0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 26 Jan 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 52      Contents:P Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data inconsistenP Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data inconsistenG Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips ! CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing 0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia; Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia - Security ; Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia - Security  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question 8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA General mount/shadow command? ! Re: General mount/shadow command? = Re: Help configuring RAID with HP SmartArray 5300A controller / Re: LAT application port notification of events P Looking for old version of VMS 5.x or newer version of VAX BASIS for OPtion Modu NFS Container file system / NFS server software on a PC for access from VMS 3 Re: NFS server software on a PC for access from VMS  Re: PDFs for HP C docs Re: PDFs for HP C docs Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIP Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIP Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIP Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIP Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIPP Re: Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is impP Re: Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is impP Re: Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is imp Re: RFA string format 
 Tivoli SRM Re: Tivoli SRM [ANN] Superversion for OpenVMS  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:28:08 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) Y Subject: Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data inconsisten 2 Message-ID: <YNNJd.6601$Kx5.3710@news.cpqcorp.net>  1 In article <xrOdnZPVDNIVYGvcRVn-uw@inreach.com>,  & John Hixson <john@divinix.org> writes:  , >   I modified LOGIN.COM with the following: >  >$ VI*M :== VIM:VIM.EXE  >$ VI :== VIM:VIM.EXE  ..  F This is probably NOT your immediate problem, but these symbols coflict@ with the OpenVMS command VIEW.  i.e. On OpenVMS one would expect* the command "VI" to invoke the CDE Viewer.   (See HELP VI for more info.)  @ OpenVMS discourages defining symbols that are also DCL commands.? In this case, it may not be likely to cause a problem for you,   but it is still bad pratice.  F If you keep this definition, I suggest you eliminate the second one --, the first one covers entering "VI" or "VIM".  4 If you expect this to operate as a foreign command,  you need to add a "$".  i.e.       $ VI*M :== $VIM:VIM.EXE   9 (I assume that VIM is also a logical name pointing to the - disk and directory where VIM.EXE is located.)   
     Enjoy!   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:25:26 -0800 $ From: John Hixson <john@divinix.org>Y Subject: Re: %DCL-E-INVIFNEST, invalid IF-THEN-ELSE nesting structure or data inconsisten 0 Message-ID: <WL2dndMow85lzmrcRVn-pw@inreach.com>   Hi Guys,H    OK, I Took the cheasy way out =). I reinstalled OpenVMS from scratch G since I had no clue what I was doing when I initially installed it and  I probably messed a few things up. I have been sucessfully able to install  8 software since, so everything is peachy now. I am using F RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM to be sure my file attributes are G not hosed as well. Thanks again for your guys help on this and sending   me in the right direction =).    Thanks,  John     johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote:  > John,  > G > Did you get your product savesets VIA FTP or off a CD?  If it was FTP F > then you probably have some corrupted savesets causing the RMS-W-RTBH > errors.  First of all make sure you FTP'd the files in BINARY mode. IfD > you're not sure, then re-do the transfers.  Then cut and paste the0 > following DCL script to your machine (maybe toG > "sys$manager:RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM") and run it on each B > saveset file (i.e.  @sys$manager:RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTESI > dka0:[john.cc065.kit]cc065.a; ).  This should fix any problems with the G > file's RMS attributes which may have gotten lost in the FTP.  You can B > find out more information about the script below from this link:8 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/freeware/backup.html >  > HTH, > John H. Reinhardt  >  > ( > $! RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES.COM > $!3 > $! P1  is the specification of the BACKUP saveset  > $!7 > $! This procedure resets the record format and record 6 > $! length attributes of a BACKUP saveset -- savesets2 > $! can get "broken" during certain sorts of file8 > $! transfers -- such as FTP.  This procedure reads the6 > $! (undocumented) saveset record attributes directly > $! out of the target file. > $!6 > $! First render the saveset readable, and implicitly  > $! check that the file exists. > $! > $ Set File -: > /Attributes=(RFM:FIX,MRS:512,LRL=512,ORG=SEQ,RAT=NONE) - > 'p1' > $ * > $ Open/Error=whoops/Read BckSaveset 'p1'2 > $ Read/Error=whoops/End=whoops BckSaveset Record > $ Close/Nolog BckSaveset > $ 1 > $! Find the blocksize from within the record...  > $  > $ BlockSize = 0  > $ BBH_L_BLOCKSIZE = %x28*83 > $ BlockSize = F$CVUI(BBH_L_BLOCKSIZE, 32, Record) 4 > $ If BlockSize .lt. 2048 .or. BlockSize .gt. 65535 > $ Then. > $   Write sys$output "Unexpected block size" > $   Goto whoops  > $ Else6 > $   Set File /Attributes=(RFM:FIX,LRL='BlockSize', - > MRS='BlockSize',RAT=none) -  > 'p1'	 > $ endif  > $ exit
 > $WHOOPS: > $ Write sys$output "Error" > $ exit >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:58:48 -0000 1 From: wspencer@ap.dontspamme.org (Warren Spencer) P Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips1 Message-ID: <95EA899C1wspenceraporg@216.168.3.30>   0 jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com (JF Mezei) wrote in" <41F2B962.FE815FC9@teksavvy.com>:    >Al Dykes wrote:G >> don't have a clear conclusion.  I see that HP has no plan on VMS for  >> AMD.  > F >HP has not admitted publicly to having plans to port VMS, HPUX and/orI >Tandem to the 8086 architecture. This does not mean that they don't have  >plans.   I And Mark Gorham (top-level HP guy in charge of OpenVMS) recently said in  J the press (I don't recall where) that OpenVMS *could* be ported to the 64-8 bit AMD platform, although there were no plans to do so.   ws   --   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 03:21:52 -0800) From: alanhathway@gmx.de (Allan Hathaway) * Subject: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing= Message-ID: <77ad1693.0501260321.58abdbd6@posting.google.com>    Hallo!  E We are using a cluster plus a further OpenVMS computer, at the moment D with DECNET and LAT switched on. In the future we have been told, weD will not be able to use DECNET (because of changes to the networking> cabling in the company - something to do with DECNET cannot do	 routing).   ( What consequences will that have for us?A 1. Is it true, that I then cannot use LAT but must use TCP/IP and ! TELNET for all interactive users? C 2. I cannot copy between the cluster and the other OpenVMS computer - with $COPY - I will have to use FTP. Correct? < 3. All Printers with LATSYM must be changed to TELNET-QueuesD 4. Various Devices eg. DECServer 200 will not work any more, because$ they need to download their software" 5. What happens to Load-Balancing? Anything else? Thanks in advance    Allan Hathaway   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 03:59:05 -0800) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> . Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-BalancingC Message-ID: <1106740745.162190.204910@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Allan Hathaway wrote:  > Hallo! > G > We are using a cluster plus a further OpenVMS computer, at the moment F > with DECNET and LAT switched on. In the future we have been told, weF > will not be able to use DECNET (because of changes to the networking@ > cabling in the company - something to do with DECNET cannot do > routing).  > * > What consequences will that have for us?C > 1. Is it true, that I then cannot use LAT but must use TCP/IP and # > TELNET for all interactive users? E > 2. I cannot copy between the cluster and the other OpenVMS computer / > with $COPY - I will have to use FTP. Correct? > > 3. All Printers with LATSYM must be changed to TELNET-QueuesF > 4. Various Devices eg. DECServer 200 will not work any more, because& > they need to download their software$ > 5. What happens to Load-Balancing? > Anything else? > Thanks in advance  Allan,  ) There are several parts to this question: D - It is unclear from your posting what are the actual changes in the network. The details DO matter. E - Generally, when something like this happens, the change affects the ? LAN as a whole, not the LAN within the computer room. Thus, the 4 location of your terminal servers is very important.A - In the worst case, the banning of ALL non-IP protocols from the C entire network, this is a problem even more severe -- Cluster (SCS) E traffic would similarly be blocked. However, this is rarely the case. A As noted above, this type of change generally affects the network F outside of the computer room. You will have an issue, however, if your? cluster nodes communicate are located in different parts of the F building and communicate over the general LAN (which is a bad idea for other reasons). D - DECnet is routable. The problem is that many routers only route IPC (although you can use the DECnet-over-IP support to comply with the + edict without affecting your use of DECnet. C - LAT is non-routable. If your DECserver 200s use the common LAN to E communicate, that will be a problem. Shifting to TELNET is the common > solution, but that will involve costs. If your users are usingG terminals, you will need to obtain TCP/IP terminal servers. If they are @ using PCs, most of the terminal emulators can also speak TELNET.  ! I hope that the above is helpful. $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com >  > Allan Hathaway   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:05:19 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> . Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing8 Message-ID: <521fv0h981sec2t2s3j9abl2f3k1hhhv2l@4ax.com>  I On 26 Jan 2005 03:21:52 -0800, alanhathway@gmx.de (Allan Hathaway) wrote:   F >We are using a cluster plus a further OpenVMS computer, at the momentE >with DECNET and LAT switched on. In the future we have been told, we E >will not be able to use DECNET (because of changes to the networking ? >cabling in the company - something to do with DECNET cannot do 
