1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 27 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 115       Contents: Re: CDRECORD v. RMS defaults Re: FTP post processing < Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request? Re: IA64 unraveling... Re: IA64 unraveling... Re: IA64 unraveling... Re: IA64 unraveling... Re: IA64 unraveling... Re: IA64 unraveling... Re: IA64 unraveling... Re: IA64 unraveling... Re: IA64 unraveling...3 RE: London Stock Exchange slowing moving to Windows 3 RE: London Stock Exchange slowing moving to Windows 8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points Re: Point Secure Re: Point Secure" Problem with a DEC terminal server Re: Sayonara Tukwilla  Re: Sayonara Tukwilla  Re: Sayonara Tukwilla  Re: Sayonara Tukwilla   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:37:01 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)% Subject: Re: CDRECORD v. RMS defaults 2 Message-ID: <05022614370109_2780027A@antinode.org>  C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann)   H > I'm interested to get the modification. It`s a pity that the Author ofA > cdrecord, Joerg Schilling, is unwilling to add OS-specific code ' > outside those parts he had defined...   E    Yeah.  I haven't looked at most of this stuff for a long time, but F the recent changes are not very intrusive.  It's generally a good ideaF to allow some system-specific things on open(), but here I had to pokeC directly into cdrecord.c instead of a convenient .h file somewhere.   D    It's possible that mkisofs could be made to write an image file a1 little faster, too, but I haven't looked at that.   E    I haven't looked elsewhere lately, either.  How obsolete is 1.8.1?   H    Anyway, to avoid leaving anything out, I just Zipped a clean (?) copyH of my whole source tree.  There are some change notes in VMS_NOTES.TXT. D Look for [...]*.*_orig and/or dates later than 2001.  Wake me if youD have any questions.  (As always, no warranty, expressed or implied.)  9       http://antinode.org/ftp/misc/cdrecord-1_8_1_vms.zip 4       ftp://antinode.org/misc/cdrecord-1_8_1_vms.zip   It's less than 2MB.       SMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:49:06 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>   Subject: Re: FTP post processing' Message-ID: <42210AF2.52B872CF@aaa.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > F > This comes up so often, perhaps it is time to tackle this and make a$ > formal request to VMS management ? > J > The ability to trigger some sort of post processing after an FTP session$ > seems to be quite often requested. >    Hi. A Since this seems as follwup on my question about FTP sessions and  "seeing" if a file is closed...   D Our former solution to the "know when the FTP session closes" was to4 have an additional REXEC step in the script (actualy JCL/MVS/IBM-mainframe)G that "remote submitted" the processing step. To save this extra step in  the B JCL's and to save an additional network session, we decided to tryD a polling solution. Works nicely now, polls each 10s and it's hardly" noticable in MONITOR on a DS20E...  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:24:00 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> E Subject: Re: How to make BACKUP fail instead of making OPCOM request? > Message-ID: <AV4Ud.36853$by5.11882@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>  @ "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message % news:421FEAFC.510F64ED@comcast.net...  > David B Sneddon wrote: >>) >> David J Dachtera was overheard to say: J >> > Actually, what is needed is a way to SET HOST and other commands with< >> > SYS$INPUT pointing to a file rather than the terminal.  >> > (HSZTERM$SCSIPAD,K >> > aka "SET HOST/SCSI" already does this, but is unique in that respect). H >> > Likewise, we need the equivalent of (ALPHA_)LOGGER to have the same >> > capability. >> > >> >> Kermit script?  >  > No. I need this: > & > $ DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT output_file# > $ DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT some_file  > $ MCR LOGGER > 2 > ...where "some_file" might contain, for example, >    This will probably work:  $ $ RUN JAMS_EXE:JAMS_PLAY_SESSION.EXE* SET HOST/DUP/SERV=MSCP$DUP/TASK=CLI HSJ004 SHOW THIS FULL SHOW OTHER FULL 
 SHOW UNITS SHOW UNITS FULL  SHOW STORAGESETS SHOW STORAGESETS FULL  SHOW DEVICES SHOW DEVICES FULL  EXIT $!  M I added the "probably" qualifier because I don't have an HSJ to test on but,   this does work:   $ $ RUN JAMS_EXE:JAMS_PLAY_SESSION.EXE
 SET HOST EARL  SYSTEM PASSWORD SHOW SYSTEM 
