1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 09 Jul 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 379       Contents: DECnet over DSSI Re: DECnet over DSSI Re: DECnet over DSSI Re: DECnet over DSSI Re: DECnet over DSSI Re: DECnet over DSSI Re: DECnet over DSSI Re: DECnet over DSSI Re: DECnet over DSSI, Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment0 Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment0 Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment0 Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment0 Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment; Re: IS the Hobbyist program active, I can't get any results 5 Re: Network card problems? Or something like that.... 5 Re: Network card problems? Or something like that.... D Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD RE: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks Re: Upgrading VMS  Re: Upgrading VMS  Re: Vax emulator  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 20:28:28 +0200& From: "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> Subject: DECnet over DSSI ; Message-ID: <7d2ac$42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl>   I Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved ) loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen. 2 The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus? If so, with what driver?   Hans   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 13:45:12 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: DECnet over DSSI 3 Message-ID: <50hwIOMHoDHO@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <7d2ac$42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl>, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> writes:K > Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved + > loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen. 4 > The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus? > If so, with what driver?  E    IIRC you can use DECnet from the console of a VAX 3000 or later to M    connect to the DSSI controller in any data node (to set params and such),  H    but that's the limit.  No connecting directly form VMS, no connecting'    to the controller on another system.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 21:16:22 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr>  Subject: Re: DECnet over DSSI 3 Message-ID: <42ced109$0$8174$626a14ce@news.free.fr>    Bob Koehler wrote:  f > In article <7d2ac$42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl>, "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> writes: > K >>Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved + >>loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen. 4 >>The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus? >>If so, with what driver? >  > G >    IIRC you can use DECnet from the console of a VAX 3000 or later to O >    connect to the DSSI controller in any data node (to set params and such),  J >    but that's the limit.  No connecting directly form VMS, no connecting) >    to the controller on another system.   ! What are we talking about here???   Q The CI is a hardware link between to systems in a Cluster, which vehiculates any  G kind of protocols, among them fortunately DECnet to enable inter-nodes  K communication. Never heard of any specific CYDRIVER to load to have DECnet   working in a CI cluster...!   O DSSI stands for Digital Storage Systems Interconnect. To me DECnet has nothing  7 to do with Storage Devices, or am I getting really old?    D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:28:37 -0700* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> Subject: Re: DECnet over DSSI 2 Message-ID: <7o2dndgIFp9rfFPfRVn-vg@mpowercom.net>  ; "Didier Morandi" <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> wrote in message  - news:42ced109$0$8174$626a14ce@news.free.fr... I > DSSI stands for Digital Storage Systems Interconnect. To me DECnet has  A > nothing to do with Storage Devices, or am I getting really old?  > M The original poster may have DECnet confused with the MOP protocol to access  M DSSI drives from the console or VMS.  It was used to set unit node names and  L numbers (for shared buses and shadowing) and other useful parameters.  As I = recall it was a $ SET HOST/DSSI command, something like that.   F Was it VMS engineering types who so often pointed out that MOP is not / DECnet, even if they are both on the same wire?    Jack Peacock     ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 15:57:30 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: DECnet over DSSI 3 Message-ID: <zcjFUGLyOhKJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <42ced109$0$8174$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:  > Q > DSSI stands for Digital Storage Systems Interconnect. To me DECnet has nothing  9 > to do with Storage Devices, or am I getting really old?   E    CI controllers originally tended to have serial ports, so that you J    could set up and manage the controllers, but IIRC DECnet was also made F    available and you could actually use DECnet host to host (The earlyK    HS contollers were PDP-11 based and lots of PDP-11 did DECnet).  CI was  N    not a dumb storage bus like MASSBUS, it originally was designed to support J    SCS protocols.  DSSI was implemented to support SCS protocols, too, andC    DSSI controllers originally did not tend to have serial ports to G    do things like controller setup, so DECnet (I think) was implemented 5    enough to allow a remote terminal-like connection.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 16:01:03 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: DECnet over DSSI 3 Message-ID: <BFaIMevQ+9BN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <7o2dndgIFp9rfFPfRVn-vg@mpowercom.net>, "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> writes: = > "Didier Morandi" <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> wrote in message  / > news:42ced109$0$8174$626a14ce@news.free.fr... J >> DSSI stands for Digital Storage Systems Interconnect. To me DECnet has B >> nothing to do with Storage Devices, or am I getting really old? >>O > The original poster may have DECnet confused with the MOP protocol to access  O > DSSI drives from the console or VMS.  It was used to set unit node names and  N > numbers (for shared buses and shadowing) and other useful parameters.  As I ? > recall it was a $ SET HOST/DSSI command, something like that.  > H > Was it VMS engineering types who so often pointed out that MOP is not 1 > DECnet, even if they are both on the same wire?   G    The command from the console was >>> set host/dup/dssi .  DUP is not B    MOP, I think it's derived from CTERM or RTPAD, which are DECnet    based utilities.   