0 INFO-VAX	Mon, 17 Jan 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 34      Contents: apache openvms download kit  Re: apache openvms download kit  Re: apache openvms download kit 8 Re: Connecting VAX VMS (5.2) to PC (Windows 2000 Server)< HP's "news" is so old it is more aptly described as "fossil". JEVE-W-BADISD illegal image section descriptor2 Re: JEVE-W-BADISD illegal image section descriptor2 Re: JEVE-W-BADISD illegal image section descriptor KDJ11-R  Re: KDJ11-R ! MemoryChannel VMS Cluster problem % RE: MemoryChannel VMS Cluster problem % Re: MemoryChannel VMS Cluster problem % RE: MemoryChannel VMS Cluster problem & Re: new.com article about OpenVMS v8.2 Re: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium  Re: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium  Re: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium  Re: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium ! Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium emulator? ! Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium emulator? ! Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium emulator?  Region coded VMS next?/ Reorg (was: new.com article about OpenVMS v8.2)  Re: Simple EDT or TPU init file  Re: Source Listings Kit  Using PHP to access RMS files ! Re: Using PHP to access RMS files 2 VMS success stories view Itanic with jaundiced eye Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris> Will we hear carly(tm) talk about anything like this tomorrow?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 06:44:33 -0800 From: mb301@hotmail.com $ Subject: apache openvms download kitC Message-ID: <1105973073.857405.228110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   G Please could someone tell me the URL of the Download kit is for apache? ) I have openvms 7.2-2 do I need a license?    Thnks    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 07:04:53 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ( Subject: Re: apache openvms download kit( Message-ID: <opskq5ifnqzgicya@hyrrokkin>  9 On 17 Jan 2005 06:44:33 -0800, <mb301@hotmail.com> wrote:   I > Please could someone tell me the URL of the Download kit is for apache? + > I have openvms 7.2-2 do I need a license?  >  > Thnks  >  Do yourself a favour,    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/    --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:24:30 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> ( Subject: Re: apache openvms download kit8 Message-ID: <8dpnu0lbd3iakgp9mndlllj18dqf94g22j@4ax.com>  7 On 17 Jan 2005 06:44:33 -0800, mb301@hotmail.com wrote:   H >Please could someone tell me the URL of the Download kit is for apache?* >I have openvms 7.2-2 do I need a license?  M Here you are. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws.html O Secure Web Server (based on Apache) is licensed & supported as part of the base $ OS so no need for any extra license.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 04:16:46 -0800 From: mark_doherty@yahoo.co.ukA Subject: Re: Connecting VAX VMS (5.2) to PC (Windows 2000 Server) C Message-ID: <1105964206.150850.303960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: > Mark Doherty wrote:  > 
 > >Newbie! > > @ > >We have a VaxCluster of 3 Microvax 3800's that are networked.? > >I would like to transfer files and run commands from the PC. 6 > >We have BNC ethernet connections on the VAX and PC. > > F > If I remember correctly, Hummingbird has built in terminal emulation@ > capabilities and, most likely, it is connecting to the old VMS version D > by way of DECnet or LAT.  If you logon onto the system that offersD > connectivity to the PC, then do a SHOW NETWORK to see if DECnet isF > running, and type MCR LATCP SHOW SERVICE to see if LAT is running on the A > VMS system, and what that systems service name might be...  All  you'll< > need to do is configure the second system to offer similar services...  >  We do not have LAT running. D SHOW NETWORK shows the node 202.1 is on the network, it does not say anything about DECnet though.   " To configure the other system do I install Kermit 95 on the pc = install C-Kermit on VAX (we already use Kermit 32 over rs232)  Thanx, Mark.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:48:06 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> E Subject: HP's "news" is so old it is more aptly described as "fossil" , Message-ID: <IcudnfR_Q8WgcXbcRVn-rQ@igs.net>  7 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/index.html?jumpid=/go/openvms   K In the 'News' section in the middle of the page is a link to the University  of Turin porting project.   L This was first trotted out nearly 10 months ago. So much for 'news'. PerhapsI they should have placed this story under the "Medieval History" section - 0 which is in keeping with carly(tm)'s world view.  H Perhaps if HP could sell some new customers on VMS, then they'd actuallyH have some 'news' to write about. Oh, I forgot, ...that actually requires< effective advertising and marketing.  Sorry...wrong company.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 01:47:59 -0800# From: askgoogle2004@yahoo.com (Tom) 7 Subject: JEVE-W-BADISD illegal image section descriptor = Message-ID: <c44f4f47.0501170147.1fc05929@posting.google.com>    Hello Everyone,   F 	Many  thanks for all the responses and sorry for the delay in getting3 back. I will try to answer each one of you as below    JOSEPH :  3 	1. My exe is dynamically loading the shared image. + 	2. I did not transfer my image  any where. , 	3. I did not get any warnings while linking% 	4.  The link command that i used is    4 	link/share/notraceback imagename, sys$input/option.             A              but, I am encountering this problem even without the  shared image being used.   BOB : C 	I am not much familiar with TPU$SECTION. How does it affect in our  case? # 	Can you throw some light on that?     UDO : 4 	I have not declared any logical with the same name.   My Question :	 					 > Does JEVE-W- have any significance in the error JEVE-W-BADISD?  D Thanks in advance every one once again for your time.  Awaiting your
 responses.   Have a great day!!!  							  Regards, Tom.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 08:07:32 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ; Subject: Re: JEVE-W-BADISD illegal image section descriptor 3 Message-ID: <qQIDY$azYxrG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <c44f4f47.0501170147.1fc05929@posting.google.com>, askgoogle2004@yahoo.com (Tom) writes:  >  > BOB : E > 	I am not much familiar with TPU$SECTION. How does it affect in our  > case?   <    Since VMS messages are in the form "%fac-s-name, text" orE    "-fac-s-name", I took "JEVE" to be a typo for %EVE.  EVE is built  C    on TPU and TPU$SECTION is one way to tell TPU where its compiled     editor definition is stored.   % > 	Can you throw some light on that?   >  > UDO : 6 > 	I have not declared any logical with the same name. >  > My Question :	 > 					 @ > Does JEVE-W- have any significance in the error JEVE-W-BADISD?  C    Standard VMS messages don't start with JEVE.  It's possible that D    someone is mimicing the standard message with their own code.  IfH    it's really %JEVE or -JEVE, then someone has set up their own messageH    file generating standard messages for their own facility called JEVE.  E    The -W- would indicate warning level severity:  a problem that you A    may want to look into but which did not stop the software from F    carrying out the requested operation.  The results of the operation     may not be what you intended.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 15:37:43 +0100. From: huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber); Subject: Re: JEVE-W-BADISD illegal image section descriptor + Message-ID: <8ifxtg3hxvEB@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   c In article <c44f4f47.0501170147.1fc05929@posting.google.com>, askgoogle2004@yahoo.com (Tom) writes: H > 	Many  thanks for all the responses and sorry for the delay in getting5 > back. I will try to answer each one of you as below 
 > JOSEPH : > 5 > 	1. My exe is dynamically loading the shared image. - > 	2. I did not transfer my image  any where. . > 	3. I did not get any warnings while linking' > 	4.  The link command that i used is  6 > 	link/share/notraceback imagename, sys$input/option.C >              but, I am encountering this problem even without the  > shared image being used.=  Your LINK command answers already one of my other questions: A  LINK/SHARE produces a shared image, NOT an executable, therefore "  the error when You try to RUN it.  A  Leave off the /SHARE qualifier on the link command, You need it  8  in the options file, when shared libraries are linked.     --  6    Joseph Huber, Muenchen  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 08:25:35 -0800$ From: jk@igm-group.com (Joe Kreuzer) Subject: KDJ11-R= Message-ID: <5697eb95.0501170825.407a477c@posting.google.com>   H I know this might not be the right group for this posting, but I try it.1 I need some CPU-boards KDJ11-R (11/93) for Q-Bus. & Does anybody know where I can buy it ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:37:04 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: KDJ11-R( Message-ID: <opskq9r2y0zgicya@hyrrokkin>  D On 17 Jan 2005 08:25:35 -0800, Joe Kreuzer <jk@igm-group.com> wrote:  J > I know this might not be the right group for this posting, but I try it.3 > I need some CPU-boards KDJ11-R (11/93) for Q-Bus. ( > Does anybody know where I can buy it ?  & You might try Puget Sound Data Systems   --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:48:01 -0500 0 From: Peter Sjoberg <peters38@techwiz.ca.nospam>* Subject: MemoryChannel VMS Cluster problem> Message-ID: <pan.2005.01.17.14.48.01.215033@techwiz.ca.nospam>  H Now it's cold enough so I connected and started up my two alpha servers.  H I'm trying to make a MC cluster with a shared BA box in the middle but IA can't get up both servers at the same time. I have installed OVMS D 7.3-1 on DKA100, created the other node (SYS1) and got most of it toG work. I can start boot up both nodes but whoever comes second will show   4 SYSINIT-I waiting to form or join an OpenVMS Cluster2 %CNXMAN, Using local access method for quorum disk0 %CNXMAN, Established "connection" to quorum disk  E and then it's hangs. Rebooting the other node causes this one to take F off and boot up normally and on the way up the other node hangs at the same point.      My setup   NodeA: Name; EMPAK  System: DS40( PKA: Connected to external shared BAdisk) MC: VHost1 (jumper on MC card set to VH1)  Bootdef_dev DKA100 boot_osflags 0,0
