1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 22 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 106       Contents:A Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal. : Re: Beginner I have a question about a credit union system: Re: Beginner I have a question about a credit union system/ Re: Cheapest small alpha to run (power/cooling) ) Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance : Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()]) Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc)  Header file for UCB equivalents # Re: Header file for UCB equivalents # Re: Header file for UCB equivalents # Re: Header file for UCB equivalents # Re: Header file for UCB equivalents # Re: Header file for UCB equivalents # Re: Header file for UCB equivalents  Re: HFLOAT to XFLOAT Re: HFLOAT to XFLOAT Re: HFLOAT to XFLOAT Re: HFLOAT to XFLOAT Re: HFLOAT to XFLOATP Re: Itanium Montecito Wins Microprocessor Report Analysts' Choice  Awardfor Best! Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP  Re: OpenVms decNet Routing! 6 Re: OT: PC is crap (was Curly soon to be out of a job) Party Poker Million IV% Re: Post Office as an HP VMS customer % Re: Post Office as an HP VMS customer % Re: Post Office as an HP VMS customer % Re: Post Office as an HP VMS customer % Re: Post Office as an HP VMS customer  Samba  kids me Re: Samba  kids me RE: Shark Tank mentions VMS  Re: Shark Tank mentions VMS  Re: Shark Tank mentions VMS 7 Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 7 Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 7 RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 7 Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 7 RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 7 RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 7 RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 7 RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 B Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customers  Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution  Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distribution  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:16:25 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>J Subject: Re: Announcing the latest issue of the OpenVMS Technical Journal.0 Message-ID: <d1ISd.388$7H5.189@news.cpqcorp.net>   Dan Foster wrote: ] > In article <1108845084.504809@smirk>, Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote: G >>Thank you, I enjoyed it very much.   I especially liked John Reagan's + >>article on porting the Macro-32 compiler.  >  > . > Likewise, found interesting as well. Thanks! > B > (The details on the I64 NaT handling, and many other things, wasH > interesting and illuminative. I'd noticed the NaT mentioned in some ofH > the other VMS docs -- the I64 calling standards document, perhaps, but= > wondered how the compiler did its magic. Wonder no longer!)  > I > I also noted on the journal web site, this comment in Mr. Reagan's bio:  > > > 	His first task was to answer one of the Pascal SPRs that he > 	submitted as a customer.  > F > Must've been interesting to find the problem from the other side and- > resolve it. Was the customer satisfied? :-)    Thanks for the kind words.  H The NaT guarding was a real nightmare to get right.  It also was one of I those things we didn't think of at the beginning.  In the 8.0 timeframe,  H the systems would just get random NaT consumption faults in kernel mode B and crash.  After we traced it back to the code practice of using I curtesy saves in Macro-32 code, we spent at least 2-3 weeks of modifying  F the flow analyzer to try to find the curtesy saves and NaT guard just H those registers.  We didn't want to simply generate 'tnat' instructions I when they wouldn't be helpful.  We'd build a compiler and give it to the  G system builds.  A few times, the test compiler wouldn't even build the  E system (compiler crash).  Other times, we "saved/restored" registers  I that should have output registers because we thought they contained NaTs  H and broke the system (it would build, but wouldn't boot).  On about the G 5th or 6th time, we got it working.  During that time in the VMS port,  I there were daily 1pm meetings to discuss issues/bugs/problems.  I really  D didn't like being the first topic on the agenda for a few weeks. :-)  H My personal nightmare was just writing the Itanium code for the FFS and C FFC instructions!  Probably took me 6 times or more to get all the  D corners painted.  We also struggled with INSV and EXT[Z]V.  We just I fixed yet another bug with INSV for post V8.2 (don't INSV something with  E a literal length of #32 into an memory location, we'll clobber extra  A bytes.  Put the #32 into a temp register first and use that temp  H register as the length operand of the INSV, you'll get slower code, but  it will be correct).  G As for my Pascal SPR...  Yep, if you look at the VAX Pascal V2 SPR log  H sheet still in my office, I submitted SPRs #2-#5 and many others before I I left the Oak Ridge National Lab and came to Digital.  The SPR I had to  H fix was dealing with inheriting enumerated types from environment files H (I probably can still even find the code 21 years later).  I did indeed B write myself an answer (remember that was back in the days of the @ multi-layer SPR forms!).  I'm guessing it got back to Oak Ridge.  @ One of my former co-workers, Dave Greenwood, is still there and F participates in this forum.  I certainly enjoy my time there and miss E the environment and people.  Many interesting projects and pieces of  3 hardware to play with (and not all computer stuff).      --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 07:56:13 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) C Subject: Re: Beginner I have a question about a credit union system 3 Message-ID: <6k$sbx$PbR0l@eisner.encompasserve.org>   { In article <1108938211.040998.120540@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Stephen  Costigan" <stephencostigan@gmail.com> writes: B > I am interviewing for a it maanger job next week and it requiresD > experience in openvms.  Now i have seen and played with an openvmsG > system before but i am not experienced per say.  Understanding that I H > have the abilitly to literally teach myslef anything in one weekend asI > longh as i dont need to learn a programming lanuguage to run it; do you ? > think i would be able to manage the system if i took the job?   &    I'd fire you the day you walked in.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 07:05:40 -0700 . From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc..com>C Subject: Re: Beginner I have a question about a credit union system - Message-ID: <V_GSd.4$z01.359@news.uswest.net>   K Don't represent yourself as an OpenVMS expert.  If you do, I would fire you K for misrepresentation of yourself.  (I've done it before and have no qualms C about doing it again.)  On the otherhand, if you have all the other I experience I was looking for and the ability to learn quickly, I wouldn't L necessarily not hire you either.  There are way too many hiring managers whoG look only at the specific skills they want and don't look to see if the L candidate would otherwise be a good fit and is willing to learn the required skills.   
