1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 03 Jul 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 368       Contents:. Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement?. Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement?. Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement?. Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement?8 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? Re: different topic - personal Re: different topic - personal Re: Monitoring IP traffic 5 Re: Network card problems? Or something like that.... 5 Re: Network card problems? Or something like that....  Re: OpenVMS 8.2 + ACUEXE Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program # Re: Questions: PointSecure Products # Re: Questions: PointSecure Products # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # RE: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # RE: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # RE: US military and confidentiality  Re: Vax emulator' Re: VAX software available for download  Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2005 06:18:46 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 7 Subject: Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement? 3 Message-ID: <AaMhMuUFcEMn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <BEECB392.107D7%roktsci@comcast.net>, Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> writes:   K > I seem to remember that this was an issue once that Intel tried to combat L > but failed. Instruction sets or processors cannot be copy written. That isL > why AMD was able to make a processor that was Intel compatible. As long asI > the electronics that implement the instructions are not copied, you can 5 > build your own. But I would do more research first.   B It would seem Intel did not have a sufficiently unique instruction set.  B I believe DEC got a patent on the VAX instruction set feature thatB after the first byte of the instruction was read one still did not@ know the total length of the instruction.  Of course that patent would have long since expired.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 07:08:06 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 7 Subject: Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement? ( Message-ID: <opstcb7slzzgicya@hyrrokkin>  > On 2 Jul 2005 12:23:05 -0700, mariuz <mapopa@gmail.com> wrote:  3 > I have one question related to alpha architecture ( > Is alpha instruction set free to use ?  B Why would you want to use it?  There are certainly better choices.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 16:05:24 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> 7 Subject: Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement? = Message-ID: <42c7f0a6$0$67256$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Jeff Cameron wrote:   > On 7/2/05 12:23 PM, in articleA > 1120332185.022215.130990@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "mariuz"  > <mapopa@gmail.com> wrote:  >  > 3 >>I have one question related to alpha architecture ( >>Is alpha instruction set free to use ? >>7 >>Does it it mean that creating a cpu from scratch with 1 >>alpha instruction set HP/Intel will not sue me?  >>F >>"though the architecture was *free de jure*, most important hardware1 >>designs of it were pretty much closed de facto"  >>it is written in on this page 0 >>http://www.alasir.com/alpha/alpha_history.html >>1 >>Until I will solve the legal problems i started  >>this project (Alpha revival) >>: >>http://www.opencores.org/projects.cgi/web/omega/overview >> > K > I seem to remember that this was an issue once that Intel tried to combat L > but failed. Instruction sets or processors cannot be copy written. That isL > why AMD was able to make a processor that was Intel compatible. As long asI > the electronics that implement the instructions are not copied, you can 5 > build your own. But I would do more research first.  > F Back in the days with a number of CISC instruction sets competing for F the market it was important to have a second chip vendor implementing J the same architecture.  AMD, Cyrix, and I think one more started that way.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:35:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 7 Subject: Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement? , Message-ID: <42C821C0.C9D9DEA4@teksavvy.com>   Karsten Nyblad wrote:   G > Back in the days with a number of CISC instruction sets competing for G > the market it was important to have a second chip vendor implementing L > the same architecture.  AMD, Cyrix, and I think one more started that way.  K In the AMD vs Intel document , (posted the link this past week), it was IBM K who demanded Intel allow a second source for the 8086 architecture. AMD was M chosen and a contract was written between Intel and AMD allowing Intel access N to the instruction sets for the 8086 architecture and allowing Intel access toM instruction sets of whatever chips AMD might develop. (this is interesting in D the context of Intel using the 64 bit extensions developped by AMD).  J In fact, when Intel came out with the 80386, it found all sorts of ways toG prevent AMD access to the new instructions, which caused AMD to be very L delayed with its competing product. It had gone to court back then and won.     D Note that HP did not demand a second source for IA64. Stupid idiots.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:52:10 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0307051152250001@user-uinj4n6.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <42C62BB9.9A7742B2@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei  <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> wrote:   # >susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:  >>   >> JF and everyone else,I >> And you think posting notes in response here is going to do something? J >> What? the only people that read this are the folks already doing stuff. > M >Sue, while some of the stuff is perhaps not really constructuve, much of the M >stuff is. Remember that many of us are pushing to get HP to agree to include K >VMS as a core product and market it just as it does the rest. And our only L >means is to consistently point out the areas where HP is not marketing VMS, >missed opportunities etc.    E The people you are trying to influence at HP don't read comp.os.vms.  H Period.  Maybe you should look for an alternative communication channel.  J The garbage spewed here by you and "John Smith" and a handful of others ISH harmful.  