0 INFO-VAX	Sun, 06 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 74      Contents:! Re: Curly soon to be out of a job ! Re: Curly soon to be out of a job ! Re: Curly soon to be out of a job ! Re: Curly soon to be out of a job ! Re: Curly soon to be out of a job ! Re: Curly soon to be out of a job ' Re: DE500, Decnet, VMS 6.2 on Alpha 800  Re: DVE and maximum file count( Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS( Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS( Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS Re: php.ini options in MOD_PHP5 Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM 3 Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation? 7 Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation? 7 Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation? 7 Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation?  [ANN] Lucane for OpenVMS  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:59:00 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)* Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job6 Message-ID: <00A3EF80.45513697@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <G7ydnU3VC-695pjfRVn-tQ@metrocastcablevision.com>, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:- >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  >  >... > J >> I think the problem isn't jokes about Carly's competence, so much.  YouN >> wouldn't care about Carly's hairstyle if you thought she was a good CEO, soA >> it seems like cracks about her hairstyle aren't really earned.  >>  J >> I hold no brief for Carly's competence, or for her participation in theN >> discussion of the traditional HP Way.  I think it's absolutely fine to slam  I Aargh, by the way.  My brain said "dissection" and I see my fingers typed 
 "discussion."   M >> her for her job performance.  But I think I detect a strain of misogyny in N >> some of the comments about her that makes me kind of nervous, as though theN >> problem weren't that she's a bad CEO but that she's a woman trying to be a O >> CEO.  I'm not completely sure that's what's going on, which is why I haven't 7 >> spoken up before.  But it looks a little suspicious.  >>  Q >> (I've seen this stuff from you and sometimes from "John Smith."  Without doing P >> a literature review, I don't recall Bill Todd saying anything misogynist in a, >> considerable volume of ranking on Carly.) > & >Well, since you brought me into it...  K (I hope I didn't give the impression of claiming you agreed with me; I was  F using your example to show that I didn't think beating up on Carly wasN _inherently_ misogynistic, just as I don't think beating up on Condoleeza Rice& is inherently racist or misogynistic.)   > D >Though I was not entirely comfortable with John's comment, I could M >imagine having said something similar myself if in the proper frame of mind.  > G >It would have been because I suspect Carly of having largely gotten a  F >free ride because of her sex:  national public exposure as Fortune's E >'most influential businesswoman' (or whatever she was until getting  J >dethroned recently), plus considerable slack from people who either felt H >that a woman deserved some or were loath to risk being considered male I >chauvinists if they subjected her to the kind of criticism she deserved.  > D >Now, *some* such consideration may in other cases be reasonable as F >compensation for the very real additional hurdles which a woman must G >still clear in order to reach the top.  But once she's gotten there I  I >don't see them as being appropriate any more:  CEOs should be judged on  H >their performance, and hers has been execrable while receiving nothing " >like the examination it deserves.   No argument so far.   H >And to all appearances she has no reluctance to take advantage of such D >unearned forbearance.  Now, one could argue that using any and all H >advantages is her *obligation* as a CEO, and I'd find such an argument G >at least partly persuasive.  But I also think it makes gender-related   >attacks fair game in return.   G And there I'm not with you - not that you need me to be, to be sure.  I F don't think being a woman should give her a free pass, but I think sheJ should be slammed solely on performance/competence, not on being a woman. & Her haircut is neither here nor there.  H (In addition to being wrong, I think this kind of argument is tacticallyI weak.  It enables people to dismiss the argument about competence because ; it's wrapped in what seems to be a complaint about gender.)    -- Alan    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 11:00:34 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)* Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job6 Message-ID: <00A3EF80.7DD669F1@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  r In article <1107658627.0a142c897ac32b3d0151a4ba98ffa1f5@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >Bill Todd wrote: I >> advantages is her *obligation* as a CEO, and I'd find such an argument H >> at least partly persuasive.  But I also think it makes gender-related >> attacks fair game in return.  > G >Why has the dumb blonde been staring at the can of frozen orange juice  >for over half an hour ? >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > % >Because it says "CONCENTRATE "on it.  >  >--- > B >Today, at the supermarket, there were USA magazines talking aboutH >Jenifer Aniston and Brad Pitt.  The one on the bottom proclaimed on itsD >cover "Brad fights to get Jen back". The one just above it had "Jen >fights to get Brad back".   > H >How is one, outside the USA, supposed to know that americans don't findA >t acceptable to joke about dating when  US exports such as those 4 >supermarket magazines talk about nothing but that ?  ! Was somebody joking about dating?    >  >----- >  > E >A blonde sits down in first class section of an aircraft. The flight G >attendants, upon checking her ticket, find out she should be seated in I >coach. They try to explain to her that she is in the wrong seat, but she E >refuses to move. So the FAs call the captain. Captain whispers a few B >words to her, and then she runs to the coach section. FAs ask theH >captain "how did you do this ?". Captain responds "Simple, I am marriedG >to a blonde, so I know how to handle those cases. I just told her that B >the first class section wasn't going to new york, it was going to; >Cleveland, so she moved to the section going to new york".  >  >--- > O >Are dumb blonde jokes now off limits because the CEO of HP is a blonde ???????   M No, just off-topic.  (And say what you will about the CEO of HP, she's hardly  dumb.)   -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 09:04:18 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>* Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job= Message-ID: <L9adnUfMBLx5vpvfRVn-ow@metrocastcablevision.com>   , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:j > In article <G7ydnU3VC-695pjfRVn-tQ@metrocastcablevision.com>, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:   ...   D   to all appearances she has no reluctance to take advantage of suchE >>unearned forbearance.  Now, one could argue that using any and all  I >>advantages is her *obligation* as a CEO, and I'd find such an argument  H >>at least partly persuasive.  But I also think it makes gender-related  >>attacks fair game in return. >  > F > And there I'm not with you - not that you need me to be, to be sure.  $ Indeed - we simply seem to disagree.      IH > don't think being a woman should give her a free pass, but I think sheK > should be slammed solely on performance/competence, not on being a woman.   I The difficulty arises when, regardless of what you think ought to be the  D case, being a woman *does* give her a free pass.  The question then 1 becomes, what's the appropriate response to that?   C If the former didn't apply (and if she did not take active, though  E subtle, advantage of it), I'd agree that the latter should be out of  1 bounds.  Given the actual circumstances, I don't.    - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 11:31:28 -0500) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> * Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job7 Message-ID: <DDrNd.218$Ub4.61413@news20.bellglobal.com>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 7 news:G7ydnU3VC-695pjfRVn-tQ@metrocastcablevision.com...  >  [...snip...] > ' > Well, since you brought me into it...  > L > Though I was not entirely comfortable with John's comment, I could imagineF > having said something similar myself if in the proper frame of mind. > L > It would have been because I suspect Carly of having largely gotten a freeG > ride because of her sex:  national public exposure as Fortune's 'most I > influential businesswoman' (or whatever she was until getting dethroned G > recently), plus considerable slack from people who either felt that a A > woman deserved some or were loath to risk being considered male J > chauvinists if they subjected her to the kind of criticism she deserved. >   K Please remember that Cappellas made bad decisions from the point of view of 1 this news group so sex has nothing to do with it.   F IMHO the major problem with modern business is letting accountants andC lawyers running things rather than technical people do it with some F financial and legal advisors. Take a look around and see the currently  successful high tech businesses:  & Bill Gates has not let go of Microsoft& Larry Ellison has not let go of Oracle$ Mike Lazaridis has not let go of RIM  L On the flip side, Lotus seemd to go down hill right after Mitch Kapor handedI over control of it over to a financial guy (whose name I have forgotten).   L No one has a crystal ball but I keep wondering what would have happed to DECH if Ken Olsen had groomed a technical guy to be his successor rather thanH being forced to resign and then having the board replace him with RobertG Palmer. Like Microsoft, DEC was the goose that laid the golden eggs but E because of his age, Ken Olsen just couldn't hang in there any longer.   G Now I am not so naive as to think that technical people are immune from L causing the failure of a businesses. Let's remember that electrical engineerI John Roth was primarily responsible for the destruction of Nortel. But on H the whole one thing is clear to me: "technical people have a passion forJ technology while MBAs and accountants only have a passion for money". ThisD is one possible explanation for how DEC/Compaq/HP degenerated into aK purveyor of "printer cartridges". The MBAs just don't give a damn and never  will.   F p.s. as an aside, we hear disparaging terms like "snake oil salesmen",I "carpet baggers", etc. I can't help feel that 100 years from now, people   will* have the same opinion of MBAs and/or CEOs.  ! *** just my opinion of things ***   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:50:54 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>* Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job= Message-ID: <GLCdncptTqOcxJvfRVn-pw@metrocastcablevision.com>    Neil Rieck wrote: 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 9 > news:G7ydnU3VC-695pjfRVn-tQ@metrocastcablevision.com...  >  > [...snip...] > ' >>Well, since you brought me into it...  >>L >>Though I was not entirely comfortable with John's comment, I could imagineF >>having said something similar myself if in the proper frame of mind. >>L >>It would have been because I suspect Carly of having largely gotten a freeG >>ride because of her sex:  national public exposure as Fortune's 'most I >>influential businesswoman' (or whatever she was until getting dethroned G >>recently), plus considerable slack from people who either felt that a A >>woman deserved some or were loath to risk being considered male J >>chauvinists if they subjected her to the kind of criticism she deserved. >> >  > M > Please remember that Cappellas made bad decisions from the point of view of 3 > this news group so sex has nothing to do with it.   F Au contraire:  while it's certainly true that females have no obvious I edge one way or the other when it comes to incompetence, in Carly's case  A sex has quite a bit to do with the subject under discussion here.    - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 12:57:56 -0500) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> * Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a job7 Message-ID: <GUsNd.339$504.51694@news20.bellglobal.com>   6 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 7 news:GLCdncptTqOcxJvfRVn-pw@metrocastcablevision.com...  > Neil Rieck wrote: 8 >> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message: >> news:G7ydnU3VC-695pjfRVn-tQ@metrocastcablevision.com... >> [...snip...] >>L >> Please remember that Cappellas made bad decisions from the point of view  >> of 4 >> this news group so sex has nothing to do with it. > M > Au contraire:  while it's certainly true that females have no obvious edge  J > one way or the other when it comes to incompetence, in Carly's case sex ? > has quite a bit to do with the subject under discussion here.  >  > - bill   How so?    Neil   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 14:46:09 +0200 4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: DE500, Decnet, VMS 6.2 on Alpha 800& Message-ID: <42062DB1.320BDFC1@hp.com>   Roy Osborn wrote:  > G > I am trying to get DECnet up on a AlphaServer 800 running ancient VMS  > 6.2-1H3 with SRM v.5.6-16  >  > I have installed ECO's:  >     ALPCPU0d05_062 >     ALPCPU1A02_062 >     ALPCPU1B03_062M >     but not ALPLAN05_062 as it requires TCP/IP 4.2, which I don't have yet.                ^^^^^^^^^^^^  4 i.  ALPLAN05_062 has been superseded by ALPLAN06_062H ii. Looking at the release notes for ALPLAN06_062 on http://itrc.hp.com/D I found no requirement for any version of UCX or TCPIP. Do take intoH consideration that UCX V4.2 is the earliest version supported on OpenVMS% V6.2 after 1999, and that with ECO 5.    Mike >    --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2005 07:56:22 -0800 $ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org>' Subject: Re: DVE and maximum file count C Message-ID: <1107705382.189977.293410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Hi Rob,   D My issue is that I have a *large* number of little files - a typical< volume will have millions of the little suckers (yup, crappyE application design that I can't do anything about).  Even if I init a D volume today (7.3-2), I'm still constrained by the maximum number of@ files I can INIT the disk with using the formula (volume size inB blocks)/(cluster factor + 1).  It's the initial volume size that'sG used, not the maximum defined by the ultimate target limit.  That means G that I'm finding myself in the situation of not being able to use DVE - G I could increase the size of the volume, but since I can't add any more ! files, it doesn't do me any good.   F I realize I could do the disk to disk backup but that means taking theD volume offline for many hours., far more than any change window I'llG ever see here.  With millions of files, backups take forever.  I've got F a 50GB disk that ran out of file headers at 5000000.  I've got a bunch- 10GB volumes with over 500,000 files on them.   F For small numbers of large files, DVE should work well.  For customersG at the other end of the spectrum with large numbers of small files, DVE  doesn't much for us.  ) I hope that helps clarify what I'm after.    Thanks,   	    .../Ed    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 07:22:45 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 1 Subject: Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS / Message-ID: <110c2gst6g7ab4@corp.supernews.com>    Tom Linden wrote: M > On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:49:35 -0500, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:  >  >>1 >> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message % >> news:opslqlfpmvzgicya@hyrrokkin...  >>H >>> On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:22:12 -0500, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>
 >>> wrote: >>> B >>>> Our team is "considering" a shift from HP-BASIC to HP-C++ on  >>>> OpenVMS.  CanB >>>> anyone recommend an IDE (Interactive/Integrated Development   >>>> Environment)  >>>> for >>>> use with HP-C on OpenVMS? >>>> >>>> Neil Rieck " >>>> Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, >>>> Ontario, Canada. & >>>> http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ >>>> >>>> >>>  >>> Why? >>>  >> >> Why?  >>D >> I don't know how to answer this question without using the word   >> "religion".E >> Younger people have joined our team and they are pulling us in a    >> different
