0 INFO-VAX	Mon, 24 Jan 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 47      Contents: ** The J F  M e z e i  FAQ ** ! Re: ** The J F  M e z e i  FAQ **  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms  RE: Apathy on comp.os.vms  Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms P Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips chipschi8 Re: Connecting VAX VMS (5.2) to PC (Windows 2000 Server) Have you heard the GOOD NEWS? J Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMS1 Re: Marcello predicts 500% perfomance improvement 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS 7 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS  Re: OpenVMS C Compiler Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIP Re: SMHANDLER documentation. Re: TCP/IP on OpenVMS 7.3 $ Re: TCPIP NFS between 2 VMS clusters4 Using Rdb temporary tables for 3GL memory allocation  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 19:14:20 -0000 From: faq@jf.faq (JF FAQ) & Subject: ** The J F  M e z e i  FAQ **3 Message-ID: <V6BPPKSD38376.1349537037@reece.net.au>    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS    About JF MEZEI  @ The "nobody" troll of rec.travel.air and "John Doe" troll of the sci.space.* newsgroups.    (Rev. Jan. 23, 2005)   Written by:    Darrell Larose 121 Northwestern Ave Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1 (613) 725-0245 cota348@rogers.com ad607@FreeNet.Carleton.CA    1.  Who is JF Mezei?  C Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever C hit rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also 4 one of the longest running trolls in usenet history.  C ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME AND C E-MAIL ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS  THEIR MESSAGES.***  E If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitor E the control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your < messages, forward a copies of them to abuse@teksavvy.com and+ abuse@astraweb.com and abuse@teranews.com .   ! Also http://www.usenetabuse.com .   " 2.  How long has he been trolling?   For well over a decade.    3.  Where does he live?    Montreal, Quebec, Canada   Jean-Francois Mezei  86 Harwood Gate  Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  (514) 992-0474 (514) 695-8259  9 His current e-mail addresses are jfmezei@teksavvy.com and  jfmezei@vaxination.ca .   ) His website is http://www.vaxination.ca .   * 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  C His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades D your newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, dayF in and day out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He@ does not listen to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything4 anyone tells him, he does not pay attention when theA misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just goes C right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his F ears closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you say!"    5.  What does he troll about?   F His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  HeB hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn itC into a USA-bashing fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start  making lewd posts.  $ 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  E Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have E a visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a B happier, better, more successful version of their country and they> can't stand it.  Some of JF's favorite troll bait is "the BushC regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans are B brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are stupid" etc.  # 7.  What about his sexual trolling?   E Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre. > Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women'sA genitalia, sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of   course) ... the list is endless.   8.  Circumcision???   F Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes< to insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then.C Apparently, JF was traumatized as a child because his parents, poor B Hungarian immigrants to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he wasB born, as is the custom in most of the world.  Growing up in Canada@ where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, he was? psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he @ arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades ofE circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a @ free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able toB masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin"F getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in' life to spread the circumcision gospel.   @ 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky.   @ Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among theE subjects dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, E especially little boy's foreskins (and how tight they are) and little @ girls' hymens.  He is also a tireless activist and advocate thatC children should be taught to masturbate early on so that they don't , grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".  E He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their C little boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, F proper movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.A Utopia for JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their  little boys' penises.   @ 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the+ minute!  Are you sure about all this stuff?   D Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a' decade full of Mezei trolling in there.   C 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the  time like all trolls do?  B Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trolling aliases.   A 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he  work?   E Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a C grown man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and @ trolls the newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn'tF trolling he likes to ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race the# planes down the runway in his bike.   9 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?   D Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he neverA got past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor F (i.e. "pull my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow.  C 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about  them, is that true?   @ Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in theB locker room.  He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has= seen in locker rooms over the years, especially his unnatural F obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the men in locker rooms trying toB measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is left if theyF have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case of phimosis.  @ 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum!  D Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin; foil hat world where others are out to get him.  The key to F understanding JF is that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the worldD is out to get him, especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about.  D What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian railD system was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut,D spotting trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down atB the train yard like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention toC aviation.  Major events that made him fall head first deep into the C abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines and their subsequent F takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is he thatE when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees D went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to coverE up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of ; the crash investigation.  He has never recovered from this.   6 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  F His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to someE ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken A seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and C social dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the 1 good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!   ! 17.  Where else does he hang out?   @ can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geekyD computer groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster heB invaded the sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, andF trolled it relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crapE he's so famous for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to go D crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking his wounds.   A 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and  doesn't troll.  F Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so> he slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large heA respects comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide his A trolling activities from them so they won't find out what a major  netkook he is.  F 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind of psycho he is!  E Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while F you're at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido? too.  And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and  news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.  4 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  D Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts to:   * abuse@teksavvy.com , dnsadmin@teksavvy.com& abuse@teranews.com, abuse@astraweb.com   also http://www.usenetabuse.com   7 You can also call directly, troll free, 1-877-779-1575.    TekSavvy Solutions Inc.  330 Richmond St., Suite 205  Chatham, ON, Canada  N7M 1P7   D And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups,C email it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it to D newspapers and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do with Montreal or Canada, etc.      *** APPENDIX ***  @ List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over theF years.  This is only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to compile a full list.   jfmezei@teksavvy.com jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com jfmezei@istop.com  jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com  jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  nospam.jfmezei@videotron.ca  "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam]   nobody <nobody@nobody.com> nobody <nobody@nobody.net> nobody <nobody@nobody.org> nobody <nobody@nobody.info>  nobody <nobody@nobody.int> nobody <nobody@nothing.nil>  nobody <nobody@null.dev># Janice Staples <jstaples@noaol.com> ) Lorenna Bobbit <lbobbit@ginsu_knives.com> ' Lando Calrisian <Lcalrisian@empire.org>  muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au> # snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree> ) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org> & Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>   Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> ! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>   Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> % Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> & Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> ( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> " Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> & Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> " Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  Q <queue@continuum.net>  Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>   ; *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 04:32:38 GMT D From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowODDOGGPLAYSBALL!@earthlink.net>* Subject: Re: ** The J F  M e z e i  FAQ **B Message-ID: <GT_Id.8746$rp1.6292@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>  
 JF FAQ wrote:    > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
 >    About
 > JF MEZEI > B > The "nobody" troll of rec.travel.air and "John Doe" troll of the > sci.space.* newsgroups.  >  > (Rev. Jan. 23, 2005) > 
 > Written by:  >  > Darrell Larose > 121 Northwestern Ave > Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1 > (613) 725-0245 > cota348@rogers.com > ad607@FreeNet.Carleton.CA  >  > 1.  Who is JF Mezei? > E > Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever E > hit rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also 6 > one of the longest running trolls in usenet history. > E > ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME AND E > E-MAIL ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS  > THEIR MESSAGES.*** > G > If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitor G > the control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your > > messages, forward a copies of them to abuse@teksavvy.com and- > abuse@astraweb.com and abuse@teranews.com .  > # > Also http://www.usenetabuse.com .  > $ > 2.  How long has he been trolling? >  > For well over a decade.  >  > 3.  Where does he live?  >  > Montreal, Quebec, Canada >  > Jean-Francois Mezei  > 86 Harwood Gate  > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  > (514) 992-0474 > (514) 695-8259 > ; > His current e-mail addresses are jfmezei@teksavvy.com and  > jfmezei@vaxination.ca .  > + > His website is http://www.vaxination.ca .  > , > 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll? > E > His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades F > your newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, dayH > in and day out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  HeB > does not listen to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything6 > anyone tells him, he does not pay attention when theC > misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just goes E > right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his H > ears closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you > say!"  >  > 5.  What does he troll about?  > H > His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  HeD > hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn itE > into a USA-bashing fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start  > making lewd posts. > & > 6.  What does he hate about the USA? > G > Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have G > a visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a D > happier, better, more successful version of their country and they@ > can't stand it.  Some of JF's favorite troll bait is "the BushE > regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans are D > brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are > stupid" etc. > % > 7.  What about his sexual trolling?  > G > Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre. @ > Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women'sC > genitalia, sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of " > course) ... the list is endless. >  > 8.  