1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 04 Jul 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 369       Contents:0 Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET0 Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET0 Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET. Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement?. Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement? Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? Re: different topic - personal5 Re: Network card problems? Or something like that.... # Re: Old DEC mailing list: Desperado 3 The man himself Re: Old DEC mailing list: Desperado # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # RE: US military and confidentiality # RE: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality  Re: Vax emulator' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download   Re: VMIC reflective memory crash VMS Opportunity   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 00:14:44 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) 9 Subject: Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0307052015030001@user-105n8e0.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <da9jq1$5d5$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "Richard+ Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote:    >Hi, > M >If I'm shipping a product that has a macro symbol definitions file, should I  >(at VMSINSTAL time) >  >a) Stick it in STARLET.MLB  >b) Stick it in LIB.MLB  >c) Ship my own macro library 
 >d) a n other    C or D.   , Don't put 3rd party stuff in Starlet or lib.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 23:44:15 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>9 Subject: Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET 0 Message-ID: <11chbjgeqovje27@corp.supernews.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: J > In article <da9jq1$5d5$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "Richard- > Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote:  >  >  >>Hi,  >>N >>If I'm shipping a product that has a macro symbol definitions file, should I >>(at VMSINSTAL time)  >> >>a) Stick it in STARLET.MLB >>b) Stick it in LIB.MLB >>c) Ship my own macro library >>d) a n other >  > 	 > C or D.  > . > Don't put 3rd party stuff in Starlet or lib.  ) Don't even put it in the VMS directories.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2005 23:02:50 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET 3 Message-ID: <IsZ5nkLMdUjd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <da9jq1$5d5$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:   N > If I'm shipping a product that has a macro symbol definitions file, should I > (at VMSINSTAL time)  >  > a) Stick it in STARLET.MLB  
 Only if both:   9 	A. You can guarantee the definitions will not change for  	   a new version of VMS  6 	B. The names are all qualified by a VMS facility name7 	   (with dollar sign) registered to you by the Product  	   Registrar.   > b) Stick it in LIB.MLB  
 Only if both:   : 	A. You reasonably believe the definitions will change for 	   a new version of VMS  6 	B. The names are all qualified by a VMS facility name7 	   (with dollar sign) registered to you by the Product  	   Registrar.   > c) Ship my own macro library  A That always works, but the file name should by qualified by a VMS A facility name (with dollar sign) registered to you by the Product 
 Registrar.   > d) a n other  ) Do not expect customers to code in Macro.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2005 12:04:29 -0700  From: icerq4a@spray.se7 Subject: Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement? C Message-ID: <1120417469.869825.250090@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > I > > Back in the days with a number of CISC instruction sets competing for I > > the market it was important to have a second chip vendor implementing N > > the same architecture.  AMD, Cyrix, and I think one more started that way. > M > In the AMD vs Intel document , (posted the link this past week), it was IBM M > who demanded Intel allow a second source for the 8086 architecture. AMD was O > chosen and a contract was written between Intel and AMD allowing Intel access P > to the instruction sets for the 8086 architecture and allowing Intel access toO > instruction sets of whatever chips AMD might develop. (this is interesting in F > the context of Intel using the 64 bit extensions developped by AMD).  G Hardly any news for those who have been around a while in the computing F business. IBM had that requirement, but the major company who had that requirement was Microsoft.  L > In fact, when Intel came out with the 80386, it found all sorts of ways toI > prevent AMD access to the new instructions, which caused AMD to be very M > delayed with its competing product. It had gone to court back then and won.   E Those AMD people who have written that document have got a few things G wrong. Intel did the designs and handed over them to AMD to manufacture F them. AMD was just another factory just like any Intel factory at thatD time. Intel didn't want AMD to manufacture 486 CPUs. Intel wanted toC get out of the business of giving AMD designs between 1985-1995. In 2 1994 AMD began looking at doing their own designs.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:48:46 -0700* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>7 Subject: Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement? 