1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 20 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 101       Contents:A Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. A Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. # Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down # Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down # Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down # Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down 1 Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... ! Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP ! Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP  Re: Need performance help  Re: Need performance help  RE: Need performance help  OpenVms decNet Routing!  Re: OpenVms decNet Routing! " Re: OpenVMS Small Partner Strategy" Re: OpenVMS Small Partner Strategy" Re: OpenVMS Small Partner Strategy" Re: OpenVMS Small Partner Strategy( Re: OT: FS AlphaServer 800 5/333 EU-area% OT: On Dell, wintel innovation and HP & Re: Port Print facility Update for I643 substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2   Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution  Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution  Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:32:50 -0800 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>J Subject: Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal.% Message-ID: <1108845084.504809@smirk>   " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:  I > It is my pleasure to announce the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical E > Journal. First, I would like to apologize for the delay; however we D > were otherwise occupied in getting OpenVMS Version 8.2 out. Please > visit the Web site at:8 > "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/index.html"  > ...? > I hope you enjoy this issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal.   E Thank you, I enjoyed it very much.   I especially liked John Reagan's ? article on porting the Macro-32 compiler.   "Inside looks" like ; this give me a better appreciation for the porting process. D Colin Butcher's article on DECnet-Plus had a bad joke hidden in it, 9 presumably to see if anyone actually read that far.   :-)   > Unfortunately, I had two problems.   I like to print things so? that I can take them to the "reading room", or when relaxing in < the evening.   To save paper, I printed it double sided, but> then discovered that the gutter margin was always on the left.: The second problem is that when printed on my HP 4000 from> Adobe Acrobat Reader 6.0, the lines at the very top and bottom of the page were cut off.   ; Would it be possible to have whoever prepares the PDF files ) check for things like this in the future?    Thanks,  Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 21:31:57 +0000 (UTC) % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> J Subject: Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal.6 Message-ID: <slrnd1fc79.cc4.usenet@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>  [ In article <1108845084.504809@smirk>, Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote: $ > susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > J >> It is my pleasure to announce the latest issue of the OpenVMS TechnicalF >> Journal. First, I would like to apologize for the delay; however weE >> were otherwise occupied in getting OpenVMS Version 8.2 out. Please  >> visit the Web site at: 9 >> "http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/index.html"  > > ... @ >> I hope you enjoy this issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. > G > Thank you, I enjoyed it very much.   I especially liked John Reagan's + > article on porting the Macro-32 compiler.   , Likewise, found interesting as well. Thanks!  @ (The details on the I64 NaT handling, and many other things, wasF interesting and illuminative. I'd noticed the NaT mentioned in some ofF the other VMS docs -- the I64 calling standards document, perhaps, but; wondered how the compiler did its magic. Wonder no longer!)   G I also noted on the journal web site, this comment in Mr. Reagan's bio:   < 	His first task was to answer one of the Pascal SPRs that he 	submitted as a customer.   D Must've been interesting to find the problem from the other side and+ resolve it. Was the customer satisfied? :-)   E I did enjoy the various other articles as well. Such as Mr. Buckley's G article on the address space extension from 32-bit to 64-bit throughout  VMS v6 and v7.   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:13:26 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down= Message-ID: <55KdnSibdOlFEorfRVn-gg@metrocastcablevision.com>    John Smith wrote:    ...   ) > JF said that only 660 accounts existed.   H No, that's just the way Keith read it (and apparently you as well).  JF I said "only 660 customer left *that matter*" (emphasis added) - which may  H be a debatable characterization but should have been easily interpreted 2 correctly by anyone acquainted with the situation.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:21:51 -0500 , From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavy.com>, Subject: Re: HP financials: Alpha sales downB Message-ID: <1108854596.784e993ee4db9dcbbed2d131f2842af0@teranews>   Neil Rieck wrote: N > I believe that some potential customers buying stop-gap Alphas from the usedI > equipment market accounts for "some" of the currently bad sales figures   F But it also says a lot when the used equipment sellers are doing briskF business. It is a signal that lots of VMS customers are dumping Alphas+ to the used market and not buying new ones.