0 INFO-VAX	Sun, 23 Jan 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 45      Contents: AMD the true Titanic?  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Berkely DBC Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips G Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips G Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips 8 Re: Connecting VAX VMS (5.2) to PC (Windows 2000 Server) Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question 8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA. DVE crash (was: Re: Q: Experience with HBMM ?)2 Re: DVE crash (was: Re: Q: Experience with HBMM ?)1 Re: Marcello predicts 500% perfomance improvement 1 Re: Marcello predicts 500% perfomance improvement 1 Re: Marcello predicts 500% perfomance improvement 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS ! Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Docs on web page?  OpenVMS C Compiler. Re: Problem with htpasswd.exe in Apache (CSWS) Re: Q: Experience with HBMM ?  Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris Re: vms versus solaris3 RE: Why growing the VMS installed base is important   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 22 Jan 2005 16:06:50 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  Subject: AMD the true Titanic?3 Message-ID: <GH4OAQU9D27r@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <41EF3B60.10805@tsoft-inc.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   > P > I always like it when some know-it-all predicts what's going to happen, based Q > upon their wishes.  Rob sure called it right on HAMMER, huh?  Like they say in  Q > football, when upsets happen.  "That's why they play the game."  Well Rob, the   > game isn't over yet. >   ) 	Abandoning the good ship AMD it appears:   ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20859   C The document said that employee satisfaction correlates to customer M satisfaction, and produces figures showing "an alarming gap" about the number O of staff likely to stay with AMD for the next 12 months, at only 60 per cent or  so.    ---   D 	Don't know about you all , but I changed jobs twice when I realizedA 	the company I was with didn't have a future.  I'd say a turnover 0 	rate of 40% is a sign of a company in distress.   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jan 2005 20:42:10 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> " Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms7 Message-ID: <Xns95E6DD02DF41Cdcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>   E %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, JF Mezei wrote in news:41F2BB04.706220F7@teksavvy.com    <snip>  0 Not everyone is quite as pessimistic as you, JF.     Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:43:50 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Apathy on comp.os.vms, Message-ID: <41F2BB04.706220F7@teksavvy.com>  D Last week, there was an announcement by Ann Livermore that HP wasn'tN interested in growing VMS and was happy just keeping the installed base happy.    H I years past, this would have generated a huge flurry of message on thisE newsgroup with smoke coming out of people's ears who coudln't believe H someone would say this, how HP was killing its cash cow etc etc etc etc.  H Yet, this week, this was announced, and people seemed resigned to accept it without much of a comment.   > VMS is being ported to a dying platform nobody wants, HP isn'tE interested in growing VMS.  Linux is free and growing. Are people now G resigned to the inevitable and don't have the energy to fight anymore ?    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jan 2005 12:53:54 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> " Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vmsB Message-ID: <1106427234.623196.37790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  E If you sort the topics by time of first message posting you will find ? we had a total of 3 new threads on technical issues rather than H "political" ones.  Obviously we needed to have the pot stirred again. ;)   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jan 2005 15:56:37 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) " Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms3 Message-ID: <t3d695Scz4w9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <41F2BB04.706220F7@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  F > Last week, there was an announcement by Ann Livermore that HP wasn'tP > interested in growing VMS and was happy just keeping the installed base happy.   	Spin.  J > Yet, this week, this was announced, and people seemed resigned to accept > it without much of a comment.   : 	Like CBS, depends on the spin.  JF you've been fudding up  	VMS for so long , it's pitiful.  7 	I suppose you care to ignore Mark Gohram's report that ; 	10-15% of VMS customers are new customers and that VMS has  	been growing recently.   A http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=05/01/18/0435366   O Mark: The OpenVMS business has seen recent growth in the low double digits year G over year. It should also be noted that between 10 to 15 percent of our 4 business comes for accounts that are new to OpenVMS.  @ > VMS is being ported to a dying platform nobody wants, HP isn'tG > interested in growing VMS.  Linux is free and growing. Are people now I > resigned to the inevitable and don't have the energy to fight anymore ?   ? 	Look JF , we've seen your drivel for so long.  Here's a clue - E 	you're in so many kill files you won't get much response either way. B 	And how many people care to respond to year after year after year 	of:   			Death of VMS   5 From: mezei...@eisner.decus.org (Jean-Francois Mezei) " Subject: Meaning of OpenVMS vs VMS Date: 1996/02/04  I If you hear someone say VMS, it means that they have not succombed to the L meaningless marketing fluff that harmed VMS more than it helped by confusing4 customers who were already fearing the death of VMS.   ---   @ 	Not many JF.  And don't patronize me with that "Mr. Young" crud 	that is getting old too.    				Rob   N "Of the whole rabble of thieves, the fools are the worst; they rob you of both) time and peace of mind."         --Goethe    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jan 2005 22:13:48 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> " Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms7 Message-ID: <Xns95E6EC6A9BA6Bdcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>   2 %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote in 9 news:1106427234.623196.37790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com   G > If you sort the topics by time of first message posting you will find A > we had a total of 3 new threads on technical issues rather than J > "political" ones.  Obviously we needed to have the pot stirred again. ;)  I I'd even say one of the complaints I saw recently was a positive point.   ? Namely someone complaining that we were getting oodles of Unix  I compatibility stuff.  I don't think there's anything wrong with lowering  B the bar for porting from Unix to VMS.  Once on VMS developers can = (hopefully) be seduced into using platform-specific features.      Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:14:12 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>" Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms2 Message-ID: <csuj7u$tld$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>   JF Mezei wrote: F > Last week, there was an announcement by Ann Livermore that HP wasn'tP > interested in growing VMS and was happy just keeping the installed base happy.  