Circumcision???  > H > Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes> > to insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then.E > Apparently, JF was traumatized as a child because his parents, poor D > Hungarian immigrants to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he wasD > born, as is the custom in most of the world.  Growing up in CanadaB > where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, he wasA > psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he B > arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades ofG > circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a B > free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able toD > masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin"H > getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in) > life to spread the circumcision gospel.  > B > 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of	 > freaky.  > B > Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among theG > subjects dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, G > especially little boy's foreskins (and how tight they are) and little B > girls' hymens.  He is also a tireless activist and advocate thatE > children should be taught to masturbate early on so that they don't . > grow up "sexually repressed like Americans". > G > He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their E > little boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, H > proper movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.C > Utopia for JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their  > little boys' penises.  > B > 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the- > minute!  Are you sure about all this stuff?  > F > Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a) > decade full of Mezei trolling in there.  > E > 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the  > time like all trolls do? > D > Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known > trolling aliases.  > C > 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he  > work?  > G > Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a E > grown man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and B > trolls the newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn'tH > trolling he likes to ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race the% > planes down the runway in his bike.  > ; > 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?  > F > Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he neverC > got past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor H > (i.e. "pull my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been > able to outgrow. > E > 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about  > them, is that true?  > B > Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in theD > locker room.  He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has? > seen in locker rooms over the years, especially his unnatural H > obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the men in locker rooms trying toD > measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is left if theyH > have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case > of phimosis. > B > 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an > insane asylum! > F > Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin= > foil hat world where others are out to get him.  The key to H > understanding JF is that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the worldF > is out to get him, especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all > about. > F > What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian railF > system was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut,F > spotting trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down atD > the train yard like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention toE > aviation.  Major events that made him fall head first deep into the E > abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines and their subsequent H > takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is he thatG > when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees F > went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to coverG > up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of = > the crash investigation.  He has never recovered from this.  > 8 > 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him! > H > His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to someG > ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken C > seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and E > social dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the 3 > good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!  > # > 17.  Where else does he hang out?  > B > can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geekyF > computer groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster heD > invaded the sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, andH > trolled it relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crapG > he's so famous for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to go F > crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking
 > his wounds.  > C > 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and  > doesn't troll. > H > Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so@ > he slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large heC > respects comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide his C > trolling activities from them so they won't find out what a major  > netkook he is. > H > 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind > of psycho he is! > G > Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while H > you're at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fidoA > too.  And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and  > news.admin.net-abuse.usenet. > 6 > 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address? > F > Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts > to:  > , > abuse@teksavvy.com , dnsadmin@teksavvy.com( > abuse@teranews.com, abuse@astraweb.com > ! > also http://www.usenetabuse.com  > 9 > You can also call directly, troll free, 1-877-779-1575.  >  > TekSavvy Solutions Inc.  > 330 Richmond St., Suite 205  > Chatham, ON, Canada 	 > N7M 1P7  > F > And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups,E > email it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it to F > newspapers and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do > with Montreal or Canada, etc.  >  >  > *** APPENDIX *** > B > List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over theH > years.  This is only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to > compile a full list. >  > jfmezei@teksavvy.com > jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com > jfmezei@istop.com  > jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com  > jfmezei@videotron.ca > jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  > nospam.jfmezei@videotron.ca   > "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] >  > nobody <nobody@nobody.com> > nobody <nobody@nobody.net> > nobody <nobody@nobody.org> > nobody <nobody@nobody.info>  > nobody <nobody@nobody.int> > nobody <nobody@nothing.nil>  > nobody <nobody@null.dev>% > Janice Staples <jstaples@noaol.com> + > Lorenna Bobbit <lbobbit@ginsu_knives.com> ) > Lando Calrisian <Lcalrisian@empire.org>  > muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> > Sheep skin <sheep@station.au> % > snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree> + > Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org> ( > Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>& > Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>' > Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  > Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>' > Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> $ > Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>& > Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>/ > Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ) > Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> $ > Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> > Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ) > Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> * > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>( > Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org>! > Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ) > Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> ' > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  > Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> # > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> % > Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org> " > Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>& > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>( > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>& > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>, > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>  > Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org># > Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org> ! > Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> & > Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org># > Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> # > Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org> " > Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>& > Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>  > Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>' > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> ' > Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> & > Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> > Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> ( > Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>* > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>' > Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> ' > Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> ( > Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>, > Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>( > Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>) > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ) > Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> * > Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>. > Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>0 > Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> > Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ) > Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> ' > Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> & > Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>$ > Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>( > Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>% > Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> * > Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>' > Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> $ > Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>' > Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> ( > Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>) > Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> + > Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) > Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> $ > Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>* > Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>. > George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>- > Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> , > Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>* > Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>) > Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> , > Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org>! > T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  > Q <queue@continuum.net>  > Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>, > Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>+ > John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>  > = > *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*  >     2 Wow!  Thanks for all the info - I never knew this!   --   Best Greg   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:32:26 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms= Message-ID: <QOSdna7Uhb95imncRVn-sw@metrocastcablevision.com>    John Smith wrote:    ...   G > Without further clarification, it is possible to categorize  Gorham's C > statement into what Twain call "Lies, damn lies, and statistics".   G Leaving aside the question of exactly how current the figures are (the  9 perpetual 411,000 installed-base count comes to mind...).   	   I'm not M > saying that Gorham didn't say what he meant but examine his words and don't  > make assumptions:  > L > "The OpenVMS business has seen recent growth in the low double digits year= > over year. ..."  and "10 to 15 percent of our business...." ( > What exactly do these statements mean?8 > Does it mean that revenues are growing at those rates?5 > Does it mean that profits are growing at that rate? N > Does it mean that the number of new customers added to the VMS customer base > is growing at that rate?D > Does it mean that one or two new customers can skew the results so) > significantly because sales are so low?  > Just what does it mean?    Exactly.  I Back in the days when at least some of what Terry said could be taken as  F reasonably accurate (i.e., pre-Alphacide), he was prone to state that G 10% - 15% of the VMS customer base was new each year.  Of course, that  F said nothing about whether the overall base was growing or shrinking, E but at least it seemed clearly to apply to the customer count rather  E than, e.g., to the percentage of revenue derived from new accounts -  B which could have been larger or smaller depending on the relative # composition of those new customers.   C And back during the brief 'VMS renaissance' VMS was growing in the  G high-single-digit range annually, almost certainly from a considerably  E larger installed base than it enjoys today.  For example, if Mark is  H referring only to sales figures (which could easily be a small fraction H of what they were back then, given the enormous contribution of service F revenues to the VMS total and the amount which this total has shrunk, D the majority of such shrinkage likely having been in new purchases, C since service tends to be purchased until the existing hardware is  C retired regardless of how the customer may feel about the vendor),  > low-double-digit growth could easily be created by one or two  significant sales.  E Or not.  Given how prone cHumPaq's pronouncements in such areas have  I been to absurdly optimistic spin, it would not be wise to give them much  F credence absent very specific numbers and definitions thereof.  After I all, it was only a few days ago that Ann Livermore was gushing about how  H superior Itanic was to POWER in TPC-H, when in fact exactly the reverse  appears to be the case.