1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 01 Jul 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 364       Contents:$ Re: AMD vs Intel: links to Compaq/HP8 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program # Re: shareable image, psect and data # Re: shareable image, psect and data  Re: Speaking of promoting VMS  Re: Speaking of promoting VMS " Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report" Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report# Re: US military and confidentiality # RE: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality  Re: Vax emulator' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download  VMIC reflective memory crashB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority0 Re: write sequential variable len record from PC Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:21:44 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: AMD vs Intel: links to Compaq/HP , Message-ID: <42C4463B.E662A491@teksavvy.com>   Michael Unger wrote: > ( > On 2005-06-29 23:58, "JF Mezei" wrote: > % > > The AMD official complaint is at: ` > > http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/AMD-Intel_Full_Complaint.pdf > > J > > It is a scanned document, 48 pages (so I can't copy interesting text). >           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > I > It isn't. According to the document's metadata is has been written with I > Microsoft Word, named "Complaint.doc", and converted to PDF using Adobe   H I just got a new copy and indeed it is NOW a word document. But the copyH I downloaded yesterday was definitely all scanned. The current copy only has the first page scanned.   5 Yesterday,s document was 1.8meg , today, it is 164k !    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 22:12:22 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 , Message-ID: <42c46e46$1@news.langstoeger.at>  [ In article <42c30509$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes: - >I created a pcsi$compressed file (I hope)...   D It would be better to get an ZIPSFX file instead (or in addition)...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:19:36 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 * Message-ID: <42C461E7.F921017@comcast.net>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > ] > In article <42c30509$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes: / > >I created a pcsi$compressed file (I hope)...  > F > It would be better to get an ZIPSFX file instead (or in addition)...  G ZIP SFX's are specific to a CPU architecture. The archibe would have to ) be duplicated for each SFX stub required.   5 .ZIPs and .PCSI$COMPRESSEDs are architecture-neutral.   H .PCSI$COMPRESSEDs, while less than optimally compressed (ZIP can usuallyH squezze 'em another 30% or so), do not require further processing before handing them off to PRODUCT.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Jun 2005 17:31:32 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com " Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program, Message-ID: <da1a9k01de4@enews3.newsguy.com>   jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote: G > trade-off might be what you describe.  I wonder though how many truly ( > clueless folks will get to this point:   >  - finding out about VMS( >  - finding out about the hobby program  >  - joining DECUS or equivalent' >  - getting hardware that will run VMS F >  - procuring the software, by borrowing, buying the hobby CD or from > ebay  >  - signing up for the licenses: >  - installing (or trying to) some or all of the software( >  - running some or all of the softwareI >  - going to the trouble of connecting to the HP hobby trouble-reporting 	 > website   D I've got to admit I got a good chuckle out of this, as you've got anL excellent point.  The hurdles that you have to overcome as a Hobbyist to getL VMS running do seem to indicate that those running it aren't clueless :^) In1 fact this might even largely invalidate my point.   I After about 8 years, I'd largely forgotten how much trouble it was to get I that first home VMS system, and then to get one up and running.  My first K home system was a VAXstation II/RC with a dead RD53, my first running was a  MicroVAX II in a BA123.    			Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:54:11 -0400 + From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> , Subject: Re: shareable image, psect and dataI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0506301641010.13946@login.physics.harvard.edu>   ' On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Bob Koehler wrote:   p > In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506300745510.6874@frank.harvard.edu>, Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> writes: >>K >> "Several Digital programming languages, including VAX C and VAX FORTRAN, M >> implement certain external variables as program sections with the overlaid J >> (OVR), global (GBL), and relocatable (REL) attributes.  When the linkerK >> processes these object modules, it overlays the program sections so that I >> the various object modules that reference the variable access the same  >> virtual memory."  >>G >> (I'm on Alpha, not VAX, but the behavior in this respect seems to be  >> similar.) > E >   Close, but no.  VAX C created a PSECT for each global variable so D >   that global structures could be used to communicate with FortranE >   COMMON blocks, which are also PSECTS.  