1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 02 Jul 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 365       Contents:$ Re: Alpha comeback gaining steam ...$ Re: AMD vs Intel: links to Compaq/HP8 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20055 Re: Command line equivalent of "Compact This Folder"? 5 Re: Command line equivalent of "Compact This Folder"? 5 Re: Command line equivalent of "Compact This Folder"?  Date to quadword in DCL???? % Re: European VMS Consultants required ) Re: FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS - "funk49" ) Re: FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS - "funk49" * Re: Latest VMS BootCamp instructions forum( Re: Micro$oft woos world's scientists...$ Micro$oft woos world's scientists...( Re: Micro$oft woos world's scientists... Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program  Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program 
 Re: SAN & DFU 
 Re: SAN & DFU 
 Re: SAN & DFU # Re: shareable image, psect and data # Re: shareable image, psect and data # Re: shareable image, psect and data # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality  Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download   Re: VMIC reflective memory crash  Re: VMIC reflective memory crashB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority0 Re: write sequential variable len record from PC; Re: wrong SCSI cable for PWS600 au (msg for Paul Sture too) ; Re: wrong SCSI cable for PWS600 au (msg for Paul Sture too)  Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:36:25 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> - Subject: Re: Alpha comeback gaining steam ... 4 Message-ID: <42c474fa$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:D > In article <1120151830.616693.42250@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > bob@instantwhip.com writes: 3 >> maybe I wasn't so out of touch after all as some  >> here thought ...  >>, >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24284 >> > 6 > Ahhhhh.....   If only it were true.    Sigh.........    J It's the realization during the few milliseconds between the click and theL bang when one realizes that playing Russian Roulette with a loaded gun isn'tF a very smart thing to do. Only Curly, Her Pixieness & Co. weren't that smart.   --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 23:07:03 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com - Subject: Re: AMD vs Intel: links to Compaq/HP - Message-ID: <87r7ejopd4.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ' JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> writes:   # > The AMD official complaint is at: ^ > http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/AMD-Intel_Full_Complaint.pdf > H > It is a scanned document, 48 pages (so I can't copy interesting text).  0 Groklaw will have a text version soon I suspect.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 14:17:02 -0700 ! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 B Message-ID: <1120252622.950668.42040@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  E Can I assume that folks know that anyone can write an article for the  technical journal?   sue    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 17:40:01 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 4 Message-ID: <42c5b944$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:G > Can I assume that folks know that anyone can write an article for the  > technical journal?    G Everyone in c.o.v., ITRC, and probably all those who use Eisner know as L well.. What about all those people at the all those 411,000 installed systemI sites where the people that ought to have known are either all retired or 
 fired by now?   L Do the people at customer sites where HP, or should I really be saying ISV'sF like Cerner and OM, manage to get VMS in the door, know about the TechD Journal? Is there a bright yellow piece of paper packed inside everyG Alphaserver box that the new proud owner can read to find out all about I c.o.v., ITRC, openvms.org, etc... and get 'hooked up' with the community?   H What do Ambassadors do? Do they visit each new install site like WelcomeJ Wagon? Or is it left up the the call center droids at the telephone numberH associated with shopping.hp.com to inform customers about these sorts of things?    Just curious, as are you.            --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 22:20:48 +0100 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 * Message-ID: <42c5c1c0@news.langstoeger.at>  _ In article <42C461E7.F921017@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: ! >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: ^ >> In article <42c30509$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes:0 >> >I created a pcsi$compressed file (I hope)... >>  G >> It would be better to get an ZIPSFX file instead (or in addition)...  > H >ZIP SFX's are specific to a CPU architecture. The archibe would have to* >be duplicated for each SFX stub required.  0 So what ? Do you think space is an issue today ?A Iff space is an issue, .ZIP is _way_ better than .PCSI$COMPRESSED   7 >..ZIPs and .PCSI$COMPRESSEDs are architecture-neutral.   2 only in the form as .PCSI is architecture-neutral.4 .PCSI* are very often only for one specific platform  J >..PCSI$COMPRESSEDs, while less than optimally compressed (ZIP can usuallyI >squezze 'em another 30% or so), do not require further processing before  >handing them off to PRODUCT.   F I want to have a method which doesn't alter the kitfile's creationdate1 during transport !!! And this is only doable with    1) hardware kits (like CDs) / 2) DECnet-over-IP COPY (which HP doesn't offer) @ 3) packaged files (Backup Savesets, DCX Files, ZIP/ZIPSFX files)) 4) maybe FTP/FDL (which HP doesn't offer)   # So, I continue to request ZIPSFX...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 20:24:00 -0700 ! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 B Message-ID: <1120274640.396552.78510@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  E Well John I have about 4K people on my email distribution list that I E talk to on a regular basis, the Ambassadors talk to people regularly, @ its posted on the web and referred to on a number of web sites ID suppose it was a dumb question but I do like to check with the usersF once in awhile, we have had about 23,000 views this year.  I am prettyD sure that our larger ISV's know about the tech journal since some ofG them have written articles. Since even this question can get folks on a B soap box I might as well join the fray,  No I do not put pieces ofB paper in boxes of anything EVER if I can help it.  In fact I avoidE paper when ever I can.  It was the first thing I stopped doing when I F took on the Ambassadors program I thought what a stupid waste of treesF (having hard copy of the presentations, that were always wrong anyway,A folks left the binders in their rooms and still needed electronic - copy).  I came from the DEC networking group.   G I do not understand the need to make fun of my questions or the company G I work for with every question and comment I post are you trying to see ? how much I will take before I stop.   Please do not say its not F personal, its not personal when its not you.  It is personal to me, it? is  my job, its customers I work with and care about, it is the F engineers I care about it is people I see and talk to every day.  This9 constant bickering and cutting down does nothing to help.   9 This was a simple question not deserving of this comment.    sue    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 21:39:48 -0700 ! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 B Message-ID: <1120279188.876279.93450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   JF and everyone else, F And you think posting notes in response here is going to do something?G What? the only people that read this are the folks already doing stuff.   G All this does is make us want to not post any more and give ammo to the  enemy.   sue    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:39:36 GMT 0 From: spud_demon@e.thundermaker.net (Spud Demon)> Subject: Re: Command line equivalent of "Compact This Folder"?- Message-ID: <sIbxe.2$br4.149@news.uswest.net>    Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> writes in article <38Wwe.11823$hK3.9219@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> dated Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:40:15 GMT:G >Well, this is a forum about VMS, not Mozilla. So, here's one answer in ? >Perl: http://search.cpan.org/~kjohnson/NetxAP-0.02/Net/IMAP.pm   F Thanks, Jeff.  If I only knew Perl, I could write a script to send theH appropriate IMAP command.  I was hoping there was a simple MAIL> command4 which would do what I want, that's why I asked here.  6 >You might try asking your question on MozillaZine.org  L Hmmm, I see an option under "Offline and Disk Space" called "Compact folders= when it will save over ___ KB".  I'm going to try that first.   . --Spud Demon		spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 10:17:52 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> > Subject: Re: Command line equivalent of "Compact This Folder"?+ Message-ID: <42C55090.B40B970C@adldata.com>    Spud Demon wrote:  >  > Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> writes in article <38Wwe.11823$hK3.9219@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> dated Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:40:15 GMT:I > >Well, this is a forum about VMS, not Mozilla. So, here's one answer in A > >Perl: http://search.cpan.org/~kjohnson/NetxAP-0.02/Net/IMAP.pm  > H > Thanks, Jeff.  If I only knew Perl, I could write a script to send theJ > appropriate IMAP command.  I was hoping there was a simple MAIL> command6 > which would do what I want, that's why I asked here. > 8 > >You might try asking your question on MozillaZine.org > N > Hmmm, I see an option under "Offline and Disk Space" called "Compact folders? > when it will save over ___ KB".  I'm going to try that first.  > : > --Spud Demon            spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net  > Not sure what you are trying to compress but maybe this helps.  M VMS mail keeps all small mails (up to 3k?) in a file usually called MAIL.MAI, ( usually in your default home directory.   D Larger emails (most of them) are kept in separate files with unique ' names like MAIL$E02CC040000500A3.MAI;1.   F MAIL.MAI has links to the separate files as well as other information J including the name of the (logical) folder (inbox mail wastebasket etc..)  containing the email.   J When you delete an email, it gets moved to the "wastebasket" folder until J it gets purged. Purging is done automatically at some point or you can do & it explicitely with the PURGE command.  N The MAIL.MAI file grows as emails are added. Deleteing/purging emails results O in "holes" in MAIL.MAI but does not make it smaller. COMPRESS makes it smaller.   G VMS mail commands to do this include "PURGE" "PURGE/RECLAIM" "COMPRESS"  mail > help purge  mail > help compress   regards  sol    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 19:38:48 GMT + From: Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: Command line equivalent of "Compact This Folder"?D Message-ID: <cZgxe.11823$jX6.10449@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>   sol gongola wrote: > Spud Demon wrote:  >  >>Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> writes in article <38Wwe.11823$hK3.9219@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> dated Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:40:15 GMT: >>I >>>Well, this is a forum about VMS, not Mozilla. So, here's one answer in A >>>Perl: http://search.cpan.org/~kjohnson/NetxAP-0.02/Net/IMAP.pm  >>H >>Thanks, Jeff.  If I only knew Perl, I could write a script to send theJ >>appropriate IMAP command.  I was hoping there was a simple MAIL> command6 >>which would do what I want, that's why I asked here. >> >>8 >>>You might try asking your question on MozillaZine.org >>N >>Hmmm, I see an option under "Offline and Disk Space" called "Compact folders? >>when it will save over ___ KB".  I'm going to try that first.  >>: >>--Spud Demon            spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net >  > @ > Not sure what you are trying to compress but maybe this helps. > O > VMS mail keeps all small mails (up to 3k?) in a file usually called MAIL.MAI, * > usually in your default home directory.  > F > Larger emails (most of them) are kept in separate files with unique ) > names like MAIL$E02CC040000500A3.MAI;1.  > H > MAIL.MAI has links to the separate files as well as other information L > including the name of the (logical) folder (inbox mail wastebasket etc..)  > containing the email.  > L > When you delete an email, it gets moved to the "wastebasket" folder until L > it gets purged. Purging is done automatically at some point or you can do ( > it explicitely with the PURGE command. > P > The MAIL.MAI file grows as emails are added. Deleteing/purging emails results Q > in "holes" in MAIL.MAI but does not make it smaller. COMPRESS makes it smaller.  > I > VMS mail commands to do this include "PURGE" "PURGE/RECLAIM" "COMPRESS"  > mail > help purge  > mail > help compress > 
 > regards  > sol   = Yep, it looks like IMAP interacts with the user's MAIL files: < http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/6525/6525pro_016.html   Cheers,  jec    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 07:19:33 -0700 - From: "derek pietro" <djpietro@earthlink.net> $ Subject: Date to quadword in DCL????C Message-ID: <1120227573.231069.286610@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   C Can someone point me to something that might lead me to the path of F converting a date string to a binary quadword in DCL? (If its possible there)B If it cant be done in DCL I would like simply to know that as well Thanks!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:18:59 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com . Subject: Re: European VMS Consultants required- Message-ID: <878y0soud8.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   $ Didier MORANDI <no@spam.com> writes:   > Lurker a crit:   C >> You forgot the main one - work permit in EU. Scrap all the other 5 >> points, they are immaterial if you can't get that.   D > Well, that point would be better answered off line, but what I canD > publicly say is that many IT temporary workers agencies faced that5 > problem and solved it in total legality since ages.   F Does right of residence in Benelux count now days? I've not kept fully on top of EU rule changes.  D > Ask friends that you may have who used to contract in Switzerland, > for example.  " "Do you have a Swiss bank acount?" "No."  "Would you like one?"   ' > You know my email address, don't you?    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 08:56:16 -0400$ From: "funk49" <funk49@sympatico.ca>2 Subject: Re: FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS - "funk49"8 Message-ID: <Y5bxe.4163$Ai.608320@news20.bellglobal.com>   Posting to yourself !   : I bet you like to a lot of things by / to / with yourself.  ) Your are a pantload - go flush yourself !   2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:c7219a656c20b130b1fa4d384fc8649c@dizum.com...! > Oops you did it again . . . . .  > ' > "funk49" <funk49@sympatico.ca> wrote:  >  > >Got no life.  > >  > >Got no reason to live.  > >  > >Cross / top polling TROLL > L >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !  > L >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !  > L >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !  > >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > J > >Nomen Nescio - would you just FOAD or would you like me to spell it out for K > >you ? You got a problem with JF Menzi -- tell someone who gives a damn ! 5 > >"Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message 5 > >news:81a0743eefc91dccd41e1371e7d3e20f@dizum.com...  > >> FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS 
 > >>    About 
 > >> JF MEZEI  > >>E > >> The "nobody" troll of rec.travel.air and "John Doe" troll of the  > >> sci.space.* newsgroups. > >> > >> (Rev. June 25, 2005)  > >> > >> Written by: > >> > >> Darrell Larose  > >> 121 Northwestern Ave  > >> Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1  > >> (613) 725-0245 ( > >> c o t a 3 4 8 @ r o g e r s . c o m6 > >> a d 6 0 7 @ F r e e N e t . C a r l e t o n . C A > >> > >> 1.  Who is JF Mezei?  > >>H > >> Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have everH > >> hit rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also9 > >> one of the longest running trolls in usenet history.  > >>H > >> ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME ANDH > >> E-MAIL ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS > >> THEIR MESSAGES.***  > >>J > >> If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitorJ > >> the control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your+ > >> messages, forward a copies of them to: ( > >> a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m( > >> a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m( > >> a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m > >>( > >> See also http://www.usenetabuse.com > >>' > >> 2.  How long has he been trolling?  > >> > >> For well over a decade. > >> > >> 3.  Where does he live? > >> > >> Montreal, Quebec, Canada  > >> > >> Jean-Francois Mezei > >> 86 Harwood Gate > >> Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3 > >> (514) 992-0474  > >> (514) 695-8259  > >>& > >> His current e-mail addresses are:, > >> j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m. > >> j f m e z e i @ v a x i n a t i o n . c a > >>. > >> His website is http://www.vaxination.ca . > >>/ > >> 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  > >>H > >> His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invadesI > >> your newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day K > >> in and day out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He E > >> does not listen to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything 9 > >> anyone tells him, he does not pay attention when the F > >> misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just goesH > >> right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding hisK > >> ears closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you 
 > >> say!" > >>" > >> 5.  What does he troll about? > >>K > >> His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He G > >> hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it H > >> into a USA-bashing fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start > >> making lewd posts.  > >>) > >> 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  > >>J > >> Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who haveJ > >> a visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is aG > >> happier, better, more successful version of their country and they C > >> can't stand it.  Some of JF's favorite troll bait is "the Bush J > >> Regime", "the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans areG > >> brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are  > >> stupid" etc.  > >>( > >> 7.  What about his sexual trolling? > >>J > >> Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.C > >> Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's F > >> genitalia, sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of% > >> course) ... the list is endless.  > >> > >> 8.  Circumcision??? > >>K > >> Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes A > >> to insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then. H > >> Apparently, JF was traumatized as a child because his parents, poorG > >> Hungarian immigrants to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he was G > >> born, as is the custom in most of the world.  Growing up in Canada E > >> where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, he was D > >> psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could heE > >> arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of J > >> circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of aE > >> free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able to G > >> masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin" K > >> getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in , > >> life to spread the circumcision gospel. > >>E > >> 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of  > >> freaky. > >>E > >> Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the J > >> subjects dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls,J > >> especially little boy's foreskins (and how tight they are) and littleE > >> girls' hymens.  He is also a tireless activist and advocate that H > >> children should be taught to masturbate early on so that they don't1 > >> grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".  > >>J > >> He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check theirH > >> little boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit,K > >> proper movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no problems. F > >> Utopia for JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their > >> little boys' penises. > >>E > >> 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the 0 > >> minute!  Are you sure about all this stuff? > >>I > >> Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a , > >> decade full of Mezei trolling in there. > >>H > >> 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the > >> time like all trolls do?  > >>G > >> Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known  > >> trolling aliases. > >>F > >> 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he