H    From VMS the command to get to a CI controller is $set host/hsc , andF    to get to a DSSI controller $set host/dup ; my earlier post on this    was in error.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:04:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: DECnet over DSSI , Message-ID: <42CEEA2A.EE5D7BE8@teksavvy.com>   Jack Peacock wrote: N > The original poster may have DECnet confused with the MOP protocol to access& > DSSI drives from the console or VMS.   No! No ! No !   J Everyone knows that DSSI is just the Digital proprietary implementation of SCSI. P Everyone knows that VMS is now able to pass SCS traffic over SCSI between nodes.  M Therefore, it is perfectly logical to ask whether DECNET could be routed over  DSSI :-) :-) :-)  N Would it be philosophically possible to route DECNET over SCSI between 2 nodesM ? Is there a huge difference in transport level phisolophy between DECNET and  SCS ?      And the next question:  1 	Will DECNET-4 be updated on VAX to support USB ? N 	Will HP install support in its digital cameras and printers to support Decnet over USB ?  J 	Will HP pressure other manufacturers to support DECNET in their cameras ?  F 	(And the next step will be DECNET in mobile handsets via BluTooth :-)  # Sorry, it's friday afternoon... :-)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 23:38:39 +0200& From: "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> Subject: Re: DECnet over DSSI ; Message-ID: <ad483$42cef2b5$513b9a2c$4752@news.versatel.nl>   < "Didier Morandi" <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> schreef in bericht- news:42ced109$0$8174$626a14ce@news.free.fr...  > Bob Koehler wrote: > I > > In article <7d2ac$42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl>, "H Vlems"  <nospam@what.ever.com> writes: > > D > >>Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved- > >>loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen. 6 > >>The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus? > >>If so, with what driver? > >  > > I > >    IIRC you can use DECnet from the console of a VAX 3000 or later to I > >    connect to the DSSI controller in any data node (to set params and  such),L > >    but that's the limit.  No connecting directly form VMS, no connecting+ > >    to the controller on another system.  > # > What are we talking about here???  > B > The CI is a hardware link between to systems in a Cluster, which vehiculates any H > kind of protocols, among them fortunately DECnet to enable inter-nodesL > communication. Never heard of any specific CYDRIVER to load to have DECnet > working in a CI cluster...!  > H > DSSI stands for Digital Storage Systems Interconnect. To me DECnet has nothing 9 > to do with Storage Devices, or am I getting really old?  >  > D.  
 Gentlemen,  L way back DECnet was a protocol that ran over a multitude of carriers. DECnet phase IVL supported ethernet, serial lines (a.k.a. DDCMP) and the CI bus. In a typical
 CI clusterC with 11/750's or 11/780's one had the option to add a DEUNA or a CI  interface and run I DECnet over it. Instead of UNA-0 (circuit and line id for a DEUNA) the CI  node had9 a line (and circuit) called CXY-0 or something like that. J All standard DECnet functionality was available over that circuit. Now you may wonder whyI you'd use DECnet over the CI to copy files if there was a CI bus present,  but those 7x0's had local  storage as well.  H I understand the confusion with SET HOST/DUP. But that is  not DECnet at all.J The question was: there is (was) a driver that implemented DECnet over the CI bus, is there a DSSI counterpart?   G What amazes me is that the concept of "DECnet over CI" is forgotten....    Hans   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 02:09:17 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)  Subject: Re: DECnet over DSSI ( Message-ID: <danbkd$r3v$1@pcls4.std.com>  ( "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> writes:  J >Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved* >loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.3 >The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?  >If so, with what driver?   H I don't know how the CYDRIVER (CUDRIVER?) was implemented, but if it wasI implemented by talking to SCS, it might work over DSSI as is.  DSSI is to H software very much like a slow CI link, even though DSSI is electrically very similar to SCSI.   E If it doesn't try to second-guess SCS it wouldn't care what the port  K driver is. It would even work over ethernet (PEDRIVER) within a cluster if  & you like doing DECnet the hard way :-)  F I vaguely remember that DECnet over the CI was discouraged by Digital,D the driver was inefficient or unsupported or something, better to do) DECnet over ethernet if it was available.    -Mike    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 11:03:10 -0700  From: jordan@ccs4vms.com5 Subject: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment C Message-ID: <1120845790.733137.114720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   D Recalling a recent UPS discussion here... just had a new experience.  D I've got a VS3100-30 sitting on my desk at work; its my main supportB system for local and remote VMS customers so I don't have to use aE terminal emulator and crappy pc keyboard (which my boss would prefer, E but thats another issue).  It was purchased by the company in 1989-90 @ and has been off support since around 1998, but still runs fine.  E Our new building is having power issues; line voltage drops to 105 or F less in the afternoon, and its jittery; its gotten low enough a coupleG times to crash numerous systems, including the VAXstation.  Needless to G say there's no budget for a UPS for my old VAX so I brought a little HP ? 500VA unit that I use for network gear at home (for 2 years, no A problems).  It ran the external drives just fine, so last night I 5 recabled power to hook up the VAXstation and monitor.   G Within a couple of minutes of powering up, there was a detectable aroma D of hot electronics coming from the VAX _and_ the VR299 monitor.  The@ UPS was not overloaded.  After powering off I checked the outputE voltage on the UPS, and it was in line (about 110 at that point, same D as wall voltage).  On battery it measured 116V with a PC and monitor! (which had no problem) hooked up.   E Plugged the VAX and monitor back into the wall, no problem, no aroma. D So I took a spare 3100 power supply, hooked up a couple of SZ12 loadA resistors to it, and hooked it up to the UPS.  Unhappy hot smells ' again.  Back to line power, no problem.   F I've run an AS200 briefly on these UPS's with no issue, but it appearsE that either the significant seniority or the actual designs of my VAX E power supplies have made them very unforgiving of simulated sine wave A power with THD of 38.5% and max single harmonic of 24.9%, or with D whatever this UPS does to line power when its inline since the smell happens either way.   