0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 26 Jan 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 51      Contents:D Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or dataD Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or dataP Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data inconsistenP Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data inconsistenP Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data inconsisten; *IMPORTANT* Message for Google Group, Usenet and AOL users! ? Re: *IMPORTANT* Message for Google Group, Usenet and AOL users! % Re: ANAL/MEDIA/EXER on a modern disk? % Re: ANAL/MEDIA/EXER on a modern disk? 3 Re: anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle? & compaq ds20 & ds10 for sale, east USA.0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: disk drive spin direction 8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA Re: Fault-tolerant VMS Re: Fault-tolerant VMS HAVE YOU HEARD THE GOOD NEWS! + LAT application port notification of events * Need Raid License for HSZ20 Raid Array 3107 Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS ! Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Docs on web page?  Re: PDFs for HP C docs Re: PDFs for HP C docs Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIP Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIP Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIPP Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is importa Re: RFA string format  Re: RFA string format  Re: RFA string format  Re: RFA string format  Re: RFA string format   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2005 12:58:31 -06004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)M Subject: Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data 3 Message-ID: <SYoDXnGPU4x4@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <5-Cdnfchyb9RemjcRVn-vg@inreach.com>, John Hixson <john@divinix.org> writes:  > Hello VMS users,J >    I am getting this error when attempting to install alot of software. 7 > I get this error on OpenVMS 7.3 on a alpha pws 600au:  > C > %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data   > inconsistency  > E > This error shows up when I attempt to install oracle, fortran, and  K > compaq's C compiler (cc065) using @sys$update:vmsinstal . Is there a way  D > I can fix this? Can I modify a script? This is starting to really  > irritate me =).   B If you are trying install more than one product at a time, then myB first suggestion would be to install only one at a time.  This wayB you can see if the problem is related to one products installation- procedure, or if it is a problem elsewhere.     E You can turn verify on for vmsinstal by putting ",D," in as P4 on the  command line, like so...  1 $ @sys$update:vmsinstal CC065 DISK:[KIT] "" ",D,"   C The commas have to be on either side of the uppercase D.  This will C spit out a lot of hard to read DCL, but it will also show where the  error is happening.     E A SET HOST 0/LOG of the install (without the verify, initially) would . help narrow down where this error is occuring.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:42:18 +0000 (UTC) - From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) M Subject: Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data . Message-ID: <ct67eq$1ns$2@newslocal.mitre.org>  | John Hixson <john@divinix.org> writes in article <5-Cdnfchyb9RemjcRVn-vg@inreach.com> dated Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:31:39 -0800:B >%DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data  >inconsistency > D >This error shows up when I attempt to install oracle, fortran, and J >compaq's C compiler (cc065) using @sys$update:vmsinstal . Is there a way C >I can fix this? Can I modify a script? This is starting to really   >irritate me =).  A It's possible you have stepped on a command with a symbol.  Do a  H "show sym/glo/all" and see if the output contains any values which start" with "IF", "THE", "EL", or "ENDI".  K If so, locate the offending assignment in your login.com or sylogin.com and 
 remove it.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2005 20:42:51 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> Y Subject: Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data inconsisten B Message-ID: <1106714571.000776.42460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   John,   E Did you get your product savesets VIA FTP or off a CD?  If it was FTP D then you probably have some corrupted savesets causing the RMS-W-RTBF errors.  First of all make sure you FTP'd the files in BINARY mode. IfB you're not sure, then re-do the transfers.  Then cut and paste the. following DCL script to your machine (maybe toE "sys$manager:RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM") and run it on each @ saveset file (i.e.  @sys$manager:RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTESG dka0:[john.cc065.kit]cc065.a; ).  This should fix any problems with the E file's RMS attributes which may have gotten lost in the FTP.  You can @ find out more information about the script below from this link:6 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/freeware/backup.html   HTH, John H. Reinhardt     & $! RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM $!1 $! P1  is the specification of the BACKUP saveset  $!5 $! This procedure resets the record format and record 4 $! length attributes of a BACKUP saveset -- savesets0 $! can get "broken" during certain sorts of file6 $! transfers -- such as FTP.  This procedure reads the4 $! (undocumented) saveset record attributes directly $! out of the target file. $!4 $! First render the saveset readable, and implicitly $! check that the file exists. $! $ Set File -8 /Attributes=(RFM:FIX,MRS:512,LRL=512,ORG=SEQ,RAT=NONE) - 'p1' $ ( $ Open/Error=whoops/Read BckSaveset 'p1'0 $ Read/Error=whoops/End=whoops BckSaveset Record $ Close/Nolog BckSaveset $ / $! Find the blocksize from within the record...  $  $ BlockSize = 0  $ BBH_L_BLOCKSIZE = %x28*81 $ BlockSize = F$CVUI(BBH_L_BLOCKSIZE, 32, Record) 2 $ If BlockSize .lt. 2048 .or. BlockSize .gt. 65535 $ Then, $   Write sys$output "Unexpected block size" $   Goto whoops  $ Else4 $   Set File /Attributes=(RFM:FIX,LRL='BlockSize', - MRS='BlockSize',RAT=none) -  'p1' $ endif  $ exit $WHOOPS: $ Write sys$output "Error" $ exit   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:30:45 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data inconsisten , Message-ID: <41F6AC75.10577053@teksavvy.com>   Charlie Hammond wrote:K > An additional question -- have you by chance re-defined IF, THEN, ELSE or  > ENDIF?  C One of the first things VMSINSTAL does is to DELETE/SYMBOL/GLOBAL *   F So no matter how the user has messed up symbols, VMSINSTAL is supposed to work.  E What is the logical/symbol that needs to be defined to enable the SET  VERIFY ? in a VMSINSTAL ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:16:38 -0800 $ From: John Hixson <john@divinix.org>Y Subject: Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data inconsisten 0 Message-ID: <xrOdnZPVDNIVYGvcRVn-uw@inreach.com>   OK Guys,
    Here goes:   +    I modified LOGIN.COM with the following:    $ VI*M :== VIM:VIM.EXE $ VI :== VIM:VIM.EXE: $ DEFINE PERL_ROOT WEED$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.PERL5_006_01]C $ DEFINE PERLSHR WEED$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.PERL5_006_01]PERLSHR.EXE  $ PERL :== PERL_ROOT:PERL.EXE B $ PERLDOC :== PERL_ROOT:PERL.EXE PERL_ROOT:[LIB.POD]PERLDOC.COM -t  I    Here are the errors I get when I try to install the Compaq C Compiler   (cc065):  A %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data  
 inconsistency A %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data  
 inconsistency = %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of CC V6.5 has failed.   - I try installing using the following command:   ; @sys$update:vmsinstal cc065 dka0:[john.cc065.kit] options n   A Under dka0:[john.cc065.kit] are the files cc065.a;1 and cc065.b;1   >   Here are the errors I get when I try and install Oracle RDB:  K %VMSINSTAL-I-RELMOVED, Product's release notes have been moved to SYS$HELP. 7 %RMS-W-RTB, 257 byte record too large for user's buffer A %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data  
 inconsistency 9 %RMS-W-RTB, 28271 byte record too large for user's buffer I %DCL-W-USGOTO, target of GOTO not found - check spelling and presence of   label    \ABORT_ERROR\ F %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of RDBV71400AM V7.1 has failed.    : @sys$update:vmsinstal rdbv71400am071 dka0:[john] options n  2 Under dka0:[john] are the files rdbv71400am071.a-e  4 I am using Compaq OpenVMS 7.3 on an Alpha PWS 600au.   I hope this helps more. I I also get very similar errors when trying to install fortran, PL/I, and  ( even the older version cc057 C Compiler.   Thanks,  John Hixson                John Hixson wrote: > Hello VMS users,K >   I am getting this error when attempting to install alot of software. I  5 > get this error on OpenVMS 7.3 on a alpha pws 600au:  > C > %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data   > inconsistency  > E > This error shows up when I attempt to install oracle, fortran, and  K > compaq's C compiler (cc065) using @sys$update:vmsinstal . Is there a way  D > I can fix this? Can I modify a script? This is starting to really  > irritate me =).  > 	 > Thanks, 
 > John Hixson    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2005 14:32:39 -0800! From: google_groups_net@yahoo.com D Subject: *IMPORTANT* Message for Google Group, Usenet and AOL users!C Message-ID: <1106692358.988295.108230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   
 Good News!    G Do you know how simple it is to go to Heaven after this life has ended?     G Some people believe that belonging to a local church, temple, mosque or " synagogue will get them to Heaven.    G Others believe that water baptism, obeying the ten commandments or just , being a good person will get them to Heaven.    G There are many other beliefs as well, but the good news about God's way % to Heaven is found in the Holy Bible.     D The good news is that God came from Heaven to earth in the person ofD Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago and died for our sins(misdeeds). HeF was born in the land of Israel supernaturally to a virgin Jewish womanC named Mary. He lived a sinless life for thirty-three years and then A sacrificed His sinless blood and died on a cross to pay the death G penalty for our sins. After Jesus was placed in a tomb He rose from the G dead three days later as He said He would. The Holy Bible also tells us E that Jesus Christ ascended into Heaven and that all who accept Him as G their Lord and Saviour will live forever with Him in Heaven where there , is no more death, sorrow, sickness and pain.    F The Bible says, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is: eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)    E This verse in the Bible says, "For ALL HAVE SINNED, and come short of   the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)    C This verse says, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: > While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)    G In this passage the Bible clearly explains how simple it is to be saved F and on your way to Heaven, "For if you confess with your mouth, "JesusF is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,! you WILL BE SAVED." (Romans 10:9)     E You can be saved right now and on your way to Heaven if you will open 2 your heart to Jesus and pray the following prayer:  B Dear Jesus Christ, I want to be saved so that I can have a home in7 Heaven when I die. I agree with You that I am a sinner. F I believe You love me and want to save me. I believe that You bled andD died on the cross to pay the penalty for my sins. I believe that YouE rose from the dead. Please forgive my sins and come into my heart and D be my Lord and Saviour. Thank You Lord Jesus Christ for forgiving me0 and saving me through Your merciful grace. Amen.    F You are now a Christian if you said the prayer and allowed God to save" you. Welcome to the family of God.    F Salvation is not a reward but a gift. The Bible says it this way, "ForC it is by GRACE you have been SAVED, through FAITH and this not from 3 yourselves, it is the GIFT of God." (Ephesians 2:8)     A Nothing in the world is more important than your eternal destiny.     D The Bible says, "In Him(Jesus) we have redemption through His blood,+ the forgiveness of sins..." (Ephesians 1:7)     A If you have not yet made a decision to be saved, please do so now D before it is too late. The reason why it is so important to be savedE now is because you do not know exactly when you will die. You may die E prematurely in a traffic accident, terrorist attack or some other way * before you get another chance to be saved.    F The Bible tells us that we will spend eternity in Heaven or a place ofG eternal torment called Hell. It would be terrible to die and go to Hell D when all you have to do is accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour.    