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 16:02:48 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down( Message-ID: <opsmgyey1mzgicya@hyrrokkin>  L On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:21:51 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavy.com>   wrote:   > Neil Rieck wrote: L >> I believe that some potential customers buying stop-gap Alphas from the   >> used J >> equipment market accounts for "some" of the currently bad sales figures > H > But it also says a lot when the used equipment sellers are doing briskH > business. It is a signal that lots of VMS customers are dumping Alphas- > to the used market and not buying new ones.   J I thought the OP said they were bidding them up, that suggests a sellers   market.        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:35:58 -0500 , From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavy.com>, Subject: Re: HP financials: Alpha sales downB Message-ID: <1108859038.6a38ae1f1a9a408ddacf46d211dd6288@teranews>   John Smith wrote: K > JF said that only 660 accounts existed. I corrected that falsehood as you   E VMS has gone from "we want to expand our city", to "we'll protect our O existing city" and is now down to "we're happy keeping just the downtown core".   D It has to do with continually lowering expactations from the onwer'sF point of view of what market VMS is capable of. And now, it is down to> HP caring only about some 600 customers, and caring only aboutA maintaining those becuse HP doesn't think VMS has much chances in % todays's "industry standard" markets.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:51:17 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>: Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions for bootcamp sessions+ Message-ID: <421798B4.50EA6E74@comcast.net>    Nigel Barker wrote:  > H > On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:24:09 GMT, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote: > R > >:However it is still possible to do the equivalent of >>> b dka0 it's just that2 > >:you have to type in a few more characters e.g. > >:' > >:shell>  fs0:\efi\vms\vms_loader.efi  > > C > >  That's the fixed-disk path to the OpenVMS EFI bootstrap script   > >  in the first FAT partition. > M > It is the equivalent of >>> b dka0 which is also specific to one disk. Some N > knowledge of which disk you are booting from is necessary just as it is with > Alpha.  F Sounds like the way we used to have differing boot profiles on the VAX 6000 series.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:29:45 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...= Message-ID: <lfadneIITeU2DorfRVn-uA@metrocastcablevision.com>    Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > Michael D. Ober wrote:J >  > If this becomes a common problem, I suspect it will spell the end of 	 > free OS  >  >> downloads (Linux).   G Well, Microsoft would certainly appreciate such suspicions:  unfounded  H though they may be, they could help generate a self-fulfilling prophecy.  H In fact, generating a 'system check' bootable CD-ROM image and shipping F it right along with each Linux distribution would achieve exactly the E same level of scrutiny that Windows is talking about, and would be a  H relatively trivial addition to the kit.  Hell, with Linux it might even  fit on a floppy.   >>
 >> Mike Ober.  >>) >> <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message ? >> news:1108733310.343931.80970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  >>> >>> so you think everything can be patched in windoze land ... >>> - >>> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21326  >  > K > The real problem i operating systems where it is normal to browse on the  A > internet while while having system administrators rights.  Any  H > reasonebly designed OS would not allow normal users to install kernel I > mode patches, and you need to do that to install that kind of spyware.  J > Read:  The descibed problem is a problem on Windows, but not on OpenVMS 
 > or *nix.  H Of course.  Not to mention Windows due to its pervasiveness still being A the target of choice even if the vulnerabilities were equivalent.   D WinNT/2K/XP are at least *potentially* less vulnerable - as long as A their users don't typically run as administrators.  But it still  G highlights the prudence in just about *any* environment of judiciously  I segregating user data from system data so that if something does corrupt  I your system you can just cheerfully wave good-bye to it, gen up another,  I and continue working - and non-Windows systems tend to allow (and indeed  @ promote) such segregation considerably better than Windows does.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:27:28 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...( Message-ID: <opsmgq72mvzgicya@hyrrokkin>  H On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:29:45 -0500, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>   wrote:   > Karsten Nyblad wrote:  >> Michael D. Ober wrote: L >>  > If this becomes a common problem, I suspect it will spell the end of  
 >> free OS >> >>> downloads (Linux). > J > Well, Microsoft would certainly appreciate such suspicions:  unfounded  J > though they may be, they could help generate a self-fulfilling prophecy. > K > In fact, generating a 'system check' bootable CD-ROM image and shipping   I > it right along with each Linux distribution would achieve exactly the   H > same level of scrutiny that Windows is talking about, and would be a  K > relatively trivial addition to the kit.  Hell, with Linux it might even    > fit on a floppy. >  >>>  >>> Mike Ober. >>> * >>> <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message@ >>> news:1108733310.343931.80970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >>> ? >>>> so you think everything can be patched in windoze land ...  >>>>. >>>> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21326K >>   The real problem i operating systems where it is normal to browse on   G >> the internet while while having system administrators rights.  