 >routing).  * [I assume your cluster is Ethernet-based.]  H The primary cluster communications protocol, SCS, cannot be routed.  So,F between your cluster nodes, you must have what is effectively a singleA network segment.  There may be bridges or repeaters, or it may be J implemented as a VLAN on a larger switch, but it should appear as a singleD segment.  Within that LAN, you ought to be able to run any protocol,I including Decnet and LAT and MOP (for your Decservers).  However, this is K the area where network "managers" tend to get territorial.  Some don't want L to see any Decnet packets anywhere, even if there isn't a single requirementE to route any of them.  If this is your situation, and your cluster is * important to your company, then complain !  J If your single VMS node, terminal servers, or printers are not on the sameK LAN, then yes you will have to switch to tcp/ip for all communications.  Of I course, you will need Telnet-capable terminal servers too.  Your question G about load-balancing isn't specific - if you refer to those elements of J activity between the cluster nodes, then this should be communicated usingG SCS, but if you mean the load rating that appears on Decservers, then I I imagine that will be lost, as it is part of the LAT service announcements B that are regularly broadcast, unless there is a Telnet equivalent.   --  2 Just a fake guitar player in the Monkees of life.    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:00:49 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) . Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-BalancingL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2601050700470001@user-105n8vg.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <77ad1693.0501260321.58abdbd6@posting.google.com>, * alanhathway@gmx.de (Allan Hathaway) wrote:   >Hallo!  > F >We are using a cluster plus a further OpenVMS computer, at the momentE >with DECNET and LAT switched on. In the future we have been told, we E >will not be able to use DECNET (because of changes to the networking ? >cabling in the company - something to do with DECNET cannot do 
 >routing).  ? DECnet can be routed, if your routers know the DECnet protocol.   J DECnet-plus lets you use TCP/IP as the underlying network transport.  Then? your routers only need to implement TCP/IP, and all your DECnet E applications will continue to work.  The network people will only see  TCP/IP traffic.    LAT is a non-routable protocol.   ) >What consequences will that have for us? B >1. Is it true, that I then cannot use LAT but must use TCP/IP and" >TELNET for all interactive users?  6 SET HOST will work if DECnet-over-TCPIP is configured.   D >2. I cannot copy between the cluster and the other OpenVMS computer. >with $COPY - I will have to use FTP. Correct?  2 COPY will work if DECnet-over-TCPIP is configured.  = >3. All Printers with LATSYM must be changed to TELNET-Queues   N LAT queues will work if there's no router between your system and the printer.  E >4. Various Devices eg. DECServer 200 will not work any more, because % >they need to download their software   H These are likely using the MOP protocol for downloads, not LAT.  Depends* on how the network routers are configured.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 13:13:00 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk. Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing) Message-ID: <ct850s$s8n$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   i In article <77ad1693.0501260321.58abdbd6@posting.google.com>, alanhathway@gmx.de (Allan Hathaway) writes:  >Hallo!  > F >We are using a cluster plus a further OpenVMS computer, at the momentE >with DECNET and LAT switched on. In the future we have been told, we E >will not be able to use DECNET (because of changes to the networking ? >cabling in the company - something to do with DECNET cannot do 
 >routing). > ) >What consequences will that have for us? B >1. Is it true, that I then cannot use LAT but must use TCP/IP and" >TELNET for all interactive users?K LAT is a non-routed protocol. It will work on a bridged netork but not on a  routed network. N Hence if your network people are turning off bridging between where your usersM are and the systems (or between the terminal servers your users are using and M the systems) then you will have to move over to using TCPIP protocols such as  Telnet or SSH.    D >2. I cannot copy between the cluster and the other OpenVMS computer. >with $COPY - I will have to use FTP. Correct?  * You can use the COPY command with FTP see    HELP COPY/FTP   J However this is just a nice interface to the underlying FTP file transfer.  E DECNET is a Routed protocol and lots of routers could support DECNET  L but it is/was usually an extra cost item and network people seem to want to 1 simplify their networks by only supporting TCPIP. N (This simplification of networks so they only support TCPIP has been going on M so long now that it is possible many router manufacturers may now have pulled  DECNET support).  G If your network people are no longer supporting DECNET on their routers # you could tunnel DECNET over TCPIP.   ! There are two ways of doing this    . 1) DECNET Phase V - supports DECNET over TCPIP  L 2) DECNET Phase IV can be used over IP with Multinet or TCPWare TCPIP stacks
 from Process.       = >3. All Printers with LATSYM must be changed to TELNET-Queues   K If they or the terminal servers they are connected to are not on a network  L segment bridged to (or the same network segment as) the systems the printer K queue is defined on then you will have to change over to using TCPIP based   queues.         E >4. Various Devices eg. DECServer 200 will not work any more, because % >they need to download their software   J Any old DECNet server such as the Decserver 200 which can only use MOP to M load it's software will no longer be able to load it if it is not on the same N network segment as (or a segment bridged to) the system supplying the software image.  O More modern decservers can either load the image using bootp/tftp or have it in  flash.    # >5. What happens to Load-Balancing?  >Anything else?  >Thanks in advance  D For TCPIP access to the cluster you can setup a TCPIP cluster alias.M For DEC TCPIP services this can provide real load-balancing by making use of  L metric servers running on each system, a load broker process and dynamically updating DNS servers. N (this can be a little bit confusing since there are 3 different types of TCPIPN cluster aliases which can be setup :  failover cluster alias, round-robin DNS  and loadbalancing).             
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >  >Allan Hathaway    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 08:41:10 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) . Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing3 Message-ID: <G4abaLwkqsSv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <77ad1693.0501260321.58abdbd6@posting.google.com>, alanhathway@gmx.de (Allan Hathaway) writes:   G > We are using a cluster plus a further OpenVMS computer, at the moment F > with DECNET and LAT switched on. In the future we have been told, weF > will not be able to use DECNET (because of changes to the networking@ > cabling in the company - something to do with DECNET cannot do > routing).   A DECnet can certainly be routed.  If some other department of your A company has chosen to buy a router than cannot route DECnet, they ' have done your department a disservice.   * > What consequences will that have for us?C > 1. Is it true, that I then cannot use LAT but must use TCP/IP and # > TELNET for all interactive users?   D You can use either the DECnet-over-IP feature of HP's TCPIP product,G or (possibly with any IP stack) the Process Software DECnet/IP product.   E > 2. I cannot copy between the cluster and the other OpenVMS computer / > with $COPY - I will have to use FTP. Correct?   ) Not if you run DECnet as described above.   > > 3. All Printers with LATSYM must be changed to TELNET-Queues  = LAT (which is not part of DECnet) is not a routable protocol.   F > 4. Various Devices eg. DECServer 200 will not work any more, because& > they need to download their software   MOP is not a routable protocol.   $ > 5. What happens to Load-Balancing?  & You might have to plan an alternative.   > Anything else?  G You need to figure out how the wiring department got to run the company G rather than to serve the departments that use the wiring.  If I were in H that position, I would suggest that your department get to run their ownI wiring because the wiring department is not serving your needs.  That may H not be a practical solution, but it should get the conversation started.  H If you do end up having to make changes, be sure your time and materials$ are billed to the wiring department.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 08:35:34 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing3 Message-ID: <dWIp0xnYXb5f@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <77ad1693.0501260321.58abdbd6@posting.google.com>, alanhathway@gmx.de (Allan Hathaway) writes:  > Hallo! > G > We are using a cluster plus a further OpenVMS computer, at the moment F > with DECNET and LAT switched on. In the future we have been told, weF > will not be able to use DECNET (because of changes to the networking@ > cabling in the company - something to do with DECNET cannot do > routing).   B    DECnet most certainly can do routing, but your network gods mayC    turn it off at their routers.  MOP, LAT, and VMSCluster are not  C    routeable, and are not DECnet, although they are often confused  G    with DECnet.  If your network gurus don't believe that, you can look ?    in the networking documents and show them that they all have C    different ethernet protocol numbers.  DECnet also runs over wide "    area transports, not just LANs.  * > What consequences will that have for us?C > 1. Is it true, that I then cannot use LAT but must use TCP/IP and # > TELNET for all interactive users?   @    TCP/IP, DECnet, any other routable protocol that your network%    will route and you have installed.   E > 2. I cannot copy between the cluster and the other OpenVMS computer / > with $COPY - I will have to use FTP. Correct?   