1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 25 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 111       Contents:' Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100? ' Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100? ' Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100? ' Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100? ' Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100? ' Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100? ' Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100? ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write".  CMA-F-EXCCOPLOS * Default RMS attributes and DECC and RAT-CR. Re: Default RMS attributes and DECC and RAT-CR: Re: Ever heard of FAL ceasing to work on a running system?: Re: Ever heard of FAL ceasing to work on a running system?: Re: Ever heard of FAL ceasing to work on a running system?: Re: Ever heard of FAL ceasing to work on a running system?: Re: Ever heard of FAL ceasing to work on a running system? FTP post processing  Re: FTP post processing  Re: FTP post processing  Re: FTP post processing < Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request? Install TCPIP 5.4  Re: Install TCPIP 5.4  Re: Install TCPIP 5.4  Re: Install TCPIP 5.4  Re: Install TCPIP 5.4  Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100  Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100  Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100  Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100  Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100  Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100   Re: NFS mounts to Solaris Server OpenVMS FTP File Transfer issue # Re: OpenVMS FTP File Transfer issue # Re: OpenVMS FTP File Transfer issue  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU. / Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ?  Sayonara Tukwilla   Re: There goes the profit center  Re: There goes the profit centerB Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customers- Re: VAXstation 3100: supported under VMS 7.3? 2 Re: WRQreflection 11: relocate settings directory?2 Re: WRQreflection 11: relocate settings directory?! Re: [OT]: Dvorak on killing Linux ! Re: [OT]: Dvorak on killing Linux   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2005 12:33:35 -0800' From: "DL Phillips" <whohe@whoever.com> 0 Subject: Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100?C Message-ID: <1109277214.994794.153790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Rob Brooks wrote: * > "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> writes:D > > This new ECO kit is for a mandatory security update. It would be niceF > > to know a little more about the vulnerability(s) it fixes, if this is8 > > possible without giving away the exploits of course. > F > What purpose would knowing more about the vulnerability serve, other > than to satisfy a curiosity? >   D Hmm. Well, I can't speak for Galen or anyone else, but reading that:  <       "HP has determined that systems running OpenVMS VAX or;        Alpha Version V7.* or V6.* have a potential security <        vulnerability.  This vulnerability could be exploited?        allowing for an unintended privileged access to data and         system resources."   E doesn't give me any clue as to how to determine whether or not any of G the systems I work with might have been compromised or whether or not I B should be worried. All you're telling us is that, unbeknown to us,G there's been an unlocked door on every systems since V6 and now we have D a way to lock it. How does one even begin a security review based onE that little tidbit? Come on, even M$ gives us more help than that. Of $ course, they've had more practice:-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:51:18 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 0 Subject: Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100?/ Message-ID: <q%rTd.588$Yd7.12@news.cpqcorp.net>   m In article <1109277214.994794.153790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "DL Phillips" <whohe@whoever.com> writes: I :...doesn't give me any clue as to how to determine whether or not any of H :the systems I work with might have been compromised or whether or not IC :should be worried. All you're telling us is that, unbeknown to us, H :there's been an unlocked door on every systems since V6 and now we haveE :a way to lock it. How does one even begin a security review based on F :that little tidbit? Come on, even M$ gives us more help than that. Of% :course, they've had more practice:-)   @   There is no right answer for the release of security-sensitive?   information, and there is then the inevitable debate over the 7   proper way the information release should be handled.   C   If you need or want to request details of the particular breach,  @   please contact the support center and request that assistance C   directly -- while I do not know that details of the exposure will E   be released via the support center, I am quite certain that details C   will not be released by HP via a newsgroup or similar broadcasts.   ?   This to prevent exposure to sites that have not installed the A   update, and to avoid assisting the more nefarious-minded folks,    of course.  C   If generic information on detecting and recovering from a breach  ?   is of interest, there are likely details available within the    security manuals.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2005 15:58:26 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 0 Subject: Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100?3 Message-ID: <oBcwD8KzlEv7@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <1109277214.994794.153790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "DL Phillips" <whohe@whoever.com> writes:  > Rob Brooks wrote: + >> "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> writes: E >> > This new ECO kit is for a mandatory security update. It would be  > niceG >> > to know a little more about the vulnerability(s) it fixes, if this  > is9 >> > possible without giving away the exploits of course.  >>G >> What purpose would knowing more about the vulnerability serve, other  >> than to satisfy a curiosity?  >> > F > Hmm. Well, I can't speak for Galen or anyone else, but reading that: > > >       "HP has determined that systems running OpenVMS VAX or= >        Alpha Version V7.* or V6.* have a potential security > >        vulnerability.  This vulnerability could be exploitedA >        allowing for an unintended privileged access to data and  >        system resources."  > G > doesn't give me any clue as to how to determine whether or not any of I > the systems I work with might have been compromised or whether or not I   E Don't worry about having been compromised, just install the patch (if  yours is a vulnerable machine).   D > should be worried. All you're telling us is that, unbeknown to us,I > there's been an unlocked door on every systems since V6 and now we have F > a way to lock it. How does one even begin a security review based onG > that little tidbit? Come on, even M$ gives us more help than that. Of & > course, they've had more practice:-)  B Microsoft also has case histories of how vulnerabilities have been? exploited.  Historically, many VMS security vulnerabilities get ( fixed without any reports of an exploit.   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Feb 2005 22:50:53 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100?, Message-ID: <38742cF5e1chnU1@individual.net>  3 In article <oBcwD8KzlEv7@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:o > In article <1109277214.994794.153790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "DL Phillips" <whohe@whoever.com> writes:  >> Rob Brooks wrote:, >>> "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> writes:F >>> > This new ECO kit is for a mandatory security update. It would be >> nice H >>> > to know a little more about the vulnerability(s) it fixes, if this >> is : >>> > possible without giving away the exploits of course. >>> H >>> What purpose would knowing more about the vulnerability serve, other  >>> than to satisfy a curiosity? >>>  >>  G >> Hmm. Well, I can't speak for Galen or anyone else, but reading that:  >>  ? >>       "HP has determined that systems running OpenVMS VAX or > >>        Alpha Version V7.* or V6.* have a potential security? >>        vulnerability.  This vulnerability could be exploited B >>        allowing for an unintended privileged access to data and >>        system resources." >>  H >> doesn't give me any clue as to how to determine whether or not any ofJ >> the systems I work with might have been compromised or whether or not I > G > Don't worry about having been compromised, just install the patch (if ! > yours is a vulnerable machine).   D That's a rather cavalier attitude.  Oh wait.  It isn't your machine, data or users.   > E >> should be worried. All you're telling us is that, unbeknown to us, J >> there's been an unlocked door on every systems since V6 and now we haveG >> a way to lock it. How does one even begin a security review based on H >> that little tidbit? Come on, even M$ gives us more help than that. Of' >> course, they've had more practice:-)  > D > Microsoft also has case histories of how vulnerabilities have beenA > exploited.  