0 INFO-VAX	Sun, 23 Jan 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 46      Contents: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  RE: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms G Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips G Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips G RE: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips G Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips 8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA Have you heard the GOOD NEWS?  Re: How to get a free iPod? 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS ! Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Docs on web page?  Re: OpenVMS C Compiler/ President Bush's Admin Censors American Website  Re: PWS 600au Memory3 Re: Why growing the VMS installed base is important 0 [OT] Any VMS opportunities in Switzerland, oder?4 Re: [OT] Any VMS opportunities in Switzerland, oder?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 02:36:25 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms, Message-ID: <41F353F9.8000408@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   F > Last week, there was an announcement by Ann Livermore that HP wasn'tP > interested in growing VMS and was happy just keeping the installed base happy. >  > J > I years past, this would have generated a huge flurry of message on thisG > newsgroup with smoke coming out of people's ears who coudln't believe J > someone would say this, how HP was killing its cash cow etc etc etc etc. > J > Yet, this week, this was announced, and people seemed resigned to accept > it without much of a comment.  > @ > VMS is being ported to a dying platform nobody wants, HP isn'tG > interested in growing VMS.  Linux is free and growing. Are people now I > resigned to the inevitable and don't have the energy to fight anymore ?  >   N Could you go through what Ann said and find and post here the point where she P said that they weren't interested in growing VMS?  I must have missed it.  What Q I did read, I think, is her saying that it was difficult to get some/many people  D to accept other than what they considered an 'industry standard' OS.  N Accepting that many will not be receptive to the VMS option isn't the same as > saying that they are not interested in growing the VMS market.  O If HP would tell every prospective customer that VMS is the best OS available,  P they won't make a dent in those who want windows, but would be saying the right D thing to those who are tired of the troubles they have with windows.   Dave   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:09:04 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) " Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms/ Message-ID: <csvpjg$tpt$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>   V In article <41F353F9.8000408@tsoft-inc.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: !JF Mezei wrote: !snip! ! O !Could you go through what Ann said and find and post here the point where she  Q !said that they weren't interested in growing VMS?  I must have missed it.  What  R !I did read, I think, is her saying that it was difficult to get some/many people E !to accept other than what they considered an 'industry standard' OS.    Perhaps he means this one:  N Q: It seems that HP is quite satified with the installed base of OpenVMS. But,K are you looking for *NEW* customers, too? If so, what are your arguments to @ convince a new customer to stay off from Windows and Linux/Unix?M Ann Livermore (A): What we find today is that it is difficult to convince new G customers to adopt an operating environment that they do not view as an M industry standard. That makes it hard for HP to attract lots of new customers M to OpenVMS. Our greatest sales success comes from those customers who already I have OpenVMS and choose to expand into new application areas. If you have / suggestions for us, we would love to hear them!   H If this is the quote, I find it a little hard to believe that hp "is not$ interested" in growing the business.  K I _do_ know, however, that there is a long-time PDP/VMS ISV that is telling L its customers, potential and otherwise, that VMS is "crap", and to switch toO their Windows product.  When questioned, the folks involved state that they are I just telling the customers what they want to hear, and that customers are  telling them the same thing.  O !Accepting that many will not be receptive to the VMS option isn't the same as  ? !saying that they are not interested in growing the VMS market.  ! P !If HP would tell every prospective customer that VMS is the best OS available, Q !they won't make a dent in those who want windows, but would be saying the right  E !thing to those who are tired of the troubles they have with windows.  !  !Dave  !    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 04:43:32 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms= Message-ID: <3qydnYhbq89c7G7cRVn-tA@metrocastcablevision.com>    Bradford J. Hamilton wrote:    ...    > Perhaps he means this one: > P > Q: It seems that HP is quite satified with the installed base of OpenVMS. But,M > are you looking for *NEW* customers, too? If so, what are your arguments to B > convince a new customer to stay off from Windows and Linux/Unix?O > Ann Livermore (A): What we find today is that it is difficult to convince new I > customers to adopt an operating environment that they do not view as an O > industry standard. That makes it hard for HP to attract lots of new customers O > to OpenVMS. Our greatest sales success comes from those customers who already K > have OpenVMS and choose to expand into new application areas. If you have 1 > suggestions for us, we would love to hear them!  > J > If this is the quote, I find it a little hard to believe that hp "is not& > interested" in growing the business.  G By their efforts shall ye know them.  And HP's efforts to grow the VMS  # customer base are absolutely squat.   G The above statement from Livermore is pure bureaucratese.  It attempts  C to excuse HP's lack of interest in growing VMS as customer lack of  G interest without actually saying anything about whether HP is *trying*  E to change that (because if it did say anything, it would have to say  D that HP is doing nothing in that area, and that's obviously not the 6 answer which the questioner would have liked to hear).   - bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:46:03 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms1 Message-ID: <newscache$qgkrai$wj81$1@news.sil.at>   \ In article <41F2BB04.706220F7@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:E >Last week, there was an announcement by Ann Livermore that HP wasn't O >interested in growing VMS and was happy just keeping the installed base happy.   K Yup, we saw/heard it. But it was only the sour in the soup. And the soup is I a VMS port is officially done and VMS engineering will now have more time 3 to make yet another improvement to OpenVMS (Alpha).   I >I years past, this would have generated a huge flurry of message on this F >newsgroup with smoke coming out of people's ears who coudln't believeI >someone would say this, how HP was killing its cash cow etc etc etc etc.   L Not everyone is as pessimistic as you. We still have hope (because we must).I Yes, being pessimistic saved us from getting disappointed ("they can't be K so silly" we now all know they have been so silly and therfore finally went I out of business). And yes, we now believe such statements. Or at least we + hear them without having smoke in the ears.   I >Yet, this week, this was announced, and people seemed resigned to accept  >it without much of a comment.  . No, not really. You're forcing our comments...  ? >VMS is being ported to a dying platform nobody wants, HP isn't F >interested in growing VMS.  Linux is free and growing. Are people nowH >resigned to the inevitable and don't have the energy to fight anymore ?  D Partly maybe. OTOH, we all want COV to carry less political and moreD technical threads (or else technical discussions will only happen inH ITRC forums and OPENVMS.ORG) so adding yet another pessimistic political8 thread won't serve us. But, too late, now there is it...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:46:52 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> " Subject: RE: Apathy on comp.os.vmsR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53EB89@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----C > From: Bradford J. Hamilton [mailto:hamilton@Encompasserve.org]=20   > Sent: January 23, 2005 1:09 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ > Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms >=20= > In article <41F353F9.8000408@tsoft-inc.com>, Dave Froble=20  > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > !JF Mezei wrote: > !snip! > ! ? > !Could you go through what Ann said and find and post here=20  > the point where she=20? > !said that they weren't interested in growing VMS?  I must=20  > have missed it.  What=20A > !I did read, I think, is her saying that it was difficult to=20  > get some/many people=20 G > !to accept other than what they considered an 'industry standard' OS.  >=20 > Perhaps he means this one: >=20B > Q: It seems that HP is quite satified with the installed base=20 > of OpenVMS. But,> > are you looking for *NEW* customers, too? If so, what are=20 > your arguments to B > convince a new customer to stay off from Windows and Linux/Unix?B > Ann Livermore (A): What we find today is that it is difficult=20 > to convince new A > customers to adopt an operating environment that they do not=20  > view as anA > industry standard. That makes it hard for HP to attract lots=20  > of new customers< > to OpenVMS. Our greatest sales success comes from those=20 > customers who already B > have OpenVMS and choose to expand into new application areas.=20