Any   J >> reasonebly designed OS would not allow normal users to install kernel  K >> mode patches, and you need to do that to install that kind of spyware.   L >> Read:  The descibed problem is a problem on Windows, but not on OpenVMS   >> or *nix.  > K > Of course.  Not to mention Windows due to its pervasiveness still being   C > the target of choice even if the vulnerabilities were equivalent.  > G > WinNT/2K/XP are at least *potentially* less vulnerable - as long as   D > their users don't typically run as administrators.  But it still  J > highlights the prudence in just about *any* environment of judiciously  L > segregating user data from system data so that if something does corrupt  L > your system you can just cheerfully wave good-bye to it, gen up another,  L > and continue working - and non-Windows systems tend to allow (and indeed  B > promote) such segregation considerably better than Windows does.  D It is not difficulty to install a non-detectable Trojan Horse in a  	 compiler. I So you ultimately have to trust your supplier.  Given the great amount of < software that is downloaded, the world is a dangerous place.   >  > - bill       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------   Date: 19 Feb 2005 22:28:23 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ..., Message-ID: <37pss7F5e6cnmU1@individual.net>  ( In article <opsmgq72mvzgicya@hyrrokkin>,& 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > F > It is not difficulty to install a non-detectable Trojan Horse in a   > compiler.   + Have you been reading old ACM papers again?   F "The actual bug I planted in the compiler would match code in the UNIXH "login" command. The replacement code would miscompile the login commandC so that it would accept either the intended encrypted password or a E particular known password. Thus if this code were installed in binary G and the binary were used to compile the login command, I could log into I that system as any user." ("Reflections on Trusting Trust", Ken Thompson)   K > So you ultimately have to trust your supplier.  Given the great amount of > > software that is downloaded, the world is a dangerous place.  F And in the next paragraph we see why OpenSource is the next best thing to trusting your supplier.  I "Such blatant code would not go undetected for long. Even the most casual H perusal of the source of the C compiler would raise suspicions." (ibid.)     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 16:00:35 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...( Message-ID: <opsmgya9sizgicya@hyrrokkin>  F On 19 Feb 2005 22:28:23 GMT, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  * > In article <opsmgq72mvzgicya@hyrrokkin>,( > 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: >>E >> It is not difficulty to install a non-detectable Trojan Horse in a  >> compiler. > - > Have you been reading old ACM papers again?  No, but I do remember it.  > H > "The actual bug I planted in the compiler would match code in the UNIXJ > "login" command. The replacement code would miscompile the login commandE > so that it would accept either the intended encrypted password or a G > particular known password. Thus if this code were installed in binary I > and the binary were used to compile the login command, I could log into K > that system as any user." ("Reflections on Trusting Trust", Ken Thompson)  > K >> So you ultimately have to trust your supplier.  Given the great amount    >> of ? >> software that is downloaded, the world is a dangerous place.  > H > And in the next paragraph we see why OpenSource is the next best thing > to trusting your supplier. > K > "Such blatant code would not go undetected for long. Even the most casual J > perusal of the source of the C compiler would raise suspicions." (ibid.)  L But remember, it is a bootstrapping compiler, so the Trojan horse could be   in theG compiler used to compile the compiler sources, and it could reproduce    itself4 without ever being in the sources you are compiling. >  >  > bill >        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:11:37 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...0 Message-ID: <111fodco7hotc9c@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  H > And in the next paragraph we see why OpenSource is the next best thing > to trusting your supplier. > K > "Such blatant code would not go undetected for long. Even the most casual J > perusal of the source of the C compiler would raise suspicions." (ibid.) >  >  > bill >    That statement assumes:   1 1) the person actually reads through ALL the code   % 2) the person knows C well enough and   # 3) the person understands compilers   A Why don't we just advocate that every user write his/her own OS,   compilers, utilities, ....  E When you have an environment where no one person can insert anything  G without peer review, then you have usable software.  Sort of like VMS.  * And to be fair, probably quite a bit more.  E I doubt that the 'open' part of OpenSource is of small value to it's  3 proponents, compared to the 'free' part.  ANSTAAFL.    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 17:46:00 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...( Message-ID: <opsmg26yj9zgicya@hyrrokkin>  G On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:11:37 -0500, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>    wrote:   > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > I >> And in the next paragraph we see why OpenSource is the next best thing  >> to trusting your supplier. H >>  "Such blatant code would not go undetected for long. Even the most  	 >> casual K >> perusal of the source of the C compiler would raise suspicions." (ibid.) 	 >>   bill  >> >  > That statement assumes:  > 3 > 1) the person actually reads through ALL the code  > ' > 2) the person knows C well enough and 4 Why do you assume it is C?  It could be any language > % > 3) the person understands compilers K That wasn't the point.  Doesn't matter whether not he understands compilers 3 You ultimately have to have trust in your supplier,  > D > Why don't we just advocate that every user write his/her own OS,   > compilers, utilities, .... > H > When you have an environment where no one person can insert anything  J > without peer review, then you have usable software.  Sort of like VMS.  , > And to be fair, probably quite a bit more. > H > I doubt that the 'open' part of OpenSource is of small value to it's  5 > proponents, compared to the 'free' part.  ANSTAAFL.  >  > Dave       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 03:06:26 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ..., Message-ID: <37q9l1F5h76slU1@individual.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   <snip> > K > "Such blatant code would not go undetected for long. Even the most casual J > perusal of the source of the C compiler would raise suspicions." (ibid.) > * But what worries me is "How long is long?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:54:41 -0800  From: Z <Z@no.spam> F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...) Message-ID: <oYTRd.3962$i7.2165@fe07.lga>    Karsten Nyblad wrote: K > The real problem i operating systems where it is normal to browse on the  A > internet while while having system administrators rights.  Any  H > reasonebly designed OS would not allow normal users to install kernel I > mode patches, and you need to do that to install that kind of spyware.    G I use XP and browse from a limited acct.  Don't blame the o/s for dumb  E users.  That's like blaming VMS because people leave the SYSTEM acct   with the default password.    J > Read:  The descibed problem is a problem on Windows, but not on OpenVMS 
 > or *nix.  G OpenVMS and Unix users tend to be a bit smarter than Joe Windows. They  E have to be since it takes more than your average Joe Windows to just  H manage those systems - when Joe Shmoe runs a Unix or Linux box, he gets  rooted quickly.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:23:32 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...= Message-ID: <9JednaLRm4xYjYXfRVn-sw@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > I >> And in the next paragraph we see why OpenSource is the next best thing  >> to trusting your supplier.  >>L >> "Such blatant code would not go undetected for long. Even the most casualK >> perusal of the source of the C compiler would raise suspicions." (ibid.)  >> >> >> bill  >> >  > That statement assumes:  > 3 > 1) the person actually reads through ALL the code  > ' > 2) the person knows C well enough and  > % > 3) the person understands compilers   I No:  it assumes that at least *1* of the many people using (or even just  D interested in) the compiler actually looks through it, knows C, and  understands compilers.  D Because *everyone* has the opportunity to, and it only takes one to I catch the problem.  Contrast this with a closed compiler where at most a  H handful of people are likely to be looking at the code (and if just one E of them is up to no good, it has at least a decent chance to slip by   into the product).  F An open-source product as widely-used as most compilers are is pretty C safe in this respect.  Something of far more limited applicability  I (i.e., which only a handful of users might be interested in) may be less  8 so, but is still open to perusal by anyone who cares to.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2005 23:13:46 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...3 Message-ID: <2ygTer82nOeB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ? In article <oYTRd.3962$i7.2165@fe07.lga>, Z <Z@no.spam> writes:  > Karsten Nyblad wrote: L >> The real problem i operating systems where it is normal to browse on the B >> internet while while having system administrators rights.  Any I >> reasonebly designed OS would not allow normal users to install kernel  J >> mode patches, and you need to do that to install that kind of spyware.  > I > I use XP and browse from a limited acct.  Don't blame the o/s for dumb  G > users.  That's like blaming VMS because people leave the SYSTEM acct   > with the default password.  B VMS fixed that problem by eliminating the default password for the SYSTEM account.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:48:26 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP+ Message-ID: <42179809.8ED13C1D@comcast.net>    Ken Robinson wrote:  > : > At 09:59 PM 2/18/2005, David J Dachtera wrote (in part): > ' > >That's how it SUPPOSED to work, yes.  > > K > >When my system boots, I see messages about shadow-set inconsistency, and A > >then the boot disk is reMOUNTed as a single-member shadow-set.  >  > Which version on VMS?  > L > There was a problem in version 7.3-2 after shadowing to dissimilar devicesL > was introduced that showed similar characteristics. The system would allowH > shadowing of the system disk to dissimilar devices, but when trying toK > boot, the system would either crash or issue that message. I believe that  > problem has been patched.  > L > I discovered it while trying to move a system disk from HSG storage to EVA> > storage. A 9 Gb HSG disk is not the same as a 9 Gb EVA disk.  E V7.2-2 displays this behavior, and even after an upgrade to V7.3-2 on H the same machine, still does the same thing. I have a MOUNT statement toA re-assemble the shadow-set in my MOUNTALLDISKS.COM proc. which is A invoked during SYSTARTUP_VMS. So, it's only an issue in a minimal > startup or even starting full but without SYSTARTUP_VMS and/or MOUNTALLDISKS.   Hello, CSC?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2005 18:53:49 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>* Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUPC Message-ID: <1108868029.762617.112510@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Ken Fairfield wrote:
 > Z wrote: >  > > Carl Bennett wrote:  > > " > >> I tend to agree with David... > >>E > >> Unless I am doing a quorum disk, (which gets stuck in SYLOGICALS  soE > >> that I can set up the roots for SYSUAF, QMAN$MASTER, etc... ), I  like= > >> to mount disks under a separate com file near the end of 
 SYSTARTUP. It @ > >> just makes it easier if you ever have to get in and cut the startup  > >> off before it finishes... > >  > > C > > ... or a shadowed system disk. I put that $MOUNT in SYLOGICALS.  >  > Why? > ; > A shadowed system disk is already mounted by the time you < > get to SYLOGICALS (or anywhere interesting).  I would say,; > "What possible purpose could that serve?"  However I know = > of one.  An uncommon one to be sure, but one that a certain , > regular poster here probably encounters... >  > What's your reason?  >  >      -Ken     D Are some sys managers mounting system disk shadow members in startup? DCL command procedures? Here is the warning of why NOT to do so  straight from the manual   From  G     http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/aa-pvxmj-te/aa-pvxmj-te.HTML     E Do not add members to a system disk shadow set in startup procedures. F Doing so can result in loss of data under the following circumstances:  A A system is operating normally with a multiple member system disk  shadow set.   F The original boot device is removed from the shadow set but remains as a functioning disk.   0 The system continues with the remaining members.  $ The system is shut down or it fails.  G The system is rebooted using the original boot device (which is now out 	 of date).   G The boot process determines that the boot device is not consistent with G the other shadow set members and, therefore, does not add them into the D shadow set. This behavior preserves the up-to-date data on the other members.  B A MOUNT command in the startup procedure adds the other shadow set& members to the system disk shadow set.  E A copy operation from the boot device to the other shadow set members ' is initiated, thereby overwriting them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:01:59 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: Need performance help+ Message-ID: <42179B37.8E4E1736@comcast.net>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----= > > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net] $ > > Sent: February 18, 2005 10:08 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & > > Subject: Re: Need performance help > >  > [snip...]  > 5 > > > Also, have not used this myself, but check out: 6 > > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/dcpi/ > > @ > > Looked at that today. I was hoping it could be a replacement > > for SPM orH > > PSPA, but it seems much more engineering-oriented, and assumes a farF > > more intimate knowledge of the software than the average CTO, data: > > center manager, etc. is likely to possess when seeking > > performance data > > from the system. > >  > > Still hoping...  > >  > > -- > > David J Dachtera > > dba DJE Systems  > > http://www.djesys.com/ > >  >  > [snip ..]  >  > David, > ? > Not the same as SPM, but did you also consider the following: ; > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ecp/index.html  > G > [ECP V5.4D for VMS V7.3-2 and below; V5.5 required for VMS V8.2 Alpha & > systems. See VMS V8.2 release notes]  F Yeah, looked at that too. Don't remember all the specifics, but I seemF to recall the automatable portions only offering the equivalent of the? first page (tabular summary) of an SPM report (no histograms?).   E I wnat to be able to set up an option on an operators' menu such that H when a manager wants a report, he can get it with one phone call withoutH someone like me having to play point-and-click for hours just to get it.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 04:06:11 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com " Subject: Re: Need performance help- Message-ID: <87bragjowc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  2 >> Also, have not used this myself, but check out:3 >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/dcpi/   F > Looked at that today. I was hoping it could be a replacement for SPME > or PSPA, but it seems much more engineering-oriented, and assumes a C > far more intimate knowledge of the software than the average CTO, = > data center manager, etc. is likely to possess when seeking # > performance data from the system.   C BTW, if you have not seen the message, DCPI will crash 8.2 systems.  Fix is in the works RSN.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:32:45 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> " Subject: RE: Need performance helpR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F633@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----> > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net]=20! > Sent: February 19, 2005 3:02 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ > Subject: Re: Need performance help >=20  	 [snip...]    > >=20