2 Message-ID: <0cudnbG0i4Wy0lXfRVn-iQ@mpowercom.net>  - "mariuz" <mapopa@gmail.com> wrote in message  = news:1120332185.022215.130990@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... 2 >I have one question related to alpha architecture( > Is alpha instruction set free to use ? > 7 > Does it it mean that creating a cpu from scratch with 1 > alpha instruction set HP/Intel will not sue me?  > M When Zilog copied the Intel 8080 instruction set for the Z80 the company had  L to come up with alternate mnemonics for the assembler, since Intel held the L copyright for the 8080 mnemonics.  As I recall Intel was not able to make a J case about the binary implementation, except in so far as it infringed on D hardware patents.  So you do have a problem using the DEC published F mnemonics without copyright permission.  However, I can't see where a K virtual machine can infringe on register level hardware patents, since the  B actual hardware is already covered by the real CPU's manufacturer.  I What about the cases where XDS Sigma, Univac 9300, et al. copied the 360  K instruction set?  Or the Point 4 copy of Data General's Nova architecture?  6 There must be some precedent from the 60's/early 70's.   Jack Peacock     ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:56:38 -0400$ From: "Chris" <an.other@not_here.ca># Subject: Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? 8 Message-ID: <Ez1ye.3019$Ud.174522@news20.bellglobal.com>  J Certainly raises the question often asked of me ....... "Why use a key forK status (Ctrl-T) that is directly beside the key for 'Interrupt' (Ctrl-Y) ?" 4 (answer --> just to keep the adrenaline flowing....)  ( <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message' news:877jg8zlw1.fsf@prep.synonet.com... + > "Zibri" <zibri@NO.libero.SPAM.it> writes:  > ' > >> > Does the 'T' stand for anything?  > >> > >> Probably "terminal" > >> > >> > >> > > @ > > :Trouble and that starts with T and that rhymes with pool... > > , > > :I always thought it was "time", myself. > >  > > :WWWebb  > >  > > I thought it was "TASK" :) > >  > >  > G > I thought it was so it could be finger fumble compatible with T and Y  > in TECO... >  > --  > > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 6076, > comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot0 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 05:35:23 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> # Subject: Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? ? Message-ID: <daahqq$kuh$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>    Hi,    > "Why use a key for) > status (Ctrl-T) that is directly beside % > the key for 'Interrupt' (Ctrl-Y) ?"   6 God bless CONTINUE! What version did that come out in?   Regards Richard Maher   & PS. At least ^P is a bit further away.  / "Chris" <an.other@not_here.ca> wrote in message 2 news:Ez1ye.3019$Ud.174522@news20.bellglobal.com...L > Certainly raises the question often asked of me ....... "Why use a key forJ > status (Ctrl-T) that is directly beside the key for 'Interrupt' (Ctrl-Y) ?"6 > (answer --> just to keep the adrenaline flowing....) > * > <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message) > news:877jg8zlw1.fsf@prep.synonet.com... - > > "Zibri" <zibri@NO.libero.SPAM.it> writes:  > > ) > > >> > Does the 'T' stand for anything?  > > >> > > >> Probably "terminal" > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > B > > > :Trouble and that starts with T and that rhymes with pool... > > > . > > > :I always thought it was "time", myself. > > > 
 > > > :WWWebb  > > >   > > > I thought it was "TASK" :) > > >  > > >  > > I > > I thought it was so it could be finger fumble compatible with T and Y  > > in TECO... > >  > > --  @ > > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,; > > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. D > >                                              West Australia 6076. > > comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot2 > > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.J > > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:43:44 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ' Subject: Re: different topic - personal 4 Message-ID: <42c85d27$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > John Smith wrote: @ >> Unfortunately people are people - most of the time blissfullyA >> ignorant of tragedies and events because it's NIMBY (not in my G >> backyard). Or because they are simply worried about their own plight G >> - they aren't keeping up with the Jones's, or they (in much of North E >> America at least) really *need* that new SUV so they can't 'spare' 0 >> any money to help those who really need basic >  > E > I don't think people are THAT bad. The problem is that they are not 
 > educatedH > by the media which, in the instance of a superpower, tends to focus onD > domestic affairs and only discusses international issues if it can
