command doesn't seem to work from a script.  I Another detail I hadn't mentioned before is that I'm using an RSH command % from Unix to invoke the DCL script.     K For those who were curious, the reason for all this is that our development F is based on searchlists.  That avoids duplication of code which hasn'tH changed, and it propagates low-level bug fixes through to the high-level new-feature versions quickly.     G This procedure needs to run other programs, but which version?  If it's L invoked from the bottom level it should run the bottom-level versions of the related software and so on.     M >I've seen DCL-only scripts to obtained that data through poking in P1 memory  >space.   ! I don't think I'm that desperate.   M >> The current workaround is to have identical copies of the procedure at all K >> points on the searchlist, but I'd rather not have to remember to copy it   >> every time I add to the list.  L I think I will stay with that workaround.  The other obvious one would be toJ repeat the device name in the parameter list, but that would be redundant,5 and some Unix person would no-doubt screw it up.  :^)   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:14:48 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: equiv of LIB$GET_FOREIGN from DCL? B Message-ID: <1107291815.e9862d0b84050b79195cf6588a286171@teranews>   "Keith A. Lewis" wrote: M > For those who were curious, the reason for all this is that our development H > is based on searchlists.  That avoids duplication of code which hasn'tJ > changed, and it propagates low-level bug fixes through to the high-level > new-feature versions quickly.   G Perhaps you could write a script that edits each .COM file and adds two  lines at/near the top:   $CALLING_FILE = CALLED_FILE ( $CALLED_FILE == F$ENVIRONMENT(PROCEDURE)  F This way, within this procedure, you know who called you by looking atF the CALLING_FILE symbol, and if you invoke any command procedure, they will know who you are.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:55:08 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> " Subject: Re: File Transfer Options' Message-ID: <41FFFABC.5060903@MMaz.com>    Donald Plugge wrote:  G >I'm attempting to remove data from an old VAX/VMS system to help out a G >researcher on our campus.  I'm quite familar with OpenVMS, but not his J >system.  He uses the GCG analysis package and other than that most of the >files are person data files.  > J >I have a copy of GZIP by Klaus Reimann and it builds fine on this system.? >However, it crashes on a few of the files I'm trying to ZIP.    > = Older versions of zip would crash if the size exceeded 2GB...    Barry    --    < Barry Treahy, Jr                     E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com< Midwest Microwave, Inc.                  Phone: 480/314-1320< Vice President & CIO                      FAX:  480/661-7028  I                        ... but it's a DRY HEAT!                              ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:20:32 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: File Transfer Options, Message-ID: <420000B0.1090109@tsoft-inc.com>   Donald Plugge wrote:  H > I'm attempting to remove data from an old VAX/VMS system to help out aH > researcher on our campus.  I'm quite familar with OpenVMS, but not hisK > system.  He uses the GCG analysis package and other than that most of the  > files are person data files. > K > I have a copy of GZIP by Klaus Reimann and it builds fine on this system. M > However, it crashes on a few of the files I'm trying to ZIP.  I thought was L > to ZIP all the user directories separately, then FTP them off to a WindowsM > machine and they could do as they like with them.  What would best the most M > robust and cross platform solution (GZIP, VMSTAR...)?  I'd like the utility L > to skip any files it can't ZIP, rather than simly crashing.  Perhaps thereE > is a switch that I'm not using for GZIP.  Or perhaps I should use a , > different Freeware package.  Any thoughts? >  > Sincerely, >  >   P Much depends upon the format of the files.  If they're text, then they might be D useful on the target platform.  Otherwise, they're probably useless.  $ As for the transfer, FTP works fine.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:23:48 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: File Transfer Options+ Message-ID: <420047C4.F94C804C@comcast.net>    Donald Plugge wrote: > H > I'm attempting to remove data from an old VAX/VMS system to help out aH > researcher on our campus.  I'm quite familar with OpenVMS, but not hisK > system.  He uses the GCG analysis package and other than that most of the  > files are person data files. > K > I have a copy of GZIP by Klaus Reimann and it builds fine on this system. M > However, it crashes on a few of the files I'm trying to ZIP.  I thought was L > to ZIP all the user directories separately, then FTP them off to a WindowsM > machine and they could do as they like with them.  What would best the most M > robust and cross platform solution (GZIP, VMSTAR...)?  I'd like the utility L > to skip any files it can't ZIP, rather than simly crashing.  Perhaps thereE > is a switch that I'm not using for GZIP.  Or perhaps I should use a , > different Freeware package.  Any thoughts?  B ZIP and GZIP are two separate animals. It's hard to tell which one you're actually using.  G Earlier versions (of both?) can be expected to have problems with files E greater than 2GB in size, or input/output archives grater than 2GB in  size.   4 How could the utility detect files it can't process?  H See this page for links to info. on ZIP for VMS. You'll find (old) info.G on GZIP on VMS also, but you'll have to chase a few other links to find  it: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 18:30:22 GMT 1 From: Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> E Subject: HELP!!:  Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages... 7 Message-ID: <2VPLd.79835$re1.68603@fe2.columbus.rr.com>   8 I'm moving from OSU HTTPD to Apache v2.0 for OpenVMS and9 I have problem getting user's WWW pages to work properly.   : The user's WWW pages are of course in the [.WWW] directory= under the user's home directory and I've changed "UserDir" to + "www" and that didn't seem to do the trick.   @ I played around a bit with <Directory> specifications, but can't seem to make it work.   ; I've set an ACL like I did for the OSU HTTPD server for the 7 user's WWW directory, but I still get an error about no  permissions.  6 Any help would be appreciated as I'm new to Apache. :)   ------------------------------   Date: 1 FEB 2005 13:13:43 GMT 4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)I Subject: Re: HELP!!:  Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages... 5 Message-ID: <1FEB05.13134343@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   . In a previous article, Robert Alan Byer wrote:: ->I'm moving from OSU HTTPD to Apache v2.0 for OpenVMS and; ->I have problem getting user's WWW pages to work properly.  ->  < ->The user's WWW pages are of course in the [.WWW] directory? ->under the user's home directory and I've changed "UserDir" to - ->"www" and that didn't seem to do the trick.  ->  B ->I played around a bit with <Directory> specifications, but can't ->seem to make it work.  ->  = ->I've set an ACL like I did for the OSU HTTPD server for the 9 ->user's WWW directory, but I still get an error about no  ->permissions.  D Note that you need READ access on all directories in the path to theE WWW directory. With OSU, you could get a way with only EXECUTE on the  intermediate directories.   H BTW: thanks for your excellent documentation on setting up OSU with SSL.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 8 --                 karcher.nomorespxm@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 23:57:26 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)I Subject: Re: HELP!!:  Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages... 6 Message-ID: <00A3EBFF.301E7BDF@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  k In article <2VPLd.79835$re1.68603@fe2.columbus.rr.com>, Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> writes: 9 >I'm moving from OSU HTTPD to Apache v2.0 for OpenVMS and : >I have problem getting user's WWW pages to work properly. > ; >The user's WWW pages are of course in the [.WWW] directory > >under the user's home directory and I've changed "UserDir" to, >"www" and that didn't seem to do the trick. > A >I played around a bit with <Directory> specifications, but can't  >seem to make it work. > < >I've set an ACL like I did for the OSU HTTPD server for the8 >user's WWW directory, but I still get an error about no
 >permissions.  > 7 >Any help would be appreciated as I'm new to Apache. :)    Here's what I use.  I -------------------------------------------------------------------------  # I # UserDir: The name of the directory which is appended onto a user's home + # directory if a ~user request is received.  #  UserDir www  #  <Directory /$disk*/*/www/>3     AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit Indexes @     Options +MultiViews +Indexes +FollowSymLinks +IncludesNoExec%     <Limit GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>          Order allow,deny         Allow from all     </Limit>B     <Limit PUT DELETE PATCH PROPPATCH MKCOL COPY MOVE LOCK UNLOCK>         Order deny,allow         Deny from all      </Limit> </Directory>I -------------------------------------------------------------------------   F Note that OSU figures out the  home directory and looks for the [.www]M subdirectory; if it has access to that (whether through being W:RE or through  ACLs), everything's fine.   K Apache figures out the home directory, but it won't serve it unless you've  H explicitly configured access with a <Directory> statement as well as set' up file-based protection appropriately.   M My disks are mounted with logical names $disk1, $disk2, etc.  (Actually, that O was the old approach; right now $disk1 is a rooted logical for a directory tree K on the same disk as $disk2, etc.)  But the point is, user home directories  @ are generally configured as $DISKn:[username], rather than, say,J $USERDISK:[USERS.username].  So what this directory statement does is tellL Apache it's okay to serve out any [username.www] directory on any disk namedJ $disk(whatever).  