0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 16 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 93      Contents:N "SSH <command>" from .COM: FATAL: ssh_io_register_fd: fd 3 already registered!P Re: ANOUNCEMENT: zsplit, unzsplit: free linux tools to make a full drive image b) Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance ) Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance ) Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance ) Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance ) Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance ) Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance ) Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance ) Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance ) Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance ) Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance ) Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? ) Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? ) Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? 3 Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users 3 Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users 3 Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users 3 Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users 3 Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users 3 Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users 3 Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users 3 Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users  Re: Fixing Carly's Mess  Re: Fixing Carly's Mess  Re: Fixing Carly's Mess  Re: Fixing Carly's Mess  Re: Fixing Carly's Mess  Re: Fixing Carly's Mess  Re: grep on openVMS? Re: grep on openVMS? Guy Peleg: More wish list items  Re: IBM Linux and Universities Re: LAN Failover RE: LAN Failover1 Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions ! Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP ! Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP ! Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP ! Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP ! Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP   Re: NFS mounts to Solaris Server# Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution # Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution % OT:  Where do you get your News feed? ) Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed? ) Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed? ) Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed? ) Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?  pgp for vms  Re: pgp for vms  Re: pgp for vms  Quorum disk in EVA Re: Quorum disk in EVA Re: Quorum disk in EVA Re: Quorum disk in EVA rx5670 for $2K Re: rx5670 for $2K SONO A PRIX DISCOUNT& Re: Strange (to me) ACP lookup failure@ Re: Superfluous Responses  WAS Re: DCL command to show number ofN Superfluous Responses  WAS Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users This Really Works! This Really Works! This Really Works!8 Re: What universities (and the IT Branch) could be doing8 Re: What universities (and the IT Branch) could be doing$ Re: Where do you get your News feed?- Re: [O.T?] Strange (to me) ACP lookup failure   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:51:16 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)W Subject: "SSH <command>" from .COM: FATAL: ssh_io_register_fd: fd 3 already registered! 2 Message-ID: <05021517511642_2780027A@antinode.org>  <    Sorry to interrupt the HP management discussions, but ...  F    I complained about this a while ago, when I was running TCPIP V5.3,C but as it persisted after a TCPIP upgrade, I thought I'd re-whine.   First, the preliminaries:    alp $ type %sh_test.com    ALP$DKA0:[SMS]RSH_TEST.COM;1   $ rsh alp "show default"   ALP$DKA0:[SMS]SSH_TEST.COM;1   $ ssh alp "show default"   alp $ tcpip show vers   ;   HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 4 4   on a AlphaStation 200 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.3-1      Now for the real fun:   alp $ @ RSH_TEST.COM   ALP$DKA0:[SMS]   alp $ @ SSH_TEST.COM3 FATAL: ssh_io_register_fd: fd 3 already registered!   6 %TCPIP-F-SSH_FATAL, non-specific fatal error condition  >    It sure would be handy if SSH worked as well as RSH in thisG situation.  Interactively (not in a command procedure), SSH is happier, G although one could still whimper about the "Authentication successful." D clutter, and the fact that it hangs until the user hits the Any key:   alp $ ssh alp "show default" Authentication successful.     ALP$DKA0:[SMS]' [Hangs here until a key-press, then...]  alp $   +    This is all better in TCPIP V5.5, right?   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 14:40:49 -08003 From: jurij@device-image.de (jurij@device-image.de) Y Subject: Re: ANOUNCEMENT: zsplit, unzsplit: free linux tools to make a full drive image b = Message-ID: <357c3f33.0502151440.4c9cf48a@posting.google.com>   } vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) wrote in message news:<4211c4d7$1@merkur.rz.uni-konstanz.de>... > > In article <357c3f33.0502150036.d20e051@posting.google.com>,7 > jurij@device-image.de (jurij@device-image.de) writes: 4 > >Please visit the homepage of DeviceImage-Project: > >http://www.device-image.de  > > G > >Disk images provide a powerful backup-restore solution and are exact I > >copies of your hard drive which are created by using low level byte by F > >byte copy operation. So even if your drive goes bad, you will still; > >have an entire copy of your system that you can restore.  > > + > >zsplit and unsplit are Linux utilities.  G > >zsplit is a command line imager, which allows you to create an exact H > >disk image. Finally it compresses the output image file and splits itG > >into chunks of defined size to fit exactly the size of storage media  > >(CD, DVD or HDD). > > I > >unzsplit is a command line restore tool. It restores files produced by I > >zsplit to its origin, i.e. splitted and compressed image files will be E > >uncompressed, tied together and restored to the original device or 
 > >partition.  > >  > >Key Features :  > >  > >1. runs under GNU/Linux OS  > > I > >2. creates images from FAT16, FAT16X, FAT32, FAT32X, NTFS (MS Windows- H > >95, -98, -Me, -NT4, -2000, -XP), Linux Ext2, Linux Ext3, ReiserFS and > >Linux swap partitions.  > > G > >3. is able to create images from Very Large Files or devices (tested  > >with 200 Gygabyte devices)  > > F > >4. output image files can be compressed to various density (900 MiBF > >(megabyte binary) FAT32 partition can be compressed to 350 - 400 MB > >and can be stored on one CD)  > > C > >5. output image file can be splitted into pieces of defined size  > > H > >6. in case of partially damaged devices, blocks and/or sectors safely% > >reads all remaining intact sectors  > > F > >7. supports non-seekable input and output (so you can use pipes for > >stdin and/or stdout)  > > 4 > >Please visit the homepage of DeviceImage-Project: > >http://www.device-image.de  > >  >  > Jurij, > 2 > This program has no chance to run under OpenVMS. > J > There is a freeware program called DVDarchive/restore that does this job > under OpenVMS. > E > If you use DVDwrite or cdrecord for OpenVMS in combination with the I > program mentioned above you have the complete suite to archive the same & > volume size of 200 GB you mentioned. > 
 > Eberhard > ) > see: http://home.tiscali.de/dvd4openvms    Hi Eberhard, thank you for the info !   Regards, Jurij    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:48:03 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 2 Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance- Message-ID: <87oeelirrw.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   , "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:  G > We would like to establish to OpenVMS sites, each with their own SAN. 1 > We want the data to be replicated in real time.   < > The 2 sites will be at each end of a big processing plant.  5 How do you define `big'? As moderatly large as Texas?   A > Can someone give me pointers on how to setup the configuration? F > Ideally we would like the 2 VMS nodes in a VMScluster (not just as aE > failover option). Users could connect to either node, but if room A A > explodes, the computer in room B should continue to operate and C > serve users.  Of course users connected to the room A node, would  > have to reconnect.  F Read the Cluster Config manuals in the doc set, at least twice! Second# time, take note and note questions.   
 > Diagram:  ' > AlphaVMS "A"             AlphaVMS "B" 0 >      |                                       |0 >      |                                       |  > SAN "A"----------------SAN "B"  F > If room A explodes, the link between the 2 SAN's is lost, but Room B  > continues to operate normally.  E You need a link for the SAN, and a link for the cluster coms. Pulling D 20 fibres costs almost no more that one. Having redundant likes thatA go via *TOTALLY* different routes is a VERY good idea. Also going  for a 3 way config is easier.   > > How would the replication work? Will the 2 SAN do it betweenC > themselves (with VMS not really aware of the process)? That is my C > guess, as shown in the diagram.  With fiber optics, how far apart B > can the 2 sites be? (it will be within 1000 feet I believe but IB > don't have the shop plan).  Do I need another VMS box to get the	 > quorum?   C You set it up so all your disks are shadowed to at least two sites. = All writes go to all members all the time. Nuke one room, and F <configurable number> of secs later you are still running with NO dataE loss. There are several ways you can configure the systems, depending @ on what you priorities are. 1000' is a dodle, 1000 miles is more
 interesting.    = > Any pointers to documentation, or your comments about known  > installations, are welcome.   C Curtin Uni used to have a cluster of Alphas and Vaxen. One weekend, D power to one computer room dropped, and no one noticed. Well, almost no one.   % Remember, measure twice, cut once! ;)   ? You need to do a lot of work on how you are going to distribute ? your SW, how it will failover, and on and on. Also consider how ? you would be if plant engineering wants to rip out the power to 1 one of your computer rooms and improve it, etc...   @ A big issue is how do you backup your data so it can be restored! in a usefull way. RDB helps here.   < I can point you to some people who have run plants this way. --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:17:03 -0500 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance4 Message-ID: <AUrQd.3008$df.109670@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   Hi   Thanks for your input on this.I As for the location of the 2 sites, I know it's not ideal but I'm not the F decision maker. Just trying to help them build a workable environment.  B I will put together some notes based on the comments I get and the9 documentation/presentations suggested by all who respond.   9 My main concern now is now more with the quorum question. G Here I have what I believe is 3 voting members: 2 Alphas and one quorum  disk. L If I lose one Alpha I still have quorums all is well. But the same cannot be made with the other config. I I'll read some more on this (hopefully there is some info in the proposed 8 links in this thread). Mayhap they will need a 3rd site.  E About users needing to reconnect: the software used will not be fault J tolerant in this way. We will not invest on this and this problem is known and understood.    Regards,   --   Syltrem    OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:22:51 -0500 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>2 Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance, Message-ID: <37f0geF5ap6dkU1@individual.net>   Syltrem wrote: >...; > My main concern now is now more with the quorum question. B > Here I have what I believe is 3 voting members: 2 Alphas and one > quorum disk.D > If I lose one Alpha I still have quorums all is well. But the same' > cannot be made with the other config. B > I'll read some more on this (hopefully there is some info in theC > proposed links in this thread). Mayhap they will need a 3rd site.  > ...   H You do need a third site, but any old VMS box (VAX, Alpha, IA64) will do, as long as you have a Cluster license on it.   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:58:15 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>2 Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance: Message-ID: <rvsQd.314$DC6.202@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>  J A quorum disk can only exist at one location.  If one node and your quorumK disk "mysteriously vaporize" your other node will not have quorum.  For the L seamless fail over you describe you probably want a third site, which can be? a low end system, DS10 or XP1000 for example to provide quorum.   C Another option, if you can stand the service interruption, is using K Availablity Manager/AMDS to manually force quorum to be recalcuated "on the L fly."  If you do this, you need to be absolutely sure the other site is downL before using this option, and work out how the down site wil lbe restored toJ service.  You don't ever want to create a partioned cluster, or process onL one stand alone site, then process on the other stand alone site then try to restore both sites.    --       Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mail     5 "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote in message . news:AUrQd.3008$df.109670@tor-nn1.netcom.ca... > Hi >   > Thanks for your input on this.K > As for the location of the 2 sites, I know it's not ideal but I'm not the H > decision maker. Just trying to help them build a workable environment. > D > I will put together some notes based on the comments I get and the; > documentation/presentations suggested by all who respond.  > ; > My main concern now is now more with the quorum question. I > Here I have what I believe is 3 voting members: 2 Alphas and one quorum  > disk. K > If I lose one Alpha I still have quorums all is well. But the same cannot  be > made with the other config. K > I'll read some more on this (hopefully there is some info in the proposed : > links in this thread). Mayhap they will need a 3rd site. > G > About users needing to reconnect: the software used will not be fault L > tolerant in this way. We will not invest on this and this problem is known > and understood.  > 
 > Regards, >  > --  	 > Syltrem  >   > OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4J > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)' > ---zulu is not in my email address---  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:17:11 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>2 Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance, Message-ID: <37f76nF5d147rU1@individual.net>   prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:   > G > You need a link for the SAN, and a link for the cluster coms. Pulling F > 20 fibres costs almost no more that one. Having redundant likes thatC > go via *TOTALLY* different routes is a VERY good idea. Also going   > for a 3 way config is easier.  >   D And bundling spare cables into the installation provides for future  expansion at little cost.   F You should also plan cable routes to avoid hazardous areas (e.g. fire G risks asscociated with kitchens, fuel lines etc). Fork lift trucks can  D also be dangerous; at one place I worked a fork lift had apparently @ crashed into a wall and taken a load of cabling out as a result.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:43:18 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster toleranceB Message-ID: <1108503095.ba8eabbf9de997039cfb38d32d05fb69@teranews>   Syltrem wrote:A > Can someone give me pointers on how to setup the configuration? F > Ideally we would like the 2 VMS nodes in a VMScluster (not just as aE > failover option). Users could connect to either node, but if room A N > explodes, the computer in room B should continue to operate and serve users.H > Of course users connected to the room A node, would have to reconnect.  D With only 2 nodes, you need a third "node" for quorum. This can be aF quorum disk. However, in your scenario,  you need to consider the caseF where terrorists use a  backhoe to cut the cables between the 2 rooms.C (are backhoes used for anything else but cut telecom wires ???? :-)   F You then end up with 2 working VMS nodes with each node thinking it isC the other node that failed. And this is very very bad and the whole  point or quorum.  F You will need someone to tell the surviving node that it has quorum by+ manually advisting its votes and or quorum.   