 Mike Ober.  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:6k$sbx$PbR0l@eisner.encompasserve.org... E > In article <1108938211.040998.120540@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, 7 "Stephen  Costigan" <stephencostigan@gmail.com> writes: D > > I am interviewing for a it maanger job next week and it requiresF > > experience in openvms.  Now i have seen and played with an openvmsI > > system before but i am not experienced per say.  Understanding that I J > > have the abilitly to literally teach myslef anything in one weekend asK > > longh as i dont need to learn a programming lanuguage to run it; do you A > > think i would be able to manage the system if i took the job?  > ( >    I'd fire you the day you walked in. >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 08:49:22 -0800 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com8 Subject: Re: Cheapest small alpha to run (power/cooling)C Message-ID: <1109090962.960619.298190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Dan,G      I picked up a couple of those power metering units; they are going * to be very useful over the next few weeks.  @      Couple of items found so far.  I could not plug in just theB AlphaStation 600 due to my plug configs (at least until I get some? pigtails), so I plugged the UPS into the power monitor; the UPS E supports the AS600, drive tower, network switch, and a small desk fan = to keep the air near the system moving.  The wattage I see is 6 cumulative, but I'm breaking down the increments here.  . - UPS only (APC BackUPS Pro-1100)     20 watts. - Network switch and fan              20 watts
 - BA364 tower .   (with 9GB and 50GB 7200RPM disks)   30 watts'   (up to 50 watts while drives spun up) %   (up to 45 watts when drives active) . - AS600 idle, webserver idle         225 watts    (with 2x RZ28M, 256MB RAM)     (peak startup 270 watts) !    (webserver active, ~245 watts)   D So it looks like a DS10, with its 150 watt max draw, would provide aE decent decrease in power usage.  I'm going to leave each piece I test E on the meter for 24 hours to get a reasonable kw/hour average, then I G can figure out just how much each system costs to run per day, and what F kind of payback could be expected from power saving (and heat reducing in the summer!) alternatives.   F Just for the heck of it I plugged the other unit in with a PowerMac G5E (dual 2.5GHz, 1GB RAM, 120GB IDE); this unit by itself peaked at over G 300 watts during startup, about 140 steady state watts while in 'normal E use', 275 watts while the setiathome screen saver is running, and 240 B watts when seti is running but the screen has gone into power saveB mode; since the monitor itself is not running through the meter, IE assume this means the graphics card (a Radeon 9800, I think) actually  goes into a power saving mode.  G These things are fun!  And my wife's sparkly new computer is using more + power than my old space heater beast!  Heh!    Rich CCS    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:57:18 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 2 Subject: Re: Data replication / disaster tolerance- Message-ID: <87fyzor935.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   , "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:  C > Some (or all) proposed to have Volume Shadowing + RAID.  It seems B > like there no way around Volume Shadowing, but is RAID mandatory > here?   C > Of course it is if I want to be fully protected, but if a disk on > > one SAN dies, the DSAn device is still usable so I just haveF > problems if the remaining SAN (or the other member of the shadowset): > dies before a replacement disk is installed and rebuilt.  < Not needed, by a good idea, esp in a continuously up factory? environment. If you lose a shadow set member, life goes on. But = when you replace the drive, and mount it into the shadow set, 2 you get a full copy operation of the entire drive.  = By using HW raid pairs, a single drive failure and replacment ; all happens at the local controller and the load is shed to  the other controllers.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:56:55 +0100 , From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>C Subject: Re: Extending DCL [was: Re: DCL suggestion for f$verify()] 5 Message-ID: <1109070480.616213@proxy.dienste.wien.at>   H > At the moment [AFAIK] the only way to make use of such code from a DCLJ > procedure is to RUN an image that uses that routine, one that can accept the I > relevant arguments, and returns the result on SYS$OUTPUT. In most cases  thisJ > output would need to be captured for further use, so either DEFINE/USER, orJ > the PIPE command would be needed to effect the required I/O redirection, and B > the resulting data then READ back into a symbol for further use.   How about LIB$SET_SYMBOL?   K I have a lot of images performing some calculations - for example, an image / which adds or subtracts times. I invoke it with   @ $ MCR BOL_EXE:F_TIME SUB "21-FEB-2005 12:22" "21-JAN-2005 17:55"  B compute the difference using LIB$SUB_TIMES (or LIB$ADD_TIMES, whenB "ADD" is given as first arg) and store the result in a TIME_RESULTJ symbol. Works without problems since years. And during my login, this (andJ others) image is installed as known, shareable, so the performance penalty! during activation isn't too much.   A What I would much more prefer in DCL would be loop commands, such B as FOR and WHILE/UNTIL. These are the commands I do actually miss./ And handling of regular expressions, of course.    Greetings, Ferry   --   Ing. Ferry Bolhar % Municipality of Vienna, Department 14  A-1010 Vienna / AUSTRIA  E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:46:20 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>2 Subject: Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc)0 Message-ID: <gtISd.391$jE5.360@news.cpqcorp.net>   JF Mezei wrote:    > 2 > Any explanation for what S and T are used for  ? >  >   G "S" is for size.  "T" indicates that "text data".  From my experience,  F the "S" nomenclature is used quite a bit.  The "T" one, not as often. ? Probably only from the days when most people wrote in Macro-32.      --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2005 23:18:38 -0800 From: bhushann@gmail.com( Subject: Header file for UCB equivalentsC Message-ID: <1109056718.200569.148120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Hi,   <  I am writing a C code for the equivalent of the melow code.     $ sts = f$getdvi(vol,"sts") 9   $ if (sts .and. %x0010) .eq. %x0010 then ...   ! Online <   $ if (sts .and. %x4000) .eq. %x4000 then ...   ! MntVerifyC   $ if (sts .and. %x0800) .eq. %x0800 then ...   ! MntVerifyTimeout     > What I am looking for is the equivalent header file which will/ hold the named macros for %x0010,%x4000,%x0800. = Is there a header file available for including in the C code.    Rgds,  Bhushan    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:40:19 +0100 , From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>, Subject: Re: Header file for UCB equivalents4 Message-ID: <1109072421.95606@proxy.dienste.wien.at>   <bhushann@gmail.com>:   > >  I am writing a C code for the equivalent of the melow code. >  >   $ sts = f$getdvi(vol,"sts") ; >   $ if (sts .and. %x0010) .eq. %x0010 then ...   ! Online > >   $ if (sts .and. %x4000) .eq. %x4000 then ...   ! MntVerifyE >   $ if (sts .and. %x0800) .eq. %x0800 then ...   ! MntVerifyTimeout  > @ > What I am looking for is the equivalent header file which will1 > hold the named macros for %x0010,%x4000,%x0800. ? > Is there a header file available for including in the C code.   @ This information is part of the UCB (unit control block) and the> offsets and bit names are defined in macro $UCBDEF in LIB.MLB.  > AFAIK is no #include file for this. Extract the macro from the= macro library and use the definitions to build the approbiate  #define statements.   > If you're interested, I can send you a command procedure which= takes a macro module as input and builds the corresponding .h  file.    Greetings, Ferry   --   Ing. Ferry Bolhar % Municipality of Vienna, Department 14  A-1010 Vienna / AUSTRIA  E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 06:26:50 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley), Subject: Re: Header file for UCB equivalents3 Message-ID: <oA7WHAyURl4D@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <1109072421.95606@proxy.dienste.wien.at>, "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at> writes:  > B > This information is part of the UCB (unit control block) and the@ > offsets and bit names are defined in macro $UCBDEF in LIB.MLB. > @ > AFAIK is no #include file for this. Extract the macro from the? > macro library and use the definitions to build the approbiate  > #define statements.   8 The C header definitions are in module UCBDEF in library sys$library:sys$lib_c.tlb. Eg:   #define UCB$M_ONLINE 0x10  #define UCB$M_POWER 0x20 #define UCB$M_TIMOUT 0x40  #define UCB$M_INTTYPE 0x80 #define UCB$M_BSY 0x100  #define UCB$M_MOUNTING 0x200  G There's also a struct defined so that you can access the bits directly.    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st century    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 07:07:44 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: Header file for UCB equivalents( Message-ID: <opsmltm6q7zgicya@hyrrokkin>  . On 22 Feb 2005 06:26:50 -0600, Simon Clubley  5 <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:   G > In article <1109072421.95606@proxy.dienste.wien.at>, "Ferry Bolhar"   ! > <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at> writes:  >>C >> This information is part of the UCB (unit control block) and the A >> offsets and bit names are defined in macro $UCBDEF in LIB.MLB.  >>A >> AFAIK is no #include file for this. Extract the macro from the @ >> macro library and use the definitions to build the approbiate >> #define statements. > : > The C header definitions are in module UCBDEF in library  > sys$library:sys$lib_c.tlb. Eg: >  > #define UCB$M_ONLINE 0x10  > #define UCB$M_POWER 0x20 > #define UCB$M_TIMOUT 0x40  > #define UCB$M_INTTYPE 0x80 > #define UCB$M_BSY 0x100  > #define UCB$M_MOUNTING 0x200 > I > There's also a struct defined so that you can access the bits directly.  >  > Simon.  4 I wonder why that didn't make it to the starlet lib? >        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 07:40:22 -0800! From: kenneth.randell@verizon.net , Subject: Re: Header file for UCB equivalentsB Message-ID: <1109086822.028771.41570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Tom Linden wrote:   6 > I wonder why that didn't make it to the starlet lib?  @ As I recall, traditionally things in STARLET.MLB were consideredG 'public & supported', whereas LIB.MLB is considered 'internal to VMS -- D use at your own risk'.  UCB structures certainly are internal to VMS@ and have changed over time -- with support added for things likeB multi-path for example, so I'd expect to find these definitions inD LIB.REQ or LIB.MLB or whatever location is usual for the language in	 question.   F For some, it's always an interesting exercise to load a new version of; the OS and simply poke around in LIB.REQ to see what's been  changed/added/etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:51:26 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>, Subject: Re: Header file for UCB equivalents2 Message-ID: <cvfkdu$dfp$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>  . <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> wrote in message< news:1109086822.028771.41570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  B > As I recall, traditionally things in STARLET.MLB were consideredI > 'public & supported', whereas LIB.MLB is considered 'internal to VMS -- F > use at your own risk'.  UCB structures certainly are internal to VMSB > and have changed over time -- with support added for things likeD > multi-path for example, so I'd expect to find these definitions inF > LIB.REQ or LIB.MLB or whatever location is usual for the language in > question.   F Yes, although this is one of the corner cases, where the the structure@ as a whole isn't public but some of the bits are. I tend to use:  6 define/job decc$text_library sys$library:sys$lib_c.tlb   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:49:33 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>, Subject: Re: Header file for UCB equivalents0 Message-ID: <xoJSd.400$wK5.298@news.cpqcorp.net>  J More to the point, if you compile requires structure information from LIB, then youJ should be prepared to recompile for any major version of VMS.  If you have codeH that knows about any privleged, or non-public interface - this should be standardJ practice.  V8.2 was a major release (despite the .2 - it was the first 8.x Alpha G release and the first production I64 release).  We did make a number of  changes L in structures for new functionality, and to prepare for future enhancements.    . <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> wrote in message< news:1109086822.028771.41570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >  > Tom Linden wrote:  > 8 > > I wonder why that didn't make it to the starlet lib? > B > As I recall, traditionally things in STARLET.MLB were consideredI > 'public & supported', whereas LIB.MLB is considered 'internal to VMS -- F > use at your own risk'.  UCB structures certainly are internal to VMSB > and have changed over time -- with support added for things likeD > multi-path for example, so I'd expect to find these definitions inF > LIB.REQ or LIB.MLB or whatever location is usual for the language in > question.  > H > For some, it's always an interesting exercise to load a new version of= > the OS and simply poke around in LIB.REQ to see what's been  > changed/added/etc. >    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 02:54:54 -0800) From: carfer@gmail.com (Carlos Fernandez)  Subject: Re: HFLOAT to XFLOAT = Message-ID: <f4a8f670.0502220254.25090950@posting.google.com>   E Thanks for your reply, but I forgot to say I don't have a Vax machine B but Alpha instead, and as far as I understand, Macro-32 should not: understand H_float. Anyway, I don't manage well wih Macro.   Regards    Carlos Fernandez  r Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.61.0502211125560.22775@localhost.localdomain>.... > On Mon, 21 Feb 2005, Carlos Fernandez wrote: > H > > What I need is a simple file with data in Hfloat and the equivalent E > > in ASCII for testing this routine. Does any one provided me with   > > this sample? > C > Create yourself a macro-32 source file that contains things like:  >  >     .H_FLOATING  1.,2.,3.,4.  >     .H_FLOATING  3.14159265359B >     .H_FLOATING  1.111111111111111111111111111111111 ; 33 digits< >     .H_FLOATING  1.111111111111111111111111111111111E-4932; >     .H_FLOATING  1.111111111111111111111111111111111E4932  >     .H_FLOATING  0.84E-4932  >     .H_FLOATING  0.59E4932 >  > etc. > 0 > and use it as input data to your test routine. > I > You could also create some 128 bit fields and fill them with all 0s or  B > all 1s and make sure that they give sensible values (0 and -max ! > respectively) for both formats.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 07:03:10 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: HFLOAT to XFLOAT ( Message-ID: <opsmltfkjezgicya@hyrrokkin>  I On 22 Feb 2005 02:54:54 -0800, Carlos Fernandez <carfer@gmail.com> wrote:   G > Thanks for your reply, but I forgot to say I don't have a Vax machine D > but Alpha instead, and as far as I understand, Macro-32 should not< > understand H_float. Anyway, I don't manage well wih Macro.  9 But Alpha doesn't support H-Float, so what are you doing?  > 	 > Regards  >  > Carlos Fernandez > 4 > Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> wrote in message  C > news:<Pine.LNX.4.61.0502211125560.22775@localhost.localdomain>... / >> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005, Carlos Fernandez wrote:  >>H >> > What I need is a simple file with data in Hfloat and the equivalentE >> > in ASCII for testing this routine. Does any one provided me with  >> > this sample?  >>D >> Create yourself a macro-32 source file that contains things like: >> >>     .H_FLOATING  1.,2.,3.,4. ! >>     .H_FLOATING  3.14159265359 C >>     .H_FLOATING  1.111111111111111111111111111111111 ; 33 digits = >>     .H_FLOATING  1.111111111111111111111111111111111E-4932 < >>     .H_FLOATING  1.111111111111111111111111111111111E4932 >>     .H_FLOATING  0.84E-4932 >>     .H_FLOATING  0.59E4932  >> >> etc.  >>1 >> and use it as input data to your test routine.  >>I >> You could also create some 128 bit fields and fill them with all 0s or B >> all 1s and make sure that they give sensible values (0 and -max" >> respectively) for both formats.       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 11:25:54 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: HFLOAT to XFLOAT 3 Message-ID: <1CGOxVSdSXJA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <f4a8f670.0502220254.25090950@posting.google.com>, carfer@gmail.com (Carlos Fernandez) writes: G > Thanks for your reply, but I forgot to say I don't have a Vax machine D > but Alpha instead, and as far as I understand, Macro-32 should not< > understand H_float. Anyway, I don't manage well wih Macro.  D    Macro-32 certainly does understand H-float.  Macro-32 understands    everything a VAX can do.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 10:04:47 -0800) From: carfer@gmail.com (Carlos Fernandez)  Subject: Re: HFLOAT to XFLOAT = Message-ID: <f4a8f670.0502221004.7c3c51d9@posting.google.com>    It's quite easy.  A I'm porting a Vax development to Alpha. And I need to convert the  older Hfloat to Xfloat.   @ Unfortunately, the customer is far away and I don't have an easy access to the stored Vax data.   Regards    Carlos Fernandez   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:59:25 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> Subject: Re: HFLOAT to XFLOAT 0 Message-ID: <hiLSd.417$tP5.293@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:k > In article <f4a8f670.0502220254.25090950@posting.google.com>, carfer@gmail.com (Carlos Fernandez) writes:  > G >>Thanks for your reply, but I forgot to say I don't have a Vax machine D >>but Alpha instead, and as far as I understand, Macro-32 should not< >>understand H_float. Anyway, I don't manage well wih Macro. >  > F >    Macro-32 certainly does understand H-float.  Macro-32 understands >    everything a VAX can do.  >   B For the record, the Macro compiler on Alpha (and I64) does NOT do E everything that a VAX would do (including the .H_FLOATING directive).   0 (hiyall)$ write sys$output f$getsyi("arch_name") Alpha  (hiyall)$ type x.mar          .h_floating 1.0e10 
          .end  (hiyall)$ macro x             .h_floating 1.0e10  ^ ) %AMAC-E-UNRECSTMT, unrecognized statement 0 at line number 1 in file HIYALL$:[REAGAN]X.MAR;5            .h_floating 1.0e10  ^ ; %AMAC-E-PREVERROR, previous errors prevent further analysis 0 at line number 1 in file HIYALL$:[REAGAN]X.MAR;5     --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:35:59 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> Y Subject: Re: Itanium Montecito Wins Microprocessor Report Analysts' Choice  Awardfor Best 0 Message-ID: <jYKSd.413$QO5.231@news.cpqcorp.net>   JF Mezei wrote: H >>The Intel Montecito processor is the winner of our MPR AnalystsChoice* >>Award for Best Server Processor of 2004. > F > Sorry, but that sentence makes the whole article non-credible. SinceC > this chip is not available commercially on systems yet, and it is C > already 2005, how can such a virtual chip get an award for 2004 ?   >G > It may get some speed wins when it becomes availale commercially, but D > until that happens, it is wrong to talk of Montecito as if it wereR > "current". Remember  the frequent use of the word "will" earlier in the article.  E Microprocessor Report focuses on new developments, and often studies  G chips before they are commercially available. For example, Opteron won  9 the award last year before it was commercially available.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2005 23:50:47 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) * Subject: Re: Mounting disks during STARTUP= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0502212350.2c50fe50@posting.google.com>   _ Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> wrote in message news:<cvddu1$f42$1@news01.intel.com>...       [ S n i p . . . ]  M > > Without /INCLUDE but listing all members, the shadow set will mount with   > > all available disks. > G >      I don't believe that is true.  I believe that all listed members F > MUST be available, or the shadow set won't mount.  (I could be wrongG > on this as I haven't tried it recently, but that is my recollection.) C > In some circumstances, that's OK, or even desirable (not mounting G > the shadow set).  In others, it can extend the downtime and even make > > it difficult to get into the system to diagnose the problem.  F No, /INCLUDE does not require all former members to be present, but if< they are, they are included in the sadowset. You can specify1 /POLICY=REQUIRE_MEMBERS to obtain this behaviour.    Regards,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:25:13 +0100 , From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>$ Subject: Re: OpenVms decNet Routing!5 Message-ID: <1109071514.145481@proxy.dienste.wien.at>   
