1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 12 Jul 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 385       Contents:0 Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET0 Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET. Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement? Re: DECnet over DSSIO Re: Finding OpenVMS Programming Examples in HP's Natural Language Search Engine 0 Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment0 Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment9 Re: interchangeability of memory between various machines / Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there / Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there / Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there / Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there / Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there / Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there / Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there / Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there  Re: MONO (.net for UNIX)! MSCP Server on Multi-Site Cluster % Re: MSCP Server on Multi-Site Cluster 2 Re: Need DCPS Software for hobbyist (BHM, AL Area)3 Re: NetBackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP4 release now available D Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksD Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacksP Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks attacks attI Qlogic ISP12160 Ultra160, QLA12160/66 dual ultra wide SCSI PCI controller M Re: Qlogic ISP12160 Ultra160, QLA12160/66 dual ultra wide SCSI PCI controller M Re: Qlogic ISP12160 Ultra160, QLA12160/66 dual ultra wide SCSI PCI controller M Re: Qlogic ISP12160 Ultra160, QLA12160/66 dual ultra wide SCSI PCI controller ? Re: SDL (was: Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET) * Re: Top Intel architect flees coop for AMD* Re: Top Intel architect flees coop for AMD Re: Upgrading VMS  Re: Upgrading VMS   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:31:28 GMT & From: hoffman@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)9 Subject: Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET 1 Message-ID: <kOzAe.8269$zM7.761@news.cpqcorp.net>   u In article <da9jq1$5d5$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:   M :If I'm shipping a product that has a macro symbol definitions file, should I  :(at VMSINSTAL time) :  :a) Stick it in STARLET.MLB  :b) Stick it in LIB.MLB  :c) Ship my own macro library 
 :d) a n other   G   C or D.  STARLET.MLB, STARLET.REQ, STARLETSD.TLB, SYS$STARLET_C.TLB,  I   LIB.MLB and SYS$LIB_C.TLB are provided by OpenVMS, and not particularly H   intended or suited for modifications by third-party software.  (AFAIK,I   we don't document third-party modification of these libraries, either.)   H   OpenVMS strives to maintain our own content in these files without theG   wildcard of third-party stuff lurking, and once in a while we get our H   own definitions wrong within these files.  These errors can then cause(   the upgrade or the ECO to crater, too.  H   Do use your own library or libraries, and -- if this is a product thatE   will be used at other sites -- your own registered facility prefix.   G   If you insert a module into one of the system libraries, you may well E   collide with an OpenVMS module, or an OpenVMS module added sometime G   after yours may well clobber your change(s).  (Facility prefixes help F   avoid this with images and symbols, but there are few or no prefixesH   used on the module names used inside the system libraries.  Again, theG   symbols have the facility names, but quite obviously the module names F   do not.  And I just added a new module to LIB a couple of hours ago,   FWIW.)  I   If you insert your own shareable images into the IMAGELIB.OLB shareable I   image library, you will want to use the facility prefix on all external I   symbols and on the shareable image name, too.  (Recent versions of PCSI L   have updates in this area that help maintain the currency of the shareableJ   image in IMAGELIB.OLB, as it is easy for an ECO to neglect to specify an   IMAGELIB.OLB replacement.)  I   SDL and (as applicable) GNM are the usual mechanisms for generating the H   OpenVMS definitions, too.  Also see the LIBEXT tool, too.  These toolsJ   are all available on the current Freeware.  There is also the integratedH   (though undocumented) SDL/NOPARSE command, if you want to ship an .SDI&   intermediate-format definition file.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:49:41 GMT & From: hoffman@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)9 Subject: Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET 1 Message-ID: <p3AAe.8273$zM7.148@news.cpqcorp.net>   u In article <daal13$s4i$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes: 6 :But I think I'll stick it in LIB anyway. Why? Well :- : E :1) Rightly or wrongly, I've always saw Starlet as the home of the SS - :definitions and LIB as the symbol-def place.   E   The traditional definition is STARLET for the public and the static J   interfaces, and LIB for the undocumented and/or the volatile interfaces.E   Software built against STARLET doesn't usually need to be rebuilt,  F   while stuff built against LIB might require rebuilding, recoding, or/   potentially even a complete reimplementation.   K :2) There's already a $TT3DEF macro in Starlet (terminal stuff I'd imagine)   
