0 INFO-VAX	Mon, 14 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 90      Contents:; =?iso-8859-1?q?Make_Money_quickly_&_easily!!!!!!!!!!!!=A3?=  Cluster assembler ; Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL ; Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL ; Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL ! Re: Curly soon to be out of a job ) Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? ) Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? ) Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? ) Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?  Fixing Carly's Mess  Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Happy Valentines to Sue !  Re: Happy Valentines to Sue ! - Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend.... - Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend....  Re: More HP should...... Mounting disks during STARTUP  OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution D Re: regular expression support on OpenVMS (was Re: grep on openVMS?) Re: SLS dead  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2005 02:36:15 -0800 From: ADZ222@msn.comD Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Make_Money_quickly_&_easily!!!!!!!!!!!!=A3?=C Message-ID: <1108377375.249086.178370@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   L EARN extra =A3=A3=A3=A3=A3=A3=A3 it's very simple and LEGAL too! Working Fr= om? Home & Earn Cash Date: 14.10.2004 Please read on - this is 100% G simple and very effective.....you will not regret this! All you need is C honesty and you WILL make money! MAKE =A35,000 WITH JUST =A33 AND 6 A STAMPS!! YES....IT REALLY WORKS. MAKE QUICK AND EASY MONEY - THIS D ACTUALLY WORKS! I READ THIS ARTICLE ON A MESSAGE BOARD AND THOUGHT IE MIGHT ASWELL GIVE IT A GO.THIS IS THE GREATEST & SIMPLEST WAY TO MAKE C MONEY - WITH A TINY BIT OF EFFORT & NO HASSLE! THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE G IS BELOW. P.s. you dont even have to give your full name: your initials C or a fake one will do, just as long as the postman will diliver it! G Make =A3500 - =A35,000 or more, with just =A33 and 6 stamps. Earn money I honest and fairly. HOW TO TURN =A33 INTO =A35,000!!! OR MORE!!! IT REALLY G WORKS. I found this on a bulletin board and decided to try it. A little E while back, I was browsing message boards, just like you are now, and ? came across an article similar to this that said you could make C thousands of pounds within weeks with only an initial investment of G =A33.00. So I thought, "Yeah right, this must be a scam", but like most F of us, I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you haveG to send 50p to each of the 6 names and addresses stated in the article. E You then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at E No6, and post the article in as many newsgroups and message boards as F you can. (There are thousands) No catch,that was it. So after thinkingF it over, and talking to few people first, I thought about trying it. IC figured "what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and 3 quid right?" B Then I invested the measly =A33, Well guess what? Within 7 days, ID started getting money in the post! I was shocked! I figured it wouldE end soon; but the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I made E about =A330. By the end of the second week I had made a total of over I =A3900. In the third week I had over =A33,000 and was still growing. This H is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over =A315,000 andE it's still coming in rapidly. It's certainly worth =A33 and 6 stamps! G Let me tell you how this works and most importantly, why it works. It's G really simple and easy. I promise you that if you follow the directions ? exactly, that you will start making more money than you thought A possible by doing something so easy! Suggestion: Read this entire G message carefully. (Print it out or copy and paste it into notepad or a B blank email or similar) Follow the simple directions and watch theB money come rolling in! IMPORTANT: This is not a rip-off; it is not@ indecent; it is not illegal; and it is no risk (well - a massiveH =A33.00) - AND it really works. If all of the following instructions areB adhered to, you will receive extraordinary dividends. PLEASE NOTE:I Please follow these directions exactly, and =A3500 - =A35,000 or more can E be yours in 20 to 60 days. This program remains successful because of B the honesty and integrity of the participants. Please continue its2 success by carefully adhering to the instructions.  L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=@ ----------------------------------------------------------------  E  *Here Are The 4 Easy Steps To Success - TRY IT......GO ON, WHAT HAVE G YOU GOT TO LOSE EXCEPT =A33. STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and B write the following on each piece of paper: "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOURF MAILING LIST" and then write your name and address below that. Now getE 6 UK 50p coins and tape ONE to EACH of the 6 pieces of paper and fold A the piece of paper in half so the coin will not break through the A envelope. Next, place one of the pieces of paper in each of the 6 F envelopes and seal them. (make sure you put a stamp on each envelope -B a 2nd class stamp will be fine if you want to keep your costs evenC lower) You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of G paper inside saying "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST", your name and G address, and a 50p coin. What you are doing is creating a service. THIS D IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! You are requesting a legitimate service and you@ are paying for it. (very little!) Like most of us I was a littleF skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So ID checked it out with the UK Post Office and they confirmed that it isC indeed legal. If you have any worries, refer to Title18 Sec. 1302 & A 1341 of the Postal lottery laws. It is fantastically - completely  legal!  1 Now send your 6 envelopes to the addresses below: @ No1) E. Chapman, 2 Rocklands Road, Shropham, Norfolk, NR17 1DU ,G No2) Helen McCrorey, 85 Michaelmas Road, Styvechale, Coventry, CV3 6HF,   B No3)T. Low, 97 Farmleigh Avenue, Clacton-on-sea, Essex, CO15 4UL ,E No4) D.Breckon, 6 Station Crescent, Billingham, Cleveland, TS23 1LY , 8 No5) A.Friction, 112 Farren Road, Northfield, Birmingham= No6) A.C.S. , 52 Gorton Road, Willerby, East Riding, HU10 6LT   E *IMPORTANT: You MUST do this step or these people will not be able to G add your name to their mailing lists as spaces become available on them F and you will lose out on a lot of money - and we dont want that! Also,E when you do Step No3, when people start sending money in, the above 6 E will KNOW that you didn't adhere to the rules as they never got their C 50p from you and will take you off the list! These are the RULES. : D *PLEASE REMEMBER that this program remains successful because of the@ honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefullyC adhering to the directions. Look at it this way - If you follow the F rules completely, the program will continue and therefore so will yourE money! * STEP 2: Now take the number 1 name off the list that you see D above and move the others up 1. (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc.) AndA add YOUR name and address at number 6 on the list. STEP 3: Change B anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to the? original as possible. Now, post your amended article to as many F newsgroups and message boards as you can (You should really try to aimE for at least 200 which isn't as difficult as it sounds with the 'copy C and paste' feature - more on this below) I think there are close to B 34,000 groups. And remember, the more you post, the more money youG make! ** Keep a copy of these steps for yourself and, whenever you need D money, you can use it again, and again. So, as each post is sent andE the directions followed carefully, six members will be reimbursed for C their participation as a List Developer with 50p : pence each. Your G name will move up the list geometrically so that when your name reaches E the No1 position you will be receiving thousands of Pounds in CASH!!! " What an opportunity for only =A33.  L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=@ ----------------------------------------------------------------  G *DIRECTIONS FOR HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS* : STEP 1) You do not need to B re-type this entire letter to do your own posting. Simply put yourB cursor at the top of this document and highlight all of it. SelectD 'copy' from the edit menu. This will copy the entire letter into theG computer's memory. STEP 2) Open a blank 'notepad' file or a blank email C and place your cursor at the top of the blank page. From the 'edit' F menu select 'paste'. This will paste a copy of the letter into notepadE or a blank email so that : you can add your name to the list. STEP 3) F Save your new notepad file as a .txt. file or save your email with theC document now on it. STEP 4) Search for various news groups (on-line D forums, message boards, discussions groups) using a search engine orF however you like. STEP 5) Visit these message boards etc and post thisD article as a new message by highlighting the text of this letter youD will have saved, and selecting 'copy' and then 'paste' from the editF menu. (paste this document on the message board) : Fill in the SubjectG line, this will be the header that everyone sees as they scroll through = the list of postings in a particular group. Make it something G intriguing that will make people want to read your message. : Click the 5 post message button. You're done with your first one! D Congratulations...THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to differentD newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, it will take> only take you a few seconds for each newsgroup! You will beginE receiving money within days!. * PLEASE READ: Now the WHY part: Out of D 200 postings, say you receive only 10 replies (a very low example ofD 5%). So then you make =A35 with your name at No6 on the letter. Now,A each of the 10 persons who just sent you 50p make the MINIMUM 200 C postings, each with your name at No6 and only 10 persons respond to E each of the original 10, that is another =A350 for you. Now those 100 A each make a MINIMUM 200 with your name at No4 and only receive 10 F replies each, you will make an additional =A3500!! OK, now here is theD fun part, each of those 1000 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters withF your name at No3 and they each only receive 10 replies, that just madeF you =A35,000!!!! Those 10,000 persons will all deliver this message toD 200 newsgroups with your name at No2 and if still only 10 people perB 200 newsgroups react, you will receive =A350,000! With an originalG investment of only =A33 that's AMAZING!!! Do you realise that thousands D of people all over the world are joining the Internet every day? AndG reading these articles JUST LIKE YOU ARE NOW!! There are tons of honest D users looking at newsgroups and message boards everyday that will beE willing to give it a try. Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users D joining the Internet every day. So can you afford =A33 and see if itE really works? I think so... **Remember** Play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and F this will really work. DONT play honestly and fairly and it WONT. GoodH luck in your new business!!! How to turn =A33 into =A35,000! Or more! Do it!!   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2005 09:09:26 -0800$ From: "ugex" <edgar_ulloa@yahoo.com> Subject: Cluster assemblerB Message-ID: <1108400966.392100.95760@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  A Hi Im assembly a cluster scsi with 2 alphas 1000 under ovms 7.3-1   D I put all my licences for cluster in node one and two and execute in nodo1 @cluster_config    I choose  add decnet node name :nodo2  decnet addres :2.3 will nodo2 be a boot server? Y alloclass:1  quorumdisk:$1$dka200 .. ..  " after answered the questions i saw  D before booting nodo2 you must create a new default bootstrap command procedure for nodo2   A Some one knows if I need execute @cluster_config in nodo2 also..? . How can I boot my node2..?  >>> boot -fl 0   ?  1 What is the best steps for assembly my cluster..?    Thanks for all your help   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:22:28 GMT . From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca>D Subject: Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL, Message-ID: <o75Qd.70160$tU6.59558@edtnps91>  B I tweaked a version that came with VMS for my purposes.  It uses 2
 parameters   Param1:  Unix style filenameH Param2: Name of a DCL symbol that the code will place the VMS style into  # $ unix_to_vms = "[]unix_to_vms.exe" 5 $ unix_to_vms "device/dir/subdir/file.ext" "vms_file"  $ write sys$output vms_file  $!& $! here are the build/run instructions $!* $ write sys$output "Compiling ''file' ...") $ cc/object=unix_to_vms.obj unix_to_vmx.c  $!( $ write sys$output "Linking ''file' ..."* $ link/exe=unix_to_vms.exe unix_to_vms.obj $!I /************************************************************************ I *                                                                       * I *  Copyright Digital Equipment Corporation 1998. All rights reserved.   * I *                                                                       * I *  Restricted Rights: Use, duplication, or disclosure by the U.S.       * I *  Government is subject to restrictions as set forth in subparagraph   * I *  (c) (1) (ii) of DFARS 252.227-7013, or in FAR 52.227-19, or in FAR   * I *  52.227-14 Alt. III, as applicable.                                   * I *                                                                       * I *  This software is proprietary to and embodies the confidential        * I *  technology of Digital Equipment Corporation. Possession, use, or     * I *  copying of this software and media is authorized only pursuant to a  * I *  valid written license from Digital or an authorized sublicensor.     * I *                                                                       * I ************************************************************************/   . /*      copied from decc$to_vms_example.c   */  : /* Translate "Unix" wildcard file names to VMS names    */: /* Define as a foreign command and provide the name     */: /* as an argument.                                      */   #include <stdio.h> #include <libdef.h>  #include <descrip.h> #include <lib$routines.h>  #include <string.h>  #include <unixlib.h>   int action(char *, int);   char g_file[] = "";     int main(int argc, char *argv[]) {      int sts;       if (strlen(argv[1]) == 0) { :         printf("parameter 1: File to translate required");         return (4);      }        if (strlen(argv[2]) == 0) { >         printf("parameter 2: Symbol name to define required");         return (4);      }   -     sts = decc$to_vms(argv[1], action, 1, 0);   #     char vmsfile[strlen(g_file)+1];        strcpy(vmsfile, g_file);  %     char mysymbol[strlen(argv[2])+1];        strcpy(mysymbol, argv[2]);  )     $DESCRIPTOR(mysymbol_desc, mysymbol); (     $DESCRIPTOR(symvalue_desc, vmsfile);  8     sts = lib$set_symbol(&mysymbol_desc,&symvalue_desc);       return (0);  }   ! int action (char *name, int type)  {      /*!     if (type == DECC$K_DIRECTORY) (         printf("directory: %s\n", name);$     else if (type == DECC$K_FOREIGN)-         printf("remote non-VMS: %s\n", name);      else*         printf("file:        %s\n", name);     */       strcpy(g_file, name);   E     /* Translation continues as long as success status is returned */      return (1);  }    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2005 12:01:12 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)D Subject: Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL3 Message-ID: <nCXWx8czbzLo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A3F55A.46031AF6@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: l > In article <mpcuFYvMXuYC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:A >>I have a java program that calls a DCL command proc to work on  E >>a file.  The java program passes the filename in unix style format, D >>/disk/dir1/dir2/dir3/file.ext to which DCL says, "Huh?".  Is thereF >>an easy way from DCL to convert a unix name to a VMS name?   PerhapsG >>an undocumented parameter to parse_style in F$PARSE called DEUNIXIFY?  > D > Write a simple but if code (C might be easiest) which employs the B > DECC RTL decc$to_vms().  You can take the unix filespec as inputC > and output the VMS name to a DCL symbol with LIB$SET_SYMBOL or to  > a logical name.   E Thanks, VAXman, I already have a solution like that working.  What I  D was hoping for was to make it system agnostic, so that I didn't needC to have any additional bits and pieces.  I'm trying to get an open  A source java tool to play nice with a generic VMS system so I can  A release it to the community with as few dependencies as possible.   D I'm just making sure I am not missing something obvious.  (I'm stillB amazed that I run into commands, or utilities, that I didn't know + existed on VMS even after all these years.)    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2005 12:09:47 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)D Subject: Re: Coverting filenames from unix style to VMS style in DCL3 Message-ID: <FfGIxm2nQ2DX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   } In article <craigberry-7F83FD.16573013022005@news.isp.giganews.com>, "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> writes: 5 > In article <mpcuFYvMXuYC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 8 >  kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) wrote: > B >> I have a java program that calls a DCL command proc to work on F >> a file.  The java program passes the filename in unix style format,E >> /disk/dir1/dir2/dir3/file.ext to which DCL says, "Huh?".  Is there G >> an easy way from DCL to convert a unix name to a VMS name?   Perhaps H >> an undocumented parameter to parse_style in F$PARSE called DEUNIXIFY? > I > One way to do it is with Perl.  If you just want to take a unix syntax  ? > name as input and print the VMS syntax name, this will do it:  > 5 > $ perl -e "print VMS::Filespec::vmsify($ARGV[0]);"  ! > "/disk/dir1/dir2/dir3/file.ext"  > disk:[dir1.dir2.dir3]file.ext  > H > If you want to modify the contents of a DCL symbol called "filespec", 5 > replacing its unix syntax with VMS syntax, do this:  > . > $ filespec = "/disk/dir1/dir2/dir3/file.ext"4 > $ perl -"MVMS::DCLsym" -e "tie %dcl, VMS::DCLsym; 8 > $dcl{filespec}=VMS::Filespec::vmsify($dcl{filespec});" > $ show symbol filespec. >   FILESPEC = "disk:[dir1.dir2.dir3]file.ext" > F > These examples are written so as to fit on one line; there are more F > readable and efficient ways to do the same thing in Perl if you are F > willing to write a small utility script and keep it around for this J > purpose.  Since Perl's conversion capabilities predate ODS-5 by quite a I > few years, they may not handle things like multiple dots properly, but    > are otherwise pretty reliable.  C I keep seeing more and more examples of how to do things with Perl. D One of these days I'm going to have to remove the plastic wrap from D my O'Reilly Perl book and skim it.  ;^)  (I can hear the collective D gasp of the computer literati now, "Gasp!  RTFM?  Turn in your guru  badge immediately!")  2 > You could also have a look at how to do it in C: > 8 > SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.CRTL]DECC$TO_VMS_EXAMPLE.C > H > Adding calls to lib$get_symbol and lib$set_symbol in there would be a = > way to have a small standalone program that reproduces the  J > functionality of my second Perl example.  You could also build on the C F > example to write a JNI plug-in and convert the filespec from within " > Java before passing it to DCL.    F The C program I already have working.  I hadn't considered JNI, but itE might be worth a look as I could bundle it back into the open source  ; java package I'm doing this for as a VMS specific addition.   H > Obviously none of these methods is as convenient for your purposes as G > having a DCL lexical, but I have never heard of one that does this.   1 > Sounds like another thing for Guy's to-do list.   F That is sort of why I tossed it out there.  If I was missing somethingF obvious, someone would pipe up.  If not, perhaps the DCL dude(s) would- see the merit and put it in the "to do" list.    Thanks, Craig.