0 INFO-VAX	Sun, 16 Jan 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 32      Contents:
 Free Software  HP talk about VMS  J F kooks out again  Next Gen Fabs & Itanium  Re: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium  Re: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium ! Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium emulator? ! Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium emulator? 1 Re: Source Listings Kit (was: vms versus solaris) 1 Re: Source Listings Kit (was: vms versus solaris)  Re: TCP/IP on OpenVMS 7.3  Re: TCP/IP on OpenVMS 7.3  Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2005 00:01:21 -0800 From: Spam2@Sharewareisland.com  Subject: Free SoftwareC Message-ID: <1105862481.708637.303750@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   , Tons of Free Software if u need Freeware try http://www.FreewareTown.com    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2005 09:36:50 -0800  From: "mas" <mas769@hotmail.com> Subject: HP talk about VMSC Message-ID: <1105897009.977915.232740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    No, really ;-).   3 http://www.interex.com/hpworldnews/hpw501/news3.jsp  p.s. sorry if already posted.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2005 13:11:06 -00003 From: There You Go Again J F <jf@kooksoutagain.com>  Subject: J F kooks out again6 Message-ID: <V9UQUDPQ38367.7689351852@si93kru1.poster>  \ Nine foaming-at-the-mouth anti-USA rants (and counting) in a space of about two short hours.  " JF, are you off your meds again???  J It is obvious that your hatred of the United States is rooted in jealousy.H You are rabid in your attacks against the USA yet you can't seem to talk/ or think about anything else.  It consumes you.   S Why are you so obsessed with the USA?  You don't live there, you don't travel there R (you don't seem to travel anywhere), yet you spend your entire waking life readingN about the USA, watching American television from across the border, and raving7 like a lunatic against the USA and all things American.   M Have you considered suicide?  Seriously, it would put you out of your misery.    http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?as_q=bush&safe=images&as_ugroup=rec.travel.air&as_uauthors=nobody&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=31&as_maxm=12&as_maxy=2005&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en    http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?as_q=bush&safe=images&as_ugroup=rec.travel.air&as_uauthors=nobody&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=31&as_maxm=12&as_maxy=2005&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en    http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?as_q=usa&safe=images&as_uauthors=jf%20mezei&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=31&as_maxm=12&as_maxy=2005&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en    http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?as_q=bush&safe=images&as_uauthors=jf%20mezei&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=31&as_maxm=12&as_maxy=2005&as_scoring=d&lr=&num=100&hl=en   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 05:22:50 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium( Message-ID: <opsko54cxazgicya@hyrrokkin>  I The article in the URL below casts some light on the expected costs for    nextK generation fabs.  They also point out that very few will be able to ante up K to play.  IBM, Intel, AMD and maybe a few others will certainly be players. @ Where does that leave Itanium given Intel's focus on 64 bit x86?  M http://www.siliconstrategies.com/article/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=57701367    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2005 10:43:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) $ Subject: Re: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium3 Message-ID: <ExxdxmH8d6t9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   N In article <opsko54cxazgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:K > The article in the URL below casts some light on the expected costs for     E That is no article, just a request for one to register for an account B to read articles.  Please include a warning rather than suggesting& folks visit such pages with no effect.   > nextM > generation fabs.  They also point out that very few will be able to ante up M > to play.  IBM, Intel, AMD and maybe a few others will certainly be players. B > Where does that leave Itanium given Intel's focus on 64 bit x86? > O > http://www.siliconstrategies.com/article/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=57701367   E _Without_ having read the hidden article, let me say that the cost of C a FAB is the cost of a FAB.  The per-chip-type cost is minimal when E compared to the per-process cost of the FAB.  Consider that DEC built F a FAB in Hudson Massachusetts to build Alphas and then used the excess: FAB capacity to build StrongARM, a totally different chip.  B So if one presumes a FAB devoted to new high speed 386 processors,C running some Itaniums through some of the time is not a significant A burden on the facility.  