 > Diagram: > ' > AlphaVMS "A"             AlphaVMS "B"  >      |                      |  >      |                      |   > SAN "A"----------------SAN "B"    = You need to consider also what happens when the connection is H re-established. If you rely on the SANs to do the volume shadowing, makeH damned sure that the SANs have a way to know which of the drives acts asG the source and which acts as target of the coipy/merge/update operation # to bring the drives back into sync.   G With the VMS host based shadowing, this is part of the clustering since E quorum will freeze one machine, the drives controlled by that machine H will be "older" than the drives controlled by the surviving node so whenG they are reconnected, VMS knows exactly which one disk is the live copy  and which one is older.   D If  you rely on the SANs, you need to make damned sure that the SANsH have the same exact quorum scheme to ensure that a SAN unit goes down at1 the exact same moment as the VMS node next to it.   G Again, you need to look at all possible failure modes. For instance, if G you use ethernet for SCS traffic, and fibre for the SAN stuff, consider A what happens when either of the two becomes inop, consider if the F ethernet card on one VMS machine goes and all the impact it has on not* only SCS traffic, but also LAT, TCPIP etc.  N > With fiber optics, how far apart can the 2 sites be? (it will be within 10001 > feet I believe but I don't have the shop plan).   ! With fibre, 1000 feet is peanuts.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:22:55 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster toleranceB Message-ID: <1108505466.43ac4beba01c6b556d8817d32778c432@teranews>   Syltrem wrote:I > Here I have what I believe is 3 voting members: 2 Alphas and one quorum  > disk.   A Can anyone confirm whether quorum disks can be on shadowed sets ?   B If the backhoe cuts the wires between the 2 rooms, will your 2 nowG independant nodes still think they have access to the quorum disk sicne C each SAN unit will have its copy that is still locally accessible ?     E I'd say you need 3 computers in 3 rooms with 3 links.  A-B, B-C, C-A. H You can have your SANs in A and B. C then acts as your quorum and allowsC the VMS nodes to automatically decide which part of the cluster can  safely continue to operate.   E C can be a workstation that acts as a glorified operator console with ? decterms opened on each of the 2 nodes with opcom messages etc.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:41:49 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>2 Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance+ Message-ID: <cuttrd$5jc$2@news01.intel.com>    JF Mezei wrote:    > Syltrem wrote: > I >>Here I have what I believe is 3 voting members: 2 Alphas and one quorum  >>disk.  >  > C > Can anyone confirm whether quorum disks can be on shadowed sets ?   > Yes.  A quorum disk CANNOT be a shadow set.  The reason should be (semi-)obvious.  	      -Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:53:22 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> 2 Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance/ Message-ID: <6QwQd.124$GZ6.69@news.cpqcorp.net>    JF Mezei wrote: C > Can anyone confirm whether quorum disks can be on shadowed sets ?  > D > If the backhoe cuts the wires between the 2 rooms, will your 2 nowI > independant nodes still think they have access to the quorum disk sicne E > each SAN unit will have its copy that is still locally accessible ?   A It is for precisely the sort of scenario you present here that a  @ shadowset cannot be used for a quorum disk. And why the VMS SPD G prohibits trying to use multiple quorum disks (different values of the  @ SYSGEN parameter DISK_QUORUM on different nodes in the cluster).  7 > I'd say you need 3 computers in 3 rooms with 3 links.   < That's certainly the nicest solution, and in this case, not G cost-prohibitive thanks to everything being so close together and with  : right-of-way available to pull fiber-optic cables readily.  I In the general case, I'd say look at your Recovery Time Objective (RTO),  A which measures the amount of downtime that is acceptable to your  H application. If allowable downtime is only a few seconds to a minute or E so, then you need a tie-breaking node (or quorum disk, but a node is  E better) at a 3rd location (which could be a 3rd room within the same  E building, too, if you must). If your RTO is flexible enough to have,  B say, 5-10 minutes of downtime, then using Availability Manager or C DECamds to manually restore quorum at the surviving site should be  ? acceptable, and you could go with a 2-site, equal-votes scheme.   G Note that HP sells a package called Disaster Tolerant Cluster Services  F that is intended to help customers plan, design, implement, and learn / how to operate disaster-tolerant clusters. See  ? http://h20219.www2.hp.com/services/cache/10597-0-0-225-121.aspx G DTCS includes a quorum adjustment tool as part of its excellent set of  A disaster-tolerant cluster monitoring and management capabilities.   4 Another alternative software package for DT cluster 1 management/monitoring/control is CockpitMgr. See    http://www.hp.be/cockpitmgr and 7 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v1/mgclus.pdf    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:28:16 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster toleranceB Message-ID: <1108516581.544c770eb24395bf76dee53f3b987f95@teranews>   Keith Parris wrote: C > say, 5-10 minutes of downtime, then using Availability Manager or D > DECamds to manually restore quorum at the surviving site should beA > acceptable, and you could go with a 2-site, equal-votes scheme.   5 Or you can have one node with 2 votes and one with 1.   H  50% of chances that failure will result in uninterrupted service. (i.e.H if the earthquake ont strikes the side with the 1 vote node.  And if theG 2 vote node goes down, you can just reboot the other node into SYSBOOT> 1 change its votes to 3 and then continue the boot.   D I think that on VAXes, you can type <CTRL-P> at the console to get aD chance at readjusting quorum on a node that is currently hung due to3 loss of quorum.  Does this work on Alphas as well ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:15:36 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>2 Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?+ Message-ID: <cutsa9$59o$1@news01.intel.com>    John Santos wrote:
 [big snip] > H > In a log (batch log or @com/output= log), or if DCL verify is enabled, > 3 >      $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI("''DSKMBR'", "EXISTS")  > E > displays the value of DSKMBR in the log, which is sometimes useful.   ?     Indeed it does and I have no argument with that.  OTOH, the < question was the use of ''DSKMBR' outside of string context.B What you show above is within a string.  Correct, but not relevant to Bart's query.   > On the other hand  > . >      $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS") > G > makes it clear that the command file is using a symbol for the device G > name, and what that symbol is, which might make debugging the command  > file easier. > H > In either case, F$GETDDVI is a typo - the correct lexical is F$GETDVI.  E      Yep, I surely fat-fingered that one. ;-p  But here's yet another B example of (current) DCL "parsing only as far as the 4th character< of a verb", if you allow me to extend the analogy to lexicalB functions.  F$GETDXYZZY works equally as well as F$GETDVI, much asC LOGOMETRICAL works just as well as LOGOFF, which works just as well   as the actual verb, LOGOUT.  :-)  	      -Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:02:57 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>2 Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?, Message-ID: <37fdd2F5e094gU1@individual.net>   Ken Fairfield wrote:   > John Santos wrote: > [big snip] >  >>I >> In a log (batch log or @com/output= log), or if DCL verify is enabled,  >>4 >>      $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI("''DSKMBR'", "EXISTS") >>F >> displays the value of DSKMBR in the log, which is sometimes useful. >  > @ >    Indeed it does and I have no argument with that.  OTOH, the> > question was the use of ''DSKMBR' outside of string context.D > What you show above is within a string.  Correct, but not relevant > to Bart's query. >  >> On the other hand >>/ >>      $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS")  >>H >> makes it clear that the command file is using a symbol for the deviceH >> name, and what that symbol is, which might make debugging the command >> file easier.  >>I >> In either case, F$GETDDVI is a typo - the correct lexical is F$GETDVI.  >  > F >     Yep, I surely fat-fingered that one. ;-p  But here's yet anotherD > example of (current) DCL "parsing only as far as the 4th character> > of a verb", if you allow me to extend the analogy to lexicalD > functions.  F$GETDXYZZY works equally as well as F$GETDVI, much asE > LOGOMETRICAL works just as well as LOGOFF, which works just as well " > as the actual verb, LOGOUT.  :-) >    With the following twist:    In SYLOGIN.COM:     $ LOG*OUT == @SYSMANAGER:LOGOUT  < Then LOG, LOGO, LOGOU, LOGOUT will execute the command file.  G LOGOFF can be used to bypass the execution of the command file (useful   if it's log-winded).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:49:55 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>2 Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?+ Message-ID: <cuu5bj$9ue$1@news01.intel.com>    Paul Sture wrote:    > Ken Fairfield wrote: [...] G >>     Yep, I surely fat-fingered that one. ;-p  But here's yet another E >> example of (current) DCL "parsing only as far as the 4th character ? >> of a verb", if you allow me to extend the analogy to lexical E >> functions.  F$GETDXYZZY works equally as well as F$GETDVI, much as F >> LOGOMETRICAL works just as well as LOGOFF, which works just as well# >> as the actual verb, LOGOUT.  :-)  >> >  > With the following twist:  >  > In SYLOGIN.COM:  > " > $ LOG*OUT == @SYSMANAGER:LOGOUT > > > Then LOG, LOGO, LOGOU, LOGOUT will execute the command file. > I > LOGOFF can be used to bypass the execution of the command file (useful   > if it's log-winded).  E      But I was referring to VERBs.  Here you've brought in DCL symbol @ processing.  You're correct, of course, but I wouldn't call it aC "twist".  I'd prefer to call it the, "VMS expert's secret weapon to ( defeat clueless users' symbols". :-) :-)  	      -Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 13:22:53 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)< Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users3 Message-ID: <imiZFN$2$ktQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <1108490878.054003.175460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: 0 > wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse2 > output but do a system call to retrieve a number                   ^^^^^^^^^^^   D If you are doing it from within a program, just read SYS$GL_IJOBCNT.   > into a symbol ...  >    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st century    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:13:10 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG< Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users0 Message-ID: <00A3F6F9.52FF1DBD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  x In article <imiZFN$2$ktQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:` >In article <1108490878.054003.175460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:1 >> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse 3 >> output but do a system call to retrieve a number  >                  ^^^^^^^^^^^ > E >If you are doing it from within a program, just read SYS$GL_IJOBCNT.  >  >> into a symbol ...   >>   >  >Simon.   1 Install SYMBOL from http://www.tmesis.com/symbol/    Then:   % $ symbol/set/executive SYS$GL_IJOBCNT T $ write sys$output "''F$fao("Number of interactive users is: !@SL",SYS$GL_IJOBCNT)'"   --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 14:51:51 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org< Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users3 Message-ID: <pz8CGLFLWiIv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <1108490878.054003.175460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: 0 > wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse2 > output but do a system call to retrieve a number > into a symbol ...    $ CREATE TEST.FOR  	options         /extend_source          implicit        none  &         external        sys$gl_ijobcnt          integer         value_at  +         type *, value_at ( sys$gl_ijobcnt )            end   .         integer function value_at ( location )            integer         location         value_at = location            end  $ LINK TEST /SYSEXE 
 $ RUN TEST    Or, if you don't have Fortran...   $ CREATE TEST.MAR &         .psect  data    quad,wrt,noexe fao_ctrstr:          .ascid  /!UL/  buffer: .blkb   10 buffer_l = .-buffer            .align quad 
 out_descr:         .long   buffer_l         .address buffer   !         .psect  code    nowrt,exe          .entry  main,^m<>           pushl   g^sys$gl_ijobcnt         pushaq  out_descr          pushaw  out_descr          pushaq  fao_ctrstr         calls   #4,g^sys$fao         blbs    r0,10$         ret  10$:         pushaq  out_descr #         calls   #1,g^lib$put_output          ret          .end    main $ LINK TEST /SYSEXE 
 $ RUN TEST  K You asked for a system call.  Forgive me if I simply peek into the relevant 
 cell instead.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:01:17 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> < Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive usersB Message-ID: <1108504167.344ec7d1b307028fc83263021d4e124e@teranews>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > 0 > wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse2 > output but do a system call to retrieve a number > into a symbol ...2  F You could do a loop with F$GETJPI to extract all interactive processes and count them yourself.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:19:57 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>< Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users+ Message-ID: <cutsid$59o$2@news01.intel.com>e   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:  0 > wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse2 > output but do a system call to retrieve a number > into a symbol ...  >  > $ ?s  "     $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")  6 Looks like the rest of you folks need to go back for a DCL refresher course...  :-)   	-Ken  -- a6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldd! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:49:56 -0800  From: Z <Z@no.spam>s< Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users* Message-ID: <SZvQd.7308$Jf5.3771@fe03.lga>   Ken Fairfield wrote:# >    $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")u   Nope:n   $ sh us/full8        OpenVMS User Processes at 15-FEB-2005 18:48:02.46:      Total number of users = 22,  number of processes = 28 ...r $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM") $ sh sym iusersC5    IUSERS = 256   Hex = 00000100  Octal = 00000000400y $M   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:26:40 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> < Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users0 Message-ID: <11157poo0cams46@corp.supernews.com>   Ken Fairfield wrote: > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > 1 >> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parsee3 >> output but do a system call to retrieve a numberd >> into a symbol ... >> $ ? >  > # >    $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")s > 8 > Looks like the rest of you folks need to go back for a > DCL refresher course...  :-) > 
