1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 10 Jul 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 381       Contents:+ Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there D Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks Re: Upgrading VMS  Re: Upgrading VMS   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 23:30:26 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 4 Subject: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there4 Message-ID: <42d09775$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>  & 1 Gorham = 411,000 systems running VMS  9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=05/07/07/2013899   ( HP Ramps Up OpenVMS on Integrity Servers ......  K "Blatz says that as far as HP can tell, there are somewhere from 350,000 to J 375,000 VAX and AlphaServer machines out there in the world still running,L and about 100,000 of them are VAXen. The vast majority of these machines areK running VMS and OpenVMS, the Unix-oid update of VMS. Most of these machines H are not running the former Digital Equipment Corp's Tru64 Unix platform,J which is good news since HP has put it into maintenance mode and also lastL year spiked the idea of weaving Tru64 Unix clustering support into its HP-UXH Unix platform. (This was one of the reasons that HP claimed to be buyingL Compaq, but it was just easier for HP to use and promote clustering software/ and file systems from Veritas, which it did.) "   H The numbers above may or may not include systems that are off support. IG somehow doubt that there are enough Hobbyist systems to account for the  difference.    --D OpenVMS -See what a lack of marketing and advertising can do to your installed base.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 17:43:25 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks 4 Message-ID: <42d04622$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>  - David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote: B > If one really thinks about this whole scenario you know what the* > answer is to this international problem. > B > Forced evacuation of ALL european, russian and american/canadian > interests in the middle east. G > Embargo the middle east - blocade their ports, blacklist their banks, B > and not allow them to ship anything out and only import food and > clothing.  > E > You know what that would do to the terrorists, and more importantly - > the financial backers of the terrorists?!?!  > G > Guns in the EU/Rest of the world,  are obtainable quite easily in the = > black market - I know as a Brit that I can go to some shady B > characters in Camden and get one tomorrow (of course I can go to; > Walmart down the street i Savannah GA and buy one today). E > BUT THEY ARE EXPENSIVE - the average Joe in the UK/EU cannot afford 9 > to pay big money for illegals guns, ammo, RPGs, C4 etc. E > These all cost money - if they can't get cash from Sympathisers (in < > Saudi, Yemen Iran Iraq Pakistan, etc. then they are stuck. > F > After all, we only deal with Arab countries for oil - I am sure withC > the North Sea, Alaska, Canada and the US we have enough oil for a C > century or two until solar and fuel cell technology take over....  >  > My 2 cents/pennies/eurocents    L Sure, and you may as well take down the Western world's economy for a decadeF or so while we're at it. I 'd expect that most 'Western' nations wouldL curtail their energy exports to the US if the suggestion you proped was everK proposed/enacted. The US is the most prolifigate consumer of energy.....for H what....? so soccer mom's can drive Hummers and every Tom, Dickhead, andI Harry can single-handedly consume more gasoline in an afternoon than most  countries do in a year?   I Everyone, or nearly so can undersatnd the military action in Afghanistan, K and this was widely supported by the international community. Unfortuantely J the US got it all wrong on Iraq because a bunch of BSD (big swinging dick)H Republicans were itching for a fight. The UN sanctions against Iraq wereK keeping Hussein contained and  has the US not actively sought to thwart the K UN at nearly every turn, the sanctions would have been even more effective.   K The $300 billion and counting that has been spent so far on Iraq could have H been put to far better use by having *given* money to each household andJ business in the US in the form of energy conservation grants - to be givenC upon proof on installation of new high efficiency furnaces/boilers, L insulation, and windows in each building, and by tax credits on the purchaseH of more fuel efficient vehicles, buy hey....that sounds a lot like KyotoJ doesn't it....can't have that can we? Most of that $300 billion would haveJ been used to purchase US manufactured goods and services, which would haveI boosted economic growth and stimulated employment. Then the US could have L told the Saudi's to "go pound sand up their *sses".  But that's probably not, in Bush....er....big oil's interests, is it?     >  > 0 > "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message6 > news:JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDEEBLGJAA.dallen@nist.gov... >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Z [mailto:Z@no.spam]) >>> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:50 PM  >>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com B >>> Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al >>> quiada attacks >>>  >>>  >>> JF Mezei wrote: H >>>> The best way to prevent terrorism is not to make yourself a target. >>> > >>> The ONLY way to deal with a murderous group of psychopaths1 >>> determined to kill you is to kill them first.  >>> F >>> Try as you may, this is not just about Iraq, AQ has been attacking% >>> western targets long before Iraq.  >>F >> But it is most definitly about western presence in the Middle East.G >> How about containment and non-violent social and political change to F >> starve out the climate that breeds this type psychopathic rage. Too >> subtle for America? >>D >>> And cowering or appeasement are suicidal responses to terrorism. >>D >> As is blatant aggression against an already paranoid psychopathicE >> community. And that's what Iraq looks like to the vast majority of G >> the Arabic world - not that they are all paranoid psychopaths - yet. C >> Iraq has done absolutely nothing to aid us in our pursuit of the A >> murderous psychopath, OBL, that attacked us on 9/11. It almost E >> certainly has added to rather than diminshed the ranks of paranoid " >> psychopaths in the Middle East.   --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jul 05 17:56:03 EDT ) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks ! Message-ID: <+xBcfw4VH7S9@wvnvms>   V In article <3j9vf5FoudhnU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:7 > In article <8660a3a1050708210621a4ff@mail.gmail.com>, 2 > 	William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes: >>> Q >>> The USA/UK/Australia invaded Iraq unnecessarily and illegally and have killed @ >>> over 15,000 innocent Iraqis, as well as over 1700 americans. >>> R >>> **Every day**, a bomb somewhere in Iraq kills as many people as were killed inO >>> London. This is entirely the responsability of the USA who destabilised the N >>> country big time with their illegal invasion, despite warnings from former4 >>> allies such as France and the rest of the world. >>> Q >>> The sick ones who blew the bombs in London were not representative of people,  >>> nor were they elected. >>>  >>>  >>> What do you think is worse:  >>> R >>> Some nutcase extremists part of a small group who end up killing 50 people andL >>> stopping the London underground for a day, or some nutcase world leader,R >>> acting with the support of his nation,  destroying a whole country and killingO >>> tens of thousands of people and years later, the survivors still don't have # >>> electricity or reliable water ?  >>> G >> It takes a remarkable amount of logical gymnastics to posit that the B >> liberation of 50 million souls from despotic regimes which wereI >> brutally oppressive to women and ethnic minorities was the wrong thing 	 >> to do.  > H > You know, we took (and still take) a lot of flack over slavery becauseC > we didn't apply the same rights to blacks (pre civil war) that we D > applied to whites. After Lincoln, we expanded the coverage, but itC > seems that today many people believe the statement "We hold these F > Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that theyD > are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, thatC > among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." only E > applies within the borders of the United States.  But then, I guess C > that's one of the nice things about being a hypocrite, you get to > > bend your beliefs until they suit your pre-determined model.  E I guess it shouldn't amaze me as much as it does, but there are still H a number of US citizens who think Lincoln was a despot of the same levelA as Stalin, et al.  They are still quite bitter that he forced the C South to remain part of the US, and that he freed their slaves.  At C the time Lincoln's war wasn't all that popular in the North either, C but I, for one, am very glad he did exactly what he believed needed D to done in spite of all the nay-sayers of the day.  It still remainsD to be seen whether Bush doing what he believes needs to be done willG have as good an outcome as Lincoln had (excepting of course for Lincoln 	 himself).      George Cook  WVNET    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:12:01 +1200 $ From: "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks 4 Message-ID: <NYXze.14483$U4.1681755@news.xtra.co.nz>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message. news:42d04622$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net...  K > Harry can single-handedly consume more gasoline in an afternoon than most  > countries do in a year?   K Tsk, tsk - typical greenie nonsense, isn't it? Let's assume that said Harry B spends all of his afternoon running a couple of SUVs at top speed.F How much that fuel would account to? A few dozen liters at most maybe?  ; Now show me the "most countries" that can go on that amount  of fuel in a year ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 19:39:43 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks = Message-ID: <TrqdnYURQILd_U3fRVn-qQ@metrocastcablevision.com>    George Cook wrote:   ...       