0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 27 Jan 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 53      Contents:) Re: An Interview With Mr. OpenVMS Himself ) Re: An Interview With Mr. OpenVMS Himself % Re: ANAL/MEDIA/EXER on a modern disk? % Re: ANAL/MEDIA/EXER on a modern disk? G Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips G Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips G Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips G Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing % Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing 0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia0 Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia; Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia - Security  DEC EDI - anyone using it? Re: DEC EDI - anyone using it? Re: DEC EDI - anyone using it? Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Re: DEC Keyboard Question  Disk naming question Re: Disk naming question Re: Disk naming question Re: Disk naming question8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA8 Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA Free Random Password Generator! Re: General mount/shadow command? ! Re: General mount/shadow command? ! Re: General mount/shadow command? ' Re: Graphing software for VMS web pages  Re: HP to be SAPed again? / Re: LAT application port notification of events 1 Re: Marcello predicts 500% perfomance improvement  Oracle 9i startup script Re: PDFs for HP C docs Re: PDFs for HP C docs Re: PDFs for HP C docs Re: PDFs for HP C docs Re: PDFs for HP C docs Re: PDFs for HP C docs Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIP Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIP% Problems with Oracle 9i / PHP/ Apache P Re: Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is impP Re: Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is imp test VOX programming glitches Window managers on VMS Re: Window managers on VMS Re: Window managers on VMS Re: Window managers on VMS  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 22:40:21 -0000 1 From: wspencer@ap.dontspamme.org (Warren Spencer) 2 Subject: Re: An Interview With Mr. OpenVMS Himself1 Message-ID: <95EAB3CD1wspenceraporg@216.168.3.30>   K helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  " wrote in <csp96i$8s2$2@online.de>:  H >In article <06mdnbF7pe92QnLcRVn-vA@metrocastcablevision.com>, Bill Todd" ><billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > J >> There's a reason why Dave was so well-known, and it's not just because $ >> he was such a colorful character. > H >Somewhere on the web, I read how someone described working with him as G >like acting in a homo-erotic cowboy movie.  Colorful character indeed!  >   L I hate to admit such things, but it was long enough ago I can get away with J it.  I ran into a fellow (so sorry, don't remember his name) in Ottawa in J the late 80's who worked for DEC and claimed he worked with Cutler on VMS D 1.  His knowledge of VMS internals was far enough beyond mine (very G limited) that I believed him.  Colorful indeed - we were at the Silver  % Dollar strip joint on Merrivale Road!    ws   --   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:19:54 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: An Interview With Mr. OpenVMS Himself, Message-ID: <41F841A7.1C181D83@teksavvy.com>   Warren Spencer wrote: M > I hate to admit such things, but it was long enough ago I can get away with K > it.  I ran into a fellow (so sorry, don't remember his name) in Ottawa in K > the late 80's who worked for DEC and claimed he worked with Cutler on VMS  > 1.    Benoit Seauvageau ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 19:46:14 -0600 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>. Subject: Re: ANAL/MEDIA/EXER on a modern disk?D Message-ID: <craigberry-E8237C.19461326012005@news.isp.giganews.com>  3 In article <Wm8jmYqQwmx+@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 6  kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:  8 > In article <41F6B14C.73906335@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ( > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > > Bob Kaplow wrote: M > >> We used to be able to test and exercise new disks (or destroy sensitive  	 > >> data L > >> from old disks) with the ANALYZE/MEDIA/EXERCISE command, or way back inN > >> time, the BAD utility under RSX. Alas with modern "smart" devices, these  > >> no  > >> longer function.  > > * > > Why is ana/media not working anymore ? >  > $ anal/media/exer <dev>:B > %BAD-F-DEVRCT, unable to analyze <dev>:, due to revector caching  F If you look at HELP/MESSAGE DEVRCT you will see that revector caching G is a function of the controller, not the disk.  Attach the disk to the  H dumbest controller you can find in your spare parts box and try again.  ? Note that there may also be erase commands of some sort in the  E controller firmware, if indeed the controller is some sort of gadget  $ with its own command-line interface.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:53:58 -0500 ' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> . Subject: Re: ANAL/MEDIA/EXER on a modern disk?/ Message-ID: <9o8mc2-34f.ln1@dadsys2.fuller.com>    Bob Kaplow wrote:   - > A long time ago in a galaxy far far away...  > I > We used to be able to test and exercise new disks (or destroy sensitive K > data from old disks) with the ANALYZE/MEDIA/EXERCISE command, or way back G > in time, the BAD utility under RSX. Alas with modern "smart" devices, I > these no longer function. If my disks were in an HSx array, I could run " > DILX to accomplish this purpose. > J > But what do you do these days to beat up new or used disks when they areK > just JBOD drives on some random SCSI controller? ANAL/DISK/READ only hits K > used blocks, and doesn't do any writes. INIT/ERASE doesn't seem like what  > I'm looking for either.    Start with:   +         $ INIT/ERASE/HIGHWATER_MARKING dev:    Then,   C         $ MCR SYSGEN CREATE dev:[00000]filename0001.typ/SIZE=nnnnnn   J Repeat the SYSGEN CREATE until the disk is full.  This should exercise the disk for writing.    Then:            $ ANA/DISK/READ dev:  L To read each of the files previously created.  If you want to really beat upI the disk, start up several of the ANA/DISK/READ commands, spaced a couple 7 minutes apart (in batch, I suppose).  Repeat as needed.   H Let that cook for a day.  If the disk survives, then it's probably good.  G I've a command procedure that does something like that, but it's not at J hand.  Besides, an old VMS hand like you should be able to whip one out in a few minutes. --             Stu    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 10:57:38 -0800 From: tadamsmar@yahoo.com P Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chipsC Message-ID: <1106765858.316133.280190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Al Dykes wrote: ' > What's chips is VMS going to run on ?  > D > I just looked thru all the posts with "itanium" in the subject andF > don't have a clear conclusion.  I see that HP has no plan on VMS forE > AMD. From reading the trade press I gather that Itanuim is someting  to9 > walk away from.  I assume Alpha is in it's end of life.  > E > I think Intel is extending it's x86 architecture to 64 bits because @ > Itanuim isn't happening and AMD it eating Intel's lunch in the > comodity 64 bit market.  > ? > If I'm right, How much longer will Itanuim chips be amde, and  > what else is there for VMS ?  = Seem to recall that VMS has been almost %100 C code since the ; VAX to Alpha port.  I don't think the failure of Itanium or ! any other chip will end its life.    > C > I'm sure this has been hashed over, already, but I can't find it.  > 	 > Thanks.  >  > -- > ! > a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m  > # > Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 13:34:55 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) P Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips3 Message-ID: <btLBSlAyMAZF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <1106765858.316133.280190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:   ? > Seem to recall that VMS has been almost %100 C code since the  > VAX to Alpha port.   You recall incorrectly.   : You are probably thinking of a metric about "new modules".A The major advantage of VMS stability stems in part from resisting @ the urge to create "new modules" where not absolutely necessary.  ) > I don't think the failure of Itanium or # > any other chip will end its life.   @ The other major languages are Bliss and VAX Macro.  Creating VMS? compilers for those languages on another architecture should be 3 no worse than for the three where VMS already runs.