/ INFO-VAX	Wed, 05 Jan 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 9       Contents:* C File sharing issue with multiple writers. Re: C File sharing issue with multiple writers Re: Canadian Internet Policy0 Re: Guest appearance by Carly in today's Dilbert1 Help - SYSUAF and $SETUAI on UAI$_USER_DATA field 9 Re: How to get Tape Tools to recognize terminfo database? 9 Re: How to get Tape Tools to recognize terminfo database? 9 Re: How to get Tape Tools to recognize terminfo database? 9 Re: How to get Tape Tools to recognize terminfo database? ) Re: HP pulls out of IA64 chip development ) Re: HP pulls out of IA64 chip development ) Re: HP pulls out of IA64 chip development ) Re: HP pulls out of IA64 chip development ) Re: Legato vs VMS Backup -- Recover Speed  Re: More on Tru64  Re: More on Tru64 B Re: need help in decoding VAXstation 4000/60 console error message/ Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$ / Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$ / Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$ / Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$ / Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$ / Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$ / Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$ / Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$  Re: Need UNIX clarification  Re: Need UNIX clarification , Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED? TCP/IP mailing problem Re: TCP/IP mailing problem Re: VMS and digital cameras  VMS trialware CD Re: VMS trialware CD3 Re: What's the state of USB 2.0 support in VMS 8.2? 3 Re: What's the state of USB 2.0 support in VMS 8.2?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2005 18:47:40 -0800 0 From: "Kannan" <kannan.s.viswanathan@oracle.com>3 Subject: C File sharing issue with multiple writers C Message-ID: <1104893260.841985.178950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Hi,   G I am in the process of porting a high availabilty unix application that D is part of ORACLE DB server on to VMS and hitting with the followingG issue. Will greatly appreciate your inputs to get a resloution on this.     ( brief description of the functionality .F There is a file Oracle configuration Repository (a streamlf mode  fileG on VMS Cluster file system), which has resources registered by a daemon E process that can run on multiple nodes and share this common file. At E any point of time one will be a master which can write into this OCR.    Problem Description:F I scanned the related messages posted in this group and arrived at theD open call mentioned below to properly open this file in shared mode.  @ The open call I am using to open this file in shared mode is the	 following  open((const charM *)filename,O_RDWR|O_DSYNC,"ctx=rec","rfm=stmlf","shr=get,put,upd","rop=rea");   E and the writes and reads on the file is done using pwrite and pread C G runtime calls, which reads/writes based on offset information. And I am F doing fsync call after every pwrite , so that the data gets written to the disk immediately.    The problem I am observing is B 1. Daemon 1 on the first node, opens the OCR file in rdwr mode andE writes the basic information. After this write is completed, the file  size is 1040 blocks.D 2. Daemon 2 on the other node, now opens the file(when the file size- was 1040 blocks) in rdwr mode and initiates a B write request to daemon 1 (which acts as a master) to register itsD basic information . Daemon 1 starts writing node2 information and at+ the end of it the file size is 1048 blocks.   G Now for some reason if the Daemon 2 exits/crashes, the file size on VMS E gets truncated to 1040 blocks essentially corrupting this file. Also, G now if daemon 1 exits and daemon 2 attempts to read beyond 1040 blocks,  it gets an error  A My guess is the new EOF pointer is not known to daemon2 and hence E closing this file with the EOF pointer it had when it opened the file E and same is the case with read. I was told that on UNIX, the EOF file D pointer is updated across the processes dynamically. Not sure how weD can achieve this on VMS. Please correct if my above theory is wrong.  G I will greatly appreciate if you could provide some pointers as to what F could be the issue here and if there are ways to workaround this issue on VMS. Please     Thanks in advance. Kannan.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:09:54 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>7 Subject: Re: C File sharing issue with multiple writers + Message-ID: <41DB5A82.6DC568EF@comcast.net>   
 Kannan wrote:  >  > Hi,  > I > I am in the process of porting a high availabilty unix application that F > is part of ORACLE DB server on to VMS and hitting with the followingI > issue. Will greatly appreciate your inputs to get a resloution on this.  > * > brief description of the functionality .H > There is a file Oracle configuration Repository (a streamlf mode  fileI > on VMS Cluster file system), which has resources registered by a daemon G > process that can run on multiple nodes and share this common file. At G > any point of time one will be a master which can write into this OCR.  >  > Problem Description:H > I scanned the related messages posted in this group and arrived at theF > open call mentioned below to properly open this file in shared mode. > B > The open call I am using to open this file in shared mode is the > following  > open((const charO > *)filename,O_RDWR|O_DSYNC,"ctx=rec","rfm=stmlf","shr=get,put,upd","rop=rea");  > G > and the writes and reads on the file is done using pwrite and pread C I > runtime calls, which reads/writes based on offset information. And I am H > doing fsync call after every pwrite , so that the data gets written to > the disk immediately.  >  > The problem I am observing is D > 1. Daemon 1 on the first node, opens the OCR file in rdwr mode andG > writes the basic information. After this write is completed, the file  > size is 1040 blocks.F > 2. Daemon 2 on the other node, now opens the file(when the file size/ > was 1040 blocks) in rdwr mode and initiates a D > write request to daemon 1 (which acts as a master) to register itsF > basic information . Daemon 1 starts writing node2 information and at- > the end of it the file size is 1048 blocks.  > I > Now for some reason if the Daemon 2 exits/crashes, the file size on VMS G > gets truncated to 1040 blocks essentially corrupting this file. Also, I > now if daemon 1 exits and daemon 2 attempts to read beyond 1040 blocks,  > it gets an error > C > My guess is the new EOF pointer is not known to daemon2 and hence G > closing this file with the EOF pointer it had when it opened the file G > and same is the case with read. I was told that on UNIX, the EOF file F > pointer is updated across the processes dynamically. Not sure how weF > can achieve this on VMS. Please correct if my above theory is wrong. > I > I will greatly appreciate if you could provide some pointers as to what H > could be the issue here and if there are ways to workaround this issue > on VMS. Please  9 First guess time: open the file, write it, then close it.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:05:02 GMT ' From: Lucas Tam <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com> % Subject: Re: Canadian Internet Policy 9 Message-ID: <Xns95D4A3F89A476nntprogerscom@140.99.99.130>   ) Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in  0 news:9a28fd487b88a3f623eeffde1ad37c87@dizum.com:  
 > Just go to   >  > alt.anonymous.messages > J > and look at thousands of terrorist to terrorist messages.  Usenet is theE > only foolproof method terrorists can use to speedily transmit their K > sinister plans to each other.  For all I know Bin Laden himself speaks on # > that anti-civilization newsgroup.    oh well, such is free speech.    --  ! Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com) = Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying. + http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:16:24 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>9 Subject: Re: Guest appearance by Carly in today's Dilbert 2 Message-ID: <sQCCd.5064$Zf6.4835@news.cpqcorp.net>  ( > HP 57 Tri-color Inkjet Print Cartridge  9 Typically used in conjunction with the HP 56 Black Inkjet C cartridge/pen (some old timers still call them pens in reference to C plotter days) and also the HP 58 Photo Cartridge.  IIRC the numbers > correspond to the last two digits of their "proper" HP productE numbers.  The idea being it is easier for a customer to remember that G his printer uses a "56" than a "C23456." (not the real product number -  I don't have _those_ memorized)   E If you go into a store that carries HP printer supplies, you will see 7 those numbers displayed prominently on the front of the  packaging. Something like this:   C http://www.shopping.hp.com/shopping/images/products/c6657an_400.jpg   