 > >> work? > >>J > >> Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, aH > >> grown man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day andE > >> trolls the newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn't K > >> trolling he likes to ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race the ( > >> planes down the runway in his bike. > >>> > >> 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something? > >>I > >> Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never F > >> got past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humorK > >> (i.e. "pull my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been  > >> able to outgrow.  > >>H > >> 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about > >> them, is that true? > >>E > >> Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the G > >> locker room.  He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has B > >> seen in locker rooms over the years, especially his unnaturalK > >> obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the men in locker rooms trying to G > >> measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is left if they K > >> have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case  > >> of phimosis.  > >>E > >> 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an  > >> insane asylum!  > >>I > >> Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin @ > >> foil hat world where others are out to get him.  The key toK > >> understanding JF is that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world I > >> is out to get him, especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all  > >> about.  > >>I > >> What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail I > >> system was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, I > >> spotting trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down at G > >> the train yard like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention to H > >> aviation.  Major events that made him fall head first deep into theH > >> abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines and their subsequentK > >> takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is he that J > >> when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employeesI > >> went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover J > >> up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of@ > >> the crash investigation.  He has never recovered from this. > >>; > >> 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  > >>K > >> His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some J > >> ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has takenF > >> seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits andH > >> social dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the6 > >> good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic! > >>& > >> 17.  Where else does he hang out? > >>E > >> can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky I > >> computer groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he G > >> invaded the sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and K > >> trolled it relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crap J > >> he's so famous for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to goI > >> crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking  > >> his wounds. > >>F > >> 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and > >> doesn't troll.  > >>K > >> Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, so C > >> he slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he F > >> respects comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide hisF > >> trolling activities from them so they won't find out what a major > >> netkook he is.  > >>K > >> 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind  > >> of psycho he is!  > >>J > >> Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And whileK > >> you're at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fido D > >> too.  And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and! > >> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.  > >>9 > >> 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  > >>I > >> Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts  > >> to: > >>( > >> a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m. > >> d n s a d m i n @ t e k s a v v y . c o m( > >> a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m( > >> a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m > >>$ > >> also http://www.usenetabuse.com > >>< > >> You can also call directly, troll free, 1-877-779-1575. > >> > >> TekSavvy Solutions Inc.  > >> 330 Richmond St., Suite 205 > >> Chatham, ON, Canada > >> N7M 1P7 > >>I > >> And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, H > >> email it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it toI > >> newspapers and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do " > >> with Montreal or Canada, etc. > >> > >> > >> *** APPENDIX ***  > >>E > >> List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the K > >> years.  This is only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to  > >> compile a full list.  > >>, > >> j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m< > >> j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ t e k s a v v y . c o m& > >> j f m e z e i @ i s t o p . c o m6 > >> j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ i s t o p . c o m, > >> j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a2 > >> j f m e z e i @ v l . v i d e o t r o n . c a: > >> n o s p a m . j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a@ > >> " j f m e z e i " @ v i d e o t r o n . c a [ n o s p a m ] > >>/ > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . c o m> / > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . n e t> / > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . o r g> 1 > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n f o> / > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n t> 1 > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o t h i n g . n i l> + > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n u l l . d e v>  > >>( > >> Janice Staples <jstaples@noaol.com>. > >> Lorenna Bobbit <lbobbit@ginsu_knives.com>, > >> Lando Calrisian <Lcalrisian@empire.org> > >> muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> " > >> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au>( > >> snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree>. > >> Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>+ > >> Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org> ) > >> Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org> * > >> Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>! > >> Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com> * > >> Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>' > >> Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org> ) > >> Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org> 2 > >> Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>, > >> Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>' > >> Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org>   > >> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>, > >> Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>- > >> Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org> + > >> Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> $ > >> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>, > >> Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>* > >> Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>" > >> Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>& > >> Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>( > >> Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>% > >> Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org> ) > >> Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org> + > >> Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org> ) > >> Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com> / > >> Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> # > >> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org> & > >> Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>$ > >> Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>) > >> Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org> & > >> Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>& > >> Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>% > >> Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org> ) > >> Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> # > >> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org> * > >> Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>* > >> Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>) > >> Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> " > >> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>+ > >> Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com> - > >> Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org> * > >> Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>* > >> Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>+ > >> Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org> / > >> Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com> + > >> Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org> , > >> Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>, > >> Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>- > >> Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org> 1 > >> Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org> 3 > >> Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org>   > >> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>, > >> Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>* > >> Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>) > >> Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org> ' > >> Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com> + > >> Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org> ( > >> Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>- > >> Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org> * > >> Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>' > >> Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org> * > >> Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>+ > >> Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com> , > >> Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>. > >> Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>, > >> Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>' > >> Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org> - > >> Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org> 1 > >> George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org> 0 > >> Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>/ > >> Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org> - > >> Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org> , > >> Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>/ > >> Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> $ > >> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com> > >> Q <queue@continuum.net> > >> Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org> / > >> Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca> . > >> John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca> > >>@ > >> *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:51:43 GMT S From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@earthlink.net> 2 Subject: Re: FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS - "funk49"C Message-ID: <PTbxe.15584$eM6.7308@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   
 funk49 wrote:    > Posting to yourself !  > < > I bet you like to a lot of things by / to / with yourself. > + > Your are a pantload - go flush yourself !     & Now that is just not very nice at all.   --   Best Greg     > 4 > "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message4 > news:c7219a656c20b130b1fa4d384fc8649c@dizum.com...# > > Oops you did it again . . . . .  > > ) > > "funk49" <funk49@sympatico.ca> wrote:  > >  > > >Got no life.  > > >  > > >Got no reason to live.  > > >  > > >Cross / top polling TROLL > >  > L >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !  > >  > L >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !  > >  > L >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !  > > >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > L > > >Nomen Nescio - would you just FOAD or would you like me to spell it out > for K > > >you ? You got a problem with JF Menzi -- tell someone who gives a damn  ! 7 > > >"Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message 7 > > >news:81a0743eefc91dccd41e1371e7d3e20f@dizum.com... ! > > >> FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS  > > >>    About  > > >> JF MEZEI  > > >>G > > >> The "nobody" troll of rec.travel.air and "John Doe" troll of the  > > >> sci.space.* newsgroups. > > >> > > >> (Rev. June 25, 2005)  > > >> > > >> Written by: > > >> > > >> Darrell Larose  > > >> 121 Northwestern Ave  > > >> Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1  > > >> (613) 725-0245 * > > >> c o t a 3 4 8 @ r o g e r s . c o m8 > > >> a d 6 0 7 @ F r e e N e t . C a r l e t o n . C A > > >> > > >> 1.  Who is JF Mezei?  > > >>J > > >> Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have everJ > > >> hit rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also; > > >> one of the longest running trolls in usenet history.  > > >>J > > >> ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME ANDJ > > >> E-MAIL ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS > > >> THEIR MESSAGES.***  > > >>L > > >> If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitorL > > >> the control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your- > > >> messages, forward a copies of them to: * > > >> a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m* > > >> a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m* > > >> a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m > > >>* > > >> See also http://www.usenetabuse.com > > >>) > > >> 2.  How long has he been trolling?  > > >> > > >> For well over a decade. > > >> > > >> 3.  Where does he live? > > >> > > >> Montreal, Quebec, Canada  > > >> > > >> Jean-Francois Mezei > > >> 86 Harwood Gate > > >> Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3 > > >> (514) 992-0474  > > >> (514) 695-8259  > > >>( > > >> His current e-mail addresses are:. > > >> j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m0 > > >> j f m e z e i @ v a x i n a t i o n . c a > > >>0 > > >> His website is http://www.vaxination.ca . > > >>1 > > >> 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll?  > > >>J > > >> His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invadesK > > >> your newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day I > > >> in and day out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  HeG > > >> does not listen to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything ; > > >> anyone tells him, he does not pay attention when the H > > >> misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just goesJ > > >> right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding hisI > > >> ears closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything  you  > > >> say!" > > >>$ > > >> 5.  What does he troll about? > > >>I > > >> His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  HeI > > >> hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it J > > >> into a USA-bashing fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start > > >> making lewd posts.  > > >>+ > > >> 6.  What does he hate about the USA?  > > >>L > > >> Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who haveL > > >> a visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is aI > > >> happier, better, more successful version of their country and they E > > >> can't stand it.  Some of JF's favorite troll bait is "the Bush L > > >> Regime", "the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans areI > > >> brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are  > > >> stupid" etc.  > > >>* > > >> 7.  What about his sexual trolling? > > >>L > > >> Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre.E > > >> Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women's H > > >> genitalia, sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of' > > >> course) ... the list is endless.  > > >> > > >> 8.  Circumcision??? > > >>G > > >> Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still  likes C > > >> to insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then. J > > >> Apparently, JF was traumatized as a child because his parents, poorI > > >> Hungarian immigrants to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he was I > > >> born, as is the custom in most of the world.  Growing up in Canada G > > >> where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, he was F > > >> psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could heG > > >> arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of L > > >> circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of aG > > >> free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able to I > > >> masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin" J > > >> getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in. > > >> life to spread the circumcision gospel. > > >>G > > >> 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of  > > >> freaky. > > >>G > > >> Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the L > > >> subjects dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls,L > > >> especially little boy's foreskins (and how tight they are) and littleG > > >> girls' hymens.  He is also a tireless activist and advocate that J > > >> children should be taught to masturbate early on so that they don't3 > > >> grow up "sexually repressed like Americans".  > > >>L > > >> He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check theirJ > > >> little boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit,C > > >> proper movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no 	 problems. H > > >> Utopia for JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their > > >> little boys' penises. > > >>G > > >> 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the 2 > > >> minute!  Are you sure about all this stuff? > > >>K > > >> Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a . > > >> decade full of Mezei trolling in there. > > >>J > > >> 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the > > >> time like all trolls do?  > > >>I > > >> Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known  > > >> trolling aliases. > > >>H > > >> 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he > > >> work? > > >>L > > >> Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, aJ > > >> grown man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day andG > > >> trolls the newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn't I > > >> trolling he likes to ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race  the * > > >> planes down the runway in his bike. > > >>@ > > >> 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something? > > >>K > > >> Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he never H > > >> got past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humorH > > >> (i.e. "pull my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been > > >> able to outgrow.  > > >>J > > >> 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about > > >> them, is that true? > > >>G > > >> Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the I > > >> locker room.  He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has D > > >> seen in locker rooms over the years, especially his unnaturalJ > > >> obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the men in locker rooms trying toI > > >> measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is left if they H > > >> have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case > > >> of phimosis.  > > >>G > > >> 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an  > > >> insane asylum!  > > >>K > > >> Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin B > > >> foil hat world where others are out to get him.  The key toG > > >> understanding JF is that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the  world K > > >> is out to get him, especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all 
 > > >> about.  > > >>K > > >> What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail K > > >> system was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, K > > >> spotting trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down at I > > >> the train yard like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention to J > > >> aviation.  Major events that made him fall head first deep into theJ > > >> abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines and their subsequentH > > >> takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is he thatL > > >> when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employeesK > > >> went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover L > > >> up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up ofB > > >> the crash investigation.  He has never recovered from this. > > >>= > > >> 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him!  > > >>H > > >> His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to someL > > >> ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has takenH > > >> seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits andJ > > >> social dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the8 > > >> good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic! > > >>( > > >> 17.  Where else does he hang out? > > >>G > > >> can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky K > > >> computer groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster he I > > >> invaded the sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, and H > > >> trolled it relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crapL > > >> he's so famous for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to goK > > >> crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking  > > >> his wounds. > > >>H > > >> 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and > > >> doesn't troll.  > > >>J > > >> Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, soE > > >> he slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large he H > > >> respects comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide hisH > > >> trolling activities from them so they won't find out what a major > > >> netkook he is.  > > >>H > > >> 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind > > >> of psycho he is!  > > >>L > > >> Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while; > > >> you're at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and  alt.cellular.fido F > > >> too.  And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and# > > >> news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.  > > >>; > > >> 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address?  > > >>K > > >> Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts 