Historically, many VMS security vulnerabilities get * > fixed without any reports of an exploit.  B It isn't the successful attack you know about that is the problem." It's the one you don't know about.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:56:58 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 0 Subject: Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100?( Message-ID: <opsmp4o8k4zgicya@hyrrokkin>  F On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:51:18 GMT, Hoff Hoffman <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote:  K > In article <1109277214.994794.153790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "DL   ' > Phillips" <whohe@whoever.com> writes: K > :...doesn't give me any clue as to how to determine whether or not any of J > :the systems I work with might have been compromised or whether or not IE > :should be worried. All you're telling us is that, unbeknown to us, J > :there's been an unlocked door on every systems since V6 and now we haveG > :a way to lock it. How does one even begin a security review based on H > :that little tidbit? Come on, even M$ gives us more help than that. Of' > :course, they've had more practice:-)  > B >   There is no right answer for the release of security-sensitiveA >   information, and there is then the inevitable debate over the 9 >   proper way the information release should be handled.  > D >   If you need or want to request details of the particular breach,A >   please contact the support center and request that assistance E >   directly -- while I do not know that details of the exposure will G >   be released via the support center, I am quite certain that details E >   will not be released by HP via a newsgroup or similar broadcasts.  > A >   This to prevent exposure to sites that have not installed the C >   update, and to avoid assisting the more nefarious-minded folks,  >   of course. > D >   If generic information on detecting and recovering from a breachA >   is of interest, there are likely details available within the  >   security manuals.  > 4 >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h>   > ----------------------------- 5 >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --    > www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq 6 >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion   > --------------------------- G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  > . Found the patches for 7.3-2, 7.3-1 but not 7.3       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:49:15 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 0 Subject: Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100?0 Message-ID: <%JtTd.605$Og7.462@news.cpqcorp.net>  N In article <opsmp4o8k4zgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:/ :Found the patches for 7.3-2, 7.3-1 but not 7.3   ?   There are typically few or no patch kits created for releases 1   that are considered to be unsupported releases.   >   OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 dropped off support status some time ago.  A   For related details and support plans and schedules, please see ?   the Prior Version Support (PVS) links and related information 8   within the OpenVMS FAQ, and via various support links.  C     http://h20219.www2.hp.com/services/cache/11774-0-0-225-121.aspx   B   The OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 release is the so-called "Landing Zone"C   release for the V7.* series, and is the release I'd expect to see E   the longest support among all the V7.* releases -- this is the norm D   for PVS, of course.  (Do please see the above URL for the official0   details, schedules and statements, of course.)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:28:46 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 0 Subject: Re: Any details on VMS732_VMSMUP-V0100?( Message-ID: <opsmp558aazgicya@hyrrokkin>  F On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:49:15 GMT, Hoff Hoffman <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote:  J > In article <opsmp4o8k4zgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  	 > writes: 1 > :Found the patches for 7.3-2, 7.3-1 but not 7.3  > A >   There are typically few or no patch kits created for releases 3 >   that are considered to be unsupported releases.   @ I am aware of the support issues, but I was under the impressionE  from what I read that this might be available.  We can boot probably E a dozen different version of VMS going back to 5.5-2 Thru 7.3 for Vax C and 6. thru 8.2 on Alpha  which we need to have around for customer C support. The AXP 7.3 also can boot 7.1 so if this patch is critical B then this poses some problems for us.  Hoff, maybe yould advise meA offline how we are exposed by not having a patch for 7.3, please?  > @ >   OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 dropped off support status some time ago. > C >   For related details and support plans and schedules, please see A >   the Prior Version Support (PVS) links and related information : >   within the OpenVMS FAQ, and via various support links. > E >     http://h20219.www2.hp.com/services/cache/11774-0-0-225-121.aspx  > D >   The OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 release is the so-called "Landing Zone"E >   release for the V7.* series, and is the release I'd expect to see G >   the longest support among all the V7.* releases -- this is the norm F >   for PVS, of course.  (Do please see the above URL for the official2 >   details, schedules and statements, of course.) > 4 >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h>   > ----------------------------- 5 >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ --    > www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq 6 >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion   > --------------------------- G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  >        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:38:22 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".0 Message-ID: <111sla3n62mg879@corp.supernews.com>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: > G >> As far as I know, the file system doesn't know anything about how a  G >> file is accessed.  I'm pretty sure that the information you want is  # >> contained in the locking system.  >>J >> To scan the DLM locks, you need CMKRNL, no other option that I'm aware I >> of.  This stuff isn't documented, except in the internals books.  Ok,  G >> some of the stuff isn't documented.  There is a system service that  H >> can be used to scan the DLM database.  There are several programs on F >> the freeware and elsewhere that do such.  A search of the archives  >> will be helpful.  >  > D > The information on who has the file open is stored in the windows J > control blocks  (WCB).  The file system does know who has the file open  > for write.  G  From what I know about it, I don't do this on a daily basis, the file  H system knows that a file is open.  The access of the file is controlled ) by locks in the DLM, not the file system.   = >  The locks are not normal locks.  After the lock on a file  J > has been taken out, the lock is converted into a lock, that is owned by  > the node of the cluster.  # Ok, that's how I understand things.   1 > At least in the old days it was not documented  < > how to make such a convertion, but the flag is in starlet.   That I've never known about.   >  There is no  - > reason to scan the lock database your self.   H The application that I was addressing the last time I was into this did E require a scan of the database.  It was searching for blocking locks.    > SYS$GETLKI can get the   > information you need.   G Yes, that's how the DLM database is best scanned, rather than doing it  G yourself.  The system service is supported, thus will continue to work  H on new versions.  Doing the access yourself is a good way to get bit by " a new version of VMS, and the DLM.  , > And you can get the lock id from the file H > statistics block, which you get using the ACP QIO interface.  I dont J > remember if you need to change to kernel mode before calling SYS$GETLKI * > to get information on kernel mode locks.  G          STAT% = SYS$CMEXEC( LOC(SYS$GETLKIW) BY VALUE , LKI_NUM_ARG% )   D You use CMEXEC to invoke the GETLKI service, running in kernel mode.  ! > Otherwise there is no need for   > kernel mode code.   ( Right, no user written kernel mode code.  8 > You can write a utility that does this with a call to 5 > SYS$GETLKI as the only code running in kernel mode.    As in the example above.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:23:56 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write"., Message-ID: <cvm5pu$r6o$1@news.cybercity.dk>   Dave Froble wrote: > Karsten Nyblad wrote:  >  >> Dave Froble wrote:  >>H >>> As far as I know, the file system doesn't know anything about how a H >>> file is accessed.  I'm pretty sure that the information you want is $ >>> contained in the locking system. >>> E >>> To scan the DLM locks, you need CMKRNL, no other option that I'm  D >>> aware of.  This stuff isn't documented, except in the internals G >>> books.  