 pka scsi id 6  quorum_disk: DKA100  qdskvotes 1  votes 1  expected_votes 3 MC_Services_P2=1 MC_Services_P7=2   NodeB: Name; TERRAK System: DS10( PKA: Connected to external shared BAdisk) MC: VHost0 (jumper on MC card set to VH0)  Bootdef_dev DKA100 boot_osflags 1,0
 pka scsi id 7  quorum_disk: DKA100  qdskvotes 1  votes 1  expected_votes 3 MC_Services_P2=1 MC_Services_P7=2  G I did mc_diag and mc_cable tests and they worked. When booting up I see F messages (thanks to MC_Services_P7=2) that indicates that the MC stuff works.; I tried to remove the quorum disk but it still didn't work. 4 What else do I need to check or what might be wrong?   /ps     O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups E ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:25:22 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> . Subject: RE: MemoryChannel VMS Cluster problemR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB4EA464@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----< > From: Peter Sjoberg [mailto:peters38@techwiz.ca.nospam]=20  > Sent: January 17, 2005 6:48 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , > Subject: MemoryChannel VMS Cluster problem >=20> > Now it's cold enough so I connected and started up my two=20 > alpha servers. >=20@ > I'm trying to make a MC cluster with a shared BA box in the=20 > middle but IC > can't get up both servers at the same time. I have installed OVMS F > 7.3-1 on DKA100, created the other node (SYS1) and got most of it toB > work. I can start boot up both nodes but whoever comes second=20 > will show  >=206 > SYSINIT-I waiting to form or join an OpenVMS Cluster4 > %CNXMAN, Using local access method for quorum disk2 > %CNXMAN, Established "connection" to quorum disk >=20G > and then it's hangs. Rebooting the other node causes this one to take H > off and boot up normally and on the way up the other node hangs at the > same point.=20 >=20 >=20   Peter,  G As I recall, early on in the VMS V7.3-1 release there was an issue with A MC interconnects. Are you running the latest patch update for VMS  V7.3-1?    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:17:51 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> . Subject: Re: MemoryChannel VMS Cluster problem2 Message-ID: <3rSGd.5972$Vt4.2772@news.cpqcorp.net>   Peter Sjoberg wrote: > NodeA: > quorum_disk: DKA100 
 > qdskvotes 1 	 > votes 1  > expected_votes 3 >  > NodeB:  > quorum_disk: DKA100
 > qdskvotes 1 	 > votes 1  > expected_votes 3  E One possible complication is that the QUORUM.DAT file needed for the  C quorum disk's votes to be counted is created by the Cluster_Server  G process, and that process doesn't run until you achieve quorum. It may  I help to tempmorarily boot conversationally (>>> boot -fl n,1) and at the  I SYSBOOT> prompt set EXPECTED_VOTES to 1 (and WRITESYSPARAMS to 0 so it's  H not permanent), and get a single-node cluster up and running so you can . create the QUORUM.DAT file on the quorum disk.  = > I tried to remove the quorum disk but it still didn't work.   I Assuming you lowered EXPECTED_VOTES to 2 when you set QUORUM_DISK to "",  E you'd still need 2 votes (both systems) to be up at the same time to   achieve quorum.   H And while you're diagnosing any Memory Channel issues, it might help to I enable cluster communications over the LAN so you can build and hold the  D cluster together using the LAN as an alternate cluster interconnect.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:12:52 -0500 0 From: Peter Sjoberg <peters38@techwiz.ca.nospam>. Subject: RE: MemoryChannel VMS Cluster problem> Message-ID: <pan.2005.01.17.17.12.43.468165@techwiz.ca.nospam>  6 On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:25:22 -0500, Main, Kerry wrote:   Hi Kerry   >  >> -----Original Message----- ; >> From: Peter Sjoberg [mailto:peters38@techwiz.ca.nospam]  ! >> Sent: January 17, 2005 6:48 AM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- >> Subject: MemoryChannel VMS Cluster problem  >>  = >> Now it's cold enough so I connected and started up my two   >> alpha servers.  >>  ? >> I'm trying to make a MC cluster with a shared BA box in the   >> middle but I D >> can't get up both servers at the same time. I have installed OVMSG >> 7.3-1 on DKA100, created the other node (SYS1) and got most of it to A >> work. I can start boot up both nodes but whoever comes second   >> will show >>  7 >> SYSINIT-I waiting to form or join an OpenVMS Cluster 5 >> %CNXMAN, Using local access method for quorum disk 3 >> %CNXMAN, Established "connection" to quorum disk  >>  H >> and then it's hangs. Rebooting the other node causes this one to takeI >> off and boot up normally and on the way up the other node hangs at the  >> same point.   >>   >>   >  > Peter, > I > As I recall, early on in the VMS V7.3-1 release there was an issue with C > MC interconnects. Are you running the latest patch update for VMS 	 > V7.3-1? I Nope, was running unpatched stuff. I headed over to hp.com, signed up (no 6 contract needed :) )and downloaded VMS731_PCSI-V0200 &B VMS731_UPDATE-V0400, and after installing them it worked directly.  I I don't think it's to many VMS hobbyist that running a OVMS Alpha cluster F with MC in there basement but thanks to your help I'm now one of them.E Just sad that I probably have to shutdown when spring and heat comes.    /ps  > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477  > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)  > & > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..  > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."      O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups E ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:06:33 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> / Subject: Re: new.com article about OpenVMS v8.2 2 Message-ID: <tgSGd.5971$Cr4.2351@news.cpqcorp.net>   JF Mezei wrote: > >>The OpenVMS business was profitable in 2003, but HP declined= >>to state whether it is today, citing investor regulations.    >H > Another example of HP finding excuses for not talking about VMS. FunnyE > how those same investor regulations require HP to divulge plenty of I > information about wintel shipments and profitability (or lack thereof).   H The article said profitable "today". HP has just entered the regulatory F "quiet period" preceding its quarterly earnings announcement, so data G about the latest quarter's profitability (including data about Wintel)  E is not available. The reporter should have asked about profitability  F last quarter, or last fiscal year --- then they could have gotten the - reponse that yes, indeed, VMS was profitable.   F >>OpenVMS 8.2 supports clusters of as many as 16 machines--up to eight7 >>Alpha-based and up to eight Itanium-based in the same 3 >>group, a source familiar with the software said.   > I > It is a real shame that they've downgraded the clustering from 96 nodes  > on VAX/Alpha to just 16 nodes   L The clustering on VAX/Alpha has NOT been downgraded. It's still at 96 nodes.  B As far as cluster node-count on Itanium (or in mixed-architecture I clusters), this is double what the limits were at the same point in time  & for the VAX-to-Alpha transition, IIRC.  H To put things into perspective, it's already twice the maximmum Windows E claims to support, and already equal to the maximum MC/Service Guard  I supports. And it's just a matter of time and qualification work involved  < -- it'll be at 96 nodes (I'm lobbying for even higher) soon.  G >>HP also is expected to introduce per-processor licensing for OpenVMS,  >>letting customers pay for E >>the amount of computing horsepower they're using instead of today's 7 >>pricing based on the capability of the entire system.  > B > While in the short term this may be interesting, it sort of goesB > against the industry trend outside of HP to remove per-processorG > pricing due to the onslaught of dual core CPUs used instead of higher  > Mhz rates.  F Although per-processor licensing (PPL) is indeed used on Itanium, the G article here appears to really be talking about pay-per-use (PPU), not  I per-processor licensing (PPL), and the article certainly doesn't address  A the issue of what the definition of a processor is for licensing  H purposes. The reporter apparently got PPL and PPU mixed up. Pay-Per-Use G allows you to get something like a 16-processor box installed when you  I initially need only, say, 8 CPUs, and not have to pay the full price for  3 the other 8 processors until you actually use them.   G It is beneficial to HP for more software vendors (particularly Oracle)  E to adopt per-socket rather than per-CPU licensing (per-socket is the  F direction Microsoft has taken). It lowers the cost of the solution to H the customer. So I don't see HP as being against that by any stretch of  the imagination.   > HP should have been far L > more forthcoming to ensure the article had a far more positive spin to it. > H > This article, combined with Sue's request for secrecy is an indicationG > to me that HP isn't setting the stage for a big VMS-related splash on B > the 18th. As the CNET article stated, the thurst of the Jan 18th* > announcement will be the new IA64 chips.  I HP, like any other vendor, doesn't discuss in detail the contents of any  E planned announcement, or there wouldn't be anything left to announce.