0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 17 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 96      Contents: 7.21 7.32 upgrade oddities# Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down # Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down  IA64 webinar transcripts posted ) linux kernel has major security flaws ... - Re: linux kernel has major security flaws ... - Re: linux kernel has major security flaws ... 1 Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions 1 Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions 1 Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions 1 Re: mandatory 7.32 update (in 8.2 ship) questions 1 Re: mandatory 7.32 update (in 8.2 ship) questions ! Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP  Need performance help   Re: NFS mounts to Solaris Server4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 RE: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?4 Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? Re: PDFs for HP C docs/ Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ?  Re: rx5670 for $2K Re: rx5670 for $2K Re: rx5670 for $2K Re: set shadow/log bug Re: set shadow/log bug( Re: So how big a parachute did she have? Sound on a PWS Re: Sound on a PWS Re: Sound on a PWS Re: Sound on a PWS Re: Sound on a PWS Re: Sound on a PWSD Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !)D Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !) Re: Status of devices 8 Re: Thoughts about VMS ECOs now in .PCSI$COMPRESSED form Re: VMS and Comcast cable modem  [OT:] BiometricsA Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design  [OT]: Linux security pitch Re: [OT]: Linux security pitch. [OT]: Substitute VMS for Linux in this article2 Re: [OT]: Substitute VMS for Linux in this article [OT]: Windows XP64 Pro RC2 beta # Re: [OT]: Windows XP64 Pro RC2 beta # RE: [OT]: Windows XP64 Pro RC2 beta # Re: [OT]: Windows XP64 Pro RC2 beta   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 05:15:56 -0800 From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com # Subject: 7.21 7.32 upgrade oddities B Message-ID: <1108646155.964807.61910@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   I find that the command:   set acl/obje=logi "FOOBAR"   no longer works even when:   set acl/obje=logi FOOBAR  & works, with logical name table FOOBAR.  & I wonder it there are any other syntax changes?  ) I notice that "SET ACL" has been obsolete * a long time.  My bad.  Maybe I will change% to "SET SECURITY".  Is there a simple * rule for transforming "SET ACL" statements to "SET SECURITY".   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:22:52 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) , Subject: Re: HP financials: Alpha sales downL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1702050622530001@user-uinj4c2.dialup.mindspring.com>  E In article <1108616334.31cc005d5893876d514ad322c4075084@teranews>, JF + Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    >>h http://news.com.com/HP+delivers+first+earnings+report+post-Fiorina/2100-7341_3-5579498.html?tag=nefd.top >  >## F >HP also saw its profitability in its server and storage segment drop,H >even as sales continued to rise. The company posted an operating profitF >of $71 million, down from $153 million in the year-ago quarter, whileF >revenue rose 9 percent, to $4 billion. The company saw sales gains inF >its industry standard and HP-UX server sales, but it saw drops in its( >NonStop and AlphaServer product lines.  >##  >  > F >So this would seem to go against the rumours of VMS sales increasing.   AlphaServer = VMS + Tru64.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 06:45:35 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: HP financials: Alpha sales downB Message-ID: <1108639990.ec672680412211b02562c18777061fe0@teranews>   Robert Deininger wrote: H > >So this would seem to go against the rumours of VMS sales increasing. >  > AlphaServer = VMS + Tru64.  E I would have though that Tru64 sales would have completely stabilised F (to a very low level) some time ago. Wouldn't VMS slaes have accountedH for the vast majority of Alpha sales in the last year or two since Tru647 was officially without any future since Sept 7th 2001 ?   G The fact that HP killed the port of TruCluster to HP-UX wouldn't really % have affected Tru64 sales, would it ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:55:19 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ( Subject: IA64 webinar transcripts posted, Message-ID: <3v2dnRc1lOjVP4nfRVn-jg@igs.net>  6 http://www.openvms.org/phorum/read.php?f=6&i=428&t=428   ...scroll to bottom for link   --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 05:39:08 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com 2 Subject: linux kernel has major security flaws ...C Message-ID: <1108647548.633571.157540@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   3 how can people even seriously consider running this  garbage when vms is out there?  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21295    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:06:34 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: linux kernel has major security flaws ..., Message-ID: <JeOdnZp3n_Z2OYnfRVn-qA@igs.net>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:5 > how can people even seriously consider running this   > garbage when vms is out there? > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21295       I Easy answer - HP doesn't tell them that VMS exists and what it can do for  them.   L And if you are a VAR selling less than $1MM worth of 'VMS' annually....well,L you aren't a VAR any more, so there goes 25-40% of the potential independent" sales force pitching VMS to SMB's.  J A smart strategy for a small VAR would be to configure a small VMS server,J stick Stalker Communigate Pro, MySQL (or Firebird if it were available), aC decent IP stack, and good low cost backup package and sell it as an L alternative to 2-3 Windows machines running Exchange and SQL Server to SMB'sI . They could also do small clusters. But HP won't let you get involved if D you sell only $999,999 worth of HP stuff.  So the VAR's gravitate to* something else...Windows, Linux, Sun......  G It's time that the VMS (& hardware) sales effort is co-ordinated out of J Nashua only, with people there running interference with the rest of HP toL make it simple for smaller VAR's.  Other things too - like co-op advertisingE dollars for ads specifically about VMS - it's done everywhere else by  vendors.   --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:21:51 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>6 Subject: Re: linux kernel has major security flaws ...( Message-ID: <4214E0BF.A72C8C70@mist.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > 5 > how can people even seriously consider running this   > garbage when vms is out there? > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21295   . Simple:  Linux runs on their PCs, VMS doesn't.. And they'd at least try running Linux over XP.   --  2 "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as,  when they do it from religious conviction."2         Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:36:19 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>: Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions/ Message-ID: <n51Rd.209$0H7.53@news.cpqcorp.net>   . <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> wrote in message< news:1108610162.337807.50030@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >  > FredK wrote: > G > > It's like sausage, you might not really want to know what goes into  > it ;-) > > D > > I reality, VMS_LOADER.EFI doesn't do a whole lot except load IPB > (which of * > > course is a vast over simplification). > > I > > The stuff that happens on both IPF and Alpha between the boot command E > > and the point SYSBOOT takes over is largely magic, and known well  > only= > > by a handful of people who actually have to make it work.  > I > I like sausage.  I also like magic.  I'm really interested in how these G > .EFI programs were created, as they appear to be programs rather than 
 > scripts. >   I EFI is a small limited purpose OS.  You can write applications (programs) K for it using toolkits from wither Intel or Microsoft.  The applications can F be anything from diagnostics, to a FTP file transfer application.  OneF particular type of EFI application is the boot loader.  The only thingH "special" about it is that it calls the routine that ends boot services,G and never returns.  Most EFI boot loaders simply pull in the files they G need to boot.  VMS pulls in a single file (IPB.EXE) which is not an EFI B application, but built on VMS - and which knows how to get SYSBOOT? (again, there are other important things it does, and this is a  simplification).  G > I'm looking at having to support some number of rxXXXX boxes that are G > in remote locations; I'm not sure if everything that I want to do can   > be done via plain EFI scripts. > E > For example, let's say I have to replace my system disk and restore  > from an image backup...  > H > On an Alpha, I simply type B DKA0 and I'm all set -- this is very easyF > for my users to remember.  My experience on Itanium is that the bootH > information has some kind of disk-partition/other-magic-code stored inF > the NVRAM, so even if the disk is in the same slot and bootable, theC > saved boot information is different so the system won't boot.  My G > remote users are not the kind to use BCFG commands in order to change G > things.  This part can likely be done via a script, but it seems more  > hackerly to write a program. >   G The problem you describe here is a real one.  But no script or EFI will  help.   F If you make an *exact* duplicate of your system disk using backup - soI that even the GUIDs in the partition information are identical - then you J should be able to slide one disk out, and another in - and simply boot it.  E But if the GUIDs don't match, then you need to either using the menus J or the EFI shell, do something different.  There is not really some script that you san write to help.   D The firmware people are working on auto-fallback booting (so you setH up the boot list, and it will try each on the list in a loop that can be controlled).   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 08:29:45 -0800! From: kenneth.randell@verizon.net : Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessionsC Message-ID: <1108657785.912704.210460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    FredK wrote: > E > If you make an *exact* duplicate of your system disk using backup -  soG > that even the GUIDs in the partition information are identical - then  you C > should be able to slide one disk out, and another in - and simply  boot it. > G > But if the GUIDs don't match, then you need to either using the menus E > or the EFI shell, do something different.  There is not really some  script > that you san write to help.   ? How does one make an 'exact' duplicate?  My experience in using D $BACKUP/IMAGE disk1 disk2 gives me different GUIDs on the two disks,C even though the 2nd disk is bootable.  For example, my system disk1 # (internal 36GB drive in DKA0 slot):     fs0   :\ Acpi(HWP0002,100)/Pci(1|0)/Scsi(Pun0,Lun0)/HD(Part1,Sig9DA11D31-7FFF-11D9-B359-AA000400FEFF)  G My backup system disk created with backup/image (also 36GB but in MSA30  box) gives me:   fs2   : \ Acpi(HWP0002,100)/Pci(1|1)/Scsi(Pun2,Lun0)/HD(Part1,Sig968CC781-8039-11D9-9775-454E47323435)  E If I could make an 'exact' duplicate, this helps my efforts somewhat.    > F > The firmware people are working on auto-fallback booting (so you setG > up the boot list, and it will try each on the list in a loop that can  be > controlled).  E This would be good; I can handle this as I can tell which device I've E booted from once VMS loads and gets started; however, it doesn't look 2 like EFI firmware updates are loads of fun though.  D While we are at this, is it possible to change the SCSI ID's/bus forC the 3 internal drives on the rx26x0?  They handily come up as DKA0, E DKA100, and DKB200 which I guess is why external drive shelves aren't 7 supported on the 68-pin plug on the back on the rx26x0?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 17:31:46 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>: Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions/ Message-ID: <6y4Rd.240$QU7.38@news.cpqcorp.net>   . <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> wrote in message= news:1108657785.912704.210460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...  >  > FredK wrote: > > G > > If you make an *exact* duplicate of your system disk using backup -  > soI > > that even the GUIDs in the partition information are identical - then  > you E > > should be able to slide one disk out, and another in - and simply 