F Some people that have already made Jesus Christ their Lord and SaviourE worry about losing their salvation. The Bible teaches Christians that 7 we can never lose our salvation no matter what happens.     E The Bible says it this way, "My dear children, I write this to you so F that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks> to the Father in our defense Jesus Christ, the Righteous One."    C Yes my friend, Jesus Christ is able to save you and keep you saved.     , Please tell your family and friends, thanks!     Have a great day!  Internet Evangelist R.L. Grossi           3 1. http://www.biblegateway.com << Free Online Bible ? 2. http://www.free-hoster.com/goodnews << Passion of the Christ < 3. http://www.carm.org/cults/cultlist.htm << Beware Of Cults4 4. http://www.equip.org/free/DH198.htm << About HellD 5. http://www.powertochange.com/questions/qna2.html << Is Jesus God?   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jan 2005 23:23:47 GMT+ From: "Doc." <doc.cypher@openvms-rocks.com> H Subject: Re: *IMPORTANT* Message for Google Group, Usenet and AOL users!6 Message-ID: <Xns95EA42F828A5dcovmsrox@212.100.160.123>  7 %NEWS-I-NEWMSG,  wrote in news:1106692358.988295.108230  @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com    > Good News! >  > I > Do you know how simple it is to go to Heaven after this life has ended?   K You need to have landed on the Community Chest square and got the "Get out   of Hell free card"?      Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2005 11:11:51 -0800 From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com. Subject: Re: ANAL/MEDIA/EXER on a modern disk?C Message-ID: <1106678393.244971.177460@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   ? Under VMS, BACKUP/VERIFY between two full volumes with a mix of ? smallish and largish does plenty of seeks and long read/writes.   D RSX also had IOX, remember, which was a really good end-to-end test. Tim.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:51:25 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: ANAL/MEDIA/EXER on a modern disk?, Message-ID: <41F6B14C.73906335@teksavvy.com>   Bob Kaplow wrote: N > We used to be able to test and exercise new disks (or destroy sensitive dataI > from old disks) with the ANALYZE/MEDIA/EXERCISE command, or way back in M > time, the BAD utility under RSX. Alas with modern "smart" devices, these no  > longer function.    & Why is ana/media not working anymore ?  E Also,aren't there hooks into this (or is it DELETE or INIT) where you E can have your own user-written system service provide random patterns C used to write over all data while erasing the disk ? (although this H would be at the formatted disk level, not the disk block level, right ?)   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2005 13:17:10 -0800 From: soverby@cxo.com < Subject: Re: anybody know the details on the COMAIR debacle?B Message-ID: <1106687830.304942.94300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  @ Looking for information from IT employees/former IT employees at. Comair. Please contact me at: soverby@cxo.com.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:22:21 -0500 ) From: Tomato Paste <tomatopa@comcast.net> / Subject: compaq ds20 & ds10 for sale, east USA. 0 Message-ID: <8Jidne1F5--_NmvcRVn-tQ@comcast.com>  + I'll try here before I send these to Ebay -   8 DS10 & DS20 for sale, location is near DC/Baltimore USA.+ I might deliver within a few hundred miles.   = Price is "going rate", whatever that is lately, or best offer  within the next few weeks.  	 Summary : H 1 ds10, single 466 cpu, 1 gig ram, 9 gig HD, boots Suse linux, model is  3X-PB01A-AA.C 1 ds20, dual 500 cpus, 4 gig ram, 9 gig HD to boot Suse, 8 smaller   drives, model is DA-55NJA-DA.     B Part numbers, more info & many good pics by email if you want 'em.   -P   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:37:51 -0700 . From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc..com>9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia / Message-ID: <kexJd.22$8y3.8886@news.uswest.net>   H They listed OS/2, but not Windows 2003.  So much for only listing "live"A OSs.  I suspect it's more a case of what people have contributed.    Mike.     . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:Do-dnQQGnp3-FGvcRVn-qw@igs.net... > Peter Sjoberg wrote: > > I'm missing one great OS on @ > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_operating_systems > K > They don't list 'dead' operating systems  .... GCOS, Multics, OS390, MVS,  > VMS, Tru64, HP-UX  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 02:06:59 +0100 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia B Message-ID: <41f6ed35$0$17617$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   Peter Sjoberg wrote:Z > I'm missing one great OS on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_operating_systems" > is it anyone who like to add it? >  > Q > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- U > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups G > ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---     G Regardless of who makes the update to Wiki, I would suggest we discuss  C in COV what the correct entries to the Tables should be. To get us  > started, I've taken a first crack at filling out the tables...  E (please first examine the current Wiki page to better understand the  A tables; Hyperlinks to other existing Wiki entries are underlined)      *OS Name*			_OpenVMS_   	 *General*   ,    Creator			_Digital Equipment Corporation_    /    First public release date 	_February_ _1978_         Predecessor			_RSX-11M_    (    Stable version		8.2 (current release)  0    Cost (US Dollars)		Free for noncommercial use    /    Preferred License		_Hobbyist_, _Proprietary_     4    Target Audience		Server,Enthusiast,Secure Domain,( 				_WS_,_TS_,_RT_,_PC_,_DCS_,MC,DT,_TP_% 				_Batch_,Fully-Shared _Clustering_  					    *Technical*   !    Kernel type			privilege-Ring** ! 				modular-subsystem _RT_ Kernel     "    Default file system		_Files-11_        Other major 			_ISO 9660_    file systems supported     /    Arch. support(first, 		_VAX_,_Alpha_,_IA64_, )    primary platform)		CHARON-VAX Emulator     &    Default online		http://www1.sqp.com    OS update tool     *    Default package mgmnt./	PCSI, VMSINSTAL    SW install. tool     /    Main API and lang. 		_CLE_, language neutral     for GUI applications			    -    Main API and lang. 		_VT_,SMG,_DCL_,_CLE_, &    for text/CLI apps		language neutral    
 *Features*  9    Graphics software and 	Executive, Supervisor, or User- /    capabilites			mode program:_X Window System_   0    Default Filesystem Browser	_CDE_ file manager    $    Default desktop environment	_CDE_    *    Default window manager	DECW$MWM _Motif_        Default GUI styling		_CDE_       5 ** See "Operating Systems: Design and Implementation" / by Andrew S. Tanenbaum, Section 1.5.2, Page 39. H http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/tanenbaum/chapter0/deluxe.html    3 *Hyperlinks and abbreviations used in Tables above*    OpenVMS	$ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVMS   Digital Equipment Corporation : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Equipment_Corporation   February% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February    1978! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978    RSX-11M # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSX-11    Hobbyist1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vms#OpenVMS_Hobbyist    Proprietary 1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software    WS( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workstation   TS) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-sharing    RT% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realtime    PC, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_control   DCS 7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Control_System    MC = Mission-Critical    DT = Disaster Tolerant   Files-11% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Files-11    TP3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaction_processing    Batch - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batch_processing   
 Clustering+ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vms#Clustering    ISO 9660% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9660    VAX   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX   Alpha & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Alpha   IA64! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IA64    CLE < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vms#Common_Language_Environment   VT" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100   SMG$ = Screen Management RTL   DCL 5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIGITAL_Command_Language    X Window System , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System   Motif 7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motif_%28widget_toolkit%29    CDE   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDE     Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:19:18 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia , Message-ID: <41F71A2C.17C3202B@teksavvy.com>   Keith Cayemberg wrote:+ > *OS Name*                       _OpenVMS_   = I woudl put in  "VMS" since this is what it was created as.     ? >    Arch. support(first,                 _VAX_,_Alpha_,_IA64_, 5 >    primary platform)            CHARON-VAX Emulator   G Since VMS does not run on an 8086, is the CHARON product (and you might F also include SIMH) really supposed to be there ? It emulated a VAX and" VMS thinks it is running on a VAX.  E Does the Windows entry include all the chips for which there are 8086 F emulators ? (including VAX which had the insignia solutions emulator).  A >    Graphics software and        Executive, Supervisor, or User- @ >    capabilites                  mode program:_X Window System_  & Shouldn't motif 1.2 be added to this ?  ' >    Default desktop environment  _CDE_   . Can you add "or Decwindows Seesion manager" ?   2 >    Default window manager       DECW$MWM _Motif_    E Motif isn't a window manager. MWM is a window manager that happens to  come with Motif.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:04:16 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question+ Message-ID: <ct657g$9jf$1@news01.intel.com>    John E. Malmberg wrote:  > Ken Fairfield wrote: >  >>  E >> I don't know specifically about the Outlook ES, but when I queried D >> Avocent's technical support that Fall, the answer I got back was, >>< >>     "While our switches do support mode 3 keyboard, it is; >>      currently only in the 101/102 keyboard layout.  The 0 >>      additional keys would not pass through." >>C >> I got similar negative responses from Adder, Linksys and Belkin. B >> I didn't expect anything different from Belkin, but Adder had a: >> nice little switch I would've liked to buy...too bad... >  > J > A google search shows that there are several mode 3 keyboards available * > for x86 PC devices from several vendors.  < Due respect, John, you're missing the point.  The problem is7 not mode 3, and it is not x86 PCs.  It is KVM switches.   > It is true that Windows of various generations works fine with@ LK4xx keyboards, and I, too, use one for my daily work connectedB to an IBM T41 Laptop running Windows XP Professional (not proud of it, just the facts m'am :-).  9 The problem is the KVM switch does not pass the key codes B corresponding to the "extra" keys on the LK4xx.  It passes all theB keys codes found on a "standard" 101/102 key keyboard.  It doesn'tD pass F17-F20, for example, or KP-comma, or the DO key, etc.  And I'm@ not even talking about the mapping of the 102 keys they do pass.  B >> The other piece of information I've gleaned from my research isA >> that essentially all of the switches put the physical keyboard E >> into mode 2, then translate to/from mode 3 for the VMS connection.  >  > G > A google search which I do not have handy indicates that x86 PCs not  E > only regularly use mode 3 for keyboards, support for the LK series  I > appears to be present in many versions of Microsoft Windows.  The only  G > version known not to support the LK4xx keyboards is the first retail  6 > version of Microsoft NT 4.0.  The betas had support. > F > Unfortunately I could not find a list of what versions of Microsoft ) > Windows will support a NT 4.0 keyboard.  > H > It also appears from google that Linux will support an LKxxx keyboard.  ? Ditto: problem not with x86PC nor Windows, but with KVM switch.   G >> Apparently Raritan does the translation with a per-system-connection D >> adapter (Alan, correct me if I'm wrong; I don't have any personal >> experience with Raritan). >  > J > Google is indicating that such translation is not needed as the x86 PCs J > operating systems already know about and use mode 3, but that conflicts 9 > with what others who have studied this more than I did.   3 Ditto: problem not with x86 PC but with KVM switch.   