Q That has always been HP's policy, and they made no secret of it. HP's management  Q doesn't know what to do with something that isn't "industry standard" (Windooz /  N Linux), or is in name industry standard (hp UNIX). They are just to scared to O try to market something that is entirely different from what any other company  M is selling. They are scared to get a reputation among the Gartners etc. that  Q they are trying to sell something that should not be there anymore. These people  N don't have a spine, they just want to sell what is easy to sell. On the other O hand they are quite happy bragging about the fact that VMS is doing so well in  O hospitals, financial institutions and intelligence services. Compare them with  N   illiterate parents who fathered a child that became a Nobel prize winner in P quantum mechanics. They are proud of their child, but don't have a clue what it 	 is doing.    >  > J > I years past, this would have generated a huge flurry of message on thisG > newsgroup with smoke coming out of people's ears who coudln't believe J > someone would say this, how HP was killing its cash cow etc etc etc etc. > J > Yet, this week, this was announced, and people seemed resigned to accept > it without much of a comment.  > @ > VMS is being ported to a dying platform nobody wants, HP isn'tG > interested in growing VMS.  Linux is free and growing. Are people now I > resigned to the inevitable and don't have the energy to fight anymore ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:44:40 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: Berkely DB ; Message-ID: <41f30f98.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   , John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote: > Keith Cayemberg wrote:H >> Yes, Berkeley DB does provide a record management service, and to my D >> knowledge it will run on nearly all operating systems, including  >> OpenVMS.  > M > If you know of a working port of Berkely DB to OpenVMS, please post a link.  > H > A working port or simulation of it is one of the needed components to . > port the Red-Hat Package Manager to OpenVMS. > K > The closest that I can find is: http://www.sleepycat.com/ which seems to  J > be the supplier of the Berkely DB to the few LINUX distributions that I  > have checked.   G My port of ht://Dig to VMS contains a (slightly modified, IIRC) version H of Berkeley DB 2.6.4. As I haven't looked into getting Tcl to run (whichG is the language the test suite is written in), I couldn't really verify 
 it all works.    cu,    Martin --  >                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de D  Microsoft wants        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jan 2005 13:47:47 -0500! From: adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) L Subject: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips+ Message-ID: <csu74j$ken$1@panix5.panix.com>   ' What's chips is VMS going to run on ?     B I just looked thru all the posts with "itanium" in the subject andD don't have a clear conclusion.  I see that HP has no plan on VMS forF AMD. From reading the trade press I gather that Itanuim is someting to9 walk away from.  I assume Alpha is in it's end of life.     C I think Intel is extending it's x86 architecture to 64 bits because > Itanuim isn't happening and AMD it eating Intel's lunch in the comodity 64 bit market.   = If I'm right, How much longer will Itanuim chips be amde, and  what else is there for VMS ?    A I'm sure this has been hashed over, already, but I can't find it.    Thanks.    --      a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m   ! Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:36:51 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> P Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips, Message-ID: <41F2B962.FE815FC9@teksavvy.com>   Al Dykes wrote: F > don't have a clear conclusion.  I see that HP has no plan on VMS for > AMD.    E HP has not admitted publicly to having plans to port VMS, HPUX and/or O Tandem to the 8086 architecture. This does not mean that they don't have plans.    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:15:54 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)P Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips1 Message-ID: <newscache$hioqai$bb61$1@news.sil.at>   O In article <csu74j$ken$1@panix5.panix.com>, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) writes: ( >What's chips is VMS going to run on ?     Still VAX, Alpha and Itanic.J And with VAX emulators (like CHARON-VAX, SIMH and TS10) on others as well.   C >I just looked thru all the posts with "itanium" in the subject and E >don't have a clear conclusion.  I see that HP has no plan on VMS for G >AMD. From reading the trade press I gather that Itanuim is someting to : >walk away from.  I assume Alpha is in it's end of life.    F Alpha is fast enough for most of us. Especially EV7 systems have a bigF advantage with their internal system layout. Systems should be cheaperG of course now that Alpha speed improvements won't come any more (though G Marvels seems way cheaper than wildfires). But you could buy Alphas for N some more years. And most of us will do this (and start playing with the pig).   D >I think Intel is extending it's x86 architecture to 64 bits because? >Itanuim isn't happening and AMD it eating Intel's lunch in the  >comodity 64 bit market.  F Which is exactly what was predicted here in this group for a couple of
 years now.  E Is it better to be pessimistic and be right (most of the times) or be H optimistic and get disappointed (almost ever) ? Is the glass half full ?  > >If I'm right, How much longer will Itanuim chips be amde, and >what else is there for VMS ?   F Itanium chips will be made as long as vendors buy them. And HP has putG all eggs in one basket and therefor will buy them (probably until AMD64 G reach 128 CPU systems - I heard AMDs are almost on 64 CPU systems now).   H We only can hope, that someone in OpenVMS engineering starts the port ofH (the now much more portable) OpenVMS to IA32-64 real soon, now that the H Itanic port is officially done (but far from being perfect or finished).  F But don't count on that. You can lead a donkey to water, but you can'tG force it to drink. Isn't it said seeing now the third company going out 5 of business only by insisting to not market OpenVMS ?   B >I'm sure this has been hashed over, already, but I can't find it.  ; http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/integrity/faqs2.html > (better file this document for a laugh/whine some years later)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:52:39 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)A Subject: Re: Connecting VAX VMS (5.2) to PC (Windows 2000 Server) 1 Message-ID: <newscache$rnkqai$b261$1@news.sil.at>   d In article <1106411825.099439.172680@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, mark_doherty@yahoo.co.uk writes:A >It appears that Kermit 95 does not support DECnet or LAT without  >Pathworks 32 (7+)  H Yes. Just like other products (like the eXcursion X11 Server for Win32). So better keep with TCP/IP.   3 >                    (and pathworks needs open vms)   D What ? PATHWORKS-32 has nothing in common with PATHWORKS for OpenVMSF (now called Advanced Server for OpenVMS) or PATHWORKS for Digital UNIX> (now called Advanced Server for Tru64) except this (old) name.  ( PATHWORKS-32 is a package of 3 products:M 1) an DECnet and LAT stack for Win32 (for use by NetBIOS/SMB, eXcursion, ...) M 2) an X11 Server for Win32 named eXcursion (supporting IP and DECnet and LAT) + 3) an Terminal Emulator called PowerTerm525 F all products can be used independantly. The license covers legally all/ of the products, technically it is not checked.   , 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/pathworks32/  I PATHWORKS (was the name from V4 to V6, before it was called PCSA and even I DECnet-DOS, since V7 it is named Advanced Server) is a NT3.51 (V6) or NT4 M (V7) compatible SMB file/print server (supporting IP and DECnet and NetBEUI). G It is not restricted to OpenVMS. (It roots are in M$ NT code, ported by 0 AT&T to U**X, ported by DEC/CPQ/HPQ to OpenVMS).  / 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/advancedserver/   H >                                                    so I suppose that I' >will have to use a TCP/IP stack (CMU).    I recommend TCPware.  ' >Are there performance issues with CMU?   