   Correct.  , :so a $T3DEF there as well may be confusing?  G   You don't own the T3$ facility, based on a quick check of the current G   list.  (If you want to register a facility prefix, the email address     is in the FAQ.)   I   Y'all are welcome to use the Macro assembler or the Macro compiler, C,  H   Fortran or whatever language meets your particular local requirements.  I   (Me?  I tend to use SDL to generate a pile of language-specific files,  I   and let the end-customer choose the implementation language.  That way, G   I only have to maintain one source file -- or I use GNM, and maintain F   one file for the definitions and for the error messages and recovery   documentation.)   G   Bit-based bit-flag operations are comparatively expensive in terms of H   performance on newer systems, though you know all about that if you'reI   working in assembler -- faster systems trade off increased memory usage G   and an increasing preference for natural data alignment for increased I   execution speed.  This tends to prefer aligned longwords, for instance. H   (Alignment is a performance benefit even on some VAX systems, but pays   off on newer boxes.)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 13:06:41 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 7 Subject: Re: alpha instruction set - free to implement? 3 Message-ID: <Lt1zB7ZY5NUR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <bsn8ZfOzofqq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: X > In article <Y4SdnQLk-d42lU3fRVn-rg@rcn.net>, Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> writes: > M >> The pdp11 had an ISA patent but as I recall it was on the MARK instruction M >> which early pdp11 processor handbooks referred to as essential for the new  >> pdp11 calling standard. > H >    I'd like to get a copy of that calling standard.  MARK was the only> >    user-mode PDP-11 instruction not included in the 11/780'sJ >    compatability mode instruction set.  So I pulled out my PDP-11 manualJ >    and found that MARK worked on both my 11/34 and my 11/44, but I couldA >    never figure out a calling standard that made it of any use.   ? Based on the name, look for a calling standard used in a Pascal  implementation.    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 18:12:03 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)  Subject: Re: DECnet over DSSI ( Message-ID: <daucpj$ncn$1@pcls4.std.com>  = koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   ] >In article <42CEEA2A.EE5D7BE8@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >> No! No ! No !   >>  M >> Everyone knows that DSSI is just the Digital proprietary implementation of 	 >> SCSI.  S >> Everyone knows that VMS is now able to pass SCS traffic over SCSI between nodes.   / >   Guess again.  Only the cables are the same.   E Not even the cables are the same.  As another poster pointed out, the F messages passed are nothing like SCSI packets.  They are SCS just likeF you'd see on a CI.  Each DSSI drive is a node just like an HSJ on a CI/ is a node.  (Neither is a full cluster member).    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:52:09 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)X Subject: Re: Finding OpenVMS Programming Examples in HP's Natural Language Search Engine; Message-ID: <42d2b1c9.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   1 Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote: 3 > Here are my updated Programming Examples links...   G Thanks a lot, Keith. These examples were very useful to me on more than 7 one occasion in the past. Good to see they're not lost.    cu,    Martin --  ;    OpenVMS @ 25      | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules! .                      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA    Still exceeding   |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 5    expectations      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------   Date: 11 JUL 2005 13:05:15 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)9 Subject: Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment 6 Message-ID: <11JUL05.13051531@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  3 In a previous article, jordan_at_ccs4vms.com wrote:   H ->I can't afford a SmartUPS right now, but thats apparently what it willG ->take to protect the VAX.  Cheapies won't cut it.  True sine power all B ->the way; I'm a believer.  Be careful what you use for your olderI ->systems.  At least my equipment is still running so I guess I caught it " ->before too much damage was done.  