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 05:53:22 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com " Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms- Message-ID: <87y8ejyfql.fsf@prep.synonet.com>*  9 hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:*  B > Q: It seems that HP is quite satified with the installed base ofE > OpenVMS. But, are you looking for *NEW* customers, too? If so, what @ > are your arguments to convince a new customer to stay off fromC > Windows and Linux/Unix?  Ann Livermore (A): What we find today isOF > that it is difficult to convince new customers to adopt an operatingA > environment that they do not view as an industry standard. Thate: > makes it hard for HP to attract lots of new customers toD > OpenVMS. Our greatest sales success comes from those customers who@ > already have OpenVMS and choose to expand into new applicationD > areas. If you have suggestions for us, we would love to hear them!  D Well, there was a good example here quite a while ago. I suspect sheF does not want to know. Plus they have cut their throat on a whole raft  of Mil/Aero system opertunities.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 17:41:28 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)Q" Subject: RE: Apathy on comp.os.vms3 Message-ID: <FGmyCfhzhU92@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB53EB89@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >> -----Original Message----- D >> From: Bradford J. Hamilton [mailto:hamilton@Encompasserve.org]=20! >> Sent: January 23, 2005 1:09 AM5 >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com% >> Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vmse >>=20e> >> In article <41F353F9.8000408@tsoft-inc.com>, Dave Froble=20  >> <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >> !JF Mezei wrote:u	 >> !snip!a >> !@ >> !Could you go through what Ann said and find and post here=20 >> the point where she=20E@ >> !said that they weren't interested in growing VMS?  I must=20 >> have missed it.  What=20CB >> !I did read, I think, is her saying that it was difficult to=20 >> get some/many people=20H >> !to accept other than what they considered an 'industry standard' OS. >>=20g >> Perhaps he means this one:  >>=20eC >> Q: It seems that HP is quite satified with the installed base=20h >> of OpenVMS. But,.? >> are you looking for *NEW* customers, too? If so, what are=20e >> your arguments toC >> convince a new customer to stay off from Windows and Linux/Unix?HC >> Ann Livermore (A): What we find today is that it is difficult=209 >> to convince newB >> customers to adopt an operating environment that they do not=20
 >> view as an B >> industry standard. That makes it hard for HP to attract lots=20 >> of new customersi= >> to OpenVMS. Our greatest sales success comes from those=20r >> customers who alreadyC >> have OpenVMS and choose to expand into new application areas.=20t >> If you have2 >> suggestions for us, we would love to hear them! >>=20 C >> If this is the quote, I find it a little hard to believe that=20e
 >> hp "is not ' >> interested" in growing the business.  >>=20eA >> I _do_ know, however, that there is a long-time PDP/VMS ISV=20  >> that is tellingA >> its customers, potential and otherwise, that VMS is "crap",=20y >> and to switch totA >> their Windows product.  When questioned, the folks involved=20  >> state that they areA >> just telling the customers what they want to hear, and that=20r >> customers are >> telling them the same thing.  >>=20' >  > [snip ..]a >  >> ! > G > While obviously every situation is different, I also heard of one ISVaH > who 3 years ago invested a pile of $'s into their Windows product thatJ > fits into the traditionally mission critical VMS space and then tried toI > convince their Customers "that Windows was the way to go", "that's whatoH > analysts are saying..", "that's what Cust's want to hear.." yada, yada > .. > D > They then found many of their Customers could not live with the OSA > vendor recommended monthly security / patch / reboots / lack ofhG > clustering/stability that they were used to etc ... Many ISV's forgetiC > that many Custs do not do patches unless they have been QA'ed andxG > tested. The Custs were not willing to switch. So now what does an ISVt > do?l > H > Last I heard (about 15 months ago, albeit) was that this ISV was againB > re-investing in their VMS version of the same product. They also9 > recently ported their product to Itanium / VMS as well.l >   ' 	Kerry may or not be referring to this:n   Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsr, Subject: Re: Looking for VMS experts opinion  Date: 13 Aug 2004 14:47:16 -0500    L For about 10 years between the 1980's and 1990's our management decided that VMSaO was archaic and developed a Windows/unix version of our software.  Even though pL we continued to support our VMS customers, management dictated that we stop M selling the VMS version to new customers.  We had terrible problems with the eP Windows version of our software (for various reasons that I won't go into here) O and it got us a huge black eye with customers and lost us alot of market share.t  O This past year, on the verge of calling it quits, management decided to try to TP start selling the VMS product to new customers as a last-ditch effort to regain P our lost market share and stay in business.  We dumped the windows/unix version G (although it's our policy to support existing customers, no matter the l
 platform).  D I was on the teams that did our latest (and first two) new customer N installations of the software and can report that we didn't have the problems M that our windows software installations had.  Both projects "went live" with lP zero downtime and only minor issues.  Both continue to run with zero downtime.  O All of our customers are encouraged and we have new customers again looking at aO us as a potential vendor.  Management has noticed this, and although it hasn't sH been decided (or announced at least) yet, I'm sure we'll continue to do % business and regain our market share.f     				Robu   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:42:01 -0600f2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: Apathy on comp.os.vms+ Message-ID: <41F46E89.437A48FE@comcast.net>u   JF Mezei wrote:d > F > Last week, there was an announcement by Ann Livermore that HP wasn'tP > interested in growing VMS and was happy just keeping the installed base happy. > J > I years past, this would have generated a huge flurry of message on thisG > newsgroup with smoke coming out of people's ears who coudln't believeiJ > someone would say this, how HP was killing its cash cow etc etc etc etc. > J > Yet, this week, this was announced, and people seemed resigned to accept > it without much of a comment.  > @ > VMS is being ported to a dying platform nobody wants, HP isn'tG > interested in growing VMS.  Linux is free and growing. Are people nowbI > resigned to the inevitable and don't have the energy to fight anymore ?   F Well, no - we don't. One might even be tempted to say, "the *CENSORED*D is winning". Truth is, though, so much is lost, and so much is graveF peril, we're rather like the hero who looks at the seemingly lost hope. and has to search for something worth saving.   F VMS is worth saving. We're at a point, I think, where we've so much of? what doesn't work, that searching for what does work has beomce  all-engrossing.   G The outcry here when VMS seems to lose a little more is tesimony enoughxE to the sentiments many of us share. Leverage is the key issue at thist	 juncture.n  F For myself, I'd really like to be like Keith Parris and Rob Young, allD sunshine, roses and glee. So long as the key source of my livelihood@ (and theirs) remains an "endangered species", I have to take theF sunshine that HP seems more than willing to blow up my skirt and colorE it with a good dose of reality, lest I be led down the primrose path,a' like so many former "DECies" before me.n   -- a David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:h" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/e   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 05:48:56 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.comhY Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips chipschih- Message-ID: <873bwrzuif.fsf@prep.synonet.com>    bob@instantwhip.com writes:o  C > the x86 is a boat anchor ... a new chip for servers is needed ...   9 The sky is falling!! Something from Bob I can agree with.    -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.b@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:25:28 -0600g2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>A Subject: Re: Connecting VAX VMS (5.2) to PC (Windows 2000 Server)t+ Message-ID: <41F46AA8.3392F759@comcast.net>l   mark_doherty@yahoo.co.uk wrote:y > ! > > > We do not have LAT running.t: > > > SHOW NETWORK shows the node 202.1 is on the network, > >m< > > That's not a valid DECnet address. DECnet addresses are: > Sorry, 1.202 > >k( > > > To configure the other system do I! > > > install Kermit 95 on the pcc > B > It appears that Kermit 95 does not support DECnet or LAT withoutG > Pathworks 32 (7+) (and pathworks needs open vms), so I suppose that Is( > will have to use a TCP/IP stack (CMU).( > Are there performance issues with CMU?  G Well, be careful: DECnet on the PC requires only another DECnet node tosG communicate with. Likewise, LAT needs only a node offering services via.G LAT. Neither REQUIREs Pathworks, unless you intend to use disk, file or  print services.a  D If you can find an older PWRKs distro. (V4.1 might be good), you canE hack DECnet and LAT such that they do not require a VMS(, etc.) host.0  D CMY is VAX only. If you're doing the hobbyist (read: non-commercial)@ thing, go for Multinet or TCPware, UCX would be my third choice.   -- y David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems@ http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/F   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 16:07:37 -0800! From: google_groups_usa@yahoo.comn& Subject: Have you heard the GOOD NEWS?C Message-ID: <1106525257.139521.219040@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>e  5 http://www3.boxke.net << click link for the good newsl   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jan 2005 21:42:11 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>S Subject: Re: HP World Magazine: For Business Continuity...the answer may be OpenVMSn5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-s0dRo36dROE3@localhost>.  4 On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:20:32 UTC, "Dave Weatherall" ! <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote:.  , > On Sat, 8 May 2004 21:44:11 UTC, JF Mezei ' > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:l > $ > > Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:P > > > My prediction: VMS will die with/cause-of ITANIC and earlier than we fear. > >     E Sorry for the confusion lads. I accidently started up my news-reader oD on a partition that was over six months old... must have left these F two messages in the despatch queue somehow.. I'm tired now - spent all- day going round in circles...my fault too....l   -- o Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:05:52 -0500<' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>e: Subject: Re: Marcello predicts 500% perfomance improvement, Message-ID: <41F49040.3010107@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Todd wrote:   > Alex Daniels wrote:t >  > ...e > E >> The project the Alpha team were/are working on is Tukwilla, a new p
 >> version of>K >> the Itanium, which would also feature a new FSB and have "more than fourl
 >> cores". >>G >> The Inquirer claimed they were moved off the project, with the Fort <
 >> CollinsG >> (Blue HP) team getting the job instead, leaving the Alpha team with o >> just then >> FSB.. >>, >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20270 >>F >> This week I put the question to Jim Kavanagh (Business Development  >> Manager, I >> Intel), he said it was untrue, and the Alpha team are still working on  >> Tukwilla. >  > A > I suspect you just didn't parse his words with sufficient care.@ > D > The Alpha team reportedly were working on both a new core and new E > on-chip (probably EV7-style) memory/router support.  IIRC what The nG > Inquirer reported (though not in the article you cited) was that the oI > ancillary on-chip support would survive but that the Fort Collins team n> > would be taking over the core development and stuffing in a L > McKinley/Madison/Montecito descendant in place of the Alpha-designed core. > K > So without doubt *some* of the Alpha team - that portion working on said lK > ancillary on-chip support - is still working on Tukwila.  But a credible eH > source separate from The Inquirer has told me that others on the team > > are now involved in the mysterious 'project Z', not Tukwila. >  > - bill  N Has your 'credible source' ever commented on the use, or lack of, EPIC in the 2 new core the Alpha team was reportedly working on?  J It's only reasonable that anyone would want the on-chip memory and router N support.  That's one of the areas where Power and Opteron are kicking Intel's 	 ass.  :-)m  J I seem to remember reading a report of the research into a many-processor O concept that carried the 'EV10' label.  The little I've seen about 'project Z' wK also mentions many cores, if I remember correctly.  Interesting tidbits to @ possibly tie together.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:26:10 -0500y# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>o@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS, Message-ID: <m8ydndUP05HOZ27cRVn-sg@igs.net>  
 AEF wrote: > Bill Todd wrote:
 >> AEF wrote:o > [...]r >>C >> When Alpha was killed, Compaq made an all-out effort of spin andsG >> outright lies effort to try to justify it to its customer base.  AndnD >> much of the customer base seemed fairly uncritically receptive to >> that effort.e >>B >> If the few of us who knew better had not spoken up against bothC >> Compaq and the Itanic abortion, VMS, and even Tru64, sales would  >> likely have > G >> been considerably better over the past 3.5 years than they have been2 >> - > H > So what I gather what your saying is is that if you had not spoken up,D > VMS sales would have been better. So you reduced VMS sales. How isD > that a good thing? Please try to be more clear since this can't beD > what you meant but it is what you said above. Just how is reducing= > VMS sales as you say above something that you are proud of?r >s >  > [...]v >a > [...]0 > H >>> Now just how does JF's whining constitute an effective stick? How isG >>> whining, including invalid complaints, going to do any good at all,l8 >>> especially when it is so easily ignored by hp execs? >>F >> It is less easily ignored by HP stockholders and Wall Street.  As IH >> noted above, Carly is not their darling any more, and the collapse in >i@ >> enterprise computing sales which she has helped engineer is aB >> significant part of the reason why.  But in any event you don'tF >> appear to be in any position to be able to provide credible insight; >> into which complaints may be valid and which may not be.  >iH > Au contraire. JF complained that the pages that Keith pointed out wereE > deeply buried beneath layers and layers and menus and pages. I have H > shown in another post that that is simply not true. JF complained thatD > Ann said that hp is not interested in growing VMS. She did not sayG > that. Sure, hp may still not be interested in growing VMS, but that's  > not what she said.    K Ann Livermore said: "What we find today is that it is difficult to convince  new G customers to adopt an operating environment that they do not view as an C industry standard. That makes it hard for HP to attract lots of newi	 customers E to OpenVMS. Our greatest sales success comes from those customers whoo alreadyeI have OpenVMS and choose to expand into new application areas. If you have 0 suggestions for us, we would love to hear them!"     So let's look at that:E HP sales droid approches prospective new customer in a dark alley andeH flashes open the overcoat 'Pssst, buddy! Wannna buy an operating system?. It's called OpenVMS but the 'Open' is silent."  J The prospective customer sez, "Whaazzat? Never heard of it. I studied unixJ in school and you're been busy promoting and advertising your expertise inH Windows and Linux-based solutions. Howcome I never heard of 'dis OpenVMSB stuff? Whattaya trying to do...just meet your quota or something?"  * HP says they "Listen", but they don't act.G They certainly can't "Think" (not just because that's an IBM thing) but ? mostly because it seems you'd be handed a pink slip if you did.hK But they certainly seem to "Invent" every excuse possible not to adequatelyu and effectively promote VMS.  H Numerous suggestions have been sent to HP and its precedecessors. You'veG heard that when positive advertising and marketing action occurs, salesaK increase.  We've also heard Gorham claim that VMS numbers (in some units of F measure) are up without advertising. If I were Gorham and my bonus wasL predicated on VMS revenues/profitability, I'd be jumping up and down lookingI for a big advertising budget to go along with my 'natural' year-over-yearsC sales increase - that way I'd get total comp higher than carly(tm).   F If VMS is on a 'roll' of some sort (accoring to Gorham's numbers) thenL what's wrong with giving it some additional help in the form of advertising, marketing, and promotion.J  L JF is right - how hard would it have been for Livermore to have just mouthedL the words of rabid or not so rabid support? It would have cost nothing to do/ so. As it is, VMS was damned with faint praise.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:34:38 -0500i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS+ Message-ID: <41F40A5C.6C9657A@teksavvy.com>c  
 AEF wrote:H > Au contraire. JF complained that the pages that Keith pointed out wereE > deeply buried beneath layers and layers and menus and pages. I have 5 > shown in another post that that is simply not true.   E Going to a a page that was supposedly a live web cast done a week agotG isn't excatly what most people would do.  Why is it so difficult for HP , to put those links right on the front page ?  G Heck, they just got a new product that finally supposedly fits in theiraG strategic vision of servers. When HP got the IPOD or some TCV set, theyz< have no problem blasting the media ad their web site for it.    E You know what, if HP is able to put "HP recomments you use Windows XP F Professional" on top of a large percentage of their web pages, why notF remove it and put a text such as "click here to visit the VMS web siteF to find out obout our new robust trustable servers you can count on" ?/ (O rmore suimply "HP recommends to use VMS 8.2"o   OR BETTER YET:  . VMS is today what Windows will be in 15 years"  F NO, none of that was done. It doesn't take a madison avenue firm being) paid $2000000000 to think up such ideas.     > JF complained thatD > Ann said that hp is not interested in growing VMS. She did not sayG > that. Sure, hp may still not be interested in growing VMS, but that's  > not what she said.    ? You are obviously not able to read between the lines are you ? f  F Ann Livermore clearly stated HP had no intentions to grow VMS.  Had HPE had intentions to give VMS a chance, her answer would have been quiteh different from what she said.   ? You want to pin me down on here exact words. Fine. They you arekF technically right.  But use your head and consider she is some exec VPH of a large multinational. She talks like a politician, carefully wordingC what she says, making sure she doesn't commit to anything she's note wanting to commit to.d  C Had there been a clear decision that since VMS was no on IA64, thatiF barriers to marketing would be lifted, you can bet your derrrire that0 Livermore would have answered quite differently.  B Remember that this was a staged event, she took her time to answer# questions. She meant what she said.g  G > deeply buried. In fact, just the opposite. VMS got TOP BILLING on thet > Web event.  E Oh yeah ? In Carly's presentation, I don't recall hearing VMS once. I D heard keywords like vistualization, RFID but not much else. You call that top Billing ?    H Now, they hmay have revised the recorded presentation since then. But on: the day of the supposedly live event, that is all I heard.  E And I did comment that the press releases and media coverage prior tor> the event had more VMS coverage in them than the actual event.  G > While I am not happy with your string of insults, I am flattered thatu$ > you care so much about my opinion     A Funny, you can't read between Anne Livermore's text, but you seemnC capable of finding insults I allegedly made at you. If there is anynG insulting going on here, it is always directed towards me, and I rarelyr" ever point insults at indivuduals.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 13:05:10 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMSC Message-ID: <1106514310.777446.155580@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    John Smith wrote:s > AEF wrote: > > Bill Todd wrote: > >> AEF wrote:y	 > > [...]i [...]iD > Ann Livermore said: "What we find today is that it is difficult to convince > newuF > customers to adopt an operating environment that they do not view as anE > industry standard. That makes it hard for HP to attract lots of newh > customerspG > to OpenVMS. Our greatest sales success comes from those customers whob	 > already F > have OpenVMS and choose to expand into new application areas. If you have2 > suggestions for us, we would love to hear them!" >  >l > So let's look at that:G > HP sales droid approches prospective new customer in a dark alley and B > flashes open the overcoat 'Pssst, buddy! Wannna buy an operating system?o0 > It's called OpenVMS but the 'Open' is silent."  B How do you get this from that quote? What's with the alley and the	 overcoat?t   >oG > The prospective customer sez, "Whaazzat? Never heard of it. I studiedc unix? > in school and you're been busy promoting and advertising yourh expertise inB > Windows and Linux-based solutions. Howcome I never heard of 'dis OpenVMSaD > stuff? Whattaya trying to do...just meet your quota or something?"  A With this you're just proving Ann's point about the difficulty ofsB selling VMS. (Especially with the alley and overcoat approach! :-)  , > HP says they "Listen", but they don't act.E > They certainly can't "Think" (not just because that's an IBM thing)d butrA > mostly because it seems you'd be handed a pink slip if you did.pB > But they certainly seem to "Invent" every excuse possible not to
 adequately > and effectively promote VMS.  * Fine, but JF's statements are still wrong.  C > Numerous suggestions have been sent to HP and its precedecessors.t You'veC > heard that when positive advertising and marketing action occurs,p sales D > increase.  We've also heard Gorham claim that VMS numbers (in some units ofD > measure) are up without advertising. If I were Gorham and my bonus was F > predicated on VMS revenues/profitability, I'd be jumping up and down lookingi< > for a big advertising budget to go along with my 'natural' year-over-yearE > sales increase - that way I'd get total comp higher than carly(tm).s > C > If VMS is on a 'roll' of some sort (accoring to Gorham's numbers)g thenA > what's wrong with giving it some additional help in the form ofr advertising, > marketing, and promotion.u  A Nothing. I am merely objecting to JF twisting Ann's comments into?A something she clearly did not say, and to his rude comments aboutoD Carly's appearance, and his mistake about pages being deeply buried.- And none of your comments change any of that.l  F > JF is right - how hard would it have been for Livermore to have just mouthed-@ > the words of rabid or not so rabid support? It would have cost
 nothing to dot1 > so. As it is, VMS was damned with faint praise.o  C That wasn't the question. The question wasn't "What do you think ofp6 VMS?" (And Ann DID mouth words of support. See below.)  F Ann said that hp finds it hard to market VMS against its perception ofD not being industry standard. So obviously hp doesn't feel it's worth9 the effort. That doesn't mean they don't want more sales.    Here's what JF said:  E "Last week, there was an announcement by Ann Livermore that HP wasn't G interested in growing VMS and was happy just keeping the installed baseo happy."   G Nowhere did she say she or hp was happy with just keeping the installedcB base happy. Nowhere did she say that she or hp have no interest in growing VMS. She saidn  F "... Our greatest sales success comes from those customers who alreadyD have OpenVMS and choose to expand into new application areas. If you5 have suggestions for us, we would love to hear them!"i  G In fact, by asking for suggestions, she's implying that hp DOES want tomB grow the VMS base. Now it may still be that hp really doesn't careG about growing the VMS base, BUT NOTHING SHE SAID IMPLIES THAT, IN FACT,sF SHE'S ASKING FOR SUGGESTIONS FOR SELLING MORE VMS. I am not commentingF on the truth of what she said. I am merely saying you have to twist itG almost 180 degrees into saying that she is saying that hp does not wants to grow VMS.  D And JF was wrong, absolutely wrong, about the VMS pages being deeplyG buried. go to hp.com yourself and see! They are as I described in priorm posts.  ) And here's another snippet from the chat:m  D Q: Ann: Can we now expect to see OpenVMS gain more visibility to new3 customers now that it has been ported to Integrity?l? Ann Livermore (A): We certainly hope so! It's a great operating>A environment, and clearly today's Integrity announcement gives thea solution a strong future.i  C According to JF, this would mean that hp has already killed VMS. Ini6 fact, I'm surprised he didn't criticize this one also!  F According to me, these look like very positive words about VMS. She is> clearly saying that we (read hp) is hoping that VMS gains more$ visiblity! How more clear can it be!   More from the chat:w  G Q: When will the higher-ups at HP realize the value of VMS as being notaE just another version of a toy operating system, or a billybox OS, andnD really tout it as unique, solid, reliable, mission-critical, etc? Or< are you all so caught up in towing the Microsoft party line?  @ Ann Livermore (A): OpenVMS is one of the most powerful operatingD environments in the industry. The fact that we chose to make OpenVMSG available on Integrity speaks to the fact that HP executives understandn: its value and want it as a powerful part of our portfolio.  F Looks like praise to me! OK, the question asked about hp touting it asF super duper, and hp is not going out of its way to advertise that. ButD the complaints I'm hearing are that Ann didn't praise VMS or say any0 positive words about it. But she did right here!   And there's more!:  C Q: Ann, Being an HP SMB partner, I like your answer to the questionlF regarding your Consulting Division. What plans does HP have to connectE customers in need with its partners that can deliver these services ?eD The question is somewhat OpenVMS specific. We are told that there isF lot's of support/migration work out there. More with the Integrity nowE in play. How can experienced partners help H.P. in keeping OpenVMS at.* the best-in-breed level is now exists at ?? Ann Livermore (A): The delivery of great services by HP and ouroB partners is what makes OpenVMS customers so loyal. Services aroundB OpenVMS can be a great business opportunity for you. Your local HPF sales or marketing contacts can help get you any information you need.  E Looks like she's trying to woo ISV's for VMS! I don't see how you cano' interpret this as anything but pro-VMS.   A And here's an UNSOLICITED POSITIVE REFERENCE TO VMS. UNSOLICITED!l  G Q: What are the three main changes and the three main advantages of thec new Itanium 2 processor ?rB Brian Cox (A): The three main changes are faster frequency, largerG cache size and lower costs for the new Itanium 2 processor line-up. The.C advantages are faster application performance, even more attractivee> cost of ownership and growing OS support (with the addition of OpenVMS)/many new applications.y  E Now I'm not saying all is fine -- I am merely refuting what I believeRF to be invalid criticisms of the Web event. I see nowhere in this eventB that VMS was not given the same respect as other OSes. In fact, itF received TOP BILLING. Additionally, many positive statements about VMS were typed in the chat.v  G Sure, more is needed. But yelling, insulting, whining, and the like areSE not going to help. Look at baseball: a questionable call is made. The D manager storms out of the dugout and yells at the ump. Has that evenG once ever caused the ump to reconsider and reverse his call? I'm not anrD expert on this but I'd be surprised if it happened even 1 percent of	 the time..  9 A drop of honey gathers more flies than a gallon of gall.e  G I have no objection to valid criticism offered in a non-hostile manner.VE We have a difficult task ahead of us. We must try to convince hp thatrC it is worth the effort to advertise VMS. We must show them how theytG will profit from it. Yes, I heard that this has already been tried, but @ so has the negative approach. Criticism is fine if not done withG hositility, derision, etc. And it may well be the case there is NOTHINGoB we can do. But we can try. Things are different now. They have theD Integrity servers they want to sell. And maybe they're trying to useD VMS to help sell them. So the situation is different and discussions= about promoting VMS for VMS's sake may work better this time.e  F I think in addition to doing whatever it takes to maintain the current> VMS customer base, efforts should be made to sell VMS to thoseF customers who don't have VMS now, but would be the easiest to woo into6 buying a VMS solution. And then "snowball" from there.  	 >---0---<a  E Just because a certain variation of a method fails, doesn't mean thatsD some other variation wouldn't succeed. Look at Edison's invention ofE the lightbulb. He persisted with an idea that ultimately won bigtime,VC but it took a lot of trial and error, mostly error, before he founduC something that worked. Look at the history of rockets. Many, if nothE most, of the early attempts failed spectacularly by blowing up on the C launch pad or shortly after launch. But continued work improved thea9 basic method and much has been accomplished with rockets.u  ? If you were hp and you read JF's comments, how would you react?h  C You can complain about what hp does or doesn't do. You can make allcF your theories about why they hate VMS, and you can talk about ulteriorG motives and what not, but you can't say that this chat didn't have manyeC good things to say about VMS!!! And you can't say VMS was not giveneD good visibility in the chat. In fact, it had top billing, aside from, the Integrity servers themselves, of course.