 > > >> to: > > >>* > > >> a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m0 > > >> d n s a d m i n @ t e k s a v v y . c o m* > > >> a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m* > > >> a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m > > >>& > > >> also http://www.usenetabuse.com > > >>> > > >> You can also call directly, troll free, 1-877-779-1575. > > >> > > >> TekSavvy Solutions Inc." > > >> 330 Richmond St., Suite 205 > > >> Chatham, ON, Canada > > >> N7M 1P7 > > >>K > > >> And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups, J > > >> email it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it toK > > >> newspapers and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do $ > > >> with Montreal or Canada, etc. > > >> > > >> > > >> *** APPENDIX ***  > > >>G > > >> List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over the J > > >> years.  This is only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to > > >> compile a full list.  > > >>. > > >> j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m> > > >> j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ t e k s a v v y . c o m( > > >> j f m e z e i @ i s t o p . c o m8 > > >> j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ i s t o p . c o m. > > >> j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a4 > > >> j f m e z e i @ v l . v i d e o t r o n . c a< > > >> n o s p a m . j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c aB > > >> " j f m e z e i " @ v i d e o t r o n . c a [ n o s p a m ] > > >>1 > > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . c o m> 1 > > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . n e t> 1 > > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . o r g> 3 > > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n f o> 1 > > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n t> 3 > > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n o t h i n g . n i l> - > > >> nobody <n o b o d y @ n u l l . d e v>  > > >>* > > >> Janice Staples <jstaples@noaol.com>0 > > >> Lorenna Bobbit <lbobbit@ginsu_knives.com>. > > >> Lando Calrisian <Lcalrisian@empire.org>! > > >> muklak <muklak@eskimo.net> $ > > >> Sheep skin <sheep@station.au>* > > >> snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree>0 > > >> Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>- > > >> Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org> + > > >> Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org> , > > >> Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org># > > >> Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com> , > > >> Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>) > > >> Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org> + > > >> Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org> 4 > > >> Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>. > > >> Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>) > > >> Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> " > > >> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>. > > >> Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>/ > > >> Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org> - > > >> Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> & > > >> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>. > > >> Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>, > > >> Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>$ > > >> Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>( > > >> Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>* > > >> Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>' > > >> Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org> + > > >> Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org> - > > >> Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org> + > > >> Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com> 1 > > >> Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> % > > >> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org> ( > > >> Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>& > > >> Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>+ > > >> Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org> ( > > >> Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>( > > >> Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>' > > >> Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org> + > > >> Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> % > > >> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org> , > > >> Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>, > > >> Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>+ > > >> Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> $ > > >> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>- > > >> Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com> / > > >> Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org> , > > >> Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>, > > >> Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>- > > >> Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org> 1 > > >> Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com> - > > >> Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org> . > > >> Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>. > > >> Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>/ > > >> Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org> 3 > > >> Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org> 5 > > >> Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> " > > >> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>. > > >> Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>, > > >> Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>+ > > >> Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org> ) > > >> Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com> - > > >> Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org> * > > >> Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>/ > > >> Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org> , > > >> Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>) > > >> Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org> , > > >> Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>- > > >> Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com> . > > >> Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>0 > > >> Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>. > > >> Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>) > > >> Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org> / > > >> Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org> 3 > > >> George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org> 2 > > >> Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>1 > > >> Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org> / > > >> Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org> . > > >> Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>1 > > >> Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> & > > >> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com> > > >> Q <queue@continuum.net>! > > >> Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org> 1 > > >> Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca> 0 > > >> John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca> > > >>B > > >> *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 15:15:45 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>3 Subject: Re: Latest VMS BootCamp instructions forum + Message-ID: <3ikttvFlca2fU1@individual.net>    Nigel Barker wrote: E > On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 09:40:33 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  >  > f >>In article <429d441c$0$16642$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes: >> >>>Sue, you said:  >>>  >>> H >>>>PLEASE PLEASE have the latest anti-virus software update put on yourI >>>>laptop's, we have noticed that people share a lot of files and we are + >>>>so used to VMS that we assume security.  >>> I >>>Is McAfee a good software to HP's eyes, or should I remove it and put  0 >>>bad old standard Norton back on my HP laptop? >>H >>You should toss the Mickey$haft PeeCee laptop and get a Mac!  Then you% >>wouldn't have to worry about these.  >  > M > There is a version of Norton Antivirus for Macintosh. Are people who buy it  > wasting their money? >   H Warning. From what I recall, Norton Antivirus can do nasty things to OS 2 X. Search comp.sys.mac.system for more info. E.g.:   http://tinyurl.com/8fj37  = "Norton Antivirus has many serious bugs which can completely  A incapacitate a system running OS X 10.3.5 or later, and I do not   recommend using it. 6 In fact, my clients have had great problems with it. "  G Moreover, I gather that the current version will not be updated in the   future.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 09:23:38 -0700 / From: "Dr Tim" <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> 1 Subject: Re: Micro$oft woos world's scientists... C Message-ID: <1120235018.604516.134740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   D Been there, tried that, the battle is lost for over a decade, sorry.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 05:27:25 -0700  From: mb301@hotmail.com - Subject: Micro$oft woos world's scientists... C Message-ID: <1120220845.441311.171140@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F Microsoft's British research arm is looking into what kind of software) scientists will require in the future....   1 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4638583.stm   3 Howabout a competent operating system like OpenVMS?    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 15:57:01 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Re: Micro$oft woos world's scientists... 3 Message-ID: <Pv8qUd3LMyc5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <1120220845.441311.171140@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, mb301@hotmail.com writes: H > Microsoft's British research arm is looking into what kind of software+ > scientists will require in the future....  > 3 > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4638583.stm  > 5 > Howabout a competent operating system like OpenVMS?   H    Doing science programming on VMS is a wonderfull thing.  UnfortunatlyE    most of it is CPU intensive and moved to RISC back when that meant <    undergoing the pain of UNIX.  Its not likey to come back.  D    I do appreciate it when our friend from UMD posts here.  It means    there's some small hope.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 01:34:50 GMT $ From: "Matt" <Matt.@unreachable.com>" Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising< Message-ID: <_41xe.10562$oJ.1087@news-server.bigpond.net.au>  D "Martin Hunt" <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz> wrote in message 2 news:fl44c1tke5fejh7nv9484431c1m4rpommo@4ax.com...* > Running TCP/IP V5.4 ECO 1 on VMS V7.3-2. > E > I have drawn a blank with HP support so far. They have come up with F > "your configuration file doesn't specify where the driftfile is", toH > which I have responded "well, it defaults to sys$sysroot:[tcpip$ntp]",H > and "ntptrace can't access all the servers back to the root". I say itG > shouldn't have to - getting to the next server in the chain should be B > sufficient (we can't get back to the stratum 1 server because of > firewall rules). > H > Anyway, what I am trying to do is synchronise with a stratum 3 server.C > Although I see the server, and its offset details, this server is G > never chosen as a server to synchronise with. The following is output  > from the "ntpq peer" command:  > G >     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  > jitterP > ==============================================================================G > 202.36.54.19    202.36.52.9      3 u   51   64  377    7.813  180758.  > 7.813 H > *LOCAL(0)        LOCAL(0)         8 l   58   64  377    0.000    0.000 > 7.813  > G > Note that we are synchronising with ourselves as a fallback position, < > but would prefer to synchronise with the stratum 3 server. > ! > The following is from ntptrace:  > E > 202.36.54.19: stratum 3, offset 181.292783, synch distance 10.24707 D > 202.36.52.9: stratum 2, offset 181.312063, synch distance 10.17047 > 172.24.156.68:  *Timeout*  > G > I have previously been able to synchronise to clocks on the internet, / > but new security policies do not permit this.  > > > How can I debug this, and find out why it won't synchronise? > E > Also, has anyone had any experience with stratum 1 servers, such as F > ones which synchronise from GPS? I am tempted to look at that option > as an alternative. >   J Just a quick point of fact... we have recently released ECO-5, so you may E want to consider upgrading.  A quick scan of the ECO's for NTP don't  0 indicate any fixes that would affect you though.  > > How can I debug this, and find out why it won't synchronise?    : Generally, with NTP problems, I like to see the output of:  2     1. LOG files and OPCOM messages (reply/enable)4     2. ntpdate -q <server>  ! NTP must be shutdown:  @sys$startup:tcpip$ntp_shutdown B     3. ntpq  ! NTP must be started: @sys$startup:tcpip$ntp_startup        ntpq> lassociations-        nptq> mreadlist <assID1 > <assID2> ...    Matt.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:55:29 +1200 6 From: Martin Hunt <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz>" Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising8 Message-ID: <uv79c1hsedr8h5ou654aqmi2he7a75blf7@4ax.com>  A On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:37:45 GMT, Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com>  wrote:  8 >Martin Hunt <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.remove.co.nz> wrote:G >> ntpq displays offsets in milliseconds - so the difference is about 3  >> minutes.  > D >Still, there is a limit at which ntpd (on other platforms at least)F >will refuse to synchronize, so if you do not have an ntpdate command,A >you may want to set time manually to be rather closer than it is  >presently and try ntpd again.  E The 3 minutes is mainly due ntp not synchronising for 2 months or so. E NTP running normally will synchronise with this difference by jumping # the clock, rather than drifting it.   C I have now synchronised the clock, by running NTP from the UCX V4.2 C distribution. It is not as sophisticated as V5.3, but does the job. F But, VAXes running the newer version of NTP refuse to synchronise with it.   F It's as if NTP is refusing to synchronise unless it can connect to allF the clocks right back to the source. If this is so, it is a ridiculous requirement.   > C >Any chance of getting a second "proper" time server in the config?   > Probably not. As far as I know, there is only one which we areE officially allowed to connect to. I am told that this synchronises to A another internal system, which then synchronises to the internet.    >  >rick jones      ---  Martin Hunt  Systems Administrator  Fairfax New Zealand Limited 
 Wellington New Zealand    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 21:36:20 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) " Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising3 Message-ID: <5SX4v4wIoCix@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <ZZWwe.7878$f36.7861@news.cpqcorp.net>, Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com> writes:  E > Still, there is a limit at which ntpd (on other platforms at least)  > will refuse to synchronize,   6 	Right.  By default, WAYTOOBIG (ntp 4.0 Multinet calls 	it xntp) is 4000 seconds.  6 	And just when you get to know something... in ntp 5.0 	it is now known as panic:  ] http://www.process.com/tcpip/mndocs/MN%20v5.0%20Installation%20Administrator%20Guide/Ch14.htm    panic max_adjust_time   O Set the maximum time change that will be allowed, in seconds. If non-zero, this J value should always be at least 4000 to allow for DST time changes even onF systems with large time errors. This was known as "WAYTOOBIG" in XNTP.  L If set to zero, the panic sanity check is disabled and a clock offset of any' value will be accepted and acted upon.     ---   B 	Appears that waytoobig was/is a generic ntp 4.0 thing.  I suppose< 	"panic" is an ntp 5.0 thing (not just Multinet) but haven't 	dug around. 	  				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:55:43 -0400 ' From: John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net> " Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising8 Message-ID: <hrb9c1dljtqh5kqpcqa8qtg4p5gs6kagp0@4ax.com>  / On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:55:29 +1200, Martin Hunt + <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz> wrote:    > G >It's as if NTP is refusing to synchronise unless it can connect to all G >the clocks right back to the source. If this is so, it is a ridiculous 
 >requirement.   C Actually, it's a perfectly reasonable requirement.  Only by linking D back to NIST (or the national equivalent, since they all cooperate),8 directly or indirectly, can NTP know about leap seconds.  @ Put it to your boss this way: security costs money.  If he wants= the additional security of not having even an NTP link to the > Internet through a firewall, and he wants accurate time on the> computers, he should be willing to spring for the $2500 clock.%     John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 23:03:12 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com " Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising- Message-ID: <87zmt7opjj.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   8 Martin Hunt <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz> writes:  I >>> I have previously been able to synchronise to clocks on the internet, 1 >>> but new security policies do not permit this.   > Well, then they will have to stump up a time source for you...   ...   ; > My ntp.conf file is much simpler than than. It just has a > > "driftfile" line and a few servers are defined. There are no > "restrict" lines.   B I have the driftfile, a single server and all the others listed as> peers. The server is my linux system with the modem, it chimes several st1/2 time sources.    So far, `it just works'.  ? If you have a `local' as a clock source, get rid of it. It will @ be 127.127.something. Just let the machine xtal free run with no ntp control.  B The best way if the idiots keep ntp blocked and don't provide time@ machines for internal use is a T64 box with an Oncore-T GPS. See ntp.org for hints.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 23:05:35 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com " Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising- Message-ID: <87vf3vopfk.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   8 Martin Hunt <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz> writes:  B >>Unless I'm mistaken, if the time difference between "server" andE >>"client" is more than an hour, NTP will refuse to synchronize.  Can F >>you get together with the owner of the stratum-3 server, and compareF >>his system time with yours?  Also, check the NTP log on VMS; perhapsB >>there is an error message which indicates that the offset is too >>large?  0 ntp will declare the server insane at 128msec...  F > ntpq displays offsets in milliseconds - so the difference is about 3
 > minutes.     --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 14:19:52 -0700 ! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com " Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobby ProgramC Message-ID: <1120252792.754939.159850@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   @ I am sorry to bother everyone but would folks mind putting theirF stories in the contest on www.openvms.org its in red right at the top?F We have had about 8 folks submit their stories and they are very good, but some here are even better.   You folks are really creative.  
 Warm Regards,  Sue    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:47:43 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program* Message-ID: <da1sqg$cd$1@news01.intel.com>  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:  "    Joining the choir a bit late...  H > I have a few questions for this newsgroup.  You can reply here or send5 > me mail either to my hotmail account or my hp mail.  > 0 > Do you find the VMS Hobbyist Program valuable?       Yes, _invaluable_ as it were!  ' > How do you use your Hobbyist license?   E    The obvious part, for my home VMS system.  My wife uses the system F for word processing (she's a writer, but I taught her EVE and TeX lestD she be frustrated and distracted by Word and page formatting, etc.),C and I use it for occassional software development, testing freeware E packages and the like.  There are things I just wouldn't try at work!   F > Since the license needs to be renewed each year, how do you do that? > Do you get the CD's?  D     Montagar does the trick.  E-mail'd back to my work address, thenB carried home on tape or my laptop.  I'm fortunate at the moment toC be able to borrow VMS and layered product CDs from work, although I 6 did purchase an initial distro from the Hobbiest site.  D > Give me one improvement you would make - be realistic (every hobbyH > costs something) even if you collected worms you would need a place to > put them.   6     Layered product downloads, in one form or another.  " > What type of machine do you use?  @     Islandco PWS600au. :-)  Nice machine, but noisy in the front	 room. :-o   I > The hobbyist program is currently available on VAX, Alpha and Integrity A > how do you think folks will use the hobby license on Integrity?   G     Given my employer, I'd love to do Integrity as soon as a personally   affordable system was available.   > Thanks for your time.   F     And thank *you*, Sue, for everything you do for the VMS community!  