 rick jonesE owner of a PhotoSmart 7150 printer - which happens to use those three 	 cartidges  --  . a wide gulf separates "what if" from "if only"F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:34:27 -0700 ( From: Lorin Ricker <lorin@locktrack.com>: Subject: Help - SYSUAF and $SETUAI on UAI$_USER_DATA field8 Message-ID: <14nmt0peo98q2rvcdfu8noj7evb7e0pd6q@4ax.com>  A I'm at my wit's end trying to find & fix some buggy behavior in a ? utility program I've written which uses the system RTL routines D $GETUAI and $SETUAI -- I need help and perspective from someone withB more experience, and perhaps who has access to relevant VMS systemC service code listings.  Apologies in advance for the length of this  post.    PROGRAM DESCRIPTION:C I've written a utility, SETUAI.EXE in Pascal v5.8-92 on VMS v7.2-1, @ which can fetch (display with an application /SHOW), insert &/or: update (with /ADD="string"), and delete/remove data in theA UAI$_USER_DATA field of a SYSUAF.DAT user/account record, via the @ system RTLs $GETUAI and $SETUAI.  The basic utility command line syntax looks like:   $ SETUAI username - $     [/SHOW[=(keyword[,keyword]...] -     [/ADD="string"] -      [/TIMEZONE=tzstring] -     [/DELETE[=keyword]] -      [/LOG] -     [/VERSION]  A The data I'm attempting to get/put in the UAI$_USER_DATA field is A interpreted as a counted-string of ASCII, basically an image of a = Pascal VARYING string simply laid into that field-area.  (The ? semantics aren't relevant here, but for the curious:  We encode C application-specific and timezone information on a per-user/account D basis so that we can reasonably represent date/time fields in an RdbE database for users across the country.  The application-side code for D this is well-developed; this UAF data is just the "starter seed" for1 each username/account, fetched and interpreted at > app-startup/initialization, to define their local TZ and other= application-specific stuff for the application environment to  interpret and use.)   F Although the documentation in the System Services Manual for these twoE routines is rather brief/sketchy for this itemlist function, it seems ; straightforward enough ("...returns/sets up to 255 bytes of D information from the user data area of the system user authorizationF file SYSUAF").  IFAIK, I don't think the relevant paragraphs for these> RTLs have been updated since my DEC-printed copy of the System. Services Ref Man (AA-QSBNA-TE, December 1995).  D I've encapsulated these two RTLs in Pascal application jackets which? set up simple itemlists and which carefully attend to resulting = condition-codes.  In all of my attempts to step through these A application jackets with the Debugger, I've never seen either RTL A return anything other than SS$_NORMAL, so I presume my arg-lists, B itemlist values, etc. are OK, and that each RTL invocation must be "working right", eh?  @ If needed, I can post these two jacket routines, &/or other code: fragments... The whole program is not particularly long orE complicated, mostly consists of absorbing the command-line qualifiers B and guiding data strings around -- the $GETUAI and $SETUAI are the guts of it all.    PROBLEM DESCRIPTION:B Overall, SETUAI's logic/code is well-developed and has been pretty? thoroughly debugged.  The problem is in the apparent and random ? failure of $SETUAI to actually write (commit?... if I can use a B database term) data reliably to *every* user/account record in the SYSUAF.DAT.   C Perhaps naively, I'm expecting that for each call to $SETUAI with a > userdata string, I should be able to write that string to  theC UAI$_USER_DATA field, and then to retrieve that same data back with D $GETUAI to verify the write... right?  Well, this happens for *some* UAF records, but not all...   D In short, SETUAI in its present form can read/fetch userdata stringsB from every UAF record.  It can also write (add or update) userdataE strings to *some* records, but not all.  And the records for which it B fails to write userdata strings is unpredictable.  In other words,F attempts to do a $SETUAI on UAI$_USER_DATA works for some records, butE fails on nearly half of them (out of approx 600 records in my SYSUAF) B --- and which ones succeed and which fail is impossible to predict ahead of time.  C However, individual UAF records themselves behave repeatably -- the F ones that succeed can be updated with different userdata with recklessE abandon (and that data can be reliably read/fetched & displayed); the D ones that fail, they always fail.  Visual inspection of the records,B with UAF> SHOW USERNAME, doesn't help me see any pattern or clues.  D In particular, stepping through the $SETUAI jacket with the DebuggerF with data for a record which "should fail", and checking the cond-codeA after the RTL's call, always returns SS$_NORMAL, no indication of  runtime error.   SUMMARY & QUESTIONS:D I'm baffled, and don't have much more information to go on or share. To date, I have (at least):   E a)  Done both a CONVERT /RECLAIM and an RMS file CONVERT on copies of B the SYSUAF.DAT file to attempt to "clean up" file buckets, records/ marked as deleted, etc.  No change in behavior.   B b)  Looked for asynchronous and volatile data issues/problems, andC I've used all available Pascal attributes and directives to be sure B that I'm not being tripped up by this sort of thing.  No change inE behavior.  I'm pretty darn sure that compiler-optimization issues are  not at fault here.  F c)  Looked long and hard for any multi-user/concurrency/sharing issues? with the SYSUAF.DAT file itself --- can't see any, and besides, D shouldn't the RTLs $GETUAI and $SETUAI take care of these things forF me anyway?  With what tinkering I've done in this regard, no change in	 behavior.   B d)  While developing/debugging, I use a copy of my SYSUAF.DAT in aD development directory, and point a /JOB logical SYSUAF at that copy,D in the hopes that $GET/SETUAI are honoring that logical redirection.  = *  Do $GET/SETUAI honor the logical name "SYSUAF" to redirect B operations to test-copies of SYSUAF.DAT, or are these RTL routines; "hard-wired" to the official system instance in SYS$SYSTEM?   @ *  Is there better/improved documentation for the UAI$_USER_DATA function of $GET/SETUAI?  B *  Are there undocumented "tricks" for getting $SETUAI to actuallyC write updated information in the userdata field each and every time  it's called?  C *  The unpredictable behavior of this makes me want to believe that D there's a latent bug in the UAI$_USER_DATA itemlist functionality ofB $SETUAI (although it's still more likely that the problem is in myD code &/or approach, based on ignorance).  Are there VMS bugs in thisF vicinity that need reporting, or have they been already discovered and( fixed in a release subsequent to v7.2-1?  5 *  Any wisdom, experience, expertise to share?  Help!   E I'll appreciate any tidbits of knowledge which helps me gain some new @ traction on this... at the moment, I've skidded to a halt.  TIA.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:40:50 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)B Subject: Re: How to get Tape Tools to recognize terminfo database?6 Message-ID: <00A3D5FC.3B4BBFA1@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  V In article <41DAD3B8.4030304@csdco.com>, John Nebel <john.nebel_vms@csdco.com> writes: John --   : (Sorry for top-posting; it seems to make more sense here.)  O Thanks so much for this!  I foolishly followed the advice in the online manual, = and didn't look through the installed directory for a readme.   I This got the LTT tool running right away.  (And I see that my drives fail  testing, but I don't see why.)   Thanks!    -- Alan    >  >See the VMS readme in [.misc] > ) >Directory $1$DGA101:[VMS$COMMON.OPT.LTT]  > H >CATALOGS.DIR;1      FIRMWARE.DIR;1      HP_LTT.EXE;1        LOGS.DIR;1  > " >MISC.DIR;1          SCRIPTS.DIR;1 >  >  >Hera $ sho defau " >   $1$DGA101:[VMS$COMMON.OPT.LTT]> >Hera $ DEFINE USR SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.OPT.LTT.MISC.USR] >Hera $ run hp_ltt >  >(and the screen comes up) >  > K >     +- Informational: hp L&TT ------------------------------------------+ 	 >      |   >   | C >      |  hp StorageWorks library and tape tools - Version 3.5 SR1   >   | 	 >      |   >   | D >      |  Please stop all software and services that may access any  >   | ( >      |  devices that L&TT may access.  >   | 	 >      |   >   | I >      |  Note: This tool uses keyboard commands for navigation, however   >   | I >      |  on most screens you can also enter a blank command to access a   >   | , >      |  numbered menu to select commands.  >   | 	 >      |   >   | 	 >      |   >   | $ >      +- Press any key to continue ) >---------------------------------------+  >  >  >John  >  > - >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  >  >> OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-2 >> DS20E6 >> "HP StorageWorks Library and Tape Tools User Guide" >> DCL; GNV not installed. >>  P >> I downloaded the tape tool PCSI kit, reset file attributes, and INSTALLed it.R >> According to the docs, it needs the terminfo database to run.  I googled aroundR >> and found somebody else had been looking for this last June, and I followed theP >> suggestion that guy had gotten to get termtypes.ti.giz off Eric Raymond's web >> page. >>  P >> So I GUNZIPed the file and put it in SYS$SYSDEVICE:[USR.LOCAL.SHARE.TERMINFO] >> as TERMTYPES.TI >>  O >> It seems to be a readable text file.   Manual says to define USR to point at ) >> the the top level directory, so I did:  >>   >> $sho log usr 7 >>    "USR" = "SYS$SYSDEVICE:[USR]" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  >>   >> $ SET TERM/DEV=VT100 # >> $ run sys$common:[opt.ltt]hp_ltt ! >> Error opening terminal: vt100.  >>  P >> Which apparently tries to run the project, but I guess t can't find the VT100 >> entry in the database.  >>    >> $ SET WATCH FILE /CLASS=MAJOR >>  1 >> doesn't seem to show it looking for this file.  >>  & >> TERMINFO>set watch file/class=majorL >> %XQP, Thread #0, Deaccess (549,7,0) Reads: 6, Writes: 0, Status: 00000001* >> TERMINFO>run sys$common:[opt.ltt]hp_lttE >> %XQP, Thread #0, Access HP_LTT.EXE;1 (50203,60,0) Status: 00000001 C >> %XQP, Thread #0, Access PPLRTL.EXE;1 (1792,7,0) Status: 00000001 9 >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (50203,60,0) Status: 00000001 E >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup HP_LTT.EXE;1 (50203,60,0) Status: 00000001 8 >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (37111,3,0) Status: 00000001K >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup DECC$SHR_EV56.EXE;1 (37111,3,0) Status: 00000001 9 >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (20874,16,0) Status: 00000001 G >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup DPML$SHR.EXE;1 (20874,16,0) Status: 00000001 7 >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (1792,7,0) Status: 00000001 C >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup PPLRTL.EXE;1 (1792,7,0) Status: 00000001 ; >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (44897,1440,0) Status: 00000001 L >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup PTHREAD$RTL.EXE;1 (44897,1440,0) Status: 000000017 >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (1636,7,0) Status: 00000001 H >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup CMA$TIS_SHR.EXE;1 (1636,7,0) Status: 000000019 >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (44595,31,0) Status: 00000001 E >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup LIBRTL.EXE;1 (44595,31,0) Status: 00000001 7 >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (1759,7,0) Status: 00000001 C >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup LIBOTS.EXE;1 (1759,7,0) Status: 00000001 7 >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (1634,7,0) Status: 00000001 D >> %XQP, Thread #0, Access CMA$RTL.EXE;1 (1634,7,0) Status: 00000001A >> %XQP, Thread #0, Control function  (1634,7,0) Status: 00000001 M >> %XQP, Thread #0, Deaccess (1634,7,0) Reads: 3, Writes: 0, Status: 00000001 4 >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (0,0,0) Status: 000009104 >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (0,0,0) Status: 000009104 >> %XQP, Thread #0, Lookup  (0,0,0) Status: 00000910! >> Error opening terminal: vt100. Q >> %XQP, Thread #0, Deaccess (50203,60,0) Reads: 249, Writes: 0, Status: 00000001 N >> %XQP, Thread #0, Deaccess (1792,7,0) Reads: 10, Writes: 0, Status: 00000001 >>   >>  P >> Where can I put my terminfo file and what can I define to get LTT to use it? & >> If this isn't the problem, what is? >>  
 >> Thanks, >>  
 >> -- Alan >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:53:29 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>B Subject: Re: How to get Tape Tools to recognize terminfo database?+ Message-ID: <41DB56A9.DABF2726@comcast.net>   , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > X > In article <41DAD3B8.4030304@csdco.com>, John Nebel <john.nebel_vms@csdco.com> writes:	 > John --  > < > (Sorry for top-posting; it seems to make more sense here.) > Q > Thanks so much for this!  I foolishly followed the advice in the online manual, ? > and didn't look through the installed directory for a readme.  > K > This got the LTT tool running right away.  (And I see that my drives fail   > testing, but I don't see why.)  H If you could post clearer details of what you did and the effect it had,G I personally would appreciate it, and perhaps others, but I can't speak 	 for them.   G That said, last time I inquired, LTT was only alpha-quality, not yet in  full beta release.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 03:12:03 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)B Subject: Re: How to get Tape Tools to recognize terminfo database?6 Message-ID: <00A3D619.BCFEFC64@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ` In article <41DB56A9.DABF2726@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:- >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  >>  Y >> In article <41DAD3B8.4030304@csdco.com>, John Nebel <john.nebel_vms@csdco.com> writes: 
 >> John -- >>  = >> (Sorry for top-posting; it seems to make more sense here.)  >>  R >> Thanks so much for this!  I foolishly followed the advice in the online manual,@ >> and didn't look through the installed directory for a readme. >>  L >> This got the LTT tool running right away.  (And I see that my drives fail! >> testing, but I don't see why.)  > I >If you could post clearer details of what you did and the effect it had, H >I personally would appreciate it, and perhaps others, but I can't speak
 >for them. >   G I defined USR to point to a top-level sys$sysdevice:[usr] and installed L a terminfo database several steps down that tree.  This didn't enable LTT to find terminfo.  N The advice John gave me (included below) let LTT find a terminfo and start up.   Is that what you were asking?   H >That said, last time I inquired, LTT was only alpha-quality, not yet in >full beta release.   J It certainly seems kind of flaky (features in the menu that turn out to beM unsupported, etc), but I didn't see any warnings on it when I found it on the  hp web site.   -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 03:35:00 +0000 7 From: David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> B Subject: Re: How to get Tape Tools to recognize terminfo database?* Message-ID: <41DB6064.8070609@bigpond.com>  & David J Dachtera mentioned in passing:. > Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > X >>In article <41DAD3B8.4030304@csdco.com>, John Nebel <john.nebel_vms@csdco.com> writes:	 >>John --  >>< >>(Sorry for top-posting; it seems to make more sense here.) >>Q >>Thanks so much for this!  I foolishly followed the advice in the online manual, ? >>and didn't look through the installed directory for a readme.  >>K >>This got the LTT tool running right away.  (And I see that my drives fail   >>testing, but I don't see why.) >  > J > If you could post clearer details of what you did and the effect it had,I > I personally would appreciate it, and perhaps others, but I can't speak  > for them.  > I > That said, last time I inquired, LTT was only alpha-quality, not yet in  > full beta release. >     From the file;      SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.OPT.LTT.MISC]README_OVMS.TXT    RUNNING LTT: ------------< 1) Set the term to vt100, this can be done using the command        SET TERM /DEV=VT100  9 2) Create the logical name USR such that it points to the :     directory sys$sysdevice:[vms$common.opt.ltt.misc.usr].1     This can be done using the following command. =        DEFINE USR SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.OPT.LTT.MISC.USR]   " 3) To run LTT, go to the directory&     sys$sysdevice:[vms$common.opt.ltt]#     and give the following command.         RUN HP_LTT.EXE   ; I tried it without the SET TERM (I was using a DECterm) and  it ran with no problems.   Regards, Dave --  B David B Sneddon (dbs) VMS Systems Programmer dbsneddon@bigpond.comB Sneddo's quick guide ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/B DBS freeware   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 16:05:36 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 2 Subject: Re: HP pulls out of IA64 chip development, Message-ID: <kNednbV099KBmEbcRVn-qQ@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > John Reagan wrote:A >> For product, they received Fortran.  For years, people praised D >> DEC/Compaq's Visual Fortran product so that seemed to be a winner# >> over any existing Intel product.  >  > A > What is "Visual Fortran" ??? Is that a Windows product that was 9 > totally unrelated to the real fortran compiler on VMS ?     F IIRC, Digital and Microsoft did a deal back when NT Affinity was a hotL item.....I believe that Digital absorbed and supported the Microsoft Fortran; compiler product and made it have both VMS and NT extension = constructs....and some other stuff.  I stand to be corrected.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 22:42:01 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>2 Subject: Re: HP pulls out of IA64 chip development2 Message-ID: <ZYECd.5086$jy6.2098@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Smith wrote:    > H > IIRC, Digital and Microsoft did a deal back when NT Affinity was a hotN > item.....I believe that Digital absorbed and supported the Microsoft Fortran= > compiler product and made it have both VMS and NT extension ? > constructs....and some other stuff.  I stand to be corrected.  >  >   H Steve Lionel would know for sure, but that doesn't sound correct to me. @   I don't believe that Microsoft Fortran was ever "absorbed" or  "supported" by Digital.      --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:01:47 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>2 Subject: Re: HP pulls out of IA64 chip development* Message-ID: <41DB205D.7030101@prodigy.net>   John Reagan wrote: > John Smith wrote:  >  >>I >> IIRC, Digital and Microsoft did a deal back when NT Affinity was a hot H >> item.....I believe that Digital absorbed and supported the Microsoft 
 >> Fortran> >> compiler product and made it have both VMS and NT extension@ >> constructs....and some other stuff.  I stand to be corrected. >> >> > J > Steve Lionel would know for sure, but that doesn't sound correct to me. A >  I don't believe that Microsoft Fortran was ever "absorbed" or   > "supported" by Digital.  >  > F I think it's more like Digital added Microsoft's extensions to its own compiler and supported _those_.    --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 21:23:35 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 2 Subject: Re: HP pulls out of IA64 chip development, Message-ID: <hsCdnTdCt9Q-0kbcRVn-qw@igs.net>  