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:07:58 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> P Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips, Message-ID: <41F806A7.E11C6463@teksavvy.com>   tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:? > Seem to recall that VMS has been almost %100 C code since the = > VAX to Alpha port.  I don't think the failure of Itanium or # > any other chip will end its life.   F The failure of IA64 won't necessarily end its life. But it may be usedC as an excuse to end its life. Look at Tru64. It was doing well, but H because they decided that the *features* of HP UX could replace those of@ Tru64, they didn't feel it necessary to port Tru64 beyond Alpha.  C The argument could be made that with the Veritas thing, HP UX gains H sufficient clustering (in marketing gobbledeegook), that HP-UX will haveF far more applications that VMS (especially since IA64 will have only aE subset of Alpha-VMS applications which was itself a subset of VAX-VMS 0 applications inherited from the heydays of VMS).  H Consider that HP-UX has an uptodate version fo Motif, VMS has an archaicB one. HP-UX runs Apache, VMS needs to have a proprietary version ofG Apache etc etc. There are a lot of things which, from a marketing point H of view, you can use to paint HP-=UX as a much better solution than VMS.  F *IF* they want to, they can certaintly find ways to justify moving VMSH customers to HP-UX and those that really really need up time can more to Tandem.   D First impressions are often the right ones. Stallard's memo may haveR been updated to quiet us, but it may still reflect HP's true long term intentions.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 15:59:14 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) P Subject: Re: Clarify: What's going on with VMS on Itanium and other xx86xx chips- Message-ID: <uZI6aVLq9IOs@cuebid.zko.dec.com>    tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:   ? > Seem to recall that VMS has been almost %100 C code since the  > VAX to Alpha port.    B That's not at all correct, as has been discussed many, many, times in comp.os.vms.    --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:20:15 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing, Message-ID: <41F7ED6E.33F9EC9E@teksavvy.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: G > >4. Various Devices eg. DECServer 200 will not work any more, because ' > >they need to download their software  > J > These are likely using the MOP protocol for downloads, not LAT.  Depends, > on how the network routers are configured.  E Wouldn't also be non routable ? Isn't it an ethernet broadcast asking A for anyone to "please feed me", and the hosts using the ethernety D address to identify the device that needs feeding and determine what file to feed it ?   D If you go through a router, won't the servers think it is the router- that is hungry and not know what to feed it ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:36:10 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing, Message-ID: <41F7F128.250330C8@teksavvy.com>   Allan Hathaway wrote: G > We are using a cluster plus a further OpenVMS computer, at the moment F > with DECNET and LAT switched on. In the future we have been told, weF > will not be able to use DECNET (because of changes to the networking@ > cabling in the company - something to do with DECNET cannot do > routing).   H If the change involves changing bridges to routers, then this has a real impact on you:  G Bridges allow both LAT , SCS (cluster), MOP, and higher level protocols C such as TCPIP and DECNET to pass through because they make a single 
 logical LAN.    G The more modern equivalent of a bridge is called a switch, and switches H are very acceptable in shops.  Both operate at the ethernet packet level@ based on ethernet adresses and are thus totally agnostic on what' protocol is inside the ethernet packet.   G Inside a physical LAN, you can do as you wish and you can't let anybody H inside your company tell you you can't use LAT, SCS, DECNET or any otherB protocol.  Whatever device at the boundary of your LAN will filter/ everything your company doesn't want to handle.   F If you lan spans multiple segments connected by bridges that are being4 replaced by routers, then yes, this will impact you.  H The business case will hinge on how much it will cost for you to replaceG equipment and software because your coproration refuses to provide open H bandwidth for your packets. If you need to replace terminal servers withH some that handle telnet, if you need to reprogram tons of DCL prodecuresF because you can't use copy anymore etc etc. There are costs associated
 with this.  ) You can then provide different solutions:   B If you need LAT/SCS/MOP/DECNET only between two points inside your? company, then you could arguem for them to get a BROUTER (combo F bridge-router) to link those two sites, and thus allow your traffic toF flow seemlessly, as well as allow routed TCPIP. Because no other linksH in the corporation would have this, your packets wouldn't propagate past these 2 segments.   F The other solution is for your department to simply rent your own lineC to connect the two sites and allow full connectivity and charge the G networking group the difference because they passed an emootional edict I that they only support TCPIP and this edict has costs to the corporation.   H However, if your LAT is currently distributed to a large number of sitesM though a large extended LAN, then their edict will be very hard to go around.   H If you absolutely must convert to TCPIP, note that COPY/FTP makes things? a little bit easier, but certaintly not as good as with DECNET.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:05:21 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: CLUSTER DECNET LAT Load-Balancing, Message-ID: <41F7F7FD.CF895E10@teksavvy.com>   One other thing to consider:  F DECNET offers security features that are not matched by TCPIP (nowhere near in fact),  G With DECNET proxies, you not only authenticate users on a node, but you D also avoid having to send passwords over a line yet you stil provide# robust security and authentication.   H Ensuring your data remains secure may help justify getting your own line/ to preserve the decnet added security features.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:31:43 +0000 (UTC) ? From: Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org> 9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia 9 Message-ID: <41F82826.674EE8A2@encompasserve-or-this.org>    Keith Cayemberg wrote:  7 >    Stable version               8.2 (current release)   D      Stable version               Too many to list (current is best)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:53:27 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 9 Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia , Message-ID: <Rq6dnWQMQ4LksGXcRVn-iw@igs.net>   Graham Burley wrote: > Keith Cayemberg wrote: > 8 >>    Stable version               8.2 (current release) > F >      Stable version               Too many to list (current is best)     Stable version:    ALL   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:21:01 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> D Subject: Re: Comparison of operating systems on wikipedia - Security( Message-ID: <opsk775bsizgicya@hyrrokkin>  5 On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:04:50 +0100, Keith Cayemberg   ! <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote:    > John Smith wrote:  >>> 6 >>>   Target Audience Server,Enthusiast,Secure Domain,( >>> _WS_,_TS_,_RT_,_PC_,_DCS_,MC,DT,_TP_% >>> _Batch_,Fully-Shared _Clustering_ J >>    Just what do you means by 'secure domain'?  Are you thinking C & B  	 >> -level ' >> Orange Book or is it something else?  >>  F The Orange book was rendered obsolete by the Common Criteria ca. 1995.   > H > I'm purposely not being more precise. OpenVMS is in fact used in the  J > security domains (officially B1 LABELED SECURITY PROTECTION rated with  E > SEVMS or native C2 CONTROLLED ACCESS PROTECTION rated) of several   J > governments. I have also read discussions indicating that the security  J > design was originally intended to provide the basis for an A1 VERIFIED  I > DESIGN security rating (after adding a few more security functions in   K > addition to the MAC) but the certification was not pursued further when   K > it was decided that the market wasn't big enough to justify the effort.   