1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 23 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 108       Contents:# Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ) Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc) ) Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc) ) Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc) ) Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc) ) Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc)  Re: HFLOAT to XFLOAT* RE: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?* Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?* Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?* Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?* Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?* Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?* Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?* Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?* Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?* Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?* Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?* Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?< Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request? Re: JRE Problem on OpenVMS/ London Stock Exchange slowing moving to Windows 3 Re: London Stock Exchange slowing moving to Windows = Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ... ( Q: DEC Special Graphics escape sequences, Re: Q: DEC Special Graphics escape sequences, Re: Q: DEC Special Graphics escape sequences/ Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ?  Re: Shark Tank mentions VMS  Re: Shark Tank mentions VMS  SPAMCOP reporting 0 Taming the ever resizing XmFileSelectionDialog ?4 Re: Taming the ever resizing XmFileSelectionDialog ?4 Re: Taming the ever resizing XmFileSelectionDialog ?4 Re: Taming the ever resizing XmFileSelectionDialog ?  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit centerB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customers6 [Change topic] How to communicate with TL812 - use MRU: Re: [Change topic] How to communicate with TL812 - use MRU0 [OT]: Microsoft tries to patent a BASIC operator4 Re: [OT]: Microsoft tries to patent a BASIC operator4 Re: [OT]: Microsoft tries to patent a BASIC operator  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:37:32 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> , Subject: Checking for "file open for write".' Message-ID: <421C4EDC.61114EDC@aaa.com>    Hi.   . (Sorry, but this is purily techinical... :-) )  B I'm looking for a method to "see" that a file is opened for write.7 I have a polling batch job that looks for FTP'ed files. @ I have to detect if the file is still opened by the FTP session.: I know about detecting this by trying an operation such as8 OPEN on the file and catching the error, but I'm looking8 for something a little more "correct", such as a lexical
 or something.    Any thoughts ?  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:07:28 +0100 A From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder.nospam@volkswagen.de> 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".) Message-ID: <cvhkki$4uk6@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>    Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > Hi.  > 0 > (Sorry, but this is purily techinical... :-) ) > D > I'm looking for a method to "see" that a file is opened for write.9 > I have a polling batch job that looks for FTP'ed files. B > I have to detect if the file is still opened by the FTP session.< > I know about detecting this by trying an operation such as: > OPEN on the file and catching the error, but I'm looking: > for something a little more "correct", such as a lexical > or something.  >  > Any thoughts ? >  > Jan-Erik.   G On the FREEWARE V5.0 kit is a utikity FILES_INFO, which gets this info.  Perhaps it is a starter.  	 mfg Kalle    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:31:45 +0100 , From: "Klaq" <aklaq@WYWAL.TO.poczta.onet.pl>0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".0 Message-ID: <cvhlsf$foa$1@localhost.localdomain>  C Uzytkownik "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> napisal w wiadomosci  ! news:421C4EDC.61114EDC@aaa.com...  > Hi.  > 0 > (Sorry, but this is purily techinical... :-) ) > D > I'm looking for a method to "see" that a file is opened for write.9 > I have a polling batch job that looks for FTP'ed files. B > I have to detect if the file is still opened by the FTP session.< > I know about detecting this by trying an operation such as: > OPEN on the file and catching the error, but I'm looking: > for something a little more "correct", such as a lexical > or something.  >  > Any thoughts ? >  > Jan-Erik.  Hi, @ I use lexical function F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES with "LOCKED" parameter example:: $      IF (.NOT.F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES("''FilePath'","LOCKED")) $      THEN 7 $          WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''FilePath' is not locked"  $      ENDIF   Andrew     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:10:34 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".' Message-ID: <421C64AA.AF8610B6@aaa.com>    Klaq wrote:  >  > Hi, B > I use lexical function F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES with "LOCKED" parameter
 > example:< > $      IF (.NOT.F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES("''FilePath'","LOCKED"))
 > $      THEN 9 > $          WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''FilePath' is not locked"  > $      ENDIF >  > Andrew  # Hm, when I do this in one session :    $ cre test.fil asdfg  dgad fgad fg       [No ctrl-Z !]  - then I get the following in another session :   9 $ write sys$output f$file_attributes("test.fil","locked") * %SYSTEM-W-ACCONFLICT, file access conflict  \test.fil\   6 $ file_locked = f$file_attributes("test.fil","locked")* %SYSTEM-W-ACCONFLICT, file access conflict  \test.fil\   B So it seems as the lexical can't "read" a file opened for write !?  ' This is on OpenVMS V7.3-2 Alpha, b.t.w.   	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:19:00 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".' Message-ID: <421C66A4.20F70119@aaa.com>    Karl Rohwedder wrote:  > I > On the FREEWARE V5.0 kit is a utikity FILES_INFO, which gets this info.  > Perhaps it is a starter. >  > mfg Kalle    Hi.   # Checked the aaareadme, found this :   E "Warning: elevated privileges are required; this program does contain 4  kernel-mode code to access system data structures."  @ I'm not sure that is the right tool (for me), but thanks anyway.   Regards,	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 07:21:42 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".3 Message-ID: <WdyWD5NGB0Ja@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <cvhlsf$foa$1@localhost.localdomain>, "Klaq" <aklaq@WYWAL.TO.poczta.onet.pl> writes: E > Uzytkownik "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> napisal w wiadomosci  # > news:421C4EDC.61114EDC@aaa.com...  >> Hi. >>1 >> (Sorry, but this is purily techinical... :-) )  >>E >> I'm looking for a method to "see" that a file is opened for write. : >> I have a polling batch job that looks for FTP'ed files.C >> I have to detect if the file is still opened by the FTP session. = >> I know about detecting this by trying an operation such as ; >> OPEN on the file and catching the error, but I'm looking ; >> for something a little more "correct", such as a lexical  >> or something. >> >> Any thoughts ?  >> >> Jan-Erik. > Hi, B > I use lexical function F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES with "LOCKED" parameter
 > example:< > $      IF (.NOT.F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES("''FilePath'","LOCKED"))
 > $      THEN 9 > $          WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''FilePath' is not locked"  > $      ENDIF  > That code looks for a "deaccess lock" and fails if the file is> merely write-locked.  You'll essentially never ever see a file that is "deaccess locked".  @ One approach (not fully tested for quality control purposes) is:  $ $! Test whether file is write-locked $! P1 = file name  $  $       set noon$ $       on control_Y then goto next3/ $       close /error=next1 write_lock_test_file  $ next1:D $       open /error=next2 write_lock_test_file 'P1 /read /share=read $ next2:@ $       status = $status .and. %x0fffffff       ! Mask off flags $       if status .eq. %x1828a# $       then           ! %RMS-E-FLK 4 $           write sys$output "''p1' is write locked" $           goto next3
 $       endif  $       if status .eq. %x18292# $       then           ! %RMS-E-FNF 2 $           write sys$output "''p1' was not found" $           goto next3
 $       endif  $       if .not. status * $       then            ! Some other issueN $           write sys$output "''p1' could not be opened, ''F$MESSAGE(status)'" $           goto next3
 $       endif 4 $       write sys$Output "''p1' is not write locked" $ next3:/ $       close /error=next4 write_lock_test_file  $ next4: $       exit 1   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 05:21:31 -0800! From: Jesse.Chambless@acs-inc.com 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".B Message-ID: <1109164891.709074.81110@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Hello,   I use the following:  ) $ cdt = f$file_attributes("''lin'","CDT")  $ if $status .eqs. "%X00030001"     ? The X00030001 indicates the file is still in use.  Works great.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:48:58 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".- Message-ID: <cvi1lt$2rpg$1@news.cybercity.dk>    Klaq wrote: E > Uzytkownik "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> napisal w wiadomosci  # > news:421C4EDC.61114EDC@aaa.com...  >  >>Hi.  >>0 >>(Sorry, but this is purily techinical... :-) ) >>D >>I'm looking for a method to "see" that a file is opened for write.9 >>I have a polling batch job that looks for FTP'ed files. B >>I have to detect if the file is still opened by the FTP session.< >>I know about detecting this by trying an operation such as: >>OPEN on the file and catching the error, but I'm looking: >>for something a little more "correct", such as a lexical >>or something.  >> >>Any thoughts ? >> >>Jan-Erik.  >  > Hi, B > I use lexical function F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES with "LOCKED" parameter
 > example:< > $      IF (.NOT.F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES("''FilePath'","LOCKED"))
 > $      THEN 9 > $          WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''FilePath' is not locked"  > $      ENDIF > 	 > Andrew    I I think that checks a bit that is set on the file, and that has not been  6 used since Digital dropped PDP-11 & RSX compatebility.  F I once wrote a program to check who locks a file.  It is difficult to I do.  In a cluster there is no othe way than checkink WCB blocks that are  I linked to the FCB.  That will give you the users on the current machine.  F   There is no way of knowning who locked the file on an other machine.  G Here is what Jan Erik could do.  Get the file statistics block that is  I available through the ACP QIO interface.  (Use LIB$FIND_FILE to open the  I channel.)  In that block there is a reference for the lock, that is used  F for synchronizing access to the file on in a cluster.  Call GetLKI on G that lock to get information on that locks have been taken out on that  D file.  The lock is a kernel mode lock, so you may have to change to  kernel mode to do the trick.  I This will not cause any access conflicts.  In fact, the DIR command used  H the ACP QIO interface in the old days, where you got listings of VMS on ; micro fiches.  I doubt Digital/Compaq/HP have changed that.   G You may think it is easier to generate the name of the lock your self,  F but I cannot recomend it.  You have to be sure that you use the right F name for the device, and that might have been changed if somebody has G used set vol/label, and the file id may take up 4 or 6 bytes depending   on what is needed.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 08:01:36 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".3 Message-ID: <CZubwI+OSond@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <1109164891.709074.81110@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, Jesse.Chambless@acs-inc.com writes: > Hello, >  > I use the following: > + > $ cdt = f$file_attributes("''lin'","CDT") ! > $ if $status .eqs. "%X00030001"  >  > A > The X00030001 indicates the file is still in use.  Works great.    Doesn't work here.   $ open q xyz.dat /read /write . $ write sys$output f$file ( "xyz.dat", "cdt" )* %SYSTEM-W-ACCONFLICT, file access conflict
  \xyz.dat\ $ show sym $status   $STATUS == "%X00000800"  $ 	 $ close q . $ write sys$output f$file ( "xyz.dat", "cdt" ) 23-FEB-2005 08:14:28.32  $ show sym $status   $STATUS == "%X00010001"  $ * $ open q xyz.dat /read /write /share=write. $ write sys$output f$file ( "xyz.dat", "cdt" ) 23-FEB-2005 08:14:28.32  $ show sym $status   $STATUS == "%X00010001"  $ ( $ write sys$output f$message ( %x30001 )+ %CLI-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:56:32 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".' Message-ID: <421C8B90.694C9C52@aaa.com>   " Jesse.Chambless@acs-inc.com wrote: >  > Hello, >  > I use the following: > + > $ cdt = f$file_attributes("''lin'","CDT") ! > $ if $status .eqs. "%X00030001"  > A > The X00030001 indicates the file is still in use.  Works great.    I get :   + $ cdt = f$file_attributes("test.fil","CDT") * %SYSTEM-W-ACCONFLICT, file access conflict  \test.fil\    $ sh sym $status   $STATUS == "%X00000800"   1 If I close the file (in the othe session) I get :   + $ cdt = f$file_attributes("test.fil","CDT")  $ sh sym $status   $STATUS == "%X00030001"  $   = So "%X00030001" seems to be "closed/OK", not "still in use" ?  Or ?  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:35:53 -0500 ( From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com>0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write"., Message-ID: <421c9538$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  7 "Klaq" <aklaq@WYWAL.TO.poczta.onet.pl> wrote in message * news:cvhlsf$foa$1@localhost.localdomain...D > Uzytkownik "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> napisal w wiadomosci# > news:421C4EDC.61114EDC@aaa.com... F > > I'm looking for a method to "see" that a file is opened for write. : =  > I know about detecting this by trying an operation such as < > > OPEN on the file and catching the error, but I'm looking* > > for something a little more "correct",   > Hi, B > I use lexical function F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES with "LOCKED" parameter   :  > Andrew   NOOOOOOOOO......  : That does NOT tell you whether a file is currently locked.H If you have been using that in scripts, then those scripts have not been' doing what you intended. Please verify.        Jan,H     Just opening the file is the single best method, as it has no timing window. F     Any information from any lexical would be old by the time the next statement is executed.  K     What do you want to do with the file when you find it, and you can open  it? H     If you need to copy it, or process it, then use the DCL logical name from the open to do so:    $file = F$SEARCH...  $If...% $OPEN/ERROR=next_file  incoming 'file  $COPY incoming 'some_place	 $GOTO....    fwiw,  Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:06:00 -0800  From: Z <Z@no.spam> 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write"., Message-ID: <NQ2Td.17831$sK2.15878@fe07.lga>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: D > I'm looking for a method to "see" that a file is opened for write.9 > I have a polling batch job that looks for FTP'ed files. B > I have to detect if the file is still opened by the FTP session.