 [BIG SNIP]  I > So far in my limited tests, Windows 98/2000 are quite happy with an LK  2 > keyboard connected through the cheap Belkin KVM.  @ Ditto: problem not with x86 PC nor Windows.  If you use an LK4xx@ through the Belkin to Windows, you won't see a problem.  Indeed,= you may not see the problem through the Belkin to VMS if your A access to VMS is through the PC (mode 2).  I don't know that this 5 is true, I'm only allowing that I haven't tried it...   D YOU WILL SEE THE PROBLEM if you connect the LK4xx to the KVM switch,< then the KVM switch to a "real Alpha".  Trust me.  You will.C No Reflections.  No KEAterm.  No eXceed.  Native (semi-)direct VMS.  Won't work.    [MORE SNIPPAGE]    	-Ken    --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:47:13 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question2 Message-ID: <5nxJd.6532$mv4.3353@news.cpqcorp.net>  J There are two types of KVM switches - dumb pass-thru and "smart" switches.I The dumb ones simply pass the data through with little intellegence.  The G only thing that they need to do at least for VMS is to cause a power up D sequence to be generated when the KB is connected.  This way we willJ reprogram the KB automatically.  The smart ones actually have a uProc thatI handles the KB and then emulates a KB on the other side.  These keyboards J need to either know about the extended codes - or at least be smart enoughL to pass them through.  In the worst case, these KVMs handle USB as well, andK then they need to know how to turn the extendd PS2 codes into the right USB  codes.    9 "Ken Fairfield" <my.full.name@intel.com> wrote in message % news:ct657g$9jf$1@news01.intel.com...  > John E. Malmberg wrote:  > > Ken Fairfield wrote: > >  > >>G > >> I don't know specifically about the Outlook ES, but when I queried F > >> Avocent's technical support that Fall, the answer I got back was, > >>> > >>     "While our switches do support mode 3 keyboard, it is= > >>      currently only in the 101/102 keyboard layout.  The 2 > >>      additional keys would not pass through." > >>E > >> I got similar negative responses from Adder, Linksys and Belkin. D > >> I didn't expect anything different from Belkin, but Adder had a< > >> nice little switch I would've liked to buy...too bad... > >  > > K > > A google search shows that there are several mode 3 keyboards available , > > for x86 PC devices from several vendors. > > > Due respect, John, you're missing the point.  The problem is9 > not mode 3, and it is not x86 PCs.  It is KVM switches.  > @ > It is true that Windows of various generations works fine withB > LK4xx keyboards, and I, too, use one for my daily work connectedD > to an IBM T41 Laptop running Windows XP Professional (not proud of > it, just the facts m'am :-). > ; > The problem is the KVM switch does not pass the key codes D > corresponding to the "extra" keys on the LK4xx.  It passes all theD > keys codes found on a "standard" 101/102 key keyboard.  It doesn'tF > pass F17-F20, for example, or KP-comma, or the DO key, etc.  And I'mB > not even talking about the mapping of the 102 keys they do pass. > D > >> The other piece of information I've gleaned from my research isC > >> that essentially all of the switches put the physical keyboard G > >> into mode 2, then translate to/from mode 3 for the VMS connection.  > >  > > H > > A google search which I do not have handy indicates that x86 PCs notF > > only regularly use mode 3 for keyboards, support for the LK seriesJ > > appears to be present in many versions of Microsoft Windows.  The onlyH > > version known not to support the LK4xx keyboards is the first retail8 > > version of Microsoft NT 4.0.  The betas had support. > > G > > Unfortunately I could not find a list of what versions of Microsoft + > > Windows will support a NT 4.0 keyboard.  > > J > > It also appears from google that Linux will support an LKxxx keyboard. > A > Ditto: problem not with x86PC nor Windows, but with KVM switch.  > I > >> Apparently Raritan does the translation with a per-system-connection F > >> adapter (Alan, correct me if I'm wrong; I don't have any personal > >> experience with Raritan). > >  > > K > > Google is indicating that such translation is not needed as the x86 PCs K > > operating systems already know about and use mode 3, but that conflicts ; > > with what others who have studied this more than I did.  > 5 > Ditto: problem not with x86 PC but with KVM switch.  >  > [BIG SNIP] > J > > So far in my limited tests, Windows 98/2000 are quite happy with an LK4 > > keyboard connected through the cheap Belkin KVM. > B > Ditto: problem not with x86 PC nor Windows.  If you use an LK4xxB > through the Belkin to Windows, you won't see a problem.  Indeed,? > you may not see the problem through the Belkin to VMS if your C > access to VMS is through the PC (mode 2).  I don't know that this 7 > is true, I'm only allowing that I haven't tried it...  > F > YOU WILL SEE THE PROBLEM if you connect the LK4xx to the KVM switch,> > then the KVM switch to a "real Alpha".  Trust me.  You will.E > No Reflections.  No KEAterm.  No eXceed.  Native (semi-)direct VMS. 