 	Regards, Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:34:14 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> Subject: Re: SAN & DFU+ Message-ID: <da1s19$vq3$1@news01.intel.com>    David J Dachtera wrote: 
 > alex wrote:  >  >>Ken, >> >>Thanks for your reply.H >>You are quite right, our intensions are to use DEFRAG in a VMS-clusterC >>environment and we are asking if its working in such environment.  >  > B > I should think it would, but I'd question DFG's value in the SANE > environment. Unless the disk clusters are the same size as the RAID H > "chunks", seems to me that there'd be some substantial conflict tryingC > to shuffle extents around if the extents are less than a "chunk".   B     Just to be clear, "SAN" is a pretty vague term when describing> a storage configuration.  Storage Attached Network?  What does& that mean?  (Rhetorically speaking...)  @     For various reasons, but mostly availability, we use the SANA storage as JBOD, then use VMS HBVS alone, or with host-based RAID B (0+1), to configure our volumes.  VMS will happily fragment either6 with the churn of file creations and deletions we see.  <     While something like an EVA presents volumes that may beC "complicated" internally, spread across a number of physical disks, E I don't see why the volume fragmentation issue would be any different E from VMS's point of view: it's still going to hurt performance if you G jump between widely separated LBNs and if you files have a large number  of extension headers, etc.  >     It may be that the EVA has such great performance compared@ to HSG/SCSI storage that a highly fragmented EVA volume performs= better than a "pristine", defragmented HSG volume, but you're ; still going to suffer _some_ performance hit relative to an  unfragmented EVA volume, no?          -Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 00:59:57 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: SAN & DFU6 Message-ID: <00A46125.FDA1BC71@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  Z In article <da1s19$vq3$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> writes: >David J Dachtera wrote: >> alex wrote: >>   >>>Ken,  >>>  >>>Thanks for your reply. I >>>You are quite right, our intensions are to use DEFRAG in a VMS-cluster D >>>environment and we are asking if its working in such environment. >>   >>  C >> I should think it would, but I'd question DFG's value in the SAN F >> environment. Unless the disk clusters are the same size as the RAIDI >> "chunks", seems to me that there'd be some substantial conflict trying D >> to shuffle extents around if the extents are less than a "chunk". > C >    Just to be clear, "SAN" is a pretty vague term when describing ? >a storage configuration.  Storage Attached Network?  What does ' >that mean?  (Rhetorically speaking...)    <PICKY>  SAN = "Storage Area Network"  NAS = "Network-Attached Storage" </PICKY>  I (Snippage of perfectly sensible response about there still being utility  J in defragmenting the disk images that VMS sees, even if those are actually@ made up of indeterminately-located chunks of storage on an EVA.)  F Oh, and Geoff Bryant asked me at the boot camp to say "hi" to you, not, realizing you weren't still here.  So, "hi".   -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:43:30 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> Subject: Re: SAN & DFU+ Message-ID: <da49tg$3o5$1@news01.intel.com>   , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:\ > In article <da1s19$vq3$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> writes: >  >>David J Dachtera wrote:  >> >>>alex wrote: >>>  >>>  >>>>Ken, >>>> >>>>Thanks for your reply.J >>>>You are quite right, our intensions are to use DEFRAG in a VMS-clusterE >>>>environment and we are asking if its working in such environment.  >>>  >>> C >>>I should think it would, but I'd question DFG's value in the SAN F >>>environment. Unless the disk clusters are the same size as the RAIDI >>>"chunks", seems to me that there'd be some substantial conflict trying D >>>to shuffle extents around if the extents are less than a "chunk". >>C >>   Just to be clear, "SAN" is a pretty vague term when describing @ >>a storage configuration.  Storage Attached Network?  What does( >>that mean?  (Rhetorically speaking...) >  > 	 > <PICKY>  > SAN = "Storage Area Network"" > NAS = "Network-Attached Storage"
 > </PICKY>  :      You know, age makes one more forgetful, but the added< experience makes it easier to fit plausible words to any and( all acronyms one might encounter...  ;-}  K > (Snippage of perfectly sensible response about there still being utility  L > in defragmenting the disk images that VMS sees, even if those are actuallyB > made up of indeterminately-located chunks of storage on an EVA.) > H > Oh, and Geoff Bryant asked me at the boot camp to say "hi" to you, not. > realizing you weren't still here.  So, "hi".  C     Hi to both of you! :-)  I wouldn't be surprized to see Geoff in D New Orleans this September along a bunch of old c.o.v faces from theC past (my past anyway).  Say hello to the SLACers for me, especially  the 2nd Floor group.  
 	Regards, Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 08:32:19 -0400+ From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> , Subject: Re: shareable image, psect and dataA Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0507010800010.23264@frank.harvard.edu>   ) On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Chip Coldwell wrote:   * > On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Hoff Hoffman wrote: > E >>  The C compiler has an /EXTERN_MODEL specification, which can come  >>  into play. > J > I think I get what you mean.  To get behavior like a Unix strict-ANSI C  > compiler, what I want is > - > CC/EXTERN_MODEL=STRICT_REFDEF/SHARE_GLOBALS  >  > right? > I > Does this eliminate the need for passing a SYMBOL_VECTOR to the linker?   I I did some more reading (including Hoff's "Ask the Wizard" articles) and  H some experiments and I think I can answer my own questions now. I tried H different combinations of CFLAGS and checked to see what GSD subrecords H were contained in the resulting object for symbols that refer to global 
 variables:   CFLAGS				EGSD$C_SYM	EGSD$C_PSC " /EXTERN_MODEL=COMMON_BLOCK	NO		YES% /EXTERN_MODEL=RELAXED_REFDEF	YES		YES # /EXTERN_MODEL=STRICT_REFDEF	YES		NO ! /EXTERN_MODEL=GLOBALVALUE	YES		NO   G The meaning for these options is the same as the corresponding #pragmas L http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/c/docs/5492profile_020.html#prag_extern        *  Common block model  ?  	All declarations are definitions, and the linker combines all G  	definitions with the same name into one definition. This is the model E  	traditionally used for extern data by VAX C on OpenVMS VAX systems.         * Relaxed ref/def model  E  	Some declarations are references and some are definitions. Multiple H  	uninitialized definitions for the same object are allowed and resolvedI  	into one by the linker. However, a reference requires that at least one G  	definition exists. This model is used by C compilers on UNIX systems.         * Strict ref/def model   B  	Some declarations are references and some are definitions. There>  	must be exactly one definition in the program for any symbolE  	referenced.  This model is the only one guaranteed to be acceptable E  	to all standard C implementations. It is also the one used by VAX C D  	for globaldef and globalref data. The relaxed ref/def model is the  	default model on HP C.        * Globalvalue model  A  	This is like the strict ref/def model, except that these global @  	objects have no storage; they are, instead, link-time constant;  	values.  This model is used by VAX C globalvalue symbols.   K So the model is: if the linker might have to overlay symbols with the same  J name from several objects, the compiler creates a PSECT in the object for F those symbols.  Otherwise, if the compiler knows that storage for the D global variable will come from exactly one object (strict_refdef or H globalvalue), there is no need for an overlay and therefore no PSECT is  created.  ' The various extern models correspond to   - COMMON_BLOCK: the linker will have to overlay 0 RELAXED_REFDEF: the linker might have to overlay/ STRICT_REFDEF: the linker won't have to overlay - GLOBALVALUE: the linker won't have to overlay   D So, the answer to my original question about SYMBOL_VECTORs is:  Use   SYMBOL_VECTOR(FOO=PSECT)  E if the symbol "FOO" will be overlaid (/EXTERN_MODEL=COMMON_BLOCK) and    SYMBOL_VECTOR(FOO=DATA)   F if the symbol "FOO" won't be overlaid (/EXTERN_MODEL=STRICT_REFDEF or  /EXTERN_MODEL=GLOBALVALUE).   K Now, suppose you used, /EXTERN_MODEL=RELAXED_REFDEF in the CFLAGS, but the  K source code actually played by the rules and defined the symbol in exactly  A one object.  Would there still be a PSECT in the shareable image?   F As for the SYMBOL_VECTOR, I think it has to be included in the linker C options when generating a shareable image no matter what, since it  I specifies not only the names of the universal symbols but also the order   that they appear in the GST.   Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell Turn on, log in, tune out    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:10:04 -0400 2 From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@physics.harvard.edu>, Subject: Re: shareable image, psect and dataA Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506301905480.14885@frank.harvard.edu>   ( On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Hoff Hoffman wrote:  D >  The C compiler has an /EXTERN_MODEL specification, which can come
 >  into play.   H I think I get what you mean.  To get behavior like a Unix strict-ANSI C  compiler, what I want is  + CC/EXTERN_MODEL=STRICT_REFDEF/SHARE_GLOBALS    right?  G Does this eliminate the need for passing a SYMBOL_VECTOR to the linker?    Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell "turn on, log in, tune out"    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 07:19:43 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: shareable image, psect and data3 Message-ID: <Iwc+D2ZCO1Cj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0506301641010.13946@login.physics.harvard.edu>, Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> writes:   D > I'm trying to grok this sentence: "The PSECT is still generated soC > that you can mix VAX C objects and DEC C objects on a VAX."  That F > would seem to imply that the PSECT is useless on Alpha, unless thereG > is some other language compiler (Alpha Fortran?) that uses PSECTs for  > global variables.   F    Yes, I believe DEC Fortran is still using PSECTS for COMMON blocks.    It's a good match.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:09:18 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality( Message-ID: <opss83lsaazgicya@hyrrokkin>  I On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 19:26:11 GMT, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing   ' <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:   G > In article <42c4f4ad$0$28094$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi   " > <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:/ >> Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: ; >>> In article <42C46513.BD7F2ECD@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei   " >>> <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> writes: >>>  >>>> Dan Notov wrote:  >>>>I >>>>> F16 and F22 made and continues to make exensive use of VMS on these J >>>>> programs. Most aircraft programs get locked into a certain computingF >>>>> envinronment due to certificatation of the HW and SW involved.   >>>>> Rehosting J >>>>> the solution(s) is very difficult because the cost of recertifying   >>>>> is so  >>>>> high.  >>>>> ! >>>>> CHARON-VAX helps out a lot.  >>>> >>>>F >>>> And that, my friends, says a hell of a lot about HP's claims that6 >>>> customers will easily migrate to that IA64 thing. >>>>K >>>> If staying with VAX for so many years is necessary for some customers, 9 >>>> then so will staying with Alpha for other customers.  >>>>J >>>> In the end, Alpha customers will be buying lenovo or Dell machines 64J >>>> bit machines and run Charon-Alpha on it to continue their operations. >>>  >>> J >>> Not if HP will only support and license the notional Charon-Alpha on   >>> I64.  (Not- >>> that I  have any idea about their plans.)  >>>  >>> -- Alan  >>L >> The new CHARON-VAX 66x0 emulates all VAX CPUs, and it seems that SRI is  
 >> working- >> on the same kind of result for CHARON-AXP.  >>5 >> See http://www.softresint.com/charon-axp/index.htm  > F > At the risk that my spending any more time on what was basically a   > wisecrack B > will give the false impression that I have a position to defend: > G > JF was saying that Alpha customers, rather than buy I64, would end up J > running CHARON-AXP on  generic X86-64 machines from other sources than   > HP, H > based on what seems to be the fact that quite a few VAX customers haveK > ended up running CHARON-VAX.  I was suggesting that HP is in a position    > toK > lower the likelihood of that happening by only allowing license transfers K > to, and only offering support for, VMS on CHARON-AXP if it's running on    > anH > HP I64 box, in which case they'd still get hardware revenue from those > Alpha replacements.   H Of course,  VMS mangement might get really smart and realize that they   would H a lot more money as a software company, and get out of the box business! > J > (That is, this is all a speculative marketing/licensing interchange, not > a technical interchange.)  > 0 > Your remark seems like a non sequitur to that. > 	 > -- Alan  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 17:42:12 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality4 Message-ID: <42c5b9c7$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:D > In article <3ikpe1Flvo06U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill > Gunshannon) writes: 6 >> In article <hUUYr3YJjzla@eisner.encompasserve.org>,2 >> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:F >>> In article <3ijcl7Fln056U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill >>> Gunshannon) writes:  >>> G >>>> Read my lips.  While the bids, during the procurement process, are C >>>> classified and treated as "trade secrets" once the contract is & >>>> awarded it is public information. >>> * >>> From a current US government contract: >>> E >>> "Except as may be otherwise provided herein, the Contractor shall B >>>  not refer to the XXX or to any of its XXXs, organizations, orE >>>  facilities in any manner or through any medium, whether written, B >>>  oral or visual, for any prupose whatsoever, including but not@ >>>  limited to, advertising marketing, promotion, publicity, or< >>>  solicitation, without the prior written approval of the >>> Contracting Officer."  >>E >> One, that appears to be for a specific contract.  I would need the ? >> rest of the contract to try to determine why they might have D >> included that. My guess is the contract is at least an inch thick >> and not a fun read. >>? >> Two, that statement not withstanding, unless the contract is F >> classified anyone can file an FOIA request with the contract number@ >> and get a copy of it which they can then publish in the localE >> newspaper if they wish thus making the statement rather toothless.  > H > Not at all.  FOIA does not restrict _you_ from doing that, but it doesE > restrict the contract _signatory_ from doing that, which is what we 8 > were discussing - HP publicizing government contracts. > G > Presumably any signatory who colluded to have _you_ go the FOIA route ) > would find the contract quite toothful.     J So Ken Farmer could 'hear' 2nd-hand about these via the grapevine, requestL under FOIA, and then freely post and even make up ads that could go into the Wall Street Journal?   Sorry to drag you in Ken.    --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 17:44:33 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality4 Message-ID: <42c5ba54$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:H >>>  marketing, promotion, publicity, or solicitation, without the prior2 >>>  written approval of the Contracting Officer." >>E >> One, that appears to be for a specific contract.  I would need the ? >> rest of the contract to try to determine why they might have  >> included that.  >  > A > It would be pretty standard to have that in. You don't want the A > vendor to start bragging about aspects which are private to the 9 > customer. And you don't have to be within the military.  > F > Back when Montreal was big enough to have a stock exchange, and backG > when DEC was smart enough to win that account, when the time came for G > Toronto to look at replacement for their old systems, the toronto DEC G > salespersons tried very hard to get the montreal sales rep to divulge B > tons of information about the montreal exchange (even internallyD > within DEC) and he was under strict instructions not to reveal anyF > details which may reveal some of the competitive advantages montrealB > had over toronto due to the use of VMS and the software to run a > stock exchange.     L The ME had a decent VMS environment and better application software than the TSE.  A They ran some Mira's initially as I recall, and maybe FT's later.    --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 11:57:53 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality+ Message-ID: <3ikpe1Flvo06U1@individual.net>   3 In article <hUUYr3YJjzla@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:X > In article <3ijcl7Fln056U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > E >> Read my lips.  