 >     -Ken  G Uh Uh Ken, he wants the currently logged in interactive users, not the 2< authorized number of interactive users specified in IJOBLIM.  H I didn't think that looked right, and went into help, VAX/VMS V7.2, and @ didn't immediately find that item code.  Further reading showed:  I           You can also specify any of the system parameters listed in the ?           OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual.e  I You get used to looking for what you want to see, and forget to actually   read the text.  :-)    Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:01:00 GMTs" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG< Subject: Re: DCL command to show number of interactive users0 Message-ID: <00A3F729.EA87705E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <cutsid$59o$2@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> writes: >bob@instantwhip.com wrote:u >s1 >> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parsel3 >> output but do a system call to retrieve a numbero >> into a symbol ... u >> s >> $ ? >t# >    $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")r >o7 >Looks like the rest of you folks need to go back for al >DCL refresher course...  :-)-  G This returns the interactive job limit Ken, not the current interactivee count!   $ set loginCJ %SET-I-INTSET, login interactive limit = 64, current interactive value = 7+ $ write sys$output "''F$getsyi("ijobcnt")'"e 64   Note, it's not 7.-   -- 0< http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.h -- w, Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product! e -- aK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMl   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 13:04:51 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>O  Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's MessC Message-ID: <1108501491.161880.101990@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>t   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   >T) > Gee, thanks.  Now I really feel old!!!!C >    Sorry!  Wasn't my intent. ;-)l  A > >              so what I know of this era came from reading thenF > > periodicals of that time - Byte, Dr. Dobbs Journal (The Tiny Basic one,B > > precursor to the current magazine), People's Computer Company,/ > > Kilobyte/Kilobaud, Creative Computing, etc.h >i  G I think I was the only kid in town that didn't buy a car with the moneytD from my after-school job.  Instead I bought bits and bytes from BillG Godbout, the Digital Group, SWTPC and others.  When I built my computer C the monitor was a 12" B&W TV stuffed inside a surplus VT52 case.  I-C wish I had a picture of that case with the antenna sticking out the. top!  F > Actually, Tiny Basic started in PCC.  Dr. Dobb's Journal of ComputerF > Calisthenics and Orthodontia came about to publish the next version.C > I miss most of those magazines.  Currently, Dr. Dobbs is the onlye > one I still read.g >e  @ I still love the slogan from Dr. Dobbs's. "Running light withoutA overbyte". I've still got the bound reprints of Vol's I & II.  No8 bloatware there!     > >aD > >> It wasn't his technical prowess that got MS started, it was his > >> mother's contacts at IBM. > >-A > > IBM didn't enter the personal computer world until 1981(ish)..	 Microsoft,E > > had been producing BASIC for several companies since 1977/78.  ItiF > > certainly is possible that his mother's contacts got Microsoft theF > > foothold that enabled it to license IBM the DOS O/S that Microsoft hadcC > > bought from Seattle Computer Products but Microsoft was a going  concern  > > long before that.  >eE > They would have been eaten alive by companies like Digital Researcho ifD > it were not for the IBM deal that, like MS today, was not based on anye6 > concept of technical superiority or even competence. >t  F I do sorta miss CP/M.  At least until I log onto my VMS machine... :-D   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:25:50 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's MessB Message-ID: <1108502043.b571795b244699463d46df2ca81c3d2b@teranews>   Neil Rieck wrote:sK > I've been thinking a lot lately about "Carly's Mess" and have come to theo0 > conclusion that it wasn't entirely her fault.   H I tend to agree with many articles I have read in the past few days thatE essentially say that while she is a great salesperson and motivations,H speaker (does she have a trailer down by the river ?), she isn't a greatA leader and operations expert. In fact, she was put in her CEO jobl! without experience in operations.   G It is her fault in the sense that she sold herself as CEO material wheni she wasn't yet ready.   G It isn't well documented if her initial appointment at HP was unanimousdH or controversial within the board.  But I do know that they hired a teamH of physchologists to study whether she would be CEO material and how sheE would fit within the HP Way. Carly had read up the books about HP andr' knew how to answer all those questions.u  B Remember that prior to her announcing the Compaq purchase, her CEOH skills were already in question. The Compaq deal just bought her another- 3 years of goodwill from the press and Board.o  @ There was criticisms of her leading the glorious CEO life in theD limelight, going to Davos, helping Bush integrate Homeland Security,A participating in hos commitee for the "going to Mars" project etcwE intstead of spending time at the employee cafeteria like the foundersi- had done to stay in touch with their company.o  G I think the board valued Carly's ability to garner media attention, andEF that is a valuable asset. But they also realised she wasn't that great? in managing the company, and hence their desire to hire a COO.    D The fact that she steadfastedly refused to allow HP to hire a COO isE 100% her fault.  Had they hired a COO, she could have continued to domD what she was good at (public side of the CEO) while the COO was busy fixing up the company.    She will make a good politician.   > First off, she was put into M > that position by a board of directors who seemed to be going in a differentg/ > direction than that of the founding families.   G We don't know what the board of directors wanted. Was it Carly who leadkH the board or the other way around ?  Remember that prior to her arrival, HP wasn't doing great either.   K > On top of that, there have been articles lately proclaiming her to be thenG > worst CEO ever. How soon we forget about Nortel, Global Crossing, 360 ' > Networks, Enron, WorldCom and others.C  D Nortel is just plain stupidity, and in fact, you could blame this onG Wall Street who distributed money left and right aollowing companies toBF buy others like there was no limit or need to be profitable. Nortel isG one of the more visible ones because it was a real business, as opposedrB to things like "Dr Koop dot Com" which was just the former surgeonG general of the USA cashing in on the .com frienzy with an IPO that made @ him a lot of money, but whose company had 0 chance of surviving.  A Enron and Worldcom are issues of lying and falsifying books. Also F remember that Worlcom was just some tiny virtual long distance companyD that found a way to finance the purchse a real brick and mortal longA distance company (MCI) and bought a lot more smaller virtual long,D distance companies. At one point they had some 150 different billingF systems, now they are supposedly down to 60 (atr least Curly is a goodO accountant). Worldcom didn't grow, they used free wall street money to acquire.u  ( > Many of Carly's actions (or inactions)K > may have seemed criminal to this newsgroup but she won't be going to jail  > for doing anything illegal.a  E That is a very fair point. Although think of the media frienzy if shec; had gone to jail at the same time as Martha Stewart :-) :-)a  M > run any company. Well, HP is a technical company and should be directly runu; > by technical people taking advice from financial people. e  E Having just read Gerstner' book, I will disagree. A CEO needs to be awF LEADER who is surrounded by reliable/trustable people in various areasD of expertise. With the right information, he then formulates the bigH picture plan and uses his leadership skills to communicate the plan down to all workers.   G At the other extreme, you have Steve Jobs who is not only a leader, butrH also a technological visionary and a risk taker. His predecessors failedB Apple because they were conservative accountants unwilling to take6 risks. And they had ousted Jobs because he took risks.  H The problem with the conservative acocuntants is that they wouldn't ramp@ up production BEFORE demand materialised, and by the time demandC materialised, customers were simply told that they'd have to wait X D weeks to get their MAC and they went elsewhere. By the time they didG ramp up production, demand was gone and the product wasn't hot anymore,h+ so Apple was stuck with unsold inventories.   H The problem with a company such as HP is that it is hard to tell whetherH they should hire a Gerstner or a Jobs. HP is big enough that it may needG a Gerstner. On the other hand, it has sufficient consumer products that  it may need a Steve Jobs.u     > Take a look aroundG > at the currently successful technical companies and you'll see that akL > technical guy is sitting at the top. Here are a few examples from my short > list:n >  > Microsoft   K Bill gates may look like a computer geek, but he isn't. He is in marketing.d  N > On the flip side, both DEC and Lotus (and others) started to go down for theL > count almost as soon as the technical guy was replaced by a financial guy.  H For DEC, I disagree. It started to go down under Olsen. It started to goD down when DEC grew too much and hired folks from IBM etc who taintedH DEC's culture and made DEC think it was invincible and so desirable thatG it could charge anything for its products and that its only competitionb' was IBM who charged even more than DEC.o    C Palmer didn't start the downfall. He just accelerated it instead of E turning DEC around. Carly was more neutral at HP. She didn't wound itt4 mortally. And she didn't go begging to be purchased.  G It s ironic that Carly got out without mortally wounding HP, but she is E getting a lot of criticism, while both Palmer and Capellas got out bysE mortally wounding their companies and finding a buyer and are seen ast/ saviours for their companies. That is not fair..  F Curly presided over the demise of Compaq. He in fact instituted it andD got investment bankers to find a buyer for Comapq because he knew heI just couldn't turn it around and didn't want to admit he was incompetant.a  G I give Carly higher grade than Curly and Palmer based on that. She leftrE HP in far better shape that Curly left Compaq and Palmer left Digitall) since the later two killed their company.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:47:18 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>s  Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's MessB Message-ID: <1108503329.4da70c2a5cb38afa4bbfe567f69e054d@teranews>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:E > Course, Lou Gerstner is a good example. He was a cookie company CEO14 > before IBM, but he understood Customers very well.   He worked for 3 companies:    Some high priced consulting firm American ExpressI RJR Nabisco (and saw the mistake in the merging of Nabisco with tobacco).   5 At Amex, he also had contacts with IBM as a customer.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:02:36 -0500v' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>   Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's Mess0 Message-ID: <1114rr2egf4905d@corp.supernews.com>   johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote:d > Beach Runner wrote:o >  > F >>>What technical guy is sitting at the head of Microsoft?  Surely you >>>don't mean Gates? >> >>F >>See the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley.  As a young MIT student, heB >>wrote a quick OS for an early computer. He is both technical and >  > really > 0 >>understands marketing and is a great futurist. >> >  > F > Actually Bill Gates went to Havard.  What he wrote (or had a hand inG > writing) was a version of BASIC for the MITS Altair 8800 computer.  IfE > would say he's fairly technical and certainly quite intelligent and ? > obviously great at marketing.  The rest I have no comment on.s >  >   John H. Reinhardt  >   A I seem to recall, but, it's been a LONG time, that the people at  C Microsoft were using PDP-10 systems with cross compilers for their mG development of software for the early microprocessors.  (Or was it the d, CP/M people?)  Pretty sure it was Microsoft.   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:56:35 GMTiL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)  Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's Mess6 Message-ID: <00A3F707.C590A98B@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  a In article <Z%oQd.41697$pc5.17014@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> writes:t   >> oF >> What technical guy is sitting at the head of Microsoft?  Surely you >> don't mean Gates? >c >eF >See the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley.  As a young MIT student, he H >wrote a quick OS for an early computer. He is both technical and really/ >understands marketing and is a great futurist..  L More relevantly than the movie, there's a book called "Programmers at Work."M One of the appendices is the commented data specification for that MITS BASIC-K interpreter he wrote.  There's none of the actual executable code, but you uM don't need to see it - the design is extremely clear.  (Unbelievably simple -e6 all the BASIC variables are preallocated - but clear.)  O As to being a great futurist, I don't know.  The big achievement with MicrosoftsN vis-a-vis the Internet was being able to turn the company around on a dime andN bring Internet-awareness (however compromised, however virus-laden) to most ofO the product line in a short time.  But he let the importance of the Web and thea Net sneak up on him.     -- Alans   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 19:20:52 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)  Subject: Re: Fixing Carly's Mess3 Message-ID: <kt1+WPb3SuJy@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  a In article <Z%oQd.41697$pc5.17014@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> writes:- >  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:; >> In article <0UkQd.4730$dZ.242019@news20.bellglobal.com>,m/ >> 	"Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  >> a> >>>"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message 0 >>>news:fAcTYawA8wPb@eisner.encompasserve.org... >>>e9 >>>>In article <2A1Qd.56210$uL5.19835@fe2.texas.rr.com>,  1 >>>>LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:j >>>>H >>>>>   http://www.business2.com/b2/web/articles/0,17863,1026920,00.htmlM >>>>>   Business 2.0 :: Online Article :: Working Tech :: Fixing Carly's Mess. >>>>>c >>>>>  "Fixing Carly's Messr* >>>>>   By Owen Thomas,  February 10, 2005 >>>>>  >>>>>   [snip] >>>>> M >>>>>   HP's high-end server lines, like Integrity and NonStop, have sufferednN >>>>>   from years of neglect. Some recent moves, like revamping the IntegrityM >>>>>   line and extending support for the VMS operating system, have pointed?N >>>>>   in the right direction. More of the same -- much more -- is needed..." >>>>J >>>>Yes, of Carly had been coding instead of all that other stuff the port" >>>>would have gone a lot quicker. >>>hM >>>I've been thinking a lot lately about "Carly's Mess" and have come to the rM >>>conclusion that it wasn't entirely her fault. First off, she was put into  O >>>that position by a board of directors who seemed to be going in a different NI >>>direction than that of the founding families. (p.s. It looks like the e: >>>founding families where right and the board was wrong). >>> M >>>On top of that, there have been articles lately proclaiming her to be the  I >>>worst CEO ever. How soon we forget about Nortel, Global Crossing, 360 oP >>>Networks, Enron, WorldCom and others. Many of Carly's actions (or inactions) M >>>may have seemed criminal to this newsgroup but she won't be going to jail l >>>for doing anything illegal. >>   >> tB >> I don't think anyone here ever thought Carly was doing anythingB >> illegal.  They just thought she was incompetent.  It looks like >> they were right.  >> e >>  J >>>But let me jump back to my first point; the problem (IMHO) with modern M >>>business is that non-technical people believe that anyone with an MBA can eO >>>run any company. Well, HP is a technical company and should be directly run FO >>>by technical people taking advice from financial people. Take a look around cI >>>at the currently successful technical companies and you'll see that a  N >>>technical guy is sitting at the top. Here are a few examples from my short  >>>list: >>>  >>>Microsoft >> . >>  F >> What technical guy is sitting at the head of Microsoft?  Surely you >> don't mean Gates? >  > G > See the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley.  As a young MIT student, he -I > wrote a quick OS for an early computer. He is both technical and reallyF0 > understands marketing and is a great futurist. >   C If by "wrote a quick OS" you mean "stole a BASIC compiler" then you0G may be right.  Even DOS was NIH as far as M$ was concerned.  The secondbD assertion of your third sentence is right, while the first and third are demonstrably wrong.o   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Feb 2005 19:24:48 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: grep on openVMS?y, Message-ID: <37f0k0F4or9b5U1@individual.net>  3 In article <akv9B3+zWRHg@eisner.encompasserve.org>,i> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:Y > In article <37ee1mF5c71e8U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:s >>  D >> Actually, you are free to continue to use the original one letterD >> options, but the long one's are also available for those who want" >> the exercise for their fingers. > , >    I think you're confusing gnu with UNIX.  @ Call it whatever you want.  The utilities, as they are currently@ being written by numerous developers around the world, offer the@ features I mentioned above.  If HPUX or AIX prefer to only offer? the old single letter options that does not prevent a sys admint> from offering the more useful versions.  