It happens that I have one user whose login directory isO $disk1:[username.login]  and this <Directory> container wouldn't work to enable K access to their userdir.  (They don't have one, so I haven't set up another  <Directory> to enable it.)   I hope that this clears it up.  N (And thanks for your pages on enabling SSL with OSU.  I drew heavily on them -L with credit and thanks! - in that section of my webservers-on-VMS book.  You0 might find the book helpful in this transition.)   -- Alan    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 23:51:57 GMT 1 From: Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> I Subject: Re: HELP!!:  Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages... 2 Message-ID: <4200183E.3010408@mail.ourservers.net>   Carl Karcher wrote: 0 > In a previous article, Robert Alan Byer wrote:< > ->I'm moving from OSU HTTPD to Apache v2.0 for OpenVMS and= > ->I have problem getting user's WWW pages to work properly.  > ->  > > ->The user's WWW pages are of course in the [.WWW] directoryA > ->under the user's home directory and I've changed "UserDir" to / > ->"www" and that didn't seem to do the trick.  > ->  D > ->I played around a bit with <Directory> specifications, but can't > ->seem to make it work.  > ->  ? > ->I've set an ACL like I did for the OSU HTTPD server for the ; > ->user's WWW directory, but I still get an error about no  > ->permissions. > F > Note that you need READ access on all directories in the path to theG > WWW directory. With OSU, you could get a way with only EXECUTE on the  > intermediate directories.   5 Thanks, that's what the problem was.  The ACL for the 6 user's root directory was set only for EXECUTE and not READ.   7 Hopefully this will be the only major problem I have :)    > J > BTW: thanks for your excellent documentation on setting up OSU with SSL. >   < No problem, hopefully I'll have the WWW page back up soon :)   > --I > -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison : > --                 karcher.nomorespxm@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 00:17:06 GMT 1 From: Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> I Subject: Re: HELP!!:  Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages... 1 Message-ID: <6_ULd.66$4x5.53@fe2.columbus.rr.com>   , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:m > In article <2VPLd.79835$re1.68603@fe2.columbus.rr.com>, Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> writes:  > : >>I'm moving from OSU HTTPD to Apache v2.0 for OpenVMS and; >>I have problem getting user's WWW pages to work properly.  >>< >>The user's WWW pages are of course in the [.WWW] directory? >>under the user's home directory and I've changed "UserDir" to - >>"www" and that didn't seem to do the trick.  >>B >>I played around a bit with <Directory> specifications, but can't >>seem to make it work.  >>= >>I've set an ACL like I did for the OSU HTTPD server for the 9 >>user's WWW directory, but I still get an error about no  >>permissions. >>8 >>Any help would be appreciated as I'm new to Apache. :) >  >  > Here's what I use. > K > -------------------------------------------------------------------------  > # K > # UserDir: The name of the directory which is appended onto a user's home - > # directory if a ~user request is received.  > # 
 > UserDir www  > #  > <Directory /$disk*/*/www/>5 >     AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit Indexes B >     Options +MultiViews +Indexes +FollowSymLinks +IncludesNoExec' >     <Limit GET POST OPTIONS PROPFIND>  >         Order allow,deny >         Allow from all >     </Limit>D >     <Limit PUT DELETE PATCH PROPPATCH MKCOL COPY MOVE LOCK UNLOCK> >         Order deny,allow >         Deny from all  >     </Limit> > </Directory>K > -------------------------------------------------------------------------  > H > Note that OSU figures out the  home directory and looks for the [.www]O > subdirectory; if it has access to that (whether through being W:RE or through  > ACLs), everything's fine.  > M > Apache figures out the home directory, but it won't serve it unless you've  J > explicitly configured access with a <Directory> statement as well as set) > up file-based protection appropriately.  > O > My disks are mounted with logical names $disk1, $disk2, etc.  (Actually, that Q > was the old approach; right now $disk1 is a rooted logical for a directory tree M > on the same disk as $disk2, etc.)  But the point is, user home directories  B > are generally configured as $DISKn:[username], rather than, say,L > $USERDISK:[USERS.username].  So what this directory statement does is tellN > Apache it's okay to serve out any [username.www] directory on any disk namedL > $disk(whatever).  It happens that I have one user whose login directory isQ > $disk1:[username.login]  and this <Directory> container wouldn't work to enable M > access to their userdir.  (They don't have one, so I haven't set up anotherO > <Directory> to enable it.) >   > I hope that this clears it up. > P > (And thanks for your pages on enabling SSL with OSU.  I drew heavily on them -N > with credit and thanks! - in that section of my webservers-on-VMS book.  You2 > might find the book helpful in this transition.) > 	 > -- AlanA >    Thanks.o  7 The problem I found was that the ACL I had set was only 6 for EXECUTE and not EXECUTE+READ when Apache needs the READ.F  2 I think I can figure out enough of the rest to get4 things back up and running to where they were.  I'll3 have to do a few minor changes to my WWW pages, butW it's part of the change.  6 Thanks for the example on the <Directory> as I'm still' trying to figure out all the options :)    Thanks for the help.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 11:24:00 -0800d) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com>WH Subject: Re: HELP!!: Need Help With OpenVMS Apache And User WWW Pages...C Message-ID: <1107285840.435554.267160@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>w   Robert Alan Byer wrote: : > I'm moving from OSU HTTPD to Apache v2.0 for OpenVMS and; > I have problem getting user's WWW pages to work properly.  >Q< > The user's WWW pages are of course in the [.WWW] directory? > under the user's home directory and I've changed "UserDir" tos- > "www" and that didn't seem to do the trick.  > B > I played around a bit with <Directory> specifications, but can't > seem to make it work.  >n= > I've set an ACL like I did for the OSU HTTPD server for the 9 > user's WWW directory, but I still get an error about no  > permissions. > 8 > Any help would be appreciated as I'm new to Apache. :)  D Make sure the directories and files are readable by the user that is# running Apache, usually APACHE$WWW.f   How are they set up now?   Kene   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:18:36 -0600m2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>B Subject: Re: How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences?+ Message-ID: <4200468C.57B70EE0@comcast.net>r    john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com wrote: >  > In Unix, I can enter:n > 2 > echo "\033P\$smyterminalemulatorfile.psl \033\\" > F > In OpenVMS I have tried many variations with sys$output, but it just9 > prints to the screen and nothing happens on the client.s > Please help me.  Thank you.r   See the links on this page:u" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  * ..., especially the DCL Programming links.   -- c David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:1" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/A  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/M   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 20:04:30 -0000-8 From: Amputate that Foreskin <cutthat@peskyforeskin.off>( Subject: J F on the Joys of Circumcision3 Message-ID: <ECV8J0UG38385.1697916667@reece.net.au>"   Gregory Morrow wrote:y  E >Maybe Nomen Nescio will have to dredge up some of his old posts froma >alt.circumcision, lol  ;---p:  1 Enjoy............................................f  r http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?as_q=circumcision&safe=images&as_uauthors=jfmezei&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en   http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?as_q=circumcision%20masturbation&safe=images&as_uauthors=jfmezei&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=eno  o http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?q=circumcision+masturbate+author:jfmezei&num=100&hl=en&lr=&scoring=d&filter=0   $ From: jfmezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca># Subject: Re: Circumcision FAQ [1/1]  Date: 1996/12/01( Message-ID: <32A14D22.53E5@videotron.ca>I references: <32994531.1E65@videotron.ca> <57g2kf$5db@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>s* content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii organization: SPCr mime-version: 1.0h reply-to: jfmezei@videotron.ca newsgroups: misc.kidsr) x-mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC)        Grace Boockholdt wrote:s< >   It is unclear whether you are describing an *adult* circ= > or an infant circ.   My understanding is that in an *adult*r; > circ, the above is correct...but not so with reference toh > infant circ.    H From looking at guys in the locker room, it seems that most have quite aB bit of inner foreskin left, and most who are cut are cut at birth.F Therefore, I think that it is wrong to say that an infant circumcision removes the inner foreskin.n  > It may remove some inner foreskin, none or all, but you cannotD generalise. But you can *and should* advise parents who do decide toD have their son cut to request that all of the inner foreskin be leftG intact. Hey, if you are not going to convince them to leave son intact, D at least give them hints on how to get a decent circumcision done on