 > > David, > >=20A > > Not the same as SPM, but did you also consider the following: = > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ecp/index.html  > >=20A > > [ECP V5.4D for VMS V7.3-2 and below; V5.5 required for VMS=20  > V8.2 Alpha( > > systems. See VMS V8.2 release notes] >=20H > Yeah, looked at that too. Don't remember all the specifics, but I seemH > to recall the automatable portions only offering the equivalent of theA > first page (tabular summary) of an SPM report (no histograms?).  >=20G > I wnat to be able to set up an option on an operators' menu such that @ > when a manager wants a report, he can get it with one phone=20 > call withoutB > someone like me having to play point-and-click for hours just=20 > to get it. >=20  D Something to consider is to set up web site on Apache CSWS which hasD daily / weekly reports that the end users require. That way, you can> simply tell them to check the web site for the latest reports.  G As I recall, there has been a few suggestions in the past on how to set  this up.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477S kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2005 21:13:11 -0800& From: merrittr@gmail.com (rob merritt)  Subject: OpenVms decNet Routing!= Message-ID: <36afd772.0502192113.7b468761@posting.google.com>s   Hi   Aaaaghho  J I have been trying to set a vms node from type nonrouting iv to routing iv I tried:   ncp>def exec type routing iv f ncp>set exec state off $@startnet i   this doens't seem to do it   as well  NCP>set exec type routing iv. %NCP-W-COMSTA, Component in wrong state , Node     NCP>  7 either way I can not get the exec type to be routing ivu   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 21:49:42 -0800. From: Z <Z@no.spam>n$ Subject: Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!* Message-ID: <dEVRd.3982$Dh1.1152@fe07.lga>   rob merritt wrote:9 > either way I can not get the exec type to be routing ivr  % Do you have the DVNETRTG (?) license?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:09:36 -0600n2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Small Partner Strategyo+ Message-ID: <42179CFF.15A8D221@comcast.net>p   Dave Froble wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:a > > Dave Froble wrote: > ! > >>Another idea shot in the ass.t > >t > >y0 > > Geez, Dave, can you be any more pessimistic? >  > Probably.3 > I > The story that started this is pretty much the same as my story, excepta4 > I was even smaller and didn't even survive Palmer. > I > I've got one customer that, when I questioned their firm desire to move I > VMS based applications to windows, replied "We no longer trust Compaq".-E >   There is no counter to such.  If they lack trust, then that's it.   E Which, of course, begs the question: whose WhineBloze server did theyu1 end up buying? I'm guessing it wasn't a Proliant.r  E > It gets pretty bad when someone will prefer to trust Microsoft, youo= > know, the people who said "Your problem is you trusted us".  > J > If HP started selling VMS systems at PC prices, I'd still have a problem) > selling them due to the last 5-6 years.n  G Well, that's part of what most of us bitch about aorund here, isn't it?:  H In my darker past, I once tried selling Rexair Rainbow vaccuum cleaners.D I tsill think they're theonly effect way to clean, but it got to theD point where the office had me showing up at people's doors at dinnerD time or at the children's bedtime because the office told them, "TheH presentation only takes a few minutes". So, I'm no stranger to having toG overcome obstacles. Actually, when you think about it, I've done prettyr: good for a guy with a measured(measurable?) IQ of only 79.   > Want more?  A Bring it on. The only way we can know what we're up against is toi' collect it all and assess our position.r  G Positive thinking is only good for so much. At some point, planning andyF strategizing have to come into play. The information is needed to make those efforts effective.  D As Zig Ziglar puts it, "Positive thinking won't let you do anything.H But, it will help you do everything better than negative thinking wiil".   -- k David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:1" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/e   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:16:18 -0600r2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Small Partner Strategy + Message-ID: <42179E91.39519C8D@comcast.net>y   Robert Deininger wrote:w > D > In article <1108744009.975338.57300@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote:. >  > .../ > I > >I don't see HP even bothering to pay attention to any such suggestion.pE > >They are just flat NOT INTERESTED in selling VMS into small/mediumeH > >business, and so have no interest in vendors that specialized in that > >area. > F > Does HP treat VMS differently than other enterprise products in thisH > situation?  (They clearly do have different policies for PCs and other > consumer stuff.) > J > I'm curious whether this is part of the Great Anti-VMS Conspiracy insideK > HP, or just another stupid-seeming policy that is hindering HP's businesst > in many areas. > I > (I write stupid-seeming, because a sufficiently incompetent bureaucracynJ > might actually generate enough overhead expenses to make $1 million/yearJ > in sales the break-even point for HP.  There's a chance that this policyK > actually improves HP's bottom line.  Fixing the bureaucracy would be evenh) > better, but maybe they don't know how.)s  D Well, consider that VMS's market includes a lot of US Gov't agenciesF (hence, the "black helicopter" references). It is possible that peopleF who held job security a higher priority than customer value decided toG emulate the waste and inefficiency inherent in government burro-craciesiF as a way to guarantee their job. So, yes, I suppose it's possible thatG in order to overcome burro-cratic inertia and drag, a mega-buck's wortho* of thrust is needed to keep things moving.    Terrific business model, eh? ;-)  < (That sounds sarcastic, but I'm actually agreeing with you.)   -- l David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:-" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/1   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:17:44 -0500m' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>r+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Small Partner Strategya0 Message-ID: <111foou4id9r90a@corp.supernews.