DEC C uses a global symbol F >   unless you use a #pragma to tell it otherwise.  The PSECT is stillF >   generated so that you can mix VAX C objects and DEC C objects on aH >   VAX.  Since you're on an Alpha you can't have VAX C objects to worryF >   about, just take care of the symbol unless your using a #pragma toF >   interface in a mixed language program or really need to change the >   attributes of the PSECT.  A I think what you're saying is that if the shareable image is only F going to link with other objects created by the DEC C compiler, then I# should use SYMBOL_VECTOR(FOO=DATA).   B I'm trying to grok this sentence: "The PSECT is still generated soA that you can mix VAX C objects and DEC C objects on a VAX."  That D would seem to imply that the PSECT is useless on Alpha, unless thereE is some other language compiler (Alpha Fortran?) that uses PSECTs for F global variables.  If that's true, then SYMBOL_VECTOR(FOO=PSECT) wouldE only be apropriate if I need to overlay FOO on a Fortran COMMON block  (or whatever).   Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell Turn on, log in, tune out    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:23:49 -0400 + From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> , Subject: Re: shareable image, psect and dataI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0506301654320.13946@login.physics.harvard.edu>   ( On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Hoff Hoffman wrote:  p > In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506300745510.6874@frank.harvard.edu>, Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> writes: > J >  You have indicated your proposed solution and some associated research,K >  but haven't indicated your particular goal -- some additional background J >  here on the particular problem you seek to solve could be quite useful,G >  particularly if we are to provide you with alternatives and options.    OK, here goes:  ? I was compiling the Freetype library using the vms_make.com DCL D command procedure.  The command procedure links a shareable image ofF the library using a SYMBOL_VECTOR created by parsing the the output ofD ANALYZE/OBJECT/GSD.  Since Freetype is a port from Unix, the correctE semantics are to treat every global symbol as universal -- that's why / you can create the SYMBOL_VECTOR automatically.   E I've seen several DCL procedures that create SYMBOL_VECTORs that way, D and it struck me that it might be generally useful to have a utilityF that does just that: treat every global symbol as universal and outputE a SYMBOL_VECTOR.  At the very least, it would help me with some stuff D I want to compile on my hobbyist system.  But I didn't like the ideaC of writing it in DCL, which is expedient but not the way to write a 3 utility that you want to include in your DCLTABLES.   F So I pulled out my Linker Utility Reference Manual, read Appendix B onC the Alpha object file specification and wrote a little program that F finds all the defined symbols in an object file.  I'm at the last step@ where I want to output the SYMBOL_VECTOR, and the example in theA Linker Utility Reference Manual seemed to imply that I should use $ "FOO=PSECT" for my global variables.   > :int foo;  > @ >  Per traditional C, this is a source-module-level (file scope) >  declaration...   C I've just recently demonstrated a weakness in my understanding of C E (see the thread on printf conversions), but I believe in this context < (outside of function scope) it is both a source-module levelA declaration and a global definition.  In this context, to prevent B external linkage you use "static int foo;".  So I think "foo" is aB global symbol as declared, and the compiler seems to agree with me+ judging by its inclusion in the object GSD.   H >  Take a look at the declaration scope for whatever C instantiation andD >  compiler version you are using, too -- external, file, or module.  @ What's the difference between file and module declaration scope?  F >  As a start on shareable images, see the Shareable Image Cookbook inG >  the left navigation of the Ask The Wizard area, and see topic (2486) 2 >  in the main section of the Ask The Wizard area.   Will do ...    Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell Turn on, log in, tune out    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 13:42:23 -0700# From: "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> & Subject: Re: Speaking of promoting VMSC Message-ID: <1120164143.593472.224760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Main, Kerry wrote: > > -----Original Message-----, > > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com] > > Main, Kerry wrote:! > > >> -----Original Message----- / > > >> From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]    <snips>    > > >>A > > >> HP does nothing other than preach to the existing customer  > > >> base to say that ? > > >> VMS is right for mission-critical computing, except when  > > >> Cerner or OM Group ' > > >> drops a customer into their lap.    <snips>   F > I am not saying that marketing could not be improved, but in generalA > (with some exceptions), the brand marketing strategy vs product I > marketing strategy is a much higher corp strategy than OpenVMS (and BCS  > for that matter).  >    <snips>   9 PMFJI, but I've a few questions about HP brand marketing.    Does HP have a sales force?   