 > If you have 1 > suggestions for us, we would love to hear them!  >=20B > If this is the quote, I find it a little hard to believe that=20 > hp "is not& > interested" in growing the business. >=20@ > I _do_ know, however, that there is a long-time PDP/VMS ISV=20 > that is telling @ > its customers, potential and otherwise, that VMS is "crap",=20 > and to switch to@ > their Windows product.  When questioned, the folks involved=20 > state that they are @ > just telling the customers what they want to hear, and that=20 > customers are  > telling them the same thing. >=20  	 [snip ..]    > !   E While obviously every situation is different, I also heard of one ISV F who 3 years ago invested a pile of $'s into their Windows product thatH fits into the traditionally mission critical VMS space and then tried toG convince their Customers "that Windows was the way to go", "that's what F analysts are saying..", "that's what Cust's want to hear.." yada, yada ..  B They then found many of their Customers could not live with the OS? vendor recommended monthly security / patch / reboots / lack of E clustering/stability that they were used to etc ... Many ISV's forget A that many Custs do not do patches unless they have been QA'ed and E tested. The Custs were not willing to switch. So now what does an ISV  do?   F Last I heard (about 15 months ago, albeit) was that this ISV was again@ re-investing in their VMS version of the same product. They also7 recently ported their product to Itanium / VMS as well.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:17:18 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> " Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms, Message-ID: <WsadnXkcNMFjIm7cRVn-hg@igs.net>   Rob Young wrote:7 > In article <41F2BB04.706220F7@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ( > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > G >> Last week, there was an announcement by Ann Livermore that HP wasn't E >> interested in growing VMS and was happy just keeping the installed  >> base happy. >  > Spin.  > D >> Yet, this week, this was announced, and people seemed resigned to	 >> accept   >> it without much of a comment. > ; > Like CBS, depends on the spin.  JF you've been fudding up ! > VMS for so long , it's pitiful.  > 8 > I suppose you care to ignore Mark Gohram's report that< > 10-15% of VMS customers are new customers and that VMS has > been growing recently. > C > http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=05/01/18/0435366  > E > Mark: The OpenVMS business has seen recent growth in the low double 
 > digits year E > over year. It should also be noted that between 10 to 15 percent of  > our 6 > business comes for accounts that are new to OpenVMS.    E Without further clarification, it is possible to categorize  Gorham's I statement into what Twain call "Lies, damn lies, and statistics". I'm not K saying that Gorham didn't say what he meant but examine his words and don't  make assumptions:   J "The OpenVMS business has seen recent growth in the low double digits year; over year. ..."  and "10 to 15 percent of our business...." & What exactly do these statements mean?6 Does it mean that revenues are growing at those rates?3 Does it mean that profits are growing at that rate? L Does it mean that the number of new customers added to the VMS customer base is growing at that rate?B Does it mean that one or two new customers can skew the results so' significantly because sales are so low?  Just what does it mean?   , I don't know, and nobody here knows without:# a) access to inside information, or ' b) further information disclosed by HP.   J Statements like these without additional detail is somewhat akin to saying the moon is nearby.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 08:09:29 -0800  From: jordan.henderson@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vmsB Message-ID: <1106496569.829393.73520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  
 [big snip]   Kerry Main wrote:   D > They then found many of their Customers could not live with the OSA > vendor recommended monthly security / patch / reboots / lack of G > clustering/stability that they were used to etc ... Many ISV's forget C > that many Custs do not do patches unless they have been QA'ed and G > tested. The Custs were not willing to switch. So now what does an ISV  > do?  > B > Last I heard (about 15 months ago, albeit) was that this ISV was again B > re-investing in their VMS version of the same product. They also9 > recently ported their product to Itanium / VMS as well.   B This experience is reminiscient of a sinuation involving IBM a fewF years ago.  After years of just doing maintenance and little marketingD on their mainframe products, they found that there was continued and# renewed interest in those products.   5 Then, IBM took up the challenge of serious marketing, E renamed/repositioned the product lines and it's a healthy and growing  business today.    -Jordan Henderson  jordan.henderson@gmail.com   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 05:35:45 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com P Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chipsC Message-ID: <1106487345.263329.317660@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   A the x86 is a boat anchor ... a new chip for servers is needed ... ? power will last awhile and of itanium is given EV8 features, it : will too ... companies that understand servers do not want9 80,000 server farms running patch of the day club windoze : or unix/linux ... they want systems like EV7 that a single8 cluster can do want 80,000 x86 boxes can do ... a new 649 bit platform will emerge if not power or itanium, and x86 < will eventually sink ... the only thing keeping it afloat is6 because of the conversion involved to another chip ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 06:44:48 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> P Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips( Message-ID: <opsk18kyk4zgicya@hyrrokkin>  ; On 23 Jan 2005 05:35:45 -0800, <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:   C > the x86 is a boat anchor ... a new chip for servers is needed ... A > power will last awhile and of itanium is given EV8 features, it < > will too ... companies that understand servers do not want; > 80,000 server farms running patch of the day club windoze < > or unix/linux ... they want systems like EV7 that a single: > cluster can do want 80,000 x86 boxes can do ... a new 64; > bit platform will emerge if not power or itanium, and x86 > > will eventually sink ... the only thing keeping it afloat is8 > because of the conversion involved to another chip ... >   B I suspect that if you were to survey CIOs you would find that theyD would tell you that they don't need faster, they want functionality,D things like virtualization, interoperability and the like.  At least0 sveral have told me that in the past few months.   --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:20:37 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> P Subject: RE: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chipsR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53EB94@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]=20   > Sent: January 23, 2005 6:45 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com B > Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and=20 > other xx86xx chips >=20= > On 23 Jan 2005 05:35:45 -0800, <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:  >=20E > > the x86 is a boat anchor ... a new chip for servers is needed ... C > > power will last awhile and of itanium is given EV8 features, it > > > will too ... companies that understand servers do not want= > > 80,000 server farms running patch of the day club windoze > > > or unix/linux ... they want systems like EV7 that a single< > > cluster can do want 80,000 x86 boxes can do ... a new 64= > > bit platform will emerge if not power or itanium, and x86 @ > > will eventually sink ... the only thing keeping it afloat is: > > because of the conversion involved to another chip ... > >  >=20D > I suspect that if you were to survey CIOs you would find that theyF > would tell you that they don't need faster, they want functionality,F > things like virtualization, interoperability and the like.  