Ok, some of the stuff isn't documented.  There is a system  J >>> service that can be used to scan the DLM database.  There are several J >>> programs on the freeware and elsewhere that do such.  A search of the  >>> archives will be helpful.  >> >> >>E >> The information on who has the file open is stored in the windows  F >> control blocks  (WCB).  The file system does know who has the file  >> open for write. >  > I >  From what I know about it, I don't do this on a daily basis, the file  J > system knows that a file is open.  The access of the file is controlled + > by locks in the DLM, not the file system.   E You have to understand that the VMS file system is based on the file  I system that existed before clusters.  Thus locks are used to synchronize  H access between nodes in a cluster, but synchronization of access on the D single node is done by the file system without involving locks.  It C might be that the file system checks if access can be granted when  G opening a channel for write.  However, once the channel is open, there  F is no way the file system can use the lock system for checking that a C user does not abuse a channel for more than it is opened for, e.g.  I writing to a file opened for read.  Thus the file system has to know who  I opened the file for what.  (Please remember that two proccesses may have  G the same file opened or one process may open the same file twice.)  My  G guess is that the information is in the WCBs because that is where the  7 file system stores the identity of who opened the file.   H At least it was so when I looked into the problem some 5 years ago, and E I doubt Digital/Compaq/HP have changed that, because then they would  G have to change lots of well tested code.  But it is easy to check.  In  A ANA/SYS check the locks on files.  I think it is the locks which  H resource names starting with FCP$a (the a is not a typo.)  If the locks * do not list a process then it is as I say.  G One minor error in my first posting.  The reference to the lock is not  I in the file statistics block.  It is in the FCB, which address is in the   file statistics block.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:54:34 -0500 , From: "Eric F. Milkie" <eam23@beethoven.com> Subject: CMA-F-EXCCOPLOS: Message-ID: <pan.2005.02.25.01.54.33.745387@beethoven.com>  
 Greetings.  G The OpenVMS POSIX threads manual contains the following text in section  5.12.2:   F When a status exception is reraised, whether performed explicitly in aI CATCH or CATCH_ALL block or implicitly at the end of a FINALLY block or a J cleanup handler, the Threads Library changes the primary condition code toJ either CMA$_EXCCOP or CMA$_EXCCOPLOS (depending on whether the contents ofI the exception can be reliably copied) and chains the original status code 1 to the new primary as a secondary condition code.     I Does anyone know what makes an exception "reliably copyable"?  I'm having H a problem where a FINALLY clause is resignaling a condition of EXCCOPLOSE rather than EXCCOP, and EXCCOPLOS loses the original status code. (In I other words, the Threads Library only chains the original status code for H EXCCOP.)   I tried looking in the pthread headers, but I didn't find any answers.     -Eric    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:30:14 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Default RMS attributes and DECC and RAT-CR B Message-ID: <1109279874.f10d473e18f9316898b34c8c971e3495@teranews>  H A program uses SYS$CREATE and $PUT to generate data in a file from DECC.E I use the standard C header for RMS stuff to pre-populate the FAB NAM  and RAB blocks.   A so, if I have FAB myfab = cc$rms_fab ; (same for the rab and nam)   E I was susprised to see that the defaults did not include RAT=CR and I  had to manually set the bit.   Is this normal ?  D Is there a way to populate the FAB with system defaults instead of C include file defaults ?   H does TPU, CREATE etc also manually specify RAT=CR, or do they use RMS in= such a way that it is defaulted for them ? (and if so, how ?)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:48:54 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> 7 Subject: Re: Default RMS attributes and DECC and RAT-CR , Message-ID: <cvm78o$rnc$1@news.cybercity.dk>   JF Mezei wrote: J > A program uses SYS$CREATE and $PUT to generate data in a file from DECC.G > I use the standard C header for RMS stuff to pre-populate the FAB NAM  > and RAB blocks.  > C > so, if I have FAB myfab = cc$rms_fab ; (same for the rab and nam)  > F > Is there a way to populate the FAB with system defaults instead of C > include file defaults ?   G You can open and close a file for shared read before starting creating  I the file.  The attributes will stay in the FAB, NAM and XABs and thus if  G you reuse the fab for creating the new file, the new file will get the  G attributes of the old.  Be sure to reset fields containing information  ( you do not want the new file to inherit.  H There is a library routine that reads an FDL file and creates FABs NAMs  and XABs from it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:09:01 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>C Subject: Re: Ever heard of FAL ceasing to work on a running system? + Message-ID: <421E96CD.342DEAD7@comcast.net>   , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > b > In article <421D39EE.ACD521CD@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:/ > >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  > >> > >> VMSers -- > >>  > >> Just had a weird situation. > >>T > >> DS20E, VMS 7.3-2 with all the patches I know about.   Shares a system disk withP > >> an AlphaServer 800.  DECnet Phase V using TCP/IP tower, running on Multinet/ > >> 4.4, again fully patched as far as I know.  > >>S > >> This morning on the DS20E, while logins via SET HOST kept working, attempts to R > >> use FAL-type access started failing with "login information invalid at remote > >> node".  That is,  > >> > >> $ DIR 0:: > >>B > >> (with a proxy in place so this should work) failed with that; > >>! > >> $ DIR 0"username password"::  > >> > >> failed with that message. > >> > >> From other nodes, > >>> > >> $ DIR fully-qualified-DS20e-nodename"username password":: > >> > >> failed with that message. > >>R > >> (And we were generating intrusion notifications for each one of these things,T > >> and since many of our CGIs are originally OSU CGIs and are accessed via DECnet,? > >> Apache was generating many, many intrusion notifications.)  > >> > >> At the same time, > >>, > >> $ DIR fully-qualified-AS800-node-name:: > >>N > >> worked fine, using the same sysuaf, same proxy database, same files, etc. > >>O > >> We ended up rebooting - I *hate* doing that -  and the problem cleared up. S > >> Anybody have any ideas what could have brought this on, or what we should look  > >> at if it happens again? > > = > >Some not-so-obvious issue maybe raised an intrusion alarm?  > ' > Happened from every account we tried.   B Intrusion defenses are based on the source, not only the username.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:00:55 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)C Subject: Re: Ever heard of FAL ceasing to work on a running system? 6 Message-ID: <00A3FE34.03A9CE19@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ` In article <421E96CD.342DEAD7@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:- >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  >>  c >> In article <421D39EE.ACD521CD@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: 0 >> >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: >> >>  >> >> VMSers --  >> >> ! >> >> Just had a weird situation.  >> >> U >> >> DS20E, VMS 7.3-2 with all the patches I know about.   Shares a system disk with Q >> >> an AlphaServer 800.  DECnet Phase V using TCP/IP tower, running on Multinet 0 >> >> 4.4, again fully patched as far as I know. >> >> T >> >> This morning on the DS20E, while logins via SET HOST kept working, attempts toS >> >> use FAL-type access started failing with "login information invalid at remote  >> >> node".  That is, >> >>  >> >> $ DIR 0::  >> >> C >> >> (with a proxy in place so this should work) failed with that;  >> >> " >> >> $ DIR 0"username password":: >> >>  >> >> failed with that message.  >> >>  >> >> From other nodes,  >> >> ? >> >> $ DIR fully-qualified-DS20e-nodename"username password"::  >> >>  >> >> failed with that message.  >> >> S >> >> (And we were generating intrusion notifications for each one of these things, U >> >> and since many of our CGIs are originally OSU CGIs and are accessed via DECnet, @ >> >> Apache was generating many, many intrusion notifications.) >> >>  >> >> At the same time,  >> >> - >> >> $ DIR fully-qualified-AS800-node-name::  >> >> O >> >> worked fine, using the same sysuaf, same proxy database, same files, etc.  >> >> P >> >> We ended up rebooting - I *hate* doing that -  and the problem cleared up.T >> >> Anybody have any ideas what could have brought this on, or what we should look >> >> at if it happens again?  >> >> >> >Some not-so-obvious issue maybe raised an intrusion alarm? >>  ( >> Happened from every account we tried. > C >Intrusion defenses are based on the source, not only the username.   