< > I know about detecting this by trying an operation such as: > OPEN on the file and catching the error, but I'm looking: > for something a little more "correct", such as a lexical > or something.  >  > Any thoughts ?  C I've $SEARCHed the output of $SHOW DEVICE/FILES to figure this out.   E That method can't distinguish "open for read" from "open for write,"  H though, so caveat emptor.  In my situation, I knew if the file was open - by a specific process, it was open for write.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:06:02 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".0 Message-ID: <111pgveovhrac8f@corp.supernews.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > Hi.  > 0 > (Sorry, but this is purily techinical... :-) ) > D > I'm looking for a method to "see" that a file is opened for write.9 > I have a polling batch job that looks for FTP'ed files. B > I have to detect if the file is still opened by the FTP session.< > I know about detecting this by trying an operation such as: > OPEN on the file and catching the error, but I'm looking: > for something a little more "correct", such as a lexical > or something.  >  > Any thoughts ? >  > Jan-Erik.   I As far as I know, the file system doesn't know anything about how a file  I is accessed.  I'm pretty sure that the information you want is contained   in the locking system.  G To scan the DLM locks, you need CMKRNL, no other option that I'm aware  F of.  This stuff isn't documented, except in the internals books.  Ok, H some of the stuff isn't documented.  There is a system service that can E be used to scan the DLM database.  There are several programs on the  G freeware and elsewhere that do such.  A search of the archives will be   helpful.  G I submitted a utility to the freeware distribution, version/volume 6 I  @ think, the one previous to the one currently being distributed. F RMS_LOCKS is implemented in DEC BASIC.  It could be done much better. I It was just some curosity, what it fell out of was something similar and  E I didn't do much to make it user friendly.  It was never tested on a  D cluster, and on Alpha it doesn't handle device names very well.  IT G would be good to show how to scan the DLM databaase, and you could fit    that technique to what you need.   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:58:10 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".D Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0502231056370.4959@localhost.localdomain>  J   This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,K   while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.   % --8323328-1393777366-1109181487=:4959 ; Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT   . On Wed, 23 Feb 2005, Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  D > I'm looking for a method to "see" that a file is opened for write.9 > I have a polling batch job that looks for FTP'ed files. B > I have to detect if the file is still opened by the FTP session.< > I know about detecting this by trying an operation such as: > OPEN on the file and catching the error, but I'm looking: > for something a little more "correct", such as a lexical > or something.   ! I would use a different approach.   F Have the ftp sending side send the file with a temporary name.  After F the transfer is complete, the sending side can rename the file to the @ permanent name.  Then your polling job just needs to detect the  permanent name.      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/  ' --8323328-1393777366-1109181487=:4959--    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 05:55:14 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 2 Subject: Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc)( Message-ID: <opsmnkycgczgicya@hyrrokkin>  J On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:55:40 +0100, Ferry Bolhar <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>   wrote:  
 > Tom Linden:  > > >> FREJA> pipe lib/list PLI$STARLET.TLB | sear sys$pipe LHIDEF
 >> $LHIDEF > 1 > Well, this requires an installed PL/1 compiler.  > F > And I'm not sure, whether definitions for PL/1 are really useful for > the C compiler...  Don't use C. > + >> If you have access to VAX do, $ HELP SDL  > A > At least on my VAX system (VMS V7.2), there is no HELP for SDL.   = Well, maybe you need to install it.  It is on the freeware CD  >  > Greetings, Ferry >        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:05:04 +0100 , From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>2 Subject: Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc)5 Message-ID: <1109174706.433658@proxy.dienste.wien.at>    Tom Linden:   G >> And I'm not sure, whether definitions for PL/1 are really useful for  >> the C compiler... > Don't use C.  5 What else? Do you think that PL/1 is a better choice?   , >>> If you have access to VAX do, $ HELP SDL >>B >> At least on my VAX system (VMS V7.2), there is no HELP for SDL. > ? > Well, maybe you need to install it.  It is on the freeware CD    What's its purpose?    Greetings, Ferry   --   Ing. Ferry Bolhar % Municipality of Vienna, Department 14  A-1010 Vienna / AUSTRIA  E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:08:29 +0000 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> 2 Subject: Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc), Message-ID: <383o8jF5ibmisU1@individual.net>   Ferry Bolhar wrote:   
 > Tom Linden:  > G >>>And I'm not sure, whether definitions for PL/1 are really useful for  >>>the C compiler... >> >>Don't use C. > 7 > What else? Do you think that PL/1 is a better choice?   ' Aber sicher! Ohne Ausnahme! Absolutely!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:02:27 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 2 Subject: Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc)0 Message-ID: <111pd86c03qc1d0@corp.supernews.com>   Ferry Bolhar wrote: 
 > Tom Linden:  >  > G >>>And I'm not sure, whether definitions for PL/1 are really useful for  >>>the C compiler... >> >>Don't use C. >  > 7 > What else? Do you think that PL/1 is a better choice?   ! Almost anything is better than C.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:17:23 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 2 Subject: Re: Field name nomenclature (L, W, B etc)( Message-ID: <opsmnw29xazgicya@hyrrokkin>  J On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:05:04 +0100, Ferry Bolhar <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>   wrote:  
 > Tom Linden:  > H >>> And I'm not sure, whether definitions for PL/1 are really useful for >>> the C compiler...  >> Don't use C.  > 7 > What else? Do you think that PL/1 is a better choice?  > - >>>> If you have access to VAX do, $ HELP SDL  >>> C >>> At least on my VAX system (VMS V7.2), there is no HELP for SDL.  >>@ >> Well, maybe you need to install it.  It is on the freeware CD >  > What's its purpose?    HERMES> help sdl   SDL     I     The VAX Structure Definition Language (VAX  SDL)  is  used  to  write I     source  statements  that  describe  data  structures  and that can be I     translated to source statements in other languages.  You can  include I     the resulting output files in a corresponding target language program      for subsequent compilation.   I     Because  VAX  SDL  is  compiler-  and  language-independent,  it   is F     particularly useful for maintaining multilanguage implementations.       Format: ?             SDL[/qualifier[...]] file-spec[/qualifier[...]],...   1     VAX SDL supports the following VMS languages:   H     o VAX Ada       o VAX BASIC   o VAX BLISS   o VAX C          o VAX  
 DATATRIEVEK     o VAX FORTRAN   o VAX MACRO   o VAX Pascal  o VAXELN Pascal  o VAX PL/I       $    Additional information available:  6    Parameters                       Command_Qualifiers1    /COMMENTS                        D = /COMMENTS 4    /COPYRIGHT                       D = /NOCOPYRIGHT/    /DUMP                            D = /NODUMP <    /GLOBAL_DEFINITION               D = /NOGLOBAL_DEFINITION/    /HEADER                          D = /HEADER 4    /LANGUAGES                       D = No languages=    /LIST                            D = /LIST (B) /NOLIST (I) /    /MODULE                          D = /MODULE .    /PARSE                           D = /PARSE3    /SUPPRESS                        D = /NOSUPPRESS :    /VMS_DEVELOPMENT                 D = /NOVMS_DEVELOPMENT.    Arrays                           Data_Types/    Declarations                     Expressions <    Forcing_Data_Alignment           Forcing_Negative_Offsets8    DECLARE_Statement                IFLANGUAGE_Statement,    INCLUDE_Statement                Keywords2    LITERAL_Statement                Local_Comments3    Names                            Output_Comments 1    Prefixes                         Release_Notes 2    Storage_Classes                  READ_Statement8    Tags                             Using_Offset_Symbols    VAX_MACRO_Constants   @SDL SDL Subtopic? decl    SDL       Declarations     K       VAX SDL declarations are composed of user-specified  names,  reserved K       VAX  SDL keywords, and expressions.  The output generated by each VAX K       SDL  declaration  depends  on  which  back  end  is  used   for   the        translation.      &      Additional information available:  *      MODULE                           ITEM.      AGGREGATE                        CONSTANT2      ENTRY                            Subaggregate+      STRUCTURE                        UNION C      Implicit_Union                   Implicit_Union_with_DIMENSION      >  > Greetings, Ferry >        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 11:52:28 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: HFLOAT to XFLOAT 3 Message-ID: <vxkmYnq1J27J@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <hiLSd.417$tP5.293@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:  > Bob Koehler wrote:l >> In article <f4a8f670.0502220254.25090950@posting.google.com>, carfer@gmail.com (Carlos Fernandez) writes: >>  H >>>Thanks for your reply, but I forgot to say I don't have a Vax machineE >>>but Alpha instead, and as far as I understand, Macro-32 should not = >>>understand H_float. Anyway, I don't manage well wih Macro.  >>   >>  G >>    Macro-32 certainly does understand H-float.  Macro-32 understands  >>    everything a VAX can do. >>   > D > For the record, the Macro compiler on Alpha (and I64) does NOT do G > everything that a VAX would do (including the .H_FLOATING directive).  >   E    A mater of specifics.  The Macro-32 compilers on Alpha and IA64 do G    not do H floating, but the OP wasn't that specific, he left it to be I    inferred.  Macro-32 itself does support H floating, as can be seen on      any VAX.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:43:49 +1100 4 From: O'Brien Paddy <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au>3 Subject: RE: How to clear device errors w/o reboot? X Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BDF1@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>   -----Original Message-----9 From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net]  Sent: Wed 2/23/2005 2:33 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?     bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > > > Isn't there a freeware program out there I thought somewhere4 > I saw once that clears device errors w/o a reboot?  H Look for a piece of freeware called ZDEC. Dunno where I got it from, butA its probably still around. I seem to recall it was distributed as D MACRO/32 source code; so, if you built it on your system it was lessF likely to cause a crash. I haven't seen it cause any problems and I've9 been using it on rare occasions since V6.2-1H3 (I think).   6 My reply, coz I can't see how Mozilla represents this:  t I think that this was from Wolfgang Mueller (sp?) who used to be active here, but haven't seen his name for a while.   Regards, Paddy    G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:03:57 +0100 , From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot? 5 Message-ID: <1109149438.685271@proxy.dienste.wien.at>   
 Hoff Hoffman:   K >   Thank you for reminding me; the OpenVMS FAQ section "How do I reset the K >   error count(s)?" needs an update to point to the SET DEVICE/ERROR=RESET J >   command that is avaiable within DCL in current releases; in V7.3-2 andJ >   later, IIRC.  If you are on an older release, the rest of the FAQ text >   does still apply.   - There is no such command on my V7.3-2 system:    $ SET DEVICE/ERROR=RESET DQA1:= %DCL-W-NOVALU, value not allowed - remove value specification  $   < There is an /ERROR_LOGGING qualifier, but it takes no value.   Greetings, Ferry   --   Ing. Ferry Bolhar % Municipality of Vienna, Department 14  A-1010 Vienna / AUSTRIA  E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:51:34 +0000c- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>f3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?e* Message-ID: <421C5226.4090403@bigpond.com>  " Ferry Bolhar was overheard to say: > Hoff Hoffman:  >  > K >>  Thank you for reminding me; the OpenVMS FAQ section "How do I reset theeK >>  error count(s)?" needs an update to point to the SET DEVICE/ERROR=RESET"J >>  command that is avaiable within DCL in current releases; in V7.3-2 andJ >>  later, IIRC.  If you are on an older release, the rest of the FAQ text >>  does still apply.  >  > / > There is no such command on my V7.3-2 system:n >   > $ SET DEVICE/ERROR=RESET DQA1:? > %DCL-W-NOVALU, value not allowed - remove value specificationB > $  > > > There is an /ERROR_LOGGING qualifier, but it takes no value. >  > Greetings, Ferry >   