I Don't know. It is old VAX only freeware, missing some essential pieces...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:26:16 -0500 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> " Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question1 Message-ID: <uNednXA3hZKmYG_cRVn-rw@adelphia.com>    johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: A > Thanks John.  Maybe this will work then.  The Avovent KVM has a E > "version" page and when I check it while it is connected to a Win2k G > machine it says the keyboard mode is "2" with a 101/104 key keyboard, H > while when it is connected to the VMS system it is mode "3".  This KVM0 > uses the "Print Screen" key to switch systems.  I The "Print Screen/SYS REQ" key is F18 on the LK461, but I do not know if  H it is shifted or not for each function code.  I have not used the Print F Screen on a PC in years, and have never seen an application that used  the "SYS REQ" key.   >  Currently I have noF > problem switching back and forth between the two using a standard PCH > keyboard, but I really want something more compatible with TPU/EDT/etc7 > so I've been looking at the LK46X series.  I also use F > telnet/PuTTY/XWindows to access the VMS systems mostly once they areH > set up on the network. I'm hoping the terminal emulator will also work< > with the LK46X keyboards. Looks like experimentation time.  @ Windows 2000/98/XP appears to work with the LK46x in my limited F experiments.  Most of the labeled keys work as expected, and I do not L remember when the last time I needed to use the unlabeled functions on a PC.  I It also appears that in my limited tests that the Pathworks 32 Powerterm  G terminal emulator also recognized the additional LK keys that I tried.  > I have not tried other terminal emulators, and I did not do a  comprehensive test.   I An estimate of how the keys may work on a Windows PC can be found at the   following links:  : http://www.encompasserve.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/VMS/3141.8  : http://www.encompasserve.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/VMS/3141.9  I It also appears that when the Left Alt F19 changes the Motif mouse mode,  I only the Left Alt F19 changes it back.  The same for using the Right Alt   key.  * Let us know how your experimentation goes.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:16:29 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question, Message-ID: <41F308EB.F7ED98E2@teksavvy.com>   "John E. Malmberg" wrote: I > it is shifted or not for each function code.  I have not used the Print G > Screen on a PC in years, and have never seen an application that used  > the "SYS REQ" key.  ? SYS REQ would be a 3270 feature, probably used by 3270 terminal # emulators running on DOS back then.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:53:33 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA , Message-ID: <CP6dncxyvbSjMm_cRVn-2A@igs.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:B > In article <41f284c5$0$812$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,4 > Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>D >>> In article <41f237b0$0$821$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,6 >>> Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes: >>>  >>>>$ >>>> MoS | Museum of Science, Boston >>>> http://www.tcm.org/ >>>> >>>  >>> C >>> Isn't this the place that trashed all their real computer stuff ? >>> including stuff that had been donated by people like Dennis A >>> Ritchie?  I sure didn't see anything vintage computer related  >>> on thier website.  >>>  >>> bill >>> F >> Could be. That is maybe why they are no longer call themselves "TheB >> Computer Museum" (TCM). Then it is good that such proposals are >> discussed in a forum. >> >> Thanks Bill.  >> > A > I have wanted to start a computer museum here at the University ? > for a long time.  I figured if I could get commitments from a @ > few corporations for operating funds I could probably convince> > the University to give me the necessary space.  But I really= > don't know how to go about finding corporate sponsers.  :-( > > My idea is to have a real hands on facility where people can= > come in and actually play with the equipment.  I would also > > make as much of it as I could available on the INTERNET with9 > guest accounts.  But, I'm probably just dreaming again.     > The Smithsonian ought to be interested in something like this.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:19:05 GMT ) From: patrick jankowiak <eccm@swbell.net> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA ) Message-ID: <41F31791.4030709@swbell.net>    Thanks for the update. Is nothing sacred?   OPCOM    Keith Cayemberg wrote:   > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > C >> In article <41f237b0$0$821$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>, 9 >>     Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes:  >> >>> # >>> MoS | Museum of Science, Boston  >>> http://www.tcm.org/  >>>  >> >>B >> Isn't this the place that trashed all their real computer stuff> >> including stuff that had been donated by people like Dennis@ >> Ritchie?  I sure didn't see anything vintage computer related >> on thier website. >> >> bill  >>F > Could be. That is maybe why they are no longer call themselves "The B > Computer Museum" (TCM). Then it is good that such proposals are  > discussed in a forum.  >  > Thanks Bill. >  > Cheer! >  > Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:17:30 GMT ) From: patrick jankowiak <eccm@swbell.net> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA % Message-ID: <41F31732.304@swbell.net>   > I have not contacted all of those, I will try to contact them.   Thanks,  OPCOM    Keith Cayemberg wrote:   > patrick jankowiak wrote: > ; >> %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM, <21-JAN-2005 22:21:50.00> %%%%%%%%%%% 6 >> Device DEC$MUSEUM: DFWCUG_HCPS has been dismounted. >>8 >> Normally would not post for sale but this is special. >>2 >> http://www.montagar.com/~patj/hcsale/index.html >>! >> Serious inquiries only please. 0 >> Replies to this message will not be received. >> Contact info is at the URL. >> >> BR, >> OPCOM >  >  > A > Have you contacted the computer museum community? Although many A > rely on donations, by such a collection, they might even try to B > find a sponsor (or sponsors) to acquire the collection for them. >  > $ > History of computing organizations" > http://vmoc.museophile.org/#orgs > 3 > Computer History Association of California (CHAC)  > http://www.chac.org/chac/  >  > Computer History Museum ! > http://www.computerhistory.org/  >  > Computer Museum of America! > http://www.computer-museum.org/  >  > American Computer Museum > http://www.compustory.com/ > : > University of Virginia Computer Science: Computer Museum1 > http://www.cs.virginia.edu/brochure/museum.html  > ) > University of Amsterdam Computer Museum - > http://www.science.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/  > ( > Blinkenlights Archaeological Institute > http://www.blinkenlights.com/  > 
