1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 28 Feb 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 118       Contents: 7.21 vs 7.32 file allocation  Re: 7.21 vs 7.32 file allocationP A comparison  among VSS Remote Access Tools including SourceOffSite, SourceAnyWh Re: Backup /ALIAS question Re: CDRECORD v. RMS defaults Changing Tape Device protection # Re: Changing Tape Device protection ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write". ' Re: Checking for "file open for write".  Re: HSZ70 Trouble  Re: HSZ70 Trouble  RE: IA64 unraveling... Re: IA64 unraveling...E Interesting error message I just got trying to access accuweather.com I Re: Interesting error message I just got trying to access accuweather.com  Re: Logfile name Re: Logfile name Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100  Re: no device wsa0: ?  help  Re: no device wsa0: ?  help  Re: no device wsa0: ?  help  Re: no device wsa0: ?  help " Open letter to VMS Marketing (sic)8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points8 Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.  Re: Point Secure Re: Point Secure Re: Point Secure VMS Alpha 8.2 with CSWS 2.0  Re: VMS Alpha 8.2 with CSWS 2.0  Re: VMS Alpha 8.2 with CSWS 2.0  Re: VMS Alpha 8.2 with CSWS 2.0 8 What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk?< Re: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk?< Re: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk?< Re: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk?< Re: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk?< Re: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk? [DS15] DECW or hardware hang ?" Re: [DS15] DECW or hardware hang ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 09:01:17 -0800 From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com % Subject: 7.21 vs 7.32 file allocation A Message-ID: <1109610077.158601.5740@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   A 7.21 allocated files in 18 block increments, but after an upgrade B to 7.32 I see that all files are allocated in 69 block increments.   What determines this increment?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:54:54 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ) Subject: Re: 7.21 vs 7.32 file allocation 0 Message-ID: <1126m6knqevd48b@corp.supernews.com>   tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:C > 7.21 allocated files in 18 block increments, but after an upgrade D > to 7.32 I see that all files are allocated in 69 block increments. > ! > What determines this increment?  >   % Among other things, disk clustersize.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 00:48:55 -08007 From: "bettervssremoting" <bettervssremoting@yahoo.com> Y Subject: A comparison  among VSS Remote Access Tools including SourceOffSite, SourceAnyWh B Message-ID: <1109580535.948790.93880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  & To view the full article, please visit  http://www.BetterVssRemoting.com     Better VSS Remote Access Tool   > This article makes a detailed comparison among SourceAnyWhere,0 SourceOffSite, VSS Remoting and possible others.  A Keywords: VSS Remote Access, VSS Web Access, VSS Internet Access, ; SourceSafe Remote Access, SourceSafe Web Access, SourceSafe   < Internet Access, SourceOffSite, SourceAnyWhere, VSS Remoting   Index  1. Overview  2. Comparison Summary  3. Test Environment  4. Test Methodology  5. Breakdown	 5.1 Speed 
 5.2 Stability  5.3 Security 5.4 VSS Feature Support 
 5.5 Usability  5.6 Diff/Merge 5.7SCCI Integration  5.8 Cross Platform 6 Others     1. Overview     D What does the article do? It makes a comparison among SourceAnyWhere, 3.1, SourceOffSite 4.1 and VSS Remoting 2.5.  @ Our initiative is to make an unbiased, objective, repeatable and verifiable comparison:B   a. Real project is used. The project I use is eMule, which is at& http://sourceforge.net/projects/emule/D   b. Detailed steps are presented. You can follow the detailed steps easily. 7   c. If you want to make a comment, I can be reached at  bettervssremoting@yahoo.com.  < If you need more info, please visit their official websites:  # SourceAnyWhere (SAW) from DynamSoft  http://www.dynamsoft.com  # SourceOffSite (SOS) from SourceGear  http://www.sourcegear.com   " VSS Remoting  from Source Remoting http://www.sourceremoting.com   ( Want to add a product?      Write to me: bettervssremoting@yahoo.com   G The real result may vary if you do the test in different environment or 4 different files are used. However, the basic concept  C of this comparison, such as which one is the fastest, which one has 3 more VSS features, should be applicable everywhere.     & To view the full article, please go to  http://www.bettervssremoting.com    0 2. Comparison Summary (5 star ***** is the best)   Speed Comparison  SAW                        ***** SOS                        **  VSS Remoting               **    Stability Comparison SAW                        ****  SOS                        *** VSS Remoting               **    Security SAW                        ****  SOS                        *** VSS Remoting               ***   VSS Feature Support  SAW                        ****  SOS                        ****  VSS Remoting               ****   	 Usability  SAW                        ****  SOS                        **  VSS Remoting               **   
 Diff/Merge SAW                        ****  SOS                        ****  VSS Remoting               **    IDE Integration  SAW                        *** SOS                        *** VSS Remoting               ****    Cross Platform SAW                        * SOS                        ****  VSS Remoting               ***   Speed:F I am totally surprised and excited by the speed of SourceAnyWhere. For6 Get, Checkout and other operations, SourceAnyWhere can    > be up to 40+ times faster than SourceOffSite and VSS Remoting.    
 Stability:7 SourceAnyWhere never has any problem in the whole test.   ) VSS Remoting has difficulty to add files.   G SourceOffSite has several problems when it comes to stability. It fails 5 often when I try to add big files. The big problem of   G SourceOffSite is cancel. There is no cancel support in IDE integration. 5 After a cancel operation in Add, Checkin, Checkout or   D Get in SourceOffSite Explorer, the CPU usage of SourceOffSite server8 goes up to almost 100% and can not come down, unless the   server is restarted.  	 Security: 8 What makes SourceAnyWhere unique is the password policy.* All the products use 128-bit cryptography.. SourceOffSite and SourceAnyWhere use BlowFish. VSS Remoting uses HTTPS.     VSS Feature Support:3 Weakness and strengths equally exist in them three.     
 Usability:A SAW is the best. All the Windows of SAW is in Win32 style. It can * detect if a file is changed automatically.    
 Diff/Merge; In File Diff (2-way)/File Merge (3-way), SourceAnyWhere and 7 SourceOffSite run neck and neck; VSS Remoting has a low  performance    IDE Integration:A SourceAnyWhere, SourceOffSite and VSS Remoting all support MSSCCI  Integration.- VSS Remoting supports DreamWeaver integration   C I have not tested the IDE integration intensively. I give this rate / just according to manual of the three products.      Cross Platform: F SourceOffSite can cross most popular platforms, VSS Remoting has a web, interface which can login server through web     3. Test Environment   	 Test Data    Real project is used for test C All eMule0.44c and eMule0.44d files are downloaded from Sourceforge A Download eMule0.44c (3.1M) and eMule0.44d (3.1M) used in the test + Big Files are simulated files created by us    Server Configuration  + P4, 2.8G, 256M RAM, Windows XP Professional ) SourceAnyWhere profession 3.1 DEMO Server . SourceOffSite4.1 with Cryptography DEMO Server VSS Remoting Server 2.5  Visual SourceSafe6.0 + Sp6   Client Configuration  ' P4 Celeron 2.0G, 256M RAM, Windows 2003  ADSL connection  SourceAnyWhere profession 3.1 # SourceOffSite 4.1 with Cryptography  VSS Remoting Client 2.5      4. Test Methodology   D All the three products are tested on the same computers and internet
 connection  6 All the three products are tested on the same data set  7 All the three products are tested with the same process   3 For speed test, every action is carried out 5 times   > The initial state of the VSS database is empty (newly created)     5. Breakdown  B To view the detailed test results and other features, please visit  http://www.BetterVssRemoting.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:26:27 -0500 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca># Subject: Re: Backup /ALIAS question 1 Message-ID: <CJGUd.106$g4.1675@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   % I use /NOALIAS whenever I do a /IMAGE   , But the problem is on the restore operation.B When restoring directories with aliases, I have to manually do SET FILE/ENTER after the restore.   + $ back sys$sysdevice:[sys*...]*.*.*/noalias ! $1$dga64:[temp]s.bck/sav/igno=int  erl I %BACKUP-W-ADNOTSAVED, alias directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0]SYSCOMMON.DIR;1  and it s directory tree not savedI %BACKUP-W-ADNOTSAVED, alias directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS1]SYSCOMMON.DIR;1  and it s directory tree not savedL %BACKUP-W-AFNOTSAVED, alias file SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0]SYSCOMMON.DIR;1 was not sav  edL %BACKUP-W-AFNOTSAVED, alias file SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS1]SYSCOMMON.DIR;1 was not sav  ed $ = $ back $1$dga64:[temp]s.bck/sav $1$dga64:[temp...]*.*.*/alias ' $ dir $1$dga64:[temp.sys0]SYSCOMMON.dir ! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found    This is very cumbersome.  K If, otoh, I use the /ALIAS qualifier in the backup, the restore will create 6 multiple copies of the files, which is somewhat worse.  L Anyone knows how to do a good restore with file aliases? I can recreate themK manually because I know what they are on my system, but it's far from being  ideal.   Thanks       --   Syltrem   H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)D "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> a crit dans le message de< news:1109380457.8fbc6bef2a87186d3a7da440cb6bab7f@teranews...J > Help backup /alias is very confusing. What was the previous behaviour of! > backup which /alias preserves ?  >  > ( > Would it be simpler to just state that > 6 > /ALIAS backs up both the file entry and the contentsH > /NOALIAS backs up contents of primary file entry but only file entries
 > of aliases.  > 6 > Or am I misunderstanding what /NOLIAS really means ?   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 10:32:35 +0100C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) % Subject: Re: CDRECORD v. RMS defaults 2 Message-ID: <4222e533$1@merkur.rz.uni-konstanz.de>  C In article <05022716211763_27800279@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org  (Steven  M. Schweda) writes: D >From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) > H >> >   It's possible that mkisofs could be made to write an image file a5 >> >little faster, too, but I haven't looked at that.  >>  ' >> I assume a huge speedup for mkisofs.  > G >   On a small test (22MB), just "SET RMS /BLOCK = 127 /EXTEND = 16384" D >cut the time from about 50s to about 15s.  Perhaps two buffers withG >read-ahead/write-behind would help a bit more.  Clearly, there's a lot , >of potential for improvement in this stuff. > I >> >   I haven't looked elsewhere lately, either.  How obsolete is 1.8.1?  >>  H >> V1.8.1 of cdrecord  is a stone age version. V2.x ist the most recent. > E >   Well, it's all newer than my hardware.  I see that the version of H >CDRECORD supplied by HP is 1.10.  Does anyone know if any work was done- >on it, or was it just captured and packaged?   F ftp://v36.chemie.uni-konstanz.de/CDRECORD_VMS/CDRTOOLS-2_01A24_VMS.ZIP  G If you are a little bit patient, a newer version is online for download  soon.   G BTW: Something seems be wrong with the newest dqdriver, that comes with G VMS732_DRIVER-V0100. If the is no disk inserted in my DVD-burner during 9 startup the drive goes offline and remains in that state.    regards  Eberhard   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 02:30:06 -0800 From: mike.whorley@coda.com ( Subject: Changing Tape Device protectionC Message-ID: <1109586606.214387.231950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   C Please can someone advise how I can change the protection on a tape 4 device to allow no priveledged users to read tapes ?   $ sh dev mk/full  @ Magtape $2$MKB400: (TOPPER), device type SUN DLT4000, is online,