 their infant.o  G As far as the frenulum is concerned, has it ever occured to you that itaH just might be that some are born with short/thin frenulums and some haveH thick ones ? Perhaps some even have the frenulum "shrink" during pubertyG (speculation on my part). So I do not think that it is fair to say that 1 all frenulums are cut off during an infant circ. O    0 > There is no exaggeration to the fact that circ0 > permanently alters the function of the natural	 > penis. n  D Yeah, that is the goal of circumcision.  YOu'll get no debate there.F But you'll get a debate on whether that alteration is good, neutral orF bad. With circumcision, you may loose on the sensitivity of glans, butD gain on the sensitivity of the inner foreskin and shaft skin becauseE they become smooth and somewhat tight on shaft and are therefore more. directly stimulated.  C And summing up the total sexual sensitivity during  very subjectivenC thing to do. And since circumcised males can still masturbate, have ? orgasm and reproduce, then circumcision cannot be all that bad.d    & > There is no exaggeration to the fact0 > that removal of the foreskin means the removal0 > of thousands of exquisitely sensitive Meissner0 > nerve endings which, on the penis, only reside > in the foreskin.  H Define foreskin. Most of the foreskin is just normal regular shaft skin.B Only about 1.5" of the foreskin is the inner foreskin which is the sensitive part.   C And to those who claim that the "frenar band" (where inner foreskiny? transforms into/meets the shaft skin) is more sensitive, I say:aG Could it be that it has more nerves/square cm than other inner foreskin D simply because the skin is not stretched and there is therefore more* skin per square cm in that wrinkled skin ?  G From my personnal experience, I am much more aware of my inner foreskin-G now than before sinply because before, it was "hidden" or bunched up ateC the rim of head and received little or no attention and when it wassG moist, it was next to impossible to rub your fingers on it. I have news.B for you, the moistness which accumulates under the foreskin is NOTE lubricant, it is the opposite of this.  The moistness is NOT pre-cum.s  ( >  The foreskin is natural.   As natural0 > as your nose.  Unless there is something wrong1 > with your nose...it should be left alone.  Samed0 > with the foreskin.  If there are problems with. > the foreskin, they should THEN be addressed.   G Agreed. but you shoudl also agree that some do not like their noses and $ some have problems with their noses.          2 >   I give my sons as many choices as I can.  Both1 > my boys have haircuts I don't particularly like ; > at all.  They will choose the religion they wish...or notn. > choose one...it's up to them.  We teach them0 > morals and consequences without religion being0 > necessary to accomplish this.  We educate them  E This is your own attitude towards the bringing up of a child. While I_F tend to agree with you, I also respect the right of parents to instillF more direction into the way their child develops. How much is too much is hard to judge.b  3 >   If it's purely emotional/social...it belongs to0' > the individual to decide for himself.n  H If the parents culture prevents them from teaching their child about theD care of his foreskin, chances are that the guy will develop foreskinB problems. The parents would therefore acknowledge THEIR problem byE having son circumcised so that their cultural drawback does not caused" their son problems later in life.   A In the above case, the cultural background of the parents is very-G important. If they can't talk about sex to their kid, I consider this ar> problem, but the fact remains that they will still have a kid.  I > }SHORTENING OF THE SKIN BETWEEN THE BASE OF PENIS AND CORONNA OF GLANS.> > / >   This is sugar-coating.  Circumcision is theb+ > removal of erogenous tissue of the penis. ) > *Infant* circumcision is the removal ofc' > erogenous tissue of the penis withOUTS
 > consent.    G If you call shaft skin erogenous tissue, then fine. But the simple facthA that I, a single individual, have gained from having my long skin G shortened means that you cannot use the word "ALL" in your ddefinitionscD of circumcision as an evil thing to do. And i beleive that there areG plenty of adults whose condition improved after circumcision, some mores radical than others.      . >   So?  Some women's labia are long and thick, > and over hangs.  Shall we start advocating( > the "new and improved smoooooth female2 > genitalia"  "streamlined for esthetics", "easier! > to clean...smells fresh, too!"?e  : Don't give doctors any ideas ! :-) :-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)  G If your labia were long and thick and you felt that it hindered on your C sex and appearance and knew that a simple procedure could fix that, G wouldn't you consider it ? Some are able to accept their body as it is,eG and some strive to improve the way they look (with sports, better food, 6 , hair colouring and to the extreme: cosmetic surgery)  6 If parents think that their son, once grown, will feelE inferior/different because of his foreskin, they will surely consideri& infant circumcision as an improvement.  H You need to convince those that when their just born son grows up, it is7 the circumcised ones that will feel inferior/different.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:00:15 GMTt: From: Aidan Karley <aidan@mynameplus1.demon.co.uk.invalid>7 Subject: Re: List of DEC boards to be auctioned on EbaynB Message-ID: <VA.00000532.0b9fd26c@mynameplus1.demon.co.uk.invalid>  D In article <1107223908.576037.21320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,   wrote:D > Kurt: Go to http://pdf995.com/ and download the free(*) PDF makingC > software... use that to post a more readable file for all to use.y > E > (*) Free if you don't mind the nag screen in your browser each timeh3 > you create a PDF. For $9.95, the 'nag' goes away.f >a1        Or you could get a copy of TheOpenCD from IG http://theopencd.sunsite.dk/ and get *lots* of Free (as in speech, and  H as in beer) software, including the excellent PDFCreator package, which 3 does the job very nicely. The project itself is at -. http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/ .         "*        Someone said that these things are / > Free only if you value your own time at zero.  >kH        Sorry loon, you're *wrong*. I very definitely value my time at a F lot more than zero, and PDFCreator is *still* free - so free that I'm H considering donating to the project's coffers. (What's holding me back? D Well, I did pay AU$40 for use of Ghostscript View a couple of years B ago, in large part for the ability to make PDFs. So I consider my F conscience clean. PDFCreator does the same job, but doesn't do others  that GSView can. Hmm.)        t -- i  Aidan Karley,  Aberdeen, Scotland,G  Location: 5710'11" N,  0208'43"  W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233t   ------------------------------   Date: 1 FEB 2005 11:11:32 GMTd4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: MySQL problem5 Message-ID: <1FEB05.11113264@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>t  / In a previous article, Steven M. Schweda wrote:   I ->   No bets, but you might get a more satisfactory result from a commandi ->like:9 -> o" ->      zip "-r" test.zip test.dir  G I was excited to try this - but disappointment set in after it produced9 the same result:   bash$ zip -r test test.dir/         zip warning: name not matched: test.dir   B zip error: Nothing to do! (try: zip "-V" -r" test *.* -i test.dir)   Thanks for trying.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisone= --                      karcher.nomorespem@waisman.wisc.edu      ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:18:54 -0600 (CST)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: MySQL problem2 Message-ID: <05020114185479_27001146@antinode.org>  4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)  $ > ->      zip "-r" test.zip test.dir > I > I was excited to try this - but disappointment set in after it producede > the same result: >  > bash$ zip -r test test.dir1 >         zip warning: name not matched: test.dirt > D > zip error: Nothing to do! (try: zip "-V" -r" test *.* -i test.dir)  I    My diagnosis was probably useless for a GNV-compiled Zip.  (I have yet D to dive into GNV.)  It's probably pointless, but does adding "-v" do9 anything informative?  (What does plain "zip -v" report?)   H    Most likely, some serious debugging would be needed to track down theE problem.  (Could be something in the stat() or other C RTL stuff, for 	 example.)s  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:57:45 -0600 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: MySQL problemD Message-ID: <craigberry-48A40C.19574401022005@news.isp.giganews.com>  2 In article <05020114185479_27001146@antinode.org>,,  sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote:  6 > From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) > & > > ->      zip "-r" test.zip test.dir > > K > > I was excited to try this - but disappointment set in after it produced. > > the same result: > >  > > bash$ zip -r test test.dir3 > >         zip warning: name not matched: test.dir  > > F > > zip error: Nothing to do! (try: zip "-V" -r" test *.* -i test.dir)  J >    Most likely, some serious debugging would be needed to track down theG > problem.  (Could be something in the stat() or other C RTL stuff, fort > example.)i    D Been there, done that, fixed it, submitted the patch.  At least I'm E pretty sure from the symptoms described that the problem is test.DIR e@ doesn't match in a case sensitive comparison with test.dir.  See  I http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=920330&group_id=s 2506&atid=302506  D Clearly no one is monitoring patches to GNV.  But I think you (SMS) C already have a better version of this queued for the next Info-Zip e release?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:15:42 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: MySQL problem+ Message-ID: <420045DE.8DFD8086@comcast.net>e   Carl Karcher wrote:i > 2 > In a previous article, "John E. Malmberg" wrote: > ->David J Dachtera wrote:  > ->>t9 > ->> VMS support for free-form filenames requires ODS-5.i > ->>iL > ->> ZIP/UNZIP support for free-form filenames requires newer versions than) > ->> are currently common "in the wild".  > ->L > ->Is there something wrong with the versions included with the latest GNV? > @ > Zip does not appear to be able to recurse directories. In thisA > example (on an ODS-5 volume with extended parse style enabled),oG > subdirectory "test" contains two files and another subdirectory "sub"- > which contains one file: >  > $ bash > bash$ ls -R test > test:r+ > Test-File-One.txt  Test-File-Two.txt  sub  >  > test/sub:v > Test-File-Three.txtm > bash$ zip -r test.zip test- >         zip warning: name not matched: teste > @ > zip error: Nothing to do! (try: zip "-r" test.zip *.* -i test)% > bash$ zip "-r" test.zip *.* -i test: > 9 > zip error: Nothing to do! (SCRATCH0:[KARCHER]TEST.ZIP;)o > I > On a linux system the first zip command zips up all the files under thew* > temp subdirectory (the desired outcome).  $ The VMS version does this just fine.   -- n David J Dachtera dba DJE SystemsO http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:y" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/f  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/p   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 22:04:20 -0600 (CST)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: MySQL problem2 Message-ID: <05020122042047_27001145@antinode.org>  6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>    > > > bash$ zip -r test test.dir5 > > >         zip warning: name not matched: test.dirb > > > H > > > zip error: Nothing to do! (try: zip "-V" -r" test *.* -i test.dir)  F > Been there, done that, fixed it, submitted the patch.  At least I'm G > pretty sure from the symptoms described that the problem is test.DIR eB > doesn't match in a case sensitive comparison with test.dir.  See > K > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=920330&group_id=a > 2506&atid=302506 > F > Clearly no one is monitoring patches to GNV.  But I think you (SMS) E > already have a better version of this queued for the next Info-Zip >