At least2 > sveral have told me that in the past few months. >=20 > --=20 E > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/  >=20   Tom,   Re: new functionality ..  / That is only a one part of the requirements.=20   C Almost all med-large companies are now either thinking, planning or G implementing IT Consolidation as a means to reduce their overall server   complexities and overall TCO.=20  D However, when one does IT Consolidation, it means that you typicallyD need larger servers with increased availability, increased security,A increased manageability, and increased performance as part of the E overall solution. Stuff that those with centralized computing support / experience typically are usually familiar with.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 10:20:53 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com P Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chipsC Message-ID: <1106504453.835712.295330@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    bingo!   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:01:38 GMT 1 From: Morten Reistad <firstname@lastname.pr1v.n0> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA 0 Message-ID: <j8nvsc.9dr2.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>  ) In article <41F31CAE.6000803@swbell.net>, + patrick jankowiak  <eccm@swbell.net> wrote:  >Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >  >  >>  B >> I have wanted to start a computer museum here at the University@ >> for a long time.  I figured if I could get commitments from aA >> few corporations for operating funds I could probably convince ? >> the University to give me the necessary space.  But I really > >> don't know how to go about finding corporate sponsers.  :-(? >> My idea is to have a real hands on facility where people can > >> come in and actually play with the equipment.  I would also? >> make as much of it as I could available on the INTERNET with : >> guest accounts.  But, I'm probably just dreaming again.  : Corporate sponsors are just as shallow. We need to come up with a workable museum first.    > z >I wish we could do this. There's a hell of a datacenter here just waiting to be unzipped. It's what we wanted.. (makes mel >want to listen to "all we ever wanted" by Bauhaus) Man I am trying to keep a good mindset but this step is . >   getting me down. It has to be done though. >  >OPCOM  > A computer museum will need large amounts of space; as well as? access to largish amounts of energy when someone decides to run C the machines. Much can be mocked up for the standard visitor, using A emulators to show software on the correct terminals. But machines = must be kept intact. We also have the issue of documentation.   B Such space fast becomes the major problem. It cannot be in or veryE near major cities, because land is too expensive there. And the scale , of this is big enough for a full theme park.   So why not do this?   A Make a theme park around technology development and preservation. ? Remember that the audience is a premium one for many locations. @ The nerds or wannabees that visit such places have above average? income, are not very inclined to boozing and gambling, and tend ' to leave the facilities without damage.   @ It will have to be located somewhere outside the mainstream, and= must be the magnet for people itself. Just like Disney World.    -- mrr   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:40:31 +0100 A From: Christian Corti <Christian.Corti@studserv.uni-stuttgart.de> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA + Message-ID: <thbcc2-m6j.ln1@news.online.de>   B In alt.sys.pdp11 Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote:" > HNF - Heinz Nixdorf MuseumsForum > http://www.hnf.de/  G Don't give anything to them if you don't want it to be put somewhere in G a corner or in the cellar and be handled by a staff that really doesn't J know what they have. Even though they have lots of money they are not whatG a real computer museum should be (having technical staff, being able to D repair and operate the machines, etc.). As the name implies they are@ more a forum for social events (conferences etc.) than a museum.  	 Christian    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jan 2005 15:04:18 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA , Message-ID: <35hsniF4kdq0mU1@individual.net>  ) In article <41F31B4C.9030206@swbell.net>, , 	patrick jankowiak <eccm@swbell.net> writes: > John Smith wrote:  >  >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>  C >>>In article <41f284c5$0$812$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>, 5 >>>Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes:  >>>  >>>>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>> >>>>E >>>>>In article <41f237b0$0$821$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>, 7 >>>>>Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes:  >>>>>  >>>>> % >>>>>>MoS | Museum of Science, Boston  >>>>>>http://www.tcm.org/  >>>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> D >>>>>Isn't this the place that trashed all their real computer stuff@ >>>>>including stuff that had been donated by people like DennisB >>>>>Ritchie?  I sure didn't see anything vintage computer related >>>>>on thier website. >>>>> 	 >>>>>bill  >>>>>  >>>>G >>>>Could be. That is maybe why they are no longer call themselves "The C >>>>Computer Museum" (TCM). Then it is good that such proposals are  >>>>discussed in a forum.  >>>> >>>>Thanks Bill. >>>> >>> B >>>I have wanted to start a computer museum here at the University@ >>>for a long time.  I figured if I could get commitments from aA >>>few corporations for operating funds I could probably convince ? >>>the University to give me the necessary space.  But I really > >>>don't know how to go about finding corporate sponsers.  :-(? >>>My idea is to have a real hands on facility where people can > >>>come in and actually play with the equipment.  I would also? >>>make as much of it as I could available on the INTERNET with : >>>guest accounts.  But, I'm probably just dreaming again. >>   >>   >>  A >> The Smithsonian ought to be interested in something like this.  >>   >>   > I just shot them an e-mail.   = I doubt they are interested and I wouldn't trust them with it  even if they said they were.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:24:05 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA , Message-ID: <2-WdnXX-rbYIXG7cRVn-3g@igs.net>   patrick jankowiak wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  >  >>B >> I have wanted to start a computer museum here at the University@ >> for a long time.  I figured if I could get commitments from aA >> few corporations for operating funds I could probably convince ? >> the University to give me the necessary space.  But I really > >> don't know how to go about finding corporate sponsers.  :-(? >> My idea is to have a real hands on facility where people can > >> come in and actually play with the equipment.  I would also? >> make as much of it as I could available on the INTERNET with : >> guest accounts.  But, I'm probably just dreaming again. >> >> bill  >> >  > Bill,  > C > I wish we could do this. There's a hell of a datacenter here just D >    waiting to be unzipped. It's what we wanted.. (makes me want toF > listen to "all we ever wanted" by Bauhaus) Man I am trying to keep aB > good mindset but this step is getting me down. It has to be done	 > though.     G Maybe there's an unused hanger at Davis Monthan AFB (the "Boneyard") in A Arizona that the collection can be housed in  :-)  or Area 51 ;-)   L Or maybe Hollywood would want them to use in a sci-fi movie.....sort of likeJ the scene in 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' where Flight 19's planes) emerge out of the swirling sandstorm.....    