While the bids, during the procurement process, are I >> classified and treated as "trade secrets" once the contract is awarded  >> it is public information. > ( > From a current US government contract: > G > "Except as may be otherwise provided herein, the Contractor shall not G >  refer to the XXX or to any of its XXXs, organizations, or facilities H >  in any manner or through any medium, whether written, oral or visual,H >  for any prupose whatsoever, including but not limited to, advertisingF >  marketing, promotion, publicity, or solicitation, without the prior0 >  written approval of the Contracting Officer."  G One, that appears to be for a specific contract.  I would need the rest F of the contract to try to determine why they might have included that.F My guess is the contract is at least an inch thick and not a fun read.  G Two, that statement not withstanding, unless the contract is classified G anyone can file an FOIA request with the contract number and get a copy E of it which they can then publish in the local newspaper if they wish + thus making the statement rather toothless.   G It also says you merely have to ask, not that you can not say anything.    > K > Granted, that is for consulting service rather than for sale of hardware.   ? Pretty much the same rules, but much less to brag about anyway.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 30 Jun 2005 23:13:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality+ Message-ID: <3ijcl7Fln056U1@individual.net>   * In article <42c45fec@usenet01.boi.hp.com>,! 	Dan Notov <d9nn0@hp.com> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:U >> In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650F7E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, - >> 	"Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:  >>   >>> -----Original Message----- >>> & >>>>From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=20C >>>>[mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon  >>>>Sent: June 30, 2005 9:18 AM  >>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 >>>>Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality >>>>=20 8 >>>>In article <42c3ec6d$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>,* >>>>	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >>>> >>>>>Main, Kerry wrote:  >>>>> C >>>>>>I find it really hard to believe that this is not also the=20  >>>> >>>>same thing >>>>" >>>>>>that is happening in the US. >>>> >>>>=20 D >>>>Once again, with the exception of certain black projects all DODG >>>>(and I am sure other gov't procurements, but I only have first-hand H >>>>experience with DOD) procurements are public knowledge and the RFP'sH >>>>are required to be published in the CBD.  Explain to me why HP can'tH >>>>announce it is bidding on and later that it won some of these RFP's? >>>>=20  >>> H >>>Bill, you do not seem to understand how the RFP stuff actually works. >>   >>  J >> Kerry, actually, I do.  I have done it from both sides.  I have writtenG >> RFP's and I have helped put together bids on them.  I haven't always ) >> been in this academic ivory tower! :-)  >>   >>  K >>>Vendors do not announce "we are bidding on XYZ RFP". It is always a game D >>>where you try to figure out who the competition is and what theirH >>>strategy will be.  Some of the games include submitting clarificationE >>>questions (these are allowed and the crown responds to all bidders  >>   >>  C >> Sorry, we don't have any crowns down here and the original topic  >> was regarding the US DOD. >>   >>  G >>>without any indication who asked the question) which will put one of > >>>your perceived competitors in a tougher position to respond >>>successfully. >>   >>  / >> That part is pretty much the same down here.  >>   >>  I >>>RFP responding is always a big cat-n-mouse game and if not successful, C >>>no vendor will admit it lost or even participated in the bid.=20  >>   >>  E >> We don't care about the ones HP looses.  We want to hear about the A >> ones they win.  Down here, the RFP and in most cases the final C >> contract are public information.  If you want, I can probably go C >> out ont he web and find ancient reports of some of the ones that C >> the companies I worked for did during my tenure with them.  None C >> of it was secret and after winning we tended to plaster them all F >> over every headline we could grab.  It was free advertising for theE >> company and it tended to rub the competitors' noses in it as well.  >>   >> Try google on "ulana2". >>   >>  H >>>>>>Do you think the govt does not have strict rules about vendor biasG >>>>>>when speaking or being quoted publicly in any type of an official  >>>>>>capacity?  >>>>>  >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20B >>>>>This is quite true. I've been on the receiving end of this=20 >>>> >>>>with one app we  >>>>C >>>>>built - at the time and for a long while it was the one and=20  >>>> >>>>only solution in >>>>? >>>>>the marketplace that a specific government dept./agency=20  >>>> >>>>thought was great  >>>>< >>>>>and liked it to be widely used among capital markets=20 >>>> >>>>participants, they >>>>A >>>>>could not and would not open their mouths to recommend us=20  >>>> >>>>to anyone. Their >>>>B >>>>>words to us were, "We cannot be seen favoring or promoting=20 >>>> >>>>one vendor". >>>> >>>>>=20 >>>> >>>>=20 @ >>>>NUtt hat only means the gov't can't say "Company A is better> >>>>than sliced bread".  There is no bias in saying "Company A> >>>>bid on RFP 5X389275B and was selected and awarded Contract@ >>>>Q5693D786 for which they will provide 10 HP XP1000's running= >>>>OpenVMS Version 8.3."  No bias, just a statement of fact. B >>>>And then HP can say "We won Contract Q5693D786 and here is the4 >>>>reason why we were chosen #1 for this proposal." >>>>=20 D >>>>Unless, HP never bids on any of these, not even as the equipment" >>>>provider to someone like LMCO. >>>>=20  >>> J >>>Just because you do not read about it in the press, assuming HP and itsG >>>partners does not bid OpenVMS (and win occasionally) on specific DOD C >>>contracts is ridiculous. DOD is likely one of the biggest single 4 >>>Customers that any vendor could potentially have. >>   >>  F >> Then why doesn't HP come right out and show it!!!  That's the pointF >> people are trying to make here.  The information isn't secret, it'sH >> public "BY LAW" (at least down here). If this is valuable advertisingH >> opportunity and HP doesn't use it, what conclusion should be derived?7 >> Either they don't win any or they really don't care.  >>   >>  B >>>And contrary to some of the allegations here, many DOD folks doH >>>understand the issues of security when dealing with commodity off theG >>>shelf server platforms and their vendor recommended monthly security  >>>patches.  >>   >>  A >> As well we should.  But that is still side-stepping the issue.  >>  C >> Why doesn't HP take advantage of the tremendous free advertising E >> availability they would get from publishing powerful news releases 2 >> about these (supposed) major DOD contract wins? > J > The announcement will be some dry disclosure in some public document or  > trade rag.  G When TRW won the first ULANA Contract it was plastered across the front E pages of every major trade journal.  When TRW won NADN (a sale so big D that the salesman who closed the deal was not allowed, by law, to beE paid his usual percentage!!) It was no only on the trade journals but G even made papers like the Washington Post.  The same was true when MMDS 2 won the USMA network and academic computer system.   > H > Publishing a reference as you describe still requires buy-in from the C > sponsor. You just cannot unilaterally announce something without  ? > permission. Also, some contractual documents preclude public  # > announcements without permission.   B Read my lips.  While the bids, during the procurement process, areF classified and treated as "trade secrets" once the contract is awardedA it is public information.  That's the law.  It would have to be a B direct threat to national security to be classified in any way andD who has or where a computer system is located just doesn't meet thatC requirement in the majority of cases.  It is the data stored on the > computer that makes it classified. not who bought it or where.  E Stop beating around the bush.  If everybody else can tell about their B government wins, why can't VMS?  Unless, HP has stopped bidding in the first place.  D As an interesting side note, while looking for the stuff on ULANA-2,F I found a site that listed a number of Open Ended contracts to provideA all kinds of computer equipment to the government.  All of these  D contracts, although specific to certain agencies like NASA and USAF,> can be piggy-backed onto by any government agency.  There wereA contracts going back to the 90's, some marked closed (like ULANA) C but many going until 2007-2008.  It is interesting that HP actually ? shows up in at least three of them by name.  Providing Unix and B Windows, no mention of VMS systems at all.  I guess it is VMS that' is classified rather than the contract.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:01:23 -0600  From: Dan Notov <d9nn0@hp.com>, Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality, Message-ID: <42c487d3$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Dan Notov wrote: > E >>F16 and F22 made and continues to make exensive use of VMS on these F >>programs. Most aircraft programs get locked into a certain computingJ >>envinronment due to certificatation of the HW and SW involved. RehostingJ >>the solution(s) is very difficult because the cost of recertifying is so >>high.  >> >>CHARON-VAX helps out a lot.  >  >  > C > And that, my friends, says a hell of a lot about HP's claims that 3 > customers will easily migrate to that IA64 thing.  > H > If staying with VAX for so many years is necessary for some customers,7 > then so will staying with Alpha for other customers.   > G > In the end, Alpha customers will be buying lenovo or Dell machines 64 J > bit machines and run Charon-Alpha on it to continue their operations. (II > assume Charon-Alpha will come out not long after HP stops selling alpga  > machines soon.H IF the COTS software was not available on Alpha, then it is a certainty E that they will not be there on Integrity. Framemaker 4, for example.  G What do we do with all that documentation created in the late 80's and  > 90's if they cannot rehost to another product without a major & recertification of the software stack.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:02:05 -0600  From: Dan Notov <d9nn0@hp.com>, Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality* Message-ID: <42c487fe@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Dan Notov wrote: > G >>Publishing a reference as you describe still requires buy-in from the B >>sponsor. You just cannot unilaterally announce something without> >>permission. Also, some contractual documents preclude public# >>announcements without permission.  >  > J > Yep. and you won't get permission if you don't even ask for it. Those HPG > employtees who reluctantly agree to sell a VMS stystem know full well G > that VMS isn't marketed and won't bother asking for the right to brag  > about that sale. > ? > But Those HP employees who sell Microsoft systems to the same G > organisation will take the effort to ask for permission and generally G > get it (with some restrictions, of course) and they will use this big G > time not only to bolster's HP's image, but for the kickbacks they get  > from Microsoft and Intel.  > G > Where there is a will, there is a way. As long as there is no will to * > market VMS, a way won't event be sought.C So people sell both/all, and work for references, only to have the   customer say no.   /danno   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 00:53:46 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing), Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality6 Message-ID: <00A46125.20A506FC@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  T In article <42C46513.BD7F2ECD@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> writes: >Dan Notov wrote: F >> F16 and F22 made and continues to make exensive use of VMS on theseG >> programs. Most aircraft programs get locked into a certain computing K >> envinronment due to certificatation of the HW and SW involved. Rehosting K >> the solution(s) is very difficult because the cost of recertifying is so  >> high. >>   >> CHARON-VAX helps out a lot. >  > B >And that, my friends, says a hell of a lot about HP's claims that2 >customers will easily migrate to that IA64 thing. > G >If staying with VAX for so many years is necessary for some customers, 6 >then so will staying with Alpha for other customers.  > F >In the end, Alpha customers will be buying lenovo or Dell machines 64F >bit machines and run Charon-Alpha on it to continue their operations.  O Not if HP will only support and license the notional Charon-Alpha on I64.  (Not ) that I  have any idea about their plans.)    -- Alan    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 21:26:52 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality3 Message-ID: <2duoQ6qsln2E@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <42C425AD.79741658@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> writes:   > E > When HP brags about Tandem machines at NASDAQ, do they give details @ > about what they really do ? No. "They just process millions of > transactions".   >   @ 	Non-Stop is for the first tier (at least it was 2 years ago)...= 	the other two tiers (mid-tier and backend) are Windows based   * http://www.onwindows.com/article.asp?id=25   The first tier receives B quotation information from SuperMontage's Hewlett-Packard Non-Stop; Computing mainframe platform. The second tier processes and E maintains the data, while the third tier disseminates the information  to SuperMontage's subscribers.   [snip]  > The second tier, running on Windows 2000 Server and SQL Server@ implemented on two Dell 8450 four-processor servers, manages allC business logic using stored procedures. Each quotation, or message, E causes a SQL Server stored procedure to execute four or five database ? calls to process the message and load it into the database. SQL F Server business logic reviews all the reference information associated? with the message, such as the state of quoting participants. It > prepares relevant information to be included with the eventualG transmission of the quotation data to subscribers. It analyses whether, @ and where, the new quotation fits among the top five bid and ask prices.   E The third tier pulls data from the SQL Server database and multicasts F it to all SuperMontage subscribers. This layer is implemented on threeB dual-processor Dell 2250 servers running Windows 2000 Server. EachD processor supports a single channel of output, and each server has a backup machine for failover.   [snip]  E "Quite candidly, when we started the project, I had my doubts whether = Microsoft could deliver on enterprise-class applications," he G concludes. "But I think the results speak for themselves. Microsoft can 	 deliver."    ---    				Rob     B Men with walkie-talkies                 I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonder G Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstream > The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  .                                 -- Neil Young    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 22:12:10 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality3 Message-ID: <hUUYr3YJjzla@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3ijcl7Fln056U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  D > Read my lips.  While the bids, during the procurement process, areH > classified and treated as "trade secrets" once the contract is awarded > it is public information.   & From a current US government contract:  E "Except as may be otherwise provided herein, the Contractor shall not E  refer to the XXX or to any of its XXXs, organizations, or facilities F  in any manner or through any medium, whether written, oral or visual,F  for any prupose whatsoever, including but not limited to, advertisingD  marketing, promotion, publicity, or solicitation, without the prior.  written approval of the Contracting Officer."  I Granted, that is for consulting service rather than for sale of hardware.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:36:42 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality, Message-ID: <42C465D5.6FFBB910@teksavvy.com>   Dan Notov wrote:G > Publishing a reference as you describe still requires buy-in from the B > sponsor. You just cannot unilaterally announce something without> > permission. Also, some contractual documents preclude public# > announcements without permission.   H Yep. and you won't get permission if you don't even ask for it. Those HPE employtees who reluctantly agree to sell a VMS stystem know full well E that VMS isn't marketed and won't bother asking for the right to brag  about that sale.  = But Those HP employees who sell Microsoft systems to the same E organisation will take the effort to ask for permission and generally E get it (with some restrictions, of course) and they will use this big E time not only to bolster's HP's image, but for the kickbacks they get  from Microsoft and Intel.   E Where there is a will, there is a way. As long as there is no will to ( market VMS, a way won't event be sought.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:10:23 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality, Message-ID: <42C578FF.354B3857@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:H > >  marketing, promotion, publicity, or solicitation, without the prior2 > >  written approval of the Contracting Officer." > I > One, that appears to be for a specific contract.  