L Sorry, wasn't clear.  I tried from different nodes as well as from different usernames.    K The audit log incidentally shows that the error was "NO SUCH USER" on users  that in fact exist.    -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:45:48 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> C Subject: Re: Ever heard of FAL ceasing to work on a running system? B Message-ID: <1109305982.ec8e31b78896ddc2813d2c7f68d70c77@teranews>  , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  M > The audit log incidentally shows that the error was "NO SUCH USER" on users  > that in fact exist.   A Is it possible someone did an OPEN/READ/WRITE/NOSHARE of SYSUAF ?  (and/or the proxy database) ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 04:47:49 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)C Subject: Re: Ever heard of FAL ceasing to work on a running system? 6 Message-ID: <00A3FE3A.90C0CB8D@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  r In article <1109305982.ec8e31b78896ddc2813d2c7f68d70c77@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:- >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  > N >> The audit log incidentally shows that the error was "NO SUCH USER" on users >> that in fact exist. > B >Is it possible someone did an OPEN/READ/WRITE/NOSHARE of SYSUAF ?  O Nope.  Login via SET HOST worked just fine on that machine while this was going O on.  LOGINOUT.EXE - no problem.  FAL.EXE (or NET$ACP, more precisely), problem.    >(and/or the proxy database) ?  L Nope.  At the same time this was going on, the other node that uses the same3 SYSUAF and proxy database didn't have this problem.    -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 01:54:32 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> C Subject: Re: Ever heard of FAL ceasing to work on a running system? B Message-ID: <1109313699.6cf28189a4024182a740117fb024c406@teranews>  , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:   N > Nope.  At the same time this was going on, the other node that uses the same5 > SYSUAF and proxy database didn't have this problem.   ? And I think you've ruled out some logical name definition to an  alternate SYSUAF or NET$PROXY ?   H Is it possible you had some logical name that messed up the FAL object ?H  (or someone having messages with the NCP volatile database, which would+ explain why a reboot solved the situation).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:03:56 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: FTP post processingB Message-ID: <1109285492.de44a29dca152f0b530e3bcd8cc12311@teranews>  D This comes up so often, perhaps it is time to tackle this and make a" formal request to VMS management ?  H The ability to trigger some sort of post processing after an FTP session" seems to be quite often requested.  / What would be the best way to accomplish this ?    Some thoughts:  9 I just tried editing FTP_SERVER.COM and it seems to work.   D Add some DCL commands after the RUN TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.EXE and they getC executed when the FTP seesion terminates. I have not tested if this ' works with every type of disconnection.   G So perhaps they could add some standard and documented code which would G check for a logical name and then execute the command procedure pointed  to by the logical ?   A How could security be ensured ? You don't want that logical to be F systemwide, you want it defined on a user basis, so expecting it to beG defined/exec wouldn't work. Could it check for the command procedure be + located in a specific protected directory ?   B (you need to prevent someone from downloading a new login.com thatD defines that logical to point to a nefarious command procedure , andD then after the next FTP session ends, that command procedue would beG executed even though the user may not have telnet access to the system.   G Or would such a feature require some rights be granted to a user beforeV any procedure can be called?  E I know this doesn't provide the "advise me as soon as a file has beenaA transfered", but it would provide a pretty good notification of a" session termination.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:32:38 -0800n# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>a  Subject: Re: FTP post processing( Message-ID: <opsmp6cotdzgicya@hyrrokkin>  . On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:03:56 -0500, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:s  F > This comes up so often, perhaps it is time to tackle this and make a$ > formal request to VMS management ? > J > The ability to trigger some sort of post processing after an FTP session$ > seems to be quite often requested. >T1 > What would be the best way to accomplish this ?tG I use hgftp so this might be different, I could imagine tailing the log  file and parseing its output.t >  > Some thoughts: >l; > I just tried editing FTP_SERVER.COM and it seems to work.A >aF > Add some DCL commands after the RUN TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.EXE and they getE > executed when the FTP seesion terminates. I have not tested if this ) > works with every type of disconnection.T >sI > So perhaps they could add some standard and documented code which wouldsI > check for a logical name and then execute the command procedure pointedU > to by the logical ?  > C > How could security be ensured ? You don't want that logical to benH > systemwide, you want it defined on a user basis, so expecting it to beI > defined/exec wouldn't work. Could it check for the command procedure be - > located in a specific protected directory ?e >oD > (you need to prevent someone from downloading a new login.com thatF > defines that logical to point to a nefarious command procedure , andF > then after the next FTP session ends, that command procedue would beI > executed even though the user may not have telnet access to the system.i >nI > Or would such a feature require some rights be granted to a user before- > any procedure can be called? >5G > I know this doesn't provide the "advise me as soon as a file has beensC > transfered", but it would provide a pretty good notification of a0 > session termination.       -- oC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/E   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:30:07 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: FTP post processing+ Message-ID: <421E9BBF.B4DB32AC@comcast.net>p   JF Mezei wrote:g > F > This comes up so often, perhaps it is time to tackle this and make a$ > formal request to VMS management ? > J > The ability to trigger some sort of post processing after an FTP session$ > seems to be quite often requested. > 1 > What would be the best way to accomplish this ?l >  > Some thoughts: > ; > I just tried editing FTP_SERVER.COM and it seems to work.r > F > Add some DCL commands after the RUN TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.EXE and they getE > executed when the FTP seesion terminates. I have not tested if thiso) > works with every type of disconnection.h > I > So perhaps they could add some standard and documented code which would,I > check for a logical name and then execute the command procedure pointed  > to by the logical ?o > C > How could security be ensured ? You don't want that logical to be,H > systemwide, you want it defined on a user basis, so expecting it to be > defined/exec wouldn't work.-   Why not?  D How 'bout even making it a kernel-mode LNM? That's as secure as LNMs get, AFAIK.R  H You could also base it on the UIC group (DEFINE/GROUP/EXEC), or check to? see if a process holds an identifier, ... Lots of possibilites.g  - > Could it check for the command procedure bem- > located in a specific protected directory ?h   Another possibility...  D > (you need to prevent someone from downloading a new login.com thatF > defines that logical to point to a nefarious command procedure , andF > then after the next FTP session ends, that command procedue would beI > executed even though the user may not have telnet access to the system.w  @ You could try using protected-mode LNMs DEFINEd with /NOALIAS...  I > Or would such a feature require some rights be granted to a user before  > any procedure can be called?  / That's up to you if you design the mechanism...i  G > I know this doesn't provide the "advise me as soon as a file has beenhC > transfered", but it would provide a pretty good notification of ar > session termination.  F Sounds interesting enough to me to research in some depth, if you have	 the need.o   FWIW...i   -- h David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:e" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/s   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:09:57 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: FTP post processingB Message-ID: <1109303834.54d70e7868a33fff49c271b9380855f3@teranews>   David J Dachtera wrote: H > Sounds interesting enough to me to research in some depth, if you have > the need.