Presuming the revenue from an Itanium is B not significantly less than that from a 386, there is no financial' penalty of using the FAB for that size.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 09:24:18 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: Re: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium( Message-ID: <opskphasvzzgicya@hyrrokkin>  H On 16 Jan 2005 10:43:44 -0600, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net>   wrote:  J > In article <opsko54cxazgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  	 > writes: J >> The article in the URL below casts some light on the expected costs for > G > That is no article, just a request for one to register for an account D > to read articles.  Please include a warning rather than suggesting( > folks visit such pages with no effect.   Sorry about that. 4 Boeing 737 is cheaper than immersion litho for 45-nm  & Can chip makers afford the 45-nm node?   By Mark LaPedus  Silicon Strategies 01/14/2005, 11:26 AM ET 	  	     	    	   M HALF MOON BAY, Calif. — During the Industry Strategy Symposium (ISS) here   E this week, a panel discussion debated the monumental task of moving   D towards the 45-nm node. But panelists forgot to address a critical  ' question: Can any chip maker afford it?    The answer: Only a few.   ? To put it in perspective, many leading-edge integrated device   J manufacturers (IDMs) are expected to insert 193-nm immersion lithography  A tools at the 45-nm node, which is slated for the 2007 time frame.   M Each immersion lithography tool is projected to cost $20-to-$30 million —   I or more. In comparison, a 737 commercial airplane from Boeing Co. costs   K $23 million each today, said Risto Puhakka, an analyst with VLSI Research    Inc. (Santa Clara, Calif.).   K "You can buy one 737 airplane (for the cost of immersion)," Puhakka said.   G (The newer 737 planes from Boeing range from $44-to-$74 million each,   J according to the company. One auction site listed an older 737-300 model  M  from between $38.5-to-$44.5 million each, while Aircraftbrowser.com listed   : a 1989 version of the 737-300 for as low as $7.8 million.)  I Meanwhile, besides soaring lithography-tool costs, next-generation fabs   D and process technology prices are expected to be astronomical. For  L example, a new 300-mm fab for the 45-nm node will cost $3-to-$3.5 billion,  ? said Jim Feldhan, president of Semico Research Corp. (Phoenix).   F Today, it costs some $50-to-$100 million to research and develop the  L process-technology alone. But the price tag is expected to climb when chip  ? makers develop their 45-nm technologies, according to analysts.   L There are other huge and monumental R&D issues as well. Chip scaling could  I hit the wall at the 45-nm node unless the industry can come up with new   G and faster breakthroughs in materials, especially for the high-k gate    stack.  L "We have to do it better than we have been," said Bill Siegle, senior vice  A president and chief technologist at Advanced Micro Devices Inc.   . (Sunnyvale, Calif.), in a presentation at ISS.  K Siegle indicated that chip makers must narrow their options for materials   G at the 45-nm node. There are no less than a dozen materials vying for   K dominance in high-k gate stacks, metal gates, low-k dielectrics and other    elements of the transistor.   / "I hope the list will become shorter," he said.   J Semiconductor-equipment R&D is a separate matter. Vendors are developing  L tools that are extendable for three process nodes. Some even claim to have  % machines that support the 45-nm node.   L Still, there are plenty of gaps in terms of tool development, leaving some  F to ask a critical question. "Who is going to fund this?" asked Ashok  G Sinha, senior vice president and general manager for the etch unit at   - Applied Materials Inc. (Santa Clara, Calif.).   I Chip and equipment makers must invest billions of dollars for the 45-nm   G node right now, but the "return-on-investment is three years down the   H road," Sinha said. With no signs of a return-on-investment in the near  A term, the Applied executive said the industry is heading down a    "lose-lose" path.   J And it isn't expected to get any easier. "Beyond the 45-nm node, we need  L another breakthrough," said Ki-Nam Kim, senior vice president and director  G of the advanced technology department at Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd.    (Seoul). >  >> next H >> generation fabs.  They also point out that very few will be able to  