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jan 2005 16:01:22 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA , Message-ID: <35i02hF4m76kqU1@individual.net>  ) In article <41F3196B.4080708@swbell.net>, , 	patrick jankowiak <eccm@swbell.net> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > C >> In article <41f284c5$0$812$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>, 6 >> 	Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes: >>   >>>Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>>  >>> D >>>>In article <41f237b0$0$821$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,7 >>>>	Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes:  >>>> >>>>$ >>>>>MoS | Museum of Science, Boston >>>>>http://www.tcm.org/ >>>>>  >>>> >>>>C >>>>Isn't this the place that trashed all their real computer stuff ? >>>>including stuff that had been donated by people like Dennis A >>>>Ritchie?  I sure didn't see anything vintage computer related  >>>>on thier website.  >>>> >>>>bill >>>> >>> G >>>Could be. That is maybe why they are no longer call themselves "The  C >>>Computer Museum" (TCM). Then it is good that such proposals are   >>>discussed in a forum. >>>  >>>Thanks Bill.  >>>  >>   >>  B >> I have wanted to start a computer museum here at the University@ >> for a long time.  I figured if I could get commitments from aA >> few corporations for operating funds I could probably convince ? >> the University to give me the necessary space.  But I really > >> don't know how to go about finding corporate sponsers.  :-(? >> My idea is to have a real hands on facility where people can > >> come in and actually play with the equipment.  I would also? >> make as much of it as I could available on the INTERNET with : >> guest accounts.  But, I'm probably just dreaming again. >>   >> bill  >>   > C > I have some experience with such entities. Unless permanent space 6 > is allocated, items are often eventually disposed of@ > unceremoniously and in an ugly manner. I witnessed this at the? > "texas broadcast museum". The volunteers were suddenly locked ? > out, and the BOD privately sold off many assets to line their A > own pockets, and the stuff that was too big to sell was trashed = > (including the Voice of America broadcasting console and an C > ancient 5000 watt RCA AM transmitter) and the place now converted B > to guided tours hands-off, beginning and ending in the gift shop@ > which had been the tech lab where exhibits were serviced.. May  > the BOD rot for that disgrace. > B > I am not saying that's what would happen, but I am concerned forC > the future of our historical charges and the legacy they bespeak.  >   ; That can happen  no matter where the items go, as should be 8 evident given the history of the Boston Computer Museum.: I am configdent that so long as I could continue to garner9 corportate sponsorship in the form of small (small to any 9 real corporation) grants to cover operating expenses like 7 payroll for the workers/curators [mostly drawn from the 5 ranks of students which would a) keep the cost down,  8 b) make the operation even more in-line with the mission9 of the University, and c) provide experience and learning < to the students that I personally think would be invaluable]; and acquisition of additional exhibits, keeping space would  not be a problem.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 08:45:07 -0800! From: google_groups_usa@yahoo.com & Subject: Have you heard the GOOD NEWS?B Message-ID: <1106498707.026214.53970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  5 http://www3.boxke.net << click link for the good news    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 00:08:28 -0800 From: dmrx24@gmail.com$ Subject: Re: How to get a free iPod?C Message-ID: <1106460621.765415.256030@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   = yupp if you just want an easier way get the ipod shuffle here 6 http://www.ipodshuffles4free.com/default.aspx?r=182891 drgarza@gmail.com wrote:@ > This article will give you step-by-step instructions on how toF > successfully obtain your free iPod using freeipods.com for as little asD > $1. Many think that this site is a scam or a pyrimid sceam. A scam no, B > a pyrimid yes, a sceam no. You do have to put forth some sort of effortB > to get a free iPod. You must get five friends or relatives to do > exactly the following... >  > 1 > Step 1: Click here to go to the free iPod site. & > http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=12541248< > To participate in this great offer you must live in the US >  > E > Step 2: Use an email address at the bottom of the page and choose a @ > password. (they will send you email, so please use a secondary account) >  > E > Step 3: Fill out all required shipping information. This tells them  > where to send your iPod. >  > G > Step 4: (Do not exit at this point) This is the part that over 90% of F > the people start thinking: "Maybe this isn't for real." They present toC > you 10 different "optional" offers. These are not any of the realo1 > offers needed to complete the getting the iPod.o >o >mB > Step 5: Skip all of the previous offers and you get to the referD > friends page. You can start sending emails to your friends here or skip > this step and do it later. >a > C > Step 6: Complete an offer. This is where real companies like AOL,a RealG > Networks and more are advertising through freeIpods.com. This is whatoB > makes them successfull. Choose an offer and purchase or sign up.E > (Choose the RealNetworks Real Rapsody. This cost $1...yes $1 dollari forDB > 30 days. Cancel anytime. Even if you forget its only $10 a month afterUD > the first month. For signing up they also give you 5 free songs toB > burn. This is the best offer. Nothing is free, but an iPod for a dollarD > and a little work is worth it. Some offers change. There is always oneeB > offer where you pay next to nothing or just sign up for a 30 day trial. >  > B > Step 7: Get your friends to do the same thing. Even if you don't- > complete it you get to download five songs.d >  >hC > Note: Completing an offer and not signing up your friends is whatw theyE > are counting on. It is more likely you get intreagued and then givee up.,D > This doesn't mean that it is a scam. All you must do it finish. If thisG > still sounds to good to be true then go pay $300 for a new iPod. Have2 > patience and good luck.  >m >a3 > If you haven't started yet. Get your iPod here!!! & > http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=12541248   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 04:35:53 -0500n( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS= Message-ID: <4Z-dnV9BUM1r8m7cRVn-sQ@metrocastcablevision.com>   
 AEF wrote:   ...a  F > The initial "carrot efforts": I know nothing about these except what > you write.  D Exactly.  So you speak from complete ignorance, while others do not.   ...      WhenH > someone tries to get you to do something, it's either with encouragingD > words (as in a salesman trying to sell you something) or a show ofI > force (as in the police, guns, courts, jail, etc.) We are not really inw* > the position of using the latter method!  
 Au contraire.h  A When Alpha was killed, Compaq made an all-out effort of spin and nE outright lies effort to try to justify it to its customer base.  And nG much of the customer base seemed fairly uncritically receptive to that   effort.i  G If the few of us who knew better had not spoken up against both Compaq eF and the Itanic abortion, VMS, and even Tru64, sales would likely have G been considerably better over the past 3.5 years than they have been - tG and overall Itanic sales as well, since back then the industry took it lH as a given that Itanic would rule until people like us got them to take H a harder look at its current failures and less-than-promising immediate 