E Do they go after *new* enterprise customers? (include VAR/OEM support  efforts)  F How much training/education/support/encouragement does the sales force@ get for selling OpenVMS vs. what they receive for selling HP-UX, Windows, Linux?   C Does *brand marketing* work if the sales force is biased towards or F against or ignorant about some of the product line, or is divided into separate competing segments?  G Doesn't HP's brand marketing just mean that the sales force should sell A anything they can as long as it's an HP thing? Would the HP thing E usually be the *best fit* thing, or would it be the *easiest to sell*  thing?  A If I were with a Fortune 1000 company and I sent HP an RFP for an A enterprise class installation stressing security as one of my top D requirements, what are the odds I'd get back a proposal for OpenVMS?; (assume the application is available on multiple platforms)   C If more potential customers (not just current customers) knew about ; OpenVMS, would OpenVMS be easier to sell or harder to sell?   1 Anyway, you all get the drift of this, don't you?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:23:34 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: Speaking of promoting VMS+ Message-ID: <42C462D5.EB7C1E64@comcast.net>    WhoDat? wrote: >  > [snip]E > If more potential customers (not just current customers) knew about = > OpenVMS, would OpenVMS be easier to sell or harder to sell?   < Depends on how many (more) roadblocks HP erects in our path.  3 > Anyway, you all get the drift of this, don't you?    We do. HP management does not.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:51:35 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> + Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report 2 Message-ID: <42c44d49$0$701$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  J > Which European VMS Development Center has enough VMS developers to rivalI > Spit Brook and provide the level of support without detracting from the B > ability for them to do their regular work when not in sessions ?  " The TCP/IP Engineering in ValbonneN They have many Engineers: Yanick Pouffary, and.. er... :-( and Yanick Pouffary :-)    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:19:13 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report , Message-ID: <42C453B1.1E4E714D@teksavvy.com>   Didier Morandi wrote: L > > Which European VMS Development Center has enough VMS developers to rival > > Spit Brook    $ > The TCP/IP Engineering in ValbonneP > They have many Engineers: Yanick Pouffary, and.. er... :-( and Yanick Pouffary  B There is a beach on Australia's Gold Coast which has as many TCPIP engineers as Valbonne !!!!!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:32:58 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality+ Message-ID: <3iivmlFm290lU1@individual.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:X > In article <3ie791Fl2ermU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > . >>In article <42c1b870$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>,# >>	Dan Notov <d9nn0@hp.com> writes:  >  > J >>>For a number of years, Lockheed Martin was crying for VMS savvy people , >>>to support a number of military programs. >>C >>A search right now for either VMS or OpenVMS returns nothing. :-(  >  > K > Looking at Dice.com for postings with both the words "lockheed" and "VMS" J > today returns 18 hits.  Four of those are explicitly at Air Force bases,I > and two are in England.  I would guess all those are military programs.   @ When looking at "VMS" jobs at Lockheed, some care must be taken.  C The suite of computers on the F22 is called the Vehicle Management  I System, aka, VMS.  I suspect that most of the Lockheed references to VMS   refer to this.   --  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 15:21:55 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: RE: US military and confidentiality3 Message-ID: <OxMggVfkxTOy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650F7E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:  A > And contrary to some of the allegations here, many DOD folks do G > understand the issues of security when dealing with commodity off the F > shelf server platforms and their vendor recommended monthly security
 > patches.  C There was a participant at the boot camp who wanted to take some of D the trinkets back to the big boss.  The individual said the big bossD was a long-time VMS fan, but it was just a joke because the militaryB would not accept vendor specific trinkets displayed in the obviousC place in the workplace.  There was a chance they might get one such B trinket displayed in the test environment after a personnel shift.A The fact that they cannot be out front boosting VMS does not mean ; they don't love VMS and depend on its most unique features.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 15:28:59 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality3 Message-ID: <VirCyCr$4lt2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3iivmlFm290lU1@individual.net>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:Y >> In article <3ie791Fl2ermU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>  / >>>In article <42c1b870$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, $ >>>	Dan Notov <d9nn0@hp.com> writes: >>   >>  K >>>>For a number of years, Lockheed Martin was crying for VMS savvy people  - >>>>to support a number of military programs.  >>> D >>>A search right now for either VMS or OpenVMS returns nothing. :-( >>   >>  L >> Looking at Dice.com for postings with both the words "lockheed" and "VMS"K >> today returns 18 hits.  Four of those are explicitly at Air Force bases, J >> and two are in England.  I would guess all those are military programs. > B > When looking at "VMS" jobs at Lockheed, some care must be taken. > E > The suite of computers on the F22 is called the Vehicle Management  K > System, aka, VMS.  I suspect that most of the Lockheed references to VMS   > refer to this.  E That could be, but five of them also say VAX and at least two that do * not say VAX do say "Open VMS" (two words).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:00:06 -0600  From: Dan Notov <d9nn0@hp.com>, Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality, Message-ID: <42c45d56$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:_ > In article <3iivmlFm290lU1@individual.net>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:  >  >>Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>Y >>>In article <3ie791Fl2ermU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>>  >>> 0 >>>>In article <42c1b870$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>,% >>>>	Dan Notov <d9nn0@hp.com> writes:  >>>  >>> L >>>>>For a number of years, Lockheed Martin was crying for VMS savvy people . >>>>>to support a number of military programs. >>>>E >>>>A search right now for either VMS or OpenVMS returns nothing. :-(  >>>  >>> L >>>Looking at Dice.com for postings with both the words "lockheed" and "VMS"K >>>today returns 18 hits.  Four of those are explicitly at Air Force bases, J >>>and two are in England.  I would guess all those are military programs. >>B >>When looking at "VMS" jobs at Lockheed, some care must be taken. >>E >>The suite of computers on the F22 is called the Vehicle Management  K >>System, aka, VMS.  I suspect that most of the Lockheed references to VMS   >>refer to this. >  > G > That could be, but five of them also say VAX and at least two that do , > not say VAX do say "Open VMS" (two words).  D F16 and F22 made and continues to make exensive use of VMS on these E programs. Most aircraft programs get locked into a certain computing  I envinronment due to certificatation of the HW and SW involved. Rehosting  I the solution(s) is very difficult because the cost of recertifying is so   high.    CHARON-VAX helps out a lot.    /danno   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:11:07 -0600  From: Dan Notov <d9nn0@hp.com>, Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality* Message-ID: <42c45fec@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:T > In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650F7E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,, > 	"Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >  >> -----Original Message-----  >>% >>>From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=20 B >>>[mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >>>Sent: June 30, 2005 9:18 AM >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ >>>Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality  >>>=207 >>>In article <42c3ec6d$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>, ) >>>	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  >>>  >>>>Main, Kerry wrote: >>>>B >>>>>I find it really hard to believe that this is not also the=20 >>> 
 >>>same thing  >>> ! >>>>>that is happening in the US.  >>>  >>>=20C >>>Once again, with the exception of certain black projects all DOD F >>>(and I am sure other gov't procurements, but I only have first-handG >>>experience with DOD) procurements are public knowledge and the RFP's G >>>are required to be published in the CBD.  Explain to me why HP can't G >>>announce it is bidding on and later that it won some of these RFP's?  >>>=20 >>G >>Bill, you do not seem to understand how the RFP stuff actually works.  >  > I > Kerry, actually, I do.  I have done it from both sides.  I have written F > RFP's and I have helped put together bids on them.  I haven't always( > been in this academic ivory tower! :-) >  > J >>Vendors do not announce "we are bidding on XYZ RFP". It is always a gameC >>where you try to figure out who the competition is and what their G >>strategy will be.  Some of the games include submitting clarification D >>questions (these are allowed and the crown responds to all bidders >  > B > Sorry, we don't have any crowns down here and the original topic > was regarding the US DOD.  >  > F >>without any indication who asked the question) which will put one of= >>your perceived competitors in a tougher position to respond  >>successfully.  >  > . > That part is pretty much the same down here. >  > H >>RFP responding is always a big cat-n-mouse game and if not successful,B >>no vendor will admit it lost or even participated in the bid.=20 >  > D > We don't care about the ones HP looses.  We want to hear about the@ > ones they win.  Down here, the RFP and in most cases the finalB > contract are public information.  If you want, I can probably goB > out ont he web and find ancient reports of some of the ones thatB > the companies I worked for did during my tenure with them.  NoneB > of it was secret and after winning we tended to plaster them allE > over every headline we could grab.  It was free advertising for the D > company and it tended to rub the competitors' noses in it as well. >  > Try google on "ulana2".  >  > G >>>>>Do you think the govt does not have strict rules about vendor bias F >>>>>when speaking or being quoted publicly in any type of an official >>>>>capacity? >>>> >>>>=20  >>>>=20 A >>>>This is quite true. I've been on the receiving end of this=20  >>>  >>>with one app we >>> B >>>>built - at the time and for a long while it was the one and=20 >>>  >>>only solution in  >>> > >>>>the marketplace that a specific government dept./agency=20 >>>  >>>thought was great >>> ; >>>>and liked it to be widely used among capital markets=20  >>>  >>>participants, they  >>> @ >>>>could not and would not open their mouths to recommend us=20 >>>  >>>to anyone. Their  >>> A >>>>words to us were, "We cannot be seen favoring or promoting=20  >>>  >>>one vendor".  >>>  >>>>=20  >>>  >>>=20? >>>NUtt hat only means the gov't can't say "Company A is better = >>>than sliced bread".  There is no bias in saying "Company A = >>>bid on RFP 5X389275B and was selected and awarded Contract ? >>>Q5693D786 for which they will provide 10 HP XP1000's running < >>>OpenVMS Version 8.3."  No bias, just a statement of fact.A >>>And then HP can say "We won Contract Q5693D786 and here is the 3 >>>reason why we were chosen #1 for this proposal."  >>>=20C >>>Unless, HP never bids on any of these, not even as the equipment ! >>>provider to someone like LMCO.  >>>=20 >>I >>Just because you do not read about it in the press, assuming HP and its F >>partners does not bid OpenVMS (and win occasionally) on specific DODB >>contracts is ridiculous. DOD is likely one of the biggest single3 >>Customers that any vendor could potentially have.  >  > E > Then why doesn't HP come right out and show it!!!  That's the point E > people are trying to make here.  The information isn't secret, it's G > public "BY LAW" (at least down here). If this is valuable advertising G > opportunity and HP doesn't use it, what conclusion should be derived? 6 > Either they don't win any or they really don't care. >  > A >>And contrary to some of the allegations here, many DOD folks do G >>understand the issues of security when dealing with commodity off the F >>shelf server platforms and their vendor recommended monthly security
 >>patches. >  > @ > As well we should.  But that is still side-stepping the issue. > B > Why doesn't HP take advantage of the tremendous free advertisingD > availability they would get from publishing powerful news releases1 > about these (supposed) major DOD contract wins?   H The announcement will be some dry disclosure in some public document or 
 trade rag.  F Publishing a reference as you describe still requires buy-in from the A sponsor. You just cannot unilaterally announce something without  = permission. Also, some contractual documents preclude public  ! announcements without permission.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:33:28 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality, Message-ID: <42C46513.BD7F2ECD@teksavvy.com>   Dan Notov wrote:E > F16 and F22 made and continues to make exensive use of VMS on these F > programs. Most aircraft programs get locked into a certain computingJ > envinronment due to certificatation of the HW and SW involved. RehostingJ > the solution(s) is very difficult because the cost of recertifying is so > high.  >  > CHARON-VAX helps out a lot.     A And that, my friends, says a hell of a lot about HP's claims that 1 customers will easily migrate to that IA64 thing.   F If staying with VAX for so many years is necessary for some customers,5 then so will staying with Alpha for other customers.    E In the end, Alpha customers will be buying lenovo or Dell machines 64 H bit machines and run Charon-Alpha on it to continue their operations. (IG assume Charon-Alpha will come out not long after HP stops selling alpga  machines soon.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:28:06 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Vax emulator + Message-ID: <42C463E6.F8A96047@comcast.net>    David J Dachtera wrote:  >  > "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > > 4 > > On 28 Jun 2005 at 21:26, David J Dachtera wrote: > > > Caligula wrote: D > > > > I am aware of Charon, however it appears to be windows only. > > > C > > > Charon-VAX is available for OpenVMS and, I believe, some UN*X  > > > variants.  > > > 6 > > > ...or contact Stan Quayle: http://www.stanq.com/ > > H > > [Thanks for the mention.]  At the moment, CHARON-VAX is available on; > > Windows, Alpha/VMS, and as an embedded custom solution.  > = > Can you tell us more about this "embedded custom solution"?   B Stan replied to me privately, but I think everyone knew what I wasD looking for: a version of Charon that does not require an underlying o.s.  G That might be the next challenge for someone looking to do "one better" ? than SIMH: add to SIMH the code necessary to convert it from an E "application" into a "CPU emulation layer" that lives between the x86 F BIOS and OpenVMS-VAX, much like the console does on VAX and Alpha, notF to mention the very-low-level code that lives under the console on the newer "big" Alphas.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:35:16 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download4 Message-ID: <42c457f0$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   Tom Linden wrote:    > G > I do.  What I was driving at is that HP probably doesn't allow free    > downloads H > because LMF can be defeated, and this way they can keep track of whom  > has  what.J > Of course you can log and record all downloads, as we do,  and you can  
