0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 03 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 67      Contents: Re: %DCL-W-OKTAB again...  %DCL-W-OKTAB again... % cURL 7.13.0 for VMS has been released 8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA' Re: How active colors in KEA emulator ? 9 Re: How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences?  Is there a FAQ for this group ? # Re: Is there a FAQ for this group ?  NFS v3 client support  Re: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  Re: Official Logo  Re: Suggestion for VAX VMS 8.25 Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again.... 5 Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again.... 5 Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again.... 5 Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again.... 5 Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again.... " Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3" Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 19:38:15 +0000 (UTC)< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)" Subject: Re: %DCL-W-OKTAB again...) Message-ID: <ctra77$9rb$1@news.BelWue.DE>   Z In article <42010D0A.7040500@bigpond.com>, David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> writes:; >The real message is a success whereas the suspect one is a 6 >warning.  My other reply shows the difference between8 >f$message(261440) and exit 261440 which does change the >facility from CLI to DCL.  K Now I found at least a way to fix the problem or the cause why it happened. J But I still don't understand what this message actually means. I mean, theC webserver doesn't do any attempts to modify the DCL tables. It uses I CLI$-routines to parse a configuration file and for some reason gets this > success message and translates it into a warning. Somehow odd.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 00:25:58 +0000 7 From: David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>  Subject: %DCL-W-OKTAB again...* Message-ID: <42016F96.4070807@bigpond.com>  
 Christoph,  < The following program also generates the %DCL-W-OKTAB status4 when it is in fact trying to exit with SS$_NORMAL...   $ create oktab.bas          program oktab  <          option  type = explicit,                          &<                  constant type = integer,                  &3                  size = (integer long, real double)   )          external long function  sys$exit   7          declare long constant   array_size = 261440/16 0          declare long            condition_value&          declare long            magic  ;          map (rubbish)   long dummy_array (1 to array_size)   -          condition_value = 1     ! ss$_normal !          magic = array_size - 131 .          dummy_array (magic) = condition_value  5          call sys$exit (dummy_array(magic))      !***             end program
 $ basic oktab  $ link oktab $ run oktab 9 %DCL-W-OKTAB, command tables are already in latest format   : The argument to sys$exit is passed by the wrong mechanism.   Regards, Dave --  B David B Sneddon (dbs) VMS Systems Programmer dbsneddon@bigpond.comB Sneddo's quick guide ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/B DBS freeware   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2005 19:27:38 -0600 4 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt). Subject: cURL 7.13.0 for VMS has been released3 Message-ID: <Ed7nwIlJWm54@eisner.encompasserve.org>   A The latest version of cURL, 7.13.0, for OpenVMS has been released  and is available for download.  5 The location is http://curl.haxx.se/download.html#VMS   > This is the binary and object library distribution of the cURL> 7.13.0 release.  See the readme.vms file in the zip for usage A information.  The zip files contain executables and objects built > with OpenSSL, hpSSL and without SSL support.  The files are in architecture specific zips.   A The OpenSSL and noSSL versions are self-contained in that you can A run these programs without any other software on the system.  For A the hp SSL version, you will need to have hp's SSL V1.1-B product @ installed.  This version doesn't support hp's SSL on IA64, since( the machine I compile on didn't have it.  C  HW Type  VMS Version    Compiler Vers   SSL Library      Filenames D --------+--------------+---------------+----------------+-----------D  Alpha  | OpenVMS 7.3  | DEC C 6.5-001 | OpenSSL 0.9.7e | .*_opensslB  Alpha  | OpenVMS 7.3  | DEC C 6.5-001 | hpSSL 1.1-B    | .*_hpsslB  Alpha  | OpenVMS 7.3  | DEC C 6.5-001 | No SSL support | .*_nosslD  IA64   | OpenVMS 8.2  | HP C V7.1-011 | OpenSSL 0.9.7d | .*_opensslB  IA64   | OpenVMS 8.2  | HP C V7.1-011 | No SSL support | .*_nosslD  VAX    | OpenVMS 7.3  | DEC C 6.4-005 | OpenSSL 0.9.7e | .*_opensslB  VAX    | OpenVMS 7.3  | DEC C 6.4-005 | hpSSL 1.1-B    | .*_hpsslB  VAX    | OpenVMS 7.3  | DEC C 6.4-005 | No SSL support | .*_nossl  H For those who don't know what cURL is, here is the blurb from their main page...   ;     Curl is a command line tool for transferring files with :     URL syntax, supporting FTP, FTPS, HTTP, HTTPS, GOPHER,4     TELNET, DICT, FILE and LDAP. Curl supports HTTPS5     certificates, HTTP POST, HTTP PUT, FTP uploading, 7     kerberos, HTTP form based upload, proxies, cookies, <     user+password authentication, file transfer resume, http9     proxy tunneling and a busload of other useful tricks.   C I haven't tested all the features, since I only use the library for F HTTP(S) stuff via C programs.  It does compile and link cleanly on all the platforms outlined above.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 17:14:20 -0800  From: Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA 0 Message-ID: <HqGdnRu_sf1z55zfRVn-tA@comcast.com>   Jay Maynard wrote:; > On 2005-02-01, Carl Appellof <doctorcja@yahoo.com> wrote: . >>>We know what hollywood would do to them. :( >>K >>Hey!  Hollywood immortalized a PDP-10 opcode in the movie "TRON" (opcode    >>666, the Number of the Beast). >  > Oh? Tell me more.   > Opcodes on the PDP-10 are three octal digits, from 000 to 777.E One of which is the code to "Test Right-hand half of the accumulator, @ set the tested bits to One, and skip the next instruction if any- of the tested bits is Nonzero" = TRON AC,BITS   ' http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/opcodes.html  	-Joe    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:48:39 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: How active colors in KEA emulator ?B Message-ID: <1107369446.2f4590cacb712373a48482bad942bc2d@teranews>   Shiva MahaDeva wrote:  >     Aba_proc    0    02/01/05  >     Ads_proc    1    02/01/05  >     Abd_proc   15    02/02/05  >     Abs_proc    3    02/02/05  >     Abf_proc    0    02/01/05  > I > and show me the output with numbers in second column > 0 in red color ?   % For this lesson, you need to look at:  HELP LEX F$EDIT  HELP LEX F$ELEMENT  H You also need to find out what the escape sequence is to set the writing( to red, and how to set it back to black.     $esc[0,8] = 27 $red = esc + "whatever"  $reset = esc + "whatever"  $  $open/read infile "myfile.data"  $! $loop1: ! $	read/end=endloop1 infile record  $ ) $temp = f$edit(record,"COMPRESS,TRIM")     $field1 = F$ELEMENT(0," ",temp)  $field2 = F$ELEMENT(1," ",temp)  $field3 = F$ELEMENT(2," ",temp)  $! $IF field2 .nes. "0"   $then  $	seqbegin = red $	seqend = reset $else  $	seqbegin = "" 
 $	seqend = ""  $endif $!H $write sys$output "     ''field1'        ''seqbegin'''field2'''seqend'       ''field3'" $  $goto loop1  $! $!