 CJT wrote: > John Reagan wrote: >> John Smith wrote: >> >>> F >>> IIRC, Digital and Microsoft did a deal back when NT Affinity was aB >>> hot item.....I believe that Digital absorbed and supported the >>> Microsoft Fortran ? >>> compiler product and made it have both VMS and NT extension A >>> constructs....and some other stuff.  I stand to be corrected.  >>>  >>>  >>F >> Steve Lionel would know for sure, but that doesn't sound correct toE >>  me. I don't believe that Microsoft Fortran was ever "absorbed" or  >> "supported" by Digital. >> >>H > I think it's more like Digital added Microsoft's extensions to its own! > compiler and supported _those_.      This explains it: @ http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1997/Mar97/digitlpr.asp    C DIGITAL and Microsoft Announce Developer Studio Licensing Agreement   B Combination of DIGITAL's Fortran 90 Compiler Technology, MicrosoftD Development Environment Provides Powerful Scientific and Engineering9 Solutions for Windows NT And Windows 95 Operating Systems   G MAYNARD, Mass., and REDMOND, Wash. - March 11, 1997 - DIGITAL Equipment J Corp. and Microsoft Corp. today announced an agreement under which DIGITALH will license the Microsoft Developer StudioT visual development system.J DIGITAL's first product under the arrangement, DIGITALT Visual Fortran 5.0G for the Microsoft Windows 95 and Windows NT operating systems, can be I ordered beginning March 19 for shipments starting next month. It features F the combined strengths of DIGITAL's Fortran 90 compiler technology andG Microsoft Developer Studio. Microsoft is discontinuing sales of its own G Fortran PowerStation 4.0 to the channel effective April 1, 1997, and is E recommending DIGITAL's Visual Fortran 5.0 as the approved upgrade for - current scientific and engineering customers.   I Microsoft and DIGITAL will ensure a smooth migration path and support for J existing Microsoft Fortran PowerStation customers. Microsoft will continueL to provide current levels of support until Oct. 1, 1997, and subsequent paidI support until April 1, 1998. DIGITAL will provide 90-day warranty support K and post-warranty service options for DIGITAL Visual Fortran 5.0 customers.   D The move enables DIGITAL to extend its line of development tools forK high-performance scientific and engineering computing and enables Microsoft F to continue to focus on corporate- and ISV-oriented development tools,; including the Visual StudioT 97 suite of development tools.   J "DIGITAL's reputation as a leader in quality Fortran compilers, along withL its global distribution capabilities, commitment to high-quality support andI strong technology alliance with Microsoft, was key to our decision," said K Paul Gross, vice president, developer tools at Microsoft. "We are confident B that DIGITAL's proven expertise in the high-performance computing,J scientific and engineering market will benefit the large installed base of* Microsoft Fortran PowerStation customers."  H "Today's announcement is further evidence of the strong alliance betweenL DIGITAL and Microsoft," said Jesse Lipcon, DIGITAL vice president of systemsD product management and development. "DIGITAL Visual Fortran combinesK leadership technologies from DIGITAL and Microsoft in an integrated desktop @ product that is unrivaled in the technical marketplace. With theJ introduction of DIGITAL Visual Fortran, we now offer the most scalable setJ of solutions for the technical marketplace of any vendor in the industry."  1 DIGITAL's Proven Excellence in Fortran Technology   G DIGITAL is a leader in Fortran technology, establishing its VAX Fortran E product as the de facto standard during the 1980s. Today, the company G provides high-quality Fortran compilers for its 64-bit DIGITAL UNIX and B OpenVMST operating systems. In 1995, DIGITAL extended its compilerF technology to the Windows NT-based desktop with the release of DIGITALK Fortran for Windows NT on Alpha systems. The explosive growth in use of the  Windows NT andG Windows 95 operating systems has resulted in increasing demand from the K high-performance, scientific and engineering market for the same technology ( to be available for Intel-based systems.  9 Smooth Migration for Microsoft Fortran PowerStation Users   G Microsoft and DIGITAL have been working closely to ensure that users of K Microsoft Fortran PowerStation can easily upgrade to DIGITAL Visual Fortran I 5.0. The DIGITAL compiler has been enhanced to provide compatibility with J Microsoft Fortran PowerStation 4.0 and to include enhancements proposed inE the ISO/ANSI Fortran 95 language standard. Because it shares the same J integrated development environment, DIGITAL Visual Fortran 5.0 can be usedG with other Microsoft development tools that are integrated in Developer . Studio, an integrated development environment.  H DIGITAL will offer current customers of Microsoft Fortran PowerStation aE low-cost upgrade option to the standard edition kit of DIGITAL Visual K Fortran 5.0. The upgrade price of $360 (U.S.) will be available to users of G Microsoft PowerStation as well as current users of any PC-based Fortran K product from any vendor until Aug. 31, 1997. DIGITAL will provide continued B support and future product enhancements to DIGITAL Visual Fortran.  F DIGITAL also announced today that DIGITAL Visual Fortran, ProfessionalI Edition, will be available later this year. This product will include the H popular Fortran 77 and Fortran 90 IMSL mathematics libraries from Visual
 Numerics Inc.   J DIGITAL Visual Fortran, Standard Edition, for Windows NT for Intel systemsJ and Windows 95 is list priced at $599 (U.S.). Special pricing is availableH for academic versions, in addition to the upgrade price for customers ofL Microsoft and other PC-based Fortran products. For additional information on7 DIGITAL Fortran, please visit the company's Web site at ! (http://www.digital.com/fortran/)   I The DIGITAL Microsoft Alliance for Enterprise Computing, formed in August L 1995, combines Microsoft client/server products with DIGITAL's leadership inK enterprise systems, service, support and systems integration. Customers can K deploy business solutions on the Microsoft Windows and Windows NT operating D systems with assurance of integration into the most complex business, environments (for more information, refer to$ (http://www.alliance.digital.com/)).  I DIGITAL Equipment Corp. is a world leader in open client/server solutions D from personal computing to integrated worldwide information systems.K DIGITAL's scalable Intel and Alpha platforms, storage, networking, software D and services, together with industry-focused solutions from businessK partners, help organizations compete and win in today's global marketplace.   E Founded in 1975, Microsoft (NASDAQ "MSFT") is the worldwide leader in L software for personal computers. The company offers a wide range of productsJ and services for business and personal use, each designed with the missionJ of making it easier and more enjoyable for people to take advantage of the+ full power of personal computing every day.   J DIGITAL, the DIGITAL logo and Open VMS are trademarks of Digital Equipment Corp. F Microsoft, Developer Studio, Windows, Windows NT and Visual Studio areK either registered trademarks or trademarks of Microsoft Corp. in the United  States and/or other countries.  L Other product and company names herein may be trademarks of their respective owners.            These pages offer other info: 2 http://www.hearne.com.au/cgi-bin/product.cgi?id=90D http://www.cs-software.com/software/fortran/compaq/cvf_relnotoc.html( http://www.emsps.com/oldtools/msforv.htm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 13:09:36 -0500( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>2 Subject: Re: Legato vs VMS Backup -- Recover Speed/ Message-ID: <00A3D5E7.1A747E05.1@tachysoft.com>   2 >X-MX-Warning:   Warning -- Invalid "From" header.! >From: none <""arobert\"@(none)">  >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms3 >Subject: Re: Legato vs VMS Backup -- Recover Speed & >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 09:38:19 -0500 >    >  > D >I personally prefer the VMS backup because it is native but it was I >decided that the company should standardize on a single backup solution.  > M >That being said, I found a way to get around the bare-metal restore problem.  > G >I create a DR backup of the main system and applications disks to DLT   >and store it at Iron Mountain.  > J >In the event of a disaster event, the DLT is recalled to Sungard and the ! >basic system is built from that.  > I >Once the Veritas server is built, restoring the remaining volumes using  $ >the NetBackup client is easy to do. > 5 >I've tested this solution and it works like a charm.  >   O Would it work if the legato server(s) was destroyed in the disaster?  You would N not be able to get the remaining volumes until it was repaired.  Or presumably: not be able to resore *any* of the non-vms systems at all.O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== P Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2005 23:14:18 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: More on Tru64, Message-ID: <340maaF44n821U1@individual.net>  , In article <41DAC212.79E174B5@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:H >> Preferring PL/I for an arbitrary purpose is not related to preferringH >> C for that same purpose.  For a purpose like Payroll, Cobol, PL/I andK >> Ada are all equally adept (I claim).  But I am certain someone somewhere # >> has implemented Payroll in C :-)  > P > Interestingly, COBOL is not good to convert a numeric value into text suitableP > to write on cheques, especially not when you need to generate those strings in > more than one language.   C I always found it easy to do.(at least in english). Other languages D would not be a problem of COBOL but of the way some languages mangleD decimal numbers when expressing them as words.  But I'll bet I could= do it easy enough in any of the languages I am familiar with. F (Note: While I haven't done any real COBOL in about 2 decades, I stillI have the utmost confidence in my ability to use it should the opportunity @ ever arise again.  Sometimes, I really miss that  kind of work.)   > M > My second summer job was on a payroll system and I succesfully convinced my O > bosses that they should allow an exception and allow me to write the "convert O > to string" routine in IBM assembler instead of COBOL and it was not difficult  > to convince them.   K I find it hard to believe it was easier in any assembler rather than COBOL. F Unless I am misunderstanding just what it is your really talking about doing here.  :-)   > N > Later on, when on VMS, I had a mixture of COBOL and C routines because thereJ > was stuff which was much easier to do in C than in Cobol. Cobol's reportC > writer feature was much better than what C had to offer (printf).   C I would hardly compare printf to Report Writer.  That would be like & comparing a bicycle wheel to a Hummer.   > M > Each language has its strengths. But should know where a lnaguage is strong M > and where it is weak and make best use of the available tools on a platform M > where there is a standard calling convention that does allow varous modules , > from different languages to work together.  E I agree with this completely and have always been a supporter of "the D right tool for the job".  But I still can't see where the task above1 was easier in any language other than COBOL.  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:47:41 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: More on Tru64B Message-ID: <1104885471.6152cab2b3595e1555ab968b0f2a309d@teranews>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:M > I find it hard to believe it was easier in any assembler rather than COBOL. H > Unless I am misunderstanding just what it is your really talking about > doing here.  :-)  N French language has some elaborate rules about writing numbers and the abilityL to write either french or english text representing the amount on the chequeL required a lot of variable size text which just wasn't very good with COBOL.I Consider the task of adding an S to a word in COBOL, or concatenating two < strings with either a blank or a - separating the two words.  E > I would hardly compare printf to Report Writer.  That would be like ( > comparing a bicycle wheel to a Hummer.  @ Bicycle wheels don't destroy the environment and block roads :-)  K However, C doesn't have a report writer in it, COBOL does.  In fairness, if L one now outputs to postscript, you can use postscript as a report writer andL just dump your raw data from C to be read/formatted by a postscript program.  U Again, it is a question of recognizing the strengths and weaknesses of each language.     F > right tool for the job".  But I still can't see where the task above3 > was easier in any language other than COBOL.  :-)    Try converting 23487 to @ "Twenty three thousand four hundred and eighty seven dollars" or9 "vingt trois mille quatre cent quatre-vingt sept dollars"   J  in COBOL with fixed length strings. The lack of pointers in COBOL and theL lack of a F$EDIT("string with    lots   of  blanks","TRIM") makes assembling text in cobol rather tedious.   L Note that at that shop, ASSEMBLER wasn't yet outlawed since they needed someN of the batch jobs written entirely in assembler for performance reasons. GoingN through their database of adresses to calculate what type of offer to send youI after christmas took about a week of computing on their mainframe at that M time. (early 1980s). When they upgraded to a biggr machine, they were able to ; cut that job down to 1 full day. The database was on tapes.   J With modern languages, the above task is probably trivial (although french$ language rules are still complex :-(   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:59:40 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> K Subject: Re: need help in decoding VAXstation 4000/60 console error message , Message-ID: <oc6dnWpqaJwqnkbcRVn-oQ@igs.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: = > In article <9jFBd.353998$b5.17411840@news3.tin.it>, "-----"  > <-----@-----.--> writes: > = >>> Subject says it all; who can tell me what this means?  In  >>> particular,  >>> " >>> ??  130  10        SCSI   0034 >> >> ??: failure is FATAL  >> 130: SCSI ID 3  >> 10: SCSI controller ID  >> SCSI: mnemonic for SCSI :) # >> 0034: Non-DMA inquiry has failed  >>, >> it seems that (at least) disk 3 is broken > G > Thanks.  After a few power cycles (always leaving the power off for a B > couple of minutes), the VAXstation booted (which it is set to doH > automatically if it can) and the disk is now mounted on all 3 nodes in" > the cluster and is working fine.    C May be a thermal fault.  Have you opened the case and blown all the  accumulated dust away?   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2005 11:19:27 -0800  From: hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com 8 Subject: Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$B Message-ID: <1104866367.832988.35210@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: E > In article <1104825470.751996.158350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,  hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com writes:  > >  > > Dave Froble wrote:# > >> hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com wrote: : > >> > don't have a clue what those structures consist of. > >> > >> > >> A word. > >>3 > > No, a word is not the same as a word structure. ( > > Thanks for giving it a shot, though. > D > Dollars to doughnuts, a "word structure" is a structure consistingG > of exactly one field which is a 16 bit unsigned word in this context.  > E > If you don't have a clue, don't spit on those that you are offered.  > C Whoa, there, now! What part of "thanks" is considered "spitting"? I F simply disagreed with Mr. Froble. Disagreement <> Disrespect. Again, ID thank Mr. Froble for his effort - he could be correct, but I suspectG there's more to it and would like further clarification. It is possible B that it consists of a single field, but the documentation does notF specify exactly what constitutes the structure. Likewise, I appreciate your assistance as well.  @ > For reference, here's the relevant extract from the grey wall: >  > <<begin quote>>  >  > user_equal >  > OpenVMS usage: procedure > type: procedure value  > access: function call  > mechanism: by reference  > E > User-written routine that resolves the sort order when records have 	 duplicate 8 > keys. (This argument is not currently supported by the high-performanceD > Sort/Merge utility.) The user_equal argument is the address of the	 procedure E > value for this user-written routine. If you specify SOR$M_STABLE or A > SOR$M_NODUPS in the options argument, do not use this argument. @ > SORT/MERGE calls the duplicate key routine with five reference > arguments  > ( > ---ADRS1, ADRS2, LENG1, LENG2, CNTX--- >   > corresponding to the addressesA > of the two records that compare equally, the lengths of the two  records that@ > compare equally, and the context longword. The LENG1 and LENG2
 arguments are A > addresses that point to 16-bit word structures that contain the  length > information. >  > <<end quote>>  >  > I take that to mean that > + > ADRS1 is one record contents by reference  > 1 > ADRS2 is the other record contents by reference  > C > LENG1 is a 16 bit word containing the length of the one record by 	 reference  > E > LENG2 is a 16 bit word containing the length of the other record by 	 reference  > B > CNTX is an unininterpreted argument.  The type and mechanism you chooseG > when you pass it in SOR$BEGIN_SORT should match the ones you use when - > you retrieve it in your user equal routine.  >  > 	John Briggs  A I just wonder - if LENG1 and LENG2 are pointers to words with the ? length, why does it say a "word structure containing the length F information" rather than a "word containing the length"? That is why IE suspect there's more to it than that. Unless it has to be a structure  for some obscure VMS reason.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2005 11:46:30 -0800  From: hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com 8 Subject: Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$C Message-ID: <1104867989.968799.157870@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   B Cool! The structure wrapper must be needed by VMS for some reason,C then. I was just worried that it was something significant that was G glossed over in the docs. Well, that makes it a lot easier for me!  I'm E very pleased to have my fears proved groundless. Thank you very much!   A A couple of other questions come to mind, with passing pointers - = first, since ADRS1 and ADRS2 are pointers to my records, if I C dereference them and modify non-key fields in them in my user_equal F routine, it would indeed change the actual record, correct? I know theG answer in C, but am not sure in BASIC, i.e., is my function accessing a F pointer to the actual record, as does C, or is it a pointer to a local3 copy of the record? The latter doesn't seem likely.   B And if I can, would doing so make the sort choke? I don't see why,F because I'm not changing keys, but you never know. I'll check this out empirically.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:51:53 -0500( From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com>8 Subject: Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$, Message-ID: <41db0214$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  * <hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com> wrote in message< news:1104866367.832988.35210@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: G > > If you don't have a clue, don't spit on those that you are offered.  > > C > Whoa, there, now! What part of "thanks" is considered "spitting"?   K I don't want to put oil on a fire, but just in the fyi department, IMHO the I reply to mr Froble's helpful attempt came accross unpleasantly. Just tone  thing perhaps.  @ It was not clear to me whether your function was working or not.: Does it give an error (which)? Behave unexpectantly (how)?  