H Those VS3100 supplies are probably presenting a load with a power factor? (delay between voltage and current waveforms) that causes major @ distortion of the cheapie's output and heat. Nearly all PC powerH supplies have been "power factor corrected" for quite some time (I thinkB European countries mandated this) so cheap UPS's can get away withF assuming the load has a power factor of almost one (pure resistive) asE opposed to your VS3100 which is more of a non-linear (reactive) load. G The power factor can be corrected for by adding capacitance in parallel ? or inductance in series with the load. Goggle for "power factor C correction".  That would probably cost more than replacing the ups.   G The older Best "ferrups" UPS's are perfect for this and can be found on F Ebay occasionally. Any older UPS would probably work since they had toE deal with non-linear loads before the days of PFC supplies. The power @ factor issue is why UPS's are rated in volt-amps (VA) instead ofG watts. The further the load's power factor from one, the larger the UPS D you need. w = PF x VA. If you don't know the PF assume it's 0.65 for0 sizing the UPS (then add some headroom to that).   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 6 --               karcher.nomorespan@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 22:24:02 -0500 ( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>9 Subject: Re: Inexpensive UPS gotchas with older equipment 2 Message-ID: <BumdnXKmK6Lpt07fRVn-hw@speakeasy.net>   Carl Karcher wrote: 5 > In a previous article, jordan_at_ccs4vms.com wrote:  > J > ->I can't afford a SmartUPS right now, but thats apparently what it willI > ->take to protect the VAX.  Cheapies won't cut it.  True sine power all D > ->the way; I'm a believer.  Be careful what you use for your olderK > ->systems.  At least my equipment is still running so I guess I caught it $ > ->before too much damage was done. > J > Those VS3100 supplies are probably presenting a load with a power factorA > (delay between voltage and current waveforms) that causes major B > distortion of the cheapie's output and heat. Nearly all PC powerJ > supplies have been "power factor corrected" for quite some time (I thinkD > European countries mandated this) so cheap UPS's can get away withH > assuming the load has a power factor of almost one (pure resistive) asG > opposed to your VS3100 which is more of a non-linear (reactive) load. I > The power factor can be corrected for by adding capacitance in parallel A > or inductance in series with the load. Goggle for "power factor E > correction".  That would probably cost more than replacing the ups.  > I > The older Best "ferrups" UPS's are perfect for this and can be found on H > Ebay occasionally. Any older UPS would probably work since they had toG > deal with non-linear loads before the days of PFC supplies. The power B > factor issue is why UPS's are rated in volt-amps (VA) instead ofI > watts. The further the load's power factor from one, the larger the UPS F > you need. w = PF x VA. If you don't know the PF assume it's 0.65 for2 > sizing the UPS (then add some headroom to that). >  > --I > -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 8 > --               karcher.nomorespan@waisman.wisc.edu    & Thanks for the info!  I appreciate it.  E I've had pretty bad luck buying used UPS's through ebay (or from any  F other source for that matter), and not because of batteries which you L can expect to replace.  It'll have to wait until I can afford a better unit.   Rich   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:52:28 +0000 (UTC) - From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) B Subject: Re: interchangeability of memory between various machines. Message-ID: <dauils$ho5$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes in article <dareit$jh4$1@online.de> dated Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:24:14 +0000 (UTC): >ALPHAserver  2100       (EV45)   I The 2100 takes memory *boards* which AFAIK don't fit anything else.  They E have the same form-factor as the 2100 CPU boards except not as tall.  L The 2100 has 3 CPU slots, 2 memory slots, and a combo area which can be used3 either for a 4th CPU or 2 additional memory boards.    >ALPHAserver  2000       (EV4)  J The 2000 takes boards which hold standard SIMMs or DIMMs, I forget which. G In large multiples -- you have to fill a "bank" with identical modules.    >ALPHAserver  1200       (EV56)   $ PC100 DIMMS, in multiples of 4 or 8.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 13:48:37 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 8 Subject: Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there3 Message-ID: <bGwq7c14DS+0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3jfphiFp8pj4U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>  , >>    Universities are not representative.   > G > May not be representrative of your world, but they make up a a goodly D > number of the existing systems.  Probably also account for a large, > percentage of the hobbyist computer users.  C    I think the whole world consists of Universities, and government ;    sites, and commercial sites, and hobbyist sites, and ...   :    So just picking yours or just picking mine would not be    representative.   > K > Ummmm.....  I thought DECStations were MIPS.  