 > Won't work.  >  > [MORE SNIPPAGE]  >  > -Ken >  > --  8 > I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... >  > Ken Fairfield # > D1C Automation VMS System Support $ > who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield > where: intel dot com >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:47:51 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question+ Message-ID: <ct67p7$anj$1@news01.intel.com>    FredK wrote:  L > There are two types of KVM switches - dumb pass-thru and "smart" switches.K > The dumb ones simply pass the data through with little intellegence.  The I > only thing that they need to do at least for VMS is to cause a power upNF > sequence to be generated when the KB is connected.  This way we willL > reprogram the KB automatically.  The smart ones actually have a uProc thatK > handles the KB and then emulates a KB on the other side.  These keyboardsnL > need to either know about the extended codes - or at least be smart enoughN > to pass them through.  In the worst case, these KVMs handle USB as well, andM > then they need to know how to turn the extendd PS2 codes into the right USBs > codes.  B Thanks, Fred.  There's the theory lesson for you.  Now to the lab.  B Problem is, given the range of KVM switches in the field, only theC "smart" ones have been shown to work (reasonably) connected to boths> a PC and a VMS system.  If you know differently, PLEASE SHARE!  B By the way, as near as my co-worker and I have been able to figure= out, the LK463 connected directly to the USB port of a laptopt7 running Windows XP does NOT recognize the "extra" keys.b  9 Same keyboard connected to the same laptop, but using theQ7 USB-to-PS/2 adapter and plugged into the PS/2 port on ae> port-replicator (no PS/2 connector on the nwere laptops) works fine, all 108 keys.t  > Apparently, the needed enhancements to the USB keyboard driver< are not included in Windows XP (would be nice if HP supplied such a driver)...n  	      -Kenl -- e6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldl! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:44:59 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question2 Message-ID: <fdyJd.6537$Wm4.4535@news.cpqcorp.net>  9 "Ken Fairfield" <my.full.name@intel.com> wrote in messageo% news:ct67p7$anj$1@news01.intel.com...  > FredK wrote: >aD > > There are two types of KVM switches - dumb pass-thru and "smart"	 switches.FH > > The dumb ones simply pass the data through with little intellegence. The-K > > only thing that they need to do at least for VMS is to cause a power upsH > > sequence to be generated when the KB is connected.  This way we willI > > reprogram the KB automatically.  The smart ones actually have a uProce thatC > > handles the KB and then emulates a KB on the other side.  Thesen	 keyboardsgG > > need to either know about the extended codes - or at least be smarti enoughL > > to pass them through.  In the worst case, these KVMs handle USB as well, and K > > then they need to know how to turn the extendd PS2 codes into the rightn USBs
 > > codes. >hD > Thanks, Fred.  There's the theory lesson for you.  Now to the lab. >pD > Problem is, given the range of KVM switches in the field, only theE > "smart" ones have been shown to work (reasonably) connected to both @ > a PC and a VMS system.  If you know differently, PLEASE SHARE! > D > By the way, as near as my co-worker and I have been able to figure? > out, the LK463 connected directly to the USB port of a laptopo9 > running Windows XP does NOT recognize the "extra" keys.e > ; > Same keyboard connected to the same laptop, but using then9 > USB-to-PS/2 adapter and plugged into the PS/2 port on am@ > port-replicator (no PS/2 connector on the nwere laptops) works > fine, all 108 keys.s >.@ > Apparently, the needed enhancements to the USB keyboard driver> > are not included in Windows XP (would be nice if HP supplied > such a driver)...t >v  I Yes/No.  USB is fairly well defined (as opposed to PS2).  There is a huge-I table of key codes - but when adding extra keys to a non-Windows keyboard L you just try to come as close as you can to how you think they *should* map.F You would imagine that the Windows drivers would just pass the USB keyE through - and I *think* they do, but don't know for certain - but foraL instance using PowerTerm I see something - unknown keys when using the LK463	 directly.-  K In any case, PowerTerm knows about the LK411 keyboard, and when you plug in L a LK463 *using* a PS2 dongle - that is what it looks like.  When you plug itL in directly, the keys don't map correctly in a way that the application (for instance PowerTerm) expects.  A I have shared the USB keymapping with Ericom in case they want to J incorporate support.  So if you are using one of their commercial versionsJ (HP no longer is updating the old version that was in Pathworks) feel free" to ask them to support it as well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:37:52 -0800e, From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question+ Message-ID: <ct6e7h$e5r$1@news01.intel.com>-   FredK wrote:   [...]2K > Yes/No.  USB is fairly well defined (as opposed to PS2).  There is a hugemK > table of key codes - but when adding extra keys to a non-Windows keyboarddN > you just try to come as close as you can to how you think they *should* map.H > You would imagine that the Windows drivers would just pass the USB keyG > through - and I *think* they do, but don't know for certain - but foreN > instance using PowerTerm I see something - unknown keys when using the LK463 > directly.t   [...]e9 OK, good to know.  I'll have to do some more experiments.C  E With both KEAterm and eXceed, and using the PS/2 connection, I'm ableR@ to map the otherwise "unrecognized" keys to their "proper" LK4xxB key or keysym.  I was looking over my co-worker's shoulder when heD tried, and failed, with the USB connection directly into his laptop.0 I'll try again on my own and report what I find.   	-Keno -- o6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldm! D1C Automation VMS System Supportn" who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2005 15:35:46 -0600+ From: wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg) " Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question3 Message-ID: <k5cBh4AkarhN@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  + In article <ct657g$9jf$1@news01.intel.com>,h0   Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> writes: > John E. Malmberg wrote:  >> Ken Fairfield wrote:. >>; > The problem is the KVM switch does not pass the key codeseD > corresponding to the "extra" keys on the LK4xx.  It passes all theD > keys codes found on a "standard" 101/102 key keyboard.  It doesn'tF > pass F17-F20, for example, or KP-comma, or the DO key, etc.  And I'mB > not even talking about the mapping of the 102 keys they do pass.  E F12, F13, F17, HELP, DO, AND KP MINUS, do not exist on a standard x86IF keyboard.  The BELKIN KVM switch that I have does not seem to have any> problem with sending them to the my DS10 after I switch to it.  @ I have not tried convincing Reflections 4 to attemp to use them.   These keys do work:k  / KP-COMMA is the same scan code as the PLUS key.:1 F18 is the same scan code as the PrtSc/SysRq key.-1 F19 is the same scan code as the Scroll Lock key.41 F20 is the same scan code as the Pause/Break key.c  C >>> The other piece of information I've gleaned from my research istB >>> that essentially all of the switches put the physical keyboardF >>> into mode 2, then translate to/from mode 3 for the VMS connection.  L I have not put any keyboard analyzers or test programs on either system so I/ really do not know what is actually being sent.t  I >> So far in my limited tests, Windows 98/2000 are quite happy with an LKt3 >> keyboard connected through the cheap Belkin KVM.a > B > Ditto: problem not with x86 PC nor Windows.  If you use an LK4xxB > through the Belkin to Windows, you won't see a problem.  Indeed,? > you may not see the problem through the Belkin to VMS if yourSC > access to VMS is through the PC (mode 2).  I don't know that thisv7 > is true, I'm only allowing that I haven't tried it...m  9 Apparently you did not follow the Encompasserve links :-)E  F > YOU WILL SEE THE PROBLEM if you connect the LK4xx to the KVM switch,> > then the KVM switch to a "real Alpha".  Trust me.  You will.E > No Reflections.  No KEAterm.  No eXceed.  Native (semi-)direct VMS.O
 > Won't work._  L I have the KVM switch connected to a x86 machine, and an Alpha and have been using it for a month now.   H My first reply today on this thread was composed by typing on a keyboardL connected to that Belkin KVM which also switches the speakers and microphoneJ at the same time, and I also logged into the system through Reflections 4,G which worked the same as it always did.  It did not see the extra keys.d  9 I do not yet have Pathworks 32 installed on that machine.   = So far, every thing that I have tried has worked as expected.   > The only thing that took me by surprise is that the ALT-F19 orK Alt-F19 toggles some DecWindows Motif mouse handling mode.  And you have toRM use the same ALT key (right or left) to unset the mode as was used to set it.i  K The only reason that I got the KVM was that it was on about 50% rebate lastyL month, making it very cheap, as it was already about the cheapest KVM in theH store and it handled the audio.  I figured if it did not work, I was not	 out much.    -Johnl wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2005 16:44:17 -0600+ From: wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg) " Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question3 Message-ID: <XDGKWGuYLdBW@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  2 In article <5nxJd.6532$mv4.3353@news.cpqcorp.net>,, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: >iL > There are two types of KVM switches - dumb pass-thru and "smart" switches.K > The dumb ones simply pass the data through with little intellegence.  TherI > only thing that they need to do at least for VMS is to cause a power upEF > sequence to be generated when the KB is connected.  This way we willL > reprogram the KB automatically.  The smart ones actually have a uProc thatK > handles the KB and then emulates a KB on the other side.  These keyboardswL > need to either know about the extended codes - or at least be smart enoughN > to pass them through.  In the worst case, these KVMs handle USB as well, andM > then they need to know how to turn the extendd PS2 codes into the right USBj > codes.  F With out an analyzer, there is probably no way to determine which typeN that the BELKIN F1DL102P KVM is.  It obviously has to have some smarts because9 the only way to switch sessions is by using the keyboard.d  D http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=164050  # It claims to do keyboard emulation.a  K As I remember, the retail price at the local store is a bit lower than whatsK is shown, and after the rebates, I think I ended up only spending less thanl 1/2 of even that.h  G There is not much documentation for it other than it is has support forh multiple operating systems.f  N I just put it in because it was cheap and allowed me to switch the audio also, which would simplify things.  6 I figured if it did not work, I would not be out much.  