All the current Linux and BSD versions have them.    bill  a   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:07:26 -0800i From: Z <Z@no.spam>- Subject: Re: grep on openVMS?e) Message-ID: <vBtQd.7120$3h3.384@fe03.lga>t   Bob Koehler wrote:K >>The same is true for plenty of VMS commands, qualifiers and also layered gI >>product commands. You just don't see it that way because of decades of e >>VMS exposure.q  F >    Right, nobody would ever think of using "PRINT" to print a file, E >    "SEARCH" to search it, or "/LOG" to mean the same thing on every  >    command that has it.r  F Examples of well-named VMS commands, such as "PRINT," does not refute F the claim that plenty of VMS commands, qualifiers and layered product  command are not intuitive.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:41:17 -0600u2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>( Subject: Guy Peleg: More wish list items+ Message-ID: <4212C0DD.2213C4FD@comcast.net>m  " If these aren't already in V8.2...   New keywords for F$GETSYI()i   IJOBCNTt BJOBCNT  NJOBCNTt  ) (counterparts to their ...LIM companions)o   -- t David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsb http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:y" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/o   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:54:53 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: IBM Linux and UniversitiesaB Message-ID: <1108503784.3ec8d5cf1fb2262e817a14c3cc8afe03@teranews>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:J > My point was that the server world is not currently 80% Windows based asI > the "analysts" of the time were predicting when Windows hype was at itsa > peak.r  F Your definition of "server" is probably different. Oh, and let us know@ when Winkler has changed his mind about Windows eviscerating the1 underbelly of Unix and other proprietary servers.7    C Consider the days prior to Window 3.1 when ALL-IN-1 was the largest G email system in he world (the most "seats"). VMS had a large portion ofaE the corporate email servers. Now, it has none because Palmer murderedaM ALL-In-1 and Curly gave it its final coup de grce (not even ported to IA64).n  A So, now, if you don't consider Exchange boxes to be servers, then-> perhaps you are right that Windows may not have 80% of market.  F The thing is that if you constantly narrow your definition of "server"D to an ever smaller and smaller niche, you will always be able to sayC that Windows doesn't have 80% of market, and in fact, if you defineeG server to be "machine in hospital that deals with patient records", you I may be able to claim that VMS has a 50% market share (or whatever it is).   F But if you define server to be a machine that is not at someone's deskD and to which other amchines connect, then the 80% figure for Windows isn't that far off..  G Also, consider that with Wintel, it is one server per application. FromfH a market share perspective, that one VMS machine in a company is still aH tiny bit compared to hundreds of wintel servers installed throughout theJ company, even though the VMS machine may be big iron doing a lot of stuff.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:51:14 GMTh6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: LAN Failover : Message-ID: <6htQd.322$DC6.220@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>  N http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/aa-pv5nh-tk/00/01/119-con.html#cegejebd  G The System Manger Vol 2 addresses LAN fail over.  Key notes, the manualaG state that "This command fails if any specified LAN devices have activeMG users" should really state that This command fails if any specified LANS devices have active protocols"  I You'll either need to stop all protcols or use the DEFINE option in LANCPhL and reboot. In either case you'll need to reconfigure the protocols (DECnet,L TCPIP, Pathworks . . .) in use for the new logical lan device and use DEFINE% to configure the permantent database.T   $ MCR LANCPK0 LANCP> SET DEVICE/FAILOVER=(EIA,EIB)/ENABLE LLA0 LANCP> EXITs  J Make sure you review the supported NICs.  If you're running DECnet the MACK address based on the DECnet address, that address will migrate from one NICaK to the other on fail over.  You may need to configure your network to avoidh- delays on fail over.  Sessions remain intact.f  D I'm using this in a production cluster with connections to redundant0 switches.  Once configured, it just plain works.   -- .     Andy Bustamanteq Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mails    # <Ouk@netscape.net> wrote in messageF= news:1108410796.171685.101350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...  > Hi,- > G > I've been asked to evaluate the possibility of using the LAN FailoverrE > functionality that arrived in 7.3-2. I'm familiar with NetRAIN in aiH > Tru64 environment and from the descriptions I've read so far, it would > appear similar.2 > F > The 7.3-2 New Features manual gives an overview and suggests reading> > the System Manager's Manual, the System Management UtilitiesD > Reference Manual and the I/O User's Reference Manual. These guidesE > (although there appears to be no mention of LAN Failover in the I/OrD > Users Reference Guide) give an overview and detail how to create a@ > failover set, but miss out a lot of the background detail. EG: >mI > * What changes are made to the MAC address when the NICs are added to aO > set?; > * How does the mechanism that detects a NIC failure work?xH > * Recommended MAC address aging times for connected ethernet switches? >oD > Can anyone point me to any documentation on LAN Failover that I've	 > missed?R >EI > Is anyone aware of any known problems with running DECNet, TCP/IP, LLC2 # > or GAP on top a Lan Failover set?m >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:14:51 -0500h' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>t Subject: RE: LAN Failover R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F415@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Ouk@netscape.net [mailto:Ouk@netscape.net]=20w! > Sent: February 14, 2005 2:53 PMl > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como > Subject: LAN FailoverG >=20 > Hi,s >=20G > I've been asked to evaluate the possibility of using the LAN FailovertE > functionality that arrived in 7.3-2. I'm familiar with NetRAIN in aLH > Tru64 environment and from the descriptions I've read so far, it would > appear similar.t >=20F > The 7.3-2 New Features manual gives an overview and suggests reading> > the System Manager's Manual, the System Management UtilitiesD > Reference Manual and the I/O User's Reference Manual. These guidesE > (although there appears to be no mention of LAN Failover in the I/OaD > Users Reference Guide) give an overview and detail how to create a@ > failover set, but miss out a lot of the background detail. EG: >=20A > * What changes are made to the MAC address when the NICs are=20  > added to a > set?; > * How does the mechanism that detects a NIC failure work?dH > * Recommended MAC address aging times for connected ethernet switches? >=20D > Can anyone point me to any documentation on LAN Failover that I've	 > missed?a >=20? > Is anyone aware of any known problems with running DECNet,=20i > TCP/IP, LLC2# > or GAP on top a Lan Failover set?= >=20    0 The following whitepaper might be of assistance:? http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v2/articles/tcpip.pdft   Regardsn  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660f Fax: 613-591-4477e kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:44:20 +0200.0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com>: Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions* Message-ID: <4212514b@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  < "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> wrote in message% news:pGdQd.26867$wc.20504@trnddc07...:( > I'd make it a third for the ELF stuff. >sJ > Perhaps something about compiler performance -- instead of the stuff you nowcJ > get with the HP 7.1 C++ release notes -- your images will be bigger, but we6 > don't have any guidelines except to raise PGFLQUOTA. >@L > In case you have influence in other areas, other topics of interest to me: >pA > 1) EFI booting -- what's really happening under the hood in say^ > VMS_LOADER.EFIH > 2) C-RTL futures -- when will I get a spoon with my fork (poor joke, I know) / > 3) How long are you going to sell new Alphas?y > 4) APACHE/TOMCAT futures >t >F >    EFI session is planned....   ------------------------------   Date: 15 FEB 2005 14:43:16 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)* Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP6 Message-ID: <15FEB05.14431644@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  h In a previous article, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:   -> ...D ->I do, too, but you have to have the physical disk names SOMEwhere.   Not really. You could use:   $ DISK = F$DEVICE("*","DISK")e  G in a loop to find all the disk devices on the system. In that same loopsF you could try to mount devices that match certain criteria (e.g. not aG template device, is directory structured and sharable), purposely using F wrong label, then parse the error message from mount to obtain correctH label and try again. You could even save the correct label in an indexedC file to use next time. Been mounting disks this way since the 80's."   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 8 --                 karcher.nomorespxm@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:40:16 -0800e, From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>* Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP+ Message-ID: <cuttog$5jc$1@news01.intel.com>(   Z wrote:   > Carl Bennett wrote:- >   >> I tend to agree with David... >>G >> Unless I am doing a quorum disk, (which gets stuck in SYLOGICALS so wI >> that I can set up the roots for SYSUAF, QMAN$MASTER, etc... ), I like eJ >> to mount disks under a separate com file near the end of SYSTARTUP. It G >> just makes it easier if you ever have to get in and cut the startup o >> off before it finishes... >  > A > ... or a shadowed system disk. I put that $MOUNT in SYLOGICALS.o   Why?  9 A shadowed system disk is already mounted by the time you : get to SYLOGICALS (or anywhere interesting).  I would say,9 "What possible purpose could that serve?"  However I know ; of one.  An uncommon one to be sure, but one that a certain * regular poster here probably encounters...   What's your reason?   	      -Ken  -- K6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken FairfieldE! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:20:21 +0100 * From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>* Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP, Message-ID: <37fedmF5b3of5U1@individual.net>   Carl Karcher wrote:   j > In a previous article, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: >  > -> ...F > ->I do, too, but you have to have the physical disk names SOMEwhere. >  > Not really. You could use: >  > $ DISK = F$DEVICE("*","DISK")S > I > in a loop to find all the disk devices on the system. In that same loopnH > you could try to mount devices that match certain criteria (e.g. not aI > template device, is directory structured and sharable), purposely using.H > wrong label, then parse the error message from mount to obtain correctJ > label and try again. You could even save the correct label in an indexedE > file to use next time. Been mounting disks this way since the 80's.o >   D I did something similar in the mid 80s with a fleet of exchangeable E disks. I mounted each disk with /OVERRIDE=IDENTIFICATION, and if the cJ label was valid (held in a DCL string of elements), then mount it /SYSTEM.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:47:39 -0600@. From: Alphaman <alphaman-nix-spam@alphant.com>* Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP7 Message-ID: <gvyQd.9019$U86.4261@fe40.usenetserver.com>    Paul Sture wrote:I > Carl Karcher wrote:p > F > I did something similar in the mid 80s with a fleet of exchangeable G > disks. I mounted each disk with /OVERRIDE=IDENTIFICATION, and if the sL > label was valid (held in a DCL string of elements), then mount it /SYSTEM.  I Careful with that Mount/Over=id.  If you're in a cluster and the disk is d= already mounted on a remote node, this will fail.  It's also f% *reeeeeaallllllly sloooooooooow*.....-  H Search this newsgroup's archive and you'll find a program (Macro, IIRC) I called GETVOLNAM.  This will very, very quickly read the header from the  E disk (even if mounted on a remote node) and return the volume label,  H allowing you to get the disk mounted in a fraction of the time it would 3 take to get the volume label alone using Mou/Ov=id.l  H If you use f$dev to scan for disks, be sure to add logic to exclude CDs G (esp. DQ devices that may not even exist -- trying to mount them isn't 0I pretty and you won't like doing it!!) and floppies.  Oh, and TU58's show 2 up as disks, IIRC.  B There are some really good reasons for mounting at least a shared G cluster disk in SyLogicals -- shared Qman files, TCP/IP proxy and host .I files, RightsList and SysUAF.dat files, etc.  SyLogicals is the place to rE have the disks mounted if you're defining the logicals that point to t
 them therein.m  < There's also a way to find out if a volume needs rebuilding F (unfortunately, I don't recall how -- it might be an arg to f$getdvi, F but it's not readily apparent to me at this time); that, coupled with G determining whether a disk is local or remote (don't bother rebuilding mH remote drives) can be put into a batch job or even a Run/Delay detached H process during SyStartup_VMS that runs several minutes after the system H has booted.  (That way, you're not using up a job in a batch queue that F probably has enough other startup tasks that have to be done, nor are H you dependent upon other jobs in case you've got an exhausted job limit  on a queue.)  A I wrote just such a DCL program a year or two ago for one of our -E commercial products.  I'd post it if it were possible, but the above  ; summarizes some of the major items I found that could help.n   Aaroni   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:35:42 -0600t2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP+ Message-ID: <4212BF8E.F719085F@comcast.net>    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:o > E > rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) wrote on 02/15/2005> > 05:47:45 AM: > I > > In article <05021412155024@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.comd > > (John Brandon) wrote:f > >r > > >VMS V7.2-1h1 Alphar > >s > > ...r > >eH > > >I started thinking why not mount all the disk drives in one command > > file ratheriK > > >than the multiple locations as is now.  I was thinking that either one$ > of the/ > > >following would be ideal for this purpose:p > > >P > > >  SYS$MANAGER:SYCONFIG.COMs! > > >  SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM  > > ...n > >tM > > I have a MOUNT command file that's general enough to handle all the disks M > > in the cluster, and I call it from SYLOGICALS.COM.  That's the earliest I J > > need any disks, so that's where I mount all of them.  (There are a fewI > > that are mounted earlier, like satellite node page files, so my MOUNT0F > > procedure is smart enough to skip disks that are already mounted.) > J > What's wrong with mounting disks that are already mounted.  You just get! > MOUNT-I-MOUNTED and if the caser > MOUNT-I-ISAMBR > and things proceed.f  7 For shadow-set members, yes - that's true. Otherwise...    $ mount/noassi dka400 mru_011 , %MOUNT-F-DEVMOUNT, device is already mounted   -- i David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:u" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/h   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 15:37:29 -0800 From: JimStrehlow@data911.comT) Subject: Re: NFS mounts to Solaris ServercB Message-ID: <1108510649.660418.50630@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  
 Jim wrote: ... E > 2. Our NFS mounts are not persistant across logins, the system useru hasp1 > to stay logged in for others to use the mounts.g    G We regularly communicate with NFS directories on non-OpenVMS platforms.l= The following is sample DCL that we use where APP_NAME is ourr application name.o  B  TCPIP MOUNT XNFS1:  XNFS1  XNFS1 /GID="0" /UID="0" /SYSTEM /USER=