 > validate1 > IP's and so on, but that also is easy to spoof.   < But, from what I understand, you are allowed to get software7 for your hobbyest system from anyone who has a condist. > Compaq cannot track this copying. Why should they be concerned> about untracable internet downloads when they allow untracable
 CD copies?  4 They could get some idea of interest in each product; by counting downloads, where right now they have untracable 
 CD copies.  O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:11:45 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download+ Message-ID: <42C46011.A2E077C6@comcast.net>    Kevin Handy wrote: >  > Tom Linden wrote:  >  > > G > > I do.  What I was driving at is that HP probably doesn't allow free 
 > > downloads I > > because LMF can be defeated, and this way they can keep track of whom  > > has  what.J > > Of course you can log and record all downloads, as we do,  and you can > > validate3 > > IP's and so on, but that also is easy to spoof.  > > > But, from what I understand, you are allowed to get software9 > for your hobbyest system from anyone who has a condist. @ > Compaq cannot track this copying. Why should they be concerned@ > about untracable internet downloads when they allow untracable > CD copies? > 6 > They could get some idea of interest in each product= > by counting downloads, where right now they have untracable  > CD copies.  A Possibly because internet downloads are, at least to some extent, G generally traceable. The trace may not lead anywhere, but in many cases 	 it might.   G If someone were to illegally run licensed software (via whatever hack), 7 and "borrowed" CDs, that would indeed be hard to trace.   G If someone were to illegally run licensed software (via whatever hack), G and obtained the software via the internet, server logs (which could be F subpoenaed) may lead to the download destination, at least, if not the' location where the infraction(s) occur.   H They'd just be trying to keep avenues open in an effort to protect their IP.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:44:37 -0700 , From: David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com>% Subject: VMIC reflective memory crash V Message-ID: <OF3780AFDD.CC24CFF5-ON07257030.006676D5-07257030.0066F6B3@mck.us.ray.com>   Folks:  C I have a VMIC RFM2G (5565) reflective memory card (it's a PCI card) J installed on an Alpha ES45 running VMS 7.3-2.  The driver was written by a, contractor because VMIC doesn't support VMS.  B From time to time, VMIC memory is shifted 8 bytes and VMS crashes.  K I need some help - I'm not into crash dumps or XDELTA -- I don't know where ) to start.  Any tips would be appreciated.    dave.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 15:05:07 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 3 Message-ID: <ZZrI$lOKQgDT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <1120138193.202168.136920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  D > For now I ask: Why does SHOW SYSTEM work "properly" at priority 15E > while WORKSET.COM doesn't? What's different about SHOW SYSTEM? SHOW D > SYSTEM, when run at priority 15, doesn't show all processes in COMH > states like WORKSET.COM does. My first guess would be that SHOW SYSTEMH > uses $GETJPI and that WORKSET.COM uses F$GETJPI which uses $GETJPI (orE > SYS$GETJPI?). So why the difference in behavior? I don't know, so I  > ask.  C Without even bothering to look at the source of either, SHOW SYSTEM D is a single executable image, giving far better atomicity of lookup.  A If this really is important to you, write a real compiled program * rather than using a DCL command procedure.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 15:15:14 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 3 Message-ID: <gcHCyXtS9xa5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <Drb1ItliyY2I@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: l > In article <1120138193.202168.136920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >>  E >> For now I ask: Why does SHOW SYSTEM work "properly" at priority 15 F >> while WORKSET.COM doesn't? What's different about SHOW SYSTEM? SHOWE >> SYSTEM, when run at priority 15, doesn't show all processes in COM I >> states like WORKSET.COM does. My first guess would be that SHOW SYSTEM I >> uses $GETJPI and that WORKSET.COM uses F$GETJPI which uses $GETJPI (or F >> SYS$GETJPI?). So why the difference in behavior? I don't know, so I >> ask.  > $ >    SHOW SYSTEM dosn't use $GETJPI.  I Looking at the Alpha V8.2 listings SHOWSYS.LIS I see 6 calls to $GETJPIW.   $ >    SHOW SYSTEM will only show dataJ >    which is available in the kernel and simply reads that data directly.  J The desired (non-)effect is available via the flags JPI$M_NO_TARGET_INSWAPI and JPI$M_NO_TARGET_AST.  I think I recall using one of those as far back 