C    There is copy/ftp if you have a not terribly old version of VMS.   > > 3. All Printers with LATSYM must be changed to TELNET-Queues      Something like that.   F > 4. Various Devices eg. DECServer 200 will not work any more, because& > they need to download their software  G    The DECServer uses MOP for download and LAT for communications, both     of which are not routable.   $ > 5. What happens to Load-Balancing?  6    IIRC some IP stacks for VMS support load balancing.  F    We have a similar situation.  Our routers route only IP.  We simplyF    put all our VMS systems and DECservers on the same segment so that J    we can use non-routable protocols, and routeable protocols that aren't     being routed.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 08:36:56 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing3 Message-ID: <TTd$oHD0rMoM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <77ad1693.0501260321.58abdbd6@posting.google.com>, alanhathway@gmx.de (Allan Hathaway) writes:    > Anything else?  A    If you can get the network folks to keep IP port 700 open, you D    can do DECnet over IP.  That looks like IP to them and is managed'    as IP, but on both ends it's DECnet.   1    That doesn't work for LAT, MOP, or VMSCluster.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:23:13 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk. Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing) Message-ID: <ct8cl1$176$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   q In article <TTd$oHD0rMoM@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: j >In article <77ad1693.0501260321.58abdbd6@posting.google.com>, alanhathway@gmx.de (Allan Hathaway) writes: >  >> Anything else?  > B >   If you can get the network folks to keep IP port 700 open, youE >   can do DECnet over IP.  That looks like IP to them and is managed ( >   as IP, but on both ends it's DECnet. > 2 >   That doesn't work for LAT, MOP, or VMSCluster. >   @ For DECNET Phase V over TCPIP the ports are TCP 102  and TCP 399  
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:49:34 +0000 (UTC) - From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) . Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing. Message-ID: <ct8e6e$5h1$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   alanhathway@gmx.de (Allan Hathaway) writes in article <77ad1693.0501260321.58abdbd6@posting.google.com> dated 26 Jan 2005 03:21:52 -0800: D >2. I cannot copy between the cluster and the other OpenVMS computer. >with $COPY - I will have to use FTP. Correct?   I would suggest NFS for this.   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:35:32 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> . Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing, Message-ID: <41F7D4E4.1050706@tsoft-inc.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:   I really like this one.     I > You need to figure out how the wiring department got to run the company I > rather than to serve the departments that use the wiring.  If I were in J > that position, I would suggest that your department get to run their ownK > wiring because the wiring department is not serving your needs.  That may J > not be a practical solution, but it should get the conversation started. > J > If you do end up having to make changes, be sure your time and materials& > are billed to the wiring department. >     J Some of this really depends upon how important the VMS systems are to the N company, and how big a user of the entire network the VMS users are.  If it's O significant, maybe you need to take over that part, or all, of the networking.  N Then your company could see some cost savings, as the 'network gods' would be # redundant, and could be fired.  :-)    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:29:46 +0100 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia B Message-ID: <41f754fb$0$17600$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Keith Cayemberg wrote: > + >>*OS Name*                       _OpenVMS_  > ? > I woudl put in  "VMS" since this is what it was created as.   D OpenVMS is the name already being used in Wiki, and it has it'S own I definition as well. Although I also have a distaste for how the name was  G played with for marketing purposes, and the confusion it has caused, I  A am thankfull for it when I'm looking in the internet for OpenVMS  I products. VMS has over a dozen other meanings such as Vehicle Management  / System, JAVA VMs, and Vessel Monitoring System. L http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=VMS&Find=FindP http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=OpenVMS&Find=FindD Therefore I encourage the use of the silent "Open" in written form, 0 especially for documents visable in the Intenet.   > ? >>   Arch. support(first,                 _VAX_,_Alpha_,_IA64_, 5 >>   primary platform)            CHARON-VAX Emulator  >  > I > Since VMS does not run on an 8086, is the CHARON product (and you might 3 > also include SIMH) really supposed to be there ?  4 CHARON-VAX is a fully HP-supported OpenVMS platform.> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html$ I see it as an alternative Platform.  ; > It emulated a VAX and VMS thinks it is running on a VAX.  ; In this sense CHARON-VAX isn't an alternative Architecture.   G > Does the Windows entry include all the chips for which there are 8086 H > emulators ? (including VAX which had the insignia solutions emulator).D That is a good argument for not including Emulators. The CHARON-VAX E entry is probably not in the spirit of the attributes intended to be  	 compared.    >  > A >>   Graphics software and        Executive, Supervisor, or User- @ >>   capabilites                  mode program:_X Window System_ >  > ( > Shouldn't motif 1.2 be added to this ? OK >  > ' >>   Default desktop environment  _CDE_  > 0 > Can you add "or DECwindows Session Manager" ?  OK >  > 2 >>   Default window manager       DECW$MWM _Motif_ > G > Motif isn't a window manager. MWM is a window manager that happens to  > come with Motif. OK   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:37:54 +0000 (UTC) 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia 1 Message-ID: <newscache$6b1xai$u1p1$1@news.sil.at>   \ In article <41F71A2C.17C3202B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >Keith Cayemberg wrote: , >> *OS Name*                       _OpenVMS_ > > >I woudl put in  "VMS" since this is what it was created as.     All names should be there.8 "VAX/VMS", "OpenVMS VAX", "OpenVMS Alpha", "OpenVMS I64"' Maybe even the codename (STAR) thingie.   @ >>    Arch. support(first,                 _VAX_,_Alpha_,_IA64_,6 >>    primary platform)            CHARON-VAX Emulator > H >Since VMS does not run on an 8086, is the CHARON product (and you mightG >also include SIMH) really supposed to be there ? It emulated a VAX and # >VMS thinks it is running on a VAX.  > F >Does the Windows entry include all the chips for which there are 8086G >emulators ? (including VAX which had the insignia solutions emulator).    This is a marketing problem.- Should it be correct or should it look good ?  What do others list ? & If emulators are listed, add them all.  B >>    Graphics software and        Executive, Supervisor, or User-A >>    capabilites                  mode program:_X Window System_  > ' >Shouldn't motif 1.2 be added to this ?  > ( >>    Default desktop environment  _CDE_ > / >Can you add "or Decwindows Seesion manager" ?     Both should be listed.F But I think it should be named "DECwindows-MOTIF" not session manager.  3 >>    Default window manager       DECW$MWM _Motif_  > F >Motif isn't a window manager. MWM is a window manager that happens to >come with Motif.   O And MWM isn't the default either. If CDE is default, then DTWM is also default.    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 10:01:16 +0100 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia @ Message-ID: <41f75c5e$0$804$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:  ^ > In article <41F71A2C.17C3202B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >  >>Keith Cayemberg wrote: >>, >>>*OS Name*                       _OpenVMS_ >>? >>I woudl put in  "VMS" since this is what it was created as.    >  >  > All names should be there.: > "VAX/VMS", "OpenVMS VAX", "OpenVMS Alpha", "OpenVMS I64") > Maybe even the codename (STAR) thingie. ( See my stand on this in another posting. >  > @ >>>   Arch. support(first,                 _VAX_,_Alpha_,_IA64_,6 >>>   primary platform)            CHARON-VAX Emulator >>I >>Since VMS does not run on an 8086, is the CHARON product (and you might H >>also include SIMH) really supposed to be there ? It emulated a VAX and$ >>VMS thinks it is running on a VAX. >>G >>Does the Windows entry include all the chips for which there are 8086 H >>emulators ? (including VAX which had the insignia solutions emulator). >  >  > This is a marketing problem./ > Should it be correct or should it look good ?  > What do others list ? ( > If emulators are listed, add them all. Emulators are not listed.  >  > B >>>   Graphics software and        Executive, Supervisor, or User-A >>>   capabilites                  mode program:_X Window System_  >>( >>Shouldn't motif 1.2 be added to this ? >> >>( >>>   Default desktop environment  _CDE_ >>0 >>Can you add "or Decwindows Seesion manager" ?  >  >  > Both should be listed.H > But I think it should be named "DECwindows-MOTIF" not session manager. OK >  > 3 >>>   Default window manager       DECW$MWM _Motif_  >>G >>Motif isn't a window manager. MWM is a window manager that happens to  >>come with Motif. >  > Q > And MWM isn't the default either. If CDE is default, then DTWM is also default.  >  OK   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 04:06:51 -0800) From: "Bob Gezelter" <gezelter@rlgsc.com> 9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipediadC Message-ID: <1106741211.003143.236990@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>F   Peter,   My US$0.02.E  F The name should be "OpenVMS; fka VAX/VMS". My recollection is that theF actual release date was 1977 (have to check the Anniversary book or my7 notes from my To Be Published book chapter on OpenVMS). $ - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 05:35:47 -0800L# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipediaL( Message-ID: <opsk7pdxolzgicya@hyrrokkin>  G On 26 Jan 2005 04:06:51 -0800, Bob Gezelter <gezelter@rlgsc.com> wrote:T   > Peter, > 