 "rob merrit:"   L > I have been trying to set a vms node from type nonrouting iv to routing iv
 > I tried: >  > ncp>def exec type routing iv > ncp>set exec state off > $@startnet >  > this doens't seem to do it > 	 > as well  > NCP>set exec type routing iv0 > %NCP-W-COMSTA, Component in wrong state , Node > 9 > either way I can not get the exec type to be routing iv   E Is this an Alpha? If so, forget it. There is no host-based routing in A phase IV for Alpha (and for DECnet-Plus, you need V7.1 or later).    Greetings, Ferry   --   Ing. Ferry Bolhar % Municipality of Vienna, Department 14  A-1010 Vienna / AUSTRIA  E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:43:28 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>? Subject: Re: OT: PC is crap (was Curly soon to be out of a job) . Message-ID: <QiJSd.399$X95.5@news.cpqcorp.net>  ) I guess your vantage point is pretty low.   7 "Dr. Dweeb" <5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> wrote in message ' news:cvdt9u$1vpe$1@news.cybercity.dk...  > FredK wrote: > > JF,  > > E > > The quote isn't "out of context".  It is certainly "fair game" to  > > question theH > > effectiveness of any public figure - CEO or politician.  It was pureH > > and simply an insult - and a highly sexist one.  Such comments - andG > > your inability to understand why it was highly inappropriate in any C > > forum - except perhaps in a drunken stupor at the bar with your % > > "friends" - says a lot about you.  > > F > > This isn't a bar, or a locker room.  I'm not the most "PC" kind ofF > > guy, and I may or may not agree with the actions of any CEO that I > > haveJ > > worked under - but the comment, and your defense of it...  Well, it is. > > no wonder that nobody takes you seriously. > >  > >  > F > F*** Fred, chill. Enhance your calm, or whatever works for you - try valium > or maybe mescaline.  >  > $ SET INCOHERENCE=ON > G > Your response says everything we need to know about how you have been 1 > programmed.  It is a question of vantage point.  > F > PC has passed its zenith, thankfully, and its positive contributionsJ > difficult to spot.  PC is about people being afraid to offend themselves and I > their own self annointed status as being an advanced, refined, correct, K > intelligent, etc. etc induhvidual - a form of zircle logic that can never # > result in a satisfactory outcome.  > G > However, short people are still short, brain-damaged people are still L > brain-damaged, some guys just have big masculine appendages and some womenJ > are better than others in the sack.  Modifying the language use does not > alter these facts. > E > The comment that started this bizarre detour was probably at worst, K > irrelevant to the point in question and could have best been left unsaid.  > F > On the other hand, I would bet my all my available cash ($3.27) that CarleyG > thinks she is a good lay, and so does Curley.  GQ Bob probably did as  well.nH > Larry E would definitely be there as well I should think.  It comes as partI > of the package of being a big swinging d***, even when not carrying the  > appendage. >a > $ SET INCOHERENCE=OFF  >a > ciao > Dr. Dweebu >p> > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message@ > > news:1107650357.e6fe05a5826f23df7e8d7a4861f4a492@teranews... > >> Neil Rieck wrote:H > >>> More than several people, from time to time, have behaved badly inI > >>> this news group. Aside from being generally uncivilized,  I find itaF > >>> odd that people would do while knowing every key stroke is being7 > >>> recorded for posterity at Google via www.deja.comO > >>I > >> People will learn that many many many comments can be and are quotede > >> out of context. > >>I > >> Personally, I saw that "offending" post in  context and saw it as ane' > >> insult/joke to Carly's competence.n > >>B > >> One needs to remember that this is a worldwide forum. In someG > >> cultures, some comments can be considered taboo and inappropriate,oI > >> while in other cultures, they are common jokes and comments that aree > >> never seen as "offensive".e > >>H > >> In the USA, it si now inappropriate to call someone "black" and oneE > >> must call him/her "african american", even if the person is fromaH > >> south pacific roots. Elsewhere in the world, one would never call aA > >> black person "african american". And calling someone "black"sF > >> wouldn't have the taboo/racist connotations that the USA gave theB > >> word (or whatever the USA gave "black" to make it politically > >> unacceptable).. > >>H > >> It seems that the rest of the world has underestimated the culturalI > >> shifts occuring in the USA if even such an innocuous comment/joke isn > >> now seen as offensive.d > >>H > >> High profile people are fair game for jokes. They are fair game forI > >> caricatures. And Carly is about as high profile as one can get for alH > >> CEO in the world. Bill gates is the butt of many jokes too, even in
 > >> the USA.l >n >C   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:48:34 +0200s- From: John Anderson<Anderson@poker-index.com>  Subject: Party Poker Million IV-3 Message-ID: <cvekdg$gcm$661@news2.netvision.net.il>-   <HTML> <HEAD>A <META NAME="GENERATOR" Content="Microsoft DHTML Editing Control">> <TITLE></TITLE>n </HEAD>h <BODY>/ <P><STRONG><FONT size=4>PartyPoker.com Million - IV</FONT></STRONG></P> <P></P>rL <P class=black align=justify><B><I>THE RECORDS HAVE BEEN SHATTERED!</I></B> N While the <A href="http://www.poker-index.com">PartyPoker.com </A>Million III D has been the biggest tournament the World Poker Tour has ever seen, N PartyPoker.com Million IV promises to be even <B>BIGGER</B> with an estimated  prize pool of over:</P>aN <P class=black align=justify><A href="http://www.poker-index.com"><IMG alt="" J hspace=0 src="http://www.partypoker.com/imagespromo/ppm4-6million-04.jpg"   align=baseline border=0></A></P>M <P class=black align=justify>Players who qualify for this event will get the dK chance to join Mike Sexton and Shana Hiatt on the fantastic PartyPoker.com tQ Million luxury cruise liner for 7 days and participate in the greatest event the  P poker world has ever seen.<BR><BR>OUR SEMI FINALS ARE NOW OVER. CONGRATULATIONS P TO THE WINNERS!!!<BR><BR>If you want to join the cruise you can now play the <A Q href="http://www.poker-index.com">PartyPoker.com Million IV Super Satellites</A> n daily.<BR></P> </BODY>i </HTML>h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 07:25:31 -0500s2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>. Subject: Re: Post Office as an HP VMS customer. Message-ID: <421ADE6B.13215.493B5AE@localhost>  . On 21 Feb 2005 at 17:13, C.W.Holeman II wrote:D > This lead me to the Postal Computing Environment Handbook with the? > demotion of OpenVMS described. I sent the following e-mail top2 > openvms-info@hp.com (VMS Marketing) 9-Feb-2005:   A I've forwarded your posting to the HP person who "owns" the USPS  C relationship.  He's told me that USPS has a large contract with HP s for VMS.  B Of course, my interest is helping USPS to move their VAX stuff to + CHARON-VAX...   [Shameless Plug (tm) alert]l  
 --Stan Quayleb Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363h3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USAo0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 08:23:32 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)F. Subject: Re: Post Office as an HP VMS customer3 Message-ID: <iAQbwRcfBY0i@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  c In article <421ADE6B.13215.493B5AE@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes: 0 > On 21 Feb 2005 at 17:13, C.W.Holeman II wrote:E >> This lead me to the Postal Computing Environment Handbook with thef@ >> demotion of OpenVMS described. I sent the following e-mail to3 >> openvms-info@hp.com (VMS Marketing) 9-Feb-2005: . > C > I've forwarded your posting to the HP person who "owns" the USPS gE > relationship.  He's told me that USPS has a large contract with HP f
