0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 17 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 95      Contents:A Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. A Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. A Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. A Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. ) Re: DCL call to get shadow member status? ) Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?  Re: DS700 BOOTP # Re: Guy Peleg: More wish list items # Re: Guy Peleg: More wish list items  HP financials: Alpha sales down 1 Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions 1 Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions   Re: NFS mounts to Solaris Server0 OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: Oracle LGWR process does continuous direct I/O's) Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed? / Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ? / Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ?  Re: rx5670 for $2K Re: rx5670 for $2K Re: rx5670 for $2K Re: rx5670 for $2K Re: rx5670 for $2K Re: rx5670 for $2K set shadow/log bug Re: set shadow/log bug( Re: So how big a parachute did she have?D Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !)D Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Status of devices  Re: Status of devices # Re: TCPIP automatic route additions 8 Re: Thoughts about VMS ECOs now in .PCSI$COMPRESSED form  Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution VMS and Comcast cable modem  Re: VMS and Comcast cable modem  Re: VMS and Comcast cable modem  Re: VMS and Comcast cable modem  Re: VMS and Comcast cable modem  Re: VMS Group purchase process?  Re: VMS Group purchase process?  Re: VMS Group purchase process? P RE: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design   flaw   flaw P Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design   flaw   flawf  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:37:52 +0100 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>J Subject: Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal.B Message-ID: <4213a111$0$24944$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > Dear Distribution lists, > I > It is my pleasure to announce the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical E > Journal. First, I would like to apologize for the delay; however we D > were otherwise occupied in getting OpenVMS Version 8.2 out. Please > visit the Web site at:8 > "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/index.html" > I > Once again, we have a number of excellent articles. To highlight just a I > few, let me start by pointing out "A Survey of Cluster Technologies" by E > Ken Moreau. You will find this an in-depth and very well researched H > article. "Porting the Macro-32 Compiler to OpenVMS I64" by John ReaganE > gives you a firsthand look at what changed and what stayed the same G > from an engineer on the compiler team. "Are you Certifiable?" What an F > interesting question and name for an article! Certification is a big< > thing in the IT industry these days, and OpenVMS does haveI > certification available. This article was written by John Gillings, who F > was part of the team that developed some of the certification tests.> > "Delivering Web Access to OpenVMS" by Tom Bice describes howA > Southeastern Freight Lines migrated its All-in-1 application to A > Verastream and added a graphical user interface. This migration G > preserved all their valuable data, enabled them to keep their OpenVMS B > systems on which they rely for zero down-time, enhanced customerG > service, and reduced IT costs. There are four more excellent articles  > in this issue as well. > G > As always, I would like to thank all the Authors. As you can see from F > the bio page, we have an impressive group of Engineers, Ambassadors,= > and Partners. Key to the publication of this journal is the F > documentation team that works with the Authors. For this issue, theyF > were Carolyn Crowell, Suzy Kane, Mary Marotta, Sarah Masella, JosephC > McMullen, Phil Milgrom, Pat Nelson, and Merle Roesler. Of course, B > without the core team of Warren Sander, the web master, and MaryG > Marotta, this project would not be possible at all. I owe them a huge - > dept of gratitude. Thank you all very much.  > ? > I hope you enjoy this issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal.  >  > Warm Regards,  > Sue Skonetski  > Editor >  Hi Sue,   E I just noticed that the link on this page to the previous V4 OpenVMS  0 Technical Journal isn't working. It points to...7 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v4/index.html   - However the articles can still be found at... - http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v4/   H PS - Bringing back the technical journal in this form continues to be a 6 great idea! Great thanks to all who have participated!   Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:04:58 -0500 , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>J Subject: Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal.* Message-ID: <4213c3c7@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  K I fixed it.. it was ok on my staging site but I forced an update to get the  journal live and missed a couple of things.    = "Keith Cayemberg" <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote in message < news:4213a111$0$24944$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net...$ > susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > > Dear Distribution lists, > > K > > It is my pleasure to announce the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical G > > Journal. First, I would like to apologize for the delay; however we F > > were otherwise occupied in getting OpenVMS Version 8.2 out. Please > > visit the Web site at:: > > "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/index.html" > > K > > Once again, we have a number of excellent articles. To highlight just a K > > few, let me start by pointing out "A Survey of Cluster Technologies" by G > > Ken Moreau. You will find this an in-depth and very well researched J > > article. "Porting the Macro-32 Compiler to OpenVMS I64" by John ReaganG > > gives you a firsthand look at what changed and what stayed the same I > > from an engineer on the compiler team. "Are you Certifiable?" What an H > > interesting question and name for an article! Certification is a big> > > thing in the IT industry these days, and OpenVMS does haveK > > certification available. This article was written by John Gillings, who H > > was part of the team that developed some of the certification tests.@ > > "Delivering Web Access to OpenVMS" by Tom Bice describes howC > > Southeastern Freight Lines migrated its All-in-1 application to C > > Verastream and added a graphical user interface. This migration I > > preserved all their valuable data, enabled them to keep their OpenVMS D > > systems on which they rely for zero down-time, enhanced customerI > > service, and reduced IT costs. There are four more excellent articles  > > in this issue as well. > > I > > As always, I would like to thank all the Authors. As you can see from H > > the bio page, we have an impressive group of Engineers, Ambassadors,? > > and Partners. Key to the publication of this journal is the H > > documentation team that works with the Authors. For this issue, theyH > > were Carolyn Crowell, Suzy Kane, Mary Marotta, Sarah Masella, JosephE > > McMullen, Phil Milgrom, Pat Nelson, and Merle Roesler. Of course, D > > without the core team of Warren Sander, the web master, and MaryI > > Marotta, this project would not be possible at all. I owe them a huge / > > dept of gratitude. Thank you all very much.  > > A > > I hope you enjoy this issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal.  > >  > > Warm Regards,  > > Sue Skonetski 
 > > Editor > > 	 > Hi Sue,  > F > I just noticed that the link on this page to the previous V4 OpenVMS2 > Technical Journal isn't working. It points to...9 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v4/index.html  > / > However the articles can still be found at... / > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v4/  > I > PS - Bringing back the technical journal in this form continues to be a 8 > great idea! Great thanks to all who have participated! > 	 > Cheers!  >  > Keith Cayemberg  >    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 15:17:24 -0800 From: jordan@ccs4vms.comJ Subject: Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal.C Message-ID: <1108595844.182377.229100@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Sue,A      thanks for this.  The Journals are valuable and interesting.   > > "Are you Certifiable?" What an interesting question and nameB > for an article!  Certification is a big thing in the IT industryA > these days, and OpenVMS does have certification available. This @ > article was written by John Gillings, who was part of the team1 > that developed some of the certification tests.   E We were certified (three people onsite), but the company is no longer C willing to support it since HP added the requirement that we sell 7 D figures (thats $1,000,000.00) in hardware per year to be an officialC enterprise/OpenVMS reseller.  So unfortunately, we are not any more  (resellers or certified).    Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:52:44 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> J Subject: Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal., Message-ID: <XoGdnQM3msWFZ47fRVn-3A@igs.net>   jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote:  > Sue,C >      thanks for this.  