 > lambasteF > the UN, and this is mostly simply because they see the press releaseD > from the white house of some congressperson who provides them with > read-to-broadcast   > sound bytes lambasting the UN.    J Few people watch documentaries, which are usually made weeks if not months after the events.   J Few watch serious daily news programming - ones which don't feature 50% ofJ its coverage to the 'intern scandal of the week' and the remaining minutesL to fawning over politicians with softball questions so they can retain theirF 'access' to those politicians and political parties, the East WhereverJ Cheerleader Festival and homecomming football game, or firefighters resuce kitten from tree stories.   K For those of you not in Canada or the USA, something like 60% of youth aged   16-24 rely on 'The Daily Show' (G http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/index.jhtml )as their H principal source of news. Don't get me wrong about this - this satiricalE show - on balance - probably does a better and more insightful job of ? covering the real news than all the major US networks combined.     A > Darfur was uncovered by the BBC who brought it to the forefront G > (except in the USA). Eventually the USA was forced to admit there was G > a problem and the USA demanded it be called Genocide and blocked some  > of the efforts the UN wantedE > until they could get their "genocide" thing. Why Genocide ? Because 	 > the USA A > did not want to recognise the ICC since it would make the USA's G > leaders and military leaders possible criminals tried at the ICC.  By D > calling Darfur a genocide, it goes to a different court and avoids > the ICC alltogether. > F > After wasting much time, the USA reluctantly agreed to let Darfur be	 > handled F > by ICC with the caveat that this is not to be seen as a precedent ofE > the USA recognising the authority of the ICC.  Of course, USA media  > do not discuss> > this so americans do not see how things are really going on.  I What's new there? Everyone 'knows' that there is one law for the rich and K famous and another law for those that aren't. The US sees fit to apply this D domestic principle internationally. Only when something particularlyJ egregious occurs - a Worldcom, Enron, etc.... do any of those who "aren't"I get hauled into the wrong side of a courtroom - and even then it is often 3 with great reluctance by prosecutors that they are.   @ Country X wants a military base in Country Y, or has an aircraftJ manufacturer that wants to sell 20 planes to the air force or the nationalI airline of Country Y - blind eyes get turned, excesses are ignored, palms  are greased.      B > Oh, and last week, Bush proudly announced he was doubling aid to	 > Africa. B > Whoopty doo. Just before Live 8, and the G8 summit about Africa. > makes him C > look good on american TV. What the USA media didn't really say is B > that this is nothing new. The USA promised doubling of aid a few > years ago and this is the C > same thing being re-hashed. Good PR, but nothing new to the folks 
 > dying inC > Africa. (And the USA isn't the only country whose politicians use G > similar PR tricks, but this example was blatant, especially since the  > USA is a country@ > that is quite far from the 0.7% of GDP target for donations to > developping nations. >  > F > The biggest gift the USA and Europe could give africa is banning theF > export of subsidized wheat and other agricultural products to Africa > so that AfricansE > would stand a chance to grow their own crops and sell them locally. ? > This would provide employment and generate economic activity.     K Sure they'll do this, as long as Monsanto gets a sole-supplier contract for  GM seed for the whole country.    D > But reducing debt is much easier politically since it doesn't haveF > political ramificatiosn at home with the farmers. Preventing farmers@ > to export their subsidized wheat to africa would deprive local> > farmers from an outlet to dump (litterally) their subsidizedF > products, so politicians much prefer to be seen doing soemthing else! > than the fix the real problems.   # Same for European butter I suspect.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 00:06:18 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)> Subject: Re: Network card problems? Or something like that....; Message-ID: <42c8615a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   " Gremlin <not-here@all.mate> wrote:& > set ewa0_mode without any arguments  > shows twisted-pair,    10 Mbit half duplex    > full duplex twisted pair,    10 Mbit full duplex    > aui, bnc,  > fast,    100 Mbit half duplex   > fastfd   100 Mbit full duplex   > and = > auto-negotiate.  When I try autonegotiate it won't allow it    Odd!  ! > and changes it to twisted pair.   ( ...which would mean 10 Mbit half duplex.  5 > This results in a VMS LANCP setting same as before,   # So LANCP says it's set to 100 Mbit?    > but no better connectivity!   G Of course not. It's crucial to understand that auto-negotiate will only F work if *both* sides are set to use it. Otherwise *both* sides must beF set to the same fixed speed and duplex setting. If your switch doesn'tK allow you to configure that, and you can't set your ewa0 to auto-negotiate,  it's very bad luck.    cu,    Martin --  A So long, and thanks        | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules! 4 for all the books...       | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG In Memoriam Douglas Adams  |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ ;             1952-2001      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2005 17:21:28 -0700 7 From: "Tom Parmenter, Desperado" <tompar@world.std.com> , Subject: Re: Old DEC mailing list: DesperadoC Message-ID: <1120436488.586547.275850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   C This may be double-posted.  I typed this before, but I don't see it  here.   G At any rate, here I am, how can I help you?  Looking for a copy of "DEC  makes a cake mix"?  @ I have the Desperado archives and someday when I am not lazy and= putting things off -- it could happen -- they'll be posted at G www.desperado-list.net.  In the meantime, the web log has been cranking 7 along for two years now at desperado-list.blogspot.com.   	 Yr. bdy., 