 > for VMS. > D > Of course, my interest is helping USPS to move their VAX stuff to - > CHARON-VAX...   [Shameless Plug (tm) alert]o  % But the USPS also uses VMS on Alphas.l  J I know of at least one person who participates in this newsgroup and worksJ on those USPS VMS systems.  It might be that this person is not allowed toI make public statements about their configurations.  Such an attitude _is_w good for security.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:39:48 -0500 4 From: David R. Beatty <QWDavidER.TYBeattyUI@sas.com>. Subject: Re: Post Office as an HP VMS customer8 Message-ID: <bbkm115ocu10nmd7kf876ahbkm63mlpiip@4ax.com>  F On 22 Feb 2005 08:23:32 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  d >In article <421ADE6B.13215.493B5AE@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:1 >> On 21 Feb 2005 at 17:13, C.W.Holeman II wrote:oF >>> This lead me to the Postal Computing Environment Handbook with theA >>> demotion of OpenVMS described. I sent the following e-mail too4 >>> openvms-info@hp.com (VMS Marketing) 9-Feb-2005:  >> cD >> I've forwarded your posting to the HP person who "owns" the USPS F >> relationship.  He's told me that USPS has a large contract with HP  >> for VMS.y >> bE >> Of course, my interest is helping USPS to move their VAX stuff to t. >> CHARON-VAX...   [Shameless Plug (tm) alert] >n& >But the USPS also uses VMS on Alphas. >rK >I know of at least one person who participates in this newsgroup and worksgK >on those USPS VMS systems.  It might be that this person is not allowed to J >make public statements about their configurations.  Such an attitude _is_ >good for security.   ?     Larry, if you are referring to William W. Webb, he's now onu8 contract at Glaxo.  I was a USPS employee working on VMS< systems, but I've been at SAS for 5 1/2 years.  I think they9 are still running some VMS, but it's undergone some majory% changes in the years since I've left.    David Beatty   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 11:14:03 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r. Subject: Re: Post Office as an HP VMS customer3 Message-ID: <pwnklGWdYM$z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <bbkm115ocu10nmd7kf876ahbkm63mlpiip@4ax.com>, David R. Beatty <QWDavidER.TYBeattyUI@sas.com> writes:nH > On 22 Feb 2005 08:23:32 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > wrote:  L >>I know of at least one person who participates in this newsgroup and worksL >>on those USPS VMS systems.  It might be that this person is not allowed toK >>make public statements about their configurations.  Such an attitude _is_  >>good for security. > A >     Larry, if you are referring to William W. Webb, he's now ono: > contract at Glaxo.  I was a USPS employee working on VMS> > systems, but I've been at SAS for 5 1/2 years.  I think they; > are still running some VMS, but it's undergone some majork' > changes in the years since I've left.   G I was referring to a third person, who sent me email in response to thenA post and failed to disavow a continuing connection with the USPS.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:55:31 -0500 4 From: David R. Beatty <QWDavidER.TYBeattyUI@sas.com>. Subject: Re: Post Office as an HP VMS customer8 Message-ID: <gfsm119ageop5p5vq1h6r322i29141cfhc@4ax.com>  F On 22 Feb 2005 11:14:03 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  p >In article <bbkm115ocu10nmd7kf876ahbkm63mlpiip@4ax.com>, David R. Beatty <QWDavidER.TYBeattyUI@sas.com> writes:I >> On 22 Feb 2005 08:23:32 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i	 >> wrote:  >lM >>>I know of at least one person who participates in this newsgroup and works,M >>>on those USPS VMS systems.  It might be that this person is not allowed to L >>>make public statements about their configurations.  Such an attitude _is_ >>>good for security.k >> rB >>     Larry, if you are referring to William W. Webb, he's now on; >> contract at Glaxo.  I was a USPS employee working on VMSt? >> systems, but I've been at SAS for 5 1/2 years.  I think theyh< >> are still running some VMS, but it's undergone some major( >> changes in the years since I've left. >kH >I was referring to a third person, who sent me email in response to theB >post and failed to disavow a continuing connection with the USPS.       O.K.  2     Move along folks, nothing to see here ...  :-)   David Beatty   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 03:11:27 -0800. From: norbert.hanowski@dillinger.biz (Norbert) Subject: Samba  kids mel= Message-ID: <77ba41db.0502220311.11629387@posting.google.com>e   Hi,e3 I am trying Samba(2.2.8, VMS 7.3 WinXP, Linux PDC).t My Problem:iF If I copy files with XP-Eplorer from my PC to my home-dir on the AlphaA - somtimes it works fine, but sometimes i can't delete the copiedw files on the Alpha. E Especially files with german umlauts like ,  etc. make the trouble. F By deletition Windows say "input/output failure". After that, the fileE is sometimes invisible by Windows. And then Windows kids me. I deleteeD the file, it disappears only in Windows, not on the Alpha. If I open4 the directory again - ah, the file is visible again.C I go mad. I cannot fix the problem because sometimes it works fine.p   Has anybody a practical idea??   Thanks -   Norbert-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:15:08 -0500y- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>a Subject: Re: Samba  kids me81 Message-ID: <AuKdnQdyd5rDrYbfRVn-pg@adelphia.com>r   Norbert wrote: > Hi,e5 > I am trying Samba(2.2.8, VMS 7.3 WinXP, Linux PDC).   
 > My Problem: H > If I copy files with XP-Eplorer from my PC to my home-dir on the AlphaC > - somtimes it works fine, but sometimes i can't delete the copiedi > files on the Alpha. G > Especially files with german umlauts like ,  etc. make the trouble.nH > By deletition Windows say "input/output failure". After that, the fileG > is sometimes invisible by Windows. And then Windows kids me. I deletenF > the file, it disappears only in Windows, not on the Alpha. If I open6 > the directory again - ah, the file is visible again.E > I go mad. I cannot fix the problem because sometimes it works fine.v >   > Has anybody a practical idea??  G You did not specify the kit build date of your SAMBA 2.2.8 for OpenVMS.  The latest is 20050201.e  + http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/jyc/   I I would recommend either joining the samba-vms mailing list or gmane.org  I mirror and posting there if that does not fix the problem.  Instructions i$ can be found at http://www.samba.org  3 For I64 users, you may be better off starting with aH http://encompasserve.org/~malmberg/samba/ with the SAMBA 2.2.12 kit and 9 then merging in the latest changes from Jean-Yves Collot.0   -John5 wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyw   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:55:25 -0500y5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>.$ Subject: RE: Shark Tank mentions VMSQ Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D507CBCCCA@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>s  E how about the time we were having ra81's die at a rate of about one anF month.  come to find out they were in the datacenter about 3 feet awayH from the printers - every night the operator would come in to reload theH printers and of course just "drop" the paper boxes on the floor in front= of the printer, rather than placing them gently on the floor.o   -----Original Message-----/ From: DeanW [mailto:dean.woodward@gmail.com]=20 ' Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 5:54 PMu To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comw$ Subject: Re: Shark Tank mentions VMS    F On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:21:48 -0600, John Brandon <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote: (snip)F Stupid Human Tricks, Part the second:  I used to work for a fair sizedE (650+ retail branch) bank. The data center was required to do monthlyiC tests of backup generators and fire alarm systems. The alarms had apH bypass switch just inside the door to the platform. Procedure called forH a guard to hold that button in while the test was conducted, so the fireH department wouldn't get called out. They sent a new guy back, he said heE was holding the button in... Yup. chopped the power feed, initiated au+ Halon dump, and the fire department rolled.V  C Stupid Human Tricks, Chapter Three:  One of my customers (a largish-D correctional facility) also does monthly generator testing. One day,H they toggled the "test" switch, the generator fired up... and a radiatorE hose burst, spraying the mains relays with coolant and shorting them. ; Result: All the non-critical equipment stayed ON, while the F mission-critical generator-protected stuff powered DOWN. Took them sixE hours to get another relay box onsite and wired in before things liket doors and such worked again.    ) ------------------------------------------L The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and c=L onfidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s) n=L amed above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent =L responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any revi=L ew, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is str=L ictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the=L  sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original =L message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or instructio=L ns by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying out such o= rders and/or instructions.L If you, as the intended recipient of this message, the purpose of which is =L to inform and update our clients, prospects and consultants of developments=L  relating to our services and products, would not like to receive further e=L -mail correspondence from the sender, please "reply" to the sender indicati=L ng your wishes.  In the U.S.: 1345 Avenue of the Americas, New York, NY 101= 05.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:00:25 +0000.) From: Tom Wade <nospam@picard.eurokom.ie>e$ Subject: Re: Shark Tank mentions VMS2 Message-ID: <_UGSd.48193$Z14.34704@news.indigo.ie>   Main, Kerry wrote:   > E > That is until a few incidents were reported whereby operaters wouldmB > enter ^P to get to the console and then type "H" for "help" ....  J My favorite story was of the operator who was too lazy to walk over to theG development machine's console to shut it down.  Instead, he logged intoDM the production machine's console, did a SET HOST followed by CTRL/P and HALT.e  9 ---------------------------------------------------------t@ Tom Wade                 | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie3 EuroKom                  | Tel:   +353 (1) 296-9696u3 A2, Nutgrove Office Park | Fax:   +353 (1) 296-9697gL Rathfarnham              | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimer            G Dublin 14                | Tip:   "Friends don't let friends do Unix !"