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 04:12:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: Curly soon to be out of a jobB Message-ID: <1108371627.d9a4c0f8110b62bc897c6c3cce94fcb5@teranews>  # As an update to the original story.   G BBC now reports that it is Verizon which will get MCI. (Initial rumours  were that Qwest would buy MCI).   G I wonder if, should this deal progress, Curly would be allowed to leave C to go to HP now, or would HP have to wait a good 8-12 months before C Curly would be relieved of his responsabilities during the takeover 	 process ?   D Could HP really wait this long before getting a real CEO ? (not thatB Curly woudl be considered a "real" CEO, he is just good at finding2 buyers for the companies he runs into the ground).    H If Verizon were to allow Curly go to now, that would say a lot about hisD true value. And HP would look really desperate to hire a reject fromD another company, just like Worldcom/MCI was desperate to find anyone' willing to work for a bankrupt company.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2005 01:36:25 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) 2 Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0502140136.5c9e1403@posting.google.com>   ! Ouch! I cannot let this one pass!   < Can you please explain why you use all the single quotes in   / $       MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "EXISTS")    The correct syntax is   , $       MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS")  > And by the way, can you explain WHY your code still DOES work?   Regards,  	 Bart Zorn   Z Lee Mah <lytmah@telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<j2nPd.45170$gA4.40364@edtnps89>...H > If the prospective shadow member meets any of the following condition,6 > then it's not eligible for the intended shadow copy. > M > $       MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "EXISTS")   ! Must be a valid device. " > $       IF MBRSTAT .EQS. "FALSE" > $...H > $       MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "SHDW_MASTER")   ! Just in case  > you put in wrong device DSA.! > $       IF MBRSTAT .EQS. "TRUE"  > $...G > $       MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "SHDW_MEMBER")   ! Can't be an   > existing shadow member. ! > $       IF MBRSTAT .EQS. "TRUE"  > $...J > $       MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "MNT")      ! This would check if " > it's already copying or merging.< > $       IF MBRSTAT .EQS. "TRUE"       ! A disk may not be 3 > copying/merging, but it could be already mounted.  > $... >  >  >  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > : > >I have two shadow members dka0 and dka100 ... I want to@ > >bring in a third shadow set member for a quick backup nightly= > >from a batch command routine but I need a vms call to find ? > >out the status of the dka200 thrid member.  If it is copying @ > >I will wait 5 minutes then continue to check until the status5 > >shows the disk as a shadow member ... I could do a  > >  > >$ show device d/out=somefile  > > 1 > >and then parse it, but is there a quicker way?  > >  > >    > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:52:22 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>2 Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?, Message-ID: <37bamkF5dfrokU1@individual.net>   Bart Zorn wrote:  # > Ouch! I cannot let this one pass!  > > > Can you please explain why you use all the single quotes in  > 1 > $       MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "EXISTS")  >  > The correct syntax is  > . > $       MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS") > @ > And by the way, can you explain WHY your code still DOES work? >   E IIRC this syntax dates back to V2.n or thereabouts and, as ever, VMS  ! tries not to break existing code.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2005 06:48:41 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) 2 Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0502140648.65c96094@posting.google.com>   E Yes, this has worked as lang as DCL has symbol substitution. And just D as long this syntax is nonsense. It merely shows that the programmerA does not understand what symbol substitution is and how it works.   8 It certainly is NOT old syntax which is still supported!   Regards,  	 Bart Zorn   ^ Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<37bamkF5dfrokU1@individual.net>... > Bart Zorn wrote: > % > > Ouch! I cannot let this one pass!  > > @ > > Can you please explain why you use all the single quotes in  > > 3 > > $       MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(''DSKMBR', "EXISTS")  > >  > > The correct syntax is  > > 0 > > $       MBRSTAT = F$GETDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS") > > B > > And by the way, can you explain WHY your code still DOES work? > >  > G > IIRC this syntax dates back to V2.n or thereabouts and, as ever, VMS  # > tries not to break existing code.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2005 07:05:56 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com 2 Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?C Message-ID: <1108393556.229944.316950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   D that did the trick ... now backups are a breeze ... I just bring any disk= as a third member and then dismount when the copy is done ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:19:58 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie)  Subject: Fixing Carly's Mess4 Message-ID: <2A1Qd.56210$uL5.19835@fe2.texas.rr.com>  C    http://www.business2.com/b2/web/articles/0,17863,1026920,00.html H    Business 2.0 :: Online Article :: Working Tech :: Fixing Carly's Mess     "Fixing Carly's Mess%    By Owen Thomas,  February 10, 2005   	    [snip]   H    HP's high-end server lines, like Integrity and NonStop, have sufferedI    from years of neglect. Some recent moves, like revamping the Integrity H    line and extending support for the VMS operating system, have pointedI    in the right direction. More of the same -- much more -- is needed..."      --Jerry Leslie9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2005 07:03:07 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? ? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-7JdXurGcY1i5@dave2_os2.home.ours>   6 On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 03:01:11 UTC, Z <Z@no.spam> wrote:   > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >>>"at" ... "SUBMIT"L > >>>(Guess you can tell that at some point I just looked at my HELP displayD > >>>and picked out some of the more obviously "intuitive" UN*X-land > >>>commands, eh? ;-) > >>L > >>Again, the VMS commands are more meaningful to you only because of your  > >>past VMS experience. > >  > > L > > No, actually the VMS commands are more meaningful due to past experienceM > > with the English language.  Those from some countries might not find that K > > helpful, but unless David has been fooling us all this time, he is from  > > the United States. > 	 > Really?  > G > How often do you use the word SUBMIT when talking about something you  > need to do in the future?   F I do get your point. On the other hand to be submitting you'd have to F know something about Batch queues. When you have that and you've been D taught that jobs are submitted to batch queues, the command becomes D intuitive. I assume (don't know) that the same is true for using, I C believe, cron on Unix. Maybe then, 'at' also becomes intuitive. As  ( ever, everything depends on the context.   --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2005 07:03:08 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? ? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dQJn2ftSwrIG@dave2_os2.home.ours>   F On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:46:25 UTC, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote:   e > In article <sOL5DRxERm1n@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: A > !In article <A0OPd.1312$wt4.38@fe07.lga>, Z <Z@no.spam> writes:  > !> David J Dachtera wrote: > !  > !>> "rm" ... "DELETE"  > !>> "vi" ... "EDIT"  > !>> "cd" ... "SET DEFAULT" > D > Devil's advocate - "CHANGE DIRECTORY" is much more intuitive here.   Devil's answer. Not always.   E CD on a DOS-based command line means 'change directory on the device  E specified'. Most people use it as if it were like DCL's SET DEFAULT,   however. Consider :-  
 	c:> cd wally   D That would change the current directory in use on C: to c:\..\wally E and by coincidence that's where you'd be working (default directory).    	c:> cd d:\wally  E That would change the current directory in use on D: to d:\wally but  A you'd still be in c: somwhere.  You're default directory has not  , changed. In fact to get there you need to :-   	c:> d:   & I offer no claims about Unix or MAC's.   --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:36:17 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? , Message-ID: <37b67vF5anjakU1@individual.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:@ > In article <A0OPd.1312$wt4.38@fe07.lga>, Z <Z@no.spam> writes: >  >>David J Dachtera wrote:  >  >  >>>"rm" ... "DELETE" >>>"vi" ... "EDIT" >>>"cd" ... "SET DEFAULT"  >>>"ls" ... "DIRECTORY"  >>>"tar" ... "BACKUP"  >>>"cat" ... "TYPE"  >>>"man" ... "HELP"  >>>"ps" ... "SHOW SYSTEM"  >>>"lpr" ... "PRINT" >>>"at" ... "SUBMIT"J >>>(Guess you can tell that at some point I just looked at my HELP displayB >>>and picked out some of the more obviously "intuitive" UN*X-land >>>commands, eh? ;-) >>J >>Again, the VMS commands are more meaningful to you only because of your  >>past VMS experience. >  > J > No, actually the VMS commands are more meaningful due to past experienceK > with the English language.  Those from some countries might not find that I > helpful, but unless David has been fooling us all this time, he is from  > the United States.  H And the qualifiers and meanings thereof are consistent across utilities  on VMS.   H Anyone remember the subtle differences between the PDP utilities across F RT-11, RSTS and RSX? I know I was once caught out by the fact that /Q J for query (/CONFIRM on VMS) was the default on RT-11 PIP, but not on RSTS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:41:23 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? , Message-ID: <37b6hhF5c10deU1@individual.net>   Bradford J. Hamilton wrote:    <snip>   > !