 $endloop1:
 $close infile  $write sys$output "Done..."    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 22:21:38 +0100 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>B Subject: Re: How do I use terminal emulator with escape sequences?B Message-ID: <42014462$0$18568$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>    john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com wrote:   > In Unix, I can enter:  > 2 > echo "\033P\$smyterminalemulatorfile.psl \033\\" > F > In OpenVMS I have tried many variations with sys$output, but it just9 > prints to the screen and nothing happens on the client.  > Please help me.  Thank you.  >   F I call the following DCL Procedure in my login.com to define terminal H codes which can be used in my own set of utilities or called at the DCL F prompt. I found the control codes in the VTxxx Manuals that come with A the DEC video Terminals. You will find these manuals online at...    	http://vt100.net/  D When embedding these definitions in your own procedures, remember to? make the symbol definitions local to the procedure by replacing  the "==" with "="   I ----------------------------cut-here-------------------------------------   CREATE DEFINE_TERMINAL_CODES.COM: $!***The following are VTxxx screen formatting commands***7 $!   They are intended to be used with WRITE SYS$OUTPUT  $!    EXAMPLE:& $!            SAY :== write sys$output' $!            SAY ES,HOME,DW,"Hi There"  $! $!C0 Control Characters (ASCII) 6 $       SOH_VT[0,8]==1          !set terminal SOH code6 $       STX_VT[0,8]==2          !set terminal STX code6 $       ETX_VT[0,8]==3          !set terminal ETX code6 $       EOT_VT[0,8]==4          !set terminal EOT codeG $       ENQ_VT[0,8]==5          !set terminal Enquire code (answerback) 6 $       ACK_VT[0,8]==6          !set terminal ACK code6 $       BEL_VT[0,8]==7          !set terminal BEL code< $       BS_VT[0,8]==8           !set terminal Backspace codeA $       HT_VT[0,8]==9           !set terminal Horizontal Tab code ; $       LF_VT[0,8]==10          !set terminal Linefeed code ? $       VT_VT[0,8]==11          !set terminal Vertical Tab code < $       FF_VT[0,8]==12          !set terminal Form Feed codeB $       CR_VT[0,8]==13          !set terminal Carriage Return code5 $       SO_VT[0,8]==14          !set terminal SO code 5 $       SI_VT[0,8]==15          !set terminal SI code 6 $       DLE_VT[0,8]==16         !set terminal DLE code6 $       DC1_VT[0,8]==17         !set terminal DC1 code6 $       DC2_VT[0,8]==18         !set terminal DC2 code6 $       DC3_VT[0,8]==19         !set terminal DC3 code6 $       DC4_VT[0,8]==20         !set terminal DC4 code6 $       NAK_VT[0,8]==21         !set terminal NAK codeB $       SYN_VT[0,8]==22         !set terminal SYN (Control V) code6 $       ETB_VT[0,8]==23         !set terminal ETB code6 $       CAN_VT[0,8]==24         !set terminal CAN code5 $       EM_VT[0,8]==25          !set terminal EM code 6 $       SUB_VT[0,8]==26         !set terminal SUB codeF $       ESC_VT[0,8]==27         !ESCAPE code for VT100 screen commands5 $       FS_VT[0,8]==28          !set terminal FS code 5 $       GS_VT[0,8]==29          !set terminal GS code 5 $       RS_VT[0,8]==30          !set terminal RS code 5 $       US_VT[0,8]==31          !set terminal US code 8 $       SP_VT[0,8]==32          !set terminal SPace code1 $       !combining a carriage return and linefeed $ $       CRLF*VT:=="''CR_VT'''LF_VT'"+ $       BELL*VT:== "''BEL_VT'"  !rings bell  $! $!C1 Control Characters (DEC) ; $       IND*VT :== "''ESC_VT'D" !moves cursor down one line E $       NEL*VT :== "''ESC_VT'E" !moves to first position of next line F $       HTS*VT :== "''ESC_VT'H" !set horizontal tab at cursor positionH $       RI*VT :== "''ESC_VT'M"  !moves cursor up one line in same columnH $       SS2*VT :== "''ESC_VT'N" !Temporary mapping of G2 Charset into GLH $       SS3*VT :== "''ESC_VT'O" !Temporary mapping of G3 Charset into GLC $       DCS*VT :== "''ESC_VT'P" !introduces a Device Control String > $       CSI*VT :== "''ESC_VT'[" !introduces a Control Sequence: $       CST*VT :== "''ESC_VT'\" !Control String TerminatorG $       OSC*VT :== "''ESC_VT']" !introduces an Operating System Command D $       PM*VT :== "''ESC_VT'^"  !introduces a Privacy Message stringH $       APC*VT :== "''ESC_VT'_" !introduces Appl. Program Control string $!$ $!cursor movement control characters8 $       !erase screen from cursor to bottom right corner! $       EStoEND*VT :== "''CSI'0J" H $       EStoHERE*VT :== "''CSI'1J"     !erase screen from home to cursor; $       ES*VT:== "''CSI'2J"            !erase entire screen H $       ESlinetoend*VT :== "''CSI'0K"  !erase from cursor to end of lineE $       ESlinetohere*VT :== "''CSI'1K" !erase begin of line to cursor : $       ESline*VT :== "''CSI'2K"       !erase current line8 $       ONEUP*VT :==  "''CSI'1A"       !jump up one lineG $       TOP*VT:== "''CSI'H"            !moves cursor to top/left screen  $! $! $!text size control charactersE $       DHT*VT:== "''ESC_VT'#3"   !sets top half of double high chars H $       DHB*VT:== "''ESC_VT'#4"   !sets bottom half of double high charsH $       SWSH*VT :== "''ESC_VT'#5" !sets single width single height charsG $       DW*SHVT:== "''ESC_VT'#6"  !sets double wide single height chars  $!# $!text attribute control characters 7 $       BOLD*VT:== "''CSI'1m"     !sets bold characters = $       UNDER*VT:== "''CSI'4m"    !sets underlined characters ; $       BLINK*VT:== "''CSI'5m"    !sets blinking characters : $       INVERSE*VT:== "''CSI'7m"  !sets inverse characters: $       REVERSE*VT:== "''CSI'7m"  !sets inverse charactersE $       NORM*VT:== "''CSI'0m"     !sets all char attributes to normal @ $       BOLDOFF*VT :== "''CSI'22m"     !turns off bold attributeE $       UNDEROFF*VT :== "''CSI'24m"    !turns off underline attribute A $       BLINKOFF*VT :== "''CSI'25m"    !turns off blink attribute C $       INVERSEOFF*VT :== "''CSI'27m"  !turns off inverse attribute  $!& $!screen attributes control charactersE $       SMOOTH*VT:== "''CSI'?4h"               !sets smooth scrolling C $       JUMP*VT:== "''CSI'?4l"                 !sets jump scrolling E $       LIGHT*VT:== "''CSI'?5h"                !sets light background D $       DARK*VT:== "''CSI'?5l"                 !sets dark backgroundG $       FLASH*VT:== "''CSI'?5h''CSI'?5l"       !flashes light then dark G $       FLASHBACK*VT:== "''CSI'?5l''CSI'?5h"   !flashes dark then light < $       CURSOR*VT:== "''CSI'?25h"              !shows cursor< $       CURSOROFF*VT:== "''CSI'?25l"           !hides cursor $!  $!status line control charactersF $       STATUSMAIN*VT:== "''CSI'0$}" !select main display (VT3xx only)F $       STATUSLINE*VT:== "''CSI'1$}" !select status line  (VT3xx only)F $       STATUSOFF*VT:== "''CSI'0$~"  !turn off status line(VT3xx only)F $       STATUSON*VT:== "''CSI'1$~"   !turn on status line (VT3xx only)F $       STATUSHOST*VT:== "''CSI'2$~" !turn on host-writbl (VT3xx only) $!" $!local printer control characters5 $       PLOFF*VT:== "''CSI'?4i"      !print local off 4 $       PLON*VT:== "''CSI'?5i"       !print local on $!