 >> ante upG >> to play.  IBM, Intel, AMD and maybe a few others will certainly be    >> players. C >> Where does that leave Itanium given Intel's focus on 64 bit x86?  >>P >> http://www.siliconstrategies.com/article/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=57701367 > G > _Without_ having read the hidden article, let me say that the cost of E > a FAB is the cost of a FAB.  The per-chip-type cost is minimal when G > compared to the per-process cost of the FAB.  Consider that DEC built H > a FAB in Hudson Massachusetts to build Alphas and then used the excess< > FAB capacity to build StrongARM, a totally different chip. > D > So if one presumes a FAB devoted to new high speed 386 processors,E > running some Itaniums through some of the time is not a significant C > burden on the facility.  Presuming the revenue from an Itanium is D > not significantly less than that from a 386, there is no financial) > penalty of using the FAB for that size.   I True, but since Intel has cooled to the Itanium, and they only have a 3    yearJ contractual obligation to HP, one might reasonably ask, what happens then.H Given the cost of the fab, if they have a captive customer it might be   tempting3 to recoup some of the capital investment from them.        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2005 10:31:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium emulator?3 Message-ID: <gfBjMm5cT8vt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <w3kGd.211130$Np3.8906901@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Marco" <marco@Z.nbnet.nb.ca> writes:K > Is there some kind of Intel x86 Itanium emulator for running OpenVMS 8.2?  > C > Seems my ISP has expired articles beyond December 30th, 2004, and C > I can't seem to find the right combo of words to find anything at  > www.deja.com.    I would suggest trying Google.  : But certainly the bit about 8.2 is irrelevant to a search.) Hardware emulation is hardware emulation.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2005 10:36:34 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium emulator?3 Message-ID: <u5SBjI7qRBQM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <gfBjMm5cT8vt@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: f > In article <w3kGd.211130$Np3.8906901@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Marco" <marco@Z.nbnet.nb.ca> writes:L >> Is there some kind of Intel x86 Itanium emulator for running OpenVMS 8.2? >>  D >> Seems my ISP has expired articles beyond December 30th, 2004, andD >> I can't seem to find the right combo of words to find anything at >> www.deja.com. >   > I would suggest trying Google. > < > But certainly the bit about 8.2 is irrelevant to a search.+ > Hardware emulation is hardware emulation.   - Oh, I also notice you are specifying Itanium.    Why is that a requirement ?   I If the hardware is emulated, why do you care what emulation is involved ?   F The major difference between Alpha and Itanium, for instance, is speedD and cost of the hardware.  Neither of those would show up through an	 emulator.   D Why is VAX emulation inadequate for you?  (Yes, somebody else in theE newsgroup might have a reason, but I am asking about Marco's reason.)    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2005 10:25:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) : Subject: Re: Source Listings Kit (was: vms versus solaris)3 Message-ID: <3K2KX83ug0Cd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   N In article <opsko6iytdzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:F > On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:25:53 GMT, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote: > M >> While VMS is not 'open source' in the sense of letting anyone poke their   
 >> fingersC >> into the code almost all of the source code of VMS is open for    >> inspection. > I > I once inquired of DSPP how to get the source listings and they did not   E Although the main offering of DSPP is half a service (subscription to G new version CDROMs), it is their own service.  For general HP products, G DSPP only sells "products", which inside the company follow a different  bureacracy from "services".   C This is making it _very_ difficult for me to renew this year, since A BusinessLink sometime in the last 9 months stopped allowing order 
 placement.  ; > know.  Is it available gratis to ISV's?  If not, why not?   E As we have seen with Posix support on VAX, a major maintenance burden G that is not part of the base operating system is liable to be cancelled 4 if there is no way to measure the level of interest.  J The Source Listings Kit is of such low volume that at the last DECUS (sic)J symposium where its continued existance was in peril there were fewer than9 six customers who showed up at the meeting to discuss it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:46:48 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG: Subject: Re: Source Listings Kit (was: vms versus solaris)0 Message-ID: <00A3DF49.86A9D6BE@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <3K2KX83ug0Cd@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: O >In article <opsko6iytdzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: G >> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:25:53 GMT, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote:  >>  N >>> While VMS is not 'open source' in the sense of letting anyone poke their   >>> fingers D >>> into the code almost all of the source code of VMS is open for   >>> inspection.  >>  J >> I once inquired of DSPP how to get the source listings and they did not > F >Although the main offering of DSPP is half a service (subscription toH >new version CDROMs), it is their own service.  For general HP products,H >DSPP only sells "products", which inside the company follow a different >bureacracy from "services". > D >This is making it _very_ difficult for me to renew this year, sinceB >BusinessLink sometime in the last 9 months stopped allowing order >placement.  > < >> know.  