 file-oriented D     device, error logging is enabled, controller supports compaction (compaction       disabled).   <     Error count                    0    Operations completed       0 1     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W ;     Reference count                0    Default buffer size     2048 .     Density                  unknown    Format	 Normal-11 $     Allocation class               2  C   Volume status:  no-unload on dismount, position lost, odd parity.      $ alloc mkb400G %SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violation    Many thanks in anticipation.   Mike.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 07:53:20 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: Changing Tape Device protection3 Message-ID: <EyEnHSN08kd4@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <1109586606.214387.231950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, mike.whorley@coda.com writes: E > Please can someone advise how I can change the protection on a tape 6 > device to allow no priveledged users to read tapes ? >  > $ sh dev mk/full > F >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W      Change that with   <       $set security mkb400: /protection=w:rwlp /class=device  C    Which I have in my systartup_vms.com on all my systems since 6.0 7    for all tape drives that unprviliged users must use.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 07:30:08 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".3 Message-ID: <dEX9p6WvLIO1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <cvp8rj$fcr$1@sparta.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes: > Hi,  > M > I'm happy to be proved wrong but, my understanding is that on a stand alone 3 > node there is *no* DLM lock. OTY or Paul or Hein?   E    The code is the same, whether you're clustered or not.  The DLM is F    perfectly happy to run on a stand-alone system, and the file systemE    is perfectly happy to use it.  The DLM just doesn't have to bother     talking SCS to other nodes.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 07:32:01 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".3 Message-ID: <$gJSlgnd5zvX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   N In article <cbfUd.57928$uc.15795@trnddc04>, John Santos <john@egh.com> writes: > I > The FTP (or whatever file transfer) server knows (or should know, don't H > know enough details of the FTP protocol to be sure) whether it got allF > the packets in the right order (this is supposed to be guaranteed byF > TCP) and the "That's all folks!" message at the end of the file, and5 > that it successfully wrote the whole thing to disk.   D    In order to allow for broken connections, FTP saves as much as itA    gets and implements a restart capability.  I've never seen the $    latter used, but it's in the RFC.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:58:35 -0800  From: JBloggs@acme.com0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".8 Message-ID: <pof62193q5f7pipc6n6nfeadq77tuldj19@4ax.com>  C On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 08:05:28 GMT, John Santos <john@egh.com> wrote:   H >The FTP (or whatever file transfer) server knows (or should know, don'tG >know enough details of the FTP protocol to be sure) whether it got all E >the packets in the right order (this is supposed to be guaranteed by E >TCP) and the "That's all folks!" message at the end of the file, and J >that it successfully wrote the whole thing to disk.  It knows (or should G >know) that the data connection got closed normally, rather than timing @ >out, or the IP stack declaring that it could no longer route to >the other end, or ...  1 Once in a blue moon, frame-relay hosts, switches, E routers, etc, will go bad in such as way as to corrupt data/payloads, ; while recalculating the outer envelope CRC's, in such a way ; that the corruption will go unnoticed.  (lower OSI layers)    8 the DAP scheme in DECnet provides for a checksum (CRC?) E taken across the entire (upper layer) transfer "conversation" (iirc).  (at higher OSI layer)   D I personally haven't seen this happen often (1-2x in ~4 years) but I> can recall instances, where DECnet usage had flagged such link. problems that went unnoticed by the FTP users.  > if using FTP, best to send the expected file CRC's beforehand,  perhaps via a different channel.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 10:15:00 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org0 Subject: Re: Checking for "file open for write".3 Message-ID: <B4uSa$Fp0sQO@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <388av8F5dcr3qU1@individual.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:  > John Santos wrote: >  >> Richard Maher wrote:  >>   >>> Hi Jan-Erik, >>> M >>> This solution (that I'm sure you already know about) is not as elegant as J >>> System Programming a pseudo file access. But then you're *polling* so 
 >>> whadda >>> you care? Peasant :-)  >>> K >>> You could FTP an additional "trigger" file to the destination directory M >>> after all the other files have been successfully copied and then look for I >>> filename.TRIG (or some such). Or you could have a AAAfile.START and a  >>> ZZZfile.END copied over? >>   >>  I >> I've used this method (and the rename method that someone mentioned in H >> another followup), and both work great at first, but something always0 >> seems to happen eventually to mess things up. >>  E >> Like someone on the sending side forgets why they need to send two G >> files, and starts sending the small "trigger" file 1st.  Arrggghhhh!  >>  D >> The solution, of course, is to read the docs.  "What docs?"  "TheD >> docs we sent you when we defined the interface."  "Oh, I've neverE >> seen them."  "Okay, here's another copy."  Wait 6 months.  Lather.  >> Repeat.  :-<  >>  F >> I was also convinced at one time that someone had an optimizing FTPG >> client that sent multiple files at the same time, and of course, the D >> tiny trigger file got sent much quicker than the large data file.) >> This theory was never proved, however.  >>  E >> The problem with the rename method is someone says "Must have been B >> a problem with that grotty old VMS FTP client.  Well, I've justF >> tried it and it seems to accept the file just fine with the correctF >> name, so I'll save a step in the transfer by doing the send and the  >> rename all at the same time." >>  C >> The problem with both these scenarios is no one notices until by G >> bad timing, the file gets processed before it is completely received J >> and a lot of the time the damage is subtle.  (It might be worth puttingG >> a checksum on the file or zipping it, etc. just to make this kind of F >> thing detectable.  Does UNZIP abort noisily if its input file isn'tB >> complete, or just quietly stop wherever it happens to hit EOF?) >>  I >>> Anyway, I just thought I'd mention the KISS solution in case someone  
 >>> hadn'tI >>> heard of it. I personally, would much prefer the answer that you were 8 >>> originally looking for, but with the variations for  >>> cluster/single-node and J >>> all the other complexities, I've always put it in the too-hard basket. >>   >>  H >> Someone once mentioned that some file systems (IBM mainframe O/S'es?)I >> are capable of triggering a batch job when a file is created, written, I >> and closed.  I think the resulting batch job can determine if the file I >> was closed normally (i.e. received successfully) or not (remote system H >> or program crashed in the middle or the network died and the protocol< >> timed out.)  Sort of like the old RSX file deaccess lock. >>  I >> I wonder if something like this could be hooked into the ACP's locking G >> system or RMS or possibly by defining a default ACE on the receiving G >> directory that would propagate to files created in the directory and C >> trigger an alarm on file close that could be monitored by a user  >> program?  >>   > @ > I like that idea, and RMS already provides the file attribute J > SUBMIT_ON_CLOSE. How to set that attribute on an incoming file I am not 1 > sure, but the following shows the general idea.   D If you create a spooled pseudo-device then you should be able to use; create a batch job completely from within the scope of FTP:    $ MCR LATCP 7 LCP> CREATE PORT /LOGICAL=(NAME=FTP_BATCH,TABLE=SYSTEM) 	 LCP> EXIT ' $ SET DEVICE /SPOOL=SYS$BATCH FTP_BATCH  ...  C:\> ftp vmsnode5 ftp> put mybatch.com ftp_batch:optional-file-name.com  ftp>   You may wish to add    	$ DEFINE SYS$PRINT " "   A to the body of the batch file if you wish to suppress printing of  the resulting batch log file.   A Also, make sure that the logical name associated with the spooled B device is not the same as the queue name associated with the batch< queue.  In the example above, I used SYS$BATCH and FTP_BATCH   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 10:14:46 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: HSZ70 TroubleC Message-ID: <1109614486.247545.300930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   
 Jim  M wrote: 	 > John/AJ  > F > Thanks for the help.  Using the clear_errors unit # fixed my issues. I 9 > was able to boot the box.  Now to find a valid login :)    Jim,  @    Check the VMS FAQ for information on how to get to the SYSTEMG account if you don't know the password.  It takes access to the console - and a conversational boot, but it works well.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 10:02:16 -0800" From: "Jim  M" <jckstrw@gmail.com> Subject: Re: HSZ70 TroubleC Message-ID: <1109613736.433151.173690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    John/AJ   G Thanks for the help.  Using the clear_errors unit # fixed my issues.  I 7 was able to boot the box.  Now to find a valid login :)    John Nebel wrote:  > Jim, > B > Use the clear_errors unit# lost_data command.  If the disks wereF > dismounted properly and the array were left powered on for more than the B > cache_flush_timer (default 10 seconds) thereafter, the disks are
 likely OK. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:50:02 +1100 6 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au> Subject: RE: IA64 unraveling... X Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BDFC@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C51D6A.BD5CD81A . Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   5 >From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]  =20  >Kenneth Farmer wrote:1 >> > Posted any more of JF's stories lately.  :-)  >>=20  >> Ouch!  :) > I >I'll probably have to post a legitimate press release on April 1 just to  >fool him again :-)   , Have you seen Jeff Cameron's April_fool.com?  L Sorry about the chevrons, I have now to go deviously to access mail.  And O=7 utlook or web Outlook acess is a total load of c*r*a*p.    Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged @ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 ? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************     ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C51D6A.BD5CD81A - Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>L <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> K <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0"> % <TITLE>RE: IA64 unraveling...</TITLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY>) <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->   L <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;From: JF Mezei [<A HREF=3D"mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@tek=7 savvy.com">mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com</A>]<BR>  <BR> &gt;Kenneth Farmer wrote:<BR> C &gt;&gt; &gt; Posted any more of JF's stories lately.&nbsp; :-)<BR>  &gt;&gt;<BR> &gt;&gt; Ouch!&nbsp; :)<BR>  &gt;<BR>L &gt;I'll probably have to post a legitimate press release on April 1 just t= o<BR>  &gt;fool him again :-)<BR> <BR>0 Have you seen Jeff Cameron's April_fool.com?