  From HELP   SETo  	    DEVICEv        /RESETr  %            /RESET=(keyword[,keyword])o  0         Requires CMKRNL and DIAGNOSE privileges.  I         Resets either or both the error count and the operation count forwI         a device. You must specify one or both of the following keywords:v  2         ERROR_COUNT        Resets the error count.  6         OPERATION_COUNT    Resets the operation count.  G         When either count is reset, a message is sent to the error log.wG         The message indicates that the count was reset and includes theA.         value of the counter before the reset.     Regards, Dave.i -- tD David B Sneddon (dbs)  VMS Systems Programmer  dbsneddon@bigpond.comD Sneddo's quick guide ...     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/D DBS freeware     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:02:12 +0100 A From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder.nospam@volkswagen.de>k3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?o) Message-ID: <cvhkan$4uk5@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>O   Ferry Bolhar wrote:m > Hoff Hoffman:n >  > K >>  Thank you for reminding me; the OpenVMS FAQ section "How do I reset theeK >>  error count(s)?" needs an update to point to the SET DEVICE/ERROR=RESET J >>  command that is avaiable within DCL in current releases; in V7.3-2 andJ >>  later, IIRC.  If you are on an older release, the rest of the FAQ text >>  does still apply.y >  > / > There is no such command on my V7.3-2 system:  >   > $ SET DEVICE/ERROR=RESET DQA1:? > %DCL-W-NOVALU, value not allowed - remove value specificationr > $) > > > There is an /ERROR_LOGGING qualifier, but it takes no value. >  > Greetings, Ferry >   0 It's the other way roud: set device /reset=Error  	 mfg Kalle    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:29:14 GMTi" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?h0 Message-ID: <00A3FCF1.135E05EF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <1109119673.439070.267020@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:p3 >well, I did the SDA and DELTA bit on our alpha vmsh7 >7.1-1H2 system, got the correct error count and zappedt >it, then exited and did a >e >$ sh dev dr >o7 >and still 4 errors showed ... go back thru the routinee4 >again and DELTA shows a 0 instead of 4 ... now that8 >may have fixed it in delta but what about the sh device! >display?  Any more bright ideas?s  # Perhaps you zapped the wrong field?p  < From what device type are you trying to clear these errors?      --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            t5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:06:17 GMTt! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>r3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?s8 Message-ID: <i6uo119i8sjbikgl46min2upl6kjrhuke7@4ax.com>  J On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:03:57 +0100, "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at> wrote:   >Hoff Hoffman: >lL >>   Thank you for reminding me; the OpenVMS FAQ section "How do I reset theL >>   error count(s)?" needs an update to point to the SET DEVICE/ERROR=RESETK >>   command that is avaiable within DCL in current releases; in V7.3-2 andCK >>   later, IIRC.  If you are on an older release, the rest of the FAQ text  >>   does still apply. >l. >There is no such command on my V7.3-2 system: >r >$ SET DEVICE/ERROR=RESET DQA1:r> >%DCL-W-NOVALU, value not allowed - remove value specification >$   That's because the syntax is   $ SET DEVICE/RESET=ERROR_COUNT   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurh   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 05:34:20 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.comp3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?pB Message-ID: <1109165660.191051.97200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  ; no ... I zpped dka200, the only device that had errors, and < 4 errors, and delta returned a 4 before I zapped it, then go< back thru the routine again and delta shows it is 0, but the" sh dev d display still shows 4 ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:40:48 +0000e- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> 3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?s, Message-ID: <383fjmF5kvo2fU1@individual.net>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:  = > no ... I zpped dka200, the only device that had errors, and > > 4 errors, and delta returned a 4 before I zapped it, then go> > back thru the routine again and delta shows it is 0, but the$ > sh dev d display still shows 4 ...  1 Then please post a log of *exactly* what you did.   . In other words, you've done /something/ wrong.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 07:47:08 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.comu3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot? C Message-ID: <1109173628.840652.221240@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   D the log would look just like the vms faq example ... everything went
 just like theh; faq said ... I can't do it now as I rebooted last night ...    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 08:25:47 -0800  From: "JLR" <jl.rayon@gmail.com>3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?oB Message-ID: <1109175947.885981.66260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   I have the source of ZDEC.MARs  	 ; Author:-? ;   Mark Oakley     DuPont Experimental Station     12-Nov-1984 : ;   This program is based upon the VARY program written by* ;   Gary Grebus of Battelle Columbus Labs. Last modification:C ;  20-Jul-2001      Paul Gallo      Compaq Computer Corporation,CSCC  ' If you want to get it send me a mail at-  jl.rayon-nospam@gmail.com% (remove "-nospam" from this address).d  B I have tried this ZDEC.MAR in October 2001, and I its works with aG drastic efficiency: the system crashed, and when it restart, the errors   counters have been reset to 0 :)   Jean-Luc RAYON   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:41:57 -0500l From: norm.raphael@metso.com3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?aQ Message-ID: <OFBEFAE5A9.D0169897-ON85256FB1.005B6385-85256FB1.005C0F4D@metso.com>   = ZDEC has been superseded by CLEAR_ERRORS (which AFAIK is lesst likely to crash systems).s  @ I don't remember where I got it, but the heads-up came from this venue.   $ type aaareadme.txtB CLEAR_ERRORS clears the device error count on an Alpha VMS system.# Files in this contribution include:    AAAREADME.TXT     - this fileF7 BLD.COM           - procedure to build CLEAR_ERRORS exe- CLEAR_ERRORS.C    - source CLEAR_ERRORS.EXE  - executable# CLEAR_ERRORS.OBJ  - compiled source?> SET_ERRORS.C      - program to set error count for each device SET_ERRORS.EXE    - executable# SET_ERRORS.OBJ    - compiled sourceo( SYSDOC.TXT        - system documentation  8 SET_ERRORS is included because it was useful for testing and debugging CLEAR_ERRORS.E  # Questions and comments are welcome.E   Mark Oakley  Verizon Wireless 5165 Emerald Parkway Dublin, OH  43017D   614/560-8726 mark.oakley@verizonwireless.coms   $ type sysdoc.txtfF CLEAR_ERRORS zeroes out the error count for all devices on a VMS Alpha system.t* CPU and memory errors are also zeroed out.  H The error count for a device is stored in a data structure called a unitF control block (UCB). All device UCBs of a particular kind (e.g. DGA1:, DGA2:,G etc.) are linked together. The first UCB in the list is pointed to by al deviceJ data block (DDB).  The last UCB in the list contains a null value (0) as a+ pointer.  So the structure might look like:-              DDB
             |5             ---> UCB!                   link  ----> UCBl.                   err cnt      link  ----> UCB.                                err cnt       02                                            err cnt  K Note that the UCB has over 100 fields. The above diagram just depicts a few  fields.t  J All of the DDBs are linked together.  The first DDB in the list is pointed toI by an SCS system block (SB).  The last DDB contains a null value (0) as ao( pointer.  The structure might look like:  
            SBt
             |t             ---> DDB!                   link  ----> DDB .                                link  ----> DDB.                                              0  H Note that the DDB has over 20 fields. The above diagram just depicts the link field.  I All of the SBs are arranged in a doubly linked list.  The first SB in theq listK is pointed to by the global symbol SCS$GQ_CONFIG.  The structure might looka like:   =              ------------------------------------------------H=              |                                              | =     ---> SCS$GQ_CONFIG <------------------------------      |w=     |        |                                        |     |e=     |        --->SB                                   |     |s=     |            flink  ----> SB                      |     | =     |----------  blink        flink  ----> SB         |     |o=                    ^--------- blink        flink  ----|     |i=                                 ^--------- blink            |.=                                              ^--------------|E  G Note that the SB has over 20 fields. The above diagram just depicts the, link fields.   I Each VMS system has at least one SB that points to all the local devices.  IfK the system is clustered, then there will be one SB for each cluster member.y IfJ there are HSJ, HSC, or HSD controllers connected, there will be one SB for each.   H CLEAR_ERRORS starts at SCS$GQ_CONFIG and works its way through all these2 linked lists, zeroing the error fields at it goes.  F EXE$GL_MEMERRS and EXE$CL_MCHKERRS point to memory cells that hold the number> of memory and cpu errors, respectively.  Both are set to zero.  H Zeroing the error fields can only be done from kernel mode and should beI appropriately synchronized by acquiring the write mutex on the I/O device J database and raising interrupt priority level(IPL).  The SYS$CMKRNL systemF service is used to reach kernel mode, and the SCH_STD$IOLOCKW internal routine2= acquires the mutex and raises IPL. An internal routine called$ SCH_STD$IOUNLOCK+ is used to release the mutex and lower IPL.n  G There is always a risk of a system crash when executing in kernel mode, H invoking undocumented routines, and navigating internal data structures.I CLEAR_ERRORS performs two steps to minimize the chance of a system crash.1 ThenG first is to see if CLEAR_ERRORS is executing on the same release of VMSl that ittK was linked on.  The VMS release id (e.g. V7.3-1) is not stored in the image2H header.  However, the image id of the linker is, and this is compared to the G image id in SYS$SYSTEM:LINK.EXE.  If they match, then we assume the VMSgC releases are the same. If they don't match, then we abort.  For VMSu V7.1-1H1H the linker image id is A11-39, for V7.2-1 it is A11-50, and for V7.3 and V7.3-1
 it is A12-03.e  K The second step to minimize the chance of a crash is to declare a condition:K handler as soon as we reach kernel mode.  In CLEAR_ERRORS, "nocrash" is thekI name of the exit handler. If "nocrash" executes it will release the mutexk onJ the I/O device database if one was acquired and drop IPL.  This will avoid amI crash, but the process will likely be deleted if a SYS$EXIT is performed.  SoK "nocrash" calls EXE$REI_INIT_STACK to change the access mode from kernel toa@ user.  EXE$REI_INIT_STACK turns control over to a routine called& "graceful_exit" after the mode change.  K CLEAR_ERRORS was compiled, linked, and tested on VMS V7.3 using C V6.5-001. A The object was also linked and tested on VMS V7.1-1H1 and V7.2-1.   B The error handler ("nocrash") was also tested by causing an access	 violationlJ in kernel mode at elevated IPL with the I/O database locked, and "nocrash" wase able to avoid a system crash.S    ; "JLR" <jl.rayon@gmail.com> wrote on 02/23/2005 11:25:47 AM:T   >E > I have the source of ZDEC.MAR  >T > ; Author: A > ;   Mark Oakley     DuPont Experimental Station     12-Nov-1984 < > ;   This program is based upon the VARY program written by, > ;   Gary Grebus of Battelle Columbus Labs. > Last modification:E > ;  20-Jul-2001      Paul Gallo      Compaq Computer Corporation,CSC  > ) > If you want to get it send me a mail ats >  jl.rayon-nospam@gmail.com' > (remove "-nospam" from this address).h >wD > I have tried this ZDEC.MAR in October 2001, and I its works with aI > drastic efficiency: the system crashed, and when it restart, the errors " > counters have been reset to 0 :) >k > Jean-Luc RAYON >    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 12:15:10 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i3 Subject: Re: How to clear device errors w/o reboot?a3 Message-ID: <qDpQQwwQG$44@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  ^ In article <1109165660.191051.97200@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:= > no ... I zpped dka200, the only device that had errors, ando> > 4 errors, and delta returned a 4 before I zapped it, then go> > back thru the routine again and delta shows it is 0, but the$ > sh dev d display still shows 4 ... >   G    You were probably somewhere else in the UCB that also contained a 4.n   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 07:39:39 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)E Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?n3 Message-ID: <3ygdikOun+7t@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  d In article <421BC624.5020704@bigpond.com>, David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> writes:" > Bob Kaplow mentioned in passing:N >> Part of my nightly batch stream includes the daily tape backup. I'm lookingL >> for a way to make BACKUP abort if it runs out of tape, instead of sendingK >> out an OPCOM message to mount a new tape. It's a lights out environment, O >> with no one around to respond to the message. If BACKUP requests a new tape, L >> the job hangs, and the stuff following the backup never gets done. Then I* >> have a mess to clean up in the morning. >>  M >> I've put /NOASSIST on both the MOUNT and BACKUP commands, but that doesn'ts? >> do it. There is no $$$ for a stacker. Any other suggestions?8 >>   >>  4 >> 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" > 9 > If you have no operators enabled to service the request"3 > then BACKUP will abort.  That is what we do here.e  G How? For me it displays OPCOM messages on the not-logged-in console and8: waits for intervention. What do you do to get it to abort?  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD",& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf0L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  K         This is a country which stands tallest in troubled times, a country K         that clings to fundamental principles, cherishes its constitutional:I         heritage, and rejects simple solutions that compromise the valuesXH         that lie at the roots of our democratic system. -- Supreme Court(         Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1972    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 07:44:04 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)E Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request? 3 Message-ID: <MHJuQ97JCGjb@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  ` In article <421BF8AA.10C1B7D0@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:J > Another is to estimate in advance how much data will be written to tape.  J Well, that might work. But the actual source of the problem was our stupidD day operator (who looks a LOT like that guy you've seen at CARTS LUG5 meetings) put a DLT3 where a DLT4 should have been...o  I The bottom line is that I need to make the batch backup script robust and-% independent of operator intervention.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfpL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  K         This is a country which stands tallest in troubled times, a countrynK         that clings to fundamental principles, cherishes its constitutional.I         heritage, and rejects simple solutions that compromise the values H         that lie at the roots of our democratic system. -- Supreme Court(         Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1972    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:54:23 +0000i- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>uE Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?o, Message-ID: <383gd6F5kjrirU1@individual.net>   Bob Kaplow wrote:   f > In article <421BC624.5020704@bigpond.com>, David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> writes: > " >>Bob Kaplow mentioned in passing: >>N >>>Part of my nightly batch stream includes the daily tape backup. I'm lookingL >>>for a way to make BACKUP abort if it runs out of tape, instead of sendingK >>>out an OPCOM message to mount a new tape. It's a lights out environment,gO >>>with no one around to respond to the message. If BACKUP requests a new tape,nL >>>the job hangs, and the stuff following the backup never gets done. Then I* >>>have a mess to clean up in the morning. >>>tM >>>I've put /NOASSIST on both the MOUNT and BACKUP commands, but that doesn'ti? >>>do it. There is no $$$ for a stacker. Any other suggestions?t >>>  >>>r4 >>>	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>9 >>If you have no operators enabled to service the requests3 >>then BACKUP will abort.  That is what we do here.  >  > I > How? For me it displays OPCOM messages on the not-logged-in console andr< > waits for intervention. What do you do to get it to abort?  F Bob,  how's about spawning a subprocess just before the Backup starts.A This subprocess can then check the status of the tape device on a0> periodic basis.  You'll see a difference between when the tapeD is mounted and Backup is progressing, and when Backup has dismountedC the current tape and is requesting a new tape.  You can then decide C whether you want the subprocess to kill its parent (i.e. completely C abort), or whether it should send a FORCEX to the parent, which cant6 then be handled "appropriately" by the parent process.  = I've implemented a similar scheme for a tape robot, where theg9 switch had to be set to non-next-tape-loading (i.e. underd$ control of MRU - $ robot load 'n+1).  ? Should be quite easy for you to put together something similar.m  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:56:17 +0000 ) From: Tom Wade <nospam@picard.eurokom.ie>yE Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?e2 Message-ID: <%W%Sd.48246$Z14.34927@news.indigo.ie>   Bob Kaplow wrote:a  I > How? For me it displays OPCOM messages on the not-logged-in console and < > waits for intervention. What do you do to get it to abort?  ! 	$ Define /user SYS$COMMAND OPA0:a 	$ Reply /disable=TAPESl  2 should disable TAPE OPCOM messages on the console.  E For permanent setup, define the appropriate logical in SYLOGICALS.COM    e.g.< OPC$OPA0_ENABLE set to FALSE will disable all OPCOM on OPA0.H If you need some classes enabled, define OPC$OPA0_CLASSES as the list of9 desired classes (see comments in SYLOGICALS.COM) instead.o    9 --------------------------------------------------------- @ Tom Wade                 | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie3 EuroKom                  | Tel:   +353 (1) 296-9696m3 A2, Nutgrove Office Park | Fax:   +353 (1) 296-9697 L Rathfarnham              | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimer            G Dublin 14                | Tip:   "Friends don't let friends do Unix !"M Ireland    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:54:58 +0000w- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>0E Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?f* Message-ID: <421C8B32.4010005@bigpond.com>    Bob Kaplow was overheard to say: > I > How? For me it displays OPCOM messages on the not-logged-in console andt< > waits for intervention. What do you do to get it to abort? > 3 > 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"E  ; If you are getting OPCOM messages then you have an operatort4 defined.  I explicitly disable this for the backups.( An abridged version of some of the steps    $ define/nolog sys$command opa0: $ reply/enable $ reply/disablew $ deassign sys$command( $ backup/image/assist/list='list_file' -*    'fulldevnam'/ignore=(interlock,label) -6    'save_set'/media_format=compaction/block_size=30000  < If it needs assistance, there are no operators available and; it fails.  This also requires that no-one else is logged inm on an operator enabled session.e   Regards, Dave.e -- rD David B Sneddon (dbs)  VMS Systems Programmer  dbsneddon@bigpond.comD Sneddo's quick guide ...     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/D DBS freeware     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:59:34 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>E Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request? , Message-ID: <383gi0F5fmfr2U1@individual.net>   Bob Kaplow wrote:   f > In article <421BC624.5020704@bigpond.com>, David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> writes: > " >>Bob Kaplow mentioned in passing: >>N >>>Part of my nightly batch stream includes the daily tape backup. I'm lookingL >>>for a way to make BACKUP abort if it runs out of tape, instead of sendingK >>>out an OPCOM message to mount a new tape. It's a lights out environment,DO >>>with no one around to respond to the message. If BACKUP requests a new tape,eL >>>the job hangs, and the stuff following the backup never gets done. Then I* >>>have a mess to clean up in the morning. >>>$M >>>I've put /NOASSIST on both the MOUNT and BACKUP commands, but that doesn'tL? >>>do it. There is no $$$ for a stacker. Any other suggestions?C >>>  >>>r4 >>>	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>9 >>If you have no operators enabled to service the request-3 >>then BACKUP will abort.  That is what we do here.0 >  > I > How? For me it displays OPCOM messages on the not-logged-in console anda< > waits for intervention. What do you do to get it to abort? >     From SYLOGICALS:n  ' $! By default, the operator states are:o $!< $!      For all systems except workstations in a VAXcluster: $!1 $!              OPA0: is enabled for all classes. H $!              The log file SYS$MANAGER:OPERATOR.LOG is opened for all 
 classes.$!) $!      For workstations in a VAXcluster:  $!& $!              OPA0: is not enabled.*& $!              No log file is opened. $!  D So by default if you are using backup from a clustered workstation, 1 BACKUP won't be able to log the operator request.a  B  From previous tests it appears that if a graphics head is on the H system, it is treated as a workstation for this purpose and BACKUP will D abort when it runs out of tape, even if that system is in reality a  cluster server.1  L Yes, I got bitten by this when I turned my home Alpha into a cluster member.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:29:38 -0500.( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>E Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?e0 Message-ID: <00A3FD0A.469FBBB2.19@tachysoft.com>  5 >From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)l >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsF >Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?! >Date: 23 Feb 2005 07:44:04 -0600  >Organization: Encompasserve > a >In article <421BF8AA.10C1B7D0@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:.K >> Another is to estimate in advance how much data will be written to tape.  >iK >Well, that might work. But the actual source of the problem was our stupid E >day operator (who looks a LOT like that guy you've seen at CARTS LUGs6 >meetings) put a DLT3 where a DLT4 should have been... >   N TAPESYS gives you a lot of protection from stupid oprators.  Assuming you haveN properly identified tapes in the TS database with media types of dlt3 or dlt4,M it will select an available tape of the correct type and tell the operator torK mount that explicit volume.  If he mounts the wrong one, the tapesys backuph2 module will dismount it and tell him to try again.   Wayne>O ===============================================================================WN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   rO ===============================================================================hP Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2005 14:34:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)E Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request? , Message-ID: <383ikgF5ki0acU3@individual.net>  , In article <383gd6F5kjrirU1@individual.net>,0 	Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes: > ? > I've implemented a similar scheme for a tape robot, where the ; > switch had to be set to non-next-tape-loading (i.e. under & > control of MRU - $ robot load 'n+1). >   > Speaking of Tape Robots.  Is there anywhere I can find out how= to communicate with a TL812?  I have one and would love to bem6 able to write my own backup package to make use of it.   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 06:46:17 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>BE Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?AC Message-ID: <1109169977.245776.258980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: >/@ > Speaking of Tape Robots.  Is there anywhere I can find out how? > to communicate with a TL812?  I have one and would love to be 8 > able to write my own backup package to make use of it. >  > bill >    Ditto, except for a TL891t     John H. ReinhardtA   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 11:09:13 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)E Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request? 3 Message-ID: <xaNPa7kttW60@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <421C8B32.4010005@bigpond.com>, David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> writes:* > An abridged version of some of the steps > " > $ define/nolog sys$command opa0: > $ reply/enable > $ reply/disablef > $ deassign sys$command* > $ backup/image/assist/list='list_file' -, >    'fulldevnam'/ignore=(interlock,label) -8 >    'save_set'/media_format=compaction/block_size=30000  E I'll try this over the weekend. Do you really want /assist instead of % /noassist on the backup command here?T  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  K         This is a country which stands tallest in troubled times, a country2K         that clings to fundamental principles, cherishes its constitutionalmI         heritage, and rejects simple solutions that compromise the valuesAH         that lie at the roots of our democratic system. -- Supreme Court(         Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1972    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 12:11:06 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler),E Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?r3 Message-ID: <67xZ$vvm+V0+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <2RSriRZMeq5i@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) writes:M > Part of my nightly batch stream includes the daily tape backup. I'm lookingHK > for a way to make BACKUP abort if it runs out of tape, instead of sendingoJ > out an OPCOM message to mount a new tape. It's a lights out environment,N > with no one around to respond to the message. If BACKUP requests a new tape,K > the job hangs, and the stuff following the backup never gets done. Then Ia) > have a mess to clean up in the morning.e > L > I've put /NOASSIST on both the MOUNT and BACKUP commands, but that doesn't> > do it. There is no $$$ for a stacker. Any other suggestions? >   F    You can write a program to recieve and respond to the OPCOM request    with the proper abort.t  F    Once upon a time there was a very good example of the first part ofH    this in an early (pre-Motif) DECwindows example that created a windowD    which picked up all the broadcasts to another DECterm.  If anyone3    has an old kit, it would be circa VMS 5.2 or so.     j3    The second part is just learning to use $SNDOPR.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 12:12:15 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)oE Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?r3 Message-ID: <a3ITq6Ojboox@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  j In article <3ygdikOun+7t@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) writes: > I > How? For me it displays OPCOM messages on the not-logged-in console andi< > waits for intervention. What do you do to get it to abort? >   D    The console does not have to be enabled for OPCOM.  Just log into1    it with OPER privilege and do a reply/disable.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 12:31:29 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: JRE Problem on OpenVMSt3 Message-ID: <znbm4RDFOBiP@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  Z In article <JOadndZ15pF3I4bfRVn-gA@comcast.com>, k2 <karlkras@comkillspamcast.net> writes: > E > I'm having a problem getting strings printed out to stderr working aM > properly using java in a commandline interface process. Consider this code:  > http://tinyurl.com/4wo7x > E > you will see that the line feed from 2nd print process garbles the e1 > output. I suspect a bug in the JRE for this OS?r >   H    I think you're right.  The problem appears to be in mixing two outputF    streams on the same physical device, but that's what System.err andA    System.out are.  Since you explicitly get the "line.separator"i0    property it should work in a portable manner.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:46:50 -0500t# From: "rob kas" <bob@paychoice.com>*8 Subject: London Stock Exchange slowing moving to Windows0 Message-ID: <111pgckj6qgp7e1@corp.supernews.com>  # http://www.vnunet.com/news/1161471 r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:20:24 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>o< Subject: Re: London Stock Exchange slowing moving to WindowsB Message-ID: <1109182099.90cabe1e05d3f1842fc2628cb294e935@teranews>   rob kas wrote: > $ > http://www.vnunet.com/news/1161471  & Hey, VMS is mentioned in this article.  G If I were Euronext or Deutsche Brse, I'd wait until they plug in thesenE windows systems in mission critical systems, wait a few weeks for therF first crash and see the value of the LSE fall, at which point it would be far cheaper to acquire.    D What I find odd about this article is the number of times "commodityE systems based on Windows and Intel" is mentioned, as well as ".NET". r, Gives the impression it is an advertisement.  H If they were truly seeking "commodity" systems, they wouldn't constantlyA be mentioning "Intel", they's just say commodity Windows systems.m  E What would REALLY be interesting to know is HP's perspective on this.iF Are they encouraging the LSE to move to Windows, or did they work hardC to try to salvage this Tandem site ? Wouldn't surprise me to see HP " promoting Windows to Tandem sites.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:23:42 -0800n From: Z <Z@no.spam>RF Subject: Re: Micro$oft warns of undetectable spyware security risk ..., Message-ID: <gd2Td.17806$1G1.16415@fe07.lga>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:< > so you think everything can be patched in windoze land ...+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21326E    From SlashDot:T  I "In the wake of news that Microsoft is developing  prototype software to  I detect rootkits, SysInternals has released a free rootkit detection tool  H named RootkitRevealer [1] for all Windows systems NT4+. RootkitRevealer F works by "comparing the results of a system scan at the highest level C with that at the lowest level," and detects every known rootkit at   rootkit.com.  E They also report that it is impossible to know for sure that a given lD system is clean from within it, but that defeating their tool would A require a level of sophistication not yet seen. You can download   RootkitRevealer. [2]"r  B [1] http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/rootkitreveal.shtml9 [2] http://www.sysinternals.com/files/rootkitrevealer.zipu   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 01:18:14 -0800 From: mail@sanface.com1 Subject: Q: DEC Special Graphics escape sequencesiC Message-ID: <1109150294.131183.221090@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>e   Hello,  > A customer of ours talked us about DEC Special Graphics escape) sequences for drawing boxes, bolding etc.:5 Inside the example he sent us sequences like ^[qqqqqqe  9 1) Is this a proprietary syntax or is something like PCL?r" 2) Where can I find documentation?   Thanks   Fabrizio   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:39:57 +0100iE From: Bitnissen <bitnissen#SPAMMER_FORMAT_YOUR_HARDDISK#@hotmail.com>(5 Subject: Re: Q: DEC Special Graphics escape sequencesE8 Message-ID: <oqjo11h3qtbpml435kla1cdun6m198vj56@4ax.com>   Try;   http://vt100.net/a   /jimmi  6 On 23 Feb 2005 01:18:14 -0800, mail@sanface.com wrote:   >Hello,s >l? >A customer of ours talked us about DEC Special Graphics escape * >sequences for drawing boxes, bolding etc.6 >Inside the example he sent us sequences like ^[qqqqqq >r: >1) Is this a proprietary syntax or is something like PCL?# >2) Where can I find documentation?y >  >Thankst >o	 >Fabriziou   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 12:33:53 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: Q: DEC Special Graphics escape sequencesr3 Message-ID: <8YF$IBEUyPvu@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  \ In article <1109150294.131183.221090@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, mail@sanface.com writes: > Hello, > @ > A customer of ours talked us about DEC Special Graphics escape+ > sequences for drawing boxes, bolding etc.e7 > Inside the example he sent us sequences like ^[qqqqqqd > ; > 1) Is this a proprietary syntax or is something like PCL?D$ > 2) Where can I find documentation?  