1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 20 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 102       Contents:' DECwindows DCL command starts invisible # Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down # Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down # Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = RE: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = RE: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = RE: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...  Re: Need performance help  RE: Need performance help  Re: Need performance help  RE: Need performance help  Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!  Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!  Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!  Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!  Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!  Re: OpenVms decNet Routing! ) Re: OT: On Dell, wintel innovation and HP 7 Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 7 Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 B Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customers  Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution  Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution  Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution  Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution  Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 08:25:59 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: DECwindows DCL command starts invisibleB Message-ID: <1108905245.d24d0ebbba2286771416241fa1d2d847@teranews>   VAX VMS 7.2   G When I use the "DCL Command" menu option to open a fileview DCL command G window, it doesn't appear. I need to go to "work in progress", click on E the "DCL Command" item and "SHOW OUTPUT" and then the window pops up.   9 The menu option calls @vue$library:vue$dcl_command.com 35   3 (I added the 35 so it would open a 35 line window).    Thi file does the following:  , $ if "''p1'" .nes. "" then set term/page='p1 $ vue$exit_command_loop  $ vue$popup_focus  $ stop    H Does my window remain unrealised because it is trying to SET TERM at the
 wrong place ?   $ What does vue$exit_command_loop do ?, Should the poppup_focus be put ahead of it ?    8 Also, on a related note, I have a menu option that does: "telnet router1"  N The first time I call it, it does pop a window up, but I get a message inside:( $SYSTEM-W-NODEVAVL, no device available,& SMG-F-INVPAS_ID, invalid pasteboard-id  F If I close that window and try again, it works fine and connects me toA the router. Subsequent connects in that session are problem free.   8 Does anyone know why it fails the first time not later ?  G Must all menu entries be in vue$ style command proceduers that make the / various vue$ calls before doing when you need ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 09:57:24 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> , Subject: Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down8 Message-ID: <s2mg1116el4ebq0unn91h7c9dsn630pvch@4ax.com>  J On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:21:51 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavy.com> wrote:   >Neil Rieck wrote:O >> I believe that some potential customers buying stop-gap Alphas from the used J >> equipment market accounts for "some" of the currently bad sales figures > G >But it also says a lot when the used equipment sellers are doing brisk G >business. It is a signal that lots of VMS customers are dumping Alphas , >to the used market and not buying new ones.  P When sellers are doing brisk business that means there are lots of people buying not the contrary.    -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:45:08 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>, Subject: Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down+ Message-ID: <4218BE94.F34304A8@comcast.net>    Nigel Barker wrote:  > L > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:21:51 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavy.com> > wrote: >  > >Neil Rieck wrote:Q > >> I believe that some potential customers buying stop-gap Alphas from the used L > >> equipment market accounts for "some" of the currently bad sales figures > > I > >But it also says a lot when the used equipment sellers are doing brisk I > >business. It is a signal that lots of VMS customers are dumping Alphas . > >to the used market and not buying new ones. > R > When sellers are doing brisk business that means there are lots of people buying > not the contrary.    Indeed.   F I once predicted, perhaps incorrectly, that the hobbyist program wouldC spur demand for used small Alphas to the point that prices would be  "supported".  6 I see this is now happening in the Alpha after-market.  A T'would be a good time for Samsung or some other Alpha technology D licensee to provide new kit to an otherwise under-served market (the5 corner stone of any successful business startup), eh?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:46:41 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>, Subject: Re: HP financials: Alpha sales down+ Message-ID: <4218BEF1.C7E67C05@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > John Smith wrote: M > > JF said that only 660 accounts existed. I corrected that falsehood as you  > G > VMS has gone from "we want to expand our city", to "we'll protect our Q > existing city" and is now down to "we're happy keeping just the downtown core".  > F > It has to do with continually lowering expactations from the onwer'sH > point of view of what market VMS is capable of. And now, it is down to@ > HP caring only about some 600 customers, and caring only aboutC > maintaining those becuse HP doesn't think VMS has much chances in ' > todays's "industry standard" markets.   E As evidenced by recent events reports in the media, we're not exactly B talking about people of oustanding business acumen, let's face it.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 02:18:34 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...0 Message-ID: <111gdtb5k1t0794@corp.supernews.com>   Tom Linden wrote: I > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:11:37 -0500, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>    > wrote: >  >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>J >>> And in the next paragraph we see why OpenSource is the next best thing >>> to trusting your supplier.I >>>  "Such blatant code would not go undetected for long. Even the most   
 >>> casualL >>> perusal of the source of the C compiler would raise suspicions." (ibid.)