Is it available gratis to ISV's?  If not, why not? > F >As we have seen with Posix support on VAX, a major maintenance burdenH >that is not part of the base operating system is liable to be cancelled5 >if there is no way to measure the level of interest.  > K >The Source Listings Kit is of such low volume that at the last DECUS (sic) K >symposium where its continued existance was in peril there were fewer than : >six customers who showed up at the meeting to discuss it.  K If this is cancelled, they might as well cancel VMS along with it!  By your L "DECUS (sic)" comment, I believe you are talking about the HP World?  If so,K I found no value whatsoever in it and therefore was not present to attend a L SIG or BOF on the future of the source listings.  I will put in my vote hereB and now that this service had better not go the way of the Dodo.     --  < http://www.ProvN.com  for the *best* OpenVMS system security=                       solutions that others only claim to be.  --  , Cyber-Terrorism (si'-ber tayr'-or-iz-em) n.:M   The release of, the sale of, or the use of any Micro$oft software product!   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:02:26 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) " Subject: Re: TCP/IP on OpenVMS 7.3/ Message-ID: <csdol2$7fl$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>   W In article <seadnbGP-o0rQnTcRVn-pA@inreach.com>, John Hixson <john@divinix.org> writes:  !Hi again guys, F !   I got my openvms system up and running and I also have an openvms J !hobbyist license. I did not get the license by purchasing a CD, I got it E !  by email after sighning up with decus. I would like to get TCP/IP  D !services on my machine. Currently I connect through minicom over a E !serial line. I seem to not be able to run decnet or tcpip without a  I !license. I haven't been able to find any information on this either. Is  F !there a hobbyist like license for openvms that would allow me to run F !these services? Am I barking up the wrong tree? I attempted to get a C !multinet license but it says my checksum is invalid, which I dont  H !understand unless im entering in the wrong information. EVen if I were < !to get multinet, Im not sure how I would get it on the box.   Hi John,  M The Multinet and TCPware licenses (available from process.com) require you to O send them a piece of information from the OPENVMS-HOBBYIST license.  I've made  N the mistake (more than once) of sending the information from the OPENVMS-ALPHAO license, and gotten a quick rejection e-mail from them.  I'm just guessing that # this is the problem you are seeing.   N If the problem really lies while you are entering the license information, tryN copying and pasting the license information into an editor, saving the file asO a *.COM file, and running the command procedure (@<filename>.COM).  Remember to M issue a LICENSE LOAD command after you have successfully entered the license.    !  !Thanks again, !John Hixson   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 06:45:07 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> " Subject: Re: TCP/IP on OpenVMS 7.3A Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050116064425.02523e60@raptor.psccos.com>   ) At 09:54 PM 1/15/2005, Dave Froble wrote:  >John Hixson wrote:  >  >>Hi again guys,G >>   I got my openvms system up and running and I also have an openvms  I >> hobbyist license. I did not get the license by purchasing a CD, I got  I >> it  by email after sighning up with decus. I would like to get TCP/IP  F >> services on my machine. Currently I connect through minicom over a G >> serial line. I seem to not be able to run decnet or tcpip without a  K >> license. I haven't been able to find any information on this either. Is  H >> there a hobbyist like license for openvms that would allow me to run H >> these services? Am I barking up the wrong tree? I attempted to get a E >> multinet license but it says my checksum is invalid, which I dont  J >> understand unless im entering in the wrong information. EVen if I were > >> to get multinet, Im not sure how I would get it on the box. >>Thanks again, 
 >>John Hixson  > I >You get the hobbyist licenses for other products the same place you got  , >the VMS license.  You need to ask for both.  @ You can also get hobbyist licenses for TCPware and MultiNet from www.process.com.   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:25:53 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>  Subject: Re: vms versus solaris 8 Message-ID: <cniku0t18epihtm8nan0u06hkirs97aehn@4ax.com>  K On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 22:56:16 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  wrote:  G >HP may continue to add the unwanted "open" word to VMS, but VMS is not I >"open" by today's standards. It no longer has the POSIX application that I >gave it claim to the early 1990s definition of "open". (and although VMS F >engineers are moving towards giving VMS more unix compatibility, very >littoe of VMS is open sourced.   P While VMS is not 'open source' in the sense of letting anyone poke their fingersJ into the code almost all of the source code of VMS is open for inspection.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:09:15 +0200 4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com> Subject: Re: vms versus solaris & Message-ID: <41EA839B.3691E9B3@hp.com>   Eitan wrote: > 6 > Is there any resamblance between vms and solaris os.N > If so, then what are the main things that are simmiliar and what are not (in