B    This should be documented in every VT manual.  Problem is, most?    folks don't buy VT's anymore and few hang on to the manuals.p  C    Many VT emulators, however, will honor this.  Many won't.  YMWV.-  G    The standard way of doing this under VMS is via a package like SMG$,)    which is fully documented.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:58:45 -0500-2 From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu>8 Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ?@ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0502230851590.7084@frank.harvard.edu>  2 On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr wrote:   > hi,a ><I > is there a way to read the monitor variables (thoses at the >>> prompt,m( > before boot) from an OpenVMS session ? >r  D The program appended below contains three files: once C source, one C Macro-64 (Alpha assembly) source, one MMS.  It does what you want. eK (Strictly speaking, the assembly code didn't need to be assembly; it could eK have been done in C but it would have been a lot less elegant.)  After you  1 build, you should define it as a foreign command:   0 $ GETENV :== $DISK$USER:[COLDWELL.SRM]GETENV.EXE  < (modify to match your directory hierarchy), then you can run   $ getenv bootdef_dev dka0.0.0.6.1  > or whatever variable suits your fancy.  Alpha-only, of course.   Chip   -- e Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell System Administrator Harvard Physics Department 617-495-3388  " [CUT HERE -- GETENV.C -- CUT HERE]   #include <ints>f #include <ssdef> #include <stsdef>. #include <hwrpbdef>o #include <starlet> #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h>d   #define BUFSIZE 512,  / extern uint64 srm_callback(int func_code, ...);w  ; static int doit(const char *variable, char *value, int len)- {-    uint64 status;-  D    status = srm_callback(HWRPB_CRB$K_GET_ENV, variable, value, len);$    if((status & (7LL << 61)) == 0) {)      value[status & 0xFFFFFFFFLL] = '\0';-      return SS$_NORMAL;v    }      return SS$_SSFAIL;o }r    int main(int argc, char *argv[]) {l    char buf[BUFSIZE];s    int status, arglist[6];      if(argc != 2) {6      fprintf(stderr, "usage: %s <variable>", argv[0]);      return EXIT_FAILURE;e    }      arglist[0] = 3;    arglist[1] = (int) argv[1];    arglist[2] = (int) buf;"    arglist[3] = (int) sizeof(buf);  &    status = sys$cmkrnl(doit, arglist);  #    if(!$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS(status))8      return EXIT_FAILURE;i  
    puts(buf);R    return EXIT_SUCCESS;r }   * [CUT HERE -- SRM_CALLBACK.M64 -- CUT HERE]  E ; SRM_CALLBACK.M64 -- wrapper for the SRM Console Callback Dispatcherv ;fB ;     2004 Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell <coldwell@frank.harvard.edu> ; H ; The SRM console defines a number of console callback routines that areG ; available to the operating system.  (The Alpha Architecture ReferencecD ; Manual, Third Edition, part III section 2.3 describes the routinesH ; that are required by the architecture.)  This module defines a routineI ; "srm_callback" that is a simple wrapper around the SRM console callbackNF ; dispatcher.  It enables high-level languages such as C to access theJ ; console callback routines by invoking a function call to this routine as ; if it were declaredo ;q1 ; extern uint64 srm_callback(int func_code, ...);  ;dH ; The func_code argument specifies which callback routine should be run.J ; The number and type of the remaining arguments depends on which callbackJ ; routine is being invoked.  The AARM is the only source I have found thatI ; defines the function codes and their corresponding arguments, although - mostI ; of the function codes appear as constants HWRPB_CRB$K_... in the systemmH ; header <hwrpbdef.h>.  The srm_callback routine must be called with theJ ; arguments that the console routine is expecting in registers r16-r21, in" ; the same order as the registers. ; '          .LIBRARY "SYS$LIBRARY:LIB.MLB"s          $HWRPBDEF$  	.LIBRARY "SYS$LIBRARY:STARLET.MLB"
  	$PDSCDEF&  	$ROUTINE NAME=SRM_CALLBACK,KIND=NULL  	.EXTERNAL EXE$GPQ_HWRPBr  	$LINKAGE_SECTION HWRPB:	.ADDRESS EXE$GPQ_HWRPBi  	$CODE_SECTION   	.BASE R27,$LS  ; I ; Load the value of the global symbol exe$gpq_hwrpb into r0.  This is the_G ; virtual address of the HardWare Restart Parameter Block (HWRPB, AARM  	 III-2.1).u ;?  	LDQ R0,HWRPB
  	LDQ R0,(R0)o ;tH ; Load the Console Routine Block (CRB, AARM III-2.3.8.1) offset into r1. ;    	LDQ R1,HWRPB$IQ_CRB_OFFSET(R0) ; H ; Add the CRB offset to the HWRPB base address: r0 will hold the virtual ; address of the CRB.n ;L  	ADDQ R0,R1,R0u ;iH ; Load the virtual address of the dispatch procedure descriptor into r0. ;d(  	LDQ R0,HWRPB_CRB$IQ_VA_DISPATCH_PD(R0) ; H ; Load the virtual address of the dispatch procedure entry point into r0! ; (OpenVMS Calling Standard, 3.4)e ;n  	LDQ R0,PDSC$Q_ENTRY(R0)  ; E ; Jump to the dispatch procedure without touching r26 so that it willt8 ; return to its caller's caller (srm_callback's caller). ;A  	JMP R31,(R0)   	$END_ROUTINE NAME=SRM_CALLBACK  	.END  ' [ CUT HERE -- DESCRIP.MMS -- CUT HERE ] 9 CFLAGS = /LIST/MACHINE_CODE/DEBUG/STANDARD=RELAXED_ANSI89e  % OBJECTS = SRM_CALLBACK.OBJ GETENV.OBJu   .C.OBJ :<  	$(CC)$(CFLAGS) $(MMS$SOURCE)+SYS$LIBRARY:SYS$LIB_C.TLB/LIB  
 .M64.OBJ :3  	MACRO/ALPHA/DEBUG/LIST/MACHINE_CODE $(MMS$SOURCE)-   GETENV : $(OBJECTS) B  	LINK/SYSEXE/MAP/FULL/EXECUTABLE=$(MMS$TARGET) $(MMS$SOURCE_LIST)   clean : 3  	IF F$SEARCH("*.OBJ") .NES. "" THEN DELETE *.OBJ;* 3  	IF F$SEARCH("*.EXE") .NES. "" THEN DELETE *.EXE;*r3  	IF F$SEARCH("*.LIS") .NES. "" THEN DELETE *.LIS;*r3  	IF F$SEARCH("*.MAP") .NES. "" THEN DELETE *.MAP;*t  	PURGEy   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:51:20 -0000o* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>$ Subject: Re: Shark Tank mentions VMS2 Message-ID: <cvhg68$92b$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>  @ "Rich Alderson" <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote in message( news:mddr7j8jvby.fsf@panix5.panix.com...  Q > RA81s died regularly in our DEC-20 shop[1] as well--MTBF was about 6 months andeN > we had 6 of 'em, so we replaced an HDA about once a month.  They were just a > bad product.  V The good thing about having drives like that was that they removed all the uncertaintyU about drive failure. You couldn't treat your backup procedures as an insurance policy & for something that might never happen.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:10:14 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com $ Subject: Re: Shark Tank mentions VMS- Message-ID: <87ll9fp5hl.fsf@prep.synonet.com>-  1 Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:   C > Early RA81s had a problem.  Supposedly, the glue used to hold the-E > heads to the arms would deteriorate and, eventually, the heads fell 3 > off.  This resulted in quite an impressive crash.   A > This was eventually fixed and we had all of our RA81s (even the  > working ones) replaced.m  F There are 3 (at least) RA81 HDA types around. Silver, gold, and black.( The black ones are pretty good over all.  E The problem was the glue used to fit the breather filter. The BOM hadbB a `do not substitute' warning on it, but acountants know better... Twice!  ( Never heard of heads falling off though.  B What they did do was get head slap if they where thumped the wrongC way. LF shaking was just the way to do it. RA9xs also would do thisp2 and DEC had diag firware and logging to detect it.   -- p< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:46:48 -0500_- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>l Subject: SPAMCOP reportingB Message-ID: <1109180087.ed311a260e671f30ea1c8a5d12282f9b@teranews>  H Whoever on decuserve reported some spam to SPAMCOP recently,  you should> have at the very least contacted me to advise you wanted my IP7 blacklisted insted of those of the anonymous remailers.h  F SPAMCOP doesn't even bother trying to contact the onwer of an IP, they* just send a copy to onwer of the IP block.  D Now I have to fight to clear my name with SPAMCOP because instead of9 focusing on the anonymous remailers, they focused on me. a  A Meanwhile, I can't send email and expect the recipient to get it.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:57:23 -05001- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Taming the ever resizing XmFileSelectionDialog ?eB Message-ID: <1109169837.5634be1e6c8c971260295cdc88f70a76@teranews>  8 Has anyone found a way to tame the decwindows version ofC XmFileSelectionDialog so that it doesn't resize itself whenever youb2 change directory ? I find this extremely annoying.  E I have also not found a way to tell it to give more space to the filerD list XmList widget than to the directlory list one. If I stretch theG dialog, only the directlory list expands, the file list remains small. o  F It seems to override any settings you give it, and seems to ignore theH documented XmNresizePolicy (I set it to XMRESIZE_GROW but it still findsF a way to shrink itself when I change directories. Probably something I+ am doing wrong, but the rest seems to work.c  H (I've been testing using a .dat resource file to make is faster to checkC something instead of recompiling).  Wrote a small program that only.# display the file selection dialog.)1   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 07:16:32 -0800 From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.ukp= Subject: Re: Taming the ever resizing XmFileSelectionDialog ? C Message-ID: <1109171792.520992.322150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>b   JF Mezei wrote:d: > Has anyone found a way to tame the decwindows version ofE > XmFileSelectionDialog so that it doesn't resize itself whenever you  > change directory ?  * I haven't but a few hints that might help.  @ A file selection dialog is just a dialog shell containing a fileD selection box. The return value from the create function is the file@ selection box not the dialog shell. The create function sets the= arguments you pass on both widgets except that it also forces00 XmNallowShellResize to TRUE on the Dialog shell.  ? A note in the Motif FAQ says you can set RESIZE_NONE to stop itr changing size.  G You can use XmFileSelectionBoxGetChild to get the constituent parts and6$ should be able to set sizes on them.   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:03:36 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>f= Subject: Re: Taming the ever resizing XmFileSelectionDialog ?tB Message-ID: <1109181093.8039032628cfd8e9bd36e79706d7b786@teranews>    martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk wrote:A > A note in the Motif FAQ says you can set RESIZE_NONE to stop it- > changing size.  F This does prevent the whole dialog from resizing, but does not preventD the 2 scrolled lists (directory and filenames) from resizing inside.  @ Also, I specify DirList.width: 100 and  ItemsList.width: 400 andG listSizePolicy of XmCONSTANT, yet, neither are respected. The file list@E gets adjusted to what it wants it to be, and the directlryu list then D expands to cover the whole withd of the dialog (which I set to 800).  F So, instead of having the dir at 100 and files at 400, it is more like$ file sat 100 and the dirlist at 600.  I > You can use XmFileSelectionBoxGetChild to get the constituent parts andh& > should be able to set sizes on them.  F Doesn't work. It *seems* that after VMS has built the list of items inD the scrolled lists, it overrides any size that wa specified when the7 widget was created, escept in its first instantiation.    G So I was wondering if anyone had experienced this, found a solution, or D if I was the only one to ever had had this problem (in which case it+ could be just some typo I am oblivious to).    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:51:41 -0500F- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>g= Subject: Re: Taming the ever resizing XmFileSelectionDialog ?eB Message-ID: <1109183974.83fcddf6cce80197e6b79f71a9f973dc@teranews>  G OK, got resizePolicy: XmRESIZE_NONE and XmRESIZE_GROW to work properly.a  H However, the scrolled lists inside the dialog still change size at will.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:25:44 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>m) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centera8 Message-ID: <gqko11ldbomncva9cr3p7m75rabc9ana6v@4ax.com>  K On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:28:16 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t wrote:  ? >Without a clock, how could a chip decide that it has expired ?c  M Just have an expiry date hard coded in the chip & then let the printer driver  read it.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurp   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:27:23 GMTt! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>r) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centerA8 Message-ID: <gsko119l4snmr6truk5rcbi3tbods0jp1i@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 20:08:23 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:i  S >In article <gaidnYILKp2FEYbfRVn-sg@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:a >>N >>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20050222/tc_n >>m/tech_hp_printers_dce >> >>3 >>Lawsuit Says HP Printer Cartridges Die Before Used >> >>F >>LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A Georgia woman has sued Hewlett-Packard Co.G >>(NYSE:HPQ - news), claiming the ink cartridges for their printers areyJ >>secretly programmed to expire on a certain date, in some cases rendering; >>them useless before they are even installed in a printer._ >>J >>The suit filed in Santa Clara Superior Court in northern California lastM >>Thursday seeks to represent anyone in the United States who purchased an HPpJ >>inkjet printer since Feb. 2001. HP is the world's No. 1 computer printer >>maker. >>9 >>HP spokesmen were not immediately available to comment.f >>K >>HP ink cartridges use a chip technology to sense when they are low on ink N >>and advise the user to make a change. But, the suit claims, those chips alsoM >>shut down the cartridges at a predetermined date regardless of whether theya >>are empty. >>L >>"The smart chip is dually engineered to prematurely register ink depletionM >>and to render a cartridge unusable through the use of a built-in expirationo< >>date that is not revealed to the consumer," the suit said. >>N >>The suit, which seeks class-action status, asks for restitution, damages and >>other compensation.w >> >>--/ >>OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.s >iH >FWIW, someone told me this several months back and I looked at him likeH >the next thing he was going to tell me was that he was also abducted by
