1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 05 Jul 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 371       Contents: Re: 04-JUL-2005  Re: 04-JUL-2005  Re: 04-JUL-2005  Re: 04-JUL-2005 0 Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET8 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 interesting dated KO interview5 Re: Network card problems? Or something like that.... 5 Re: Network card problems? Or something like that.... 5 RE: Network card problems? Or something like that.... # RE: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality < VMS732_SHADOWING V4.0, mount verification, solid-state disks Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 17:59:05 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: 04-JUL-20050 Message-ID: <00A46429.013B3DC6@SendSpamHere.ORG>  d In article <42c94d54$0$31104$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:I >Happy Independence Day to our Friends from the United States of America.   , It's not everything it's cracked up to be...  L After all, taxation *with* representation isn't all that great and certainly not worthy of all the hoopla.    --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 15:31:43 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: 04-JUL-2005= Message-ID: <p7ednc7x_vcCE1TfRVn-uA@metrocastcablevision.com>    Doc. wrote: C > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG,  wrote in news:00A46429.013B3DC6@SendSpamHere.ORG  >  > E >>In article <42c94d54$0$31104$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi # >><prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:   >>B >>>Happy Independence Day to our Friends from the United States of >>>America.  >>. >>It's not everything it's cracked up to be... >>D >>After all, taxation *with* representation isn't all that great and) >>certainly not worthy of all the hoopla.  >  >  > Nevermind. > M > Just celebrate the independence of your country by blowing up a small part   > of it. :-)  E Alas, that kind of revolutionary spirit appears to be in regrettably  D short supply here these days.  But perhaps some external party will 3 'liberate' us - that seems to be in fashion lately.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 20:54:27 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: 04-JUL-20050 Message-ID: <00A46441.80D99A47@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ^ In article <Xns9689D459B52D5dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>, "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> writes:B >%NEWS-I-NEWMSG,  wrote in news:00A46429.013B3DC6@SendSpamHere.ORG > F >> In article <42c94d54$0$31104$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi$ >> <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes: B >>>Happy Independence Day to our Friends from the United States of >>>America.  >>  / >> It's not everything it's cracked up to be...  >>  E >> After all, taxation *with* representation isn't all that great and * >> certainly not worthy of all the hoopla. >  >Nevermind.  > L >Just celebrate the independence of your country by blowing up a small part  >of it. :-)   < Hmm... OK.  How about the Infernal Revenue Service building?   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 04 Jul 2005 21:32:17 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> Subject: Re: 04-JUL-20057 Message-ID: <Xns9689EF926DFBAdcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   A %NEWS-I-NEWMSG,  wrote in news:00A46441.80D99A47@SendSpamHere.ORG   @ > In article <Xns9689D459B52D5dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>, "Doc."" > <doc@openvms-rocks.com> writes: C >>%NEWS-I-NEWMSG,  wrote in news:00A46429.013B3DC6@SendSpamHere.ORG  >>G >>> In article <42c94d54$0$31104$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi % >>> <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:  C >>>>Happy Independence Day to our Friends from the United States of 
 >>>>America.   >>> 0 >>> It's not everything it's cracked up to be... >>> F >>> After all, taxation *with* representation isn't all that great and+ >>> certainly not worthy of all the hoopla.  >> >>Nevermind. >>G >>Just celebrate the independence of your country by blowing up a small  >>part of it. :-)  > > > Hmm... OK.  How about the Infernal Revenue Service building?  & Now there's an institution we could...  0 Shhh!  You'll get us both on the no fly list. :)  B "Honest officer, my off-the-cuff comment on Usenet was just about  fireworks."      Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jul 2005 16:36:03 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET 3 Message-ID: <zOjTQzE+h7Ub@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <dab4l0$rpi$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:   = >> A. You can guarantee the definitions *WILL NOT* change for  >>    a new version of VMS > 	 > LIB.MLB > >> A. You reasonably believe the definitions *WILL* change for >>    a new version of VMS > N > Why the difference? Are you saying that LIB gets replaced with a new version% > of VMS and STARLET is just updated?   B I am saying that users of STARLET expect their use to persist over@ VMS version changes, while users of LIB know they are at risk of4 needing to account for changes between VMS versions.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jul 2005 11:27:03 -0700 ! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 C Message-ID: <1120501623.898084.272180@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 Dear Richard,   : Not pointed to you at all, responding to my original post.   Sue    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jul 2005 11:32:08 -0700 ! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 B Message-ID: <1120501928.812705.82420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  F Not only is not pointed at you at all, I am not angry at all in fact IG am excited and being passionate.  I would much rather have some control 