 > My US$0.02.E >TH > The name should be "OpenVMS; fka VAX/VMS". My recollection is that theH > actual release date was 1977 (have to check the Anniversary book or my9 > notes from my To Be Published book chapter on OpenVMS).d& > - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com >wG If you really want to market the product, it needs an image makeover,  n starting; with a new name.  Let's call it E-Series, for Enterprise:-)      -- dC Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:45:20 +0100Q0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia B Message-ID: <41f7ad00$0$17616$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   Keith Cayemberg wrote:" > Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > 9 >> In article <41F71A2C.17C3202B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei  ) >> <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:A >> >>> Keith Cayemberg wrote: >>>e. >>>> *OS Name*                       _OpenVMS_ >>>s >>>fA >>> I woudl put in  "VMS" since this is what it was created as.  s >> >> >> >> All names should be there.F; >> "VAX/VMS", "OpenVMS VAX", "OpenVMS Alpha", "OpenVMS I64"H* >> Maybe even the codename (STAR) thingie. > * > See my stand on this in another posting.2 I thought about this some more. How about using...  =   *OS Name*                       _OpenVMS_ (fka _VAX_/_VMS_)p  G where both links go to the same page. The idea being to reinforce that t. they are both the same OS. The principal is...   	OpenVMS is VMS is VMS  G By adding VMS in parenthesis, it is acknowledged as the original name, iA without necessarily giving the impression they are separate OS's.vE As for listing the various Architectures, this is done under another -H heading. The other OS's are also not listing all their platforms as the  name of their OS.o  F Thanks for the comment Bob G.; Yes, I saw your posting and added your % suggestion before sending this Email.    >  >> >>A >>>>   Arch. support(first,                 _VAX_,_Alpha_,_IA64_,c7 >>>>   primary platform)            CHARON-VAX Emulatori >>>  >>> K >>> Since VMS does not run on an 8086, is the CHARON product (and you might J >>> also include SIMH) really supposed to be there ? It emulated a VAX and& >>> VMS thinks it is running on a VAX. >>>VI >>> Does the Windows entry include all the chips for which there are 8086VJ >>> emulators ? (including VAX which had the insignia solutions emulator). >> >> >> >> This is a marketing problem. 0 >> Should it be correct or should it look good ? >> What do others list ?) >> If emulators are listed, add them all.e >  > Emulators are not listed.- For this heading I now have...  :     Arch. support(first,             _VAX_,_Alpha_,_IA64_,     primary platform)d   >  >> >>C >>>>   Graphics software and        Executive, Supervisor, or User-cB >>>>   capabilites                  mode program:_X Window System_ >>>  >>> * >>> Shouldn't motif 1.2 be added to this ? For this heading I now have...  @     Graphics software and        Executive, Supervisor, or User-@     capabilities                  mode program:_X Window System_ 				_MOTIF_      >>>e >>> ) >>>>   Default desktop environment  _CDE_e >>>  >>>02 >>> Can you add "or Decwindows Seesion manager" ?  >> >> >> >> Both should be listed.vI >> But I think it should be named "DECwindows-MOTIF" not session manager.n >  > OK For this heading I now have...  9     Default desktop environment  _CDE_ DECwindows-_MOTIF_f   >  >> >>4 >>>>   Default window manager       DECW$MWM _Motif_ >>>l >>>tI >>> Motif isn't a window manager. MWM is a window manager that happens tos >>> come with Motif. >> >> >>J >> And MWM isn't the default either. If CDE is default, then DTWM is also  >> default.t >> > OK For this heading I now have...  A     Default window manager	_DTWM_ (for _CDE_) _MWM_ (for _MOTIF_)o   I keep both as Solaris did.o   I have the DTWM Link as...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twm   I have the MWM Link as...o+ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_manager     , I'm also considering a couple other changes.  '    Default online			http://www1.sqp.com'*    OS update tool			http://www.itrc.hp.com       Kernel type				4-Layered-Ring" 					modular-subsystem _RT_ Kernel  : I'm not satisfied with the taxonomy provided on Wiki at...: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_%28computer_science%29  C It ignores "Layered" kernels as represented by the "THE" operating 0H system, and the Ring variant which is represented by MULTICS and others,H of which OpenVMS is a further evolution of those which rationalizes the F number of rings to a practical number with each ring having a purpose  for protecting the...a  H Kernel Code from (potentially third-party) Executive services (built on H top of system services), which in turn is protected from the Supervisor J   mode Shell or CLI Services, which is also protected from User Mode code.  G The "modular subsystem" references the traditional view of the OpenVMS  C Kernel as consisting of In Memory System Structures in the center, oG surrounded by three subsystems; Memory, I/O, and Process (actually now  G thread) Management/Scheduling. A Class Scheduler could for instance be e< configured to replace the standard priority-based scheduler.  G And we all know the OpenVMS kernel provides a true hard priority-based pA interrupt real-time kernel. I once read that MCI had developed a rI fantastic kernel-mode real-time memory-resident switching database using !H the VMS Kernel in the 1980's, they said it was "blazing-saddles" faster A than anything else you could develop or buy at the time short of E bringing in a Cray.f   Cheers!.   Keith CayembergS   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 10:44:59 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipediai, Message-ID: <tYadnS3ex5ZhJ2rcRVn-pg@igs.net>   Keith Cayemberg wrote: > Peter Sjoberg wrote: >> I'm missing one great OS onE >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_operating_systems is ito >> anyone who like to add it?  >> >>G >> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet F >> News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in theG >> World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total  >> Privacy via Encryption =--- >  >cH > Regardless of who makes the update to Wiki, I would suggest we discussD > in COV what the correct entries to the Tables should be. To get us@ > started, I've taken a first crack at filling out the tables... >aF > (please first examine the current Wiki page to better understand theC > tables; Hyperlinks to other existing Wiki entries are underlined)p >e >o > *OS Name* _OpenVMS_o >  > *General*e >r, >    Creator _Digital Equipment Corporation_ >r >e0 >    First public release date _February_ _1978_ >- >- >    Predecessor _RSX-11M_ >6 >n) >    Stable version 8.2 (current release). >(1 >    Cost (US Dollars) Free for noncommercial useB >n >g0 >    Preferred License _Hobbyist_, _Proprietary_ >o >e5 >    Target Audience Server,Enthusiast,Secure Domain,e& > _WS_,_TS_,_RT_,_PC_,_DCS_,MC,DT,_TP_# > _Batch_,Fully-Shared _Clustering_u    I Just what do you means by 'secure domain'?  Are you thinking C & B -levelt$ Orange Book or is it something else?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:04:50 +0100 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>D Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia - SecurityB Message-ID: <41f7cdb2$0$17605$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   John Smith wrote:- >>5 >>   Target Audience Server,Enthusiast,Secure Domain,T& >>_WS_,_TS_,_RT_,_PC_,_DCS_,MC,DT,_TP_# >>_Batch_,Fully-Shared _Clustering_l >  >  > K > Just what do you means by 'secure domain'?  Are you thinking C & B -levela& > Orange Book or is it something else? >  >   E I'm purposely not being more precise. OpenVMS is in fact used in the  G security domains (officially B1 LABELED SECURITY PROTECTION rated with CB SEVMS or native C2 CONTROLLED ACCESS PROTECTION rated) of several G governments. I have also read discussions indicating that the security  G design was originally intended to provide the basis for an A1 VERIFIED  F DESIGN security rating (after adding a few more security functions in H addition to the MAC) but the certification was not pursued further when H it was decided that the market wasn't big enough to justify the effort. E OpenVMS Clusters are also the only C2 certified fully shared cluster tC solution. So I think there is more than enough reason to justify a i" "Security Domain" Target Audience.   An A1 Reference...@ (interesting how the Multicians are informed about VMS Security)L http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=3C07B110.9060905@multicians.org&oe=UTF-8  $ New Security Features in OpenVMS 8.26 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/security.html#baseos    G Here are some more relevant URL's concerning OpenVMS' current security   certification status:a  $ OpenVMS V6.1 VAX and Alpha C2 RatingA http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/entries/CSC-EPL-93-002-B.htmln  2 Security Enhanced VMS V6.1 VAX and Alpha B1 RatingA http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/entries/CSC-EPL-93-003-B.html   6 TPEP - Evaluated Products List (EPL) Indexed by Vendor: http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/epl-by-vendor.html#DEC  6 TPEP - Evaluated Products List (EPL) Indexed by Rating5 http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/epl-by-class.htmle  / TPEP - Historical Evaluated Products List (EPL)o3 http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/historical.htmlo  > SAC-TAC Resource Clearinghouse - MLS Operating System Products4 http://www.acsac.org/sac-tac/res-vendors-mls-os.html   	r HP OpenVMS Security - Homepage/ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/security.htmlc  3 OpenVMS compliance with HIPAA security requirementsr9 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/healthcare/hipaa.htmla  3 OpenVMS Compliance with HIPAA Security Requirements H http://itpapers.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?scid=260&sortby=comp&docid=12198     Cheers!    Keiths   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:17:02 -0500t# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>LD Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia - Security, Message-ID: <VdydnZWkvZMNTWrcRVn-vw@igs.net>   Keith Cayemberg wrote: > John Smith wrote:  >>>m6 >>>   Target Audience Server,Enthusiast,Secure Domain,( >>> _WS_,_TS_,_RT_,_PC_,_DCS_,MC,DT,_TP_% >>> _Batch_,Fully-Shared _Clustering_l >> >> >>E >> Just what do you means by 'secure domain'?  