1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 09 Jul 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 380       Contents:. Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement?8 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 Re: DECnet over DSSI Re: DECnet over DSSI fibre-SCSI patch Re: fibre-SCSI patch Re: fibre-SCSI patch Re: fibre-SCSI patch$ Re: Fw: VMIC reflective memory crash0 Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment; Re: IS the Hobbyist program active, I can't get any results ; Re: IS the Hobbyist program active, I can't get any results  Re: MONO (.net for UNIX)5 Re: Network card problems? Or something like that.... D Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks- problems with latest shadowing patch on 7.3-2   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 13:24:36 -0400 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> 7 Subject: Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement? , Message-ID: <Y4SdnQLk-d42lU3fRVn-rg@rcn.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:] > In article <BEECB392.107D7%roktsci@comcast.net>, Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> writes:  >  > K >>I seem to remember that this was an issue once that Intel tried to combat L >>but failed. Instruction sets or processors cannot be copy written. That isL >>why AMD was able to make a processor that was Intel compatible. As long asI >>the electronics that implement the instructions are not copied, you can 5 >>build your own. But I would do more research first.  >  > D > It would seem Intel did not have a sufficiently unique instruction > set. > D > I believe DEC got a patent on the VAX instruction set feature thatD > after the first byte of the instruction was read one still did notB > know the total length of the instruction.  Of course that patent  > would have long since expired.  I Patents on oddball instruction set features are not that uncommon, though D the Alpha ISA is dated 1992, so anything in there would have patentsD expiring in 2009 at the latest...not THAT long...and many would have expired long before.  J The pdp11 had an ISA patent but as I recall it was on the MARK instructionJ which early pdp11 processor handbooks referred to as essential for the new pdp11 calling standard.   M Of course, this "calling standard" would only work on EIS machines; the 11/20 J did not have MARK, and there are probably only a handful of folks who everE tried to use it. (When I tried, I found to my disgust that the pal11r M assembler did not support it and it had to be hand entered as an octal symbol   or more properly a set of such.)  K At the low level where address space swizzling was used, there were so many H different Alpha variants that I would be surprised if even a significantJ number could be encumbered. If one emulated the EV6 instruction set (whichD can get away w/o swizzling), an emulator would not after all have toG emulate out of order execution, branch prediction, or lots of the other D techniques that exist in the silicon, and the pdp11 and vax heritageE in instruction set would make for lots of old art that would preclude 2 a patent that would be infringed by an emulator...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:00:06 -0400+ From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 @ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0507090945310.6491@frank.harvard.edu>  6 On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:  B > It is my pleasure to announce the June 2005 issue of the OpenVMS > Technical Journal.  G I just finished reading Clair Grant's article about porting OpenVMS to  K Integrity servers.  I found it fascinating.  Both VAX and Alpha processors  J provided architectural support for VMS (VAX in the instruction set, Alpha G in the PALcode), but Itanium does not.  This forced these functions to  K move up from the PALcode into the operating system.  The switch to the ELF  C binary format surprised me, as did the role that Linux and the GNU    compilers played in porting VMS.  E Anyway, I highly recommend this article to those of you who share my  8 interest in operating systems and computer architecture.   Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell Turn on, log in, tune out    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jul 2005 12:19:14 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 3 Message-ID: <VIeNNfO3YS8e@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0507090945310.6491@frank.harvard.edu>, Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> writes:8 > On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > C >> It is my pleasure to announce the June 2005 issue of the OpenVMS  >> Technical Journal.  > I > I just finished reading Clair Grant's article about porting OpenVMS to  M > Integrity servers.  I found it fascinating.  Both VAX and Alpha processors  L > provided architectural support for VMS (VAX in the instruction set, Alpha I > in the PALcode), but Itanium does not.  This forced these functions to  M > move up from the PALcode into the operating system.  The switch to the ELF  E > binary format surprised me, as did the role that Linux and the GNU  " > compilers played in porting VMS. > G > Anyway, I highly recommend this article to those of you who share my  : > interest in operating systems and computer architecture.  E ...and who have not been able to make it to the past two VMS Symposia < (Bootcamps) in New Hampshire where Clair had explained this.  + Certainly the non-print Journal is cheaper.