# $!terminal reset control characters F $       STRESET*VT:== "''CSI'!p"     !soft terminal reset (VT3xx only)F $       HTRESET*VT:== "''ESC_VT'c"   !hard terminal reset (VT3xx only) $!# $!***emulate a MSDOS CLS command***  $ !clear screen and home cursor ( $ ER*ASEVT :==   WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ES,TOP+ $ !clear screen, home cursor and soft reset 3 $ SRES*ETVT :==  WRITE SYS$OUTPUT STATUSOFF,STRESET + $ !clear screen, home cursor and hard reset ) $ HRES*ETVT :==  WRITE SYS$OUTPUT HTRESET  $!% $!***Regis Terminal Color Settings***  $! $!  VT340 Default Color Map 7 $!  MAP   Color       Symbol    R  G  B       H   L   S G $!   0    Black         D       0  0  0       0   0   0   Text Backgrnd 8 $!   1    Blue          B       20 20 80      0   50  608 $!   2    Red           R       80 13 13      120 46  728 $!   3    Green         G       20 80 20      240 50  608 $!   4    Magenta       M       80 20 80      60  50  608 $!   5    Cyan          C       20 80 80      300 50  608 $!   6    Yellow        Y       80 80 20      180 50  60G $!   7    Gray 50%      W       53 53 53      0   53  0   Text Foregrnd  $!A $!   8    Gray 25%      D       26 26 26      0   26  0   Reverse 8 $!   9    Blue*         B       33 33 60      0   46  298 $!   10   Red*          R       60 26 26      120 43  398 $!   11   Green*        G       33 60 33      240 46  298 $!   12   Magenta*      M       60 33 60      60  46  298 $!   13   Cyan*         C       33 60 60      300 46  298 $!   14   Yellow*       Y       60 60 33      180 46  29C $!   15   Gray 75%      W       80 80 80      0   80  0   Highlight A $!   * - These colors are less saturated than the colors 1 thru 6  $! $!' $! Now M7 = foreground  M0 = background  $! $!set dark background  $ Write sys$output dark  $!C $! The folowing combinations have bad contrast and are not defined:  $!> $!      y_g, g_y, c_w, w_c , b_d, d_b, m_b, y_w, w_y, y_r, r_y $! $!white combinations $ !blue on whiteG $       b_w*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(W),M7(B),M8(D),M15(D))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !red on white G $       r_w*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(W),M7(R),M8(D),M15(D))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !green on white G $       g_w*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(W),M7(G),M8(D),M15(D))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !magenta on white G $       m_w*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(W),M7(M),M8(D),M15(D))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !dark on whiteG $       d_w*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(W),M7(D),M8(D),M15(R))''ESC_VT'\"  $! $ !white on blueG $       w_b*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(B),M7(W),M8(W),M15(D))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !white on red G $       w_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(R),M7(W),M8(W),M15(D))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !white on green G $       w_g*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(G),M7(W),M8(D),M15(D))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !white on magenta G $       w_m*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(M),M7(W),M8(D),M15(D))''ESC_VT'\"  $! $!black (dark) combinations  $ !red on darkG $       r_d*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(D),M7(R),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !green on darkG $       g_d*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(D),M7(G),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !magenta on darkG $       m_d*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(D),M7(M),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !cyan on dark G $       c_d*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(D),M7(C),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !yellow on dark G $       y_d*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(D),M7(Y),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !white on darkG $       w_d*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(D),M7(W),M8(W),M15(R))''ESC_VT'\"  $! $ !dark on redG $       d_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(R),M7(D),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !dark on greenG $       d_g*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(G),M7(D),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !dark on magentaG $       d_m*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(M),M7(D),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !dark on cyan G $       d_c*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(C),M7(D),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !dark on yellow G $       d_y*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(Y),M7(D),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $! $ !blue combinations $ !red on blueG $       r_b*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(B),M7(R),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !green on blueG $       g_b*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(B),M7(G),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !yellow on blue G $       y_b*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(B),M7(Y),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !cyan on blue G $       c_b*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(B),M7(C),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $! $ !blue on redG $       b_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(R),M7(B),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !blue on greenG $       b_g*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(G),M7(B),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !blue on magentaG $       b_m*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(M),M7(B),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !blue on cyan G $       b_c*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(C),M7(B),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !blue on yellow G $       b_y*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(Y),M7(B),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $! $!green combinations $ !red on green G $       r_g*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(G),M7(R),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $ !green on red G $       g_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(R),M7(G),M8(W),M15(W))''ESC_VT'\"  $!