How do you run VMS on them?   H    Yep, had some MIPS based DECstations and DECsystems, only ran ULTRIX.G    I think there's a ...BSD for some of them now.  Used to have PDP-10  F    based DECSYSTEMS (with PDP-11 front ends), I don't think anyone didA    a UNIX port, although somebody did try to market a C compiler.   K    Since then I've been using some Alpha based DECsystems and DECstations,  L    like DEC 3000 Model 300 and Model 600.  That naming was used for several 0    of the EV4 systems.  They run VMS quite well.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:10:03 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)8 Subject: Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there$ Message-ID: <daug6a$rcg$2@online.de>  3 In article <bGwq7c14DS+0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   M >    Since then I've been using some Alpha based DECsystems and DECstations,  N >    like DEC 3000 Model 300 and Model 600.  That naming was used for several 2 >    of the EV4 systems.  They run VMS quite well.  E There was the 3000 300L, 300X, 400, 500, 600, 700 and 900 (at least;  F maybe there were more).  I have a DEC 3000/600 and a DEC 3000/300LX.  I The latter is quite slow; I believe there were some faster VAXes (though  F perhaps not single-processor VAXes, though the faster VAXstation 4000 I machines are comparable in speed and get by on a lot less memory (at the  F time they were new, though, that VAX memory would have cost much more " than the ALPHA memory, probably).)  G The 3000/600 is a really nice machine.  It has two SCSI buses and has a F really stable metal case.  I got the 3000/300LX as a spare machine; itC has a really small footprint, probably the smallest ALPHA ever made B (excluding the ALPHAbook and, possibly, the DS10L etc).  As thingsC turned out, just a couple of months after I got it, my ALPHAstation I 255/233 died on me (search ther archives for "255/233" and "capacitor");  H apparently my problem was worse than most since even after removing the E capacitor the machine still doesn't boot---a shame since this is the  H only machine I bought new, but at least it ran continuously for 7 years.  I I swapped the 300LX in (just had to reconfigure TCPIP since the ethernet  E controller has a different name).  It has just 48 MB, but is happily  E running VMS 7.3-2 (official supported minimum is 64 MB; I don't know  G since when that has been the case---when I bought the 255 in 1997, DEC  H was selling it with 32 (I bought 64), so I assume that the minimum then , was at most 32 (it might have been even 16).   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 14:56:39 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 8 Subject: Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there3 Message-ID: <44bJdqcweR7a@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <daug6a$rcg$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 5 > In article <bGwq7c14DS+0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > N >>    Since then I've been using some Alpha based DECsystems and DECstations, O >>    like DEC 3000 Model 300 and Model 600.  That naming was used for several  3 >>    of the EV4 systems.  They run VMS quite well.  > G > There was the 3000 300L, 300X, 400, 500, 600, 700 and 900 (at least;  H > maybe there were more).  I have a DEC 3000/600 and a DEC 3000/300LX.    H But I believe they were all DEC 3000, DEC 4000, etc, not DECsystem 3000.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 16:15:28 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 8 Subject: Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there3 Message-ID: <xg2pD6kvMICf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <daug6a$rcg$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  > K > I swapped the 300LX in (just had to reconfigure TCPIP since the ethernet  G > controller has a different name).  It has just 48 MB, but is happily  G > running VMS 7.3-2 (official supported minimum is 64 MB; I don't know  I > since when that has been the case---when I bought the 255 in 1997, DEC  J > was selling it with 32 (I bought 64), so I assume that the minimum then . > was at most 32 (it might have been even 16).  G    The very first release of VMS for Alpha which we were able to obtain I    (1.5, prior to the Alpha - VAX numbering merge for VMS) specfied 64MB.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 16:16:12 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 8 Subject: Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there3 Message-ID: <BxjmuI4xB+Hz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <44bJdqcweR7a@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: y > In article <daug6a$rcg$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 6 >> In article <bGwq7c14DS+0@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   >>  O >>>    Since then I've been using some Alpha based DECsystems and DECstations,  P >>>    like DEC 3000 Model 300 and Model 600.  That naming was used for several 4 >>>    of the EV4 systems.  They run VMS quite well. >>  H >> There was the 3000 300L, 300X, 400, 500, 600, 700 and 900 (at least; I >> maybe there were more).  