 >> direction.  >>E >> I am not a language bigot (although I prefer Pascal), but have to   >> admit  thatC >> "HP-BASIC for OpenVMS" has been a very successful watering-hole   >> language  at K >> my employer's company for more than 20 years and I have never found it a D >> road block to any problem. IMHO, if your work is modular and wellD >> documented, who cares what you use? But on the HR front, we were  >> always  able H >> to find programmers who either knew BASIC or easily could be taught   >> BASIC so ) >> it became the defacto standard for us.  >>I >> We all know that bad programs can be written in any language but some  
 >> of  theJ >> C++ advocates have correctly pointed out a significant number of "bad   >> code"L >> examples (written by less disciplined BASIC programmers) which might haveI >> been avoided had we used an object oriented language. (p.s. it is my   	 >> belief L >> that this only works by raising the skill-bar high enough to exclude lessE >> disciplined programmers in the first place; but programmers still   >> need  to be+ >> on their best behaviour no matter what).  >>K >> I've written a number of C++ programs for Windows-2k but came to realize I >> that large object-oriented programs can only be properly maintained by E >> people (other than the original author) when an IDE is available.   >> Anyone  whoG >> has experienced the inteli-sense features of "MS-Visual Studio" or   
 >> EclipseI >> (JAVA) will find it difficult to go back to a vanilla editor. So the   	 >> bottom K >> line is I'll check out any IDE's available for HP-C++ and see if they're I >> something we can use. If the IDEs look promising then we may have to   	 >> slowly K >> migrate away from HP-BASIC (probably new code only). If they do not look J >> promising then I'll recommend to the decision makers that we stick with >> HP-BASIC. >>
 >> Neil Rieck   >> Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, >> Ontario, Canada. ; >> http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html  >> >>L > Neil, your response is at best apologetic.  You either lead or you follow.E > You set your standards based on criteria to which you have given,   
 > presumably, H > some thought.  The fact that you are hiring kids who seem comfortable 	 > in  C++ K > and are willing to accomodate their petulence is your problem and it will F > get worse.  Now I have programmed in most languages and most people  > know  my biases M > and I won't expand on them here, but at least I have intellectual arguments D > for my choice, and am willing to debate those on technical merits. > J > Your hiring practices are wrong.  Hire people who have an aptitude and  
 > attitudeG > that is to your liking and train them.  They don't need a degree in    > Computer Science, 3 > probably even better, they will be more creative.  >  >   H It's refreshing to hear someone finally suggest not letting the inmates  run the asylum.    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 22:38:31 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 1 Subject: Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS - Message-ID: <87k6pl92jc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   + "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:   > > Our team is "considering" a shift from HP-BASIC to HP-C++ on> > OpenVMS. Can anyone recommend an IDE (Interactive/Integrated8 > Development Environment) for use with HP-C on OpenVMS?  1 Some one has mentioned `why' so I will say DON'T.   = Not because I think C++ is a pit, but because you are running ; the risk of having to do a series of running moves in rapid 8 sequence. That is a scenario that will trash most shops.  @ Consider also how you will mix your existing BASIC with new C++.= Don't accept  handwaves, have them DO it, replace an existing < BASIC routin with one done in C++ and show it passes all the tests.  A You are looking at the possibility of having to change everything + in a few years, don't add to the pain pile!   C (I have a personal loathing of BASIC from a disaster 20+ years ago, D but still consider it a far better pick for you than C++. I do think6 you need to change your programers though. Urgently!!)   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 13:30:16 -0500) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 1 Subject: Re: Need an IDE for C++ (CXX) on OpenVMS 7 Message-ID: <%mtNd.381$504.56451@news20.bellglobal.com>   ) <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message  ' news:87k6pl92jc.fsf@prep.synonet.com... - > "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  >   L Thanks for all the advice. I can't disagree with any of it. But I'd like to  make the following few points:  K First off, I am not in a position to hire/fire team members. I was once in  E management but realized that was not my true calling and returned to   technology.   L Second, I'm 52 years old and the new guys are in their middle 30's. Someday K they will get their own way and the results of their actions will be their  L problem (even so, no one wants to see computer systems they've worked on go J under; programs I have written back in 1986 are still in production and I  think that speaks for itself)   M Thirdly, what I can do is influence the decisions of management. And that is  G what I intend to do here by taking a calm a rational approach to these   suggestions.  L As others have already pointed out, there is no benefit to mixing BASIC and K C/C++ code. I tried it years ago by creating a BASIC program with external  C functions written in both BASIC and C/C++ and then comparing their  M performance numbers. The only thing that came out of those tests is that the  D Alpha platform is really fast no matter what code is being executed.  