* $!extra combinations with red highlighting $!cyan on black C $ c_d_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(D),M7(C),M8(W),M15(R))''ESC_VT'\"  $!cyan on black C $ d_c_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(C),M7(D),M8(W),M15(R))''ESC_VT'\"  $!cyan on blueC $ c_b_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(B),M7(C),M8(W),M15(R))''ESC_VT'\"  $!cyan on blueC $ b_c_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(C),M7(B),M8(W),M15(R))''ESC_VT'\"  $!cyan on blueC $ g_b_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(B),M7(G),M8(W),M15(R))''ESC_VT'\"  $!cyan on blueC $ b_g_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(G),M7(B),M8(W),M15(R))''ESC_VT'\"  $!blue on white C $ b_w_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(W),M7(B),M8(W),M15(R))''ESC_VT'\"  $!white on blue C $ w_b_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(B),M7(W),M8(W),M15(R))''ESC_VT'\"  $!yellow on blueC $ y_b_r*COLOR == "''ESC_VT'PpS(M0(B),M7(Y),M8(W),M15(R))''ESC_VT'\"  $!2 $!***Setting X11 DECterm Window and Icon Titles***4 $! first find node and process name for window title $ node = F$TRNLNM("SYS$NODE")  $ procname = F$PROCESS() $ title = "''node'''procname'" $!4 $! create symbols for setting window and icon titles $ ESC[0,8]==27- $ window_title == "''ESC']21;''title'''ESC'\" & $ icon_title :== 'ESC']2L;'node''ESC'\ $! $! EXAMPLE: ; $! write sys$output  window_title       !to set window tile : $! write sys$output  icon_title         !to set icon title: $! set prompt "''window_title'$ "       !to set DCL prompt $! $ EXITI ----------------------------cut-here-------------------------------------   - Note: after running the above procedure, a...    	$ SHOW SYMBOL *VT  < will display the VT symbols which have been defined for you.    D Here is an example DCL Procedure to show some of what can be done...  I ----------------------------cut-here-------------------------------------  CREATE TERM_DEMO.COM $! Terminal Control DEMO $!( $!define terminal screen control symbols
 $ ESC[0,8]=27  $ ENQ[0,8]=5 $ LF[0,8]=10 $ CR[0,8]=13 $ CSI := "''ESC'[" $ DCS := "''ESC'P" $ ES := "''ESC'[2J"  $ EStoEND := "''ESC'[0J" $ EStoHERE := "''ESC'[1J"  $ ESline := "''ESC'[2K"  $ ESlinetoend := "''ESC'[0K" $ ESlinetohere := "''ESC'[1K"  $ TOP := "''ESC'[H" ; $ SWSH := "''ESC'#5"            !Single Width Single Height - $ DW*SH := "''ESC'#6"           !Double Width 2 $ DHT := "''ESC'#3"             !Double Height Top5 $ DHB := "''ESC'#4"             !Double Height Bottom  $ NORM := "''ESC'[m" $ BOLD := "''ESC'[1m"  $ UNDER := "''ESC'[4m" $ BLINK := "''ESC'[5m" $ INVERSE := "''ESC'[7m" $ BOLDOFF := "''ESC'[22m"  $ UNDEROFF := "''ESC'[24m" $ BLINKOFF := "''ESC'[25m" $ INVERSEOFF := "''ESC'[27m" $ ONEUP :=  "''ESC'[1A"  $ NEXTLINE :=  "''LF'''CR'"  $!3 $ CURSORON:= "''CSI'?25h"             !shows cursor 3 $ CURSOROFF:= "''CSI'?25l"            !hides cursor  $! $! initialize variables  $ SAY := WRITE SYS$OUTPUT # $ ER*ASE := WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ES,TOP - $ TERM_DEVICE = f$getdvi("TT","TT_PHYDEVNAM") ( $ TERM_TYPE = f$extract(0,4,TERM_DEVICE)) $ TERM_WIDTH = f$getdvi("TT","DEVBUFSIZ") ( $ TERM_HEIGHT = f$getdvi("TT","TT_PAGE") $!# $ QSTR = "''INVERSE'Q''INVERSEOFF'" # $ CSTR = "''INVERSE'C''INVERSEOFF'"  $!  $  on control_y then goto askend $  set term/inquire  $  set term/noecho $  erase? $  say "''CSI'6;1H''CURSOROFF'" !move cursor to line 4 column 1 ' $  say "Terminal Device = ",TERM_DEVICE % $  say "Terminal Type   = ",TERM_TYPE & $  say "Terminal Width  = ",TERM_WIDTH' $  say "Terminal Height = ",TERM_HEIGHT  $!A $  say "''CSI'20;1H''CURSOROFF'" !move cursor to line 20 column 1  $  answer = "" $ askstart: 	 $   say - H "''CSI'14;32H''ESline'''BLINK'answer = """,answer,"""''NORM'''CSI'20;1H"9 $   say "''CSI'3;10H''ESline'''DW'''f$time()'''CSI'20;1H"  $   wait 00:00:00.50A $   READ /TIME_OUT=0/ERROR=askstart sys$command answer /PROMPT= - A      "''CR'''ESline'''INVERSE'Press <Enter> to Stop''INVERSEOFF'" 	 $   say - H "''CSI'14;32H''ESline'''BLINK'answer = """,answer,"""''NORM'''CSI'20;1H" $ askagain:  $   set term/echo & $   READ sys$command answer /PROMPT= -G "''CR'''ESline'''BOLD'Enter ''QSTR' to Quit, ''CSTR' to Cont.: ''NORM'"  $   set term/noecho 	 $   say - H "''CSI'14;32H''ESline'''BLINK'answer = """,answer,"""''NORM'''CSI'20;1H"> $   if f$edit(answer,"TRIM,UPCASE") .eqs. "Q" then goto askend@ $   if f$edit(answer,"TRIM,UPCASE") .eqs. "C" then goto askstart $   goto askagain 	 $ askend:  $ set term/echo 6 $ say "''CSI'22;20H" !move cursor to line 20 column 20$ $ say "''CURSORON'That's all Folks!" $ say "" $ exitI ----------------------------cut-here-------------------------------------    Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:24:05 -0500 2 From: Tom Rauschenbach <tomsusenet@tomsdomain.org>( Subject: Is there a FAQ for this group ?: Message-ID: <pan.2005.02.02.20.24.05.98266@tomsdomain.org>  . Does a FAQ for this group get posted monthly ? Is it on a W3 page anywhere ?    Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 22:23:29 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> , Subject: Re: Is there a FAQ for this group ?8 Message-ID: <nhk201hdac9k1hiogp8h22v9bu4l8iruth@4ax.com>  4 On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:24:05 -0500, Tom Rauschenbach" <tomsusenet@tomsdomain.org> wrote:  / >Does a FAQ for this group get posted monthly ?  >Is it on a W3 page anywhere ?   www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq/  L Google search for "comp.os.vms faq" brings up a slightly out-of-date versionL at www.faqs.org - the definitive version is hosted by HP as it is maintained< by an OpenVMS engineering stalwart (Stephen "Hoff" Hoffman).   --  0 Don't steal.  The government hates competition.    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:58:48 -0800 + From: Andrew Burghardt <abob@speakeasy.net>  Subject: NFS v3 client support2 Message-ID: <hLadnY71D_oSDpzfRVn-jw@speakeasy.net>   Hi.   G Has support for nfsv3 been added to the TCPIP nfs client? I noticed it  E has been added to the server since v5.1 or so, but I haven't found a  H recent definitive answer about the client. I have TCPIP v5.4 ECO 1 on a H DS20E from which I want to send large image files (a select few being > < 4GB) off to a RAID rack attached to a Proliant Linux server.   Cheers.    Andrew   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2005 15:07:32 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>  Subject: Re: Official Logo. Message-ID: <mddbrb267zv.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  6 Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:  " > The Cheshire Cat was a good one.  O Of course, Chester was *not* the Cheshire Cat.  There was a specific difference O between the Disney character that inspired Chester and the VAX mascot himself-- N DECUS had to negotiate with the Disney folks to be able to use Chester at all,; and the difference was required by the licensing agreement.   O Then the 36-bit folks misappropriated Chester for the 20th and 25th anniversary K T-shirts ("I ain't afraid of no VAX!" and "I ain't afraid to take RISCs!"). 