 > release?  G    If the only problem is the case mismatch, then the next Zip releasesoG should help.  (I didn't recognize this as the result of that.)  I don't G know what the timing will be, but a 2.31 bug-fix release of the current.E Zip and the first release of the new 3.0 Zip are getting closer.  TheaE VMS-specific code in both will use case-blind comparisons, some caret-, removal, and some extra conditionality like:   #ifndef VMS_PRESERVE_CASEe   strlower( n);v# #endif /* ndef VMS_PRESERVE_CASE */E  H If that's enough, then you're all set (eventually).  I'm still trying toG work up the ambition to do more ODS5 accomodation in some other places,h" but some stuff should work better.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orgq    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:59:00 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>C@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS, Message-ID: <ZPWdnZ5B7ILuTGLcRVn-hQ@igs.net>  
 AEF wrote: > Dave Froble wrote:
 >> AEF wrote:m >> >>G >>> But, Alphas can still be had even now, 3.5 yrs. later. The road map B >>> says thru at least 2006 (OK, that can't be taken for granted).D >>> Support to at least 2011 (same quals). So assuming the 2006/2011B >>> dates to be good, any Alphas bought prior to the Alphacide canB >>> still be used, upgraded, what have you thru 2006. So that's atD >>> least 5 yrs on your pre-Alphacide Alphas. Is that the end of the- >>> world? Hey, I'm running MicroVAX systems!t >> >>B >> If you're running a large company, with extensive investment inB >> applications that enable your business, what do you do, plan on >> shutting down in 2011?f >s. > Well, I think 10 years is quite a long time.    K If you are a life insurance company just selling a policy where the insured H is a newborn baby then 100 years isn't out of the question. Or a defenseL contractor at the early stages of a 'product' life cycle then 35 years isn't out of the question.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 19:17:57 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMSC Message-ID: <1107314277.261560.190270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>0   John Smith wrote:. > AEF wrote: > > Dave Froble wrote: > >> AEF wrote:o > >> > >>E > >>> But, Alphas can still be had even now, 3.5 yrs. later. The roadq mapfD > >>> says thru at least 2006 (OK, that can't be taken for granted).F > >>> Support to at least 2011 (same quals). So assuming the 2006/2011D > >>> dates to be good, any Alphas bought prior to the Alphacide canD > >>> still be used, upgraded, what have you thru 2006. So that's atF > >>> least 5 yrs on your pre-Alphacide Alphas. Is that the end of the/ > >>> world? Hey, I'm running MicroVAX systems!c > >> > >>D > >> If you're running a large company, with extensive investment inD > >> applications that enable your business, what do you do, plan on > >> shutting down in 2011?t  A I'd expect some changes in the computer room after 10 years, evenf without the Alphacide.  0 > > Well, I think 10 years is quite a long time. >tE > If you are a life insurance company just selling a policy where thee insuredeB > is a newborn baby then 100 years isn't out of the question. Or a defenseeB > contractor at the early stages of a 'product' life cycle then 35 years isn't- > out of the question.  C Thirty-five years ago, it was 1970.* There was no VAX, no Alpha, no@D Integrity, and no VMS. I suppose hp should be critcized for dropping> support on the pdp's. And is anyone complaining that hp is notG supporting a VAX they bought in 1978 (which is less than 35 years ago)?hG Or maybe they are supporting such VAX systems! I don't really know, but  I suspect not.  B Thirty-five years ago? I think we're talking vacuum tubes. ... OK,- maybe not, but it's not that far off I think!a  B * This was modeled after Dave Barry's opening line in his Godzilla> column: Fifty years ago it was 1954. (Research is the heart of journalism.)   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 19:19:36 -0800n$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMSC Message-ID: <1107314376.551539.196200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>n   Dave Froble wrote: > AEF wrote: >r > > JF Mezei wrote:i > G > >>At the time Compaq was telling customers was safe, Curly was havinge8 > >>meetings to seriously consider retiring the product. > >>C > >>At the time Compaq had all those white papers and presentations  > >> > > showing  > >e> > >>how dismal IA64 was going to be and how Alpha would retain > >> > > superiority,.s > >e( > >>Compaq was planning to retire Alpha. > >> > >tF > > This is a fascinating juxtaposition of sentences. Are you sure you > > wrote what you meant?. >n > He knows what he wrote.l >a" > That is EXACTLY how it happened. > * > Now do you understand the lack of trust?  F I understood it before, but I understand it better now. So what's your point?  F > Note, the white paper is still available if you search around a bit. I'm sureG > there are plenty of individuals who saved copies of it.  However, youO
 won't find7 > it where it originally appeared, the Compaq web site.o > . > These 'people' practice revisionist history.   OK.-   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 19:29:38 -0800t$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMSB Message-ID: <1107314978.026862.44390@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote: F > > >> If you're running a large company, with extensive investment inF > > >> applications that enable your business, what do you do, plan on > > >> shutting down in 2011?s > > >i1 > > > Well, I think 10 years is quite a long timeh >d > Lets look at SAP.t   Must we? ;-)   >oD > Lets say it would take 3 years for SAP to ramp up a VMS version of its product.  E Three years starting when? If such product became available after thec@ Alphacide, then everyone knows what's up. If such product becameF available before the Alphacide, the 3 years makes no difference except to SAP.   G > And when you look at oarge SAP project, they probably take 3 years torG > fully implement. What sort of paypack schedule do you expect when youW  D Three years? Hell, they can fix the A and C subway lines in New York  City in less time than that! :-)  D > spend a few million dollars to implement a SAP solution to replace yourD > existing software in order to add just a few more capabilities ? 3 yearsW  ? Millions to just add a few of something? Sounds like a bad ideah already.  C > ? 5 years ? 10 years ?  (note that during those periods, you willtG > upgrade hardware and software, but you're not expected to re-engineer,? > your corporation once you've made the first re-engineering toe implemegt SAP).U  @ >From what I've heard about SAP, you'd be in trouble regardless.  C > Nowk, consider that IA64 doesn't have any visibility beyond 2007. E > Consider that HP has begun to remove the "at least" from its "Alphaa to$ > be available until at least 2006".   So what's your point?t  D > For large new projects, VMS just isn't a platform you can bet yourA > corporation on. For small quick projects, you can still justifya fightingA > to use VMS instead of moderns platforms. But for the really big-E > projects, the lack of strong adoption by HP, the lack fo visibilitys ofD > the IA64 platform, and the lack of marketing, and the lack of realE > development on VMS just don't maie that platform really attractive.e  $ Fine, then switch to an inferior OS.  E > It is no wonder that Livermore has resigned herself to only wantingo toG > slow down the loss of existing VMS customer base. And they are stupidD toF > put a 2006 deadline on Alpha. They should have maintained"we'll sellG > Alpha for as long as there is demand". If IA64 is truly better and ifiD > IA64 truly has a assured confident future, the customers will drop alphawF > and go IA64 naturally. But you don't want to force them off Alpha ifG > they don't see IA64 as a viable platform because if you do that, theyv > will go to IBM or Sun.   So what's your point?r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:48:08 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>e Subject: Re: Official LogoB Message-ID: <1107286619.b3c05d1988e9eebd0ebc24d9c85b0a57@teranews>   issinoho wrote:    $ > What do we all think of this logo?   You mean the arrow thing ????h  E It isn't a logo. It is a piece of generic clipart that was found very G fast when someone was making some powerpoint presentation and needed ton4 show progression of VMS from VAX to that IA64 thing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:51:32 -0500l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Official LogoB Message-ID: <1107286840.9579728a3208ae05ff8224f33f4f78d0@teranews>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:F > Keith Cayemberg mentioned something in recent posting that I had notJ > really thought about - there are numerous "VMS" products out there today9 > and dropping the "Open" would confuse things even more.t > 8 > As an example, check out Cisco's VMS product offering:    E THAT IS BECAUSE DIGITAL/COMPAQ/HP HAVE NOT DEFENDED THEIR TRADEMARKS.t  ? VMS WAS THERE FIRST AND DESERVES "VMS" FOR ITSELF. AND IF CISCOt< ADVERTISES A PRODUCT CALLED "VMS" CAN IT HURT THE REAL VMS ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:47:24 -05005 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>  Subject: RE: Official LogoQ Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D507CBCB73@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>s  < Not sure what a "red headded stepchild" logo would look like     :-)E   -----Original Message------ From: issinoho [mailto:issinoho@gmail.com]=20e( Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:45 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd Subject: Official Logo    E Given the recent high profile nature of VMS following the 8.2 launch,n would=20> it be too much to ask that HP provide us with a cool new logo?  G Barring the fairly tacky shark logo from years ago (was that ever an=20 B official logo?) it seems ludicrous that we don't have something to