It still remains F > to be seen whether Bush doing what he believes needs to be done will( > have as good an outcome as Lincoln had  G I wouldn't advise you to hold your breath waiting for such an outcome,  E given the pretty uniformly disastrous (not to mention embarrassingly  B unexpected - at least publicly - and of course blatantly illegal) @ developments so far with no obviously better prospects in sight.  "   (excepting of course for Lincoln > himself).   5 Now, that potential parallel seems a lot more likely.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 19:54:54 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spoamnot@teksavvy.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks , Message-ID: <42D063AE.BD04F258@teksavvy.com>  
 Lurker wrote: M > > Harry can single-handedly consume more gasoline in an afternoon than most  > > countries do in a year?  > M > Tsk, tsk - typical greenie nonsense, isn't it? Let's assume that said Harry D > spends all of his afternoon running a couple of SUVs at top speed.H > How much that fuel would account to? A few dozen liters at most maybe?    J http://millenniumindicators.un.org/unsd/mi/mi_series_results.asp?rowID=751  G On average, each american generates 20.1 metric tonnes of CO2 per year. L On average, your best buddies, the british generate 9.2 metric tonnes of CO2	 per year.   N Sweden, often regarded has having the best standard of living is at 5.6 tonnes	 per year.   I Australia, a terrier loyal to Bush who refuses to sign Kyoto went from 16 L tonnes per capita in 1990 to 19.2 in 2001. (Despite Australia not needing to heat homes in winter).    L Had the USA implemented Kyoto at the time it was signed, they would have hadI to reduce emissions by only 6%. Now, they have to reduce emissions by 15% J because the oil cartel/Bush Regime refused to put the United States into aN course where it is more energy efficient and the situation has gotten worse in
 recent years.   K When you drive your Hummer, it isn't just the fuel you purchase at the fuel J pump. It is also all the energy that went into building your tank, all theL energy to smelter the steel, aluminium and whatever. And in the USA, much of7 that energy is hydrocarbon based (coal or natural gas).   M And when you leave you military tank decorated with civilian comforts running L at the convenience store when you buy a 6 pack ( you woudln't want it to getN warmer inside with the air conditioner turned off for a few minutes, would you0 ?) you are sending more gas into the atmosphere.    L What americans can't seem to understand is that Bush is misleading them whenM he says that Kyoto would kill the USA economy. If you use less fuel, you save I money. If you use less fuel, you lower the demand for fuel and reduce the G strain on the price of oil and hence save money with lower fuel prices.   M Guess who benefits from high oil prices ? Bush, Cheney and friends who are in  the USA oil industry.     N Note that on a per capita basis, the US Virgin Islands are the worse offendersN in the world. The peaked at 130 tons per capita in 1994 and are now down to 91M tonnes, but if they are to abide by Kyoto, they need to go back down to their  1990 level of 81.   L However, small countries don't actually send out that much pollution becauseM their population is veru small. But compare this with Barbados at 4.6 and you M wonder why a US terrotory would be so vastly different than another island in 
 the vicinity.     K Now, China is at 2.7, up from 2.1 in 1990. When you multiply this by over a K billion people, the number of extra tonnes of CO2 emitted is staggering. If K China follow the USA lead starts to generate 20 tons of CO2 per inhabitant,  the world will suffocate.   L The USA lifestyle is NOT SUSTAINABLE.  If the USA doesn't adopt Kyoto, China2 will poing to the USA and also refuse to sign it.   L You want to impose your values and way of life to the rest of the world when* doing so will kill (litterally) americans.  L Remember that your government until this past week denied global warming wasL even an issue. Maybe when you start having hurricanes all year long you willI start to believe in the negative effects of global warming and how minute ; changes in sea temperatures have huges impacts on weather ?     H Reminds me of Acid Rain. Bush Jr's grandfather, Ronald Reagan refused toI believe in acid rain. Until, that is, some texas resort start to complain N about some mexican plant dumping sulfur into atmosphere and killing the fishes in the resort's lake.     M Problem is that by the time Americans start to die from China's emissions and J the US government decides it is a real problem, it will be way too late to save the world.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 20:38:22 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spoamnot@teksavvy.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks , Message-ID: <42D06DDC.81C54337@teksavvy.com>  I re: long term good for short term pain during north/south war in the USA.   K The same could be said of Hussein gassing the Kurds into submission so they N would be quiet, or Hittler gasing Jews because he felt they were disruptive of proper German culture/race.     