<BR> <BR>L Sorry about the chevrons, I have now to go deviously to access mail.&nbsp; =@ And Outlook or web Outlook acess is a total load of c*r*a*p.<BR> <BR> Regards, Paddy<BR> <BR> </FONT>  </P>   <FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>  <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  <BR>G "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged<BR> B and confidential information intended only for the use of the <BR>F addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of <BR>G this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise<BR> F the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, <BR>; distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.<BR>  <BR>E If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid <BR> E immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the <BR> A individual sender except where the sender expressly and with <BR> G authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses<BR> B virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses<BR>  contained in any attachment.<BR> <BR>@ Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now<BR>( firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"<BR> <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  </FONT>  </BODY>  </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C51D6A.BD5CD81A--    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 07:54:43 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: IA64 unraveling... 3 Message-ID: <zjxpFb$FXdiw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <1109432228.4461a445ebd73a65b4c09319fb329da3@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:  > J > Ok, so Intel is working on a new chipset that will apply to IA64 in 2007, > ? What is the code name for this project ?      EV8      	       8-)    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 07:58:55 -0800) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> N Subject: Interesting error message I just got trying to access accuweather.comC Message-ID: <1109606335.721844.142510@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   = I just tried to access accuweather.com and got the following:   B -ERROR-(500):  %SYSTEM-F-REMRSRC, insufficient system resources at remote node  Requested method: GET  Requested URL:    /  HTTP protocol:    HTTP/1.1  5 Looks like someone's VMS box isn't configured well...    Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:03:59 -0500 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet>R Subject: Re: Interesting error message I just got trying to access accuweather.com0 Message-ID: <RLSdnQeCYKty3b7fRVn-gg@comcast.com>   Ken Robinson wrote: ? > I just tried to access accuweather.com and got the following:  > D > -ERROR-(500):  %SYSTEM-F-REMRSRC, insufficient system resources at
 > remote node  > Requested method: GET  > Requested URL:    /  > HTTP protocol:    HTTP/1.1 > 7 > Looks like someone's VMS box isn't configured well...  >  > Ken Robinson >   G Might be just temporary; I have no problem accessing the site at 11:05   EST...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:30:54 +0000 % From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  Subject: Re: Logfile name 8 Message-ID: <n10621l2e913ego3o6j6adk02uea4ml0be@4ax.com>   Hi,    Thanks to all who responded.    E The job is always submtted with a /LOG qualifier and the file type is B always specified, there is no way for a user to circumvent this.     Cheers 	Dave.      C On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:27:43 +0000, David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  wrote:  	 >Hi all,   > E >From within a batch job how do I find out what the value of the /LOG  >qualifier was at submit time?   >  >e.g.  > > >$ submit/log=gen_logs:a_log_file_with_a_long_name.log	 X.COM  > C >When X.COM is running I want to put the value specifed on the /LOG  >into a symbol.  >  >$ show symbol LogFile  < >     LogFile = "gen_logs:a_log_file_with_a_long_name.log"   > E >I was fairly sure I could do this with a lexical function but cannot  >find/remember which one.  >  >Cheers 	 >	Dave.      ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 10:18:01 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Logfile name 3 Message-ID: <ibJl2HBXQMiM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <ej9u11lup726bgah3nipv153onhs4kfn4q@4ax.com>, David Gray <police@spamcop.net> writes:
 > Hi all,  > F > From within a batch job how do I find out what the value of the /LOG  > qualifier was at submit time?    An oldie, but a goodie...   @ ; PPF translate specified PPF logical name to file specification< ; This is based on code posted on comp.os.vms by John Briggs? ; on 19 Nov 1996, message-id <1996Nov19.110550@alpha.vitro.com> < ; Modified by Jon Pinkley to accept a logical name so we can3 ; get the actual file name of a file opened by DCL. : ; This also sets three local symbols, instead of only one. ; : ; First delete local symbols PHY_FILE_NAME, ORG_FILE_NAME,: ; and FID_FILE_NAME.   These will be recreated when we can ; successfully determine them. ;  ; PHY_FILE_NAME 9 ;   This is the unconcealed name of the file at the time  5 ;   it was opened.  If it has been renamed, this will  ;   not be correct.  ; $ ;   PHY_FILE_NAME is set as follows:: ;   If it's a PPF, then do a $DISPLAY with nop=<noconceal>' ;     and save the resulting file name. 9 ;     If it is a record oriented device, (you can't trust 8 ;     fab$l_dev for this, you must ask $getdvi), instead5 ;     of using the rsa returned by $display, use the   ;     nam$t_dvi value.3 ;     (this is the name it had when it was opened.) 5 ;     if the device is a terminal, then save only the 6 ;     device name.  Set FILE_NAME to the saved string.; ;   If it's not a PPF, exit with warning status CLI$_UNDFIL 2 ;   This is after all, meant to be used with PPF's ;  ; ORG_FILE_NAME 7 ;   This is the concealed name of the file at the time  5 ;   it was opened.  If it has been renamed, this will  ;   not be correct.  ; $ ;   ORG_FILE_NAME is set as follows:% ;   If it's a record oriented device  $ ;     set ORG_FILE_NAME to nam$l_dev ;   otherwise 0 ;     do another $DISPLAY, this time displaying ! ;     the concealed name, and setr/ ;     ORG_FILE_NAME to the concealed file name.n ;e" ; FID_FILE_NAME is set as follows: ;   If nam$l_fid is non zero? ;     determine the current file name by using lib$fid_to_name. < ;     Set FID_FILE_NAME to this value.  Note that this file C ;     name will be correct if the file was renamed using the RENAME"9 ;     command (but not necessarily if the FID is entered l ;     multiple times). ;.  ; Usage: $ ppf :== $some_dir:ppf ;        $ ppf [logical_name]t ;.? ;        if no logical is specified, then sys$output is assumedc1 ;        i.e. the following three are equivalent:  ;        $ ppf sys$output0 ;        $ ppf: ;	 $ run some_dir:ppf ! foreign command not necessary here ;s> ;        The reason the this is the default is that it is very? ;        useful to allow a batch process to determine the exact . ;        filename and version of its log file. ; > ;        PPF can also be used to determine the version of file) ;        opened by DCL.  Example follows:5, ;        $ open/read foo sys$login:login.com ;	 $ ppf foo( ;        $ show symbol/local *_file_name@ ;          FID_FILE_NAME = "DISK$USER1:[USERS.JON]LOGIN.COM;181": ;          ORG_FILE_NAME = "ROOT$USERS:[JON]LOGIN.COM;181"A ;          PHY_FILE_NAME = "$4$DKA200:[USERS.][JON]LOGIN.COM;181"4 ;        $ close/nolog foo ;i3 ;  example where file gets renamed while it is open  ;i" ;        $ open/write foo test.dat ;        $ ppf foo# ;        $ sho sym /loc *_file_nameo> ;          FID_FILE_NAME = "DISK$JSCRATCH:[JON.PPF]TEST.DAT;1"> ;          ORG_FILE_NAME = "DISK$JSCRATCH:[JON.PPF]TEST.DAT;1": ;          PHY_FILE_NAME = "$4$DKC204:[JON.PPF]TEST.DAT;1"& ;        $ ren test.dat; jons.data;100 ;        $ ppf foo# ;        $ sho sym /loc *_file_name A ;          FID_FILE_NAME = "DISK$JSCRATCH:[JON.PPF]JONS.DATA;100" > ;          ORG_FILE_NAME = "DISK$JSCRATCH:[JON.PPF]TEST.DAT;1": ;          PHY_FILE_NAME = "$4$DKC204:[JON.PPF]TEST.DAT;1" ;        $ close/nolog foo   	.psect	data,quad,noexe  	$LNMDEF 	$FABDEF 	$NAMDEF 	$DEVDEF 	$DVIDEF 	$CLIMSGDEF   ( 	.macro	errchk, ?skip		; check for error& 	blbs	r0, skip		; on success skip this# 	pushl	r0			; push offending statuse, 	calls	#1, g^lib$stop		; and kill this thing) skip:	.endm	errchk			; and that's errchk!t   fab:	$FAB	nam=namr nam:	$NAM	rsa=buffer,- 		rss=buffer_size,-S 		nop=<noconceal>d  	 itemlist:D 	.word	buffer_size 	.word	lnm$_string 	.address	buffer 	.address	file_name_desc 	.long	0   	.align quad buffer:	.blkb	255- buffer_size=.-buffer 	.align quad buffer1:	.blkb	255 buffer1_size=.-buffer1 	.align quad buffer2:	.blkb	16g buffer2_size=.-buffer2 	.align quad recdev:	.blkl	1c dvirec:	.long	DVI$_REC return_length: 	.blkw	1   sysout: .ascid  /SYS$OUTPUT/ tabnam:	.ascid	/LNM$FILE_DEV/cF phynam:	.ascid	/PHY_FILE_NAME/		; name file was originally opened with> orgnam: .ascid	/ORG_FILE_NAME/		; same as file_name, concealedD fidnam:	.ascid	/FID_FILE_NAME/		; name determined by lib$fid_to_name0 input:	.long	lnm$c_namlength		; make a descr for  	.address 2$			; lib$get_foreign. 2$:	.blkb	lnm$c_namlength		; the buffer itself   file_name_desc:t 	.blkw	1 	.word	0 	.address buffer   fid_name_desc: 	.blkw	1 	.word	0 	.address buffer1    dvi_name_desc: 	.blkw	1 	.word	0 	.address buffer2s   	.psect	code,exe 	.entry	MAIN,^m<>- 	; Get logical file name of PPF07 	pushal	input			; set the length to the length returnedo 	pushl	#0			; noprompt+ 	pushal	input			; write the rec'd data heres, 	calls	#3, g^lib$get_foreign	; get a command 	errchk				; check for error  . 	cmpw	input, #0		; no input logical specified? 	bneq	5$7 	movc3	sysout,@sysout+4,@input+4 ; input = "SYS$OUTPUT"r 	movw	sysout,input 5$: 9 	; Delete the symbols we are going to set (ignore errors)h" 	pushaq	fidnam			; "FID_FILE_NAME" 	calls	#1,g^lib$delete_symbol " 	pushaq	orgnam			; "ORG_FILE_NAME" 	calls	#1,g^lib$delete_symbole" 	pushaq	phynam			; "PHY_FILE_NAME" 	calls	#1,g^lib$delete_symbols  3 	; Translate specified logical name in LNM$FILE_DEV  	pushal	itemlist	 	pushl	#0 
 	pushaq	inputs 	pushaq	tabnam	 	pushl	#0h 	calls	#5,g^sys$trnlnm 	blbs	r0,10$ 	brw	99$			; error? bail   	; Is it a PPF logical name?( 10$:	cmpw	buffer,#^X001b		; Escape, null	 	beql	11$ " 	brw	101$			; it's not a PPF, quit 11$:$ 	; Use $DISPLAY to get PPF file name 	movw	buffer+2,fab+fab$w_ifi# 	bisw2	#fab$m_ppf_ind,fab+fab$w_ifiS2 	$display	fab=fab		; first with non-concealed name 	errchk				; check for error  2 	; Determine if device is a record oriented deviceF 	; Note that network devices like node"user pass"::sys$login:login.com@ 	; will have nam$t_dvi set to a null string.  In this case, just> 	; treat it like a non-record oriented device.  We will handle% 	; the lack of a FID at a later time..  3 	; copy the nam$t_dvi name into the dvi_name stringi 	w# 	movzbw	nam+nam$t_dvi,dvi_name_desc 	 	bneq	12$ ) 	brw	20$			; must be a decnet device nameS 12$:5 	movc3	dvi_name_desc,nam+nam$t_dvi+1,@dvi_name_desc+4i 	 5 	pushal	recdev			; boolean for record oriented device $ 	pushaq	dvi_name_desc		; device name# 	pushl	#0			; channel not specifiedh. 	pushal	dvirec			; address containing DVI$_REC 	calls	#4,g^lib$getdvi 	errchk   * 	tstl	recdev			; if record oriented device% 	beql	20$			; then skip the followings  8 	; here we have a record oriented device.  Directory and/ 	; file names really don't make a lot of sense.c% 	; set PHY_FILE_NAME to nam$t_dvi ande! 	;     ORG_FILE_NAME to nam$l_devr  	; leave FID_FILE_NAME undefined   	pushaq	dvi_name_desc  	pushaq	phynam 	calls	#2,g^lib$set_symbol 	errchk   4 	; copy the nam$l_dev name into the file_name string$ 	movzbw	nam+nam$b_dev,file_name_desc6 	movc3	file_name_desc,@nam+nam$l_dev,@file_name_desc+4   	pushaq	file_name_desc 	pushaq	orgnam 	calls	#2,g^lib$set_symbol 	errchk*  	 	brw	99$	i  ) 	; Stuff file name length into descriptor ( 20$:	movzbw	nam+nam$b_rsl,file_name_desc  0 	; The file name is all set up in file_name_desc/ 	; Stuff it into the DCL symbol 'PHY_FILE_NAME'* 30$:	pushaq	file_name_desc 	pushaq	phynam 	calls	#2,g^lib$set_symbol 	errchke  . 	; Use $DISPLAY to get PPF file name concealed( 	bicb2	#<nam$m_noconceal>, nam+nam$b_nop 	$display	fab=fabe 	blbs	r0,40$ 	ret				; If it fails, exitO  ) 	; Stuff file name length into descriptor ( 40$:	movzbw	nam+nam$b_rsl,file_name_desc  0 	; The file name is all set up in file_name_desc/ 	; Stuff it into the DCL symbol 'ORG_FILE_NAME'  	pushaq	file_name_desc 	pushaq	orgnam 	calls	#2,g^lib$set_symbol 	errchke  2 	; Now grab the FID from the NAM block and convert/ 	; it to a filename using LIB$FID_TO_NAME, thenS/ 	; stuff it into the DCL symbol 'FID_FILE_NAME'h 	a1 	; we're going to use buffer1, set the length in d  	; the descriptor to buffer_size6 	movab	buffer1,fid_name_desc+4		; make sure we have it$ 	movzbw	#buffer1_size, fid_name_desc/ 	; we are going to reuse the descriptor for thec 	; nam$t_dvi counted stringp% 	movzbw	nam+nam$t_dvi, file_name_descl 	beql	99$				; no FID, bail outo) 	movab	nam+nam$t_dvi+1, file_name_desc+4	e   	pushaw	return_lengtht 	pushaq	fid_name_descm 	pushaw	nam+nam$w_fidm 	pushaq	file_name_desc 	calls	#4,g^lib$fid_to_namey 	errchkm  ) 	; Stuff file name length into descriptorl' 60$:	movzbw	return_length,fid_name_descg  0 	; The file name is all set up in file_name_desc/ 	; Stuff it into the DCL symbol 'FID_FILE_NAME'p 70$:	pushaq	fid_name_descs 	pushaq	fidnam 	calls	#2,g^lib$set_symbol 99$:	ret 101$:	movl	#CLI$_UNDFIL,r0 	brb	99$  