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 12:36:08 +0200& From: "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> Subject: Re: DECnet over DSSI ; Message-ID: <360c7$42cfa8ee$513b9a2c$1271@news.versatel.nl>   F "Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> schreef in bericht" news:danbkd$r3v$1@pcls4.std.com...* > "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> writes: > L > >Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved, > >loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen.5 > >The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus?  > >If so, with what driver?  > J > I don't know how the CYDRIVER (CUDRIVER?) was implemented, but if it wasK > implemented by talking to SCS, it might work over DSSI as is.  DSSI is to J > software very much like a slow CI link, even though DSSI is electrically > very similar to SCSI.  > F > If it doesn't try to second-guess SCS it wouldn't care what the portL > driver is. It would even work over ethernet (PEDRIVER) within a cluster if( > you like doing DECnet the hard way :-) > H > I vaguely remember that DECnet over the CI was discouraged by Digital,F > the driver was inefficient or unsupported or something, better to do+ > DECnet over ethernet if it was available.  >  > -Mike  > I Correct, but for another reason IIRC. Remember that in those days DEC was  very careful aboutK performance. DECnet level 1 (or circuit) routing and level 2 (area) routing  were thought to haveE a serious performance impact. I remember running level 2 routing on a  microVAX II for anI area with 1021 pc's in it, all running Pathworks over DECnet without ever  seeing more thanJ 10% cpu load on the microVAX II (which had 9 MB memory and two RD54's :-).J So running DECnet over ethernet and the CI meant that the systems involved had to be configuredH as DECnet level 1 routers. Besides performance, the cost of the DVNETRTG license was an important issue too.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 12:29:16 +0200& From: "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> Subject: Re: DECnet over DSSI < Message-ID: <9582e$42cfa751$513b9a2c$32219@news.versatel.nl>  J "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> schreef in bericht- news:50hwIOMHoDHO@eisner.encompasserve.org... G > In article <7d2ac$42cec621$513b9a2c$8296@news.versatel.nl>, "H Vlems"  <nospam@what.ever.com> writes:D > > Years ago it was possible to run DECnet over the CI bus. IIRC it involved- > > loading the CYDRIVER to make that happen. 6 > > The question is: can DECnet run over the DSSI bus? > > If so, with what driver? > G >    IIRC you can use DECnet from the console of a VAX 3000 or later to G >    connect to the DSSI controller in any data node (to set params and  such),J >    but that's the limit.  No connecting directly form VMS, no connecting) >    to the controller on another system.  >   H Bob, that was not what I meant. Certain VAX systems (e.g. the 4000 model 100's) have sufficientI functionality built into the firmware to connect to DSSI devices. This is  also possible if VMS is K running. In fact, you need to load the same driver to talk to a DSSI device  as for the HSC50/70: viz. the FYDRIVER.G AFAIK there is no DECnet involved to make that work. But the similatity  between DSSI and CI,G the fact that both busses use FYDRIVER for a specific purpose led me to  think that the same might K work for CYDRIVER, which implemented full DECnet functionality over the CI.    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 06:22:34 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: fibre-SCSI patch $ Message-ID: <danqfa$9tt$2@online.de>  J What is up with the fibre-SCSI patches?  It seems that the last two for 7.B 3-2 were recalled after a relatively short time, and there is  no  current patch.  G It would also be nice if, when a patch is recalled, there is a note on  H the patch site saying why.  Some people might have installed it and are 1 probably wondering if they should undo it or not.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jul 2005 09:24:00 +0100 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: fibre-SCSI patch , Message-ID: <42cf97b0$1@news.langstoeger.at>  w In article <danqfa$9tt$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: K >What is up with the fibre-SCSI patches?  It seems that the last two for 7. C >3-2 were recalled after a relatively short time, and there is  no   >current patch.   H HP's Keith PARRIS in <B2wze.8169$Kj4.7356@news.cpqcorp.net> explained it here yesterday a little bit...  H >It would also be nice if, when a patch is recalled, there is a note on I >the patch site saying why.  Some people might have installed it and are  2 >probably wondering if they should undo it or not.  . I would send a message to George PAGLIARULO...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 05:01:25 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> Subject: Re: fibre-SCSI patch 0 Message-ID: <BEF50AA5.10BD2%roktsci@comcast.net>  ? On 7/8/05 11:22 PM, in article danqfa$9tt$2@online.de, "Phillip J Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote:  L > What is up with the fibre-SCSI patches?  It seems that the last two for 7.C > 3-2 were recalled after a relatively short time, and there is  no  > current patch. > H > It would also be nice if, when a patch is recalled, there is a note onI > the patch site saying why.  Some people might have installed it and are 3 > probably wondering if they should undo it or not.  > F In most cases patches released close together are not due to "oops, weF messed something up", but rather it addresses something else. Read theH release notes for each one, and you will see that they typically address quite different issues.    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 17:42:53 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: fibre-SCSI patch $ Message-ID: <dap2at$6ci$1@online.de>  = In article <BEF50AA5.10BD2%roktsci@comcast.net>, Jeff Cameron  <roktsci@comcast.net> writes:   A > On 7/8/05 11:22 PM, in article danqfa$9tt$2@online.de, "Phillip L > Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote: > N > > What is up with the fibre-SCSI patches?  It seems that the last two for 7.E > > 3-2 were recalled after a relatively short time, and there is  no  > > current patch. > > J > > It would also be nice if, when a patch is recalled, there is a note onK > > the patch site saying why.  Some people might have installed it and are 5 > > probably wondering if they should undo it or not.  > > H > In most cases patches released close together are not due to "oops, weH > messed something up", but rather it addresses something else. Read theJ > release notes for each one, and you will see that they typically address > quite different issues.   C Really?  In the case of the last two Fibre-SCSI patches, they were  G withdrawn with no replacement patch.  Also, since most patches address  G multiple problems, what would be the point of releasing two patches in  2 the same area (RMS, SHADOWING etc) close together?   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 13:15:30 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) - Subject: Re: Fw: VMIC reflective memory crash L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0907050915290001@user-uinj4cn.dialup.mindspring.com>  
 In articleK <OF066AFC4E.CFAA4ACD-ON07257036.006DB68A-07257036.006E5BFF@mck.us.ray.com>, - David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote:    >Good suggestion.  > H >Is "OpenVMS Alpha System Analysis Tools Manual" the best place to learnH >about crash dump analysis?  I'm hoping there is a tutorial out there toE >help me wade through all the possible commands and their variations.  >   C I don't know of any tutorials offhand.  Bruden and one or two other J companies offer courses in crash dump analysis.  The course books are very0 helpful, even if you can't take the live course.  H The only ways I know to get tht books are to take the course, or inherit0 them from someone else who has taken the course.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 08:34:45 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 9 Subject: Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment 4 Message-ID: <42cfc587$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote:  > Jack, H >      wish I had a scope, but I don't.  I used an analog voltmeter on aA > 200V scale and a "Kill-a-watt" plug in meter, which agreed with > > eachother pretty closely, but you're correct about the power > differences. > @ > This is an inexpensive UPS despite its HP branding; all it wasE > intended for was to keep a firewall, IDSL modem, and network switch F > running through power failures; trying it on the VAX was just a hopeD > for a convenient and low cost solution until the landlord gets theA > power fixed at work.  I know that its  a 'modified square wave' F > output, not true sine wave, though the specs don't specify the levelD > of stepping used to approximate a sine wave; they only provide the > THD. > F >      I've read a number of articles that state that this pseudo-sineH > wave output is actually completely acceptable to most modern switchingE > power supplies, including most volt-on-a-rope adapters and the like D > (don't have a reference now though).  Since they are normally onlyF > exposed to the pseuda wave form during power outages, its not as badC > as full time units would be, but most of those are more expensive + > units that provide true sine wave output.     H I've always found the engineers at APC very helpful when resolving powerF issues and getting answers to questions like yours from them should be fairly straightforward.         O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 08:42:30 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> D Subject: Re: IS the Hobbyist program active, I can't get any results4 Message-ID: <42cfc757$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   Steven M. Schweda wrote:% > From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  > F >> Perhaps adding a bit of discussion on the licence registration pageA >> about the way MSN (and some other) e-mail services and/or spam E >> filters can trash paks being sent to registrants and a reminder to D >> use an e-mail account which does not aggressively delete incomingF >> mail might help eliminate recurring concerns such as the OP raised. > A >    Perhaps it would be useful to send (perhaps as an option, or H > automatically after a duplicate request) a second e-mail message whichE > looks less like junk and informs the recipient that the license/PAK  > e-mail has been sent.     I Another way of handling this would be to send the PAK requestor an e-mail I containing a unique link to the pak database which can be opened in a web ; browser. This would almost certainly pass all spam filters.   L Clicking on the link displays the pak(s) specific to that user for that year in a browser window.  