It ends up drowning out constructive discussions.  The insultsJ and conspiracy stuff have gradually diminished the number of VMS folks whoG are willing to participate.  Several years ago Mark Gorham announced an G official policy of the VMS group not responding to or trying to correct I the nonsense promulgated here.  He was not willing to inflict comp.os.vms H on any employee as part of their official duties.  I've heard nothing to? indicate that the policy has changed.  Any participation by VMS  engineering here is voluntary.  H A while back Sue told me she might drop her participation here as well. G Whenever she posts any VMS-related announcemnt here, she gets bombarded G with crap from the kooks.  So if she stops posting you'll know why.  If J that happens,  folks who want the information she distributes will need toI contact her via email and ask to be added to the appropriate mail list(s) F that she maintains.  There are a lot of people who never post here whoF rely on Sue's information, and they have alternative ways to get it if they give up on comp.os.vms.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2005 11:49:50 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 3 Message-ID: <2Rk$l1x+u9WH@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-0307051152250001@user-uinj4n6.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  L > The garbage spewed here by you and "John Smith" and a handful of others IS= > harmful.  It ends up drowning out constructive discussions.   1 Not in cases where it trains us to use killfiles.   I Now if we could just get others to stop _responding_ to the doomsayers...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:49:24 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 , Message-ID: <42C82520.DDFBF5F7@teksavvy.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: F > The people you are trying to influence at HP don't read comp.os.vms.J > Period.  Maybe you should look for an alternative communication channel.  L It is VMS management's job and responsability to convince the upper echelonsK at HP that VMS customer have problems with the way HP corporate is handling . VMS and that it is costing HP potential sales.  M This has a lot more weight if it comes from Ann McQuaid or Marcello than from  some unknown entity on the net.   J Remember that many of the participants here who work for the owners of VMSK have stated that marketing VMS would not have any real benefits in tersm of E increased sales. So the attitude about marketing isn't just at the HP H corporate level, there are also some within the vMS group who think that" marketing isn't such a great idea.  K We just keep on repeating that because HP doesn't market VMS seriously , we K cannot pitch VMS to our shops/customers because they don't believe US, they F want to see HP say it in public that VMS is alive, well and that HP isG committed to getting new VMS customers and expanding its customer base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 10:03:26 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com # Subject: Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? - Message-ID: <877jg8zlw1.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ) "Zibri" <zibri@NO.libero.SPAM.it> writes:   % >> > Does the 'T' stand for anything?  >> >> Probably "terminal" >> >> >> > > > :Trouble and that starts with T and that rhymes with pool... > * > :I always thought it was "time", myself. > 	 > :WWWebb  >  > I thought it was "TASK" :) >  >   E I thought it was so it could be finger fumble compatible with T and Y 
 in TECO...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 08:31:43 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: different topic - personal 4 Message-ID: <42c7dbc5$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:H > This is kind of personal to me, and for people that know me its no big2 > surprise but for folks that do not, surprise ;') > E > I hope that folks had a chance to take a look and educate ourselves D > about liveaid on Saturday. I do not like politics at all as anyoneB > that knows me will tell you. Since it divides people and nations! > This is not politics its people  > H > Sometimes we forget how spoiled we are.  We do not have to worry aboutG > our children going to bed hungry at night, we can go to the Dr's when G > we need to and we have the luxury of talking to each other about what H > we do for work, we can disagree, argue and complain.  Not everyone has > these things.  > G > When everything is said and done, humans being humane really makes us . > different and hopefully better than animals. >  > sue       I Unfortunately people are people - most of the time blissfully ignorant of H tragedies and events because it's NIMBY (not in my backyard). Or becauseL they are simply worried about their own plight - they aren't keeping up withK the Jones's, or they (in much of North America at least) really *need* that K new SUV so they can't 'spare' any money to help those who really need basic - sustinence, clean water, or simple medicines.   I Then of course there are nations, which have neither friend nor enemies - K only interests. Sometimes those interests help the plight of the poor, ill, K and needy, but most oftern - in the 3rd world - those interests work to the # disadvantage of those in true need.   A I don't know if many of you saw the following - I hate to call it K advertisement' - which was shown during the Live 8 coverage where I was. It L was a simple message - If on Monday 50,000 people died in London; on TuesdayH 50,000 people died in St. Petersburg; on Wednesday 50,000 people died inE Kansas City; and so on until one city in each of the G8 countries was H mentioned this way, the G8 leaders would find a way to solve the problemI between the time they walked in the door to their upcoming conference and  the buffet table.         O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:24:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: different topic - personal , Message-ID: <42C81F64.38CA301D@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote: K > Unfortunately people are people - most of the time blissfully ignorant of J > tragedies and events because it's NIMBY (not in my backyard). Or becauseN > they are simply worried about their own plight - they aren't keeping up withM > the Jones's, or they (in much of North America at least) really *need* that M > new SUV so they can't 'spare' any money to help those who really need basic     L I don't think people are THAT bad. The problem is that they are not educatedF by the media which, in the instance of a superpower, tends to focus onK domestic affairs and only discusses international issues if it can lambaste M the UN, and this is mostly simply because they see the press release from the K white house of some congressperson who provides them with read-to-broadcast  sound bytes lambasting the UN.  