 > VintageTech  > http://www.vintagetech.com/  >  > ClassicCmp > http://www.classiccmp.org/ >  > Deutsches Museum, Mnchen % > http://www.weller.to/mus/mus_dm.htm  > " > HNF - Heinz Nixdorf MuseumsForum > http://www.hnf.de/ > ! > MoS | Museum of Science, Boston  > http://www.tcm.org/  > ) > The Retro-Computing Society of RI, Inc.  > http://www.osfn.org/rcs/ >  > Science Museum - London " > http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/ >  > The Jefferson Computer Museum  > http://www.threedee.com/jcm/ >  > 	 > Cheers!  >  > Keith Cayemberg  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:27:01 GMT ) From: patrick jankowiak <eccm@swbell.net> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA ) Message-ID: <41F3196B.4080708@swbell.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:  B > In article <41f284c5$0$812$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,5 > 	Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes:  >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >>C >>>In article <41f237b0$0$821$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>, 6 >>>	Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes: >>>  >>> # >>>>MoS | Museum of Science, Boston  >>>>http://www.tcm.org/  >>>> >>>  >>> B >>>Isn't this the place that trashed all their real computer stuff> >>>including stuff that had been donated by people like Dennis@ >>>Ritchie?  I sure didn't see anything vintage computer related >>>on thier website. >>>  >>>bill  >>>  >>F >>Could be. That is maybe why they are no longer call themselves "The B >>Computer Museum" (TCM). Then it is good that such proposals are  >>discussed in a forum.  >> >>Thanks Bill. >> >  > A > I have wanted to start a computer museum here at the University ? > for a long time.  I figured if I could get commitments from a @ > few corporations for operating funds I could probably convince> > the University to give me the necessary space.  But I really= > don't know how to go about finding corporate sponsers.  :-( > > My idea is to have a real hands on facility where people can= > come in and actually play with the equipment.  I would also > > make as much of it as I could available on the INTERNET with9 > guest accounts.  But, I'm probably just dreaming again.  >  > bill >   A I have some experience with such entities. Unless permanent space 4 is allocated, items are often eventually disposed of> unceremoniously and in an ugly manner. I witnessed this at the= "texas broadcast museum". The volunteers were suddenly locked = out, and the BOD privately sold off many assets to line their ? own pockets, and the stuff that was too big to sell was trashed ; (including the Voice of America broadcasting console and an A ancient 5000 watt RCA AM transmitter) and the place now converted @ to guided tours hands-off, beginning and ending in the gift shop> which had been the tech lab where exhibits were serviced.. May the BOD rot for that disgrace.  @ I am not saying that's what would happen, but I am concerned forA the future of our historical charges and the legacy they bespeak.   / http://www.montagar.com/~patj/hcsale/index.html    OPCOM    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:40:54 GMT ) From: patrick jankowiak <eccm@swbell.net> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA ) Message-ID: <41F31CAE.6000803@swbell.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:     > A > I have wanted to start a computer museum here at the University ? > for a long time.  I figured if I could get commitments from a @ > few corporations for operating funds I could probably convince> > the University to give me the necessary space.  But I really= > don't know how to go about finding corporate sponsers.  :-( > > My idea is to have a real hands on facility where people can= > come in and actually play with the equipment.  I would also > > make as much of it as I could available on the INTERNET with9 > guest accounts.  But, I'm probably just dreaming again.  >  > bill >    Bill,    I wish we could do this. There's a hell of a datacenter here just waiting to be unzipped. It's what we wanted.. (makes me want to listen to "all we ever wanted" by Bauhaus) Man I am trying to keep a good mindset but this step is  -    getting me down. It has to be done though.    OPCOM    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:35:00 GMT ) From: patrick jankowiak <eccm@swbell.net> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA ) Message-ID: <41F31B4C.9030206@swbell.net>    John Smith wrote:    > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > B >>In article <41f284c5$0$812$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,4 >>Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes: >> >>>Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>>  >>> D >>>>In article <41f237b0$0$821$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,6 >>>>Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes: >>>> >>>>$ >>>>>MoS | Museum of Science, Boston >>>>>http://www.tcm.org/ >>>>>  >>>> >>>>C >>>>Isn't this the place that trashed all their real computer stuff ? >>>>including stuff that had been donated by people like Dennis A >>>>Ritchie?  I sure didn't see anything vintage computer related  >>>>on thier website.  >>>> >>>>bill >>>> >>> F >>>Could be. That is maybe why they are no longer call themselves "TheB >>>Computer Museum" (TCM). Then it is good that such proposals are >>>discussed in a forum. >>>  >>>Thanks Bill.  >>>  >>A >>I have wanted to start a computer museum here at the University ? >>for a long time.  I figured if I could get commitments from a @ >>few corporations for operating funds I could probably convince> >>the University to give me the necessary space.  But I really= >>don't know how to go about finding corporate sponsers.  :-( > >>My idea is to have a real hands on facility where people can= >>come in and actually play with the equipment.  I would also > >>make as much of it as I could available on the INTERNET with9 >>guest accounts.  But, I'm probably just dreaming again.  >  >  > @ > The Smithsonian ought to be interested in something like this. >  >  I just shot them an e-mail.    Patrick    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jan 2005 14:06:18 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 7 Subject: DVE crash (was: Re: Q: Experience with HBMM ?) 3 Message-ID: <4XD$CwWKnVGY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <41f2a608$0$13381$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk>, "Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes:    > N > Had a crash on that cluster last night HBMM worked great (although the crash) > was with DVE, another of Rob's areas :)  >   9 	Could you please provide details about your "DVE" crash?   ) 	Were you expanding a volume at the time? 0 	VMS level, shadow patch level, F11x patch level  . 	Any and all detail would be much appreciated.   				Thanks,    					Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:59:15 -0000 6 From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk>; Subject: Re: DVE crash (was: Re: Q: Experience with HBMM ?) 6 Message-ID: <41f2e8e0$0$13394$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:4XD$CwWKnVGY@eisner.encompasserve.org... G > In article <41f2a608$0$13381$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk>, "Alex Daniels" ) <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk> writes:  >  > > J > > Had a crash on that cluster last night HBMM worked great (although the crash + > > was with DVE, another of Rob's areas :)  > >  > : > Could you please provide details about your "DVE" crash? > * > Were you expanding a volume at the time?1 > VMS level, shadow patch level, F11x patch level  > / > Any and all detail would be much appreciated.  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > Rob   I VMS 7.3-2, the ShadowSet in question was two members, members were on two  different EVA's.  H I would guess the patches of interest would be shadowing and fibre_scsi,I will mail you details on Monday, can't really post too much in the way of  specific configs here.  I One node crashed, with 10 minutes of the DVE, I guess when the volume was I next accessed. Only had a very quick look at the dump (as it wasn't me on = call, although I seem to get called for these things anyhow).   L The bugcheck was mentioning going past the end of the bitmap and the processC on the CPU that called out the crash had a open busy channel to the I shadowset that had been expanded. As I mentioned, I only had a very quick K look at the dump and I prefer not to be conclusive at this point, but given L those points and the timing of the DVE not long before, it would be a pretty	 safe bet.o  J Will mail you on Monday with more details and anything else I can get from	 the dump..   Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:07:57 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>l: Subject: Re: Marcello predicts 500% perfomance improvement, Message-ID: <41F2A48D.5070203@tsoft-inc.com>   Alex Daniels wrote:8  7 > "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote in message0. > news:M8xHd.6130$226.1652@news.cpqcorp.net... > F >>The volume is better, even if it isn't the size of the x86 business. >> > HP-UXo > J >>is a bigger business than Tru64 was.  The UNIX world is shrinking to theL >>point of only having 2-3 serious vendors HP, IBM and SUN.  Of those three,I >>SUN is the one who has not been able to at least squeek out break even. D >>POWER and Itanium will be the only 2 surviving RISC architectures. >> >> >  > ' > I thought Itanium was EPIC not RISC ?  >  > Alex >  >  >   > Maybe Fred knows something we don't about future itanics?  :-)   might as well add another :-)a   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:59:25 -0500a# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s: Subject: Re: Marcello predicts 500% perfomance improvement, Message-ID: <E6udnWjLyNIBLW_cRVn-jg@igs.net>   Dave Froble wrote: > Alex Daniels wrote:E >r8 >> "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote in message/ >> news:M8xHd.6130$226.1652@news.cpqcorp.net...  >>H >>> The volume is better, even if it isn't the size of the x86 business. >>>- >> HP-UX >>E >>> is a bigger business than Tru64 was.  The UNIX world is shrinkingsD >>> to the point of only having 2-3 serious vendors HP, IBM and SUN.D >>> Of those three, SUN is the one who has not been able to at least? >>> squeek out break even. POWER and Itanium will be the only 2 ! >>> surviving RISC architectures.a >>>e >>>  >> >>( >> I thought Itanium was EPIC not RISC ? >> >> Alexc >> >> >> >o@ > Maybe Fred knows something we don't about future itanics?  :-)    G Sure....IA64-II, to be released in Q1 2007, code named Mach8, is a full I implementation of EV8 SMT running at 6-7Ghz w/21 watts power consumption.nJ That's why HP is continuing with Alpha/IA64 code built from common source. ;-)  ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:34:57 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t: Subject: Re: Marcello predicts 500% perfomance improvement, Message-ID: <41F2B8EF.37421E5C@teksavvy.com>  F > > POWER and Itanium will be the only 2 surviving RISC architectures. > >a > ' > I thought Itanium was EPIC not RISC ?n  G 2 years from now, the way Intel will achieve prive parity with the 8086nD is simple: IA64 will run as a software emulator on the 8086 and will thus become Risc based.s   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Jan 2005 14:57:38 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMSC Message-ID: <1106434658.690314.269060@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>e   Bill Todd wrote: > AEF wrote: >s > ...  >p@ > > Now stop your whining and start helping by writing a polite,	 friendly,-C > > constructive, to-the-point letter about how hp can make lots ofr moneyMG > > by marketing VMS (and any other pro-VMS suggestions) and sending its to > > appropriate people at hp.. >>G > I guess you must be a newbie - in which case perhaps you should get a   > > bit better acquainted with the history of this matter before	 presuming. > to criticize.t >hG > JF was part of a group which spent more than 6 months doing preciselys  E > this about 5 years ago.  The letter including detailed explanations  and G > concrete proposals went to the then-CEO of Compaq, who was already inw  F > discussions with Carly even back then and over the ensuing years hadG > plenty of time to bring her up to speed on the subject before leavingt toE > pursue other interests well after the HP acquisition had completed.e ItB > resulted in a personal meeting with Rich Marcello and his senior staff --F > and Rich is still at HP, and in charge of a good deal more than just VMSa
 > these days.< >nD > When one avenue of approach has been thoroughly explored and foundE > ineffective, it's kind of stupid not to turn to others, at least if  youoG > care about the matter in question.  Compaq and then HP have more than   E > adequately proved themselves impervious to carrots, and those of usy whoeB > do in fact care will therefore likely continue to beat them with sticksF > until they either shape up or die - so you might as well get used to it.  >u > - bill  D The initial "carrot efforts": I know nothing about these except whatG you write. Maybe the presentations/whatevers were excellent. Maybe theyaE weren't any good. Maybe NOTHING will get hp to properly market VMS. I D know that whining and rude insults certainly won't do any good. WhenF someone tries to get you to do something, it's either with encouragingB words (as in a salesman trying to sell you something) or a show ofG force (as in the police, guns, courts, jail, etc.) We are not really in F the position of using the latter method! OK, there are other ways, butC I don't have the time to enumerate them all. (Hey, a letter writingsE campaign saved Star Trek (TOS) once, but unfortunately failed the 2ndnF time. At least VMS is faring better than TOS in that it is still being> updated and enhanced, as opposed to "running in syndication".)  F Why do you say that the carrot has been "thoroughly explored and foundG ineffective" yet you fail to give a single instance of success with theeF stick? Can you give an example where your current preferred tactics in1 a similar situation have actually done some good?e  D Now just how does JF's whining constitute an effective stick? How isC whining, including invalid complaints, going to do any good at all,y4 especially when it is so easily ignored by hp execs?  C Maybe I should try the "stick" method with your posts to get you to D change your tune. How effective do you think that would be? Maybe hpD should use a stick method in an attempt to sell more VMS? Maybe theyF should publically complain that not enough organizations are moving toB VMS? Maybe they should make insulting comments about various CEO'sE appearances. Maybe they should whine about it!   . . .  I don't thinko so..  F How long will you and others persist with sticks until you decide that< hp is impervious to that also? Sticks and carrots is kind ofF oversimplifying this issue anyway. My comments were specifically aimed. at JF's recent posts, not any general methods.  F If you want to make legitimate criticisms, that's fine. But that's notG what JF is doing. He was whining and making invalid complaints. And nowDC he's trying to stir up a lot of outrage assuming the worst possiblenE interpretation of Ann's comments about growing the VMS customer base.b7 How will any of these recent posts of JF's do any good?   G Ann was explicitly asking for suggestions re selling VMS. Would it killtE anyone to write a short positive letter to her about it? It certainlytE has a better chance of helping matters than any of JF's recent posts!I  C If hp does do something good for VMS, like its top billing (amongst F hp's OSes) in the recent "Web event", why not thank them and say let'sB see more? Even if one got stuck in the Carly loop, one could stillE easily click the New Products link and see VMS get TOP BILLING (aside G from the Integrity servers, of course, which were the main point of theeC "Web event".) Would it kill anyone to acknowledge this as somethingsG good? And instead of complaining about it being not enough I suggest we-E simply say Bravo! Let's please see some more! Let's see some of thesenC Web pages edited down to some effective full page ads. Write to Annl1 with stuff like this. Would it kill ya to try it?   A Try other things you say. How about voodoo? We can try that. Some F things shouldn't be tried because they are obviously never going to do< any good. Insulting Carly's appearance will not do any good.F Complaining about deeply buried Web pages which are in fact not deeplyG buried at all will not do any good. These are things that JF did that It was writing about.  D Get used to it? Well, I have as much right to write in this forum as. you do, so you'll have to get used to me, too!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:05:32 -0500h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> @ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS, Message-ID: <41F2F84F.1A3709C7@teksavvy.com>  