 prospects.  G So we have contributed to a great deal of lost revenue and profit over -H that period.  VMS revenue dropped about 50% shortly after the Alphacide I - from $4 billion to $2 billion annually, and a great deal of the latter  H comprised income from service agreements rather than system sales - and F has rebounded only slightly (to less than $3 billion at last account) G since then, and Tru64 revenue dropped off a cliff, especially after HP iI decommitted its port to Itanic and people realized just how inadequate a eG replacement HP-UX offered.  We intend to continue such efforts as long iF as it remains appropriate, since we just don't believe that cHumPaq's G behavior should be rewarded lest it encourage similar behavior from HP pI or others in the future.  Perhaps you haven't noticed that Carly herself aH is no longer in such good odor these days:  getting her ousted would be F a definite step in the right direction, and it shouldn't take a great " deal more push to accomplish that.   ...:  H > Why do you say that the carrot has been "thoroughly explored and foundI > ineffective" yet you fail to give a single instance of success with therH > stick? Can you give an example where your current preferred tactics in3 > a similar situation have actually done some good?r  F The current situation certainly applies here:  if nothing else, we've = alerted people who would otherwise have blindly followed the mH 'conventional wisdom' in this area to the fact that Itanic may not be a H very good thing to bet their future on any time soon.  That constitutes H a public service as well as an appropriate poke in the eye with a sharp  stick to our friends at HP.c   > F > Now just how does JF's whining constitute an effective stick? How isE > whining, including invalid complaints, going to do any good at all,o6 > especially when it is so easily ignored by hp execs?  D It is less easily ignored by HP stockholders and Wall Street.  As I F noted above, Carly is not their darling any more, and the collapse in > enterprise computing sales which she has helped engineer is a G significant part of the reason why.  But in any event you don't appear nH to be in any position to be able to provide credible insight into which - complaints may be valid and which may not be.D   > E > Maybe I should try the "stick" method with your posts to get you to = > change your tune. How effective do you think that would be?A  H Absolutely zero, but of course you're welcome to make more of a fool of  yourself trying.   ...a  H > How long will you and others persist with sticks until you decide that  > hp is impervious to that also?  H You should read more carefully:  I already answered that question in my  previous post.   ...g  C   And instead of complaining about it being not enough I suggest wexG > simply say Bravo! Let's please see some more! Let's see some of theseoE > Web pages edited down to some effective full page ads. Write to Ann 3 > with stuff like this. Would it kill ya to try it?t  G Of course not, if we hadn't already done exactly that during the brief sG and in retrospect pitiful putative "VMS renaissance" 5 years ago.  The cH positive feedback seemed more to convince Compaq that they'd solved the G 'problem' and could return to business as usual - and, as I also noted  G previously, since a great many of the same players are still in charge sE at HP (plus more who clearly think in the same ways) we could likely w expect a similar result today.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 09:33:10 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMSB Message-ID: <1106501590.091139.89920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > AEF wrote: [...]d >vB > When Alpha was killed, Compaq made an all-out effort of spin andF > outright lies effort to try to justify it to its customer base.  AndC > much of the customer base seemed fairly uncritically receptive to: that	 > effort.  >rA > If the few of us who knew better had not spoken up against bothA CompaqG > and the Itanic abortion, VMS, and even Tru64, sales would likely havet  F > been considerably better over the past 3.5 years than they have been ->  F So what I gather what your saying is is that if you had not spoken up,G VMS sales would have been better. So you reduced VMS sales. How is thateF a good thing? Please try to be more clear since this can't be what youF meant but it is what you said above. Just how is reducing VMS sales as. you say above something that you are proud of?     [...]    [...]S  E > > Now just how does JF's whining constitute an effective stick? Howe isG > > whining, including invalid complaints, going to do any good at all,t8 > > especially when it is so easily ignored by hp execs? >hE > It is less easily ignored by HP stockholders and Wall Street.  As IlG > noted above, Carly is not their darling any more, and the collapse ini  ? > enterprise computing sales which she has helped engineer is avA > significant part of the reason why.  But in any event you don'te appearC > to be in any position to be able to provide credible insight intos which / > complaints may be valid and which may not be.,  F Au contraire. JF complained that the pages that Keith pointed out wereC deeply buried beneath layers and layers and menus and pages. I havedF shown in another post that that is simply not true. JF complained thatB Ann said that hp is not interested in growing VMS. She did not sayE that. Sure, hp may still not be interested in growing VMS, but that'sH not what she said.     >l > >oG > > Maybe I should try the "stick" method with your posts to get you ton? > > change your tune. How effective do you think that would be?p >iF > Absolutely zero, but of course you're welcome to make more of a fool of > yourself trying. >A > ...E > E > > How long will you and others persist with sticks until you decide- that" > > hp is impervious to that also? >eF > You should read more carefully:  I already answered that question in my > previous post. >  > ...  >iE >   And instead of complaining about it being not enough I suggest wesC > > simply say Bravo! Let's please see some more! Let's see some ofc these>G > > Web pages edited down to some effective full page ads. Write to Annm5 > > with stuff like this. Would it kill ya to try it?1 > B > Of course not, if we hadn't already done exactly that during the brief0C > and in retrospect pitiful putative "VMS renaissance" 5 years ago.d ThetE > positive feedback seemed more to convince Compaq that they'd solvedu thehB > 'problem' and could return to business as usual - and, as I also noted A > previously, since a great many of the same players are still ina chargeF > at HP (plus more who clearly think in the same ways) we could likely  > expect a similar result today.  F So do both. Just because on variation of a method doesn't work as wellG as you would have liked it to, that doesn't mean that another variationq would work better.  F I did say that valid criticism is OK by me. And you have done that andB that is fine. But JF's complaints were invalid. The pages were notE deeply buried. In fact, just the opposite. VMS got TOP BILLING on theA
 Web event.  C And relax. Your going to ruin your health getting so upset about myo posts.  E And kindly refrain from insults -- a drop of honey cacthes more filesa than a gallon of gall.  E While I am not happy with your string of insults, I am flattered thateG you care so much about my opinion (or even better, you are worried thateC I may actually influence others!) that you respond with such vigor.v Bravo!   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 09:54:56 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMSA Message-ID: <1106502896.653943.7940@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>S   JF Mezei wrote:l > AEF wrote:E > > Now just how does JF's whining constitute an effective stick? Howc isG > > whining, including invalid complaints, going to do any good at all,t8 > > especially when it is so easily ignored by hp execs? > E > Perhaps you are too young to recal the days when VMS was king , had  the E > biggest software portfolio, a succesful globally branded user group  with7 > a rich library of software and the sky was the limit.iC > Many of us have seen and felt how the mistakes of the owners haverC > resulted in VMS dropping to a little know system that most peoplen > consider dead.    I've been a VMS user since 1985.  G > There were great hopes in the initial weeks of Compaq buying Digital,oD > expecially with the fuel pump ads that use the word "VMS", showing thatF > the Compaq advertises undersood the VMS customers. But within weeks, [...]rG > to indicate that it would change things. To customers, Comapq's "plann ofG > record" is tantamount to a slow killing of VMS.  HP has since stopped : > using that infamous "plan of record" sentence, than got.  ' What does this have to do with my post?n  > > HP had one excuse for not doing anything with VMS until now:	 pointlessp? > to grow VMS on Alpha when you're waiting for that IA64 thing.r >aD > But now that IA64 has arrived for VMS, HP has absolutely no excuse not5B > to give VMS a fighting chance, its own marketing budget from the profitss > it generates etc etc.     OK. I never disagreed with this.  D > Ann Livermore isn't some grunt at HP. She's one the the power VPs. The A > fact that on the day of VMS's launch, she said that they had no E > intentions of growing VMS is very very very sad. At the very least,a shee  < She didn't say that. She said they found it hard to do that.  F > should have said something to the order of "Now that VMS runs on ourB > strategic platform, you can expect VMS to be more visible in ourD > marketing and presentations and we expect it to grow as much as it can".s  E Fine, but this is not what you said in your post that I responded to.i  E > I am no VP. Ann Livermore is there because she supposedly is smart,u haseF > experience, education and whatever it takes for a person to become a VPE > of that level in a corporation of HP's size and sophistication. For  hermE > to state that HP doesn't intend to grow VMS can only be interpretedn byG > customers that this position represents official HP policy applicablei toB > VMS now that VMS runs on IA64. I have not seen any press releaseD > correcting this statement, so this statement must be acceptable to Carlyi