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:08:36 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> $ Subject: Re: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium2 Message-ID: <UxQGd.5962$Fp4.5589@news.cpqcorp.net>   JF Mezei wrote: ? > My guess is that Alpha VMS sales will outlive IA64 VMS sales.   H As Alpha sales are slated to end next year, in 2006, your guess is very 	 unlikely.   @ > The decision to kill IA64 was taken cooperatively. Both HP andG > Intel realised that IA64 wouldn't ever be able to compete against the " > 8086 or Power AND be profitable.  F You talk as if such a decision has been made, when in fact it has not.  ( > It is one thing to donate IA64 serversH > as publicity stunts, but another to convince customers to actually pay > full price for those things   E Integrity Servers cost less than the equivalent Alpha box (thanks to  H economies of scale). So it's not hard to convince intelligent people to  purchase them.  G > VMS may have be available commercially in 2 days, but it doesn't mean I > that a large proportion of VMS customers will be able to migrate to it. : > Availability of software will be the driving force here.  G What we're hearing from ISVs and customers is that "compile-and-go" is  G the most common case. Easier than the VAX-to-Alpha transition. So it's  E much quicker and easier porting both ISV software and customers' own  . in-house code this time than it was last time.  	 > And for A > software that is no longer being upgraded or available for VMS, - > customers will migrate to another platform.   I OpenVMS users know that migration away is not easy, and not fun, and the  G result is less than satisfactory. If an application were not available  H on Itanium, they'd be much more likely to stay on Alpha than to migrate  to another OS platform.   H > Where will Alpha workstation customers migrate to ? (as I recall, NASA( > was a big Alpha workstation customer).  D They'll continue to use server hardware with graphics heads (and be K fully supported in doing so), just as they've done for many years on Alpha.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:32:48 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> $ Subject: Re: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium, Message-ID: <fYednQy7np4FR3bcRVn-iw@igs.net>   Keith Parris wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote: @ >> My guess is that Alpha VMS sales will outlive IA64 VMS sales. > D > As Alpha sales are slated to end next year, in 2006, your guess is > very unlikely.  G I dpoubt very much whether the customer base will stand for Alpha's not F being sold after 2006 - until IA64 clusters have demonstrated - in theL field, in production, for a reasonable period of time - that 96 nodes can be? clustered. Until that happens IA64 is not ready for prime time.     ) >> It is one thing to donate IA64 servers E >> as publicity stunts, but another to convince customers to actually " >> pay full price for those things > F > Integrity Servers cost less than the equivalent Alpha box (thanks toF > economies of scale). So it's not hard to convince intelligent people > to purchase them.   J So are you saying that in 2000/2001 Alpha was selling at a lower rate than IA64 is today???  H Or is it the other way around - IA64 is today selling at lower rate thanI Alpha was in 2000/2001 when the decision to kill Alpha was made? It would B have been far less costly and disruptive to have done EV8 etc, andH *subsidized* SGI, NEC, Unisys, et. al. to use Alpha than to have gone toH IA64, and the result would have been ramped-up Alpha production - a chip  which had a sterling reputation.     > H >> VMS may have be available commercially in 2 days, but it doesn't meanF >> that a large proportion of VMS customers will be able to migrate to? >> it. Availability of software will be the driving force here.  > H > What we're hearing from ISVs and customers is that "compile-and-go" isH > the most common case. Easier than the VAX-to-Alpha transition. So it'sF > much quicker and easier porting both ISV software and customers' own0 > in-house code this time than it was last time.  K Re-certification/qualification costs for many large-scale applications will J mean that, for many customers, they will defer any migration to IA64 untilJ their existing Alphas come off-lease or have been depreciated to nothing -J which could be 3-4 years before HP ever sees those customers purchasing anI Itanic. Andjust like VAXen which just keep on chugging in production, the  same will occur with Alpha.   G My guess is that 25% of the existing Alpha base will never convert from G Alpha, and will continue to purchase Alpha's in the used market. Of the J remaining 75%, I'd guess that over the next 3 years about 1/3 of them will move to a non-VMS platform.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:41:36 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) $ Subject: Re: Next Gen Fabs & ItaniumL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1701051041340001@user-uinj51o.dialup.mindspring.com>  3 In article <41EAE0E2.F65E1F87@nobody.org>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    >Tom Linden wrote:J >> True, but since Intel has cooled to the Itanium, and they only have a 3F >> yearn  contractual obligation to HP, one might reasonably ask, what
 happens then. I >> Given the cost of the fab, if they have a captive customer it might be ? >> tempting to recoup some of the capital investment from them.  > H >Intel doesn't have a FAB dedicated to IA64. It uses the same FAB as the >8086.   > H >Does anyone know how long it takes to switch product/chip at a FAB (sayD >to produce 8086s one day and Alphas the next ?) Is this measured in >minutes, hours, days, weeks ? > I >I assume that they have designed the FAbs so that product switches don't  >entail long downtimes.   F The start-to-finish process time for cutting edge chips is measured in1 months.  They don't just crank out CPUs like CDs.   J The overriding design goal for an advanced chip factory is to maximize theJ yield  for chips they can (at first) barely make at all.  Everything else,C including fast changeovers, will tend to take a back seat to yield.   B Out of curiousity, why do you write FAB in all capitals?  Is it an@ acronym?  Or does the topic make you angry so you tend to shout?   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 10:16:36 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) $ Subject: Re: Next Gen Fabs & Itanium3 Message-ID: <i0AV4H+PShuq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <UxQGd.5962$Fp4.5589@news.cpqcorp.net>, Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: > JF Mezei wrote: @ >> My guess is that Alpha VMS sales will outlive IA64 VMS sales. > J > As Alpha sales are slated to end next year, in 2006, your guess is very  > unlikely.   ? Yours is the first announcement I have heard of this.  Previous = public statements from HP have been that sales would continue  "at least" until...   H >> VMS may have be available commercially in 2 days, but it doesn't meanJ >> that a large proportion of VMS customers will be able to migrate to it.; >> Availability of software will be the driving force here.  > I > What we're hearing from ISVs and customers is that "compile-and-go" is   > the most common case.   A The other case is "anything written in DEC Ada/Compaq Ada/HP Ada" E where even if ACT ever releases a compiler ISVs must pay 20 times the F cost ISVs pay on Alpha and will _not_ be compatible with build systems  that work on both VAX and Alpha.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:24:26 +0100 ! From: Soterro <soterroatyahoocom> * Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium emulator?; Message-ID: <41eb83a5$0$20497$4d4ef98e@read.news.ch.uu.net>    David J Dachtera wrote: J > Well, there's a commercial product called Charon-VAX and freeware called > SIMH.   H A couple of years ago we thought demonstrating one of our products on a F laptop woud be neat and tried to use Charon-VAX for that. We ran into F some issues and contacted their techies. My god... we never had until G then and never since such an arrogant (and obviously useless) contact.  @ Because of that we dropped completely the idea of Charon-VAX. I : certainly hope they improved this PR area in the meantime.   S    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:28:24 -0500 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>* Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium emulator?. Message-ID: <41EB9348.19505.936B817@localhost>  ' On 17 Jan 2005 at 10:24, Soterro wrote: G > A couple of years ago we thought demonstrating one of our products on D > a laptop woud be neat and tried to use Charon-VAX for that. We ranF > into some issues and contacted their techies. My god... we never hadE > until then and never since such an arrogant (and obviously useless) H > contact. Because of that we dropped completely the idea of Charon-VAX.> > I certainly hope they improved this PR area in the meantime.  ( I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.  C My involvement with CHARON-VAX is intended to leverage my years of  E experience with VMS.  When someone calls Quayle Consulting Inc., I'm  , the one that answers.  I suggest you re-try:  &   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html  3 [A Shameless Plug (tm) from a CHARON-VAX reseller.]   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:34:32 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> * Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Itanium emulator?1 Message-ID: <cWQGd.5966$cr4.939@news.cpqcorp.net>    Marco wrote:L > I'm basically looking for some software that will enable me to run OpenVMS > on my Intel-based laptop.   >I  > If I can get a VAX emulator that runs on my Intel laptop, I'm all for   it...   