I But the USA/UK invasion of Iraq has a major difference: Bush/Bliar/Howard M acted outside their own jurisdiction without any international mandate. It is N an agression against another country, another culture and an agression into anE area that already dislikes and fears the west and whose only possible & complaint mechanism is to blow bombs.   L Their own government do not take those complaints to the USA/UK because theyN fear that the USA will retaliate. So the people of the middle east really haveU no way to vent their frustration at the inept meddling of USA into their own affairs.   K The government of Egypt is a very good example. They receive huge subsidies M from the USA. But in exchange, they are expected to be moderate in the middle J east, and to do so, they have a very careful balancing act to make becauseK internally, a lot of Egyptians do not like to see their government being so M nice to the americans. But the egyptian govt isn't about to criticise the USA L or reduce US inflence because they stand to lose the valuable financial helpK they get. So if Egyptian citizens feel their government is representing USA K interests, they don't see their government as protecting Egyptian interests 8 and are therefore more likely to join terrorist groups.   K Now, Egypt has some of the more moderate people in the middle east. Imagine > how bad it gets in the more activist middle eastern countries.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:04:06 +1200 $ From: "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks 4 Message-ID: <6u_ze.14525$U4.1684642@news.xtra.co.nz>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spoamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message & news:42D063AE.BD04F258@teksavvy.com... > Lurker wrote: J > > > Harry can single-handedly consume more gasoline in an afternoon than most > > > countries do in a year?  > > I > > Tsk, tsk - typical greenie nonsense, isn't it? Let's assume that said  Harry F > > spends all of his afternoon running a couple of SUVs at top speed.J > > How much that fuel would account to? A few dozen liters at most maybe? >  > L > http://millenniumindicators.un.org/unsd/mi/mi_series_results.asp?rowID=751 > I > On average, each american generates 20.1 metric tonnes of CO2 per year. J > On average, your best buddies, the british generate 9.2 metric tonnes of CO2  > per year.   B Ask the plants in your garden, they sure like more CO2 in the air.  K > Australia, a terrier loyal to Bush who refuses to sign Kyoto went from 16 K > tonnes per capita in 1990 to 19.2 in 2001. (Despite Australia not needing  to > heat homes in winter).  ) It does need need to cool them in summer.   H > When you drive your Hummer, it isn't just the fuel you purchase at the fuelL > pump. It is also all the energy that went into building your tank, all the6 > energy to smelter the steel, aluminium and whatever.  A Isn't it also true about so-called clean green sources of energy? ; Consider what goes into producing your average solar panel,  it's anything but eco-friendly.   I > What americans can't seem to understand is that Bush is misleading them  when0 > he says that Kyoto would kill the USA economy.  B He is right about that. Here in New Zealand (which has signed thatA protocol) we have plants closing down right now 'cause they can't ' cope with additional compliance burden.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:18:03 +1200 $ From: "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks 4 Message-ID: <bH_ze.14528$U4.1684465@news.xtra.co.nz>  8 "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com> wrote in message news:...= > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spoamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message ( > news:42D063AE.BD04F258@teksavvy.com...  K > > What americans can't seem to understand is that Bush is misleading them 7 > > when he says that Kyoto would kill the USA economy.  > D > He is right about that. Here in New Zealand (which has signed thatC > protocol) we have plants closing down right now 'cause they can't ) > cope with additional compliance burden.  >   . Sorry to follow-up on my own post but I forgot0 to mention that some of those plants are getting. closed to move to the countries that did *not*4 sign that protocol (including USA out of all places)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 21:31:28 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks = Message-ID: <FoSdnTToh5Ts503fRVn-tg@metrocastcablevision.com>   