N Darfur was uncovered by the BBC who brought it to the forefront (except in theL USA). Eventually the USA was forced to admit there was a problem and the USAL demanded it be called Genocide and blocked some of the efforts the UN wantedK until they could get their "genocide" thing. Why Genocide ? Because the USA K did not want to recognise the ICC since it would make the USA's leaders and J military leaders possible criminals tried at the ICC.  By calling Darfur aF genocide, it goes to a different court and avoids the ICC alltogether.  L After wasting much time, the USA reluctantly agreed to let Darfur be handledL by ICC with the caveat that this is not to be seen as a precedent of the USAJ recognising the authority of the ICC.  Of course, USA media do not discuss= this so americans do not see how things are really going on.      H Oh, and last week, Bush proudly announced he was doubling aid to Africa.J Whoopty doo. Just before Live 8, and the G8 summit about Africa. makes himN look good on american TV. What the USA media didn't really say is that this isM nothing new. The USA promised doubling of aid a few years ago and this is the J same thing being re-hashed. Good PR, but nothing new to the folks dying inL Africa. (And the USA isn't the only country whose politicians use similar PRK tricks, but this example was blatant, especially since the USA is a country S that is quite far from the 0.7% of GDP target for donations to developping nations.     N The biggest gift the USA and Europe could give africa is banning the export ofK subsidized wheat and other agricultural products to Africa so that Africans N would stand a chance to grow their own crops and sell them locally. This would2 provide employment and generate economic activity.  L But reducing debt is much easier politically since it doesn't have politicalJ ramificatiosn at home with the farmers. Preventing farmers to export theirM subsidized wheat to africa would deprive local farmers from an outlet to dump M (litterally) their subsidized products, so politicians much prefer to be seen 4 doing soemthing else than the fix the real problems.    L Geldof was pretty smart to take a lame Bliar, desperate to find something toN do to counter his image of a war criminal and lyier, and get him to put AfricaM high on the agenda. But if they only talk about debt relief and nothing else, I the western world will continue to inflict more harm to africa than help.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 07:30:47 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)" Subject: Re: Monitoring IP traffic; Message-ID: <42c77807.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   , Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> wrote: > Look for the T4 product. [...] J > the only viewer/analyzer that is currently supplied runs on Windows. :-(  D As an exercize to learn Java, I re-implemented most of TLviz in pureI Java (1.4.2 on WinDoze, using the JFreeChart library [1]). Unfortunately, C I haven't (yet) got an appropriate VMS system to try and run it on.   G It's still work-in-progress, but if anyone wants to give it a try, drop 
 me a mail.   cu,    Martin  $ [1] http://www.jfree.org/jfreechart/ --  C                              | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules! 6   Microsoft isn't the Borg:  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deI   the Borg have proper       |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ =   networking.                | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 10:52:57 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)> Subject: Re: Network card problems? Or something like that....; Message-ID: <42c7a769.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   " Gremlin <not-here@all.mate> wrote:M > OK, decided to get my AlphaServer 400 running to do some testing, it has a  K > updated to latest (and last) SRM firmware.  It has a network card (DEC I  L > think) with a 21140 chip that the SRM identifies as DECchip 21140 Network 8 > Controller, ewa0.0.0.11.0 with a MAC id that seems OK. > L > In the SRM, tyring to do set "ewa0_mode auto" fails, so I settle for "set A > ewa0_mode FD" which results in 100Mbit/FD TP - so far, so good.   A Not good if the switch at the other end of the TP cable is set to  auto-negotiate.   H Did you try "set ewa0_mode" (without an argument) to have the acceptableH values listed? I seem to remember that for some DEC cards the value mustB be "auto-negotiate" as there is another value starting with "auto" ("auto select"?).   : "show config" should show what kind of network card it is.   cu,    Martin --  A                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules! 4  UNIX is user friendly.    | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG  It's just selective about |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ ;  who its friends are.      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 21:15:04 +1000# From: "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate> > Subject: Re: Network card problems? Or something like that..../ Message-ID: <42c7c8ba$1@duster.adelaide.on.net>   	 Hi Martin   F Show config from the SRM produces the results listed as DECchip 21140 J Network Controller, ewa0.0.0.11.0 and set ewa0_mode without any arguments I shows twisted-pair, full duplex twisted pair, aui, bnc, fast, fastfd and  K auto-negotiate.  When I try autonegotiate it won't allow it and changes it  M to twisted pair.  This results in a VMS LANCP setting same as before, but no   better connectivity!     So, it seems to see it OK...@ "Martin Vorlaender" <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote in message 5 news:42c7a769.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de... $ > Gremlin <not-here@all.mate> wrote:L >> OK, decided to get my AlphaServer 400 running to do some testing, it has  >> aK >> updated to latest (and last) SRM firmware.  It has a network card (DEC I L >> think) with a 21140 chip that the SRM identifies as DECchip 21140 Network9 >> Controller, ewa0.0.0.11.0 with a MAC id that seems OK.  >>L >> In the SRM, tyring to do set "ewa0_mode auto" fails, so I settle for "setB >> ewa0_mode FD" which results in 100Mbit/FD TP - so far, so good. > C > Not good if the switch at the other end of the TP cable is set to  > auto-negotiate.  > J > Did you try "set ewa0_mode" (without an argument) to have the acceptableJ > values listed? I seem to remember that for some DEC cards the value mustD > be "auto-negotiate" as there is another value starting with "auto" > ("auto select"?).  > < > "show config" should show what kind of network card it is. >  > cu, 	 >  Martin  > --  B >                           | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!5 > UNIX is user friendly.    | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de H > It's just selective about |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/= > who its friends are.      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de     ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2005 09:57:46 +0100 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)! Subject: Re: OpenVMS 8.2 + ACUEXE , Message-ID: <42c7b69a$1@news.langstoeger.at>  q In article <472dc69e.0507021159.a7ae972@posting.google.com>, harri.klemetti@fipow.abb.fi (Harri Klemetti) writes: < >Anybody know how to actually install the ACUEXE utility forF >controlling the SmartArray 5300 RAID controller on OpenVMS Alpha 8.2?   Sorry, no. Never heard of it.   B >I downloaded the Management Agents (+patch) installed those - OK.   Named how ?   E >Then downloaded HP-AXPVMS-ACUXE-V0640-11P08-1.PCSI which is supposed E >to be for OpenVMS 8.2 - BUT THIS DOES NOT INSTALL, instead I get the  >following error:  >  >%PCSI-E-READERR, error reading 2 >NEKS01$DKA0:<KIT>HP-AXPVMS-ACUXE-V0640-11P08-1.PC >SI;2 $ >-DDIS-E-TNF, invalid element syntax# >%PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failed D >%PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error
 >condition  E I tend to think that the download/transfer hosed the file attributes. : Restore the attributes with SET FILE/ATTR and try again...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 14:54:59 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) " Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobby ProgramL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0307051055150001@user-uinj4n6.dialup.mindspring.com>  2 In article <42c006fa@clear.net.nz>, Tux Wonder-Dog# <wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> wrote:     E >> Give me one improvement you would make - be realistic (every hobby I >> costs something) even if you collected worms you would need a place to  >> put them. > K >What I would like to see is the source code for the old-and-all-but-buried L >VMSes, the early numbered editions, say 3.xx or 5.xx but no later, releasedI >under a version of the MPL or CPL or suchlike.  (In other words, if it's I >too old for anyone to get "trade secrets" out of, it's ripe for a public L >license release - IMHO ;)  It'd also be a neat alternative to *BSD for code >jockeys and kernel hackers.  : Interesting idea, but I think it would be quite expensive.  J To have a hope of protecting intellectual property, each module would haveJ to be evaluated by someone fairly familiar with the technical details.  ItG would have to be an HP employee, or someone under contract with HP.  In C practice, this means a VMS engineer would have to do the evaluation F (probably consulting with lawyers frequently).  The project would thusH necessarily take away from future VMS functionality that the engineer(s) could be working on instead.  I There seem to be plenty of opportunities for hobbyist VMS code jockeys in G getting popular applications ported to VMS.  Would expaning the playing < field to include old versions of the OS itself help matters?    F >A second wish - that reminders of the license get emailed to one from> >Encompass/DECUS, with the option to update/renew by replying.   I like that idea.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 07:12:37 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> , Subject: Re: Questions: PointSecure Products< Message-ID: <FdMxe.139236$VH2.90634@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>  I Point secure sits on a PC and finds holes using rules.   With hippa laws  8 and such it could save a company huge negligence awards.  F System Detective is more involved and establishes a set of rules.   I  has  bigger learning curve.   F Both are actually supported by HP's colorado springs, which is a huge 
 advantage.     Chuck Aaron wrote:  K > Is anyone running Point Secure's "System Detective" and/or "Point Audit"  ! > products? If so, would you mind I > sharing with me how you like the product(s) and any other comments? If  % > you are running other products that 3 > have similar features, please share them with me.  >  > Thanks in Advance,
 > Chuck Aaron  > CERIS Purdue Univ. > VMS Systems Manager.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2005 07:36:59 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: Questions: PointSecure Products3 Message-ID: <JYBILhwZ7mag@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <d9s9pe$731$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes:   K > Is anyone running Point Secure's "System Detective" and/or "Point Audit"  ! > products? If so, would you mind I > sharing with me how you like the product(s) and any other comments? If  % > you are running other products that 3 > have similar features, please share them with me.  >  > Thanks in Advance,
 > Chuck Aaron  > CERIS Purdue Univ. > VMS Systems Manager.  G The concept of "similar features" can only be evaluated by the would-be I customer.  The LJK/Security product from my company measures VMS security G controls (protections, privileges, etc.) against a policy chosen by the G customer, but it does so entirely on VMS without depending on any other G operating system.  We see that as a security benefit, but the choice is  in your hands.  A The ability to make local decisions regarding policy is nice, but C realistically customers want to have a starting point for what will A ultimately be their own policy.  Prior to this year, that was the B default policy with which LJK/Security ships.  Starting this year,B however, LJK/Security also provides command procedures for settingC up a policy that complies with NIST Special Publication 800-53 (see A http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-53/SP800-53.pdf ). E That document is currently advisory for US Federal Government systems D but it is scheduled to become mandatory for those US Federal systems9 effective with the December 2005 publication of FIPS 200.   