 Tom Parmenter   B PS - If you were a spammer, you'd have no trouble mailing to me at= world.std.com, but if it doesn't work and you must write, try - tom-parmenter<commercial-at-sign>comcast.net.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2005 17:14:46 -0700 7 From: "Tom Parmenter, Desperado" <tompar@world.std.com> < Subject: The man himself Re: Old DEC mailing list: DesperadoC Message-ID: <1120436086.007922.290120@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Tim Shoppa wrote:  > Hein writes: > ' > > http://desperado-list.blogspot.com/ > > >  http://www.wired.com/wired/6.04/es_lists.html?pg=4&topic= > I > But neither of the above lead me to an archive of the 1970's Desperado. & >  Believe me, I tried Google already. > I > I also found an E-mail address for Tom at world.std.com, but E-mails to F > that address have not returned anything yet.  (Maybe I'm not patient
 > enough). > D > I suppose I could try commenting in his blog to get his attention. >  > Tim.  F Here I am.  How can I help you?  Looking for "DEC creates a cake mix"?    E I have the Desperado archives and someday when I cease to be lazy and ? put things off -- could happen any time -- they'll be posted at 2 www.desperado-list.net, which is only a shell now.  E In the meantime, http://desperado-list.blogspot.com is pretty active, 1 and has been for a couple of years, all archived.    Yr. bdy,
 Tom Parmenter   @ PS - Maybe if you were a spammer, you could get through to me onE world.std.com, they don't have any trouble, but you can also reach me % at tom-parmenter at-sign comcast.net.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:48:11 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality4 Message-ID: <42c85e32$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   Tom Linden wrote: H > On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:25:20 GMT, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> wrote: > F >> Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and Alphas up forC >> months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyber B >> attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms.G >>  I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can reboot, and  >> doesn't need reliability. > B > I think you are somewhat mistaken.  Reliability is significantlyC > improved, I use a W2k Dell server as my pop client and for all my @ > business needs, and it never needs rebooting, aside from powerE > outages, it has been up as long as my VMS cluster.  As for hacking, & > this issue has come up before and isG > a non-issue.  I have an emulator running under Linux on a PC with two  > nic cards,F > one for Linux and one for VMS .  So you could put the Linux behind a
 > firewallG > and the other not, for example.  Which is kind of cute, you could ssh  > or telnet G >  from one to the other.  I ran a collection of PL/I benchmarks on the  > 650MHz P3 & > and it ran about the same as 4000/90    L I seem to recall that a VAXstation 4000/60 was about the same speed range as a 33Mhz 386    --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:55:03 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality4 Message-ID: <42c85fce$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- + >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]  >> Sent: July 3, 2005 9:32 AM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ >> Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality  >>B >> On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:25:20 GMT, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com>	 >> wrote:  >>9 >>> Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and  >> Alphas up forD >>> months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyberC >>> attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms. < >>>  I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can >> reboot, and >>> doesn't need reliability.  >>5 >> I think you are somewhat mistaken.  Reliability is  >> significantly improved,: >> I use a W2k Dell server as my pop client and for all my >> business needs, and= >> it never needs rebooting, aside from power outages, it has  >> been up as long= >> as my VMS cluster.  As for hacking, this issue has come up  >> before and is? >> a non-issue.  I have an emulator running under Linux on a PC  >> with two nic 	 >> cards, G >> one for Linux and one for VMS .  So you could put the Linux behind a  >> firewall > >> and the other not, for example.  Which is kind of cute, you >> could ssh or 	 >> telnet 6 >>  from one to the other.  I ran a collection of PL/I >> benchmarks on the >> 650MHz P3' >> and it ran about the same as 4000/90  >> >  > Tom, > E > It does not matter if you eliminate unnecessary services etc - when H > dealing with Windows and/or Linux as a base OS that is to be installedE > on the main network, you still need to apply the vendor recommended  > monthly security patches.  > C > And the big issue is not in applying the patches and/or potential F > reboot time (which if you have hundereds of servers is significant),F > but rather the time to QA/Test these monthly security patches before$ > they are released into production. > E > As an example, Red Hat released 28 Linux *security* patches in June 6 > this year alone. Approx 140+ since Jan of this year. >  > Reference:A > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (Red Hat  > Security patches) J > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/2005-June/thread.h > tml (June 28 patches)  >  > Windows has the same issue.      Verry cool Kerry.   L HP Services has got to have a pretty good idea for all its customers who useH Window or Linux just what the 'administrative' burden is per 100 PC's orH servers in dealing with the patch-of-ther day/hour club is and what that' cost is in dollars and manpower wasted.   A Q. When is HP going to advertise VMS's robustness in this regard?   D A. There aren't enough COTS applications left on VMS for the averageK prospect to consider using VMS in the first place. Don't you find it ironic G that HP keeps saying it's the applications that sell VMS yet they do no K advertising to help convince ISV's that building apps for the VMS market is I a good use of the ISV's money? So the answer is why bother - for both the  ISV and HP.      --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:32:44 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality0 Message-ID: <11cgpbg89uhnqc9@corp.supernews.com>   Beach Runner wrote:  >   F > Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and Alphas up for C > months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyber  A > attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms.   N I'm sure the customers would, if they could.  If it's a VAX that's needed, no N Alpha or itanic, then what's their choice?  Their original vendor dropped the H platform they need.  That created the vacuum that the SRI people filled.  L If you're going to say "upgrade to Alpha or itanic" (well, you wouldn't say D 'itanic'), what part of "it's a VAX that's needed" isn't understood?  F > I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can reboot, and  > doesn't need reliability.   E Something is better than nothing, which is where DEC left some folks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:34:20 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality0 Message-ID: <11cgped7877ge07@corp.supernews.com>   John Smith wrote:  > Tom Linden wrote:  > H >>On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:25:20 GMT, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> wrote: >> >>F >>>Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and Alphas up forC >>>months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyber B >>>attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms.G >>> I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can reboot, and  >>>doesn't need reliability. >>B >>I think you are somewhat mistaken.  Reliability is significantlyC >>improved, I use a W2k Dell server as my pop client and for all my @ >>business needs, and it never needs rebooting, aside from powerE >>outages, it has been up as long as my VMS cluster.  As for hacking, & >>this issue has come up before and isG >>a non-issue.  I have an emulator running under Linux on a PC with two  >>nic cards,F >>one for Linux and one for VMS .  So you could put the Linux behind a
 >>firewallG >>and the other not, for example.  Which is kind of cute, you could ssh  >>or telnet G >> from one to the other.  I ran a collection of PL/I benchmarks on the  >>650MHz P3 & >>and it ran about the same as 4000/90 >  >  > N > I seem to recall that a VAXstation 4000/60 was about the same speed range as
 > a 33Mhz 386   I Depends what you're running.  If it's VMS, the VAXstation is much faster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:38:01 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality0 Message-ID: <11cgplasqo5oe9a@corp.supernews.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  E > It does not matter if you eliminate unnecessary services etc - when H > dealing with Windows and/or Linux as a base OS that is to be installedE > on the main network, you still need to apply the vendor recommended  > monthly security patches.    Why?  N How are windoz systems attacked?  Usually via the network interface?  What if H you're running the system without a network interface for the windoz OS?  K Note, it's my very limited understanding that the emulator runs a seperate  = network interface, which windoz doesn't see.  Could be wrong.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 19:41:21 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: US military and confidentialityR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650FE0@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  > Sent: July 3, 2005 5:55 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- - > >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]  > >> Sent: July 3, 2005 9:32 AM  > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 > >> Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality  > >>D > >> On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:25:20 GMT, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> > >> wrote:  > >>; > >>> Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and  > >> Alphas up forF > >>> months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyberE > >>> attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms. > > >>>  I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can > >> reboot, and > >>> doesn't need reliability.  > >>7 > >> I think you are somewhat mistaken.  Reliability is  > >> significantly improved,< > >> I use a W2k Dell server as my pop client and for all my > >> business needs, and? > >> it never needs rebooting, aside from power outages, it has  > >> been up as long? > >> as my VMS cluster.  As for hacking, this issue has come up  > >> before and isA > >> a non-issue.  I have an emulator running under Linux on a PC  > >> with two nic  > >> cards, = > >> one for Linux and one for VMS .  So you could put the=20  > Linux behind a
 > >> firewall @ > >> and the other not, for example.  Which is kind of cute, you > >> could ssh or  > >> telnet 8 > >>  from one to the other.  I ran a collection of PL/I > >> benchmarks on the > >> 650MHz P3) > >> and it ran about the same as 4000/90  > >> > >  > > Tom, > > G > > It does not matter if you eliminate unnecessary services etc - when @ > > dealing with Windows and/or Linux as a base OS that is to=20 > be installedG > > on the main network, you still need to apply the vendor recommended  > > monthly security patches.  > > E > > And the big issue is not in applying the patches and/or potential H > > reboot time (which if you have hundereds of servers is significant),H > > but rather the time to QA/Test these monthly security patches before& > > they are released into production. > > G > > As an example, Red Hat released 28 Linux *security* patches in June 8 > > this year alone. Approx 140+ since Jan of this year. > >  > > Reference:C > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (Red Hat  > > Security patches)  > >=20@ > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/2005-Jun > e/thread.h > > tml (June 28 patches)  > >  > > Windows has the same issue.  >=20 >=20 > Verry cool Kerry.  >=20? > HP Services has got to have a pretty good idea for all its=20  > customers who use A > Window or Linux just what the 'administrative' burden is per=20 
 > 100 PC's or ? > servers in dealing with the patch-of-ther day/hour club is=20  > and what that ) > cost is in dollars and manpower wasted.  >=20C > Q. When is HP going to advertise VMS's robustness in this regard?  >=20F > A. There aren't enough COTS applications left on VMS for the averageA > prospect to consider using VMS in the first place. Don't you=20  > find it ironicA > that HP keeps saying it's the applications that sell VMS yet=20  > they do noB > advertising to help convince ISV's that building apps for the=20 > VMS market is A > a good use of the ISV's money? So the answer is why bother -=20  > for both the
 > ISV and HP.  >=20   John,   E Again, I am not saying external marketing for OpenVMS (or HP-UX, NSK) G could not be improved. However, with regards to getting ISV's moving to C OpenVMS Itanium, behind the scenes folks at HP have doing very well B considering the official Itanium release for OpenVMS was only justG officially released in Jan and many ISV's like to wait for the official . release before starting their porting/testing.  G While marketing is certainly one way of getting ISV's on board, another E approach is to actually talk and work with ISV's and HP has certainly E been doing that. The attendees can attest to how well the ISV partner % night was at the recent boot camp.=20   ) As an example, check out the ISV list at: ? http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/matrix/i64partner_A.html=20   B Certainly one advantage of Itanium for ISV's is that with a singleG Integrity server / small SAN, they can support their software on HP-UX, B Linux and Windows as well as OpenVMS. They only need to change theC console boot pointer to boot a different OS.  And with the DSPP ISV G program (free to join) and workshops they can get a nice Itanium server 4 for all 4 OS's for $2k (not including sw of course).     Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 20:05:30 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: US military and confidentialityR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650FE1@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  > Sent: July 3, 2005 5:55 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality >=20  
 [Snip ...]   >=20C > Q. When is HP going to advertise VMS's robustness in this regard?  >=20F > A. There aren't enough COTS applications left on VMS for the averageA > prospect to consider using VMS in the first place. Don't you=20  > find it ironicA > that HP keeps saying it's the applications that sell VMS yet=20  > they do noB > advertising to help convince ISV's that building apps for the=20 > VMS market is A > a good use of the ISV's money? So the answer is why bother -=20  > for both the