I have a DEC 3000/600 and a DEC 3000/300LX.    > J > But I believe they were all DEC 3000, DEC 4000, etc, not DECsystem 3000.  C    Front panel says "DEC", catalog said DECsystem/DECstation, IIRC.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 16:16:56 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 8 Subject: Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there3 Message-ID: <p+hcV8e5BkK+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <44bJdqcweR7a@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: y > In article <daug6a$rcg$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 6 >> In article <bGwq7c14DS+0@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   >>  O >>>    Since then I've been using some Alpha based DECsystems and DECstations,  P >>>    like DEC 3000 Model 300 and Model 600.  That naming was used for several 4 >>>    of the EV4 systems.  They run VMS quite well. >>  H >> There was the 3000 300L, 300X, 400, 500, 600, 700 and 900 (at least; I >> maybe there were more).  I have a DEC 3000/600 and a DEC 3000/300LX.    > J > But I believe they were all DEC 3000, DEC 4000, etc, not DECsystem 3000.  E    There were also Intel PC's from DEC known as DECsystems.  It's the "    one moniker DEC liked to reuse.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 22:58:54 GMT ' From: Steve Thompson <smt@vgersoft.com> 8 Subject: Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out thereC Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0507111855460.10716@honker.vgersoft.com>   ' On Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Bob Koehler wrote:   y > In article <daug6a$rcg$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:  > > L > > I swapped the 300LX in (just had to reconfigure TCPIP since the ethernetH > > controller has a different name).  It has just 48 MB, but is happilyH > > running VMS 7.3-2 (official supported minimum is 64 MB; I don't knowJ > > since when that has been the case---when I bought the 255 in 1997, DECK > > was selling it with 32 (I bought 64), so I assume that the minimum then 0 > > was at most 32 (it might have been even 16). > I >    The very first release of VMS for Alpha which we were able to obtain K >    (1.5, prior to the Alpha - VAX numbering merge for VMS) specfied 64MB.   E When AXP/VMS 1.5 shipped with the 3000/400 in late 1992 the specified H minimum was 32 MB. Indeed we bought a bunch of them configured just thatJ way (one of these is still running in my basement). They were very quicklyG upgraded to 64MB when we found out what performance was like with 32MB, . but, nonetheless, the base line item had 32MB.   Steve    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:09:51 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 8 Subject: Re: Less than 1 Gorham of VMS systems out there( Message-ID: <opstrxepmfzgicya@hyrrokkin>  , On 11 Jul 2005 16:16:12 -0500, Bob Koehler  0 <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:  7 > In article <44bJdqcweR7a@eisner.encompasserve.org>,   1 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: I >> In article <daug6a$rcg$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de   5 >> (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: 7 >>> In article <bGwq7c14DS+0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, A >>> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  >>> D >>>>    Since then I've been using some Alpha based DECsystems and   >>>> DECstations, J >>>>    like DEC 3000 Model 300 and Model 600.  That naming was used for   >>>> several5 >>>>    of the EV4 systems.  They run VMS quite well.  >>> H >>> There was the 3000 300L, 300X, 400, 500, 600, 700 and 900 (at least;H >>> maybe there were more).  I have a DEC 3000/600 and a DEC 3000/300LX. >>K >> But I believe they were all DEC 3000, DEC 4000, etc, not DECsystem 3000.  > E >    Front panel says "DEC", catalog said DECsystem/DECstation, IIRC.  > I DECstation was Mips, DACsystem was Alpha.  But there was a DECSystem 5000 8 (or was it 6000) which was a mips server running Ultrix.   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2005 21:46:12 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com ! Subject: Re: MONO (.net for UNIX) , Message-ID: <daupb402ncf@enews3.newsguy.com>   danco@ns2.pebble.org wrote: I > Is anyone out there working on porting mono (.net for UNIX) to OpenVMS?    > - Dan   G I'd sure like to see a working port of Mono for OpenVMS.  I find myself L needing to learn C#, and would like to use it on VMS.  Having tried to buildE it on IRIX, I suspect that it would take significant effort to get it  working on VMS.   H A better solution to trying to get Mono working might be "Portable.NET". http://dotgnu.org    		Zane   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 21:41:22 -0700 (PDT) 2 From: "James J. O'Shea" <seamas_ose@ameritech.net>* Subject: MSCP Server on Multi-Site Cluster@ Message-ID: <20050712044122.69510.qmail@web81110.mail.yahoo.com>  6 We have a three-node, v6.2 VMS,  VAX 7000-* CI cluster2 running locally.  We are trying to add a remote(305 miles away) VAX 7000, v6.2 VMS to it.  The remote VAX 6 has booted successfully and has become a member of the3 local cluster.  But, not all  disks are  being MSCP  served.   2 All nodes have the following SYSGEN parameter set:   MSCP_SERVE_ALL = 1