 > as well. >a> > Stallard who made the infamous memo wasn't dismissed, he was	 promoted.p >iB > Imagine what would happen if Bill gates were to announce in some forume- > that he no longer intended to grow Windows.m >d >  > F > > If you want to make legitimate criticisms, that's fine. But that's note > > what JF is doing.r >nD > Excuse me ? Anne Livermore announcing HP has no intentiosn to grow VMSeF > is not a legitimate complaint ?  If you feel this policy is good for4 > vMS, then obviously, you must work for Sun or IBM.  C She said they found it difficult. But never mind that -- your other D complaint in that post is completely wrong. You complained about theC VMS pages that Keith posted were "hidden under layers and layers ofe	 menus andiF pages" which is simply not true. VMS GOT TOP BILLING AMONG ALL HP OSES IN THE WEB EVENT. TOP BILLING.  B > We had been told that when VMS would run on IA64, there would no longerC > be any impediments to advertise VMS.  Last's week supposedly livewE > webcast had been touted as the big launch even for VMS on IA64. The-B > thing was a total flop, not even live. But at the very least, HP coulduC > have put some splash about VMS on its front page during that day.0  E I disagree that it was a total flop. VMS got top billing, even if youh@ got stuck in the Carly loop, as I have already explained. It is,> however, disappointing to not see some VMS ads in the IT rags.   > E > It doesn't cost HP anything to mention VMS on its front page. There  aretG > many things that HP could do which doen't cost any money and would go  a @ > long way to increase the visibility fo VMS in the marketplace.  F Well, their front page currently has no special mention of anything inD particular. So VMS is not any worse off than any other hp OS in thatD respect. Not even MS or Windows is anywhere on the front page. ClickF "Software Products" and you will see two VMS links. Hardly "layers and
 layers..."  F > Mentioning those missed opportunities may be considered a "whine" byG > you. But when you combine all those "hines", it allows you to see thesB > whole picture where HP doesn't miss individual opportunities, it) > sysematically avoids all opportunities.a >iC > You might be comfortable with VMS continuing is slow decline intooG > oblivion. Won't be long that a single system sale will do to VMS whatn/ > the same does to Tandem: raise sales by 100%.  >jB > And with VMS going to be busy for another 3 years porting to the 8086,sD > this means that features, strenghtening the TCPIP product etc willE > contihnue to lag. And lets not mention how dec-windows doesn't even C > figure on the roadmap at a time where it needs a serious refresh.l AddingC > UNIX portability for the standard C run time library doesn't helpu> > porting applications that require a modern version of Motif.  G Well, somehow your post that I responded to comes across as a whine. Ifd> you're going to criticize, try not to come across that way andG acknowledge what good has occurred and don't make up stuff about layers G and layers. And don't make insults about people's appearances -- really- now.  G > > he's trying to stir up a lot of outrage assuming the worst possible@C > > interpretation of Ann's comments about growing the VMS customeru base.t > E > I am curious. Pleas etell me how you can possibly spin her comments5 into > a positive thing for VMS?o  G There's an entire range from full negative to full positive. There is aeA possible range of interpretations of comments. You chose the mosteG negative possible interpretation. That's called "spin". I'm just saying08 that what she said is not as bad as your interpretation.  F > > Ann was explicitly asking for suggestions re selling VMS. Would it kill< > > anyone to write a short positive letter to her about it? >rG > If marcello hasn't told her about all the suggestions he had received ; > from users over the years but which he was prevented fromv
 implementing,hE > tshe wouldn't have needed to ask that question, especially since itt washB > asked right after a statement that stated clearly that HP wasn't > interested in growing VMS.  F A positive, friendly letter can't hurt. Insulting someone's appearanceC or age (as you have done in a recent post) probably will. Making upn6 nonsense about layers and layers certainly won't help.* I recommend the Dale Carnegie methodology.   [...]m   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:03:14 +0000 (UTC)V3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>8* Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Docs on web page?/ Message-ID: <ct0ot1$e24$1@titan.btinternet.com>-   Hi,   5 >Certainly the big feature is "also runs on Itanium".u  H Au contraire Larry! You are doing VMS engineering a *huge* disservice! I7 cannot let this injustice go uncorrected. What about: -x   . CRTL enhancementsa' . Delivering UNIX style APIs on OpenVMSo . File Lock APIs! . Statvfs not to mention Fstatvfsn . Stnd stat strv1 xyz cypto y. . vi!!!o . gnuTARJ . Not to mention the glorious improvements to make (let that piece o' shit MMS die, I say)aK . POSIX THREADS LIBRARY NOW SUPPORTS PROCESS SHARED MUTEXES (Are ya getting @ *hot* yet? Well if that doesn't give you a hard-on how about - )L . The jewel in the "pissing money up against the wall" crown - VAX PL/1 code converted to C ?????  L No Larry, I tell you solemnly, OPENvms 8.2 is a major functionality release;L we're all just too stupid to see it. *All* of these features managed to makeK it into the Beta New Features Manual. (I'm sure that would've been the case D even if Hoff had to personally give up his vacation to do the typing himself)  D For too long the creativeness of VMS engineering has been stifled byE middle-aged dinosaurs such as myself who won't let go of our securitynI blankets and keep hugging trees like "development language neutrality andoH independence" and System Services (User-Written or otherwise) Yes we areL like some senile old relatives that they refuse to acknowledge for fear thatK we'll cause embarrassment in front of their wacky cool new friends. Well so J be it! (We're big enough and ugly enough to look after ourselves!) But allJ we ask NO DEMAND is our fair share of the VMS money bags. Give the dog hisI bone! Or we'll all come and drool and become incontinent on your nice newa friends!   Regards Richard Mahert  < Larry wrote something I can see on Google but nowhere else:-2 Larry Kilgallen   Jan 22, 7:05 am     show options   Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsnL From: Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Find messages by this author  Date: 22 Jan 2005 09:05:19 -0600 Local: Sat, Jan 22 2005 7:05 am * Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Docs on web page?E Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show  original | Report Abuse     ? In article <cstnrt$ig...@titan.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher" % <maher...@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:3   > Hi  D >> I suppose we'll have to wait a little bit yet for the final docs.  4 > Any ideas how long? I mean, is it released or not?  > Nobody has claimed it is shipping. It was announced this week.  J > Is a bigger Lock Value Block really all VMS license payers get for theirC > troubles? How many more years will we continue to have to pay thecK > OPENvms/POSIX/TRU64/VMSisUNIX MOB-Tax? Let VMS thrive on its own revenue!   4 Certainly the big feature is "also runs on Itanium".  7 "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> wrote in message * news:_-2dnarRG-tDDW_cRVn-qg@comcast.com...J > I asked the doc group about v8.2 yesterday from their web page.  Waiting fors
 > a reply. >t< > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:DRdUmX$4nTQR@eisner.encompasserve.org...oC > > In article <cstnrt$ign$1@titan.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher"q) > > <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:i > >> Hiu > >>>lG > >>> I suppose we'll have to wait a little bit yet for the final docs.e > >>7 > >> Any ideas how long? I mean, is it released or not?  > >mC > > Nobody has claimed it is shipping.  It was announced this week.  > >'G > >> Is a bigger Lock Value Block really all VMS license payers get fora their(F > >> troubles? How many more years will we continue to have to pay theE > >> OPENvms/POSIX/TRU64/VMSisUNIX MOB-Tax? Let VMS thrive on its own  revenue! > >t8 > > Certainly the big feature is "also runs on Itanium". >t >f   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 02:40:05 -0500s' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>d Subject: Re: OpenVMS C Compilern, Message-ID: <41F354D5.7010307@tsoft-inc.com>   John Hixson wrote:  