 > boot it. > > I > > But if the GUIDs don't match, then you need to either using the menus G > > or the EFI shell, do something different.  There is not really some  > script > > that you san write to help.  > A > How does one make an 'exact' duplicate?  My experience in using F > $BACKUP/IMAGE disk1 disk2 gives me different GUIDs on the two disks,E > even though the 2nd disk is bootable.  For example, my system disk1 % > (internal 36GB drive in DKA0 slot):  > 
 >  fs0   : > L Acpi(HWP0002,100)/Pci(1|0)/Scsi(Pun0,Lun0)/HD(Part1,Sig9DA11D31-7FFF-11D9-B3 59-AA000400FEFF) > I > My backup system disk created with backup/image (also 36GB but in MSA30  > box) gives me: > 	 > fs2   :  > L Acpi(HWP0002,100)/Pci(1|1)/Scsi(Pun2,Lun0)/HD(Part1,Sig968CC781-8039-11D9-97 75-454E47323435) > G > If I could make an 'exact' duplicate, this helps my efforts somewhat.  >   L Frankly, I don't know.  Hoff may have a way.  Backup does a callback to hook the I boot stuff up, including creating the partition headers - I don't know if 
 there is a< way to have backup do this so that a new GUID isn't created.   > F > While we are at this, is it possible to change the SCSI ID's/bus forE > the 3 internal drives on the rx26x0?  They handily come up as DKA0, G > DKA100, and DKB200 which I guess is why external drive shelves aren't 9 > supported on the 68-pin plug on the back on the rx26x0?  >   L I've never really even though about it.  I'll see if I can find out.  But as toD the SCSI port on the back, we routinely use these for external driveH shelfs.  The original box had a sticker (I think for HP-UX) that said itB wasn't supported.  And early on, VMS didn't have a U320 LSI driverA (so we required a U160 LSI board).  But that hasn't been the case  for a long time.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 07:50:38 -0800 From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com : Subject: Re: mandatory 7.32 update (in 8.2 ship) questionsB Message-ID: <1108655438.141224.67830@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:. > There is a mandatory update CD for 7.32 that% > comes with the recent 8.2 shipment.  > 4 > But, reading the .txt files in the 7.32 directory,4 > it seems that one needs to apply VMS732_PCSI_V0100, > patch before applying the patch on the CD.3 > However, this preliminary patch is not on the CD. 2 > And, the patch does not seem to be in any of the > quaterlies since 7.32. > - > So, I guess I have to go to the web to find / > the preliminary patch that is required before ( > I apply the patch available on the CD. > & > Or did I overlook something? Was the( > VMS732_PCSI_V0100 patch sent in one of > the quarterlies? > , > Also, they did not ship a mentioned DECnet0 > phase IV patch required to get the full effect0 > of the upgrade, but this is a lessor sin since1 > not everybody is not running phase IV, I guess.   - Well, the DECnet phase IV patch mentioned is:     DEC-AXPVMS-DNVOSIMUP01-V0703-2-4   Is not available here:  2 ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V7.3-2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:23:36 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.com: Subject: Re: mandatory 7.32 update (in 8.2 ship) questionsQ Message-ID: <OF5396AA4A.53D5630C-ON85256FAB.005F5D9F-85256FAB.005FD84E@metso.com>   4 tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote on 02/17/2005 10:50:38 AM:   >  > tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:0 > > There is a mandatory update CD for 7.32 that' > > comes with the recent 8.2 shipment.  > > 6 > > But, reading the .txt files in the 7.32 directory,6 > > it seems that one needs to apply VMS732_PCSI_V0100. > > patch before applying the patch on the CD.5 > > However, this preliminary patch is not on the CD. 4 > > And, the patch does not seem to be in any of the > > quaterlies since 7.32. > > / > > So, I guess I have to go to the web to find 1 > > the preliminary patch that is required before * > > I apply the patch available on the CD. > > ( > > Or did I overlook something? Was the* > > VMS732_PCSI_V0100 patch sent in one of > > the quarterlies? > > . > > Also, they did not ship a mentioned DECnet2 > > phase IV patch required to get the full effect2 > > of the upgrade, but this is a lessor sin since3 > > not everybody is not running phase IV, I guess.  > / > Well, the DECnet phase IV patch mentioned is:  > " > DEC-AXPVMS-DNVOSIMUP01-V0703-2-4 >  > Is not available here: > 4 > ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V7.3-2   > - Well, it probably should be here, but is not:   = ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/layered_products/alpha/    and IIRC DNVOSI is phase V.    You should e-mail    George Pagliarulo  ECO Release Process  OpenVMS Sustaining Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company  110 Spit Brook Road  Nashua, New Hampshire 03062  Tel# (603)884-1000  e-mail: george.pagliarulo@hp.com   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 00:23:57 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) * Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0502170023.4ea2c77b@posting.google.com>   F Not really. If you find a disk which appears to be a shadowset member,A you can mount it with the /INCLUDE qualifier and it will find its  fellow members automatically.   	 Bart Zorn   | helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in message news:<cuvve8$lj6$1@online.de>...      [ S n i p ... ]  H > As I mention, I have shadow sets.  So I have to have a list of labels J > somewhere, so I might as well have a list of disks.  Or should I try to J > mount all possible combinations of 2 or 3 disks and see which are valid ; > shadow sets by taking action depending on the error code?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:53:05 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> Subject: Need performance help< Message-ID: <5l1Rd.2437$Go4.101119@twister.southeast.rr.com>  8 Please email this guy directly if you're able to assist.    Rajat.Gupta(at)gb.vodafone.co.uk  6 I've also posted in OpenVMS Tech forum on OpenVMS.org:  8 http://www.openvms.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=1533&t=1533   Hello ,   J Thank you very much for the reponse. I want to know of any profiling tool ) avalaible for openVMS like gprof on unix.   M Actually I have a process that gives a performance of 20000 transactions per  M sec on linux machine but gives only 3000 transactions on an OpenVMS platform  H with maximum CPU utilization. I want to get hold of the limiting issues.   Hope I made clear my issues.  & Looking forward to hear from you soon.   Cheers Rajat      --     Ken    OpenVMS.org % _____________________________________  Kenneth R. Farmer <>< % SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 08:05:55 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: NFS mounts to Solaris Server 3 Message-ID: <9gwdDITlD1RL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <1108579875.304537.292730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Jim" <main@ulticom.com> writes: > Jim and Bob, > ? > Thanks for your input. I have the nfs mount permanence set. .  > I > If I may ask one more question, is it possible to compile files on unix  > from openvms? 3 > The case sensitivity issue is getting in the way. I > The more I look and think about it, I think we have to go to upper case  > names.  D    If I read this right, you have something like able.c on your UNIXE    system readable from VMS and you want to use the VMS C compiler to     compile it?  D    This should work.  If not, please share the errors you're seeing.  E    What you will have problems with is if your application depends on F    something like both able.c and Able.c, or using .c vs. .C for C/C++H    distinction.  The latter can be handled by specifically telling whichE    compiler to compile which file.  VMS compilers don't care what the F    name or extension of the input file is, the C compiler assumes it's<    reading C, the C++ compiler assumes it's reading C++, ...  E    And you will have problems using default rules in MMS.  Try gmake.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 02:33:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> = Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? B Message-ID: <1108624898.4b72846fc2fcfeae325e3f1dfb4fadf8@teranews>  
 leslie wrote:  > F > One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would be to offerB > the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server.  A Is there a NNTP server on VMS that supports user authentication ?   F Such a service would be a neat technology demonstration, especially ifF it were setup for free by hobbyists, a showcase of how simple it wouldF be compared to the complex and expensive distributed solution sused byJ services such as akamai and the large commercial distributed news servers.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:43:53 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? $ Message-ID: <cv1hvp$e6p$1@online.de>  0 In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>,. LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:   G > One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would be to offer  B > the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server.  G Back in the early days of Usenet, didn't DEC have one of the important  H news servers?  I think I remember reading this in an interview with one / of the old-time DEC guys, on the web somewhere.    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2005 14:24:47 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? , Message-ID: <37jnpfF5dnfhaU1@individual.net>  0 In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>,. 	LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:G > One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would be to offer  B > the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server. >   D Considering that it has been stated here often that VMS IO is slowerF than other systems that could easily backfire as USENET News is almost entirely IO bound.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2005 14:26:25 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? , Message-ID: <37jnshF5dnfhaU2@individual.net>  B In article <1108624898.4b72846fc2fcfeae325e3f1dfb4fadf8@teranews>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > leslie wrote:  >>  G >> One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would be to offer C >> the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server.  > C > Is there a NNTP server on VMS that supports user authentication ?  > H > Such a service would be a neat technology demonstration, especially ifH > it were setup for free by hobbyists, a showcase of how simple it wouldH > be compared to the complex and expensive distributed solution sused byL > services such as akamai and the large commercial distributed news servers.  C I can't imagine whatr solution they use but I ran a News Server for A a long time and it was one of the systems that required the least  of my time.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2005 14:28:18 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? , Message-ID: <37jo02F5dnfhaU3@individual.net>  $ In article <cv1hvp$e6p$1@online.de>,S 	helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 2 > In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>,0 > LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:  > H >> One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would be to offer C >> the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server.  > I > Back in the early days of Usenet, didn't DEC have one of the important  J > news servers?  I think I remember reading this in an interview with one 1 > of the old-time DEC guys, on the web somewhere.  >   F Well, in the really early days it was all based on UUCP.  I think thatD eliminated VMS until much later when someone got around to writing a