Are you thinking C & B0. >> -level Orange Book or is it something else? >> >> >cF > I'm purposely not being more precise. OpenVMS is in fact used in theH > security domains (officially B1 LABELED SECURITY PROTECTION rated withC > SEVMS or native C2 CONTROLLED ACCESS PROTECTION rated) of severalhH > governments. I have also read discussions indicating that the securityH > design was originally intended to provide the basis for an A1 VERIFIEDG > DESIGN security rating (after adding a few more security functions in D > addition to the MAC) but the certification was not pursued furtherF > when it was decided that the market wasn't big enough to justify theF > effort. OpenVMS Clusters are also the only C2 certified fully sharedB > cluster solution. So I think there is more than enough reason to. > justify a "Security Domain" Target Audience. >w > An A1 Reference...B > (interesting how the Multicians are informed about VMS Security) >nL http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=3C07B110.9060905@multicians.org&oe=UTF-8 > & > New Security Features in OpenVMS 8.28 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/security.html#baseos >c > H > Here are some more relevant URL's concerning OpenVMS' current security > certification status:s >a& > OpenVMS V6.1 VAX and Alpha C2 RatingC > http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/entries/CSC-EPL-93-002-B.htmle >r4 > Security Enhanced VMS V6.1 VAX and Alpha B1 RatingC > http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/entries/CSC-EPL-93-003-B.htmlo >i8 > TPEP - Evaluated Products List (EPL) Indexed by Vendor< > http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/epl-by-vendor.html#DEC >l8 > TPEP - Evaluated Products List (EPL) Indexed by Rating7 > http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/epl-by-class.htmla >a1 > TPEP - Historical Evaluated Products List (EPL)h5 > http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/historical.htmln >e@ > SAC-TAC Resource Clearinghouse - MLS Operating System Products6 > http://www.acsac.org/sac-tac/res-vendors-mls-os.html >   > HP OpenVMS Security - Homepage1 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/security.html  >,5 > OpenVMS compliance with HIPAA security requirementsd; > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/healthcare/hipaa.htmlo >B5 > OpenVMS Compliance with HIPAA Security Requirements-J > http://itpapers.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?scid=260&sortby=comp&docid=12198     Keith,  J Sometimes I think you have more knowledge at your fingertips than Google &G Wikipedia combined, and an mildly disturbing penchant for organization.N :-)d   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:18:07 +0000 (UTC)D< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question) Message-ID: <ct7u9f$62t$1@news.BelWue.DE>o  _ In article <5nxJd.6532$mv4.3353@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:n >eK >There are two types of KVM switches - dumb pass-thru and "smart" switches.oJ >The dumb ones simply pass the data through with little intellegence.  TheH >only thing that they need to do at least for VMS is to cause a power upE >sequence to be generated when the KB is connected.  This way we willeK >reprogram the KB automatically.  The smart ones actually have a uProc thatwJ >handles the KB and then emulates a KB on the other side.  These keyboardsK >need to either know about the extended codes - or at least be smart enoughFM >to pass them through.  In the worst case, these KVMs handle USB as well, andrL >then they need to know how to turn the extendd PS2 codes into the right USB >codes.   G Interesting. So I would like to get an explanation for the phenomenon IE" experience with our Rose switches:O 1) Extended keyboards like my LK411-AG connected to the switch work as expectedPL    in "mode 3" with any Alpha so far. The same is true for a 3-button mouse.K 2) But after a reboot of the Alpha the keyboard is recognized by OpenVMS as M    one of these PC keyboards (only 15 function keys. As soon as I plug a realoJ    keyboard into the Alpha, type a compose character and reconnect the KVM$    switch all is working fine again.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanna   --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452c  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot dew  D-79011  Freiburg, GermanyD9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmlh   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:34:01 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question1 Message-ID: <tTNJd.6603$wy5.240@news.cpqcorp.net>v  H The "default" is a PC-style KB.  To get the driver to handle the KB as a LK411 J there is an obscure handshake where the driver sends certain commands thatJ will return "error" characters on a standard KB, and return something else on< an LK411 (the LK450 has a subtle variation on this as well).  E Plugging in a KB (and it's powerup) causes the KB to send 0xAA to then system,eJ which causes the driver to start this handshake.  The generic problem withH pass-thru switches is that the power up only gets sent to one system (or none,TK if the KVM is supplying power all the time).  VMS will poll the KB when thee driverI is reset to force a powerup sequence as well.  But if no KB is there, thet sequence may never complete.t  J There is a solution, I suppose, which is to build a driver that can decode mode 2L keycodes, and that always expects a LK411.  But this driver would have to beJ forced to be loaded - since there would be no way to auto-detect it.  When thelC drivers were written, the expectation was that a KB would always bet	 attached.o    I "Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens> wrote in message # news:ct7u9f$62t$1@news.BelWue.DE...u< > In article <5nxJd.6532$mv4.3353@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"$ <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: > > C > >There are two types of KVM switches - dumb pass-thru and "smart" 	 switches.eL > >The dumb ones simply pass the data through with little intellegence.  TheJ > >only thing that they need to do at least for VMS is to cause a power upG > >sequence to be generated when the KB is connected.  This way we willPH > >reprogram the KB automatically.  The smart ones actually have a uProc thatL > >handles the KB and then emulates a KB on the other side.  These keyboardsF > >need to either know about the extended codes - or at least be smart enoughK > >to pass them through.  In the worst case, these KVMs handle USB as well,  andrJ > >then they need to know how to turn the extendd PS2 codes into the right USBe	 > >codes.n >tI > Interesting. So I would like to get an explanation for the phenomenon Ip$ > experience with our Rose switches:H > 1) Extended keyboards like my LK411-AG connected to the switch work as expectedG >    in "mode 3" with any Alpha so far. The same is true for a 3-button  mouse.J > 2) But after a reboot of the Alpha the keyboard is recognized by OpenVMS asJ >    one of these PC keyboards (only 15 function keys. As soon as I plug a realL >    keyboard into the Alpha, type a compose character and reconnect the KVM& >    switch all is working fine again. >a
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmanne >i > --  G >  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452- >  ImmunbiologieK >  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot del >  D-79011  Freiburg, GermanyD; >                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmlc   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:58:58 +0000 (UTC) < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question) Message-ID: <ct8eo2$oqv$1@news.BelWue.DE>A  ^ In article <tTNJd.6603$wy5.240@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:I >The "default" is a PC-style KB.  To get the driver to handle the KB as aEL >LK411 there is an obscure handshake where the driver sends certain commandsK >that will return "error" characters on a standard KB, and return somethingCE >else on an LK411 (the LK450 has a subtle variation on this as well).n  
 Ok, I see.  N >Plugging in a KB (and it's powerup) causes the KB to send 0xAA to the system,J >which causes the driver to start this handshake. The generic problem withI >pass-thru switches is that the power up only gets sent to one system (orc3 >none, if the KVM is supplying power all the time).y  3 In my case the KVM is supplying power all the time.   J >VMS will poll the KB when the driver is reset to force a powerup sequenceB >as well.  But if no KB is there, the sequence may never complete.  J So if I could tell the KVM to send 0xAA to the Alpha this should force the( Alpha to start the keyboard negotiation?  O Or is it possible to "tell" a LK411 to genereate 0xAA via some key combination?n   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanna   -- nE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452t  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot deh  D-79011  Freiburg, Germanyn9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmlu   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:59:55 GMTw* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question2 Message-ID: <f0QJd.6621$1D5.1911@news.cpqcorp.net>  I "Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens> wrote in message # news:ct8eo2$oqv$1@news.BelWue.DE...-; > In article <tTNJd.6603$wy5.240@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"6$ <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:   >vL > >VMS will poll the KB when the driver is reset to force a powerup sequenceD > >as well.  But if no KB is there, the sequence may never complete. >2L > So if I could tell the KVM to send 0xAA to the Alpha this should force the* > Alpha to start the keyboard negotiation? >   D Yes.  If the KVM, when switched sent an 0xAA sequence, life would be perfect.  D > Or is it possible to "tell" a LK411 to genereate 0xAA via some key combination? >   L Not that I know of.  Hot-plugging the KB is the only standard way I know of. A  server reset also will do it.r   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 12:34:38 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA 3 Message-ID: <NbhXQ4F0+r4F@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  q In article <MBqy4thL5Tl1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:mG >    And let's not forget the almighty MicroVAX II with it's TK50 drive ? >    on permanent display downtown in the Air and Space Museum.    I missed that. Where is it?u  J And I WAS looking for it, cuz when I was there 15 years earlier, it had anJ OUT OF ORDER sign on it. If I ever dig through all my old FILM, I probably took a picture of it.