E Either Bob Supnik's simh (http://simh.trailing-edge.com/) or Timothy  E Stark's TS-10 (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ts10) should fill the  G bill here. They emulate the 32-bit VAX, and are free. There's also the  G commercial Charon-VAX product (http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/),  8 if you need support (i.e. for a production application).  C I have simh running on my Intel-based laptop under Windows XP, and  F OpenVMS VAX running under that. I used the OpenVMS Hobbyist media and 4 free licenses -- see http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/  : > I'd want an Itanium one also.  Why?  Just because... ;-)  I While some Itanium emulators do exist, one would probably take some more  ) development work before it could run VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:54:50 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Region coded VMS next? , Message-ID: <lJ6dnaLrHfPUWXbcRVn-vA@igs.net>   Electronics With Borders:  Some Work Only in the U.S.  # By DAVID PRINGLE and STEVE STECKLOW * Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL January 17, 2005; Page B1   L To save money, Chris Caine, a resident of Fiji, always orders computers madeK by Apple Computer Inc. from the U.S., where they are significantly cheaper. ; Recently, he purchased Apple's newest desktop, the iMac G5.   L Soon after the computer arrived from the U.S. he plugged it in. There was "aL big bang, like an explosion, and white smoke out of the speaker grilles," he says. The machine then died.  H Mr. Caine didn't have a defective unit. It turns out that, unlike the 17C other Apple computers that he had purchased in recent years for his K DVD-rental business, the new iMac G5s sold in the U.S. are designed to work L only with the electric power systems in the U.S. and Japan, which pump out a3 lower number of volts than in most other countries.:  H Mr. Caine fell foul of a little-noticed trend: Some consumer-electronicsG companies are designing products so they will work only in the U.S. ForSG example, some of the latest printers from Hewlett-Packard Co. refuse toEH print if they aren't fed ink cartridges bought in the same region of theL world as the printer. Nintendo Co.'s latest hand-held game machines are sold: in the U.S. with power adaptors that don't work in Europe.    E Such measures prevent thrifty foreign consumers and gray marketers -- K traders who sell goods through channels that haven't been authorized by the2J manufacturer -- from taking advantage of the decline of the dollar againstG the world's major currencies to buy lower-price products in the U.S. InlH terms of euros, pounds or other strong currencies, U.S. retail goods are0 much cheaper today than they were two years ago.  J U.S. multinational companies want Europeans to continue to buy their goodsD in Europe, however, rather than seeking out bargains in the U.S. TheF companies make more money if Europeans pay in euros for their goods at current exchange rates.s  L For example, H-P's European revenue in its fiscal fourth quarter, ended Oct.J 31, rose 11.3% from the year-earlier period, while its U.S. revenue shrankK 0.3%. The company said its total revenue, which is reported in dollars, wasm6 boosted by sales in euros and other strong currencies.  J In the U.S., Apple sells the most basic version of the iMac G5 for $1,299.K In the United Kingdom, the same machine costs 765, or $1,430, before sales- tax.  I Of course, there have always been products, particularly electrical ones,cK that don't work universally; different countries have different voltages as0L well as incompatible television and radio broadcasting standards. But in theJ era of the global economy, with business people toting laptops, cellphonesH and digital music players around the world, the electronics industry had= been moving toward making more products that work everywhere.n  L Now, there are signs that manufacturers feel that this kind of globalizationL has gone too far. H-P has quietly begun implementing "region coding" for itsI highly lucrative print cartridges for some of its newest printers sold inaI Europe. Try putting a printer cartridge bought in the U.S. into a new H-P.K printer configured to use cartridges purchased in Europe and it won't work./F Software in the printer determines the origin of the ink cartridge and whether it will accept it.  L The company introduced region-coding on several printers in the summer so itH won't have to keep altering prices to keep pace with currency movements,H says Kim Holm, vice president for H-P's supplies business in Europe, theL Middle East and Africa. H-P eventually plans to introduce the concept across, its entire line of inkjet printers, he adds.  C This comes at a time when the sliding dollar has meant that H-P inkeJ cartridges sold in Europe are becoming much more expensive than equivalentJ ones in the U.S. "We are not trying to make money on this," Mr. Holm says,J adding that European customers will benefit from H-P's new approach if theF dollar begins to rise in value against the euro -- because H-P used toL increase prices in Europe when the dollar rose in value to ensure consistentK prices around the world. Under the new policy, H-P plans to leave prices inV) Europe the same even if the dollar rises.w  L But tech-savvy consumers already may be plotting to circumvent the system. AF message recently appeared on an Internet bulletin board for people whoH specialize in refilling used printer ink cartridges to save money. "DoesK anyone have a solution to beat the regionalization that H-P has placed intooI the new 94 series cartridges?" it asked. (No answer has been posted yet.)   L H-P is taking the same approach Hollywood has used with DVDs -- and one thatJ prompted a huge consumer backlash overseas. Movies sold in the U.S., whichH generally are cheaper, are designed not to play in European or Asian DVD players.  H The European Commission in Brussels has been scrutinizing such practicesL including DVD pricing "for quite some time, and we are still investigating,"E says Jonathan Todd, the European Commission's spokesman for antitrust  policy.   K In the meantime, in response to consumer complaints, many manufacturers now G sell DVD players in Europe that can be altered legally so they can play  films bought in any country.  F Consumer groups are also opposed to the latest region-coding measures.D "Manufacturers don't like global commerce when it doesn't line theirH pockets," says Phil Evans, principal policy adviser at Which?, a BritishJ consumer watchdog. "In the long term, it's not a clever thing to do from a customer-relations standpoint."a  K Indeed, Apple shopper Mr. Caine says he felt ripped off. The iMac G5s AppleoI sells everywhere except the U.S. and Japan are dual voltage, meaning theytI can cope with the electrical systems in Fiji, Europe and most of Asia, asnI well as those in Japan and the U.S. Mr. Caine's new $1,500 computer is "at# nice, pretty paperweight," he says.   J Other Apple products including iPods, the new Mac Mini and its laptops areE dual-voltage. Steve Dowling, a spokesman for Apple, which is based inuL Cupertino, Calif., declined to explain why the easily transportable iMac G5sJ Apple sells in the U.S. aren't dual voltage. He said only, "Apple does not4 discourage anyone, anywhere from buying an iMac G5."  B Ironically, tweaking products for different regions can increase aK manufacturer's costs. It is often easier and cheaper for a company to alterfK the power adaptors to work in the different voltage systems in Europe, AsiaT< and the U.S. rather than make changes to the product itself.  L Nintendo sells the same Game Boy Advance SP everywhere. But the ones sold in@ the U.S., which cost nearly 30% less than in Europe, come with aH single-voltage power adaptor that won't work in Europe. (So does the newF Nintendo DS hand-held game machine, although it's not yet available inG Europe.) Nintendo's older Game Boy Advance operated on batteries, whichhI could be bought anywhere, but the newer machines must be recharged with a  power adaptor.  I That means the newer game consoles sold in the U.S. can't be recharged ineH Europe. The result: a cottage industry of substitute power adaptors. OneI dealer, Matthew Hudd, owner of U.K. online retailer Console Plus, says hejJ sells 500 to 600 multivoltage adaptors a year, at about $10 each, that areD specifically designed for U.S. or Japanese Game Boys used in Europe.  L "Nintendo's power adaptors are designed to comply with the regulations foundL in the region in which they are sold," says Beth Llewelyn, a spokeswoman forD Nintendo of America. "While the effect on gray-market trafficking isF helpful, it is not Nintendo's primary design concern." She declined to