 >aliens.    O I heard of this several years ago but in relation to laser toner cartridges. It>M does make sense to have some sort of expiry date as toner becomes caked & inkh dries out over time.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azuro   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 05:33:05 -0500T- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>o) Subject: Re: There goes the profit center B Message-ID: <1109153995.1e2c913066585800fe056ba29f978b2b@teranews>   Nigel Barker wrote:OQ > I heard of this several years ago but in relation to laser toner cartridges. It O > does make sense to have some sort of expiry date as toner becomes caked & ink  > dries out over time.  H A printer can make relative time comparisons. For instance, if cartridgeF has been installed for X hours of printer operation, the printer might% use its WMD to destroy the cartridge.u  D If the printer has a battery operated clock inside, this timer could. still click even when printer is powered off.   H However, when you instert a "new" cartridge, the printer cannot know how@ long that cartridge has been sitting packaged/sealed on a shelf.  E My gut feeling is that it is just some chemical reaction that happensgH with aging of the cartridge to cause it to stop working (on purpose). HpF can argue that the inks deteriorate with time and may damage the printD heads, so it is best for the cartridge to declare itself inoperative after a certain amount of time.   H So when HP brags about how much R&D goes into its ink cartridges, we nowD know where it goes: find ways to have the cartridge self-desturtc byH itself after a certain amouht of time without any puff of smoke, forcingD low usage customers to still buty more ink at regular intervals. :-)    > This smacks of monopoly practices and unfair trading tactics.,C especially when you consider how much they gouge customers for ink.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:36:41 GMTn" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centerL0 Message-ID: <00A3FCF2.1DC674BE@SendSpamHere.ORG>  d In article <421C000D.5020305@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes: {...snip...}D >I first heard this about a year ago.  It seems that some corporate F >buyers got a price break buying ink cartridges by the case, but when H >they got to a certain point, the new, unused cartridges would not work. > H >I have also heard (but have not confirmed), that there is a pin on the G >cartridge that can be cut to disable this.  But this dodge only works lD >with certain models of printers that can accept undated cartridges. >eG >The printer doesn't have a clock, but the PC software does.  The vast oE >majority of the "smarts" for most HP DeskJet printers is in the the r >Windows print driver.  G I'm safe then.  No PeeCee and no HP printer.  A d|i|g|i|t|a|l LNCO2, a ?F Canon i9900, and an Epson R300 (I love the BlueTooth support).  One ofG the nice things about all three of these is that I only need to replacep+ the color cartridges that NEED replacing.      -- aK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMd            o5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:37:52 +0100e! From: Soterro <soterroatyahoocom>a) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centerg: Message-ID: <421c6a5d$0$6576$4d4ef98e@read.news.ch.uu.net>   Nigel Barker wrote: O > Just have an expiry date hard coded in the chip & then let the printer drivero
 > read it.  F I'd rather put a production date for the lot. That's perfectly legal, F isn't it. Then it's up to the driver to decide 'aaah I dont need such 
 old junk'.G I wonder how come there's no linux enthusiast yet up to analyzing what BI goes through the port for an old and a new cartridge :) (or is it only a -F Win problem?) I suppose because also the affected buyer percentage is F really small, so the expiry date seems to be set to a reasonable time 
 after all.   Sg   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 04:13:32 -08005 From: "greigaln@netscape.net" <greigaln@netscape.net>d) Subject: Re: There goes the profit center@C Message-ID: <1109160812.676086.211780@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>P  D Don't know about HP printers but Epson printers exchange informationE back and forwards bettween the cartridge chip and the printer driver.fD Software works out how much ink has been used in a print or cleaningF operation and then updates the cartridge. The chips intentionally lock@ out long before the cartridge is actually empy so I use a littleF utility  under Windows which overrides the drivers calculations so theG cartridge thinks it is always full. I change the cartridge when the inka6 actually runs out and my cartrdges last twice as long.  G Epson say this can damage the printer but I've seen no real evidence of#C this and it is exactly how older Epsons worked until they added thev chips to hinder refilling.  F Printers also keep count of the amount of ink soaked up by an internalG resovoir. Once this is full (or counted as full) the printer will  stopnF working. The longer the driver thinks the printer has been off for theG more ink will be run off and head cleaning invoked before printing . SotE there is a time sensitive element involved. Again there are utilitiesr? that can reset these counts but Epson make it harder with newer.	 printers.e  G So if Epson do all this HP probably do to. Details below of the utility  I use:   ---0
 Alan Greig   SSC Service Utility 2.91  G This is fully noncommercial project aimed to provide Epson Stylus userst* with maximum control other their printers.  G If You find this utility useful, please, support author by transferringp8 some amount of WM (www.wmtransfer.com) to E843153782549.  . IT IS ILLEGAL TO TAKE MONEY FOR THIS SOFTWARE!  B IT IS ILLEGAL TO DISTRIBUTE THIS SOFTWARE FROM ANY SITE OTHER THEN WWW.SSCLG.COM !t  1 Please, contact author at official utility site -u! http://www.ssclg.com/epson.shtml.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:02:09 +0100a& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centerq, Message-ID: <383d69F5hf7hvU1@individual.net>   Chris Scheers wrote:  " > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > = >> In article <gaidnYILKp2FEYbfRVn-sg@igs.net>, "John Smith" P >> <a@nonymous.com> writes:  >>Q >>> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20050222/tc_n i >>>4 >>> m/tech_hp_printers_dct >>>v >>>D5 >>> Lawsuit Says HP Printer Cartridges Die Before User >>>o >>>mH >>> LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A Georgia woman has sued Hewlett-Packard Co.I >>> (NYSE:HPQ - news), claiming the ink cartridges for their printers areoL >>> secretly programmed to expire on a certain date, in some cases rendering= >>> them useless before they are even installed in a printer.  >>>fL >>> The suit filed in Santa Clara Superior Court in northern California lastJ >>> Thursday seeks to represent anyone in the United States who purchased 	 >>> an HPeL >>> inkjet printer since Feb. 2001. HP is the world's No. 1 computer printer
 >>> maker. >>>r; >>> HP spokesmen were not immediately available to comment.l >>>tJ >>> HP ink cartridges use a chip technology to sense when they are low on  >>> ink=F >>> and advise the user to make a change. But, the suit claims, those  >>> chips alsoC >>> shut down the cartridges at a predetermined date regardless of   >>> whether they >>> are empty. >>>=E >>> "The smart chip is dually engineered to prematurely register ink s
 >>> depletion"E >>> and to render a cartridge unusable through the use of a built-in - >>> expiration> >>> date that is not revealed to the consumer," the suit said. >>>:E >>> The suit, which seeks class-action status, asks for restitution, - >>> damages andc >>> other compensation.a >>>e >>> -- 51 >>> OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.e >> >> >>J >> FWIW, someone told me this several months back and I looked at him likeJ >> the next thing he was going to tell me was that he was also abducted by >> aliens.   >  > E > I first heard this about a year ago.  It seems that some corporate oG > buyers got a price break buying ink cartridges by the case, but when bI > they got to a certain point, the new, unused cartridges would not work.G >   ) The first report I saw was in April 2003.e  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9220   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:13:10 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>#) Subject: Re: There goes the profit center-8 Message-ID: <c42p11dvpjpto3bh9lqrushh5asfu3ri36@4ax.com>  K On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 05:33:05 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t wrote:  I >However, when you instert a "new" cartridge, the printer cannot know how2A >long that cartridge has been sitting packaged/sealed on a shelf.   D It can if the chip on that cartridge stores the date of manufacture.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azuro   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:31:15 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ) Subject: Re: There goes the profit center-, Message-ID: <x9ydncSDdI87GIHfRVn-og@igs.net>   Rob Young wrote:; > In article <qfOdnS9dRvBfBYbfRVn-hg@igs.net>, "John Smith"C > <a@nonymous.com> writes: >> Malcolm Dunnett wrote:  >N >>B >> That said, I wonder why it is that an ink cartridge impregniblyD >> sealed in a laminated foil/plastic pouch which is placed inside aE >> protective cardboard box usually has an expiry date of only 1 year:> >> hence even when purchased from retailers with high turnover >> (Staples, Costco, etc...)?' >> >l@ > Same reason triple sealed tylenol and what not have expirationG > dates.  Conspiracy.  They want you to have doubts about effectivenesse@ > and throw them out and buy more.  Al Qaeda and Putin again are > involved!e    L There is ample proof that nearly all medications are 100% safe and effective after their state expiry dates.f  K Several  studies published in various medical and pharmicological  journalsvK attest to this, as does the US military - they conducted their own study on J the safety and effectiveness of all the medicines they *stockpile* for warG and found that nearly everything was safe ffor at least 1 year past theiH stated expiry date and than many were safe & effective for up to 7 years after the expiry date.  	 <sarcasm> F I guess making aspirnin is orders of magnitude more sophisticated than making HP printer cartridges. 
 </sarcasm>  E I could understand if HP had labelled the ink cartridges with a "BestK6 Before" date rather than an Exipry or Use Before date.  K These are very different legal concepts. Best Before implies 100% effective L up to and including the stated date and that it may be acceptable thereafter but at the buyer's risk.  4 Expiry / Use Before implies a hard termination date.     --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.P   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:32:53 -0500t# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centern, Message-ID: <3eSdnd8l2_CaG4HfRVn-vw@igs.net>   Rob Young wrote:G > In article <1109103352.4842cee92713f0f1b9e024f705bed932@teranews>, JFs. > Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >> John Smith wrote:H >>> LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A Georgia woman has sued Hewlett-Packard Co.E >>> (NYSE:HPQ - news), claiming the ink cartridges for their printerseF >>> are secretly programmed to expire on a certain date, in some casesG >>> rendering them useless before they are even installed in a printer.t >>D >> Because of lack of VMS marketing by HP, I bought an EPSON printer >> for my mac. >>F >> However, whihc I have no loyalty to HP, I have to wonder about thisE >> story. Cartridges do not have batteries, right ? So they coudl noto >> haveO/ >> a clock either. Do HP printers have clocks ?3 >>A >> Without a clock, how could a chip decide that it has expired ?  >> >e7 > NTP.  I have it on good authority that they work witha= > Russian NTP servers.  The conspiracy here of course is thats> > Al Qaeda is behind it in conjunction with Putin and remnants? > of the KGB that are still very pissed off.  Idea is to damageoB > America corporations one at a time, a domino effect if you will.    L I think you've had the foil hat off long enough now Rob. Time to get back to your duty station at Roswell.d   --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:17:24 GMTb! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>@) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centerr8 Message-ID: <d62p1111qqss89r3t4n6nsgl82omq6l81u@4ax.com>  K On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 05:33:05 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>a wrote:  F >My gut feeling is that it is just some chemical reaction that happensF >with aging of the cartridge to cause it to stop working (on purpose).  A What rubbish! If you turn the clock back on the PC it will print.l    J >HP can argue that the inks deteriorate with time and may damage the printE >heads, so it is best for the cartridge to declare itself inoperativet  >after a certain amount of time.  N It seems a reasonable argument. Just like putting a best before date on a foodP item. It may not harm you but it may not taste so good if eaten after that date.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:29:53 -05000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>j) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centeroB Message-ID: <1109168188.357283a19868d7d1f61144338106f5ca@teranews>   Nigel Barker wrote:6B > What rubbish! If you turn the clock back on the PC it will print  G I have to disagree with the concept that a printer gets its date from a:2 PC and that there is a real date on the cartridge.  F Consider the cases when you operate the printer directly from a camera without a PC involved.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 06:26:08 -08005 From: "greigaln@netscape.net" <greigaln@netscape.net>t) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centeriB Message-ID: <1109168768.534013.60040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   ---uG I have to disagree with the concept that a printer gets its date from a 2 PC and that there is a real date on the cartridge. --  A On my Epson C62 if I click the Info button  in the printer statuswD monitor I see Cartridge Production Date: 2003/07. So in theory Epson8 can enforce a use by limit assuming a date is available.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2005 14:31:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centeri, Message-ID: <383ie1F5ki0acU2@individual.net>  B In article <1109168188.357283a19868d7d1f61144338106f5ca@teranews>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Nigel Barker wrote:-C >> What rubbish! If you turn the clock back on the PC it will printu > I > I have to disagree with the concept that a printer gets its date from aD4 > PC and that there is a real date on the cartridge. > H > Consider the cases when you operate the printer directly from a camera > without a PC involved.  3 Every digital camera I have seen has a clock in it.e   bill   -- fJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:20:04 GMTn& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centerr0 Message-ID: <U22Td.456$yv6.335@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Smith wrote:g   > N > There is ample proof that nearly all medications are 100% safe and effective! > after their state expiry dates.p >   H As the brother of a pharmacist, I'll add a little more to this comment. I   Note that John Smith said "nearly".  The biggest exception to the rule  H is tricyclines.  They actually undergo chemical changes with age.  They E become toxic to humans.  With most of the medications, what actually 9H happens is that the coatings can harden with age so they don't dissolve D at the correct rate or even at the correct location in the GI tract.       -- n John   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:11:42 -0800s' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>e) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centerr+ Message-ID: <cvidgf$9qq$1@naig.caltech.edu>e   John Smith wrote::   > <sarcasm>rH > I guess making aspirnin is orders of magnitude more sophisticated than > making HP printer cartridges.e > </sarcasm>  0 I wouldn't know, I've never seen "aspirnin" ;-).  5 Aspirin is easy to make, it just isn't easy to store. 3 Water (vapor, from the air) causes aspirin to breakH6 down releasing acetic acid. So a quick sniff will tell> you if the bottle is fresh or not.  If stored in a totally dry8 environment it would probably keep forever.  In a steamy6 bathroom it's usually pretty vinegary in under a year.2 Supposedly coated aspirin lasts longer because the" shell keeps most of the water out.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:00:41 GMTu* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centere0 Message-ID: <dx3Td.464$Wz6.236@news.cpqcorp.net>  ( Thank goodness this thread is marked OT.  H In any case - why would "ink" have an expiration date?  On printers with