>> "at" ... "SUBMIT"  > % > BATCH would be more intuitive here.  >   G But if you came from a mainframe background, SUBMIT was better. cf DOS  B .BAT files which can be submitted by the AT command on NT, or run  interactively.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:47:03 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? , Message-ID: <37baclF574mptU1@individual.net>   Dave Froble wrote:   > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > 3 >> In article <cuovtg$b5d$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>,  < >> hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes: >>8 >>> In article <sOL5DRxERm1n@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 3 >>> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: C >>> !In article <A0OPd.1312$wt4.38@fe07.lga>, Z <Z@no.spam> writes:  >>> !> David J Dachtera wrote: >>> !  >>> !>> "rm" ... "DELETE"  >>> !>> "vi" ... "EDIT"  >>> !>> "cd" ... "SET DEFAULT" >>> F >>> Devil's advocate - "CHANGE DIRECTORY" is much more intuitive here. >> >> >>E >> If so, do you know of an operating system which provides a command  >> called CHANGE DIRECTORY ? >  > K > I'm going to reverse my earlier claim that all DCL verbs are better than  % > the unix commands.  Well, somewhat.  > B > What you're doing is changing the default directory, and CHANGE J > DIRECTORY is quite defining.  As for the fact that it's just CD on most F > systems, well, how about a show of hands of those who do NOT have a * > symbol SD as a shortcut for SET DEFAULT. > I > And yes, BACKUP is a computereze word, and not really real clear to an s > english speaker. > K > But overall, I personally feel that DCL is clearer to an english speaker eE > than anything else.  That makes me wonder whether the cryptic Unix o> > commands might actually be easier for a non-english speaker. >   G Having started out my IT life with meaningless utility names (XPJC for o> sort, XPCK for link on an ICL system, for example), I greatly E appreciated the early form of DCL which came with RT-11 and then the tE better version with VMS. I do recall thinking it somewhat verbose at  G first, but not only have my typing skills improved significantly since pG the early days, but line transmission (think full screen editor over a nE modem) and CPU speeds (think DCL execution time on early VAXen) have   increased greatly too.  I But I came across an example of what you refer to just recently. Someone  G was (IIRC not a native English speaker) saying that he _liked_ cryptic yF commands because they were obviously computer instructions and saying 8 that Applescript on OS X was _too_ English like for him.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:12:45 -0000l6 From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk> Subject: Re: grep on openVMS?p6 Message-ID: <421095be$0$32615$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  D "Bradford J. Hamilton" <hamilton@Encompasserve.org> wrote in message) news:cuovtg$b5d$1@grandcanyon.binc.net...mE > VMS is more intuitive than UNIX, but there are still some arbitrary! choices=I > here.  I don't remember much of PRIMOS, but I think that some of the CL  wasN0 > yet more intuitive.  bill g., care to comment? >A  L Don't know about Bill, but I found PRIMOS to be very intuative, as I do VMS.B Of course most people hevily personailsed it with 'abbrev' anyway.  & As for UNIX, well no it simply is not.  D And UNIX arguments are not even worth a comparison of intuitiveness' compared to VMS qualifiers.Y   PRIMOS COMMANDS (A)SK ABBREV Allows users to create and use abbreviations for PRIMOS commands andA their arguments.L ASRCWD Used only with serial I/O; ASRCWD 0 recovers a diverted terminal line, from a serial printer, card reader or punch.D ASSIGN User gains complete control over a disk or peripheral device.I ATTACH Directory named by pathname, ufd-name, or name becomes the workingo
 directory.I AVAIL Gives disk usage statistics for the current disk. With no argument,NG gives current disk. With pathname, or with disk number, gives specifiedo% disk. With * gives all started disks.h     PRIMOS COMMANDS (B)m* BASIC Runs the BASIC Language interpreter.0 BASICV Runs the compiling, virtual-memory BASIC.: BASINP Loads non-Prime BASIC from paper tape into pathnameH BATCH -DISPLAY Displays information on jobs being processed by the Batch
 subsystem.B BATGEN Lists name and status for each Batch queue, or displays the6 queuename, status, and characteristics for each queue.J BINARY Opens pathname for writing on file unit 3 for output. Equivalent to OPEN pathname 3 2.   PRIMOS COMMANDS (C)sJ CLOSE Closes specified files and file units (except a COMOUTPUT file which is closed by COMO -E),6 CMPF Compares lines in up to five ASCII files, showing) insertions/changes/deletions from file-a..K CNAME Changes name of file or directory. CNAME requires owner status to then
 directory. COBOL Runs the COBOL compiler.J COMINPUT Reads command input from pathname instead of terminal. Input fileG unit is 6 (default) unless funit is specified. CLOSE ALL will close theeF COMINPUT file-unit causing the error message, "Unit not open. Cominput (Input from terminal)".eJ COMOUTPUT Sends output stream to file specified by pathname or file opened& on unit '177. Not closed by CLOSE ALL.H CONCAT Combines a number of input files into an output file suitable for	 spooling.mE CPL Invokes the CPL interpreter and executes the CPL program named by. pathname.generate C flow graphL CPMPC Punches the file pathname on ASSIGNEed card reader/ punch 0 or 1. Does  not punch a $E end-of-file card.I CREATE Creates a new directory as specified by pathname, with blank owners@ and zero non-owner passwords. The protection keys are set to 7 0F CRMPC Reads cards from parallel interface card reader 0 or 1 into file7 specified by pathname. Cards are translated into ASCII.i   PRIMOS COMMANDS (D)i( DATE Displays the current date and time.0 DBASIC Runs double-precision interpretive BASIC.& DBG Invokes the source level debugger.5 DEFINE_GVAR Activates the named global variable file.NE DELAY Sets terminal delay characteristics. Can be set prior to LOGIN.m> DELETE Deletes pathname (either a file or an empty directory).K DELETE_VAR Deletes the named variables from an active global variable file.n% Variable names may be wildcard names.oJ DELSEG Deassigns a segment. The ALL option releases all segments belonging to user.J DMSTK The DMSTK command produces a call/return trace of the user's command* loop stack and Static Mode stack (if any).   PRIMOS COMMANDS (E)H ED Edits existing or new file.G EDB The binary editor is used for building and maintaining libraries ofn subroutines.   PRIMOS COMMANDS (F)O  F77 Invokes FORTRAN 77 compiler.F FILEMEM Clears contents of user address space to zeros for unsegmented	 programs.f; FILVER Compares two files. Prints out differances in octal.s FTN Invokes FORTRAN compiler.gL FUTIL FUTIL is the interactive file manipulation utility. It responds with a0 prompt character, >, and waits for sub-commands.   PRIMOS COMMANDS (H)nK HDXSTAT Displays the current status of all lines and sites of a half duplexo (HDX) network configuration.L HPSD HPSD loads a version of PSD (Prime Symbolic Debugger) that is stored in the upper portion of memory.   PRIMOS COMMANDS (I)o> INPUT Opens pathname for reading on file unit 1. Equivilant to OPEN filename 1 1    PRIMOS COMMANDS (J)y2 JOB Submits and controls jobs for Batch execution.   PRIMOS COMMANDS (L)iL LABEL Creates an ANSI COBOL level 1 volume label on a magnetic tape or reads; an existing label. The magnetic tape unit must be ASSIGNed.eJ LATE Requests a time in 24-hour HHMM format at which the next command willE be processed. If the specified time is earlier than the current time, J execution is deferred until the following day. The terminal cannot be used5 for any other purpose until after the time specified.eL LISTF Displays current directory name, logical drive and names of all files,L sub-UFDs and segment directories in the current directory. Displays OWNER or& NONOWNer status for current directory.> LISTING Opens a file for writing on file unit 2. Equivalent to OPEN pathname 2 2.E LIST_VAR Lists named variables and their values from an active globals3 variable file. Variable name may be wildcard names.mD LOAD Invokes the Linking Loader. LOAD loads programs for R-mode codeK generated by PMA, FORTRAM or RPGII. To load segmented code, use the commandt SEG." LOGIN Log in to specified ufdname.$ LOGOUT Log out user or phantom user.   PRIMOS COMMANDS (M) D MAGNET MAGNET is an interactive magnetic tape utility that transfers> non-Prime-format magnetic tapes to and from PRIMOS disk files.I MAGRST Restores files, directory-trees or partitions from a magnetic tapen4 created with MAGSAV. The tape unit must be ASSIGNed.E MAGSAV Writes a PRIMOS disk file, directory-tree or partition to 7 orl6 9-track magnetic tape. The tape unit must be ASSIGNed.0 MDL Memory dump/load to/from punched paper tape.H MESSAGE Waits for one line of text and sends it to operator's or another user's console. 0 MRGF Merged up to five files into a single file.   PRIMOS COMMANDS (N)u6 NCOBOL Invokes the non-shared (R-mode) COBOL compiler.? NETLINK Connects user to any system on the Public Data Network.a7 NSED NSED is the non-shared version of the text editor.m8 NUMBER Numbers/re-numbers statements in a BASIC program.   PRIMOS COMMANDS (O)tH OPEN Opens specified pathname on specified unit. Type of file and access mode are specifed as well.   PRIMOS COMMANDS (P)y# PASCAL Invokes the PASCAL compiler.pK PASSWD Changes owner and non-owner passwords of current directory (only forn user attached as owner).I PHANTOM Runs the command file or CPL program specified as a phantom user. * PL1G Invokes the PL/1, Subset G, compiler.2 PM Displays contents of RVEC user register vector.$ PMA Invokes Prime's Macro Assembler.J PRERR Displays ERRVEC messages set by ERRSET and first six octal locations; in ERRVEC or prints ERRVEC and last error message. Obsolete-G PRMPG Prints specified pathname on MPG parallel interface printer (PR0)- previously ASSIGNed.K PROP Tells users which printers and/or plotetrs are running, and what their: environments are. 8 PROTEC Sets protection rights on the specified pathname.F PRSER Prints the specified pathname on serial ineterface printer (CEN) previously ASSIGNed.E PRVER Prints the specified pathname on a configured printer/ plotter.r( PSD Invokes the Prime Symbolic Debugger.G PTCPY Duplicates and verifies paper tape, using the previously assignede2 high-speed paper tape reader and paper tape punch.   