F I can't afford a SmartUPS right now, but thats apparently what it willE take to protect the VAX.  Cheapies won't cut it.  True sine power all @ the way; I'm a believer.  Be careful what you use for your olderG systems.  At least my equipment is still running so I guess I caught it   before too much damage was done.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 18:12:09 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)9 Subject: Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment + Message-ID: <3j7tvoFokvl3U1@individual.net>   C In article <1120845790.733137.114720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,  	jordan@ccs4vms.com writes: F > Recalling a recent UPS discussion here... just had a new experience. > F > I've got a VS3100-30 sitting on my desk at work; its my main supportD > system for local and remote VMS customers so I don't have to use aG > terminal emulator and crappy pc keyboard (which my boss would prefer, G > but thats another issue).  It was purchased by the company in 1989-90 B > and has been off support since around 1998, but still runs fine. > G > Our new building is having power issues; line voltage drops to 105 or H > less in the afternoon, and its jittery; its gotten low enough a coupleI > times to crash numerous systems, including the VAXstation.  Needless to I > say there's no budget for a UPS for my old VAX so I brought a little HP A > 500VA unit that I use for network gear at home (for 2 years, no C > problems).  It ran the external drives just fine, so last night I 7 > recabled power to hook up the VAXstation and monitor.  > I > Within a couple of minutes of powering up, there was a detectable aroma F > of hot electronics coming from the VAX _and_ the VR299 monitor.  TheB > UPS was not overloaded.  After powering off I checked the outputG > voltage on the UPS, and it was in line (about 110 at that point, same F > as wall voltage).  On battery it measured 116V with a PC and monitor# > (which had no problem) hooked up.  > G > Plugged the VAX and monitor back into the wall, no problem, no aroma. F > So I took a spare 3100 power supply, hooked up a couple of SZ12 loadC > resistors to it, and hooked it up to the UPS.  Unhappy hot smells ) > again.  Back to line power, no problem.  > H > I've run an AS200 briefly on these UPS's with no issue, but it appearsG > that either the significant seniority or the actual designs of my VAX G > power supplies have made them very unforgiving of simulated sine wave C > power with THD of 38.5% and max single harmonic of 24.9%, or with F > whatever this UPS does to line power when its inline since the smell > happens either way.  > H > I can't afford a SmartUPS right now, but thats apparently what it willG > take to protect the VAX.  Cheapies won't cut it.  True sine power all B > the way; I'm a believer.  Be careful what you use for your olderI > systems.  At least my equipment is still running so I guess I caught it " > before too much damage was done. >   C Have you tried it with just the VS3100 and not the monitor?  I have E always read that you don't plug monitors or laser printers into those B small UPSes because regardless of what the rating says, they won't
 handle it.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 12:57:03 -0700  From: jordan@ccs4vms.com9 Subject: Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment B Message-ID: <1120852623.815923.49010@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  B Nope.  But I did have both a pc and its monitor plugged in withoutG problems.  Of course the pc had a noname 17" crt that weighs about (and 5 is worth about) as much as the stand on the VR299 ;).   E In both cases the monitor was plugged into the switched outlet on the D back of the system box, not directly into the ups, and in the VS3100F case thats where the monitor is still  plugged in and working fine off wall power.   D The manual for this ups (and several others I have on hand) all warnA not to plug a laser printer in to a battery backed socket (though G several include line powered and filtered sockets for convenience), but & none contain a warning about monitors.  F I have an AS600 plugged into an APC BackUPS Pro1100 for over 18 monthsE without an issue, running pretty much 24x7 except when there's a long E enough power outage.  I do think the problem is either the age of the E VAX power supplies (electrolytic capacitors are not immortal) or that D they just aren't able to cope with crappy power output waveforms the way modern peecee supplies can.   E But since the VAXstation is always the last system to go down when we E get those lovely voltage dips and near brownouts, thats a trade-off I 2 can live with until I can scrape up a quality UPS.   Rich   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:39:26 -0700* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>9 Subject: Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment 2 Message-ID: <3qmdnfr5IMHieVPfRVn-rg@mpowercom.net>  & <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in message = news:1120845790.733137.114720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... I > Within a couple of minutes of powering up, there was a detectable aroma F > of hot electronics coming from the VAX _and_ the VR299 monitor.  TheB > UPS was not overloaded.  After powering off I checked the outputG > voltage on the UPS, and it was in line (about 110 at that point, same F > as wall voltage).  On battery it measured 116V with a PC and monitor# > (which had no problem) hooked up.  > M How are you measuring the voltage out of the UPS?  The catch here is how the  L output waveform is created...the difference between cheap and expensive UPS M units.  110-115V with some kind of modified DC square wave output is NOT the  F same as 110-115V AC sinusoidal wave output.  The RMS power levels are J substantially different (square wave watts/current are higher at the same J measured voltage with an AC voltmeter).  Most newer PC switching supplies H can handle it (for a while), but I wouldn't try it with older equipment.  I If you are familiar with an o-scope, look at the output of the UPS under  D moderate load (inductive load, like an incandescent light bulb, for ? starters).  If it isn't a nice sine wave, there's your problem.    Jack Peacock     ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 15:30:39 -0700  From: jordan@ccs4vms.com9 Subject: Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment C Message-ID: <1120861838.994519.295500@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Jack, F      wish I had a scope, but I don't.  I used an analog voltmeter on a? 200V scale and a "Kill-a-watt" plug in meter, which agreed with < eachother pretty closely, but you're correct about the power differences.  