H So my personal line in the sand is the IDE. If a useable IDE can not be J found then my work is done and I'll recommend "no" for that reason alone. M However, if a usable IDE can be found then I can't say no but other concerns  K (some listed in this thread by others) will be brought into the debate. I,  % however, will not have the final say.   L p.s. As I stated in a previous post, HP-BASIC is a "watering-hole language" C at my work place. I really wanted to use the phrase "lowest common  J denominator" but that seemed somewhat disparaging. But I think you get my  point.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 14:53:15 +0200 4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com>' Subject: Re: php.ini options in MOD_PHP & Message-ID: <42062F5B.7D814366@hp.com>   issinoho@gmail.com wrote:  >  > Disappointing response, guys. 1 > Is anyone out there developing with PHP on VMS? 0 > Hey! Guys at HP! Who can I talk to about this?8 I've tried a bit - no DB stuff, so on the whole its veryF straight-forward if you remember there's generally a built-in function= to do what you want to do, the difficulty is in finding it...    Mike --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 18:13:51 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> > Subject: Re: REBOOT or SHUTDOWN, how to tell in SYSSHUTDWN.COM: Message-ID: <z7tNd.12313$qB6.9274@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>  K In the procedure, @sys$system:shutdown, then you can control all variables.      Z wrote:   > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > # >>> Did I misread the orig request?  >> >> I'd guess, yes. >> >>> Why won't that work? >> >> >>F >> I should ask you to go back and reread the thread, but in short, heG >> does not want to edit sys$system:shutdwn.com, so ther is no place to F >> put your code if he uses the symbols he has to invoke shutdown with" >> only the documented parameters. >  > J > I must be missing a post or two because I see no such prior stipulation $ > in any post in this thread. Sorry.   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 00:42:28 -0600 (CST)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)< Subject: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation?2 Message-ID: <05020600422797_27001146@antinode.org>  G    Currently, for better UNIX compatibility in most cases, Info-ZIP Zip F 2.3 down-cases VMS file names as it stores then in an archive, so, for$ example, "A.B" is archived as "a.b".  F    Let us imagine that Zip 3.0 will have some ability to preserve caseE in file names, and perhaps to sense ODS2-ODS5 file system types.  How * should it behave?  Some possibilities are:       1. Down-case always (as now).F    2. Preserve case as a command-line option (for both ODS2 and ODS5).C    3. Preserve case for files on ODS5, down-case for ODS2 (always). B    4. Preserve case as a command-line option for ODS5 and/or ODS2.
    X. Others?   F    Theoretically, the choices are up-case, down-case, or preserve caseG for each file system type, but up-case is never done now, so the likely 1 choices are down-case and preserve case for each.   G    What's a good default behavior?  (Same as now, or different?)  Which F different kinds of optional behaviors are needed?  Likely command-lineA options would be "-C" (and/or "-Cx") and /PRESERVE_CASE [= xxx].  4 (Please think a bit before contributing an opinion.)  H    Some additional thought might be given to how UnZip (6.0) should dealF with ODS5 extended file names when unpacking, too, but I'll leave that for a future inquiry.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:54:50 +0100 1 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_Pi=E9ronne?= @ Subject: Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation?, Message-ID: <36m7rkF54al1pU1@individual.net>  I >    Currently, for better UNIX compatibility in most cases, Info-ZIP Zip H > 2.3 down-cases VMS file names as it stores then in an archive, so, for& > example, "A.B" is archived as "a.b". > H >    Let us imagine that Zip 3.0 will have some ability to preserve caseG > in file names, and perhaps to sense ODS2-ODS5 file system types.  How , > should it behave?  Some possibilities are: > " >    1. Down-case always (as now).H >    2. Preserve case as a command-line option (for both ODS2 and ODS5).E >    3. Preserve case for files on ODS5, down-case for ODS2 (always). D >    4. Preserve case as a command-line option for ODS5 and/or ODS2. >    X. Others?  > H >    Theoretically, the choices are up-case, down-case, or preserve caseI > for each file system type, but up-case is never done now, so the likely 3 > choices are down-case and preserve case for each.  > I >    What's a good default behavior?  (Same as now, or different?)  Which H > different kinds of optional behaviors are needed?  Likely command-lineC > options would be "-C" (and/or "-Cx") and /PRESERVE_CASE [= xxx].  6 > (Please think a bit before contributing an opinion.) >   E IMHO, on a ODS5 volume, case preserve is the best behaviour when you  C want to exchange files between VMS/Unix. Not only case preserve is  . necessary, exact file name preserve is needed.  B This is what tar do and what most of Unix/Windows,... guys expect.H On a ODS2 keeping the current behaviour (lower name) is probably a good 2 solution, anyway you have lose the initial case...  F Currently, when I got a zip archive from Unix or send a zip archive I 1 use two 10 lines Python scripts which do the job.   H I only use VMS zip to compress backup file because zip can preserve the  RMS attribute.   [snip]   Just my 2 cents.  