 SHOW TERMINAL  LOGOUT $!  . You can get JAMS_PLAY_SESSION.EXE by going to:   http://www.mvpsi.com  ' and requesting a free license for JAMS.    John Vottero   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:19:03 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam>  Subject: Re: IA64 unraveling... - Message-ID: <cvqi5a$23a8$1@news.cybercity.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Rob Young wrote: > G >>        Anyhow.... it is a good business decision on IBM's part.  The G >>        common chipset shows up in 2007, until then they use existing  >>        chipset.   >  > J > Ok, so Intel is working on a new chipset that will apply to IA64 in 2007, > ? What is the code name for this project ?  E Actuially what Rob is refering to is that Intel intend to market pin  E compatible versions of IA64 and x86 chips in 2007.  Thus they do not  F need to design chip sets specific for IA64.  But since when has Intel = been capable of bringing IA64 products to the market on time?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:35:52 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 unraveling... , Message-ID: <W4udnbgv28kFUr3fRVn-gA@igs.net>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  >> Rob Young wrote:  >>H >>>        Anyhow.... it is a good business decision on IBM's part.  TheH >>>        common chipset shows up in 2007, until then they use existing >>>        chipset.  >> >>F >> Ok, so Intel is working on a new chipset that will apply to IA64 in2 >> 2007 ? What is the code name for this project ? > F > Actuially what Rob is refering to is that Intel intend to market pinF > compatible versions of IA64 and x86 chips in 2007.  Thus they do notG > need to design chip sets specific for IA64.  But since when has Intel ? > been capable of bringing IA64 products to the market on time?     5 I hear that they are stocking up on the pins now  ;-)    --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2005 12:06:24 -0800 From: icerq4a@spray.se Subject: Re: IA64 unraveling... B Message-ID: <1109448384.354301.49240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Rob Young wrote:D > >         Anyhow.... it is a good business decision on IBM's part. The @ > >         common chipset shows up in 2007, until then they use existing > >         chipset. > E > Ok, so Intel is working on a new chipset that will apply to IA64 in  2007, > ? What is the code name for this project ?  E I don't think a codename has been released, but Intel sometimes calls : this CSI, which I believe is a shortname for Common SystemF Infrastructure. They have also used Common Platform Architecture (CPA)< for this. Some informed people have been saying that it is aB point-to-point architecture similar to EV7/Hypertransport, perhapsC using PCI Express as link transport. This is the thing that the EV8 C team is working on. BTW, the EV8 was supposed to support _glueless_ E scaling upto 512-way servers, so there is a chance that CSI will be a  very good thing.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2005 12:12:27 -0800 From: icerq4a@spray.se Subject: Re: IA64 unraveling... C Message-ID: <1109448747.860042.267820@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   4 Nej, det =E4r det inte. (In english, No, it's not.).  G BTW, when was the last time you posted anything useful on comp.os.vms ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 22:09:54 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com> Subject: Re: IA64 unraveling... > Message-ID: <Ss6Ud.26173$Yf5.2466756@twister.southeast.rr.com>  $ <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message = news:1109448747.860042.267820@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... 2 Nej, det r det inte. (In english, No, it's not.).  1 > BTW, when was the last time you posted anything  > useful on comp.os.vms ?     	 ROTFLMAO!      No offense Dave.  :)     Ken    OpenVMS.org % _____________________________________  Kenneth R. Farmer <>< % SpyderByte: http://www.SpyderByte.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:40:54 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 unraveling... 0 Message-ID: <11228oc2er14s7c@corp.supernews.com>   icerq4a@spray.se wrote: 4 > Nej, det r det inte. (In english, No, it's not.). > I > BTW, when was the last time you posted anything useful on comp.os.vms ?  > E Couple days ago.  The thread on files open for write.  How about you?    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:43:06 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: IA64 unraveling... 0 Message-ID: <11228sfse6ok8bf@corp.supernews.com>   Kenneth Farmer wrote: & > <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message ? > news:1109448747.860042.267820@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... 4 > Nej, det r det inte. (In english, No, it's not.). >  > 1 >>BTW, when was the last time you posted anything  >>useful on comp.os.vms ?  >  >  >  > ROTFLMAO!  >  >  > No offense Dave.  :)  H None taken.  I have a thick skin.  Have to have such to put up with the D last 6 years of BS.  Also have to have a pretty good sense of humor.  , Posted any more of JF's stories lately.  :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2005 21:57:22 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Re: IA64 unraveling... 3 Message-ID: <szTQmJiNOFHs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <1109432228.4461a445ebd73a65b4c09319fb329da3@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:  > Rob Young wrote:H >>         Anyhow.... it is a good business decision on IBM's part.  TheH >>         common chipset shows up in 2007, until then they use existing >>         chipset.    > J > Ok, so Intel is working on a new chipset that will apply to IA64 in 2007, > ? What is the code name for this project ?   Titanic :-)   	 Valuejet.     1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  G         Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea of $         liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2005 21:54:14 -0800 From: icerq4a@spray.se Subject: Re: IA64 unraveling... B Message-ID: <1109483654.957788.28420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Dave Froble wrote: > icerq4a@spray.se wrote: 8 > > Nej, det =E4r det inte. (In english, No, it's not.). > > = > > BTW, when was the last time you posted anything useful on 