 over my fate.    sorry if it sounds like anger    sue    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 15:25:42 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 = Message-ID: <ltudnS1VUtmrEFTfRVn-vA@metrocastcablevision.com>    Robert Deininger wrote: 7 > In article <42C62BB9.9A7742B2@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei  > <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> wrote:  >  > $ >>susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: >> >>>JF and everyone else,I >>>And you think posting notes in response here is going to do something? J >>>What? the only people that read this are the folks already doing stuff. >>N >>Sue, while some of the stuff is perhaps not really constructuve, much of theN >>stuff is. Remember that many of us are pushing to get HP to agree to includeL >>VMS as a core product and market it just as it does the rest. And our onlyM >>means is to consistently point out the areas where HP is not marketing VMS,  >>missed opportunities etc.  >  > G > The people you are trying to influence at HP don't read comp.os.vms.  J > Period.  Maybe you should look for an alternative communication channel.  B Ever heard the advice "Think globally, act locally?"  This is the G locality of the people you're talking about, and this is where they're   acting.    > L > The garbage spewed here by you and "John Smith" and a handful of others IS
 > harmful.  F Tough tooties.  If you don't like it, *CHANGE WHAT CAUSES IT*, rather H than complain about the very legitimate symptoms which arise from those  causes.   H c.o.v. is one of the places where newcomers need to be warned (and some G veterans appear to need reminding) about HP's neglect of VMS (and what  F it quite likely signifies about VMS's future) until such time as that > neglect is corrected.  And a truckload of happy-talk, however 2 well-intentioned, is not going to accomplish that.  ? I've been telling people like you for 4 years now (did the 4th  E anniversary of the Alphacide just pass completely unnoticed?) to get  G used to it, but I guess some of you are slow learners.  That, however,   is your problem, not ours.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jul 2005 13:54:34 -0700 ! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 C Message-ID: <1120510474.574135.241250@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Richard please send me mail  sue    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:45:23 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> ' Subject: interesting dated KO interview < Message-ID: <nlgye.180692$IO.108615@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>  ' http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Olsen.html    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 06:56:59 +1000# From: "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate> > Subject: Re: Network card problems? Or something like that....- Message-ID: <42c9a29b@duster.adelaide.on.net>    Hi Kerry  K The Netgear switch is about 1 year old, the DEC card is...........5 years?  L OVMS7.2-2, no patches, no ECO - just trying to get it up so that at least I  can download same!!     3 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in message  L news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650FEC@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...   > -----Original Message-----* > From: Gremlin [mailto:not-here@all.mate] > Sent: July 4, 2005 7:29 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com @ > Subject: Re: Network card problems? Or something like that.... >  > Hi Martin  > ? > Yes, very bad luck - it is a Netgear 24 port unmanaged switch  > and currently > > supports autonegotiate for a HP Netserver, 5 Wintel boxes, 2 > DS10Ls, a 4 > couple of Linux boxes and a Solaris box.  Only the > AlphaServer is fussy -< > the remainder are quite happy.  Setting it to any speed or > duplex makes no ; > difference, let alone auto-negotiate - and I have put two  > different cards   > in, just in case.  Sad........ >  > Thanks >  >   H Just curious, but what version of the OS and patch levels are you using?    + Also, what type of NIC cards are you using?   H As I recall, there was some OpenVMS eco's to LAN drivers awhile ago that! fixed some auto-negotiate issues.   A Note - from what I have heard, there used to be a big gap in what G various network vendors viewed as the "standard" for how auto-negotiate B should have been handled. While most recent network devices do notC typically have problems, many older switches have had compatibility   issues with different NIC cards.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)   4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 22:53:29 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> > Subject: Re: Network card problems? Or something like that....