H > OpenVMS Clusters are also the only C2 certified fully shared cluster  F > solution. So I think there is more than enough reason to justify a  $ > "Security Domain" Target Audience. >  > An A1 Reference...B > (interesting how the Multicians are informed about VMS Security)N > http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=3C07B110.9060905@multicians.org&oe=UTF-8 > & > New Security Features in OpenVMS 8.28 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/security.html#baseos >  > J > Here are some more relevant URL's concerning OpenVMS' current security   > certification status:  > & > OpenVMS V6.1 VAX and Alpha C2 RatingC > http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/entries/CSC-EPL-93-002-B.html  > 4 > Security Enhanced VMS V6.1 VAX and Alpha B1 RatingC > http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/entries/CSC-EPL-93-003-B.html  > 8 > TPEP - Evaluated Products List (EPL) Indexed by Vendor< > http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/epl-by-vendor.html#DEC > 8 > TPEP - Evaluated Products List (EPL) Indexed by Rating7 > http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/epl-by-class.html  > 1 > TPEP - Historical Evaluated Products List (EPL) 5 > http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/historical.html  > @ > SAC-TAC Resource Clearinghouse - MLS Operating System Products6 > http://www.acsac.org/sac-tac/res-vendors-mls-os.html >   	   > HP OpenVMS Security - Homepage1 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/security.html  > 5 > OpenVMS compliance with HIPAA security requirements ; > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/healthcare/hipaa.html  > 5 > OpenVMS Compliance with HIPAA Security Requirements J > http://itpapers.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?scid=260&sortby=comp&docid=12198 >  > 	 > Cheers!  >  > Keith  >  >  >        --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:25:24 -0600 ( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)# Subject: DEC EDI - anyone using it? 1 Message-ID: <05012620252473@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   O We are evaluating DEC EDI and would like to get any feedback from those persons ) in the group that are using this product.    TIA        John "REBOOT" Brandon  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 21:04:45 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: DEC EDI - anyone using it? 3 Message-ID: <q$KLz2oUUN5P@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <05012620252473@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:Q > We are evaluating DEC EDI and would like to get any feedback from those persons + > in the group that are using this product.   H As I recall Linwood Ferguson on DECUServe has used it, but I am not sure he follows comp.os.vms.    You can find the following at:   	http://decuserve.org   % $ sear decuserve_all_titles "dec edi" M DEC_SOFTWARE        24-JAN-1992   74.14  One DEC EDI user here -- any others? N DEC_SOFTWARE        29-NOV-1993   74.94  Any issues with DEC EDI and Rdb V4.2?; DEC_SOFTWARE        30-MAR-1993  586.1  DEC EDI is not fast 1 HARDWARE_HELP        2-APR-1997  2124.9  DEC EDI   $    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 00:41:09 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: DEC EDI - anyone using it? , Message-ID: <41F87EEE.FBFA3225@teksavvy.com>   John Brandon wrote:  > Q > We are evaluating DEC EDI and would like to get any feedback from those persons + > in the group that are using this product.   H Is the product still supported ? Developped ? is it being ported to IA64 ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:54:53 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question2 Message-ID: <xsTJd.6673$gU5.5801@news.cpqcorp.net>  G The console does not perform the magic act of identifying the KB AFAIK. K If you want the console to know about it, you have to tell it.  I *suppose*  if< everyone were to set it as appropriate, then I could use it.  F Nor does that handle hot-plug.  For example, plugging in a LK411 to an
 AlphaBook.    9 "Ken Fairfield" <my.full.name@intel.com> wrote in message % news:ct8u2k$jp1$1@news01.intel.com...  > FredK wrote:G > > The "default" is a PC-style KB.  To get the driver to handle the KB C > > as a LK411 there is an obscure handshake where the driver sends F > > certain commands that will return "error" characters on a standardE > > KB, and return something else on an LK411 (the LK450 has a subtle  > > variation on this as well).  > = > Some (many?) Alpha consoles, certainly my PWS 600au, have a ? > console variable kbd_hardware_type which can be set to either > > PCXAL or LK411, IIRC.   Are you saying this console variable > is ignored?  Too bad, that...  >  > -Ken > --  8 > I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me... >  > Ken Fairfield # > D1C Automation VMS System Support $ > who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield > where: intel dot com >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:20:35 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question+ Message-ID: <ct8u2k$jp1$1@news01.intel.com>    FredK wrote:E > The "default" is a PC-style KB.  To get the driver to handle the KB A > as a LK411 there is an obscure handshake where the driver sends D > certain commands that will return "error" characters on a standardC > KB, and return something else on an LK411 (the LK450 has a subtle  > variation on this as well).   ; Some (many?) Alpha consoles, certainly my PWS 600au, have a = console variable kbd_hardware_type which can be set to either < PCXAL or LK411, IIRC.   Are you saying this console variable is ignored?  Too bad, that...    	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:15:46 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question+ Message-ID: <ct94qj$n7v$1@news01.intel.com>    Christoph Gartmann wrote:   ` > In article <tTNJd.6603$wy5.240@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: [...] K >>VMS will poll the KB when the driver is reset to force a powerup sequence C >>as well.  But if no KB is there, the sequence may never complete.  >  > L > So if I could tell the KVM to send 0xAA to the Alpha this should force the* > Alpha to start the keyboard negotiation?  ? Is that possible?  Does the Rose ServeView+ that you've written = about allow you to program a sequence to be sent to the host?    	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:44:13 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>" Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question+ Message-ID: <ct96ft$o4t$1@news01.intel.com>    John E. Malmberg wrote:    [...] K > So I will probably leave that alone.  I do not have time to try a direct    > keyboard connection right now. > K > I need to get a copy of the HP Pathworks 32 product for home use and see   > if that works.  E I presume you mention Pathworks 32 because you want to try Powerterm?   - > I can not get the autoscan feature to work.   > Can you elaborate?  I'm not clear what you mean by "autoscan".  ) And after reading your note on DECUServe, < http://www.encompasserve.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/VMS/3141.8 , I have a few other questions:   A 1) The basic one, with both your DS10 and PC booted and connected C     to the KVM, does the keyboard "behave properly" when you switch >     back and forth between the two systems?  This would answerB     whether the switch maintains different modes on the two ports.  @ 2) Can you "program" the switch to remember to use mode 3 on the(     DS10 port and mode 2 on the PC port?  D 3) You wrote, "Of course this is not a complete test, and I have notF     seen what happens during or after a reboot of either the MicrosoftD     Windows 2000 or XP system, or a reboot of the DS-10."  Does thisC     mean each system was already booted when you connect the KVM to A     them?  Have you done a "cold boot" of either one with the KVM      connected?  = 4) The key question for me is the one that Christoph Gartmann =     has raised and discussed with Fred: if you boot the DS10, =     either cold, or as a "hot" reboot, does the LK461 get put "     into the correct mode for VMS?  D I'm really close to purchasing one of these switches for my hobbiestD setup. :-)  At present, I share the monitor and mouse via a KVM, butC I have _two keyboards_, one directly plugged into my PWS600au.  I'd D like to have just one keyboard :-), but if I have to use Christoph'sC fix of directly plugging a keyboard into the PWS after boot, that's B no help: it's a major pain to get at the back of the PWS to do theE plugging (the way I have things arranged), and there's NO WAY I could F get my wife to do that (she uses it more than I do, sigh...).  Of, andE since the thing is pretty noisy (fans for the Alpha, eh?), the system C is shutdown most of the time, so the plugging would need to be done * every time one wanted to use the system...   	