 >>>   bill >>>  >> >> That statement assumes: >>4 >> 1) the person actually reads through ALL the code >>( >> 2) the person knows C well enough and > 6 > Why do you assume it is C?  It could be any language  @ You are of course correct, and it doesn't matter what language. F Although the example above was of a C compiler, which most likely was  implemented in C.    >>& >> 3) the person understands compilers > M > That wasn't the point.  Doesn't matter whether not he understands compilers 5 > You ultimately have to have trust in your supplier,   0 I think that was the point I was trying to make.   >>E >> Why don't we just advocate that every user write his/her own OS,    >> compilers, utilities, ....  >>I >> When you have an environment where no one person can insert anything   E >> without peer review, then you have usable software.  Sort of like  3 >> VMS.  And to be fair, probably quite a bit more.  >>I >> I doubt that the 'open' part of OpenSource is of small value to it's   6 >> proponents, compared to the 'free' part.  ANSTAAFL. >> >> Dave  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:24:50 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ..., Message-ID: <cv9l2d$bd1$1@news.cybercity.dk>   Z wrote: > Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > H >> The real problem i operating systems where it is normal to browse on F >> the internet while while having system administrators rights.  Any I >> reasonebly designed OS would not allow normal users to install kernel  J >> mode patches, and you need to do that to install that kind of spyware.  >  > I > I use XP and browse from a limited acct.  Don't blame the o/s for dumb  G > users.  That's like blaming VMS because people leave the SYSTEM acct   > with the default password.  H Excuse me but why are ordinary people dumb because they assume that the H consumer product theys have just bought, is set up in a reasonable way? H      We can't be experts on computers.   The situation does not get any I better because many layered software products do not work as they should  C if you chance security settings.  That also goes for programs that  G should not need administrators rights.  Finding out why a program does  G not work on Windows is a nightmare, and often beyond what normal users  ? can do.  No wunder they prefer not to change the default setup.   C I have heard of a tax calculation program for calcultating peoples  I personal taxes that needed administrators rights.  As far as I know, the  F Sims 2 childrens game needs administrators rights, cannot run if anti 9 virus software is installed, and does not run on XP SP 2.   B You are right that you do not need to run IE from an account with C administrators rights, but Microsoft is very much to blame for the   default setup of Windows.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:41:18 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ..., Message-ID: <37r49uF5g6708U1@individual.net>   Z wrote:   > Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > H >> The real problem i operating systems where it is normal to browse on F >> the internet while while having system administrators rights.  Any I >> reasonebly designed OS would not allow normal users to install kernel  J >> mode patches, and you need to do that to install that kind of spyware.  >  > I > I use XP and browse from a limited acct.  Don't blame the o/s for dumb  G > users.  That's like blaming VMS because people leave the SYSTEM acct   > with the default password. > H Well, I forget which version of VMS that introduced this, but certainly F the V6.2 upgrade forced you to change the passwords for SYSTEM, FIELD ; and UETP, rejecting passwords it thought too easy to guess.    That was about a decade ago.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:37:47 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> F Subject: RE: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F636@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20" > Sent: February 19, 2005 11:24 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com H > Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... >=20 > Dave Froble wrote: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >=20> > >> And in the next paragraph we see why OpenSource is the=20 > next best thing  > >> to trusting your supplier.  > >>A > >> "Such blatant code would not go undetected for long. Even=20  > the most casual ; > >> perusal of the source of the C compiler would raise=20  > suspicions." (ibid.) > >> > >>	 > >> bill  > >> > >=20 > > That statement assumes:  > >=205 > > 1) the person actually reads through ALL the code  > >=20) > > 2) the person knows C well enough and  > >=20' > > 3) the person understands compilers  >=20? > No:  it assumes that at least *1* of the many people using=20  > (or even just=20H > interested in) the compiler actually looks through it, knows C, and=20 > understands compilers. >=20H > Because *everyone* has the opportunity to, and it only takes one to=20= > catch the problem.  Contrast this with a closed compiler=20  > where at most a=20@ > handful of people are likely to be looking at the code (and=20 > if just one=20I > of them is up to no good, it has at least a decent chance to slip by=20  > into the product). >=20J > An open-source product as widely-used as most compilers are is pretty=20G > safe in this respect.  Something of far more limited applicability=20 A > (i.e., which only a handful of users might be interested in)=20  > may be less=20: > so, but is still open to perusal by anyone who cares to. >=20 > - bill >=20  @ There will always be reasonable arguments for and against making? sensitive code available for public review, but some additional ? practical considerations for "open source makes for more secure  products" include:  F 1. The number of open source advocates who understand driver/kernel/osG architecture implications of sensitive code *and* who have the time and D interest (remember they are likely not being paid to review all this= code) to review all of the free code out there is limited.=20   F Of those limited resources available that understand code to the right@ level, a growing number of these are bad folks who are extremelyH motivated types who will not report problems back to the originator, butH rather record them in the underworld databases of known hacks and holes.  E 2. There is a huge number of "open" type licenses out there today and ? even the open source advocates realize it is a mess. Reference: H http://news.com.com/Open-source+board+eyes+fewer+licenses/2100-7344_3-55 78799.html?tag=3Dnl   G 3. The idea of all software should be free is rapidly coming under fire G as new software patents issues arise. In a nut shell, if you develop an H innovative piece of SW that you feel is unique and worth patenting, thenF the thinking is that you should be allowed to do so in the same mannerF as a new HW invention. [Unfortunately, the devil is in the details and? going overboard / where to draw the line is where the practical G challenge lies. Lawyers will get rich and spend careers on this topic.]   
 Reference:H http://news.com.com/This+week+in+open+source/2100-7344_3-5582306.html?ta