The Journals are valuable and interesting.  > ? >> "Are you Certifiable?" What an interesting question and name C >> for an article!  Certification is a big thing in the IT industry B >> these days, and OpenVMS does have certification available. ThisA >> article was written by John Gillings, who was part of the team 2 >> that developed some of the certification tests. > G > We were certified (three people onsite), but the company is no longer E > willing to support it since HP added the requirement that we sell 7 F > figures (thats $1,000,000.00) in hardware per year to be an officialE > enterprise/OpenVMS reseller.  So unfortunately, we are not any more  > (resellers or certified).     9 You could get certified if you sell HP ink cartridges ;-)    --  - OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 03:46:36 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>2 Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?) Message-ID: <wsUQd.8626$uc.1654@trnddc09>    Ken Fairfield wrote: > John Santos wrote: > [big snip] >  >>I >> In a log (batch log or @com/output= log), or if DCL verify is enabled,  >>4 >>      $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI("''DSKMBR'", "EXISTS") >>F >> displays the value of DSKMBR in the log, which is sometimes useful. >  > @ >    Indeed it does and I have no argument with that.  OTOH, the> > question was the use of ''DSKMBR' outside of string context.D > What you show above is within a string.  Correct, but not relevant > to Bart's query.  H The original (long snipped) seemed to be a mish-mash of the two examplesC I posted here, so that's why I posted this.  It wasn't what the OP  G asked, but it might have been what he wanted.  My point was either you  I should include the whole thing in double-quotes (so that DCL does symbol  E substitution inside a quoted string), or get rid of the single quotes 	 entirely.   9 Someone else posted an analysis of what happens when the  E single-quote-only version gets parsed and why it works.  (Basically,  ( because all the quotes get thrown away.)   >> On the other hand >>/ >>      $ MBRSTAT = F$GETDDVI(DSKMBR, "EXISTS")  >>H >> makes it clear that the command file is using a symbol for the deviceH >> name, and what that symbol is, which might make debugging the command >> file easier.  >>I >> In either case, F$GETDDVI is a typo - the correct lexical is F$GETDVI.  >  > F >     Yep, I surely fat-fingered that one. ;-p  But here's yet anotherD > example of (current) DCL "parsing only as far as the 4th character> > of a verb", if you allow me to extend the analogy to lexicalD > functions.  F$GETDXYZZY works equally as well as F$GETDVI, much asE > LOGOMETRICAL works just as well as LOGOFF, which works just as well " > as the actual verb, LOGOUT.  :-) > 
 >     -Ken  A Yup  (BTW, IIRC, the orignal post had a single "D")  but once you 7 start down the road to pedantry, it is hard to stop :-)    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 05:39:16 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>2 Subject: Re: DCL call to get shadow member status?* Message-ID: <86WQd.29249$wc.6147@trnddc07>  & Sorry to follow up my own post, but...   John Santos wrote: > Ken Fairfield wrote: >  >> John Santos wrote: 
 >> [big snip] 
 [bigger snip] H > asked, but it might have been what he wanted.  My point was either you  H Ken, this is the generic "you", not the personal "you"!  I'm not snipingB at you (the personal "you"), honestly.  I think it would have beenH better to say "Best practice would be to include the whole thing in ..."= in classic stilted, impersonal, computer documentation style.   K > should include the whole thing in double-quotes (so that DCL does symbol  G > substitution inside a quoted string), or get rid of the single quotes  > entirely.   F The cure for quote-quote-quote-quote-quote-quote syndrome is sometimes& getting rid of some of the quotes.  :)   [snip]  C > Yup  (BTW, IIRC, the orignal post had a single "D")  but once you   8 Yet, another usage of "you", which this time means "me"!  9 > start down the road to pedantry, it is hard to stop :-)    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:17:17 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: DS700 BOOTP+ Message-ID: <42140CBD.74DEA85B@comcast.net>    dieter rossbach wrote: > B > I have to change the download for some decserver 700 from mop to: > DHCP/BOOTP due to changes of the network infrastructure.  F Find a "gentle" way to remind the network folks that IS does not existG to serve the needs of network, the network exists to serve the needs of  IS.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:36:57 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> , Subject: Re: Guy Peleg: More wish list items0 Message-ID: <1117p8h7ulpbn4a@corp.supernews.com>   Dave Froble wrote: > David J Dachtera wrote:  > % >> If these aren't already in V8.2...  >> >> New keywords for F$GETSYI() >>
 >> IJOBCNT
 >> BJOBCNT
 >> NJOBCNT >>, >> (counterparts to their ...LIM companions) >> > A > If you get into HELP, after the list of item codes, you'll see:  > J >          You can also specify any of the system parameters listed in the@ >          OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual. > E > So, it's been there at least since V7.2.  I'm not sure what system  H > parameters are listed in the manual.  Perhaps it means all the SYSGEN 
 > parameters.  >  > Dave  C Seems I cannot read anymore.  I didn't notice that David asked for   'CNT', not 'LIM'.  Nevermind.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:11:42 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>, Subject: Re: Guy Peleg: More wish list items+ Message-ID: <42140B6E.156DF65C@comcast.net>    Dave Froble wrote: >  > Dave Froble wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > ' > >> If these aren't already in V8.2...  > >>  > >> New keywords for F$GETSYI() > >> > >> IJOBCNT > >> BJOBCNT > >> NJOBCNT > >>. > >> (counterparts to their ...LIM companions) > >> > > C > > If you get into HELP, after the list of item codes, you'll see:  > > L > >          You can also specify any of the system parameters listed in theB > >          OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference Manual. > > F > > So, it's been there at least since V7.2.  I'm not sure what systemI > > parameters are listed in the manual.  Perhaps it means all the SYSGEN  > > parameters.  > >  > > Dave > D > Seems I cannot read anymore.  I didn't notice that David asked for > 'CNT', not 'LIM'.  Nevermind.    Indeed.   B I thought it unusual that F$GETJPI() has ...LM and a correspondingG ...CNT for various process quotas. Trouble is, some of the ...CNTs tell B how much is used, and some tell how much remains available to use.  < F$GETSYI() lacks these pairs, however. MAXPROCESSCNT needs aG corresponding CURPROCESSCNT, for example, so a detached daemon can warn F about an impending issue without having to use F$CONTEXT() and F$PID()@ to compile a "current" process count (stale by the time the loop finishes counting).    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:10:52 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ( Subject: HP financials: Alpha sales downB Message-ID: <1108616334.31cc005d5893876d514ad322c4075084@teranews>  j > http://news.com.com/HP+delivers+first+earnings+report+post-Fiorina/2100-7341_3-5579498.html?tag=nefd.top   ##E HP also saw its profitability in its server and storage segment drop, G even as sales continued to rise. The company posted an operating profit E of $71 million, down from $153 million in the year-ago quarter, while E revenue rose 9 percent, to $4 billion. The company saw sales gains in E its industry standard and HP-UX server sales, but it saw drops in its ' NonStop and AlphaServer product lines.   ##    E So this would seem to go against the rumours of VMS sales increasing.   E Also of interest is that they would mention HP-UX sales increases but C now what hardwrae it runs on. Probably because most sales are still = Pa-Risc and HP doesn't really want to publiscise that aspect.   6 In that article, more employee cits are still planned.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:41:05 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>: Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions. Message-ID: <BKRQd.200$vx7.7@news.cpqcorp.net>  < "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> wrote in message% news:pGdQd.26867$wc.20504@trnddc07... ( > I'd make it a third for the ELF stuff.  A > 1) EFI booting -- what's really happening under the hood in say  > VMS_LOADER.EFI  J It's like sausage, you might not really want to know what goes into it ;-)  J I reality, VMS_LOADER.EFI doesn't do a whole lot except load IPB (which of& course is a vast over simplification).  E The stuff that happens on both IPF and Alpha between the boot command F and the point SYSBOOT takes over is largely magic, and known well only9 by a handful of people who actually have to make it work.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 19:16:02 -0800! From: kenneth.randell@verizon.net : Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessionsB Message-ID: <1108610162.337807.50030@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   FredK wrote:  E > It's like sausage, you might not really want to know what goes into  it ;-) > B > I reality, VMS_LOADER.EFI doesn't do a whole lot except load IPB	 (which of ( > course is a vast over simplification). > G > The stuff that happens on both IPF and Alpha between the boot command C > and the point SYSBOOT takes over is largely magic, and known well  only; > by a handful of people who actually have to make it work.   