G This is an inexpensive UPS despite its HP branding; all it was intended B for was to keep a firewall, IDSL modem, and network switch runningB through power failures; trying it on the VAX was just a hope for aB convenient and low cost solution until the landlord gets the powerE fixed at work.  I know that its  a 'modified square wave' output, not D true sine wave, though the specs don't specify the level of stepping; used to approximate a sine wave; they only provide the THD.   D      I've read a number of articles that state that this pseudo-sineF wave output is actually completely acceptable to most modern switchingC power supplies, including most volt-on-a-rope adapters and the like B (don't have a reference now though).  Since they are normally onlyG exposed to the pseuda wave form during power outages, its not as bad as D full time units would be, but most of those are more expensive units# that provide true sine wave output.    ------------------------------   Date: 08 Jul 2005 18:21:31 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>D Subject: Re: IS the Hobbyist program active, I can't get any results7 Message-ID: <Xns968DCF923A6B8dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   E %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, JF Mezei wrote in news:42CE8EB3.A17B4AE6@teksavvy.com    > prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:F >> Once your mebership info gets passed and added, and that can take aE >> while, the licence issue and mail part has never taken more than a # >> few minutes that I can remember.  > E > Perhaps Mr Cathey can confirm this, but if I remember correctly, if G > you do not receive the emails, you can again ask for your PAks in the D > same way as before (and supply a different email address to see if9 > that is the problem) and your original PAKs get resent.  >   F Yes, you can resubmit the same request with different email addresses.  L I've done it when moronic spamtraps caught my licenses.  As someone pointed H out earlier, a subtle mod to the license page should point out that you D should get an email regardless, if you don't it is probably a local  problem.     Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 20:55:30 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)> Subject: Re: Network card problems? Or something like that....; Message-ID: <42cecc22.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   " Gremlin <not-here@all.mate> wrote:G > But on a slightly different topic, having patched everything in sight F > EXCEPT TCP/IP, what is the latest patch I can apply to 7.2-2 (having" > applied PCSI, LAN, UPDATE etc.)?G > -  DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0504-151-4.PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE  - mentions 7.2-2 J > -  DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0504-152-4.PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE  - mentions 7.3 and  > above J > -  DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0504-154-4.PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE  - mentions 7.3 and  > above J > -  DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0504-155-4.PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE  - mentions 7.3 and  > above  > I > I expect that it is the first because it is the only one that mentions  N > applying it to 7.2-2, although in the other .txt files, I can't see the VMS  > version prerequisite.   J Install "155" (ECO 5). This is independant of the VMS version. When you'veH got TCP/IP Services V5.4, you can install any of them. 155 is the latest and includes all earlier ones.   cu,    Martin --  @   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 15:39:47 +1000# From: "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate> > Subject: Re: Network card problems? Or something like that....- Message-ID: <42cf631e@duster.adelaide.on.net>   	 Hi Martin   ; Sadly, I only have 5.1-15 and no access to condist.....sigh     @ "Martin Vorlaender" <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote in message 5 news:42cecc22.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de... $ > Gremlin <not-here@all.mate> wrote:H >> But on a slightly different topic, having patched everything in sightG >> EXCEPT TCP/IP, what is the latest patch I can apply to 7.2-2 (having # >> applied PCSI, LAN, UPDATE etc.)? H >> -  DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0504-151-4.PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE  - mentions 7.2-2J >> -  DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0504-152-4.PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE  - mentions 7.3 and >> aboveJ >> -  DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0504-154-4.PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE  - mentions 7.3 and >> aboveJ >> -  DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0504-155-4.PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE  - mentions 7.3 and >> above >>I >> I expect that it is the first because it is the only one that mentions K >> applying it to 7.2-2, although in the other .txt files, I can't see the   >> VMS >> version prerequisite. > L > Install "155" (ECO 5). This is independant of the VMS version. When you'veJ > got TCP/IP Services V5.4, you can install any of them. 155 is the latest  > and includes all earlier ones. >  > cu, 	 >  Martin  > --  A >  OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules! 4 >   The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG >   God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ < >   earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------   Date: 08 Jul 2005 18:19:23 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks 7 Message-ID: <Xns968DCF35BEA13dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>     %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, WhoDat? wrote in; news:1120842057.671375.141440@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com    F > Google "jihad" and spend some time checking out a few links. Tell meH > you don't get gooseflesh on your back as you begin to understand a bit > more about these terrorists.  L Er, yes... They're not much different from any other bunch of lunatics with L an agenda and a "God".  They're just a little bit more brutal when it comes ( to the "destroy the unbelievers" clause.  E Honestly, try and look at this nonsense from the point of view of an  L unbeliever for a change.  We think that both the Radical Christians and the K Radical Muslims are a big problem.  Both sides believe the other should be  D converted or exterminated.  There's no room to tolerate anyone else.  F We just want you all to grow up and get rid of your imaginary friends.     Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:24:37 -0400# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> M Subject: RE: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks : Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDCECAGJAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----* > From: WhoDat? [mailto:whohe@whoever.com]% > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 1:01 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com G > Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada 	 > attacks  >  >  > Dan Allen wrote:  > > > -----Original Message-----  > > > From: Z [mailto:Z@no.spam]+ > > > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:50 PM  > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com K > > > Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada 