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 14:43:40 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMSC Message-ID: <1106520220.509477.205260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>l   JF Mezei wrote:e > AEF wrote:E > > Au contraire. JF complained that the pages that Keith pointed out  wereG > > deeply buried beneath layers and layers and menus and pages. I have.7 > > shown in another post that that is simply not true.  >iG > Going to a a page that was supposedly a live web cast done a week agohF > isn't excatly what most people would do.  Why is it so difficult for HP. > to put those links right on the front page ?  E Fine. But that's not what I responded to. I responded to your "layerswE and layers and menus and pages". It takes only two clicks to get from B www.hp.com to VMS. And only two clicks from the Web event video to7 nothing but pages with endless glowing words about VMS.a  C > Heck, they just got a new product that finally supposedly fits inM theirgD > strategic vision of servers. When HP got the IPOD or some TCV set, they> > have no problem blasting the media ad their web site for it.  E I didn't check then but I'll take your word for it. You're then rightdB that hp is not promoting VMS like it did the ipod. My claims still hold.   G > You know what, if HP is able to put "HP recomments you use Windows XP.D > Professional" on top of a large percentage of their web pages, why not C > remove it and put a text such as "click here to visit the VMS web  siteF > to find out obout our new robust trustable servers you can count on" ?e1 > (O rmore suimply "HP recommends to use VMS 8.2"   E I do remember seeing the "HP recommends XP" during or just before thelG event, briefly, on the original day. But I don't see it anywhere on the0C site now! You're right that that is very bad and, at least from ournD point of view, they should say the same but substituting VMS for XP.D But I can't find any such page now. Please provide some links if youG find any, and you may well find some as I didn't check the entire site.M   >e > OR BETTER YET: >f0 > VMS is today what Windows will be in 15 years"  
 I doubt it!!!n  B > NO, none of that was done. It doesn't take a madison avenue firm beingo* > paid $2000000000 to think up such ideas.  D Yes, that would have been better. but I still disagree with you thatE the Web event was a total loss. I pointed out many positive things inw' the chat and Web event in my last post.>   > > JF complained thatF > > Ann said that hp is not interested in growing VMS. She did not sayB > > that. Sure, hp may still not be interested in growing VMS, but that's > > not what she said. >/ >y@ > You are obviously not able to read between the lines are you ? >yE > Ann Livermore clearly stated HP had no intentions to grow VMS.  Hadt HPG > had intentions to give VMS a chance, her answer would have been quiteB > different from what she said.*  G Well, we'll have to simply disagree on this. It may well be that hp haseE no intention of growing VMS, but that is not what she said. She asked(G for suggestions about how to sell VMS to non-VMS sites? Now just how is>G that indicitave of not wanting to sell VMS? Remember, she said it was a 
 hard sell.  G Reading between the lines is not the same as "she said". And again, I'muF not saying that hp DOES want to grow VMS, but I simply don't think her! answer was negative as you claim.   A > You want to pin me down on here exact words. Fine. They you areoE > technically right.  But use your head and consider she is some execI VPB > of a large multinational. She talks like a politician, carefully wording E > what she says, making sure she doesn't commit to anything she's note > wanting to commit to.i   OK, so?I  E > Had there been a clear decision that since VMS was no on IA64, thataE > barriers to marketing would be lifted, you can bet your derrri=E8reW that2 > Livermore would have answered quite differently.  F Yes, and maybe they still want to grow VMS but feel it isn't worth theB effort. We, of course, disagree with that, but that is what she isE saying. And if the breif "Renasisance" did significantly boost sales, C then it may not be that hard a sell. But that was 4 or 5 years ago.t  D > Remember that this was a staged event, she took her time to answer% > questions. She meant what she said.v  E Well, she asked for suggestions for how to sell VMS to non-VMS sites!nG So, since you say she meant what she said, then she meant that! So send.F her some freindly suggestions, like, to take some of the wonderful VMSC promotional pages and edit them down to a full page ad in somethingh* like Computer Weekly or some other IT rag.  E > > deeply buried. In fact, just the opposite. VMS got TOP BILLING ons the  > > Web event. >xG > Oh yeah ? In Carly's presentation, I don't recall hearing VMS once. ItF > heard keywords like vistualization, RFID but not much else. You call > that top Billing ?  F I said top billing among hp's OSes. and that's true, at least thru theG New Products link. I will have to review the text of the 3 speeches andeC get back to you on this. But VMS did well also in the chat in otherg4 questions I posted in response to John Smith's post.   > G > Now, they hmay have revised the recorded presentation since then. Bute on< > the day of the supposedly live event, that is all I heard.  E I said that VMS was given top billing AMONG HP OSES which you can seemG by clicking the New Products link. I don't remember if any of the talkss% mentioned any OSes. I'll check later.   G > And I did comment that the press releases and media coverage prior toe@ > the event had more VMS coverage in them than the actual event.   I missed that.  D > > While I am not happy with your string of insults, I am flattered that% > > you care so much about my opinion  >n >cC > Funny, you can't read between Anne Livermore's text, but you seem E > capable of finding insults I allegedly made at you. If there is anyoB > insulting going on here, it is always directed towards me, and I rarely$ > ever point insults at indivuduals.  C JF, I was not complaining about you insulting me. I was complainingtC about Bill Todd insulting me. If you check you'll see my post was aa= response to Bill's. I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression.   F Yes, there is plenty of room for improvement for hp promoting VMS. ButC I thing that overall, the Web event was positive for VMS. Some willa
 disagree. OK.t   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 16:25:27 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMSC Message-ID: <1106526327.127929.319600@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>2   JF Mezei wrote:  > AEF wrote:E > > Au contraire. JF complained that the pages that Keith pointed outm wereG > > deeply buried beneath layers and layers and menus and pages. I have 7 > > shown in another post that that is simply not true.h >HG > Going to a a page that was supposedly a live web cast done a week agoaF > isn't excatly what most people would do.  Why is it so difficult for HP. > to put those links right on the front page ?  G Well, in a way they did with the Web event. That IS on the "front page"oE which quickly takes you to VMS (if you read/view Rich's talk or visith the New Products link).p   [...]   E > > deeply buried. In fact, just the opposite. VMS got TOP BILLING onp the  > > Web event. > G > Oh yeah ? In Carly's presentation, I don't recall hearing VMS once. IrF > heard keywords like vistualization, RFID but not much else. You call > that top Billing ?  G As I promised in my last post, I would go back and check. I re-read theEF transcripts. Carly says nothing about any OS. Ann mentioned "Mircosoft7 and Intel" but the MS reference was for apps, not OSes.i   And now, Rich:  G "With our third announcement for today, the list of available operatingaE environments just got longer, as we are releasing OpenVMS version 8.2rE on Integrity. The production release of OpenVMS 8.2 not only providesrG you with outstanding price/performance, reduces total cost of ownershipeD and offers investment protection for OpenVMS operating environments,< but also ensures greater adaptability and flexibility for IT environments in general"  B No other OS got this much good press in any of the three speakers'9 talks. And no OS was mentioned in Carly's and Ann's talk.e  0 So my assertion remains true even for the talks.  D Yes, I know, there were techinical problems with each speaker's talkD getting stuck in a loop. Well, that's too bad. (No, I don't think it4 was a deliberate goof to hide good words about VMS).  C Still, there is much room for improvement, but it was fun to see souC much good press for VMS. Now, they need to get VMS links on more of.F their Web pages, esp. for the clustering page, any security pages, andD solutions pages (not an exhaustive list). And some real advertising.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:58:27 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS= Message-ID: <W_Wdncn6F4iz1WncRVn-jQ@metrocastcablevision.com>   
 AEF wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: >  >>AEF wrote: >  > [...]a > B >>When Alpha was killed, Compaq made an all-out effort of spin andF >>outright lies effort to try to justify it to its customer base.  AndC >>much of the customer base seemed fairly uncritically receptive to  >  > that > 	 >>effort.  >>A >>If the few of us who knew better had not spoken up against bothl >  > Compaq > G >>and the Itanic abortion, VMS, and even Tru64, sales would likely haveu >  > F >>been considerably better over the past 3.5 years than they have been >  > -a > H > So what I gather what your saying is is that if you had not spoken up,I > VMS sales would have been better. So you reduced VMS sales. How is thatr > a good thing?4  G People making informed decisions rather than being misled by unethical  F vendors is what is a good thing.  There are plenty of people here who G understand the strengths of VMS, but a lot of them seemed rather blind dH to the faults and outright lies of its owner - and OS strength alone is G not sufficient to build your future on (with the possible exception of oA open source platforms where you aren't dependent on a particular w vendor's performance).  F The people who were going to stick with VMS no matter what might have G preferred that everyone else blindly do the same thing, maximizing the eI (in my opinion rather faint) possibility that HP would, finally, realize aI what a gem they had in the product and shape up.  So they might not have nE wanted others alerted to the vendor-related risks (e.g., killing VMS rE development as abruptly as it did Alpha development whenever it felt tE like it, regardless of what firm 'commitments' it might have made in ' that area).h  D Tough.  It's not the responsibility of others to take on risks they F might choose to avoid if informed of them just to - possibly - reduce D the risk to you from the choices you have made.  If you want VMS to G thrive, don't try to spin away the serious concerns about its vendor's gB commitment but instead get that vendor to demonstrate some *real* I long-term commitment by serious marketing plus serious development.  The SH port doesn't count:  it was primarily to keep existing customers in the G fold, just as the pie-in-the-sky port of AdvFS and clustering to PH-UX eH was money spent to keep as many Tru64 customers as possible in the fold E until such time as HP decided the remainder weren't worth the effort.l  D Statements like Livermore's are worth exactly zilch in this regard: G money talks, bullsh!t walks, as they say - not that VMS even gets much aE in the way of the latter, usually being by a considerable margin the DB most invisible of HP's OS offerings whenever HP talks with anyone H outside the existing VMS community.  Of course, the fact that Livermore E accompanied her vacuous VMS statements with some outright lies about .I Itanic's performance relative to POWER doesn't increase one's confidence : even in her content-free spin.   ...e  H > Au contraire. JF complained that the pages that Keith pointed out wereE > deeply buried beneath layers and layers and menus and pages. I have.5 > shown in another post that that is simply not true.q  H You really ought to learn to read before taking up writing.  JF *asked* G whether the pages that Keith pointed out were buried rather than being  A prominently featured (the former being the typical case for VMS).t  I And indeed they were considerably less than prominent.  As you noted, no eF OS gets specific mention on the hp.com home page, but the 'Web event' G was mentioned.  Should anyone think they might be interested and click wG on it, they get to another page with the captivating promise that they lI can "Read transcripts from live Chat with Ann Livermore", something sure II to attract the morning talk-show crowd but perhaps of lesser interest to sF serious purchasers.  Should they nonetheless press on and decide that E disabling their popup blockers and running Flash is not their cup of 2C tea, they finally arrive at a page which, while itself pretty much eG content-free, at least has *pointers* to actual content (though mostly  H just the canned speeches unless you know enough to click 'New Products')  G But indeed, those sufficiently dedicated to follow that 'New Products'  E link to yet another page find there, after a couple of links touting )F Itanic hardware, a link indicating that VMS is newly available on it. E Of course, since AFAICT this is the only actual software news of the  H presentation, one might kind of expect it to be mentioned - though just H to keep VMS advocates from getting cocky VMS is absent from the list of F products people might be interested in checking out on the right-hand F side of the page.  And if you click on that VMS link VMS doesn't even F have a page of its own - just a frame above the menu you came from to G make it easy to go somewhere else should VMS not capture your interest.o  I No, none of the intervening pages touted Windows XP (another point which rF JF raised as a *question* rather than asserted), but of course that's I largely because Windows XP *does not run on the Itanic hardware which is  H the subject of the 'event'*.  However, you seem to have missed the fact < that people may be more apt to click on the "Unlock IT with H virtualization" link just under 'Break Free' because it appears to lead D into the 'Web event' - and that article is all about HP-UX (because F that's apparently HP's only OS that supports that feature, such as it  may be).  E JF's comment about XP came from other experience with HP's Web site. -F Take a look, for example, at 'Desktops & Workstations' on the root HP I page (to pick a category which is not PC-specific - and the first in the OI list of places to go if you want to browse by product rather than market TA segment).  The first page you get is platform-neutral, so select  H 'Workstations' there and voila!  right at the very top of the next page I (where you choose among 'Personal' and 'RISC/Unix, sv7' products) is the e> statement "HP recommends Microsoft Windows XP Professional".  