Thanks, Ken --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:00:19 -0500 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> " Subject: Re: DEC Keyboard Question1 Message-ID: <NrednV15l-DK-mXcRVn-pg@adelphia.com>    Ken Fairfield wrote: > John E. Malmberg wrote:  >>H >> I need to get a copy of the HP Pathworks 32 product for home use and  >> see if that works.  > G > I presume you mention Pathworks 32 because you want to try Powerterm?   F Actually the real motivator is to put X-11 on one of the test PCs for C other purposes, and I figured that I would use the product that my   employer is selling :-)   . >> I can not get the autoscan feature to work. >   @ > Can you elaborate?  I'm not clear what you mean by "autoscan".  E Autoscan is where it every 8 seconds it switches the screen from one  F system to the next.  Not really a feature that I would use, but I got  curious about it.   + > And after reading your note on DECUServe, > > http://www.encompasserve.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/VMS/3141.8 , > I have a few other questions:  > C > 1) The basic one, with both your DS10 and PC booted and connected D >    to the KVM, does the keyboard "behave properly" when you switch? >    back and forth between the two systems?  This would answer C >    whether the switch maintains different modes on the two ports.   F Both machines behave properly.  However it does not really answer the G question, as it is possible that the PC operating system is also using   mode 3.   F The only issue is that sometimes I have to key in a single ALT-F19 to > get either DECWindows-Motif or Windows back in the right mode.  B > 2) Can you "program" the switch to remember to use mode 3 on the) >    DS10 port and mode 2 on the PC port?   C No programming options.  The switch is as it is.  Just a couple of  H status LEDs, cables and connectors.  It gets power from the two systems.F No switches.  No status screens.  Just ALT-F19-F19-UP_ARROW to switch G sessions, and if the keys do not work on Windows hit F19 again, and if  D the mouse on VMS tries to move a window instead of the normal mouse ' action, then hit ALT-F19 one more time.   ) The only control is through the keyboard.   F > 3) You wrote, "Of course this is not a complete test, and I have notG >    seen what happens during or after a reboot of either the Microsoft E >    Windows 2000 or XP system, or a reboot of the DS-10."  Does this D >    mean each system was already booted when you connect the KVM toB >    them?  Have you done a "cold boot" of either one with the KVM >    connected?   ) Yes, I connected it live to both systems.   I A few weeks later we had a power outage, and I was able to do an orderly  F start up of both systems with no problems.  I thought I put that in a  followup note.  ? > 4) The key question for me is the one that Christoph Gartmann > >    has raised and discussed with Fred: if you boot the DS10,> >    either cold, or as a "hot" reboot, does the LK461 get put# >    into the correct mode for VMS?   I I have booted the DS10 several times now with the KVM and it has not had  
 any problems.   F I am running the field test of 8.2 still.  I will be switching to the = official release soon.  I had one case of the keyboard/mouse  F malfunctioning where I needed to restart DECwindows to get it working 9 again.  I do not know if that resets the keyboard driver.   F Unplugging the keyboard or plugging it directly into the DS10 did not F clear the problem before I restarted DECWindows from a Telnet session.  F > I'm really close to purchasing one of these switches for my hobbiestF > setup. :-)  At present, I share the monitor and mouse via a KVM, but@ > I have _two keyboards_, one directly plugged into my PWS600au.  B I used to have a KVM that I just used to switch the monitor.  But E keeping the audio stuff organized on the desk was a pain.  I did not  ; have room for a second set of powered speakers on the desk.   I So when this KVM with audio went on sale for close to $20 after rebates,  H I figured that it was worth the risk.  And as the keyboard was not used L with the old KVM, I got rid of a wall wart that powered it at the same time.  I I think that sale is over, but check around.  I saw somewhere that there  H was a web site that tracks who is offering rebates for electronic stuff.G I do not have the URL for it handy, but I supposed that either someone  5 here would know it, or a search engine could find it.   F It now has me wondering if the older Belkin KVM that I replaced would G have worked if I ran the keyboard through it.  I will have to try that  F sometime.  But first I would have to get the proper cables from it to 
 the computer.   H Fred, Chris, you and other have clearly done more research in this area H   then I have.  I just bought the cheapest KVM I could find and plugged E it in to see what happened.  I did not understand what the scan mode  ! issue really was when I did this.   I If someone is primarily used to a PC layout, they may be a bit surprised  D at the difference.  For me, this makes the PC easier to use, except @ getting use to the change of the "<>" labeled key becoming "~`".  G If you get one, I hope it works as well for you as this one has for me.   H No one is claiming that this is supported though, so make sure that you " can return it if it does not work.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 11:46:52 -0800 From: tadamsmar@yahoo.comr Subject: Disk naming questionrC Message-ID: <1106768812.944045.182590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    I have a number of systems withi shadow sets.  The disks are alln dka0 and dka100.  & But I now need to support some systems% with dkb0/dkb100, so I need to updateo% the few command procedures that refer % to the physical names, as well as thex written procedures.r  ( I prefer to run exactly the same command  procedures on all these systems.   I know that I can mount a disk with:E  
 mount dkb0 sda  " and use disk$sd, but I don't mount" these disk that way.  The are used" as a parameter on the mount/shadow command.    Is it possible to use generic or' logical names in the /shadow parameters- of the mount/shadow command?   Is there some way to give them  a logical name that I can use in  any context, since I don't mount them directly?   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 14:28:42 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org! Subject: Re: Disk naming questions3 Message-ID: <yTzIVDrNOtvy@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  _ In article <1106768812.944045.182590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:C! > I have a number of systems withs! > shadow sets.  The disks are allh > dka0 and dka100. > ( > But I now need to support some systems' > with dkb0/dkb100, so I need to updater' > the few command procedures that refera' > to the physical names, as well as thet > written procedures.c > * > I prefer to run exactly the same command" > procedures on all these systems. >   > I know that I can mount a disk > with:H >  > mount dkb0 sdr > $ > and use disk$sd, but I don't mount$ > these disk that way.  The are used$ > as a parameter on the mount/shadow
 > command. > " > Is it possible to use generic or) > logical names in the /shadow parametersg > of the mount/shadow command? >   > Is there some way to give them" > a logical name that I can use in" > any context, since I don't mount > them directly?  ? You have asked this question twice now with a different subjecte line each time.   9 It took me about 30 seconds to verify that this can work:-   $ define gork $1$dua2760- $ mount dsa2760: /shadow=gork /ov=id /nowriter/ %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, DISK2760 mounted on _DSA2760::P %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMSUCC, _$1$DUA2760: (HSJ002) is now a valid member of the shadow  set0 $ dismount /nounl dsa2760T   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 13:06:10 -0800 From: tadamsmar@yahoo.comF! Subject: Re: Disk naming questionnC Message-ID: <1106773570.569098.225360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>a  > Sorry about asking twice.  The first one took longer than most; post to show up, so I thought I failed to actually properly, finish the posting process.   @ Interesting that a logical name would work.  Seems to contradict< HELP MOUNT/SHADOW.  Of course you used a logical name of the physical name.   bri...@encompasserve.org wrote:tE > In article <1106768812.944045.182590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,  tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:r# > > I have a number of systems withr# > > shadow sets.  