G I like sausage.  I also like magic.  I'm really interested in how these E .EFI programs were created, as they appear to be programs rather than  scripts.  E I'm looking at having to support some number of rxXXXX boxes that are E in remote locations; I'm not sure if everything that I want to do can  be done via plain EFI scripts.  C For example, let's say I have to replace my system disk and restore  from an image backup...   F On an Alpha, I simply type B DKA0 and I'm all set -- this is very easyD for my users to remember.  My experience on Itanium is that the bootF information has some kind of disk-partition/other-magic-code stored inD the NVRAM, so even if the disk is in the same slot and bootable, theA saved boot information is different so the system won't boot.  My E remote users are not the kind to use BCFG commands in order to change E things.  This part can likely be done via a script, but it seems more  hackerly to write a program.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 10:51:15 -0800 From: "Jim" <main@ulticom.com>) Subject: Re: NFS mounts to Solaris Server C Message-ID: <1108579875.304537.292730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Jim and Bob,  = Thanks for your input. I have the nfs mount permanence set. .   G If I may ask one more question, is it possible to compile files on unix 
 from openvms? 1 The case sensitivity issue is getting in the way. G The more I look and think about it, I think we have to go to upper case  names.   Jim main   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 05:54:40 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) 9 Subject: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? 0 Message-ID: <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>  E One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would be to offer  @ the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server.     --Jerry Leslie9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 19:17:52 -0800 From: mcbill20@yahoo.com= Subject: Re: Oracle LGWR process does continuous direct I/O's B Message-ID: <1108610271.978183.54720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: mcbill20@yahoo.com [mailto:mcbill20@yahoo.com]# > > Sent: February 16, 2005 5:38 AM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = > > Subject: Oracle LGWR process does continuous direct I/O's  > > D > > I saw this problem once before with Oracle 7.? or 8.? I believe. The G > > database works OK but the Oracle LGWR process runs constantly, even  > > with no database activity. > > B > > The last time (several years ago), I was told that this was an Oracle? > > bug and I just needed to get a patch. That turned out to be  correct. > >  > > Here is my current config: > >  > > OpenVMS 7.3-1  > > Oracle 9.2.0.2 > > > > > As far as I can tell, this time the problem started when I	 installed ? > > VMS731_UPDATE V5.0. I assumed I could just go to the Oracle  > > website and A > > get the latest patches, but the metalink website has recently  purgedG > > their user/password database. I tried to reregister but it requires  a ; > > valid CSID, which I don't have anymore, as a home user.  > > E > > I don't know why they would have a policy like this. It's kind of G > > funny-- just the opposite of the OpenVMS policy. With VMS, you have  toD > > pay for the original software (other than hobbyist) but you then get E > > free access to bug fixes. With Oracle, you can download all their = > > products for free but can't get bug fixes without paying.  > > E > > And of course, they appear to be way behind in porting. I noticed B > > Oracle 10g available for download on just about every platform except > > VMS. > >  > > Any suggestions? > >  > > Thanks.  > > Bill > >  >  >  > Bill,  >  > A few misc notes:  > E > - the porting dates for Oracle 10G are in the roadmaps at: (updated  Feb  > '05)@ > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm > < > - might want to review patches not in the -500 release at: > H ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V7.3-1/ALPHA_V731_MASTER_ECO > _LIST.txt  > > > In particular, check out: (has ref to Oracle deadlock issue) > H ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V7.3-1/VMS731_ACRTL-V0300.tx > t  > E > - keep in mind that Oracle are doing BOTH OpenVMS Itanium AND Alpha C > versions of 10G at the same time.  Oracle Rdb for OpenVMS Itanium  beta > is now available.  > G > [my personal take is that most Cust's are still using some version of  9iD > (9.2.0.5?) and even 8i. It is only a small subset of those who areA > actively planning to implement 10G in the short term, but ymmv]  > @ > Oracle 9.2.0.2 is pretty old from an Oracle perspective. Later release E > notes have numerous misc fixes for LGWR process. V9.2.0.5 is latest B > version on OpenVMS with 9.2.0.6 slated for March/April timeframe based ) > on Oracle support comments in Metalink.  > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477  > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)  > & > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..  > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."  G Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I guess the 9.2.0.5 release must be E available through Metalink only. I went to the Oracle main website in E the download area and it still says 9.2.0.2 for OpenVMS. I'll have to 4 try and find a way to get access to Metalink again.    Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:06:28 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>2 Subject: Re: OT:  Where do you get your News feed?+ Message-ID: <42140A33.E4D32A38@comcast.net>    Thomas Wirt wrote: > J > I got this email today and am looking for an alternate means to read andG > post.  The News.Individual.NET fees are very reasonable, but I am not F > interested in entering into a contract paid in Euros.  The last time= > that I asked this group this question, the answer I got was J > News.Individual.NET.  I am now asking what people use for their feed.  IC > am curious if most of you get your News from a remote server as a I > service, or do you maintain your own News server?  If you maintain your 6 > own News server where do you get your feed for that? > E > I hope I get some answers.  Please do not make me go back to Google J > groups for posting!! :)  I really like to read and post from the comfort > of my chosen News reader.   D The ISP that hosts djesys.com, dls.net also has news service. My DLS3 login works even though I connect from comcast.net.   ( That said, Comcast also offers Giganews.  : I believe many ISPs offer news service of varying quality.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:21:10 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ?+ Message-ID: <42140DA6.BD0CF220@comcast.net>    Roy Omond wrote: >   > Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr wrote: >  > > yes, I know LANCP, but do  > > / > >                     Yes  Full duplex enable 4 > >                     Yes  Full duplex operational, > >             TwistedPair  Line media type. > >                     100  Line speed (mbps) > > J > > mean that the network adapter has been setup like this before the boot> > > at the >>> prompt or after the boot with a LANCP command ? > C > OK, I had parsed your original query as a native English speaker. ( > Now I understand what you were asking. > ( > Using LANCP, it is impossible to tell. > H > If this is a standalone system, then hit Break / Control-P or whatever- > it is for your system at the console, then:  >  >         >>> show e*mode  >  > (and if necessary) > B >         >>> set e...mode FastFD  (e.g. >>> set ewa0_mode FastFD) >  > Then:  >  >         >>> c  > ? > In a cluster enviroment, just make sure your typing speed is,  > ahem, appropriately fast :-)  H ...or, type those commands into Notepad, and copy them to the clipboard.A THen, connect to your console, hit CTRL+P, and press SHIFT-Insert G (faster than ALT E P or mousing). Your terminal program should send the , data to the computer as if you had typed it.   Caveats:  ( o Do not attempt on a production machine. o VMS may bugcheck after the exx0_mode change.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:22:19 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ?+ Message-ID: <42140DEA.1F21314A@comcast.net>    Tom Linden wrote:  > A > On 16 Feb 2005 08:37:33 -0800, <JimStrehlow@data911.com> wrote:  > B > > What version of OpenVMS allows you to use a f$setenv function?; > > v7.3-1 returns an -IVFAM invalid lexical function name.  > >  > > Jim  > > 4 > Didn't imply it existed, I said it would be useful >  > --E > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/   F F$SETENV() is another wish list item, but becomes deprecated as of the the Alphacide.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:10:44 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2K 0 Message-ID: <00A3F7CA.8853FA71@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <5MFyd+Hr0Ova@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: V >In article <00A3F775.629FBE5A@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:Q >> In article <opsl9sp0nazgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: D >>>Anybody else get the offer?  Now if only I could get it with GEM, >>>I could use it. >>> S >>>http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/prot/ne/ne_NewsDetail_PRT_IDX/1,1649,1908,00.html  >>  % >> I get no communications from DSPP.  >  >Nor do we.   0 Maybe it stands for Dump Silent Partner Program.   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:15:38 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2K / Message-ID: <uuQQd.188$Xu7.89@news.cpqcorp.net>    Tom Linden wrote:  > Anybody else get the offer?   B Sorry, but it appears OpenVMS will not be supported on the rx5670.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 15:09:39 -0800 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2K C Message-ID: <1108595379.866886.298860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   D > Sorry, but it appears OpenVMS will not be supported on the rx5670.  3 Just like the bad old days of the white-box Alphas.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:47:50 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2K . Message-ID: <WQRQd.202$ds7.3@news.cpqcorp.net>  D This was mostly a tactical decision based on timing.  The rx5670 was designed as J a 4-socket PA-RISC follow on aimed at the existing HP-UX base and came outL well before VMS was ready.  The rx4640 is a 4-socket system that was part ofL the newer family of boxes comming out in the right timeframe for VMS to jump on.   @ Dunno if VMS would boot on it, I'm not sure we've ever seen one.  % <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in message = news:1108595379.866886.298860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... F > > Sorry, but it appears OpenVMS will not be supported on the rx5670. > 5 > Just like the bad old days of the white-box Alphas.  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:32:57 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>g Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2KV< Message-ID: <ZCRQd.8587$hU7.2851@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>  ? "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message e) news:uuQQd.188$Xu7.89@news.cpqcorp.net...g > Tom Linden wrote:t >> Anybody else get the offer? > D > Sorry, but it appears OpenVMS will not be supported on the rx5670.  M Someone had better tell DSPP because they're sending e-mail to OpenVMS ISV's eC pushing these machines and letting you order them with an "OpenVMS n evaluation kit v8.1".o  & The web page (requires DSPP logon) is:  P http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/prot/ne/ne_NewsDetail_PRT_IDX/1,1649,1908,00.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 03:37:40 GMTt5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2KfL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1602052237470001@user-105n84p.dialup.mindspring.com>  6 In article <WQRQd.202$ds7.3@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"# <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote:6  E >This was mostly a tactical decision based on timing.  The rx5670 wasp >designed asK >a 4-socket PA-RISC follow on aimed at the existing HP-UX base and came out)M >well before VMS was ready.  The rx4640 is a 4-socket system that was part ofoM >the newer family of boxes comming out in the right timeframe for VMS to jumph >on. >oA >Dunno if VMS would boot on it, I'm not sure we've ever seen one.i  H rx5670 is certainly not supported for VMS.  I don't even know if it usesC the same chipset as the current systems.  If not, the chance of VMSM working goes down considerably.M  F I suppose there might be a few folks out there who already have rx5670G systems, who would like to switch to VMS.  Alas, any such systems don'tWF have a supported upgrade path to VMS.  For folks buying new systems, IC don't think the rx5670 offers anything over the rx4640.  The rx5670-J appears to be of almost no practical interest as a potential VMS platform.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 13:59:21 -0800$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> Subject: set shadow/log bugeB Message-ID: <1108591161.790353.12580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   Interesting bug of the day:t   Tybalt> show dev dga101t  E Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Freee	 Trans Mnt F  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks	 Count CntiF DSA501:                 Mounted              0  DISK101       49862576    1   1C $1$DGA101:    (TYBALT)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA501:)aC $1$DGA201:    (TYBALT)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA501:) ( Tybalt> set shadow/log $1$dga101:/site=3( %SETSHAD-I-DEVSET, DSA101 set with /SITE  D There is a DSA101, but DGA101 isn't in it.  The right thing happens,  but the DEVSET message is wrong.  # Tybalt> set shadow/site=5 $1$dga101o Tybalt> sh shadow dsa501   [snip]  -   Device $1$DGA101              Master Memberh&     Read Cost             42    Site 5     Member Timeout       180     Device $1$DGA201&     Read Cost             42    Site 2     Member Timeout       180' Tybalt> set shadow/log $1$dga101/site=3i( %SETSHAD-I-DEVSET, DSA101 set with /SITE Tybalt> sh shadow dsa501   [snip]  -   Device $1$DGA101              Master Member &     Read Cost              2    Site 3     Member Timeout       180     Device $1$DGA201&     Read Cost             42    Site 2     Member Timeout       180   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 21:32:35 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)m Subject: Re: set shadow/log bugn- Message-ID: <uwrWg2sgbp8k@cuebid.zko.dec.com>d  % Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> writes:a > Interesting bug of the day:l* > Tybalt> set shadow/log $1$dga101:/site=3* > %SETSHAD-I-DEVSET, DSA101 set with /SITE > F > There is a DSA101, but DGA101 isn't in it.  The right thing happens," > but the DEVSET message is wrong. > % > Tybalt> set shadow/site=5 $1$dga101  > Tybalt> sh shadow dsa501  G Sigh!  What version, and what patch kits have you installed?  I know wesG fixed some oddities with SET and SHOW SHADOW; it is with hope that this , is one that has been fixed already for V8.2.  B I'll send this one along to the guy who is most familiar with that# aspect of SET and SHOW SHADOW . . .    --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:07:02 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>h1 Subject: Re: So how big a parachute did she have?e( Message-ID: <opsmbmx0r2zgicya@hyrrokkin>  J On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:58:19 -0500, Main, Kerry <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote:   >> -----Original Message----- 7 >> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]B" >> Sent: February 10, 2005 5:44 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com4 >> Subject: Re: So how big a parachute did she have? >> >> Bob Koehler wrote:e@ >> > > Its all part of our plan to make the US the 11th province
 >> of Canada. = >> > > Course, teaching Texans to speak French might be a tadn >> difficult, but Is6 >> > > am sure they will see the value in this vision. >> > > >> >+ >> >    How do you spell nucular in French?a >> >>D >> We don't use proprietary USA technology, we use industry standardG >> nuclear reactors. The USA is mad at Iran because it got open sourcedeH >> nuclear technology instead of buying the USA proprietary Nucular (tm) >> systems.@ >>! >> And in french, it is Nuclaireo >> >," > And in english, it is nuclear .. >c > :-)a >t > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660o > Fax: 613-591-4477w > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)i >8& > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..  > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   Speaking of Carly,D I spoke to a guy today who claimed that she recently interviewed for. Eisner's job. She was turned down, I was told.       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 12:26:37 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>M Subject: Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !)sC Message-ID: <1108585597.909550.251500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>?   Bob Koehler wrote:E > In article <1108539507.530079.292820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,n& "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >SF > > While this is not an exact proof, it does show that there is very, very; > > little hope for exceeding the speed of light in vacuum.h >eD >    There are (were?) experiments in quantum physics that indicated thatE >    the weak force may propogate at speeds in excess of the speed ofiE >    light.  There are theories in nucular physics that work out onlyt ifD >    the strong force propogates faster than the speed of light.  OfG >    course either may be wrong (I'm not at the forefront of physics inm >    the work I do). >cE >    Since Einstein only considered electromagnetic and gravitational B >    phenomena it should not suprise us if one of the other forces happensc> >    to have a propogation speed faster than electromagnetism. >nE >    But since compounds are held together by eletromagnetic forces au) >    spaceship would be constrained by c.o  A The strong and weak nuclear forces have an extremely short range, G especially the weak force. The range for the strong nuclear force is onmD the order of about 10**-13 cm and that of the weak force is so small2 that it is well approximated by a "contact force".  