 compete=20+ with the Linux penguin or the Redmond flag.h  G It's simple things like this that further marginalise us and give an=20k' impression of inactivity. What say you?i          ) ------------------------------------------ The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of  the original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions.tyIf you, as the intended recipient of this message, the purpose of which is to inform and update our clients, prospects and consultants of developments relating to our services and products, would not like to receive further e-mail correspondence from the sender, please "reply" to the sender indicating your wishes. In the U.S.: 1345 Avenue of the Americas, New York, NY 10105.r   ------------------------------   Date: 01 Feb 2005 20:49:25 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com>l Subject: Re: Official Logo7 Message-ID: <Xns95F0DE31C6173dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>n  ! %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, issinoho wrote in ( news:10vv67v32jtlkb3@corp.supernews.com   5 > "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in message nI > news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53EEAD@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.nh > et...  > OpenVMS does have a new logo.- >  > Check it out at:8 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/index.html  B > Thanks, Kerry, for the helpful response. I appreciate your time. > $ > What do we all think of this logo?  E It looks like ten minutes work from someone new to whatever graphics e package they used.  B I'd vote for an updated version of the shark logo.  Preferably by , licensing the Hajime Sorayama shark artwork.  F http://www.beachbrowser.com/_borders/Hajime_Sorayama_Metal_Shark_2.gif     Doc. -- uG OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems.rG http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:14:04 +0100 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> Subject: Re: Official LogoB Message-ID: <41fff11c$0$18562$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   issinoho wrote:s  N > Given the recent high profile nature of VMS following the 8.2 launch, would @ > it be too much to ask that HP provide us with a cool new logo? > G > Barring the fairly tacky shark logo from years ago (was that ever an -M > official logo?) it seems ludicrous that we don't have something to compete o- > with the Linux penguin or the Redmond flag.q > G > It's simple things like this that further marginalise us and give an  ) > impression of inactivity. What say you?i >  > G My understanding is that the Shark logo/mascot is not an official logo  8 despite being also available on the OpenVMS Freeware CD.7 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/vms_logo/   E Actually, I also quite like the Shark Logo and the Shark as a mascot  E (see ELASMOBRANCH SEMIOLOGY below). Maybe we just need some improved rE higher resolution versions of it. Here is a collection Shark Clipart -5 which has been made available for use on web sites...e http://www.oceanstar.com/shark/ 8 http://www.postmodern.com/~fi/sharkpics/clipart/clip.htm Animated OpenVMS Shark!CB http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~binder/serverinfo/vms-sharkani.gif  0 Here are the OpenVMS Shark Logos I'm aware of.... http://wiz.openvms.org/images/vms_shark_hp.png3 http://wiz.openvms.org/images/vms_shark_ovmsorg.pnga1 http://wiz.openvms.org/images/vms-shark-large.gife5 http://wiz.openvms.org/images/hobshark_small_ovms.gif 4 http://www.xlnsystems.com/images/sm_HP_VMS_SHARK.gif2 http://www.ifn.ing.tu-bs.de/ifn/sonst/vmslogo1.gif3 http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/ico/vmslogomini.gife& http://heimnet.com/digital/vmsshrk.gifA http://www.preatorian.net/portal/themes/standard/images/intro.jpgt     *HAJIME SHARKS* H The best existing graphics of the OpenVMS Shark logo are probably those F based on the Hajime Shark, but it is copyrighted, and I don't believe D it's use for OpenVMS has been approved in any way. Please see these  former shark threads...af http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/800b2977907d9f46/9c1aba1fe9b9231af http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/34a78c40852b5a80/43c21029b767762af http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/984856ab9a1c9008/4e8b1498169757d3   Hajime Sorayama - Web Site http://www.sorayama.net/ Original Hajime Shark GraphicsF http://www.beachbrowser.com/_borders/Hajime_Sorayama_Metal_Shark_2.gif9 http://red.upsiger.free.fr/pub/images/sorayama%20fish.jpg H 3D Version - you need red-cyan glasses for this. What! You don't always  carry them with you!L http://red.upsiger.free.fr/pub/images/anaglyphes/sorayama%20shark%20anag.jpgM http://red.upsiger.free.fr/pub/images/anaglyphes/sorayamasharkanagthbnrol.swfi  I Another Shark Graphic by Dominator is similar, but I don't know what the -% copyright status for this graphic is.0' http://www.kameli.net/nocopy/noc109.htmn4 http://www.kameli.net/nocopy/109-Dominator_Shark.jpg  ' Other Hajime Shark based OpenVMS Logos:0N http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/openvms_history/hobbyist_history/vmsshark20.gif+ http://hobbesnet.org/images/battleshark.jpgf+ http://www.heimnet.com/digital/shark640.jpg'5 http://hack-a.vmsbox.cjb.net/VMSHackFAQ-Banner_02.gifgA http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/ovms_art/large/Iovmsmetalshark.gifi/ http://www.kameli.net/nocopy/109-hajime24_2.jpgn     *ELASMOBRANCH SEMIOLOGY*L The Shark carries a lot of symbolism with it that is pertinent to OpenVMS...  C * The Shark is among one of the longest surviving creatures in the UI ocean. The shark evolved to currently recognizable form over 400 million o> years ago. And, this form has remained competitive ever since.* http://www.shark.ch/Sharkdb/treestart.html  E * The Sharks design has been extremely successfull, and where needed  F adaptable (hammer-heads for instance), providing it with a niche that D has made the shark indispensible for the health of it's environment.8 http://new-brunswick.net/new-brunswick/sharks/types.html+ http://www.sharktrust.org/cgi/info.asp?ID=4   B * The Shark has unique, highly advanced capabilities and features.- http://www.sharktrust.org/cgi/morphology.html K http://animal.discovery.com/convergence/safari/shark/photo/photo_zoom6.htmle  F * The Shark is largely misunderstood by the public. Many untrue myths  exist about the shark.? http://www.marinelab.sarasota.fl.us/~rhueter/sharks/myths.phtml 8 http://new-brunswick.net/new-brunswick/sharks/myths.html7 http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/sharkmountain/myths.html   D * The Shark is endangered, but with a little more consideration, it + could potentially rebound with a vengeance.p3 http://www.shark.ch/cgi-bin/Sharks/Facts/facts_e.plp+ http://www.sharktrust.org/cgi/info.asp?ID=7e  C * The shark will eat flightless or flighty birds which are foolish  + enough to venture near or into its terrain.-A http://www.sunnybrook.utoronto.ca:8080/~liu/ultimate/penguins.gifmA http://www.people.vcu.edu/~gasaunde/images/SharkAndHelicopter.jpgo  H Besides, the logo also fits best to my old Hacker pseudonym (no I don't ! mean Cracker)...  CyberShark  :-)M   Cheers!N   Keith Cayembergd   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:42:34 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Official LogoB Message-ID: <1107293480.46e7d902c4aaaff206988d4afd092b25@teranews>  ! re: various links to shark images.  B There is that perfect example of VMS use in military applications:  # http://www.vaxination.ca/badday.jpg&   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:37:02 -0800r4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> Subject: Re: Official Logo. Message-ID: <41FFF67E.8080307@Flying-Disk.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:   > OpenVMS does have a new logo.e >  > Check it out at:8 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/index.html  > Sorry, Kerry, but that's a pretty sorry excuse for a VMS logo.@ The Cheshire Cat was a good one.   The shark was OK.   The Linux; penguine is good.   The arrow doesn't make the grade, in myh opinion.   VMS deserves better.h   Alan Frisbie   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 15:58:58 -0600t; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: RE: Official Logo3 Message-ID: <9+BygQg5veGw@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53EEAD@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >  > OpenVMS does have a new logo.i >       I liked the shark better.  D    I got bored of the little box logo for my shortcut to my SIMH VAXF    so I tracked down a Cheshire cat.  But then I had to make it into aE    Windows icon file, what a PITA (I'm used to X11 icons and MacitosheA    icons, I wasn't expecting to have to go track down a sharewarel	    tool).h  C    Of course Albert was actually the SIG mascot, not the OS mascot, E    and most of the work I could find was based on Disney; something IaE    don't have a problem using as a hobbyist, but I think HP could geta&    into trouble imitating Disney's IP.