 > > > attacks  > > >  > > >  > > > JF Mezei wrote: K > > > > The best way to prevent terrorism is not to make yourself a target.  > > > N > > > The ONLY way to deal with a murderous group of psychopaths determined to% > > > kill you is to kill them first.  > > > H > > > Try as you may, this is not just about Iraq, AQ has been attacking' > > > western targets long before Iraq.  > > G > > But it is most definitly about western presence in the Middle East.  >  How aboutM > > containment and non-violent social and political change to starve out the L > > climate that breeds this type psychopathic rage. Too subtle for America? > > F > > > And cowering or appeasement are suicidal responses to terrorism. > > E > > As is blatant aggression against an already paranoid psychopathic  > community. AndB > > that's what Iraq looks like to the vast majority of the Arabic > world - not thatE > > they are all paranoid psychopaths - yet. Iraq has done absolutely  > nothing to aidE > > us in our pursuit of the murderous psychopath, OBL, that attacked  > us on 9/11. ItM > > almost certainly has added to rather than diminshed the ranks of paranoid # > > psychopaths in the Middle East.  > H > Here is a quote from Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad (don't know who he is? > try google): > C > "We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, H > innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And> > the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity." > ( > Here's just one little verse from the:
 > ======== > Qur'an: Suran 005.051  > F > YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians forE > your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to G > each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is 4 > of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.F > PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians forH > friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh themF > for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.H > SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians forH > friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takesI > them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not  > guide the unjust people. > ========== > F > Google "jihad" and spend some time checking out a few links. Tell meH > you don't get gooseflesh on your back as you begin to understand a bit > more about these terrorists. >   J And your point would be...? Omar Bakri is a jihadist and JIHADISTS are theO problem. The vast majority of the Muslim world is not jihadist. The question is K how to deal with the current problem without creating more jihadists and/or H generating sympathy for them amongst the more moderate mainstream MuslimM community. When a country of the "unjust" launches a full scale invasion of a P Moslem country with the stated intent of regime and social change they've gone aJ long way to proving that label accurate in the minds of many (and not justP Molsems). If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. Get	 the idea?    >    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 13:41:57 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks 3 Message-ID: <2nKc9OV2MYWo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <11ctbqlbptuag2e@corp.supernews.com>, "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> writes: > K > After all, we only deal with Arab countries for oil - I am sure with  the N > North Sea, Alaska, Canada and the US we have enough oil for a century or two4 > until solar and fuel cell technology take over....      Try telling that to Wyoming.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:24:08 -0700 ! From: Crabs <Crabs@ihatespam.com> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks / Message-ID: <DZSdnelkT4lET1PfRVn-qw@sunset.net>   - David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote: L > If one really thinks about this whole scenario you know what the answer is  > to this international problem. > L > Forced evacuation of ALL european, russian and american/canadian interests > in the middle east. L > Embargo the middle east - blocade their ports, blacklist their banks,  andH > not allow them to ship anything out and only import food and clothing. >  Dave:   E As a citizen of the world today, I too abhor the violence wrought by  E these misguided people. Every time a bomb goes off I get angry, then  D sad. Angry at those who perpetrate such atrocities, and sad for the - innocents who have to pay the ultimate price. G My gut reaction is to root out those who do such deeds and exterminate  G them all. Those who carry out these dastardly deeds, their supporters,   their friends and families. 	 Nuke 'em! 6 Turn their cities & farms into radioactive wastelands. Kill them all./ Yes. That will make the world a better place...  Suuuurrreeee...  ... I Then, rational thought takes over and I realize that creating a group of  F martyrs only perpetuates the violence. Shunning them more than likely H won't bring about the social change that is really necessary to end the I violence either. It would only give them more reason to hate the rest of  