- Ireland-   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 13:36:17 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>:$ Subject: Re: Shark Tank mentions VMS. Message-ID: <mddr7j8jvby.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  7 "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:e  G > how about the time we were having ra81's die at a rate of about one atH > month.  come to find out they were in the datacenter about 3 feet awayJ > from the printers - every night the operator would come in to reload theJ > printers and of course just "drop" the paper boxes on the floor in front? > of the printer, rather than placing them gently on the floor.o  " That operator was blamed unfairly!  O RA81s died regularly in our DEC-20 shop[1] as well--MTBF was about 6 months and0L we had 6 of 'em, so we replaced an HDA about once a month.  They were just a bad product.  M The printers were more than 60 feet away from the disks, two rooms over, withbM good isolation of the flooring, so dropping a box of paper couldn't have been.) the reason for these crashes at our site.r  L [1] 4-system MSCP cluster:  Two HSC-50s, 3 2065s, 1 SC-30M, and two racks of%     RA81s.  Stanford LOTS, 1986-1991.T   -- eL Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 01:09:15 -0800 From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.ukd@ Subject: Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2C Message-ID: <1109063355.800465.108880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>l  D Under V1.3-1 (when the HP logo was introduced) there was a change toA the traditional desktop to use a "DECDTLOGO.PM" file for the logoa( rather than compile in the default logo.  F Therefore, there are now two, identical (?), DECDTLOGO.PM files in theA DECwindows distribution. One in [DECW$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM] and one in0( [CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C].  F It wouldn't surprise me to discover that one is used for the login boxA and the other for the lock screen. Have you tried replacing both??   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2005 01:09:18 -0800 From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk-@ Subject: Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2C Message-ID: <1109063358.637188.180710@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>0  D Under V1.3-1 (when the HP logo was introduced) there was a change toA the traditional desktop to use a "DECDTLOGO.PM" file for the logor( rather than compile in the default logo.  F Therefore, there are now two, identical (?), DECDTLOGO.PM files in theA DECwindows distribution. One in [DECW$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM] and one ina( [CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C].  F It wouldn't surprise me to discover that one is used for the login boxA and the other for the lock screen. Have you tried replacing both?r   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:23:16 -0500e' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>a@ Subject: RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F697@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----G > From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk [mailto:martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk]=20f! > Sent: February 22, 2005 4:09 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComtB > Subject: Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 >=20F > Under V1.3-1 (when the HP logo was introduced) there was a change toC > the traditional desktop to use a "DECDTLOGO.PM" file for the logo * > rather than compile in the default logo. >=20H > Therefore, there are now two, identical (?), DECDTLOGO.PM files in theC > DECwindows distribution. One in [DECW$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM] and one ino* > [CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]. >=20H > It wouldn't surprise me to discover that one is used for the login boxC > and the other for the lock screen. Have you tried replacing both?w >=20 > Martin Kirby >=20 >=20  B Just did quick test on my home Alpha 4100 system running VMS V8.2.   1. Copied QUISP.PM to=20F SYS$COMMON:[DECW$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM]DECDTLOGO.PM and no change. The logon logo was still HP default.   2. Copied QUISP.PM to=20E SYS$COMMON:[CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]DECDTLOGO.PM and it G works ok i.e. the default logon logo changed from HP to the cute littleI propeller head cartoon.r  A 3. When screen lock comes on, the new propeller head logo is also 
 displayed.  @ 4. Changed SYS$COMMON:[DECW$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM]DECDTLOGO.PM back toD original file and there was no change i.e. the logon and screen lock' logo remained as the cartoon character.r  
 5. ChangedF SYS$COMMON:[CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]DECDTLOGO.PM back toG original HP logo file and both screen lock and logon logo's are back tov HP default logo's.  J Based on above, I would conclude that for the CDE environment, the file=20A SYS$COMMON:[CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]DECDTLOGO.PM=20 G is what is used for both logon and screen lock logo's and it appears to  work ok - at least on my Alpha.'   RegardsI  
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantV HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660u Fax: 613-591-4477e kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:46:55 -0500u. From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>@ Subject: Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2B Message-ID: <1109082888.813101c0abd071b7967e16eacff2b2c3@teranews>  ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:-H > part of this is that you can't replace it either.  No matter what I'veH > put in it's place, there is no logo displayed unless it is the HP logo$ > in the shipping DECDTLOGO.PM file.  B Have you tried putting an alternate file with the exact same pixel dimensions and colour depth ?a  H I know this may be stupid, but would the file be installed by any chanceH ? (which would get the software to access the original version no matterK what you put in place, until you rebooted the system a few years from now).0   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:18:02 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG@ Subject: RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.20 Message-ID: <00A3FC58.A327ECE0@SendSpamHere.ORG>  | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F697@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >. >> -----Original Message-----3H >> From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk [mailto:martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk]=20" >> Sent: February 22, 2005 4:09 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComC >> Subject: Re: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2T >>=208G >> Under V1.3-1 (when the HP logo was introduced) there was a change tonD >> the traditional desktop to use a "DECDTLOGO.PM" file for the logo+ >> rather than compile in the default logo.l >>=20dI >> Therefore, there are now two, identical (?), DECDTLOGO.PM files in the D >> DECwindows distribution. One in [DECW$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM] and one in+ >> [CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C].@ >>=20cI >> It wouldn't surprise me to discover that one is used for the login boxiD >> and the other for the lock screen. Have you tried replacing both? >>=20e >> Martin Kirbyr >>=20e >>=20t >fC >Just did quick test on my home Alpha 4100 system running VMS V8.2.  >  >1. Copied QUISP.PM to=20hG >SYS$COMMON:[DECW$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM]DECDTLOGO.PM and no change. The logon  >logo was still HP default.l >, >2. Copied QUISP.PM to=20 F >SYS$COMMON:[CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]DECDTLOGO.PM and itH >works ok i.e. the default logon logo changed from HP to the cute little >propeller head cartoon. >,B >3. When screen lock comes on, the new propeller head logo is also >displayed.h >tA >4. Changed SYS$COMMON:[DECW$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM]DECDTLOGO.PM back toiE >original file and there was no change i.e. the logon and screen locko( >logo remained as the cartoon character. >h >5. Changed>G >SYS$COMMON:[CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]DECDTLOGO.PM back to>H >original HP logo file and both screen lock and logon logo's are back to >HP default logo's.1 >1K >Based on above, I would conclude that for the CDE environment, the file=201B >SYS$COMMON:[CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]DECDTLOGO.PM=20H >is what is used for both logon and screen lock logo's and it appears to  >work ok - at least on my Alpha.  H Excellent news Kerry.  So it appears that only Itanium is "broken".  Try5 your tests performed as outlined above on an Itanium.t   -- fK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM:            o5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" b   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:41:19 -0500e' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>e@ Subject: RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F6A4@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----E > From: VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG]=20a" > Sent: February 22, 2005 11:18 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComHB > Subject: RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 >=20  	 [snip...]    > >.7 > >Based on above, I would conclude that for the CDE=20- > environment, the file=3D20F > >SYS$COMMON:[CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]DECDTLOGO.PM=3D20B > >is what is used for both logon and screen lock logo's and it=20 > appears to" > >work ok - at least on my Alpha. >=20> > Excellent news Kerry.  So it appears that only Itanium is=20 > "broken".  Try7 > your tests performed as outlined above on an Itanium.n >=20 > --=20a7 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker  =20l > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >           =20-  3 Sure, how about shipping your Itanium system to me?a   :-)h   Regards.  