 	.end	main   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 09:24:22 -0800$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org>& Subject: Re: Mfg Date of an Alpha 2100B Message-ID: <1109611462.165505.21960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   I've done this a few times...S  C First, get the actual part number for your system - the maintenancepG contract probably has it on there.  Then get the serial number.  Now gonF to the warranty lookup page - The system is not under warranty, but HPD is nice enough to tell you when the system first went into warranty,C and viola, there's your key date.  It's also nice and definitive souE management can't give you any flack on how you came up with it.  It'sfA not generic to the product line - it's specific to *your* system.o  { http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/WarrantySingleLookup.jsp?locale=en_US&prodSeriesId=327002&prodTypeId=12169   @ I've used this for all of our servers and it's been a lifesaver.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 04:16:18 -0800( From: tbilopavlovic@hotmail.com (Triger)$ Subject: Re: no device wsa0: ?  help= Message-ID: <8858c57d.0502280416.1ecb69f3@posting.google.com>    here is situation:  ' 1. sh log decw* gives me three entries: :        "DECW$SECURITY" = "SYS$SHARE:DECW$SECURITY_VMS.EXE""        "DECW$USEXLIBXPG4" = "TRUE"'        "DECW$SYSCOMMON" = "SYS$SYSROOT"   0 2.  Yes, I have file sys$manager:dec$startup.com  H 3   In file SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM line "DEFINE DECW$IGNORE_DECWINDOWS TRUE" B       I tried both cases: commented and uncommented  ...same thing  1 4. In SYSGEN : SHOW WINDOW_SYSTEM gives current 0l   5. PRODUCT SHOW PR  gives me:o<    DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-6           Full LP     Installed     A     but when I try: $ product reconfigure dwmotif /version=v1.2-6      gives me: ?     %PCSIUI-I-NOMATCH, no products were found matching: DWMOTIF>O     %PCSIUI-E-NOPROD, no products were found on which to perform this operationtQ     %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error conditiont    J 6. In INSTALL utility when type LIST command I saw only two DECW* entries:   	 DECW$ICBM;1      eA          DECW$SECURITY_VMS;1    Open Hdr SharAddr     Prot Lnkbl 4  4 ... thats situation, and I am quite confused with it   any help is higly appreciatedS Thanks   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:16:26 GMTa! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>C$ Subject: Re: no device wsa0: ?  help8 Message-ID: <i38621ha00rqkqvbe3embfi65muckbb6d0@4ax.com>  H On 28 Feb 2005 04:16:18 -0800, tbilopavlovic@hotmail.com (Triger) wrote:  2 >4. In SYSGEN : SHOW WINDOW_SYSTEM gives current 0  I This needs to be set to 1 for a system without graphics hardware to startd4 DECwindows automatically. It is a dynamic parameter.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:57:42 GMTp* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>$ Subject: Re: no device wsa0: ?  help0 Message-ID: <GjGUd.688$na3.672@news.cpqcorp.net>  ? DECwindows startup will force the window system parameter to 1.   * Log into the console, and do @DECW$STARTUP  A and see what errors you get.  Does this DS10 have graphics on it?a  . "Nigel Barker" <nigel@hp.com> wrote in message2 news:i38621ha00rqkqvbe3embfi65muckbb6d0@4ax.com...J > On 28 Feb 2005 04:16:18 -0800, tbilopavlovic@hotmail.com (Triger) wrote: >h4 > >4. In SYSGEN : SHOW WINDOW_SYSTEM gives current 0 >rK > This needs to be set to 1 for a system without graphics hardware to startc6 > DECwindows automatically. It is a dynamic parameter. >s > -- > Nigel Barker! > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:10:13 GMT?! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> $ Subject: Re: no device wsa0: ?  help8 Message-ID: <6le6219kqc6jjsi28f9oujqj1o650s532g@4ax.com>  M On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:57:42 GMT, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote:r   >-@ >DECwindows startup will force the window system parameter to 1.  J Only with graphics hardware present. I learned this the hard way years agoH trying to figure out how to stop DECwindows starting & discovering to my4 surprise that even if you set it to 0 it gets reset.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:54:48 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>1+ Subject: Open letter to VMS Marketing (sic) , Message-ID: <lKydnW071Nknrb7fRVn-tQ@igs.net>  F The following excerpt from a message from Bob Blatz, OpenVMS Marketing> Director, was posted in c.o.v. on May 21, 2004 @ 11:19am .....    L "I believe you'll be pleased to know that we have listened to your input (asL well as input from other customers) regarding the need to advertise OpenVMS.H Effective this month (May) a solutions focused ad campaign was launched.G This advertising campaign includes the four operating systems (OpenVMS,eJ HP-UX, Microsoft Windows and Linux) that run on our Intel Itanium(R) based Integrity servers."y    G Bob, could you please post a copy of the ad insertion schedule for each L instance in each publication where VMS was so advertised since last May? I'dF like to keep track.   .pdf's or .tif files of each of the ads would beH appreciated of each ad so published. I'm sure this sort of infomation is readily available.  H Could you also let us know the upcoming schedule of VMS advertising thatL surely must be in the works now that VMS is officially available on the much vaunted IA64 processor?.     signed,c A curious VMS Communitye     --J OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style.....they just are never heard	 of again.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 08:24:06 GMTS! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>eA Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointsc8 Message-ID: <pfj521ddt2ohcc3rru3lvjot8k0e5gpj3p@4ax.com>  F On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 23:27:06 GMT, rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) wrote:   H >There has been some fairly minor cross-pollination of server componentsG >since the merger.  This was usually undertaken when there were obvioussE >cost savings or supply chain simplifications to exploit.  Even minor1G >modifications cost man-months to design, qualify, and implement.  SuchnH >changes would not be made for a $1 component; for a $1000 subsystem, it >might be worth looking into.b  5 For example GS1280s now use Superdome power supplies..   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:02:10 -0500B) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>vA Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points 9 Message-ID: <bADUd.8385$Vf6.324391@news20.bellglobal.com>g  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message e< news:1109521554.db28e6f1f7b4ac0eeada9fc8536d6bcb@teranews... [...snip...] >eH > There are HUGE and vast differences between the EU and NAFTA. NAFTA isE > really just import duties and some added things to ease movement ofwJ > people (although since sept 2001, those are basically back to worse than > they were before NAFTA). >.  F I couldn't agree more. The EU (a.k.a. EEC) was only compared to NAFTA M because of an over simplification by the brain-dead news-tainment people who 8M then pressured brain-dead politicians into a me-too knee-jerk reaction. As I RJ said previously, portable pensions, common currency, most people learning L English as a second language, 4 day work weeks (in some countries), etc. is F making the EU the equivalent of the "United States of Europe" from an M economic point of view. The biggest industrial juggernaut on the planet (G1) iK is the USA with a population of ~330 Million. Currently the EU is no where uK near as powerful as the USA but they've got  a combined population of ~390 eM Million and they learn quickly. (let's not forget that the CD-ROM technology eC was invented in Holland; they only brought in the Japanese to help -J manufacture it; CDs became the precursor to DVDs; almost every CD and DVD 7 drive seems to contain a German-made solid-state laser)k  M Now I say all this because I'm glad that OpenVMS Engineering goes over there gM with their travelling road show. This is a huge untapped market and you need i0 computers to manage all that social engineering.   >kH > The EU has a huge sense of community to it, and they now have their EUI > parliament with specific jurisdictions and its own EU parliament. It ispH > far more than just import duties that are lifted. And it is also aboutJ > equalising standard of living and economies within the EU. For instance,D > Spain and Ireland greatly benefitted from EU membership because ofJ > massive EU infrastructure investments in those countries, subsidized by  > France/Germany.t >i  I I think everyone would agree that Germany will be taking the biggest hit 3' while every other country will benefit.:    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,g Ontario, Canada.9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html 0   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:03:10 +0000 (UTC)e From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukA Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointsr) Message-ID: <cvv4qe$d85$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>e  e In article <Cu%Td.33934$uO.935907@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:e >n5 >"Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message.+ >news:111vrg1aiknd7d9@corp.supernews.com...c
 >[...snip...]l >>J >The last day for ordering an Alpha system from HP will be 2006-09-30 withG >last ship day to be 2006-12-31. They admitted that Alpha systems stilleL >slightly out-perform Itanium systems put that will change before the summerM >of 2005. (sounds to me like the complier people still needed to do some more 
 >tweaking)  J Given that VMS has only just been released on IA64 that last ship date for3 Alpha seems a remarkably short time in the future. t   >u >rH >One interesting fact was a new method of selling Alpha's and OpenVMS byK >stealth; HP has teamed up with an email vendor to sell DS10s (and higher?)sJ >with pre-installed email hosting software targeted at the SMB market. TheJ >Alpha becomes the email host for small companies; scans email for virusesM >and worms, etc.; the OS and email s/w is totally configurable by browser; no H >client s/w is required since employees must use a browser to read their= >emails. Apparently these systems are selling like hot cakes.F >Q  O Is this using Sophos for virus scanning or is there another anti-virus solutiont which will run on VMS ? M It looks like Sophos have decided against retiring Sophos on VMS since it hasEK disappeared from their list see http://www.sophos.com/support/timeline.htmls  A However does anyone know if they will be supporting VMS on IA64 ?o    B Is the email vendor Process with PMDF or is this another product ?E Do the boxes also come with an anti-spam product like Process' PMAS ?     