I would need the rest H > of the contract to try to determine why they might have included that.    I It would be pretty standard to have that in. You don't want the vendor to M start bragging about aspects which are private to the customer. And you don't  have to be within the military.   M Back when Montreal was big enough to have a stock exchange, and back when DEC L was smart enough to win that account, when the time came for Toronto to lookM at replacement for their old systems, the toronto DEC salespersons tried very K hard to get the montreal sales rep to divulge tons of information about the F montreal exchange (even internally within DEC) and he was under strictC instructions not to reveal any details which may reveal some of the N competitive advantages montreal had over toronto due to the use of VMS and the! software to run a stock exchange.   G However, dec was able to brag about having won that exchange. They just 2 weren't allowed to divulge specific aspects of it.  N And just because there is a clause requiring specific written approval doesn't& mean that approval is dificult to get.  J You just need a wroitten approval to divulge only certain aspects and keepG confidentiality about others. So you can bragh about the win, but can't > release any of the details the customer doesn't want released.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 19:26:11 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing), Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality6 Message-ID: <00A461C0.87734442@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  d In article <42c4f4ad$0$28094$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:- >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: W >> In article <42C46513.BD7F2ECD@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> writes:  >>   >>>Dan Notov wrote:  >>> G >>>>F16 and F22 made and continues to make exensive use of VMS on these H >>>>programs. Most aircraft programs get locked into a certain computingL >>>>envinronment due to certificatation of the HW and SW involved. RehostingL >>>>the solution(s) is very difficult because the cost of recertifying is so	 >>>>high.  >>>> >>>>CHARON-VAX helps out a lot.  >>>  >>> D >>>And that, my friends, says a hell of a lot about HP's claims that4 >>>customers will easily migrate to that IA64 thing. >>> I >>>If staying with VAX for so many years is necessary for some customers, 8 >>>then so will staying with Alpha for other customers.  >>> H >>>In the end, Alpha customers will be buying lenovo or Dell machines 64H >>>bit machines and run Charon-Alpha on it to continue their operations. >>   >>  R >> Not if HP will only support and license the notional Charon-Alpha on I64.  (Not, >> that I  have any idea about their plans.) >>  
 >> -- Alan > Q >The new CHARON-VAX 66x0 emulates all VAX CPUs, and it seems that SRI is working  + >on the same kind of result for CHARON-AXP.  > 3 >See http://www.softresint.com/charon-axp/index.htm   L At the risk that my spending any more time on what was basically a wisecrack@ will give the false impression that I have a position to defend:  E JF was saying that Alpha customers, rather than buy I64, would end up J running CHARON-AXP on  generic X86-64 machines from other sources than HP,F based on what seems to be the fact that quite a few VAX customers haveJ ended up running CHARON-VAX.  I was suggesting that HP is in a position toI lower the likelihood of that happening by only allowing license transfers J to, and only offering support for, VMS on CHARON-AXP if it's running on anG HP I64 box, in which case they'd still get hardware revenue from those   Alpha replacements.   I (That is, this is all a speculative marketing/licensing interchange, not   a technical interchange.)   . Your remark seems like a non sequitur to that.   -- Alan    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 16:00:15 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality3 Message-ID: <qb$3hoW16UyR@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <00A461C0.87734442@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes:  > G > JF was saying that Alpha customers, rather than buy I64, would end up L > running CHARON-AXP on  generic X86-64 machines from other sources than HP,H > based on what seems to be the fact that quite a few VAX customers haveL > ended up running CHARON-VAX.  I was suggesting that HP is in a position toK > lower the likelihood of that happening by only allowing license transfers L > to, and only offering support for, VMS on CHARON-AXP if it's running on anI > HP I64 box, in which case they'd still get hardware revenue from those   > Alpha replacements.   A    I was under the impression that HP willonly officially support H    Charon-VAX on PCs with HP and Compaq logos, but would license VMS for    it for other PC makes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:11:17 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality, Message-ID: <42C5F7BB.29F9EAD2@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote: N > The ME had a decent VMS environment and better application software than the > TSE. > C > They ran some Mira's initially as I recall, and maybe FT's later.   N They didn't stay long with VMS. Migrated to SUN within a couple of years until: the montreal exchange ceased to exist as a stock exchange.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:08:44 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>  Subject: Re: Vax emulator + Message-ID: <3ikml7Flj2dpU1@individual.net>   * On 2005-07-01 11:03, "Robert Boers" wrote:   > Didier Morandi wrote:  > K >> [...], CHARON is a *program*. It needs an underlying O.S. to run. It is   >> not an O.S. > K > Not necessary. We have done some work on a system where only the VAX CPU  J > uses a hardware abstraction layer and accesses native host peripherals. H > Unfortunately there was no VAX that used PCI I/O, so either you add a B > load of custom drivers to VAX/VMS, or build HALs for individual = > peripherals. And there is the 'detail' of the boot process.   H I still don't understand why there is no version built on top of a RT OSF (which already has the kernel, scheduler, drivers, ..., perhaps even aB "hardware recognition and configuration layer" to dynamically linkA drivers into the kernel); for the "major" RT OSs there are "cross F development tools" so the applications (i.e., CHARON-VAX) can be built using Windows.  - > For Alpha the situation might be different.    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 13:05:41 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Vax emulator + Message-ID: <3iktd5Flor3lU2@individual.net>   3 In article <S4vL945NR06c@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:f > In article <42c50198$0$28113$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes: >> David J Dachtera wrote: >>  F >>> Stan replied to me privately, but I think everyone knew what I wasH >>> looking for: a version of Charon that does not require an underlying >>> o.s. >>  V >> David, CHARON is a *program*. It needs an underlying O.S. to run. It is not an O.S. > I >    I think he's looking for a Charon which includes a minimal kernel of  >    it's own. > Q >> If you are looking for an O.S. which understands VAX hardware, I know of only   >> one: VAX/VMS :-)  > B >    ULTRIX, VAXeln, BSD 4.3, FreeBSD, ..., but I think that's the' >    opposite of what he's looking for.    H FreeBSD does not support the VAX.  OpenBSD and NetBSD do support a small subset of VAX hardware.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 10:40:54 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr>  Subject: Re: Vax emulator 4 Message-ID: <42c50198$0$28113$636a15ce@news.free.fr>   David J Dachtera wrote:   D > Stan replied to me privately, but I think everyone knew what I wasF > looking for: a version of Charon that does not require an underlying > o.s.  S David, CHARON is a *program*. It needs an underlying O.S. to run. It is not an O.S.   N If you are looking for an O.S. which understands VAX hardware, I know of only  one: VAX/VMS :-)   D.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 07:38:19 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Vax emulator 3 Message-ID: <S4vL945NR06c@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <42c50198$0$28113$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes: > David J Dachtera wrote:  > E >> Stan replied to me privately, but I think everyone knew what I was G >> looking for: a version of Charon that does not require an underlying  >> o.s.  > U > David, CHARON is a *program*. It needs an underlying O.S. to run. It is not an O.S.   G    I think he's looking for a Charon which includes a minimal kernel of     it's own.  P > If you are looking for an O.S. which understands VAX hardware, I know of only  > one: VAX/VMS :-)  @    ULTRIX, VAXeln, BSD 4.3, FreeBSD, ..., but I think that's the%    opposite of what he's looking for.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 07:39:59 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Vax emulator 3 Message-ID: <1vOOlnQeLf4Z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <3ikml7Flj2dpU1@individual.net>, Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> writes:   J > I still don't understand why there is no version built on top of a RT OS  C    There is a version built on top of OpenVMS Alpha.  Which I would H    think would meet as many RT needs as using VMS on a VAX did.  But SRI    doesn't advertise it so.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 08:50:45 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>  Subject: Re: Vax emulator 1 Message-ID: <jJ6dnR3SSOC6oVjfRVn-hg@adelphia.com>    Michael Unger wrote:, > On 2005-07-01 11:03, "Robert Boers" wrote: >  >  >>Didier Morandi wrote:  >> >>K >>>[...], CHARON is a *program*. It needs an underlying O.S. to run. It is   >>>not an O.S. >>K >>Not necessary. We have done some work on a system where only the VAX CPU  J >>uses a hardware abstraction layer and accesses native host peripherals. H >>Unfortunately there was no VAX that used PCI I/O, so either you add a B >>load of custom drivers to VAX/VMS, or build HALs for individual = >>peripherals. And there is the 'detail' of the boot process.  > J > I still don't understand why there is no version built on top of a RT OSH > (which already has the kernel, scheduler, drivers, ..., perhaps even aD > "hardware recognition and configuration layer" to dynamically linkC > drivers into the kernel); for the "major" RT OSs there are "cross H > development tools" so the applications (i.e., CHARON-VAX) can be built > using Windows.  F The critical issue is the lifetime of some of the hardware components.  G For PC class hardware, this really hits on the video, disk, sound, and  I network  controllers.  The lifetime of a chipset on a PC disk controller  F has only a slightly longer one than a video chipset, and the same for  networking and sound.   7 Microsoft Windows drivers are available for almost all.   F Linux drivers for a noticeably smaller set, and with many devices are . lower functionality and a lot later to market.  I I have been frequently foiled at using disks and network cards that have  L been on the common PC market for over a year on several LINUX distributions.  I For realtime PC operating systems, the number of available off the shelf   drivers shrink rapidly.   I If you are writing your own operating system, you have to either get the  F driver from the hardware vendor, or you need to get the hardware card  before it gets to the market.   F Every time there is a minor change to the card, you have to requalify E it, and may need to change the driver.  And OpenVMS has high quality  % standards for hardware qualification.   H The only way to avoid the requalification and update expense is to bulk B buy the devices for resale.  Of course then you are buying at the I current market price and if the effective price drops, either you take a  K loss on the sale of the widget, or continue to sell it at the higher price.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2005 00:05:08 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Vax emulator + Message-ID: <3im41kFm78r6U1@individual.net>   3 In article <0qQ7WzPmiFCi@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:X > In article <3iktd5Flor3lU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>  K >> FreeBSD does not support the VAX.  OpenBSD and NetBSD do support a small  >> subset of VAX hardware. > 2 >    I never could keep all those ...BSD straight.  E Damn, there are only three.  and two of them are pretty much the same  thing in a different wrapper.    bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 15:54:43 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Vax emulator 3 Message-ID: <0qQ7WzPmiFCi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3iktd5Flor3lU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >   J > FreeBSD does not support the VAX.  OpenBSD and NetBSD do support a small > subset of VAX hardware.   0    I never could keep all those ...BSD straight.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 20:59:18 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for downloadC Message-ID: <1120190358.612231.296200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:E > In article <1119970426.298640.116410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, * >    "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote: > >  > >  > >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  > <snip> > D > >> It isn't not your right to create these exceptions for productsB > >> that are owned by somebody else.  You tread on very dangerous> > >> grounds of anarchy here.  Would you like somebody to have@ > >> the same idea about your personal property when they decide= > >> they want to start making the exception that it is OK to @ > >> take possession of your car just because they felt like it? > >  > >  > >Woah! > > J > >1. The fact is that such exceptions are made all the time. Zoning laws,> > >expiration of patents, copyrights, and trademarks; landmarkI > >preservation. Even in the computing biz there are export restrictions.  > < > I want you to examine the circumstances of when copyrights	 > expire.    I'll put it on my list.    > > G > >2. If I owned the pyramids and wanted to destroy them, would that be  > >okay? > = > Assuming you can own property in Egypt, it depends on their 9 > laws about property rights.  You should notice that the = > owners of certain Bhudda facimiles destroyed them according  > to their laws.  C Well, GCT and its owner is subject to US law, which include Eminent ( Domain. So I think we agree on this one.   [...] A > >3a. OK, software is different enough to merit more evaluation,  > >discussion, thought, etc. > B > No.  We have already done this evalutation, discussion, thought,< > etc.  We are telling you that doing what the idiot did was? > Bad.  Very bad.  We know this because we've seen what happens  > when the deed is corrected.    I agree that it is very bad.   > > H > >What I'm trying to say is that ownership doesn't have infinite value.G > >There will be exceptions, but there should be a very good reason for  > >each and every exception. > > E > >I AM NOT SAYING EVERYTHING SHOULD BE FREE FOR ALL. NO NO NO NO NO!  > > , > >See my other post from a few minutes ago. > @ > I did.  We're trying to caution you to think a little bit more? > about your approach.  In our experience, it doesn't work.  In = > the experience of other types of business, it destroyed the ) > innovation within that business sector.   C I'm not sure what you're referring to here as I said I misspoke. In B fact, I could hardly believe that I typed it! Well, if it dies, it dies. (a=a(!))   >  > <snip> > @ > >> Yes, and it's called the hobbyists' program.  The OP wanted > >> to destroy that.  > > B > >I am against what the OP is doing because he is endangering the > >hobbyist program. > > > The situation is worse than that.  The OP is endangering the= > opportunities for people in the computing business to learn D > other approaches to solving computing deliver of service problems.   OK!    >  > <snip> > K > >> >There is too obligation. If a corporation sells you something that is I > >> >defective, or worse, dangerous, you can sue them in court. I'm just K > >> >saying that at some level it seems unfair to pull the carpet out from M > >> >under those who use VMS. I'm not saying that it 100% supreme, but it is  > >> >not 0% either! > >>* > >> You need to learn how commerce works. > > F > >The U.S. is a great economic power in part due to the fact that theG > >gov't has established and maintains an environment (business, legal, @ > >academic, what have you) that allows motivated businesses andI > >individuals to succeed better than in other countries. Part of that is F > >an occasional exception to "owners rule" for lack of a better term.G > >These exceptions include zoning laws; expiration of ownership rights J > >(copyrights, patents, etc.); eminent domain (I disagree with the recentF > >Supreme Court's ruling on this issue (New London, CT); safety laws;I > >criminal and civil laws; protection of the environment laws, etc. Such B > >exceptions should only be done with very good reason, but there! > >sometimes IS very good reason.  > > I > >So I think I am not really in any great disagreement with you, or Bill E > >Gunshannon, or Lurker. I'm certainly not a communist! I just don't F > >think that "well, they own it" should be the end of the discussion. > B > It should be the end of the "give it away to everybody for free": > discussion.  You will notice that a certain poster still= > thinks that he owns the product because he a buck for a CD.   