 AEF wrote:F > Now just how does JF's whining constitute an effective stick? How isE > whining, including invalid complaints, going to do any good at all, 6 > especially when it is so easily ignored by hp execs?  G Perhaps you are too young to recal the days when VMS was king , had thecH biggest software portfolio, a succesful globally branded user group with5 a rich library of software and the sky was the limit. A Many of us have seen and felt how the mistakes of the owners have'A resulted in VMS dropping to a little know system that most peopleo consider dead.  E There were great hopes in the initial weeks of Compaq buying Digital,tG expecially with the fuel pump ads that use the word "VMS", showing thataD the Compaq advertises undersood the VMS customers. But within weeks,G Digital's ad agency got the contract, then Pfeioffer was ousted and theaE downward spiral continued to a point where Curly in 2000 if I recall,-% was closed to officially canning VMS.4  E Marcello convinced Curly to give VMS a chance and not only was it not:H canned, but VMS was actually given a marketing budget. This swicthed VMSF from a shrinking to a product growing near 2 digits in the matter of aH few months of advertising. And due to modest budget, the advertising wasD restrictied to a small number of countries. What did VMS get for itsH success ? It not only had its ad budget removed/not renewed, but in JuneA 2001, had the rug pulled from under it when Curly murdered Alpha.t  B This was followed by HP's takeover with the total silence over VMSG culminated on May 7th 2002 with Stallard's famous memo that stated thattC HP expected VMS customers to migrate to HP-UX at their one pace. HPwH insisted it would continued Compaq's plan of record and has done nothingH to indicate that it would change things. To customers, Comapq's "plan ofE record" is tantamount to a slow killing of VMS.  HP has since stoppede8 using that infamous "plan of record" sentence, than got.    F HP had one excuse for not doing anything with VMS until now: pointless= to grow VMS on Alpha when you're waiting for that IA64 thing.s  F But now that IA64 has arrived for VMS, HP has absolutely no excuse notH to give VMS a fighting chance, its own marketing budget from the profits it generates etc etc.   F Ann Livermore isn't some grunt at HP. She's one the the power VPs. The? fact that on the day of VMS's launch, she said that they had no6G intentions of growing VMS is very very very sad. At the very least, she D should have said something to the order of "Now that VMS runs on our@ strategic platform, you can expect VMS to be more visible in ourH marketing and presentations and we expect it to grow as much as it can".  G I am no VP. Ann Livermore is there because she supposedly is smart, hasoG experience, education and whatever it takes for a person to become a VP G of that level in a corporation of HP's size and sophistication. For her F to state that HP doesn't intend to grow VMS can only be interpreted byH customers that this position represents official HP policy applicable to@ VMS now that VMS runs on IA64. I have not seen any press releaseH correcting this statement, so this statement must be acceptable to Carly as well.  G Stallard who made the infamous memo wasn't dismissed, he was promoted. F  F Imagine what would happen if Bill gates were to announce in some forum+ that he no longer intended to grow Windows.s      gH > If you want to make legitimate criticisms, that's fine. But that's not > what JF is doing.   F Excuse me ? Anne Livermore announcing HP has no intentiosn to grow VMSD is not a legitimate complaint ?  If you feel this policy is good for2 vMS, then obviously, you must work for Sun or IBM.  G We had been told that when VMS would run on IA64, there would no longer0A be any impediments to advertise VMS.  Last's week supposedly live C webcast had been touted as the big launch even for VMS on IA64. ThexF thing was a total flop, not even live. But at the very least, HP couldB have put some splash about VMS on its front page during that day.   G It doesn't cost HP anything to mention VMS on its front page. There areaG many things that HP could do which doen't cost any money and would go as> long way to increase the visibility fo VMS in the marketplace.  D Mentioning those missed opportunities may be considered a "whine" byE you. But when you combine all those "hines", it allows you to see theu@ whole picture where HP doesn't miss individual opportunities, it' sysematically avoids all opportunities.m  A You might be comfortable with VMS continuing is slow decline intotE oblivion. Won't be long that a single system sale will do to VMS whata- the same does to Tandem: raise sales by 100%.   F And with VMS going to be busy for another 3 years porting to the 8086,B this means that features, strenghtening the TCPIP product etc willC contihnue to lag. And lets not mention how dec-windows doesn't evenoH figure on the roadmap at a time where it needs a serious refresh. AddingA UNIX portability for the standard C run time library doesn't helpd< porting applications that require a modern version of Motif.    E > he's trying to stir up a lot of outrage assuming the worst possiblecG > interpretation of Ann's comments about growing the VMS customer base.   H I am curious. Pleas etell me how you can possibly spin her comments into a positive thing for VMS?   I > Ann was explicitly asking for suggestions re selling VMS. Would it killk; > anyone to write a short positive letter to her about it? 2  E If marcello hasn't told her about all the suggestions he had receivedlG from users over the years but which he was prevented from implementing,nG tshe wouldn't have needed to ask that question, especially since it wasc@ asked right after a statement that stated clearly that HP wasn't interested in growing VMS.    E > If hp does do something good for VMS, like its top billing (amongst H > hp's OSes) in the recent "Web event", why not thank them and say let's   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:29:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>t* Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Docs on web page?, Message-ID: <41F2B7B9.ECAF55F2@teksavvy.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:6 > Certainly the big feature is "also runs on Itanium".  H Sorry, but to a business, this adds absolutely no capabilities. In fact,F the current IA64 release rhas restrictions that do not exiost on Alpha> and VAX (although VAX now has many fewer features than Alpha).  B Alpha is still the "real" full featured VMS. We have to wait a few. versions before IA64's version is up to speed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:46:06 -0800c$ From: John Hixson <john@divinix.org> Subject: OpenVMS C Compiler 0 Message-ID: <PKmdnVOB8f0zSm_cRVn-2g@inreach.com>   Hi guys,F    Ive got alot of help here with setting up my box and getting it up F and running. Ive managed to get compaq tcp/ip servers up and running, C apache, php, etc. I have the hobbyist license and hobbyist layered hE product licenses. What I am trying to find now is a  C compiler. The oI only thing I could find is an outdated version of gcc and the link isn't rF even up. Can I get the Compaq C Compiler anywhere? I have the license G for it, I just cant find it anywhere. Any help would be appreciated. A ,< new OS is just not very comfortable without a C compiler =).   Thanks,n John Hixson    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 04:28:37 +0100p2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)7 Subject: Re: Problem with htpasswd.exe in Apache (CSWS)n; Message-ID: <41f319e5.