G >> I have to pass the routine by reference, so it has to be an external  routine to use LOC  E I've seen a few problems in the past where folks ended up calling the H routine and passing the result instead of the address. But your solutionF should do it, allthough I believe that after the  EXTERNAL LONG you noJ longer need to good through the LOC construct. Just pass it. Also, you areH not using some prototype defintion for SOR$BEGIN_SORT are you? I seem toB recall an problem with SMG specifying `by value' for the broadcastG ast-routine address (routine address by value = procedure entry mask by B reference). You could fix that by declaring EXTERNAL LONG CONSTANTG your-message-function, as that would get rid of one `indirection level'   I I assume you tried a simple test with few record, printing the user_equal  argument addresses and values?  K BASIC would not be my first choice of language to do this compare function, J even if woudl be the language of choice for the main program. Just look atC BAS/LIS/MACH output. Too much overhead for a quick and often called I procedure. Check out: OPTION INACTIVE=SETUP to reduce the overhead. There F are restrictions though. Form an old 1987 note: "You can't use dynamicK strings, WHEN blocks, or GRAPHIC's statements. Stack locals are OK.  If you I have to use a stack array, you had better stick it in a RECORD structure; . otherwise, stick it in a COMMON or MAP psect."  L Finally, I would think that changing the date of the record addresses passed! is unsupported and unpredictable. F Like you wrote, just try it and see if you like the results, but don't) complain if it ever breaks in the future. K The addresses might be directly (unlikely) in a protected RMS buffer (after  a $GET with RAB$V_LOC option).   Hope this help some, Hein.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2005 14:59:11 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.org8 Subject: Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$3 Message-ID: <vvntzrSCMOW3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <1104866367.832988.35210@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com writes: > ! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: F >> In article <1104825470.751996.158350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,, >> ADRS1 is one record contents by reference >>2 >> ADRS2 is the other record contents by reference >>D >> LENG1 is a 16 bit word containing the length of the one record by > reference  >>F >> LENG2 is a 16 bit word containing the length of the other record by > reference  >>C >> CNTX is an unininterpreted argument.  The type and mechanism you  > chooseH >> when you pass it in SOR$BEGIN_SORT should match the ones you use when. >> you retrieve it in your user equal routine. >> > C > I just wonder - if LENG1 and LENG2 are pointers to words with the A > length, why does it say a "word structure containing the length H > information" rather than a "word containing the length"? That is why IG > suspect there's more to it than that. Unless it has to be a structure  > for some obscure VMS reason.  A I don't like the wording either.  But since I know the quality to G expect from the VMS documentation team and I know the calling interface E to expect from VMS engineers, I was able to read past the obfuscation , and guess correctly at the actual interface.  ? As I wrote previously, I have verified that LENG1 and LENG2 are A actually 16 bit words.  (Not pointers to 16 bit words.  That's an D example of sub-optimal VMS documentation.  You can have a pointer to@ a word by value.  Or a word by reference.  Those two notions areF equivalent.  But a pointer to a word by reference is a double indirectD and that's not how the SOR$xxx calls are actually implemented.  Yes,B the thing on the argument list is a pointer to a word.  But if you? describe it that way then also saying that it is "by reference" 
 is wrong).  E The idiots writing VMS documentation need to establish a firmer grasp G of what "mechanism" means and decide whether they are going to document G the thing that appears in the argument list or the thing that is passed  using the argument list.  ? There's no way to distinguish between a pointer to a word and a @ pointer to a structure containing a word.  Both involve the sameB bits in memory.  There's no magic to VMS in that regard.  At leastB not when passing things by reference.  When passing by descriptor,2 there might plausibly be a distinction to be made.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2005 15:09:21 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.org8 Subject: Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$3 Message-ID: <WvQeRMUXBRDx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <1104867989.968799.157870@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com writes: D > Cool! The structure wrapper must be needed by VMS for some reason,E > then. I was just worried that it was something significant that was I > glossed over in the docs. Well, that makes it a lot easier for me!  I'm G > very pleased to have my fears proved groundless. Thank you very much!  > C > A couple of other questions come to mind, with passing pointers - ? > first, since ADRS1 and ADRS2 are pointers to my records, if I E > dereference them and modify non-key fields in them in my user_equal = > routine, it would indeed change the actual record, correct?   C I think that would be invoking undefined behavior.  There is no way A to know whether you are being handed an actual record or merely a 
 copy thereof.    > I know theI > answer in C, but am not sure in BASIC, i.e., is my function accessing a H > pointer to the actual record, as does C, or is it a pointer to a local5 > copy of the record? The latter doesn't seem likely.   E Since the record is being passed by reference, you know that you will C be modifying storage owned by the caller.  But what the caller will 0 do with that modified storage is not documented.  D It seems likely that the caller will, in fact, pass you a pointer toE his "live" copy of the record and that changes you make will actually C make it to the output file.  Unless, of course, you are using a tag 4 sort, in which case the behavior might be different.  D > And if I can, would doing so make the sort choke? I don't see why,H > because I'm not changing keys, but you never know. I'll check this out > empirically.  E The empirical approach is a good choice.  Just beware of trusting the J results.  Undocumented and unsupported behavior can change without notice.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2005 14:44:45 -0800  From: hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com 8 Subject: Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$C Message-ID: <1104878684.989285.278280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hein wrote: D > I don't want to put oil on a fire, but just in the fyi department, IMHO theF > reply to mr Froble's helpful attempt came accross unpleasantly. Just tone > thing perhaps. > B Oh, my, it certainly wasn't intended that way. My apologies to Mr.D Froble if he felt it did, and to anyone else who was offended on his behalf. E It does help to bear in mind, though, that in text, in the absence of F emotional-clue words tone is always in the eye of the beholder. I findE it most useful to assume everyone has good intentions unless they are F actively spewing insults. Sure, that's not always true, but there's no@ harm in it. At any rate, I'll do my best to write less ambiguous
 responses.  B > It was not clear to me whether your function was working or not.< > Does it give an error (which)? Behave unexpectantly (how)? > B I haven't run the function yet, I was in the process of writing itC yesterday, and just needed syntax verification. I will be running a A prototype today (don't have records yet for the actual function), ? employing the helpful information everyone has kindly provided.   @ > >> I have to pass the routine by reference, so it has to be an external > routine to use LOC > G > I've seen a few problems in the past where folks ended up calling the A > routine and passing the result instead of the address. But your  solutionE > should do it, allthough I believe that after the  EXTERNAL LONG you  no> > longer need to good through the LOC construct. Just pass it.   I'll try that.   > Also, you are G > not using some prototype defintion for SOR$BEGIN_SORT are you? I seem  toD > recall an problem with SMG specifying `by value' for the broadcastF > ast-routine address (routine address by value = procedure entry mask byD > reference). You could fix that by declaring EXTERNAL LONG CONSTANTB > your-message-function, as that would get rid of one `indirection level' > @ > I assume you tried a simple test with few record, printing the
 user_equal  > argument addresses and values? > E I hadn't tried using user-equal before, but Mr. Briggs' example shows  values. $ I'll write out addresses when I run.  C > BASIC would not be my first choice of language to do this compare 	 function, D > even if woudl be the language of choice for the main program. Just look at E > BAS/LIS/MACH output. Too much overhead for a quick and often called E > procedure. Check out: OPTION INACTIVE=SETUP to reduce the overhead.  There @ > are restrictions though. Form an old 1987 note: "You can't use dynamic E > strings, WHEN blocks, or GRAPHIC's statements. Stack locals are OK.  If you@ > have to use a stack array, you had better stick it in a RECORD