F I have recently been reading QED by Feynman and according to this bookD it appears that the speed of a photon does vary from c but only overA very, very short distances. For macroscopic distances it is stillgF essentially c. You'll have to read the book to see how this works, butG it ceratainly doesn't mean you can propel a macroscopic object, or even E a particle, to faster than the speed of light. (It's a very good booknG that explains QED to the layman, and worth reading even if you only get B halfway through.) Remember, down at very, very small distances theE world cannot be described without using quantum mechanics. Objects in B the quantum world behave in a manner that is so strange that it isB diffictult to believe it. However, the body of evidence supporting> quantum mechanics is truly enourmous. For large systems (i.e.,G something large enough to see in a regular optical microscope), quantumeE mechanics reduces to classical mechanics via Ehrenfest's theorem. AnduG the speed of light on the macroscopic scale is simply c. If you are not D familiar with quantum mechanics, you cannot reply to this paragraph.  C So this faster than light propagation of the nuclear forces must beaG kept in context, namely, that it applies only over extremely, extremelyr@ small distances AND in the realm in which the effects of quantumC mechanics are paramount, where position and momentum (which is mass C times velocity for speeds much smaller than c) are sort of "fuzzy".P@ Things are so strange at these small distances that common senseF completely breaks down and you really need a good knowledge of quantum' mechanics to be able to argue about it.   @ I don't fault JF for bringing up the issue of people in the pastF claiming you couldn't go faster than 100 mph or the speed of sound. ItE is good that people question things. Physicists themselves are alwaysiD questioning things. I always did in my physics courses and it turnedE out that what they taught makes sense and was verified by experimentsaG that I myself conducted in laboratories. I followed the arguments givennE in the textbooks and analyzed them. I concluded that they were right.iC Einstein was forced to reconsider the validity of Newtonian physicsnF (which still works quite well for normal everyday phenomenon). Lee andD Yang questioned the premise that parity is conserved and they turnedF out to be right! The (occasional) violation of parity conservation was? essential to explaining the otherwise puzzling decay of certains
 particles.  E Experimentalists are always trying to find problems with theory. Thate# is how progress is made in science.a  F You also have to remember that these laws were discovered by some veryD smart people. And you have to keep in mind experimental evidence and understand what it means.y  D JF's counter-arguments to my responses reveal a need for him to takeD some physics courses. He is assuming too much about his knowledge of9 physics. Now there still may be some way found around thedG speed-of-light barrier, but if you follow my argument you will see that>1 there is very, very little hope of ever doing so.f  
     >---o---<a  C My argument makes the method of propulsion irrelevant. I'll try one>
 more time:  E I was trying to explain how special relativity has been confirmed anddA how well the speed of light barrier has been tested. If you don'tnG believe relativity, then maybe you believe the older "regular" physics.vF According classical mechanics (pre-relativity, Newtonian, whatever you, want to call it), kinetic energy is given by       KE = 0.5 m v**2l  G where KE is the kinetic energy (energy of motion), m is the mass, and vs& is the speed or velocity, if you will.  B THIS IS TRUE REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER MEANS OF PROPLUSION IS USED TO@ ACCELERATE A PARTICLE OR OBJECT. It is not true for relativisticG speeds, as I will show below. However, it is still true that there is asB definite relationship between the kinetic energy of a particle (orF anything else) and its speed, and *this* is true regardless of whether. you use relativistic or non-relativistic laws.  C Now, labs have accelerated electrons to have energies of at least 2hE TeV. Let's go with 2 TeV. The rest mass of the electron is very close  to 0.5 MeV.s  B (MeV is a million electron volts -- an electron volt is the energyD acquired by an electron after traversing a voltage difference of oneG volt -- TeV is a tera-ev, that is, a trillion (10**12) electron volts.)o    G So, using the above formula, and neglecting the electron's rest mass on  the left hand side, we get        2 TeV = 0.5 * 0.5 MeV * v**2       v**2 = 8 Tev / Mev       v**2 = 8 * 10**6       v ~= 3 * 1000O  E Since we have been using units in which c = 1, this means v = 3000 c,t! or 3000 times the speed of light.   E Now, what happens when we measure the speed of 2 TeV electrons in the , lab? We get a hair under the speed of light.  @ So, NO MATTER HOW you propel the particle, as the kinetic energyF increases without limit, the speed only approaches the speed of light.E This, combined with numerous confirmations of the validity of special:A relativity, shows that even given all the available energy in the.G universe, your electron will still not be going as fast as the speed ofr* light. Now, good luck with the space ship!  C Note 1: The relativistic relation between energy and speed properlyeF reduces to the 0.5*m*v**2 when the speed involved is much smaller thanE the speed of light. Actually, E=mc**2 actually makes an appearence inl this, but I digress.  D Note: Releativity has been confirmed even for slow objects, like jetA planes. Atomic clocks were flown on jet planes in both directionsrE around the world and the times were compared to similar atomic clocksoD on the ground. We are talking differencs on the order of nanoseconds@ here. And -- ta da! -- the results agree within the experimentalF precision to relativity theory. So it has been confirmed both for slow= objects, like jet planes, and fast particles, and not-so-fastiF particles, that special relativity holds true. It has been cofirmed in. other ways, too, but I have to stop somewhere!  D There is always a chance the there is some realm in which relativityF does not apply, just like it was found that for very, very high speedsD and/or very, very small distances, Newtonian physics does not apply.> But I think after reading this you will admit that the odds ofE achieving faster-than-light space travel are indeed very slim.  And I C haven't even discussed the numerous problems involved with tachyons F such as their imaginary mass, or serious causality problems, and such.  ? Anyway, this is the case for the validity of the speed of lighteC barrier. I doubt the case for the 100-mph or speed of sound barrier 	 compares.a   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 16:29:25 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>M Subject: Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !)pC Message-ID: <1108600165.442626.163450@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>t   JF Mezei wrote:/ > AEF wrote:6 > > This has nothing to do with how accelerators work. >-@ > But this is my point. The only empirical "evidence" so far areA > accelerators which are essentially glorified wind in sails. Theg sailboat  ? Not true. Accelerators use electric fields to propel particles.a? Additionally, the acceleration produced by an electric field isn) independent of the speed of the particle.   E > can't go any faster than the wind speed, no matter how big its sailr is- > (how much energy it can receive from wind).t  D As others have posted, not true. If the boat is aimed in a directionG not parallel to the wind, the wind can keep pushing the boat even after C the speed of the boat exceeds that of the wind (because the boat iss4 going more or less "sideways" relative to the wind).   > A > a beam of light can be dim or extremely bright. Energy level isSB > different. But it still just travels at the speed of light and a solart< > sail ain't going to go faster than whatever is pushing it.   It's not a solar sail.   >-B > My point is that a stationary device that sends energy to a body (suchsF > as your accelerator) is not the same as a body having its own method ofD > accelerating by itself (such as a real spaceship which throws mass* > behind it to accelerate itsefl forwards) > = > > Again, this has nothing to do with how accelerators work.y >dD > Exactly. My point is that accelerators do not simulate a spaceshipE > having its own propulsion system. It simulates a spaceship having au bigi@ > solar sail and relying on a stationary emitter of energy which travelsuF > at a certain speed towards the sail and thus limits this ship to the% > speed at which that energy travels.R  > Having to eject fuel in the direction opposite to your desiredA direction of travel is actually an enormous disadvantage. ImagineaA sitting on a huge hockey puck on a very large area of smooth ice.aG Imagine it to be frictionless. Imagine the difficutly you would have infF getting around -- both in accelerating (and braking) and steering. NowA imagine being in an automobile trying to do the same things. MuchpG easier in the auto as you can "push against" the entire earth while thenF hockey puck vehicle has to throw ballast overboard. And you'll run outF of ballast quickly. If you load up with more ballast, you'll need evenD more ballast just to make the same maneuvers. That is why it takes aD 6.5 million pound vehicle (the Saturn V) to propel a relatively tinyE spacecraft to the moon. So you'll use your hands on the ice, but thena5 you're more like the car, and less like a space ship./  G In any case, my argument holds independent of the method of propulsion.u) See my other recent post for the details.e  F > > Well, JF, can you tell me what is limiting this wave? I assure you itE > > is not a limitation of the device itself. You have no idea of howM > > accelerators work. >-= > Aren't they glorified magnets pushing particles in vacuum ?0  D No. The magnets are for steering and focusing. The accelerations are achieved with electric fields.  A > > What's relevant here is that these devices give the particlesn enough@ > > energy to travel at over a thousand times the speed of light >8C > A hydraulic piston is able to impart a huge amount of energy on a E > object. But if it moves at 5km/h, no matter if the object is a golfy ballE > or a 18 wheel truck, neither will go faster than 5km/h because oncee theyC > have reached 5km/h, they go as fast as the piston and thus get nos more acceleration.  C The electric fields don't move; the particle does. Your hung on the 5 idea of collisions. That's not how accelerators work.i  G Also, how did you get the piston up to 5 km/hour? According to you, you E need something else that's already going 5 km/hour. But cars start attC zero speed and somehow accelerate. Similarly, an accelerator starts A with very slow electrons and accelerates them to very high speed.r  C By setting up a suitable lever system, you can get a slow object to-B propel another object faster. If I set up a see-saw with the pivotC point half way between the center and the end of the see-saw, I cancE move an object at the other end with three times the speed that I usen