 g=3Dcd.top    F Personally, while I view occasional external reviews of sensitive codeH under appropriate NDA's etc by trusted partners as being a good thing, IH still have a really hard time understanding how making the plans for theG bank building and vault available to everyone is going to make the bank  a more secure place.=20   E At some point, when you give your money to the bank you have to trust E that they know what they are doing with regards to securing your $'s.      Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 08:06:24 -0800  From: Z <Z@no.spam> F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...) Message-ID: <vG2Sd.6240$gR.5887@fe07.lga>    Karsten Nyblad wrote: E > I have heard of a tax calculation program for calcultating peoples  K > personal taxes that needed administrators rights.  As far as I know, the  H > Sims 2 childrens game needs administrators rights, cannot run if anti ; > virus software is installed, and does not run on XP SP 2.   B Microsoft in no way had anything to do with Sims or that tax calc 6 software or the fact that it needs admin privs to run.    D > You are right that you do not need to run IE from an account with E > administrators rights, but Microsoft is very much to blame for the   > default setup of Windows.   H What default setup are you talking about? Too loose or too tight? Seems  you're compalining about both.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2005 10:23:32 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...3 Message-ID: <rnw8k56nAatG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ? In article <vG2Sd.6240$gR.5887@fe07.lga>, Z <Z@no.spam> writes:  > Karsten Nyblad wrote: F >> I have heard of a tax calculation program for calcultating peoples L >> personal taxes that needed administrators rights.  As far as I know, the I >> Sims 2 childrens game needs administrators rights, cannot run if anti  < >> virus software is installed, and does not run on XP SP 2. > D > Microsoft in no way had anything to do with Sims or that tax calc 8 > software or the fact that it needs admin privs to run.  > Microsoft created the application environment that tempted the, application developer to require privileges.  ? For a counter-example, consider AS400, which as I understand it A does not have anything of interest for a running application that  requires privilege.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:49:30 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...= Message-ID: <7N-dnbfXJvQGIoXfRVn-rw@metrocastcablevision.com>    Main, Kerry wrote:   ...   B > There will always be reasonable arguments for and against making- > sensitive code available for public review,   G If 'sensitivity' is the only issue, then the only obvious argument for  H keeping the code private is security through obscurity - an argument to E which those perhaps best acquainted with security (the cryptographic   community) do not subscribe.     but some additional A > practical considerations for "open source makes for more secure  > products" include: > H > 1. The number of open source advocates who understand driver/kernel/osI > architecture implications of sensitive code *and* who have the time and F > interest (remember they are likely not being paid to review all this= > code) to review all of the free code out there is limited.    G So what?  The whole point is that it takes only a small number of them  I to give the code a good deal more review than proprietary code is likely  F to get.  Even those relatively rare corporations willing to pay their F developers to do thorough code reviews seldom pay very many to review G any given piece of code and often do not bother reviewing anything but   relatively 'critical' code.    > H > Of those limited resources available that understand code to the rightB > level, a growing number of these are bad folks who are extremelyJ > motivated types who will not report problems back to the originator, butJ > rather record them in the underworld databases of known hacks and holes.  F Those 'underworld databases' are often relatively open for inspection B (and there are plenty of 'grey' hackers who take as much pride in F revealing holes as in exploiting them).  Part of the challenge, after H all, is in successfully hacking systems that have had every opportunity E to defend themselves:  Windows script kiddies don't get much respect  , from those actually developing new exploits.   > G > 2. There is a huge number of "open" type licenses out there today and A > even the open source advocates realize it is a mess. Reference: J > http://news.com.com/Open-source+board+eyes+fewer+licenses/2100-7344_3-55 > 78799.html?tag=nl   C And your point is?  The only issue is whether the code is open for  4 inspection:  name one 'open' license where it isn't.   > I > 3. The idea of all software should be free is rapidly coming under fire ' > as new software patents issues arise.   I Another red herring.  No one here is arguing that all software should be  D free, just pointing out a particular advantage of software which is.  #   In a nut shell, if you develop an J > innovative piece of SW that you feel is unique and worth patenting, thenH > the thinking is that you should be allowed to do so in the same manner > as a new HW invention.  G Leaving aside the question of whether *algorithms and ideas* should be  = patentable (software itself, of course, is already eminently  9 copyrightable), that's just more of the same red herring.    ...   H > Personally, while I view occasional external reviews of sensitive codeJ > under appropriate NDA's etc by trusted partners as being a good thing, IJ > still have a really hard time understanding how making the plans for theI > bank building and vault available to everyone is going to make the bank  > a more secure place.    H Then you should study the arguments of those who understand the reasons G quite well (e.g., the cryptographic community which I mentioned above).    > G > At some point, when you give your money to the bank you have to trust G > that they know what they are doing with regards to securing your $'s.   I And one of the ways to develop such trust is to know that their security  E has been thoroughly reviewed and not found wanting (or even to do so    yourself if you're so inclined).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:48:49 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> F Subject: RE: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F638@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message----- > From: Z [mailto:Z@no.spam]=20 " > Sent: February 20, 2005 11:06 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com H > Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... >=20 > Karsten Nyblad wrote: I > > I have heard of a tax calculation program for calcultating peoples=20 @ > > personal taxes that needed administrators rights.  As far=20 > as I know, the=20 @ > > Sims 2 childrens game needs administrators rights, cannot=20 > run if anti=20= > > virus software is installed, and does not run on XP SP 2.  >=20F > Microsoft in no way had anything to do with Sims or that tax calc=208 > software or the fact that it needs admin privs to run. >=20 >=20H > > You are right that you do not need to run IE from an account with=20I > > administrators rights, but Microsoft is very much to blame for the=20  > > default setup of Windows.  >=20? > What default setup are you talking about? Too loose or too=20  > tight? Seems=20   > you're compalining about both. >   B I have not tried with Windows XP, but as I recall with W2K, even a@ number of the Microsoft products (Word, Excle etc) would not run. completely error free without elevated priv's.  . Might be interesting experiment for someone ..   :-)   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:09:58 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> F Subject: RE: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F63C@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20" > Sent: February 20, 2005 11:50 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com H > Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... >=20    	 [snip...]    > >=20> > > At some point, when you give your money to the bank you=20 > have to trust B > > that they know what they are doing with regards to securing=20 > your $'s.  >=20> > And one of the ways to develop such trust is to know that=20 > their security=20 I > has been thoroughly reviewed and not found wanting (or even to do so=20 " > yourself if you're so inclined). >=20 > - bill >=20  @ Many banks and financial institutions do have occasional outsideE security audits completed by trusted external security companies that  specialize in this work.  C That does not mean they have to release the bank building and vault @ plans to the public in order to increase their overall security.     Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:28:12 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ..., Message-ID: <37rvl9F5en1usU1@individual.net>   Z wrote:   > Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > F >> I have heard of a tax calculation program for calcultating peoples H >> personal taxes that needed administrators rights.  As far as I know, H >> the Sims 2 childrens game needs administrators rights, cannot run if A >> anti virus software is installed, and does not run on XP SP 2.  >  > D > Microsoft in no way had anything to do with Sims or that tax calc 8 > software or the fact that it needs admin privs to run. > F Sorry, but it appears that M$ created the environment that encouraged , such, and for that they must take the blame.  9 Try running a debug session on NT without admin rights...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:13:19 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...= Message-ID: <DqOdndZ1JtrdToXfRVn-1w@metrocastcablevision.com>    Main, Kerry wrote:   ...   B > Many banks and financial institutions do have occasional outsideG > security audits completed by trusted external security companies that  > specialize in this work.  B And one could reasonably argue that proprietary software which is H regularly subjected to similar such audits would not be at the security I disadvantage with respect to open-source software that other proprietary   software suffers from.  B Given the amount of proprietary software that actually meets this I criterion, your purpose in advancing this point is rather unclear (i.e.,  + it appears to be just another red herring).    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:37:45 -0800 0 From: Greg Cagle <gregc@removethisgregcagle.com>F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...0 Message-ID: <111hm7vrqbt1u5f@corp.supernews.com>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:   E > I have heard of a tax calculation program for calcultating peoples  K > personal taxes that needed administrators rights.  As far as I know, the  H > Sims 2 childrens game needs administrators rights, cannot run if anti ; > virus software is installed, and does not run on XP SP 2.   F Sims 2 "children's program" runs just fine on my XP SP2 systems, whichD has Ad-Aware, Spyboy, Norton Anti-Virus, and the beta MS Antispyware running.   - Greg --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:41:01 -0800 0 From: Greg Cagle <gregc@removethisgregcagle.com>F Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ...0 Message-ID: <111hme4dt5p4pcf@corp.supernews.com>   Greg Cagle wrote:   H > Sims 2 "children's program" runs just fine on my XP SP2 systems, whichF > has Ad-Aware, Spyboy, Norton Anti-Virus, and the beta MS Antispyware
 > running.  2 I'm pretty sure I meant to say "Spybot" there 8^).   - Greg --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:48:16 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: Need performance help+ Message-ID: <4218BF50.B3DAF0BC@comcast.net>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----= > > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net] # > > Sent: February 19, 2005 3:02 PM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & > > Subject: Re: Need performance help > >  >  > [snip...]  >  > > >  > > > David, > > > C > > > Not the same as SPM, but did you also consider the following: ? > > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ecp/index.html  > > > @ > > > [ECP V5.4D for VMS V7.3-2 and below; V5.5 required for VMS > > V8.2 Alpha* > > > systems. See VMS V8.2 release notes] > > J > > Yeah, looked at that too. Don't remember all the specifics, but I seemJ > > to recall the automatable portions only offering the equivalent of theC > > first page (tabular summary) of an SPM report (no histograms?).  > > I > > I wnat to be able to set up an option on an operators' menu such that ? > > when a manager wants a report, he can get it with one phone  > > call withoutA > > someone like me having to play point-and-click for hours just  > > to get it. > >  > F > Something to consider is to set up web site on Apache CSWS which hasF > daily / weekly reports that the end users require. That way, you can@ > simply tell them to check the web site for the latest reports. > I > As I recall, there has been a few suggestions in the past on how to set 
 > this up.  B ...and by what magic do these reports get created so the users can= display them? Seems to me key software layers remain missing.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:21:10 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> " Subject: RE: Need performance helpR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F63D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----> > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net]=20" > Sent: February 20, 2005 11:48 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ > Subject: Re: Need performance help >=20  	 [snip...]    > >=20H > > Something to consider is to set up web site on Apache CSWS which hasH > > daily / weekly reports that the end users require. That way, you canB > > simply tell them to check the web site for the latest reports. > >=20@ > > As I recall, there has been a few suggestions in the past=20 > on how to set  > > this up. >=20D > ...and by what magic do these reports get created so the users can? > display them? Seems to me key software layers remain missing.  >=20  G Reports and graphs can be generated automatically by any number of free H or commercial pkgs. Batch job then simply copies these reports/graphs toA web site (in appropriate format) where they are available for web  viewing by BU's and end users.  H As an example ECP (free) provides the capability to generate reports and
 graphs.=209 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ecp/index.html    Regards    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:32:20 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: Need performance help+ Message-ID: <4218C9A4.E0B7B3F8@comcast.net>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----= > > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net] $ > > Sent: February 20, 2005 11:48 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & > > Subject: Re: Need performance help > >  >  > [snip...]  >  > > > J > > > Something to consider is to set up web site on Apache CSWS which hasJ > > > daily / weekly reports that the end users require. That way, you canD > > > simply tell them to check the web site for the latest reports. > > > ? > > > As I recall, there has been a few suggestions in the past  > > on how to set  > > > this up. > > F > > ...and by what magic do these reports get created so the users canA > > display them? Seems to me key software layers remain missing.  > >  > I > Reports and graphs can be generated automatically by any number of free:J > or commercial pkgs. Batch job then simply copies these reports/graphs toC > web site (in appropriate format) where they are available for webs  > viewing by BU's and end users. > J > As an example ECP (free) provides the capability to generate reports and	 > graphs.i; > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ecp/index.htmlu  . ...which brings us back to my earlier comment:  G "Yeah, looked at that too. Don't remember all the specifics, but I seemeF to recall the automatable portions only offering the equivalent of the@ first page (tabular summary) of an SPM report (no histograms?)."  F If you, as an OpenVMS ambassador, can provide any deeper insight, suchB as how to get SPM/PSPA-like ACSII histograms out of ECP, or how toH automate TLViz, the result might be a disfavor to CA, but a very *LARGE*( favor to the OpenVMS community at large.   -- e David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/i   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:50:07 -0500T' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> " Subject: RE: Need performance helpR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F63F@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----> > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net]=20" > Sent: February 20, 2005 12:32 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh$ > Subject: Re: Need performance help >=20 > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > >=20  > > > -----Original Message-----? > > > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net]M& > > > Sent: February 20, 2005 11:48 AM > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-( > > > Subject: Re: Need performance help > > >0 > >=20
 > > [snip...]m > >=20 > > > >e@ > > > > Something to consider is to set up web site on Apache=20 > CSWS which hasB > > > > daily / weekly reports that the end users require. That=20 > way, you canF > > > > simply tell them to check the web site for the latest reports. > > > >eA > > > > As I recall, there has been a few suggestions in the pastL > > > on how to setH > > > > this up. > > >iH > > > ...and by what magic do these reports get created so the users canC > > > display them? Seems to me key software layers remain missing.e > > >h > >=20? > > Reports and graphs can be generated automatically by any=20c > number of free= > > or commercial pkgs. Batch job then simply copies these=20c > reports/graphs toSE > > web site (in appropriate format) where they are available for web " > > viewing by BU's and end users. > >=20: > > As an example ECP (free) provides the capability to=20 > generate reports and > > graphs.e= > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ecp/index.html: >=200 > ...which brings us back to my earlier comment: >=20A > "Yeah, looked at that too. Don't remember all the specifics,=20r > but I seemH > to recall the automatable portions only offering the equivalent of theB > first page (tabular summary) of an SPM report (no histograms?)." >=20H > If you, as an OpenVMS ambassador, can provide any deeper insight, suchD > as how to get SPM/PSPA-like ACSII histograms out of ECP, or how to@ > automate TLViz, the result might be a disfavor to CA, but a=20 > very *LARGE** > favor to the OpenVMS community at large. >=20 > --=20D     David,  G I know this was discussed a few times before on comp.os.vms, but havingFG just installed VMS 8.2 on my work and home lab Alpha systems, I will dobC some testing with the new ECP V5.5 flavour and generate some sampleu& reports with some tips-n-tricks stuff.   :-)f   Regardst  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax: 613-591-4477s kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:15:09 -0000u6 From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk>$ Subject: Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!6 Message-ID: <4218713f$0$32611$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  E "Z" <Z@no.spam> wrote in message news:dEVRd.3982$Dh1.1152@fe07.lga...  > rob merritt wrote:; > > either way I can not get the exec type to be routing iv  >k' > Do you have the DVNETRTG (?) license?2  K Or he could have NET-APP-SUP-300 or NET-APP-SUP-400, both include DVNETRTG.    Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:29:24 -0500e+ From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net>o$ Subject: Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!A Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050220072641.037fcaf0@mail.patmedia.net>r  ) At 12:13 AM 2/20/2005, rob merritt wrote:hK >I have been trying to set a vms node from type nonrouting iv to routing ivu	 >I tried:e >  >ncp>def exec type routing ivi >ncp>set exec state offe >$@startnetf >o >this doens't seem to do ity >  >as well >NCP>set exec type routing ivn/ >%NCP-W-COMSTA, Component in wrong state , Noded  J Is you decnet license of the correct type?  I seem to remember that there F are three varients of the decnet license. One for FULL decnet (either G routing or non-routing), one for a non-routing end node, and one for a d
 routing node.    Ken    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2005 05:58:26 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com $ Subject: Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!B Message-ID: <1108907905.969271.69260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   rob merritt wrote: > Hi > 	 > AaaaghhA >rA > I have been trying to set a vms node from type nonrouting iv toi
 routing iv
 > I tried: >: > ncp>def exec type routing iv  + sounds like you need a DVNETEXT license ...g   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:01:33 -000066 From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk>$ Subject: Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!6 Message-ID: <42189840$0$32612$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>  8 "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> wrote in message; news:6.2.1.2.2.20050220072641.037fcaf0@mail.patmedia.net...d+ > At 12:13 AM 2/20/2005, rob merritt wrote:  >aK > Is you decnet license of the correct type?  I seem to remember that there'G > are three varients of the decnet license. One for FULL decnet (eithernH > routing or non-routing), one for a non-routing end node, and one for a > routing node.  >  > Ken,  I There are three types, DVNETEND (end node), DVNETEXT (extended function),o DVNETRTG (router).  I These can be individual licenses or they can be found in some NET-APP-SUPa	 licenses.e  # NET-APP-SUP-150 has DVNETEND in it.eE NET-APP-SUP-200 has DVNETEND and DVNETEXT explicitly contained in it.i# NET-APP-SUP-250 has DVNETEND in it. E NET-APP-SUP-300 has DVNETEXT and DVNETRTG explicitly contained in it.fE NET-APP-SUP-400 has DVNETEXT and DVNETRTG explicitly contained in it.r  L http://h71000.www7.hp.com/DOC/73final/6501/6501pro_001.html  table 1.3 shows" quite nicely what each of them do.  L As the OP did not specify VAX or Alpha, one can not say definitively what heC requires, but it is pretty easy to cross reference that link and my0 NET-APP-SUP chart.   Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:55:06 -0600b2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>$ Subject: Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!+ Message-ID: <4218C0E9.F22CE314@comcast.net>5   rob merritt wrote: >  > Hi > 	 > Aaaaghht > L > I have been trying to set a vms node from type nonrouting iv to routing iv