 comp.os.vms ?  > > G > Couple days ago.  The thread on files open for write.  How about you?   4 OK, good. I don't know if I post anything useful. ;)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:53:53 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> < Subject: RE: London Stock Exchange slowing moving to WindowsR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F88C@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----: > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca]=20" > Sent: February 26, 2005 10:48 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: London Stock Exchange slowing moving to Windows >=20 > "Main, Kerry" wrote:D > > Generically speaking, if a Customer is determined to switch to a@ > > particular platform (no matter what vendor says), then as=20
 > long as the ? > > Customer fully understands the issues and risks, I would=20  > rather HP get F > > that platform and services integration business than a competitor. >=20( > Again, this is where HP gets it wrong. >=20  C Again, I have no idea what the LSE environment is and whether HP is . involved or not. They may be, they may not be.  B > IBM doesn't wait for the customer to come with an RFP. IBM stays: > involved with the customer BEFORE the RFP is written,=20 > ensuring that the H > IBM offerings are not shut out of the RFP. (or in some cases, ensuringD > the RFP is done in such a way that only IBM systems fit the bill). >=20  F That is not some magic strategy that IBM uses. That is RFP 101 basics.E Every SI wants to get in on "assisting" the Customer write the RFP so H they can influence the decision criteria to enhance their ability to winH a public RFP. It depends on whether the vendor has a relationship in the account or not.=20  F Btw, if you tick off the Dev Group Mgmt team by going over their head,H they will definitely find ways to tweak subsequent RFP's to keep you out of subsequent opportunities.=20   G I have also heard of scenario's where Sales types have been banned from H sites after the C level exec got so upset with the Vendor Sales type forE even talking to their senior management without his knowledge. In one E particular case it was an outsource discussion with senior execs that G back fired on the Vendor Sales types i.e. senior execs said essentially G "we are not interested", but word of that meeting was "leaked" to lower 	 C levels.   @ So, going over peoples heads can also work against you big time.  G In the Federal Govt of Canada, that is why in the larger bids will have E an outside SI work with them to write the RFP, with the understanding G that they can not bid on the RFP in anyway whatsoever. The language for 5 these bids are pretty strict about tampering as well.    [snip..] >=20H > If you don't even view this as losing a customer, how the hell are youH > supposed to see a red flag and take actions to prevent further loss of > customers ???????? >   E Who said anything about HP not taking something like this serious?=20   G Again, I have no idea of what the this particular Cust situation really G is, but generically speaking, anytime a Customer changes a platform, it A exposes the possibility of the new platform being from some other A vendor. That is Sales 101 that is typically not lost on any Sales 
 Account team.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:58:53 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> < Subject: RE: London Stock Exchange slowing moving to WindowsR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53F88D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----E > From: VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG]=20 " > Sent: February 26, 2005 11:42 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: London Stock Exchange slowing moving to Windows  	 [snip ..]    >=20( > http://www.despair.com/consulting.html >=20 > --=20   9 Vaxman - reminds me of old consulting "up sell" scenario-   G Cust: "Wow, things are really going great - I can now see some light at  the end of the tunnel!"   E Wise old Consultant mental note: "mmm... time to order more tunnel.."    :-)   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:51:17 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2602051651170001@user-105n9it.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <VWMXBp+BCH8E@sinead>, pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU,' CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) wrote:    >In article A <rdeininger-2602051137450001@user-105n8hu.dialup.mindspring.com>, 7 rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes: H >> In article <1109379855.97a4f2b49f0d83d805ddfa8693b8fff0@teranews>, JF. >> Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: >>   >>  K >>>> OpenVMS Itanium licensing will be simpler and cheaper. The three major  >>>> categories are: >>>> FOE - Foundation  >>>> EOE - Enterprise  >>>> MCOE - Mission Critical2 >>>> (languages will still be licensed separately) >>> I >>>Is there any "workstation" class licencing ? (Hoff has been so adament H >>>that VMS would remain available in workstation-configured servers, so! >>>one must ask about licencing).  >>  P >> FOE is likely the license bundle most customers will want for "workstations". > J >And what about a dual core dual thread IA64 ? Will the licence be 2 or 4 P >times higher than the actual ?  