 Jean-Franois    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 11:16:31 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)@ Subject: Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation?6 Message-ID: <00A3EF82.B7E53483@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  _ In article <05020600422797_27001146@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes: H >   Currently, for better UNIX compatibility in most cases, Info-ZIP ZipG >2.3 down-cases VMS file names as it stores then in an archive, so, for % >example, "A.B" is archived as "a.b".  > G >   Let us imagine that Zip 3.0 will have some ability to preserve case F >in file names, and perhaps to sense ODS2-ODS5 file system types.  How+ >should it behave?  Some possibilities are:  > ! >   1. Down-case always (as now). G >   2. Preserve case as a command-line option (for both ODS2 and ODS5). D >   3. Preserve case for files on ODS5, down-case for ODS2 (always).C >   4. Preserve case as a command-line option for ODS5 and/or ODS2.  >   X. Others?  E     5. Default to option 3 but allow override by command-line option.   N I think that the least surprising thing is that if you make a ZIP archive of aL directory and you UNZIP the archive, you get a directory that looks like the, original,  at least in any way that matters.  F I think I've seen futures discussion of an ODS-5 variant that will be C case sensitive (to support Unix-style XXXX.c being a different file I from xxxx.c).  If I haven't hallucinated that, then we'll definitely want M to preserve case for ODS-5 (since  you might otherwise get filename collision O inside your archive, for one thing), and I don't really see a downside to doing F that, so I like option 3.  But maybe somebody will someday see such a I downside, in which case it would be nice to able to override the sensible # default with a command-line option.    -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:34:44 -0500 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> @ Subject: Re: Zip 3.0 v. ODS5: Preferences for case preservation?1 Message-ID: <lNmdnS_a6bCKpJvfRVn-pw@adelphia.com>    Steven M. Schweda wrote:  H >    2. Preserve case as a command-line option (for both ODS2 and ODS5).   Yes   E >    3. Preserve case for files on ODS5, down-case for ODS2 (always).   3 Should be default behavior if nothing is specified.   E ZIP/UNZIP can also take their hints for filename handling from using  6 sys$getjpi() and looking up the DECC feature settings.  J >    Some additional thought might be given to how UnZip (6.0) should dealH > with ODS5 extended file names when unpacking, too, but I'll leave that > for a future inquiry.   5 UNZIP should have the option of forcing case UP/DOWN.   E There is a need for handling multiple dots in a filename differently   than the current behavior.  A foo.1.html needs to be restored as foo_1.html for most VMS based t" browsers to be able to display it.  H The same is the case for many source modules with multiple dots in them.   -Johne wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2005 03:08:47 -0800e* From: thierry.uso@wanadoo.fr (Thierry USO)! Subject: [ANN] Lucane for OpenVMSd= Message-ID: <79c022e7.0502060308.73307f6c@posting.google.com>   ? Lucane is a groupware platform written in Java by Vincent Fiack F (http://www.lucane.org/). It offers the usual groupware functions suchA as calendar, forum, instant messaging, file sharing... and may ben easily extended by plugins.e  A Lucane has an embedded database (hsqldb) but an external databasecB (mySQL...) can be used instead of hsqldb. Users access Lucane by a* Java client or a browser (IE, Mozilla...).  D I have ported Lucane 0.7.4 on OpenVMS. Porting means testing all theF functions, writing startup and shutdown procedures and creating a PCSI' kit. This PCSI kit can be downloaded atA/ http://perso.wanadoo.fr/thierry.uso/luc-en.htmlc   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.074 ************************