 > I tried: >  > ncp>def exec type routing iv > ncp>set exec state off > $@startnet >  > this doens't seem to do it > 	 > as well  > NCP>set exec type routing iv0 > %NCP-W-COMSTA, Component in wrong state , Node >  > NCP> > 9 > either way I can not get the exec type to be routing iv   4 Well, other posters have mentioned licensing issues.  G Also, I am still operating under the impression that DECnet-IV on Alphad? does not do routing, and that the best Alpha can do is multipletH interfaces with a DVNETEXT license. I could be mistaken, I suppose. I'veH not needed to do DECnet routing in so long, I've had no need to research it in any depth at all.'   -- o David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:u" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/o   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2005 10:31:14 -0800& From: merrittr@gmail.com (rob merritt)$ Subject: Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!= Message-ID: <36afd772.0502201031.3888859b@posting.google.com>   C looks like I have all those licenses  (we are on the CSLG...all you ! van eat OpenVMS layered products)-   any other ideasa    $  -----------------------------------!  Issuer:                      DECp3  Authorization:               A0104-CAMPUSWIDE-1746y&  Product Name:                DVNETEXT!  Producer:                    DECr  Units:                       0 !  Version:                     0.0y$  Release Date:                (none))  PAK Termination Date:        30-APR-2005   Availability:                0r(  Activity:                     000000100	  Options: 
  Hardware ID:     Revision Level:              2d$  Status:                      Active$  Command:                     ENABLE$  Modified by user:            SYSTEM5  Modified on:                  2-APR-2004 12:01:28.78e     and   $  -----------------------------------!  Issuer:                      DECr3  Authorization:               A0104-CAMPUSWIDE-1720s&  Product Name:                DVNETEND!  Producer:                    DECW  Units:                       0 !  Version:                     0.0e$  Release Date:                (none))  PAK Termination Date:        30-APR-2005c  Availability:                0s(  Activity:                     000000100	  Options:a
  Hardware ID:i    Revision Level:              2 $  Status:                      Active$  Command:                     ENABLE$  Modified by user:            SYSTEM5  Modified on:                  2-APR-2004 12:01:28.20o   and   # -----------------------------------t!  Issuer:                      DECh3  Authorization:               A0104-CAMPUSWIDE-1730e&  Product Name:                DVNETRTG!  Producer:                    DEC,  Units:                       0 !  Version:                     0.0t$  Release Date:                (none))  PAK Termination Date:        30-APR-2005   Availability:                0 (  Activity:                     000000100	  Options:e
  Hardware ID:0    Revision Level:              2e$  Status:                      Active$  Command:                     ENABLE$  Modified by user:            SYSTEM5  Modified on:                  2-APR-2004 12:01:29.39l      t "Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk> wrote in message news:<42189840$0$32612$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>...: > "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> wrote in message= > news:6.2.1.2.2.20050220072641.037fcaf0@mail.patmedia.net...a- > > At 12:13 AM 2/20/2005, rob merritt wrote:k > >fM > > Is you decnet license of the correct type?  I seem to remember that there I > > are three varients of the decnet license. One for FULL decnet (eitherSJ > > routing or non-routing), one for a non-routing end node, and one for a > > routing node.u > >h > > Kene > K > There are three types, DVNETEND (end node), DVNETEXT (extended function),  > DVNETRTG (router). > K > These can be individual licenses or they can be found in some NET-APP-SUP- > licenses.- > % > NET-APP-SUP-150 has DVNETEND in it. G > NET-APP-SUP-200 has DVNETEND and DVNETEXT explicitly contained in it.w% > NET-APP-SUP-250 has DVNETEND in it.iG > NET-APP-SUP-300 has DVNETEXT and DVNETRTG explicitly contained in it.iG > NET-APP-SUP-400 has DVNETEXT and DVNETRTG explicitly contained in it.t > N > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/DOC/73final/6501/6501pro_001.html  table 1.3 shows$ > quite nicely what each of them do. > N > As the OP did not specify VAX or Alpha, one can not say definitively what heE > requires, but it is pretty easy to cross reference that link and myp > NET-APP-SUP chart. >  > Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:51:19 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>2 Subject: Re: OT: On Dell, wintel innovation and HP+ Message-ID: <4218C007.5F424305@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  > G > I don't normally trust going to the microsoftized NBC sites, but theyr1 > have a very good article allegely from Newsweeko > 4 > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6959937/site/newsweek/ > H > It is about Dell succeeding without any innovation by simply executingD > better on commodity products and how this contrasts to HP's failedF > attemps at innovation, and Apple,s success at innovation despite low > market share.*  C Yes. Imagine what a moderately creative person could do with VMS...e   -- t David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:a" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/m   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:32:27 GMTa* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>@ Subject: Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.20 Message-ID: <f42Sd.352$Gr3.142@news.cpqcorp.net>  L I can't believe that if this indeed is broken, that it was deliberate.  File ab bug report.u  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A3FA41.E851B5E3@SendSpamHere.ORG...H > I finally got my Itanium box on line and went to add a graphic for theH > DECWindow login dialog box with the machine's name.  I have produced aG > custom graphic for every one of my VMS machines by replacing the file G > DECDTLOGO.PM with a unique logo for each machine.  Much to my dismay, H > this no longer works under OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium.  Strangely, the powersI > that be that decided to disable this forgot about the idle lockout dia- J > log box.  When the screen is locked, I do get my logo displayed.  Sheesh6 > what ever happened to consistency in VMS. :rolleyes: >. >  > -- e2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >r6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:09:53 GMTt" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG@ Subject: Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.20 Message-ID: <00A3FAC5.2A7D523B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ] In article <f42Sd.352$Gr3.142@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:gM >I can't believe that if this indeed is broken, that it was deliberate.  Fileo >a >bug report.  G Deliberate or not, it is broken with the file that I use on every otheri VMS/DECWindows machine.h   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             o5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:51:27 GMTo6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customersn< Message-ID: <jJ%Rd.9080$Go4.938359@twister.southeast.rr.com>   Thanks Keith!  :)i   Here are the questions, etc...    K 0. I'm only looking for data from mid-sized and large organizations. If yourD don't want your company name included, there is no need to respond).  L 1. name, position, company name, location of company and a brief description of it.  L 2. Give me the basics of your IT environment. The Oses, the Servers, Storage gear, apps, network, etc.a  L 3. Tell me about your DR solution. What hardware, software are you using, isF it a remote site (how remote),what data is mirrored, what is not, etc.  C 4. What best practices do you recommend for implementing a DR plan?g  @ 5. What key key technologies are essential in disaster recovery?  I 6. What are the absolutely crucial aspects of a state-of-the art disasterl