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University      
 >* * * * * >eM >Well that's all I can recall for now. I'll let you know when the presenter's.' >slides will be available for download.d >i >e >Neil Rieck  >Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, >Ontario, Canada.r9 >http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.htmla >  >s >s >  >p >e >t >l   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 05:46:37 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointsgC Message-ID: <1109598397.653890.324030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   F since when was vms on the retirement list?  We use it and they told us that it will be supported ...,   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 05:54:46 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points C Message-ID: <1109598886.583214.304870@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   A we have been giving it a spin for 2 years now ... works terrific!w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:16:05 +0100s0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointssB Message-ID: <422327a6$0$24935$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   Kenneth Farmer wrote:f7 > "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message i5 > news:Cu%Td.33934$uO.935907@news20.bellglobal.com...  > 6 >>"Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message, >>news:111vrg1aiknd7d9@corp.supernews.com... >>[...snip...] >> >  > [snip] >  > I >>One interesting fact was a new method of selling Alpha's and OpenVMS byuL >>stealth; HP has teamed up with an email vendor to sell DS10s (and higher?)K >>with pre-installed email hosting software targeted at the SMB market. ThehK >>Alpha becomes the email host for small companies; scans email for virusesaL >>and worms, etc.; the OS and email s/w is totally configurable by browser;  >>noI >>client s/w is required since employees must use a browser to read their > >>emails. Apparently these systems are selling like hot cakes. >  >  > [snip] >  >  >>Neil Rieck >  >  > M > CommuniGate Pro?  I'm shocked I haven't heard of this effort.  I know they aJ > were talking about it but I haven't seen ANY press releases or anything 9 > related.  I emailed Ali at Stalker to ask if it's them.f > K > I said this before, I use CommuniGate Pro and I can't speak of it highly sC > enough.  I've used many different email server packages included  5 > roll-your-own open source stuff.  Nothing compares.  >  >   A In the TUD Seminars in Europe last fall two turnkey Email server  C solutions were being presented for OpenVMS. I do hope that I'm not tH pre-releasing this information, but my CD from the TUD clearly shows in G the document title "Public - ETUD Secure Server.PDF" that it should be o public.y  H The entry-level small business solution as I understand it, is based on  Quintera and Yorba. * http://www.networkunity.com/qoverview.html+ http://www.networkunity.com/customsoft.html * http://www.networkunity.com/yoverview.html+ http://www.networkunity.com/newsevents.htmls  E The enterprise level solution is based on CommuniGate Pro as already   suspected here.   , http://www.stalker.com/content/solutions.htm9 http://www.stalker.com/content/news_article_01252005.html    Cheers!    Keith Cayembergo   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 06:34:37 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.comFA Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointssC Message-ID: <1109601277.429093.216270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>r  D Just called stalker communigate pro company ... story is communigate pro w/web accessE imap pop smtp server currently runs on vms ... so if you use web mailS client only, you areA fine ... if you need antivirus for pc clients, they are currently0 talking w/sophos to enableD it to run w/communigate pro as a vms plug in ... spam filter plug in for vms is not readyG yet either, so if it is a web access via thin client solution you want,  then this would workD fine, virus scan is in the works, and spam filter is being discussed ... Process has all ofF that, but doesn't offer its web access to run on a vms web server, but supposedly that willF happen sometime ... so it looks like there are two viable solutions to create a virus proof mail server with vms ... :)t   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:53:06 +0000 (UTC)- From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukA Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points1) Message-ID: <cvvep1$gcr$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>o  _ In article <1109598397.653890.324030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:tG >since when was vms on the retirement list?  We use it and they told us  >that it will be supported ... >_N In the Sophos anti-Virus retirement table Sophos listed development ending forL Sophos AV on VMS on 31 Dec 2005 and  "To be decided" as the retirement date.  ? This was discussed on the vmsnet.mail.pmdf list on 5th May 2004-   seea  I http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vmsnet.mail.pmdf/msg/5b4d83be87972a2aa    M When questioned Sophos stated that the product would continue to be supported1O ie bug fixes produced, new IDEs since no retirement date had been decided upon.s, However no new developments were to be done.   This was OK but worrying.y  I It now appears VMS has been removed from the retirement table completely.a  M Unfortunately the only information I have seen about a port of Sophos to IA64rJ is third hand via a post from Jeremy Begg who had been told by one of the 7 VMS engineers that such a port was going to take place.e   seea  I http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vmsnet.mail.pmdf/msg/1fb40aac6f893a4fA      
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:56:38 +0000 (UTC)p From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukA Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few points ) Message-ID: <cvvevm$gcr$2@news.mdx.ac.uk>m  _ In article <1109598886.583214.304870@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:rB >we have been giving it a spin for 2 years now ... works terrific! >e   Bob,  F Why are you cutting out the whole of the message you are replying to ?K It makes it extremely difficult to know what you have been spinning for twon years.  
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:24:42 -0500m# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>sA Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointst, Message-ID: <SeGdnSeSXqpQ2L7fRVn-tg@igs.net>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:uE > In article <1109598397.653890.324030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,l > bob@instantwhip.com writes: F >> since when was vms on the retirement list?  We use it and they told# >> us that it will be supported ...* >>E > In the Sophos anti-Virus retirement table Sophos listed development  > ending for= > Sophos AV on VMS on 31 Dec 2005 and  "To be decided" as theq > retirement date. >OA > This was discussed on the vmsnet.mail.pmdf list on 5th May 2004T >T > seeV >"K > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vmsnet.mail.pmdf/msg/5b4d83be87972a2a" >e >oE > When questioned Sophos stated that the product would continue to be  > supported<C > ie bug fixes produced, new IDEs since no retirement date had been  > decided upon.=. > However no new developments were to be done. >p > This was OK but worrying.: >e? > It now appears VMS has been removed from the retirement tablee
 > completely.; >tG > Unfortunately the only information I have seen about a port of Sophosg	 > to IA64!G > is third hand via a post from Jeremy Begg who had been told by one ofs > thes9 > VMS engineers that such a port was going to take place.B >  > seeu >eK > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vmsnet.mail.pmdf/msg/1fb40aac6f893a4fn    	 Also see:s   http://tinyurl.com/65qex   or the full-length originals  L http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/78253dcL 50135f27a/06851aa19458a188?q=sophos+group:comp.os.vms&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fas_qL %3Dsophos%26num%3D100%26scoring%3Dr%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8%26as_epq%3D%26as_L oq%3D%26as_eq%3D%26as_ugroup%3Dcomp.os.vms%26as_usubject%3D%26as_uauthors%3DL %26lr%3D%26as_drrb%3Dq%26as_qdr%3D%26as_mind%3D1%26as_minm%3D1%26as_miny%3D2L 004%26as_maxd%3D28%26as_maxm%3D2%26as_maxy%3D2005%26safe%3Doff%26&_doneTitle# =Back+to+Search&&d#06851aa19458a188r     --K OpenVMS - The classics never go out of style..... there's just no 3rd partya software left to run on it   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:18:31 -0500m1 From: JF Mezei <"jfmezei.spamnot"@teksavvy.com\\>hA Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointslB Message-ID: <1109610372.0272d815ee7576fb5413598ac289afc9@teranews>   Robert Deininger wrote:u* > 1. VMS sales have been growing modestly.# > 2. Tru64 sales have been falling.a6 > 3. Alphaserver sales have been falling, not growing.  F If VMS sales are growing during a period where VMS is not shipping forE IA64, it means that demand for Alpha is also growing, in terms of the* VMS marketplace.  D And now that VMS is shipping for that IA64 thing, I bet HP will moreD than ever hide any real hard statistic on IA64 server sales vs AlphaH sales and will especially not want to reveal any information that would,F like for Pa-Risc, reveal that the old platform is still outselling the IA64 thing.<  : > I'm talking about the actual design as it exists today.   F You are finding excuses where there are none. It isn't as if this wereD Digital that built only Alphas, where a single change in the cabinetE would require all the stuff you described, and changing the colour of-D the plastic would require 10 years of R&D and millions of dollars inC colour pigmentation research and how it interacts with the plastic.o  G HP has it now. HP already has cheaper enclosures that have already been1; tested, developped, painted with colour chosen etc etc etc.a  G HP already has power supplies that are known to work, have alreayd beenf4 tested, purchased, negotiated lower prices etc etc.   C And we're not talking about proprietary Q-BUS or Unibus here, we'rei1 talking about standard SCSI, IDE and PCI, right ?e             > The enclosure was-L > designed several years ago.  It isn't going to change now.  So the cost is > pretty much fixed. t  F Fine, lets accept this for a minute. If you initially priced the unitsG with an expected lifetime of 2 years and 10,000 shipments, you'd spread - the costs of the R&D over those 10,000 units.w  B Now, extend the life of the unit by say another 5,000 units over 3D years, and since your R&R has already been paid by tyhe first 10,000G units, you can afford to lower the price of the units quite a bit, eveno@ though the actual manufacturing may still be more expensive than building wintel.    D Now, add to this the fact that you are no longer spending any R&D onD Alpha and all you need is simple fabbing by a 3rd party. That is theF chip equivalent of going to some shops to have t-shirts imprinted with your own pre-designed logo.     G > told the black LK463 keyboard uses different molds than the off-white I > predecessor, just because the color change makes the plastic different.a  F Was this on April 1 by any chance ? It is more likely that they used aH different mold not because of colour change, but because of a new designD of keyboard. It isn't as if HP only does keyboard for Alpha systems,F they have tons of experience and existing designs for keyboards. ThereH is no need to spend tons of money to re-invent the wheel when you ahev a wheel next door available.  I > And then the paint that's silk-screened onto the key caps had to changes > also.  Just a simple example.l  E Agian, both HP and Compaq had plenty of experience with this and thisIG shoudl be a no brainer, unless Digital portion chose to design keyboardo5 with fancy materials never used before for keyboards.-    L > Ah, maybe I misunderstood the question.  Well, for alpha vs. itanium, sameI > quantity of CPUs ordered, there's a big difference in price.  There's a G > single vendor for each chip, so HP can't take the business elsewhere.p  ? Wrong. HP can and has had Alphas FABbed from different sources,oH including Intel and IBM and could probably go to Samsung as well. HP can@ only buy the IA64 chips from Intel (both the design and FABbing)  G > That's the reality today; once Digital got out of the CPU fabricatingoF > business, this sort of lock-in for Alpha CPUs was pretty inevitable.  B Wrong. CPUs consist of both the design of the logo, and the simple' process of putting the logo on tshirts.   