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"e& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdffL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  I         You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself akC         reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go aboutDI         repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in thec7         struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:49:40 -0700a% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>oA Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USAeA Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050126114651.02a22f20@raptor.psccos.com>o  ( At 11:34 AM 1/26/2005, Bob Kaplow wrote:5 >In article <MBqy4thL5Tl1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2> >koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:I > >    And let's not forget the almighty MicroVAX II with it's TK50 driveDA > >    on permanent display downtown in the Air and Space Museum.0 >2 >I missed that. Where is it? >>K >And I WAS looking for it, cuz when I was there 15 years earlier, it had anoK >OUT OF ORDER sign on it. If I ever dig through all my old FILM, I probablyo >took a picture of it.  E Tell you what: the one item I really wanted was the solid cherry RL01 J drive that used to be in the lobby of CX01 (Colorado Springs) in the earlyI 1980's.  The whole drive cabinet was beautifully-finished cherry wood.  I2H was told it was the (or an) original prototype of the drive, but I don't= know how true that was.  You ought to remember that one, Bob!.   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 10:17:19 -0800 From: tadamsmar@yahoo.comr& Subject: General mount/shadow command?B Message-ID: <1106763439.812684.98940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  ) Up till now all my systems have had disksw named DKA0 AND DKA100.  & But we now have some systems with DKB0$ and DKB100, and I need to generalize! my command procedures and written ! procedures.  I prefer to have all3! the command procedures on all thee$ systems to be the same, if possible.  # These are used to form a shadowset.   % I was wondering if there is a generici way to refer to these disks in   the MOUNT/SHADOW= command.   I know thati  
 mount dka0 sxe  " will allow me to refer to disk$sx,! but I typically don't issue mounte commands for these disks.-   If there is no better way, I! can check f$device(*dkb0:) to seee  if it returns a null string, and" issued different commands based on this.g   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 10:31:13 -0800$ From: "ugex" <edgar_ulloa@yahoo.com>* Subject: Re: General mount/shadow command?C Message-ID: <1106764273.057390.162450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>t   I tadams  9 Try to create a mirror set and probably fix your problem.    any commands :  C $mount logical_name:/shadow=(mount_disk:,online disk) lebel/confirmn   example:& if you in cluster dont forget /cluster  > $mount/cluster dsa10:/shadow=($1$dka0:,$2$dka0:) data1/confirm Regardsv     Edgar    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 10:26:23 -0500m? From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net>VF Subject: Re: Help configuring RAID with HP SmartArray 5300A controller9 Message-ID: <7sOJd.13637$ky2.8789@bignews4.bellsouth.net>    1)   >>>set heap_expand 2MB >>>initt     2)   >>>set boot_bios pyaol >>>inite   That should do the trick   -- '0 ________________________________________________ David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Mobile: 912 447 6622 X251: Fax: 912 201 0402o Email: dbturner@icusc.comi Web: http://www.islandco.com0 ________________________________________________% <ropegun1@yahoo.com> wrote in message = news:1106663598.252966.216370@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...u > Hello alliH > I am trying to figure out how to setup a RAID configuration on a DS20EE > server with a 4 disk internal disk bank.  This is a new system with F > nothing on it.  I am able to do a basic configuration using the ORCA > utility from the console.cH > My question is to end up with a system disk and a user disk in OpenVMSG > 7.3-2 what is the best approach.  I want to utilize the redundancy ofeE > the array on the user disk and system disk.  Do I need to create onrH > array with all 4 physical disks from ORCA and then create logical userE > and system disks after the OS install? I am reading about an ACU-XE G > utility that supposedly allows a browser type configuration is this aeH > possibility? I am a rookie on DEC hardware configuration so any advice > will be greatly appreciated.	 > Thanks,  > Heath Harber > Special Metals Corportationu > Huntington, Wv >c   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 08:26:05 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)V8 Subject: Re: LAT application port notification of events3 Message-ID: <kddoRS2o1Czd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <41F739A7.A3E74878@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > B > This would have been quite easy if I could find out what lock isF > requested when an application program tries to assign a channel to aG > serial device. (with a blocking AST, my app could then relinquish thehJ > port, let the user do the interactive stuff and have a request to relock0 > the port once it is fgreed by the user again).  F    It's not a lock.  The terminal driver has an attention AST from theD    JOBCONTROLLER.  If the driver gets unsolicited input while no oneB    is logged in, that AST tells JOBCONTROLLER to startup LOGINOUT.  D    If you have a program reading input from the terminal then you'reE    program will need some logic that says:  there is some input whichnF    means stop reading and deassign the channel.  Then the user can log    in.  G    Which makes writing a trojan horse on VMS difficult.  Other features-C    of VMS are designed to make it impossible for the non-privileged     user.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 04:39:47 -0800# From: "Jon Danzak" <danzak@sgi.net>-Y Subject: Looking for old version of VMS 5.x or newer version of VAX BASIS for OPtion ModuJC Message-ID: <1106743187.838811.201820@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>e  E I have a CD circa 1994 with the Option Module List. The only issue isM that is accessed via VAX BASIS.t    G We're doing some part numbering at work and I wanted to look at the oldpE Option Module list to see if there were any useful nomenclatures thatr would apply to our company.     D I booted my old VMS 7.1 system and the image said "version mismatch"G when I ran the VAX BASIS on the Option Module CD. Evidentaly it was notaE a simple text file but made searchable with BASIS. So I installed theaD oldest version of VMS that I had, V6.1, and it still was mismatched.1 My guess is that V5.x would work....or maybe 6.0.r    G Would anyone have a later version of VAX BASIS (and other items that go)E with it) or an older version of V5.x? I can restore a VMS save set tooA my old system etc. Or a version of BASIS? Or a PDF of a circa 90se( option module list (aka Dick Best) list?     Thanks, 
 Jon J. DanzakU ^--aka danzak sgi net / (figure out where the @ and . go above ) (grin)    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 08:31:48 -0800% From: dan.furse@gmail.com (Dan Furse)"" Subject: NFS Container file system= Message-ID: <2d68fe69.0501260831.74d7d379@posting.google.com>n   Hi,T  C I'm having a major problem with a UNIX container file system shared  via NFS.  D System is a DS10 running OVMS7.3-2. TCP/IP Services v5.4 with latest ECO.  E Following the instructions in TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS: ManagementtE (Section 22.9), I have created a UNIX container file system, exported  via NFS as /test.s  F The client is a linux box (known good with NFS, it mounts exports fromA other linux boxes and ordinary openvms exports OK). It mounts the-F container file system OK. I can ls and get a listing of whatever filesF are in there. I can even copy files from the linux box into the share.: However when I try to delete a file from the share, I get:  - rm: cannot unlink `afile': Input/output errorr  F And, since I'm running with reply/enable=net on the VMS console, I get" the following torrent of messages:  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  26-JAN-2005 16:20:39.44  %%%%%%%%%%%$ Message from user TCPIP$NFS on S03803 $GETATTR: THREAD 003F8000 RETURNING STATUS 0000002C   8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  26-JAN-2005 16:20:40.48  %%%%%%%%%%%% Message from user NFS Server on S0380v( Process 0001006D no longer an NFS server  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  26-JAN-2005 16:20:40.63  %%%%%%%%%%%# Message from user INTERnet on S0380_F INTERnet ACP Error during process startup, Nolisten Service Disabled -
 NFS Server  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  26-JAN-2005 16:20:40.63  %%%%%%%%%%%# Message from user INTERnet on S0380d" INTERnet ACP Deactivate NFS Server  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  26-JAN-2005 16:20:40.63  %%%%%%%%%%%# Message from user INTERnet on S0380iE INTERnet ACP AUXS error during process exit  Status = %SYSTEM-F-SHUT    E This happens everytime I try to delete a file. (I have to restart the   NFS server process obviously...)   I have the following proxies:f3 SYSTEM            OND             0           0   *o3 TCPIP$NOBODY      OND            -2          -2   *    the following maps: - /disk                                   DKA0:d2 /test                                   DKA0:[NFS]   and the following exports:) /disk/000000/thing                      * ) /test                                   *n  D Has anyone seen this sort of thing before? (Googling extensively for$ the last two days has not helped me)   Thanks, 	 Dan Furse  ipTEST Ltd.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:03:13 +0000 E From: Tim ffrench-Lynch <tim-DOT-ffrench-HYPHEN-lynch@baesystems.com> 8 Subject: NFS server software on a PC for access from VMS. Message-ID: <41F7CD51.AB3BBEF4@baesystems.com>  F I've been trying to get access set up from VMS via NFS to an NTFS diskC on a PC running Windows NT4. The job has been passed around severaliF computer support people and now the verdict is that Omni NFS Server is) never likely to work for access from VMS.e  C Can anyone suggest any PC NFS software that is known to work OK forr access from VMS?B Does anyone use Omni NFS server software on a PC successfully with access from VMS?  