-  F I can patch my command procedure if I have to. But it would be nice ifG this were done properly and integrated into the standard TCPIP package.5  C Another possibility would be for the actual TCPIP server to spawn aRP process that uses a different TCPIP$FTP_CHILD.COM file depending on the username   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:07:10 -0600.2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>E Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request?T+ Message-ID: <421E965D.F8E1C305@comcast.net>p   Bob Koehler wrote: > t > In article <1109201710.f768b09e46e168f6fb6433c34a6a9c8e@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:G > > Different slant: would it be possible for your batch job to spawn avG > > subprocess which VMS would view as "interactive" at which point them) > > /NOASSIST might be handled properly ?e > H >    Getting the subprocess to be "interactive" is a non-trivial effort.  & Maybe play some games with FT devices?  G We've needed for a long time to have a version of (ALPHA_)LOGGER.C thatl2 would work from a file as well as from a terminal.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/o   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:02:46 -0800d# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Install TCPIP 5.4( Message-ID: <opsmp7qwd6zgicya@hyrrokkin>  4 I would like to use SSH on VAX 7.3 AXP 7.3 and 7.3-1  A Is there any problem installing TCPIP5.4  from 7.3-2 distribution  on the two inferior versions?r  K The latest TCPIP for VAX is 5.1.  Is there SSH server and client available?t   Tomr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:31:56 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>T Subject: Re: Install TCPIP 5.4B Message-ID: <1109294363.8c68e76efb03325283c82068fbe6469e@teranews>   Tom Linden wrote:1M > The latest TCPIP for VAX is 5.1.  Is there SSH server and client available?a  4 Latest for VAX is TCPIP 5.3 if I remember correctly.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:21:01 -0800o# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>k Subject: Re: Install TCPIP 5.4( Message-ID: <opsmqbdb0rzgicya@hyrrokkin>  . On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:31:56 -0500, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:r   > Tom Linden wrote:tE >> The latest TCPIP for VAX is 5.1.  Is there SSH server and client  e
 >> available?s > 6 > Latest for VAX is TCPIP 5.3 if I remember correctly.  @ 5.1 came in my 7.3 kit.  Do you know if SSH2 is client/server is available for 5.3?     --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:43:40 -0500*- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>u Subject: Re: Install TCPIP 5.4B Message-ID: <1109295065.7b213c20d6d7595e68a9e365a9b40f96@teranews>   Tom Linden wrote: B > 5.1 came in my 7.3 kit.  Do you know if SSH2 is client/server is > available for 5.3?  + Not on VAX,. I think this is a 5.4 feature.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:54:46 -0700i% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>a Subject: Re: Install TCPIP 5.4A Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050224205407.025d29b8@raptor.psccos.com>n  & At 06:43 PM 2/24/2005, JF Mezei wrote: >Tom Linden wrote:D > > 5.1 came in my 7.3 kit.  Do you know if SSH2 is client/server is > > available for 5.3? >m, >Not on VAX,. I think this is a 5.4 feature.  J It's available from Process Software for VAX, Alpha, Itanium (beta), clear& back to 6.x of AXP and 5.5-2 of VAX...     ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2005 11:38:06 -0800( From: "Shawn" <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net>" Subject: Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100C Message-ID: <1109273886.684893.101790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   F Does anyone know when the Alpha 2100 5/250 was actually first made andE sold to the Corporate World.  I know they are old, but management has / requested that I put a year on how old ours is?:   Thanks,t Shawn1   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2005 12:13:13 -0800 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com& Subject: Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100A Message-ID: <1109275993.775661.6220@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   C The January 1995 SOC lists AlphaServer 2100 4/200 and 4/275 systemsiD only.  The May 1996 catalog lists the AlphaServer 2100 4/275, 5/250,B and 5/300 systems.  I don't have the intervening catalogs, but theD 5/250 probably came out  somewhat before then since the faster 5/300D model is listed.  Sorry I can't get it any closer with info on hand.   Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:49:44 -0500r6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet>& Subject: Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 21000 Message-ID: <NPydnfJThv51oIPfRVn-rA@comcast.com>   Shawn wrote:H > Does anyone know when the Alpha 2100 5/250 was actually first made andG > sold to the Corporate World.  I know they are old, but management hast1 > requested that I put a year on how old ours is?u > 	 > Thanks,e > Shawn  >   H The serial number of your machine will contain the year of manufacture. G   I used to have a pointer to information on how to decipher the year,  H location, and week of manufacture from the serial number, but I've lost E the pointer.  Perhaps the information is in the OpenVMS FAQ (if not, g should it be included?)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:51:53 +0100t, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>& Subject: Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100, Message-ID: <386t7lF5ibn0oU1@individual.net>  5 "Shawn" <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net> schreef in berichtF= news:1109273886.684893.101790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...-H > Does anyone know when the Alpha 2100 5/250 was actually first made andG > sold to the Corporate World.  I know they are old, but management has 1 > requested that I put a year on how old ours is?  >s	 > Thanks,  > Shawnn >   K IIRC the serialnumber will tell you something about the production facilityaF and the week it was built. Example: a Digital Server 5305 has serial#:
 AY91901881K The first two letters identify the plant, the first digit is the last digitpJ of the year it was buil and digits two and three identify the week in that year.>; The system was built in Ayre (?) Scotland in 1999, week 19. G So you have to guess the decade. For a 2100 that would be 199x I guess,a right?   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:30:27 GMTa# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)e& Subject: Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 21000 Message-ID: <THrTd.584$Yd7.440@news.cpqcorp.net>  n In article <1109273886.684893.101790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Shawn" <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net> writes:G :Does anyone know when the Alpha 2100 5/250 was actually first made andr :sold to the Corporate World.  Z  C   The first half of 1995, IIRC.  Operating system support was firste   available circa June 1995.  B   Look for a sticker on the interior of the front door, too -- theD   AlphaServer 2100 series systems I've seen tend to have one, and it!   has some system-specific dates.-  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq-N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com-   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2005 20:14:35 -0800( From: "Shawn" <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net>& Subject: Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100B Message-ID: <1109304875.801746.39550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  C Thanks to everyone for their responses.  I will look at this in the4 morning.   Shawnn   Shawn wrote:D > Does anyone know when the Alpha 2100 5/250 was actually first made andoG > sold to the Corporate World.  I know they are old, but management hasa1 > requested that I put a year on how old ours is?e > 	 > Thanks,a > Shawnh   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2005 13:36:21 -0800# From: "Jim Main" <main@ulticom.com>o) Subject: Re: NFS mounts to Solaris ServerVB Message-ID: <1109280981.790894.19430@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:E > In article <1108579875.304537.292730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,   "Jim" <main@ulticom.com> writes: > > Jim and Bob, > > A > > Thanks for your input. I have the nfs mount permanence set. .i > >pF > > If I may ask one more question, is it possible to compile files on unix > > from openvms? 5 > > The case sensitivity issue is getting in the way.,F > > The more I look and think about it, I think we have to go to upper case