 > ISV and HP.  >=20 >=20   John,   F Re: HP working with ISV's and Customers on moving to OpenVMS Itanium -F not sure if this was previously reported on the newsgroup, but just in9 case: (I believe Wayne posts occasionally here on c.o.v.)   ; Just happened to be on the DSPP pages and noticed this url: H http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/bus/bus_BusDetailPage_IDX/1,1252,7721,00. htmlD "Winning with DSPP: First OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS on Integrity Server# Port Completed at a Workshop Event"   @ "The HP & Intel(r) Developer Workshop, held April 26-28 in Tampa@ Florida, was the site of the first OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS I64 onG Intel(r) Itanium(r) port to be completed at a Developer Workshop event. H Wayne Seifert, System Developer for Lieberman Technologies of EvansvilleG Indiana, completed the port within two days during the event. The event B was available to companies in the HP DSPP program as a member-only benefit.=20   F Mr. Seifert attended the workshop with the goal of porting and testingH two of the company's applications as well as testing an array of generalH utilities and subroutines.  "The workshop was superb. I was very pleasedE with how smooth the porting process was and with the level of support C provided at the workshop".  After completing the ports, Mr. Seifert G tested the HP Integrity server by running several standard reports. Two C reports, each of which had typically taken 45 minutes to an hour to A complete, ran in less than one minute on the HP Integrity server.   B Lieberman Technologies provides consulting, design and developmentH services to small and medium businesses.  In addition to custom softwareF development, the company offers turnkey applications for health centerG billing systems, scheduling packages and retail applications. Lieberman D Technologies recently migrated all of their internal applications toG Itanium, and is in the process of transitioning all of their clients to > HP Itanium Integrity servers. More information about Lieberman! Technologies at http://LTnow.com"   	 [snip ..]   E Btw, they have nice web page for moving from VAX/Alpha to Integrity - ! click on link on their home page.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 20:42:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality, Message-ID: <42C88609.5B507376@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:I > could not be improved. However, with regards to getting ISV's moving to E > OpenVMS Itanium, behind the scenes folks at HP have doing very well D > considering the official Itanium release for OpenVMS was only justI > officially released in Jan and many ISV's like to wait for the official 0 > release before starting their porting/testing.    K There is a huge difference between convicing existing VMS ISVs to spend the N money to port to that IA64 thing, and attracting NEW applications and new ISVs to VMS.   I If you start off with 0 applications on VMS-IA64, you can easily generate K fantrastic growth statistics because you're dealing only with IA64 things.    J Howver, since the installed base is Alpha and VAX, it is also important toH attract ISVs to Alpha and VAX.  More so than some tiny IA64 marketplace.  J Now, if Motif/X11 were on the roadmap, perhaps you could get Corel to portF wordperfect to VMS. Perhaps you could get Open Office fully ported andI supported.  But none of the GUI applications will risk any porting effort D since VMS management steadfastedly omit Motif/X11 from the roadmaps.    I > While marketing is certainly one way of getting ISV's on board, another G > approach is to actually talk and work with ISV's and HP has certainly  > been doing that.  F Have they gone to SWIFT and begged SWIFT to reconsider VMS as a targetN platform for their fund transfer software ? Have they apoligised for the deeds of Palmer and Curly ?   N Has HP gone to HP and asked them to reconsider VMS as a platform ? Or are they happy that HP-UX runs SAP ?     D > Certainly one advantage of Itanium for ISV's is that with a singleI > Integrity server / small SAN, they can support their software on HP-UX, ' > Linux and Windows as well as OpenVMS.     L Not when HP-UX customers are still on PaRisc and when Linux customers are on* 8086s and most VMS customers on Alpha/VAX.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:29:04 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality( Message-ID: <opstdaiqfhzgicya@hyrrokkin>  E On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:48:11 -0400, John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:    > Tom Linden wrote: I >> On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:25:20 GMT, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> wrote:  >>G >>> Sharon VAX is STILL a PC.   I typically see VAXes and Alphas up for D >>> months or years.  How about PCs?  PCs are still subject to cyberC >>> attacks.  VMS protects our nation.   Run on real VMS platforms. H >>>  I see Charon VAX a useful place for an engineer who can reboot, and >>> doesn't need reliability.  >>C >> I think you are somewhat mistaken.  Reliability is significantly D >> improved, I use a W2k Dell server as my pop client and for all myA >> business needs, and it never needs rebooting, aside from power F >> outages, it has been up as long as my VMS cluster.  As for hacking,' >> this issue has come up before and is H >> a non-issue.  I have an emulator running under Linux on a PC with two
 >> nic cards, G >> one for Linux and one for VMS .  So you could put the Linux behind a  >> firewall H >> and the other not, for example.  Which is kind of cute, you could ssh >> or telnetH >>  from one to the other.  I ran a collection of PL/I benchmarks on the >> 650MHz P3' >> and it ran about the same as 4000/90  >  > G > I seem to recall that a VAXstation 4000/60 was about the same speed   