 clone for it.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 09:11:32 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? 3 Message-ID: <CWeWQ2wRr7$Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <37jnpfF5dnfhaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 2 > In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>,0 > 	LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:H >> One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would be to offer C >> the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server.  >>   > F > Considering that it has been stated here often that VMS IO is slowerH > than other systems that could easily backfire as USENET News is almost > entirely IO bound.  D I have not heard that VMS IO is slower.  The physics of the hardware should be the same.   F What I have heard is that standard C IO on VMS is slower than on otherJ systems, since it provides guarantees not required by the C specification.  ? Certainly a heavy duty news server would use better programming  techniques, such as $IOPERFORM.   D But I don't really see any market for such a product, so it seems toE me the Internet is doomed to Freeware sorts of implementations on all $ platforms for this application area.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 10:23:25 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> = Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? , Message-ID: <jpmdnS5kgIhyK4nfRVn-oA@igs.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:E > In article <37jnpfF5dnfhaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill  > Gunshannon) writes: 3 >> In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>, 0 >> LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:H >>> One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would be to offerD >>> the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server. >>>  >>G >> Considering that it has been stated here often that VMS IO is slower B >> than other systems that could easily backfire as USENET News is >> almost entirely IO bound. > F > I have not heard that VMS IO is slower.  The physics of the hardware > should be the same.  > H > What I have heard is that standard C IO on VMS is slower than on other= > systems, since it provides guarantees not required by the C  > specification. > A > Certainly a heavy duty news server would use better programming ! > techniques, such as $IOPERFORM.  > F > But I don't really see any market for such a product, so it seems toG > me the Internet is doomed to Freeware sorts of implementations on all & > platforms for this application area.    - Ah yes, the relentless pursuit of mediocrity.    --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 10:40:45 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> = Subject: RE: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F519@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]=20 " > Sent: February 17, 2005 10:12 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?  >=20B > In article <37jnpfF5dnfhaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu=20 > (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 4 > > In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>,2 > > 	LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:@ > >> One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would=20 > be to offer=20E > >> the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server.  > >>=20  > >=20H > > Considering that it has been stated here often that VMS IO is slower> > > than other systems that could easily backfire as USENET=20 > News is almost > > entirely IO bound. >=20F > I have not heard that VMS IO is slower.  The physics of the hardware > should be the same.  >=20H > What I have heard is that standard C IO on VMS is slower than on other@ > systems, since it provides guarantees not required by the C=20 > specification. >=20A > Certainly a heavy duty news server would use better programming ! > techniques, such as $IOPERFORM.  >=20F > But I don't really see any market for such a product, so it seems toG > me the Internet is doomed to Freeware sorts of implementations on all & > platforms for this application area. >=20   Larry,  C I would agree that the "VMS IO is slower" is one of those old wives : tales based on experiences with older versions of OpenVMS.  D As just one small example, recent versions of RMS (V7.3-1 and later)G have the capability to emulate UNIX IO write back characteristics using C dual buffer strategy. It is faster, but one needs to understand the G potential ramifications. In addition, I highly suspect that many of the C earlier testing may also have left the default highwater marking on C drives and that that will also potentially impact write performance / (target blocks are zeroed before write starts).   = Reference: (scroll down to section 5.11 new RMS capabilities) < http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6657/6657pro_007.htmlF "OpenVMS Alpha Version 7.3--1 introduces a new system RMS write-behindE performance option as a dynamic SYSGEN parameter (RMS_SEQFILE_WBH) to H externally request RMS to implement the write-behind feature as a systemC default (refer to the OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference F Manual). If this system option is set, RMS implements the existing RMS? user write-behind option as a system default (regardless of the F RAB$L_ROP RAB$V_WBH setting) whenever write access is requested for an9 unshared sequential file that is opened for image I/O.=20   H This feature is a system option. It is not the default, however, for the following reasons:=20 G - Enabling write-behind involves a change in error reporting that could @ affect some applications. (A write error might be reported for aA subsequent operation rather than for the write on which the error 
 occurred.)=20 F - The allocation of an additional RMS intermediate buffer might resultF in more page faulting if process working set quotas are insufficient."  F I remember some internal UNIX/VMS benchmarks whereby it was shown thatE OpenVMS was within +/- 10% of Tru64 UNIX numbers. Of course, like all C benchmarks, you will always be able to find one that performs a bitC better on one vs another.    Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660A Fax: 613-591-4477p kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2005 15:53:39 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?s, Message-ID: <37jt02F5ddkjiU1@individual.net>  , In article <jpmdnS5kgIhyK4nfRVn-oA@igs.net>,& 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:F >> In article <37jnpfF5dnfhaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill >> Gunshannon) writes:4 >>> In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>,1 >>> LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:NI >>>> One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would be to offersE >>>> the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server.w >>>> >>>lH >>> Considering that it has been stated here often that VMS IO is slowerC >>> than other systems that could easily backfire as USENET News isa >>> almost entirely IO bound.p >>G >> I have not heard that VMS IO is slower.  The physics of the hardwaree >> should be the same. >>I >> What I have heard is that standard C IO on VMS is slower than on otherp> >> systems, since it provides guarantees not required by the C >> specification.e >>B >> Certainly a heavy duty news server would use better programming" >> techniques, such as $IOPERFORM. >>G >> But I don't really see any market for such a product, so it seems to H >> me the Internet is doomed to Freeware sorts of implementations on all' >> platforms for this application area.  >  > / > Ah yes, the relentless pursuit of mediocrity.n >   D I realize it disturbs everyone here's sensibilities, but take a lookC at just how much data is moved all over the world every 24 hours byD those mediocre systems.    bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2005 15:59:05 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? , Message-ID: <37jta8F5ddkjiU2@individual.net>  R In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F519@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,* 	"Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >  >> -----Original Message-----o: >> From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]=20# >> Sent: February 17, 2005 10:12 AMg >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@ >> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? >>=20eC >> In article <37jnpfF5dnfhaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu=20  >> (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 >> > In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>,s3 >> > 	LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:oA >> >> One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would=20L >> be to offer=20EF >> >> the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server. >> >>=20 >> >=20mI >> > Considering that it has been stated here often that VMS IO is slowera? >> > than other systems that could easily backfire as USENET=20e >> News is almostn >> > entirely IO bound.e >>=201G >> I have not heard that VMS IO is slower.  The physics of the hardwaren >> should be the same. >>=20 I >> What I have heard is that standard C IO on VMS is slower than on other1A >> systems, since it provides guarantees not required by the C=20i >> specification.d >>=20eB >> Certainly a heavy duty news server would use better programming" >> techniques, such as $IOPERFORM. >>=20  > E > I would agree that the "VMS IO is slower" is one of those old wivest< > tales based on experiences with older versions of OpenVMS.  @ Not an old wives tale, true for exactly the reasons you state in? the rest of this post.  VMS opted for a different disk writtingo? paradigm and that brought with it overhead.  Not an indictment, = just another difference in philosophy.  So VMS can claim it's B writes are more reliable than Unix, but the price for that is lossB of write speed.  It is up to the implementor of a system to decideD which is more important.  USENET News is all about IO and the faster? the better because of the sheer volume of News that needs to bes moved (and read).    bill   > F > As just one small example, recent versions of RMS (V7.3-1 and later)I > have the capability to emulate UNIX IO write back characteristics using E > dual buffer strategy. It is faster, but one needs to understand therI > potential ramifications. In addition, I highly suspect that many of the E > earlier testing may also have left the default highwater marking onlE > drives and that that will also potentially impact write performance-1 > (target blocks are zeroed before write starts).m > ? > Reference: (scroll down to section 5.11 new RMS capabilities)o> > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6657/6657pro_007.htmlH > "OpenVMS Alpha Version 7.3--1 introduces a new system RMS write-behindG > performance option as a dynamic SYSGEN parameter (RMS_SEQFILE_WBH) to-J > externally request RMS to implement the write-behind feature as a systemE > default (refer to the OpenVMS System Management Utilities Reference1H > Manual). If this system option is set, RMS implements the existing RMSA > user write-behind option as a system default (regardless of the?H > RAB$L_ROP RAB$V_WBH setting) whenever write access is requested for an; > unshared sequential file that is opened for image I/O.=20  > J > This feature is a system option. It is not the default, however, for the > following reasons:=20ZI > - Enabling write-behind involves a change in error reporting that couldeB > affect some applications. (A write error might be reported for aC > subsequent operation rather than for the write on which the errorP > occurred.)=20mH > - The allocation of an additional RMS intermediate buffer might resultH > in more page faulting if process working set quotas are insufficient." > H > I remember some internal UNIX/VMS benchmarks whereby it was shown thatG > OpenVMS was within +/- 10% of Tru64 UNIX numbers. Of course, like alleE > benchmarks, you will always be able to find one that performs a bit  > better on one vs another.e > 	 > Regardsd >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultanti > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477S > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 > & > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..  > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   -- hJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 10:59:56 -0500f# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? , Message-ID: <Ks6dnYGcuKLgIonfRVn-rA@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message-----l7 >> From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]o# >> Sent: February 17, 2005 10:12 AM1 >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@ >> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ? >>@ >> In article <37jnpfF5dnfhaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu >> (Bill Gunshannon) writes:4 >>> In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>,1 >>> LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:-= >>>> One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity wouldh >> be to offerE >>>> the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server.. >>>> >>>-H >>> Considering that it has been stated here often that VMS IO is slower; >>> than other systems that could easily backfire as USENETg >> News is almostm >>> entirely IO bound. >>G >> I have not heard that VMS IO is slower.  The physics of the hardwaren >> should be the same. >>C >> What I have heard is that standard C IO on VMS is slower than on D >> other systems, since it provides guarantees not required by the C >> specification.  >>B >> Certainly a heavy duty news server would use better programming" >> techniques, such as $IOPERFORM. >>G >> But I don't really see any market for such a product, so it seems toeH >> me the Internet is doomed to Freeware sorts of implementations on all' >> platforms for this application area.f >> >e > Larry, >aE > I would agree that the "VMS IO is slower" is one of those old wivesI< > tales based on experiences with older versions of OpenVMS. > F > As just one small example, recent versions of RMS (V7.3-1 and later)C > have the capability to emulate UNIX IO write back characteristics G > using dual buffer strategy. It is faster, but one needs to understand F > the potential ramifications. In addition, I highly suspect that manyA > of the earlier testing may also have left the default highwateriD > marking on drives and that that will also potentially impact write= > performance (target blocks are zeroed before write starts).n >e? > Reference: (scroll down to section 5.11 new RMS capabilities) > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6657/6657pro_007.htmlH > "OpenVMS Alpha Version 7.3--1 introduces a new system RMS write-behindG > performance option as a dynamic SYSGEN parameter (RMS_SEQFILE_WBH) tosC > externally request RMS to implement the write-behind feature as asB > system default (refer to the OpenVMS System Management UtilitiesE > Reference Manual). If this system option is set, RMS implements thenG > existing RMS user write-behind option as a system default (regardlessB> > of the RAB$L_ROP RAB$V_WBH setting) whenever write access isD > requested for an unshared sequential file that is opened for image > I/O. >fF > This feature is a system option. It is not the default, however, for > the following reasons:C > - Enabling write-behind involves a change in error reporting that H > could affect some applications. (A write error might be reported for aC > subsequent operation rather than for the write on which the errort > occurred.)H > - The allocation of an additional RMS intermediate buffer might resultH > in more page faulting if process working set quotas are insufficient." >*H > I remember some internal UNIX/VMS benchmarks whereby it was shown thatG > OpenVMS was within +/- 10% of Tru64 UNIX numbers. Of course, like alldE > benchmarks, you will always be able to find one that performs a bits > better on one vs another.o    K I recall seeing the same data, probably in one of the inForm newsletters in  the mid/late-90's.  D It's probably worth dusting off an Alpha and loading VMS, Linux, andI possibly Tru64 on separate boot disks and doing the tests again if for no L other reason that if a favorable result is found (+/- 1-2%) it could be usedH in closed-door discussions with the 660 accounts that HP talks about VMS with.:     --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:22:34 -0800:' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>o= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?n+ Message-ID: <cv2gca$ntn$1@naig.caltech.edu>e   Main, Kerry wrote: >>-----Original Message-----7 >>From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net] I" >>Sent: February 17, 2005 10:12 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come? >>Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?c >>@ >>In article <37jnpfF5dnfhaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu  >>(Bill Gunshannon) writes:s >>3 >>>In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>,o1 >>>	LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:b >>>F= >>>>One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would ) >> >>be to offer  >>D >>>>the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server. >>>> >>>FG >>>Considering that it has been stated here often that VMS IO is slowerS; >>>than other systems that could easily backfire as USENET S >> >>News is almost >> >>>entirely IO bound.5 >>F >>I have not heard that VMS IO is slower.  The physics of the hardware >>should be the same.h >>H >>What I have heard is that standard C IO on VMS is slower than on other> >>systems, since it provides guarantees not required by the C  >>specification. >>A >>Certainly a heavy duty news server would use better programmingv! >>techniques, such as $IOPERFORM.g >>F >>But I don't really see any market for such a product, so it seems toG >>me the Internet is doomed to Freeware sorts of implementations on all & >>platforms for this application area. >> >  >  > Larry, > E > I would agree that the "VMS IO is slower" is one of those old wivese< > tales based on experiences with older versions of OpenVMS.  C How could it be otherwise?  Most of the users of OpenVMS have moved5F onto other systems and have no experience with the most recent version? or two.  Hard data speaks a lot louder than hand waving though.d  K I did a lot of benchmarking on DS10s and that code is still available here:e  D    ftp://saf.bio.caltech.edu/pub/software/benchmarks/mybenchmark.zip  ? Please feel free to run this on whichever platforms you choose,s@ with whichever version of VMS you choose, and report the results in this forum.  ? Personally, based on past experience, I don't expect to see anyi? VMS disk I/O test come within a factor of 2-3 of the equivalentfH linux I/O tests on identical hardware. This is because the disk caching A problem wasn't the whole issue.  Equivalent tests to RAMdisk were B also slower than on linux, and that's as close as one could get to5 apples vs. apples.  Google for the post or look here:/  -    http://saf.bio.caltech.edu/ramdisk_vms.txt   H To remove the remaining factor of 2-3x would require a serious reworking of RMS.   C I'd be happy to be wrong, but you're going to have to prove it with1B real test numbers before I'm going to believe the slow I/O problem has really been fixed.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:38:41 -08000' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>8= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?'+ Message-ID: <cv2hah$o7a$1@naig.caltech.edu>h   Main, Kerry wrote:E > I would agree that the "VMS IO is slower" is one of those old wives < > tales based on experiences with older versions of OpenVMS. >   A Note, for those of you who have forgotten just how poorly VMS did $ in these tests google in groups for:       mathog blade ds10 mybenchmark  D and select the one with the subject: blade vs. DS10 on "mybenchmark"  F These results are also in the download link I posted earlier, but this, will save you the trouble of unzipping that.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:12:24 -0500h' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> = Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?e0 Message-ID: <1119jior819529d@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:2 > In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>,0 > 	LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes: > G >>One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would be to offer 8B >>the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server. >> >  > F > Considering that it has been stated here often that VMS IO is slowerH > than other systems that could easily backfire as USENET News is almost > entirely IO bound. >  > bill >   E I'd guess that there's more reading than writing in this environment.   H Before the advent of VMS systems with rather large (to me) memory sizes G and caching, yes, I/O was disk bound.  Now large amounts of memory can  I be used for write-thru caching of data and throughput on a VMS system is 3 a much different thing.a  G In the recent past a customer had their VMS system come up without the rI caching enabled, and they reported the system as 'broken' because of the hG greatly reduced performance.  When caching was enabled the performance ?) returned to what they had come to expect.   G On a VMS system that is not write-bound, I'm thinking that windows and  < Unix might no longer have such a perceived performance edge.   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 12:16:25 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler):= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Cluster to Replace News.Individual.NET ?-3 Message-ID: <TtExC7Gbi$JD@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  W In article <37jnpfF5dnfhaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:o2 > In article <AkWQd.4066$cW2.47@fe2.texas.rr.com>,0 > 	LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:H >> One way to give OpenVMS some much-needed publicity would be to offer C >> the internet a multi-site OpenVMS cluster as a free news server.t >> c > F > Considering that it has been stated here often that VMS IO is slowerH > than other systems that could easily backfire as USENET News is almost > entirely IO bound.  G    There is no reason why a news server, or any application, can't makenC    use of buffers in the I/O routines to improve performance.  Data79    stored in news services are not likely to be critical.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 03:22:20 -0800& From: "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: PDFs for HP C docseC Message-ID: <1108639340.234912.297370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   D Thanks to Warren and others, the PDF versions of the C documentationF just showed up at http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/c/c_index.html.  6 I suppose the C++ equivalent will show up before long.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 03:13:08 -0800 From: Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr 8 Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ?C Message-ID: <1108638788.857671.294500@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   C > OK, I had parsed your original query as a native English speaker.a( > Now I understand what you were asking.  + your' re right! my sentence can be read as:e  C >> I want to know if a network adaptor is set to 100Mb full duplex, 
 (either) withk< >> LANCP after the boot or with a >>> command, and I can not! >> shutdown/reboot the alpha now.-     or  C >> I want to know if a network adaptor is set to 100Mb full duplex,@ >> >> with LANCP after the boot,:	 >>     ori >> with a >>> command, >>/ >> and I can not shutdown/reboot the alpha now.c  ' I will use punctuation in the future :)h   Pierre.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:47:06 GMTi! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>t Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2K 8 Message-ID: <hut611l1j8vrc89lf31e2q2jte6189gk7g@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:16:38 -0800, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  B >Anybody else get the offer?  Now if only I could get it with GEM, >I could use it. > Q >http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/prot/ne/ne_NewsDetail_PRT_IDX/1,1649,1908,00.htmll  N The rx5670 is not supported by OpenVMS. This 4 socket system has been replaced> by the rx4640 which is supported by OpenVMS with up to 8 CPUs.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:36:24 GMTe( From: Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@hp.com> Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2K./ Message-ID: <s51Rd.210$fO7.69@news.cpqcorp.net>a  5 Yes, that is a mistake.  I'll take care of it. - Marke John Vottero wrote:MA > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message p+ > news:uuQQd.188$Xu7.89@news.cpqcorp.net...  >  >>Tom Linden wrote:. >> >>>Anybody else get the offer? >>D >>Sorry, but it appears OpenVMS will not be supported on the rx5670. >  > O > Someone had better tell DSPP because they're sending e-mail to OpenVMS ISV's lE > pushing these machines and letting you order them with an "OpenVMS i > evaluation kit v8.1".  > ( > The web page (requires DSPP logon) is: > R > http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/prot/ne/ne_NewsDetail_PRT_IDX/1,1649,1908,00.html >  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 07:55:07 -0800 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com Subject: Re: rx5670 for $2K-C Message-ID: <1108655707.613885.154270@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>s  F > This was mostly a tactical decision based on timing.  The rx5670 wasF > designed as a 4-socket PA-RISC follow on aimed at the existing HP-UX? > base and came out well before VMS was ready.  The rx4640 is a  4-socketG > system that  was part of the newer family of boxes comming out in the  rightn > timeframe for VMS to jump on.m >aB > Dunno if VMS would boot on it, I'm not sure we've ever seen one.    D Thats good to know, and reasonable; thanks Fred.  Hopefully we won'tA be seeing any new I64 systems that are not VMS capable, and if we @ do that they aren't mysteriously less expensive than similar VMS capable boxes.   Rich   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 09:18:40 -0800$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> Subject: Re: set shadow/log bug'C Message-ID: <1108660720.643816.200320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>i  2 VMS 7.3-2 Alpha.    FIBRE_SCSI 4,  Update 3, Sys 6  G If you need more specifics, feel free to e-mail me (or tell me to log ad call...)   Cheers,i	    .../Ed    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 13:25:43 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)c Subject: Re: set shadow/log bugC- Message-ID: <Jo1ljxJIvkY7@cuebid.zko.dec.com>.  & "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> writes:4 > VMS 7.3-2 Alpha.    FIBRE_SCSI 4,  Update 3, Sys 6 > I > If you need more specifics, feel free to e-mail me (or tell me to log a.