The disks are allt > > dka0 and dka100. > >d* > > But I now need to support some systems) > > with dkb0/dkb100, so I need to update ) > > the few command procedures that refers) > > to the physical names, as well as then > > written procedures.e > > , > > I prefer to run exactly the same command$ > > procedures on all these systems. > ><" > > I know that I can mount a disk	 > > with:  > >v > > mount dkb0 sdS > >e& > > and use disk$sd, but I don't mount& > > these disk that way.  The are used& > > as a parameter on the mount/shadow > > command. > > $ > > Is it possible to use generic or+ > > logical names in the /shadow parameterst  > > of the mount/shadow command? > >r" > > Is there some way to give them$ > > a logical name that I can use in$ > > any context, since I don't mount > > them directly? >5A > You have asked this question twice now with a different subjecto > line each time.A >/; > It took me about 30 seconds to verify that this can work:1 >1 > $ define gork $1$dua2760/ > $ mount dsa2760: /shadow=gork /ov=id /nowritee1 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, DISK2760 mounted on _DSA2760: F > %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMSUCC, _$1$DUA2760: (HSJ002) is now a valid member of the shadow i > sett > $ dismount /nounl dsa2760o >  > 	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 15:53:18 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>! Subject: Re: Disk naming questioncC Message-ID: <1106783598.165588.149580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>t   tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote:@ > Sorry about asking twice.  The first one took longer than most= > post to show up, so I thought I failed to actually properlyD > finish the posting process., >eB > Interesting that a logical name would work.  Seems to contradict> > HELP MOUNT/SHADOW.  Of course you used a logical name of the > physical name.  F I can't think of a situation where you can't do that in a DCL command.F Logical names are always translated in the context of a device name in a DCL command, IIANM.r  5 I don't think it would work at a boot prompt, though!t   >i! > bri...@encompasserve.org wrote: G > > In article <1106768812.944045.182590@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,  > tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:r [...]t   > > $ define gork $1$dua2760  & I'd recommend one tiny change to this:   $ define gork $1$dua2760:   F It doesn't matter in this usage, but in some cases that trailing colonG may be crucial (at least SET DEFAULT would have trouble with it in some  circumstance.)   [...]w  1 > > $ mount dsa2760: /shadow=gork /ov=id /nowrite 3 > > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, DISK2760 mounted on _DSA2760:nE > > %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMSUCC, _$1$DUA2760: (HSJ002) is now a valid memberH of
 > the shadow u > > setX > > $ dismount /nounl dsa2760    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 15:56:16 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)A Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USAr3 Message-ID: <9B8hb1HXts8n@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  i In article <6.1.2.0.2.20050126114651.02a22f20@raptor.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:GG > Tell you what: the one item I really wanted was the solid cherry RL01RL > drive that used to be in the lobby of CX01 (Colorado Springs) in the earlyK > 1980's.  The whole drive cabinet was beautifully-finished cherry wood.  IyJ > was told it was the (or an) original prototype of the drive, but I don't? > know how true that was.  You ought to remember that one, Bob!,  I Alas, no. I don't recall where I entered CX1 (I don't think it had an "O"vF back then) for my trips to the support center. Later trips were to the warehouse where we met.s  L The thing I always wanted was the prototype MVII that a friend had, with the$ butcher block top instead of metal.   H And an 11/74 front panel (IIRC Craig got that one, I did get one from anI 11/70). And a real "Purple and Dark Pink" 6' rack to mount my home stereooF stuff in (over my wife's dead body!). And a PDP-8/E. And a "space art"J poster that was on the wall at DDO, from a now-dead artist that I've got a7 couple other posters from. And a bunch of other things.w  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"r& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdftL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  I         You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a C         reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about I         repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in thee7         struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:14:47 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>tA Subject: Re: disposition of largest private DEC collection in USA A Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050126150601.02a22f20@raptor.psccos.com>   ( At 02:56 PM 1/26/2005, Bob Kaplow wrote:G >In article <6.1.2.0.2.20050126114651.02a22f20@raptor.psccos.com>, Dan e$ >O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:I > > Tell you what: the one item I really wanted was the solid cherry RL01oN > > drive that used to be in the lobby of CX01 (Colorado Springs) in the earlyM > > 1980's.  The whole drive cabinet was beautifully-finished cherry wood.  IoL > > was told it was the (or an) original prototype of the drive, but I don'tA > > know how true that was.  You ought to remember that one, Bob!c >eJ >Alas, no. I don't recall where I entered CX1 (I don't think it had an "O"G >back then) for my trips to the support center. Later trips were to the  >warehouse where we met.  J Actually, it was just "CXO" at the time when I started; there was just theG 1 building.  If I remember correctly, "CSO" was, I think, in Cincinnatin or someplace similar.V  I >And an 11/74 front panel (IIRC Craig got that one, I did get one from aneJ >11/70). And a real "Purple and Dark Pink" 6' rack to mount my home stereoG >stuff in (over my wife's dead body!). And a PDP-8/E. And a "space art"mK >poster that was on the wall at DDO, from a now-dead artist that I've got a 8 >couple other posters from. And a bunch of other things.  H I almost got an 11/70 front panel on Ebay a few months ago.  I do have aH front panel from an 11/34 and a big hunk (8k *BITS*) of core memory fromI an 11/40 (that's a real museum piece - you can see hand-done work on it),f! plus a platter from an RP05 pack.e  J That platter has a history, by the way: we had 2 RP05's on an 11/70 in theF CSC (this was in KS0) that they wouldn't give me the $$$ to upgrade toH RP06's.  So, one evening I went in and sort of "nudged" one in the back.H Darnedest thing: the sucker had a head crash that night!  Don't know how that could have happened!   ' ..but I got 2 RP06's out of it!  <grin>l  E First time that story's been told...I figure that after 23 years, then% statute of limitations has expired...w   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 21:13:57 -0800 From: Spam2@Sharewareisland.comh' Subject: Free Random Password GeneratoreB Message-ID: <1106802837.041869.74070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Free Random Password Generator3 http://www.sharewareisland.com/randompasswords.aspxm   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 19:28:44 +0000 (UTC)o- From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)e* Subject: Re: General mount/shadow command?. Message-ID: <ct8r1b$avl$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  ~ tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes in article <1106763439.812684.98940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> dated 26 Jan 2005 10:17:19 -0800:* >Up till now all my systems have had disks >named DKA0 AND DKA100.e >n' >But we now have some systems with DKB0.% >and DKB100, and I need to generalize-" >my command procedures and written" >procedures.  I prefer to have all" >the command procedures on all the% >systems to be the same, if possible.g  - I can think of 2 ways to attack this problem.D  7 1)  Create a hardware-specific command procedure calledi5 SYS$MANAGER:HARDWARE_CONFIG.COM, which has data like:d   $ disk1 :== DKA0 $ disk2 :== DKA100   Then in your mount procedure $ @SYS$MANAGER:HARDWARE_CONFIG $ mount 'disk1' ....  C 2)  Use port alloclass to make them all DKAs.  This would require at4 different SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$DEVICES.DAT on each system.   >If there is no better way, I " >can check f$device(*dkb0:) to see! >if it returns a null string, andi# >issued different commands based on  >this.  ' $ if f$getdvi("dka0","exists") then ...   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:47:39 +0000 (UTC)E6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: General mount/shadow command?1 Message-ID: <newscache$e3zxai$2rs1$1@news.sil.at>   ^ In article <1106763439.812684.98940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:* >Up till now all my systems have had disks >named DKA0 AND DKA100.n  