 elaborate.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:01:06 -0800i# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>s8 Subject: Reorg (was: new.com article about OpenVMS v8.2)( Message-ID: <opskrav4tdzgicya@hyrrokkin>  0 On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:06:33 GMT, Keith Parris  % <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:   K > The article said profitable "today". HP has just entered the regulatory  eI > "quiet period" preceding its quarterly earnings announcement, so data  %J > about the latest quarter's profitability (including data about Wintel)  H > is not available. The reporter should have asked about profitability  I > last quarter, or last fiscal year --- then they could have gotten the   / > reponse that yes, indeed, VMS was profitable.  >r  J I noted last week that PCs and Printers are now in the same group.  That   shouldL hide the miserable financial performance of the PC's  Have to laugh at the   bladerF commercials on TV.  As your business grows just add more blades.  Do  	 companiesa really buy that codswallop?g   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 01:31:09 -08003 From: "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com>.( Subject: Re: Simple EDT or TPU init fileA Message-ID: <1105954269.635195.7350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>t  ! Well I can't resist a challenge..   @ I decided that I would see if I could do it between the start of< lunch time and the time the microwave went ping for my food.  ; This is what I threw up. (Sorry, put together). I made some  assumptions., - 'Double size' means both height and width.9 - 'By default' means it displays it only in that size. Noo clever keystroke to toggle it.   Here is BIGVIEW.TPUu  3 input_file := GET_INFO (COMMAND_LINE, "file_name");s4 input_buffer := CREATE_BUFFER ("input", input_file);% main_buffer:= CREATE_BUFFER ("main");r3 window_size := (GET_INFO(screen,"length")+1)/2*2-1;e  ' position (BEGINNING_OF (input_buffer));n LOOP- exitif (mark(none) = end_of(current_buffer));  the_line := current_line;h  position (end_of (main_buffer));$ copy_text (ascii(27)+"#3"+the_line); split_line;2$ copy_text (ascii(27)+"#4"+the_line); position (input_buffer); move_vertical (1); ENDLOOP;  & position (BEGINNING_OF (main_buffer));/ main_window := create_window(1,window_size,ON);o$ SET (TEXT,main_window,NO_TRANSLATE);' set (status_line, main_window, REVERSE,a@ "  |Up = 8|  |Down = 2|  |Page Up = 4|  |Page down = 6|  |Exit = 1|" );  1 the_key_map      := create_key_map ("user_keys");"A the_key_map_list := create_key_map_list ("keylist", the_key_map);i  / set (UNDEFINED_KEY, the_key_map_list, "abort");e4 set (KEY_MAP_LIST,  the_key_map_list,  main_buffer);, set (SELF_INSERT,   the_key_map_list,  OFF);   MAP (main_window,main_buffer); message (ascii(27)+"[?25l");   ! 6 define_key ("message(ascii(27)+'[?25h');QUIT (OFF,1)",6 kp1,                                     the_key_map);6 define_key ("message(ascii(27)+'[?25h');QUIT (OFF,1)",6 KEY_NAME ("1"),                          the_key_map);  ) define_key ("scroll (current_window, 2)",h5 kp2,                                    the_key_map);l) define_key ("scroll (current_window, 2)",55 KEY_NAME ("2"),                         the_key_map);n    * define_key ("scroll (current_window, -2)",6 kp8,                                     the_key_map);* define_key ("scroll (current_window, -2)",6 KEY_NAME ("8"),                          the_key_map);  5 define_key ("scroll (current_window, window_size-3)",k6 kp6,                                     the_key_map);5 define_key ("scroll (current_window, window_size-3)",e6 KEY_NAME ("6"),                          the_key_map);  6 define_key ("scroll (current_window, -window_size+3)",7 kp4,                                      the_key_map);t6 define_key ("scroll (current_window, -window_size+3)",7 KEY_NAME ("4"),                           the_key_map);t  ) define_key ("scroll (current_window, 2)",:5 down,                                   the_key_map);r  * define_key ("scroll (current_window, -2)",6 up,                                      the_key_map); !k   Yeah! Bon appetit!   - John       Ken Fairfield wrote: > Big John wrote:e >  > > Fred Bach wrote: > [...]:< > >>   ps.  Is there any way to make TPU display the file inB > >>        doublesized letters by default?  I know how to do that > >>        in DCL.   ..fwb. > >> > >  > > @ > > That sounds like a challenge! The answer is - Yes, there is. >d= >     But the problem is under-specified!  First, do you want = > double-high/wide, or just double-wide, letters?  Second, doC: > you want to turn this on and off by a keystroke, or just  > always display the text large? > < >     I agree with John that this is a challenge, especially9 > in the context of SIMPLE.TPU...which was supposed to be-7 > simple but this adds considerable complication... :-)n >e< >     Two hints are that, for double-wide, each line of text: > must be prefixed with <esc>#6, but for double-high/wide,: > each line must be duplicated with the first of each pair? > prefixed with <esc>#3 and the second with <esc>#4.  Secondly,V; > one uses SET(TEXT,CURRENT_WINDOW,NO_TRANSLATE) to get theA< > characters displayed large in the TPU window.  (To revert,& > replace NO_TRANSLATE by BLANK_TABS.) >eB >     So you wind up reading the file into a buffer and processing= > it a line at a time, either in-place or to a second buffer,p9 > adding the prefix escape sequences as required and thenr6 > displaying the results in a window set NO_TRANSLATE. >aA >     A final complication is that if you shift the window right,a? > the text reverts to normal display (the escape sequences have " > been shifted out of the window). >d+ >     Other than that, its just a SMOP. :-)  >r > 	-Ken  > --8 > I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... >I > Ken Fairfieldr# > D1C Automation VMS System SupportA$ > who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield > where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:01:57 -0800t# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: Re: Source Listings Kit( Message-ID: <opskq75jt8zgicya@hyrrokkin>  0 On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:12:51 GMT, Keith Parris  % <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:h  J > In article <opsko6iytdzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  	 > writes: J >> I once inquired of DSPP how to get the source listings and they did not >oG > There are two parts to getting VMS Source Listings. First you buy a  hJ > license (and here being a DSPP member is very valuable, since it gives  I > you a 50% discount on this license, IIRC). Once you have the license,  1K > you buy an annual subscription to the source listings on CD (since this  :C > is a service offering, the DSPP discount is less, maybe 15% off).n >.K > I did this while I was an independent consultant. I found it invaluable  kK > to be able to see how pieces of VMS really worked inside, and what data  0A > they operated on, as I dealt with difficult performance issues.m  F Keith, while I am not adverse to paying for sush a subsrciption, the  	 amount ofnI money it generates for HP is infinitesimally small and not providing it  u freelyJ to ISV's with a need just generates ill-will.  In fact it probably costs   moreD to administer the program than the money taken in.  Time for clear   thinking here.     -- sC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/o   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 05:41:54 -08006 From: "Gazchurchend" <gary.rogers@staticsystems.co.uk>& Subject: Using PHP to access RMS filesB Message-ID: <1105969314.357576.34730@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  F We have currently upgraded to the latest open-VMS where we are runningF Apache web server (also just upgraded) along with the latest CSWS_PHP.E We currently run our Intranet from this server. As far as VMS goes weoF have a legacy system running known as IMPCON where our entire businessG info resides in the form of RMS files. The aim is to read info from theeE RMS files using PHP. Previously we have done exactly this using PERL.C  B So far we have run a test script for testing a few extensions likeF openvms_getdvi, among others, which all work ok. The big question is -4 does anyone know if you can open RMS files with PHP?  ? I cant seen to find any information on what is supported in thea php_openvms extension.  E I have to be honest I haven't got much of a clue when it comes to the B VMS side as I only work on the web side of things. Our network man7 hasn't had experience with PHP but has got us this far!c5 Any advice in this area would be most appreciated....    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 07:05:05 -0800) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com>(* Subject: Re: Using PHP to access RMS filesC Message-ID: <1105971898.990685.206230@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>>   Gazchurchend wrote (in part):oD > So far we have run a test script for testing a few extensions likeF > openvms_getdvi, among others, which all work ok. The big question is ->6 > does anyone know if you can open RMS files with PHP? >oA > I cant seen to find any information on what is supported in the  > php_openvms extension. >oG > I have to be honest I haven't got much of a clue when it comes to theVD > VMS side as I only work on the web side of things. Our network man9 > hasn't had experience with PHP but has got us this far!a7 > Any advice in this area would be most appreciated....d  D PHP on VMS can read RMS files fine using the standard file functionsB that come with PHP, as long as they are sequential files (so far IB haven't had any problems). If you want to do anything with indexedF files, you probably want to write a CGI procedure in DCL or some other	 language.d   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:03:24 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ; Subject: VMS success stories view Itanic with jaundiced eye7, Message-ID: <OK-dnfik1dE5WHbcRVn-oQ@igs.net>  L http://news.com.com/HP+to+rejuvenate+OpenVMS+on+Monday/2100-1016_3-5537046.h tmlS     ... E Itanium's troubled debut has given pause to Jess Goodman, VMS systemsNK manager at AccuWeather, who runs 34 VMS systems to process information sent1" to the company's weather Web site.  H "Certainly I'm a little bit worried about how Itanium hasn't turned intoH Intel's flagship as we had hoped," Goodman said. "I'm somewhat concernedK about the future of VMS if there's no good hardware to run it on. If no one.I is buying Itanium, will there be enough research and development money to ( keep them competitive with other chips?"  D Goodman is keeping his eyes on Itanium, but so far, "We haven't seen3 anything yet that's making me want to go," he said.u      G  But others are more excited. "We are looking forward to it," said JackuH Steinman, vice president of information services for Aurora, a nonprofitH organization that runs more than 250 hospitals, clinics and other healthK care facilities in eastern Wisconsin. Aurora needs expanded computing poweriI that the Itanium systems will provide, and will upgrade once its softwared; suppliers test and certify their Itanium versions, he said.l  L Cost will be an argument to go to the new systems, said Jim Custer, directorA of HP server product marketing for Avnet, a major HP partner thatt2 distributes and resells OpenVMS and other servers.  