E Of course, since the page is not solely devoted to Windows products,  B other platforms get mentions as well in the page interior:  Linux H (twice), HP-UX (twice if you count the 'UNIX' in 'RISC/UNIX'), PA-RISC, G even Itanic (despite the fact that it's no longer an HP workstation at oD all).  But you've got to click through to the 'RISC/UNIX, sv7' page H before the fact that HP has something DECpaqish to offer gets mentioned H at all, and even then there's no mention of what operating system might I be running on it - though once again Linux, HP-UX, and UNIX (three times r) if you count the page's title) get a nod.o  H And if you should decide that by God you're still going to press on and E see what's on that Alpha workstation page, they make sure to include sG links on it to their other workstation environments to make it easy to i get out again.     JF complained thatD > Ann said that hp is not interested in growing VMS. She did not sayG > that. Sure, hp may still not be interested in growing VMS, but that'se > not what she said.  H Indeed:  she actually didn't say *anything* that addressed the question ? she was asked (whether HP was looking for *new* VMS customers).h  H Now, while technically that doesn't constitute stating that HP is *not* H looking for new VMS customers, it's rather a stretch to suggest that HP G really *is* doing so but that Ann felt it should be kept a secret.  So sB unless you've got credible evidence that HP in fact *is* actively H soliciting new VMS business, I'd say JF has a considerably stronger leg I to stand on than you do.  Perhaps you're just incredibly naive and can't  9 recognize the obvious sub-text in standard bureaucratese.i   ...   2   JF's complaints were invalid. The pages were not > deeply buried.  D That's simply wrong.  The first *mention* of VMS in the 'Web event' B hierarchy is three clicks away from HP's home page, and the first J (minimal - mostly pointers) VMS content takes yet another click to get to.  D And (at least from a brief glance) even that page is not one of the F pages Keith listed, though some of its links may - finally - point to I some of them.  You might note, however, that JF's *specific* request was aC for the paths to the *supplementary* list of pages which Keith had  H gotten from Sue - and God only knows where *they* are which, of course, 4 is precisely why JF asked for navigation directions.  F Your grasp of such details seems to be tenuous at best.  If you don't F appreciate receiving what you seem to consider insults regarding your 2 competence, stop being quite so deserving of them.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 18:37:05 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMSB Message-ID: <1106534225.719096.84310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > AEF wrote: > > Bill Todd wrote: > >s > >>AEF wrote: > > 	 > > [...]c > >sD > >>When Alpha was killed, Compaq made an all-out effort of spin andC > >>outright lies effort to try to justify it to its customer base.u And E > >>much of the customer base seemed fairly uncritically receptive toa > >  > > that > >r > >>effort.M > >>C > >>If the few of us who knew better had not spoken up against bothe > >n
 > > Compaq > >oD > >>and the Itanic abortion, VMS, and even Tru64, sales would likely have > >p > >eC > >>been considerably better over the past 3.5 years than they have  been > >m > > -h > >hF > > So what I gather what your saying is is that if you had not spoken up,aF > > VMS sales would have been better. So you reduced VMS sales. How is that > > a good thing?m >h> > People making informed decisions rather than being misled by	 unethicaltG > vendors is what is a good thing.  There are plenty of people here who-  B > understand the strengths of VMS, but a lot of them seemed rather blindeF > to the faults and outright lies of its owner - and OS strength alone isE > not sufficient to build your future on (with the possible exceptionr ofB > open source platforms where you aren't dependent on a particular > vendor's performance). >tG > The people who were going to stick with VMS no matter what might have   D > preferred that everyone else blindly do the same thing, maximizing theeB > (in my opinion rather faint) possibility that HP would, finally, realizeiE > what a gem they had in the product and shape up.  So they might not  haveF > wanted others alerted to the vendor-related risks (e.g., killing VMSF > development as abruptly as it did Alpha development whenever it feltF > like it, regardless of what firm 'commitments' it might have made in
 > that area).   B And what made you so sure of this risk? VMS hasn't been killed, soD perhaps your warnings were for naught. Additionally, by reducing theD VMS base, aren't you actually INCREASING the odds that hp would pull the plug on VMS?  F Are/were you actually running around, calling up companies, firing off> emails, what have you, warning that VMS is about to disappear?  E > Tough.  It's not the responsibility of others to take on risks theyeG > might choose to avoid if informed of them just to - possibly - reducei  E > the risk to you from the choices you have made.  If you want VMS tot  C If you inform them accurately, fine. But no one has a crystal ball.tG Could it be that you exaggerated the risks? So you're thinking, port toeF Itanium, then kill it. I don't see that. Could it also be that you mayB have erred? What makes you so smart that you can go running around5 telling companies what to do with their IT purchases?   ? > thrive, don't try to spin away the serious concerns about itso vendor'sC > commitment but instead get that vendor to demonstrate some *real* E > long-term commitment by serious marketing plus serious development.g ThetE > port doesn't count:  it was primarily to keep existing customers inn thecB > fold, just as the pie-in-the-sky port of AdvFS and clustering to PH-UX,D > was money spent to keep as many Tru64 customers as possible in the foldG > until such time as HP decided the remainder weren't worth the effort.s  E > Statements like Livermore's are worth exactly zilch in this regard:aC > money talks, bullsh!t walks, as they say - not that VMS even getsT muchF > in the way of the latter, usually being by a considerable margin theC > most invisible of HP's OS offerings whenever HP talks with anyoneD? > outside the existing VMS community.  Of course, the fact thatm	 LivermoreiF > accompanied her vacuous VMS statements with some outright lies about? > Itanic's performance relative to POWER doesn't increase one'se
 confidence  > even in her content-free spin.  A I didn't evaluate her comments. Obviously you missed that from myhB recent posts. I simply said that JF's interpretation of one of herG answers was the worst possible interpretation at best, and simply wrong - at worst. See my other post to JF about that.f   >i > ...l >IE > > Au contraire. JF complained that the pages that Keith pointed outs wereG > > deeply buried beneath layers and layers and menus and pages. I have 7 > > shown in another post that that is simply not true.0 >0= > You really ought to learn to read before taking up writing.a  E Any fool can hurl insults, and most fools do. By resorting to insults7F you imply that you don't have a good case. If your case is so good and. airtight, I'd suggest refraining from insults.   > JF *asked*B > whether the pages that Keith pointed out were buried rather than beingoC > prominently featured (the former being the typical case for VMS).e  E I'll give you 50% on that. Yes, it could be interpreted that way. ButtE Keith's first message said that his links were from the Web Event andeA they were not buried under layers and layers. I guess JF was justc8 asking for proof instead of checking it out for himself.  G > And indeed they were considerably less than prominent.  As you noted,  noG > OS gets specific mention on the hp.com home page, but the 'Web event'   B > was mentioned.  Should anyone think they might be interested and clicktC > on it, they get to another page with the captivating promise thatg theyE > can "Read transcripts from live Chat with Ann Livermore", somethingh sureG > to attract the morning talk-show crowd but perhaps of lesser interestn toG > serious purchasers.  Should they nonetheless press on and decide that     D Rich Marcello's talk has a paragraph that is very flattering of VMS.C And no other OS got that much of a boost in any of the three talks."  F > disabling their popup blockers and running Flash is not their cup ofD > tea, they finally arrive at a page which, while itself pretty muchA > content-free, at least has *pointers* to actual content (though" mostly? > just the canned speeches unless you know enough to click 'New 
 Products')> > But indeed, those sufficiently dedicated to follow that 'New	 Products'vF > link to yet another page find there, after a couple of links toutingG > Itanic hardware, a link indicating that VMS is newly available on it.v    
 www.hp.com
 click Join- click HTML version (this is a duh minor step)i3 Click New Products and you see VMS get top billing. . Click the VMS link and you see VMS on the top.) Click that and you are in VMS-only space.a  F > Of course, since AFAICT this is the only actual software news of theD > presentation, one might kind of expect it to be mentioned - though justF > to keep VMS advocates from getting cocky VMS is absent from the list ofG > products people might be interested in checking out on the right-hand   G > side of the page.  And if you click on that VMS link VMS doesn't even     ? Oh, come on! VMS is prominently placed AHEAD of the other OSes,d' standing on its own! You're nitpicking.   G > have a page of its own - just a frame above the menu you came from toh  ? > make it easy to go somewhere else should VMS not capture your'	 interest.e  > None of the links there have a page of their own. Are you on a different Internet than I am?l  D > No, none of the intervening pages touted Windows XP (another point whichtG > JF raised as a *question* rather than asserted), but of course that'so  G > largely because Windows XP *does not run on the Itanic hardware whichs isD > the subject of the 'event'*.  However, you seem to have missed the fact= > that people may be more apt to click on the "Unlock IT withiD > virtualization" link just under 'Break Free' because it appears to leadE > into the 'Web event' - and that article is all about HP-UX (because G > that's apparently HP's only OS that supports that feature, such as it   
 > may be).  D Well, I don't see any "Break Free" on www.hp.com. That part seems toE vary in time. And I think you're really getting into nitpicking here.aF And poorly-designed Web sites seem to be more the rule on the Internet than the exception.s  F > JF's comment about XP came from other experience with HP's Web site.G > Take a look, for example, at 'Desktops & Workstations' on the root HPo  F > page (to pick a category which is not PC-specific - and the first in theoC > list of places to go if you want to browse by product rather than  marketB > segment).  The first page you get is platform-neutral, so selectD > 'Workstations' there and voila!  right at the very top of the next pageF > (where you choose among 'Personal' and 'RISC/Unix, sv7' products) is the D > statement "HP recommends Microsoft=AE Windows=AE XP Professional".  C Yes, VMS is distressingly absent from many of these type pages. Butt* that has nothing to do with JF's comments.  F > Of course, since the page is not solely devoted to Windows products,C > other platforms get mentions as well in the page interior:  Linux @ > (twice), HP-UX (twice if you count the 'UNIX' in 'RISC/UNIX'), PA-RISC,E > even Itanic (despite the fact that it's no longer an HP workstationn atE > all).  But you've got to click through to the 'RISC/UNIX, sv7' pagea? > before the fact that HP has something DECpaqish to offer getsm	 mentionedhC > at all, and even then there's no mention of what operating systema mightsD > be running on it - though once again Linux, HP-UX, and UNIX (three timess+ > if you count the page's title) get a nod.o >iE > And if you should decide that by God you're still going to press ont andMF > see what's on that Alpha workstation page, they make sure to includeE > links on it to their other workstation environments to make it easyn to > get out again. >i >   JF complained thatF > > Ann said that hp is not interested in growing VMS. She did not sayB > > that. Sure, hp may still not be interested in growing VMS, but that's > > not what she said. >r@ > Indeed:  she actually didn't say *anything* that addressed the questionA > she was asked (whether HP was looking for *new* VMS customers).i >sC > Now, while technically that doesn't constitute stating that HP isi *not*pF > looking for new VMS customers, it's rather a stretch to suggest that HPD > really *is* doing so but that Ann felt it should be kept a secret. SoC > unless you've got credible evidence that HP in fact *is* activelyiE > soliciting new VMS business, I'd say JF has a considerably strongerh leg D > to stand on than you do.  Perhaps you're just incredibly naive and can'to; > recognize the obvious sub-text in standard bureaucratese.s  D Ah, the insults again. Obviously your just trying to cover up a poor case.t   >s > ...  > 4 >   JF's complaints were invalid. The pages were not > > deeply buried. >fE > That's simply wrong.  The first *mention* of VMS in the 'Web event'.C > hierarchy is three clicks away from HP's home page, and the firsteD > (minimal - mostly pointers) VMS content takes yet another click to get to.s  = I'd hardly call that "layers and layers and menus and pages".s   >aE > And (at least from a brief glance) even that page is not one of the.G > pages Keith listed, though some of its links may - finally - point toi  F > some of them.  You might note, however, that JF's *specific* request wasoD > for the paths to the *supplementary* list of pages which Keith hadA > gotten from Sue - and God only knows where *they* are which, of  course,n6 > is precisely why JF asked for navigation directions.  * OK. You have a point here. And no insults!  G > Your grasp of such details seems to be tenuous at best.  If you don'te  G > appreciate receiving what you seem to consider insults regarding youre  4 > competence, stop being quite so deserving of them.  G I, unlike you, don't need to pepper my posts with insults. Any fool can   hurl insults, and most fools do.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:33:11 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>s@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS, Message-ID: <41F47A83.7351EC2A@teksavvy.com>  