 as VMS V3.  H >    $GETJPI can get data which is only in process space as well as dataJ >    in the kernel so it delivers an AST to the target process as a single2 >    general way to make sure it can get the data.  A But as someone said, the non-DCL caller of $GETJPI can be careful  how they tread.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 14:44:08 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority C Message-ID: <1120167848.507875.134150@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:l > In article <1120138193.202168.136920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > F > > For now I ask: Why does SHOW SYSTEM work "properly" at priority 15G > > while WORKSET.COM doesn't? What's different about SHOW SYSTEM? SHOW F > > SYSTEM, when run at priority 15, doesn't show all processes in COMJ > > states like WORKSET.COM does. My first guess would be that SHOW SYSTEMJ > > uses $GETJPI and that WORKSET.COM uses F$GETJPI which uses $GETJPI (orG > > SYS$GETJPI?). So why the difference in behavior? I don't know, so I  > > ask. > E > Without even bothering to look at the source of either, SHOW SYSTEM F > is a single executable image, giving far better atomicity of lookup.  C Well, I realized it was a single image, but I didn't know if or how A that would affect getting COM as a result. The explanations given D seemed to be saying that there is no way to get the state of a lower* priority process via F$GETJPI/$GETJPI. OK.   > C > If this really is important to you, write a real compiled program , > rather than using a DCL command procedure.  E No -- I just wanted to know why it "failed" to give the correct state @ at high priority and why SHOW SYSTEM doesn't "fail" in this way.   Thanks for your help.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:25:29 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> 9 Subject: Re: write sequential variable len record from PC = Message-ID: <42c4553d$0$78282$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>   
 LJB wrote: > 1. Header recordE >   two byte integer, Hex 4500 = 69 after swapping high and low order  > bytes  >   69 bytes of ASCII text > 2. Line drawing record" >   two byte integer record length& >   six byte ASCII file name - char(6)% >   four byte record seq - pic '9999' / >   three byte ASCII file format name - char(3) ( >   one byte move or draw flag - char(1)5 >   two byte qty of move or draw recs - fixed bin(15)  >   one byte operator - pic '9' ! >   four byte VAX float X - float ! >   four byte VAX float Y - float  > 3. Text drawing record" >   two byte integer record length& >   six byte ASCII file name - char(6)% >   four byte record seq - pic '9999' / >   three byte ASCII file format name - char(3)   >   one byte text flag - char(1)- >   two byte qty of text recs - fixed bin(15)  >   one byte operator - pic '9' ! >   four byte VAX float X - float ! >   four byte VAX float Y - float - >   four byte VAX fixed justification - fixed 4 >   four byte VAX fixed text character count - fixed+ >   four byte VAX float text height - float * >   four byte VAX float text slant - float* >   four byte VAX float text slant - float# >   four byte VAX float urX - float # >   four byte VAX float urY - float - >   seventy seven bytes ASCII text - char(77)  > H The records have an odd number of bytes.  Records must be padded with a 4 single 0 byte when they have an odd number of bytes.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:45:40 +0000 (UTC) 0 From: helbig@multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig)% Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 1 Message-ID: <da1i54$1u5c$1@fiasco.xenopsyche.net>   ? In article <slrndc5hag.1cb.knatschke@rayleigh.systella.fr>, JKB " <knatschke@koenigsberg.fr> writes:  ; >	New release available at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/freevms : >	or http://www.systella.fr/~bertrand/FreeVMS/indexGB.html  D Can someone explain to me what the point of FreeVMS is?  A hobbyist E can get real VMS for free (or, in some countries, almost free).  Most E commercial operations using VMS have many, many other costs which are E much larger than those of a non-free VMS, and of course with real VMS B such operations also have a service contract from HP with official support etc.  F Yes, there is a small market---which might be capable of growth---for C small companies where the licensing costs of VMS might be a factor  F keeping them off VMS even if they want to use it (which is why I thinkB there should be a "starter package": VMS costs 10 percent of your E revenue; if you earn so much that this is too much, you can buy it at E the normal price---this would mean additional business for HP, and no E loss of full-price business).  However, such a shop will be small and C there won't be the resources available for playing around; one will ? need a VMS which works.  FreeVMS seems very far away from that.   F So, who actually uses FreeVMS, or would be interested in doing so, andE for what?  Other than hacker types, of course, just doing it for fun. G Of course, I assume it is reverse-engineered so probably has as much in 9 common with VMS as the Posix shell on VMS does with unix.    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Jun 2005 20:10:35 GMT/ From: Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch> % Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 0 Message-ID: <slrndc8kdr.1vn.thierry@MARS.Family>  @ On 2005-06-30, Phillip Helbig <helbig@multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote:A > In article <slrndc5hag.1cb.knatschke@rayleigh.systella.fr>, JKB # ><knatschke@koenigsberg.fr> writes:  > < >>	New release available at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/freevms; >>	or http://www.systella.fr/~bertrand/FreeVMS/indexGB.html  > F > Can someone explain to me what the point of FreeVMS is?  A hobbyist A > can get real VMS for free (or, in some countries, almost free).  > [...] H > So, who actually uses FreeVMS, or would be interested in doing so, andG > for what?  