 > Hi guys,K >   Ive got alot of help here with setting up my box and getting it up and eD > running. Ive managed to get compaq tcp/ip servers up and running, E > apache, php, etc. I have the hobbyist license and hobbyist layered oG > product licenses. What I am trying to find now is a  C compiler. The tK > only thing I could find is an outdated version of gcc and the link isn't mH > even up. Can I get the Compaq C Compiler anywhere? I have the license I > for it, I just cant find it anywhere. Any help would be appreciated. A ,> > new OS is just not very comfortable without a C compiler =). > 	 > Thanks,t
 > John Hixsont  Q If you've got the hobbyist CD media, then you have BASIC.  Try a decent language d for a while.  :-)-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:23:27 GMTm/ From: "Tracey..." <tracey12_12o.spam@yahoo.com>t8 Subject: President Bush's Admin Censors American Website4 Message-ID: <3cQId.55165$Ta2.15093@fe2.texas.rr.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0409050701070609030007039 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowedo Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitd  E A controversial website is under attack by the feds for its content. nI Cryptome is operated by John Young, a 69 year old architec from Texas who  now lives in NYNY.  B For years, John has published every document sent to him with the  promise that nothingI would be taken off his site without a court order.  Thus, John is a true a American who stands firmlyH behind the US Constitution.  He exercises his right to free speech, but  promises that he will abide byH any court ruiling to remove a document.  Yet, this is not good enough.   The US Federal government is onnI the attack.  Just a couple of days ago, Johns site was said to have been B( "taken down", a new phrase for the timesG we live in, by the feds.  But why would the feds force the shutdown of n& Cryptome when John clearly states that6 he will abide by any court order to remove a document?  G The answer to that question is bothersome, but simple: The feds do not t& have to get a court order to shut downA a site, but limiting the free speech of an American is much more g8 difficult using the courts, as it should be.  Therefore,E rather than take John to court to request that a certain document be  % removed, BIG BROTHER was said to havec" decided to "take down" Johns site.  6 So whats the problem here?  An extensive article HERE F <http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/jan05.asp> states that John has no ( banned, or top secret articles given him> and posted on his page.  No, all that John has done is post a = "sensitive" item that was sent to him.  The truth may be thatCC John Young is more American than those who are attacking him.  The m1 attackers are using schemes rather than law to goaF censor an American citizen.  It may very well be that the "feds" have 4 waited in the wings for John to post a document thatE they didn't like so that  he could be "taken down".  So much for due U5 process of the law, and for First Amendment rights of  American citizens.  I Big Brother hates real free speech, and here is an article that explains nE why :  Big Brother Hates Free Speech. <http://tracey5190.tripod.com/> B If America were founded today, you would never be allowed all the . liberty laid out in our wonderful Consitution.G Clearly, some in washington think Americans are too free,  and in less o6 than a week after President George W. Bush talks aboutI helping nations around the globe to achieve liberty and freedom, his own l/ administration attacks an AMERICAN because theyw* dont like what he's posted on his website.  E Are we turly free, or are you free as long as your existance doesn't e  upset someone in our government?  H Will the God hating radicals over at the ACLU come running on this one?       & --------------040905070107060903000703) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciia Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bith  ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">v <html> <head>I   <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">a   <title></title>n </head>r' <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">rO A controversial website is under attack by the feds for its content.&nbsp; <br>oE Cryptome is operated by John Young, a 69 year old architec from Texaso who <br> now lives in NYNY.<br> <br>A For years, John has published every document sent to him with the  promise that nothing <br>tH would be taken off his site without a court order.&nbsp; Thus, John is a# true American who stands firmly<br>yL behind the US Constitution.&nbsp; He exercises his right to free speech, but" promises that he will abide by<br>Q any court ruiling to remove a document.&nbsp; Yet, this is not good enough.&nbsp; $ The US Federal government is on <br>H the attack.&nbsp; Just a couple of days ago, Johns site was said to have1 been "taken down", a new phrase for the times<br>rK we live in, by the feds.&nbsp; But why would the feds force the shutdown ofi* Cryptome when John clearly states that<br>: he will abide by any court order to remove a document?<br> <br>F The answer to that question is bothersome, but simple: The feds do not* have to get a court order to shut down<br>@ a site, but limiting the free speech of an American is much moreB difficult using the courts, as it should be.&nbsp; Therefore, <br>D rather than take John to court to request that a certain document be) removed, BIG BROTHER was said to have<br>l& decided to "take down" Johns site.<br> <br>8 So whats the problem here?&nbsp; An extensive article <aC  href="http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/jan05.asp">HERE</a> states7= that John has no banned, or top secret articles given him<br> B and posted on his page.&nbsp; No, all that John has done is post aF "sensitive" item that was sent to him.&nbsp; The truth may be that<br>G John Young is more American than those who are attacking him.&nbsp; Thec6 attackers are using schemes rather than law to go <br>J censor an American citizen.&nbsp; It may very well be that the "feds" have9 waited in the wings for John to post a document that <br> N they didn't like so that&nbsp; he could be "taken down".&nbsp; So much for due: process of the law, and for First Amendment rights of <br> American citizens.<br> <br>? Big Brother hates real free speech, and here is an article thatrH explains why :&nbsp; <a href="http://tracey5190.tripod.com/">Big Brother Hates Free Speech.</a><br>A If America were founded today, you would never be allowed all theo2 liberty laid out in our wonderful Consitution.<br>K Clearly, some in washington think Americans are too free,&nbsp; and in lesse: than a week after President George W. Bush talks about<br>D helping nations around the globe to achieve liberty and freedom, his8 own administration attacks an AMERICAN because they <br>. dont like what he's posted on his website.<br> <br>D Are we turly free, or are you free as long as your existance doesn't$ upset someone in our government?<br> <br>B Will the God hating radicals over at the ACLU come running on this one?&nbsp; <br>c <br> <br> </body>  </html>w  ( --------------040905070107060903000703--   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:39:45 -0800t From: JBloggs@acme.com Subject: Re: PWS 600au Memoryd8 Message-ID: <s1r7v0dhh8d1f0bup2jj2ts7evi1r6bfhm@4ax.com>  C On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:39:34 -0700, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>s wrote:  E >Anybody have a good supplier for this?  I would prefer a non-Digital G >source, don't want to pay several hundred $$$ for $50 worth of memory. 6 >I'm looking for at least 256MB, 512MB would be better  ( I had good luck w/ the following vendor;  @ i've populated 3 600au's out to 1.5gb without problems (so far).  0 Best if you can order all memory within 1 order;0 you can mix pairs from different manufacturers,  but it can be a bit dicey.  + you want ECC, registered, 66 Mhz or faster. 3 if using 256MB modules, they need to be 16x8 based.h  0 I'm less clear on whether CL2 will work (vs CL3)/ most 3rd-party offerings seem to be CL3 anyway.e  ; http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.asp?itemid=331233e