 Poor Betsy...   7 So wasn't Chester a DECUS thing rather than a DEC logo?    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2005 15:11:02 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>  Subject: Re: Official Logo. Message-ID: <mdd8y6667u1.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  8 "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> writes:  5 > "DeanW" <dean.woodward@gmail.com> wrote in message  3 > news:3f119ada05020123307d1ed8d5@mail.gmail.com...   4 >> Somehow, Ivanhoe's uprooted Oak seems appropriate  0 > OK I never read Ivanhoe.  What does this mean?  L At a tourney at which he was riding in disguise, his shield bore an uprooted' oak tree and declared him disinherited.    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Feb 2005 19:34:06 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>  Subject: Re: Official Logo. Message-ID: <mddvf9axz0h.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  5 Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:   0 > Of course, Chester was *not* the Cheshire Cat.  9 > So wasn't Chester a DECUS thing rather than a DEC logo?   ' M-x Replace String$chester$albert<CRLF>    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 21:22:07 -0500 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>' Subject: Re: Suggestion for VAX VMS 8.2 - Message-ID: <4201447F.22408.211368@localhost>   . On 2 Feb 2005 at 13:39, Keith Cayemberg wrote:H > I think SRI and all those CHARON-VAX Resellers out there should now beA > mobilizing their customers and talking directly to HP about the G > importance of having at a long-supported OpenVMS V8.2 base level (and F > continuing new releases) for the VAX as an important market enhancerH > and as a comfortable bridge(s) to the Itanium (or other future OpenVMS > platforms).   D I already beat HP up at the Partners meeting in November (or was it  December?) in Nashua, NH.   D Of course, 80% of my customers are running V5.5, so it's not really  important...  2 [Quayle Consulting Inc., a CHARON-VAX reseller...]
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:11:39 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> > Subject: Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again....B Message-ID: <1107370825.14fd90f7d169084fd244d61ef659cbb3@teranews>   David Mathog wrote: I > run major companies, as Carly and Curly are.)  HP got in bed with Intel H > on Itanium, spent ungodly sums on developing it, scuttled all of theirG > other processors in its favor BEFORE it was available to replace them   9 Actually you can blame DEC for this.. (Ironic isn't it ?)   H I think that Digital really scared the market when it launched Alpha. HPD probably figured there was no way it could compete against Alpha andL figured the only way would be to team up with Intel to produce a competitor.  G So, HP launches a project with Intel to compete against Alpha, and that E scared the bejesus out of Digital which was already in the process of H self destructing (to a point where DEC had announced it woudl post Tru64? to IA64 since at that time, IA64 was to replace the 8086 as the  "industry standard".  A From a management point of view, up to that point, HP's decisions H couldn't be faulted. However, as soon as it became clear that IA64 was aC dog (if DEC's engineers could write white papers about how IA64 was H flawed in its whole architecture, then Shirley  HP would have had accessH to this information too), well, that is when the problem really started.  H Should HP have cancelled IA64 when it became clear this was a mistake of EPIC proportions ?    G What I find interesting is that meanwhile, despite the fact that it was E slated for auto-destruct, PA-Risc was able to keep up with the Jones' 7 and remain a viable competitive platform in the market.   D So HP never really scuttled Pa-Risc prematurely. In fact, they still) have one or two Pa-Riscs iterations left.     G > Their PC business was a big loser, so naturally they bought the other B > big loser (Compaq) and effectively paid for it by giving partialJ > ownership in the ink/printer business to the former Compaq shareholders.  G The goal was to eliminate a competitor and keep the competitor's market > share. But it looks like Compaq's market share was more evenlyE distributed amongts the remaining players instead of all going to HP.   E And potentially another goal was to scuttle Alpha by buying Digital's D leftovers. And by moving VMS and Tandem to that IA64 thing, it would7 help save that chip which was already declared a loser.r  < >   In other words, HP shareholders were completely screwed,  H Not the Deutche bank unit which got much business in exchange for voting for Carly's folly.  ? > On the plus side they now sell ipods. One suspects that ApplepB > makes more on each HP ipod sold than does HP.  Have they learned! > _nothing_ from the PC market???h  D I am ambivalent on HP selling iPods. I personally woudln't buy an HPH one. I'd rather have the original. But for HP, it does allow it to enterH that market with the "industry standard" music player. Carly sleeps wityE the most popular. She sleeps with Jobs for the music, she sleeps withsD Gates for the most popular OS, she Sleeps with Ottelini for the mostH popular chip. And sleeping with each of those requires that in exchange,K she does them a few favours (like kill Alpha and giv the remains to Intel).-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:35:58 GMT ( From: Chris Quayle <syseng@engsys.co.uk>> Subject: Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again...., Message-ID: <42011D44.4EFD83BB@engsys.co.uk>   David Mathog wrote:s >  > Tom Linden wrote:RI > > On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:04:06 -0500, John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:a > >e >  > >>M > >> Of course, if every consumer rushed out to buy an Itanic server to storea > >> their recipies on.......t > >> > >>N > > I'd be curious to see a breakdown of the $3b Jenkins said in his interview= > > was being committed to Itanium over the next three years.t > >. > >> > ? > HP's strategy is so pathetically bad it's amazing that any ofnI > the people involved are still allowed to work.  (Let alone permitted to,I > run major companies, as Carly and Curly are.)  HP got in bed with Intel H > on Itanium, spent ungodly sums on developing it, scuttled all of theirG > other processors in its favor BEFORE it was available to replace themdJ > (PA-RISC, Alpha as a prelude to the takeover) and now finds that, lo andD > behold, HP is effectively the only company that will use the chip.H > Itanium has an unmeasurably small market share, and costs every bit asJ > much, if not more, than the processors it replaced (sic).  