 structure;0 > otherwise, stick it in a COMMON or MAP psect." > F Alas, BASIC isn't my first choice, either, but I am constrained by the resources available.  G > Finally, I would think that changing the date of the record addresses  passed# > is unsupported and unpredictable. B > Like you wrote, just try it and see if you like the results, but don't + > complain if it ever breaks in the future. F > The addresses might be directly (unlikely) in a protected RMS buffer (after  > a $GET with RAB$V_LOC option). > D I am concerned about that. It'll be interesting to see what it does. > Hope this help some, > Hein.    It has, thanks!  Cheryl   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2005 14:44:50 -0800  From: hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com 8 Subject: Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$B Message-ID: <1104878689.992537.66920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Hein wrote: D > I don't want to put oil on a fire, but just in the fyi department, IMHO theF > reply to mr Froble's helpful attempt came accross unpleasantly. Just tone > thing perhaps. > B Oh, my, it certainly wasn't intended that way. My apologies to Mr.D Froble if he felt it did, and to anyone else who was offended on his behalf. E It does help to bear in mind, though, that in text, in the absence of F emotional-clue words tone is always in the eye of the beholder. I findE it most useful to assume everyone has good intentions unless they are F actively spewing insults. Sure, that's not always true, but there's no@ harm in it. At any rate, I'll do my best to write less ambiguous
 responses.  B > It was not clear to me whether your function was working or not.< > Does it give an error (which)? Behave unexpectantly (how)? > B I haven't run the function yet, I was in the process of writing itC yesterday, and just needed syntax verification. I will be running a A prototype today (don't have records yet for the actual function), ? employing the helpful information everyone has kindly provided.   @ > >> I have to pass the routine by reference, so it has to be an external > routine to use LOC > G > I've seen a few problems in the past where folks ended up calling the A > routine and passing the result instead of the address. But your  solutionE > should do it, allthough I believe that after the  EXTERNAL LONG you  no> > longer need to good through the LOC construct. Just pass it.   I'll try that.   > Also, you are G > not using some prototype defintion for SOR$BEGIN_SORT are you? I seem  toD > recall an problem with SMG specifying `by value' for the broadcastF > ast-routine address (routine address by value = procedure entry mask byD > reference). You could fix that by declaring EXTERNAL LONG CONSTANTB > your-message-function, as that would get rid of one `indirection level' > @ > I assume you tried a simple test with few record, printing the
 user_equal  > argument addresses and values? > E I hadn't tried using user-equal before, but Mr. Briggs' example shows  values. $ I'll write out addresses when I run.  C > BASIC would not be my first choice of language to do this compare 	 function, D > even if woudl be the language of choice for the main program. Just look at E > BAS/LIS/MACH output. Too much overhead for a quick and often called E > procedure. Check out: OPTION INACTIVE=SETUP to reduce the overhead.  There @ > are restrictions though. Form an old 1987 note: "You can't use dynamic E > strings, WHEN blocks, or GRAPHIC's statements. Stack locals are OK.  If you@ > have to use a stack array, you had better stick it in a RECORD
 structure;0 > otherwise, stick it in a COMMON or MAP psect." > F Alas, BASIC isn't my first choice, either, but I am constrained by the resources available.  G > Finally, I would think that changing the date of the record addresses  passed# > is unsupported and unpredictable. B > Like you wrote, just try it and see if you like the results, but don't + > complain if it ever breaks in the future. F > The addresses might be directly (unlikely) in a protected RMS buffer (after  > a $GET with RAB$V_LOC option). > D I am concerned about that. It'll be interesting to see what it does. > Hope this help some, > Hein.    It has, thanks!  Cheryl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:43:20 -0500) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 8 Subject: Re: Need help with user-written routine in SOR$; Message-ID: <PfKCd.33989$P%3.1377316@news20.bellglobal.com>   + <hoefelmeyer@hotmail.com> wrote in message  = news:1104809219.123603.315000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... 4 > Hi, everyone, I hope someone can help with this... >  > OS: OpenVMS 7.3  > System: Alpha  > Language: BASIC  > I > I'm trying to write a user-written routine for the user_equal parameter G > in SOR$BEGIN_SORT. I have to pass the routine by reference, so it has B > to be an external routine to use LOC. Also, Sort/merge calls theF > routine with 5 reference arguments ADRS1, ADRS2, LENG1, LENG2, CNTX,I > which are the addresses of the two records to compare, pointers to word H > structures containing length information, and the context longword. InI > the user-written routine, I want to compare a non-sort-key field of the C > two records and select which of the two to discard based on those 7 > values. I will always keep one and discard the other.  > % > Here's what I think I need to do --  >  > Main module: > ... $ > EXTERNAL LONG FUNCTION FN_SORT_EQ% > ...  > SORT_EQ% = LOC(FN_SORT_EQ%)  > ... ? > STATUS% = SOR$BEGIN_SORT(SORT.BUF,LRL%,,,,SORT_EQ%,,SRTTYPE%)  > ...  >  > External function module: F > FUNCTION LONG FN_SORT_EQ% (STRING REC_1 BY REF, STRING REC_2 BY REF,1 > WORD LEN_1 BY REF, WORD LEN_2 BY REF, LONG CTX) * > EXTERNAL WORD SOR$_DELETE1, SOR$_DELETE2; > IF SEG$(REC_1, 350%, 358%) < SEG$(REC_2, 350%, 358%) THEN  > FN_SORT_EQ% = SOR$_DELETE1 > ELSE > FN_SORT_EQ% = SOR$_DELETE2 > END IF > END FUNCTION > H > The outcome I wish is that if the REC_1 field < the REC_2 field, REC_1- > is discarded, otherwise REC_2 is discarded.  > D > Is this correct? I think I'm missing something (or perhaps severalH > things). The 3rd and 4th arguments passed to the function are supposedH > to be pointers to word structures containing length information, but II > don't have a clue what those structures consist of. I don't really care G > what's in them because I don't need them - the records I am comparing G > will always be the same length, but I'm not certain if I can just not D > declare them and they would be ignored. Is this even close or am I+ > completely misunderstanding the VMS docs?  >  > Thanks in advance, > Cheryl > / I have posted a workable solution for you here: = http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/demo_vms/basic-sort-demo.zip ( hopefully this is something you can use.    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html     ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2005 13:07:04 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Need UNIX clarification3 Message-ID: <IXnXMoXWlEcG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <Dz$09QlGW2Mu@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:   > L > IE: VMS has been multitasking from day 1, but was not multi-threaded until > later.  L    You've confused multi-threaded application support within the kernel withF    multi-threaded kernels.  The VMS kernel was multi-threaded from dayF    1, and via ASTs it provided multi-threaded application support fromD    day 1.  What it did not provide is the current day multi-threadedF    application designs such as POSIX threads.  That kind of capabilityF    and support for it was first seen within, and specific too, the Ada    run time environment.        ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jan 2005 13:09:12 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: Need UNIX clarification3 Message-ID: <iRc0QVlFA9JJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <41DABF71.416894DD@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:I >>    The number of CPUs is also irrelavent.  VMS was multi-threaded from J >>    day one, on single CPU VAX 11/780 so that it could do things the old+ >>    single threaded UNIX kernels can not.   @ > Any specific examples of what it could do that Unix couldn't ?  ;     Deterministic real-time support, especially as reguards D     interrupt to task and return timing.  Modern multi-threaded UNIXD     still have trouble with this, it's not something their end users     are asking for a lot.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:58:23 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 5 Subject: Re: SCSI ON A VAX 4000/500 - WHAT DO I NEED? 2 Message-ID: <PrDCd.5069$5o6.1376@news.cpqcorp.net>  a In article <E76dnckky6ap8EncRVn-ug@adelphia.com>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes:  :[followups set to comp.os.vms]  :Michael Kukat wrote:  :>  R :> Sure, CD-ROM and TK50Z and stuff works. It's made for this and supported by theO :> firmware. It even might be the firmware has no limitations in this place and N :> can boot from hard disks here. But VMS doesn't support this controller as aQ :> hard disk controller. Pure political stuff. It has "just" 128KB buffer, and is R :> not so intelligent like MSCP adapters, that's the reason why DEC sold this justQ :> as an interface for CD-ROMs and tapes. I didn't get any information about this P :> thing, otherwise i would have written a driver for NetBSD for it :) But in myQ :> research i heard about the very bad implementation of this board. IIRC, it was G :> something with the SCSI bus itself, no so much the controller logic.  : G :As the KZQSA is an "ancient" adapter, I do not know the exact reasons  . :that support is limited to CD-ROMs and Tapes. : J :It may be that it was never tested on magnetic disks, or that one of the J :tests with then supported magnetic disks failed, and there was no way to  :make it work.    G   The KZQSA isn't expected to operate reliably with SCSI configuratious E   outside those that were explicitly supported.  Sometimes it worked,    and sometimes it didn't.  K   We traditionally don't usually describe why we don't support a particular F   unsupported configuration, nor specifically detailing what was wrongI   (if we tested it), as that can obviously approach a support statement.  G   We can also obviously choose not to support a configuration for other F   reasons -- though in this particular case, the reason was technical.  G   While Michael Kukat has apparently had this configuration work within H   those configuration(s) tested, I've had the KZQSA lock up on me.  (ForJ   better or worse, all ancient SCSI configurations are somewhat unstable.)  G   The HSD05 or similar is the usual and official solution for SCSI on a G   Q-bus configuration, and there are (or once were) various third-party G   SCSI Q-bus controllers available.  The series of MicroVAX referenced  9   does have DSSI, so DSSI to SCSI adapters are available.   F   An alternative fix is to find and replace the VAX 4000 series systemF   with a MicroVAX or VAXstation series system with native SCSI -- thisH   might be easier, and it might even be cheaper.  (This assumes that theE   Q-bus is not being used for an "unusual" Q-bus adapter, of course.)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:32:30 +1300 6 From: Martin Hunt <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz> Subject: TCP/IP mailing problem 8 Message-ID: <h7nmt0toq7ub8cv03v8fmr08hp9vu9nt4n@4ax.com>  E VMS V7.3 on VAX, TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V5.3 - ECO 2   > Well, the emails go out, but the "To:" address is being partly: translated to upper case, which some recipients object to.   For example:   $ Mail nl: "abc@w.x.y"  E When it gets to the recipient, the address appears as ABC@x.y.z (only , the first part is translated to upper case).  - If I have a forwarding address set up, as in:   ! MAIL> set forward abc "abc@w.x.y"   F and send to abc, the mail gets forwarded without translating the email address.  D How do I retain the correct case of the email address (should be all@ lower case), without setting up a forwarding address for all the addresses anyone wants to use?   ---  Martin Hunt  Systems Administrator  Fairfax New Zealand Limited 
 Wellington New Zealand    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 07:28:23 +0100 " From: labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr># Subject: Re: TCP/IP mailing problem 7 Message-ID: <41db899d$0$27157$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>    Martin Hunt a crit : G > VMS V7.3 on VAX, TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V5.3 - ECO 2  > @ > Well, the emails go out, but the "To:" address is being partly< > translated to upper case, which some recipients object to. >  > For example: >  > $ Mail nl: "abc@w.x.y"  : apply the last Tcpip Eco, and try to triple the quotes, so   $ Mail nl: """abc@w.x.y"""   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:22:14 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) $ Subject: Re: VMS and digital cameras2 Message-ID: <aODCd.5071$5o6.1386@news.cpqcorp.net>  _ In article <llcBd.5015$8%1.1273@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: K :Hmmm.  I have a digital camera, and I have a DS10 that can see a HD.  I'll K :have to see if it works (and if it doesn't, maybe Forrest can hack it ;-).  :That would be cool.  H   I know of no current plans to officially support these configurations,G   and all of the code necessary is not available within V8.2 or earlier H   releases -- as Forrest says in another reply, please let Sue SkonetskiC   and Mark Gorham know if this addition is a product requirement.     G   We have had various informal discussions among various of the OpenVMS     engineers involved, of course.  7 :> USB is standard, as well as the DOS FAT disk format.   E   Thanks for the laugh!  :-)  But seriously, the world is filled with 9   buggy USB devices, and with buggy FAT implementations.    G   USB is, after all, little more than a way to send SCSI packets over a F   hot-pluggable serial bus, and we all know how much "fun" traditional&   (and non-hot-pluggable) SCSI can be.  G   Most cameras will be using FAT16 or FAT28 (the latter format is often I   somewjat confusingly refered to as FAT32 :-), and many of the FAT tools I   around are limited to FAT12; to the floppy-sized volumes.  Cameras tend    to use either FAT16 or FAT28.   K   How we might know (any of) this is left to the imagination of the reader.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:03:28 -0500# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: VMS trialware CD , Message-ID: <k9idnVs4MJQxj0bcRVn-sg@igs.net>  H Let's presume for a moment that VMS is actually going to get released on9 Itanic and that Itanic is going to be around for a while.   K There have been a number of calls for a low-cost Itanic box to be available 3 for VMS use.  Let's even suppose that will be true.   I As I had mentioned some time ago, why isn't/won't there be a DVD with the  following bits of software.....    OpenVMS  Oracle Classic Rdb  some compilers Communigate Pro 
 Apache / CSWS 
 WASD & others  Multinet etc...  L shrink-wrapped to the cover of every printed copy of Datamation, InformationJ Week, eWeek, Computerworld etc....that is addressed to 'C'-level execs andG anyone who has the word 'manager' in their address label info for those H publications to coincide with the launch of VMS on the good ship Itanic?  G Magazines can do that - target their readership in a variety of ways by J mining the subscriber info by sector, sales, title, employee count, etc...  H Packaged with the DVD is a 'why VMS is good for your corporate computingL health' brochure and an 800 number to call to get 6-month trial licence paksJ for the software on the DVD's. And some pointers to the ITRC, comp.os.vms,: Encompass, and openvms.org support/information mechanisms.    K Seems logical - a few hundred thousand bucks to target people - hell I know H guys who spend more than that on fishing gear to try and match wits with$ fish. But I don't expect it from HP.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 23:16:52 +0100 " From: labadie <labadie_g@decus.fr> Subject: Re: VMS trialware CD 7 Message-ID: <41db166e$0$27163$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>    John Smith a crit :J > Let's presume for a moment that VMS is actually going to get released on; > Itanic and that Itanic is going to be around for a while.  > M > There have been a number of calls for a low-cost Itanic box to be available 5 > for VMS use.  Let's even suppose that will be true.  > K > As I had mentioned some time ago, why isn't/won't there be a DVD with the ! > following bits of software.....  > 	 > OpenVMS  > Oracle Classic > Rdb  > some compilers > Communigate Pro  > Apache / CSWS  > WASD & others 
 > Multinet > etc...  
   interesting     J2EE being increasingly popular,  8 Jonas and Jboss are available, as the language Ruby, too   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 20:59:58 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>< Subject: Re: What's the state of USB 2.0 support in VMS 8.2?+ Message-ID: <41DB582E.F25D9A69@comcast.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > X > In article <41da9747@news.deckpoint.ch>, Robert Boers <r_boers@softresint.com> writes: > L > > For tapes with CHARON-VAX on a laptop, you can use a PCMCIA SCSI adapterH > > with e.g. a TKZ50. The only disadvantage is that the TKZ50 is bigger > > than the laptop... > G > I thought a TKZ50 was something other than SCSI and a TKZ30 was SCSI.   @ As someone else noted, TK50Z-GA is "real" SCSI. It was sold in a" MicroVAX-2000 style external case.  E TZ30 is a half-height, 5-1/2 inch form factor component that could be F installed in a portable case, I suppose, through a bit of chicanery. I7 have a MicroVAX-3100 "parts" machine with a TZ30 in it.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:01:41 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>< Subject: Re: What's the state of USB 2.0 support in VMS 8.2?+ Message-ID: <41DB5895.441117D3@comcast.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > X > In article <41da97f8@news.deckpoint.ch>, Robert Boers <r_boers@softresint.com> writes: > > JF Mezei wrote:  > >> Re: USB drives on VMS > >>Q > >> Forget Itanium. I want USB on my all mighty Microvax II.  Backing up 10 gigs , > >> on TK50s takes more than a year :-) ;-) > > E > > FYI, USB memory sticks can be used as ODS-2 formatted drives with > > > CHARON-VAX. VMS nicely recognizes them as removable media. >  > Is that true even on Alpha ?  @ That would likely depend on the level of USB support provided by OpenVMS-Alpha.  H (That's a hint, by the way, for the I64 team: strong USB support will be> a big selling point, considering these devices and their kin.)   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.009 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     turn itC into a USA-bashing fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just starto making lewd posts.  $ 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  E Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have E a visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is aeB happier, better, more successful version of their country and they> can't stand it.  Some of JF's favorite troll bait is "the BushC regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans areoB brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.  # 7.  What about his sexual trolling?c  E Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.e> Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women'sA genitalia, sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (ofs  course) ... the list is endless.   8.  Circumcision???e  F Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes< to insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then.C Apparently, JF was traumatized as a child because his parents, poor4B Hungarian immigrants to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he wasB born, as is the custom in most of the world.  Growing up in Canada@ where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, he was? psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could heu@ arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades ofE circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of ai@ free willy.  His main argument is how much better 