I I do not know if there are problems that I have not discovered, after all 1 it has only been a month on a home hobby machine.t   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlya   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:37:42 -0800o, From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question+ Message-ID: <ct6oom$jep$1@news01.intel.com>o  F My apologies...I think John and I have been talking past each other...  B My problem has been to get all the keys on an LK461 passed through? the KVM to the Alpha.  John seems to have been concentrating on ) what those keys do on the Windows side...    John E. Malmberg wrote:V   [...] G > F12, F13, F17, HELP, DO, AND KP MINUS, do not exist on a standard x86,H > keyboard.  The BELKIN KVM switch that I have does not seem to have any@ > problem with sending them to the my DS10 after I switch to it. > B > I have not tried convincing Reflections 4 to attemp to use them. >  > These keys do work:e > 1 > KP-COMMA is the same scan code as the PLUS key.u3 > F18 is the same scan code as the PrtSc/SysRq key.B3 > F19 is the same scan code as the Scroll Lock key.n3 > F20 is the same scan code as the Pause/Break key.h  A OK, right, in a Windows environment, that's the (default) mappingw@ I see.  Although I mis-remembered that KP-minus was missing withB KP-comma mapped to KP-plus; I had thought KP-comma was missing and KP-minus mapped to KP-plus.o  ? But I never considered this the root problem.  I was pleasantlyi> surprized that, under Windows 2000 and XP, both KEA and eXceed@ could "see" my key presses for the "extra" keys, and allow me to@ map them within the application to the correct LK4xx key code orC keysym.  That made me a happy camper since I could edit "naturally"w& on VMS while sitting at my laptop. :-)   [...].; > Apparently you did not follow the Encompasserve links :-)   = I have now. :-)  This is actually very good news.  My info is = clearly out of date, bit over a year old.  Or perhaps I askeda Belkin the wrong question.   [...] I > I have the KVM switch connected to a x86 machine, and an Alpha and haveu  > been using it for a month now. > J > My first reply today on this thread was composed by typing on a keyboardC > connected to that Belkin KVM which also switches the speakers andTI > microphone at the same time, and I also logged into the system through wH > Reflections 4, which worked the same as it always did.  It did not see > the extra keys.   C So this is interesting.  It would "appear", without the aid of some A signal tracing, that the KVM keeps the Alpha connection in mode 3 E and passes all codes, while the PC connection is in mode 2 and passes B only the 104 or so key codes it "knows".  Or is it that ReflectionE doesn't know how to handle the LK461?  What happens if you bypass thehE KVM and plug the LK461 directly into the PC?  Does Reflection see allcA the keys then?  If not, the problem is in Reflection, not the KVMt (at least, not necessarily).   [...]w@ > The only thing that took me by surprise is that the ALT-F19 orK > Alt-F19 toggles some DecWindows Motif mouse handling mode.  And you have fG > to use the same ALT key (right or left) to unset the mode as was useds > to set it.  ' I'll have to keep a lookout for that...o  I > The only reason that I got the KVM was that it was on about 50% rebate .H > last month, making it very cheap, as it was already about the cheapestE > KVM in the store and it handled the audio.  I figured if it did noth > work, I was not out much.l  > Sounds good!  And for those not familiar with this device, the@ Belkin F1DL102P is a 2-port KVM embedded in the cables.  It sortA of looks like a wishbone.  You don't need to buy separate cables,n< which for Raritan and Rose switches can be _very_ expensive!  D John, how long are the cables?  It's not clear from the description.E I'm using 5ft cables from my current switch to the two systems I have-) and I don't think I could go any shorter.8   	-Ken4 -- c6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Supporth" who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:02:03 -0500n- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>*" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question1 Message-ID: <DpednXnsDJrTuWrcRVn-rw@adelphia.com>u   Ken Fairfield wrote:  E > So this is interesting.  It would "appear", without the aid of somenC > signal tracing, that the KVM keeps the Alpha connection in mode 3DG > and passes all codes, while the PC connection is in mode 2 and passesBD > only the 104 or so key codes it "knows".  Or is it that ReflectionG > doesn't know how to handle the LK461?  What happens if you bypass theeG > KVM and plug the LK461 directly into the PC?  Does Reflection see all-C > the keys then?  If not, the problem is in Reflection, not the KVMi > (at least, not necessarily).  F My Reflections 4/X version is old, and it only knows about Windows NT F 4.0 and earlier.  Reflections 4 says that I have to install a special G DLL for it to use the LK450 layout, but that also appears to have side hG effects for the Microsoft side.  The script is also refusing to run on lG Windows 2000, simply stating it is prohibited from doing something.  I t! have not yet tried Reflections X.i  I So I will probably leave that alone.  I do not have time to try a direct h keyboard connection right now.  I I need to get a copy of the HP Pathworks 32 product for home use and see   if that works.  + I can not get the autoscan feature to work.t  F > John, how long are the cables?  It's not clear from the description.G > I'm using 5ft cables from my current switch to the two systems I haveu+ > and I don't think I could go any shorter.M  ? I can not find anything that admits to how long the cables are.l  E  From a crude eyeball estimate the cables look to be about 5 ft long.yH The instructions state that 8 ft is the longest that a video signal can F be reliably delivered.  But these cables are definitely not 8 ft long.  G There is no reason that the body of the switch has to be anywhere that AF it needs to be accessed.  No buttons at all, just some LEDs that tell $ you which screen you are looking at.  H The instructions indicate that with a F1D084 CAT-5 Extender can be used " to extend the length up to 500 ft.  ; There also appears to be 4 port models and USB only models.n    From the FAQ in the manual:  4    Q: What operating system does the Switch support?  F    A: The Switch will support any operating system that runs on a PS/2C       platform, It will also work with Sun(tm) and Mac(r) operatingmE       systems using the appropriate adapters.[snip] Operating systems-D       include but are not limited to, DOS, Windows 95, 98, 2000, Me,0       NT, XP, Linux, and Novell NetWare 4.x/5.x.  G But this one took my by surprise as I have been using all three buttonsdG on my digital 3 button mouse since I got this thing and they work fine   on VMS.f  ?    Q: Does the Switch function with the Microsoft IntelliMouse?o  =    A: Yes, the Switch will function with Microsoft, Logitech,m>       Kensignton, as well as with all Belkin mice.  The Switch?       will support only 2 mouse buttons.  Please contact Belkine?       Technical Support for any compatibility questions you mayd       have.a   -Johni wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:19:28 GMTa  From: John Santos <john@egh.com>& Subject: Re: disk drive spin direction+ Message-ID: <4uAJd.12869$HT6.2893@trnddc04>a   Al Dykes wrote:i? > In article <Sb6dnQmf0o-b7m_cRVn-vA@metrocastcablevision.com>,l, > Bill Todd  <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: >  >>John Laird wrote:e >> >>.... >>+ >>  Heads can and do sometimes stick on the  >>8 >>>parking area, and not necessarily in a fatal fashion. >>K >>Excellent point, given that the extremely light-weight arms required for cG >>good seek performance are likely to be considerably more tolerant of s >>tension than of compression. >>B >>Your sig reminds me of Tom Lehrer, who I'm glad to say is still D >>irreverently among us but not, unfortunately, still producing his D >>inimitable music (I think it's been re-released recently, though). >> >>- bill >  >  >   > OT: A 4 CD set, excellent.     > 0 > What height do disk heads fly at these days ?  > E > 20 years ago there was a diagram that was widely copied that showed	H > the flying height of the disk head compared to a smoke particle, dust,H > and the diameter of a human hair, in increasing steps that were nearly= > an order or magnutude, each. Smoke was too big for the gap.C  G It was on the back of the huge (zip-lock?) plastic bag that RK05's usedbG to come in.  IIRC, a hair was too big to fit in the picture, so it justD( included a 1/4 of it (in cross-section).  I I think modern disk heads fly much closer to the surface than RK05's did.K  D > It hasn't been mentioned that while in operation the heads requireE > substantial downward pressure to keep the heads flying at the right 	 > height.m   Back to poisoning pigeons...   -- t John Santosp Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2005 12:41:52 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA 3 Message-ID: <y50ol$bauUEJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  q In article <+Mjfg+oTcKYR@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:tl > In article <egWULtMBxnfX@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) writes: >>  K >> There's a straight-8 near the PDP-15. I went through the information age D >> exhibit last summer. Scary to see stuff there that I'd worked on. > H >    Yep.  And I had the same thing happen to me when I went through theC >    Air and Space annex out at Dulles.  Not just the same model ofa# >    computer, _the same computer_.p  C I was there the same week. What computers were displayed out there?.  K One guy in our party admitted that there was an artifact on display that heiF had designed! And they still have an entire airplane of his at Garber," waiting for a place to display it.  I Of course the most popular question is why couldn't the founder of Fed Ex J have donated the $60M so we could spell & pronounce the name of the museum :-)   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfeL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  K "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, exceptCF to encourage attendance in Christian churches; or prohibiting the freeG exercise thereof, except to require prayer in schools; or abridging the K freedom of speech, except for those questioning the Bush administration; orpJ of the press, except that not owned by Rupert Murdoch; or the right of theK people peaceably to assemble, except those protesting pre-emptive wars; andeL to petition the government for a redress of grievance, except those we don't" like." -former U.S. Sen. Gary Hart   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:10:59 -0000 $ From: "David Wade" <g8mqw@yahoo.com>A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USAS, Message-ID: <35o5gkF4nlrqbU1@individual.net>   >m1 > Sweet.. Need $ and $.. That would be very nice,i3 > have everything from pre-vacuum tube stuff on up.i5 > A home for analog computers too, yeah.. I could see-4 > it on 100 acres. Mostly indoors of course as geeks# > don't like the hot weather much..@ >s8 > The place could become a location of pilgrimages where9 > acolytes could chant in octal and wizards could perform 6 > 5-way merges on relational databases in an afternoon3 > while across the park, boy electricians made huge 0 > sparks fly by selecting the right capacitors.. >t7 > Microphones could be placed on the HDA's of grumblinga/ > RA81's and during this activity, connected toM8 > amplified subwoofers under the spinning platter-shaped- > floor in the next room - a "hard disk ride"e- > "Ride the RA-81 Platter like a dust speck!!s > Watch out for the heads!!"