 > range as
 > a 33Mhz 386   H Don't know how you can compare them.  What I did was to run a collectionH of benchmarks, which we have for PL/I which excercise a number of thingsI including ISAM and the like.  And remember these are run under a software : running under Linux, so ther is a fair amount of overhead.   >  > --H > OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV > base.  >  >  > H > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet   > News==----C > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!    > 120,000+ Newsgroups I > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption    > =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:19:27 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: Vax emulator . Message-ID: <42C81E1F.26464.54256DD@localhost>  4 On 3 Jul 2005 at 10:02, prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:$ > What do you plug Q-bus cards into?  5 A Q-bus to PCI converter made by the Logical Company.   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2005 21:22:42 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download+ Message-ID: <3ir392Fljoq7U2@individual.net>   ( In article <opstclvutdzgicya@hyrrokkin>,& 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:0 > On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:30:00 -0400, JF Mezei  ' > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  > I >> If there were some formal way for hobbysist to report such glitches,   	 >> then I J >> would have taken the time to save the output to file and report it. ButI >> because there is no formal way to report bugs, it just isn't worth it.  > 7 > More than one HP employee has suggested posting here.   D I have never had a problem loading a PAK that didn't turn out in the end to be some mistake I made.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2005 16:00:34 -0700 ; From: "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" <tomarsin2015@comcast.net> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for downloadC Message-ID: <1120431634.346247.109270@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   B This has been very interesting. When time permitts I will add my 2 cents since I started this.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 00:44:13 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) ) Subject: Re: VMIC reflective memory crash L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0307052044110001@user-105n8e0.dialup.mindspring.com>  
 In articleK <OF3780AFDD.CC24CFF5-ON07257030.006676D5-07257030.0066F6B3@mck.us.ray.com>, - David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote:    >Folks:  > D >I have a VMIC RFM2G (5565) reflective memory card (it's a PCI card)K >installed on an Alpha ES45 running VMS 7.3-2.  The driver was written by a - >contractor because VMIC doesn't support VMS.  > C >From time to time, VMIC memory is shifted 8 bytes and VMS crashes.   @ When VMS crashes, are you getting crash dumps?  If not, start byB configuring the system to generate dumps.  I recommend testing the& configuration by forcing VMS to crash.  F The default crash dump file is SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP.  After a crash,J save a copy of the dump in another file, so it won't be overwritten if the system crashes again:   & $ ANALYZE/CRASH SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP+ SDA> COPY SYS$SYSTEM:<descriptive name>.DMP   < Start your investigation with the CLUE CRASH command in SDA:   SDA> CLUE CRASH     L >I need some help - I'm not into crash dumps or XDELTA -- I don't know where* >to start.  Any tips would be appreciated.  I If the problem is due to a bug in the device driver, you'll need accurate # compiler listings and linker maps .    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2005 21:20:53 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: VMS Opportunity+ Message-ID: <3ir35kFljoq7U1@individual.net>   A For those who remember him, Bob Curley is retiring and that means ? his position is up for grabs.  You could probably talk with him > if you have specific questions about the position. I'm posting? it for general knowledge as I really have little if any contact 7 with the department hos ting beyond Bob being a friend.   
 ----------    > Systems Administrator  Classification  Professional; Installs,H configures, maintains and customizes assigned systems software; performsD system administration functions regarding assigned systems software,F electronic mail, calendar and directory service systems; evaluates andE makes recommendations regarding new and current hardware and software G components; establishes and maintains aspects regarding system security E and required patches; maintains a current understanding of the latest G developments in hardware and software. Minimum of a bachelors degree in I Computer Science or a related field and a at least three years of systems G programming and systems administration in at least one of the following H environments; UNIX, OpenVMS, W2K Server. Applications accepted until the position if filled.   H Additional information can be obtained by contacting the Human Resources Department, (570) 941-7767.    ----------------   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.369 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        
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