Other than hacker types, of course, just doing it for fun.   N Fancy an operating system feeling like VMS, but on an x86?  Where if somethingJ doesn't work like you like, you can change it yourself (even if most users/ probably wouldn't make use of this feature ;-))    Thierry    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Jun 2005 20:28:42 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)% Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 + Message-ID: <3ij2vqFlmgafU1@individual.net>   4 In article <cs9d5q338dt.fsf@psilocybe.update.uu.se>,+ 	Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes: 4 > helbig@multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig) writes: > B >> In article <slrndc5hag.1cb.knatschke@rayleigh.systella.fr>, JKB% >> <knatschke@koenigsberg.fr> writes:  >>  > >> >	New release available at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/freevms= >> >	or http://www.systella.fr/~bertrand/FreeVMS/indexGB.html  >>  ; >> Can someone explain to me what the point of FreeVMS is?   > J > I'm *not* speaking for the FreeVMS team in any way, but think I have one > answer to offer. This is it:- > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html  > H > If VMS is the best operating system there is, then there is imperative! > that it is to be reimplemented.  >   F Not meaning to shoot you down as I kinda like what your doing but.....D It took, what, 20 some years for VMS to get where it is today with aC building full of engineers dedicagted to the task.  How long do you D figure it will take a handfull of people playing in their spare time to dupliacte that task?    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 22:19:26 +0200( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>% Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 4 Message-ID: <cs9d5q338dt.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE>  2 helbig@multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig) writes:  A > In article <slrndc5hag.1cb.knatschke@rayleigh.systella.fr>, JKB $ > <knatschke@koenigsberg.fr> writes: > = > >	New release available at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/freevms < > >	or http://www.systella.fr/~bertrand/FreeVMS/indexGB.html > : > Can someone explain to me what the point of FreeVMS is?   H I'm *not* speaking for the FreeVMS team in any way, but think I have one answer to offer. This is it:+ http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html   F If VMS is the best operating system there is, then there is imperative that it is to be reimplemented.    /Andreas     --  A A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. ' Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?  A: Top-posting. ; Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:35:23 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>% Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 + Message-ID: <42C4659A.B9572E8B@comcast.net>    Phillip Helbig wrote:  > A > In article <slrndc5hag.1cb.knatschke@rayleigh.systella.fr>, JKB $ > <knatschke@koenigsberg.fr> writes: > C > >       New release available at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/freevms B > >       or http://www.systella.fr/~bertrand/FreeVMS/indexGB.html > : > Can someone explain to me what the point of FreeVMS is?   . See the Linux, *BSD, etc. site of your choice.   > A hobbyistG > can get real VMS for free (or, in some countries, almost free).  Most G > commercial operations using VMS have many, many other costs which are G > much larger than those of a non-free VMS, and of course with real VMS D > such operations also have a service contract from HP with official > support etc. >  > Yes, there is a small market  6 ...estimated at mere 400 million servers world-wide...  * >---which might be capable of growth---forD > small companies where the licensing costs of VMS might be a factor  ? ...or where uncertainty of VMS's future presents an obstacle to  acceptance, consideration, ...  H > keeping them off VMS even if they want to use it (which is why I thinkC > there should be a "starter package": VMS costs 10 percent of your 
 > revenue;  G I have yet to see a corporation that devotes 10% of its revenues to its < IT budget, much less to a single o.s. within that IT budget.  > > if you earn so much that this is too much, you can buy it at > the normal price  + ...which would be a price break for most...   6 >---this would mean additional business for HP, and noC > loss of full-price business).  However, such a shop will be small   1 ..., probably only around Fortune-10, maybe 15...    > and E > there won't be the resources available for playing around; one will A > need a VMS which works.  FreeVMS seems very far away from that.   @ ...as I'm sure Linux did at one time back in the early 1990's...  H > So, who actually uses FreeVMS, or would be interested in doing so, andG > for what?  Other than hacker types, of course, just doing it for fun.   " Google is your friend on that one.  I > Of course, I assume it is reverse-engineered so probably has as much in ; > common with VMS as the Posix shell on VMS does with unix.   9 Check their website. Don't have the URL handy just now...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.364 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [\FW/~۲@Ny_`lqv	|{|F//*ޑb.9v|7A+~䕇:(ۉ.qx\5['TLр6'P|S4~E9_|쇓J2SHOuTv8o^eϫ^
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