Along the way: > they crippled the VMS market, destroyed the Tru64 marketG > (how many of those folks moved to HPUX, 1% maybe???), hobbled Tandem,c0 > and did who knows what damage to HPUX and MPE. > G > Their PC business was a big loser, so naturally they bought the other%B > big loser (Compaq) and effectively paid for it by giving partialJ > ownership in the ink/printer business to the former Compaq shareholders.< >   In other words, HP shareholders were completely screwed,= > going from 100% ownership of the only functional part of HP : > to 66% (or whatever it turned out to be.) In return they< > ended up owning shares in a PC company that somehow wasn't> > the sum of its pieces and still doesn't make any real money.D > (As an aside, I also resent that now the local computer megastoresD > sell Compaq and HP machines as if they were somehow different from: > each other - faux competition is not good for a market.) > 6 > HP also got SAP'd.  Showing not only that they can't> > manage themselves but that any potential client should thinkA > very long and very hard before letting HP touch related aspectss > of their own business. > E > ROI for all of this?  Technology and Engineering talent squandered.d > Grrr.  Don't get me started. > ? > On the plus side they now sell ipods. One suspects that AppleiB > makes more on each HP ipod sold than does HP.  Have they learned! > _nothing_ from the PC market???/ > = > All in all IBM, Dell and even Sun could hardly have dreamed1 > of a less worthy competitor. > 2 > Carly's new version of the "HP Way" is a synonym > for "Don't do it this way."e > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog& > sideways:  ude dot hceltac at gohtam   What did you have:  H Digital: One of the best innovators and contributors to standards in theD business, with a strong engineering and attention to detail culture,F which encouraged pursuit of excellence and were profitable. The worldsH fastest processor families, with at least 3 industrial strength o/s's to- choose from and a whole raft of applications.h  F Compaq: A good solid PC company, however much it may be fashionable toG knock them. Look inside an AP400 series workstation for example - everyrF bit as well engineered as hardware from Digital or anyone else and hadF one of the best support (drivers, docs etc) websites in the business.   E HP: Best known originally for their test gear, still some of the mostdD leading edge in the world, now spun off. The remainder was basicallyD just a printer company and 2nd rate player in the computer business.   What have you now:  H A printer and consumer electronics (ipod anyone ?) business and 2nd rateE player in the computer business, with the addition of a underwhelmingMF cpu that is too power hungry, too expensive, that has no applications,D that no one wants to buy and even after billions of $ investment can# only just about keep up with Alpha.   C So, over the past 5 years or so, we have witnessed the decimation aoH large of the US quality computer business and all because of shareholderE greed, inept management and the inability to lose face in the face of F overwhelming evidence that the chosen path is a disaster. The drama isH still playing, who knows where it will end. Dammit, Osama could not have wished for a better outcome.  = My guess is that I will still be programming at my 5 year oldC8 Alphastation or similar long after the Itanic is dead...   Chrisa   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Feb 2005 19:40:56 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)> Subject: Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again...., Message-ID: <36com7F50v7klU1@individual.net>  , In article <42011D44.4EFD83BB@engsys.co.uk>,+ 	Chris Quayle <syseng@engsys.co.uk> writes:n > ? > My guess is that I will still be programming at my 5 year old-: > Alphastation or similar long after the Itanic is dead... >   @ Well, I've said it before but this looks like a good time to say= it again.  I'll still be programming at my PDP-11's and VAXeno# long after the Itanic is dead.  :-)n   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:06:18 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e> Subject: Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again...., Message-ID: <9MqdnSpc79Amr5zfRVn-jw@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > David Mathog wrote:pD >> run major companies, as Carly and Curly are.)  HP got in bed withF >> Intel on Itanium, spent ungodly sums on developing it, scuttled allD >> of their other processors in its favor BEFORE it was available to >> replace them5 >a; > Actually you can blame DEC for this.. (Ironic isn't it ?)  > G > I think that Digital really scared the market when it launched Alpha._E > HP probably figured there was no way it could compete against AlphacF > and figured the only way would be to team up with Intel to produce a
 > competitor.e >oD > So, HP launches a project with Intel to compete against Alpha, andA > that scared the bejesus out of Digital which was already in then > process ofD > self destructing (to a point where DEC had announced it woudl post > Tru64=A > to IA64 since at that time, IA64 was to replace the 8086 as thel > "industry standard". >1C > From a management point of view, up to that point, HP's decisionsMD > couldn't be faulted. However, as soon as it became clear that IA64G > was a dog (if DEC's engineers could write white papers about how IA64" > waseC > flawed in its whole architecture, then Shirley  HP would have hade > accessA > to this information too), well, that is when the problem really'
 > started. >'G > Should HP have cancelled IA64 when it became clear this was a mistake  > of EPIC proportions ?. > E > What I find interesting is that meanwhile, despite the fact that it0D > was slated for auto-destruct, PA-Risc was able to keep up with the > Jones'9 > and remain a viable competitive platform in the market.4 >$F > So HP never really scuttled Pa-Risc prematurely. In fact, they still+ > have one or two Pa-Riscs iterations left.c >" >3H >> Their PC business was a big loser, so naturally they bought the otherC >> big loser (Compaq) and effectively paid for it by giving partialn= >> ownership in the ink/printer business to the former Compaq  >> shareholders. >oB > The goal was to eliminate a competitor and keep the competitor'sG > market share. But it looks like Compaq's market share was more evenlyoG > distributed amongts the remaining players instead of all going to HP.  >mG > And potentially another goal was to scuttle Alpha by buying Digital's F > leftovers. And by moving VMS and Tandem to that IA64 thing, it would9 > help save that chip which was already declared a loser.n > = >>   In other words, HP shareholders were completely screwed,- >-C > Not the Deutche bank unit which got much business in exchange forT > voting for Carly's folly.  >m@ >> On the plus side they now sell ipods. One suspects that AppleC >> makes more on each HP ipod sold than does HP.  Have they learned!" >> _nothing_ from the PC market??? > F > I am ambivalent on HP selling iPods. I personally woudln't buy an HPD > one. I'd rather have the original. But for HP, it does allow it toD > enter that market with the "industry standard" music player. CarlyG > sleeps wity the most popular. She sleeps with Jobs for the music, she 