 on my end.  F > So your accelerators may unleash a huge amount of energy, 1000 timesG > what is needed to go to the speed of light, but if the energy travelsh atG > speed of light, then it won't be able to accelerate the object fasteraE > than that. (same as the hydraulic piston unleashing 1000 times whatl itB > takes to accelerate a golf ball to 5km/h, but the golf ball will still  > go just at 5km/h.a  G No, because the particle actually gets all this energy. Actually, a lotm= more energy is needed just to run the magnets, but I digress.o  E > > nothing to do with this limitation. If that's all it was then the ; > > physicists would simply increase the speed of the wave!2 >8B > Waves only travel at a certain speed relative to the object that createsfF > the wave. Your fancy accelerator magnets may be made up of a millionG > seperate magnets that are triggered in a sequence that goes above thea? > speed of light around the acceletor. But each magnet is stillAC > stationary, and the magnetic wave it emits during the fraction ofi secondF > it is activated is still limited to the speed of a wave emitted by a > stationary magnet.   Electric field, see above.  B > It is like having a million fans along a sailing course. You can triggerw@ > the fans in a sequence that goes from one fan to the next very quickly,A > but in the end the speed of the wind created by  each fan stilltD > determines how fast my sailboat will go. The triggering of fans inE > sequence only saves you energy by only triggering the fans that aren next > to me at any point in time.w  G I am glad to see you questioning and showing interest in this, however,hA your arguments are not valid. See my other recent post for a more ! elaborate version of my argument.A   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 21:08:46 -0800 From: bhushann@gmail.com Subject: Status of devicesB Message-ID: <1108616926.135563.26840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   Hi,n  ,   I am looking for the status of the device." For ex., online, mounted, offline.) EXAMPLE, status of $2$DKA200: is mounted.u  = How do I get the status programmatically by using lexicals orh system_services.  & For example, sh sys shows as follows :  E Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free 	 Trans MntFF  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks	 Count CntSF DSA1:                   Mounted              0  STORM          8377605    1   2F DSA2:                   Mounted              0  FLAME          8377614    1   2F DSA3:                   Mounted              0  RAGE           8314776    1   2F DSA4:                   Mounted              0  TORNADO        7117524   10   2F DSA5:                   Mounted              0  TYPHOON        7117965    6   2F DSA6:                   Mounted              0  CYCLONE        7118037    6   2F DSA8:                   Mounted              0  INFERNO        8216604    1   2F DSA9:                   Mounted              0  ICE            1177587   61   2A $1$DUA0:      (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA1:)aA $1$DUA1:      (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA1:)lA $1$DUA2:      (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA2:)-A $1$DUA3:      (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA2:)rA $1$DUA4:      (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA3:)nA $1$DUA5:      (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA3:)bA $1$DUA6:      (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA4:)-A $1$DUA7:      (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA4:) A $1$DUA8:      (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember     11  (member of DSA5:) A $1$DUA9:      (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember     13  (member of DSA5:) A $1$DUA10:     (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA6:).A $1$DUA11:     (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA6:)tA $1$DUA12:     (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA9:)mA $1$DUA13:     (HSJ001)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA9:) . $1$DUA14:     (HSJ001)  Online               0F $1$DUA15:     (HSJ001)  Mounted              0  ALPHASYS       3772629  388   2. $2$DKA0:        (FIRE)  Online               0. $2$DKA100:      (FIRE)  Online               0F $2$DKA200:      (FIRE)  Mounted              0  VOL_2          4386519    1   2A $2$DKA400:      (FIRE)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA8:)rA $2$DKA500:      (FIRE)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA8:)g. $2$DKA600:      (FIRE)  Online               0F $3$DKA0:        (FURY)  Mounted              0  FURY_10279     3686876    2   1. $3$DKA600:      (FURY)  Online wrtlck        0. $3$DVA0:        (FURY)  Online               0. DNFS0:          (FURY)  Online               0     Rgds,r Bhushi   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 21:41:11 -0800 From: bhushann@gmail.com Subject: Re: Status of devicesB Message-ID: <1108618871.565128.93770@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  & Thank you for your prompt reply Mezei.G What I am looking for is, how to obtain all the other states the devicex- could be in other than mount and not mounted.    Rgds,n Bhushi   JF Mezei wrote:  > bhushann@gmail.com wrote:nA > > How do I get the status programmatically by using lexicals ors > > system_services. >0& > For lexicals, $HELP LEXICAL F$GETDVI >d+ > For system services: $HELP SYSTEM $GETDVIt >e1 > example:  status = F$GETDVI("$2$DKA200:","MNT")/ >.C > status is either true or false depending on whether the device isS > mounted or not.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:27:50 -0600h2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>, Subject: Re: TCPIP automatic route additions+ Message-ID: <42140F36.5EA92BD5@comcast.net>e   DeanW wrote: > [snip]N > Is there a way to have TCPIP not automatically add routes that I don't want? > B > If I put a permanent route in for 192.168.0/24 to go through theD > default router, will that defeat the automatic routes being added?D > (I'm dubious- note that the permenant route to the external net is7 > correct, the dynamic one has an incorrect bitmask...).  D I believe there is(was?) an option you can set somewhere to keep UCX- from doing that. I just don't recall where....   -- t David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:e" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:26:32 -0600l2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>A Subject: Re: Thoughts about VMS ECOs now in .PCSI$COMPRESSED form.+ Message-ID: <42140EE7.AB9FDD93@comcast.net>e   JimStrehlow@data911.com wrote: > 7 > H.P., is there a reason why you avoid the ZIP format?6  H Like as not, its NIH syndrome. DCX predates VMS, AFAIK, and "belongs" to DEC and successors.t  G The ZIP algorithm was made public domain by its developer, Phil Katz ofrH PKware fame (PKZIP, PKUNZIP). I believe it is license-free, but I may be wrong on that.  ? ZIP can be quite a bit more efficient than DCX. Compressed text E libraries typically compress about 30% or so when passed through ZIP.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:t" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/e   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 03:47:34 GMTu5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)m) Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1602052247420001@user-105n84p.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <xQPQd.23193$ya6.22641@trndny01>, "Carl Bennett"m <carltbennett@yahoo.com> wrote:e   >Hello all,,,, > M >    Seems that we just started getting out VMS 8.2 kit at work, but looking tG >at it, we only seem to have been shipped the Alpha dist... imagine my /G >dissapointment when I went looking for the right disk to stick in the  > >2600...  has anybody started receiving the Itanium kit yet... >g >Carl   I Itanium should take a week or so longer than alpha.  Don't know the exactmE date off the top of my head.  DVD production goes through a different1 process than the alpha CDs.h  > (Yes, the VMS installation kit for Itanium is on DVD, not CD.)   