H eg. Click on www.montagar.com/vms/pak/yourname/209a#*!kka92  to get your license paks      O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 12:51:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> D Subject: Re: IS the Hobbyist program active, I can't get any results, Message-ID: <42D00093.F6D23E4D@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote: K > Another way of handling this would be to send the PAK requestor an e-mail K > containing a unique link to the pak database which can be opened in a web = > browser. This would almost certainly pass all spam filters.   H If some system considers DCL commands to be spam, then a VMS afficionado+ should not be using that system for emails.   N When you fill out the form, you get a html confirmation that an email is beingJ sent to you. it is fairly obvious. If you haven't received it within 10-15; minutes, you should worry about email problems at your end.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 12:41:52 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> ! Subject: Re: MONO (.net for UNIX) 1 Message-ID: <hqudnbQj_7DPY1LfRVn-1Q@adelphia.com>    danco@ns2.pebble.org wrote: I > Is anyone out there working on porting mono (.net for UNIX) to OpenVMS?   I I got as far as the configure script trying to run scripts from pkgtools  I which I have not found a a port to OpenVMS, or been able to find time to   do one.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 16:24:14 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)> Subject: Re: Network card problems? Or something like that....; Message-ID: <42cfde0e.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   " Gremlin <not-here@all.mate> wrote:9 > "Martin Vorlaender" <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote... % >> Gremlin <not-here@all.mate> wrote: I >>> But on a slightly different topic, having patched everything in sight H >>> EXCEPT TCP/IP, what is the latest patch I can apply to 7.2-2 (having$ >>> applied PCSI, LAN, UPDATE etc.)? ... J >>> I expect that it is the first because it is the only one that mentionsL >>> applying it to 7.2-2, although in the other .txt files, I can't see the  >>> VMS version prerequisite.  >>M >> Install "155" (ECO 5). This is independant of the VMS version. When you've K >> got TCP/IP Services V5.4, you can install any of them. 155 is the latest ! >> and includes all earlier ones.  > = > Sadly, I only have 5.1-15 and no access to condist.....sigh   8 There are ECOs for TCP/IP Services V5.1 as well (look atI ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/ ). Go for the highest number after # the "-V0501-" part of the filename.   H Or you could send me with a valid email address and we'll work out a way) to get you a V5.4 kit (via email or FTP).   K Or you could post your geographic location, and if there's someone near you H with a ConDist... Y'know, there are VMS installations in down under too.   cu,    Martin --  >                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules!1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de D  Microsoft wants        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jul 2005 12:49:41 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks + Message-ID: <3j9vf5FoudhnU1@individual.net>   5 In article <8660a3a1050708210621a4ff@mail.gmail.com>, 0 	William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes: >>  P >> The USA/UK/Australia invaded Iraq unnecessarily and illegally and have killed? >> over 15,000 innocent Iraqis, as well as over 1700 americans.  >>  Q >> **Every day**, a bomb somewhere in Iraq kills as many people as were killed in N >> London. This is entirely the responsability of the USA who destabilised theM >> country big time with their illegal invasion, despite warnings from former 3 >> allies such as France and the rest of the world.  >>  P >> The sick ones who blew the bombs in London were not representative of people, >> nor were they elected.  >>   >>   >> What do you think is worse: >>  Q >> Some nutcase extremists part of a small group who end up killing 50 people and K >> stopping the London underground for a day, or some nutcase world leader, Q >> acting with the support of his nation,  destroying a whole country and killing N >> tens of thousands of people and years later, the survivors still don't have" >> electricity or reliable water ? >>  F > It takes a remarkable amount of logical gymnastics to posit that theA > liberation of 50 million souls from despotic regimes which were H > brutally oppressive to women and ethnic minorities was the wrong thing > to do.  F You know, we took (and still take) a lot of flack over slavery becauseA we didn't apply the same rights to blacks (pre civil war) that we B applied to whites. After Lincoln, we expanded the coverage, but itA seems that today many people believe the statement "We hold these D Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that theyB are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, thatA among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." only C applies within the borders of the United States.  But then, I guess A that's one of the nice things about being a hypocrite, you get to < bend your beliefs until they suit your pre-determined model.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 06:21:12 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)6 Subject: problems with latest shadowing patch on 7.3-2$ Message-ID: <danqco$9tt$1@online.de>  B Has anyone had any problems which are (perhaps) due to the latest  shadowing patch on 7.3-2?    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.380 ************************