 APP_NAME -$  /HOST="10.0.0.1" /PATH="G:\xnfs1" -/  /BACKGROUND=(DEL:00:01:00,RET:20) /RETRIES=4 -B-  /CACHE_TIMEOUT=(DIRECTORY:00:00:01,READ_DIR)p  : I hope you can alter the above to work for your situation.  / Jim, Database and OpenVMS Systems Administrator - Data911 Law Enforcement Hardware and Softwaret Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:35:55 -0600t" From: "Schroeder, AJ" <aj1@qg.com>, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution( Message-ID: <42124f20$1@news.qgraph.com>  D "Bradford J. Hamilton" <hamilton@Encompasserve.org> wrote in message) news:cut288$dif$1@grandcanyon.binc.net...dG > In article <421200e9$1@news.qgraph.com>, "Schroeder, AJ" <aj1@qg.com>m writes:  > ! 0 > !"John Santos" <john@egh.com> wrote in message' > !news:rucQd.26452$wc.5294@trnddc07...- > !snip!I > !> In the past, we have recieved two copies of most Alpha VMS kits, oneoL > !> with our support contract and one as DSPP members.  Often when we renewI > !> the DSPP membership (annually) we get yet another copy of the latest I > !> O/S kit.  I bet this is where many of the Ebay kits come from.  MostiJ > !> sites really only need one copy.  (I do like to keep two, though.  ItK > !> really stinks to discover you've got a scratched CD at 2AM on a Sundayr* > !> morning in the middle of an upgrade.) > !> > !> > !> --  > !> John Santos! > !> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.o > !> 781-861-0670 ext 539s > !sL > !I tried that avenue, unfortunatley my employer is moving away from VMS so, > !our subscription is in an unknown status. > !eK > !So, do they hobbyist licenses work with the latest releases? Or does themK > !license from DECUS only work with the version of VMS that comes with thehJ > !hobbyist CD kits? Reason I ask is that I might be able to get 7.3-2 and some@ > !layered products from my employer, just not the leading edge. > !a >tI > The licenses will work with any VMS release AFAIK (I don't know of manyoH > hobbyists running VMS 6.2 and earlier, but I imagine they exist). I've seen3 > hobbyist sites running on V7.2, V7.2-1, and V7.3.o >lH > V7.3-2 should work fine.  I currently use V7.3-1, but I have a copy of V7.3-2F > ready to go when I feel up to it.  I'll probably move to V7.3-2 when updatestI > and fixes for V7.3-1 stop.  I hope I'll have access to V8.2 in the nears future,p? > but I think I can ask folks to lend me a copy, if I need one.e  L The reason I was looking for an upgrade was to get the new version of TCP/IPJ services, I miss SSH quite a bit and having telnet open isn't sitting wellJ with me. Can I just update the layered product, or do I need to upgrade my	 whole OS?    >.= > !As you can tell, I am new to VMS and the hobbyist program.r > !O >s > Great - I hope you enjoy it!  K I have enjoyed it so far, it is a bit of a learning curve from *nix, but ittG works quite well. I am having fun learning how to hack around on my VMS  system.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:05:46 -0600e/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>i, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution, Message-ID: <37f2v8F5d11ivU1@individual.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:k > In article <cut288$dif$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:  >  > I >>The licenses will work with any VMS release AFAIK (I don't know of manyoC >>hobbyists running VMS 6.2 and earlier, but I imagine they exist).  >  > 9 > The licenses probably do not work on VMS V5.0 and V5.1.u > / > They certainly do not work prior to VMS V5.0.r  0 Then again, they aren't needed prior to VMS 5.0.   -- sG ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:02:50 +0000 (UTC)t7 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)e, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution/ Message-ID: <cutkha$iaj$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>t  M In article <42124f20$1@news.qgraph.com>, "Schroeder, AJ" <aj1@qg.com> writes:  !snip! ! M !The reason I was looking for an upgrade was to get the new version of TCP/IPoK !services, I miss SSH quite a bit and having telnet open isn't sitting welldK !with me. Can I just update the layered product, or do I need to upgrade myy
 !whole OS? !o  N You don't even need to upgrade the TCP/IP stack - just go to the nice folks atO www.process.com, who license their IP stacks (Multinet or TCPware) for hobbyistoL use.  These stacks have had SSH for quite a while now, and they work with a  _broad_ range of VMS versions.  J Apologies to the hp purists here, but no one should have to suffer with an2 inferior product for VMS, not even a hobbyist.	:-)   !snip!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:22:17 -0800m% From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com>d, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution6 Message-ID: <3f119ada0502151222fb7139c@mail.gmail.com>  ? On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:02:50 +0000 (UTC), Bradford J. Hamilton  P > You don't even need to upgrade the TCP/IP stack - just go to the nice folks atQ > www.process.com, who license their IP stacks (Multinet or TCPware) for hobbyisthM > use.  These stacks have had SSH for quite a while now, and they work with aH  > _broad_ range of VMS versions.  = Supported or not, TCPIP 5.4 runs on 7.2-1 and comes with SSH.A  = Although I've had more breakin attempts since I opened up SSHhF (averaging 4-5 a week) than I've ever had over telnet (um, zero, in 6+ years).m   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 14:14:37 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution3 Message-ID: <ANBVtrabFDMP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <37f2v8F5d11ivU1@individual.net>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:l >> In article <cut288$dif$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes: >> s >>  J >>>The licenses will work with any VMS release AFAIK (I don't know of manyD >>>hobbyists running VMS 6.2 and earlier, but I imagine they exist). >> i >> o: >> The licenses probably do not work on VMS V5.0 and V5.1. >>  0 >> They certainly do not work prior to VMS V5.0. > 2 > Then again, they aren't needed prior to VMS 5.0.  C My MicroVMS 4.x distributions had an extra license element that hadh2 to be applied to get the licensed number of users.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:55:28 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution( Message-ID: <opsl9a2qmfzgicya@hyrrokkin>  J On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:22:17 -0800, DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> wrote:  @ > On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:02:50 +0000 (UTC), Bradford J. HamiltonJ >> You don't even need to upgrade the TCP/IP stack - just go to the nice   >> folks attK >> www.process.com, who license their IP stacks (Multinet or TCPware) for  l >> hobbyistuI >> use.  These stacks have had SSH for quite a while now, and they work   	 >> with a ! >> _broad_ range of VMS versions.t >t? > Supported or not, TCPIP 5.4 runs on 7.2-1 and comes with SSH.h > ? > Although I've had more breakin attempts since I opened up SSHpH > (averaging 4-5 a week) than I've ever had over telnet (um, zero, in 6+	 > years). H Isn't the basic difference that passwds are transmitted unencrypted withC telnet?  Aside from this, it would seem that breakins have the samekD probability of success, independent of whether you use telnet or ssh     -- tC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/S   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:25:08 -0800i% From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com>c, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution7 Message-ID: <3f119ada0502151325547e839d@mail.gmail.com>f  F On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:55:28 -0800, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:L > On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:22:17 -0800, DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> wrote: > A > > Supported or not, TCPIP 5.4 runs on 7.2-1 and comes with SSH.E > > A > > Although I've had more breakin attempts since I opened up SSH J > > (averaging 4-5 a week) than I've ever had over telnet (um, zero, in 6+ > > years).tJ > Isn't the basic difference that passwds are transmitted unencrypted withE > telnet?  Aside from this, it would seem that breakins have the same F > probability of success, independent of whether you use telnet or ssh  D Standard Telnet is open- anyone who plugs a sniffer into any segment: between point A and point B can see/read the traffic. It'sF theoretically possible to take over a telnet session from somewhere inC the middle, though I don't know if it's been done in the wild. I do A know a telnet password has been captured via sniffing and used totD break into a system and raise some degree of havoc until they nailedB the hole shut again. (Local small-town ISP that has since disabled telnet access.)l  F Our GUI environment uses telnet to communicate with the server, but we> use LGI callouts to verify users, thus avoiding the clear-text password issue.   F I'm guessing the SSH attempts are analogous to script kiddies, lookingF for open SSH ports then throwing a list of username/password combos at? it that worked once, somewhere. It'd be interesting to see whattC usernames they were trying, but as mentioned in another thread, SSHr& doesn't like to give that information.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:35:55 -0500r' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>-, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution0 Message-ID: <1114tphobs23o2d@corp.supernews.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:k > In article <cut288$dif$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:% >  > I >>The licenses will work with any VMS release AFAIK (I don't know of manytC >>hobbyists running VMS 6.2 and earlier, but I imagine they exist).  >  > 9 > The licenses probably do not work on VMS V5.0 and V5.1.  > / > They certainly do not work prior to VMS V5.0.a  E If the object is being able to run VMS, then the licenses do work on tG versions prior to V5.0.  Not saying they actually do anything, but VMS e does run.  :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 15 FEB 2005 22:25:39 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>n, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution2 Message-ID: <15FEB05.22253928@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>  = In a previous article, DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> wrote: H > On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:55:28 -0800, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:N > > On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:22:17 -0800, DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> wrote: > > C > > > Supported or not, TCPIP 5.4 runs on 7.2-1 and comes with SSH.a > > >(C > > > Although I've had more breakin attempts since I opened up SSHeL > > > (averaging 4-5 a week) than I've ever had over telnet (um, zero, in 6+
 > > > years).-L > > Isn't the basic difference that passwds are transmitted unencrypted withG > > telnet?  Aside from this, it would seem that breakins have the same H > > probability of success, independent of whether you use telnet or ssh >  eF > Standard Telnet is open- anyone who plugs a sniffer into any segment< > between point A and point B can see/read the traffic. It'sH > theoretically possible to take over a telnet session from somewhere inE > the middle, though I don't know if it's been done in the wild. I dooC > know a telnet password has been captured via sniffing and used torF > break into a system and raise some degree of havoc until they nailedD > the hole shut again. (Local small-town ISP that has since disabled > telnet access.)m >  eH > Our GUI environment uses telnet to communicate with the server, but we@ > use LGI callouts to verify users, thus avoiding the clear-text > password issue.  >  OH > I'm guessing the SSH attempts are analogous to script kiddies, lookingH > for open SSH ports then throwing a list of username/password combos atA > it that worked once, somewhere. It'd be interesting to see whattE > usernames they were trying, but as mentioned in another thread, SSH,( > doesn't like to give that information.  B A number of successful ssh breakins have been made in the last few@ months using trojaned ssh clients.  The clients just capture theC keystrokes, including legitimate usernames and passwords.  The fact C that ssh encypts everything, not just the passwords, actually makest< it harder for the net cops to detect the resulting breakins.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV>H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:49:55 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i, Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distributionB Message-ID: <1108507087.1e09e6070d60bda982a7a0a107882a6a@teranews>   Dave Froble wrote:  F > If the object is being able to run VMS, then the licenses do work onH > versions prior to V5.0.  Not saying they actually do anything, but VMS > does run.  :-)  0 Nop. On my all mighty Microvax II, VMS walks :-)    E VMS may need a "key" prior to V 5.0, but applications didn't have anyo licencing schemes before that.  < One needs to remember that applications coming from post 5.0E environments wouldn't work on pre 5.0 since the image activator wouldeN complain about missing shareable image (and probably lots of ident mismatchs).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:15:15 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> , Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 distribution, Message-ID: <37fe2iF545fqhU1@individual.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:` > In article <37f2v8F5d11ivU1@individual.net>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes: >  >>Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>l >>>In article <cut288$dif$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes: >>>  >>>  >>>cK >>>>The licenses will work with any VMS release AFAIK (I don't know of manyaE >>>>hobbyists running VMS 6.2 and earlier, but I imagine they exist).a >>>o >>>B: >>>The licenses probably do not work on VMS V5.0 and V5.1. >>>a0 >>>They certainly do not work prior to VMS V5.0. >>2 >>Then again, they aren't needed prior to VMS 5.0. >  > E > My MicroVMS 4.x distributions had an extra license element that had94 > to be applied to get the licensed number of users.  ? Under MicroVMS 4.x, licensed users was handled by a version of d7 LOGINOUT.EXE which was patched for a particular number..  B The license element which was distributed was actually an updated 
 LOGINOUT.EXE.<  H Actually, the LOGINOUT.EXE from regular VMS also worked very well under  MicroVMS.  <grin>,   -- eG -----------------------------------------------------------------------g$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:34:24 -0500 & From: Thomas Wirt <twnews@kittles.com>. Subject: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?, Message-ID: <37f872F59aqoqU1@individual.net>  I I got this email today and am looking for an alternate means to read and oF post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not E interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros.  The last time  < that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was I News.Individual.NET.  I am now asking what people use for their feed.  I nB am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a H service, or do you maintain your own News server?  If you maintain your 4 own News server where do you get your feed for that?  D I hope I get some answers.  Please do not make me go back to Google I groups for posting!! :)  I really like to read and post from the comfort n of my chosen News reader.h   TIAb  B  >Subject: [248662] News.Individual.NET not free of charge anymore  >  >$  >Dear users of News.Individual.NET,  >A  >effective from April 1th, 2005, use of News.Individual.NET will B  >not be free of charge anymore. The news service will continue as  >a fee-based service.     --     Thomas Wirtp Systems Managera Kittle's Home Furnishings  Indianapolis, IN   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:39:11 -05000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>s2 Subject: Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?B Message-ID: <1108506440.4f6d6c0159e09c78fccc79f33c366984@teranews>   Thomas Wirt wrote:G > post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not 8 > interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros.   ? What is wrong with euros ? If you pay with credit card, it willO; automatically be converted to the currency of your country.p   But to answer you questions:  D free.teranews.com requires a minor subscription fee, and then you're allowed 50 megs per day.  F news.astraweb.com for $10 you are allowed to download a certain number) of gigs over an infinite period of time.    G I have both so that when teranews is down, I can use the other.  My ispsE also profides access to giganews, but is speed is throttled and posts5& have sales pitch appended to the text.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:56:54 +0100o* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>2 Subject: Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?, Message-ID: <37fd1oF5bmt3bU1@individual.net>   Thomas Wirt wrote:  K > I got this email today and am looking for an alternate means to read and vH > post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not G > interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros.  The last time  > > that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was K > News.Individual.NET.  I am now asking what people use for their feed.  I LD > am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a J > service, or do you maintain your own News server?  If you maintain your 6 > own News server where do you get your feed for that? > F > I hope I get some answers.  Please do not make me go back to Google K > groups for posting!! :)  I really like to read and post from the comfort   > of my chosen News reader.  >  > TIAa > D >  >Subject: [248662] News.Individual.NET not free of charge anymore >  > >  >& >  >Dear users of News.Individual.NET, >  >C >  >effective from April 1th, 2005, use of News.Individual.NET willvD >  >not be free of charge anymore. The news service will continue as >  >a fee-based service. >  >   K And I just got the same message. It's 10 EUR a year or 5 EUR for 3  months.o   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Feb 2005 01:12:13 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)2 Subject: Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?, Message-ID: <37fkvdF5csikaU1@individual.net>  , In article <37f872F59aqoqU1@individual.net>,) 	Thomas Wirt <twnews@kittles.com> writes:  > I got this email today M   I got one too.  :-(n  K >                        and am looking for an alternate means to read and tH > post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not 7 > interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros.   G I have no problem with the fee or with paying euros but, unfortunately, H I tried three different browsers and none of them was able to get to the registration page. :-(  F >                                                       The last time > > that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was K > News.Individual.NET.  I am now asking what people use for their feed.  I tD > am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a 5 > service, or do you maintain your own News server?  a  D I used to run a News server but while my department supported it theC higher-ups (who probably don't even know what News is) forced me to F shut it down a few years ago.  I am going to check out the news serverH run by my new ISP but I know they won't carry any of the european groups  and I'm sure going to miss them.  J >                                                    If you maintain your 6 > own News server where do you get your feed for that?  B There is a page (in sweden I think) where you can post looking forA newsfeeds.  Probably depends on what you want.  I used to providegB a feed of just the vmsnet groups to someone in eastern europe back! when my server was still running.a   > F > I hope I get some answers.  Please do not make me go back to Google K > groups for posting!! :)  I really like to read and post from the comfort d > of my chosen News reader.    Me too.    bill   -- 2J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   b   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:55:36 -0800o# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 2 Subject: Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?( Message-ID: <opsl9rqydrzgicya@hyrrokkin>  F On 16 Feb 2005 01:12:13 GMT, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  . > In article <37f872F59aqoqU1@individual.net>,+ > 	Thomas Wirt <twnews@kittles.com> writes:c >> I got this email today  >a > I got one too.  :-(y) me too.  But I had no problem, use Opera.  >sK >>                        and am looking for an alternate means to read and,H >> post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not8 >> interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros. >iI > I have no problem with the fee or with paying euros but, unfortunately,8J > I tried three different browsers and none of them was able to get to the > registration page. :-( >mF >>                                                       The last time> >> that I asked this group this question, the answer I got wasK >> News.Individual.NET.  I am now asking what people use for their feed.  IiD >> am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a4 >> service, or do you maintain your own News server? >dF > I used to run a News server but while my department supported it theE > higher-ups (who probably don't even know what News is) forced me to H > shut it down a few years ago.  I am going to check out the news serverJ > run by my new ISP but I know they won't carry any of the european groups" > and I'm sure going to miss them. > J >>                                                    If you maintain your7 >> own News server where do you get your feed for that?d >iD > There is a page (in sweden I think) where you can post looking forC > newsfeeds.  Probably depends on what you want.  I used to provideeD > a feed of just the vmsnet groups to someone in eastern europe back# > when my server was still running.  >  >>F >> I hope I get some answers.  Please do not make me go back to GoogleK >> groups for posting!! :)  I really like to read and post from the comfort/ >> of my chosen News reader. >a	 > Me too.= >= > bill >        -- hC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:07:15 -0800 ) From: Jack Fortune <jfortune@uoregon.edu>a Subject: pgp for vms8 Message-ID: <vj3511htkl3a2e29ulhe5p1r97sn9ea0pl@4ax.com>  " Is there a version of pgp for VMS?   Any info is appreciated.   Jack Fortune University of Oregon   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:55:13 -0600s6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: pgp for vmsD Message-ID: <craigberry-A055BB.20551215022005@news.isp.giganews.com>  8 In article <vj3511htkl3a2e29ulhe5p1r97sn9ea0pl@4ax.com>,+  Jack Fortune <jfortune@uoregon.edu> wrote:.  $ > Is there a version of pgp for VMS?  / http://h71000.www7.hp.com/opensource/gnupg.htmle   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:57:17 -0600 . From: Alphaman <alphaman-nix-spam@alphant.com> Subject: Re: pgp for vms7 Message-ID: <hEyQd.9022$U86.5784@fe40.usenetserver.com>o   Jack Fortune wrote:i  $ > Is there a version of pgp for VMS? >  > Any info is appreciated. >  > Jack Fortune > University of Oregon  4 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq_015.html  H Both PGP (old) and GnuPG (New! Fresh! Tasty!) are referenced in section  13.1.o  	 Also see:.  : http://h71000.www7.hp.com/opensource/opensource.html#gnupg   Aaron    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 11:10:17 -0800$ From: "ugex" <edgar_ulloa@yahoo.com> Subject: Quorum disk in EVAiB Message-ID: <1108494617.043986.22380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  D some one knows if its posible a stable configuration in cluster with? two nodes with eva storage but my quorum disk in this storage.?   G I know that the quorum disk cannot be a member of shadow set but I donto' know if can be member of virtual array.    Any comment about that..?    Thanks   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 11:21:52 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: Quorum disk in EVAgB Message-ID: <1108495312.281671.92890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   ugex wrote:tF > some one knows if its posible a stable configuration in cluster withA > two nodes with eva storage but my quorum disk in this storage.?e >WD > I know that the quorum disk cannot be a member of shadow set but I dont) > know if can be member of virtual array.  >a > Any comment about that..?  >0 > Thanks   Edgar,  G  I have storage on HSG80's so I can't say for certain about EVA's.  TheeD quorum disks for two of my clusters are on DGA devices served by theC HSG80's and I have no problems.  As far as I know VMS won't see thedE virtual array any differently.  Don't forget to format the drive as a ; VMS volume first, though.  Either ODS-2 or ODS-5 will work.      John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:07:52 +0000 (UTC)u1 From: Jefferson Humber <matrix01@globalnet.co.uk>b Subject: Re: Quorum disk in EVA.0 Message-ID: <cutkqo$4io$1@sparta.btinternet.com>   ugex wrote: F > some one knows if its posible a stable configuration in cluster withA > two nodes with eva storage but my quorum disk in this storage.?b > I > I know that the quorum disk cannot be a member of shadow set but I donts) > know if can be member of virtual array.r >  > Any comment about that..?h >  > Thanks >    Edgar,  4 We have a RAID(1+0) quorum disk in an MSA1000 array.   Works sweet with v.7.3-2   Jeff   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:34:22 GMTi1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>a Subject: Re: Quorum disk in EVA0/ Message-ID: <i1tQd.100$MR6.14@news.cpqcorp.net>u   ugex wrote:tF > some one knows if its posible a stable configuration in cluster withA > two nodes with eva storage but my quorum disk in this storage.?t > I > I know that the quorum disk cannot be a member of shadow set but I dont ) > know if can be member of virtual array.s  G A logical unit made from an EVA virtual array will work just fine as a =G quorum disk. It can be vRAID1 or vRAID5 and that's OK because VMS just hE sees it as a single disk unit; the mirroring or RAID-5 protection is c hidden from VMS.  E This restriction is only with respect to host-based volume shadowing.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:16:38 -0800b# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>Y Subject: rx5670 for $2Kr( Message-ID: <opsl9sp0nazgicya@hyrrokkin>  A Anybody else get the offer?  Now if only I could get it with GEM,o I could use it.n  P http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/prot/ne/ne_NewsDetail_PRT_IDX/1,1649,1908,00.html -- NC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/e   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 22:41:04 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2Kn3 Message-ID: <PH4i55bRMjMW@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  N In article <opsl9sp0nazgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:C > Anybody else get the offer?  Now if only I could get it with GEM,  > I could use it.a > R > http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/prot/ne/ne_NewsDetail_PRT_IDX/1,1649,1908,00.html        1                               HP Passport sign-in                                  HP Passport is a single login service that lets you register with HP Passport-enabled Web sites using a single userfF                               identifier and password of your choice.    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Feb 2005 23:48:30 GMT From: YANOF@WANADOO.FR Subject: SONO A PRIX DISCOUNTi6 Message-ID: <42128a4e$0$2164$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>   <!-- Bonjour,  S Si votre application de lecture d'e-mails ne lit que le format texte, vous pouvez :o  R - commander du matriel de Sono, d'clairage et des guitares  prix discount sur :     R <http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&IdAffPa ge=87&naction=accueil>  , - gagner de l'argent en vous affiliant sur :     R <http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&IdAffPa ge=87&naction=affilde>J   Faites comme moi, affiliez vous et gagnez 5% du montant des commandes...  * Nous vous remercions pour votre confiance.    -->P <BODY bgColor=#f3f3f3 leftMargin=0 topMargin=0 marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">E <TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 i width="100%" border=0>   <TR>     <TD width="280"><A  R href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id! AffPage=87&naction=accueil"><IMG kE       src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/Logo.gif" width="280" u border=0></A></TD>     <TD><center><a tR href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&IdT AffPage=87&naction=affilde"><font size="6" color="#FF0000">Gagnez 5% du montant des C commandes, devenez affili...</font></a></center></TD></TR></TABLE>n     <br>E <TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 r width="100%" border=0>   <TR>!     <TD width="33%" height="289">m0       <P align=center><b>Double DERBY</B><br><A        R href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id) AffPage=87&naction=detailprod&Id=7"><IMG ,N       height="180" src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/photoprod/15.jpg"        border=0></A></P>i=       <P align=center><FONT face="Arial Black" color=#ff0000  !       size=7>69 </FONT></P></TD>      <TD width="33%">-       <P align=center><b>Activ 212</b><br><A 2       R href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id+ AffPage=87&naction=detailprod&Id=825"><IMG  P       height="180" src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/photoprod/1239g.jpg"       border=0></A></P>o=       <P align=center><FONT face="Arial Black" color=#ff0000 a"       size=7>229 </FONT></P></TD>     <TD width="34%">)       <P align=center><b>PR-80</b><br><A p       R href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id+ AffPage=87&naction=detailprod&Id=804"><IMG n       width="200"lC       src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/photoprod/1204.jpg" O       border=0></A></P> =       <P align=center><FONT face="Arial Black" color=#ff0000 e.       size=7>85 </FONT></P></TD></TR></TABLE>  E <TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 o width="100%" border=0>   <TR>     <TD width="50%">-       <P align=center><b>Arm Laser</b><br><A e       R href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id* AffPage=87&naction=detailprod&Id=42"><IMG        height="200"A       src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/photoprod/75.jpg" a       border=0></A></P> =       <P align=center><FONT face="Arial Black" color=#ff0000 i"       size=7>109 </FONT></P></TD>     <TD width="50%">+       <P align=center><b>PA-2400</b><br><A         R href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&Id+ AffPage=87&naction=detailprod&Id=253"><IMG f       width="300" B       src="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/images/photoprod/383.jpg"         border=0></A></P>C       <P align=center><FONT face="Arial Black" color=#ff0000><FONT e/       size=7>189 </FONT></P></TD></TR></TABLE>o   <br><br><center><a rR href="http://www.sonoboulevard.com/index.php?action=affil&choix=set&affilid=479&IdV AffPage=87&naction=affilde"><font size="6" color="#0000FF">Faites comme moi, affiliez 7 vous et gagner de l'argent.</font></a></center><br><br>w </body>m<center><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse" width="500"><tr><td nowrap height="4" bgcolor="#000000"></td></tr><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><center><a href="http://www.e-advertize.com/index.php?choix=NNTPScribbler&Langue=en"><font color="#00FF00"><b>This message was sent with NNTP Scribbler (www.e-advertize.com).</b></font></a></center></td></tr><tr><td height="4" bgcolor="#000000"></td></tr></table></center>-   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 11:06:08 -0800 From: bill@wcschmidt.com/ Subject: Re: Strange (to me) ACP lookup failurenC Message-ID: <1108494368.931851.267290@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com><  9 VMS is ODS5 aware, dir is a VMS call and returns no files$F try creating a file 1.1.log on a PC and then ftp it to VMS, under ODS2 the file appears asg 1_1.logr   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Feb 2005 23:58:19 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)iI Subject: Re: Superfluous Responses  WAS Re: DCL command to show number ofn! Message-ID: <nypVJHh3ZFtr@wvnvms>a  N In article <opsl9rzpwuzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:I > On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:26:40 -0500, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  m > wrote: >  >> Ken Fairfield wrote:  >>> bob@instantwhip.com wrote: >>> 3 >>>> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parsen5 >>>> output but do a system call to retrieve a numbern >>>> into a symbol ... >>>> $ ?' >>>      $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM")>; >>>  Looks like the rest of you folks need to go back for a1  >>> DCL refresher course...  :-)
 >>>      -Keno >>K >> Uh Uh Ken, he wants the currently logged in interactive users, not the  k? >> authorized number of interactive users specified in IJOBLIM.e > F > I notice quite often many responses that are out of sync, they are   > respondingH > to something that was long ago resolved.  Why is that?  Are they not  	 > reading7N > the responses, are they not able to read the responses, have they not seen   > the , > responses?  I for one, find it a nuisance.  H In general they have not seen the responses (and in some cases may neverH see some of them). Usenet is a multiply interconnected store and forwardC network with highly variable propagation times. I have administered3D a news server for over ten years and in the early years was lucky to4 have news articles within 12 hours of being current.     George cooko WVNETo   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:00:51 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>eW Subject: Superfluous Responses  WAS Re: DCL command to show number of interactive usersc( Message-ID: <opsl9rzpwuzgicya@hyrrokkin>  G On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:26:40 -0500, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>    wrote:   > Ken Fairfield wrote: >> bob@instantwhip.com wrote:  >>2 >>> wrong, wrong ... I don't want to have to parse4 >>> output but do a system call to retrieve a number >>> into a symbol ...a >>> $ ?v& >>      $ iusers = F$GetSyi("IJOBLIM"): >>  Looks like the rest of you folks need to go back for a >> DCL refresher course...  :-)- >>      -Ken >,J > Uh Uh Ken, he wants the currently logged in interactive users, not the  > > authorized number of interactive users specified in IJOBLIM.  D I notice quite often many responses that are out of sync, they are  