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 14:23:55 -05007 From: "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu>:$ Subject: VMS and Comcast cable modem. Message-ID: <42139dcb@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>  E At home I have a broadband Comcast connection via a cable modem.  The E home machine is a PW600au running VMS V7.3-2 and TCPIP V5.4-15: it ise@ connected to the cable modem via a router (the wife's PC is alsoE connected to this router via a firewall router).  I use my connectionaD very extensively to SSH to my work machines at all hours, so I leaveF the connection on permanently.  As is common with ISPs, the IP address) of the home machine is obtained via DHCP.   H For the past six weeks, this connection has been uninterrupted (the lastH time it was done was when I had to shut the machine down to replace someI faulty memory cards): until four days ago, when my sessions into the work>8 machines froze.  The home machine continued to function:H TCPIP SHOW INTER WE0 showed packets being sent and received, but I couldD not type anything into the remote windows and those windows were notH updated.  This has now happened about ten times since then.  The problemI can be fixed by logging out, logging in as SYSTEM, running TCPIP$SHUTDOWNaH and TCPIP$STARTUP, and then logging back in as myself.  But this is damnB inconvenient and I'd like to understand what is going wrong beforeH contacting Comcast, whose technical support staff have a very PC-centric view of the world.   Two causes spring to mind:  F 1) My ethernet card is failing.  This seems a tad unlikely, as I wouldE    expect to see errors in TCPIP SHOW INTER WE0/FULL and there aren'tf    any.e  D 2) Comcast has reconfigured something and this is causing the VMS IPB    stack to "get confused".  A quick comparison of TCPIP SHOW NAME?    output on a work and home machine shows a subtle difference:h      a) work machine outpute         $ tcpip show nameo         BIND Resolver Parameters  $        Local domain: cfa.harvard.edu  
        Systemn  #         State:     Started, Enabled            Transport: UDP"         Domain:    cfa.harvard.edu         Retry:     4         Timeout:   41         Servers:    131.142.10.1, 128.103.200.101l%         Path:       No values defined       b) home machine outputs         $ tcpip show name          BIND Resolver Parameters  (        Local domain: hsd1.ma.comcast.net  
        Systemn  #         State:     Started, Enabledc           Transport: UDP'         Domain:    hsd1.ma.comcast.net.y         Retry:     4         Timeout:   43         Servers:    204.127.202.19, 216.148.227.204o(         Path:       hsd1.ma.comcast.net.  H    Note the full stop (periods) at the end of Domain: and Path:  Is this@ punctuation valid?  I note that the domain name now displayed is4 different from what I remember it being in the past.   So my questions are:  * 1) Is the BIND output a clue to the cause?  D 2) Is anyone else in the Boston area with a Comcast cable modem also&    experiencing connectivity problems?         Gareth   -- eH ------------------------------------------------------------------------H Gareth V. Williams, MS 18, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A.+ Associate Director, IAU Minor Planet CenteryH gwilliams@cfa.harvard.edu        http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/mpc.html7 OpenVMS & RISC OS: refined choices in operating systemsu   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:18:38 +0000 (UTC)67 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)S( Subject: Re: VMS and Comcast cable modem/ Message-ID: <cv09qu$8ie$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>   h In article <42139dcb@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>, "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> writes: !snip of problem explication! E !2) Comcast has reconfigured something and this is causing the VMS IP C !   stack to "get confused".  A quick comparison of TCPIP SHOW NAME5@ !   output on a work and home machine shows a subtle difference: !  !   a) work machine output !g !      $ tcpip show name !i !      BIND Resolver Parametersp !e% !       Local domain: xxx.harvard.edu- !- !       System !F$ !        State:     Started, Enabled !v !        Transport: UDP7# !        Domain:    xxx.harvard.edu6 !        Retry:     4. !        Timeout:   4 2 !        Servers:    xxx.xxx.xx.x, xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx& !        Path:       No values defined !s !   b) home machine output !- !      $ tcpip show name !  !      BIND Resolver Parameters  ! ) !       Local domain: xxxx.xx.comcast.net> !u !       System !o$ !        State:     Started, Enabled !. !        Transport: UDPm( !        Domain:    xxxx.xx.comcast.net. !        Retry:     4n !        Timeout:   4I4 !        Servers:    xxx.xxx.xxx.xx, xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) !        Path:       xxxx.xx.comcast.net.0 ! I !   Note the full stop (periods) at the end of Domain: and Path:  Is thisnA !punctuation valid?  I note that the domain name now displayed iso5 !different from what I remember it being in the past.c !m !So my questions are:  !e+ !1) Is the BIND output a clue to the cause?e !u  O I am using TCPware as my IP stack. From what I remember of TCP/IP Services, the L BIND output looks a little odd.  I'm used to seeing "No values defined" as aI proper "value" for Path:.  The domain value looks a little odd, too.  ThetI trailing "." may be incorrect, as well as the naming information _before_8M "comcast.net".  BTW, my bind server/domain information points to my firewall,hN not the "outside".  My firewall's bind server/domain information points to the
 "outside".  E !2) Is anyone else in the Boston area with a Comcast cable modem alsol' !   experiencing connectivity problems?n !a  M I'm not experiencing any problems with Comcast in the Boston area, nor have Is9 in the 3+ years that I've used a VMS machine from home.  v   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2005 16:38:01 -05007 From: "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu>1( Subject: Re: VMS and Comcast cable modem. Message-ID: <4213bd39@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>  6 Gareth V. Williams <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> wrote:B : connected to the cable modem via a router (the wife's PC is alsoG : connected to this router via a firewall router).  I use my connectione  H   Terminology snafu.  Should have read "connected to the cable modem viaC an ethernet switch (the wife's PC is also connected this switch viae a firewall router)."  F   I've received a number of e-mail responses, I will do some follow-up
 by e-mail.  	    Gareth4   -- 4H ------------------------------------------------------------------------H Gareth V. Williams, MS 18, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A.+ Associate Director, IAU Minor Planet Center H gwilliams@cfa.harvard.edu        http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/mpc.html7 OpenVMS & RISC OS: refined choices in operating systemsn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:53:41 -0500f= From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <john@nfw-invalid.cibtrikker.com>l( Subject: Re: VMS and Comcast cable modem, Message-ID: <RY6dnckNrqp6XY7fRVn-qw@dls.net>  C "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> wrote in message t( news:42139dcb@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu...G > At home I have a broadband Comcast connection via a cable modem.  The-G > home machine is a PW600au running VMS V7.3-2 and TCPIP V5.4-15: it isEB > connected to the cable modem via a router (the wife's PC is alsoG > connected to this router via a firewall router).  I use my connection F > very extensively to SSH to my work machines at all hours, so I leaveH > the connection on permanently.  As is common with ISPs, the IP address+ > of the home machine is obtained via DHCP.  > J > For the past six weeks, this connection has been uninterrupted (the lastJ > time it was done was when I had to shut the machine down to replace someK > faulty memory cards): until four days ago, when my sessions into the workf: > machines froze.  The home machine continued to function:J > TCPIP SHOW INTER WE0 showed packets being sent and received, but I couldF > not type anything into the remote windows and those windows were notJ > updated.  This has now happened about ten times since then.  The problemK > can be fixed by logging out, logging in as SYSTEM, running TCPIP$SHUTDOWNiJ > and TCPIP$STARTUP, and then logging back in as myself.  But this is damnD > inconvenient and I'd like to understand what is going wrong beforeJ > contacting Comcast, whose technical support staff have a very PC-centric > view of the world. >  > Two causes spring to mind: > H > 1) My ethernet card is failing.  This seems a tad unlikely, as I wouldF >   expect to see errors in TCPIP SHOW INTER WE0/FULL and there aren't >   any. >TF > 2) Comcast has reconfigured something and this is causing the VMS IPC >   stack to "get confused".  A quick comparison of TCPIP SHOW NAMEj@ >   output on a work and home machine shows a subtle difference: >c >   a) work machine output >l >      $ tcpip show name >n >      BIND Resolver Parameters  >d% >       Local domain: cfa.harvard.eduD >E >       System >/$ >        State:     Started, Enabled >  >        Transport: UDPh# >        Domain:    cfa.harvard.edue >        Retry:     4t >        Timeout:   4d2 >        Servers:    131.142.10.1, 128.103.200.101& >        Path:       No values defined >e >   b) home machine output >t >      $ tcpip show name >  >      BIND Resolver Parameterse >a) >       Local domain: hsd1.ma.comcast.nets >  >       System >h$ >        State:     Started, Enabled >e >        Transport: UDP ( >        Domain:    hsd1.ma.comcast.net. >        Retry:     4  >        Timeout:   4e4 >        Servers:    204.127.202.19, 216.148.227.204) >        Path:       hsd1.ma.comcast.net.n >"I >   Note the full stop (periods) at the end of Domain: and Path:  Is thissB > punctuation valid?  I note that the domain name now displayed is6 > different from what I remember it being in the past. >r > So my questions are: >o, > 1) Is the BIND output a clue to the cause? >BF > 2) Is anyone else in the Boston area with a Comcast cable modem also' >   experiencing connectivity problems?e >v