 > call...)   Hi Ed, 	uD Thanks for the info.  We should have enough data to fix the problem.  J However, if you want an updated SETSHOSHADOW.EXE image soon (as opposed toC waiting until it's in a V7.3-2 SHADOWING kit), then please go aheado and log the call.t       -- t  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:59:52 -0500e# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e1 Subject: Re: So how big a parachute did she have? , Message-ID: <s8udnXaTD57UCInfRVn-1Q@igs.net>   Tom Linden wrote:tE > On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:58:19 -0500, Main, Kerry <kerry.main@hp.com>t > wrote: >r >>> -----Original Message-----8 >>> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]# >>> Sent: February 10, 2005 5:44 PMi >>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 5 >>> Subject: Re: So how big a parachute did she have?d >>>a >>> Bob Koehler wrote:? >>>>> Its all part of our plan to make the US the 11th province. >>> of Canada.< >>>>> Course, teaching Texans to speak French might be a tad >>> difficult, but I5 >>>>> am sure they will see the value in this vision.i >>>>>p >>>>+ >>>>    How do you spell nucular in French?  >>>  >>>oE >>> We don't use proprietary USA technology, we use industry standardkH >>> nuclear reactors. The USA is mad at Iran because it got open sourcedD >>> nuclear technology instead of buying the USA proprietary Nucular >>> (tm) systems.7 >>> " >>> And in french, it is Nuclaire >>>  >># >> And in english, it is nuclear ..e >> >> :-) >>
 >> Kerry MainD >> Senior Consultant >> HP Services Canadac >> Voice: 613-592-4660 >> Fax: 613-591-4477 >> kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcoml >> (remove the DOT's and AT) >>' >> "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..b! >> Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."i >t > Speaking of Carly,F > I spoke to a guy today who claimed that she recently interviewed for0 > Eisner's job. She was turned down, I was told.    G Guess she just wanted to cruising in the Caribbean on the company boat.- --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.k   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:45:02 +0000o# From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com>c Subject: Sound on a PWSn3 Message-ID: <1108630123.28097.0@doris.uk.clara.net>   / A few questions regarding using sound on a PWS,0  I (i) Is the on-board sound card enabled and detected by VMS by default or S7 are there console commands to switch it on? If so what?3  F (ii) How would one check from VMS that the sound card was recognised,  SHO DEV ???f  < (iii) Should DECSound work out-the-box? I get the following,B 	DIVA error detected : %DIVA-E-ASSNFAIL, unspecified failure from  diva_assignl@ 	DIVA error detected : %DIVA-E-INVCHAN, invalid channel supplied  G (iv) MMOV seems to be the software which I need - is it only available aH on the CONDIST or is there some other way a hobbyist can get hold of it?  G (v) Any other utilities, tips or tricks regarding getting the sound up h and running.   Many thanks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:45:23 +0100s0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> Subject: Re: Sound on a PWSgB Message-ID: <421483d4$0$13228$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   issinoho wrote: 1 > A few questions regarding using sound on a PWS,  > K > (i) Is the on-board sound card enabled and detected by VMS by default or e9 > are there console commands to switch it on? If so what?  > H > (ii) How would one check from VMS that the sound card was recognised, 
 > SHO DEV ???s > > > (iii) Should DECSound work out-the-box? I get the following,G >     DIVA error detected : %DIVA-E-ASSNFAIL, unspecified failure from R
 > diva_assigntE >     DIVA error detected : %DIVA-E-INVCHAN, invalid channel suppliedv > I > (iv) MMOV seems to be the software which I need - is it only available aJ > on the CONDIST or is there some other way a hobbyist can get hold of it? > I > (v) Any other utilities, tips or tricks regarding getting the sound up s > and running. >  > Many thanks. > F I believe you can download the Multimedia support for the PWS systems  here...u: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/mmov/index.html   Some other useful links are...  , Compaq Multimedia Services for OpenVMS AlphaH http://www.sysworks.com.au/disk$axpdocdec022/progtool/mmserv22/runti.htm   Multimedia - OpenVMS HELPe( http://zinser.no-ip.info/HELP/Multimedia  / Converting a DECserver 200 into a MIDIserver 20c/ http://www.vaxman.de/projects/midi/midi200.htmln  ( The DECWindows Archive - Animation/Video" http://decwarch.free.fr/video.html  ( The DECWindows Archive - Audio and Sound" http://decwarch.free.fr/audio.html  % DECtalk - Fonix Corporation - DECtalk 1 http://www.fonix.com/products/dectalk/manuals.phps6 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/dectalk/6 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/dectalk/H http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/OVMS_RTL_DTK.pdf  ) Phil Ottewell's Free Software for OpenVMSe& http://www.yrl.co.uk/phil/pds/pds.html  # Flash Plugin for Mozilla on OpenVMS.# http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/extra/a   HIFI STEREO for OpenVMSe, http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/audiogb.html  , Jazz Midi Sequencer - The DECWindows ARCHIVE' http://decwarch.free.fr/audio.html#JAZZf   Lame 3_93_1 for VMS # http://decwarch.free.fr/decwindows/n/ http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/decwindows/   4 madplay and MAD - MPEG Audio Decoder - TU Delft HREM7 http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/software2.html#MADl  	 MPEG_PLAYe> http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?MPEG_PLAY3 http://zinser.no-ip.info/www/vms/sw/mpeg_play.htmlxh  3 MPG123 - Plays MP3 files from local files or URLs -n OpenVMS Freeware CD v65 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware60/mpg123/o   MPG123 - Marl Berryman0 http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/submissions/mpg123/  B MPlayer for OpenVMS (a porting project in progress for OpenVMS) -  pre-release SW without support# http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/extra/   9 ROSEGARDEN - Musical Notation Editor and Midi Sequencer -i OpenVMS Freeware CD v49 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/rosegarden/   B SoX - convert various formats of audio files in to other formats -
 TU Delft HREMI7 http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/software2.html#SoX.   Timidity MIDI and MOD Player' http://decwarch.free.fr/audio.html#TIMIn# http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/extra/a  7 tmk Archives - Terence M. Kennedy - DECwindows Softwarer/ http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/decwindows/)  8 VCS Aktiengesselschaft - dira! - digital radio solutions) http://media.vcs.de/products/content/showm  # VRweb - vrml viewer - TU Delft HREMs9 http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/software2.html#VRwebh   XAnim - U of Texas, http://www.utexas.edu/cc/vms/apps/xanim.html http://xanim.polter.net/  1 XFORGE Sound File Editor - The DECWindows Archivet) http://decwarch.free.fr/audio.html#XFORGEo  $ XMCD - Motif CD Player - ibiblio.org http://www.amb.org/xmcd/' http://decwarch.free.fr/audio.html#XMCD   : XMORPH - Morphing under X Windows - The DECWindows Archive) http://decwarch.free.fr/video.html#XMORPHl   Cheers!u   Keith Cayembergd   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 04:13:58 -0800/ From: "issinoho@gmail.com" <issinoho@gmail.com>t Subject: Re: Sound on a PWStB Message-ID: <1108642438.245191.87920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  7 Wow. Now that's what I call comprehensive. Many thanks.s  D As regards whether or not the board is being recognised by VMS - areH there any commands I can issue? What device does VMS use to refer to it?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:59:34 +0100u0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> Subject: Re: Sound on a PWS2B Message-ID: <42149536$0$24932$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   issinoho@gmail.com wrote:e  9 > Wow. Now that's what I call comprehensive. Many thanks.0 > F > As regards whether or not the board is being recognised by VMS - areJ > there any commands I can issue? What device does VMS use to refer to it? > H Before you install the Multimedia Services for OpenVMS, I don't believe G OpenVMS will recognize the existence of the Sound Card (which I assume s> is installed in your PWS). Then you can assign ports with the ? audioselectports utility. See the following page in the Compaq O@ Multimedia Services for OpenVMS Alpha Run-Time Environment Guide_ http://www.sysworks.com.au/disk$axpdocdec022/progtool/mmserv22/runti001.htm#audioselectports_chl   *Important*r: The following is taken from the MMOV Release Notes here...G http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/mmov/mmov_release_notes.htmle  F The main focus of this release is audio support for currently shipping OpenVMS workstation platforms.  & Support is provided for these options:  C Compaq Creative Labs AudioPCI Card (also referred to as the Compaq y@ Ensoniq AudioPCI Card) on the AlphaStation XP900 (DS10) and the  AlphaStation XP1000.  F AlphaStation Sound Card (also known as the Microsoft Sound Board, and C referred to as the MSB device) on the DIGITAL Personal Workstation  6 600au, and on previously shipped AlphaStation systems.    < Unofficial Support for the Personal Workstation Audio Device< ------------------------------------------------------------F The file MMOV$ESSDRIVER.EXE has been placed in the Runtime Kit.  This H kernel driver has not been qualified and is not officially supported at @ this time.  This driver will not be loaded and "enabled" by the = operating system unless the following entry is placed in the t, sys$common:[sysexe]sys$user_config.dat file:  +               device  = "ES1888 Sound Card"s               name    = AU&               driver  = MMOV$ESSDRIVER               adapter = XBUS               id      = ES1888               end_device  H The mmov$essdriver provides "msb emulation" mode operation.  This means H that Compaq Multimedia Services applications operate as if the Personal 8 Workstation built-in device were a Microsoft Sound Card.  H Note that Compaq Multimedia Services will not work properly if both the 2 mmov$msbdriver and the mmov$essdriver are enabled.   Cheers!m   K.C.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 07:59:28 -0800/ From: "issinoho@gmail.com" <issinoho@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: Sound on a PWS C Message-ID: <1108655968.423867.256890@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Thanks, Keith.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:13:06 +0000 (UTC)o< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: Re: Sound on a PWS ) Message-ID: <cv2fqi$erj$1@news.BelWue.DE>o  t In article <1108642438.245191.87920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "issinoho@gmail.com" <issinoho@gmail.com> writes:8 >Wow. Now that's what I call comprehensive. Many thanks. >dE >As regards whether or not the board is being recognised by VMS - arepI >there any commands I can issue? What device does VMS use to refer to it?I  N Once you have MMOV installed you should get a device called AUA0: or the like.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanne   -- sE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452n  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de3  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanyp9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmlO   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 07:56:09 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)GM Subject: Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !)e3 Message-ID: <byAA$5tvrR25@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  j In article <1108585597.909550.251500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > C > The strong and weak nuclear forces have an extremely short range, I > especially the weak force. The range for the strong nuclear force is oncF > the order of about 10**-13 cm and that of the weak force is so small4 > that it is well approximated by a "contact force".  H    The experiment showing the effect of the weak force propgating fasterD    than the speed of light was done over a distance of centimeters. G    (Yes, I'd really like to have read the paper and understood how they     pulled it off).  G    And if I understand the forces, the limits of 10**-13 are a praticaltF    rules of thumb, but IRRC they actually fall off asymptotically likeF    other forces, making them non-zero (just incredibly tiny) at great 
    distances.s  H > I have recently been reading QED by Feynman and according to this bookF > it appears that the speed of a photon does vary from c but only over > very, very short distances.F  F    I read QED over a decade ago.  Basically I think he said as long asB    Heisenberg allows it, you can, and maybe have to, get away with