C It is the design that is the most important part. Once you have thefP design done, you can go to any plane that will silkscreen it onto your t-shirts.  H And this same applies to Pa-Risc. HP is still working on a Pa-Risc desgn< and whill have it FABbed by whoever it wants. Same with Sun.  G > Different design decisions for the bricks led to different costs, andh@ > after the inevitable markup, different prices for customers.    C Yep, like the 155meg RD54s selling for CAD $9000 at a time when you 0 could get a gig drive for a few hundred dollars.  H Your mentality is what killed Digital. When products are no longer stateG of the art, you can still sell them if you lower the price. Had Digital,G lowered the price of existing VAXes, it could have competed against SuntK and Apollo (now HP) because the cost per MIOPS would have been competitive.   B But like the RD54, Digital kept its prices high at a time when the" market proces had dropped so much.  D With an agin DS15 product, HP could lower the margins and still sellE them. It is far better to keep your VMS customer and perhaps grow thet$ VMS customer base than to lose them.  E You are better off with a customer who continues to buy Alphas than a:C customer who decides to migrate to IBM or SUn or Dell and dump VMS.n  C The alst Alpha sale will essenmtially be a big nail in VMS' coffin,nG unless HP can stop the tide of bad news about IA64 between now and nextlH year, and that airn't going to happen because those bad news are part ofA a strategy/trend started last year when Intel was forced to startt producing 64 bit 8086s.I  K > If you could take the disk drive bay from (for example) an rx2600 and use L > it in (for example) a DS15, there would be some money-saving options.  But( > of course they aren't interchangable,    Excuse me ????  C The DSxx machines were built well after Digital had decided to stoplD forcing customers to buy proprietary Digital drives. I really cannotA understand why one couldn't put industry standard drives in them.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 09:39:11 -0800 From: icerq4a@spray.seA Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointsaC Message-ID: <1109612351.206803.231580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Robert Deininger wrote:u= > > The solution to too-expensive AlphaServers running VMS isE less-expensiveA > > Itanium servers running VMS.  I don't know anyone who has any 	 realisticyC > > ideas to reduce the cost of AlphaServers today.  It's too late.. >]G > You really don't understand. Customers are not interested in spending"E > money for a long and tedious porting exercise, especially when they  haveG > software that is no longer developped and hence won't be available one IA64.  > B > A customer running ALL-In-1 can't migrate to IA64, so he is then likely: > to be forced to migrate to a non-HP product alltogether. >FE > Do you prefer to stop selling Alphas because of some dogma and loseAA > customers as a result, or do you prefer to bite your tongue and  continueE > to sell Alphas, even if it makes IA64 look bad, simply because thsi  isB > what will help keep customers and hence continue to generate the	 profits ?  > E > Profits don't come from hardware, they come from services. Lose theY% > hardware and you lose the services.A  D You didn't understand what he said, he answered why AlphaServers hadE fixed costs, whether HP should continue sell AlphaServers beyond 2006  is a different matter.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 12:04:54 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)	A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointsA3 Message-ID: <2ZvvVy7qkCsq@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  _ In article <1109598397.653890.324030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:c  H > since when was vms on the retirement list?  We use it and they told us > that it will be supported ...r  4    It's not and you can ignore all the FUD about it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:25:29 -0500 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>A Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointsf, Message-ID: <38h60rF5meqf8U1@individual.net>   Neil Rieck wrote:a > Folks, >mH > Yesterday (2005-02-24) I attended the OpenVMS "Technical Outlook 2005"F > seminar in Toronto. The slides should be posted at the following URL0 > sometime soon: http://www.encompasscanada.com/ >...  G Yes, it was a great seminar from the point of view of a attendee and asiG a sponsor. But I am disappointed that nobody posted in this long thread.D about the quality of the information package that SRI/WCS handed outD about CHARON-VAX. My wife would have been very happy to hear someone comment positively on it :)   F Once the session slides are posted everyone should make sure they lookD at Kevin FitzPatrick's slides. They will not be half as good withoutE Kevin's routine (at the lunch I mentioned to someone that just seeingsA Sue's presentation was worth the cost of the seminar, but Kevin's D presentation later in the day was equally great) but he had the partG number where people can order the DS10/VMS/Quintara package. I wrote itr9 down in my notes but I never could read anything I wrote.p  C Anne and the rest of the people at Encompass Canada did a great jobTD getting this thing going. Thanks to all of them for their hard work.   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.c Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX0 www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:29:39 +0000 (UTC)b From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukA Subject: Re: OpenVMS Seminar in Toronto (2005-02-24) a few pointsf) Message-ID: <cvvnuj$iq4$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>a  q In article <2ZvvVy7qkCsq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:i` >In article <1109598397.653890.324030@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: >mI >> since when was vms on the retirement list?  We use it and they told ust  >> that it will be supported ... >.5 >   It's not and you can ignore all the FUD about it.. >   K Unfortunately Bob had cut all the text of the message he was responding to.,N I think he was responding to my post in this thread in which I mentioned that G Sophos for VMS was no longer in the Sophos anti-Virus retirement table.	N It had been listed in this table since at least May last year which generated K FUD last year (even then there was just a date for end of development not a$N date for end of support/retirement - which was worrying but not catastrophic).  
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:17:54 +0000 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.4 Message-ID: <cvur4i$se4$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   Dave Weatherall wrote:5 > On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 03:03:41 UTC, David J Dachtera e$ > <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote: >>Bob Koehler wrote:c >>>In article <421E99A1.9ED7F273@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:	H >>>>You just corrupted your file. The cursor line is now one byte longerG >>>>than the line above it. TPU/EVE has space-padded the line up to the J >>>>cursor position before you added a space, and then added the space you >>>>just typed._ >>>*E >>>   You just edited your file, telling TPU to put a space where thel3 >>>   cursor is.  That's hardly the editor's fault.n >>G >>Well, actually, yes it is. See, the editor failed to first reposition0H >>the cursor to the end of the line, which (IMO) it should have done. ItI >>then added data I did not intend before adding the data I *DID* intend.  >>5 >>I believe that is *THE* definition of "corruption".O >> >>I >>>   Yes, I know oher editors can and do use the space bar as a movement @ >>>   command.  Tradiationaly DEC's editors didn't and TPU is no >>>   exception. >  > E > I'm with t'other Dave. It's a feature I dislike. I know SET CURSOR  F > whatever gets around it but it isn't default for my users and every D > now and again (two in the last two weeks) we fall foul of it. The F > reaction in our app has been resolved, if they update the format of H > their input files, but otherwise the rule is 'DO TRIM' before save and( > exit.  Me, I use SEDT for most things.  : If you don't like the default cursor behaviour, change it.G A new section file, with defaults our users were comfortable with, was iC the first thing I did when I switched them from EDT. I judged it a  ( success when most of them didn't notice.G TPU's strength (and EVE's too) is its flexibility - either system-wide m. or per-user (or even per-group if you prefer).   Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:38:40 +0000:0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.4 Message-ID: <cvusbg$jke$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:    > John Santos wrote: > @ >>Maybe there is a bit of magic that can be done in the OP's TPUF >>initialization file that would do exactly this?  (Force confirmation= >>before exiting with modified, unwritable buffers, that is.)l >  > E > No. TPU/EVE needs to be modified so everyone benefits from having apI > confirmation of unsaved changes when you have  amodifiable buffer beinguF > asked to wrote to a unwritable file to advise that this operation isF > impossible instead of just quitting from TPU without any warning and > losing the changes.p  G No. People who don't want modifiable unwriteable buffers shouldn't set  G them that way. They could also make the necessary amendments to eve so lG that they *can't* easily set them that way. They'd need to change "set eD buf modi" so that it doesn't work on a readonly buffer, or makes it I writeable. You'd have to be careful to avoid a circular loop, since "set iG buf wri" does already imply "set buf modi", and is the correct command   for these people to use.  G Those of us who want and use "set buf modi" as it stands don't want it tH broken, thank you. I'd have more sympathy for those people accidentally H losing work if it wasn't for "set buf wri" doing exactly what they want 8 - they just need to use that rather than "set buf modi".G If you work for hours in a buffer marked "modifiable" "readonly", what   do you expect ?o  E Why doesn't someone who wants this change post the necessary eve/tpu  F magic to remove/modify "set buf modi", for those who want it disabled?   ChrisW   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:56:15 +0000r- From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> ( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.8 Message-ID: <vqt521l690e4dhi64elt9qfefg5iqr8g3e@4ax.com>  1 On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:17:54 +0000, Chris Sharmant# <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote:t  ; >If you don't like the default cursor behaviour, change it.NH >A new section file, with defaults our users were comfortable with, was D >the first thing I did when I switched them from EDT. I judged it a ) >success when most of them didn't notice.IH >TPU's strength (and EVE's too) is its flexibility - either system-wide / >or per-user (or even per-group if you prefer).   L I won't dispute this, but my antipathy towards EVE/TPU goes back to day one.H It didn't ship with the EDT keypad pre-defined, which I thought was justG dumb, attempts to modify it met with a prompt for a new section with no K default name, and there were issues with failing to recover from journalledtJ sessions.  Daft things, I know, for a seasoned IT "pro" to complain about,K but EDT did and still does meet almost all of my needs.  Heck, I still missd the pattern matching in SOS...   -- -0 Fighting for peace is like screaming for quiet.    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 07:44:50 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.3 Message-ID: <G1A5cFRpTN0Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <421FE70D.BF587959@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  G > Well, actually, yes it is. See, the editor failed to first reposition0H > the cursor to the end of the line, which (IMO) it should have done. ItI > then added data I did not intend before adding the data I *DID* intend.w  A    You expect the editor to insert data in a different place from ?    where you have the cursor?  Now that would cause corruption.u   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 06:36:16 -08003 From: "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com>m( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.C Message-ID: <1109601376.244786.107640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>8  B Hi. Thanks for everybody's input and advice on this matter. What a0 helpful and supportive community we have in COV.  