 MSCP_LOAD = 1  NISCS_LOAD_PEA0 = 1  VAXCLUSTER = 1  4 For some strange reason only disks on the remote VAX5 with allocation devices of $1$ are being served. None ( are being served from the local cluster.  6 Am I missing something basic or was there a bug in VMS v6.2 with MSCP SERVER?   Thanks, 
 Jim O'Shea   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 01:03:45 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot|@teksavvy.com>. Subject: Re: MSCP Server on Multi-Site Cluster, Message-ID: <42D34F1B.352EECB8@teksavvy.com>   "James J. O'Shea" wrote:6 > For some strange reason only disks on the remote VAX7 > with allocation devices of $1$ are being served. None * > are being served from the local cluster.    E Do each VMS system in the cluster have a different allocation class ?   N If I understand your message properly, the remote VAX serves some of its disks
 but not all ? O (eg: from the main site, you see some of the remote VAX's drives, but not all ?   M Can you describe the disks that are being served and those that are not being 	 served ?    V Just as an example, on my Vaxstation 3100, the diskette drive doesn't get MSCP served.  I The MSCP software knows it is a diskette drive and just doesn't serve it. H Perhaps you have special class of disk drives that look like drives MSCP doesn't want to serve ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:32:03 -0500 ? From: "Christopher Story" <ke6rwj@spam-eater-remove-me-msn.com> ; Subject: Re: Need DCPS Software for hobbyist (BHM, AL Area) , Message-ID: <X9EAe.39779$B_3.28327@fe05.lga>   Stuart, C     yes, But it would be nice to have a local contact, just in case    If you dont mind...    Chris   , "ssj152" <noone@nospam.net> wrote in message% news:_%lAe.18752$Si3.8420@fe06.lga... L > "Christopher Story" <ke6rwj@spam-eater-remove-me-msn.com> wrote in message( > news:1Nvze.31882$B_3.13322@fe05.lga...- > >> You need to specify if for Alpha or VAX.  > > 	 > > Alpha  > >  > >  >  > Christopher, > I > Have you located the software yet? If not, what version are you looking  for?L > I am pretty sure that I have it from the 7.3 distribution for both VAX and > ALPHA. >  > I live in the BHM, AL area.  > J > Reply on list and if you need what I have, we can get together off list. >  > ssj152 (stuart)  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:48:36 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> < Subject: Re: NetBackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP4 release now available0 Message-ID: <n4mdnWs_-MqpdE_fRVn-jw@comcast.com>   Alan Fay wrote:   ) >The NetBackup OpenVMS 5.0 MP4 GA Release  >  > D >The downloadable 5.0 MP4 (Maintenance Pack Four) upgrade release isD >now available for both VAX and Alpha. This release supports 5.0 MP3B >and 5.1 MP3 master and media servers. Please see the full releaseC >notes in the NetBackup User's Guide for OpenVMS which is available  >from VERITAS support:-  > C >ftp://ftp.emea.veritas.com/pub/support/Products/NetBackup_OpenVMS/  >    nbu_v5_0_vms_pdf.zip  >  > 	 >Alan Fay  >VERITAS Software  >Roseville Engineering >  >  >  >    > I Does the Netbackup client still exit with "success" when it dies?  (Tech  I support thought it was a "feature" the last time I asked.   I disagree!!)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:40:06 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks = Message-ID: <ncWdnUjZSseqek_fRVn-gQ@metrocastcablevision.com>    WhoDat? wrote:   ...   . > The Qur'an supports jihad. Do your homework.  A You appear to be every bit as much a moron and/or bigot as those  G Christian fundies who selectively quote those parts of the Bible which  H they'd like to believe support their world-view and blithely ignore the A rest.  And to put icing on the cake, you clearly (just from your  I statements which I didn't find worth quoting above, let alone elsewhere)  - can't follow (or present) coherent positions.    'Bye.    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 15:56:05 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks C Message-ID: <1121122565.461998.197550@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:L > In article <1121015153.138110.283490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF"=!  <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > > K > > Yeah, that's easy for you to say living in Canada! It's a little hotter  > > down here in the States!!! > >  > 9 >    Yeah, right.  It never gets above 50=B0 F in Canada.   G OK, somttimes it gets hot in Montreal. I bet not as often, though. I'll C have to look up some climatalogical data. Later. Still, I'd find it G hard to believe that there is not less need for A/C in Montreal than in , most of the States (weighted by population).   >  >    Maybe on your planet. > J >    You might actually try traveling north of the Mason-Dixon line before >    posting such nonsense.   