 recovery pland  1 7. What steps should companies take to get there.   C 8. What advice/lessons learned would you like to pass on to others?   F 9. Got any diagrams that show your DR plan in relatively simple terms?     Ken    OpenVMS.org % _____________________________________e Kenneth R. Farmer <><e% SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.comi      > "Keith Cayemberg" <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote in message < news:42185f95$0$24945$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net...K > I've just seen the following announcement by Ken Farmer at OpenVMS.ORG...o >  >tH > An article is being written about Disaster Tolerance by a trade press I > magazine. They need to interview a few customers. Any volunteers? They L1 > need you quickly. Email kfarmer(at)openvms.org.n >e >b	 > Cheers!s >r > K.C. .   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 06:20:03 -0800S# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>mK Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customerso( Message-ID: <opsmh13pzvzgicya@hyrrokkin>  " I'll reply as I posted on oracledb  B Surely there is somebody within HP for such a responsibility, withA access to the customer base,  a swat team of some sort, who would G jump on this opportunity and milk it for what it is worth.  Asking thisoC group to volunteer, even though I know many are willing, is franklym3 less than professional, at least on the part of HP.     2 on Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:51:27 GMT, Kenneth Farmer  & <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> wrote:   > Thanks Keith!  :)i >a  > Here are the questions, etc... >t >gK > 0. I'm only looking for data from mid-sized and large organizations. If  - > you-F > don't want your company name included, there is no need to respond). >bD > 1. name, position, company name, location of company and a brief  
 > description  > of it. >sH > 2. Give me the basics of your IT environment. The Oses, the Servers,  	 > Storage. > gear, apps, network, etc.r >oF > 3. Tell me about your DR solution. What hardware, software are you   > using, is H > it a remote site (how remote),what data is mirrored, what is not, etc. > E > 4. What best practices do you recommend for implementing a DR plan?  >hB > 5. What key key technologies are essential in disaster recovery? >oK > 6. What are the absolutely crucial aspects of a state-of-the art disastero > recovery planc >a3 > 7. What steps should companies take to get there.T >nE > 8. What advice/lessons learned would you like to pass on to others?t >uH > 9. Got any diagrams that show your DR plan in relatively simple terms? >e >b > Ken  > 
 > OpenVMS.orgg' > _____________________________________e > Kenneth R. Farmer <><t' > SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.coml >o >  >t? > "Keith Cayemberg" <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote in messageo> > news:42185f95$0$24945$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net...? >> I've just seen the following announcement by Ken Farmer at  e >> OpenVMS.ORG...g >> >>H >> An article is being written about Disaster Tolerance by a trade pressI >> magazine. They need to interview a few customers. Any volunteers? They 2 >> need you quickly. Email kfarmer(at)openvms.org. >> >>
 >> Cheers! >> >> K.C.g >i >n       -- eC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/p   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:15:08 +0100w0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersaB Message-ID: <4218c59e$0$24940$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   Tom Linden wrote:t  $ > I'll reply as I posted on oracledb > D > Surely there is somebody within HP for such a responsibility, withC > access to the customer base,  a swat team of some sort, who would I > jump on this opportunity and milk it for what it is worth.  Asking thismE > group to volunteer, even though I know many are willing, is franklye5 > less than professional, at least on the part of HP.n > > The following were my replies in the OracleRdb JCC Listserver.   Hi Tom and Robert,  F as I understand things this IS part of a grass roots effort to promote@ OpenVMS to a wider audience. A growing group of individuals are B cooperating to inform journalists and their readers of the unique > advantages of  OpenVMS (and Oracle Rdb as a classic part of a I mission-.critical solution). I am certainly not acting as representative u  of my employer in this capacity.  B One recent action by this group contributed to the publishing of a/ favorable article concerning Rdb in Datamation.i; http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/datbus/article.php/3441111s  H If such an action is "pedestrian", then so be it. Nobody is stopping HP H or Oracle from improving their professional marketing of these advanced B technologies. Some of us are not willing to sit back and wait for E journalists, professors, scientists and managers to finally wake up, sF study and realize how much more advanced and sophisticated the design G and architecture of VMS and Rdb is for the enterprise mission-critical t= problem space in comparison to it's more popular competitors.   ? I have repeatedly discussed the scientific basis of the design eC advantages in another forum (C.O.V.), which in many cases can't be uE attained by the competitors without a complete redesign, which would hE also require breaking upward compatibility with current applications eD (due to false assumptions in their design about what privileges and G capabilities should be accessible without honoring some formal request c and validation methodologies).   Cheers!a   Keith Cayemberge  D By the way, regarding our "pedestrian" or "grass roots" marketing I % would prefer a designation such as...-  3 	OpenVMS Technologies Guerilla Marketing Associates    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:08:42 GMTo  From: John Santos <john@egh.com>) Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium DistributionE+ Message-ID: <_HWRd.43358$uc.40362@trnddc04>>   Robert Deininger wrote:-I > In article <cv5uqh01u9k@enews3.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:  >  > ) >>John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote:o >>K >>>In general images run 2-3 times larger.  A combination of the ELF/DWARF  L >>>formats not being as tightly compact and a larger number of instructions K >>>(many of which are 'nop's to fill bundles).  In general, you can ZIP an ,: >>>.EXE file more than you can the source that created it. >>E >>>I also think there are other components as well, but I'm not sure.  >>I >>How does this effect the Memory footprint?  Does this mean you need 2-3o6 >>times as much RAM on Itanium as you did on an Alpha? >  > K > Dunno the exact ratio.  Since VMS runs on a 64-MB Alpha, and the smallestoI > HP I64 system available has 512 MB, fitting OS code in memory is not an  > interesting problem on I64.l > D > Code size can still be a performance issue due to memory bandwidthI > limitiations.  Memory bandwidth hasn't grown as fast as memory size.  I K > expect there are more importance considerations for performance than coder > size.i  D How about an architecture that has really dense code (so you can getC lots of it into the CPU quickly) and then decodes it inside the CPUn< into VLIW-type instructions?  Oh, wait, never mind.  Already9 exists.  Even runs VMS.  