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantA HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660p Fax: 613-591-4477o kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:43:01 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG@ Subject: RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.20 Message-ID: <00A3FC64.81F69F19@SendSpamHere.ORG>  | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F6A4@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: {...snip...} >a4 >Sure, how about shipping your Itanium system to me?  6 As an ambassador, you don't have access to an Itanium?    I I'll bring mine along to the bootcamp for you (assuming you'll be there).a     -- 1K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMA            M5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" Y   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:11:58 -0500,' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> @ Subject: RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F6C2@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----E > From: VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG]=20r" > Sent: February 22, 2005 12:43 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.CompB > Subject: RE: substituting decdtlogo.pm no longer works with V8.2 >=20 > In article=20r@ > <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F6A4@tayexc19.americas.cpqc5 > orp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:r > {...snip...} > >.6 > >Sure, how about shipping your Itanium system to me? >=208 > As an ambassador, you don't have access to an Itanium? >=20  = Do not have one yet in my home office. [Working on it though]   0 Could get one at work, but that's a drive etc ..   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660o Fax: 613-591-4477a kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:20:33 +0100i0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customers-B Message-ID: <421b31a2$0$13225$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   Bill Todd wrote: > Kenneth Farmer wrote:  >  > .... > : >> Everyone wanted to see VMS mentioned more in the press. >  > J > Actually, that's not true:  at least some of us wanted to see *HP* be a K > lot more active in promoting and supporting VMS - both as an act of good g< > faith and as a clear indication of long-term 'commitment'.  F The two actions are not mutually exclusive. As I already mentioned in @ another posting, none of us are stopping HP from professionally 3 marketing the OpenVMS platform to a wider audience.   H > In the presence of such action from HP, customer support in the press J > would be a good thing.  In the absence of such action from HP, customer K > support in the press would be more apt to obscure the very real concerns aH > any new customers should have about its owner's intentions - a rather J > selfish act by those already committed to VMS to try to expand interest G > in the product (in the hope that its owner would *finally* show some aK > itself) regardless of the risk they might be exposing others to by doing   > so.  >  > - bill  H I haven't read that any of the interviewed customers made any claims or G promises regarding HP's commitment yet. The interviewed customers, who  I have correctly identified themselves as such (no hidden agendas), appear  = to generally be giving balanced (some even pointing out some aI disadvantages) but mostly favorable opinions which they are entitled to. CE OpenVMS has so many excellent qualities and advantages that we don't  F need to worry about being open to criticism (most of which is anyways G not of a technical nature). This honesty is to be encouraged, and also hC to be expected from the journalist writing the article as well. We rH believe the OpenVMS platform and its associated technologies deserve as F big a lobby as it's customers are willing to support! Nobody is being A dishonest in promoting "the technology they are also using", the  I converse would be dishonest. There is nothing selfish of these customers wA wanting to share the secret of their stable, scalable, reliable, wJ available, disaster tolerant and ingeniously sophisticated infrastructure.  I As to HP's true commitment to OpenVMS, it is expected of each reader (as tD always) to bring their own healthy critical thinking and decide for H themselves what the risk is. Nobody is trying to fool anybody here. The F best guarantee of OpenVMS commitment by HP is market success. All the G technological components for that success are already there, providing i? the knowledge of their existence and an understanding of their  H usefulness to a wider audience will do a lot to solve the non-technical 3 deficiencies so often discussed in this news-group.t  F If this guerilla marketing offensive starts to gain some traction, HP F may find itself in the increasingly difficult situation of explaining G publicly why it failed to tell it's other customers that it had a much  E better enterprise solution for their problems than the one which was ,G pushed on them. Or needing to explain to it's share holders why it has mI failed to intensively market a vastly superior solution for many of it's yE customers, which also happens to have a much healthier profit margin.q  D So, if you think about it. We may have many of the same goals, just  slightly different means.o   Cheers!c   Keith Cayemberg   E PS - for those of you who have come a little later to the party. Ken nG Farmer of the independent OpenVMS.ORG is providing several promotional c- web pages for participating in this effort...   & OpenVMS Trade Press Participation Page+ http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Press    OpenVMS Taglines Pagel. http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Taglines   OpenVMS Logos Page+ http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Logoss   OpenVMS PearlsC http://www.openvms.org/search.php?query=Pearl&what=stories&limit=50m   OpenVMS Promotional Ideas Forumr* http://www.openvms.org/phorum/list.php?f=7   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 06:56:23 -0800h# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>bK Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customers ( Message-ID: <opsmls39mvzgicya@hyrrokkin>  5 On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:20:33 +0100, Keith Cayemberg  o! <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote:e   > Bill Todd wrote: >> Kenneth Farmer wrote: >>  .... >>; >>> Everyone wanted to see VMS mentioned more in the press. L >>   Actually, that's not true:  at least some of us wanted to see *HP* be  J >> a lot more active in promoting and supporting VMS - both as an act of  B >> good faith and as a clear indication of long-term 'commitment'. >lI > The two actions are not mutually exclusive. As I already mentioned in  dC > another posting, none of us are stopping HP from professionally  s5 > marketing the OpenVMS platform to a wider audience.d >.J >> In the presence of such action from HP, customer support in the press  L >> would be a good thing.  In the absence of such action from HP, customer  D >> support in the press would be more apt to obscure the very real  L >> concerns any new customers should have about its owner's intentions - a  J >> rather selfish act by those already committed to VMS to try to expand  H >> interest in the product (in the hope that its owner would *finally*  K >> show some itself) regardless of the risk they might be exposing others  p >> to by doing so.