And will mono-processor servers be available ?   H I don't think HP has quite decided how to license cores and threads.  MyF guess is that each core will count as a CPU, but multiple threads will only count as one.  @ I expect HP will continue to sell servers with only 1 CPU socket? populated.  It is up to Intel whether they offer a single-core, # single-thread version of Montecito.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:05:38 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points , Message-ID: <yN6dnWMbYMkub73fRVn-1Q@igs.net>   Robert Deininger wrote: H > In article <VWMXBp+BCH8E@sinead>, pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU,) > CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) wrote:  > 
 >> In article C > <rdeininger-2602051137450001@user-105n8hu.dialup.mindspring.com>, 9 > rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes: F >>> In article <1109379855.97a4f2b49f0d83d805ddfa8693b8fff0@teranews>, >>> JF/ >>> Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  >>>  >>> F >>>>> OpenVMS Itanium licensing will be simpler and cheaper. The three >>>>> major categories are:  >>>>> FOE - Foundation >>>>> EOE - Enterprise >>>>> MCOE - Mission Critical 3 >>>>> (languages will still be licensed separately)  >>>>C >>>> Is there any "workstation" class licencing ? (Hoff has been so F >>>> adament that VMS would remain available in workstation-configured/ >>>> servers, so one must ask about licencing).  >>> A >>> FOE is likely the license bundle most customers will want for  >>> "workstations".  >>F >> And what about a dual core dual thread IA64 ? Will the licence be 2G >> or 4 times higher than the actual ?  And will mono-processor servers  >> be available ?  > F > I don't think HP has quite decided how to license cores and threads.F > My guess is that each core will count as a CPU, but multiple threads > will only count as one.  > B > I expect HP will continue to sell servers with only 1 CPU socketA > populated.  It is up to Intel whether they offer a single-core, % > single-thread version of Montecito.     ) Oracle is looking to license by-the-core.   K One concern I have about that is that there appears to be the beginnings of   a price war in the rdbms market.  K Ordinarily I'd say that this is a good thing. But my enthusiasm is tempered G that if fewer lower-priced Oracle or Rdb licences are sold into the VMS 0 market, Oracle will be sorely tempted to either:  K a) keep prices high on the VMS platform, which in turn will make the dollar C economics of a VMS-based solution look unattractive to existing and F prospective customers thereby further exacerbating the 411,000 systems@ growing at 12% per annum myth (or less depending on the realtive2 dollar-value of the systems sold vs. retirements), orK b) Oracle could decide that enough is enough and EOL Rdb and Oracle Classic  on VMS.   L I'm not sure that customers currently pushing the limits of Rdb or Oracle on< VMS will perceive MySQL to be a suitable replacement on VMS.   --- OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:10:42 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points + Message-ID: <4220F3E2.AF853D89@comcast.net>    John Smith wrote:  >  > Robert Deininger wrote: J > > In article <VWMXBp+BCH8E@sinead>, pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU,+ > > CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) wrote:  > >  > >> In article E > > <rdeininger-2602051137450001@user-105n8hu.dialup.mindspring.com>, ; > > rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes: H > >>> In article <1109379855.97a4f2b49f0d83d805ddfa8693b8fff0@teranews>, > >>> JF1 > >>> Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  > >>>  > >>> H > >>>>> OpenVMS Itanium licensing will be simpler and cheaper. The three > >>>>> major categories are:  > >>>>> FOE - Foundation > >>>>> EOE - Enterprise > >>>>> MCOE - Mission Critical 5 > >>>>> (languages will still be licensed separately)  > >>>>E > >>>> Is there any "workstation" class licencing ? (Hoff has been so H > >>>> adament that VMS would remain available in workstation-configured1 > >>>> servers, so one must ask about licencing).  > >>> C > >>> FOE is likely the license bundle most customers will want for  > >>> "workstations".  > >>H > >> And what about a dual core dual thread IA64 ? Will the licence be 2I > >> or 4 times higher than the actual ?  And will mono-processor servers  > >> be available ?  > > H > > I don't think HP has quite decided how to license cores and threads.H > > My guess is that each core will count as a CPU, but multiple threads > > will only count as one.  > > D > > I expect HP will continue to sell servers with only 1 CPU socketC > > populated.  It is up to Intel whether they offer a single-core, ' > > single-thread version of Montecito.  > + > Oracle is looking to license by-the-core.  > M > One concern I have about that is that there appears to be the beginnings of " > a price war in the rdbms market. > M > Ordinarily I'd say that this is a good thing. But my enthusiasm is tempered I > that if fewer lower-priced Oracle or Rdb licences are sold into the VMS 2 > market, Oracle will be sorely tempted to either: > M > a) keep prices high on the VMS platform, which in turn will make the dollar E > economics of a VMS-based solution look unattractive to existing and H > prospective customers thereby further exacerbating the 411,000 systemsB > growing at 12% per annum myth (or less depending on the realtive4 > dollar-value of the systems sold vs. retirements), > orM > b) Oracle could decide that enough is enough and EOL Rdb and Oracle Classic 	 > on VMS.  > N > I'm not sure that customers currently pushing the limits of Rdb or Oracle on> > VMS will perceive MySQL to be a suitable replacement on VMS.  B Biz Opp.: Commercial support of MySQL in large-scale applications.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2005 16:46:05 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points 3 Message-ID: <qMdsfr2hM4kB@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-2602051147380001@user-105n8hu.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  I > Many alphaserver systems and components will not be sellable in certain / > parts of the world due to regulatory changes.   ? What sort of regulations ?  Energy Star ?  Handicapped Access ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:19:55 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points B Message-ID: <1109459263.6ea337ffedd7dfea9f855d95bbd2692a@teranews>   Robert Deininger wrote: B > Since Alpha servers are quite a lot more expensive to build than$ > Integrity, that seems reasonable.   G I really hate to see HP employees adopt this fatalistic acceptance that  Alpha can't compete.  H Unless they still have Alpha engineers to produce EV79 to bridge the gapB until VMS runs on the 8086, HP spends 0 on R&D for alpha and alphaD server developments. There is no way that Alpha could cost more than
 IA64 systems.   ? As far as the argument that Alpha were never tweaked to be more C "commoodity", that this bullshit. Under Compaq, the DS systems were D built to support cheap disks for instance, and they used some commonF power supplies etc etc. So there was quite a bit of rework to make the" systems more commodity part based.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:10:08 -0500 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points 1 Message-ID: <q6OdnfjcqJt5krzfRVn-tg@adelphia.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:N > In article <rdeininger-2602051147380001@user-105n8hu.dialup.mindspring.com>, > (Robert Deininger) writes: > I >>Many alphaserver systems and components will not be sellable in certain / >>parts of the world due to regulatory changes.  > A > What sort of regulations ?  Energy Star ?  Handicapped Access ?   A Environmental.  Several of the elements or compounds used in the  = components will be banned in the future in certain countries.   G http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/netregs/legislation/380525/477158/    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:18:47 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points : Message-ID: <%l8Ud.37225$uO.1011755@news20.bellglobal.com>  / "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message  & news:yN6dnWMbYMkub73fRVn-1Q@igs.net...  C >> I expect HP will continue to sell servers with only 1 CPU socket B >> populated.  It is up to Intel whether they offer a single-core,& >> single-thread version of Montecito. >  > + > Oracle is looking to license by-the-core.  >   M A presenter in the seminar they stated that Microsoft is going to licence by  J the socket. Someone else mentioned that Microsoft intended to really drop K the price of its database products. So the question here is "can Microsoft   get Oracle to do the same?"   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:33:57 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points 0 Message-ID: <11228bacmlbm1a7@corp.supernews.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: G > In article <1109432950.a26641917fdcc5339d4be17f81ccc780@teranews>, JF . > Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: >  >  > L >>>The last day for ordering an Alpha system from HP will be 2006-09-30 with" >>>last ship day to be 2006-12-31. >>F >>Will HP make a big splash and cast this in stone, or is this a trialJ >>balloon ? If VMS sales are growing, this would mean that Alpha sales areF >>growing and there should be no reason to can the product that has noI >>more development costs to it. HP/Compaq hadv long and often stated that 8 >>they would sell alphas as long as demand warranted it. >  > I > Many alphaserver systems and components will not be sellable in certain H > parts of the world due to regulatory changes.  Evaluating hardware forB > compliance with the new regs is expensive; re-engineering to getH > non-compliant stuff into compliance is exceedingly expensive.  The newH > regulations will cause a lot of low-volume products to retire somewhat$ > earlier than they otherwise would.  I What new regs are involved?  Where?  What's in a DS15 that is so much of  