    anything.    E > So this faster than light propagation of the nuclear forces must besI > kept in context, namely, that it applies only over extremely, extremelybB > small distances AND in the realm in which the effects of quantumE > mechanics are paramount, where position and momentum (which is massiE > times velocity for speeds much smaller than c) are sort of "fuzzy".s  E    If in context basically means "within the nucleus" type distances,nB    fine, but I know a lot of physicists who won't let anyone argue;    against a correspondence principle:  the same laws apply 6    macroscopically even though the effect may be nill.  G    None of which change the practicle problem that spacecraft depend onE)    electromagnetism and constrained by c.a   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 08:26:40 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>M Subject: Re: Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design flaw !)yB Message-ID: <1108657600.665731.53090@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:E > In article <1108585597.909550.251500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,.& "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > >pE > > The strong and weak nuclear forces have an extremely short range,wE > > especially the weak force. The range for the strong nuclear forceE is onLB > > the order of about 10**-13 cm and that of the weak force is so smallc6 > > that it is well approximated by a "contact force". > C >    The experiment showing the effect of the weak force propgating0 fasterE >    than the speed of light was done over a distance of centimeters.sD >    (Yes, I'd really like to have read the paper and understood how they >    pulled it off).  E Fascinating. I am skeptical, though. We've heard of faster-than-light B travel before, but in the cosmos. It turned out in the end to be aG flawed analysis -- an optical illusion. Can you provide a reference fors this new result?   >e@ >    And if I understand the forces, the limits of 10**-13 are a praticalC >    rules of thumb, but IRRC they actually fall off asymptoticallyq likeG >    other forces, making them non-zero (just incredibly tiny) at greatr   >    distances.l  F If you assume the Yukawa form for the potential, yes. But there's moreE to it than that. It's been too long since I've worked with stuff likee this so I can't elaborate.  E > > I have recently been reading QED by Feynman and according to thisd bookC > > it appears that the speed of a photon does vary from c but onlyc over > > very, very short distances.a >nE >    I read QED over a decade ago.  Basically I think he said as longp asD >    Heisenberg allows it, you can, and maybe have to, get away with >    anything.  D Just as an aside, if you go to http://www.feynman.com, you can watchD several hours worth of video of Feynman giving the QED lectures on aE trial basis in New Zealand! You need real player to view it. I highlya
 recommend it.e   > G > > So this faster than light propagation of the nuclear forces must bedA > > kept in context, namely, that it applies only over extremely,h	 extremelytD > > small distances AND in the realm in which the effects of quantumG > > mechanics are paramount, where position and momentum (which is massrG > > times velocity for speeds much smaller than c) are sort of "fuzzy".  >eG >    If in context basically means "within the nucleus" type distances,1D >    fine, but I know a lot of physicists who won't let anyone argue= >    against a correspondence principle:  the same laws applyr8 >    macroscopically even though the effect may be nill.  F Yes, but down at the tiny distances at which the strong force operatesD you have the "fuzziness" of postion vs. momentum, so it's definitelyG not like we can follow particles around as if they were billiard balls.xB You can't plot the path of an atomic electron, for example. So theE conecpt of distance is not quite the same as it is at the macroscopicuE level. Therefore I don't think it really means you can literally just2B take this faster-than-c result and transpose it to the macroscopicG world. Nature doesn't scale. We can't fly even with wings because we'revD "too big". Cells can only grow so big before the increase in surface? area through which food and waste travel can't keep up with ther@ increase in volume which needs the food and generates the waste.A Examples abound. So what I am trying to say is that even with theuE correspondence principle, because nature is not scalable, things thateB operate at the scale of 10**-13 cm don't at macroscopic distances.  = Additionally, the Feynman analysis gives different probablitysD amplitudes for different speeds for light, the largest one being forA speed c. On the macroscopic scale, the amplitude for c completelydG overwhelms all others. I think it is like waiting for heat to travel on:? its own from a cold object to a hot object. Not impossible, but D fantastically unlikely to the point of being effectively impossible.  F >    None of which change the practicle problem that spacecraft depend on+ >    electromagnetism and constrained by c.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:20:03 +0100i& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch> Subject: Re: Status of devices, Message-ID: <37j2dkF5cs773U1@individual.net>   bhushann@gmail.com wrote:1  ( > Thank you for your prompt reply Mezei.I > What I am looking for is, how to obtain all the other states the devicee/ > could be in other than mount and not mounted.n >   ! $ help lexical f$getdvi arguments-  5 and look at the item list. Most are self explanatory.n   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 05:19:26 -0800* From: "MDPlatts" <martin.platts@cdl.co.uk>A Subject: Re: Thoughts about VMS ECOs now in .PCSI$COMPRESSED formdC Message-ID: <1108646366.644078.280540@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>c  E I don't like the new format/concept either - it was common to get badMD downloads or they just put up a bad kit which then of course did not expand and you got errors.  G The only reason for not doing it before seemed to be the FTP server did>C not handle long file names ok - so why as well as changing the file 8 name change the format. Just do the former - but DCX theD .PCSI$COMPRESSED file so we get the original dates and also know the file is ok.r  ; Now we may only find out its bad when we try to install it.l  D Anyone know a way beyond doing "prod extract file" to test the kits?   M.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 08:09:01 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: VMS and Comcast cable modem3 Message-ID: <gVtlDPJB9SlS@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  h In article <42139dcb@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>, "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> writes:  J > For the past six weeks, this connection has been uninterrupted (the lastJ > time it was done was when I had to shut the machine down to replace someK > faulty memory cards): until four days ago, when my sessions into the works > machines froze.m  E    I've had SSH implementations just up and croak every now and then.eD    I thought it was a bug in PuTTY, but it may be more common.  I'veC    seen it between machines at home conected by a swithing hub, andiA    machines at different work sites connected via different ISPs.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:09:27 -0500h# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>w Subject: [OT:] Biometrics , Message-ID: <HtSdndUSpdkVConfRVn-uQ@igs.net>  L http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050217/MCLE! AN17/TPBusiness/?query=dan+mclean7  0 Flawed biometrics offers false sense of security
 By DAN McLEANe   Thursday, February 17, 2005c Updated at 8:00 AM EST  I From Britain comes disturbing news that the country's politicians seek tohH introduce wide-scale "biometric" identity registration for its citizens.  H On Feb. 11 that nation's House of Commons passed in a 224-to-64 vote theH Identity Cards Bill, which calls for the use of biometric identificationJ cards and passports. The bill still has to clear the House of Lords, whereD critics say it will likely face stiff opposition, but if passed it'sK expected that biometric identification will go into effect by 2010 and that K the documents will become compulsory for all British citizens by 2012. Thatc; could set a disturbing precedent for the rest of the world.o  I Biometrics, for those who don't know, involves the use of an individual'snH physical characteristics -- fingerprints, for example -- as identifiers.I These characteristics are scanned, converted to computer code and, in thefL case of biometric ID cards, embedded in built-in microchips as an ID number.L A card can then be matched to its rightful owner through a quick scan of the relevant body part.   H Britain's Identity Cards Bill, if passed by all government levels, wouldE mandate ID cards that include a citizen's name, address and biometric K information such as fingerprints, facial scans and iris scans, according to H a recent report by IDG's News Service in London. The collected data fromH millions of citizens would be deposited in a massive database called theD National Identification Register under a plan expected to cost up to 5.5-billion ($12.8-billion).o  L But it's debatable why Britain sees fit to so closely track its citizens andL whether folks there would even consider potentially giving up a good measure0 of their civil liberties in order to feel safer.  J No doubt Eric Arthur Blair is rolling in his grave. Blair, better known asK George Orwell, in his most famous novel Nineteen Eighty-Four railed against J the brutal and intrusively bureaucratized governance of Big Brother in theL ever-watchful fictional dystopia of Oceania. Does the ID Cards Bill have theH potential to make truth both stranger and more frightening than fiction?  H Aside from the disturbing potential consequences to personal freedom andD privacy, the technology of biometrics, so key to the British citizenK registry plan, may be more flawed than is realized by those engaged in thisgK narrow pursuit of public safety. It's no accident that among the wide rangehF of security technologies available, biometrics remains among the leastG adopted by businesses. Beyond the fact that biometric-based security iseG extremely costly, there are fundamental flaws in the reliability of theeD technology itself. That fact alone is why many banks and credit card5 companies don't use biometric identification systems.d  K In an interview reported earlier this month, for example, Johan Gerber, thetD associate vice-president of MasterCard International's risk productsJ division, said that the "false positive" identification rate of biometricsL is too high and the technology is simply not accurate enough. "We don't feelA that it's ready to roll out just yet," he was reported as saying.t  G One Canadian security expert is equally skeptical. "It's pretty easy tooK duplicate fingerprint scans," said Kelly Kanellakis, a technologist who has"F worked within the security practice of a North American communications equipment manufacturer.   H Fingerprints can be imprinted and "lifted" from something as simple as aG soda can or duplicated with gel compounds, he explained. Iris scans areiI "static" or unchangeable biometric markers, which if duplicated by othersiF become useless -- you can change a password, but you can't change your( irises if someone copies a scan of them.  C Likewise, security experts say a facial scan might be lifted from aeJ photograph. And what happens as we age or when facial swelling, surgery orH some other altering effect occurs? Would beards be forbidden? Perish theE thought, too, that a criminal might steal a person's biometrics-based-H identity card and likewise feel compelled to make off with the requisite( body part needed to make the thing work.  I And then there's the fact that a biometric scan of a fingerprint, iris ordH face ultimately becomes digitized data, which although much more complexK than more typical passwords and user names, is a data file nonetheless. AndmK data can be gathered and/or decoded. Security experts suggest that ID cards J with biometric information stored on them -- the so-called "smart card" --K are, from a knowledgeable criminal's standpoint, relatively simple to beat.eL A clever thief steals the card, strips off the biometric coding and replaces it with his own.  I Those in the know say the only truly secure biometric system is one where8J identifiers are kept, not on millions of cards, but in a central location.  J That raises yet another problem, though. Anyone with access to the centralK data repository where these digitized biometric scans are kept has the keyscL to a massive kingdom of potentially fraudulent riches. And these centralizedI repositories would become the primary targets of every cybercriminal typemI imaginable. A basic security rule-of-thumb contends that, if given enoughvH time and enough resources, the bad guys will find a way in, so a centralL repository would exist as a fortress under continual and relentless siege by4 an ever-increasing world of marauding hacker hordes.  J Consider, also, how often in recent years there have there been reports ofC highly confidential data from banks and governments being stolen oreL mysteriously going missing. It's not an unusual occurrence by any means, and$ suggests there may be no safe haven.  E Regardless, the British government is spurred on by a perception of a)L dangerous and untrusting world, and forges ahead believing its measures willH diminish fraud and protect the public. Proponents of the British plan toK biometrically register the populace will argue that a safer society resultsiB from the use of such state-of-the-art identification and tracking.  D That it is a flawed social plan underpinned by questionable security" technology is closer to the truth.  