 > sleeps withrF > Gates for the most popular OS, she Sleeps with Ottelini for the most@ > popular chip. And sleeping with each of those requires that inD > exchange, she does them a few favours (like kill Alpha and giv the > remains to Intel).    F You almost make it sound like the behaviour of a pimp and his stable -F handing out small change 'walking around' money in return for the pimp( getting the lion's share of the profits.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:07:37 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> > Subject: Re: There goes the volume market. Remind me again...., Message-ID: <42016B49.7040706@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:1    I > The goal was to eliminate a competitor and keep the competitor's market @ > share. But it looks like Compaq's market share was more evenlyG > distributed amongts the remaining players instead of all going to HP.8  % Has this ever worked?  With anything?   M I'd like to say that Compaq didn't have customers, they had sales.  But I've  P talked to too many people, in the past, the had good things to say about Compaq  gear, so there's more to it.  M So say that there is a group called "Compaq Customers".  They're not all the aG same.  Some wouldn't consider anything else, some are on the edge, and  C everywhere in between.  So, what happens when you buy their vendor?   Q Some will have nothing to do with you, since you destroyed their prefered vendor.s  Q Some who were on the edge now fall over the edge and shop around, maybe staying,   maybe leaving.  > Some maybe didn't like you before, and now like you even less.  N So, the goal might to kill the compitition, but you also help the rest of the L competition, perhaps more than you help yourself.  A net loss, so why do it?   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:44:32 -0500o' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>T+ Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3 , Message-ID: <42011F90.8040205@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:i   > Charlie Hammond wrote: > K >>Here is an example the will illustrate how this implication may not work:  >>* >>    John loves Mary and Mary loves Bill.+ >>    Does this imply that John loves Bill?o >> > F > It does imply that Bill will get John's diseases though (due to MSCPJ > ensuring that they are transfered between nodes in this 3 node cluster).    . Not so, it doesn't imply that Mary loves John.    H > But this still doesn't explain what has changed in the SCS protocol to' > cause 5.5-2 not to interact with 7.2.o    O If it's a basic incompatibility, then no clustering can happen.  IF the basics gN are the same, then you may be able to form a cluster, but the devil is in the T details of what will work, and what will not work.  I don't know the answer to that.    I > Someone mentioned the volume shadowing code. Fine. But if you don't use=H > volume shadowing, would changes to it affect your ability to cluster ? >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:44:30 GMTC3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)e+ Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3 2 Message-ID: <y4aMd.7100$Fm5.2187@news.cpqcorp.net>  C In article <1107368501.2cf27fdad857b96f52402ddbbccb3a77@teranews>, s/ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   G >But this still doesn't explain what has changed in the SCS protocol to & >cause 5.5-2 not to interact with 7.2. >lH >Someone mentioned the volume shadowing code. Fine. But if you don't useG >volume shadowing, would changes to it affect your ability to cluster ?d  7 As has been said repeatdly, we have not tested this andt- do not know whether it will or will not work.o   -- aJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:27:36 GMT + From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>T+ Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3e: Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0502021121550.504@jaipur.local>  H I also remember in the V6 timeframe that there were some changes to how  MOUNT worked as well.F  J I see from a developer's perspecitve since that's what I do for a living. G I'm going to guess there were lots of little changes to how clustering o worked over the years.  1 Here's a hypothetical situation that may be true:o  G Your requirement in 6.2 is that it clusters with 5.5-2.  So you put in n code to handle that in 6.2.'  E Later you're developing 7.2 and you want to change protocols for new hK functionality.  But the 5.5 support code is in the way.  So you get rid of lE it or make changes such that it doesn't work any more.  Or you don't hH update the compatibility code since it would take too long.  But that's ; okay because they aren't required to be compatible anymore.   G I'm sure clustering hasn't been static.  The 64-bit and Galaxy changes TI alone could require changing some cluster protocols.  Software engineers SI program to meet the requirements.  If there is no requirement to cluster V? 8.2 and 5.5-2 then they aren't going to be thinking about that TG compatibility when they make changes.  And lots of little things could r break.  # On Wed, 2 Feb 2005, JF Mezei wrote:' > Charlie Hammond wrote:L >> Here is an example the will illustrate how this implication may not work: >>+ >>     John loves Mary and Mary loves Bill.', >>     Does this imply that John loves Bill? > F > It does imply that Bill will get John's diseases though (due to MSCPJ > ensuring that they are transfered between nodes in this 3 node cluster). >AH > But this still doesn't explain what has changed in the SCS protocol to' > cause 5.5-2 not to interact with 7.2.  >TI > Someone mentioned the volume shadowing code. Fine. But if you don't use=H > volume shadowing, would changes to it affect your ability to cluster ? >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 16:05:30 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>0+ Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3 B Message-ID: <1107377649.845d8a4bc24513ad7ceab144aa41c15d@teranews>   Charlie Hammond wrote:9 > As has been said repeatdly, we have not tested this and / > do not know whether it will or will not work.   H Hey, we know it hasn't been tested. We know it isn't supported. But thatE still doesn't prevent one from wanting to know about the evolution ofrD the clustering protocol over time which made 5.5-2 incompatible with newer releases.   