D I believe it was Hein who got to the root of the heart of the nub of the crux of the problem.  C > No you did not. You presented TPU with a bogus file and it failed D > to make sense of it. The real problem is that the file is not in a7 > vms supported format. It just happens to mostly work.-  D Aye, there's the rub. Eagle-eyed Hein has noticed what I overlooked.6 The file claims that its largest record is zero bytes!  D So, really it's not a TPU problem, it's a problem with the structureA of the file itself. Although EVE is being a bit pathetic with thee? way it ignores this problem and ploughs on regardless, the rootID cause is the way the NFS file server is presenting to the VMS systemA a file with invalid attributes.  So.. the proper long-term fix toeC this is to wait for the Unix NFS file server to be fixed so that itp  does not serve up 'bogus' files.   ** Sigh! **l  B (Rather than join the 'Waiting for Godot' cast, I might look for a workaround).  @ I'll respond to some of the replies here. Over the weekend, this= thread has mutated into a hydra-headed creature, but I'll tryc, chopping the most relevant heads that I see.     ~~~~~~% Galen [gspamtackett@yahoo.com] said..a  D >It might be interesting to try accessing these files with other VMS >file utilities.  B I had a play with a few, with some interesting results. COPY, TYPEC BACKUP, and ANALYZE all work fine. Suprisingly, anal/rms/check doese/ not throw up an error - shurely shome mishtake!y  @ Interesting to note that COPY creates such a perfect copy of the@ file, that you can get these bogus files on other disks as well.  C APPEND works but throws up a warning about incompatible attributes.-  D DIFF is the only other one in my brief check that failed in the sameD way. However, DIFF is a bit smarter, as it does set $STATUS to error< (indeed a severe error - %DIFF-F-READERR, error reading !AS)     ~~~~~~2 Richard Maher [maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com] said..  C >I didn't see the original problem, but along the lines of "*MAJOR* ) >bug in TPU" how's this for a feature : -s >sC >1) You edit some code with /READ 'cos the source in your references? >directory and you haven't checked it out for modification yet.  >oD >2) You suddenly suffer from an epiphany as hundreds of new lines of >code rush down to your fingerse >rC >3) You reach for the mouse and change the buffer from unmodifiablenE >to go-crazy (You're an adult! You'll sort out the niceties later. Soi >what if it contains nuts?)n >o, >4) Hours fly by in your code induced frenzy >a3 >5) You EXIT out of TPU ready to debug your changesc ><D >6) Just like magic your file is exactly how it started and all your" >changes have gone up in smoke :-( >dD >Not a warning message! Not a "Would you like a chance to save these >changes?" Nothin'!     Hey! have you been spying on me?B Actually, although I have been caught like this (not twice!), I doA not call this a bug, let alone a *major* bug. If I ask for a fileeC with /READ, I am clearly saying 'I do not wish to save this', and I @ certainly do not want to be pestered with a 'do you want to save this?' message when I finish.A  ? The nature of a bug to me, is when I ask for something, and getr@ something else, such as in my original case. Of course, EVE doesA spit out a bunch of messages, which if I am running interactivelynC and am observant, I should take notice of and act upon. However thesD way this problem hit me was with a batch job I was running. I have a@ piece of TPU code to extract all the SMSC contexts from a configC file (i.e. all data between a line that begins '[SMSC=xxxxx]' and ap4 line that begins '[anything'. Here is the 12 lines..   -------) loop<   split_line;            ! (In case we were already there..)/ !                        ! Find an SMSC contexty.   exitif not (eve_wildcard_find ("\<[SMSC="));B !                        ! Select to next context (or EOF if none)
   eve_select;t$   if not (eve_wildcard_find ("\<["))   then position (buffer_end);r   endif;B   eve$edt_append;        ! Append the SMSC context to paste buffer endloop;@ write_file (paste_buffer, get_info(command_line,"output_file")); QUIT (OFF, 1); -------n  C Now here is what I call a bug (ok, Hein has convinced me it's not ag  TPU bug, but it is still a bug).  @ When I run this, it will get only those contexts before the longD line, and then exit with a successful status, telling me that it hasD got the lot. Thus I have a completely incorrect view of the customer configuration - hence 'Ouch!'.  A Actually, just reading back what I have written here, I would saynC there *is* a problem with EVE here. It really should not say it hasaA worked when it hasn't, even if the reason it failed was thanks touD the bogosity of the served file. I shall take a look at this. (Since< EVE is open source, I will have a look to see if I can writeC something a bit more bomb-proof. I'll get back to you all if I come & up with something - watch this space).       ~~~~~~3 David J Dachtera [djesys.nospam@comcast.net] said..p  > >First, I'd consider the NFS store to be archival only. BeforeE >editing,make a local copy, and don't replace the source until you'reR >satisfied with the changes. >0E >Second, lines longer than the width of the screen are unsuitable fornE >common practice use with a text editor. If the application cannot be.E >"fixed" to use a more reasonable configuration file format, considerw> >developing a configuration editor (and make it as "portable",2 >whatever that means to you, as your application).    B Your first point I agree 100% with. Indeed, I only ever open theseD files for reading. They are updated by some arcane Unix procedure byD the installations team. Your second point sounds fine in theory, but@ is impossible to achieve. When we went from the old format filesD (the SCF or System Configuration File) to the newer CFG, we arrangedD that it you could have continuation lines, not put everything on oneA line. But customers (and installers) do what they want to do, and'D while it is easy to offer them new options, telling them 'you can noD longer do this - you must keep lines short' will not make them happyB bunnies. They like backward compatibility. Given unlimited time, IC would like to write a configuration editor, but then again, I wouldeC probably write it in TPU, as that is the text processing language Ii know and like best!u    So a fix would be needed anyway.     ~~~~~~5 O'Brien Paddy [Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au] said..s  B >I am of the opinion that the OP got exactly what he asked for but: >didn't want.  TPU gives us fields that say write/read andA >un/modifiable.  As has been explained, we can modify a read only A >file to (e.g.) look at lines beyond our normal screen width, but  >still not want to write.  >y" >We are supposed to be intelligentA >administrators/managers/programmers, but if we cannot comprehendtB >these two fields as having this differentiable significance, what >hope for the newbies?  > I'm not sure if I've lost the plot here, but as the OP on this@ thread I thought I would respond.  Fact is I did not get exactlyC what I asked for. I asked for the entire file, and it chopped it at  the long record.   ~~~~~~  @ Anyway my fingers are going numb so it's time to stop. Thanks to; everybody who responded (not just those I mentioned above).    - Cheers, John   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:48:14 GMT.# From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com>  Subject: Re: Point Securep< Message-ID: <yiFUd.131282$JF2.78605@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>    VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   >>> L >>>>The VMS Colorado Call Center thinks very highly of this product and can K >>>>add a lot of value to a customer planning to integrate this into their o >>>>environment. >>>j >>> Point Secure and rC >>System Detective are complimentary and recommended products by Co4   > Like they sell VMS?e >  > = Put a call in to Colorado Support and ask about Point Secure.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 08:52:07 -0800! From: kenneth.randell@verizon.netb Subject: Re: Point SecuredC Message-ID: <1109609527.313929.152340@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>s  ? > Put a call in to Colorado Support and ask about Point Secure.>  A I think you are missing Brian's point.  He, of all people, likelytF doesn't need to ask Colorado about anything.  Also, certain folks here feel:D  $ 1) HP doesn't promote VMS adequatelyG 2) PointSecure isn't necessarily highly regarded in all quarters or for ; all situations -- this isn't a 'one-size-fits' all product.t> 3) There are competitive alternatives to PointSecure products.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:11:11 GMTd" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Point Secureh0 Message-ID: <00A4011F.70273A9F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <yiFUd.131282$JF2.78605@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> writes: >  >l! >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:s >s >>>>M >>>>>The VMS Colorado Call Center thinks very highly of this product and can oL >>>>>add a lot of value to a customer planning to integrate this into their  >>>>>environment.a >>>> >>>> Point Secure and D >>>System Detective are complimentary and recommended products by Co >e >> Like they sell VMS? >>   >> e> >Put a call in to Colorado Support and ask about Point Secure.  ) OK.  You've done enough advertising here.i   -- yK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo            p5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" T   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:57:19 +0200b- From: "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi>n$ Subject: VMS Alpha 8.2 with CSWS 2.09 Message-ID: <QyEUd.1282$cg3.1241@reader1.news.jippii.net>e  I I finally received my 8.2 kits. So I upgradet my AS 500 test machine from-K 7.3-2 to 8.2. It was running CSWS 2.0 OK. Upgrade went fine, but now ApacheY startup fails with  7 %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image APACHE$APR_SHRP/ -CLI-E-IMGNAME, image fileA KAJAVA$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.APACHE.][000000]APACHE$APR_SHRP.EXE;1v; -SYSTEM-W-SYSVERDIF, system version mismatch; please relinkn   Known problem or what ?p   -Kari-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:58:10 -0000c* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>( Subject: Re: VMS Alpha 8.2 with CSWS 2.02 Message-ID: <cvv81j$eqs$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>  8 "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> wrote in message3 news:QyEUd.1282$cg3.1241@reader1.news.jippii.net...6  C > KAJAVA$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.APACHE.][000000]APACHE$APR_SHRP.EXE;1e= > -SYSTEM-W-SYSVERDIF, system version mismatch; please relinkc >s > Known problem or what ?e  W Apparently, something in the Apache port required some system level hacking, so I guesst\ you're out of luck until there is a new release. Someone else might have the inside track onD this... but obviously, porting the 1.3 stream was a higher priority.  Y If you access internals, you don't get the usual guarantees about backward compatibility.kW With 20/20 hindsight, writing "supported on version x or greater" wasn't ideal wording.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:56:05 GMTb! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>m( Subject: Re: VMS Alpha 8.2 with CSWS 2.08 Message-ID: <jda6215ekshhinqs3greiam2gugc9668ib@4ax.com>  O On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:58:10 -0000, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote:0   >U9 >"Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> wrote in messageS4 >news:QyEUd.1282$cg3.1241@reader1.news.jippii.net... > D >> KAJAVA$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.APACHE.][000000]APACHE$APR_SHRP.EXE;1> >> -SYSTEM-W-SYSVERDIF, system version mismatch; please relink >> >> Known problem or what ? > X >Apparently, something in the Apache port required some system level hacking, so I guess] >you're out of luck until there is a new release. Someone else might have the inside track onnE >this... but obviously, porting the 1.3 stream was a higher priority.   J CSWS 2.0 does not support OpenVMS 8.2. You'll need to wait for CSWS 2.1 ifP you're running OpenVMS 8.2. This should ship or rather be available for download Real Soon Now.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azure   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 06:59:47 -0800w# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>s( Subject: Re: VMS Alpha 8.2 with CSWS 2.0( Message-ID: <opsmww9xn6zgicya@hyrrokkin>  D On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:56:05 GMT, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote:  L > On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:58:10 -0000, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>   > wrote: >e >>; >> "Kari Keronen" <kari.keronen@digita.fi> wrote in messagee6 >> news:QyEUd.1282$cg3.1241@reader1.news.jippii.net... >>E >>> KAJAVA$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.APACHE.][000000]APACHE$APR_SHRP.EXE;1S? >>> -SYSTEM-W-SYSVERDIF, system version mismatch; please relink  >>>2 >>> Known problem or what ?C >>H >> Apparently, something in the Apache port required some system level   >> hacking, so I guessH >> you're out of luck until there is a new release. Someone else might   >> have the inside track ongG >> this... but obviously, porting the 1.3 stream was a higher priority.f >2K > CSWS 2.0 does not support OpenVMS 8.2. You'll need to wait for CSWS 2.1  l > ifK > you're running OpenVMS 8.2. This should ship or rather be available for  t