 >      GarethK >l > -- eJ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------J > Gareth V. Williams, MS 18, 60 Garden Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A.- > Associate Director, IAU Minor Planet CentereJ > gwilliams@cfa.harvard.edu        http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/mpc.html9 > OpenVMS & RISC OS: refined choices in operating systemso  J I was having similar problems with Adelphia when they changed their lease I times to 3 hours (and sometimes less).  I would also lose telnet and ssh r" sessions from my pc and/or laptop.   -John    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:31:57 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>( Subject: Re: VMS and Comcast cable modem+ Message-ID: <4214102C.9C088873@comcast.net>O   "Gareth V. Williams" wrote:T > 8 > Gareth V. Williams <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> wrote:D > : connected to the cable modem via a router (the wife's PC is alsoI > : connected to this router via a firewall router).  I use my connection, > J >   Terminology snafu.  Should have read "connected to the cable modem viaE > an ethernet switch (the wife's PC is also connected this switch via2 > a firewall router)."  F Well, either way, you'll want to make sure that the firewall/router isC between the cable modem and the switch. No system should be exposed05 directly to the internet without a valid reason, IMO.   = Cable Modem ---- Router/Firewall ---- Switch ---- Computer(s)o   -- A David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems: http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:s" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/g   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:47:19 +0100n" From: Didier MORANDI <no@spam.com>( Subject: Re: VMS Group purchase process?( Message-ID: <42139537.44F1D08E@spam.com>  	 Marcello?    D.   David J Dachtera a *crit : >  > Didier Morandi wrote:m > >i > > A question:a > > L > > What could be a purchase process to see HP sell the VMS Group to someone	 > > else?a > >o? > > Send a letter to the interim CEO and ask for a rendez-vous?m > J > If you have the resources, I'm sure the current VMS exec.'s could direct4 > you to the proper people to open the negotiations.     Coming soon:$ Unofficial SAP CRM Support Home Page   -- e3  Didier MORANDI - VMS Expert and SAP CRM Consultant 4 13 chemin du Gu - 1213 Petit-Lancy (GE) Switzerland0     Phone: +4179 8199735 - www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:57:44 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>p( Subject: Re: VMS Group purchase process?, Message-ID: <XoGdnQI3msWEZ47fRVn-3A@igs.net>  J Actually, VMS could make an excellent purchase for a large pension fund as$ long as it was extensively marketed.       Didier MORANDI wrote: F > next question is I do know of some Swiss Financers who are wonderingG > about spending some money in the best operating system ever produced, 1 > mainly in this international security crisis...a >e > D. >s > John Smith a *crit : >a >> Didier Morandi wrote: >>> A question:h >>>.D >>> What could be a purchase process to see HP sell the VMS Group to >>> someone else?u >>> ? >>> Send a letter to the interim CEO and ask for a rendez-vous?h >>F >> Step 1: Have at least $2 billion in small unmarked bills before you >> call or write.o >> >> Next question?n >> >> --n0 >> OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.   --  - OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:02:22 -0600o2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>( Subject: Re: VMS Group purchase process?* Message-ID: <4214093E.8F89800@comcast.net>   Didier MORANDI wrote:x >  > Marcello?i  $ I was thinking Mark G., or even Sue!   -- f David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/h   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:20:53 -0500f' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design   flaw   flaw nR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F503@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Ken Fairfield [mailto:my.full.name@intel.com]=20! > Sent: February 16, 2005 8:08 PMx > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como= > Subject: Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re:=20e" > DECW$CLOCK design flaw flaw flaw >=20    [snip lots of physics stuff ...]   >=20 >      -Ken. > --=20 8 > I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... >=20 > Ken Fairfieldi# > D1C Automation VMS System Supportr$ > who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield > where: intel dot com >=20 >=20   Ken,  D Wow - it's amazing what backgrounds some folks have lurking in their  resumes besides techie IT stuff.   :-)d   Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanth HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660y Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:08:12 -0800u, From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>Y Subject: Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design   flaw   flawf + Message-ID: <cv0qps$ia7$1@news01.intel.com>p   Dave Froble wrote:! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:e > ? >> We can pulse the fields at just the right rhythm so that the J >> particle is always on the downward slope as it passes each accelerationE >> point.  Again, there is no relativistic speed limit on our abilityeF >> to pulse these fields.  We can do it at 10 times the speed of light9 >> if we like.  But if we do, the particle won't keep up.y >> >>     John Briggs >  > L > You're still pushing from the perspective of the pusher, not the particle. > J > I know of no research done from the perspective of the particle, mainly B > because we do not have the capability of being on a particle at K > lightspeed relative to an outside observer.  The real question, which at sJ > this time we cannot answer, is what's possible relative to the particle ? > that's at or near lightspeed relative to an outside observer.e > 9 > It's been many years since I was into such, so be kind.o  @      Gads, I guess I'll have to step in here being an elementary! particle physicist by training...f  ?      We have a lot of examples of particles "traveling at lighto@ speed" and the effects of special relativity on them.  If you'll> allow me to switch the perspective just slightly, from "speed"< to time, time dilation happens every day...to cosmic "rays".  ;      To points of fact: when cosmic rays (usually energetics; protons) hit molecules in the upper atmosphere, a shower ofs; secondary particles is produced, most of which are pions (a 9 simple up-quark/down-quark pairing).  These have a fairly : short lifetime and decay quickly to muons (and neutrinos).8 All of the charged particle remnants of cosmic rays that  we detect a sea level are muons.  ?      Now muons are moderately stable: they decay to an electrona; and two neutrinos with a mean lifetime of 2.6 microseconds.t< Now do the math: at the velocity of light, how far do you go< in 2.6 microseconds?  Ans: 3x10^8 m/s x 2.6x10^-6s = 780 m .@ That's a lot less than the 20km to 30km where these particle are< formed.  Therefore, that fact that muons are detected at sea< level AT ALL proves time dilation is at work.  That is, from9 the point of view of the muon itself, very much less than1< 2.6 microseconds has elapsed from when it was formed to when' it arrives at the surface of the earth.d  =      The same effect allows the measurement of non-zero decayc8 path lengths of exotic particles produced in accelerator2 experiments (google for SLAC BABAR and/or PEP II).  =      Oh, and most of the remarks about "pushing" particles isn= flat wrong as well.  What John referred to above (I think) isp= the fact the the phase velocity of waves can exceed the speedi: of light (but don't worry, only the group velocity carries8 information, so Einstein is still happy).  In a particle= accelerator, the electromagnetic fields inside of RF cavitiest7 are phased to match the velocity of the particles being > accelerated (for electrons and positrons, that essentially c),< so the particles "feel" a constant acceleration, even though> their "speed" as measured in the rest frame of the accelerator0 is fixed (once you're above about 1 GeV energy).  	      -Keng -- e6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Supportw" who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.095 ************************olved with tachyons F such as their imaginary mass, or serious causality problems, and such.  ? Anyway, this is the case for the validity of the speed of lighteC barrier. I doubt the case for the 100-mph or speedw_~ףXƫWwB믽Ii% >kxw0f>iO.-I\|{VRᓎJrGr<Jx5 {lҠV7!N.Iτ`^P%gX.%s{fX7δyl+}J9tl~щTqo8"̈́i%p)>θ(W2J2ra;MlпIXkLkUsҶZ>mx8lKy<mˍ99ϔwh]i<whg/FQ(QK\M<ˏ+}˄X_"d%)thO""zCu
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