 respondingF to something that was long ago resolved.  Why is that?  Are they not   reading L the responses, are they not able to read the responses, have they not seen   theo* responses?  I for one, find it a nuisance. >IK > I didn't think that looked right, and went into help, VAX/VMS V7.2, and  .B > didn't immediately find that item code.  Further reading showed: >hK >           You can also specify any of the system parameters listed in the-A >           OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual.A >iL > You get used to looking for what you want to see, and forget to actually   > read the text.  :-)3 >0 > Dave       -- -C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/m   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 16:12:24 -0800 From: lanalangley@eastlink.cae Subject: This Really Works!cC Message-ID: <1108512744.419220.265590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>e   Money making chain letter!" MAKE MONEY FAST AND EASY HURRY!!!! Make Money Fastw  G A little while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like you are C now, and came across an article similar to this that said you couldhF make thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment	 of $6.00!e  F So I thought," Yeah, right, this must be a scam", but like most of us,C but I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send C $1.00 to each of the 6 names and address stated in the article. YouwE then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6,eF and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands)B No catch, that was it. The main difference between this system andF others is that you have a mailing list of 6 instead of 5... This means? that your average gain will be app. 15 times higher!!! So after-D thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I thought aboutG trying it. I figured what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00,gD right? Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried" about the legal aspects of it all.  G So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they = confirmed that it is indeed legal! Then I invested the measlyiE $6.00.............plus postage. Well GUESS WHAT!!... within 7 days, I " started getting money in the mail!D I was shocked! I still figured it would end soon, and didn't give itG another thought. But the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I-D made about $20.00 to $30.00 dollars. By the end of the second week IE had made a total of over $1,000.00!!!!!! In the third week I had overDC $10,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week and IiB have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming inE rapidly....... It's certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps, I spent moreiB than that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and mostF importantly, why it works.... also, make sure you print a copy of thisE article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it.   8 The process is very simple and consists of 3 easy steps:F STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on eachF piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." And your name andF address.Now get 6 US$1.00 bills (or equivalent in your local currency)G and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not-G be seen through the envelope to prevent thievery. Next, place one papereF in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealedD envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, yourD name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing is creating a* service by this. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL!  0 Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses:       #1 Julia Burries 5660 Flowes Store rd Concod NC 28025i USAs  
 #2 Sara Bowenr 37 Odonnell Ave 
 MT Albert, Auckland, New Zealand    #3 Jedidiah Knopfe 12341 S. Solon Rdh Cedar, MI 49621t USA    #4 Yanti Ainul 20-4A Fairwood Drive Rochester, NY 14623C USA.   #5 L.M. Crowley  P.O. Box 467 Baddeck, Nova Scotia B0E 1B0e Canada   #6 Lana Langleyp 1475 Ketch Harbour Roadg Sambro Head, Nova Scotia B3V 1L3r Canada    F STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move theF other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name asG number 6 on the list. (Use your 'delete" key to remove name #1 and movey@ all other names up. Then change numbers and add your name as #6)  D STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article asC close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to ataG least 200 newsgroups. (I think there is close to 24,000 groups) All you9F need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you make!= Don't know HOW to post in the newsgroups? Well do exactly the 
 following:K ---------------------------------------------------------------------------.& DIRECTIONS - HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPSF ----------------------------------------------------------------------D Step 1. You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your ownC posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter andnD click and hold down your mouse button. While continuing to hold downE the mouse button, drag your cursor to the bottom of this document andeG over to just after the last character, and release the mouse button. At B this point the entire letter should be highlighted. Then, from theC 'edit' pull down menu at the top of your screen select 'copy'. Thisn6 will copy the entire letter into the computers memory.G Step 2. Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your cursor at the top ofdC the blank page. From the 'edit' pull down menu select 'paste'. This E will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add yourtF name to the list. Remember to eliminate the #1 position, move everyoneG up a spot (re-number everyone else's positions), and add yourself in ase #6.hD Step 3. Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to doG your postings in different sittings, you'll always have this file to go  back to.2 -------------------------------------------------- INTERNET EXPLORER USERS:2 --------------------------------------------------6 Step 4. Go to newsgroups and select 'Post an Article'. Step 5. Fill in the subject.B Step 6. Open this letter from notepad program, copy and paste into
 newsgroup. Step 7. Hit the 'Post' button.+ -------------------------------------------iF THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and postE away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds form each newsgroup!d? **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU 3 WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200**iF That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world withinB day's! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the largeB amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you canD invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST* MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.**   Now the WHY part::G Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example).rG So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the.D 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, eachE with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the originaleD 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM
 posts with my2A name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional D $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200B with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make anC additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625uC persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they eachaB only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125G persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at A #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receiveeG $15,625,00! With a original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! And as I G said 5 responses is actually VERY LOW! Average is probable 20 to 30! Soa7 lets put those figures at just 15 responses per person.    Here is what you will make:n at #6 $15.00
 at #5 $225.00n at #4 $3,375.00o at #3 $50,625.00 at #2 $759,375.00  at #1 $11,390,625.00  A When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latesteE posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on thecG list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. TheeF thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all overG the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday,l JUST LIKE YOU are now!!lB So can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so...F People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends youE the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when thereeF are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining theB internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try?E Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, everyday, with thousandse? of those joining the actual internet. Remember, play FAIRLY andeF HONESTLY and this will work. You just have to be honest. Make sure youF print this article out RIGHT NOW, also. Try to keep a list of everyoneE that sends you money and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to makeL* sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember,  E HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the basic idea to9E make the money!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the:E huge rewards from this, which is tons of extra CASH. TRUST ME IT DOESd WORK!0   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 16:12:28 -0800 From: lanalangley@eastlink.can Subject: This Really Works!iC Message-ID: <1108512748.630099.145380@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>n   Money making chain letter!" MAKE MONEY FAST AND EASY HURRY!!!! Make Money Fast"  G A little while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like you areeC now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could0F make thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment	 of $6.00!a  F So I thought," Yeah, right, this must be a scam", but like most of us,C but I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you send C $1.00 to each of the 6 names and address stated in the article. YouVE then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6,>F and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands)B No catch, that was it. The main difference between this system andF others is that you have a mailing list of 6 instead of 5... This means? that your average gain will be app. 15 times higher!!! So after>D thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I thought aboutG trying it. I figured what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00,eD right? Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried" about the legal aspects of it all.  G So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and theyp= confirmed that it is indeed legal! Then I invested the measlynE $6.00.............plus postage. Well GUESS WHAT!!... within 7 days, Iu" started getting money in the mail!D I was shocked! I still figured it would end soon, and didn't give itG another thought. But the money just kept coming in. In my first week, IiD made about $20.00 to $30.00 dollars. By the end of the second week IE had made a total of over $1,000.00!!!!!! In the third week I had over,C $10,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week and I-B have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming inE rapidly....... It's certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps, I spent more0B than that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and mostF importantly, why it works.... also, make sure you print a copy of thisE article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it.>  8 The process is very simple and consists of 3 easy steps:F STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on eachF piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." And your name andF address.Now get 6 US$1.00 bills (or equivalent in your local currency)G and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not G be seen through the envelope to prevent thievery. Next, place one paperaF in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealedD envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, yourD name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing is creating a* service by this. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL!  0 Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses:       #1 Julia Burries 5660 Flowes Store rd Concod NC 28025  USAe  
 #2 Sara Bowen  37 Odonnell Avee
 MT Albert, Auckland, New Zealand    #3 Jedidiah Knopf  12341 S. Solon Rdu Cedar, MI 49621o USAf   #4 Yanti Ainul 20-4A Fairwood Drive Rochester, NY 14623  USAa   #5 L.M. Crowley- P.O. Box 467 Baddeck, Nova Scotia B0E 1B0s Canada   #6 Lana Langleyp 1475 Ketch Harbour Road- Sambro Head, Nova Scotia B3V 1L3e Canada    F STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move theF other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name asG number 6 on the list. (Use your 'delete" key to remove name #1 and movew@ all other names up. Then change numbers and add your name as #6)  D STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article asC close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to attG least 200 newsgroups. (I think there is close to 24,000 groups) All yourF need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you make!= Don't know HOW to post in the newsgroups? Well do exactly thee
 following:K --------------------------------------------------------------------------- & DIRECTIONS - HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPSF ----------------------------------------------------------------------D Step 1. You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your ownC posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter andrD click and hold down your mouse button. While continuing to hold downE the mouse button, drag your cursor to the bottom of this document and G over to just after the last character, and release the mouse button. AtrB this point the entire letter should be highlighted. Then, from theC 'edit' pull down menu at the top of your screen select 'copy'. Thisa6 will copy the entire letter into the computers memory.G Step 2. Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your cursor at the top ofnC the blank page. From the 'edit' pull down menu select 'paste'. ThisoE will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add youriF name to the list. Remember to eliminate the #1 position, move everyoneG up a spot (re-number everyone else's positions), and add yourself in asa #6. D Step 3. Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to doG your postings in different sittings, you'll always have this file to go  back to.2 -------------------------------------------------- INTERNET EXPLORER USERS:2 --------------------------------------------------6 Step 4. Go to newsgroups and select 'Post an Article'. Step 5. Fill in the subject.B Step 6. Open this letter from notepad program, copy and paste into
 newsgroup. Step 7. Hit the 'Post' button.+ ------------------------------------------- F THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and postE away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for  each newsgroup!e? **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOUc3 WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200**wF That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world withinB day's! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the largeB amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you canD invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST* MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.**   Now the WHY part:oG Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). G So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the D 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, eachE with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the originalnD 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM
 posts with myNA name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additionaloD $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200B with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make anC additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625cC persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they eachrB only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125G persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at A #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receiveaG $15,625,00! With a original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! And as IbG said 5 responses is actually VERY LOW! Average is probable 20 to 30! Sos7 lets put those figures at just 15 responses per person.v   Here is what you will make:  at #6 $15.00