 =============   K Doesn't security begin with sane policies based on rational thinking? SincenH the overriding root cause for today's 'security conciousness' stems fromD failed foreign policies, shouldn't that be the place to begin before' everyone's civil liberities are eroded?c  H As technologists used to dealing with a mostly sane operating system (asG opposed to unix or Windows), the inherent inconsistencies in the flawedeH security approaches that we will undoubtedly be caled on to implement is? infuriating - however financially rewarding it may be to do so.r   --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.t   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 07:27:52 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.orgJ Subject: Re: [OT] Speed of light as speed limit (was Re: DECW$CLOCK design3 Message-ID: <CoSTxD+e606r@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <1117ohnh402gd35@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:J > I know of no research done from the perspective of the particle, mainly B > because we do not have the capability of being on a particle at - > lightspeed relative to an outside observer.   B Despite the way it is presented in school, relativity is not about( observers.  It's about reference frames.  C There is no difficulty in adopting a reference frame in which it isoE the particle accelerator that's whipping by at .999c and the particlef which is stationary.  B We have measuring instruments that work at .999c.  Muons generated@ by cosmic rays, for instance.  Their lifetime is a "clock".  And@ the observation of muons induced by cosmic rays is evidence that% strongly supports special relativity.-   > The real question, which at J > this time we cannot answer, is what's possible relative to the particle ? > that's at or near lightspeed relative to an outside observer.@  A The posited answer is that the laws of physics are invariant withF. respect to choice of inertial reference frame.  < The experimental evidence is consistent with this being true< and inconsistent with any alternate theory proposed to date.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:14:21 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>b# Subject: [OT]: Linux security pitch6, Message-ID: <5Ladnf90BeMzBYnfRVn-qg@igs.net>  1 Got this in an Information Week newsletter today:a     The Linux Value Propositionn  9 This week's LinuxWorld conference has brought with it the = obligatory storm of new announcements from the most prominenteA providers of the Linux operating system: Novell and Red Hat. Bothr3 companies are making a serious play to grab desktopt7 operating-system market share from Microsoft. Both havekA identified security as a major concern among their customers. And A both have become chummy with the tech industry's biggest players.u= If open source is all about mitigating vendor influence on ITu; innovation, what's the difference between Red Hat Linux ande> Novell's SuSE Linux (security certification of EAL4+)? Plenty,1 when you consider their approaches to the market.t  > Novell's approach to the Linux market is to leverage nearly 25A years of software-development experience and brand recognition to ? assure IT executives that they're not entrusting their preciouse> data-center resources to just any company. Red Hat, meanwhile,A emerged just as the dot-com bubble was building in the late 1990sVA and charged ahead while other tech startups foundered. Although as> lot of focus in the Linux market has been providing users with> all the capabilities they'd become accustomed to over the pastA few decades with Unix, Red Hat insists that it's looking to outdohA that predecessor technology on several levels. Red Hat Enterprisef> Linux 4, for example, includes SE Linux security features that8 provide a level of security previously available only inA specialized "trusted" versions of Unix. The latest version of Red8< Hat is a move to marry high-level security features with the7 basic operating system. Such features include mandatory = access-control capabilities to lock down user permissions and  improved buffer management.t  > In the end, customers will decide which model prevails. Novell9 would do well to match the level of Red Hat's independentn< software vendor support. Still, the purity of an open-source? system is not as much of a motivation for business customers as1 Red Hat might think.  > What do you think? What are your company's key decision pointsA when it comes to Linux and open source? Let me know. You can also ( read a more complete analysis at my blog+ http://blog.informationweek.com/002264.htmls    L Maybe HP should have a booth a LinuxWorld pitching "VMS - More secure than a barrel of Linux'es".   --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.l   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 05:44:06 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.comf' Subject: Re: [OT]: Linux security pitcheC Message-ID: <1108647846.897889.240390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>n  " so much for the security pitch ...  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21295    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 08:27:21 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r7 Subject: [OT]: Substitute VMS for Linux in this article , Message-ID: <O_SdnT0HlqUnBonfRVn-ug@igs.net>  @ It would be nice to think that VMS could get to even this point.  8 Langa Letter: Follow-Up To Linux's Achilles' Heel Column  G Fred Langa addresses the most-voiced criticisms of his recent review ofIL Linux problems, including claims that sound isn't that important in businessL computing. He also posits that high-priced commercial Linux vendors are on aH suicidal course, unless they lower prices to accentuate their advantages
 over Windows.o     By Fred Langa,  InformationWeekC May 17, 2004 URL:I http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=20300852M      J The flames have mostly died out and the smoke is clearing: The response to< the original Linux's Achilles' Heel article was astonishing.  J Many readers offered posts that were helpful, thoughtful, and informative.H My sincere thanks to all who wrote in that vein! Other posts were, well,L somewhat less helpful, and revealed deep misunderstandings about my originalL article. If the fault were mine--if my words were unclear--then I apologize.J But I suspect that, at least in part, there may have been a problem on theJ receiving end of the information exchange, at least among some of the more fanatical Linux supporters.h  H For today's article, I've read through all the myriad original posts andK extracted what I think are the main areas of controversy, the ones that arec% ripest for clarification and comment.e  H Let's start with an excellent, thoughtful and pro-Linux post from reader< Rick Spencer on the general issue of Linux hardware support:    D   Fred: Linux will never be directly equivalent to Windows, for manyK reasons. There is no "Linux Corp." like Microsoft to centralize information.C and resources; the development process is completely different; the G philosophy is completely different. This creates a completely differentt computing environment.  L   As an analogy, say you worked for Coca-Cola since Windows 95 came out, sayL as a bookkeeper. Your job has evolved since then, but you worked in the sameE building, on the same campus, in the same office, doing the same job.y  F   Now, nine years later, you take a job as a bookkeeper at Pepsi-Cola,I across town, the same tasks and duties, but your environment has changed.eD You drive a different route to work, park in a different lot, walk aK different route to a different building, use a different security procedureAC to get inside, go to a different floor, different office, differenth computer, printer, photocopier.t  G   Many of the things you took for granted at Coke are not even there atcJ Pepsi. Pepsi has things that Coke didn't. You cannot expect them to be the same.s  D   Linux and Windows compare very much the same as this analogy. SomeJ hardware isn't supported in Linux. On the other hand, it is trivially easyJ to select hardware that is supported, and build a modern, high-performanceF PC that' is completely Linux compatible, but because it is a differentJ environment, you have to make your choices differently. Some manufacturers> do not care and make no effort to achieve Linux compatibility.  L   In another example, Windows XP allowed my scanner to work "out of the box"J but required downloaded drivers and software to use the advanced features.C The advanced features worked with Sane and Xsane with several Linuxo> distributions "out of the box"--not that this proves anything.  J   In the end, if one makes the choice to use Linux rather than Windows (asL many have) they must realize that they have moved to a new environment whereF the rules of engagement are slightly different. Hardware compatibilityA cannot be assumed, as it can be with Windows. For many, this is a J show-stopper. That's fine. Make an informed choice, and stay with Windows.  F   But if Linux doesn't work with your hardware, it isn't because LinuxK doesn't measure up, it's because Linux is different, and expecting Linux to81 be the same as Windows is completely unrealistic.    -- Rick Spencer I This may surprise you, but I completely agree with Rick's main point that H "...Linux is different, and expecting Linux to be the same as Windows isJ completely unrealistic." Unfortunately, many Linux vendors are now settingL up that very expectation in their marketing, packaging, and pricing. I think1 this is a horrible mistake, practically suicidal.   B Remember, my original article was prompted by an experiment with aG commercial Linux distribution that costs about as much as Windows. BothaH Linux and Windows were supposed to work with the test hardware, but onlyD Windows actually did work. And despite the best efforts of the LinuxH vendor's tech support, nothing could get the installation fully working.K (The exact problem was a failure with the sound system. You can revisit alle the gory details.)  F When Linux is free, or nearly so, there's no reason to complain if itsH hardware support isn't quite up to Windows' level, or if there are otherJ rough edges: You're getting a great price on a very good operating system,9 and the low cost more than makes up for any shortcomings.d  H But when a distro of Linux costs about as much as Windows, it's entirelyH reasonable to hold it to the same standard, and expect the same level ofJ hardware support. Trouble is, that support just isn't there yet for Linux.  F And that's my issue with many of the commercial Linuxes. It's not thatL "Linux is bad" or any such silliness. But by setting Microsoft-level prices,J some commercial Linux vendors have set up a comparison they cannot win, atL least not yet, because Linux cannot yet match Microsoft's levels of hardwareJ support. Any Linux vendor that tries to charge Microsoft-level prices will5 inevitably be perceived as offering a lesser product.l  H To me, the answer is obvious: The commercial Linuxes should reduce theirC prices. That will instantly reduce the expectations of the end-usersG community and avoid the direct comparison to Windows' level of support.CJ Linux will again be a bargain, and issues like incomplete hardware support? and other rough edges will matter much less. Name That HardwarewG While the above letter was general, many of the other posts were highly J specific. The largest thread of posts, stretching across several weeks andL under several headings, dealt with the fact that I hadn't detailed the exact" specs of the hardware that failed.  K Many readers thought I was trying to hide something; or was secretly trying L to stack the deck against Linux; or that I had some other evil motivation inI not detailing the hardware. For example, check these four separate posts:     F   "So a so-called journalist claims he can't get sound working on someH anonymous system ... he refuses to specify the hardware used. What is heK afraid of? Is he afraid that somebody might fix that problem? Or maybe thisoF anonymous soundcard/chip doesn't exist? Why must that hardware be kept anonymous?"   H   "The only reason he wouldn't reveal his hardware is he knows that it'sL Windows-only junk. He knows perfectly well why Linux won't work with it, butI he makes us jump through all his silly hoops and never gives us the punche line at the end."n  I   "Can you name that mysterious sound card and chipset, Fred? Somehow youn% keep on failing to do that .... Why?"l  G   "Have you so completely given up on your career that you just make up H stories? Unless you produce the hardware specs we should just assume youJ never actually did the test and just made up your article based on opinion