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>V   mcbill20@yahoo.com wrote:  > Martin Vorlaender wrote: >> mcbill20@yahoo.com wrote:F >>> Hello all. I am trying to enable authentication for some web pagesA >>> but am having a problem htpasswd.exe. When I run it I get thep >>> following error: >>>N< >>> $ htpasswd -c apache$specific/pass/passwords bmclaughlin >>> New password:w >>> Re-type new password:c( >>> Adding password for user bmclaughlinF >>> dsa0:[sys0.syscommon.apache.][bin]htpasswd.exe;1: unable to update' >>> file apache$specific/pass/passwords  >>>tF >>> I don't believe this is a privilege issue because I've checked theE >>> directory permissions and the behavior is exactly the same when IEB >>> use bypass. The file gets created and is stream_lf format, but >>> contains zero blocks.R >>> Any suggestions? >>F >> The standard unixised VMS file spec is rooted (with a device as the8 >> first "path" element) only if it starts with a slash. >>; >> So, apache$specific/pass/passwords looks for a directoryDF >> apache$specific, while /apache$specific/pass/passwords looks at the, >> device (or logical name) apache$specific. > E > The path is not the problem. The behavior is exactly the same usingsH > normal VMS notation as well as many variations of the Unix-style path. > For example: > ; > $ htpasswd -c apache$specific:[pass]passwords bmclaughlin  > New password:  > Re-type new password:e& > Adding password for user bmclaughlinI > dsa0:[sys0.syscommon.apache.][bin]htpasswd.exe;1: unable to update filer! > apache$specific:[pass]passwordse  E Although you think this isn't a protection issue, I'd let VMS tell mel8 more about it by enabling audit on file access failures:  +   $ SET AUDIT /ALARM /ENABLE=ACCESS=FAILUREe   $ REPLY /ENABLEs   and then retry the command.e  D Unixy programs have the habit of testing whether they can write to aB file through the C RTL's access() function which just looks at the5 protection mask and doesn't honor privileges or ACLs.   E I just looked into it using ACCESS=ALL (I'm alone on my VMS machine):LG htpasswd looks at SYS$COMMON:[SYS$ZNEINFO.SYSTEM]GMT. and MET. - odd...pE It also seems to operate on APACHE$SPECIFIC:[PASS]PASSWORDS.DIR (!?!)a4 and on a temporary file in APACHE$SPECIFIC:[000000].  $ BTW, I'm using SWS 1.3 on VMS 7.2-2.   cu,    Martin -- P;    OpenVMS @ 25      | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!o.                      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA    Still exceeding   |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/r5    expectations      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:14:16 -0000 6 From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk>& Subject: Re: Q: Experience with HBMM ?6 Message-ID: <41f2a608$0$13381$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk>  < "Rob Brooks" <brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message' news:J$76l3gStpHI@cuebid.zko.dec.com...e0 > Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> writes:A > > Does anyone have experience with HBMM (Host-Based Mini-Merge)q  > > in a PRODUCTION environment? > >-; > > Our clusters are VMS 7.3-1 plus VMS731_HBMM-V0100 . . .2 >0H > Before anyone asks -- HBMM is available on V7.3-1 only to a select fewJ > customers. It's not generally available.  If you are interested in HBMM, pleaseG > upgrade to V7.3-2 and look for the latest V7.3-2 UPDATE kit.  HBMM ish; > integrated into the V8.2 releases for both Alpha and I64.p >cE > I'm also interested in any replies (good or bad) to Ken's question!r >p > --   >d1 > Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Grouph brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com-   Ken,  D In the end I only ran the 7.3-1 HBMM kit on test/dev clusters, but II strongly recommend you run VMS731_HBMM-V0200, I still have the kit or I'mS: sure Rob can get you a copy. The V0100 has known problems.  K Basically I'm now running with 7.3-2 and 8.2 and mixed clusters of both andt1 with mixed architecture Alpha / Itanium clusters.i  K My experience of HBMM has been very good, had a couple of problems however,e but nothing major..n  I One was that the .cld's allowed a specific DCL syntax that caused cluster>H logicals to be created for every possible shadowset number even when theH shadowset didn't exist, while this was what I wanted (at the time). ThisF gave me a crash and problems on a small memory test cluster. BasicallyI pagedyn exhaustion.. The CLD (or maybe images or whatever) has been fixedwH (or will be in the next Shadow/HBMM kit), although obviously I don't use that syntax now anyhow.T  G Another was a timing issue when enabling HBMM on a shadowset while alsodL mounting it, again gave a crash. Although a ran for ages and never kit this,E so guess it's a pretty small window. Again I use different DCL now to B workaround, and a fix is in (or will be) the current/next release.  & If you want details on either mail me.  G My biggest HBMM installation is on a six node, cross site cluster. With F around 1.5 - 2 TB of storage. I'm running with 4 Master Bitmaps (2 per site).  L Had a crash on that cluster last night HBMM worked great (although the crash' was with DVE, another of Rob's areas :)l  K Obviously there is a performance trade off with number of bitmaps and reseta: threshold times, so consider that with your configuration.  L While a Mini-Merge is in progress, I would of liked to have seen the bitmapsJ being updated marking segments that are merged ahead of the merge fence as having being done so.v  E This would of let you run with big reset threshold times, while still 9 ensuring you don't have repetitive performance hit on anytH hot-blocks/segments ahead of the merge fence, i.e. they don't need to be remerged over and over.2  G There are technical issues around this, but we are talking with Rob andt others about it.  J Overall I fully recommend HBMM, it's made things so much better for me andF thousands of my users, a fantastic enhancement and a credit to Rob and everyone else involved.n   Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:03:02 -0500p' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>> Subject: Re: vms versus solarisa, Message-ID: <41F2A366.5020501@tsoft-inc.com>   Keith Cayemberg wrote:    G > Yes, Berkeley DB does provide a record management service, and to my  C > knowledge it will run on nearly all operating systems, including -J > OpenVMS. However, I do not know of any OS where it is integrated as the E > default or mandatory universal record management service. In an OS  E > without such an integrated service, no matter how well you or your tK > development team program their record I/O code, it will not protect your eK > data, DB or even your program executables from a user with the privilege  F > to write  to your files from mistakingly using a stream I/O utility H > which corrupts those record-formatted files. Since a universal record G > management service also handles the default stream file access, this >E > class of errors is "prevented" by an operating system design which eI > ostensibly understands the record format a file was written, and later  E > knows this format when completely different software programmed by  F > people you will never know or meet tries to read or update the file. > I > This is a very significant, (and according to the years-long record in  J > COV) under-appreciated OS quality mechanism which is implemented by the ( > default integration of RMS in OpenVMS.    P If I assign a channel to an RMS file, and use QIOs for reading and writing, can  the data be corrupted?  :-)r   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:24:03 +0100e0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> Subject: Re: vms versus solarismB Message-ID: <41f2a854$0$17611$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   Dave Froble wrote:   > Keith Cayemberg wrote: >  > H >> Yes, Berkeley DB does provide a record management service, and to my D >> knowledge it will run on nearly all operating systems, including G >> OpenVMS. However, I do not know of any OS where it is integrated as  J >> the default or mandatory universal record management service. In an OS F >> without such an integrated service, no matter how well you or your G >> development team program their record I/O code, it will not protect nG >> your data, DB or even your program executables from a user with the -I >> privilege to write  to your files from mistakingly using a stream I/O MJ >> utility which corrupts those record-formatted files. Since a universal J >> record management service also handles the default stream file access, E >> this class of errors is "prevented" by an operating system design oJ >> which ostensibly understands the record format a file was written, and I >> later knows this format when completely different software programmed 9J >> by people you will never know or meet tries to read or update the file. >>J >> This is a very significant, (and according to the years-long record in G >> COV) under-appreciated OS quality mechanism which is implemented by c- >> the default integration of RMS in OpenVMS.  >  >  > E > If I assign a channel to an RMS file, and use QIOs for reading and t* > writing, can the data be corrupted?  :-) >  > Dave >   I I already discussed this possibility elsewhere in this thread. Bypassing sE RMS isn't the default method offered by VMS tools, compilers or even  B ported applications from other OS's, and it is not easier for the > programmer to use the System Services bypass, than to use RMS.  F I also don't claim there is no way to corrupt an RMS file by standard H RMS access either. It's just much more difficult to get File and Record E structures wrong by accident. There are many other forms of data and oD file corruption which I'm not discussing within the frame of an "OS 0 integrated Universal Record Management Service".   Cheers!l   Keith Cayembergw   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:20:45 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: vms versus solarisu= Message-ID: <-JKdnUIIcrY0Xm_cRVn-sQ@metrocastcablevision.com>l   Keith Cayemberg wrote:   ...c     Bypassing'G > RMS isn't the default method offered by VMS tools, compilers or even e& > ported applications from other OS's,  G My impression was that the C run-time library in fact did bypass RMS's  G record-level processing when dealing with sequential files, and rolled  G its own buffering using RMS block I/O (whether in application-writable  G address space I'm not sure - IIRC RMS at least isolates its own record oI buffers in P1 space where they should be relatively safe).  Whether this dC behavior is common in other run-time language support I don't know.e  D And of course any application which chooses to use RMS block I/O on 7 record-structured files leaves them open to corruption.M  G The bottom line is that RMS cannot ensure the integrity of its in-file pG structures.  Whereas a product like Berkeley DB in fact *could* ensure lG them if it, say, chose to execute as a server in its own process space  G and export only record-level interfaces to its clients:  more overhead 0? (since a full-fledged process context switch there and back is :G involved), but not necessarily prohibitively so given today's hardware 1 performance.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:14:23 -0500e' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>t< Subject: RE: Why growing the VMS installed base is importantR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53EB84@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20a  > Sent: January 21, 2005 9:09 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt: > Subject: Why growing the VMS installed base is important >=20 > As the song goes....2 > "You would cry too if it happened to you."...VMS >=20 >=205 > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1751651,00.asp  >=20A > Never trust a vendors commitment to inter-operability beyond=20t > that vendor's > > self-interest. That appears to be the lesson behind IBM's=20 > decision not tovB > test, certify and support its many software packages on Sun's=20
 > forthcoming @ > Solaris 10 operating system for the x86 platform. Sun execs=20 > think IBM shouldA > do more, but IBM officials are quite coy, Senior Edito Peter=20  > Galli reports,. > claiming they aren't seeing customer demand. >=20 > .....  >=20: > "They are telling us they don't anticipate sufficient=20 > customer support forH > Solaris 10 on x86, and that is the reason," Singer said. "But the real? > reason for this move is they just don't want the volume of=20  > Solaris businessC > on x86 to continue to grow. That is not in their interest."....... >=20 > ...hmmmmm...VMS too? >=20< > Yes I saw the recent post that IBM announced MQ v5.3 is=20 > available, and notA > picking on IBM but making a general observation that the VMS=20t > versions of ISVe4 > products are often months behind in their release. >=20< > Digital/Compaq/HP guts their own application/middleware=20 > portfolios only toA > find that fewer and fewer of the ISV's (IBM, Sun included in=20> > this) continue= > to offer VMS as supported platform.  I found it somewhat=20> > disheartening that@ > the IA64/VMS ISV application portfolio announced during the=20 > webcast was soH > small. But when HP doesn't advertise/market VMS...what can one expect. >=20 >=20   John,   , Not sure if you saw these, but just in case-@ http://www.acucorp.com/company/press/releases/2005/2005_pr_1.phpC "San Diego, CA - January 18, 2005 - Acucorp, Inc., an internationallC developer of software solutions that revitalize COBOL applications,>H today announces its support for HP's OpenVMS 8.2 operating system for HPF Integrity servers. This support will enable organizations to run their= critical COBOL business systems while taking advantage of theBB scalability and security of OpenVMS as well as the reliability andC performance of the HP Integrity server platform, built on the Intel  Itanium 2 architecture."   Synergex and OpenVMS / Itanium:-' http://www.synergex.com/ecards/817f.htmm2 http://www.synergex.com/ecards/20050120.htm#Blurb1F "With a large portion of our customer base committed to OpenVMS today,F we are very pleased that HP has ported OpenVMS to the Itanium and thatF we can offer this solid growth path to our OpenVMS customers." William? J. Mooney, V.P. and General Manager -  Synergy/DE Business Unitt  C Stalker Announces OpenVMS Version - Secure Messaging Alternative to F Exchange (and nice migration path for Office Server Customers btw -km); http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=3D04/12/02/3371441vE http://www.stalker.com/content/download.htm (scroll down to see Alpha , and Itanium versions available for download)3 "Posted Thursday December 02 2004 @ 08:16AM EST =090G Stalker Software has just announced the release of the OpenVMS beta forDG their CommuniGate Pro Integrated Communications server. The Beta period3B will run through to January 15, 2005. The product is available for3 OpenVMS on Alpha, and IA64 (Itanium2) platforms.=20a  H Stalker Software has released an OpenVMS beta version of the CommuniGate$ Pro messaging server which supports:   - Emailr
 - Calendaring  - Clustering - Secure Instant Messaging - VoIP - Video Conferencing - Remote Desktop - Application Sharingf and more...: [snip..]  * Computer Associates and OpenVMS / Itanium:5 http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?CID=3D66036tF "ISLANDIA, N.Y., January 17, 2005 - Computer Associates International,E Inc. (NYSE: CA) today announced that Unicenter Console Management for D OpenVMS I64 r3 is now available on HP Integrity servers based on theE Intel Itanium 2 processor. Additional Unicenter products - along with H CA's Ingres open source database - will become available on HP Integrity servers later this year..."   9 http://www-306.ibm.com/software/integration/wmq/v53/ovms/ H "IBM extends WebSphere MQ V5.3 to OpenVMS, bringing all the enhancementsE of this release to business with investments in this HP platform. YoutD can now integrate applications residing on OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMSD Itanium (in 32-bit mode) with all the features of the market-leadingH software for messaging and integration. WebSphere MQ for HP OpenVMS V5.33 supersedes MQSeries for Compaq OpenVMS Alpha V5.1."a   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.045 ************************