 > > names. >tF >    If I read this right, you have something like able.c on your UNIXG >    system readable from VMS and you want to use the VMS C compiler tol >    compile it? > F >    This should work.  If not, please share the errors you're seeing. >eG >    What you will have problems with is if your application depends onaB >    something like both able.c and Able.c, or using .c vs. .C for C/C++ D >    distinction.  The latter can be handled by specifically telling which G >    compiler to compile which file.  VMS compilers don't care what the-C >    name or extension of the input file is, the C compiler assumes  it's> >    reading C, the C++ compiler assumes it's reading C++, ... >lG >    And you will have problems using default rules in MMS.  Try gmake.m    G I think I have found a solution to my problem. I created a foo.tlb textoF file with all the necessary private includes needed for building. ThisG foo.tlb does not have any of the stdio and family of files. Thats where G I got the idea after  reading a lot over the past week.  The only other E problem is how to set the default seach to find my foo.tlb during theeG build so I do not have to include it with each file compiled (we have at> lot of files).  I keep plugging away, thanks for your help and suggestions.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2005 19:05:47 -0800 From: yanz@optonline.net (Yan)( Subject: OpenVMS FTP File Transfer issue= Message-ID: <d8327209.0502241905.68baae12@posting.google.com>o  F Hi. I have a DEC (Digital) Alpha Server 2100 4/233, OpenVMS 6.2 AXP. ID am having issues with the backup system. I am trying to copy all theA files from the DEC to the PC via FTP. One of the issues that i amcF having with that is when i transfer the files are getting messed up. I> tried to use Cuteftp and WS_FTP and with both i am having thisD problem. I tried to change the ftp server type to VMS and that didntC really help. Whenever i transfer a file the file size is changed onhD the pc side with both ASCII and Binary transfer mode. As i found outF that these filesizes are not real but a block size so i can understandE the difference in size but i have a file that it shows 4GB but when itF copy it its only 200k and contains non readable characters when i viewE it instead of all text. Is there any specific programs that i can use D to transfer the files from the DEC. Would i be able to copy back the1 files and restore OpenVMS if anything goes wrong?b$ I would greatly appreciate any help!   Thanks in advance!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:33:18 -0600n2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>, Subject: Re: OpenVMS FTP File Transfer issue+ Message-ID: <421E9C7E.5B854AFF@comcast.net>   
 Yan wrote: > H > Hi. I have a DEC (Digital) Alpha Server 2100 4/233, OpenVMS 6.2 AXP. IF > am having issues with the backup system. I am trying to copy all theC > files from the DEC to the PC via FTP. One of the issues that i amoH > having with that is when i transfer the files are getting messed up. I@ > tried to use Cuteftp and WS_FTP and with both i am having thisF > problem. I tried to change the ftp server type to VMS and that didntE > really help. Whenever i transfer a file the file size is changed on=F > the pc side with both ASCII and Binary transfer mode. As i found outH > that these filesizes are not real but a block size so i can understandG > the difference in size but i have a file that it shows 4GB but when ieH > copy it its only 200k and contains non readable characters when i viewG > it instead of all text. Is there any specific programs that i can uselF > to transfer the files from the DEC. Would i be able to copy back the3 > files and restore OpenVMS if anything goes wrong?s& > I would greatly appreciate any help!  , You need to read up on something called RMS.  E Your approach simply won't work - the PC does not support RMS, so the  files get trashed.   See the links at: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   -- n David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:n" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 05:22:45 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam>t, Subject: Re: OpenVMS FTP File Transfer issue, Message-ID: <cvm988$s7m$1@news.cybercity.dk>  
 Yan wrote:H > Hi. I have a DEC (Digital) Alpha Server 2100 4/233, OpenVMS 6.2 AXP. IF > am having issues with the backup system. I am trying to copy all theC > files from the DEC to the PC via FTP. One of the issues that i am H > having with that is when i transfer the files are getting messed up. I@ > tried to use Cuteftp and WS_FTP and with both i am having thisF > problem. I tried to change the ftp server type to VMS and that didntE > really help. Whenever i transfer a file the file size is changed ontF > the pc side with both ASCII and Binary transfer mode. As i found outH > that these filesizes are not real but a block size so i can understandG > the difference in size but i have a file that it shows 4GB but when ieH > copy it its only 200k and contains non readable characters when i viewG > it instead of all text. Is there any specific programs that i can usesF > to transfer the files from the DEC. Would i be able to copy back the3 > files and restore OpenVMS if anything goes wrong? & > I would greatly appreciate any help! >  > Thanks in advance!  G First:  CuteFTP is a thorian horse that inserts spyware on your PC.  I e4 would advise you not to use CuteFTP for that reason.  F Have you tried Windows own ftp program, i.e., FTP from a command line 5 prompt?  Have you tried FTPing from your web browser?h  H Personally, I would ZIP the files on the VMS machine before transfering F the files to the PC.  There are versions of ZIP designed for VMS that & know how to deal with file attributes.  H Do not expect to be capable of restoring VMS from the transfered files. E   You may be capable of transfering the files back to the VMS system  C once you have reinstalled VMS from CDs, but I would not use such a  I method for backup without having tried transfering the files back to the  3 VMS machine and verified that files are unmodified.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:14:06 -05000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>o( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.B Message-ID: <1109271712.081a9b961ea810b5369e556cac0e247e@teranews>   Big John wrote:dD > > Error reading DNFS2:[CCM_WA.$OPS.OPS.CUST.LIB3]SMSC_CONFIG.CFG;10 > > 2253 byte record too large for user's buffer    H You should write a small command procedure that reads the file reacrd byH record, records each record's lengths and reports any record longer than< say 1024 bytes (or whatever would not be considered normal).  G You could then use dump/record to see how dump handles the remote file.s  H And if you copy the file to a local disk, is TPU able to edit it fine ?   H One possible thing to consider, and I am not sure if it applies, is thatF NFS may be eating up your BYTLIM quota, so TPU would have less to work@ with and hence barf when it gets to a longish record which would oitherwise have been readable.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:33:42 GMTt# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)b( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.0 Message-ID: <q_pTd.563$W07.187@news.cpqcorp.net>  y In article <1109262406.394279.177230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> writes:C :$ UCX SHOW VER1 :2A :  Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.2 - ECO 4S9 :  on a AlphaServer 4100 5/466 4MB running OpenVMS V7.1-2   B   It is time for an upgrade to both TCP/IP Services and to OpenVMS@   Alpha here; both of these products are quite dated, and are noB   longer considered supported within this configuration.  (ie: No ?   new ECO kits are being generated for these versions, and whatiA   kits are presently still available are comparatively old ones.)t   	--a  F   Do realize that sequential files can and do differ across platforms,F   and it is entirely expected that files that are not recognized mightE   not work -- in your case, look around for the ADF-level support forrH   NFS file structure remapping for this file type within the NFS client.  C   This in the TCP/IP Services Management manual NFS Client Chapter.D  A   Some sequential file formats are comparatively similar in theirs?   on-disk organizations, and some of the sequential formats are C   entirely incompatible at the disk level across operating systems.   B   The ADF files attempt to convert the file structures on-the-fly.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqoN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:28:10 GMTo# From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> ( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.< Message-ID: <uNqTd.106574$qB6.33807@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>   Big John wrote:    Way out of support.   Upgrade.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:06:08 -0500h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>E( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.B Message-ID: <1109278429.474de7174ffc71ab678817f0bd8a8973@teranews>   Beach Runner wrote:o  > Way out of support.   Upgrade.    3 When was the last time TPU was updated ???? 1995 ? n  G While this version may be old, the problem remains that this user has a H problem. Saying "you have an old version" is not an answer to his query.F The problem may still be present, or iot may be gone. The user did notE provide sufficient information on the format of the source file to ber! able to say for sure, did he ????   G While this person has an old version, one should still try to find somelC workaround or understand the problem or at least explain what exactcH limitation NFS has with regards to certain file formats so that the user* may be able to prevent/avoid this problem.