A In my view, 800-53 is a very good starting point for an operating A system security policy -- far better than the HIPPA and SOX rules A that apply respectively to US Health Care and Corporate entities. @ Even those required to comply with HIPPA or SOX would do well toA view 800-53 as a starting point.  I have yet to find any HIPPA or A SOX documentation that even comes close to the specificity of the A 800-53 rules for operating system security.  But I would be happy 0 to be shown an example that proves me wrong :-).   Larry Kilgallen  617-558-3270 http://www.ljk.com/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 07:09:35 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality= Message-ID: <PaMxe.139235$VH2.104917@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>   8 So you say. It's still sitting on top of a dangerous os.  7 How many Charon VAXes have been up for rears at a time?   @ Incidently, thanks for proving VMS can run on a simple platform.     Stanley F. Quayle wrote:  - > On 2 Jul 2005 at 19:25, Beach Runner wrote:  > E >>Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and Alphas up for B >>months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyberA >>attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms.  >>E >>I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can reboot, and  >>doesn't need reliability.  >  > G > CHARON-VAX is not subject to "cyber attacks".  Check out app note 29  ; > from the CHARON-VAX web site (http://www.charon-vax.com).  > ? > CHARON-VAX is a "real" VMS platform -- it passes all the VAX   > verification tests.  > D > My experience is that Windows (*gulp*) can be stable if it's only C > running one application with all unnecessary services disabled.   F > There's an app note on that, too.  I full expect multi-year uptimes ! > if using server-class hardware.  >  > 5 > [Yes, I am a CHARON-VAX reseller, and proud of it.]  >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------/ > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 2 > stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com+ > "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 06:20:10 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality( Message-ID: <opstb9zwy0zgicya@hyrrokkin>  7 On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 13:33:31 -0400, Stanley F. Quayle    <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote:   * > On 2 Jul 2005 at 9:40, Tom Linden wrote:C >> Can you license VMS to run on CHARON-VAX or does it have to be a F >> transfer of an existing license?  If so, can you do it, or does one$ >> have to go to HP for the license? > F > I have customers who buy licenses from HP for their "new" VAX.  MostA > use a HP-authorized license reseller since getting the licenses ' > directly HP appears to be impossible.   E How much does it cost them?  It seems if you can get an old VAX the    transfer
 fee is $1500.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 06:31:54 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality( Message-ID: <opstcajgvjzgicya@hyrrokkin>  F On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:25:20 GMT, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> wrote:  G > Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and Alphas up for   D > months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyber  A > attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms. H >  I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can reboot, and   > doesn't need reliability.   J I think you are somewhat mistaken.  Reliability is significantly improved,K I use a W2k Dell server as my pop client and for all my business needs, and J it never needs rebooting, aside from power outages, it has been up as longH as my VMS cluster.  As for hacking, this issue has come up before and isK a non-issue.  I have an emulator running under Linux on a PC with two nic    cards,F one for Linux and one for VMS .  So you could put the Linux behind a   firewallJ and the other not, for example.  Which is kind of cute, you could ssh or   telnetG  from one to the other.  I ran a collection of PL/I benchmarks on the   	 650MHz P3 $ and it ran about the same as 4000/90   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 10:26:03 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: US military and confidentialityR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650FD4@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]=20  > Sent: July 3, 2005 9:32 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality >=20H > On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:25:20 GMT, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> wrote: >=20< > > Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and=20 > Alphas up for =20 H > > months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyber =20C > > attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms. ? > >  I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can=20  > reboot, and =20  > > doesn't need reliability.  >=207 > I think you are somewhat mistaken.  Reliability is=20  > significantly improved, < > I use a W2k Dell server as my pop client and for all my=20 > business needs, and ? > it never needs rebooting, aside from power outages, it has=20  > been up as long ? > as my VMS cluster.  As for hacking, this issue has come up=20  > before and is A > a non-issue.  I have an emulator running under Linux on a PC=20  > with two nic =20 > cards,J > one for Linux and one for VMS .  So you could put the Linux behind a =20
 > firewall@ > and the other not, for example.  Which is kind of cute, you=20 > could ssh or =20 > telnet8 >  from one to the other.  I ran a collection of PL/I=20 > benchmarks on the =20  > 650MHz P3 & > and it ran about the same as 4000/90 >=20   Tom,  C It does not matter if you eliminate unnecessary services etc - when F dealing with Windows and/or Linux as a base OS that is to be installedC on the main network, you still need to apply the vendor recommended  monthly security patches.   H And the big issue is not in applying the patches and/or potential rebootH time (which if you have hundereds of servers is significant), but ratherB the time to QA/Test these monthly security patches before they are released into production.   H As an example, Red Hat released 28 Linux *security* patches in June this/ year alone. Approx 140+ since Jan of this year.   