C The motive for using NFS to a PC is purely cheap storage space, the-E ability to drop a huge disk into a PC and then apply NTFS compressionL@ to all the files is very tempting. Do later versions of VMS have; anything analogous to the NTFS on-the-fly file compression?    Tim    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jan 2005 18:13:09 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: NFS server software on a PC for access from VMS, Message-ID: <35q4tlF4om92tU1@individual.net>  . In article <41F7CD51.AB3BBEF4@baesystems.com>,H 	Tim ffrench-Lynch <tim-DOT-ffrench-HYPHEN-lynch@baesystems.com> writes:H > I've been trying to get access set up from VMS via NFS to an NTFS diskE > on a PC running Windows NT4. The job has been passed around severalnH > computer support people and now the verdict is that Omni NFS Server is+ > never likely to work for access from VMS.- > E > Can anyone suggest any PC NFS software that is known to work OK fori > access from VMS?D > Does anyone use Omni NFS server software on a PC successfully with > access from VMS?  - Have you looked at Windows Services for Unix?    > E > The motive for using NFS to a PC is purely cheap storage space, the1G > ability to drop a huge disk into a PC and then apply NTFS compression B > to all the files is very tempting. Do later versions of VMS have= > anything analogous to the NTFS on-the-fly file compression?S  B Considering how cheap storage is, I really see no need for runningA compression.  I have never trusted it enough let windows compresseE my data. (And that goes all the way back to when Stacker was a third-a party product.)t   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 04:20:53 -0800& From: "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: PDFs for HP C docshC Message-ID: <1106742053.470042.288230@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>s   JF Mezei wrote:h >-5 > You need to specify whether you mean HP C or DEC C.r >a  E It doesn't seem to make any difference. Either way, all I can turn up C for the Language Reference Manual or Users Guide are HTML versions.a   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 04:23:05 -0800& From: "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: PDFs for HP C docsiC Message-ID: <1106742185.398438.295880@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>o   Z wrote: >i5 > See:  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/os73_index.htmle >IF > Some PDFs are available. I usually d/l from the links in the Version > 7.3-2 tab.  G As far as C reference material goes, this page only lists the C RuntimeiE Library manual. The Language Reference Manual and Users Guide are not>@ there. Where I can find these elsewhere on HP's site for the VMS! version of C is all HTML, no PDF.i   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 08:24:02 +0000 (UTC)-6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIP 1 Message-ID: <newscache$1o0xai$exo1$1@news.sil.at>   I In article <ZMBJd.95387$Jk5.81572@lakeread01>, k <kdog93@cox.net> writes:  >  >	$ telnet /port=6000 mylinuxS* >	%TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 192.168.1.26 >	%TELNET-E-CONNFAIL, Failed to connect to remote host >r >So, what is this about:  A It means, that on your Linux box the X11 server is not listening.oB At least not listening on this particular TCP port (6000) for your( particular source address (the VMS box).  G Check your Linux box for access restrictions (like a firewall software)tE or more likely for the TCP port the Linux X11 server is listening on.IJ Maybe it isn't listening at all or maybe it is listening on 6001, then youI need to use /SERVER=1 with your SET DISPLAY command on OpenVMS and so on.D   HIHw   -- a Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER_% Network and OpenVMS system specialistm E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 01:31:43 -0800 From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.ukw' Subject: Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIPTC Message-ID: <1106731903.100799.319500@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    >a > So, what is this about:p >eC >  > There is a known issue with connecting from recent releases ofi LINUX toA >  > the DECwindows server. I know it is an issue with the lateste	 releases,f@ >  > not sure about earlier ones. The problem is that the server
 provides aC >  > response to the initial connection message that is longer thann defined ; >  > in the protocol and now the LINUX client detects this./ >.? > Can you elaborate or point me to more definitive information.a Haven'tr# > found a clear solution on google.a >g  E Sorry, I know we have a recent case raised regarding this issue but IrB can't see the case to see more details. However, as you have LINUXD client to OpenVMS server working it sounds like you do not have this problem.  E As others say, it looks like a firewall or Linux server configurationeE issue. Have you tried using tcpip to connect to the linux server fromr# the same linux machine as a client?S   Martin Kirby   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 05:23:15 -0800m From: Z <Z@no.spam>i' Subject: Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIPo* Message-ID: <nTMJd.7964$EO7.3982@fe03.lga>   k wrote:! >     $ telnet /port=6000 mylinuxe. >     %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 192.168.1.2: >     %TELNET-E-CONNFAIL, Failed to connect to remote host  D There's your problem: the VMS system cannot connect to port 6000 on 2 mylinux. Once you resolve that you should be fine.  + You have a h/w or s/w obstacle in your way.   B Are you running iptables? Is there a router or other piece of h/w  between the two systems?   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 08:17:36 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o' Subject: Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIP 3 Message-ID: <vwVC9ZLSPvoW@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  I In article <ZMBJd.95387$Jk5.81572@lakeread01>, k <kdog93@cox.net> writes:m >  > 	% xhost + > 	% telnet myvmsC > 	... login ...      At this point try:i    $show display    $show users <yourself> /fulle  B    This is to see if some software is setting up a display for youF    for some reason (SSH must and will but ordinary TELNET shouldn't), G    and to see what node the network thinks you're coming from from the f    VMS system's point of view.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:42:17 +0000 (UTC)n- From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)e' Subject: Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIPy. Message-ID: <ct8doo$5h1$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  n k <kdog93@cox.net> writes in article <ZMBJd.95387$Jk5.81572@lakeread01> dated Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:47:52 -0500: >	$ telnet /port=6000 mylinuxe* >	%TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 192.168.1.26 >	%TELNET-E-CONNFAIL, Failed to connect to remote host  F At this point "our" job here on comp.os.vms is done.  You can probably7 reproduce the remaining problem with Linux alone now.  G   % export DISPLAY=mylinux:0.0 % xlogom  J Assuming that fails, you can consult the Linux experts in their newsgroups% without having to mention VMS at all.n  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 10:58:58 -0500r# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>_Y Subject: Re: Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is impu, Message-ID: <D8qdnaWteLrZI2rcRVn-qQ@igs.net>   C.W.Holeman II wrote:  > John Smith wrote:s > ' >> Thanks Kerry. Yes, I had seen those.  >>H >> I had suggested to HP that they take a few million dollars and hire aF >> small handful of under-employed talented VMS experienced developersH >> to port the top 3-5 open source apps still not ported in a variety ofF >> categories to VMS over the next year or so. Had the suggestion beenF >> acted upon when first suggested, there would have been more to crowE >> about at the webcast last Tuesday and in the plethora of trade rag F >> articles that appears at that time...."HP Serious about Open SourceG >> on VMS....hundreds of new apps available". An opportunity squanderedn, >> due to lack of vision or cojones or both. >E* > Here is an old post that seems relevant: >  >CK http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=hoffman+vms+sourceforge+compile+farm  > links to:n >a3 > "VMS system on the sourceforge.net Compile Farm?"d5 > "comp.os.vms - Feb 6 2002, 1:06 pm by Hoff Hoffman"c >tG >> I might be able to scrounge up hardware and licenses -- anybody have B >> details on the logistics and particularly the system management< >> requirements for inclusion in the Sourceforge build farm? >> ...1 >>   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringr >>   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.comk    H That may help too. But what I had in mind was a dedicated funded team toK build enough needed open source projects on VMS to be able to say to anyoneoI who said that VMS doesn't have wide-ranging multiple-choice group of openiL source apps available, "Look - we have all the most popular ones in these 25L categories of tools on VMS. Not every 'open source' app is available even on Solaris either."  L It's nice to thing that we all have 1-3 extra hours per day or even per weekL to devote to porting open source projects to VMS but that clearly is not the9 case for almost all of us in our shrinking VMS community.r  J I guess the suggestion that HP fund this is a non-starter because it wouldL rightly be charged to the VMS marketing budget, and as we all know...VMS has no marketing budget at all.a    H (Aside: - Why is it that we never seem to hear from new customers in theH forums despite some measures of growth being touted at 10-15% per annum?D Surely more than a few of the tech people at these new customers areJ familiar with the c.ov., encompass, Info-Vax, openvms.org forums. So where2 are these people, or do they really exist at all?)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:02:30 GMTM* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>Y Subject: Re: Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is impI2 Message-ID: <G2QJd.6622$1D5.1413@news.cpqcorp.net>  > You come up with, say $3 million US, and I'll find the people.    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message& news:D8qdnaWteLrZI2rcRVn-qQ@igs.net... > C.W.Holeman II wrote:m > > John Smith wrote:i > >f) > >> Thanks Kerry. Yes, I had seen those.  > >>J > >> I had suggested to HP that they take a few million dollars and hire aH > >> small handful of under-employed talented VMS experienced developersJ > >> to port the top 3-5 open source apps still not ported in a variety ofH > >> categories to VMS over the next year or so. Had the suggestion beenH > >> acted upon when first suggested, there would have been more to crowG > >> about at the webcast last Tuesday and in the plethora of trade rag H > >> articles that appears at that time...."HP Serious about Open SourceI > >> on VMS....hundreds of new apps available". An opportunity squanderede. > >> due to lack of vision or cojones or both. > > , > > Here is an old post that seems relevant: > >r > >  > K http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=hoffman+vms+sourceforge+compile+farme