 the world.D How about the US and the UK close their borders? Stop importing and % exporting. Allow no travel in or out.  Hmmm... ) Maybe that's not such a good idea either.  ... E Most people don't realize how fragile this thing called "Life" is on  G this planet. Nearly all "Life" has been exterminated on at least three  8 separate occasions as recorded by the geological record.I The only reason we don't all speak "dinosaur" is because of one of these   events. H A rock 40 miles across does not need to fall from the sky to change our H world. Something as simple as too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere  will do the trick nicely. F The weather is changing, average temperatures rising, certain fragile  species are becoming extinct. I Pollution has become a global problem. PCB's and Dioxins can be found in  H the people and animals that live in the Arctic, thousands of miles from  anything remotely industrial. 9 In most places today, untreated water is unsafe to drink.  Disease has mutated with us.H New strains of flu pop up occasionally in obscure corners of the globe. B In our modern world where you can have dinner in London, lunch in G Beijing, and dinner the following day in Sidney, we can circumnavigate   the globe in a matter of hours. 5 When was the last time you heard the word "Pandemic"?  ...  Telltale signs of change. = The next 50 or 100 years should prove to be very interesting.  ... D Terrorists are only a minor irritation in the face of global change.E If we are to survive we must all become one people, one nationality,  I citizens of a place called Earth. In order to insure species survival we  A must eventually have a viable population with sufficient genetic  F diversity living somewhere other than this fragile place called Earth.! Sadly, it's not likely to happen. B Most likely, we'll be thinking exactly the same thing as the last B Tyrannosaur who watched as the asteroid streaked across the sky... "Oh Shit..."   Waxing philosophically,    TomC   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 12:25:40 -0700 # From: "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks C Message-ID: <1120850740.859458.271780@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Doc. wrote: " > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, WhoDat? wrote in< > news:1120842057.671375.141440@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com > H > > Google "jihad" and spend some time checking out a few links. Tell meJ > > you don't get gooseflesh on your back as you begin to understand a bit  > > more about these terrorists. > M > Er, yes... They're not much different from any other bunch of lunatics with M > an agenda and a "God".  They're just a little bit more brutal when it comes * > to the "destroy the unbelievers" clause. >   $ And, what problem are we discussing?  F > Honestly, try and look at this nonsense from the point of view of an > unbeliever for a change.  E Everyone is a believer, even if one's belief is to reject the beliefs = of all faith-based religions. One must seek knowledge to gain + understanding, regardless of one's beliefs.   4 >  We think that both the Radical Christians and the$ > Radical Muslims are a big problem.    @ Certainly evil things have been done by Radical Christians. ManyD Muslims still consider the ancient Crusades as justification for the= Jihad. Dictators have risen to power by professing to be True F Christians. Localized acts of non-believer extermination have been and< are still being carried out by Christians and Muslims alike.  C But, currently it's the Radical Muslims who are committing the most - violent acts of terror on a world-wide scale.   ) >  Both sides believe the other should be F > converted or exterminated.  There's no room to tolerate anyone else. > H > We just want you all to grow up and get rid of your imaginary friends.  G And, we want world peace and happy lives, rich with joy and prosperity. A Now, how about if we all open our minds and try to understand the @ nature of this problem instead of just wishing it would go away?   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 12:52:32 -0700 # From: "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks C Message-ID: <1120852352.714696.131980@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Dan Allen wrote: >WhoDat? wrote:  > > J > > Here is a quote from Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad (don't know who he is? > > try google): > > E > > "We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, J > > innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And@ > > the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity." > > * > > Here's just one little verse from the: > > ======== > > Qur'an: Suran 005.051  > > H > > YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians forG > > your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to I > > each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is 6 > > of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.H > > PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians forJ > > friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh themH > > for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.J > > SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians forJ > > friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takesK > > them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not  > > guide the unjust people. > > ========== > > H > > Google "jihad" and spend some time checking out a few links. Tell meJ > > you don't get gooseflesh on your back as you begin to understand a bit  > > more about these terrorists. > >  > L > And your point would be...? Omar Bakri is a jihadist and JIHADISTS are theQ > problem. The vast majority of the Muslim world is not jihadist. The question is M > how to deal with the current problem without creating more jihadists and/or J > generating sympathy for them amongst the more moderate mainstream Muslim > community.  F The non-Muslim world can NOT solve this problem. The military invasionC of Iraq was ill advised at the least and outright stupid IMHO. But, E that die has been cast. The efforts in Afganistan were certainly more G justifiable. The withdrawal of troops from Iraq now would not solve the  problem.  E The war in Iraq has developed into a war between the different Muslim > factions and would continue until one side defeated the other.  E As long as there are infidels alive, the jihdists will continue their F war of terror. It was going on before Iraq and it will continue after.  B The solution to eliminating jihad terrorism is in the hands of theE non-jhadidist Muslim community. The "moderate" Muslims as you say. As F long as jihadists are tolerated in that community, and certain clericsG are allowed to preach jihad, there is nothing that the non-Muslim world  can do.   D These radicals do not repond to a live-and-let-live treatment. *ANY*F action taken by the non-Muslim world will be held as an example and beF an excuse for continued jihad. The jihad attack on 9/11 and the alliedE invasion of Iraq shows that the jihadist don't understand our mindset # any more than we understand thiers.   D > When a country of the "unjust" launches a full scale invasion of aR > Moslem country with the stated intent of regime and social change they've gone aL > long way to proving that label accurate in the minds of many (and not justN > Molsems). If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.  D You haven't done your homework, have you? An infidel doesn't need to( walk or quack to be considered a "duck".   > Get the idea?  >   