 Lurker wrote: = > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spoamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message ( > news:42D063AE.BD04F258@teksavvy.com...   ...   I >>On average, each american generates 20.1 metric tonnes of CO2 per year. J >>On average, your best buddies, the british generate 9.2 metric tonnes of >  > CO2  >  >>per year.  >  > D > Ask the plants in your garden, they sure like more CO2 in the air.  G I guess that might be of some comfort to plant-chauvinists who eagerly  H await the demise of those dreadful plant-eating animals, but I wouldn't H expect it to be all that popular in general among humans.  And for that F matter global climate change will kill a hell of a lot of gardens and H other growing regions - and those places which then become newly-suited I to plant growth will take quite a while to develop the overall ecosystem  F that will allow such growth to flourish at anything like a level that  would replenish what was lost.   ...   H >>When you drive your Hummer, it isn't just the fuel you purchase at the >  > fuel > L >>pump. It is also all the energy that went into building your tank, all the6 >>energy to smelter the steel, aluminium and whatever. >  > C > Isn't it also true about so-called clean green sources of energy?   E Of course not:  energy expended to produce things like solar panels,  4 wind turbines, hydro-electric generators, and other G renewable-energy-based power-producers results in a major net *saving*  I in fossil fuel use over the life of the product, whereas energy expended  B to produce things like SUVs enables yet more squandering of those % limited non-renewable energy sources.   F Most of the rest of the world has taken a noticeably more responsible F attitude toward automotive energy efficiency for many decades, taxing B gasoline (and unnecessarily gas-guzzling vehicles) at a rate that C encourages use of more energy-efficient products and/or collective  I transportation (car pools, mass transit, etc.) where it's feasible to do  H so.  For a while, after the 'gas crises' of the '70s (which pale beside H what we're going to be in for fairly soon), we seemed to be headed in a A similarly more responsible direction, but Ronnie Ray-Gun and his  ) ideological successors took care of that.   = > Consider what goes into producing your average solar panel, ! > it's anything but eco-friendly.  >  > I >>What americans can't seem to understand is that Bush is misleading them  >  > when > 0 >>he says that Kyoto would kill the USA economy. >  > D > He is right about that. Here in New Zealand (which has signed thatC > protocol) we have plants closing down right now 'cause they can't ) > cope with additional compliance burden.   ? I guess you just don't have much in the way of entrepreneurial  I initiative down there, then:  the kinds of technological challenges that  E reducing greenhouse emissions raises fall into the increasingly rare  G category of areas in which the U.S. retains an ability to compete very  A successfully with the rest of the world - so not only would such  C development satisfy our own market, but we could export it as well.   E Perhaps you're just too busy pissing and moaning about the very real  C need for change to recognize the opportunities that change creates.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 18:39:08 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks + Message-ID: <%__ze.17988$x82.8599@fe03.lga>    JF Mezei wrote: N > The USA lifestyle is NOT SUSTAINABLE.  If the USA doesn't adopt Kyoto, China4 > will poing to the USA and also refuse to sign it.   F Kyoto was far too restrictive and flawed from the outset by excluding 9 major polluters. Thank goodness it will never be adopted.   I A more sane option, and one that doesn't give China and India and Brazil   free passes, has a chance.  F Kyoto is dead. Go cry somewhere else - this has no relation at all to  VMS - about the sky falling.    J > Reminds me of Acid Rain. Bush Jr's grandfather, Ronald Reagan refused toK > believe in acid rain. Until, that is, some texas resort start to complain P > about some mexican plant dumping sulfur into atmosphere and killing the fishes > in the resort's lake.   ) Do you make this crap up as you go along?   F How many times do you think you can "revise history" w/o being caught?  D Reagan openly acknowledged acid rain in environmental meetings with E Mulroney as early as 1981 but he refused to kowtow to Chicken Little  > envirokooks and stab the US economy in the neck as a response.  H A few years later, we hammered out the Acid-Rain Accord and implemented F moderate, sensible measures, which, by the way, have worked just fine.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 14:06:02 +1200 $ From: "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks 4 Message-ID: <9o%ze.14533$U4.1685435@news.xtra.co.nz>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 7 news:FoSdnTToh5Ts503fRVn-tg@metrocastcablevision.com...  > Lurker wrote: E > > Isn't it also true about so-called clean green sources of energy?  >  > Of course not   0 Of course yes. Think about it: Solar panels work1 by catching sunlight right? So that sunlight does 0 not reach the eco-systems below the panels. Now,* what do you think happens to an eco-system deprived of sunlight?   - Now, calculate the area which will need to be ) covered with those panels to support even + a moderate-sized town (not to mention heavy " industry like aluminium smelters).  + Are you still happy with starving all those  eco-systems out of sunlight?  8 >:  energy expended to produce things like solar panels,5 > wind turbines, hydro-electric generators, and other H > renewable-energy-based power-producers results in a major net *saving*1 > in fossil fuel use over the life of the product   : Really? If it was so the power companies would be fightingA over the rights for that. Heard any recent noise about that even?   ? > > Consider what goes into producing your average solar panel, # > > it's anything but eco-friendly.   * You did not answer that one. I wonder why?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 14:44:39 +1200 $ From: "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks 4 Message-ID: <nY%ze.14538$U4.1685940@news.xtra.co.nz>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 7 news:FoSdnTToh5Ts503fRVn-tg@metrocastcablevision.com...  > Lurker wrote: F > > He is right about that. Here in New Zealand (which has signed thatE > > protocol) we have plants closing down right now 'cause they can't + > > cope with additional compliance burden.  > @ > I guess you just don't have much in the way of entrepreneurial > initiative down there, then:  > We do - that's exactly why the businesses are moving offshore.C Even to US with higher labour costs and freight costs and logistics F it's still cheaper than complying with that nonsense. I'm not directly? involved btw - just see it happening every day and well, if you + think Kyoto won't affect you - think again.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:10:24 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks 6 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050709211033569f1@mail.gmail.com>   >=20H > You know, we took (and still take) a lot of flack over slavery becauseC > we didn't apply the same rights to blacks (pre civil war) that we D > applied to whites. After Lincoln, we expanded the coverage, but itC > seems that today many people believe the statement "We hold these F > Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that theyD > are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, thatC > among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." only E > applies within the borders of the United States.  But then, I guess C > that's one of the nice things about being a hypocrite, you get to > > bend your beliefs until they suit your pre-determined model. >=20 > bill >=20  E One of many things which are misunderstood for the sake of conformity  to preconceived opinions.   : The complaint that the Constitution only counted slaves asA three-fifths of a person was a compromise reached for the sake of B determining representation-- it wasn't those old evil slave statesF that wanted things this way; they wanted slaves counted fully.  And itA was the free states that didn't want slaves counted at all, as it & diluted their representative strength.  D How many people do you think would be surprised to find that slaveryF was abolished in Massachusetts because of a series of court cases, the@ first of which was initiated by a slave named Walker against his owner?  F The end result was that the Chief Justice of the Massachusetts Supreme? Court held that the state constitution granted rights that were D incompatible with slavery.  (Walker cases: Quock Walker v. Jennison;0 Jennison v. Caldwell;  Commonwealth v. Jennison)   Enough history for tonight.    WWWebb --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jul 2005 15:21:37 -0700 & From: "Mister Q" <pquodling@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Upgrading VMSC Message-ID: <1120947697.263001.173970@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    David D Miller wrote:  > G'day: > K > How do you make a decision to upgrade?  Is your decision ruled by Policy? I > By convenience (nothing else to do today)?  Or do you have an objective  > criteria that you apply?  E I make a point of keeping as current as possible. Having worked in OS D Engineering, I understand the testing that things go through and theE bugs that they are there to fix. I have also put in place, "back out"  strategies for any upgrade...   D (That's said, most of what I work with is at 7.3-2 - I don't have anB itanium handy - all offers graciously received -so haven't seen anA immediate need to do that (more because of layered and 3P product  delays.)  D I am often amused by the Sun Bigots who bag VMS about being old, yetF are still running Solaris 7, because they are too scared to upgrade...   q    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 20:28:58 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spoamnot@teksavvy.com> Subject: Re: Upgrading VMS, Message-ID: <42D06BA8.B01699F3@teksavvy.com>  K One reason to keep up to date with VMS is to reduce the costs and trauma if  you do need to upgrade.   N Consider a shop that decided to stay at 5.5-2.  New VP comes in and decides toK start adding applications to the VMS infrastructure again. But the app they K want requires 7.2. The upgrade from 5.5-2 to 7.2 is multi-step (including a I step at 6.0 where backup used for VMSINSTALL on VAX fails due to a bug in W BACKUP, and requires major checking of existing apps because there are so many changes.   N Those who incrementally upgrade to keep recent tend to minimise the trauma forN each upgrade and have more time to assimilate and plan all the changes because" each step involves fewer changes.s   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.381 ************************