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 16:04:27 -0600d; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u Subject: Re: Official Logo3 Message-ID: <RVRrKcoF6Q19@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  r In article <1107293480.46e7d902c4aaaff206988d4afd092b25@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:# > re: various links to shark imagesd > D > There is that perfect example of VMS use in military applications: > % > http://www.vaxination.ca/badday.jpgn  C    I recall when our Field Service guys who took care of our 36 bitc6    machines were telling us about getting "vaxinated".   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 16:18:12 -0600l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h Subject: Re: Official Logo3 Message-ID: <W9nVayOXF1iD@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  e In article <41FFF67E.8080307@Flying-Disk.com>, Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:m > Main, Kerry wrote: >   >> OpenVMS does have a new logo. >> t >> Check it out at:r9 >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/index.htmle > @ > Sorry, Kerry, but that's a pretty sorry excuse for a VMS logo." > The Cheshire Cat was a good one.  1 But it had severe intellectual property problems.s   > The shark was OK.t  2 But it seems to require licensing from the artist.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 23:37:07 +0100o From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Official Logo2 Message-ID: <ctp0al$k5u$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>   issinoho wrote:fB > Thanks, Kerry, for the helpful response. I appreciate your time. > $ > What do we all think of this logo?  O It is not really new, ir has been around for at least a year or so. However it e> seems they added the text in the arrow (vax > integrity etc.).  J And what do I think about the logo? Mmmmmmm..... I'm not overwhelmed with P emotion :-) . One might even think that the arrow is pointing backwards to show D us where VMS is going..... ????? (sorry Kerry, couldn't resist :-) )   >  > 5 > "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in message sN > news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53EEAD@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... >  >  >  >>-----Original Message-----, >>From: issinoho [mailto:issinoho@gmail.com]  >>Sent: February 1, 2005 7:45 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt >>Subject: Official Logo >>? >>Given the recent high profile nature of VMS following the 8.2a >>launch, woulda@ >>it be too much to ask that HP provide us with a cool new logo? >>F >>Barring the fairly tacky shark logo from years ago (was that ever an7 >>official logo?) it seems ludicrous that we don't havei >>something to compete- >>with the Linux penguin or the Redmond flag.  >>F >>It's simple things like this that further marginalise us and give an) >>impression of inactivity. What say you?g >> >  >  > OpenVMS does have a new logo.  >  > Check it out at:8 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/index.html > 	 > Regardsi >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultanti > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660n > Fax: 613-591-4477h > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)e > & > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..! > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .." l >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:49:55 +0000u# From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com>o Subject: Re: Official Logo3 Message-ID: <1107298167.32565.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>a   Alan Frisbie wrote:n > Main, Kerry wrote: >   >> OpenVMS does have a new logo. >> >> Check it out at:c9 >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/index.html  >  > @ > Sorry, Kerry, but that's a pretty sorry excuse for a VMS logo.B > The Cheshire Cat was a good one.   The shark was OK.   The Linux= > penguine is good.   The arrow doesn't make the grade, in my ! > opinion.   VMS deserves better.h >  > Alan Frisbie > H Agreed. The main point I was trying to make - and somebody picked up on $ this already - is marketing & image.F We need something which the whole world will instantly associate with H OpenVMS (and for what its worth I now prefer the "Open" to remain as it 4 fully distinguishes the product when Googling, etc.)J I'm not sure about the shark, but anything's better than Kerry's arrow ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 18:01:06 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t Subject: Re: Official LogoB Message-ID: <1107298188.28b885ebf4e5941e205fc734aa900760@teranews>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:4 > But it seems to require licensing from the artist.  G That says a lot about a company not wishing to pay an artist for a logon- to sell a supposedly very profitable product.h  E And I really have to ask this: If Gorham is unable to secure a peanut H budget to pay an artist for a logo, is it sheer incompetence, or are hisD hands to tied by HP that micromanages VMS to prevent any marketing ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 23:38:54 GMTuL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: RE: Official Logo6 Message-ID: <00A3EBFC.99B4EC71@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  q In article <7OqwehQ$sJCx@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:5} >In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53EEB5@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:E >>  $ >> Re: drop "Open" part of OpenVMS.. >> sG >> Keith Cayemberg mentioned something in recent posting that I had not.K >> really thought about - there are numerous "VMS" products out there todayh: >> and dropping the "Open" would confuse things even more. >> b9 >> As an example, check out Cisco's VMS product offering:t >> g2 >> http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/prod_103101.html > A >   I believe somewhere in the "Open", DEC, COMPAQ, HP, chain theyE >   copyright on VMS was dropped.  It would be rather hard now to gete >   it back. >a  J It was probably trademarked rather than copyrighted.  (You can't copyrightJ titles, for one thing.)  And even with a a vigorous trademark defense, theM basic principle is that the same name/acronym can be used for "non-infringing 9 uses"; if there's no likelihood of somebody confusing the O cows-check-themselves-in-to-be-milked thing with the computer operating system,aG then the first can be called Voluntary Milking System (VMS) despite theoH trademark on the second.  And similarly for Voice Messaging Systems, and> similarly for Varian Medical Systems as the name of a company.  P It's even harder to make a trademark-based defense against people who pluralize K the acronym for Virtual Machine (in the Java sense); those VMs foul up your : google searches, but there's not much to be done for them.   -- Alan    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:50:30 -0500# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>  Subject: RE: Official Logo: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDMEEEGAAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----D > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]* > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 4:59 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: RE: Official Logo >  > 
 > In article eH > <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53EEAD@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>- > , "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:  > > ! > > OpenVMS does have a new logo.a > >  >  >    I liked the shark better. > F >    I got bored of the little box logo for my shortcut to my SIMH VAXH >    so I tracked down a Cheshire cat.  But then I had to make it into aG >    Windows icon file, what a PITA (I'm used to X11 icons and Macitosh-C >    icons, I wasn't expecting to have to go track down a sharewarer >    tool).o > E >    Of course Albert was actually the SIG mascot, not the OS mascot,1G >    and most of the work I could find was based on Disney; something ICG >    don't have a problem using as a hobbyist, but I think HP could get ( >    into trouble imitating Disney's IP.   I always loved that Wombat....      ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 23:53:14 GMT:% From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>  Subject: RE: Official LogoD Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0502011643060.9709@localhost.localdomain>  & On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, Bob Koehler wrote:  A >   I believe somewhere in the "Open", DEC, COMPAQ, HP, chain theaE >   copyright on VMS was dropped.  It would be rather hard now to geto >   it back.  G That appears to be the case.  I just took a look at the V7.3-2 docs at (# <http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/doc>..  8 The _Extensible Versatile Editor Reference Manual_ says:      (c) 2001 Compaq ...  ;    ... VMS ... Register in U.S. Patent and Trademark OfficeW  * The _OpenVMS Cluster Systems_ manual says:      (c) 2002 Compaq ...  +    ... VMS ... are trademarks of Compaq ...0  * The _HP OpenVMS DCL Dictionary: A-M_ says:      (c) 2003 Hewlett-Packard ...>  G and does not mention any of the usual DEC trademarks, although it does @- say mention many other companies' trademarks.8   :-(0     -- i  B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free!-6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX)h2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 21:11:14 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: Official LogoR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53EF05@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----/ > From: issinoho [mailto:issinoho@gmail.com]=20t  > Sent: February 1, 2005 5:50 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Re: Official Logo >=20   [snip..]  = > I'm not sure about the shark, but anything's better than=20s > Kerry's arrow ;-)e >=20  F Hey, I am just the one pointing this out. I do not know if it was ever: an "official" logo - whatever "official" means these days.   :-)u  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660n Fax: 613-591-4477e kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 04:03:09 GMTt6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> Subject: Re: Official Logo> Message-ID: <1iYLd.64952$fE4.9768192@twister.southeast.rr.com>  K I posted the list Keith you made and I've pulled up some of the images.  I f/ didn't post any I thought might be copyrighted.   + http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Logos>  ' Anyone is welcome to contribute images.i     Keni   OpenVMS.orgN% _____________________________________e Kenneth R. Farmer <><.% SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com       > "Keith Cayemberg" <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote in message < news:41fff11c$0$18562$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net... > issinoho wrote:h > I >> Given the recent high profile nature of VMS following the 8.2 launch,  G >> would it be too much to ask that HP provide us with a cool new logo?  >>H >> Barring the fairly tacky shark logo from years ago (was that ever an F >> official logo?) it seems ludicrous that we don't have something to 6 >> compete with the Linux penguin or the Redmond flag. >>H >> It's simple things like this that further marginalise us and give an * >> impression of inactivity. What say you? >> >>I > My understanding is that the Shark logo/mascot is not an official logo  : > despite being also available on the OpenVMS Freeware CD.9 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/vms_logo/  >nL > Actually, I also quite like the Shark Logo and the Shark as a mascot (see I > ELASMOBRANCH SEMIOLOGY below). Maybe we just need some improved higher gJ > resolution versions of it. Here is a collection Shark Clipart which has - > been made available for use on web sites...S! > http://www.oceanstar.com/shark/M: > http://www.postmodern.com/~fi/sharkpics/clipart/clip.htm > Animated OpenVMS Shark!rD > http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~binder/serverinfo/vms-sharkani.gif >h2 > Here are the OpenVMS Shark Logos I'm aware of...0 > http://wiz.openvms.org/images/vms_shark_hp.png5 > http://wiz.openvms.org/images/vms_shark_ovmsorg.pngi3 > http://wiz.openvms.org/images/vms-shark-large.gife7 > http://wiz.openvms.org/images/hobshark_small_ovms.gife6 > http://www.xlnsystems.com/images/sm_HP_VMS_SHARK.gif4 > http://www.ifn.ing.tu-bs.de/ifn/sonst/vmslogo1.gif5 > http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/ico/vmslogomini.gifl( > http://heimnet.com/digital/vmsshrk.gifC > http://www.preatorian.net/portal/themes/standard/images/intro.jpg  >S >  > *HAJIME SHARKS*tJ > The best existing graphics of the OpenVMS Shark logo are probably those M > based on the Hajime Shark, but it is copyrighted, and I don't believe it's IH > use for OpenVMS has been approved in any way. Please see these former  > shark threads...h > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/800b2977907d9f46/9c1aba1fe9b9231ah > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/34a78c40852b5a80/43c21029b767762ah > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/984856ab9a1c9008/4e8b1498169757d3 >a > Hajime Sorayama - Web Site > http://www.sorayama.net/ > Original Hajime Shark Graphic H > http://www.beachbrowser.com/_borders/Hajime_Sorayama_Metal_Shark_2.gif; > http://red.upsiger.free.fr/pub/images/sorayama%20fish.jpg-J > 3D Version - you need red-cyan glasses for this. What! You don't always  > carry them with you!N > http://red.upsiger.free.fr/pub/images/anaglyphes/sorayama%20shark%20anag.jpgO > http://red.upsiger.free.fr/pub/images/anaglyphes/sorayamasharkanagthbnrol.swf< >oK > Another Shark Graphic by Dominator is similar, but I don't know what the S' > copyright status for this graphic is..) > http://www.kameli.net/nocopy/noc109.htm>6 > http://www.kameli.net/nocopy/109-Dominator_Shark.jpg > ) > Other Hajime Shark based OpenVMS Logos:sP > http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/openvms_history/hobbyist_history/vmsshark20.gif- > http://hobbesnet.org/images/battleshark.jpg - > http://www.heimnet.com/digital/shark640.jpgo7 > http://hack-a.vmsbox.cjb.net/VMSHackFAQ-Banner_02.gifeC > http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/ovms_art/large/Iovmsmetalshark.gifl1 > http://www.kameli.net/nocopy/109-hajime24_2.jpgu >n >i > *ELASMOBRANCH SEMIOLOGY*D > The Shark carries a lot of symbolism with it that is pertinent to  > OpenVMS... >eL > * The Shark is among one of the longest surviving creatures in the ocean. J > The shark evolved to currently recognizable form over 400 million years : > ago. And, this form has remained competitive ever since., > http://www.shark.ch/Sharkdb/treestart.html >iG > * The Sharks design has been extremely successfull, and where needed eL > adaptable (hammer-heads for instance), providing it with a niche that has B > made the shark indispensible for the health of it's environment.: > http://new-brunswick.net/new-brunswick/sharks/types.html- > http://www.sharktrust.org/cgi/info.asp?ID=47 >1D > * The Shark has unique, highly advanced capabilities and features./ > http://www.sharktrust.org/cgi/morphology.html M > http://animal.discovery.com/convergence/safari/shark/photo/photo_zoom6.html  > H > * The Shark is largely misunderstood by the public. Many untrue myths  > exist about the shark.A > http://www.marinelab.sarasota.fl.us/~rhueter/sharks/myths.phtmlh: > http://new-brunswick.net/new-brunswick/sharks/myths.html9 > http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/sharkmountain/myths.html  >rL > * The Shark is endangered, but with a little more consideration, it could ' > potentially rebound with a vengeance. 5 > http://www.shark.ch/cgi-bin/Sharks/Facts/facts_e.plv- > http://www.sharktrust.org/cgi/info.asp?ID=7b >nL > * The shark will eat flightless or flighty birds which are foolish enough & > to venture near or into its terrain.C > http://www.sunnybrook.utoronto.ca:8080/~liu/ultimate/penguins.gifuC > http://www.people.vcu.edu/~gasaunde/images/SharkAndHelicopter.jpgi >aJ > Besides, the logo also fits best to my old Hacker pseudonym (no I don't # > mean Cracker)...  CyberShark  :-)t >t	 > Cheers!a >  > Keith Cayembergt >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:13:32 -0800 3 From: "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii_googlespam@yahoo.com>n5 Subject: RE: Official Logo (Should be: Dilbert's tie)o0 Message-ID: <1100aq4k69n40fb@corp.supernews.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:   > OpenVMS does have a new logo.  >  > Check it out at:8 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/index.html  ; Looks like someone took a file to the end of Dilbert's tie.    -- g C.W.Holeman II) cwh5ii@Julian5Locals.com remove the fivesb   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 11:37:51 -0800  From: JBloggs@acme.comH Subject: Re: Replacement for NotePad or Text editor for Windows machines8 Message-ID: <chmvv0902tn20eqss42ak1nvs1bpja5skg@4ax.com>  H >> Does anyone know of or have a text editor package for Window 2000/XP C >> machines that is more functional than NotePad?  Especially need 4E >> something that provides column and row position of characters and  H >> does not add any additional "characters" to the text file (I believe + >> that's why wordpad won't work).  Thanks.    One I liked was "EditPad" ...r  see http://www.editpadpro.com/    4 They've a Lite version, free for non-commercial use.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:44:02 -0500# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>eH Subject: RE: Replacement for NotePad or Text editor for Windows machines: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDKEDOGAAA.dallen@nist.gov>   OOPS! Wrong list!h   > -----Original Message-----* > From: Dan Allen [mailto:dallen@nist.gov]* > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 1:27 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComdJ > Subject: RE: Replacement for NotePad or Text editor for Windows machines >  >  >  >  > > -----Original Message-----I > > From: lan_group@nist.gov [mailto:lan_group@nist.gov]On Behalf Of Richi	 > > McKayH- > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:30 PMl# > > To: Multiple recipients of list H > > Subject: Replacement for NotePad or Text editor for Windows machines > >  > >  > > I > > Does anyone know of or have a text editor package for Window 2000/XP uD > > machines that is more functional than NotePad?  Especially need F > > something that provides column and row position of characters and I > > does not add any additional "characters" to the text file (I believe n, > > that's why wordpad won't work).  Thanks. > >  > > Rich > > F > 	Just about anything is more functional than Notepad! I use and like; >       P(rogrammers)F(ile)E(ditor) ==> PFE. Free and easy.t >  > 	YMMV, >  > 	Dan > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 20:29:05 GMT/ From: "Larry T." <larry-nospamx@jbmsystems.com>cH Subject: Re: Replacement for NotePad or Text editor for Windows machines0 Message-ID: <IuCdnfGMy5U0e2LcRVn-ig@comcast.com>  J I use edit pad lite, it's ok, but has some limitations like saving files. ? I'm switching to PFE based on the recomendation in this thread.d Larryx   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:59:57 -0500i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: Suggestion for VAX VMS 8.2tB Message-ID: <1107287328.98187fb2e1255848281c165c33befc91@teranews>   Wilm Boerhout wrote:G > I have seen a few hints of this allegedly new version of VAX VMS, buteH > cannot seem to find an "official" statement from HP. Can you provide a6 > pointer? I'm anxious to find out the new features...  F In the roadmap NOTES, there is mention that HP is currently evaluating+ whether or not to produce VMS 8.2 for VAX. )  F No mention of features. But one would assume that such a version wouldG be built as way to give VAX-VMS compatibility with VAX-whatever for theoD longest possible time. Hence my suggestion that the engineers should; look ahead and give VAX-VMS lots of flexibility in terms oft& interoperating with VMS in the future.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2005 16:07:13 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e' Subject: Re: Suggestion for VAX VMS 8.2l3 Message-ID: <mT+KaskZWilr@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  c In article <41ffbcd5$0$1761$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout <w3.boerhout@planet.nl> writes:e > JF Mezei wrote:sN >> Since 8.2 might be the last version of VAX VMS, I came to think about it... > H > I have seen a few hints of this allegedly new version of VAX VMS, but I > cannot seem to find an "official" statement from HP. Can you provide a u6 > pointer? I'm anxious to find out the new features...  I    The last public info I had was that 8.2 for VAX would ship next year,      or maybe not.