L "In the long run, running infrastructure on Itanium is going to be much lessH expensive on Itanium than Alpha--both the initial acquisition (cost) and. ongoing maintenance and support," Custer said.  F Even with a new low-price OpenVMS edition coming, though, HP *doesn't*K appear to be trying hard to attract new buyers, Custer said. "Their primaryeG goal is to protect the installed base and make sure the customer has anuH adequate roadmap. Gaining net new (customers) may be *secondary* at this point," he said.  I [..we all know that...it's time the Wall Street crowd and computing press " really started mentioning this...]   *emphasis* added   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:44:00 +0100w0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> Subject: Re: vms versus solarisPB Message-ID: <41eba500$0$27830$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   Neil Rieck wrote: 1 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message '$ > news:opsko7zcolzgicya@hyrrokkin... > H >>On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 08:38:16 -0500, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  >>wrote: >> >  > [...snip...] > L >>>Although I have nothing but respect for the official OpenVMS FAQ, it is aL >>>bit too technical for some situations. Some time ago I needed to produce  >>>aH >>>semi-technical comparison of UNIX and OpenVMS for my employer (targetF >>>audience: semi-technical people who have volunteered for a partial  >>>lobotomyoL >>>and are now in middle management) in order to defend our team's choice ofH >>>sticking with OpenVMS rather than jumping to LINUX. Once presented, IJ >>>removed information specific to my employer and posted the information  >>>on my >>>personal web site.t >>> 9 >>>http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/vms_vs_unix.htmlt >>' >>To your list of sectors you could adds >>Steell >>Automotive >>Semiconductors >> > D > I've already added semiconductors but didn't know about Steel and 3 > Automotive. Which companies were you thinking of?  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html >  >   I I have a recent list of 26 major companies producing Automobiles or Auto o1 Parts which are using OpenVMS in their factories.s  G In the category Steel and Metal Industry I have 24 majors listed which a are using OpenVMS today.   Cheers!e   Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 07:53:09 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)6 Subject: Re: vms versus solarisn3 Message-ID: <Ji9QBpWd$uqT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <41e94fd5$1@news.012.net.il>, "Eitan" <no_spam_please@nospam.com> writes:6 > Is there any resamblance between vms and solaris os.O > If so, then what are the main things that are simmiliar and what are not (in &
 > brief) ?      Briefly!:  
 similarities:w%    1) they are capable of timesharingy    s2    2) they have hierachical file directory systems   differences:D    1) Solaris is a UNIX, which inherits UNIX late 1960's technology,$       VMS dates from the late 1970's  A    2) VMS has a real file system, Solaris only knows byte streams'  7    3) VMS has security, Solaris claims to have security   A    4) VMS has reliability such as uptime in decades, Solaris willi"       sometimes stay up for months  C    5) VMS has user interfaces designed to deal with humans, SolarisnC       has user interfaces designed to be fast when limitted to 110 r
       baud  >    6) VMS is capable of high interupt load real-time computing  H    That's about as breif as I can get and still say anything meaningful.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2005 14:09:01 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: vms versus solarise, Message-ID: <351v7tF4f7i00U1@individual.net>  3 In article <Ji9QBpWd$uqT@eisner.encompasserve.org>,a> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:V > In article <41e94fd5$1@news.012.net.il>, "Eitan" <no_spam_please@nospam.com> writes:7 >> Is there any resamblance between vms and solaris os.tP >> If so, then what are the main things that are simmiliar and what are not (in  >> brief) ?b >  >    Briefly!: >  > similarities: ' >    1) they are capable of timesharingt >    r4 >    2) they have hierachical file directory systems >  > differences:F >    1) Solaris is a UNIX, which inherits UNIX late 1960's technology,& >       VMS dates from the late 1970's  @ Or you could say that because it came first UNIX has more than a) decade of additioneal research behind it.    > C >    2) VMS has a real file system, Solaris only knows byte streamsh  < Being as all disks store are bytes, VMS is no different.  It; just has layers on top of the lower levels that present the-? appearance of more complicated file systems with the associated > overhead and additional latency.  Unix can too, but it doesn't: force the user to live with overhead that he doesn't need.   > 9 >    3) VMS has security, Solaris claims to have securityh > C >    4) VMS has reliability such as uptime in decades, Solaris will $ >       sometimes stay up for months  > True.  Often 12 months out of the year.  This is a red herring= and even if it was true, it is not any more.  My Unix serversA< spend more time available to users than the local VMS boxes.   > E >    5) VMS has user interfaces designed to deal with humans, Solaris E >       has user interfaces designed to be fast when limitted to 110 o >       baud  C Unix has text based command line,  VMS has text based command line,a> Unix has GUI.  VMS has GUI.  What precisely is the difference?@ Both interfaces on both systems are totally configurable to look like whatever you want.r   > @ >    6) VMS is capable of high interupt load real-time computing  < So are some Unix like OSes.  I doubt Solaris is, but then, I/ don't remember seeing Sun claim it was an RTOS.    > J >    That's about as breif as I can get and still say anything meaningful.  @ And about as biased and wrong as most postings here that compareE VMS and Unix.  And to think someon had the nerve to call the originala poster a troll.h   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   l   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:30:58 GMTn* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: vms versus solarisp2 Message-ID: <SSQGd.5965$hs4.3638@news.cpqcorp.net>  3 An actual question Andrew might have been the rightd2 person for - and no Andrew (I won't say his name a* third time, it might be like BeetleJuice).    5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messageg& news:351v7tF4f7i00U1@individual.net...5 > In article <Ji9QBpWd$uqT@eisner.encompasserve.org>,4? > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:a4 > > In article <41e94fd5$1@news.012.net.il>, "Eitan"# <no_spam_please@nospam.com> writes:n9 > >> Is there any resamblance between vms and solaris os. I > >> If so, then what are the main things that are simmiliar and what areh not (ing
 > >> brief) ?l > >r > >    Briefly!: > >a > > similarities: ) > >    1) they are capable of timesharing  > >a6 > >    2) they have hierachical file directory systems > >t > > differences:H > >    1) Solaris is a UNIX, which inherits UNIX late 1960's technology,( > >       VMS dates from the late 1970's >rB > Or you could say that because it came first UNIX has more than a+ > decade of additioneal research behind it.e >i > >.E > >    2) VMS has a real file system, Solaris only knows byte streams  >e> > Being as all disks store are bytes, VMS is no different.  It= > just has layers on top of the lower levels that present theoA > appearance of more complicated file systems with the associateds@ > overhead and additional latency.  Unix can too, but it doesn't< > force the user to live with overhead that he doesn't need. >  > >o; > >    3) VMS has security, Solaris claims to have security  > > E > >    4) VMS has reliability such as uptime in decades, Solaris willo& > >       sometimes stay up for months >/@ > True.  Often 12 months out of the year.  This is a red herring? > and even if it was true, it is not any more.  My Unix serverss> > spend more time available to users than the local VMS boxes. >  > >tG > >    5) VMS has user interfaces designed to deal with humans, Solaris F > >       has user interfaces designed to be fast when limitted to 110 > >       baud >dE > Unix has text based command line,  VMS has text based command line,c@ > Unix has GUI.  VMS has GUI.  What precisely is the difference?B > Both interfaces on both systems are totally configurable to look > like whatever you want.  >  > > B > >    6) VMS is capable of high interupt load real-time computing >g> > So are some Unix like OSes.  I doubt Solaris is, but then, I1 > don't remember seeing Sun claim it was an RTOS.m >. > >LL > >    That's about as breif as I can get and still say anything meaningful. >@B > And about as biased and wrong as most postings here that compareG > VMS and Unix.  And to think someon had the nerve to call the originalz > poster a troll.u >  > bill >h > -- aL > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:21:08 -0500a# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>> Subject: Re: vms versus solarisu, Message-ID: <O_idnaAZc_BxeHbcRVn-1w@igs.net>   Neil Rieck wrote: E > "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messaged- > news:newscache$enkdai$ow22$1@news.sil.at... 3 >> In article <41e94fd5$1@news.012.net.il>, "Eitan"t& >> <no_spam_please@nospam.com> writes: > [...snip...] >>) >> For other answers read the OpenVMS FAQh# >> http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqn >> >> --a >> Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER( >> Network and OpenVMS system specialist >> E-mail  peter@langstoeger.at,A >> A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm au