PRIMOS COMMANDS (R)eL RDY Allows users to choose prompt message to be displayed at their terminals and in their COMOUTPUT files. H RESTOR Restores runfile contained in the specified pathname into memory.C RESUME Runs (restores and starts) external program contained in the  specified pathname.s$ RLS Discards unwanted stack history.% RPG Invokes the Prime RPGII Compiler.e? RSTERM Empties the user terminal's input and/or output buffers.x+ RUNOFF Invokes Prime RUNOFF text processor.l   PRIMOS COMMANDS (S)'D SAVE Saves memory (segment '4000) from sa (start address) to ea (end address) as a file.tL SEG Invokes a utility for loading, modifying, running, and sharing segmented (V-mode) programs.I SET_VAR At command level, defines a global variable and places it and itsw" value in the global variable file.J SIZE Displays data size of specified pathname in normalized records, which is words/440, rounded up.oI SLIST Prints (or displays) the contents of a file at the user's terminal.o9 SORT Sorts ASCII, variable length, or fixed length files.w4 SPOOL Queues disk files for line printer or plotter.J START Starts execution. Initializes process registers and keys, and startsB execution at pc. Assumes that a program is in memory. If pc is not6 specified, execution resumes at point of interruption.& STATUS Displays user or system status.L SVCSW Sets SVC switch, which controls handling of the SVC instruction in the virtual memory environment.a   PRIMOS COMMANDS (T)yC TERM Sets terminal characteristics. (Resets to defaults on logout.) K TIME Displays connect time (in hours and minutes), and compute and disk I/Oh times (in minutes and seconds).sJ TRAMLC Transmits or receives a file over an assigned AMLC line between two Prime computer systems.sB TYPE Prints text at user's terminal or into a command output file.   PRIMOS COMMANDS (U)0H UNASSIGN Releases a device (or communications line) previously ASSIGNed.J UPCASE Replaces lower case letters in the specifed file with corresponding upper case letters.I' USERS Displays number of current users.p   PRIMOS COMMANDS (V)d> VPSD, VPSD16 Invokes the Virtual-mode Prime Symbolic Debugger.G VRTSSW Sets a user's virtual sense switches, which are available to thegC user's program via the INA '1620 (read sense switches) instruction.t   PRIMOS COMMANDS ($$)L $$ JOB Controls submission and execution of batch jobs. Must appear as first line in job file.e   Alex   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:50:47 +0000 (UTC)r From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: grep on openVMS?r) Message-ID: <cuq6r7$qhe$2@news.mdx.ac.uk>,  r In article <1108333457.7c6d0cf73029e7e414fcc4c3b17b101d@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >David J Dachtera wrote: >> "rm" ... "DELETE" >					REMOVE >> "vi" ... "EDIT"# >					VI is a "brand name" editor. s >b >> "cd" ... "SET DEFAULT"p6 >					This is de facto standard on most platforms now, >> e >> "ls" ... "DIRECTORY" ' >					Comes from "LIST" (list of files)h >> "tar" ... "BACKUP" < >					TAR is a well known backup format now. Not so obscure. >  >> "cat" ... "TYPE"iC >					Comes from Concatenate. (think APPEND myfile.dat sys$output:)b >> "man" ... "HELP"  >					MANUAL >> "ps" ... "SHOW SYSTEM"r! >					ok, so that one is obscure.s >> "lpr" ... "PRINT"C >					Line Printer. (and LPR is now a well known printer protocol)_- >0 >?A >Once you knwo the meaning of the commands, they really aren't sorH >obscure.  And just how do you remember all the qualifiers available forD >each VMS command ? You just remember them from previous uses.  SameC >thing for those human being who morphed into Unix geeks. They justgG >learsn those -x switches and remember them. Just like you remember howi@ >to construct an english language sentence, they remember how to$ >construct a unix language sentence.  F The qualifiers on VMS are also English words  (and in general they areH consistent between commands). The qualifiers on UNIX are single upper orI lowercase letters and they are generally not consistent between commands.     
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:15:17 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS?*, Message-ID: <37bq3lF55pfgjU1@individual.net>  ? In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-7JdXurGcY1i5@dave2_os2.home.ours>, 5 	"Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> writes:1 > H > I do get your point. On the other hand to be submitting you'd have to H > know something about Batch queues. When you have that and you've been F > taught that jobs are submitted to batch queues, the command becomes 
 > intuitive. n  A Ummmm.....  Thingfs don't "become" intuitive when you learn about5 them, they become learned. 5  D intuitive adj 1: spontaneously derived from or prompted by a natural@ tendency; "an intuitive revulsion" 2: obtained through intuitionK rather than from reasoning or observation [syn: {nonrational}, {visceral}]    F >            I assume (don't know) that the same is true for using, I  > believe, cron on Unix. s  C Cron is the background task that manages scheduled jobs, not a usert command.  F >                         Maybe then, 'at' also becomes intuitive. As * > ever, everything depends on the context.  C Nothing about the user interface of computers is intuititve.  Apple*D tried to claim (in the early days when the Mac was new) that the useA of the mouse was somehow "intuitive".  That didn't turn out to bes? particularly true either.  Thus the reason they included a game.@ (puzzle) as part of the base system to get people to fiddle withB the mouse till they felt comfortable with it.  No one sits down atB any computer for the first time and is immediately productive.  ItG takes time to learn the basics of the system and no system is naturally F easier to learn than any other.  In most cases, "mother duck" syndromeD applies and whichever system one first becomes comfortable with willD become their favorite. (unless something occurs to turn them against it, like proselytizing!)   bill  n   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:24:38 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS? , Message-ID: <37bql6F55pfgjU2@individual.net>  , In article <37b67vF5anjakU1@individual.net>,- 	Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> writes:= > Larry Kilgallen wrote:A >> In article <A0OPd.1312$wt4.38@fe07.lga>, Z <Z@no.spam> writes:i >>   >>>David J Dachtera wrote: >>   >> y >>>>"rm" ... "DELETE"  >>>>"vi" ... "EDIT"u >>>>"cd" ... "SET DEFAULT" >>>>"ls" ... "DIRECTORY" >>>>"tar" ... "BACKUP" >>>>"cat" ... "TYPE" >>>>"man" ... "HELP" >>>>"ps" ... "SHOW SYSTEM" >>>>"lpr" ... "PRINT"o >>>>"at" ... "SUBMIT"cK >>>>(Guess you can tell that at some point I just looked at my HELP displaynC >>>>and picked out some of the more obviously "intuitive" UN*X-landF >>>>commands, eh? ;-)V >>>-K >>>Again, the VMS commands are more meaningful to you only because of your . >>>past VMS experience.m >> r >> gK >> No, actually the VMS commands are more meaningful due to past experience L >> with the English language.  Those from some countries might not find thatJ >> helpful, but unless David has been fooling us all this time, he is from >> the United States.L > J > And the qualifiers and meanings thereof are consistent across utilities 	 > on VMS.e > J > Anyone remember the subtle differences between the PDP utilities across H > RT-11, RSTS and RSX? I know I was once caught out by the fact that /Q L > for query (/CONFIRM on VMS) was the default on RT-11 PIP, but not on RSTS.  F Funny you should mention those OSes.  They pre-date VMS.  They startedH about the same time as Unix.  And they had commands like PIP, DUP, LIBR,H FILEX, SRCCOM, BINCOM, RESORC, ODT, SIPP and SLP.  And, guess what, theyH still do.  And these commands take single letter qualifiers.  Go figure.I Of course, over time they developed wrappers that let people use commandsoF like DIRECTORY and COPY with full word qualifiers like BRIEF, FREE andG SORT.  But the originals are still there and some of us still use them.o  C As I have said before, you can do the asme thing for Unix, but most- users opt not to.    bill   -- 0J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   .   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:42:29 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS?t, Message-ID: <37brmlF5bguptU1@individual.net>  6 In article <421095be$0$32615$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,9 	"Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes:iF > "Bradford J. Hamilton" <hamilton@Encompasserve.org> wrote in message+ > news:cuovtg$b5d$1@grandcanyon.binc.net...fF >> VMS is more intuitive than UNIX, but there are still some arbitrary	 > choicestJ >> here.  I don't remember much of PRIMOS, but I think that some of the CL > was.1 >> yet more intuitive.  bill g., care to comment?a >> > N > Don't know about Bill, but I found PRIMOS to be very intuative, as I do VMS.D > Of course most people hevily personailsed it with 'abbrev' anyway.  . None of it is intuitive, All of it is learned.   > ( > As for UNIX, well no it simply is not. > F > And UNIX arguments are not even worth a comparison of intuitiveness' > compared to VMS qualifiers.f  D Again, matter of opinion.  It should be noted, however, that this isC changing, even as we speak.  More and more Unix commands today haveeD full word qualifiers as well as the typical single letter one's many% of us ar familiar with and like.  :-)n   For example:  : cpio  {-o|--create} [-0acvABLV] [-C bytes] [-H format] [-MA        message]       [-O       [[user@]host:]archive]        [-F A        [[user@]host:]archive]      [--file=[[user@]host:]archive]pA        [--format=format] [--message=message]  [--null]  [--reset-iA        access-time]   [--verbose]  [--dot]  [--append]  [--block- A        size=blocks] [--dereference]  [--io-size=bytes]  [--quiet]lA        [--force-local]   [--help]   [--version]  <  name-list  [>f        archive]       0 I was going to post this, but you beat me to it.' But let's take a look at a few of them.p   >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (A) M > ABBREV Allows users to create and use abbreviations for PRIMOS commands and  > their arguments.N > ASRCWD Used only with serial I/O; ASRCWD 0 recovers a diverted terminal line   ^^^^^^  intuitive?. > from a serial printer, card reader or punch.F > ASSIGN User gains complete control over a disk or peripheral device.K > ATTACH Directory named by pathname, ufd-name, or name becomes the workingt > directory.K > AVAIL Gives disk usage statistics for the current disk. With no argument,aI > gives current disk. With pathname, or with disk number, gives specifiedu' > disk. With * gives all started disks.  >  >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (B) , > BASIC Runs the BASIC Language interpreter.2 > BASICV Runs the compiling, virtual-memory BASIC.< > BASINP Loads non-Prime BASIC from paper tape into pathname   ^^^^^^ intuitive? J > BATCH -DISPLAY Displays information on jobs being processed by the Batch > subsystem.D > BATGEN Lists name and status for each Batch queue, or displays the   ^^^^^^ intuitive?d8 > queuename, status, and characteristics for each queue.L > BINARY Opens pathname for writing on file unit 3 for output. Equivalent to > OPEN pathname 3 2. >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (C)oL > CLOSE Closes specified files and file units (except a COMOUTPUT file which > is closed by COMO -E)98 > CMPF Compares lines in up to five ASCII files, showing   ^^^^ intuitive?e+ > insertions/changes/deletions from file-a.(M > CNAME Changes name of file or directory. CNAME requires owner status to thed   ^^^^^^ intuitive?o > directory.  > COBOL Runs the COBOL compiler.L > COMINPUT Reads command input from pathname instead of terminal. Input fileI > unit is 6 (default) unless funit is specified. CLOSE ALL will close thetH > COMINPUT file-unit causing the error message, "Unit not open. Cominput > (Input from terminal)".oL > COMOUTPUT Sends output stream to file specified by pathname or file opened( > on unit '177. Not closed by CLOSE ALL.J > CONCAT Combines a number of input files into an output file suitable for > spooling.rG > CPL Invokes the CPL interpreter and executes the CPL program named by   > pathname.generate C flow graphN > CPMPC Punches the file pathname on ASSIGNEed card reader/ punch 0 or 1. Does" > not punch a $E end-of-file card.K > CREATE Creates a new directory as specified by pathname, with blank owner5B > and zero non-owner passwords. The protection keys are set to 7 0H > CRMPC Reads cards from parallel interface card reader 0 or 1 into file   ^^^^^^ intuitive?$9 > specified by pathname. Cards are translated into ASCII.  >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (D)K* > DATE Displays the current date and time.2 > DBASIC Runs double-precision interpretive BASIC.( > DBG Invokes the source level debugger.   ^^^^^^ intuitive? 7 > DEFINE_GVAR Activates the named global variable file.cG > DELAY Sets terminal delay characteristics. Can be set prior to LOGIN. @ > DELETE Deletes pathname (either a file or an empty directory).M > DELETE_VAR Deletes the named variables from an active global variable file..' > Variable names may be wildcard names. L > DELSEG Deassigns a segment. The ALL option releases all segments belonging
 > to user.L > DMSTK The DMSTK command produces a call/return trace of the user's command   ^^^^^^ intuitive?C, > loop stack and Static Mode stack (if any). >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (E)E  > ED Edits existing or new file.I > EDB The binary editor is used for building and maintaining libraries ofg   ^^^^^^ intuitive?  > subroutines. >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (F)y" > F77 Invokes FORTRAN 77 compiler.H > FILEMEM Clears contents of user address space to zeros for unsegmented   ^^^^^^ intuitive?  > programs.s= > FILVER Compares two files. Prints out differances in octal.m   ^^^^^^ intuitive?k > FTN Invokes FORTRAN compiler.nN > FUTIL FUTIL is the interactive file manipulation utility. It responds with a   ^^^^^^ intuitive?y2 > prompt character, >, and waits for sub-commands. >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (H)sM > HDXSTAT Displays the current status of all lines and sites of a half duplexm   ^^^^^^ intuitive?t > (HDX) network configuration.N > HPSD HPSD loads a version of PSD (Prime Symbolic Debugger) that is stored in   ^^^^^^ intuitive?0 > the upper portion of memory. >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (I)R@ > INPUT Opens pathname for reading on file unit 1. Equivilant to > OPEN filename 1 1  >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (J)h4 > JOB Submits and controls jobs for Batch execution. >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (L)sN > LABEL Creates an ANSI COBOL level 1 volume label on a magnetic tape or reads= > an existing label. The magnetic tape unit must be ASSIGNed.,L > LATE Requests a time in 24-hour HHMM format at which the next command willG > be processed. If the specified time is earlier than the current time,,L > execution is deferred until the following day. The terminal cannot be used7 > for any other purpose until after the time specified.lN > LISTF Displays current directory name, logical drive and names of all files,N > sub-UFDs and segment directories in the current directory. Displays OWNER or( > NONOWNer status for current directory.@ > LISTING Opens a file for writing on file unit 2. Equivalent to > OPEN pathname 2 2.G > LIST_VAR Lists named variables and their values from an active global 5 > variable file. Variable name may be wildcard names. F > LOAD Invokes the Linking Loader. LOAD loads programs for R-mode codeM > generated by PMA, FORTRAM or RPGII. To load segmented code, use the commandt > SEG.$ > LOGIN Log in to specified ufdname.& > LOGOUT Log out user or phantom user. >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (M)BF > MAGNET MAGNET is an interactive magnetic tape utility that transfers   ^^^^^^ intuitive?B@ > non-Prime-format magnetic tapes to and from PRIMOS disk files.K > MAGRST Restores files, directory-trees or partitions from a magnetic tapes   ^^^^^^ intuitive?e6 > created with MAGSAV. The tape unit must be ASSIGNed.G > MAGSAV Writes a PRIMOS disk file, directory-tree or partition to 7 or-   ^^^^^^ intuitive?n8 > 9-track magnetic tape. The tape unit must be ASSIGNed.2 > MDL Memory dump/load to/from punched paper tape.   ^^^^^^ intuitive? J > MESSAGE Waits for one line of text and sends it to operator's or another > user's console.e2 > MRGF Merged up to five files into a single file.   ^^^^^^ intuitive?- >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (N) 8 > NCOBOL Invokes the non-shared (R-mode) COBOL compiler.A > NETLINK Connects user to any system on the Public Data Network.19 > NSED NSED is the non-shared version of the text editor.b   ^^^^^^ intuitive?6: > NUMBER Numbers/re-numbers statements in a BASIC program. >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (O) J > OPEN Opens specified pathname on specified unit. Type of file and access > mode are specifed as well. >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (P)o% > PASCAL Invokes the PASCAL compiler.nM > PASSWD Changes owner and non-owner passwords of current directory (only for  > user attached as owner).K > PHANTOM Runs the command file or CPL program specified as a phantom user.o, > PL1G Invokes the PL/1, Subset G, compiler.4 > PM Displays contents of RVEC user register vector.   ^^^^^^ intuitive?-& > PMA Invokes Prime's Macro Assembler.   ^^^^^^ intuitive?eL > PRERR Displays ERRVEC messages set by ERRSET and first six octal locations= > in ERRVEC or prints ERRVEC and last error message. ObsoleteMI > PRMPG Prints specified pathname on MPG parallel interface printer (PR0)t > previously ASSIGNed.M > PROP Tells users which printers and/or plotetrs are running, and what theiry > environments are. : > PROTEC Sets protection rights on the specified pathname.H > PRSER Prints the specified pathname on serial ineterface printer (CEN) > previously ASSIGNed.G > PRVER Prints the specified pathname on a configured printer/ plotter.r* > PSD Invokes the Prime Symbolic Debugger.   ^^^^^^ intuitive?nI > PTCPY Duplicates and verifies paper tape, using the previously assignedl4 > high-speed paper tape reader and paper tape punch. >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (R) N > RDY Allows users to choose prompt message to be displayed at their terminals   ^^^^^^ intuitive?t > and in their COMOUTPUT files.yJ > RESTOR Restores runfile contained in the specified pathname into memory.E > RESUME Runs (restores and starts) external program contained in theo > specified pathname.c& > RLS Discards unwanted stack history.   ^^^^^^ intuitive?o' > RPG Invokes the Prime RPGII Compiler.eA > RSTERM Empties the user terminal's input and/or output buffers. - > RUNOFF Invokes Prime RUNOFF text processor.  >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (S)-F > SAVE Saves memory (segment '4000) from sa (start address) to ea (end > address) as a file.eN > SEG Invokes a utility for loading, modifying, running, and sharing segmented > (V-mode) programs.K > SET_VAR At command level, defines a global variable and places it and itsr$ > value in the global variable file.L > SIZE Displays data size of specified pathname in normalized records, which > is words/440, rounded up.iK > SLIST Prints (or displays) the contents of a file at the user's terminal.r   ^^^^^^ intuitive? ; > SORT Sorts ASCII, variable length, or fixed length files.E6 > SPOOL Queues disk files for line printer or plotter.L > START Starts execution. Initializes process registers and keys, and startsD > execution at pc. Assumes that a program is in memory. If pc is not8 > specified, execution resumes at point of interruption.( > STATUS Displays user or system status.N > SVCSW Sets SVC switch, which controls handling of the SVC instruction in the > virtual memory environment.e >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (T))E > TERM Sets terminal characteristics. (Resets to defaults on logout.)eM > TIME Displays connect time (in hours and minutes), and compute and disk I/Oo! > times (in minutes and seconds).eL > TRAMLC Transmits or receives a file over an assigned AMLC line between two   ^^^^^^ intuitive?  > Prime computer systems.-D > TYPE Prints text at user's terminal or into a command output file. >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (U)uJ > UNASSIGN Releases a device (or communications line) previously ASSIGNed.L > UPCASE Replaces lower case letters in the specifed file with corresponding > upper case letters.i) > USERS Displays number of current users.D >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS (V) @ > VPSD, VPSD16 Invokes the Virtual-mode Prime Symbolic Debugger.I > VRTSSW Sets a user's virtual sense switches, which are available to theYE > user's program via the INA '1620 (read sense switches) instruction.e >  > PRIMOS COMMANDS ($$)N > $$ JOB Controls submission and execution of batch jobs. Must appear as first > line in job file.m  E Many of them are shortened words like Unix uses.  Some of them appearoF to be little more than random strings, unless you are already familiar with PRIMOS.   bill   -- gJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:44:39 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS?S, Message-ID: <37brqnF5bguptU2@individual.net>  ) In article <cuq6r7$qhe$2@news.mdx.ac.uk>,e! 	david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:.t > In article <1108333457.7c6d0cf73029e7e414fcc4c3b17b101d@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >>David J Dachtera wrote:e >>> "rm" ... "DELETE"b