F Consider that for the first time in VMS' history, we are contemplatingG the "maturing" of one version of VMS (VAX) possibly at 8.2, possibly at F 7.3.  This means that the gap betwene VAX and Alpha will grow far more now than in the past.   B The question now becomes: Should engineers be tasked to design newC clustering software to be more flexible and versatile, allowing new8E functionality while preserving connectivity with older (and hopefullyh other systems ?)  J Or will HP just kill VMS clustering and have customer get Veritas on VMS ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:00:00 -0600t/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> + Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3_, Message-ID: <36cta8F51ahpiU1@individual.net>   John Laird wrote:o  J > On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 09:21:42 -0800, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote: >  > 2 >>On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:14:14 +0000, John Laird  % >><nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote:5 >>J >>>It looks like 7.2 was about the point that 5.5-2 became too old, if not
 >>>before. >>>) >>K >>Well the reason I asked was because I had 6.2 clustered with 7.3, so it  ) >>seems5  >>that if A ~ B & B ~C -> A ~C ? >  > M > If you're suggesting what I think you're suggesting, that 6.2 can play witheM > 5.5-2 and 7.3, so why can't they play together, the answer almost certainly\L > lies in the necessary remedial kit for 6.2 to cluster with 7.2 and up.  So, > it's not quite the same 6.2 in both cases. > M > This doesn't preclude the possibility that it might *appear* to work, but ItJ > would take the release notes at face value - rarely have VMS engineering@ > used a phrase like "will not work" when "unsupported" will do.  I  From what I understand, when a node tries to join a cluster, a protocol  H is negotiated.  If the other nodes can talk the same protocol, the node  is allowed to join.   H Doing a quick check with SHOW CLUSTER, I see that VAX 5.5-2 is protocol ; 23, Alpha 6.1 is protocol 24, and Alpha 7.1 is protocol 26.M  H So, if 7.2 dropped support for protocol 23 (This is pure supposition on E my part), it would become impossible for 7.2 to cluster with a 5.5-2 _H node, even though it can cluster with a node that can also cluster with  5.5-2.  H This is kind of like shareable image version numbers.  They protect you B from running combinations which may cause problems, but they also F prevent you from running combinations which would have worked because ' you don't use the problematic features.\   -- dG -----------------------------------------------------------------------)$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 23:33:19 GMTM2 From: Gib Copeland <copeland@jenni.path.uiowa.edu>+ Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3), Message-ID: <3rdMd.45086$eT5.3918@attbi_s51>   JF Mezei wrote:P > Charlie Hammond wrote: > K >>Here is an example the will illustrate how this implication may not work:M >>* >>    John loves Mary and Mary loves Bill.+ >>    Does this imply that John loves Bill?M >  > F > It does imply that Bill will get John's diseases though (due to MSCPJ > ensuring that they are transfered between nodes in this 3 node cluster). > H > But this still doesn't explain what has changed in the SCS protocol to' > cause 5.5-2 not to interact with 7.2.) > I > Someone mentioned the volume shadowing code. Fine. But if you don't usePH > volume shadowing, would changes to it affect your ability to cluster ?  C I'd guess nothing has changed in SCS that would prevent you getting)F a basic cluster formed.  But, SCS isn't the only thing that determinesI whether various instances of VMS play well together in a cluster.  If youhI don't shadow, fine.  If you don't use the queue manager, fine.  If you're5F not worried that changes to the lock manager, XQP or RMS might corrupt8 your disks, fine.  May work for you, just not supported.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:40:19 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>(+ Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3_B Message-ID: <1107390538.a5ed06eadcac332b2634b5238a32e8da@teranews>   Gib Copeland wrote:OH > a basic cluster formed.  But, SCS isn't the only thing that determinesK > whether various instances of VMS play well together in a cluster.  If youtK > don't shadow, fine.  If you don't use the queue manager, fine.  If you're\H > not worried that changes to the lock manager, XQP or RMS might corrupt: > your disks, fine.  May work for you, just not supported.  # OK, let me reformulate my question:o  B Does the software preemtively prevent cluster formation because ofG version number, or does it allow any version to attempt to cluster with C failure occuring because someone tried to do something that was nowE incompatible ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 16:59:05 -0800e, From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>+ Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3 + Message-ID: <ctrt0q$au4$1@news01.intel.com>_   JF Mezei wrote:    [...]r% > OK, let me reformulate my question:- > D > Does the software preemtively prevent cluster formation because ofI > version number, or does it allow any version to attempt to cluster withyE > failure occuring because someone tried to do something that was nowe > incompatible ?  > I seem to recall "preemtively".  My memory could be wrong, but= I do remember seeing messages to the effect of, "incompatibler< versions", while a booting system tried to join a cluster...   	-Ken[ -- 26 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield=! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 01:16:40 +0000[7 From: David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> + Subject: Re: vaxcluster vms v5.5-2 and v7.3'* Message-ID: <42017B78.6050205@bigpond.com>  # Ken Fairfield mentioned in passing:p > JF Mezei wrote:4 >  > [...]  > & >> OK, let me reformulate my question: >>E >> Does the software preemtively prevent cluster formation because of J >> version number, or does it allow any version to attempt to cluster withF >> failure occuring because someone tried to do something that was now >> incompatible ?E >  > @ > I seem to recall "preemtively".  My memory could be wrong, but? > I do remember seeing messages to the effect of, "incompatible!> > versions", while a booting system tried to join a cluster... > 
 >     -Ken  8 One would expect it to be pre-emptive to ensure the data: integrity of the systems involved.  Isn't that what VMS is
 all about?   Regards, Dave -- HB David B Sneddon (dbs) VMS Systems Programmer dbsneddon@bigpond.comB Sneddo's quick guide ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/B DBS freeware   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.067 ************************