 Reference:H https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (Red Hat Security patches)H https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/2005-June/thread.h tml (June 28 patches)    Windows has the same issue.=20     Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 07:41:43 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality( Message-ID: <opstcdrtdbzgicya@hyrrokkin>  I On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 10:26:03 -0400, Main, Kerry <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote:    >  >> -----Original Message----- + >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]  >> Sent: July 3, 2005 9:32 AM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ >> Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality  >>I >> On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:25:20 GMT, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> wrote:  >>: >> > Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and >> Alphas up forE >> > months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyber D >> > attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms.= >> >  I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can  >> reboot, and >> > doesn't need reliability. >>5 >> I think you are somewhat mistaken.  Reliability is  >> significantly improved,: >> I use a W2k Dell server as my pop client and for all my >> business needs, and= >> it never needs rebooting, aside from power outages, it has  >> been up as long= >> as my VMS cluster.  As for hacking, this issue has come up  >> before and is? >> a non-issue.  I have an emulator running under Linux on a PC  >> with two nic 	 >> cards, G >> one for Linux and one for VMS .  So you could put the Linux behind a  >> firewall > >> and the other not, for example.  Which is kind of cute, you >> could ssh or 	 >> telnet 6 >>  from one to the other.  I ran a collection of PL/I >> benchmarks on the >> 650MHz P3' >> and it ran about the same as 4000/90  >> >  > Tom, > E > It does not matter if you eliminate unnecessary services etc - when H > dealing with Windows and/or Linux as a base OS that is to be installedE > on the main network, you still need to apply the vendor recommended  > monthly security patches.  > J > And the big issue is not in applying the patches and/or potential rebootJ > time (which if you have hundereds of servers is significant), but ratherD > the time to QA/Test these monthly security patches before they are > released into production.  > J > As an example, Red Hat released 28 Linux *security* patches in June this1 > year alone. Approx 140+ since Jan of this year.  >  > Reference:J > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (Red Hat Security
 > patches)J > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/2005-June/thread.h > tml (June 28 patches)  >  > Windows has the same issue.  >   L Maybe, but recognize that you need only a very minmal version of either OS   to boot D VMS, i.e., you can turn off almost all services, most of which are   responsible for K the various exploits that are reported on.  Think of such a reduced OS as   	 a (large)  bootstrap loader.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:36:01 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: US military and confidentialityR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650FD5@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]=20  > Sent: July 3, 2005 10:42 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality >=203 > On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 10:26:03 -0400, Main, Kerry=20  > <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote: >=20 > >  > >> -----Original Message----- - > >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]  > >> Sent: July 3, 2005 9:32 AM  > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 > >> Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality  > >>6 > >> On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:25:20 GMT, Beach Runner=20 > <bob@nospam.com> wrote:  > >>< > >> > Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and > >> Alphas up forG > >> > months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyber F > >> > attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms.? > >> >  I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can  > >> reboot, and  > >> > doesn't need reliability. > >>7 > >> I think you are somewhat mistaken.  Reliability is  > >> significantly improved,< > >> I use a W2k Dell server as my pop client and for all my > >> business needs, and? > >> it never needs rebooting, aside from power outages, it has  > >> been up as long? > >> as my VMS cluster.  As for hacking, this issue has come up  > >> before and isA > >> a non-issue.  I have an emulator running under Linux on a PC  > >> with two nic  > >> cards, = > >> one for Linux and one for VMS .  So you could put the=20  > Linux behind a
 > >> firewall @ > >> and the other not, for example.  Which is kind of cute, you > >> could ssh or  > >> telnet 8 > >>  from one to the other.  I ran a collection of PL/I > >> benchmarks on the > >> 650MHz P3) > >> and it ran about the same as 4000/90  > >> > >  > > Tom, > > G > > It does not matter if you eliminate unnecessary services etc - when @ > > dealing with Windows and/or Linux as a base OS that is to=20 > be installedG > > on the main network, you still need to apply the vendor recommended  > > monthly security patches.  > > > > > And the big issue is not in applying the patches and/or=20 > potential reboot6 > > time (which if you have hundereds of servers is=20 > significant), but ratherF > > the time to QA/Test these monthly security patches before they are > > released into production.  > > B > > As an example, Red Hat released 28 Linux *security* patches=20 > in June this3 > > year alone. Approx 140+ since Jan of this year.  > >  > > Reference:B > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (Red=20 > Hat Security > > patches) > >=20@ > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/2005-Jun