 3D Memory > 168Pin-Pc100 SDRAM W/ECC Registered 256M 32X72Rg (16x8 Based)	" 3D Memory Part No.: Sdram32x72-8R	 Memory Type: 256MB PC100 DIMM  Form Factor: 168pin Dimm Bus Speed: 100MHz  CAS Latency: CL3& Integrity Checking: Ecc and Registered  Physical Attributes: Low Profile  ; these were about $93/dimm 2 years ago, $103 more recently. n4 I imagine there's not a big market for these anymore (older Apple, and Sun systems)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:47:41 -0500u# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n< Subject: Re: Why growing the VMS installed base is important, Message-ID: <Ub6dnX1USISAWm7cRVn-jg@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- + >> From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]y! >> Sent: January 21, 2005 9:09 AMv >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com; >> Subject: Why growing the VMS installed base is important  >> >> As the song goes....r3 >> "You would cry too if it happened to you."...VMSe >> >>6 >> http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1751651,00.asp >>? >> Never trust a vendors commitment to inter-operability beyond  >> that vendor's< >> self-interest. That appears to be the lesson behind IBM's >> decision not to@ >> test, certify and support its many software packages on Sun's >> forthcoming> >> Solaris 10 operating system for the x86 platform. Sun execs >> think IBM shouldu? >> do more, but IBM officials are quite coy, Senior Edito Peter1 >> Galli reports, / >> claiming they aren't seeing customer demand.  >> >> ..... >>8 >> "They are telling us they don't anticipate sufficient >> customer support for D >> Solaris 10 on x86, and that is the reason," Singer said. "But theB >> real reason for this move is they just don't want the volume of >> Solaris businessaD >> on x86 to continue to grow. That is not in their interest."...... >> >> ...hmmmmm...VMS too?p >>: >> Yes I saw the recent post that IBM announced MQ v5.3 is >> available, and not ? >> picking on IBM but making a general observation that the VMS  >> versions of ISV5 >> products are often months behind in their release.  >>: >> Digital/Compaq/HP guts their own application/middleware >> portfolios only top? >> find that fewer and fewer of the ISV's (IBM, Sun included in  >> this) continuer; >> to offer VMS as supported platform.  I found it somewhat  >> disheartening thato> >> the IA64/VMS ISV application portfolio announced during the >> webcast was sooA >> small. But when HP doesn't advertise/market VMS...what can one 
 >> expect. >> >> >t > John,t > . > Not sure if you saw these, but just in case-B > http://www.acucorp.com/company/press/releases/2005/2005_pr_1.phpE > "San Diego, CA - January 18, 2005 - Acucorp, Inc., an internationalaE > developer of software solutions that revitalize COBOL applications, G > today announces its support for HP's OpenVMS 8.2 operating system foroE > HP Integrity servers. This support will enable organizations to runeE > their critical COBOL business systems while taking advantage of theeD > scalability and security of OpenVMS as well as the reliability andE > performance of the HP Integrity server platform, built on the Inteli > Itanium 2 architecture." > ! > Synergex and OpenVMS / Itanium:f) > http://www.synergex.com/ecards/817f.htmt4 > http://www.synergex.com/ecards/20050120.htm#Blurb1H > "With a large portion of our customer base committed to OpenVMS today,H > we are very pleased that HP has ported OpenVMS to the Itanium and thatH > we can offer this solid growth path to our OpenVMS customers." WilliamA > J. Mooney, V.P. and General Manager -  Synergy/DE Business Unith > E > Stalker Announces OpenVMS Version - Secure Messaging Alternative to H > Exchange (and nice migration path for Office Server Customers btw -km); > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=04/12/02/3371441rG > http://www.stalker.com/content/download.htm (scroll down to see Alphas. > and Itanium versions available for download)1 > "Posted Thursday December 02 2004 @ 08:16AM EST-E > Stalker Software has just announced the release of the OpenVMS betalF > for their CommuniGate Pro Integrated Communications server. The BetaG > period will run through to January 15, 2005. The product is availablec6 > for OpenVMS on Alpha, and IA64 (Itanium2) platforms. >"> > Stalker Software has released an OpenVMS beta version of the2 > CommuniGate Pro messaging server which supports: >d	 > - Email. > - Calendaringo > - Clustering > - Secure Instant Messaging > - VoIP > - Video Conferencing > - Remote Desktop > - Application Sharing 
 > and more... 
 > [snip..] >e, > Computer Associates and OpenVMS / Itanium:5 > http://www3.ca.com/Press/PressRelease.asp?CID=66036 H > "ISLANDIA, N.Y., January 17, 2005 - Computer Associates International,G > Inc. (NYSE: CA) today announced that Unicenter Console Management foraF > OpenVMS I64 r3 is now available on HP Integrity servers based on theG > Intel Itanium 2 processor. Additional Unicenter products - along with @ > CA's Ingres open source database - will become available on HP' > Integrity servers later this year..."i >a; > http://www-306.ibm.com/software/integration/wmq/v53/ovms/n= > "IBM extends WebSphere MQ V5.3 to OpenVMS, bringing all theoF > enhancements of this release to business with investments in this HPB > platform. You can now integrate applications residing on OpenVMSE > Alpha and OpenVMS Itanium (in 32-bit mode) with all the features of F > the market-leading software for messaging and integration. WebSphereE > MQ for HP OpenVMS V5.3 supersedes MQSeries for Compaq OpenVMS Alphal > V5.1."    $ Thanks Kerry. Yes, I had seen those.  K I had suggested to HP that they take a few million dollars and hire a smallsI handful of under-employed talented VMS experienced developers to port theeK top 3-5 open source apps still not ported in a variety of categories to VMSnG over the next year or so. Had the suggestion been acted upon when first.G suggested, there would have been more to crow about at the webcast last,F Tuesday and in the plethora of trade rag articles that appears at thatD time...."HP Serious about Open Source on VMS....hundreds of new appsI available". An opportunity squandered due to lack of vision or cojones org both.r  J It's a far more reliable way of ensuring that a couple hundred open sourceI apps get ported in a VMS specific way than relying on the still-born .edu J program HP is having get any momentum behind. (Univesrity of Turin, etc..)  C It's chump change for HP, it sends the right message to the pool ofwL potential new and existing customers, is far more effective than handing outI OpenVMS keychains, and results in high quality ports that expands the VMSi
 ecosystem.  F I *know* that there are several dozen people who frequent comp.os.vms,K comp.sys.dec, encompass, etc.... who would be excellent candidates for this L sort of work, who are at present under-employed and either with a subsidy orK contract/outright employment by a funded VMS Open Source Inc. would be ablen: to make quick work on a large number of needed tools/apps.  J Of course HP is conspicously silent on the matter. What's $2 million to HPK to use to advance the cause of a product it is claimed is growing by 10-15%y@ annually.....the price of a few trips of the G-IV for carly(tm)?  E Ditto for *paying* some key ISV's to port and maintain their currenlyo4 non-VMS available products for a minumum of 5 years.    L The other thing that sould be done is to have a tiny Alpha box (MicroVax2000H / multia size ) that have the Stalker software or other potentially nearD mass market apps installed on them that can be loaned to prospectiveG customers as an 'appliance' to see for themselves the good stuff in the H flesh. A rep could have 20 of these in their cars that they can drop-off  Johnny Appleseed style. Oh well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:25:19 +0100y- From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr>p9 Subject: [OT] Any VMS opportunities in Switzerland, oder?s4 Message-ID: <41f37b90$0$29091$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   Hi Friends,   = Anyone around aware of VMS slots in the country of chocolate?c Thanks,g   D. -- e,        Didier MORANDI - Expert informaticien0   13 chemin du Gu, 1213 Petit-Lancy (GE) Suisse0 Tl. : +33(0)6 7983 6418 ~ www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:28:16 +0100r0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>= Subject: Re: [OT] Any VMS opportunities in Switzerland, oder?aB Message-ID: <41f3ecc2$0$17615$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   Didier Morandi wrote:t
 > Hi Friends,e > ? > Anyone around aware of VMS slots in the country of chocolate?l	 > Thanks,  >  > D.   No idea how old these are...  / http://www.ecareers.ch/_eckpre572D731896J11.htmo  f http://www.edvjob.ch/nexusmain.nsf/VAKViewWEB/7469a77bad76b5dac1256e7e004e814c!OpenDocument&AutoFramed   Cheers!-   Keith Cayemberg3   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.046 ************************