+ > Space mountain's got nothing on this one!h >e5 > Rides wouln't be the real attraction though, just ai9 > minor diversion. The interactive exhibits of all kinds, 5 > that's the key. The real VAXclusters and the 11/780s8 > with doors open to show off the cards. A LINUX Beowulf; > cluster, paper tape, DECtape, 9-track tape, 8-track tape.r8 > And the blinkenlights stuff in a room where the lights6 > dim evey several minutes or so. When the lights dim,7 > AM radios tuned to the music of each machine come on,a2 > machines programmed to play music via the RFI. I3 > know some remember doing that on pdp8's and other4 > stately machines.  >r9 > On the other stuff, ever programmed an analog computer?u  C Oddly enough yes, though it was via patch leads , pots and switchs.gF On the other hand it did simulate a range of problems really nicely...    3 > Talk about an experience. There's lots of classict5 > technology pieces out there, tons of test equipment 6 > with real CRT's, and machines like plasma generators; > from depostion processes, ever notice how you can measureu2 > plasma density by measuring the attenuation of a, > microwave beam through the plasma chamber? >r' > The progress of everything high tech:' > computersh > RF > audior1 > Germanium transistors (if anyone recalls those)  > plain old electricityo > tesla coil (very very large) > open-frame dynamos > what else? > ! > Might cost what $100M to start?d >c; > The only geek with enough $ to start something like that, 0 > and enough daring to pull it off is Mr. Gates. > 0 > It's wonderful and would probably make tons of$ > moolah.. Who's going to call Bill? > 8 > Ok so I was known for wild posts.. but that's the best< > thing I've heard of yet, a geek theme park. I'd pay to go. >l9 > It's not going to happen before June though. That's the 7 > timeframe we are looking at about now, so I'm back tod > the subject at hand. >t > Opcom    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:47:48 GMT.1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>a Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant VMSo2 Message-ID: <o0AJd.6561$xF4.4220@news.cpqcorp.net>   Tom M wrote:. > The NSK hardware may not be appropriate. See > m > http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&PostNum=3044&Thread=113&entryID=45371&roomID=11e > L > "This uses loosely-coupled duplex or triplex MPUs, with separate memories,N > voting only at bus-synchronized I/O events. This works for our message-basedE > OS and transaction workloads, but it won't generalize to Unix etc."o  H New concepts like "zones" had to be invented and implemented in VMS for H the VAXft series. I have no doubt that if VMS Engineering were directed I and funded to support the NonStop Itanium boxes, they'd be quite able to o do so.  E If you are a customer who needs fault-tolerant hardware for VMS, you r= would need to let Mark Gorham know. He can be reached at the t= conventional firstname.lastname@hp.com e-mail address format.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:31:15 -0500># From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>n Subject: Re: Fault-tolerant VMSe, Message-ID: <LK6dnYNnb6cpVWvcRVn-2g@igs.net>   Keith Parris wrote:a > Tom M wrote:/ >> The NSK hardware may not be appropriate. Seed >> >>L http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&PostNum=3044&Thr ead=113&entryID=45371&roomID=11p >>C >> "This uses loosely-coupled duplex or triplex MPUs, with separate G >> memories, voting only at bus-synchronized I/O events. This works ford? >> our message-based OS and transaction workloads, but it won'tt >> generalize to Unix etc."  > E > New concepts like "zones" had to be invented and implemented in VMSeD > for the VAXft series. I have no doubt that if VMS Engineering wereE > directed and funded to support the NonStop Itanium boxes, they'd beu > quite able to do so. > F > If you are a customer who needs fault-tolerant hardware for VMS, you> > would need to let Mark Gorham know. He can be reached at the? > conventional firstname.lastname@hp.com e-mail address format.i    I Seems to me that a *pro-active* HP would be canvassing their VMS customero base asking the question.d   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2005 19:08:58 -0800! From: google_groups_web@yahoo.comi& Subject: HAVE YOU HEARD THE GOOD NEWS!C Message-ID: <1106708938.907883.327030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   
 Good News!    G Do you know how simple it is to go to Heaven after this life has ended?d    G Some people believe that belonging to a local church, temple, mosque orb" synagogue will get them to Heaven.    G Others believe that water baptism, obeying the ten commandments or justy, being a good person will get them to Heaven.    G There are many other beliefs as well, but the good news about God's wayh% to Heaven is found in the Holy Bible.t    D The good news is that God came from Heaven to earth in the person ofD Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago and died for our sins(misdeeds). HeF was born in the land of Israel supernaturally to a virgin Jewish womanC named Mary. He lived a sinless life for thirty-three years and thennA sacrificed His sinless blood and died on a cross to pay the death G penalty for our sins. After Jesus was placed in a tomb He rose from thegG dead three days later as He said He would. The Holy Bible also tells us E that Jesus Christ ascended into Heaven and that all who accept Him astG their Lord and Saviour will live forever with Him in Heaven where therea, is no more death, sorrow, sickness and pain.    F The Bible says, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is: eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)    E This verse in the Bible says, "For ALL HAVE SINNED, and come short ofe  the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)    C This verse says, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this:d> While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)    G In this passage the Bible clearly explains how simple it is to be saveddF and on your way to Heaven, "For if you confess with your mouth, "JesusF is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,! you WILL BE SAVED." (Romans 10:9)t    E You can be saved right now and on your way to Heaven if you will openh2 your heart to Jesus and pray the following prayer:  B Dear Jesus Christ, I want to be saved so that I can have a home in7 Heaven when I die. I agree with You that I am a sinner.hF I believe You love me and want to save me. I believe that You bled andD died on the cross to pay the penalty for my sins. I believe that YouE rose from the dead. Please forgive my sins and come into my heart and D be my Lord and Saviour. Thank You Lord Jesus Christ for forgiving me0 and saving me through Your merciful grace. Amen.    F You are now a Christian if you said the prayer and allowed God to save" you. Welcome to the family of God.    F Salvation is not a reward but a gift. The Bible says it this way, "ForC it is by GRACE you have been SAVED, through FAITH and this not fromc3 yourselves, it is the GIFT of God." (Ephesians 2:8)     A Nothing in the world is more important than your eternal destiny.     D The Bible says, "In Him(Jesus) we have redemption through His blood,+ the forgiveness of sins..." (Ephesians 1:7)o    A If you have not yet made a decision to be saved, please do so nowaD before it is too late. The reason why it is so important to be savedE now is because you do not know exactly when you will die. You may die E prematurely in a traffic accident, terrorist attack or some other wayo* before you get another chance to be saved.    F The Bible tells us that we will spend eternity in Heaven or a place ofG eternal torment called Hell. It would be terrible to die and go to Hell'D when all you have to do is accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour.    F Some people that have already made Jesus Christ their Lord and SaviourE worry about losing their salvation. The Bible teaches Christians thatt7 we can never lose our salvation no matter what happens.I    E The Bible says it this way, "My dear children, I write this to you soBF that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks> to the Father in our defense Jesus Christ, the Righteous One."    C Yes my friend, Jesus Christ is able to save you and keep you saved.L    , Please tell your family and friends, thanks!     Have a great day!  Internet Evangelist R.L. Grossio          3 1. http://www.biblegateway.com << Free Online BibleP? 2. http://www.free-hoster.com/goodnews << Passion of the Christg< 3. http://www.carm.org/cults/cultlist.htm << Beware Of Cults4 4. http://www.equip.org/free/DH198.htm << About HellD 5. http://www.powertochange.com/questions/qna2.html << Is Jesus God?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 01:33:45 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: LAT application port notification of events, Message-ID: <41F739A7.A3E74878@teksavvy.com>   Here is my goal:  E have a program that logs any serial port input from my router and dsl-E modem and any other device to a file, but allows a user to access the , port for interactive use whenever necessary.  @ This would have been quite easy if I could find out what lock isD requested when an application program tries to assign a channel to aE serial device. (with a blocking AST, my app could then relinquish theuH port, let the user do the interactive stuff and have a request to relock. the port once it is fgreed by the user again).  8 So, as a fall back, I realised I could use LAT for this.  G So application permanently assigns channel to the serial port, but alsohE offers a LAT service so that a user can so SET HOST/LAT CHOCOLATE andeG connect to my application which would then relay keystrokes to/from the = serial port. And the IO USers guide does show how to do this.   E However, what it does not show is how the application can be notifiedtD when someone has in fact connected to the LAT service (so that I canG then switch from being a simple logger to being a relay between the latgH port and the serial port), and more importantly, how to be notified whenE the user has disconnected from the last service (so that I can switcho/ the app back to being a logger of serial port).a  A Does anyone have any general details on how these two bits can bee accomplished ?  G I am somewhat puzzled as to why the LAT driver doesn't behave similarlyaD to the DECNET driver where a mailbox receives network messages about3 call setup, call termination, network problems etc.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:38:46 GMTe/ From: "news.twcny.rr.com" <skrass@twcny.rr.com>e3 Subject: Need Raid License for HSZ20 Raid Array 310 2 Message-ID: <qEBJd.158$MX2.8@twister.nyroc.rr.com>   Hi,n& Hope someone can help me out of a jam.G I need to revive a Raid Array 310 with an HSZ20 that lost its licenses.SJ I've got the licenses, somewhere.  Its been 6 years or so since I've seen K them.  Can someone please 'borrow' me a raid license until I can find mine?m Thanks,  Spencerp skrass@twcny.rr.com    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2005 17:36:24 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)@ Subject: Re: New and Refreshed Advertising Colateral for OpenVMS= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0501251736.1646f3e5@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message news:<41F5C349.B0D1F132@teksavvy.com>...i > AEF wrote:F > > your face (or whatever the expression is). I mean, suppose HP doesK > > start promoting VMS. Do we then forget the Alphacide and let people buyw2 > > it? Do we continue to warn them not to buy it?H > It isn't a question of warning people not to buy VMS. It is a questionJ > of warning people that HP can't be trusted. There is quite a difference.J > In terms of "what if HP starts to market VMS ?", ther is a simple answer