 Not that bad.-I But referring to the disks without logical names (except in the procedurev= where the mount of these disks happen during startup) is bad. N You gain A LOT of flexibility with logical names. eg Virtual (Concealed) disks  ' >But we now have some systems with DKB0b% >and DKB100, and I need to generalize." >my command procedures and written" >procedures.  I prefer to have all" >the command procedures on all the% >systems to be the same, if possible.l  ! Thats why there are logicalnames.a' And all refer to the same logical namesl2 (which are based on functionality not on physics).  $ >These are used to form a shadowset.  F It is no different to a physical disk. The mount command is different.G You need a nonzero allocation class and a shadowing license. That's it.w  & >I was wondering if there is a generic >way to refer to these disks ins >s >the MOUNT/SHADOW= command.b  ) Do not use logicals in the MOUNT command.,D Do use the MOUNT command to create logicals for the volumes (disks).  A You need one single point with knowledge about the real hardware.e5 Better have it in SYCONFIG.COM than in SYLOGICALS.COMo   >I know that >y >mount dka0 sx >t# >will allow me to refer to disk$sx,e  B Yup. DISK$label is the default logical MOUNT assigns for the disk,I but you can specify the name of the logical yourself as the 3rd parametero to the mount command.e  " >but I typically don't issue mount >commands for these disks.   Then better change your method.  or in less aggressive wordsg$ WHO does issue mount commands then ?   >If there is no better way, Ia" >can check f$device(*dkb0:) to see! >if it returns a null string, ande# >issued different commands based oni >this.  L You could of course take F$DEVICE and F$GETDVI to get/check a list of deviceM names, but I think it is not worth the effort. A simple IF node .EQS. "node1"tH in SYCONFIG.COM where you place the specific mount command for this nodeI (and you place all commands for all your nodes in the same file which yout3 distribute) is IMNSHO the least 'dangerous' method.    just my 0.02   -- i Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERa% Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 21:34:09 GMT 7 From: John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp>-* Subject: Re: General mount/shadow command?2 Message-ID: <l1UJd.6678$AU5.2471@news.cpqcorp.net>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:D > In article <1106763439.812684.98940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, > tadamsmar@yahoo.com writes:f > C > You need one single point with knowledge about the real hardware.t7 > Better have it in SYCONFIG.COM than in SYLOGICALS.COMs  A SYCONFIG.COM is run when you do AUTOGEN.  Be very careful of what  you put in there.e  I I usually have SYLOGICALS.COM look for a LOGICALS_<nodename>.COM and run a3 it if present to set up node specific information.  G LOGICALS_<nodename>.COM may then execute LOGICALS_<clustername>.COM fore! the cluster specific information.U  H That way I can have node and cluster specific command files and command C files that are common for many many nodes.  And a change to a node 4G specific file does not require the common command files to be retested  # and distributed to all the systems.    -Johnr! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp  Personal Opinion Onlyi   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 21:48:22 -0000 1 From: wspencer@ap.dontspamme.org (Warren Spencer)s0 Subject: Re: Graphing software for VMS web pages1 Message-ID: <95EAAA828wspenceraporg@216.168.3.30>i  4 mcbill20@yahoo.com wrote in <1106359212.137289.45420 @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>:   G >I have lots of data in Oracle that I'd like to be able to graph on weboF >pages using CSWS but so far after searching this group I don't reallyG >see anything. All I am trying to do is some simple line and bar graphsTG >with the output to a jpeg file. Is anyone out there doing this on VMS?s >Thanks. >Bille >i  K The PHP langauge (www.php.net) is available on OpenVMS.  If the GD library 1K comes with it, you've got all the drawing primitives you need to construct o/ pretty web pages.  Works like a champ on Linux.s   ws   -- i Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 21:40:51 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: HP to be SAPed again?+ Message-ID: <41F862C3.C273258B@comcast.net>    prep@prep.synonet.com wrote: >  > From the register. > 5 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/24/hp_pc_hell/s >  > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.oB >                                              West Australia 6076, > comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot0 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.  E If anyone recalls the bad repair parts p[ost I made around Christmas,dA that seems to have been still more fallout from HP's SAP debacle.    -- M David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:a" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/e   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:50:57 -0500p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>s8 Subject: Re: LAT application port notification of events, Message-ID: <41F7F49E.4BC0DCB3@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:H >    It's not a lock.  The terminal driver has an attention AST from theF >    JOBCONTROLLER.  If the driver gets unsolicited input while no oneD >    is logged in, that AST tells JOBCONTROLLER to startup LOGINOUT.  H But when I $ASSIGN a channel to that serial device, what happens to makeC the JOBCONTROLLER's AST go away and not get delivered when there is  input from the serial port ?  G My concern is more with making it possible for an application which hasoE a channel to the serial port and logs any characters coming from that/C port AND get a notification if any user attempst to SET HOST/DTE oraF otherwise assign a channel to it (so that my app can then $DEASSIGN toF free the channel so that the SET HOST/DTE will succeed instead of fail) with "device is alreadyt in use" message.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:15:36 GMToL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing): Subject: Re: Marcello predicts 500% perfomance improvement6 Message-ID: <00A3E753.1D8372EE@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  T In article <41EF3B60.10805@tsoft-inc.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >.P >IBM is a special case.  As long as their resolve holds out, they will not give R >in and accept a lesser chip.  Who was it that killed off VAX and Alpha.  We have R >the likes of Palmer and Capalles.  Did they really understand the technology?  I B >doubt it.  Nor did they have the resolve to "do the right thing". >rQ >Back in 1960 Ford motor company suffered under the incluence of a bean counter. aQ >  Their car sales suffered because of this.  Only when they went back to people  M >who loved the automobile and wanted to build "good" cars did their fortunes nO >reverse.  Then the asshole got into government, and was a significant part of c# >the total fiasco that was Vietnam.6 >5R >Well, the likes of Palmer, curly, carly, and a few others are today's MacNamara,  >or however it was spelled.e  K Just as an OT-from-VMS addition, it might be worth remembering that the wayoC McNamara got into Ford was having made his reputation as one of theIO "statistical methods of management" Whiz Kids in the Air Force in WWII, a group:N that worked some logistical miracles.  Running a company was an example of theK Peter Principle (the tendency of people to get promoted past their level of N competence); failing upward to Secretary of Defense was the same kind of deal.= But running DoD wasn't his first time working for government.   / None of which argues at all with what you said.-   -- Alan-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:46:27 -0500m. From: "W. Sherman" <sherman@ssdd.nrl.navy.mil>! Subject: Oracle 9i startup script.* Message-ID: <ct96p6$pdf$1@ra.nrl.navy.mil>  J does anyone have a working startup script for Oracle 9i for openvms 7.3-2?  $ how about a shutdown script as well?   thanks in advance. . . e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:01:41 -0500-, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> Subject: Re: PDFs for HP C docse, Message-ID: <41f7e9dc$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  = go to http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/c/c_index.html andc; http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/cplus/cplus_index.htmlnL and the docs are listed.Both of these are in the left nav of the doc page at http://h71000.www7.hp.com/docr  L I sent a note to the area owner that a request for PDF's was made. Hopefully he will come up with PDFsu   -warrenL  1 "Galen" <gspamtackett@yahoo.com> wrote in messagen= news:1106742053.470042.288230@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...l >m > JF Mezei wrote:: > > 7 > > You need to specify whether you mean HP C or DEC C.d > >e > G > It doesn't seem to make any difference. Either way, all I can turn up E > for the Language Reference Manual or Users Guide are HTML versions.  >B   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:38:01 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>a Subject: Re: PDFs for HP C docs,, Message-ID: <41F7F196.935270A9@teksavvy.com>   Galen wrote:7 > > You need to specify whether you mean HP C or DEC C.i > >s > ) > It doesn't seem to make any difference.   E It does now. HP has its own compilers, Intel has compilers, and there.? are the DEC compilers. Nobody is really sure which one is to be D available on VMS in the future and in what mix of compilers/GEM/etc.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:06:12 GMTm& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> Subject: Re: PDFs for HP C docsi2 Message-ID: <UKSJd.6662$UK5.4906@news.cpqcorp.net>   JF Mezei wrote:    > G > It does now. HP has its own compilers, Intel has compilers, and theretA > are the DEC compilers. Nobody is really sure which one is to bemF > available on VMS in the future and in what mix of compilers/GEM/etc.  B Then you really haven't been paying close attention to posts from F myself, Ed Vogel, etc.  I've been quite explicit about the compilers, ) their legacy, and the plans that we have.w  I The compilers that used to be Compaq C have just been rebranded to HP C. lF   Same frontend Alpha and Itanium, uses GEM on both Alpha and Itanium.  F When you say "HP has its own compilers", do you mean the compilers on I HP-UX?  None of those compilers (or any of the technology) has been used t5 or incorporated on compilers that run on OpenVMS I64.   H The DEC compilers just got rebranded to Compaq compilers.  Only C which E also switched frontends and language conformance from VAX C to DEC C cD (which then rebranded to Compaq C and then rebranded again to HP C)  sometimes causes confusion.f  H For Itanium, only C++ uses a different technology on compared to Alpha. D   The Alpha compiler uses GEM, the Itanium compiler uses technology $ derived from the Intel C++ compiler.   --   John Reagani/ HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leadert Hewlett-Packard Companyl   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 16:01:24 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)  Subject: Re: PDFs for HP C docse- Message-ID: <dPceo6XlXLeA@cuebid.zko.dec.com>   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:r > Galen wrote:8 >> > You need to specify whether you mean HP C or DEC C. >> > >> :* >> It doesn't seem to make any difference. > G > It does now. HP has its own compilers, Intel has compilers, and therenA > are the DEC compilers. Nobody is really sure which one is to be9F > available on VMS in the future and in what mix of compilers/GEM/etc.  H That, of course, is wrong; John Reagan has explained many times what theI plans for the various compilers are.  You, of course, can (and frequentlyrO do), chose to ignore any information that does not fit your predetermined rant.a   --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:35:54 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>p Subject: Re: PDFs for HP C docse, Message-ID: <41F80D31.A84B1548@teksavvy.com>   John Reagan wrote:G > When you say "HP has its own compilers", do you mean the compilers on J > HP-UX?  None of those compilers (or any of the technology) has been used7 > or incorporated on compilers that run on OpenVMS I64.   F Which is why to me "HP C" means nothing because it can mean so many HPH branded products that may or may not apply to VMS and to those who apply; to VMS, may or may not apply to the platform you are using.t  F f a new C++ compiler is being introduced to VMS on IA64, then they canH brand that one "HP C++" even though it should really be "Intel C++". But, the original C++ shouldn't be called HP C++.  D In the case of Compaq, the rebranding didn't introduce any confusion< since everyone knew that Compaq had no software prior to theF Digital/Tandem acquisitions, and Compaq didn't change anything to VMS,L so you knew the compilers on VMS were really the original Digital compilers.  F But with HP, it is different. Not only is there the confision over theF fact that Compaq/HP sold some  (but not all) of the compiler as slaves7 to Intel, but HP already had its own compilers as well.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 19:29:34 -0500'' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>u Subject: Re: PDFs for HP C docsi, Message-ID: <41F835EE.7070001@tsoft-inc.com>   John Reagan wrote:    K > The compilers that used to be Compaq C have just been rebranded to HP C.  G >  Same frontend Alpha and Itanium, uses GEM on both Alpha and Itanium.d > H > When you say "HP has its own compilers", do you mean the compilers on K > HP-UX?  None of those compilers (or any of the technology) has been used e7 > or incorporated on compilers that run on OpenVMS I64.w    Q I guess the question is, without including the "for VMS" and "for HP-UX", how do tJ you say HP C and know which one of the 2 very different products is being Q discussed, or more to the point, which one you're looking for information on the - HP web site?  O Note that I've never looked for info on either, so I don't know what "HP C for j HP-UX" is formally called.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:28:00 -0500o From: k <kdog93@cox.net>' Subject: Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIPo. Message-ID: <AsXJd.95691$Jk5.19067@lakeread01>  / Thanks!  I'll take it up on another news group.b  F Can anyone confirm that they are using a linux client with DecWindows  Motif 1.2-6?  I As I am unable to find an equivalent to the xauth on VMS I am suspicious uG that this version of Motif might be too old to communicate with recent eH versions of linux.  There have been suggestions to run my linux Xserver 1 without any security, e.g. X -ac as a workaround.s  E I've got Fedora Core 3 and Suse 9.2 and will try others.  Please can tL someone confirm their interoperatibility between DecWindows Motif and Linux.  $ Thanks again for all the great help.  E FYI, I have no trouble with Tru64 5.1A <-> mylinux connection or any tG other linux X <-> linux Y flavors.  OpenVMS seems to be unique in this n department.t   -Ben   Keith A. Lewis wrote:ap > k <kdog93@cox.net> writes in article <ZMBJd.95387$Jk5.81572@lakeread01> dated Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:47:52 -0500: >  >>	$ telnet /port=6000 mylinux+ >>	%TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... 192.168.1.2l7 >>	%TELNET-E-CONNFAIL, Failed to connect to remote hosti >  > H > At this point "our" job here on comp.os.vms is done.  You can probably9 > reproduce the remaining problem with Linux alone now.    >  > % export DISPLAY=mylinux:0.0	 > % xlogon > L > Assuming that fails, you can consult the Linux experts in their newsgroups' > without having to mention VMS at all.  > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 00:37:38 -0500F- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>e' Subject: Re: Pls Help with X over TCPIPn, Message-ID: <41F87E1B.8B43F410@teksavvy.com>   k wrote:J > As I am unable to find an equivalent to the xauth on VMS I am suspiciousH > that this version of Motif might be too old to communicate with recentI > versions of linux.  There have been suggestions to run my linux Xservera3 > without any security, e.g. X -ac as a workaround.r  H 1. When you RUN DECW$CLOCK with the display set to your linux box, MotifF is not related since the exchange between the VMS and the linux box isF ulerly at the X protocol level. So while VMS has an antique version of  Motif, it doesn't really matter.  G If you can't telnet to port 6000 betwene the vms machine and the linuix H box, the problem is most likely either at the tcpip level (blocked port,M etc), or on the X server software on the linux which doesn't answer the call.n  E Make sure that on your linux box, you have the x server listneting one port 6000. r  F > FYI, I have no trouble with Tru64 5.1A <-> mylinux connection or anyH > other linux X <-> linux Y flavors.  OpenVMS seems to be unique in this