E I am well aware of the difference between licensing and owning. At my ? company we license a monitoring system (expensive!) but it cost > considerably more when we outright purchased a trading system!   > D > >Such discussion may well give the same end result, but one shouldG > >consider that there are competing interests and I think that none of  > >them have infinite value. > >  > > H > >AND AGAIN, I APOLOGIZE FOR MY MISSTATEMENT ABOUT HP'S RIGHT TO DROP A > >PRODUCT.  > > @ > >It was my fault and I accept the blame and the responsiblity. > ; > No need to apologize if you learn the consequences of the : > kind of idea you had.  When you think of a solution, you: > have to be able to consider everything that can go wrong > plus more. :-)   Hey, I misspoke.   >  > > G > >I hope that I haven't misspoken again! and that that my thoughts are - > >better expressed and more clear this time.  > > : > >(Yeah, my communication skills aren't always the best.) > = > None of us have the best skills.  And this newsgroup medium ? > makes everything worse because of the time delay.  It reminds @ > me of trying to talk to a European customer on the half-duplex > phone.  E Well, I try to be clear, but I find people often misinterpret even my & techincal questions in this newsgroup.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 01 Jul 05 08:33:35 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download, Message-ID: <KY-dnX_fufpGg1jfRVn-hg@rcn.net>  C In article <1120190358.612231.296200@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, (    "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote: >  >  >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  <snip>  > >> None of us have the best skills.  And this newsgroup medium@ >> makes everything worse because of the time delay.  It remindsA >> me of trying to talk to a European customer on the half-duplex 	 >> phone.  > F >Well, I try to be clear, but I find people often misinterpret even my' >techincal questions in this newsgroup.   C Of course.  That happens in face-to-face discussions, too.  However ? in those types, people have the luxury of body language so they < can correct misinterpretations immediately and globally.  In@ this medium, there is no body language, the time delay is always> 24 hours, and an explanation has to be repeated N-reply times.  ; That's the down side of this flavor of medium.  The up side : is that a lot more people can listen and/or participate in the meeting :-).   /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:13:59 +1200$ From: "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download4 Message-ID: <Lsoxe.12015$U4.1506689@news.xtra.co.nz>  / "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message = news:1119880450.608451.259120@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...   H > What I'm trying to say is that ownership should not, and is often not, > the be all and end all.    Reminds me of the old saying:   & Nothing makes you doubt that posession% is 99.9% of the law as much as having  tiger by the tail.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 21:52:19 GMT + From: Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> ) Subject: Re: VMIC reflective memory crash C Message-ID: <nWixe.12694$hK3.7177@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>    David D Miller wrote:  > Folks: > E > I have a VMIC RFM2G (5565) reflective memory card (it's a PCI card) L > installed on an Alpha ES45 running VMS 7.3-2.  The driver was written by a. > contractor because VMIC doesn't support VMS. > D > From time to time, VMIC memory is shifted 8 bytes and VMS crashes. > M > I need some help - I'm not into crash dumps or XDELTA -- I don't know where + > to start.  Any tips would be appreciated.  >  > dave.  >   ! Perhaps these folks can help you: X http://www.ipact.com/Expertise/Device%20Drivers/VMIC%20Reflective%20Memory%20Adapter.htm   Cheers,  jec    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 21:55:34 GMT + From: Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> ) Subject: Re: VMIC reflective memory crash C Message-ID: <qZixe.12698$hK3.1559@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>    David D Miller wrote:  > Folks: > E > I have a VMIC RFM2G (5565) reflective memory card (it's a PCI card) L > installed on an Alpha ES45 running VMS 7.3-2.  The driver was written by a. > contractor because VMIC doesn't support VMS. > D > From time to time, VMIC memory is shifted 8 bytes and VMS crashes. > M > I need some help - I'm not into crash dumps or XDELTA -- I don't know where + > to start.  Any tips would be appreciated.  >  > dave.  >   8 It looks like VMIC does have something to say about VMS:  Q http://206.166.203.197/products/reflectivememory/info_files/hw_rtnet_drivers.html    Have you contacted them?   Cheers,  jec    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 15:28:07 -0700 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority B Message-ID: <1120256887.314938.43070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   jlsue wrote:H > You might try moving the f$getjpi function call for "state" to another7 > spot (for example, make it the first call to getjpi).  > A > This could return the proper state to your procedure before the 0 > subsequent getjpi calls start firing off ASTs. > 	 > --- jls 2 > The preceding message was personal opinion only.7 > I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,   > and certainly not my employer.    & I just tried it and it worked! Thanks!   AEF    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:55:46 GMT + From: Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority C Message-ID: <SL_we.12332$hK3.5597@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > l >>In article <1120138193.202168.136920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >> >>E >>>For now I ask: Why does SHOW SYSTEM work "properly" at priority 15 F >>>while WORKSET.COM doesn't? What's different about SHOW SYSTEM? SHOWE >>>SYSTEM, when run at priority 15, doesn't show all processes in COM I >>>states like WORKSET.COM does. My first guess would be that SHOW SYSTEM I >>>uses $GETJPI and that WORKSET.COM uses F$GETJPI which uses $GETJPI (or F >>>SYS$GETJPI?). So why the difference in behavior? I don't know, so I >>>ask.  >>E >>Without even bothering to look at the source of either, SHOW SYSTEM F >>is a single executable image, giving far better atomicity of lookup. >  > E > Well, I realized it was a single image, but I didn't know if or how C > that would affect getting COM as a result. The explanations given F > seemed to be saying that there is no way to get the state of a lower, > priority process via F$GETJPI/$GETJPI. OK. >  > C >>If this really is important to you, write a real compiled program , >>rather than using a DCL command procedure. >  > G > No -- I just wanted to know why it "failed" to give the correct state B > at high priority and why SHOW SYSTEM doesn't "fail" in this way.   AEF,  H Perhaps you should be looking at the problem in a different way. Why areG you running this DCL procedure at real-time priority? Is it because you H don't want to miss any important event? If so, you should be considering6 the execution interval and duration, not the priority.   Cheers,  jec    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 16:59:33 -0700 From: dooleys@snowy.net.auK Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority C Message-ID: <1120175973.631112.270880@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   E > > This is not my experience - I see processes in LEF and HIB states  >  > H > Did you bump up your priority to 15? My question was specific to that. > H > Yes, I know. I just quickly typed the relevant function. Yes, it needs > a proper argument. > I > I mentioned WORKSET.COM and the relevant function. I thought that would I > be enough. To really be specific and accurate, I would have had to post G > the entire procedure! Well, releavant portions, but I didn't think it  > was worth the trouble. > 2 Even at priority 15 I see the proper process state0 (admittedly on OpenVMS V7.2-1 Alpha on a lightly loaded machine - 10-20% cpu) Phil7 _TNA306:@   SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES]working_set.com 1                           Working Set Information   D                                  WS    WS    WS     WS   Pages  PageF Username    Processname   State  Extnt Quota Deflt  Size in WS  Faults Image   E SYSTEM      SWAPPER        HIB  938880    16   288     0     0      0   E SYSTEM      CLUSTER_SERVER HIB  100000  4384  2192  2192  1104     56  CSP E SYSTEM      CONFIGURE      HIB  100000  4384  2192  2192   272     52 	 CONFIGURE E SYSTEM      LANACP         HIB  100000  4992  2192  4592  2320    106  LANACPE SYSTEM      FASTPATH_SERVERHIB  100000  4384  2192  2192  1280     68 
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 TNSLSNR_64E SYSTEM      _Idle$R006_186 LEF  100000  4384  2192  2192  1168     83   E SYSTEM      _Idle$R008_188 LEF  100000  4384  2192  2192  1168     83   E SYSTEM      _Idle$R000_189 LEF  100000  4384  2192  2192  1168     83   E SYSTEM      _Idle$R001_190 LEF  100000  4384  2192  2192  1168     83   E SYSTEM      _Idle$R002_191 LEF  100000  4384  2192  2192  1168     83   E SYSTEM      _Idle$R009_192 LEF  100000  4384  2192  2192  1168     83   E SYSTEM      _Idle$R007_193 LEF  100000  4384  2192  2192  1168     83   E SYSTEM      MKC0AACP       HIB  100000  4384  2192  1520   688     39  MTAAACP E SYSTEM      SYSTEM         LEF  100000 32000 16384 16384  2096   5185  COPYE SYSTEM      SYMBIONT_483   HIB  100000 24992  6240  6240   736     99 
 LATSYM     <user logins deleted>  _TNA306:   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 00:47:12 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGK Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 0 Message-ID: <00A4613D.5AB43C36@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <42C467F4.40BBC31D@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >AEF wrote:  >>   >> David J Dachtera wrote: >> > AEF wrote:  >> > >
 >> > > Hello,  >> > >I >> > > WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes and N >> > > various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that whenM >> > > you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM. . >> > > The state is determined by the function >> > > >> > >     f$getjpi("","STATE")  >> > >M >> > > The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are  >> > > reported as COM.  >> > >M >> > > Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at  >> > > which it is run?  >> >G >> > Well, think about it: the priority effects CPU scheduling. If your L >> > process (running WORKING_SET.COM) is more eligible to be scheduled intoH >> > the CPU than the other processes, what's going to happen to the CPU >> > queue?  >> > >>  G >> But many processes don't want the CPU, yet if their priority is less G >> than yours they always show up as COM, even a process running a WAIT 
 >> statement.  > F >Depends on what the process is doing. Even a process which appears toF >sit in LEF (or CEF) state all day periodically becomes computable. IfF >the CPU is devoted to processes of higher priority at that time, what >will you see?   	.entry	go,0 	$clref_s	efn=#1 	$waitfr_s	efn=#1    ;When do I become COMputable?    	ret 	.end	go       --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 20:30:43 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority B Message-ID: <1120188643.551706.45910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Jeff Chimene wrote:  > AEF wrote: > >  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > n > >>In article <1120138193.202168.136920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > >> [...]  > >    [Larry:]E > >>If this really is important to you, write a real compiled program . > >>rather than using a DCL command procedure.   [Me:] I > > No -- I just wanted to know why it "failed" to give the correct state D > > at high priority and why SHOW SYSTEM doesn't "fail" in this way.   [You:] > AEF, > J > Perhaps you should be looking at the problem in a different way. Why areI > you running this DCL procedure at real-time priority? Is it because you J > don't want to miss any important event? If so, you should be considering8 > the execution interval and duration, not the priority. > 	 > Cheers,  > jec   C I am studying VMS memory management (and performance in general) by G reading the performance manual and SYSGEN parameter descriptions and by G experimenting with my test system. For example, on my test system I set F my memory to be very small via PHYSICALPAGES to see what happens (yes,E I run it through AUTOGEN). But even with ample memory I find that the B workset.com program runs rather slowly during the last phase of myE trading system startup. So I thought that running at 15 would make it > run faster so that I could get a narrower time slice of what'sF happening. It does, but then it appears to have too much impact on theE system. Not only do all the states show up as COM, but I recently saw D fleeting evidence suggesting that it makes outswapped computable andG causes them to be swapped in (back on a memory-limited system). Well, I G guess that's no surprise since it tends to put them into the COM state! E SHOW SYSTEM seems to be mostly immune to this problem, but it doesn't  show me the working set stats.  C As a practical matter I will soon have to double the number of data E feed jobs I'm running and on some systems this will make memory tight F so I am studying the issue. I think it is likely I will have to adjust7 WSDEFAULT, WSQUOTA, and WSEXTENT. And run AUTOGEN, too.   @ In this particular case I am trying to observe AWSA in detail to1 confirm that I understand the performance manual.   . So it is part practicality and part curiosity.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jun 2005 20:34:24 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority C Message-ID: <1120188863.963546.326290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: l > In article <1120098848.856048.170530@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > >  > >  > >Jeff Cameron wrote:# > >> On 6/29/05 4:33 PM, in article A > >> 1120087981.900047.325720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "AEF" $ > >> <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote: [...]  > > C > >Well, talk about the act of measuring affecting the measurement!  > & > It's like the uncertainty principle.    > Since I used to be a physicist I understand that all too well!     > --M > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  > 6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:45:24 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority + Message-ID: <42C467F4.40BBC31D@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > AEF wrote: > > >  > > > Hello, > > > H > > > WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andM > > > various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when L > > > you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.- > > > The state is determined by the function  > > >  > > >     f$getjpi("","STATE") > > > L > > > The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are > > > reported as COM. > > > L > > > Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at > > > which it is run? > > F > > Well, think about it: the priority effects CPU scheduling. If yourK > > process (running WORKING_SET.COM) is more eligible to be scheduled into G > > the CPU than the other processes, what's going to happen to the CPU 
 > > queue? > >  > F > But many processes don't want the CPU, yet if their priority is lessF > than yours they always show up as COM, even a process running a WAIT > statement.  E Depends on what the process is doing. Even a process which appears to E sit in LEF (or CEF) state all day periodically becomes computable. If E the CPU is devoted to processes of higher priority at that time, what 
 will you see?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 11:20:55 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGK Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 0 Message-ID: <00A46195.E22FEB37@SendSpamHere.ORG>  j In article <1120188863.963546.326290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >  >   >VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:m >> In article <1120098848.856048.170530@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >> > >> > >> >Jeff Cameron wrote: $ >> >> On 6/29/05 4:33 PM, in articleB >> >> 1120087981.900047.325720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "AEF"% >> >> <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:  >[...] >> >D >> >Well, talk about the act of measuring affecting the measurement! >>' >> It's like the uncertainty principle.  >  > ? >Since I used to be a physicist I understand that all too well!    ;)   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 07:30:20 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 3 Message-ID: <YOnM3ROmCHWc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A4613D.5AB43C36@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:  >  > 	.entry	go,0 > 	$clref_s	efn=#1 > 	$waitfr_s	efn=#1  >  > ;When do I become COMputable?  >  > 	ret
 > 	.end	go >   2    When you're executing that AST I posted to you.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:34:11 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGK Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 0 Message-ID: <00A461A8.80854136@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <YOnM3ROmCHWc@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: V >In article <00A4613D.5AB43C36@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>   >> 	.entry	go,0  >> 	$clref_s	efn=#1  >> 	$waitfr_s	efn=#1 >>    >> ;When do I become COMputable? >>   >> 	ret  >> 	.end	go  >>   > 3 >   When you're executing that AST I posted to you.   H You've taken this out of the context of the thread to which I posted it.H Yes it will be become COMputable and, eventually, CURrent when an AST isH queued to it.  However, it will not become COMputable by virtue of being there!   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 16:54:23 GMT + From: Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority B Message-ID: <3zexe.2618$8f7.2600@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>  