 > to this:G > Ever since Palmer days, the cycle has been simple: let VMS slide intowJ > oblivion until complaints from customers/cov rose to a certain loudness,? > at which point, you do a token piece of marketing to stop the.E > complaints, and later revert to the previous policy of actively nott/ > mentioning VMS, until the cycle begins again.nH > This has happened often enough that a single piece such as last week'sC > so called "web event" can't be viewed as a sign that HP is reallyeI > changing the way it is handling VMS from now on. Only time will tell iff  F Agreed. I only said it was good to see VMS get top billing (amongst hp OSes, of course).o  D > there is to be a real and permanent change in HP attitudes on VMS.G > HP used to have the excuse that they didn't want to grow VMS on AlphahI > since Alpha was dead. They no longer have any excuses NOT to market VMSd& > now that it runs on that IA64 thing.   OK.   E > Go back to 2000 during the short lived renaissance, and you'll find)F > plenty of positive posts about the stuff Marcello was doing for VMS,D > including PUBLIC POSTERS in bus stops in a european country (can'tJ > remember which). But alas, even this didn't l;ast more than a few monthsJ > and then witherede away, and it took a while before people realised thatH > VMS was back to "no markleting allowed" mode in Compaq. Shortly after, > Alpha was being killed.u  = So any speculation on what actually prompted this short lived3F renaissance? Can anyone here explain how it went right and then how it went so wrong?   thanks.6   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:56:46 -0500d, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>* Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 Docs on web page?, Message-ID: <41f6972e$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   no it's not two-speed.  K it's the difference between 100 pages that have always been in the compliere area and 30,000 pages thatK are brand new and must be branded by hand. (mostly from programs but I havet to check them all- individually).  J Plus I had to change every other page on the site for the color change for the announcement and= all the announcement pages and other stuff you all don't see.e  . They will be out before 8.2 goes out the door.    > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message* news:ct4q9k$g4i$1@sparta.btinternet.com... > Hi,y >o& > >some like c, c++ are out already on > > thea > > c and c++ areas. > 1 > No there's a surprise :-( Two-speed VMS anyone?h >t( > We get treated like Oracle treats VMS. >y > Regards Richard Maherk >h9 > "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> wrote in messagei( > news:41f572cf$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...B > > The 82 docs are being worked. I expect this week or next week. > >aL > > as has been said the 82 ft docs are out there and i've heard not a whole > lotc > > isK > > changing. yes there will be more docs. some like c, c++ are out alreadyx on > > they > > c and c++ areas. > >o > >e< > > "Ryan Moore" <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org> wrote in message: > > news:Pine.LNX.4.61.0501220041100.15550@jaipur.local...J > > > Now that 8.2 has been 'officially' released, any chance the 8.2 docs > willI > > > be posted to the web page?  We haven't received our doc updates yeth andh > IfK > > > would like to see the final release notes and new features manuals atJ > > > least. > > >0
 > > > Thanks.q > > >o > > > -Ryana > >g > >u >c >R   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:28:51 -0500g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>> Subject: Re: PDFs for HP C docs@, Message-ID: <41F6AC03.29D62CAB@teksavvy.com>   Galen wrote:H > Using Google and other search methods I haven't been able to find PDFsE > for the VMS versions of the HP C language reference and users guidee  3 You need to specify whether you mean HP C or DEC C.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:48:53 -0800c From: Z <Z@no.spam>n Subject: Re: PDFs for HP C docs ) Message-ID: <vADJd.6927$79.4831@fe03.lga>L   Galen wrote:H > Using Google and other search methods I haven't been able to find PDFsE > for the VMS versions of the HP C language reference and users guide I > documents at hp.com, though it appears that the PDFs for Tru64 versionsa > might be available.h  3 See:  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/os73_index.html   E Some PDFs are available. I usually d/l from the links in the Version s
 7.3-2 tab.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:24:54 +0000 (UTC)y- From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)l' Subject: Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIPn. Message-ID: <ct66e6$1ns$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  n k <kdog93@cox.net> writes in article <nb_Id.50553$Tf5.18942@lakeread03> dated Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:45:23 -0500: >    mylinux% xhost+ >i= >    MYVMS$ set display/create/node="mylinux"/transport=TCPIPt >    MYVMS$ mcr decw$puzzle  >t >I get:s >/( >    X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display* >    %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204  I That's the same error code I get when I forget to do "xhost +", or send ah# display to a non-logged-in console.t  K Can you "telnet mylinux 6000" and get a connection?  If not, the problem isM definitely on the Linux end.    H >Also, sitting at the console, I can telnet to the mylinux, but I cannotH >send a window back to the OpenVMS.  In otherwords, the following fails: >e >    % export DISPLAY=myvms:0.0T >    % xlogo > I >I've run DECW$SESSION and changed the security to * * *, * * TCPIP, etc.a >  No luck.   J You also need to edit SYS$STARTUP:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM (copy fromJ TEMPLATE if it isn't there) to include TCPIP as a transport.  Then restartG decwindows or reboot.  Again, "telnet myvms 6000" can help you diagnosed this.h  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:47:52 -0500c From: k <kdog93@cox.net>' Subject: Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIPh. Message-ID: <ZMBJd.95387$Jk5.81572@lakeread01>  C Thanks for the help!  I now have a partial solution to the problem.a  1 The first half of the solution was that I needed:   2   $ decw$server_transports == "DECNET,LOCAL,TCPIP"  K in SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM. Now that this is done, I can:y   	$ telnet mylinuxn 	... log in... 	% export DISPLAY=myvms:0.0n 	% xlogo  ) and get a window from mylinux onto myvms.0  I HOWEVER! what still does not work is the other direction.  That is, from p mylinux:  
 	% xhost + 	% telnet myvmsa 	... login ...2 	$ set display/create/node=mylinux/transport=tcpip 	$ mcr decw$examples:ico 	Cannot open display, 	: non-translatable vms error code: 0x3D02942 	%mcr-f-reject, connect to network object rejected  
 Neither does:u0 	$ set display/create/trans=tcpip/node="mylinux". 	$ set display/create/trans=tcpip/node=MYLINUX0 	$ set display/create/trans=tcpip/node="MYLINUX"4 	$ set display/create/trans=tcpip/node="192.168.1.2"2 	$ set display/create/trans=tcpip/node=192.168.1.2   andi   	$ telnet /port=6000 mylinux) 	%TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 192.168.1.2c5 	%TELNET-E-CONNFAIL, Failed to connect to remote hostr   So, what is this about:E  J  > There is a known issue with connecting from recent releases of LINUX toI  > the DECwindows server. I know it is an issue with the latest releases, I  > not sure about earlier ones. The problem is that the server provides a I  > response to the initial connection message that is longer than definedh9  > in the protocol and now the LINUX client detects this.n  G Can you elaborate or point me to more definitive information.  Haven't c! found a clear solution on google.    Thanks!a     kz      martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk wrote:1 >>from my linux box into the OpenVMS machine and:t >>> >>    MYVMS$ set display/create/node="mylinux"/transport=TCPIP >>    MYVMS$ mcr decw$puzzle >> >  > I > Try running DECW$EXAMPLES:ICO instead of puzzle - it gives better errorm > messages.a > B > Try using the IP address instead of node name in the SET DISPLAY
 > command. > F > Try using telnet from the OpenVMS system to the LINUX system on port6 > 6000, to see if it is a DECwindows or network issue. >  >  >>I get: >>) >>    X Toolkit Error: Can't Open displaye+ >>    %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204i >> >  > + > $ set message sys$message:DECW$DWTMSG.EXEc > $ exit %X3AB8204' > %DWT-F-DWTABORT, xtoolkit fatal erroro > G > Which doesn't add anything. Just thought I'ld see what the error was.i >  >  >>....B >>Also, sitting at the console, I can telnet to the mylinux, but I >  > cannot > B >>send a window back to the OpenVMS.  In otherwords, the following >  > fails: >   >>    % export DISPLAY=myvms:0.0
 >>    % xlogo@ >>E >>I've run DECW$SESSION and changed the security to * * *, * * TCPIP,e >  > etc. >  >>  No luck. >> >  > E > You do need to tell the DECwindows server to load TCP/IP. Either by * > setting up DECW$SERVER_TRANSPORTS in theB > SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM file or by setting the7 > DECW$INSTALL_TCPIP (I think that is correct) logical.a > I > There is a known issue with connecting from recent releases of LINUX to H > the DECwindows server. I know it is an issue with the latest releases,H > not sure about earlier ones. The problem is that the server provides aH > response to the initial connection message that is longer than defined8 > in the protocol and now the LINUX client detects this. >  > ---- > H > The "Managing DECwindows Motif for OpenVMS" manual should be re-issuedI > when the OpenVMS V8.2 documentations are put on the web. It includes annC > enhanced section on troubleshooting TCP/IP connection issues with,