 a problem?   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:32:25 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points 0 Message-ID: <112288g53rmok75@corp.supernews.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: L > In article <4IadnW7fT-L9O73fRVn-tA@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> > wrote: >  > ...  >  > H >>>>The last day for ordering an Alpha system from HP will be 2006-09-30( >>>>with last ship day to be 2006-12-31. >>> G >>>Will HP make a big splash and cast this in stone, or is this a trial G >>>balloon ? If VMS sales are growing, this would mean that Alpha sales H >>>are growing and there should be no reason to can the product that hasH >>>no more development costs to it. HP/Compaq hadv long and often stated> >>>that they would sell alphas as long as demand warranted it. >>N >>1) Alpha performance only has one direction to go vs. Itanic at this point - >>down. E >>2) HP will ensure that new Alpha's remain more expensive than IA64.  >  > B > Since Alpha servers are quite a lot more expensive to build thanH > Integrity, that seems reasonable.  I suppose HP could cut the price ofG > Alpha systems and sell them at a loss, and undercut IA64 that way.  I ? > can't think of a good reason to do so off the top of my head.  >  > ...   G You've been singing this song for a while now, with never any details.  I The way I see it, if the development is done, and it's just cranking out  F more boxes, it's justifiable to question your claim.  What part(s) is  causing the cost to be more?  9 Enclosures?  the tooling is in place, and steel is steel.   @ CPUs? Ok, what's the cost of an Alpha CPU, and an itanic, to HP?   Disks? No possible difference.  L Motherboard and components?  They're all in production, just keep producing.  < Memory?  Another commodity.  And IA64 seems to require more.  E Where is your extra cost to continue to pump out DS15s, DS25s, ES45s?   G Possibly the big stuff has rather high cost low volume parts.  But the   design is over.   D I think it's time for this claim to gain some substance, or go away.   Or is it Intel subsidies?    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:51:57 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points B Message-ID: <1109468373.d1f55e8806a52a1224d145cf93e31a01@teranews>   Dave Froble wrote:  J > What new regs are involved?  Where?  What's in a DS15 that is so much of > a problem?  H In fairness, Europe is puting in strict environmental/recycling laws forF computers. (which may impact HP printers and ink cartridges far more).E It might be a case of having to spend money to register the units and H incorporate them into whatever recycling programme HP will be setting up? for the rest of its gear. (again, another example of needing to 1 integrate VMS into HP's mainstream product lines.   R However, HP could simply widthdraw sales in Europe and continue to sell elsewhere.    G So what happens on the date of last sale to any inventory of systems HP  might still have ?????   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:00:28 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points / Message-ID: <11229t2uu26l80@corp.supernews.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: >  > J >>What new regs are involved?  Where?  What's in a DS15 that is so much of >>a problem? >  > J > In fairness, Europe is puting in strict environmental/recycling laws forH > computers. (which may impact HP printers and ink cartridges far more).G > It might be a case of having to spend money to register the units and J > incorporate them into whatever recycling programme HP will be setting upA > for the rest of its gear. (again, another example of needing tov3 > integrate VMS into HP's mainstream product lines.m > T > However, HP could simply widthdraw sales in Europe and continue to sell elsewhere. >  > I > So what happens on the date of last sale to any inventory of systems HP  > might still have ?????  E That assumes they will have on shelf inventory.  They could build to d/ customer orders.  Kind of tough at the low end.   I Any such will be used by the HW service people.  Something somewhere has n
 got to break.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 04:04:39 GMTe5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointsML Message-ID: <rdeininger-2602052304390001@user-uinj447.dialup.mindspring.com>  E In article <1109459263.6ea337ffedd7dfea9f855d95bbd2692a@teranews>, JF + Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:0   >Robert Deininger wrote:C >> Since Alpha servers are quite a lot more expensive to build thani% >> Integrity, that seems reasonable. s >eH >I really hate to see HP employees adopt this fatalistic acceptance that >Alpha can't compete.4 > I >Unless they still have Alpha engineers to produce EV79 to bridge the gapoC >until VMS runs on the 8086, HP spends 0 on R&D for alpha and alpha E >server developments. There is no way that Alpha could cost more than  >IA64 systems.  E THE COMPONENTS IN ALPHASERVERS COST A LOT MORE THAN THE COMPONENTS IN- INTEGRITY SERVERS.  I So unless you have some way to convince vendors to donate the material touH HP, or you want HP to steal the stuff, very little can be done about theE cost of alphaservers.  If you could rewind the last decade or so, andeH change the priorities of the design teams, yeah, I guess you could build" Alphaservers for a lot less money.  @ >As far as the argument that Alpha were never tweaked to be more" >"commoodity", that this bullshit.  $ Really?  Which ones did you work on?  # > Under Compaq, the DS systems weresE >built to support cheap disks for instance, and they used some commontG >power supplies etc etc. So there was quite a bit of rework to make theo# >systems more commodity part based.s  J There was some work in that direction on Alphaservers.  You see the resultF in the selling prices of systems like DS15.  Not terribly impressive. H (Actually, power supplies on Alpha systems were often FAR from low-cost,F commondity components, and there was relatively little re-use from oneE system to another.  