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 23:56:28 GMT 6 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSW.Invalid># Subject: Re: VAX 4000 m500A problems8 Message-ID: <fm5001lc8erda3lvefmkq1cqlqsesvgceh@4ax.com>  D On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 22:23:18 -0500 in alt.folklore.computers, Howard Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:e  9 >In article <vtusv0lackoja5lts3dnvgu3ni659esmbg@4ax.com>,v9 > Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSW.Invalid> wrote:1 >3 >> [xpost to pdp11/vax groups] >nJ >Not a bad idea.  I pulled a few groups that don't exist on my server, or > >which don't seem terribly related.  It's a VAX, not a PDP-11.  5 alt.sys.pdp11 seem to know a lot about vax hardware.    E >I've just plugged the system in.  There's a DSSI disk in there just M' >BEGGING to be yanked!  Too damn noisy.-   -- -9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadar  F Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian[dot]Inglis{at}SystematicSW[dot]ab[dot]ca),     fake address		use address above to reply   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:23:31 -0500o% From: Howard Shubs <howard@shubs.net>t# Subject: Re: VAX 4000 m500A problemn; Message-ID: <howard-4FCF64.22233101022005@news.newsguy.com>p  8 In article <fm5001lc8erda3lvefmkq1cqlqsesvgceh@4ax.com>,8  Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSW.Invalid> wrote:  7 > alt.sys.pdp11 seem to know a lot about vax hardware.    F Newsguy doesn't see it as a newsgroup.  Neither does it see the other  alt.sys.* groups.    -- A Nobody knows Particle Man.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 23:46:30 -0500m% From: "vax, 9000" <vax9000@gmail.com>@# Subject: Re: VAX 4000 m500A problemo: Message-ID: <ctpln2$9hc$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   Howard Shubs wrote:s  : > In article <fm5001lc8erda3lvefmkq1cqlqsesvgceh@4ax.com>,: >  Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSW.Invalid> wrote: > 7 >> alt.sys.pdp11 seem to know a lot about vax hardware.0 > G > Newsguy doesn't see it as a newsgroup.  Neither does it see the other  > alt.sys.* groups.a > F right. I can't see alt.sys.pdp11 from my newserver. However, I can see vmsnet.pdp11  	 vax, 9000n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:31:05 -0600e/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> + Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3t2 Message-ID: <41FFD8F9.3050309@applied-synergy.com>   Tom Linden wrote:aD > On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 23:21:47 +0800, <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote: > 9 >> Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com> writes:- >> >>> Bendix wrote:t >> >>K >>>> I am trying to add a VAX running VMS v7.3 to a cluster with two VAX'es  >>0 >>                                      ^^^^^^^^ >> >>>> running VMS v5.5-2. >>>i >>>              ^^^^^^^^^ >> >>D >>> *Far* too much difference between the versions to be a supported? >>> configuration.  Have a look at the V7.3 Installation guide.n >> >>G >> It is, I think, to far to work. Wasn't there changes to mount in thee: >> gap that will stop you from clustering over that range. >>* > Is it possible to cluster 5.5-2 and 6.2?   Yes.   5.5-2 will cluster with 7.1.   It will not cluster with 7.3.i   I don't know about 7.2.a  D I have a cluster with VAX 5.5-2 and 6.2 and Alpha 6.1 and 7.1 nodes.   --  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------,$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:55:41 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3-B Message-ID: <1107287072.1238aacc5ed4dffb67e668887bbf9549@teranews>   John Laird wrote:jJ > Nodes running OpenVMS VAX Version 5.5--2 or earlier versions, or OpenVMSL > Alpha Version 1.0 or 1.5, cannot participate in a cluster with one or moreG > OpenVMS Version 7.2 nodes. For more information, refer to the OpenVMSF > Version 7.2 Release Notes.  F Out of curiosity, what portion of clustering changed between 5.5-2 andC 7.* that would make clustering be incompatible between 5.5 and 7.*?n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 20:16:43 GMTi3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)g+ Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3e2 Message-ID: <LsRLd.7033$0p4.6812@news.cpqcorp.net>  3 In article <41FFD8F9.3050309@applied-synergy.com>, r1 Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:r >Tom Linden wrote: ..+ >> Is it possible to cluster 5.5-2 and 6.2?S >k >Yes.  >  >5.5-2 will cluster with 7.1.o >o >It will not cluster with 7.3. >i >I don't know about 7.2. >vE >I have a cluster with VAX 5.5-2 and 6.2 and Alpha 6.1 and 7.1 nodes.-  $ Thanks, Chris, for this information.  E I strongly suggest that anyone considering doing this should read theuI information in the appropriate version(s) of the Upgrade and InstallationaC Manual regarding Mixed-Version Suppport in OpenVMS Cluster Systems.l? Note what is "warranted" and what is supported for "migration".h  E We know that what can "work" -- at least in some enviroments -- is a y" superset of what is "warranted".    D We also know that what can "work" in one environment, may or may not work in another.  F "Warranted" combinations have been tested and will be supported; otherD combinations may require you to upgrade as the "fix" to any problems you encounter.  H And, finally, be aware that even if it appears to "work", there may well6 be problems that do not become apparent for some time.   -- nJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 20:03:31 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk>e+ Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3w8 Message-ID: <rrnvv09kp800oqk7p9hpd82e8uqvj1bt4g@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 09:21:42 -0800, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  1 >On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:14:14 +0000, John Laird  o$ ><nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote: >>J >> It looks like 7.2 was about the point that 5.5-2 became too old, if not
 >> before. >>J >Well the reason I asked was because I had 6.2 clustered with 7.3, so it   >seems >that if A ~ B & B ~C -> A ~C ?_  K If you're suggesting what I think you're suggesting, that 6.2 can play withmK 5.5-2 and 7.3, so why can't they play together, the answer almost certainlykJ lies in the necessary remedial kit for 6.2 to cluster with 7.2 and up.  So* it's not quite the same 6.2 in both cases.  K This doesn't preclude the possibility that it might *appear* to work, but ItH would take the release notes at face value - rarely have VMS engineering> used a phrase like "will not work" when "unsupported" will do.   -- g5 Man with ice cubes wishes to meet woman with Scotch. h   Mail john rather than nospam...3   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 12:10:11 -0800a, From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>+ Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3a+ Message-ID: <ctonn3$re3$1@news01.intel.com>    JF Mezei wrote:e   > John Laird wrote:y > J >>Nodes running OpenVMS VAX Version 5.5--2 or earlier versions, or OpenVMSL >>Alpha Version 1.0 or 1.5, cannot participate in a cluster with one or moreG >>OpenVMS Version 7.2 nodes. For more information, refer to the OpenVMSu >>Version 7.2 Release Notes. >  > H > Out of curiosity, what portion of clustering changed between 5.5-2 andE > 7.* that would make clustering be incompatible between 5.5 and 7.*?h  : Lots of changes to the shadowing code (at the very least).  B I recall that, to our delight and surprise, minimerge (for storageC on HSC & HSJ controllers) started working in our cluster at VMS 6.21B only _after_  applying the "compatiblity" patch to both our AlphasB and VAXes.  We were told that the VAX shadowing code had differentC "ideas" about what needed to be done than the Alpha shadowing code!h= After the patches were installed, they played nicely togetherV	 for once!a   	-Keni -- t6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldw! D1C Automation VMS System Support." who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 20:22:45 GMTa# From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com>a+ Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3u: Message-ID: <pyRLd.13977$JO2.8619@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>   Dave Froble wrote:   > Bendix wrote:  > I >> I am trying to add a VAX running VMS v7.3 to a cluster with two VAX'ese >> running VMS v5.5-2. >>G >> It seems the connection manager runs into trouble. It says somethinghI >> about connection manager timeout on one of the cluster nodes, and doesi  >> a store dump on the new node.E >> I have not been able to find anything on this issue. Do I need anyp >> patches for v5.5-2 or?n >> Hope someone can help mei	 >> Bendixa >> >  > Why? > J > As far as I know, its not supported, and it's far from anything that is G > supported.  So, you might get it to seem to run, but you couldn't be o* > sure that things were Ok, so why bother. > J > Have DECnet running on all systems, and most of what a cluster provides  > is somewhat available. > ; > What's the purpose for attempting to cluster the systems?e  C Hopefully you have HP support. Get the upgrade checklist, it shows t) clearly which combinations are supported.l  E 6.2 and 7.3-2 are not supported, but some folks use it, but run into c- strange problems, and it may not always work.p  G The question is what are you trying to do. Maybe you can do it without h clustering.   D Imagine asking Microsoft to support something from the era of 5.5-2.   >    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2005 00:15:28 -0000S1 From: Preputial News <howdoes@yourweeweefeel.now>t5 Subject: ~Jfmezei, is your foreskin comfortable now?~a3 Message-ID: <V5KBOZY038385.3440740741@reece.net.au>b  	 LOL ! ! !-   http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?q=insubject:how+insubject:is+insubject:your+insubject:foreskin+author:mousy&hl=en&lr=&scoring=d&selm=32D85CF5.701C%40earthlink.net&rnum=12  % From: Mousy <suremousy@earthlink.net> 3 Subject: Jfmezei, is your foreskin comfortable now?c Date: 1997/01/128 newsgroups: alt.circumcision,sci.med,misc.kids.pregnancy  K Just wanted to ask you if your foreskin was comfortable now. You said that  K you had a condition of phimosis in your youth. How are things now? And how f old are you?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.065 ************************