 Yes, I do.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 15:57:10 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks , Message-ID: <42CEDA7A.EBDFFE02@teksavvy.com>   WhoDat? wrote:E > But, currently it's the Radical Muslims who are committing the most / > violent acts of terror on a world-wide scale.   + I guess you have a different point of view.   M The USA/UK/Australia invaded Iraq unnecessarily and illegally and have killed < over 15,000 innocent Iraqis, as well as over 1700 americans.  N **Every day**, a bomb somewhere in Iraq kills as many people as were killed inK London. This is entirely the responsability of the USA who destabilised the J country big time with their illegal invasion, despite warnings from former1 allies such as France and the rest of the world.    M The sick ones who blew the bombs in London were not representative of people,  nor were they elected.     What do you think is worse:   N Some nutcase extremists part of a small group who end up killing 50 people andH stopping the London underground for a day, or some nutcase world leader,N acting with the support of his nation,  destroying a whole country and killingK tens of thousands of people and years later, the survivors still don't have  electricity or reliable water ?   L Despite the 9-11 catastrophy of biblical proportions, New York city was backJ up and running in very little time, albeit with a big scar in a relativelyK localised area. New Yorkers had basics of life such as clean running water, N and those oustide lower manhattan had electricity too.  The rest of the nation was untouched physically.   M Bush/Bliar/Howard destroyed an already fragile country that was no threath to J anyone, and years later, that country is still struggling to get basics ofJ survival like water for millions of people with bombs still killing dozens
 every day.  B I ask you, who performed the most hainous crime against humanity ?    J When you step on a hornet's nest, you have to expect to be bitten. The dayK Britons re-elected Bliar, they condoned his actions in Iraq and thus became [ fair game. Sorry to be blunt. But it must be said. It applies to americans and australians.   N If citizens are not only unwilling to punish their leader when he commits suchH hainous crime, but also re-elect him, then those citizens are to be held accountable/responsible too.    K (And yes, it is sad for the majority of Britons who did not vote for Bliar, M but in the end, the record shows that Bliar got a majority of power in the UK ' and is thus representative of Britons.)     L The governmnents of the middle east all condemned the despicable bombings inI London and disaster in New York. These governments did not participate in  those despicable acts.    N The governments of the USA, UK and Australian (and Spain at the time) not onlyJ condoned, but also performed the despicable bombings and killings in Iraq.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 13:16:56 -0700 # From: "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks B Message-ID: <1120853816.399909.65660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > WhoDat? wrote:G > > But, currently it's the Radical Muslims who are committing the most 1 > > violent acts of terror on a world-wide scale.  > - > I guess you have a different point of view.  >   E I spoke against the IRAQ invasion before it happened and as I said in @ another posting, IMHO it was stupid. But, the die has been cast.  E Aside from that, JF, let's just say we don't quite agree on politics, . but I do respect your knowledge of things VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:26:48 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks = Message-ID: <0MGdnU_Q7IY3YFPfRVn-jg@metrocastcablevision.com>    WhoDat? wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >>WhoDat? wrote: >>F >>>But, currently it's the Radical Muslims who are committing the most0 >>>violent acts of terror on a world-wide scale. >>- >>I guess you have a different point of view.  >> >  > G > I spoke against the IRAQ invasion before it happened and as I said in & > another posting, IMHO it was stupid.  C The problem is not that it was stupid:  the problem is that it was  J *wrong*, and that wrong keeps being exacerbated every day we remain there.   > But, the die has been cast.   I Indeed - and, as JF observed, the result has since even been ratified by  : the reelection of those leaders who so arrogantly cast it.  F So the consequences are not only quite predictable but quite arguably I appropriate - perhaps not from your point of view, but evidence suggests  H that throughout the world that viewpoint is a minority one.  After all, G when polled back in mid-2002 the vast majority of Canadians (well over  F 80%) felt that the U.S. was at least in part responsible for the 9/11 B attacks - and that was *before* our Iraq debacle became continual  front-page reading material.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:51:03 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks = Message-ID: <luGdnSJHhbzEnlLfRVn-vg@metrocastcablevision.com>    WhoDat? wrote:   ...   2 > The non-Muslim world can NOT solve this problem.  I How facilely you attempt to avoid responsibility simply by claiming that  G we couldn't affect things anyway.  But, of course, you're wrong - and,  J as the law makes clear, ignorance is no excuse (or in this case, defense).   ...   <   The withdrawal of troops from Iraq now would not solve the
 > problem.  I Regardless of the truth (or lack thereof) of that assertion, it's really  7 not your decision to make, you know:  it's the Iraqis'.    > G > The war in Iraq has developed into a war between the different Muslim @ > factions and would continue until one side defeated the other.  F Do you have a few decades of personal experience in Iraqi politics to F back that statement up with, or are you just blowing more Dubya-style  smoke out of your ass?   > G > As long as there are infidels alive, the jihdists will continue their H > war of terror. It was going on before Iraq and it will continue after.  E Gee, it's funny how we didn't notice it nearly so much a while back,  H isn't it?  It's not as if 'infidels' had just appeared spontaneously on = the face of the planet, like some previously-unknown species.   A Being blind to the correlation between our own meddling in their  I backyard and the response they make to that meddling really won't change  J the truth of the matter, but perhaps truth is not a high priority for you.   > D > The solution to eliminating jihad terrorism is in the hands of theD > non-jhadidist Muslim community. The "moderate" Muslims as you say.  H There is at least a grain of truth in that statement, but of course you 4 immediately follow up by misinterpreting that grain:     AsH > long as jihadists are tolerated in that community, and certain clericsI > are allowed to preach jihad, there is nothing that the non-Muslim world 	 > can do.   = Just why *do* you think that moderate Muslims tolerate (and,  L increasingly, support) jihad?  Something in their breakfast cereal, perhaps?  F It's because they see how we're treating them in their own countries, D don't like it, and increasingly agree that something should be done G about it.  And the jihadists are the only ones managing to do anything  A significant (since God knows endless rational entreaties haven't  ' succeeded over the past century or so).    > @ > These radicals do not repond to a live-and-let-live treatment.  E Once again, regardless of the truth or lack thereof of that specific  H statement with regard to the jihadists themselves, the non-radicals who > increasingly support and nourish their movement do respond to C live-and-let-live treatment.  Unfortunately, the treatment they're  C currently responding to (by increasing their support for jihad) is   anything but live-and-let-live.      *ANY* H > action taken by the non-Muslim world will be held as an example and beH > an excuse for continued jihad. The jihad attack on 9/11 and the alliedG > invasion of Iraq shows that the jihadist don't understand our mindset % > any more than we understand thiers.   F Au contraire:  while people like you clearly don't understand them at G all, they seem to understand us quite well.  The response we have made  I to the 9/11 attack (including the misbegotten invasion of Iraq) has done  H far, far more to support their cause than anything they could have done  by themselves.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 00:06:08 -0400- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks 5 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050708210621a4ff@mail.gmail.com>    >=20L > The USA/UK/Australia invaded Iraq unnecessarily and illegally and have ki= lled> > over 15,000 innocent Iraqis, as well as over 1700 americans. >=20L > **Every day**, a bomb somewhere in Iraq kills as many people as were kill= ed in L > London. This is entirely the responsability of the USA who destabilised t= heL > country big time with their illegal invasion, despite warnings from forme= r 2 > allies such as France and the rest of the world. >=20L > The sick ones who blew the bombs in London were not representative of peo= ple, > nor were they elected. >=20 >=20 > What do you think is worse:  >=20L > Some nutcase extremists part of a small group who end up killing 50 peopl= e and J > stopping the London underground for a day, or some nutcase world leader,L > acting with the support of his nation,  destroying a whole country and ki= lling L > tens of thousands of people and years later, the survivors still don't ha= ve! > electricity or reliable water ?  >=20  D It takes a remarkable amount of logical gymnastics to posit that the? liberation of 50 million souls from despotic regimes which were F brutally oppressive to women and ethnic minorities was the wrong thing to do.   WWWebb   --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 20:26:27 +0200& From: "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> Subject: Re: Upgrading VMS: Message-ID: <e8d6$42cec5ab$513b9a2c$7911@news.versatel.nl>  ; "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> schreef in bericht P news:OF2D01669F.D0936041-ON07257038.004D2332-07257038.004DB1E9@mck.us.ray.com... >  >  >  >  > G'day: > K > How do you make a decision to upgrade?  Is your decision ruled by Policy? I > By convenience (nothing else to do today)?  Or do you have an objective  > criteria that you apply? > L > Specifically, is 7.3 good enough (in some sense) or is 7.3-2 a better bet? > L > I suppose the same question could be applied to patches -- but then again,# > maybe you apply the same process.  >  > Thanks, dave.  >   L One reason to perform an upgrade that I haven't seen yet is standardization. If the site you workK for runs, say, 80 VMS systems then some standard is desirable. Between V4.x  and V7.3 severalH commands got changed, some more than others. SHOW NET delivers different output, SHOW LICENSEB under V5 is more verbose than in later versions and certain BACKUP! qualifiers got a different value. J Not to mention the enhancements Guy Peleg made to DCL. Once you're used to them and put them in= DCL command files they're certainly not backwards compatible. L So if one system needs a VMS upgrade, it follows that the others ought to go as well. That may be painfulJ but usually the cost of keeping a wild mix of VMS versions in a production environment and consequently7 the human errors that follow tend to be more expensive.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 13:21:43 -0700  From: jordan@ccs4vms.com Subject: Re: Upgrading VMSC Message-ID: <1120854103.742174.163660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D That is not a factor here.  We have a two-node cluster in house (oneC alpha, one VAX, currently at V7.3-2 and V7.3 respectively) that get C upgraded in sync (and will continue to be assuming we get that next C version of VMS for VAX).  All our customer sites have single nodes, C with little enough commonality in function and antique but reliable G enough management tools and procedures  that normalizing their versions E wouldn't buy us, or their owners, anything except the expense of time  and travel to do the upgrades.  C There's only two customer VAXen left; the Alpha folks are generally @ oversupplied with power and storage.  No SANs, no fiber channel,D nothing fancy or redundant (all small businesses without the need toC pay the price for all those niceties but still happy for all of VMS D reliability, expandability and other attributes) so even really nice. features like XFC aren't drivers for upgrades.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2005 13:39:00 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Vax emulator 3 Message-ID: <T+DImQ72YAyJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <42CE5767.16418.1D91A435@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:+ > On 8 Jul 2005 at 7:39, Bob Koehler wrote: I >>    So it relys on the original DEC power system?  That's the only part I >>    of our old VAXen we've had trouble with.  Replacing the CPU doesn't  >>    do us any good.  > F > There are companies making *new* Q-bus racks and power supplies, or F > there were a couple of years ago.  A client of mine researched that . > pretty throughly, and found several sources. > 
 > Scary, huh?   H    I've seen qbus used for 68K based UNIX workstations which had nothing,    to do with DEC except the bus they chose.  9    But all I really need is power supplies.  New is good.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.379 ************************