< Message-ID: <J5jye.216769$w15.93250@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>   Gremlin wrote:   > Hi Martin  > N > Yes, very bad luck - it is a Netgear 24 port unmanaged switch and currently I > supports autonegotiate for a HP Netserver, 5 Wintel boxes, 2 DS10Ls, a  L > couple of Linux boxes and a Solaris box.  Only the AlphaServer is fussy - M > the remainder are quite happy.  Setting it to any speed or duplex makes no  L > difference, let alone auto-negotiate - and I have put two different cards   > in, just in case.  Sad........  E I have a Netgear box.  Only my DS10 100 mb full duplex has problems.   DHCP times out.    >  > Thanks >  > B > "Martin Vorlaender" <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote in message 7 > news:42c8615a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de...  > $ >>Gremlin <not-here@all.mate> wrote: >>& >>>set ewa0_mode without any arguments >>>shows twisted-pair, >> >>10 Mbit half duplex  >> >> >>>full duplex twisted pair, >> >>10 Mbit full duplex  >> >> >>>aui, bnc, >>>fast, >> >>100 Mbit half duplex >> >>	 >>>fastfd  >> >>100 Mbit full duplex >> >> >>>and> >>>auto-negotiate.  When I try autonegotiate it won't allow it >> >>Odd! >> >>" >>>and changes it to twisted pair. >>* >>...which would mean 10 Mbit half duplex. >> >>6 >>>This results in a VMS LANCP setting same as before, >>% >>So LANCP says it's set to 100 Mbit?  >> >> >>>but no better connectivity! >>I >>Of course not. It's crucial to understand that auto-negotiate will only H >>work if *both* sides are set to use it. Otherwise *both* sides must beH >>set to the same fixed speed and duplex setting. If your switch doesn't> >>allow you to configure that, and you can't set your ewa0 to  >>auto-negotiate,  >>it's very bad luck.  >> >>cu, 	 >> Martin  >>--  C >>So long, and thanks        | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules! 6 >>for all the books...       | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deI >>In Memoriam Douglas Adams  |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ = >>           1952-2001      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 23:35:19 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> > Subject: RE: Network card problems? Or something like that....R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB651035@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: Gremlin [mailto:not-here@all.mate]=20  > Sent: July 4, 2005 4:57 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com @ > Subject: Re: Network card problems? Or something like that.... >=20
 > Hi Kerry >=209 > The Netgear switch is about 1 year old, the DEC card=20  > is...........5 years?=20@ > OVMS7.2-2, no patches, no ECO - just trying to get it up so=20 > that at least I=20 > can download same!!  >=20  
 Check out: Release notes:G ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V7.2-2/VMS722_LAN-V0500.txt    Patch kit download: H ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V7.2-2/VMS722_LAN-V0500.PCSI -DCX_AXPEXE   D It looks like a few auto-negotiate and other LAN driver fixes are in this patch kit.=20   Some extracts:C o  The EIA (82558, 82559, 82559ER, DE600, DE602 PCI Ethernet)device F driver is treating the console environment variable EIx0_MODE  settingE of  "twisted-pair"  as   "Full-Duplex, Twisted-pair",  so  it  should A select half-duplex 10 mbit mode, but selects full-duplex instead.   G o  The EIA (82558, 82559, 82559ER, DE600, DE602 PCI Ethernet)device  is C not being set up correctly, generally resulting in  a  duplex  mode H mismatch  problem,  if  the   console environment variable, EIx0_MODE is set to FastFD.  & See release notes for additional info.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 14:53:22 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>, Subject: RE: US military and confidentiality. Message-ID: <42C94D62.18723.9E2E18B@localhost>  * On 3 Jul 2005 at 13:52, Main, Kerry wrote:B > However, my preference wrt to best practices will always be from > highest priority to lowest):   > H > 2. Emulate on similar platform (e.g. VAX emulator on OpenVMS Alpha) if > option 1 is not feasible.   D Now that the VAX 6660 emulator on Alpha has been announced, you now $ have a wider range of possibilities.  D I do have customers who won't accept a Windows solution.  For some, A it's a technical reason.  For others, it's an emotional reason.   8 Either way, SRI and its resellers strive to please.  :-)  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 15:01:59 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>, Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality- Message-ID: <42C94F67.2972.9EAC26D@localhost>   * On 3 Jul 2005 at 7:09, Beach Runner wrote:. > It's still sitting on top of a dangerous os.  D Most of my customers want a Windows solution.  It's the old saying, F "better the devil you know that the devil you don't".  For them, it's + an emotional decision, not a technical one.   9 > How many Charon VAXes have been up for rears at a time?   F Since CHARON-VAX has only been around for a few years, we're going to  have to wait for that one.  B > Incidently, thanks for proving VMS can run on a simple platform.  B Thanks. I run it on my 1 GHz Pentium III laptop frequently.  I've C done software development on a plane en-route to a customer site.   F And I do demos this way all the time.  I have one customer who bought E a copy specifically to have a travelling VMS system to take on field   service calls around the world. 