 semi-fixedJ permanent heads, they can be damaged if the ink has broken down over time. ThehK ink has more components in it than just dyes.  A consumer would probably bei moreF upset that old ink had damaged the printer and caused it to need to be	 repaired.t      5 "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in messageV, news:w6mdnYxXeaPgS4bfRVn-uQ@mpowercom.net...< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message> > news:1109103352.4842cee92713f0f1b9e024f705bed932@teranews...G > > However, whihc I have no loyalty to HP, I have to wonder about this-K > > story. Cartridges do not have batteries, right ? So they coudl not havec0 > > a clock either. Do HP printers have clocks ? > > B > > Without a clock, how could a chip decide that it has expired ? > >7J > All a cartridge needs is memory.  Dallas Semi builds serial non-volatile: > EEPROM chips for things like this, at very cheap prices. >(K > There is an electrical contact between cartridge and printer, which meanshF > the embedded processor in the printer can save data in the cartridge memory.hH > Expiration can be based on power on hours, rather than calendar clock. ItH > would be a simple matter to have the printer periodically update a POH > counter in the cartridge.t >sH > Anything with an embedded processor has a clock, but not necessarily aH > real-time clock calendar.  A printer doesn't need to know the calendar date,iJ > just how long it's been turned on with a particular cartridge installed.F > Non-volatile semi memory doesn't require batteries either; there are several = > memory technologies that retain contents when powered down.c >eH > In technical terms there is nothing to stop HP from building in a time limit I > on cartridges.  I don't know if they actually do that.  I suppose we'lleK > learn from the lawsuit if that's what's going on.  If HP settles to avoidn7 > discovery that's tantamount to an admission of guilt.d >   Jack Peacock >b >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:13:12 GMTk* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>) Subject: Re: There goes the profit center 0 Message-ID: <YI3Td.466$Kz6.242@news.cpqcorp.net>  ( <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote in message= news:1109160812.676086.211780@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...SF > Don't know about HP printers but Epson printers exchange informationG > back and forwards bettween the cartridge chip and the printer driver.}F > Software works out how much ink has been used in a print or cleaningH > operation and then updates the cartridge. The chips intentionally lockB > out long before the cartridge is actually empy so I use a littleH > utility  under Windows which overrides the drivers calculations so theI > cartridge thinks it is always full. I change the cartridge when the ink 8 > actually runs out and my cartrdges last twice as long. >CI > Epson say this can damage the printer but I've seen no real evidence of E > this and it is exactly how older Epsons worked until they added thei > chips to hinder refilling. >r  H Yeah, everyone has fun until someone pokes an eye out ;-)  In this case,J everyones happy until you ruin your printer.  Let's say it only happens toH 1 out of 1000 cartridges.  You (as a consumer) might get away with doingL it *forever* without a problem (after all, the odds *are* 1000:1).  From theI *printer* companies point of view however, if all their consumers startedsE doing this - they might have warrantee/repair/quality/image issues ifeE one out of 1000 cartridges broke *someones* printer.  See, *they* are C guaranteed to see the broken printers, while you only have a 1000:1n. risk of ever seeing it.  Kind of like smoking.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 12:00:54 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: There goes the profit center 3 Message-ID: <50ulhsu$F0PH@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  r In article <1109103352.4842cee92713f0f1b9e024f705bed932@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > J > The only explanation I could find is if HP has a chip built with certainI > chemicals that break down with time, rendering the electronics useless.SR > This would limit the number of times you can refill the chip in the grey market.  E    I think rather HP builds cartridges with certain chemicals in themL    that dry out.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 12:06:43 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centerD3 Message-ID: <8xeBJCXDtlAN@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  U In article <cvidgf$9qq$1@naig.caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:R > 7 > Aspirin is easy to make, it just isn't easy to store. 5 > Water (vapor, from the air) causes aspirin to breakd8 > down releasing acetic acid. So a quick sniff will tell@ > you if the bottle is fresh or not.  If stored in a totally dry: > environment it would probably keep forever.  In a steamy8 > bathroom it's usually pretty vinegary in under a year.4 > Supposedly coated aspirin lasts longer because the$ > shell keeps most of the water out.  A    The bathroom resident "medicine cabinet" is the worst place in     your home to store medicine._   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:27:23 +0800T From: prep@prep.synonet.comR) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centerJ- Message-ID: <87hdk3p4p0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>S  1 Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:   D > I first heard this about a year ago.  It seems that some corporateF > buyers got a price break buying ink cartridges by the case, but whenC > they got to a certain point, the new, unused cartridges would not	 > work.C  D And depending on model and where you are, you can save a large chunkE by buying and shipping the cartriges from overseas. HP is now `regionA locking' printers and ink.   -- -< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.T@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 10:42:22 -08005 From: "greigaln@netscape.net" <greigaln@netscape.net>d) Subject: Re: There goes the profit centerlB Message-ID: <1109184142.211559.13740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  G Of course I understand the possibility of damaging the printer but as I G can buy a new printer for less than  the cost of official Epson Black +aE Colour cartridges I'll live with it. I did ask if anyone had reportedj> this utility damaging the printer before installing it. Nobody0 responded negatively. But your mileage may vary.  G If someone is willing to run an ink count reset utility and understandsu/ the risks then that's their own responsibility.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:39:57 -0500m# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>aK Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customers , Message-ID: <s9ydncij3IoyGoHfRVn-iQ@igs.net>   Bill Todd wrote:   <major snip>  $ Bill, was all this really necessary?  I We all know that Compaq's marketing efforts for VMS mostly sucked. We all - know that HP's efforts in the same are worse.b  K We all know that we have to be proactive in marketing VMS to the point thatoL the shareholders wake from their stupor in order to put pressure on the BoD.  @ Let's put our collective energies towards this goal instead, ok?   --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2005 13:53:33 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customersl, Message-ID: <383g6tF5jllbcU1@individual.net>  + In article <421BF45E.AC530B3F@comcast.net>,e5 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:- > J > One of my major points is: don't wait for hp to pick up the ball and runG > with it - it ain't happ'nin'. Get over it. If it is to be, it's up to-@ > WE, and at an individual level, if it is to be, it's up to ME. >   G I realize that people here are getting tired of all the negativity, buthC something even more frightening just struck me.  Does everyone heretD realize that should HP give up on VMS (or fail copmpletely and ceaseB to exist as a viable company!) the current crop of users will haveD no more than one year to migrate to another system before their PAKsB all expire?  It's really nice to see everyone pushing for VMS, but@ the control still lies in HP's hands and they have been known to drop the ball before.-   bill     -- -J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 05:51:08 -0800a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>oK Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customersn( Message-ID: <opsmnkrix5zgicya@hyrrokkin>  6 On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:06:24 -0600, David J Dachtera  " <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:   > Tom Linden wrote:n >>7 >> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:38:13 -0600, David J Dachteray% >> <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:o >> >> > Tom Linden wrote: >> >>(6 >> >> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:35:10 GMT, Kenneth Farmer, >> >> <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> wrote: >> >>tE >> >> > This isn't so much targeted at you Tom but everyone in cov...i >> >> >aG >> >> > Keith is right on target.  This is the result of several peoplem
 >> >> outside 
 >> >> > ofI >> >> > HP.  However several people inside HP are involved and are always- >> >> > willing toF >> >> > assist.  When it comes from the community (customer base) it   >> obviously >> >> > carries more weight. >> >> > K >> >> > Everyone wanted to see VMS mentioned more in the press.  Well, somez >> >> > inside4 >> >> > and outside have made sure that's happening. >> >> >eJ >> >> > It's actually very simple. Email trade press writers and tell them
 >> >> theyH >> >> > should/need to write and article about VMS.  Tell them you can  	 >> musterg	 >> >> thea) >> >> > community to provide quotes, etc.u >> >> >eK >> >> > The bad part is these writers are always on a tight schedule.  Theyf >> >> > usually J >> >> > contact you days before the article needs to be written, hence the >> >> urgent> >> >> > messages we've had to push out every couple of months. >> >> >_I >> >> > I'll tell you one way things could be made easier.  I can start at
 >> >> list ofiK >> >> > people that are willing to talk to the press and their company is  - >> will-
 >> >> > allow-I >> >> > it.  The volunteers can name certain areas of "specialty" such as@ >> >> > disasterJ >> >> > tolerance, clustering, rdb, etc.  I can then post this list with   >> theH >> >> > specialties (no names).  The list will target writers and tell  
 >> them we >> >> > canoJ >> >> > assemble the customers quickly so that they can be interviewed.    >> Sound
 >> >> > good?l >> >> >eB >> >> > Take a look at this page and let me know what you think... >> >> >f3 >> >> > http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Press: >> >>d9 >> >> Looks good.  I will send the link to our customers.e >> >>hI >> >> What flabbergasts me, is that (Now I'm beginning to sound like Johna >> >> Smith)L >> >> is that because HP isn't willing/able to market the product in spite   >> of 	 >> >> theaJ >> >> fact that VMS contributed $867Million gross profit to fiscal 2004,   >> theH >> >> loyalist/guerillas are trying to do it for them, without a budget! >> >> 3 >> >> Can't recall a similar situation in the past.  >> >J >> > Oh, COME now! You *MUST* have witnessed SOME situation SOMEwhere in   >> your H >> > career where everything stagnated until people of leadership came   >> along >> > and took the reins..o >>J >> But not from customers or people outside the company.  That is a first,9 >> but then I have only been in the business for 39 yearst >o	 > Really?  >eI > Who made "luggable" "personal" computers a practical reality? (Hint: It2 > wasn't IBM.) OsburneF >rD > Who put MS-DOS and later WhineBloze on "every" desktop in America? > (Hint: It wasn't Micro$lop.) IBMe >eJ > Who made Intel THE supplier of microprocessor chips to the world? (Hint: > It wasn't Intel.)E >N	 MicrosoftIG > Who made gasoline one of the more important commodities of the moderno3 > world? (Hint: It wasn't the petroleum companies.)- >- GM > Need any more examples?1 >5 Those examples aren't germanei     -- mC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/b   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:01:01 +0000F- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customersv, Message-ID: <383gpkF5l7469U1@individual.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  - > In article <421BF45E.AC530B3F@comcast.net>, 7 > 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:e > J >>One of my major points is: don't wait for hp to pick up the ball and runG >>with it - it ain't happ'nin'. Get over it. If it is to be, it's up toj@ >>WE, and at an individual level, if it is to be, it's up to ME. >eI > I realize that people here are getting tired of all the negativity, but"E > something even more frightening just struck me.  Does everyone here=F > realize that should HP give up on VMS (or fail copmpletely and ceaseD > to exist as a viable company!) the current crop of users will haveF > no more than one year to migrate to another system before their PAKsD > all expire?  It's really nice to see everyone pushing for VMS, butB > the control still lies in HP's hands and they have been known to > drop the ball before.r  