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:l > Dave Froble wrote: >  >>David J Dachtera wrote:e >> >>>Dave Froble wrote:  >>! >>>>Another idea shot in the ass.- >>>  >>>e/ >>>Geez, Dave, can you be any more pessimistic?n >> >>Probably.c >>I >>The story that started this is pretty much the same as my story, excepty4 >>I was even smaller and didn't even survive Palmer. >>I >>I've got one customer that, when I questioned their firm desire to movelI >>VMS based applications to windows, replied "We no longer trust Compaq".eE >>  There is no counter to such.  If they lack trust, then that's it.f >  > G > Which, of course, begs the question: whose WhineBloze server did theyi3 > end up buying? I'm guessing it wasn't a Proliant.m   Dell.u  H For the new project I'm doing for them, the original plan was to put it E on it's own (new) server.  I've been pushing Opteron as today's best  H price/performance.  The HW (barely) guy decided that maybe it could use D an existing system.  My feeling is that if he can't have a Dell, he G doesn't want anything.  He's probably waiting for a later date when he : can slip in a new Dell server.  7 I wonder how a company like Dell gets customer loyalty?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:42:12 -0500 , From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavy.com>+ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Small Partner StrategylB Message-ID: <1108863027.85c0fa746cd9c9525e61e2f028037441@teranews>   Dave Froble wrote:9 > I wonder how a company like Dell gets customer loyalty?n  G Loyalty is fickle in the wintel market. Wintel experts just buy what is,L trendy this week and what they read about as being trendy in the trade rags.    F IBM used to be "THE" brand to buy. When Wintel learned about email andF networking, Compaq became the enterprise choice for office systems andN servers. Compaq weakened and DELL got the title and is now seen as THE vendor.  G Remember the "nobody's ever been fired for choosing IBM ?". This,today,gE translates to "nobody's getting fired for choosing this week's trendyn supplier of wintel".    = When DELL loses favour and some other vendor becomes popular,i# "loyalties" will immediatly follow.   H The "intel inside" branding is currently powerful enough that is trendy.G But AMD are starting to seriously erode this. If AMD becomes trendy andhH DELL doesn't follow, DELL may lose the "trendy" status. This is why DELL3 is slowly warming up to AMD.  It knowns the stakes.k  & It is *ALL* about marketing and image.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:11:04 +0100iS From: "B i t N i s s e n ;-)" <bitnissen#spammer_format_your_harddisk#@hotmail.com>e1 Subject: Re: OT: FS AlphaServer 800 5/333 EU-areaJ8 Message-ID: <eo3f11dppcc989cj4fqsr8eio2r3rqcj1l@4ax.com>   It is now on EBAY   V http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5751587961&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:DE:1   Ending Feb-20-05 07:29:42 PST     ; On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:23:45 +0100, "B i t N i s s e n ;-)" < <bitnissen#spammer_format_your_harddisk#@hotmail.com> wrote:   >Hi Guys >-C >I am selling my hobbyist server, because i have bought a PWS 500aub >t >Specs:c >	AlphaServer 800 5/333c >	256 Mb Ram >	9,1 GB HDD >	Cd-rom >	TLZ06-dat.+ >	No licenses - but OpenVMS 7.3-1 installedc >c1 >Price EUR 200,- + shipping or pickup in Denmark.e >.: >I still have a lot of Digital Network Equipment for sale. >i; >If you are interested in some of the parts - send me a bid) >  >Buyer pays shipping >e/ >Product                       PART-NO      Pcs 1 >----------------------------- ------------ ------/ >DecBridge 90                  DEWGB-M        2s/ >DecBrouter 90T1               DEWB1-N        2t/ >DECHUB 900 Powersupply        H7874-MA       3c/ >DECHUB One (PSU)              DEHVA-NB       2i/ >DecRepeater 90T-16            DETML-M        3e/ >DecRepeater FA                DEFAR-M        2 / >Decserver 90L+                DSRVG-M       11b/ >DECSwitch 900EE                              1g/ >DECSwitch 900EF               DEFBA-M        1o/ >Multiswitch HUB 624T          DLMR2-M        1n/ >MuxServer 90                  DSRZF-E        6t/ >PortSwitch 900TP/12           DETPX-M        3 / >Powersupply for X90 modules   H7027-AB       5s/ >RouteAbout Access EI          DEXBR-M       11e/ >RouteAbout access EW          DEXZR-M        4e/ >RouteAbout Central Router EW  DEZ8R-P        2 / >WanRouter 90 EW               DEWAZ-E        2t >o
 >Best regardsl >a
 >Jimmi Aakjrr > 2 >Remove everything between ## in my e-mail address >,   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:01:25 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: OT: On Dell, wintel innovation and HPB Message-ID: <1108871363.97ab7e9830f9478c1e8d89835bd9b9c2@teranews>  E I don't normally trust going to the microsoftized NBC sites, but theyl/ have a very good article allegely from Newsweekn  2 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6959937/site/newsweek/  F It is about Dell succeeding without any innovation by simply executingB better on commodity products and how this contrasts to HP's failedD attemps at innovation, and Apple,s success at innovation despite low