 >> realist >VF > Although I have nothing but respect for the official OpenVMS FAQ, itG > is a bit too technical for some situations. Some time ago I needed top@ > produce a semi-technical comparison of UNIX and OpenVMS for myG > employer (target audience: semi-technical people who have volunteeredwF > for a partial lobotomy and are now in middle management) in order toG > defend our team's choice of sticking with OpenVMS rather than jumpingn@ > to LINUX. Once presented, I removed information specific to my> > employer and posted the information on my personal web site. >t8 > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/vms_vs_unix.html      L You forgot to mention securities exchanges and clearing systems in your list of industries.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 10:11:19 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h Subject: Re: vms versus solarisS3 Message-ID: <CUW8FUYxavVy@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  W In article <351v7tF4f7i00U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 5 > In article <Ji9QBpWd$uqT@eisner.encompasserve.org>,c@ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   >> differences:oG >>    1) Solaris is a UNIX, which inherits UNIX late 1960's technology, ' >>       VMS dates from the late 1970'sm > B > Or you could say that because it came first UNIX has more than a+ > decade of additioneal research behind it.   9 As it turns out, the designers of VMS were aware of Unix.n  D >>    2) VMS has a real file system, Solaris only knows byte streams > > > Being as all disks store are bytes, VMS is no different.  It   No, VMS hides it better.  = > just has layers on top of the lower levels that present the A > appearance of more complicated file systems with the associatedr@ > overhead and additional latency.  Unix can too, but it doesn't< > force the user to live with overhead that he doesn't need.  G Unix _could_, but in general it does not.  One cannot count on anythingOD other than the simpleton's "stream of bytes" view of a file on Unix,/ and thus cannot count on robust record locking.c  : >>    3) VMS has security, Solaris claims to have security >> eD >>    4) VMS has reliability such as uptime in decades, Solaris will% >>       sometimes stay up for monthsp > @ > True.  Often 12 months out of the year.  This is a red herring? > and even if it was true, it is not any more.  My Unix servers.> > spend more time available to users than the local VMS boxes.  9 How many years of continuous uptime for a single system ?a? Feel free to quote the world record, not just your own systems.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:35:54 -0800n# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>X Subject: Re: vms versus solarise( Message-ID: <opskq9p4olzgicya@hyrrokkin>  H On 17 Jan 2005 10:11:19 -0600, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net>   wrote:  G > In article <351v7tF4f7i00U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill  s > Gunshannon) writes:a6 >> In article <Ji9QBpWd$uqT@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:4 >  >>> differences:H >>>    1) Solaris is a UNIX, which inherits UNIX late 1960's technology,( >>>       VMS dates from the late 1970's >>C >> Or you could say that because it came first UNIX has more than aS, >> decade of additioneal research behind it. >T; > As it turns out, the designers of VMS were aware of Unix.C >eE >>>    2) VMS has a real file system, Solaris only knows byte streamsn >>? >> Being as all disks store are bytes, VMS is no different.  Ite >r > No, VMS hides it better. >t> >> just has layers on top of the lower levels that present theB >> appearance of more complicated file systems with the associatedA >> overhead and additional latency.  Unix can too, but it doesn't.= >> force the user to live with overhead that he doesn't need.u >kI > Unix _could_, but in general it does not.  One cannot count on anythingiF > other than the simpleton's "stream of bytes" view of a file on Unix,1 > and thus cannot count on robust record locking.h3 Unless you use PL/I which provides an ISAM package.o > ; >>>    3) VMS has security, Solaris claims to have securityt >>>oE >>>    4) VMS has reliability such as uptime in decades, Solaris wills& >>>       sometimes stay up for months >>A >> True.  Often 12 months out of the year.  This is a red herringt@ >> and even if it was true, it is not any more.  My Unix servers? >> spend more time available to users than the local VMS boxes.  >e; > How many years of continuous uptime for a single system ?tA > Feel free to quote the world record, not just your own systems.r       -- mC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 11:14:04 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)r Subject: Re: vms versus solariss- Message-ID: <NykjWeviGe8o@cuebid.zko.dec.com>e  + "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:h > K > As others have pointed out in this newsgroup, there are two OpenVMS code  M > bases: one for VAX and one for "Alpha and Itanium". I'm only assuming that nL > the problems discovered during the port/rewrite made it back into the VAX  > base but who knows for sure?  G While I didn't work on the port to I64, I can say with a high degree ofrH confidence that little, if anything, made it back into the VAX code as aI result of the porting work.  The two source pools are so widely divergentsI by now that it's highly unlikely any VAX-related problems would have beene5 found and fixed as a result of the Alpha to I64 work.o   -- e  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com3   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:06:14 -0800c# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>w Subject: Re: vms versus solarisi( Message-ID: <opskra4oh3zgicya@hyrrokkin>  J On 17 Jan 2005 11:14:04 -0500, Rob Brooks <brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam>   wrote:  - > "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:l >>K >> As others have pointed out in this newsgroup, there are two OpenVMS code J >> bases: one for VAX and one for "Alpha and Itanium". I'm only assuming   >> thatsJ >> the problems discovered during the port/rewrite made it back into the   >> VAX >> base but who knows for sure?n >dI > While I didn't work on the port to I64, I can say with a high degree oftJ > confidence that little, if anything, made it back into the VAX code as aK > result of the porting work.  The two source pools are so widely divergent K > by now that it's highly unlikely any VAX-related problems would have beend7 > found and fixed as a result of the Alpha to I64 work.c >r( Are Alpha and I64 the same source pools?     -- tC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 11:48:23 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r Subject: Re: vms versus solarisi3 Message-ID: <cvEH32MDPPdv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <351v7tF4f7i00U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:i > > > Being as all disks store are bytes, VMS is no different.  It= > just has layers on top of the lower levels that present theoA > appearance of more complicated file systems with the associatedb@ > overhead and additional latency.  Unix can too, but it doesn't< > force the user to live with overhead that he doesn't need. >   E    If you can find those extra layers in UNIX, please let the rest ofvE    us know where they are hiding.  In the meantime if you want a bytevH    stream file, that's just fine with VMS.  With VMS you get to choose,     the OS does not force you.t  @ > True.  Often 12 months out of the year.  This is a red herring? > and even if it was true, it is not any more.  My Unix serverse> > spend more time available to users than the local VMS boxes.  8    Its not a red herring when my Solaris boxes are down.   >  >> tF >>    5) VMS has user interfaces designed to deal with humans, SolarisF >>       has user interfaces designed to be fast when limitted to 110 
 >>       baud  > E > Unix has text based command line,  VMS has text based command line, @ > Unix has GUI.  VMS has GUI.  What precisely is the difference?  G    The precise difference is "VMS has user interfaces designed to deal iE    with humans, Solaris has user interfaces designed to be fast when r    limitted to 110 baud"  B > Both interfaces on both systems are totally configurable to look > like whatever you want.t  A    Yeah, right, show me where I can get ls to be case insensitiven    on my Solaris system.  A >>    6) VMS is capable of high interupt load real-time computingd >t> > So are some Unix like OSes.  I doubt Solaris is, but then, I1 > don't remember seeing Sun claim it was an RTOS.B  D    UNIX like, yes, but the question was VMS vs. Solaris, not VMS vs.    some UNIX-like OS.l  o  B > And about as biased and wrong as most postings here that compareG > VMS and Unix.  And to think someon had the nerve to call the originale > poster a troll.i  H    Bull.  You never did like the truth.  Just because Solaris meets some6    of your needs does not invalidate any of my points.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 11:52:34 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s Subject: Re: vms versus solaris 3 Message-ID: <NS0kicKajYPr@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  N In article <opskq9p4olzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  5 > Unless you use PL/I which provides an ISAM package.l  F    Solaris comes with PL/I now?  The last time I looked Solaris didn't    even come with a C compiler.r  D    We were talking VMS vs. Solaris as OS, not all the things you can    buy on top of them.  ?    Heck, the last time I looked both HP-UX and Solaris had ISAMmB    capabilities in thier Fortran-77 support in order to claim "VAX    Fortran" compatability.