 > DECwindows.f >  > Martin Kirby >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:56:30 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>d' Subject: Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIPe, Message-ID: <41F706C9.2CE988A7@teksavvy.com>   k wrote:% >         $ telnet /port=6000 mylinuxX2 >         %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 192.168.1.2> >         %TELNET-E-CONNFAIL, Failed to connect to remote host  F This would mean that the problem isn't at the  VMS side of X.   If theD VMS host can telnet to port 23 (regular port) of your linux host, it> means that there is TCPIP connectivity. Therefore, the logicalH conclusion is that your linux side (the X server/X terminal software) is blocking inbound calls.,  F If, from my mac, I try to connect to my VAX's port 6000, I connect andF then get an error message in ascii about not the right protocol (since? the telnet sofware isn't sending the right X protocol packets).y  A If my VAX connects to my MAC's port 6000, I get connected, but noe* message, but the connection is maintained.  G So if I had to bet some chocolate bars on this, I'd say that your linuxyG host is blocking inbound calls. This could be at the TCPIP level, or in G the X server software which doesn't have the right config to allow youra VMS host to connect.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:27:34 -0800 3 From: "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii_googlespam@yahoo.com>iY Subject: Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is importao0 Message-ID: <10vdpg6gqeknda2@corp.supernews.com>   John Smith wrote:V  & > Thanks Kerry. Yes, I had seen those. > G > I had suggested to HP that they take a few million dollars and hire aiH > small handful of under-employed talented VMS experienced developers toD > port the top 3-5 open source apps still not ported in a variety ofK > categories to VMS over the next year or so. Had the suggestion been actedLL > upon when first suggested, there would have been more to crow about at theE > webcast last Tuesday and in the plethora of trade rag articles thatMJ > appears at that time...."HP Serious about Open Source on VMS....hundredsL > of new apps available". An opportunity squandered due to lack of vision or > cojones or both.  ( Here is an old post that seems relevant:  K http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=hoffman+vms+sourceforge+compile+farm 	 links to:   1 "VMS system on the sourceforge.net Compile Farm?" 3 "comp.os.vms - Feb 6 2002, 1:06 pm by Hoff Hoffman"h   G > I might be able to scrounge up hardware and licenses -- anybody have aB > details on the logistics and particularly the system management ; > requirements for inclusion in the Sourceforge build farm?  >...3 >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   o >   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com t  e -- r C.W.Holeman II) cwh5ii@Julian5Locals.com remove the fivesh   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:44:20 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>2 Subject: Re: RFA string format, Message-ID: <41F6AFA3.6ED7B69B@teksavvy.com>  H ALL-IN 1 makes quite a bit of use of the RFA to access records, but onlyB after having obtained the record's RFA by accessing it via key (orF sequentially too). In other words, once you've accessed the record theC "expensive" way, further acesses can be done by RFA to make it more J efficient. )beyond the fact that A1 caches the most recently read record).  * However, the RFA is never stored on disk.   H Are there any applications that would actually store the RFA  on disk asG part of some homemade indexing etc ? Or would this be a big no-no sinceh( RFAs cannot be trusted to be permanent ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:51:25 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>l Subject: Re: RFA string format, Message-ID: <41F6BF5D.7040503@tsoft-inc.com>   Jan van der Weijde wrote:s  2 > Are you sure RFA's are different per file type ?     I'm not SURE of anything.g  1 But I did 2 bery brief and abreviated tests, and:i  P For a relative fixed file, I basically got back a 48 bit unsigned binary number P with a value of the record index.  I went past 65536 to insure getting into the 	 17th bit..  J For an indexed fixed file, I got results similar to that reported by Alan I Frisbie, the third word appeared to possibly be an address, possibly the  N starting block number, for a bucket.  The first word appeared to the index of R the record in the bucket.  A liberal dose of APPEARED needs to be applied to this.    7 > In various HP documentation I read they are the same:hE > "Random access by RFA is supported for all disk files. Whenever RMSoL > successfully accesses a record, an internal representation of the record'sN > location is returned in the 6-byte RAB field RAB$W_RFA. When a program wantsK > to retrieve the record using random access by RFA, RMS uses this internaly  > data to retrieve the record. " > 
 > Also manual Q > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/DOC/731FINAL/DOCUMENTATION/PDF/OVMS_731_FILE_APP.PDF,tB > (table 2-1, page 2-2), does not mention diffrent RFA's per type. > 	 > Thanks,u > Jan0 > 8 > "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> schreef in bericht$ > news:41F62915.602@tsoft-inc.com... >  >>JF Mezei wrote:g >> >> >>>Question: >>>pH >>>For  database systems such as Oracle or RDB, how do they access theirH >>>data inside their database files ?  Aren't those considered to be raw  >>>data container files by RMS ? >>>dK >>>Do these database applications make use of RFAs at all ? Or do they workWK >>>only with raw byte offsets, or just relative block numbers inside a file  >>>h > ?e > F >>RFAs are used within an RMS file.  The databases don't use RMS, thus >>
 > wouldn't >  >>use RFAs.h >>L >>I did a bit more playing around, this time with an indexed file.  It seems >> > that > J >>an RFA for a relative file and a RFA for an indexed file are two totally> >>seperate things.  Wish there was some documentation on RFAs. >> >> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:43:20 -0500n( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: RFA string format= Message-ID: <L6GdnUVxUr4cVmvcRVn-2g@metrocastcablevision.com>    Jan van der Weijde wrote:92 > Are you sure RFA's are different per file type ?   Yes.   > 7 > In various HP documentation I read they are the same:c  E No, you just misinterpreted what you read:  it does not say that the a9 internal representations are the same for all file types.t   ...   . >>  Wish there was some documentation on RFAs.  G There is no documentation about the internal structure of RFAs because iC they are meant to be opaque.  Among other things, this could allow i4 future extensions without breaking current programs.  ? That said, their internal structure has already been described oH accurately in this thread (save possibly for the indexed file record ID I breaking up the two words of VBN:  that's not the way I remember it), at n2 least the structure that obtained two decades ago.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:46:01 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: RFA string format= Message-ID: <L6GdnURxUr6_UWvcRVn-2g@metrocastcablevision.com>l   JF Mezei wrote:dJ > ALL-IN 1 makes quite a bit of use of the RFA to access records, but onlyD > after having obtained the record's RFA by accessing it via key (orH > sequentially too). In other words, once you've accessed the record theE > "expensive" way, further acesses can be done by RFA to make it moreoL > efficient. )beyond the fact that A1 caches the most recently read record). > , > However, the RFA is never stored on disk.  > J > Are there any applications that would actually store the RFA  on disk asI > part of some homemade indexing etc ? Or would this be a big no-no since * > RFAs cannot be trusted to be permanent ?  D RFA's *can* be trusted to be permanent, unless you make an explicit G decision to use some utility to reorganize or copy (non-block-mode) an 2H indexed file or truncate a sequential to a point prior to the record to  which the RFA applies.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:17:37 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>n Subject: Re: RFA string format, Message-ID: <41F6D387.47C3230E@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:K > For an indexed fixed file, I got results similar to that reported by AlanpJ > Frisbie, the third word appeared to possibly be an address, possibly the' > starting block number, for a bucket. m  C From the information below, which parameters tell me how many indexh entries fit in one bucket ?e  F The first byte of the RFA display below is shared by a variable numberF of records that goes up to 9 if I counted correctly. And this listing,D ordered by key 0, the value of the first byte is sorted in ascendingG order. The second to last byte is ordered sequentially for records that  share the first byte.l  G (I assume the allin-1 display value is a byte by byte display of littlei endian words).      , Here is what I get for a small indexed file:   I think the relevant FDL stuff:  AREA 0#         ALLOCATION              306 #         BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes	!         BUCKET_SIZE             6 "         EXTENSION               78   KEY 0s"         DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    no!         DATA_AREA               0w#         DATA_FILL               100.!         INDEX_AREA              1 #         INDEX_COMPRESSION       yesg#         INDEX_FILL              100C!         LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       1i"         SEG0_LENGTH             20     ANALYSIS_OF_KEY 0e"         DATA_FILL               72!         DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    0e"         DATA_RECORD_COUNT       78"         DATA_SPACE_OCCUPIED     96!         DEPTH                   1d"         INDEX_COMPRESSION       48!         INDEX_FILL              6o!         INDEX_SPACE_OCCUPIED    6p"         LEVEL1_RECORD_COUNT     16$         MEAN_DATA_LENGTH        1606"         MEAN_INDEX_LENGTH       22         Rec:1   RFA: %#050000000100a Rec:2   RFA: %#050000000200  Rec:3   RFA: %#0500000003008 Rec:4   RFA: %#050000000400d Rec:5   RFA: %#050000000500  Rec:6   RFA: %#050000000600g Rec:7   RFA: %#050000000700d Rec:8   RFA: %#0B0000000100d Rec:9   RFA: %#0B0000000300  Rec:10   RFA: %#0B0000000500 Rec:11   RFA: %#110000000100 Rec:12   RFA: %#110000000200 Rec:13   RFA: %#110000000400 Rec:14   RFA: %#110000000500 Rec:15   RFA: %#170000000100 Rec:16   RFA: %#170000000200 Rec:17   RFA: %#170000000300 Rec:18   RFA: %#170000000400 Rec:19   RFA: %#170000000500 Rec:20   RFA: %#170000000600 Rec:21   RFA: %#1D0000000100 Rec:22   RFA: %#1D0000000200 Rec:23   RFA: %#1D0000000400 Rec:24   RFA: %#1D0000000500 Rec:25   RFA: %#1D0000000600 Rec:26   RFA: %#230000000100 Rec:27   RFA: %#230000000200 Rec:28   RFA: %#230000000300 Rec:29   RFA: %#230000000400 Rec:30   RFA: %#230000000500 Rec:31   RFA: %#230000000600 Rec:32   RFA: %#230000000700 Rec:33   RFA: %#290000000100 Rec:34   RFA: %#290000000200 Rec:35   RFA: %#290000000300 Rec:36   RFA: %#290000000400 Rec:37   RFA: %#290000000500 Rec:38   RFA: %#290000000600 Rec:39   RFA: %#2F0000000100 Rec:40   RFA: %#2F0000000200 Rec:41   RFA: %#2F0000000300 Rec:42   RFA: %#2F0000000400 Rec:43   RFA: %#2F0000000500 Rec:44   RFA: %#2F0000000600 Rec:45   RFA: %#2F0000000700 Rec:46   RFA: %#350000000100 Rec:47   RFA: %#350000000200 Rec:48   RFA: %#350000000300 Rec:49   RFA: %#350000000400 Rec:50   RFA: %#350000000500 Rec:51   RFA: %#350000000700 Rec:52   RFA: %#3B0000000900 Rec:53   RFA: %#3B0000000800 Rec:54   RFA: %#3B0000000100 Rec:55   RFA: %#3B0000000700 Rec:56   RFA: %#3B0000000200 Rec:57   RFA: %#3B0000000300 Rec:58   RFA: %#3B0000000400 Rec:59   RFA: %#3B0000000500 Rec:60   RFA: %#3B0000000600 Rec:61   RFA: %#410000000100 Rec:62   RFA: %#410000000200 Rec:63   RFA: %#410000000300 Rec:64   RFA: %#410000000400 Rec:65   RFA: %#410000000500 Rec:66   RFA: %#410000000600 Rec:67   RFA: %#470000000100 Rec:68   RFA: %#470000000300 Rec:69   RFA: %#470000000800 Rec:70   RFA: %#470000000400 Rec:71   RFA: %#470000000500 Rec:72   RFA: %#470000000600 Rec:73   RFA: %#470000000700 Rec:74   RFA: %#4D0000000600 Rec:75   RFA: %#4D0000000100 Rec:76   RFA: %#4D0000000200 Rec:77   RFA: %#4D0000000300 Rec:78   RFA: %#4D0000000400   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.051 ************************