 e/thread.h > > tml (June 28 patches)  > >  > > Windows has the same issue.  > >  >=20B > Maybe, but recognize that you need only a very minmal version=20 > of either OS =20	 > to boot H > VMS, i.e., you can turn off almost all services, most of which are =20 > responsible for @ > the various exploits that are reported on.  Think of such a=20 > reduced OS as =20  > a (large)  > bootstrap loader.  >=20  D Yep .. Course, even with this approach, you still have to review theD monthly security patches to determine if one of the monthly securityD patches applies to the kernel or ISV software (virus, backup etc) orC device level drivers specific to that system that are not services.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 09:31:33 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality( Message-ID: <opstciuvjtzgicya@hyrrokkin>  I On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:36:01 -0400, Main, Kerry <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote:    >  >> -----Original Message----- + >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]  >> Sent: July 3, 2005 10:42 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ >> Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality  >>1 >> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 10:26:03 -0400, Main, Kerry  >> <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote:  >> >> >  >> >> -----Original Message-----. >> >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]  >> >> Sent: July 3, 2005 9:32 AM >> >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 >> >> Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality >> >> 4 >> >> On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:25:20 GMT, Beach Runner >> <bob@nospam.com> wrote: >> >> = >> >> > Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and  >> >> Alphas up for H >> >> > months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyberG >> >> > attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms. @ >> >> >  I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can >> >> reboot, and ! >> >> > doesn't need reliability.  >> >> 8 >> >> I think you are somewhat mistaken.  Reliability is >> >> significantly improved, = >> >> I use a W2k Dell server as my pop client and for all my  >> >> business needs, and @ >> >> it never needs rebooting, aside from power outages, it has >> >> been up as long @ >> >> as my VMS cluster.  As for hacking, this issue has come up >> >> before and is B >> >> a non-issue.  I have an emulator running under Linux on a PC >> >> with two nic >> >> cards,; >> >> one for Linux and one for VMS .  So you could put the  >> Linux behind a  >> >> firewallA >> >> and the other not, for example.  Which is kind of cute, you  >> >> could ssh or >> >> telnet9 >> >>  from one to the other.  I ran a collection of PL/I  >> >> benchmarks on the  >> >> 650MHz P3 * >> >> and it ran about the same as 4000/90 >> >>  >> >	 >> > Tom,  >> >H >> > It does not matter if you eliminate unnecessary services etc - when> >> > dealing with Windows and/or Linux as a base OS that is to >> be installed H >> > on the main network, you still need to apply the vendor recommended >> > monthly security patches. >> >< >> > And the big issue is not in applying the patches and/or >> potential reboot 4 >> > time (which if you have hundereds of servers is >> significant), but rather G >> > the time to QA/Test these monthly security patches before they are  >> > released into production. >> >@ >> > As an example, Red Hat released 28 Linux *security* patches >> in June this 4 >> > year alone. Approx 140+ since Jan of this year. >> > >> > Reference: @ >> > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (Red >> Hat Security 
 >> > patches)  >> >A >> https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/2005-Jun  > e/thread.h >> > tml (June 28 patches) >> >  >> > Windows has the same issue. >> > >>@ >> Maybe, but recognize that you need only a very minmal version >> of either OS 
 >> to bootE >> VMS, i.e., you can turn off almost all services, most of which are  >> responsible for> >> the various exploits that are reported on.  Think of such a >> reduced OS as >> a (large) >> bootstrap loader. >> > F > Yep .. Course, even with this approach, you still have to review theF > monthly security patches to determine if one of the monthly securityF > patches applies to the kernel or ISV software (virus, backup etc) orE > device level drivers specific to that system that are not services.  > F True, but this is no different than reviewing announced VMS patches toH determine their applicability to your situation.  I haven't tried it butE very likely I could boot my emulator from Linux booted to single user H (don't remember if this requires mounting /usr or not).  I can certainlyG boot without a nic connected to the internet.  I can't see why such a    system% would be less secure than a real VAX.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:52:07 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: US military and confidentialityR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650FD9@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]=20  > Sent: July 3, 2005 12:32 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality >=203 > On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:36:01 -0400, Main, Kerry=20  > <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote: >=20 > >  > >> -----Original Message----- - > >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]   > >> Sent: July 3, 2005 10:42 AM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 > >> Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality  > >>3 > >> On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 10:26:03 -0400, Main, Kerry  > >> <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote:  > >> > >> >" > >> >> -----Original Message-----0 > >> >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]" > >> >> Sent: July 3, 2005 9:32 AM! > >> >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 > >> >> Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality > >> >> 6 > >> >> On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:25:20 GMT, Beach Runner > >> <bob@nospam.com> wrote: > >> >> ? > >> >> > Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and  > >> >> Alphas up for < > >> >> > months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still=20 > subject to cyberA > >> >> > attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS=20  > platforms.B > >> >> >  I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can > >> >> reboot, and # > >> >> > doesn't need reliability.  > >> >> : > >> >> I think you are somewhat mistaken.  Reliability is > >> >> significantly improved, ? > >> >> I use a W2k Dell server as my pop client and for all my  > >> >> business needs, and B > >> >> it never needs rebooting, aside from power outages, it has > >> >> been up as long B > >> >> as my VMS cluster.  As for hacking, this issue has come up > >> >> before and is D > >> >> a non-issue.  I have an emulator running under Linux on a PC > >> >> with two nic > >> >> cards,= > >> >> one for Linux and one for VMS .  So you could put the  > >> Linux behind a  > >> >> firewallC > >> >> and the other not, for example.  Which is kind of cute, you  > >> >> could ssh or > >> >> telnet; > >> >>  from one to the other.  I ran a collection of PL/I  > >> >> benchmarks on the  > >> >> 650MHz P3 , > >> >> and it ran about the same as 4000/90 > >> >>  > >> > > >> > Tom,  > >> >B > >> > It does not matter if you eliminate unnecessary services=20 > etc - when@ > >> > dealing with Windows and/or Linux as a base OS that is to > >> be installed A > >> > on the main network, you still need to apply the vendor=20 