 AEF wrote: >  > Jeff Chimene wrote:  >  >>AEF wrote: >> >>>Larry Kilgallen wrote:  >>>  >>> n >>>>In article <1120138193.202168.136920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >>>> >  > [...]  >  > 
 > [Larry:] > E >>>>If this really is important to you, write a real compiled program . >>>>rather than using a DCL command procedure. >  >  > [Me:]  > H >>>No -- I just wanted to know why it "failed" to give the correct stateC >>>at high priority and why SHOW SYSTEM doesn't "fail" in this way.  >  >  > [You:] >  >>AEF, >>J >>Perhaps you should be looking at the problem in a different way. Why areI >>you running this DCL procedure at real-time priority? Is it because you J >>don't want to miss any important event? If so, you should be considering8 >>the execution interval and duration, not the priority. >>	 >>Cheers,  >>jec  >  > E > I am studying VMS memory management (and performance in general) by I > reading the performance manual and SYSGEN parameter descriptions and by I > experimenting with my test system. For example, on my test system I set H > my memory to be very small via PHYSICALPAGES to see what happens (yes,G > I run it through AUTOGEN). But even with ample memory I find that the D > workset.com program runs rather slowly during the last phase of myG > trading system startup. So I thought that running at 15 would make it @ > run faster so that I could get a narrower time slice of what'sH > happening. It does, but then it appears to have too much impact on theG > system. Not only do all the states show up as COM, but I recently saw F > fleeting evidence suggesting that it makes outswapped computable andI > causes them to be swapped in (back on a memory-limited system). Well, I I > guess that's no surprise since it tends to put them into the COM state! G > SHOW SYSTEM seems to be mostly immune to this problem, but it doesn't   > show me the working set stats. > E > As a practical matter I will soon have to double the number of data G > feed jobs I'm running and on some systems this will make memory tight H > so I am studying the issue. I think it is likely I will have to adjust9 > WSDEFAULT, WSQUOTA, and WSEXTENT. And run AUTOGEN, too.  > B > In this particular case I am trying to observe AWSA in detail to3 > confirm that I understand the performance manual.  > 0 > So it is part practicality and part curiosity. >    Hi,   B Now that we've successfully extracted from you the reason for thisC thread, there will be a statistically significant portion of c.o.v. H willing to offer tuning advice. So, I'd post again with this description and see what answers you get.   D Nevertheless, I feel compelled to ask: is this trading system I/O orH compute bound? It sounds like you've decided it's compute bound. In thatC case, I'm predicting you'll settle on dividing physical memory into : blocks and setting WSDEF by task to allocate those blocks.  B You mention "doubling the number of data feed jobs ... make memory8 tight" Are you using the mapped section system services?   Bon voyage,  jec    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 09:33:50 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 3 Message-ID: <FhleKXdSeJsM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A461A8.80854136@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: s > In article <YOnM3ROmCHWc@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: W >>In article <00A4613D.5AB43C36@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:  >>>  >>> 	.entry	go,0 >>> 	$clref_s	efn=#1 >>> 	$waitfr_s	efn=#1  >>> ! >>> ;When do I become COMputable?  >>>  >>> 	ret >>> 	.end	go >>>  >>4 >>   When you're executing that AST I posted to you. > J > You've taken this out of the context of the thread to which I posted it.J > Yes it will be become COMputable and, eventually, CURrent when an AST isJ > queued to it.  However, it will not become COMputable by virtue of being > there!  B It will when surrounded by a covey (technical term) of comp.os.vms denizens firing off SKASTs !   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 20:39:42 GMT ) From: jlsue <jeffls-delete@sbcglobal.net> K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 8 Message-ID: <vdabc1l3csc9cjroehgoi51v4kp7qou2tt@4ax.com>  F You might try moving the f$getjpi function call for "state" to another5 spot (for example, make it the first call to getjpi).   ? This could return the proper state to your procedure before the . subsequent getjpi calls start firing off ASTs.   --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.5 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 15:52:31 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 3 Message-ID: <h6zzwBLFiXHS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A461A8.80854136@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:  > J > You've taken this out of the context of the thread to which I posted it.J > Yes it will be become COMputable and, eventually, CURrent when an AST isJ > queued to it.  However, it will not become COMputable by virtue of being > there!  B    I was following that htread and must have missed something.  OfC    course if left all on its own the process will be LEF unless the &    scheduler has need to make it LEFO.  &    Hopefully we won't all end up COMO.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 23:32:00 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority - Message-ID: <87mzp7oo7j.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   & "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  " > David B Sneddon - bigpond wrote:  F >> Does $GETJPI not operate within the context of the process you wantC >> the information about?  In which case that process would need to % >> "run" to return the information...   E > I don't see how this can be. If $getjpi ran in the target process's F > context, wouldn't its result go into a symbol in that target processC > and screw it up? Also, if the target process needs to run $getjpi E > than I'd expect to see processes all show up as CUR, since they are  > running as you say.     I The getjpi does a kernel AST into the target process and runs within that K process, get the data, then ASTs back to the sender. Most of the work is in . the target process context, not the inquirers.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 10:29:07 -0700  From: "LJB" <ljbartel@juno.com> 9 Subject: Re: write sequential variable len record from PC B Message-ID: <1120238946.901454.81980@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > LJB wrote: > > 1. Header record .. > >   69 bytes of ASCII text > > 2. Line drawing record .. > > 3. Text drawing record$ > >   two byte integer record length ... / > >   seventy seven bytes ASCII text - char(77)  > > I > The records have an odd number of bytes.  Records must be padded with a 6 > single 0 byte when they have an odd number of bytes.   I'll try that.   thanks LJB   ? BTW I figured out how to quote text with Google as someone else  suggested :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 16:36:36 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>D Subject: Re: wrong SCSI cable for PWS600 au (msg for Paul Sture too)+ Message-ID: <3il2ldFm1k2bU1@individual.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:  > All, > J > I'm in the process of building a PWS600au for VMS use. As I have an IDE H > CD-ROM inside, I purchased an SCSI one (VMS FAQ 14.4.4.2 page 14-26). > < > But the SCSI flat cable inside the box has a smaller plug. > K > Should I change it (and in that case, how about the RX drive) or find an  
 > adapter? > B > If I have to change it, should I change the SCSI controller too? > 4 > And in that case, where can I find such antiquity? > 	 > Thanks,  >  > D. > E > ps: Paul, how did you address that problem with the one I sold you?   H IIRC I ran into a similar problem, but didn't persue it, as I just used  it as a cluster satellite.   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 15:20:58 +0000 (UTC)( From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer)D Subject: Re: wrong SCSI cable for PWS600 au (msg for Paul Sture too)5 Message-ID: <da3n0q$s55$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>   T In article <3il2ldFm1k2bU1@individual.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes: > Didier Morandi wrote:  > > All, > > L > > I'm in the process of building a PWS600au for VMS use. As I have an IDE J > > CD-ROM inside, I purchased an SCSI one (VMS FAQ 14.4.4.2 page 14-26). > > > > > But the SCSI flat cable inside the box has a smaller plug. > > M > > Should I change it (and in that case, how about the RX drive) or find an   > > adapter? > > D > > If I have to change it, should I change the SCSI controller too? > > 6 > > And in that case, where can I find such antiquity? > >  > > Thanks,  > >  > > D. > > G > > ps: Paul, how did you address that problem with the one I sold you?  > J > IIRC I ran into a similar problem, but didn't persue it, as I just used  > it as a cluster satellite.  O I don't know if this is the OP's problem, but there are a variety of 50 <-> 68  ; internal SCSI adapters, e.g. sometimes for auction on eBay. K Male-male, female-female, some with 90 deg bend, anything you can imagine.     ------------------------------   Date: 30 Jun 2005 23:19:58 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)% Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 + Message-ID: <3ijd0uFln056U2@individual.net>   + In article <42C4659A.B9572E8B@comcast.net>, 5 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > 8 > ...estimated at mere 400 million servers world-wide...  C Damn Dave, that's a jump.  We just went from 411,000 to 400 million  over night!  :-)   > B > ...as I'm sure Linux did at one time back in the early 1990's...  I Still is, but that doesn't seem to stop people from using it.  Of course, H most of them aren't nearly as picky about their computing environment as
 VMS users.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 09:43:18 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 ( Message-ID: <opss8t2gqrzgicya@hyrrokkin>  J On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 16:38:15 +0000 (UTC), <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote:  2 > I'm not sure what "trade secrets" VMS still has.% > The core of VMS dates from 1977/78.   > Clustering dates from 1983/84.  + Trade Secrets unlike patents are perpetual.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 13:02:42 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)% Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 + Message-ID: <3ikt7iFlor3lU1@individual.net>   ) In article <da35gs$apo$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, ! 	david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes: X > In article <3ij2vqFlmgafU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:6 >>In article <cs9d5q338dt.fsf@psilocybe.update.uu.se>,- >>	Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes: 6 >>> helbig@multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig) writes: >>> D >>>> In article <slrndc5hag.1cb.knatschke@rayleigh.systella.fr>, JKB' >>>> <knatschke@koenigsberg.fr> writes:  >>>>  @ >>>> >	New release available at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/freevms? >>>> >	or http://www.systella.fr/~bertrand/FreeVMS/indexGB.html  >>>>  = >>>> Can someone explain to me what the point of FreeVMS is?   >>> L >>> I'm *not* speaking for the FreeVMS team in any way, but think I have one  >>> answer to offer. This is it:/ >>> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html  >>> J >>> If VMS is the best operating system there is, then there is imperative# >>> that it is to be reimplemented.  >>>  >>H >>Not meaning to shoot you down as I kinda like what your doing but.....F >>It took, what, 20 some years for VMS to get where it is today with aE >>building full of engineers dedicagted to the task.  How long do you F >>figure it will take a handfull of people playing in their spare time >>to dupliacte that task?  >>H > However most of that was adding facilities and improving things as theL > computing industry and technology improved. Do you really think that thoseJ > Engineers if they were working today couldn't reproduce VMS in at worst  > 2 or 3 years.   D If they were starting from scratch with no access to the unpublished knowledge that makes up VMS?  C > (How long did it take Dave Cutler to produce the Kernel of WNT ?)   F I would hardly expect anyone to compare VMS to any version of Windoze. Cutler or not.    >  >  > 7 > Linux was started as a one man project in about 1991. < > It's been usable for many users for a number of years now.  H Usable is a matter of opinion.  But remember, Linux is copying somethingF that is totally public knowledge.  And 14 years later they still don'tG have a stable product.  Most of VMS is still unpublished trade secrets.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:37:04 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>% Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 + Message-ID: <42C48220.8FBADD23@comcast.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > - > In article <42C4659A.B9572E8B@comcast.net>, > >         David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > > : > > ...estimated at mere 400 million servers world-wide... > E > Damn Dave, that's a jump.  We just went from 411,000 to 400 million  > over night!  :-)  ; It sure would be a jump, if only IA32 were a reality... ;-)    > > D > > ...as I'm sure Linux did at one time back in the early 1990's... > K > Still is, but that doesn't seem to stop people from using it.  Of course, J > most of them aren't nearly as picky about their computing environment as > VMS users.  F Then again, some of them are, they just have to balance factors beyondG their control to get where they need to go. We can't guarantee that VMS E will survive beyond the end of the day sometimes (depends on the dire F sooth of the day), but it's a fair bet that Linux, *BSD, etc. will not6 be crushed by a single vendor's ill-conceived choices.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:37:27 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>% Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 + Message-ID: <42C46617.ADC9B08A@comcast.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 6 > In article <cs9d5q338dt.fsf@psilocybe.update.uu.se>,4 >         Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes:6 > > helbig@multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig) writes: > > D > >> In article <slrndc5hag.1cb.knatschke@rayleigh.systella.fr>, JKB' > >> <knatschke@koenigsberg.fr> writes:  > >>C > >> >    New release available at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/freevms B > >> >    or http://www.systella.fr/~bertrand/FreeVMS/indexGB.html > >>< > >> Can someone explain to me what the point of FreeVMS is? > > L > > I'm *not* speaking for the FreeVMS team in any way, but think I have one  > > answer to offer. This is it:/ > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html  > > J > > If VMS is the best operating system there is, then there is imperative# > > that it is to be reimplemented.  > >  > H > Not meaning to shoot you down as I kinda like what your doing but.....F > It took, what, 20 some years for VMS to get where it is today with aE > building full of engineers dedicagted to the task.  How long do you F > figure it will take a handfull of people playing in their spare time > to dupliacte that task?   > Depends. Much of past engineering with VMS was sepcific to theF underlying platform. Today, that still represents a major portion, but% more is now devoted to functionality.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jul 2005 07:32:38 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 3 Message-ID: <2QuhoS3aYCCe@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <slrndc8kdr.1vn.thierry@MARS.Family>, Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch> writes: > < > Fancy an operating system feeling like VMS, but on an x86?      Been there, got that.  SIMH.    > Where if somethingL > doesn't work like you like, you can change it yourself (even if most users1 > probably wouldn't make use of this feature ;-))   G    Been doing that on real VAXen for decades, I'm sure I could do it on     SIMH.  %    But I do like the idea of FreeVMS.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 18:08:53 GMT 1 From: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx> % Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 : Message-ID: <slrndcb1lf.u1o.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx>  1 On 2005-07-01, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote: L > On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 16:38:15 +0000 (UTC), <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote:3 >> I'm not sure what "trade secrets" VMS still has. & >> The core of VMS dates from 1977/78.! >> Clustering dates from 1983/84. - > Trade Secrets unlike patents are perpetual.   D ...as long as they're actually secret, and not released by someone'sL malfeasance. In particular, if it's legitimately reverse-engineerred and notA in violation of an agreement not to do so, it's no longer secret.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.365 ************************