 and hearsay."eJ (I've omitted the names of the writers, above, because I have no desire toH embarrass anyone. All the posts are on the InformationWeek.com ListeningH Post, and you can read them there in their original context, if you wish to.)  I The omission was simple: I had seen no need to burn space in the originalXJ article with a list of the hardware specs because the vendor I was dealingL with specifically said the system should work with their distribution (I hadK provided the support techs with a complete hardware rundown); and the sound2F chipset in question is listed on the Advanced Linux Sound ArchitectureI (ALSA) site as supported. Thus, I thought that detailing the hardware wasVL moot. The salient point was that it was supposed to work with Linux, and did8 not. It also was supposed to work with Windows, and did.  J But, as the above four notes show (and there were many, many others), someF readers from the Linux community are deeply suspicious of criticism ofJ Linux. To them, the salient point wasn't that a supposedly supported soundI chipset failed in Linux; but that I was "hiding" something. So, to try tooI get the discussion back on track, I posted the relevant hardware specs int the discussion area.  K There were a few more posts in the "Fred is lying/hiding" vein, but most ofoI those died out when the participants in the discussion saw that the sound I system indeed should have worked. But then the discussion shifted, as the $ next item shows: The PEBKAC SyndromeJ Alas, my posting the hardware specs didn't help. Instead of clarifying theG discussion and getting things back on track, things took a further stepm= downward, moving from "Fred is a liar" to "Fred is an idiot."o  I User error is indeed a common problem in all kinds of computing. In fact,oK support techs sometimes joke about "PEBKAC" errors ("Problem Exists Betweenl3 Keyboard And Chair") or "ID 10 T" errors ("idiot.")   L In that vein, some participants in the discussion thought that simple idiocyL might be at the root of my trouble with Linux. For example, maybe I couldn't0 hear the sound because I had the volume too low:    J   "I know what Fred's problem is. He didn't unmute the sound. When ALSA isF first installed, it's muted. You HAVE to unmute the sound on any LinuxH distro that uses ALSA. All this over nothing. Fred, do your homework andJ stop being an MS lackey. Don't know how to unmute sound? Let me teach you:I Open up "alsamixer". Yes, it's commandline. Press 'M' to unmute the sound K and press '+' to raise the volume. Now, as root, type 'alsactl store'. YouraH sound settings are now saved. It's obvious you have a bias against Linux" even though you say you don't...."K The advice above is fine, except that when a sound system isn't detected insE Linux (or Windows), there's no mixer installed, so there are no audio I controls to adjust or unmute. Running the mixer controls on an undetected G sound system either fails, or (if in graphical mode) brings up a mostlyeH empty dialog box. This isn't user bias or idiocy or a PEBKAC error, it'sK that there's no sound system installed to adjust in the first place. So no,a; the problem wasn't that I hadn't unmuted the sound. (Sigh.)    Real Men Don't Need Sound?G Other posts staked out positions I can only marvel at. For example, one$< suggested that sound really isn't all that important anyway:    I   "If you want to play games and your MP3's, then boot to Windows. If you<@ want stability, speed, or mission-critical use, use Linux/Unix."K I don't know what that user does on his system, but I do heavy multitasking-L in my business work, and depend on audible alerts, system beeps, "task done"H beeps, and the like to help me manage background tasks. A system withoutJ sound is harder for me to use because I either have to switch away from myJ foreground tasks to check on background tasks; or set the background tasksE to steal focus and intrusively pop into the foreground when they needeK attention. It's much smoother and less interruptive to use a simple audiblebF alert for those background tasks; and for that, I need a working sound system.t  H No, it's not that a soundless system is unusable; you can still get workK done on a silent system. For that matter, color isn't essential for using atL PC, either. Heck, a graphical interface isn't essential either--we could allK go back to 80x25 monochrome character mode, if we wanted to. But why shouldrH we? Used properly, color, sound, and graphics help you organize and keepC track of a wider array of information and concurrent tasks than you6A otherwise could, and smooth the management of complex operations.u  G Arguing that sound is unimportant is a little like the old joke about aeH general store whose slogan was 'If we don't have it, you don't need it."K Except now it's "If Linux doesn't provide a function, you really don't need. that function."   8 To which I can only say: Baloney. Write Your Own DriversL Another post suggested that I should just write my own driver to support theJ sound system in question. I admit that stopped me cold, not because it wasJ such a good suggestion but because it was so spectacularly primitive: I'veI been involved with personal computers from the start, and the last time I J had to write a driver was in about 1981, when I was a principal in a smallL software company. Back then, there were few true standards in computing, andH it wasn't that unusual for even closely related hardware and software toJ have cross-compatibility issues. Often, you needed to hack little softwareK shims, patches, or from-the-ground-up drivers to get things working. And it . was OK then, because there was no alternative.  L But that was more than 20 years ago. I was astonished to see "write your ownD driver" suggested now as a serious solution to getting a high-pricedL commercial Linux package running on mainstream hardware. (Remember: This wasG never about the free and hobbyist distributions.) Today, if you want to G write a driver as your profession or as a hobby, that's fine; but for aoH full-fare commercial operating system to require that approach--that youJ turn the clock back 20-something years--is nuts. No mainstream, full-priceI commercial operating system should arrive in finish-it-yourself kit form.s   A Blubbering WreckL As time went on, the discussion sunk to a pretty low level, though I have to4 admit some of the imagery and language was colorful:    H   "You were never interested in getting the sound to work, you were onlyK interested in making a sensational headline, even if that meant skewing the K results. Which would make you worse than tabloid journalists and completely 9 compromises your integrity as a so-called IT journalist."-  L   "Go ahead, Mr. Langa, do your best to knock Linux; you will only ever findI yourself a blubbering wreck on the Internet floor. You will only serve tosF help the open-source movement and rip another wad of cash out of Uncle Bill's pocket."oJ Of course, my intent wasn't to "knock" Linux, any more than it's my intent8 to "knock" Windows when I write about its many problems.  J So let me state this as clearly as I can: Competition is good, and we needG more options than just Microsoft with a smattering of Macs on the side.   K Commercial Linux distributions are increasingly positioning themselves as ahJ viable alternative to Windows on mainstream business desktop systems. ThisI shows up in the Linux vendors' marketing language, in their packaging, on B their Web sites, and in their pricing. That's mostly a good thing.  E But when Linux vendors charge Microsoft-level prices, they're settingtI themselves up for a comparison they cannot yet win. High prices for Linuxi" play right into Microsoft's hands.  K Case in point is that article we've been discussing: Despite having a soundaI system that claimed to be supported by various Linux distros; and despitesI being told by support techs that my specific system would work with their,F Linux; I couldn't get the sound to work even after days of effort, andJ following every single suggestion the support techs offered. I thus cannotL use Linux on my primary PC for mainstream business activities, which require> sound. It's not bias, or idiocy, or lying: It's what happened.  G But Windows, including very old versions, works on the identical system  without the slightest hitch.  K And I believe this again shows why, in microcosm, high-priced Linux distrosvJ are on a suicidal course: High costs raise expectations, and Windows-levelF pricing generates the reasonable expectation of Windows-type levels ofE hardware support. But as of now, Linux comes up short in that regard.i  K On the other hand, if commercial Linux vendors reduced their prices, they'dvJ be defining their own playing field--- one where Microsoft is handicapped.L Linux would be much better served in the long term by going back to offeringI inexpensive, robust solutions. That's a game the Linux community can win.t   Someday It Will HappenA I truly wanted to use Linux on my best, fastest, newest PC. But IeL cannot--yet. It's not for any lack of diligence on my part, but because of a limitation in Linux.  K I'll keep trying. Eventually, someone will release something that will workuH on my system. More generally, someday, Linux will probably catch up with2 Microsoft's broad support for mainstream hardware.    But that day surely isn't today.     --  - OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2005 05:39:51 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.comt; Subject: Re: [OT]: Substitute VMS for Linux in this article C Message-ID: <1108647591.142662.168280@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>i  " so much for the security pitch ...  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21295e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 10:21:42 -0500i# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e( Subject: [OT]: Windows XP64 Pro RC2 beta, Message-ID: <9NCdnWhTssEaK4nfRVn-vg@igs.net>  G Microsoft has released their near-gold 64-bit XP for x86-64 chips, with'- production release expected for Q2 this year..  J I guess this is what HP has been waiting for.... a perceived "good enough"6 64-bit Windows to take away all reason to promote VMS.  H Why switch to reliable 64-bit VMS when you can have all the apps you are< familiar with on 64-bit Windows - good, bad, or indifferent.     --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.a   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2005 15:34:18 GMT/ From: Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch>f, Subject: Re: [OT]: Windows XP64 Pro RC2 beta/ Message-ID: <slrnd19ebq.u9.thierry@MARS.Family>   1 On 2005-02-17, John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:lI > Microsoft has released their near-gold 64-bit XP for x86-64 chips, withl/ > production release expected for Q2 this year.  > L > I guess this is what HP has been waiting for.... a perceived "good enough"8 > 64-bit Windows to take away all reason to promote VMS. >hJ > Why switch to reliable 64-bit VMS when you can have all the apps you are> > familiar with on 64-bit Windows - good, bad, or indifferent.  K Ah, yes, especially that now, with the new security-enhanced IE coming out, - Windows will have no issues at all anymore...    *sighs*a   Thierrye   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:54:35 -0600 * From: Michael Clark <MClark@Nemschoff.com>, Subject: RE: [OT]: Windows XP64 Pro RC2 betaQ Message-ID: <A2A28DB6D52E084783ACD6E6C6F5D7900274FA3B@EMAILSERVER2.nemschoff.com>    > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Thierry Dussuet [mailto:thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch]+ > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 9:34 AM> > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: Re: [OT]: Windows XP64 Pro RC2 beta >  > 3 > On 2005-02-17, John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote: @ > > Microsoft has released their near-gold 64-bit XP for x86-64 
 > chips, withd1 > > production release expected for Q2 this year.e > >n7 > > I guess this is what HP has been waiting for.... a   > perceived "good enough"e: > > 64-bit Windows to take away all reason to promote VMS. > >e@ > > Why switch to reliable 64-bit VMS when you can have all the  > apps you are@ > > familiar with on 64-bit Windows - good, bad, or indifferent. > ? > Ah, yes, especially that now, with the new security-enhanced   > IE coming out,/ > Windows will have no issues at all anymore...t  5 Windows without issues??  What planet do you live on.      > 	 > *sighs*  > 	 > Thierry  >     A CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This electronic transmission, including allVL attachments, is directed in confidence solely to the person(s) to whom it isL addressed, or an authorized recipient, and may not otherwise be distributed,L copied or disclosed. The contents of the transmission may also be subject toJ intellectual property rights and all such rights are expressly claimed andG are not waived. If you have received this transmission in error, please H notify the sender immediately by return electronic transmission and thenH immediately delete this transmission, including all attachments, without* copying, distributing or disclosing same.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 10:54:30 -0500n# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e, Subject: Re: [OT]: Windows XP64 Pro RC2 beta, Message-ID: <YMCdnZ9566uqI4nfRVn-sg@igs.net>   Thierry Dussuet wrote:3 > On 2005-02-17, John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:cE >> Microsoft has released their near-gold 64-bit XP for x86-64 chips,a5 >> with production release expected for Q2 this year.E >>E >> I guess this is what HP has been waiting for.... a perceived "goodeA >> enough" 64-bit Windows to take away all reason to promote VMS.e >>G >> Why switch to reliable 64-bit VMS when you can have all the apps youiC >> are familiar with on 64-bit Windows - good, bad, or indifferent.i >fA > Ah, yes, especially that now, with the new security-enhanced IEd; > coming out, Windows will have no issues at all anymore...r >e	 > *sighs*m    I agree *sighs*. K HP won't publically talk about VMS because it's the Killer Steath OperatingrH System (tm) a.k.a. 'KSOS' - which is apparently only available to the USI military establishment and 660 of its closest well-heeled friends (if you  know the secret handshake).o   --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.096 ************************