 > recommended   > >> > monthly security patches. > >> >> > >> > And the big issue is not in applying the patches and/or > >> potential reboot 6 > >> > time (which if you have hundereds of servers is > >> significant), but rather < > >> > the time to QA/Test these monthly security patches=20 > before they are   > >> > released into production. > >> >B > >> > As an example, Red Hat released 28 Linux *security* patches > >> in June this 6 > >> > year alone. Approx 140+ since Jan of this year. > >> > > >> > Reference: B > >> > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (Red > >> Hat Security  > >> > patches)  > >> >C > >> https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/2005-Jun  > > e/thread.h > >> > tml (June 28 patches) > >> >" > >> > Windows has the same issue. > >> > > >>B > >> Maybe, but recognize that you need only a very minmal version > >> of either OS  > >> to bootG > >> VMS, i.e., you can turn off almost all services, most of which are  > >> responsible for@ > >> the various exploits that are reported on.  Think of such a > >> reduced OS as > >> a (large) > >> bootstrap loader. > >> > > H > > Yep .. Course, even with this approach, you still have to review theH > > monthly security patches to determine if one of the monthly securityH > > patches applies to the kernel or ISV software (virus, backup etc) orG > > device level drivers specific to that system that are not services.  > > H > True, but this is no different than reviewing announced VMS patches to@ > determine their applicability to your situation.  I haven't=20 > tried it butG > very likely I could boot my emulator from Linux booted to single user ? > (don't remember if this requires mounting /usr or not).  I=20  > can certainly ? > boot without a nic connected to the internet.  I can't see=20  > why such a =20 > system' > would be less secure than a real VAX.  >=20  D Mmm.. OpenVMS does not have 10+ *security* related patches per monthF like Windows or Linux (28 this past June alone). In addition, most VAX? systems today likely have connections to the local intranet.=20   C Using your Linux analogy, I would assume that you have already gone D through all of these Red Hat published security patches to determine. which ones are applicable to your environment.  G I am not saying there is no place for emulator type technologies. There C certainly is e.g. no source code, vendor gone away etc. However, my H preference wrt to best practices will always be from highest priority to lowest):   1. Recompile using native code. F 2. Emulate on similar platform (e.g. VAX emulator on OpenVMS Alpha) if option 1 is not feasible. G 3. Emulate on dissimilar platform (e.g. Linux/Windows) if options 1 and  2 are not feasible.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 10:02:01 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: Vax emulator - Message-ID: <87br5kzlye.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:  A > But, most of the real-time applications need access to various  F > special hardware -- the Alpha version of CHARON-VAX doesn't connect & > to those things (Q-bus cards, etc.).  " What do you plug Q-bus cards into?   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 14:25:05 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for downloadL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0307051025220001@user-uinj4n6.dialup.mindspring.com>  I In article <d9u1oq$ik4$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:    ...    > J >The vast majority of software on the consolidated distribution is old DEC  >software which HP totally owns.+ >Only a few items attract Royalty payments   > ) >From the DECCAMPUS listing for Alpha VMS  > > >ALL-IN-1 Office Server options (in various language variants)
 >DSM/Japanese - >hp Archive backup system (server and client) / >HP Storage Library system for OpenVMS (server) / >HP Storage Library system for OpenVMS (Remote)  >KAP C for openVMS alpha >KAP Fortran for openVMS alpha >HP Pathworks for OpenVMS    >  > ) >TCPIP Services is NOT a royalty product. M >Motif is NOT a royalty product (At least as far as DECCAMPUS is concerned -  J >It's possible there may be a special deal on this and other products for M >education use - or some Royalties might be paid out of the fees charged for   >DECCAMPUS).  I If DECCAMPUS is the European version of CSLG, then there are more royalty  products there.   J There is encumbered stuff in DECwindows motif and in TCP/IP.  I don't know& how much of it has per-copy royalties.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 07:04:51 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 ( Message-ID: <opstcb2dvjzgicya@hyrrokkin>  G On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 14:15:33 -0400, Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com>    wrote:   > Uses for FreeVMS? J >    If it should become popular, it could provide a way to get a LOT of   > applicationsL > running from that system service set. That the system services have been  
 > designedG > to be more secure than most other OSs will help, and will be a more    > effective I > tool for selling the commercial built-like-a-battleship VMS code than   
 > most any' > other measure I see being undertaken.  >  > Glenn Everhart >  > Thierry Dussuet wrote:C >> On 2005-06-30, Phillip Helbig <helbig@multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote:  >>C >>> In article <slrndc5hag.1cb.knatschke@rayleigh.systella.fr>, JKB & >>> <knatschke@koenigsberg.fr> writes: >>>  >>> ? >>>> 	New release available at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/freevms > >>>> 	or http://www.systella.fr/~bertrand/FreeVMS/indexGB.html >>> I >>> Can someone explain to me what the point of FreeVMS is?  A hobbyist   C >>> can get real VMS for free (or, in some countries, almost free). 	 >>> [...] J >>> So, who actually uses FreeVMS, or would be interested in doing so, andI >>> for what?  Other than hacker types, of course, just doing it for fun. K >>   Fancy an operating system feeling like VMS, but on an x86?  Where if    >> somethingI >> doesn't work like you like, you can change it yourself (even if most    >> users2 >> probably wouldn't make use of this feature ;-)) >>  Thierry   H How about OpenSolaris?  Anecdotally it seems few if any would modify it.J http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=164902561   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:32:48 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk% Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 ) Message-ID: <da97g0$cj2$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   N In article <opss8t2gqrzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:K >On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 16:38:15 +0000 (UTC), <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote:  > 3 >> I'm not sure what "trade secrets" VMS still has. & >> The core of VMS dates from 1977/78.! >> Clustering dates from 1983/84.  > , >Trade Secrets unlike patents are perpetual.  # Only so long as they remain secret.   L What algorithms in VMS remain so secret after so many years that noone could9 write a similar algorithm to replicate whatever they do ? K I could imagine that there might be things in very recent developments like H Galaxy which are unique to VMS and might be considered trade secrets but not in the core of VMS.     
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.368 ************************