 >>					REMOVEd >>> "vi" ... "EDIT"o$ >>					VI is a "brand name" editor.  >> >>> "cd" ... "SET DEFAULT"7 >>					This is de facto standard on most platforms now,  >>>  >>> "ls" ... "DIRECTORY"( >>					Comes from "LIST" (list of files) >>> "tar" ... "BACKUP"= >>					TAR is a well known backup format now. Not so obscure.- >> >>> "cat" ... "TYPE"D >>					Comes from Concatenate. (think APPEND myfile.dat sys$output:) >>> "man" ... "HELP"
 >>					MANUALe >>> "ps" ... "SHOW SYSTEM"" >>					ok, so that one is obscure. >>> "lpr" ... "PRINT"rD >>					Line Printer. (and LPR is now a well known printer protocol)_ >> >>B >>Once you knwo the meaning of the commands, they really aren't soI >>obscure.  And just how do you remember all the qualifiers available forKE >>each VMS command ? You just remember them from previous uses.  SamenD >>thing for those human being who morphed into Unix geeks. They justH >>learsn those -x switches and remember them. Just like you remember howA >>to construct an english language sentence, they remember how toi% >>construct a unix language sentence.k > H > The qualifiers on VMS are also English words  (and in general they areJ > consistent between commands). The qualifiers on UNIX are single upper orK > lowercase letters and they are generally not consistent between commands.n >   D See my previous post on this subject.  While that may have been trueD originally, even Unix commands are changing.  Probably because thereA are more and more people using it for whom the Unix system is nota something familiar.A   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:04:05 -0800i% From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com>e Subject: Re: grep on openVMS?o7 Message-ID: <3f119ada0502140904246ec6e1@mail.gmail.com>l  	 JF Mezei:e > Beach Runner wrote:  > > Oh Yes,t4 > > GREP is a much more human interface than Search. > J > And the MAC's "find" menu is far more human friendly than SEARCH on VMS.  F Now you're comparing apples to pomegranates, GUI features to CLI. (AndC if you want to talk about the CLI on a mac, you're talking *nix...)e   Bradford J Hamilton: >DJD:a >>> "cd" ... "SET DEFAULT"C >Devil's advocate - "CHANGE DIRECTORY" is much more intuitive here.S  E Neither makes sense to someone who has no grasp of what a "directory"c< is. At this point, if they're coming from a PC (or mac?) GUIB background, they're more likely to know "folder" than "directory".  F GO or GOTO makes as much sense at that phase. Too bad there are issues  with that in DCL, or I'd use it.   >> "tar" ... "BACKUP".F >               TAR is a well known backup format now. Not so obscure.  > Tar is what you put on asphalt roads or maybe your roof. Nasty smelling black stuff.s  A SAVE might work for a command to place a copy of a file someplacet- where it's less likely to be changed/deleted.r  E RUN .... to do something; add AFTER if you want it to start later on.s  F VMS commands seem to me to be closer to natural language. If I were to@ try to teach my SO or her 13 year old, neither of whom have muchF experience outside point'n'drool, to use *nix or VMS, I imagine better; success with VMS. Surely there have been usability studies?N  B But really- who sits a complete novice down and walks off? You sitC them by someone's elbow who's done the job for years. At the end ofo7 the training, neither of them will know *why* they typeh     SET DEF SYS$MYAPP <return>   @STARTAPP <return>  A before they can start work- they'll just know that's what they doeD (assuming that's not in their login script, which it probably should be).  F if you want to talk about *developers*, that's a different can of clamD chowder. I expect if I started working in *nix more than the playing= around I do now, it wouldn't take me long to get comfortable.,  D As for the topic at hand, I find grep and SEARCH both have strengths and weaknesses.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 04:14:54 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>n" Subject: Happy Valentines to Sue !B Message-ID: <1108371784.7655dbd916fbf359045494f23f55d647@teranews>  F A very happy Valentines Day to Sue and all other female workers in the
 VMS group.  G Every VMS engineer should take a few moments to find Sue and give her ae8 few kisses on behalf of the comp.os.vms participants :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2005 05:43:36 -0800! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com & Subject: Re: Happy Valentines to Sue !C Message-ID: <1108388616.573759.151710@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>o  ' Sounds like its going to be a good day.h   Suea   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:34:18 +0000 (UTC)u From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk6 Subject: Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend....) Message-ID: <cuq5sa$qhe$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>t  K In article <87mzu9cze2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com writes:m+ >bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >m0 >> In article <87fz03jdrs.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,! >> 	prep@prep.synonet.com writes: 1 >>> young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:i > C >>>> In article <q_iOd.68235$K72.8342776@twister.southeast.rr.com>, = >>>> "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> writes:m >  .7 >>>>> How may people watch the Superbowl?  60 million? p > 3 >>>> http://www.superbowl.com/features/general_info  > B >>>> Super Bowl XXXVIII TV audience: Last year's game was the most< >>>> watched program ever with 144.4 million viewers. The 10= >>>> most-watched programs in TV history are all Super Bowls.r > * >>> More than Apollo 11? I don't think so. >fD >> I know it's hard for modern civilized man to even comprehend lifeF >> without television, but I can assure you that at the time of ApolloB >> 11 there were a lot fewer TV's in both the world and the USofA.G >> Satellite TV wasn't even a gleam in some inventors eye.  Most of the G >> world didn't get to watch it live and neither did a lot of people inm >> the states.  (I didn't!!) >c7 >OK, I'll add you to Collins for the `didn't see' list.t > D >I can't remember if we had a TV or not, `69 was the year we got one0 >but I can't remember if it was before or after. >mC >We walked out of school, en masse, and spent the day wastching theu@ >whole thing. I think the coverage went non stop through to 7pm,
 >1300 GMT. >M  8 As I recall TV was pretty widespread in Britain by 1969.M Just about everybody at school had a TV at home (either purchased or rented). L I don't think that Colour TV was very widespread but you didn't need that to watch the Apollo 11 coverage.s      
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >-- = >Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,e8 >+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.A >                                             West Australia 6076D+ >comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdotf/ >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.wG >EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:03:24 +0100o* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>6 Subject: Re: Is $3 million really so much to spend...., Message-ID: <37c7fdF5c9lmnU1@individual.net>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:L   <snip>   > : > As I recall TV was pretty widespread in Britain by 1969.O > Just about everybody at school had a TV at home (either purchased or rented). N > I don't think that Colour TV was very widespread but you didn't need that to > watch the Apollo 11 coverage.  >   I I can recall watching it on a B&W TV then retiring to bed, where I could aE hear the commentary from my neighbours' TV (it must have been a warm I- day, as they were watching it in the garden).i  F Colour TV came to our house in time for Princess Anne's wedding (late L 1973), and was firmly rented, since they had a reputation for unreliability.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:32:30 -0500.# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t! Subject: Re: More HP should...... , Message-ID: <Z42dnePR8qscK43fRVn-oA@igs.net>   Dave Froble wrote: > John Smith wrote:A >o >>D >> Nearly $5k isn't such a low cost system at the low-end. It may be* >> for an Itanic, but not for the legions. >o > Half that for developers.O >T4 > Which is still 5 times what an x86 can be had for. >AA > The other side of that is, what can one do with a $500 PC.  The F > Microsoft developer stuff isn't cheap.  It's my understanding that aD > developer gets media and stuff for free.  Not sure about licenses.  J Basic licences for the MSDN (Developer Network) run ~$1-3,000 per year forG just about everything that MS has. It includes a certain amount of techt support too./ http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/subscribers/d  I There are other deal MS offers too, for under $500 p.a. for their o/s andr? layered apps. Just add your own tin. And all these licences arei commercial-use, not hobbyist.N    9 > Maybe the itanic for development isn't such a bad deal.L  * It's still to expensive for mass adoption.  