Much low-hanging fruit was never harvested in ther power supply orchard.)  E The current crop of low-end Integrity servers were designed, in large F part, to be inexpensive to manufacture.  And compared to Alphaservers,< they are.  Sorry if that doesn't fit your view of the world.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 04:39:23 GMT-5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)rA Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointsRL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2602052339220001@user-105n8gf.dialup.mindspring.com>  < In article <112288g53rmok75@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote:M >> In article <4IadnW7fT-L9O73fRVn-tA@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 	 >> wrote:b >> t >> ... >> s >>  I >>>>>The last day for ordering an Alpha system from HP will be 2006-09-30n) >>>>>with last ship day to be 2006-12-31.  >>>>H >>>>Will HP make a big splash and cast this in stone, or is this a trialH >>>>balloon ? If VMS sales are growing, this would mean that Alpha salesI >>>>are growing and there should be no reason to can the product that has I >>>>no more development costs to it. HP/Compaq hadv long and often statedu? >>>>that they would sell alphas as long as demand warranted it.  >>>NO >>>1) Alpha performance only has one direction to go vs. Itanic at this point -2 >>>down.F >>>2) HP will ensure that new Alpha's remain more expensive than IA64. >> a >> CC >> Since Alpha servers are quite a lot more expensive to build thanbI >> Integrity, that seems reasonable.  I suppose HP could cut the price ofoH >> Alpha systems and sell them at a loss, and undercut IA64 that way.  I@ >> can't think of a good reason to do so off the top of my head. >> > >> ... >,G >You've been singing this song for a while now, with never any details.P   First, I don't sing.  Ever.a  J I think it should be fairly obvious that cost details are proprietary, and( it is no accident that I omit them.  Ok?  J >The way I see it, if the development is done, and it's just cranking out G >more boxes, it's justifiable to question your claim.  What part(s) is   >causing the cost to be more?_ >e: >Enclosures?  the tooling is in place, and steel is steel.  E Do you design and buy many enclosures?  Do you have any idea how manybJ details can be added or left out in a "simple" enclosure?  The details allI cost money.  Steel is NOT just steel, and plastic is NOT just plastic.  AFC change in color scheme costs significant design money, for example.V  A >CPUs? Ok, what's the cost of an Alpha CPU, and an itanic, to HP?n  ? Yeah, like I'm going to post that here.  The difference is BIG.E   >Disks? No possible difference.R  > Disks are the same.  The two styles of front-loading, hot-swapI storageworks bricks are quite different, and I expect the costs are quiten different as well.    M >Motherboard and components?  They're all in production, just keep producing.2  G Yup, that's easy.  Just sign the checks to all the suppliers.  Have youuI designed and bought many high-performance circuit boards lately?  This iskE an area where lots of tradeoffs are possible.  Added costs accumulate  pretty fast.  = >Memory?  Another commodity.  And IA64 seems to require more.s  J Memory chips are pretty much commodities.  DIMMs and RIMMs often are not. C If you think sourcing memory components for servers is trivial, you7I probably haven't thought about it very much.  But memory cost is probablye5 not a big differentiator between alpha and integrity.e  F >Where is your extra cost to continue to pump out DS15s, DS25s, ES45s?  B Just buy the parts and put them together.  Same as rx1600, rx2600,F rx4640.  Or your run-off-the-mill PC.  We should expect all of them to cost the same, right?   H >Possibly the big stuff has rather high cost low volume parts.  But the  >design is over.  G All the alphaservers and all the integrity servers (and all the PA-RISCw! servers) are low volume products.Y  E >I think it's time for this claim to gain some substance, or go away.   J Take it or leave it; I really don't care.  Your comments seem particularlyI naive.  I don't think you want information; you want to argue.  I'll take  your advice and go away.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:47:37 GMTc# From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com>a Subject: Re: Point Securen< Message-ID: <Z76Ud.123250$JF2.62180@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>  H The VMS Colorado Call Center thinks very highly of this product and can G add a lot of value to a customer planning to integrate this into their   environment.       Alex Daniels wrote:   . > <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message, > news:00A3FEC6.E08F52DD@SendSpamHere.ORG... > K >>In article <EdJTd.21865$bp3.8833@fe03.lga>, "Dan Moore" <dmoore@sosu.edu>R > 	 > writes:i > ? >>Is there another product that offers all of these features in. >>L >>>one package? I'm also interested to hear about system performance impact, >>>which I'm told is minimal.. >> >>SecurityGuard! >> >>http://www.provn.com/, >> >> >>-- y2 >>VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker >  > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 6 >>  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >  > B > I use the Intruder Alert and AUDIT parts of it, would recommend. >  > Alex >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 02:50:05 GMTe" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Point Secureh0 Message-ID: <00A3FFD5.9896F0BE@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <Z76Ud.123250$JF2.62180@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> writes:I >The VMS Colorado Call Center thinks very highly of this product and can wH >add a lot of value to a customer planning to integrate this into their 