I think it's called a VAX... :-)n   -- c John Santosh Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 02:24:18 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>r) Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distributionj0 Message-ID: <111ge833bnes427@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:e > Robert Deininger wrote:9 > J >>Very few alpha systems support DVD drives.  I don't expect the alpha VMS" >>installer to ever switch to DVD. >  > I > My all mighty Microvax II can read CDs because my SCSI board makes them. > look like a RA drive.o > J > Do DVD drives, when used as data devices in read-only mode really act so > differently from CD drives ?  G It might not be so much what a driver can be set up to do while VMS is w; running, it might be what SRM can support as a boot device.    Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2005 08:21:54 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>) Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distributiono? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-ByiQ8KY5dQK8@dave2_os2.home.ours>s  3 On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:56:36 UTC, David J Dachtera  " <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:   > Tom Linden wrote:a > > 6 > > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:56:31 GMT, Robert Deininger) > > <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote:l > > K > > > The Alpha CD is very full.  It takes more effort with each release to N > > > squeeze the essentials onto the disk.  Since DVD is the standard on I64,N > > > there was no good reason to even try to fit on a CD.   Once the line wasM > > > crossed, there was no reason to spend effort trimming down the kit.  So-F > > > some of the reason I64 is bigger is just delayed-onset bloating.O > > > I64 executables are bigger than alpha, but I haven't payed much attentioncF > > > to the exact ratio.  Since disks are growing so much faster than. > > > executables, it seems to be a non-issue. > > = > > Any chance that we will need DVD HW for Alphas in future?  > H > As DVD hardware typically handles CD-ROM as well, probably a good ideaH > to upgrade when the opportunity presents itself. Probably need support > from/in SRM for it.d > I > Wonder if my little Alpha(Station-200 4/233) could be convinced to workt@ > with a DVD drive... (Does anyone make a narraow, SE SCSI DVD?)  F I have a Pioneer 303 in my PC, which is p*ssing me off at the moment. F The wife has one from Plextor that I haven't tried my 'problem' DVD's B on. I suspect it's just that the firmware (4/5 year old) lags the A developement of DVD +/-RW technology. ISTR I only bought it 'cos mF they'd run out Toshiba ones. The (newer) IDE drives here at home cope E with them quite happilly. With normal pressed DVD's, Data and Video, 1? the Pioneer works well so I would expect them to work OK in an a( AlphaStation, assuming the drivers cope.  = To sum up Pioneer, Toshiba and Plextor have made SCSI models.r   -- u Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 09:56:00 GMTp! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>l) Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distributiont8 Message-ID: <80mg119554520iah6b7lccg436jl1sac46@4ax.com>  P On 20 Feb 2005 08:21:54 GMT, "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote:  4 >On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:56:36 UTC, David J Dachtera # ><djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:o >  >> Tom Linden wrote: >> > t7 >> > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:56:31 GMT, Robert Deininger-* >> > <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote: >> > 0L >> > > The Alpha CD is very full.  It takes more effort with each release toO >> > > squeeze the essentials onto the disk.  Since DVD is the standard on I64,mO >> > > there was no good reason to even try to fit on a CD.   Once the line wasaN >> > > crossed, there was no reason to spend effort trimming down the kit.  SoG >> > > some of the reason I64 is bigger is just delayed-onset bloating.eP >> > > I64 executables are bigger than alpha, but I haven't payed much attentionG >> > > to the exact ratio.  Since disks are growing so much faster thano/ >> > > executables, it seems to be a non-issue.  >> > A> >> > Any chance that we will need DVD HW for Alphas in future? >> gI >> As DVD hardware typically handles CD-ROM as well, probably a good ideaeI >> to upgrade when the opportunity presents itself. Probably need supporta >> from/in SRM for it. >> oJ >> Wonder if my little Alpha(Station-200 4/233) could be convinced to workA >> with a DVD drive... (Does anyone make a narraow, SE SCSI DVD?)n >pG >I have a Pioneer 303 in my PC, which is p*ssing me off at the moment. yG >The wife has one from Plextor that I haven't tried my 'problem' DVD's yC >on. I suspect it's just that the firmware (4/5 year old) lags the  B >developement of DVD +/-RW technology. ISTR I only bought it 'cos G >they'd run out Toshiba ones. The (newer) IDE drives here at home cope @F >with them quite happilly. With normal pressed DVD's, Data and Video, @ >the Pioneer works well so I would expect them to work OK in an ) >AlphaStation, assuming the drivers cope.a >a> >To sum up Pioneer, Toshiba and Plextor have made SCSI models.   Don't forget HP.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 06:28:16 -0800h# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>d) Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution7( Message-ID: <opsmh2heiyzgicya@hyrrokkin>  C On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:08:42 GMT, John Santos <john@egh.com> wrote:S   > Robert Deininger wrote:mJ >> In article <cv5uqh01u9k@enews3.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: >>+ >>> John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote:l >>> D >>>> In general images run 2-3 times larger.  A combination of the  L >>>> ELF/DWARF formats not being as tightly compact and a larger number of  L >>>> instructions (many of which are 'nop's to fill bundles).  In general,  K >>>> you can ZIP an .EXE file more than you can the source that created it.n >>>eG >>>> I also think there are other components as well, but I'm not sure.  >>> K >>> How does this effect the Memory footprint?  Does this mean you need 2-3 8 >>> times as much RAM on Itanium as you did on an Alpha?G >>   Dunno the exact ratio.  Since VMS runs on a 64-MB Alpha, and the    >> smallestlJ >> HP I64 system available has 512 MB, fitting OS code in memory is not an >> interesting problem on I64.F >>  Code size can still be a performance issue due to memory bandwidthJ >> limitiations.  Memory bandwidth hasn't grown as fast as memory size.  II >> expect there are more importance considerations for performance than  w >> code. >> size. >rF > How about an architecture that has really dense code (so you can getE > lots of it into the CPU quickly) and then decodes it inside the CPUm> > into VLIW-type instructions?  Oh, wait, never mind.  Already; > exists.  Even runs VMS.  I think it's called a VAX... :-)1 >1H The bloating was about 3 times or slightly less, VAX -> AXP.  In currentH CPU design with multiple cores caches are becoming larger and the accessA to main memory is actually getting relatively slower, which is anaH argument in favor of an instruction set with greater information contentE per byte.  I think it would not be too difficult to extend the VAX tor 64 bit instructions.       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/S   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.102 ************************simply tell them to check the web site for the latest reports. > >=20@ > > As I recall, there has been a few suggestions in the past=20 > on how to set  > > this uXwUo'fҵd_bvPy|;6mqmX8a|Ry>DCv0`]*Aq,2ҧ_	ͩ!];E6ޢ\e_|;K<DXy [a;2`KԎ۷
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