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 22:25:08 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality< Message-ID: <8Hiye.141057$VH2.98775@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>   Stanley F. Quayle wrote:  , > On 3 Jul 2005 at 7:09, Beach Runner wrote: > . >>It's still sitting on top of a dangerous os. >  > F > Most of my customers want a Windows solution.  It's the old saying, H > "better the devil you know that the devil you don't".  For them, it's - > an emotional decision, not a technical one.  >  > 9 >>How many Charon VAXes have been up for rears at a time?  >  > H > Since CHARON-VAX has only been around for a few years, we're going to  > have to wait for that one. >  > B >>Incidently, thanks for proving VMS can run on a simple platform. >  > D > Thanks. I run it on my 1 GHz Pentium III laptop frequently.  I've E > done software development on a plane en-route to a customer site.   H > And I do demos this way all the time.  I have one customer who bought G > a copy specifically to have a travelling VMS system to take on field  ! > service calls around the world.  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. > , It proved it could have been done all along.   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 20:13:29 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)E Subject: VMS732_SHADOWING V4.0, mount verification, solid-state disks $ Message-ID: <dac599$88g$1@online.de>  H First, let me point out that his concerns a hobbyist machine, and run inH a non-supported configuration (48 MB with VMS 7.3-2; yes, it works, but D it is slower than 7.3-1 on the same machine).  I don't think either B point is relevant to the problem, though.  Of course, there is no G support contract for this.  I'm posting here a) in the hope of getting  I an answer and b) to alert folks with support contracts (and other folks)  5 to file a formal bug report if there is indeed a bug.   D 6 weeks ago, I installed 7.3-2 on a DEC 3000.  The system disk is a M shadow set of 2 RZ29 disks in a BA356.  I had another shadow set in the same  I box, namely two 258-MB solid-state disks (I forget the model number; DEC  G disks, EZ-something-or-other).  I had secondary swap and page files on   this shadow set.  A All was OK for the next month.  I then installed several patches:   P DEC AXPVMS VMS732_SHADOWING V4.0    Patch       Install     19-JUN-2005 08:06:21P DEC AXPVMS VMS732_MANAGE V3.0       Patch       Install     19-JUN-2005 08:03:47P DEC AXPVMS VMS732_LMF V1.0          Patch       Install     19-JUN-2005 08:01:44P DEC AXPVMS VMS732_JOBCTL V1.0       Patch       Install     19-JUN-2005 07:59:54P DEC AXPVMS VMS732_IOGEN V1.0        Patch       Install     19-JUN-2005 07:55:03P DEC AXPVMS VMS732_AMATHRTL V1.0     Patch       Install     19-JUN-2005 07:53:12P DEC AXPVMS TCPIP_ECO V5.4-155       Patch       Install     19-JUN-2005 07:50:37P DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF_ECO02 V1.3-1     Patch       Install     19-JUN-2005 07:42:42  H after which I noticed the following problem:  After mounting the shadow I set, which immediately goes into a merge state (probably unavoidable due  F to the page and swap files, but since it's solid-state, it is quick), H all is fine until the merge is about 90% complete.  The shadow set then E goes in and out of mount verification very quickly in a never-ending  > loop.  One can mount the individual members of the shadow set E individually and all looks OK (they come up read-only since they are   part of a shadow set).  A Of the patches above, I think that only the shadowing patch could G conceivably be causing the problem.  I think it is rather unlikely that G there is some hardware problem which just happened to occur immediately  after I applied the patches.    ' Can anyone reproduce the above problem?   E Since the shadowing patch was the last one I applied, and I saved the H recovery data, presumably I can undo it.  In three weeks, I'll have timeE to try this out.  (The messages from PRODUCT concerning recovery data E are very confusing.  I always say yes when asked to continue, and say H yes to save recovery data.  