 > > links to:s > > 5 > > "VMS system on the sourceforge.net Compile Farm?"r7 > > "comp.os.vms - Feb 6 2002, 1:06 pm by Hoff Hoffman"t > >eI > >> I might be able to scrounge up hardware and licenses -- anybody havefD > >> details on the logistics and particularly the system management> > >> requirements for inclusion in the Sourceforge build farm? > >> ...3 > >>   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering ! > >>   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.comt >/ >oJ > That may help too. But what I had in mind was a dedicated funded team toF > build enough needed open source projects on VMS to be able to say to anyoneK > who said that VMS doesn't have wide-ranging multiple-choice group of open K > source apps available, "Look - we have all the most popular ones in theseC 25K > categories of tools on VMS. Not every 'open source' app is available evenr on > Solaris either." >6I > It's nice to thing that we all have 1-3 extra hours per day or even perS weekJ > to devote to porting open source projects to VMS but that clearly is not thet; > case for almost all of us in our shrinking VMS community.  >PL > I guess the suggestion that HP fund this is a non-starter because it wouldJ > rightly be charged to the VMS marketing budget, and as we all know...VMS has  > no marketing budget at all.c >l >eJ > (Aside: - Why is it that we never seem to hear from new customers in theJ > forums despite some measures of growth being touted at 10-15% per annum?F > Surely more than a few of the tech people at these new customers areL > familiar with the c.ov., encompass, Info-Vax, openvms.org forums. So where4 > are these people, or do they really exist at all?) >o >B >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:43:10 -0500e# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>oY Subject: Re: Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is impt, Message-ID: <TtydnYS09eIvS2rcRVn-hg@igs.net>  L I have no doubt that you could find the right people, as I'm sure many other co.v. regulars could too.1  B The trick is the $3MM, or 3MM euros for that matter. Perhaps if HPI advertised VMS and sold more of it there would be more customers who'd be@ willing to chip in.n  4 But isn't this what marketing dollars are all about?  H Instead of keychains with some non-descript logo of sharks (apologies toD whomever created it) or a curved arrow (which seems to be the latestJ meaningless logo - see the HP web site for the webcast and some of the VMSK web pages), marketing is about investing in something that is meaningful toh3 customers to influence their purchasing decisions..m  L Say what you want about Sun, but they have invested (dumped, some might say)7 huge amounts of people time into 'open source' efforts.o  H Yes, the returns on that sort of investment may seem hard to measure butG when HP *appears* to many to not be supporting 'open source' except foraF linux I'd take the position that funding a focused open source portingH effort for VMS apps is a necessary thing for HP to do in order to changeL that perception. Since sales often come down to perception based 'feelings',J tangible things have to be done in order to tilt the perception balance in; favor of VMS....especially for prospective *new* customers.t  K If OVMS Engineering were allowed to be Google-like and let engineers devoteeG 20% of their time to 'personal' projects, then perhaps some open source G projects could be accomplished that way during regularly scheduled workrJ hours. But that is predicated on management that views the world that way,H and increasing sales and profits to afford that, and the availability ofL engineering talent in sufficient quantity that the 1 day per week devoted toJ 'personal projects' isn't deemed to be a drag on adding to the VMS feature set or critical fixes.  H You have families and other commitments (such as eating and sleeping, toF name but a few) that you (OVMS Engineering) and we (the great unwashedG c.o.v. crowd) should not be required to give up in order to advance theoH causes of a product owned by a faceless gray corporate behemoth. That weJ collectively already do some of this for a product which could be EOL'd atH any time by ill-informed or just plain ignorant management defines us as2 either dedicated to surmounting challenges or mad.       FredK wrote:@ > You come up with, say $3 million US, and I'll find the people. >o >n0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message( > news:D8qdnaWteLrZI2rcRVn-qQ@igs.net... >> C.W.Holeman II wrote: >>> John Smith wrote:  >>>g) >>>> Thanks Kerry. Yes, I had seen those.K >>>>C >>>> I had suggested to HP that they take a few million dollars andrD >>>> hire a small handful of under-employed talented VMS experiencedE >>>> developers to port the top 3-5 open source apps still not portedeD >>>> in a variety of categories to VMS over the next year or so. HadE >>>> the suggestion been acted upon when first suggested, there would D >>>> have been more to crow about at the webcast last Tuesday and in< >>>> the plethora of trade rag articles that appears at thatD >>>> time...."HP Serious about Open Source on VMS....hundreds of newE >>>> apps available". An opportunity squandered due to lack of vision  >>>> or cojones or both. >>>@, >>> Here is an old post that seems relevant: >>>. >>>w >> > K http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=hoffman+vms+sourceforge+compile+farmw
 >>> links to:e >>> 5 >>> "VMS system on the sourceforge.net Compile Farm?"n7 >>> "comp.os.vms - Feb 6 2002, 1:06 pm by Hoff Hoffman"  >>>sD >>>> I might be able to scrounge up hardware and licenses -- anybody> >>>> have details on the logistics and particularly the systemC >>>> management requirements for inclusion in the Sourceforge builde >>>> farm? ...3 >>>>   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringn! >>>>   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com  >> >>C >> That may help too. But what I had in mind was a dedicated fundedME >> team to build enough needed open source projects on VMS to be able ? >> to say to anyone who said that VMS doesn't have wide-rangingtG >> multiple-choice group of open source apps available, "Look - we haveiD >> all the most popular ones in these 25 categories of tools on VMS.D >> Not every 'open source' app is available even on Solaris either." >>F >> It's nice to thing that we all have 1-3 extra hours per day or evenE >> per week to devote to porting open source projects to VMS but that D >> clearly is not the case for almost all of us in our shrinking VMS
 >> community.n >>G >> I guess the suggestion that HP fund this is a non-starter because it F >> would rightly be charged to the VMS marketing budget, and as we all- >> know...VMS has no marketing budget at all.: >> >>G >> (Aside: - Why is it that we never seem to hear from new customers in D >> the forums despite some measures of growth being touted at 10-15%D >> per annum? Surely more than a few of the tech people at these new> >> customers are familiar with the c.ov., encompass, Info-Vax,C >> openvms.org forums. So where are these people, or do they reallyG >> exist at all?)R   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:02:46 +0800a From: prep@prep.synonet.comw Subject: Re: RFA string format- Message-ID: <87hdl4r2a1.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ) Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:h  F > I did a bit more playing around, this time with an indexed file.  ItE > seems that an RFA for a relative file and a RFA for an indexed fileaE > are two totally seperate things.  Wish there was some documentationo
 > on RFAs.  C There is some in the manuals, and in the ODS-2 spec that was on theh- SIG tape yonks ago. Also look for RMSINT.DOC.    -- v< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.s@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 09:04:24 -0800/ From: "puckout2@yahoo.com" <puckout2@yahoo.com>  Subject: Tivoli SRM B Message-ID: <1106759064.676188.97240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  G Has anyone found a VMS agent for storage resouce manager? IBM lists VMSME agents for other Tivoli products, perhaps a generic agent exists? AnyI help would be apreciated.9   Thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 09:23:36 -0800 From: bill@wcschmidt.com Subject: Re: Tivoli SRM/C Message-ID: <1106760216.916724.232050@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>a  ! Yes there is a agent, it's calledf( Archive Backup Client for TSM on OpenVMS I think the web site iss   http://www.storsol.com   Bill@wcschmidt.com   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 10:16:31 -0800* From: thierry.uso@wanadoo.fr (Thierry USO)' Subject: [ANN] Superversion for OpenVMSp= Message-ID: <79c022e7.0501261016.66f5bcce@posting.google.com>v   Hello,  B Superversion is a version control system written in Java by StefanB Reich (http://www.superversion.org/). It is an alternative to freeF solutions (CVS, Subversion...) running on Unix or commercial solutions (CMS...) running on OpenVMS.  4 Superversion is a free software published under GPL.  E The stable version (Superversion 1.2) is a standalone and single-useri? application. The following version (Superversion 2.0) will be a?) client-server and multi-user application.h  D I have ported Superversion 1.2 on OpenVMS. Porting means testing allA the functions, adapting the source code to correct some failures,8E writing a startup procedure and creating a PCSI kit. Superversion 2.0RF will be ported as soon as there will be a stable version. The PCSI kit can be downloaded at4 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/thierry.uso/suv-dwnload.html   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.052 ************************