 AEF wrote:D > And what made you so sure of this risk? VMS hasn't been killed, so( > perhaps your warnings were for naught.  C At the time Compaq was telling customers was safe, Curly was having 4 meetings to seriously consider retiring the product.  G At the time Compaq had all those white papers and presentations showingtH how dismal IA64 was going to be and how Alpha would retain superiority,.$ Compaq was planning to retire Alpha.  F When a vendor has repeatedly lied to customers, broken promises, it isG only natural that those who have been negatively affected by this would > ensure as many people are aware of these not so ethical moves.  H Right now, HP is saying IA64 is safe, but acting to prepare to jump shipD because it is so obvious that IA64 will never live up to what it hadC been promised to be, and will never live to to the whole premise ofiE dumping low volume chips to adopt high volume industry standard chipsi% that span from desktop to datacentre.n  F With HP, only wintel servers (with linux) and printers are safe.  HP'sD other IT products either not strategic, or based on a platform whose future is uncertain.    D Upon taking over Digital's customers, HP did absolutely nothing gainE their trust and in fact insisted that it was business as usual, aka:eG continue to lie and screw customers like Compaq had done with Alpha ande almost did with VMS.    F In the press releases and interviews, Gorham did mention one importantE number: 600 important customers. These are probably the same as those E who were big enough to warrant a meeting wity Compaq execs on June 25hC 2001 to negotiate whatever Compaq negotiated to prevent too rapid a G defection from VMS after the announcemebnt that Alpha had been murderede
 by Compaq.  G 600 is a far cry from the 411,000 that is also quoted. And if Compaq/HPtG has cordial relations with only 600 customers, and allows the remainingfH 400,000 to try to read between the lines to try to understand what HP is% *really* up to, then that says a lot.u  H Maybe you are part of the 600 or are an HP employee and thus get specialG treatment. But normal small customers don't get that treatment. And allu@ we have to go on is those very few announcements and must try to! interpolate HP's true intentions.i  H Oh,. and you'll note that some recent number did mention unit shipments,H not revenus. Why would this be ? Could it be because that "Retain Trust"D thing will cost a lot of money because HP has to give away all thoseH IA64 systems to those 600 customers ? Is it because the vast majority ofH IA64 uptake so far has been by customers who have sweet offers that make! IA64 very very cheap to acquire ?5  D And with the string messages from both HP and Intel about IA64 beingH retrenched to bigger servers because they can't compete against industryH standard 8086s, how are small customers supposed to feel ? (and how doesB this bode with the other side of HP's face that says that within 2E years, there will be price parity with the 8086 ? Why pull out of theeD smaller markets if there will be price parity in a couple of years ?  E Please understand that small customers have to try to figure out whateH HP's true intentions, and based on the past, there is to reason to trust the owner of VMS.p     Trust is earned. o  G > Keith's first message said that his links were from the Web Event andv0 > they were not buried under layers and layers.   H You really don't undertstand. Digital , Compaq and HP tried to alleviateH concerns about the death of VMS by having short burts of mentioning VMS.H What is needed is a long term constant and consistent exposure of VMS. A. single broken WEB event doesn't do the trick.   C Including VMS in HP's real web site so that customers searching forSE medical solutions will see VMS featured along with the current HP-UX,PH Windows and printer offerings. Same for the telecom industry pages where VMS is absent.  G Put yourself into the shoes of a windows customer seeking a more robustlE solution for his hospital. He looks at HP's web site for the mediacaltG systems page and doesn't see VMS, so he doesn't ask about VMS and won'td get VMS.    G Carly could have issued a strong and clear edict to include VMS as part F of HP's core products and have it features in its advertising, its webE site etc. Instead, VMS remains isolated in its corner of the web site H with very few links to all the material that the fine VMS management are putting in.     F > Rich Marcello's talk has a paragraph that is very flattering of VMS.E > And no other OS got that much of a boost in any of the three talks.E    E What percentage of people saw betyond Carly,s endless loop devoide of!G content ? When it became clear that this wasn't a live event, I suspect F most just went away and didn't bother reverse engineering the flash to0 try go beyond the time-waster of Carly's speech.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:36:35 -0500h( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS= Message-ID: <ztOdnRnkQJHT5mncRVn-rA@metrocastcablevision.com>b  
 AEF wrote:   ...n  ) > And what made you so sure of this risk?/  B A great deal of history with which you appear to be rather poorly  acquainted.i     VMS hasn't been killed, so( > perhaps your warnings were for naught.  I The warnings were, and remain, entirely appropriate.  One of many things nJ you appear to be ignorant of is the difference between risk and certainty.     Additionally, by reducing thenF > VMS base, aren't you actually INCREASING the odds that hp would pull > the plug on VMS?  G You really *do* seem to think that the point here is to do whatever it  D takes to minimize the probability that HP will kill VMS like Compaq H killed Alpha rather than alert people to that very real possibility and " let the chips fall where they may.   > H > Are/were you actually running around, calling up companies, firing off@ > emails, what have you, warning that VMS is about to disappear?  F If you had a clue what you were talking about you'd know exactly what ' I've been doing.  But what else is new?r   ...   & > If you inform them accurately, fine.  E What's this 'if', white man?  If you don't know, try refraining from o comment.      But no one has a crystal ball.I > Could it be that you exaggerated the risks? So you're thinking, port tou* > Itanium, then kill it. I don't see that.   You don't see a great deal.f   ....  C > I didn't evaluate her comments. Obviously you missed that from myt > recent posts.f  D No, you've just read incompetently yet again:  I never said you had ? evaluated her comments, I was simply commenting on them myself.    ...t  G > Any fool can hurl insults, and most fools do. By resorting to insultss, > you imply that you don't have a good case.  I You seem to be ignoring the possibility that you really are something of  4 an idiot.  Not a wise move in this case, but then...   ...n  G > Keith's first message said that his links were from the Web Event andnC > they were not buried under layers and layers. I guess JF was justt: > asking for proof instead of checking it out for himself.  B Since JF's comment referred to Keith's *second* message, you seem  confused yet again.L   ...s   > www.hp.com > click Join/ > click HTML version (this is a duh minor step) 5 > Click New Products and you see VMS get top billing.i0 > Click the VMS link and you see VMS on the top.+ > Click that and you are in VMS-only space.s  $ In other words, exactly what I said.   ...c  E > Yes, VMS is distressingly absent from many of these type pages. Butt, > that has nothing to do with JF's comments.  - It is precisely the *point* of JF's comments.o   ...h  I > I, unlike you, don't need to pepper my posts with insults. Any fool can " > hurl insults, and most fools do. >   F You seem not only to be an idiot, but a boringly repetitive one.  Try G learning what a syllogism is, and then analyze your statement above in I& the light of that new-found knowledge.  A I'll repeat my earlier advice:  if you don't appreciate comments pD regarding your incompetence, the proper course of action is to take E steps to reduce it (or at least shut up and stop parading it) rather  C than complain about being picked on.  Persistently debating from a oC position of ignorance is bad enough; doing so without bothering to w; understand the material you're responding to is even worse.g   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:33:17 -0500a' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> @ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS* Message-ID: <41F496AD.80607@tsoft-inc.com>  
 AEF wrote:   > Bill Todd wrote: >  >>AEF wrote: >> >>>Bill Todd wrote:t >>>l >>>' >>>>AEF wrote: >>>> > [...]r > G >>Your grasp of such details seems to be tenuous at best.  If you don't. >> > G >>appreciate receiving what you seem to consider insults regarding yourr >> > 4 >>competence, stop being quite so deserving of them. >> > G > So maybe I made a mistake. That's a reason for insults? Einstein madeeH > mistakes and admitted such. I even read that he once said he was wrongF > 99% of the time. If Einstein can be wrong 99% of the time, certainly* > you, can be wrong maybe 80% of the time? > G > And even Isaac Newton, one of the greatest geniuses of all time, alsonC > made mistakes. And he had to put up with insults from people likem+ > Hooke. And Hooke was wrong in such cases.w > C > I'm perfectly willing to discuss issues, have any mistakes I made I > pointed out, etc. But if you continue with needless insults, from whichtF > no good will come, then I will simply assume your posts are not even > worth reading. > E > If even you don't think your arguments are valid enough to stand oni6 > their own (without insults), why should anyone else?? > You seem to be angry. Persistent anger will ruin your health.  >  >   J You're feeding Bill.  He thrives on such.  He's also mainly right in this @ discussion.  Quite feeding him, and save some storage on Google.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:39:03 -0600g6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: OpenVMS C CompileroD Message-ID: <craigberry-5DBD05.14390323012005@news.isp.giganews.com>  , In article <41F354D5.7010307@tsoft-inc.com>,)  Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:t   > John Hixson wrote: >  > > Hi guys,M > >   Ive got alot of help here with setting up my box and getting it up and nF > > running. Ive managed to get compaq tcp/ip servers up and running, G > > apache, php, etc. I have the hobbyist license and hobbyist layered SI > > product licenses. What I am trying to find now is a  C compiler. The lM > > only thing I could find is an outdated version of gcc and the link isn't  J > > even up. Can I get the Compaq C Compiler anywhere? I have the license K > > for it, I just cant find it anywhere. Any help would be appreciated. A ,@ > > new OS is just not very comfortable without a C compiler =). > >  > > Thanks,l > > John Hixson. > J > If you've got the hobbyist CD media, then you have BASIC.  Try a decent  > language for a while.  :-)  G If he's on Alpha, I'm not sure BASIC is on the CD.  But both the Alpha nH and VAX hobbyist CD's orderable from Montagar do have the DEC/Compaq/HP = C compiler for OpenVMS.  See the following for ordering a CD:i  + http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:59:45 -0500l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>w' Subject: Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIPO, Message-ID: <41F49CD4.9FDA9F92@teksavvy.com>   k wrote:> >     MYVMS$ set display/create/node="mylinux"/transport=TCPIP >     MYVMS$ mcr decw$puzzle >  > I get: > ) >     X Toolkit Error: Can't Open displayu+ >     %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204s  * Have you tried /node=mylinux (no quotes) ?  G From your linux box, can you do a netstat to ensure that the x terminal>F software is listening to port 6000 ? (remember that it is the VMS hostG initiating the TCPIP connecvtion to the X terminal on the linux box andl not the other way around).  I > Funniest part is the following:  I have a Windoze box with Exceed, have H > started XDM on MYVMS, I can query for XDM login banner log in, and CDE$ > starts as if I was at the console.  F can you set display/create to your windows box and then run decw$clock to the PC ?c    I > Also, sitting at the console, I can telnet to the mylinux, but I cannot.I > send a window back to the OpenVMS.  In otherwords, the following fails:t  H You need to be careful.  Do you start TCPIP stack in your systartup_VMS,H or do you spawn off a subprocess or submit it to run as a batch job ? IfB so, you need to ensure that the BG: device exists before you allowH systartup_VMS to end (which triggers the decw$server software to starts,F the later may be told to handle TCPIP, but if on startup, TCPIP device. doesn't exist, it will ignore the TCPIP stuff.  + I have the following in my sys$startup_vms:i  ( $define/system DECW$INSTALL_TCPIP "TRUE" $!H $say "Waiting for TCPIP to have started before letting DECwindows start" $LOOPCNT = 0 $!	 $!*******o	 $WAITTCP:i	 $!*******k# $     if f$getdvi("_bg0:","exists") 
 $     then$ $         if f$getdvi("_bg0:","mnt") $         thenG $             say "TCPIP sufficiently started, continuing (''loopcnt')"g $             goto ENDWAIT $         endift $     endift $! $     wait 00:00:10i $     loopcnt = loopcnt + 1  $     say "Waiting..."* $     if loopcnt .lt. 18 then goto WAITTCP $!	 $ENDWAIT:V $!- $! Set accounting for SMTP spam trap messagesc $SET ACCOUNTING/ENABLE=MESSAGE etc etc.  C Another way is to do a netstat on the VMS host to ensure that the Xt= server on VMS did get the hint and is listening to port 6000.t  = (note: to get the UNIX style TCPIP commands, you may need to:h  " @sys$manager:tcpip$define_commands   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2005 21:56:24 -06002 From: newton_l@encompasserve.org (Lawrence Newton)% Subject: Re: SMHANDLER documentation.e3 Message-ID: <SepDG9gaT2ih@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-2101052324170001@user-105n83l.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:5 > In article <V0ytx7GJmWY0@eisner.encompasserve.org>,t5 > newton_l@encompasserve.org (Lawrence Newton) wrote:a > O >>The release notes for VMS7.3-2 (paragraph 4.19) give a very short explanationoL >>of SMHANDLER, Server Management Process, and that it starts automatically. >>E >>Can someone point me to more complete documentation for SMHANDLER??e > 5 > That release note is all that's available publicly.e > 0 > Are you looking for some specific information?  @  Nothing specfic, just like to know whats running on my systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:31:33 -0600e- From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com>d" Subject: Re: TCP/IP on OpenVMS 7.36 Message-ID: <6ZZId.824$ky2.536@bignews4.bellsouth.net>   David J Dachtera wrote:e > E > There seems to be a known problem this year with PSC's hobbyist PAKmI > generator rejecting valid checksums. I did receive a valid Multinet PAKeG > separately, however (many thanx to the one who intervened (Hunter?)).  >   D Actually, the problem is at Montagar.  We send the VMS PAK checksumsH to Montagar for verification, but David has had (and apparently is stillE having) database problems that are causing the checksums to rejected.aA I've been generating PAKs after-the-fact when there are problems.e   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/a goathunter@goatley.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:27:11 -0600t2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>- Subject: Re: TCPIP NFS between 2 VMS clusterss+ Message-ID: <41F46B0E.F2449A00@comcast.net>    "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:t >  > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes in article <41F1ADDB.812C4607@comcast.net> dated Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:35:23 -0600:  > >rjlolli@sbcglobal.net wrote:l > >>@ > >> Sorry, yes I need the disk to appear to be mounted locally. > >fH > >Is the network such that you can have non-routable protocols, even ifK > >they need to be bridged transparently? If so, consider MSCP-serving themo > >rather than NFS.i > G > Can you use MSCP to serve to machines outside a cluster?  (Or are youi- > suggesting that he merge his two clusters?)   H Hhmmm... Good point. However, he'd have similar problems with concurrent access via NFS, would he not?h   -- S David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:r" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/e   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:18:20 +0000 (UTC)k3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>n= Subject: Using Rdb temporary tables for 3GL memory allocationr0 Message-ID: <ct0t9q$1fb$1@sparta.btinternet.com>   Hi,   G I came across an idea the other day for scrolling through Rdb temporarybI tables by using the ROWID as an offset to the dynamic memory allocated bytK Rdb. I can't say it's the "right" way to do things but having knocked up ane= example to see if it worked I now offer it here as just that.r  K Word of warning, If you give it a dodgy DBKEY then you could get a bugcheckt; dump and image termination instead of NO_RECORD or NODBKEY.   K Now if DEC/hp COBOL gave us that great (IBM? Standard?) syntax "SET ADDRESSs- OF var TO pointer" then I'd be a lot happier.    Regards Richard Maher.  K PS. Obviously replace the  &s with spaces and the wrapping shouldn't be tooe bad.   $! $&on&warning&then&exit $&set&verify $! $&create&pers_scroll.cob identification&division. program-id.&&&&pers_scroll.  data&division. working-storage&section.L 01&&ss$_abort&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp&&&&value&&&external&ss$ _abort.NL 01&&ss$_normal&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp&&&&value&&&external&ss$ _normal.5 01&&sys_status&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp.a *g* 01&&term_control_area&&&&&&&&&&&pic&x(12).C 01&&term_control_area_size&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp&&&&value&&&12.'* 01&&workspace&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&x(12).E 01&&workspace_size&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp&&&&value&&&2000.t5 01&&fms_term_chan&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp.i5 01&&terminator&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp.k) 01&&dummy&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&x(1).l *e 01&&in_name_varchar.5 &&&&03&&in_name_len&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(4)&&&&&&&&comp. * &&&&03&&in_name&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&x(14).5 01&&row_cnt&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp.n* 01&&out_row_cnt&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(10). 01&&target_dbkey.e) &&&&03&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&x(2).n5 &&&&03&&target_row&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp.t) &&&&03&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&x(2).n5 01&&row_offset&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp.t *t5 01&&cur_line&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp.e5 01&&min_window&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp. 5 01&&max_window&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp.iC 01&&num_lines_in_scroll&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp&&&&value&&&12.o *a* 01&&last_name&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&x(14).= 01&&eof_msg&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&x(33)&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&valuen$ "No&more&records&in&that&direction". *m9 01&rdb$message_vector&&&&&&&&&&&global&&&&&&&&&&external. 5 &&&&03&rdb$lu_num_arguments&&&&&pic&s9(9)&&&&&&&comp.h5 &&&&03&rdb$lu_status&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&s9(9)&&&&&&&comp.sH &&&&03&rdb$alu_arguments&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&occurs&18&times.5 &&&&&&&&05&rdb$lu_arguments&&&&&pic&s9(9)&&&&&&&comp.i5 01&&sqlcode&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&pic&9(9)&&&&&&&&comp.t *i copy&"fms$examples:fdvdef".s *y procedure&division.  kick_off&section.u 00.t &&&&perform&form_setup.    &&&&call&"fdv$get"' &&&&&&&&using&&&by&descriptor&&&in_namel* &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&reference&&&&terminator* &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&descriptor&&&"in_name".  - &&&&perform&scroll_it&until&in_name&=&spaces.a  ; &&&&call&"fdv$dterm"&using&by&descriptor&term_control_area.t  
 &&&&stop&run.I *o form_setup&section.r 00.i; &&&&call&"fdv$fchan"&using&fms_term_chan&giving&sys_status.nK &&&&if&sys_status&not&=&fdv$_suc&call&"lib$stop"&using&by&value&sys_status.-   &&&&call&"fdv$aterm"&21 &&&&&&&&using&&&by&descriptor&&&term_control_area.6 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&reference&&&&term_control_area_size- &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&reference&&&&fms_term_chan8 &&&&&&&&giving&&sys_status..K &&&&if&sys_status&not&=&fdv$_suc&call&"lib$stop"&using&by&value&sys_status.r   &&&&call&"fdv$awksp"& ) &&&&&&&&using&&&by&descriptor&&&workspacea. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&reference&&&&workspace_size &&&&&&&&giving&&sys_status.oK &&&&if&sys_status&not&=&fdv$_suc&call&"lib$stop"&using&by&value&sys_status.t &&&&&&&&G &&&&call&"fdv$cdisp"&using&by&descriptor&"pers_form"&giving&sys_status.sK &&&&if&sys_status&not&=&fdv$_suc&call&"lib$stop"&using&by&value&sys_status.> *  scroll_it&section. 00.  &&&&call&"str$trim" 0 &&&&&&&&using&&&by&descriptor&&&in_name,&in_name, &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&reference&&&&in_name_len.  & &&&&call&"scroll_name_load_tmp_table"& &&&&&&&&using&&&sqlcode,&   &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&in_name_varchar, &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&row_cnt, &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&target_dbkey.d% &&&&if&rdb$lu_status&not&=&ss$_normali2 &&&&&&&&call&"sys$putmsg"&using&rdb$message_vector1 &&&&&&&&call&"lib$stop"&using&by&value&ss$_abort.     &&&&move&row_cnt&to&out_row_cnt.C &&&&call&"fdv$put"&using&by&descriptor&out_row_cnt,&"out_row_cnt"&.    &&&&if&row_cnt&=&zerosL &&&&&&&&call&"fdv$putl"&using&by&descriptor&"No&records&found&matching&your&
 selection" &&&&&&&&call&"fdv$sigop" &&&&&&&&go&to&fini.   1 &&&&subtract&1&from&target_row&giving&row_offset.n   &&&&perform&prime_window.   K &&&&perform&with&test&after&until&terminator&=&fdv$k_ft_ntr&or&fdv$k_kp_perm &&&&&&&&call&"fdv$get"& - &&&&&&&&&&&&using&&&&&&&by&descriptor&&&dummya2 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&reference&&&&terminator/ &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&descriptor&&&"dummy"z  " &&&&&&&&evaluate&&&&&&&&terminator$ &&&&&&&&&&&&when&&&&&&&&fdv$k_ft_sbk6 &&&&&&&&&&&&when&&&&&&&&fdv$k_ft_spr&&&&perform&scrbak$ &&&&&&&&&&&&when&&&&&&&&fdv$k_ft_sfw6 &&&&&&&&&&&&when&&&&&&&&fdv$k_ft_snx&&&&perform&scrfwd &&&&&&&&end-evaluate &&&&end-perform.   &&&&go&to&fini.a *m
 prime_window.a *)8 &&&&perform&with&test&after&varying&cur_line&from&1&by&1L &&&&&&&&until&cur_line&not&less&num_lines_in_scroll&or&cur_line&not&less&row _cnt &&&&&&&&if&cur_line&not&=&1l &&&&&&&&&&&&call&"fdv$pft"& 4 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&using&&&by&reference&&&&fdv$k_ft_sfw2 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&descriptor&&&"scr_name" &&&&&&&&end-if &&&&&&&&perform&get_rowa &&&&&&&&call&"fdv$putsc"&g2 &&&&&&&&&&&&using&&&&&&&by&descriptor&&&"scr_name"1 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&descriptor&&&last_namef &&&&end-perform.   &&&&move&1&to&min_window.k  &&&&move&cur_line&to&max_window. *e scrbak.  &&&&if&cur_line&=&1u3 &&&&&&&&call&"fdv$putl"&using&by&descriptor&eof_msga &&&&else&&&&&&&&$ &&&&&&&&if&cur_line&not&=&min_window$ &&&&&&&&&&&&subtract&1&from&cur_line &&&&&&&&&&&&call&"fdv$pft"&.5 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&using&&&by&reference&&&&fdv$k_ft_sbk&y2 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&descriptor&&&"scr_name" &&&&&&&&else&&&&< &&&&&&&&&&&&subtract&1&from&min_window,&max_window,&cur_line &&&&&&&&&&&&perform&get_row  &&&&&&&&&&&&call&"fdv$pft"&b5 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&using&&&by&reference&&&&fdv$k_ft_sbk& > &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&descriptor&&&"scr_name",&last_name. *t scrfwd.  &&&&if&cur_line&=&row_cnta3 &&&&&&&&call&"fdv$putl"&using&by&descriptor&eof_msgo &&&&else&&&&&&&&$ &&&&&&&&if&cur_line&not&=&max_window &&&&&&&&&&&&add&1&to&cur_linen &&&&&&&&&&&&call&"fdv$pft"&m5 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&using&&&by&reference&&&&fdv$k_ft_sfw&e2 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&descriptor&&&"scr_name" &&&&&&&&else&&&&5 &&&&&&&&&&&&add&1&to&min_window,&max_window,&cur_lineo &&&&&&&&&&&&perform&get_row  &&&&&&&&&&&&call&"fdv$pft"&g5 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&using&&&by&reference&&&&fdv$k_ft_sfw&y> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&descriptor&&&"scr_name",&last_name. *h get_row./ &&&&add&cur_line,&row_offset&giving&target_row.m  ! &&&&call&"scroll_name_get_target"i &&&&&&&&using&&&sqlcode, &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&target_dbkey,o &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&last_name.% &&&&if&rdb$lu_status&not&=&ss$_normale2 &&&&&&&&call&"sys$putmsg"&using&rdb$message_vector1 &&&&&&&&call&"lib$stop"&using&by&value&ss$_abort.b *u fini.  &&&&perform&reset_data.e   &&&&call&"fdv$get"' &&&&&&&&using&&&by&descriptor&&&in_name * &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&reference&&&&terminator* &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&by&descriptor&&&"in_name". *o reset_data&section.  00.f/ &&&&call&"scroll_name_set_trans"&using&sqlcode.e% &&&&if&rdb$lu_status&not&=&ss$_normals2 &&&&&&&&call&"sys$putmsg"&using&rdb$message_vector1 &&&&&&&&call&"lib$stop"&using&by&value&ss$_abort.p  . &&&&call&"scroll_name_truncate"&using&sqlcode.% &&&&if&rdb$lu_status&not&=&ss$_normal 2 &&&&&&&&call&"sys$putmsg"&using&rdb$message_vector1 &&&&&&&&call&"lib$stop"&using&by&value&ss$_abort.y  , &&&&call&"scroll_name_commit"&using&sqlcode.% &&&&if&rdb$lu_status&not&=&ss$_normalg2 &&&&&&&&call&"sys$putmsg"&using&rdb$message_vector1 &&&&&&&&call&"lib$stop"&using&by&value&ss$_abort.n   &&&&call&"fdv$putda".d *h end&program&pers_scroll. $! $&cobol/list&pers_scroll $! $&create&pers_form.flg &b0 !&&&&&&&&&&FMS&Form&Description&Application&Aid&" !&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&Version&V2.5 &  FORM&NAME='PERS_FORM'o &&&&AREA_TO_CLEAR=1:23 &&&&WIDTH=80 &&&&BACKGROUND=CURRENT &&&&CHARACTER_SET=UK &&&&HIGHLIGHT=BOLD:REVERSE &&&&DBLSIZ=1 &&&&;   # SCROLL&BEGIN_WITH=10&&END_WITH=21&;    TEXT&(10,31)&'x' &&&&CHARACTER_SET=RULE &&&&;h TEXT&(10,50)&'x' &&&&CHARACTER_SET=RULE &&&&; ( TEXT&(1,7)&'Temporary&Table&Scroll&Demo' &&&&;e TEXT&(5,23)&'Last&Name:' &&&&; " TEXT&(7,31)&'lqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqk' &&&&CHARACTER_SET=RULE &&&&;  TEXT&(8,31)&'x'  &&&&CHARACTER_SET=RULE &&&&;r TEXT&(8,32)&'&Rows:&'  &&&&REVERSE& &&&&;g TEXT&(8,49)&'&'b &&&&REVERSE& &&&&;i TEXT&(8,50)&'x'e &&&&CHARACTER_SET=RULE &&&&;n" TEXT&(9,31)&'tqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqu' &&&&CHARACTER_SET=RULE &&&&;a# TEXT&(22,31)&'mqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqj'  &&&&CHARACTER_SET=RULE &&&&;m   ATTRIBUTE_DEFAULTS&FIELD &&&&CLEAR_CHARACTER='&'l4 &&&&NOAUTOTAB&BLANK_FILL&NOBLINKING&NOBOLD&NOREVERSE3 &&&&NOUNDERLINE&NODISPLAY_ONLY&ECHO&NOFIXED_DECIMAL ; &&&&LEFT_JUSTIFIED&NOSUPERVISOR_ONLY&NOSUPPRESS&NOUPPERCASEe &&&&;a   FIELD&NAME='IN_NAME'&&(5,34) &&&&PICTURE=14'X'p: &&&&HELP='Enter&the&name&to&search&for,&or&spaces&to&exit' &&&&UPPERCASE& &&&&;c  FIELD&NAME='OUT_ROW_CNT'&&(8,39) &&&&PICTURE=10'9'iL &&&&RIGHT_JUSTIFIED&ZERO_FILL&SUPPRESS&DISPLAY_ONLY&CLEAR_CHARACTER='0'&REVE RSE& &&&&;n FIELD&NAME='SCR_NAME'&&(10,34) &&&&PICTURE=14'X'  &&&&DISPLAY_ONLY&  &&&&;l FIELD&NAME='DUMMY'&&(10,51)u &&&&PICTURE='X'l &&&&NOECHO&c &&&&;y   ORDER&BEGIN_WITH&=&1 &&&&NAME='IN_NAME'&i &&&&NAME='OUT_ROW_CNT'&  &&&&NAME='SCR_NAME'& &&&&NAME='DUMMY'&s &&&&;    &f END_OF_FORM&NAME='PERS_FORM'&; $! $&fms/translate&pers_formt $&fms/object&&&&pers_formh $! $&create&pers_scroll.sql   attach&'file&mf_personnel';    drop&table&tmp_name&if&exists;  ' create&global&temporary&table&tmp_name&p (last_name&last_name_dom)& on&commit&preserve&rows;   commit;    exit;h $!
 $&sql:==$sql$  $&sql&@pers_scroll $! $&create&pers_scroll_sql.sqlmod! module&&&&pers_scroll_sqlA language&&cobol  authorization&pers parameter&colons  1 declare&external&pers&alias&filename&mf_personnel   $ procedure&scroll_name_load_tmp_table &&&&&&&&sqlcode,, &&&&&&&&:in_name&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&varchar(14),( &&&&&&&&:row_cnt&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&integer,' &&&&&&&&:first_dbkey&&&&&&&&&&&&char(8)n	 &&&&&&&&;t  
 &&&&&&&&begino  F &&&&&&&&set&transaction&read&only&reserving&employees&for&shared&read;   &&&&&&&&insert&into&tmp_name&r &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&(t  &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&select&&distinct! &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&last_nameh &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&from! &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&employees' &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&whereo8 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&last_name&starting&with&:in_name &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&) 	 &&&&&&&&;   - &&&&&&&&get&diagnostics&:row_cnt&=&row_count;u   &&&&&&&&if&:row_cnt&<>&0 &&&&&&&&then &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&select &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&dbkey  &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&into$ &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&:first_dbkey &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&from  &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&tmp_name &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&limit&to&p &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&1&row; &&&&&&&&end&if;a   &&&&&&&&commit;t   &&&&&&&&end;   procedure&scroll_name_set_transt &&&&&&&&sqlcodee	 &&&&&&&&;e  " &&&&&&&&set&transaction&read&only;   procedure&scroll_name_truncate &&&&&&&&sqlcodes	 &&&&&&&&;     &&&&&&&&truncate&table&tmp_name;   procedure&scroll_name_commit &&&&&&&&sqlcode;   &&&&&&&&commit;i    procedure&scroll_name_get_target &&&&&&&&sqlcode,( &&&&&&&&:target_dbkey&&&&&&&&&&&char(8),- &&&&&&&&:last_name&&&&&&&&&&&&&&last_name_domf	 &&&&&&&&;o  
 &&&&&&&&begin-  " &&&&&&&&set&transaction&read&only;   &&&&&&&&select &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&last_name  &&&&&&&&into &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&:last_name &&&&&&&&from &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&tmp_name
 &&&&&&&&wherem& &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&dbkey&=&:target_dbkey;   &&&&&&&&commit;.   &&&&&&&&end;   $! $&sqlmod:==$sql$moda? $&sqlmod/notransaction_default/rollback_on_exit&pers_scroll_sqlm $!9 $&link&pers_scroll,pers_form,pers_scroll_sql,sql$user/libW $! $&exit   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.047 ************************