 > download > Real Soon Now.   Have you tried installing WASD?t >  > -- > Nigel Barker! > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur-       --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/o   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 08:27:45 -0800 From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com2A Subject: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk?eC Message-ID: <1109608065.016739.142670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>t  C Is a Shadow disk in OpenVMS the same as a Mirrored disk in RAID for F Windows or other OS?  And does anyone know why a Quorum disk cannot be shadowed.  Thanks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:46:01 +0100S, From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.dotweg@zonnet.nl>E Subject: Re: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk?s, Message-ID: <38h0ajF5n7rhrU1@individual.net>  . <john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht= news:1109608065.016739.142670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...tE > Is a Shadow disk in OpenVMS the same as a Mirrored disk in RAID for,H > Windows or other OS?  And does anyone know why a Quorum disk cannot be > shadowed.  Thanks. >tK Err, yes and no. I can almost see you looking at the ceiling thinking "wisee= ass":-) but there's a reason for at least a little confusion.oI A VMS shadow set is a software based solution. The OS recognizes the disk6G devices and bundles them into a shadow set. There is a decicated deviceoI driver that does all the work. Once the shadow set device is created, the J users and system administrators access the shadow set through that driver.F Example: under VMS a SCSI disk uses the DKdriver and the shadow set isI implemented by the DSdriver. Consequently a shadow set called, say, DSA3:tI may consist of one, two or three harddisks, say, $2$DKA0:, $2$DKB100: and&
 $2$DKB300:. This technique is called host based shadowing.B Now there's also a thing called controller based shadowing. A RAIDK controller drives the harddisks and the RAID sets are defined thru firmwareaL tools built into that controller. The main difference here is that the OS noH longer controls the actual disk hardware, no longer knows whether a RAIDD volume is RAID-1 or RAID-5, let alone how many disks the RAID volumeK contains. VMS tends to know that controller based RAID is used, these disks-L are under control by DRdriver (and are called DRAn: accordingly). Other OSesK might not even know. Windows 2000 Server just recognizes a RAID-1 set as C:-$ and has no clue about the mirroring.K In terms of recovery and speed there's not much difference between the two,uG other than that host base shadowing uses main processor cycles and RAIDfI controllers use there own processor abilities. But the difference lies insF system management opportunities. With VMS you are able to dismount oneC member from a shadow set, and back it up or mount it on an entirelyaB different system. Each member of the set is identical. That is notF necessarily the case with RAID controllers, nor can you be sure that aK RAID-1 member can be used on a normal standalone system with a regular SCSIa controller.eL Complicated? Not at all, just wait until we start discussing HSC50's and HSC based shadowing....b  K Under VMS a shadow set (DSAn:) device cannot be used as a quorum disk. IIRCr& a RAID set member (DRAn:) can be used.   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:24:21 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>aE Subject: Re: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk?l8 Message-ID: <ooi621t9leooq5vgl4661qtc7g6vcr7b0j@4ax.com>  ? On 28 Feb 2005 08:27:45 -0800, john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com wrote:a  D >Is a Shadow disk in OpenVMS the same as a Mirrored disk in RAID forG >Windows or other OS?  And does anyone know why a Quorum disk cannot beo >shadowed.  Thanks.a  J In the old days there was a clear distinction between VMS Shadowing & DiskP Mirroring. With Shadowing two disks work as one. All writes go to both but readsM are done from whichever has its head nearer the data. Disk Mirroring on otherlO operating systems would be just that. All writes go to both disks but reads aret only done from the master disk.m  L Nowadays with a variety of hardware based RAID solutions the waters are muchP murkier. Often it's not even a real disk that VMS is shadowing. A combination ofJ Host Based Volume Shadowing on top of hardware RAID 0+1 or RAID 5 provides extreme reliability.  M A quorum disk cannot be shadowed by HBVS as it must be a single unique entityiO able to cast a tie-breaking vote in the case of a split cluster. However it canmL be created as a RAID set at the hardware level because although there is nowC hardware redundancy as far as VMS is concerned it is a single disk.b   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurg   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:38:09 -0500o1 From: JF Mezei <"jfmezei.spamnot"@teksavvy.com\\>eE Subject: Re: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk?hB Message-ID: <1109611548.fc88a34544a377d47c6636acb3645021@teranews>    john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com wrote: > E > Is a Shadow disk in OpenVMS the same as a Mirrored disk in RAID foriH > Windows or other OS?  And does anyone know why a Quorum disk cannot be
 > shadowed.  o  2 The same in concept, but different implementation.  H Shadowed drives arte controlled by the operating system and thus tightlyD integrated into the OS and clustering. RAID drives appears as single= drives to the OS and the OS doesn't know about any shadowing.p   In terms of quorum.a  F Consider a 2 node cluster with each node having 1 vote, and a shadowedI drive being a quorum of 1 vote, and this drive has members on both nodes.s  H If you cut the cable between the 2 nodes, each node will continue to seeF the quorum drive because one member still exists in the shadow set. SoD the 2 nodes will continue to operate independantly, what is called aF partitioned cluster. When the system rejoin the cluster, there will beC much data integrity problems, and more importantly, when you try to E rejoin the shadow sets, which of the 2 drives will act ans source andpE which will act as target of the merge/copy operation ? One of the twoyC drives will have its data destroyed, so any work done by one of the 5 nodes while the cluster was partitioned will be lost.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:41:31 -0500p1 From: JF Mezei <"jfmezei.spamnot"@teksavvy.com\\>aE Subject: Re: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk?gB Message-ID: <1109611748.b47627b4966807448cd3b8c3d944e787@teranews>   Hans Vlems wrote:-  cM > Under VMS a shadow set (DSAn:) device cannot be used as a quorum disk. IIRCt( > a RAID set member (DRAn:) can be used.  H Can be used, but shoudln't be used. You can end up with the same problemE of a partitioned cluster, especially if the link between the RAIDs isRD still up, but the link between the VMS nodes is down. The RAID arrayH will have no clue of lost quorum since its link is up, but the VMS nodesA will be playing with the same drives on the RAID system without af$ distributed locking being available.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:03:04 GMTn# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)rE Subject: Re: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk? 0 Message-ID: <IVJUd.706$X_7.433@news.cpqcorp.net>  e In article <1109608065.016739.142670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com writes:   < Re: What is the Difference between Shadow and Mirrored disk?  *   Hopefully, there is no difference.  :-)   D :Is a Shadow disk in OpenVMS the same as a Mirrored disk in RAID for :Windows or other OS?  I  C   OpenVMS uses host-based volume shadowing (a software RAID packagelC   integrated into OpenVMS, and separately licensed) for single-hostnB   and for distributed (multi-host) mirrored data, and OpenVMS usesA   controller-based RAID for maintaining replicated copies of datadD   using controller hardware.  Both are used for mirroring disk data.  = :And does anyone know why a Quorum disk cannot be shadowed.  2  E   Because two quorum disks -- the failure case when host-based volumeiC   shadowing is around -- would be very bad for your data integrity.m@   Imagine, if you will, two lobes that loose contact, both with B   a fully-accessable volume from a quorum disk RAID configuration.E   Remember that host-based volume shadowing can span multiple systemssF   and hundreds of miles, and the design center for such configurations-   is for reliability and data accessability. O  B   You cam have a quorum disk on a controller-based RAID volume, soB   long as there is no way for the volume to be accessable via more0   than one path; directly to more than one host.  A   The quorum disk is a way to avoid having a third (voting) node,tD   while maintaining data integrity.  (A quorum disk does necessarilyE   require at least dual-path accessability to be particularly useful,.D   too -- configuring and operating a quorum disk that is single-path4   accessable is, well, unnecessary.  But I digress.)  A   For related information on VOTES, EXPECTED_VOTES and the quorumpC   implementation, please see associated section of the OpenVMS FAQ.gD   Search the text-format version of the FAQ, as this discussion will;   likely be easiest to locate using that format of the FAQ.e    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqiN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Feb 2005 18:07:52 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)h' Subject: [DS15] DECW or hardware hang ?H! Message-ID: <tamS3hRPbIlU@sinead>    Hi all,   D I encounter a strange behaviour with a DS15 I'm configuring at work.- 512 Mb RAm, Radeon 7500, VMS 7.3-2 Update 2.0s  G I encounter frequent system hangs, especially when playing with Dectermt= scrollbars. The hang is total, no way to login via ethernet. e  K The memory is the original HP one. No memory errors are logged. I've made ao memtest under SMR/  7 > memtest -sa 0x0002BD20 -l 0x1FD42000 -b 1024 -p 1000 t   with and without -se 2   No errors are reported.   K I've upgraded the firmware from 6.7 to 6.8 (just received the 8.2 kits) but-7 same problem. I've installed update V 3.0 same problem.2  M I suspect a hardware pb, but which ? mem ? cpu cache ? or a hidden DECW bug ?R  / If you have a clue ... if not i'll call HP ....i   TIAe   Patrick3 --O ===============================================================================-N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)      ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:06:41 GMTe# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)o+ Subject: Re: [DS15] DECW or hardware hang ? 0 Message-ID: <5ZJUd.707$X_7.446@news.cpqcorp.net>  o In article <tamS3hRPbIlU@sinead>, pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) writes:t  E :I encounter a strange behaviour with a DS15 I'm configuring at work.r. :512 Mb RAm, Radeon 7500, VMS 7.3-2 Update 2.0  H   It is possible that this is hardware or software, and it would be bestF   to open a service escalation.  There are other ECOs for OpenVMS thatH   can lead to hangs or other problems -- there are various mandatory ECOI   kits, and you will likely want the GRAPHICS kit for this configuration,-
   as a start.,    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq@N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com0   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.118 ************************