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2005 17:11:48 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.3 Message-ID: <$osQY7VJtKcf@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  h In article <cvl6rk$jt5$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes: > Hi,n > K > I didn't see the original problem, but along the lines of "*MAJOR* bug in # > TPU" how's this for a feature : -v > N > 1) You edit some code with /READ 'cos the source in your reference directory6 > and you haven't checked it out for modification yet. > J > 2) You suddenly suffer from an epiphany as hundreds of new lines of code > rush down to your fingers> > G > 3) You reach for the mouse and change the buffer from unmodifiable to N > go-crazy (You're an adult! You'll sort out the niceties later. So what if it > contains nuts?)  > - > 4) Hours fly by in your code induced frenzyi > 4 > 5) You EXIT out of TPU ready to debug your changes > M > 6) Just like magic your file is exactly how it started and all your changest > have gone up in smoke :-(  > E > Not a warning message! Not a "Would you like a chance to save theseb > changes?" Nothin'! >   > 	I've had that fun experience.  It isn't just the sequence you? 	describe... but it may also have to do with the customized tpuI? 	modules I picked up over the years.  I've done the same, go to 3 	write the file via  a control-z and exit no write!-  + 	So... I now *always* get to Command: wr fi:   	Haven't lost a buffer since.A   				RobE   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:02:03 -0800c, From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.+ Message-ID: <cvlteb$euk$1@news01.intel.com>.   Richard Maher wrote: > Hi,n > K > I didn't see the original problem, but along the lines of "*MAJOR* bug in # > TPU" how's this for a feature : -a > N > 1) You edit some code with /READ 'cos the source in your reference directory6 > and you haven't checked it out for modification yet. > J > 2) You suddenly suffer from an epiphany as hundreds of new lines of code > rush down to your fingers  > G > 3) You reach for the mouse and change the buffer from unmodifiable to N > go-crazy (You're an adult! You'll sort out the niceties later. So what if it > contains nuts?)  > - > 4) Hours fly by in your code induced frenzyT > 4 > 5) You EXIT out of TPU ready to debug your changes > M > 6) Just like magic your file is exactly how it started and all your changes> > have gone up in smoke :-(  > E > Not a warning message! Not a "Would you like a chance to save these  > changes?" Nothin'!    C      I can't reproduce this.  OTOH, at least in current versions ofrA EVE, the status line for the buffer when you've done an EDIT/READe< has two fields: Read-only and Unmodifiable.  Clicking on theB latter allows you to modify the file, *BUT IT IS STILL READ-ONLY*.: Clicking on Read-only changes the buffer to Write (and theA Unmodifiable tag disappears).  When you EXIT out of a buffer withc@ Write set, the file gets written.  So what did you do in step 3?   	-Kene --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield>! D1C Automation VMS System Supportu" who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:21:05 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.+ Message-ID: <421E99A1.9ED7F273@comcast.net>-   Big John wrote:  > * > I have stumbled upon a major bug in TPU. > A > (I'll attach all the technical stuff, versions etc. at the end,uB > so anyone who gets bored with this can stop whenever they want).$ > When I edit a certain file, I get: > D > > Error reading DNFS2:[CCM_WA.$OPS.OPS.CUST.LIB3]SMSC_CONFIG.CFG;10 > > 2253 byte record too large for user's buffer > C > The editor then continues, but shows only the first 500 odd lines4C > of the file. I first assumed it must be something I have done, as:C > I have a heavily customised TPU section. However editing with the < > original - /SECTION=EVE$SECTION produces the same results. > ? > I found this very odd, as I knew for a fact that I had editedlA > files with much longer records than that. So I have ascertainedt* > the conditions under which this happens. > @ > This only happens on files that are read under NFS from a Unix> > machine with an NFS file server. For these files there is an= > unknown, and undefined maximum size of records that TPU canR
 > process.  C I think other respondents have covered it, but I wanted to make twoy comments here:  F First, I'd consider the NFS store to be archival only. Before editing,F make a local copy, and don't replace the source until you're satisfied with the changes.   D Second, lines longer than the width of the screen are unsuitable forD common practice use with a text editor. If the application cannot beD "fixed" to use a more reasonable configuration file format, considerF developing a configuration editor (and make it as "portable", whatever( that means to you, as your application).  1 By the way: TPU can cause inadvertent corruption:y   o Edit any file.H o Move the cursor to the end of any line where the next line is shorter.* o Cursor down once, and hit the space bar.  D You just corrupted your file. The cursor line is now one byte longerC than the line above it. TPU/EVE has space-padded the line up to theMF cursor position before you added a space, and then added the space you just typed.o   Fun stuff, huh?   H TPU/EVE has its uses, don't get me wrong. So has EDT, vi, eMACS and evenD EDLIN (if you still have any MS-DOS or W/9X system running). Just be3 aware of what the program can do you and your text.e   -- U David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:t" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/i   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:53:02 -0500 2 From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu>8 Subject: Re: read monitor (>>>) variables from OpenVMS ?A Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0502241832180.26395@frank.harvard.edu>p  . On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, Christoph Gartmann wrote:  w > In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0502230851590.7084@frank.harvard.edu>, Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu> writes:e5 >> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr wrote:h >> >>> hi,o >>>oK >>> is there a way to read the monitor variables (thoses at the >>> prompt,o* >>> before boot) from an OpenVMS session ? >>>  >>F >> The program appended below contains three files: once C source, oneE >> Macro-64 (Alpha assembly) source, one MMS.  It does what you want.lM >> (Strictly speaking, the assembly code didn't need to be assembly; it couldaM >> have been done in C but it would have been a lot less elegant.)  After youl4 >> build, you should define it as a foreign command: >>3 >> $ GETENV :== $DISK$USER:[COLDWELL.SRM]GETENV.EXE  >>? >> (modify to match your directory hierarchy), then you can rune >> >> $ getenv bootdef_deve >> dka0.0.0.6.1r >>A >> or whatever variable suits your fancy.  Alpha-only, of course.  > Q > Now, would it be a big deal to modify it in a way that one could use wildcards?d > $ getenv kbd*n  F It would be a big deal, yes.  The program I wrote is just a very thin J wrapper around the GET_ENV console callback routine.  All my program does J is switch to kernel mode and hand that parameter from the command line to E the console callback dispatcher along with the function code for the hE GET_ENV routine.  Since the GET_ENV console callback routine doesn't o+ support wildcards, neither does my program.-  K In order to support wildcards you would have to have some means of finding oD out what environment variables are defined.  The Alpha architecture H doesn't specify a mechanism for doing so, although it does specify some D variables that must be defined (AUTO_ACTION, BOOT_DEV, BOOTDEF_DEV, E BOOTED_DEV, etc).  These are a small subset of the variables usually e8 defined in any given implementation of the architecture.  I FWIW, every console feature used by the program is required by the Alpha tJ architecture, so it should work on any Alpha implementation that includes J a relatively modern SRM console.  One thing seems to have changed at some J point.  The Alpha Architecture Reference Manual specifies that you should I pass the environment variable id (an integer specified in the manual) to nJ the callback routine, whereas I pass a pointer to a string containing the K name of the variable.  I don't know when that changed; I picked it up from lK a program Fred Kleinsorge posted to this newsgroup some time ago (with the a% old ID-number version commented out).r   Chip   -- o Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell System Administrator Harvard Physics Department 617-495-3388   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 22:31:33 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>r Subject: Sayonara TukwillaB Message-ID: <1109301530.d922c8ee2c909de2b2016aa249361215@teranews>  < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/24/intel_nicks_tukwila/  ! The title in the URL says it all.c  7 Meanwhile, Fujitsu is expected to release a 64 CPU IA64n6 refrigirator/mainframe that will run Linux or Windows.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 00:50:55 +0100 , From: "Dr. Dweeb" <5msg0h202@sneakemail.com>) Subject: Re: There goes the profit center?, Message-ID: <cvlp92$inr$1@news.cybercity.dk>   Synchronicity !!  L This afternoon I got a call from a friend - he needed help printing from his