It is not clear to me if only the last patchH can be undone or all patches (at least all unrelated patches), since theD message also says something about "patches not participating in this> installation will not be affected.  Does anyone else find this confusing?)   E On the other hand, maybe another shadowing patch will be out by then.   ? Perhaps related: The last VMS732_FIBRE_SCSI I have is V4.0.  I  F downloaded V5.0 and V6.0 only to see that they were recalled before I F had time to install them.  Does anyone know what's going on here?  It D would be nice if, after a patch is recalled (and appears with a dot G before it on the patch site), it is replaced with a description of why  B it was recalled and an estimate as to when the next patch will be  available).    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 19:00:27 +0000 (UTC)0 From: helbig@multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig)% Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 0 Message-ID: <dac10b$2qk$4@fiasco.xenopsyche.net>  N In article <3ij2vqFlmgafU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:   G >Not meaning to shoot you down as I kinda like what your doing but..... E >It took, what, 20 some years for VMS to get where it is today with a D >building full of engineers dedicagted to the task.  How long do youE >figure it will take a handfull of people playing in their spare time  >to dupliacte that task?  A Exactly.  And the fact that a handfull of people playing in their B spare time were able to duplicate something like a commercial unixG system shows that commercial unix was developed by a handfull of people H playing in their spare time (which I believe it was).  OK, I exaggerate, but only slightly.   ------------------------------   Date: 04 Jul 2005 19:33:37 GMT/ From: Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch> % Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 0 Message-ID: <slrndcj3oh.1mf.thierry@MARS.Family>  @ On 2005-07-04, Phillip Helbig <helbig@multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote:B > In article <slrndc8kdr.1vn.thierry@MARS.Family>, Thierry Dussuet" ><thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch> writes: > > >>Fancy an operating system feeling like VMS, but on an x86?   > L > No.  I prefer VAX hardware.  Why?  Because machines I have which have beenF > running continuously since 1989 are still up and running (the latestF > version of VMS).  These days, one can get them for free, so the cost1 > argument ("x86 is cheaper") doesn't even apply.   O You have my full agreement here, but x86 is available to the masses, while most O won't have heard of VMS, and when asked about a VAX they will answer about wax. 6 It's just my personal little hope that x86 would help.   Thierry    ------------------------------    Date: 04 Jul 2005 22:16:39 +0200( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>% Subject: Re: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 4 Message-ID: <cs9u0jawcm0.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE>  2 helbig@multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig) writes:  E > In article <cs9d5q338dt.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE>, Andreas Davour  > <ante@update.uu.se> writes:  > = > >> Can someone explain to me what the point of FreeVMS is?   > > K > >I'm *not* speaking for the FreeVMS team in any way, but think I have one  > >answer to offer. This is it: . > >http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free.html > > I > >If VMS is the best operating system there is, then there is imperative " > >that it is to be reimplemented. > B > Few things I have read have angered me more than this manifesto.  F It always induces strong feelings amongst readers. It's part of why itG exists. I for one think it have changed and will continue to change the  world, for the better. YMMD.    G At least where I'm living you may think whatever you like, so leave the D anger and enjoy the summer! VMS is still one of the most fascinatingD pieces of software engineering I've encountered - regardless of what philosophy rules the world. :)   /Andreas   --  A A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. ' Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?  A: Top-posting. ; Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.371 ************************