 >>  - bill >dK > I haven't read that any of the interviewed customers made any claims or   J > promises regarding HP's commitment yet. The interviewed customers, who  L > have correctly identified themselves as such (no hidden agendas), appear  @ > to generally be giving balanced (some even pointing out some  L > disadvantages) but mostly favorable opinions which they are entitled to.  H > OpenVMS has so many excellent qualities and advantages that we don't  I > need to worry about being open to criticism (most of which is anyways  nJ > not of a technical nature). This honesty is to be encouraged, and also  F > to be expected from the journalist writing the article as well. We  K > believe the OpenVMS platform and its associated technologies deserve as   I > big a lobby as it's customers are willing to support! Nobody is being  -D > dishonest in promoting "the technology they are also using", the  L > converse would be dishonest. There is nothing selfish of these customers  D > wanting to share the secret of their stable, scalable, reliable,  > > available, disaster tolerant and ingeniously sophisticated   > infrastructure.T >EL > As to HP's true commitment to OpenVMS, it is expected of each reader (as  G > always) to bring their own healthy critical thinking and decide for  SK > themselves what the risk is. Nobody is trying to fool anybody here. The  "I > best guarantee of OpenVMS commitment by HP is market success. All the   J > technological components for that success are already there, providing  B > the knowledge of their existence and an understanding of their  K > usefulness to a wider audience will do a lot to solve the non-technical  05 > deficiencies so often discussed in this news-group.o  J Keith, what I find baffling is HP's cavalier, benign neglect.  Fiscal 2004J was almost identical YOY to Fiscal 2003 turning in $4,000 Million in salesK and gross profit of $867 Million, which is about 20% gross margin, second    onlyI to printers, I guess  (which market Dell is of course busily munching on).H Why doesn't this not stand out to management?  Why is this not fiduciary/ dereliction?  What am I missing or fail to see?    >tI > If this guerilla marketing offensive starts to gain some traction, HP  aI > may find itself in the increasingly difficult situation of explaining  -J > publicly why it failed to tell it's other customers that it had a much  H > better enterprise solution for their problems than the one which was  J > pushed on them. Or needing to explain to it's share holders why it has  L > failed to intensively market a vastly superior solution for many of it's  G > customers, which also happens to have a much healthier profit margin.a >tG > So, if you think about it. We may have many of the same goals, just  y > slightly different means.w >"	 > Cheers!S >  > Keith Cayemberg' >oH > PS - for those of you who have come a little later to the party. Ken  J > Farmer of the independent OpenVMS.ORG is providing several promotional  / > web pages for participating in this effort...C >u( > OpenVMS Trade Press Participation Page- > http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Pressn >t > OpenVMS Taglines Page70 > http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Taglines >c > OpenVMS Logos Page- > http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Logos6 >  > OpenVMS PearlsE > http://www.openvms.org/search.php?query=Pearl&what=stories&limit=50t >r! > OpenVMS Promotional Ideas Forume, > http://www.openvms.org/phorum/list.php?f=7       -- lC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:14:57 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customersi= Message-ID: <WbOdnb68O5nv0YbfRVn-iw@metrocastcablevision.com>y   Keith Cayemberg wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: >  >> Kenneth Farmer wrote: >> >> ....P >>; >>> Everyone wanted to see VMS mentioned more in the press.  >> >> >>I >> Actually, that's not true:  at least some of us wanted to see *HP* be  I >> a lot more active in promoting and supporting VMS - both as an act of tB >> good faith and as a clear indication of long-term 'commitment'. >  > - > The two actions are not mutually exclusive.l  I And I did not say they were:  I simply observed that Ken's statement was e	 not true.d   ...c  I >> In the presence of such action from HP, customer support in the press 0B >> would be a good thing.  In the absence of such action from HP, G >> customer support in the press would be more apt to obscure the very 6A >> real concerns any new customers should have about its owner's SJ >> intentions - a rather selfish act by those already committed to VMS to E >> try to expand interest in the product (in the hope that its owner  J >> would *finally* show some itself) regardless of the risk they might be " >> exposing others to by doing so. >>	 >> - billi >  > J > I haven't read that any of the interviewed customers made any claims or ) > promises regarding HP's commitment yet.o   That was not my point.      The interviewed customers, whoK > have correctly identified themselves as such (no hidden agendas), appear V? > to generally be giving balanced (some even pointing out some iK > disadvantages) but mostly favorable opinions which they are entitled to. e  C If the opinions did not include reference to HP's distinct lack of pG interest in the product, they did not qualify as 'balanced' - any more  @ than concentrating only on that point without also noting VMS's  strengths would.   ...t     Nobody is beingdC > dishonest in promoting "the technology they are also using", the l > converse would be dishonest.  D You don't seem to have a very good grasp of the concept of honesty: G depending on one's definition providing information selectively may or uH may not qualify as being somewhat dishonest, but in no event does one's D *choice* of information affect that assessment when the information B being conveyed has comparable importance to the information being  suppressed.i  H Of course, since I in no way suggested that anyone was being dishonest, H I'm not sure what your point would have been even if its exposition had  been better formed.t  -   There is nothing selfish of these customers C > wanting to share the secret of their stable, scalable, reliable, oL > available, disaster tolerant and ingeniously sophisticated infrastructure.  D Yes, there is - if the intent is to try to make VMS more popular by D emphasizing its strengths while remaining quiet about its potential E risks (and it sounds as if this is *precisely* the intent, and quite iF clearly the behavior being demonstrated even if one wishes to quibble ! about its underlying motivation).e   > K > As to HP's true commitment to OpenVMS, it is expected of each reader (as dF > always) to bring their own healthy critical thinking and decide for E > themselves what the risk is. Nobody is trying to fool anybody here.a  F Sounds like the kind of bullshit rationalization that many marketeers H employ (at least those who have retained at least some marginal if only ) theoretical acquaintance with integrity).      TheR? > best guarantee of OpenVMS commitment by HP is market success.5  6 Exactly the mind-set that I suggested was behind this.  	   All thenI > technological components for that success are already there, providing 6A > the knowledge of their existence and an understanding of their oJ > usefulness to a wider audience will do a lot to solve the non-technical 5 > deficiencies so often discussed in this news-group.e  A In your opinion.  But *even if that opinion is valid* (itself an VH eminently debatable point), you seem to feel free to try to suck others I into committing their businesses to VMS to further your own ends in this o8 area without mentioning the accompanying potential risk.   ...   F > So, if you think about it. We may have many of the same goals, just  > slightly different means.e   And very different ethics.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:22:29 -0500g( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customersn= Message-ID: <NL2dnaMiGqyr04bfRVn-oQ@metrocastcablevision.com>    Tom Linden wrote:o   ...s      Fiscal 2004L > was almost identical YOY to Fiscal 2003 turning in $4,000 Million in sales" > and gross profit of $867 Million  G I suspect I'm not the only one here who would be interested in exactly b6 what those figures represent and where they came from.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:05:40 -0800i# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>iK Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customersp( Message-ID: <opsmlwbqe1zgicya@hyrrokkin>  H On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:22:29 -0500, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>   wrote:   > Tom Linden wrote:  >e > ...  >  >    Fiscal 2004I >> was almost identical YOY to Fiscal 2003 turning in $4,000 Million in  s >> sales# >> and gross profit of $867 Million  >nJ > I suspect I'm not the only one here who would be interested in exactly  8 > what those figures represent and where they came from.  H The contribution of VMS, licenses, service, sales.  There was actually aD slight decrease in reveues and slight increase in gross profit, YOY. Deep Throat. >n > - bill       -- :C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:15:34 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>) Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distributioni/ Message-ID: <WMJSd.403$nL5.68@news.cpqcorp.net>o   Tom Linden wrote:eK > On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:56:42 GMT, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote:l >  >> RE: code-bloat. >>E >> Here's another comparison.  The Pascal compiler on Alpha is about hG >> 16750  blocks in size, 9603 pagelets of instructions.  On I64, same dF >> front-end,  same GEM (give or take) is 36800 blocks in size, 23777  >> pagelets of  instructions.  >> >>' > Just complete the comparison, on VAX?n >  >   E On VAX, same front-end, VASTLY DIFFERENT AND SIMPLER CODE GENERATOR, a3 1480 blocks in size, 1354 pagelets of instructions.    -- M John ReaganO/ HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leaderp Hewlett-Packard Companys   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:00:52 +0000a- From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> ) Subject: Re: VMS 8.2 Itanium Distributione8 Message-ID: <a1pm119an29rtke6drgqva751upj905tbj@4ax.com>  I On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 17:15:34 GMT, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote:t   >Tom Linden wrote:L >> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:56:42 GMT, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote: >> l >>> RE: code-bloat.i >>>OF >>> Here's another comparison.  The Pascal compiler on Alpha is about H >>> 16750  blocks in size, 9603 pagelets of instructions.  On I64, same G >>> front-end,  same GEM (give or take) is 36800 blocks in size, 23777 D >>> pagelets of  instructions. >>>s >>>o( >> Just complete the comparison, on VAX? > F >On VAX, same front-end, VASTLY DIFFERENT AND SIMPLER CODE GENERATOR, 4 >1480 blocks in size, 1354 pagelets of instructions.  + Are you ahead of, or behind, Moore's Law ?!n  K [The only data point that sticks in my mind from long long ago is a FortraniJ application that used to link across 3 main object libraries in 50 secondsG dead on an 11/780.  When we eventually upgraded to an 8650 - 6 vups - IeK recall being somewhat impressed that link-time fell to 8.something seconds. L The image was just under 1000 blocks on disk.  I rather doubt if anything of2 that size would link so fast now (caching aside).]   -- e4 I had my head examined.  They didn't find ANYTHING!    Mail john rather than nospam...q   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.106 ************************H bypass switch just inside the door to the platform. Procedure called forH a guard to hold that button in while thep_noarb.pas  yf   I                                 vm)   l:'                     
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JUMP V4.2 [14-AUG-2002] -- Change username, etc., to match another user
Written by Jonathan Ridler <jump-enquiries@unimelb.edu.au>

Runs on both OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha.

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