G I live north of that line and it gets quite hot in the summer at times. G Also, sitting in a car in the sun in traffic can make it much hotter in  the interior of the car.  B A/C in a car is also important for safety: Defogging. Many, if notD most, or all, automatic climate control systems in cars activate theD A/C if the temp is above about 40 deg. F. (yes, Fahrenheit) or so toE help dehumidify the air that is sent to the windshield when defogging < is specified by the driver. This greatly improves defogging.  G There are better ways to save energy. This one causes sacrifice. Here's E one that actually not only causes sacrifice, but improves our quality E of life: Better lighting at night. Most outdoor fixtures are horribly C inefficient not due to inefficient bulbs but to poorly designed and G poorly installed fixtures. Many lights send 40% or more of their output F up into the sky! Lights aimed at flags often waste 99% of their light!F By switching to full cutoff fixtures (and spotlights for flags) we canB save energy AND: reduce glare, improve visibility, improve safety,  reduce ugly clutter, save money.  D So I'd start with that before making driving more miserable and less safe.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:36:11 +0200 3 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks = Message-ID: <42d2f45c$0$78283$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>   < "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spoamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message & news:42D063AE.BD04F258@teksavvy.com... > Lurker wrote: J >> > Harry can single-handedly consume more gasoline in an afternoon than 	 >> > most  >> > countries do in a year? >>I >> Tsk, tsk - typical greenie nonsense, isn't it? Let's assume that said   >> HarryE >> spends all of his afternoon running a couple of SUVs at top speed. I >> How much that fuel would account to? A few dozen liters at most maybe?  >  > L > http://millenniumindicators.un.org/unsd/mi/mi_series_results.asp?rowID=751 >  Clip ...  K > Australia, a terrier loyal to Bush who refuses to sign Kyoto went from 16 L > tonnes per capita in 1990 to 19.2 in 2001. (Despite Australia not needing  > to > heat homes in winter). >   L That is rather like saying that it is unnecessary to heat homes in the USA. L You have been to Australia JF.  You know as well as I that some parts of it J get cold in winter, certainly cold enough to require heating. Only in the M north does one build homes for tropical climates.  The further south you go,  K the colder it gets in winter.  Just because the Aussies do not get Calgary  = like -45C temperatures does not mean no heating is necessary.   . Just another of your really stupid statements.   Clip ...  
 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:44:34 +0200 3 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks = Message-ID: <42d2f653$0$78282$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>   < "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spoamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message & news:42D151ED.3DD354DC@teksavvy.com...< > Re: Solar panels covering vegetation on a planetary scale. clip ..   I > Consider this: the Internatinal Energy Agency had released a paper not   > longG > ago about emergency measures that could be taken to reduce WORLD oil   > demandL > should the need arise. The first recommendation is an immediate reduction  > ofL > the maximum speed in USA highways to 55 mph, which would reduce US demand  > for  > foreign oil by 3% right away.  >   M Has anybody actually bothered to find out what the optimal speed for minimum  K fuel consumption is for modern vehicles.  I have a sneaking suspicion that  M it may be somewhat higher than 55 mph. but have not investigated.  The 55mph  K was a 70s value, and might have been accurate then.  I doubt that it still   is.    clip ...  
 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:51:29 +0200 3 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks = Message-ID: <42d2f7f2$0$78282$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>   < "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spoamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message & news:42D1536C.4143DE72@teksavvy.com... clip ...  J > Consider the amount of water currently stored on top of Greenland. It isL > starting to melt. That my friend has the potential to inflict on new york  > far L > more damage than the 9-11 terrorists. (Add Boston to the list too, and all > other coastal cities)  >  >    No its not.   E Please find a reference for that.  While there have been a couple of  K noticible incidents of coastal areas shedding some ice, pictorial evidence  K for a few centuries seems to indicate that this just happens occasionally.  ? The "inland ice" volume continues to rise as far as I am aware.   H I might be wrong, but that is what I recall reading somewhere here, and J Greenland is pretty close to here - oh wait a second - we *own* Greenland.  M Now, a big chunk of ice looks like falling off Antarctica, but that is about  ' as far from Greenland as you can get !!    clip ...  