 > brief) ? >  > Thanks :)  Oooh look - a troll....    Mike --     -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 05:31:36 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: vms versus solaris ( Message-ID: <opsko6iytdzgicya@hyrrokkin>  D On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:25:53 GMT, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> wrote:  L > While VMS is not 'open source' in the sense of letting anyone poke their  	 > fingers B > into the code almost all of the source code of VMS is open for  
 > inspection.   G I once inquired of DSPP how to get the source listings and they did not 9 know.  Is it available gratis to ISV's?  If not, why not?    --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 08:38:16 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: vms versus solaris 8 Message-ID: <e7uGd.1737$W33.22805@news20.bellglobal.com>  D "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message + news:newscache$enkdai$ow22$1@news.sil.at... 3 > In article <41e94fd5$1@news.012.net.il>, "Eitan"  % > <no_spam_please@nospam.com> writes:  [...snip...] > I > For other answers read the OpenVMS FAQ http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq  >  > --   > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist  J Although I have nothing but respect for the official OpenVMS FAQ, it is a K bit too technical for some situations. Some time ago I needed to produce a  F semi-technical comparison of UNIX and OpenVMS for my employer (target L audience: semi-technical people who have volunteered for a partial lobotomy J and are now in middle management) in order to defend our team's choice of F sticking with OpenVMS rather than jumping to LINUX. Once presented, I M removed information specific to my employer and posted the information on my   personal web site.  6 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/vms_vs_unix.html  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 06:03:02 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: vms versus solaris ( Message-ID: <opsko7zcolzgicya@hyrrokkin>  G On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 08:38:16 -0500, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>    wrote:   > E > "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message - > news:newscache$enkdai$ow22$1@news.sil.at... 3 >> In article <41e94fd5$1@news.012.net.il>, "Eitan" & >> <no_spam_please@nospam.com> writes: > [...snip...] >>J >> For other answers read the OpenVMS FAQ http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq >> >> --  >> Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER( >> Network and OpenVMS system specialist >> E-mail  peter@langstoeger.at I >> A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist  > K > Although I have nothing but respect for the official OpenVMS FAQ, it is a L > bit too technical for some situations. Some time ago I needed to produce   > a G > semi-technical comparison of UNIX and OpenVMS for my employer (target F > audience: semi-technical people who have volunteered for a partial  
 > lobotomyK > and are now in middle management) in order to defend our team's choice of G > sticking with OpenVMS rather than jumping to LINUX. Once presented, I J > removed information specific to my employer and posted the information   > on my  > personal web site. > 8 > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/vms_vs_unix.html  % To your list of sectors you could add  Steel 
 Automotive Semiconductors >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html >  >        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:25:54 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: vms versus solaris 9 Message-ID: <UkyGd.5527$W33.106609@news20.bellglobal.com>   / "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message  " news:opsko7zcolzgicya@hyrrokkin...H > On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 08:38:16 -0500, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  > wrote: >  [...snip...] >>L >> Although I have nothing but respect for the official OpenVMS FAQ, it is aL >> bit too technical for some situations. Some time ago I needed to produce  >> aH >> semi-technical comparison of UNIX and OpenVMS for my employer (targetF >> audience: semi-technical people who have volunteered for a partial  >> lobotomy L >> and are now in middle management) in order to defend our team's choice ofH >> sticking with OpenVMS rather than jumping to LINUX. Once presented, IJ >> removed information specific to my employer and posted the information  >> on my >> personal web site.  >>9 >> http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/vms_vs_unix.html  > ' > To your list of sectors you could add  > Steel  > Automotive > Semiconductors >>  B I've already added semiconductors but didn't know about Steel and 1 Automotive. Which companies were you thinking of?   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.032 ************************