 at #5 $225.00l at #4 $3,375.00m at #3 $50,625.00 at #2 $759,375.00s at #1 $11,390,625.00  A When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest E posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on theiG list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. TheoF thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all overG the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday,- JUST LIKE YOU are now!!1B So can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so...F People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends youE the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when therelF are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining theB internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try?E Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, everyday, with thousandse? of those joining the actual internet. Remember, play FAIRLY andtF HONESTLY and this will work. You just have to be honest. Make sure youF print this article out RIGHT NOW, also. Try to keep a list of everyoneE that sends you money and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make,* sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember,  E HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the basic idea to(E make the money!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the E huge rewards from this, which is tons of extra CASH. TRUST ME IT DOES> WORK!n   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2005 16:13:14 -0800 From: lanalangley@eastlink.cay Subject: This Really Works! C Message-ID: <1108512794.645039.211270@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>s   Money making chain letter!" MAKE MONEY FAST AND EASY HURRY!!!! Make Money Fast   G A little while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like you areyC now, and came across an article similar to this that said you couldSF make thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment	 of $6.00!i  F So I thought," Yeah, right, this must be a scam", but like most of us,C but I was curious, so I kept reading. Anyway, it said that you sendtC $1.00 to each of the 6 names and address stated in the article. YouiE then place your own name and address in the bottom of the list at #6,vF and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There are thousands)B No catch, that was it. The main difference between this system andF others is that you have a mailing list of 6 instead of 5... This means? that your average gain will be app. 15 times higher!!! So after D thinking it over, and talking to a few people first, I thought aboutG trying it. I figured what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00,-D right? Like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried" about the legal aspects of it all.  G So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and theyp= confirmed that it is indeed legal! Then I invested the measly E $6.00.............plus postage. Well GUESS WHAT!!... within 7 days, I-" started getting money in the mail!D I was shocked! I still figured it would end soon, and didn't give itG another thought. But the money just kept coming in. In my first week, I2D made about $20.00 to $30.00 dollars. By the end of the second week IE had made a total of over $1,000.00!!!!!! In the third week I had overtC $10,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth week and IeB have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming inE rapidly....... It's certainly worth $6.00, and 6 stamps, I spent moreuB than that on the lottery!! Let me tell you how this works and mostF importantly, why it works.... also, make sure you print a copy of thisE article NOW, so you can get the information off of it as you need it.o  8 The process is very simple and consists of 3 easy steps:F STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on eachF piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST." And your name andF address.Now get 6 US$1.00 bills (or equivalent in your local currency)G and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will notcG be seen through the envelope to prevent thievery. Next, place one papergF in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealedD envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, yourD name and address, and a $1.00 bill. What you are doing is creating a* service by this. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL!  0 Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses:       #1 Julia Burries 5660 Flowes Store rd Concod NC 280252 USA-  
 #2 Sara Bowenh 37 Odonnell Aveo
 MT Albert, Auckland, New Zealandj   #3 Jedidiah Knopfi 12341 S. Solon Rd  Cedar, MI 496211 USA0   #4 Yanti Ainul 20-4A Fairwood Drive Rochester, NY 14623o USA    #5 L.M. Crowleye P.O. Box 467 Baddeck, Nova Scotia B0E 1B0i Canada   #6 Lana Langleym 1475 Ketch Harbour Road  Sambro Head, Nova Scotia B3V 1L3a Canada    F STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move theF other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name asG number 6 on the list. (Use your 'delete" key to remove name #1 and moved@ all other names up. Then change numbers and add your name as #6)  D STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article asC close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at G least 200 newsgroups. (I think there is close to 24,000 groups) All younF need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you make!= Don't know HOW to post in the newsgroups? Well do exactly the.
 following:K --------------------------------------------------------------------------- & DIRECTIONS - HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPSF ----------------------------------------------------------------------D Step 1. You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your ownC posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter andeD click and hold down your mouse button. While continuing to hold downE the mouse button, drag your cursor to the bottom of this document andaG over to just after the last character, and release the mouse button. At B this point the entire letter should be highlighted. Then, from theC 'edit' pull down menu at the top of your screen select 'copy'. This 6 will copy the entire letter into the computers memory.G Step 2. Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your cursor at the top ofwC the blank page. From the 'edit' pull down menu select 'paste'. This E will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your F name to the list. Remember to eliminate the #1 position, move everyoneG up a spot (re-number everyone else's positions), and add yourself in asv #6. D Step 3. Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to doG your postings in different sittings, you'll always have this file to gos back to.2 -------------------------------------------------- INTERNET EXPLORER USERS:2 --------------------------------------------------6 Step 4. Go to newsgroups and select 'Post an Article'. Step 5. Fill in the subject.B Step 6. Open this letter from notepad program, copy and paste into
 newsgroup. Step 7. Hit the 'Post' button.+ -------------------------------------------eF THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and postE away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for  each newsgroup!0? **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU 3 WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200**MF That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world withinB day's! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the largeB amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you canD invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST* MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.**   Now the WHY part:nG Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example).cG So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of theeD 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, eachE with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original0D 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM
 posts with my$A name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additionalaD $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200B with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make anC additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625nC persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they eachnB only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125G persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name atoA #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receivenG $15,625,00! With a original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! And as I G said 5 responses is actually VERY LOW! Average is probable 20 to 30! Sot7 lets put those figures at just 15 responses per person.i   Here is what you will make:0 at #6 $15.00
 at #5 $225.00  at #4 $3,375.00  at #3 $50,625.00 at #2 $759,375.00d at #1 $11,390,625.00  A When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest=E posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the<G list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. ThepF thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all overG the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday,z JUST LIKE YOU are now!!eB So can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so...F People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends youE the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when thereBF are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining theB internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try?E Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, everyday, with thousandsh? of those joining the actual internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and>F HONESTLY and this will work. You just have to be honest. Make sure youF print this article out RIGHT NOW, also. Try to keep a list of everyoneE that sends you money and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to makeh* sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember,  E HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the basic idea todE make the money!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap theiE huge rewards from this, which is tons of extra CASH. TRUST ME IT DOES/ WORK!P   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:00:26 +0100 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>A Subject: Re: What universities (and the IT Branch) could be doingoB Message-ID: <421246cb$0$24924$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:  / > question for you Keith ... I emailed IBMs ceoc. > and posted the letter I got back in response, > here on this site about a year ago ... IBM' > basically thinks vms is not worth thes( > investment ... why?  NIH syndrome (not- > invented here) or just plain stupidity?  Do , > they understand what a market vms on power > would be?" > H First of all, I wish to make it entirely clear that I'm not an official I spokesman for IBM. IBM has clear guidelines concerning which offices can hG make strategic public statements for the company. The letter I believe A2 you are referring to is the one you posted here...  D http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/a218e9bcfad1f267  C I would like to note that the context of the letter is whether IBM /I should "buy VMS", that is something different from whether IBM considers PI OpenVMS to be worth investment. As I have noted in earlier postings, IBM tB does "in fact" invest in selected products for the OpenVMS market.  I While I accept that the letter from IBM does represent the official view TH of the IBM management, I also think it would be a little naive to think H that any internal strategy change would be simply announced in a letter  to any outside principal.c  E I have also approached the management of other companies with my own  F ideas. The best I've been able to hope for, is that my idea sticks in I these manager's heads, so that they would maybe dig a little deeper into eG the possibilities later. Expecting "feedback" which would say they are <D now convinced to change their corporate strategy based only on your B letter is rather unlikely to say the least. In my case, I'm still A waiting to see if the management of the other companies actually eH implement some form of my ideas at some point in the future. I wouldn't 0 expect to be informed personally of any changes.  I Important in dealing with management is to recognize they are a group of tD individuals, and there are complex group dynamics involved. Outside G opinions will be viewed with great caution. Achieving credibility with rI such a group may require most or all of (and not necessarily limited to) a the following qualities...  A    - having some form of official standing lending acceptance and-      credibility  F    - using arguments and language accepted and understood by the group  D    - incontrovertible logic intelligently and intelligibly explained  >    - persuasiveness (it's not the same thing as being logical)  E    - politeness (showing some respect for their authority and for the0=      capabilities that helped them to achieve their position, @      it is human nature to reject ideas from those who are being      overtly objectionable)   ?    - timing (the argument meets some currently recognized need)e  I    - luck that any of the above would make any difference when designatedJ$      to be an outsider to the group.    D I write the above not to be sarcastic or funny. I wish to encourage I those who read this, to carefully consider how to best approach decision e? makers within their own companies (or others) with their ideas.e$ Also those ideas concerning OpenVMS.   Cheers!e   Keith Cayembergt. IBM Business Services GmbH - Hannover, Germany   Semi-Nonstandard Disclaimer:H Any non-official claims concerning my semi-official opinions are hereby  officially disclaimed.  i.e. I said it, not my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:14:14 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> A Subject: Re: What universities (and the IT Branch) could be doingdB Message-ID: <1108504945.c2956cee3be0634e6426ced218f9d0d8@teranews>  % re: Bob's letter to the IBM chairman.i  9 If I had been IBM's chairman, I would have done 2 things:h  E 1- Respond kindly with a message that while IBM considers VMS to be a-D good operating system, IBM must first focus on its own products, andD unless VMS fills a niche not currently filled by any IBM product, itF would be very hard to justify purchasing VMS and ingrating it in IBM's own product portfolio. b  G I would also call our sales folks and ask them which product we have to G sell against VMS, and would tell the person they should consider moving.H to product X from IBM at which point, they would no longer have to worryG since they know they can trust IBM as a vendor of IT solutions. I might(F also want to have a sales person along with a techny person visit thisD person and find out what it is about VMS that would make him wish toF stay on VMS despite the untrustworthy vendor and unknown future of theH IA64 platform, death of alpha. I would then want our sales people to useD that information when making puicthes against HP to win customers. IH would also instruct the tech folks to find ways to give our own products. some of the VMS stuff that customer cherished.    G 2- I'd call the sales folks and tell them that HP is so bad at managing F VMS accounts that VMS customers are begging IBM to rescue VMS from HP.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:02:35 -0500:* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>- Subject: Re: Where do you get your News feed? 4 Message-ID: <skuQd.3015$df.109928@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  L For $2.95US per month you can have Forte newsgroups (look for APN service on their site)d   www.forteinc.com   They are reliable.   -- p Syltremo   OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---k= "Thomas Wirt" <twnews@kittles.com> a crit dans le message de2& news:37f872F59aqoqU1@individual.net...J > I got this email today and am looking for an alternate means to read andG > post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am notkF > interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros.  The last time= > that I asked this group this question, the answer I got wasnJ > News.Individual.NET.  I am now asking what people use for their feed.  IC > am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as awI > service, or do you maintain your own News server?  If you maintain your 6 > own News server where do you get your feed for that? >iE > I hope I get some answers.  Please do not make me go back to GooglenJ > groups for posting!! :)  I really like to read and post from the comfort > of my chosen News reader.e >i > TIAy >hD >  >Subject: [248662] News.Individual.NET not free of charge anymore >  > >  >& >  >Dear users of News.Individual.NET, >  >C >  >effective from April 1th, 2005, use of News.Individual.NET will.D >  >not be free of charge anymore. The news service will continue as >  >a fee-based service. >l >k > --   > 
 > Thomas Wirtd > Systems Managers > Kittle's Home Furnishingsk > Indianapolis, IN   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:11:47 -0500a From: norm.raphael@metso.com6 Subject: Re: [O.T?] Strange (to me) ACP lookup failureQ Message-ID: <OFEED296BD.256D9729-ON85256FA9.007460A6-85256FA9.0074BC3C@metso.com>d  8 but didn't I just read that unzip would make it 1.1_log?  3 bill@wcschmidt.com wrote on 02/15/2005 02:06:08 PM:a  ; > VMS is ODS5 aware, dir is a VMS call and returns no fileskH > try creating a file 1.1.log on a PC and then ftp it to VMS, under ODS2 > the file appears ast	 > 1_1.log. >i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.093 ************************