 Epson C64.   Here are the facts.-  H 1: The 3 color cartridges are registered as empty, despite the fact thatL aside from the occasional test page, they have never been used.  They are in fact almost full.<L 2: A new black cartridge has been installed - however one can apparently not= print anything at all if just one of the cartidges are empty.mG 3: Upon examination, the replaced black cartridge was not empty either.qF 4: According to the status report, the installed colour cartridges are0 standard size (ie. not half full to start with).  K I installed SSC Service utility - no joy on this model. It seems Epson goes K to even greater lengths with each new generation to stop utilities like SSC 
 from working.dL I even shorted pin one on the chips as suggested.  It was still not possible4 to get the printer to accept the cartridges as full.: No amount of cajoling would convince the printer to print.  K My friend will now have to pony up for 3 colour cartridges, plus the wasted C un-empty black cartridge, because EPSON is a disrepuatable company.   L The sad news is that I did not know this a month or two ago when I purchasedE my Photo RX600 !!  I have installed SSC tonight and set it to use thexL automatic frezze option, which I hope will save me from the fate that befellK my friend.  Either way, I firmly believe he has every right to be seriouslyoE pissed off and the quicker the courts crush this behaviour by printer ( companies, the better for all concerned.  	 Dr. Dweebt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:29:44 -0500i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t) Subject: Re: There goes the profit center B Message-ID: <1109294230.427ea219ed1273409f6c6954f3d9f97c@teranews>   "Dr. Dweeb" wrote:N > This afternoon I got a call from a friend - he needed help printing from his > Epson C64.  D If you remove a cartridge from an Epson printer, the cartridge is no longer usable even if full.-  B If you go to refiller shops, they can seel you a little gizmo thatG resets the cartridge and allows it to be put back into the printer (and? you can inject new ink in it). n  F I bought this gizmo and 6 ink bottles (5 colours, 1 black) and haven'tH bought Epson cartridges since. So I have a couple of cartridges to cycleD through. However, when you refill one, you need to clean each of the: holes and then get the printer to clean heads a few times.  E Had a recalcitrant print head at one point ,and just put some alchooloE where the cartcidge "docks", put a cartridge and had it go trhough it/) cleaning cycle and that seemed to fix it.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:04:58 -0600o2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>K Subject: Re: Trade Press Needs to Talk with HP Disaster Tolerence Customers-+ Message-ID: <421E95D9.34E7690B@comcast.net>    Tom Linden wrote:e > 6 > On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:54:59 -0600, David J Dachtera$ > <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote: >  > > Tom Linden wrote:> > >> [snip]a" > >> Those examples aren't germane > >gI > > How so? In every case, someone took some else's product and made it a ! > > dominant force in the market.B< > It was a commercial enterprise that took the  initiative.   F Uh, huh ... and did the stork deliver each "commercial enterprise", or just where DID they come from?   > This is a group - > of customers/supporters/enthusiats/amateurs   3 Hhmmm... Sounds to me like a good place to start...   3 > > How does that differ with what we're exploring?a > >sK > > ...or are you opertaing under the assumption that all this is about hasgC > > only to do with advertising, promoting, etc. ("marketing") VMS?   > No, it is much more than that.  % Indeed - it *IS* much more than that.8  G Shaking in your shoes yet? (If not, you've obviously not been following  along.)u  D The only way to "get bigger" is to step outside your "comfort zone".   -- d David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:t" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/o   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:18:36 GMTV# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)w6 Subject: Re: VAXstation 3100: supported under VMS 7.3?. Message-ID: <gMpTd.560$W07.4@news.cpqcorp.net>  z In article <CIOSd.67111$Th1.40021@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, drwho8__NOTME__@att.net (The Eighth Doctor) writes:P :However, since my hobbyist copies of VMS were delivered on CD, and this fellow V :didn't bring his with him. Do you folks have any suggestions for running the install  :mechanism with out one?  I   I'd get a CD-ROM.  One of the SCSI-based Plextor PlexWriter drives willnG   probably work (for reading and for CD-R/RW work), and SCSI RRD-serieshD   drives are generally available on the used market.  If going for aE   SCSI CD-ROM, I'd choose an RRD43 or later CD-ROM drive, with higher5*   4x numbers being somewhat faster drives.  G   If you plan on doing most anything with this box, having a CD-R/RW or64   at least a CD-ROM will make data transfers easier.  E   If you want to operate without a CD-ROM, you will need a spare disk D   and a way to perform a BACKUP (locally, or by swapping a disk ontoF   a system with access to a CD-ROM), or you will need someone that canF   loan you a CD-ROM drive, or you will need to acquire or transfer the5   installation onto whatever bootable media you have.T  8   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ for information on CD-R/RW.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqCN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comu   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2005 11:52:24 -0800 From: jqq@myrealbox.com,; Subject: Re: WRQreflection 11: relocate settings directory?@B Message-ID: <1109274744.760113.64750@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  C I was hoping for something in the program, didn't even think of the 	 registry.    That did it, though.    
 Thanks.     js   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:22:54 -0600e2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>; Subject: Re: WRQreflection 11: relocate settings directory?c+ Message-ID: <421E9A0E.5C0AD19B@comcast.net>-   jqq@myrealbox.com wrote: > E > I was hoping for something in the program, didn't even think of theT > registry.t >  > That did it, though. >  > Thanks.     jS  E I've never heard of Reflection 11, though I've used Reflection/2 (now H known as Reflection for UNIX and Digital) and Reflection/4 (now known as Reflection for ReGIS Graphics).t   -- f David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:-" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:51:03 -0500-' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>-* Subject: Re: [OT]: Dvorak on killing Linux0 Message-ID: <111sihbb309f326@corp.supernews.com>    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:Y > In article <384shqF5jbofeU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:0 > . >>In article <bZmdnfgnNfVhZoHfRVn-jQ@igs.net>,( >>	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >>6 >>>http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1768170,00.asp) >>>(the article has 2 pages at this link)  >>>w >>>How to Kill Linux >>>ARTICLE DATE:  02.22.05 >>>- >>>By  John C. Dvorak4 >>G >>Dvorak once again shows how little he really knows about the computera >>industry!! >  > G > But he gets published and stupid people bite at every word he speaks.  >    Those who can, do.   Those who can't, write.m  E Unfortunately, there are those who can't do either, and just blindly   follow the writers.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 00:15:58 GMTm" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG* Subject: Re: [OT]: Dvorak on killing Linux0 Message-ID: <00A3FE2D.BBE4EC85@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <111sihbb309f326@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:! >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote::Z >> In article <384shqF5jbofeU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>  / >>>In article <bZmdnfgnNfVhZoHfRVn-jQ@igs.net>,a) >>>	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:r >>>o7 >>>>http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1768170,00.aspe* >>>>(the article has 2 pages at this link) >>>> >>>>How to Kill Linux  >>>>ARTICLE DATE:  02.22.05h >>>> >>>>By  John C. Dvorak >>>cH >>>Dvorak once again shows how little he really knows about the computer
 >>>industry!!n >>   >> oH >> But he gets published and stupid people bite at every word he speaks. >>   >o >Those who can, do.n >  >Those who can't, write. >iF >Unfortunately, there are those who can't do either, and just blindly  >follow the writers.   I thought it was:d   Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue. M Those who can't sue, pay enormous fees to scum sucking bastard belly-crawling@M   pieces of shit for the privilage of making everyones live a miserable hell.o     -- sK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            t5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" m   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.111 ************************