 > department.   H Can your VMS box open any xwindows on any of your linux boxes ? (i.e. isE it just one box that won't allow VMS to display on it, or do you have < problems with the VMS host opening a window on any machine ?  C Is there a router between your VMS host and the linux host ? Is the # router perhaps blocking port 6000 ?   F The fact that a telnet to port 6000 fails means that since it fails toC even connect, it doesn't get far enough into the process to see anyoN possible incompatibilities at the X level since that level doesn't even begin.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 20:11:05 -0800 From: mcbill20@yahoo.com. Subject: Problems with Oracle 9i / PHP/ ApacheC Message-ID: <1106799065.014079.252150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>a  F Well, I shot myself in the foot somehow. I had spent hours getting PHPC and CSWS to work with Oracle 9i and I must've missed a logical name2D that I had defined because after a reboot I can't connect using PHP.  F PHP works fine but it just wont talk to Oracle. I remember seeing someD info in COV about pointing to the Oracle client. However, 9i doesn't have any *client.exe.h  D I have the ORAUSER in the login.com for the username for Apache. Can' anyone tell me what I might be missing?t   Here's the config:  	 VMS 7.3-1s CSWS (latest...2.0?) PHP (also latest)    Thanks in advance.   Bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 19:55:25 +0000 (UTC)f? From: Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org>iY Subject: Re: Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is imph9 Message-ID: <41F7F59C.6738246D@encompasserve-or-this.org>a   John Smith wrote:  >   J > That may help too. But what I had in mind was a dedicated funded team toM > build enough needed open source projects on VMS to be able to say to anyonesK > who said that VMS doesn't have wide-ranging multiple-choice group of opendN > source apps available, "Look - we have all the most popular ones in these 25N > categories of tools on VMS. Not every 'open source' app is available even on > Solaris either."  ? Do you have something in mind for those 25 categories or tools?i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:05:48 -0700r0 From: Mark Berryman <mark.berryman@mvb.saic.com>Y Subject: Re: Promoting Open Source on VMS (Was: Why growing the VMS installed base is impa' Message-ID: <41f8143c$1@cpns1.saic.com>o   John Smith wrote:7 [text deleted] >  > J > (Aside: - Why is it that we never seem to hear from new customers in theJ > forums despite some measures of growth being touted at 10-15% per annum?F > Surely more than a few of the tech people at these new customers areL > familiar with the c.ov., encompass, Info-Vax, openvms.org forums. So where4 > are these people, or do they really exist at all?)  F Oh, they're out there all right.  They just don't want anything to do G with this forum.  The words used and the names cited vary but they add rE up to one thing: incessant whining, complaining, or insulting is not tE what they are interested in reading.  I also know several people who tH have been involved in VMS for a long time who no longer read this forum  for the same reasons.,  6 I have not asked about any other forums than this one.  
 Mark Berrymana   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 11:31:01 -0800 From: tadamsmar@yahoo.coms
 Subject: testyC Message-ID: <1106767861.302154.112020@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>4   test   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jan 2005 21:04:41 -0800 From: axitus@gmail.com! Subject: VOX programming glitcheslC Message-ID: <1106802281.725365.149430@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F Boy are you guys lame.  Grow a set, go outside and meet something with tits.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:01:14 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>d Subject: Window managers on VMS , Message-ID: <41F7F707.2CB4A43A@teksavvy.com>  A In the thread on the proposed entry of VMS in wikipedia, there isi+ mention of various window managers for VMS.o  H It was my understanding that VMS had only 2 windows managers : XUI which1 was superceded by MWM when DECwindows went Motif.u  D It is also my understanding that CDE replaces the DECwindows session# manager and still runs under motif.s  H But now someone has mentioned that on alpha, if you choose CDE desktop,.E you get DTWM instead of MWM window manager. Is that really the case ?e  D Si DTWM a descendant of the old TWM window manager ? Why would it be% used instead of the more recent MWM ?r  G From what I understood, the only big "architectural" difference between$E CDE and DECW$SESSION was that CDE creates its own "root" window whichuF ocludes the real root window. The rest is the same in terms of windows? handling and decorations (which is what a window manager does).j  < If this is incorrect, what is the correct scheme of things ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:18:27 GMTr* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com># Subject: Re: Window managers on VMSp2 Message-ID: <nWSJd.6665$Ke4.3041@news.cpqcorp.net>  J MWM is the old Motif Window Manager.  DTWM is the Desk Top Window Manager,J which is part of CDE.  You get the first when you use the old desktop, theI latter when you use CDE.  I don't believe that any earlier incarnation iso8 shipped even on VAX.  Remember that Motif pre-dates CDE.    : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:41F7F707.2CB4A43A@teksavvy.com...C > In the thread on the proposed entry of VMS in wikipedia, there is - > mention of various window managers for VMS.  >oJ > It was my understanding that VMS had only 2 windows managers : XUI which3 > was superceded by MWM when DECwindows went Motif.s > F > It is also my understanding that CDE replaces the DECwindows session% > manager and still runs under motif.n >sJ > But now someone has mentioned that on alpha, if you choose CDE desktop,.G > you get DTWM instead of MWM window manager. Is that really the case ?t >sF > Si DTWM a descendant of the old TWM window manager ? Why would it be' > used instead of the more recent MWM ?s > I > From what I understood, the only big "architectural" difference betweennG > CDE and DECW$SESSION was that CDE creates its own "root" window whichtH > ocludes the real root window. The rest is the same in terms of windowsA > handling and decorations (which is what a window manager does).  >d> > If this is incorrect, what is the correct scheme of things ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:39:35 -0500U- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>h# Subject: Re: Window managers on VMSs, Message-ID: <41F80E0E.C39DC908@teksavvy.com>   FredK wrote:L > MWM is the old Motif Window Manager.  DTWM is the Desk Top Window Manager, > which is part of CDE. ...cK > latter when you use CDE.  I don't believe that any earlier incarnation isa: > shipped even on VAX.  Remember that Motif pre-dates CDE.  @ OK, do DTWM doesn't share lineage with the old TWM then ? Out of3 curiosity, what is different between DTWM and MWM ?s  G I am a bit puzzled because newer Motif versions still come with MWM. So F I thought that MWM was still the current window manager at a time when CDE is also standard.n   Doesn't CDE  run over Motif ?d   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:36:29 GMTe* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com># Subject: Re: Window managers on VMSa2 Message-ID: <xAXJd.6703$o06.6652@news.cpqcorp.net>   MWM   == Old Desktop.c DTWM == New Desktop.  < NEITHER is XUI.  XUI never existed outside of early VAX X11.  K NEITHER is the MOTIF programming interface == to the Window Manager.  Motif A is a API, and the look and feel of the windows themselves.  Motif J applications will run just fine under Gnome, or KDE - neither of which are MWM either.h  F Sorry, maybe I'm touchy since you can't seem to ask anything without a
 complaint, real or imagined.t      : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:41F80E0E.C39DC908@teksavvy.com... > FredK wrote:E > > MWM is the old Motif Window Manager.  DTWM is the Desk Top Window  Manager, > > which is part of CDE. ...6J > > latter when you use CDE.  I don't believe that any earlier incarnation is< > > shipped even on VAX.  Remember that Motif pre-dates CDE. >rB > OK, do DTWM doesn't share lineage with the old TWM then ? Out of5 > curiosity, what is different between DTWM and MWM ?  > I > I am a bit puzzled because newer Motif versions still come with MWM. SoyH > I thought that MWM was still the current window manager at a time when > CDE is also standard.  >t > Doesn't CDE  run over Motif ?i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.053 ************************