 Oh really ...n  ? If VMS were to become totally orphaned (i.e. belong to no-one),r? then expect there to be published pretty-damned-quick a utility 2 for generating certain kernel-mode logical names !  = Not that I've ever done so ;-)  At least I'm not admitting itp here in public ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:39:05 -0500c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>hK Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence CustomersiB Message-ID: <1109168742.93106bd0ad3cef6326f580eb6bd4eda4@teranews>   Roy Omond wrote:A > If VMS were to become totally orphaned (i.e. belong to no-one),rA > then expect there to be published pretty-damned-quick a utilityg4 > for generating certain kernel-mode logical names ! > ? > Not that I've ever done so ;-)  At least I'm not admitting ith > here in public ;-)  H Wasn't there someone who attended a DECUS event with a t-Shirt with codeF written on it to get the LMF system to just grant all licence requestsA from software ? (This would have been at about the 5.0 timeframe)   H Shirley, Hoff or FredK would find a way to see similar code make its way0 to hobbyists without them being traceable... :-)  G And maybe they could accidentally NFS mount the source code of VMS on arG system with inadequate firewall and a few hobbysists might accidentally-D stumble onto it and preserve it for etermity (allowing hobbysists to continue to develop VMS).2  A If VMS is truly mission critical to the US military, then it willcD intervene at the last minute, just as it did to save Iridium minutesG before the satellites were to be de-orbited into nice fireworks display  over the pacific.e   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2005 14:28:49 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customerse, Message-ID: <383i91F5ki0acU1@individual.net>  , In article <383gpkF5l7469U1@individual.net>,0 	Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > . >> In article <421BF45E.AC530B3F@comcast.net>,8 >> 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >>  K >>>One of my major points is: don't wait for hp to pick up the ball and run H >>>with it - it ain't happ'nin'. Get over it. If it is to be, it's up toA >>>WE, and at an individual level, if it is to be, it's up to ME.i >>J >> I realize that people here are getting tired of all the negativity, butF >> something even more frightening just struck me.  Does everyone hereG >> realize that should HP give up on VMS (or fail copmpletely and ceasetE >> to exist as a viable company!) the current crop of users will havetG >> no more than one year to migrate to another system before their PAKsiE >> all expire?  It's really nice to see everyone pushing for VMS, but C >> the control still lies in HP's hands and they have been known to  >> drop the ball before. >  > Oh really ...p > A > If VMS were to become totally orphaned (i.e. belong to no-one),r  @ That never happens.  Even if HP goes bust VMS would still belong0 to them (or the bankruptcy court).  (ie. Primos)  A > then expect there to be published pretty-damned-quick a utilityc4 > for generating certain kernel-mode logical names !  > And what legitimate company could use that?  I know for a fact@ the University's lawyers would never allow it here.  And I doubt< many people wold be willing to put their jobs on the line by- doing something as blatantly illegal as that.y   bill   -- wJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:16:17 -0500r# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tK Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customerss, Message-ID: <1o6dnfXzS6LLMYHfRVn-hA@igs.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:- > In article <421BF45E.AC530B3F@comcast.net>,a6 > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >>G >> One of my major points is: don't wait for hp to pick up the ball and F >> run with it - it ain't happ'nin'. Get over it. If it is to be, it'sG >> up to WE, and at an individual level, if it is to be, it's up to ME.  >> >oE > I realize that people here are getting tired of all the negativity,-D > but something even more frightening just struck me.  Does everyoneE > here realize that should HP give up on VMS (or fail copmpletely and E > cease to exist as a viable company!) the current crop of users willk > haveF > no more than one year to migrate to another system before their PAKsD > all expire?  It's really nice to see everyone pushing for VMS, butB > the control still lies in HP's hands and they have been known to > drop the ball before.d    : FTC complaint and local state consumer protection maybe...   example:  Assistant Attorney Generalh+ Consumer Protection/ Austin Regional Officeo PO Box 12548 Austin, TX 78711-2548p 512-463-2185 Fax: 512-463-8301e Web site: www.oag.state.tx.us  J However with the recently enacted legislation (Feb. 18th) limiting certainI aspects of class-action suits in favor of large corporations, don't thinkg' that HP isn't re-examining its options.n  0 http://writ.news.findlaw.com/sebok/20050221.html   --  - OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:20:56 -0800r# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>eK Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customers ( Message-ID: <opsmnro6a5zgicya@hyrrokkin>  F On 23 Feb 2005 14:28:49 GMT, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  . > In article <383gpkF5l7469U1@individual.net>,2 > 	Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:a >>/ >>> In article <421BF45E.AC530B3F@comcast.net>,d9 >>> 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:w >>>sK >>>> One of my major points is: don't wait for hp to pick up the ball and  e >>>> runJ >>>> with it - it ain't happ'nin'. Get over it. If it is to be, it's up toC >>>> WE, and at an individual level, if it is to be, it's up to ME.k >>> K >>> I realize that people here are getting tired of all the negativity, butwG >>> something even more frightening just struck me.  Does everyone herefH >>> realize that should HP give up on VMS (or fail copmpletely and ceaseF >>> to exist as a viable company!) the current crop of users will haveH >>> no more than one year to migrate to another system before their PAKsF >>> all expire?  It's really nice to see everyone pushing for VMS, butD >>> the control still lies in HP's hands and they have been known to >>> drop the ball before.e >> >> Oh really ... >>B >> If VMS were to become totally orphaned (i.e. belong to no-one), > B > That never happens.  Even if HP goes bust VMS would still belong2 > to them (or the bankruptcy court).  (ie. Primos)  J I thought Computervision bought them.  I wonder where the sources are now? >DB >> then expect there to be published pretty-damned-quick a utility5 >> for generating certain kernel-mode logical names !t >/@ > And what legitimate company could use that?  I know for a factB > the University's lawyers would never allow it here.  And I doubt> > many people wold be willing to put their jobs on the line by/ > doing something as blatantly illegal as that.e >  > bill >        -- nC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:49:52 -0500.' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>/K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customers 0 Message-ID: <111pg15cnbpm134@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:- > In article <421BF45E.AC530B3F@comcast.net>,d7 > 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:f > J >>One of my major points is: don't wait for hp to pick up the ball and runG >>with it - it ain't happ'nin'. Get over it. If it is to be, it's up toa@ >>WE, and at an individual level, if it is to be, it's up to ME. >> >  > I > I realize that people here are getting tired of all the negativity, buteE > something even more frightening just struck me.  Does everyone here F > realize that should HP give up on VMS (or fail copmpletely and ceaseD > to exist as a viable company!) the current crop of users will haveF > no more than one year to migrate to another system before their PAKsD > all expire?  It's really nice to see everyone pushing for VMS, butB > the control still lies in HP's hands and they have been known to > drop the ball before.  >  > bill >  >   B I'm thinking that you're talking about the hobbyist licenses, not I commercial license PAKs.  I haven't seen a new one in some years, but in eG the past these things did not have a lifetime.  They were forever.  If eI this practice has changed, then I'd like to hear about it.  One reason I aF don't think it has changed is that probably only people with software F support would get updated PAKs, and I've never heard of any users VMS 7 systems stop working because of license PAK expiration.c   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 11:58:34 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)rK Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customerse3 Message-ID: <KmCP9wrVbpb2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <383g6tF5jllbcU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > I > I realize that people here are getting tired of all the negativity, but E > something even more frightening just struck me.  Does everyone here F > realize that should HP give up on VMS (or fail copmpletely and ceaseD > to exist as a viable company!) the current crop of users will haveF > no more than one year to migrate to another system before their PAKs
 > all expire?H  C    My commercially purchased PAks have no expiration date.  Only my2D    hobbyist PAKs expire.  I understand some educational PAKs expire.  G    I think a great many of the current crop of users will be unaffected-    by loss of future PAK dates.n   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2005 18:41:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customersx, Message-ID: <38412qF5h671gU1@individual.net>  ( In article <opsmnro6a5zgicya@hyrrokkin>,& 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:H > On 23 Feb 2005 14:28:49 GMT, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: > / >> In article <383gpkF5l7469U1@individual.net>,n3 >> 	Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:e >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>s0 >>>> In article <421BF45E.AC530B3F@comcast.net>,: >>>> 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >>>>L >>>>> One of my major points is: don't wait for hp to pick up the ball and  	 >>>>> runaK >>>>> with it - it ain't happ'nin'. Get over it. If it is to be, it's up toeD >>>>> WE, and at an individual level, if it is to be, it's up to ME. >>>>L >>>> I realize that people here are getting tired of all the negativity, butH >>>> something even more frightening just struck me.  Does everyone hereI >>>> realize that should HP give up on VMS (or fail copmpletely and ceasehG >>>> to exist as a viable company!) the current crop of users will haveiI >>>> no more than one year to migrate to another system before their PAKs G >>>> all expire?  It's really nice to see everyone pushing for VMS, butdE >>>> the control still lies in HP's hands and they have been known tot >>>> drop the ball before. >>>a >>> Oh really ...f >>>iC >>> If VMS were to become totally orphaned (i.e. belong to no-one),s >>C >> That never happens.  Even if HP goes bust VMS would still belongs3 >> to them (or the bankruptcy court).  (ie. Primos)d > L > I thought Computervision bought them.  I wonder where the sources are now?  A Primos is still being used by the people who were licensed before @ Prime's demise.  Even though there is still a pretty good supply@ of available hardware (I had one but gave it away when I learned@ that there was no chance of there ever being a Hobbyist Program)? the current holder of the IP will not issue new licenses.  They ? also do not offer any support.  That has to be acquired through2 third parties.     bill o   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2005 18:44:17 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customersn, Message-ID: <384181F5h671gU2@individual.net>  0 In article <111pg15cnbpm134@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:. >> In article <421BF45E.AC530B3F@comcast.net>,8 >> 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >> .K >>>One of my major points is: don't wait for hp to pick up the ball and rundH >>>with it - it ain't happ'nin'. Get over it. If it is to be, it's up toA >>>WE, and at an individual level, if it is to be, it's up to ME.u >>>s >> s >> lJ >> I realize that people here are getting tired of all the negativity, butF >> something even more frightening just struck me.  Does everyone hereG >> realize that should HP give up on VMS (or fail copmpletely and ceasefE >> to exist as a viable company!) the current crop of users will have G >> no more than one year to migrate to another system before their PAKs-E >> all expire?  It's really nice to see everyone pushing for VMS, butmC >> the control still lies in HP's hands and they have been known ton >> drop the ball before. >> 8 >> billg >> q >> @ > D > I'm thinking that you're talking about the hobbyist licenses, not K > commercial license PAKs.  I haven't seen a new one in some years, but in aI > the past these things did not have a lifetime.  They were forever.  If gK > this practice has changed, then I'd like to hear about it.  One reason I pH > don't think it has changed is that probably only people with software H > support would get updated PAKs, and I've never heard of any users VMS 9 > systems stop working because of license PAK expiration.r  H That's good to hear.  My experience has always been with either Hobbyist( PAK's or CSLG and both expired annually.   bill   -- fJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2005 18:45:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customerso, Message-ID: <3841aaF5h671gU3@individual.net>  3 In article <KmCP9wrVbpb2@eisner.encompasserve.org>,s> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:Y > In article <383g6tF5jllbcU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:- >>  J >> I realize that people here are getting tired of all the negativity, butF >> something even more frightening just struck me.  Does everyone hereG >> realize that should HP give up on VMS (or fail copmpletely and ceaseiE >> to exist as a viable company!) the current crop of users will havetG >> no more than one year to migrate to another system before their PAKss >> all expire? > E >    My commercially purchased PAks have no expiration date.  Only my F >    hobbyist PAKs expire.  I understand some educational PAKs expire. >   > Yeah, that's the other one.  I have Edu Program PAK's and they/ specifically state that they expire every year.g   bill   -- cJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:42:47 +0000p- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>r? Subject: [Change topic] How to communicate with TL812 - use MRU , Message-ID: <383j7tF5hr7ouU1@individual.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:. > In article <383gd6F5kjrirU1@individual.net>,2 > 	Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes: > ? >>I've implemented a similar scheme for a tape robot, where theu; >>switch had to be set to non-next-tape-loading (i.e. undero& >>control of MRU - $ robot load 'n+1). > @ > Speaking of Tape Robots.  Is there anywhere I can find out how? > to communicate with a TL812?  I have one and would love to be 8 > able to write my own backup package to make use of it.  : Hint: look for MRU (mentioned above).  Don't know off-hand if it's downloadable.   	 Roy Omondp Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Feb 2005 14:57:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)C Subject: Re: [Change topic] How to communicate with TL812 - use MRUn, Message-ID: <383jvkF5a1mntU1@individual.net>  , In article <383j7tF5hr7ouU1@individual.net>,0 	Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:/ >> In article <383gd6F5kjrirU1@individual.net>,a3 >> 	Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:o >>  @ >>>I've implemented a similar scheme for a tape robot, where the< >>>switch had to be set to non-next-tape-loading (i.e. under' >>>control of MRU - $ robot load 'n+1).  >>  A >> Speaking of Tape Robots.  Is there anywhere I can find out hown@ >> to communicate with a TL812?  I have one and would love to be9 >> able to write my own backup package to make use of it.  > < > Hint: look for MRU (mentioned above).  Don't know off-hand > if it's downloadable.o >   > Actually, I need to be able to do this from a non-VMS machine.= I am certain the VMS machine already knows how to utilize thea TL812.  :-)t   bill     -- lJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:19:07 -0500e# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h9 Subject: [OT]: Microsoft tries to patent a BASIC operator , Message-ID: <s5OdnSoM4OGlGIHfRVn-sQ@igs.net>  3 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1766949,00.aspn       --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 07:42:08 -08005 From: "greigaln@netscape.net" <greigaln@netscape.net>x= Subject: Re: [OT]: Microsoft tries to patent a BASIC operatordB Message-ID: <1109173328.547794.81390@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  ? As Gates and Paul Allen have admitted that they based the firstdB Microsoft BASIC on DEC's BASIC Plus and reverse engineered the DECD compiler (fun with DDT) to help them this attempt to patent an IsNot operator is ridiculous.   G Paul Allen still runs a public access DEC TOPS-20 system (maybe TOPS-105> as well) on the net and freely admits DEC's influence on early Microsoft code.l   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2005 07:44:55 -08005 From: "greigaln@netscape.net" <greigaln@netscape.net> = Subject: Re: [OT]: Microsoft tries to patent a BASIC operatorcC Message-ID: <1109173495.694365.163680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>m  ? As Gates and Paul Allen have admitted that they based the firstiB Microsoft BASIC on DEC's BASIC Plus and reverse engineered the DECD compiler (fun with DDT) to help them this attempt to patent an IsNot operator is ridiculous.   G Paul Allen still runs a public access DEC TOPS-20 system (maybe TOPS-10 > as well) on the net and freely admits DEC's influence on early Microsoft code.i   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.108 ************************