 >environment.a  B It's nice to hear that call center thinks highly of SecurityGuard.   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMi            g5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" s   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 03:17:53 GMTe1 From: drwho8__NOTME__@att.net (The Eighth Doctor)o+ Subject: Problem with a DEC terminal server-F Message-ID: <BZaUd.81854$Th1.81032@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>   Hello from Gregg C LevinejK I have here a DECserver 90L+. According to the manual which I have here, I uR connected a PC to one of its ports, using a temporary plug. Then set the terminal W software to a default of 9600,8,n,1. (Which I suspect isn't the correct settings.) And  U then when I turned the T/S on, and pressed enter, twice, instead of getting a prompt FR sequence, I got garbage. Does anyone know the correct way to do a "factory reset"  for the thing? -----  Gregg drwho8 atsign att dot net/ "This signature isn't at home."-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:03:27 -0600F2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Sayonara Tukwilla+ Message-ID: <4220F22F.C4C58760@comcast.net>.   Robert Deininger wrote:e > 5 > In article <BuWrbJYQTxAM@eisner.encompasserve.org>,h. > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote: >  > ...  > L > >> Yeah.  Either this is going to be about as momentous as NEC's 'embrace'K > >> of Itanic for the past few years, or (if Fujitsu does as good a job asrJ > >> they have with SPARC64) it'll be good news for Intel but bad news for > >> Integrity & Superdome.r > >eG > >        Superdome is long in the tooth.  Surely something new in thegG > >        wings, but of course not much chatter or it freezes existinge > >        sales.  > * > Yes, there's something new in the wings.   (Dons dental smock)   & Are you at liberty to release details?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:u" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/f  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/6   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:57:36 -0500m' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>a Subject: Re: Sayonara Tukwilla0 Message-ID: <11229nmod2v1q39@corp.supernews.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:s > Robert Deininger wrote:  > 5 >>In article <BuWrbJYQTxAM@eisner.encompasserve.org>,a. >>young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote: >> >>...  >> >>K >>>>Yeah.  Either this is going to be about as momentous as NEC's 'embrace'wJ >>>>of Itanic for the past few years, or (if Fujitsu does as good a job asI >>>>they have with SPARC64) it'll be good news for Intel but bad news forI >>>>Integrity & Superdome. >>>pF >>>       Superdome is long in the tooth.  Surely something new in theF >>>       wings, but of course not much chatter or it freezes existing >>>       sales. >>* >>Yes, there's something new in the wings. >  >  > (Dons dental smock)o > ( > Are you at liberty to release details? >   H I'd think that if such were true, (at liberty to release details), we'd D already have heard about it.  It's not good to push someone who has G possibly already said more than he should have said.  There are limits.t   Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 04:40:47 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)d Subject: Re: Sayonara TukwillaL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2602052340480001@user-105n8gf.dialup.mindspring.com>  N In article <4220F22F.C4C58760@comcast.net>, djesysno@spam.earthlink.net wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote: >> e6 >> In article <BuWrbJYQTxAM@eisner.encompasserve.org>,/ >> young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:i >> v >> ... >> sM >> >> Yeah.  Either this is going to be about as momentous as NEC's 'embrace'.L >> >> of Itanic for the past few years, or (if Fujitsu does as good a job asK >> >> they have with SPARC64) it'll be good news for Intel but bad news fori >> >> Integrity & Superdome. >> >H >> >        Superdome is long in the tooth.  Surely something new in theH >> >        wings, but of course not much chatter or it freezes existing >> >        sales. >> a+ >> Yes, there's something new in the wings.  >u >(Dons dental smock) >t' >Are you at liberty to release details?r  	 Alas, no.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2005 21:59:38 -0800 From: icerq4a@spray.se Subject: Re: Sayonara TukwillaC Message-ID: <1109483978.637780.215170@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>n  * > Yes, there's something new in the wings.  < I guess zx2 and sx1000(with a new name) with 667 Mhz FSB...? for Montecito and Montvale.t    Then in 2007 CSI for Tukwila...?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.115 ************************ringD > the 'QG0O&Tz:6I!idS<bdSd6ِM'K8,xI_HqLk~ІG}̸ߚat.fU/rPIWl3)y<oҾ*	ԩ}m%iFg^`>twC,4ٛ*8V+
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