 market share.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:24:24 -0600-2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>/ Subject: Re: Port Print facility Update for I64M+ Message-ID: <4217A077.1959F8FD@comcast.net>t   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:g >  > David J Dachtera wrote:t > > "John E. Malmberg" wrote:i > >d > >>David J Dachtera wrote:  > >> > >>L > >>>I could use some help trying AEST WRQ's ALPHALK2.EXE (the Alpha-versionG > >>>of VAXLINK2). I got an image, but it ACCVIOs when I try to run it.o > >>G > >>Why not simply compile it?  WRQ does not provide it in binary, theyoH > >>provide it in source code, which they download to the host, and then > >>they compile it. > >nE > > If you know where to find the source code, please provide a link.  > G > Have you tried contacting WRQ support?  They have always been helpful 5 > for me.  They need to update their scripts for I64.  > J > At my former site, the VAXLINK stuff fell out of use once the PC LAN wasE > installed.  The WRQ terminal emulators also include a graphical FTP 8 > client as a separate and optionally installed program.  A R/FTP stopped being useful after V6.10. Starting with V6.20, theyn? adopted a "Windows Explorer"-like interface which precludes the:E possibility of renaming a file during transfer (example: put "my file H (and other stuff).exe" to my_file_and_other_stuff.exe) without using the
 command line.i  F Trouble is, the V6.10 R/FTP client is not entirely compatible with W2KG and later. It does run just fine, and fully supports non-compliant file D names (multiple embedded spaces, special characters, etc.), but doesC not, for example, find the desktop or "My Documents" folders excepts- under the user-specific directory structures.n   -- l David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:t" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/j   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:30:18 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG< Subject: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.20 Message-ID: <00A3FA41.E851B5E3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  F I finally got my Itanium box on line and went to add a graphic for theF DECWindow login dialog box with the machine's name.  I have produced aE custom graphic for every one of my VMS machines by replacing the filewE DECDTLOGO.PM with a unique logo for each machine.  Much to my dismay,sF this no longer works under OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium.  Strangely, the powersG that be that decided to disable this forgot about the idle lockout dia-lH log box.  When the screen is locked, I do get my logo displayed.  Sheesh4 what ever happened to consistency in VMS. :rolleyes:     -- vK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMd            e5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" b   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:56:36 -0600s2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>) Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distributionm* Message-ID: <421799F4.F7BD290@comcast.net>   Tom Linden wrote:t > 4 > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:56:31 GMT, Robert Deininger' > <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote:f > I > > The Alpha CD is very full.  It takes more effort with each release tooL > > squeeze the essentials onto the disk.  Since DVD is the standard on I64,L > > there was no good reason to even try to fit on a CD.   Once the line wasK > > crossed, there was no reason to spend effort trimming down the kit.  So D > > some of the reason I64 is bigger is just delayed-onset bloating.M > > I64 executables are bigger than alpha, but I haven't payed much attentiontD > > to the exact ratio.  Since disks are growing so much faster than, > > executables, it seems to be a non-issue. > ; > Any chance that we will need DVD HW for Alphas in future?(  F As DVD hardware typically handles CD-ROM as well, probably a good ideaF to upgrade when the opportunity presents itself. Probably need support from/in SRM for it.#  G Wonder if my little Alpha(Station-200 4/233) could be convinced to worka> with a DVD drive... (Does anyone make a narraow, SE SCSI DVD?)  F I'm guessing it's possible, but not altogether doable since there's soF much production Alpha kit out there that would need a hardware upgrade just to boot the latest distro.s   -- r David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:s" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/n   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 03:09:35 GMTo5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)s) Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium DistributionuL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1902052209360001@user-uinj4g9.dialup.mindspring.com>  M In article <opsmgg1yuozgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:   5 >On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:56:31 GMT, Robert Deininger  e& ><rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote: >gH >> The Alpha CD is very full.  It takes more effort with each release toK >> squeeze the essentials onto the disk.  Since DVD is the standard on I64,nK >> there was no good reason to even try to fit on a CD.   Once the line wasnJ >> crossed, there was no reason to spend effort trimming down the kit.  SoC >> some of the reason I64 is bigger is just delayed-onset bloating.iL >> I64 executables are bigger than alpha, but I haven't payed much attentionC >> to the exact ratio.  Since disks are growing so much faster thanf+ >> executables, it seems to be a non-issue.o >l: >Any chance that we will need DVD HW for Alphas in future?  H Very few alpha systems support DVD drives.  I don't expect the alpha VMS  installer to ever switch to DVD.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:16:05 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>.) Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium DistributionnB Message-ID: <1108872241.71d21f10067f4ba4e16925fc9623a4e8@teranews>   Robert Deininger wrote:nJ > Very few alpha systems support DVD drives.  I don't expect the alpha VMS" > installer to ever switch to DVD.  G My all mighty Microvax II can read CDs because my SCSI board makes themc look like a RA drive.   H Do DVD drives, when used as data devices in read-only mode really act so differently from CD drives ?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.101 ************************