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2005 18:14:40 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: vms versus solarisa, Message-ID: <352dkgF4gilpkU2@individual.net>  ( In article <opskq9p4olzgicya@hyrrokkin>,& 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:J > On 17 Jan 2005 10:11:19 -0600, Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net>   > wrote: > H >> In article <351v7tF4f7i00U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill   >> Gunshannon) writes:7 >>> In article <Ji9QBpWd$uqT@eisner.encompasserve.org>,eB >>> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> >>>> differences: I >>>>    1) Solaris is a UNIX, which inherits UNIX late 1960's technology,0) >>>>       VMS dates from the late 1970's  >>> D >>> Or you could say that because it came first UNIX has more than a- >>> decade of additioneal research behind it.g >>< >> As it turns out, the designers of VMS were aware of Unix. >>F >>>>    2) VMS has a real file system, Solaris only knows byte streams >>> @ >>> Being as all disks store are bytes, VMS is no different.  It >> >> No, VMS hides it better.e >>? >>> just has layers on top of the lower levels that present theoC >>> appearance of more complicated file systems with the associated B >>> overhead and additional latency.  Unix can too, but it doesn't> >>> force the user to live with overhead that he doesn't need. >>J >> Unix _could_, but in general it does not.  One cannot count on anythingG >> other than the simpleton's "stream of bytes" view of a file on Unix,o2 >> and thus cannot count on robust record locking.5 > Unless you use PL/I which provides an ISAM package.n  B Well, there's also C-ISAM, but I really consider them to be little5 more than libraries and not on the same scale as RMS.s  A Hmmmmm.   Wonder how truly difficult it would be to implement RMSy@ on Unix?  I wonder if people would actually use it?  Has FreeVMS done a free version of RMS yet?      bill   -- hJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2005 18:11:35 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: vms versus solaris1, Message-ID: <352demF4gilpkU1@individual.net>  3 In article <CUW8FUYxavVy@eisner.encompasserve.org>,e0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:Y > In article <351v7tF4f7i00U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:w6 >> In article <Ji9QBpWd$uqT@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:i >  >>> differences:H >>>    1) Solaris is a UNIX, which inherits UNIX late 1960's technology,( >>>       VMS dates from the late 1970's >> eC >> Or you could say that because it came first UNIX has more than ae, >> decade of additioneal research behind it. > ; > As it turns out, the designers of VMS were aware of Unix.n  @ So is it an advantage or disadvantage?  People here always stateB it as if being older is somehow a bad thing.  As if, at some magic? point in time, all researech and development for Unix came to a2 stop while VMS moved forward,n   > E >>>    2) VMS has a real file system, Solaris only knows byte streamsf >> ;? >> Being as all disks store are bytes, VMS is no different.  Itn >  > No, VMS hides it better.  # Wether the user wants it to or not.p   > > >> just has layers on top of the lower levels that present theB >> appearance of more complicated file systems with the associatedA >> overhead and additional latency.  Unix can too, but it doesn'tD= >> force the user to live with overhead that he doesn't need._ > - > Unix _could_, but in general it does not.  e  B Which is, of course, what it's users want.  Don't burden everybody to the advantage a few.e  H >                                           One cannot count on anythingF > other than the simpleton's "stream of bytes" view of a file on Unix,1 > and thus cannot count on robust record locking.   D There are alternatives that provide records and thus record locking.C When Unix users need this feature they use it.  But more oftne thanc@ not, they don't need it.  Neither do they need the overhead such systems bring with them.   > ; >>>    3) VMS has security, Solaris claims to have security  >>> E >>>    4) VMS has reliability such as uptime in decades, Solaris will8& >>>       sometimes stay up for months >>  A >> True.  Often 12 months out of the year.  This is a red herring @ >> and even if it was true, it is not any more.  My Unix servers? >> spend more time available to users than the local VMS boxes.  > ; > How many years of continuous uptime for a single system ?i  ? Considering that I (and I am sure many others) can not count ona? the power staying up that long, what's the point? I have Ultrix_? machines at home that only go down when the power company fallsyD down on the job.  We have places locally (including many businesses)B that are just coming out of nearly two weeks of no power.  I doubt( they make a UPS that could outlast that.  A > Feel free to quote the world record, not just your own systems.r  > Meaningless.  Just like the Irish Railway "perpetual VAX" that> int he end turned out to not be a single machine at all.  If IC (or my sers) cared, I could even do rolling upgrades of my hardware D (for now, I only do that for OS upgrades) and have the same "system"B records.  But the target is to meet my users needs.  Anything else@ is useless marketing.  Which, makes you wonder why anyone bother! for VMS as there is no marketing.   C Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with VMS.  There is alsolB nothing wrong with Unix.  They both meet the needs of their users. That is all that matters.c   bill   -- EJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   l   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2005 12:54:07 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)X Subject: Re: vms versus solaris - Message-ID: <ZuF4lMiFRDGb@cuebid.zko.dec.com>P  % "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:S1 >Rob Brooks <brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:i  J >> While I didn't work on the port to I64, I can say with a high degree ofK >> confidence that little, if anything, made it back into the VAX code as aaL >> result of the porting work.  The two source pools are so widely divergentL >> by now that it's highly unlikely any VAX-related problems would have been8 >> found and fixed as a result of the Alpha to I64 work. >>* > Are Alpha and I64 the same source pools?  N Yes, although certain components are not shared between the two architectures.G For instance, anything to do with images and object files is completely 5 separate, since the I64 uses ELF object/image format.:  E However, it is a single source pool for Alpha and I64.  The multipath5L subsystem (written in C), for example, is completely identical between AlphaM and I64; there is not even any conditional compilation.  The shadowing driver1N (which used to be common across VAX and Alpha up until about a year ago and isD written in MACRO-32) is common across Alpha and I64, with just a fewM differences due to conditional compilation (because of the differences in thet( calling standard between Alpha and I64).  I The way that the shadowing driver was kept "common" between VAX and Alpha I was by a rather torturous set of macros that attempted to isolate the VAXIJ and Alpha differences.  It made maintenance a real pain, as the driver wasE so heavily conditonally compiled that it made following the code flow N a real challenge and we decided to make the driver VAX- and Alpha/I64-specific1 during the work for Host-Based Minimerge (HBMM). t   -- o  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comd   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:28:45 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>o Subject: Re: vms versus solarisi, Message-ID: <41EC03DD.8BB0ED1A@teksavvy.com>   Keith Cayemberg wrote:J > I have a recent list of 26 major companies producing Automobiles or Auto3 > Parts which are using OpenVMS in their factories.r > H > In the category Steel and Metal Industry I have 24 majors listed which > are using OpenVMS today.  G So, if HP mentions "manufacturing" as one of the remaining niches whereh; VMS still has a presence, wouldn't that include the above ?P  F What would be nice is if enough of those customers were willing to letC ue use their names from time to time as a reference site. This way,hH instead of constantly mentioning Cerner and some other customer over andF over again, the little VMS marketing that happens could vary the namesH of customers from a longer list. Over time, readers would see that it isE more than 2 remaining customers and that there is still a fairly wella spread out base of customers.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:39:29 -0500r# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tG Subject: Will we hear carly(tm) talk about anything like this tomorrow?e, Message-ID: <JvGdnaBBT-y0QXbcRVn-jw@igs.net>  : $100 sez HP will do nothing to promote VMS with ammo like.      2 http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20030924S0008  1 Reliance On Microsoft Danger To National Securitym" September 24, 2003 (3:38 p.m. EST) By Gregg Keizer , TechWeb News  C A panel of leading security experts Wednesday blasted Microsoft fornI vulnerabilities in its software, and warned that reliance on the Redmond,-D Wash.-based developer's software is a danger to both enterprises and national security.L The group, which debuted its report at the first day of a two-day conferenceH hosted by the Computer & Communications Industry Association (CCIA), wasF headed by Dan Geer, the chief technology officer of @Stake, a security consulting firm.  J "As fast as the world's computing infrastructure is growing, vulnerability. to attack is growing faster still," said Geer.  G "Microsoft's attempts to tightly integrate myriad applications with itssK operating system have significantly contributed to excessive complexity and G vulnerability. This deterioration of security compounds when nearly alln? computers rely on a single operating system subject to the samen, vulnerabilities the world over," Geer added.  H Ed Black, the CEO and president of CCIA, whose members include Microsoft8 competitors such as Sun and Oracle, was even more blunt.  L "Microsoft's monopoly threatens consumers in a number of ways, it it's clearJ it is now also a threat to our security, our safety, and even our national
 security."   ......... more.....-   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.034 ************************