I Look at the model.....in the PC world nobody besides Dell makes money (orBI very much money) on low-end PC's - the bulk of the money is made on bladet servers and Xeon servers.n  K Translation: a 'loss leader' or low-margin product is used to create demandRL for higher-margin products. It also ensures that there is a continual supplyH of software to support the varied demands of a broad range of customers,K some of whom will buy your expensive servers.Even if you just break-even on J it, it can be thought of as a cost of marketing - which generally cost youC money (freebie golf balls, t-shirts just like the VMS one they gaveR carly(tm), etc...)         --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.E   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:15:50 -0600d( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)& Subject: Mounting disks during STARTUP1 Message-ID: <05021412155024@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>,   VMS V7.2-1h1 Alpha< I mount various disks drives in the following command files:     SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM   SYS$MANAGER:SYPAGSWPFILES.COMa   SYS$MANAGER:SYSECURITY.COM   SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COMi     (basic order of startup)  I In all cases, the disks being mounted are always online as they are beinga@ served by HSG80 controllers - so there is not spin-up wait time.  O I started thinking why not mount all the disk drives in one command file rathertM than the multiple locations as is now.  I was thinking that either one of theP* following would be ideal for this purpose:     SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COM   SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM  1 I am aware that if I use SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COMp& I would need to execute the following:  &   $ MCR SYSMAN SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE  C The reason to use SYCONFIG is to keep the startup strategy in tact.b   By Startup Strategy I mean:R-   - in SYLOGICALS perform logical definitions 5   - in SYPAGESWPFILES perform page/swap file installss   - etc.  N I tend to believe that there should be a separate startup process for mountingI disks - since most everything you do at startup requires not only CPU and N Memory but Disk drives as well.  Pretty much a rudimentary requirement to have5 your disk drives mounted prior to completing startup.e    4 Any thoughts on using either SYCONFIG or SYLOGICALS?    @ Anyone doing something similar they would care to share with us?     TIAI     John "REBOOT" Brandon  VMS Systems Administrators* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:41:37 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com>o( Subject: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution7 Message-ID: <RE3Qd.10698$H05.6999@twister.nyroc.rr.com>y  1 My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today.a  J You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on it. :)   -Jeff    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2005 17:52:40 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) , Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution! Message-ID: <PigWQxOSQGBz@sinead>i  i In article <RE3Qd.10698$H05.6999@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> writes:u3 > My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today.  > L > You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on it. > :)   Fine !!p  2 Is there also a new version of the freeware CD's ?   Patrick  --O ===============================================================================lN pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================2   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:50:06 GMTw" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution0 Message-ID: <00A3F61C.2BF669F4@SendSpamHere.ORG>  i In article <RE3Qd.10698$H05.6999@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> writes:O2 >My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. >"K >You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on it.    Why would that make me happy?o     -- C< http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  -- a, Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   -- nK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:30:10 GMTo/ From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com>t, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution7 Message-ID: <S66Qd.10762$H05.7582@twister.nyroc.rr.com>b  G "Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40" <pmoreau@ath.cena.fr>t, wrote in message news:PigWQxOSQGBz@sinead...H > In article <RE3Qd.10698$H05.6999@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, "Jeff Goodwin"" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> writes:5 > > My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today.r > >eJ > > You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo on it.  > > :) >i	 > Fine !!d > 4 > Is there also a new version of the freeware CD's ?   It has Freeware V7 in it.4   >7	 > Patrick  > -- >oL ============================================================================ ===jH > pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)>6 > moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J > CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __K > BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__|  |  |K > 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  |v |__|" > http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/" http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/ > L ============================================================================ ===y   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:39:47 -0500n# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>v, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution, Message-ID: <J8idnaF5IITrbY3fRVn-vw@igs.net>   John Reagan wrote: > Jeff Goodwin wrote:i4 >> My OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution arrived today. >>F >> You'll all be happy to know that the box has a Java Compatible logo >> on it. :) >> >> -Jeff >> >> > G > Great, I've been needing a box that is Java Compatible, my old one is  > wearing out. :-)    E Just in Time - my Java box is almost empty (Costa Rican Tirazu - finet grind). ;-)e   --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:23:46 -0500p< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>M Subject: Re: regular expression support on OpenVMS (was Re: grep on openVMS?)t, Message-ID: <37c554F5bvirtU1@individual.net>   Craig A. Berry wrote:  >... > /WILDCARD=TRADITIONAL (D)n > /WILDCARD=REGEXl > G > Or, if you prefer, PATTERN instead of WILDCARD.  As far as I can see,pG > there is currently in SEARCH no capability for matching file contentse? > against patterns of any kind, even traditional VMS wildcards.t >...  E V8.2 has added /WILDCARD_MATCHING to SEARCH. Allowing us to use the *r and the % in the search string.o   -- i Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXy www.weaverconsulting.can   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:10:23 -0500-( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> Subject: Re: SLS dead./ Message-ID: <00A3F5FD.7AB6F302.2@tachysoft.com>o  & >Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 12:08:03 -06003 >From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>l& >Reply-To: djesysno@spam.earthlink.net >Organization: DJE Systems >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >Subject: Re: SLS dead   >  >Wayne Sewell wrote: >>   >> >From: <Usenet> >> >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms. >> >Subject: SLS dead.) >> >Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:03:34 +0100> >> >X-Priority: 3" >> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normalc >> . >> >E >> >From the last OpenVMS roadmap PDF document, dated february 2005 :I >> >N >> >Storage Library System V2.9J (Q1 2005) will contain support for VMS V7.3-2 >> >L >> >and V8.2 on Alpha Only. Subsequent releases will concentrate on remedial
 >> >fixes andm >> >N >> >support for new versions of OpenVMS. There will be no support for new tape >> >devices  >> >M >> >after V2.9H timeframe, and no new features will be introduced. No port ton >> >Integrity is >> > >> >planned. >> > >> >M >> >This looks like a complete change of directions for this product. And fors! >> >me, it looks like a disaster, / >> >specially the decision to abandon the port.n >> >O >> >I got this info from the abovementionned PDF document, distributed to me in  >> >through an unofficialeL >> >channel. The info did not appear anywhere else I know. But kindlt asked, >> >H.P. confirmed. HowtA >> >many other customers are impacted but still not aware of it ?R >> >I >> >A fellow H.P. employee urged me to write my concerns and disagreement  >> >directly to Mark Gorham,J >> >which I will do. Perhaps other impacted customers should do the same ? >> > >> > >> >Marc Van Dyck. >> > >>  R >> The TAPESYS port to itanium is in progress.  The itanium builds have been done, >> now in the testing stage. >> eO >> This is the closest functional equivalent to SLS, though it is a third-party Q >> product.  The original SLS actually *was* TAPESYS, taken from a snapshot of ansN >> much earlier version.  The two products have diverged since then, but still >> have many similarities. >oE >If/when Cerner gets the "warm fuzzies" for whatever Enterprise ClasskE >Itanic machines, looks like I'll be talking to you and your folks atiH >SP32 for on-going support of our backups using StorageTek libraries, if. >SLS on I64 is not to be. (ABS is not usable.) >-  N For you and everyone else currently running SLS, the following from Phil might
 be pertinent:h  G Software Partners wrote the original SLS, which DEC bought around 1988.dF Software Partners continued on with the original TAPESYS, and has beenD in the business of selling, supporting, and enhancing it ever since.F It's really all we do, so of course we're going to Itanium with it. InF fact, we're developing a program to convert SLS users who want to haveD the same functionality on Itanium. You can convert to TAPESYS (we'llF make it as easy as possible) and gain the new functionality of TAPESYS5 and lose little if anything in your daily operations.n  
 Phil Jamiesont Software Partners, Inc.y 447 Old Boston RoadM Topsfield, MA 01983p 978.887.6409 x102a PhilJ@SoftwarePartners.com "We Backup VMS"i    O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   uO ===============================================================================iP Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.090 ************************