 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Jul 2005 00:08:12 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks + Message-ID: <3jgfvcFppo7cU1@individual.net>   = In article <42d2f45c$0$78283$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, 6 	"Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> writes: > > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spoamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message ( > news:42D063AE.BD04F258@teksavvy.com... >> Lurker wrote:K >>> > Harry can single-handedly consume more gasoline in an afternoon than  
 >>> > most >>> > countries do in a year?  >>> J >>> Tsk, tsk - typical greenie nonsense, isn't it? Let's assume that said 	 >>> Harry F >>> spends all of his afternoon running a couple of SUVs at top speed.J >>> How much that fuel would account to? A few dozen liters at most maybe? >> >>M >> http://millenniumindicators.un.org/unsd/mi/mi_series_results.asp?rowID=751  >>
 > Clip ... > L >> Australia, a terrier loyal to Bush who refuses to sign Kyoto went from 16M >> tonnes per capita in 1990 to 19.2 in 2001. (Despite Australia not needing   >> to  >> heat homes in winter).  >> > N > That is rather like saying that it is unnecessary to heat homes in the USA. N > You have been to Australia JF.  You know as well as I that some parts of it L > get cold in winter, certainly cold enough to require heating. Only in the O > north does one build homes for tropical climates.  The further south you go,  M > the colder it gets in winter.  Just because the Aussies do not get Calgary  ? > like -45C temperatures does not mean no heating is necessary.  > 0 > Just another of your really stupid statements. >   A It also fails to take into account the fact that within the range B suitable for human survival, how warm or cold is a relative thing.B I have spent time in Georgia the last two Decembers.  I ran around? in Tee-shirts and kept the top on my MG down except for a dy or A two when it rained. I was quite comfortable.  The local residents B were wearing parkas, hats and gloves.  I can assure you, houses in% the southern US have heaters in them.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 18:57:09 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks B Message-ID: <1121133429.394226.14760@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Dr. Dweeb wrote:= > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spoamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message ( > news:42D151ED.3DD354DC@teksavvy.com...> > > Re: Solar panels covering vegetation on a planetary scale.	 > clip ..  > J > > Consider this: the Internatinal Energy Agency had released a paper not > > longH > > ago about emergency measures that could be taken to reduce WORLD oil
 > > demandM > > should the need arise. The first recommendation is an immediate reduction  > > ofM > > the maximum speed in USA highways to 55 mph, which would reduce US demand  > > for ! > > foreign oil by 3% right away.   N > Has anybody actually bothered to find out what the optimal speed for minimumL > fuel consumption is for modern vehicles.  I have a sneaking suspicion thatN > it may be somewhat higher than 55 mph. but have not investigated.  The 55mphL > was a 70s value, and might have been accurate then.  I doubt that it still > is.   G 55mph was likely *never* the optimal speed. It was a compromise between D the real optimal speed (prob. between 30 and 40 mph) and what peopleE wanted to drive at. Remember: the first energy conservation speed was G 50 mph but Congress didn't want to give Nixon anything he asked for, so ) it was upped to 55 mph (or so I've read).   A While I often disagree with JF, and his record on physics in this E newsgroup is not great, to say the least (but he's quoting a study in F this case), I have to call 'em as I see 'em. And as much as I hate theE 55 mph speed limit, the physics of the matter favors lower speeds for G higher mileage. The amount of work you have to do to get from A to B is C equal to the average force times the distance travelled. So given a G fixed distance, the amount of work the engine has to do to push the car D is proportional to the average force. And at highway speeds the mainE force is drag due to air resistance which varies approx. as the speed F (v). IIRC, it varies more like v**2 at higher speeds. So the drag on aC car going at 70mph is greater than at 55mph, period. Therefore, the B work expended by the engine is greater, period. That's a matter of physics, not technology.  E (I actually confirmed this by experiment in the early 80's. If you do G try this experiment, you must be very careful that you measure what you B think you're measuring and that all factors are taken into accountD (head winds and tail winds are an obvious possible complication, for: one -- accurately measuring the gas consumed is another).)  B The best mileage is probably at the lowest speed you can go in the2 highest gear available without lugging the engine.  A Higher revs with the same load (same speed, hence same drag) only E create more heat (by burning more gas, and that extra power has to go E somewhere!), which is wasted energy, which of course reduces mileage. , So a higher gear at a given speed is better.  A There are various factors: gear ratio, engine speed, drag, engine E efficiency (at burning gasoline). But the physics of the situation is D against you at higher speeds as far as mileage goes. Whatever you toF technology-wise to make things more efficient at the higher speed, the6 same thing will help you even more at the lower speed.  = Sorry, but that's the way it is. Hey, I'm just the messenger!   > The question then is: what speed should we drive at to balanceC competing interests: better times and less driving agony on the one D hand, vs. better mileage on the other. That's where opinion comes inG and mine is against limiting speeds to 55 mph because I've been through D that and I hated it. Others may disagree. But the physics is what it is.   F I'd guess that the most efficient speed is somewhere between 30 and 40F mph. I am not familiar enough with overdrive cars to say what it wouldB be for them. So for this I ask: What's the typical lowest speed atF which you can go into overdrive without lugging the engine? Can anyone supply that?  F I'm sure there are people who will say "But MY car/truck/whatever getsD better mileage at 70 than at 55 mph." I don't believe it. If that isG the case for someone's car, then there's something very wrong with that G car at lower speeds! The efficiency of the engine may increase a little B with revs, but that's not enough to overcome the increase in drag.  C Then there's the old question: Which is better for mileage: windows E open or air conditioning? This was done on Mythbusters but they did a E lousy experiment. They compared windows open with A/C cranked way up. G Unless there's something wrong with your A/C, you're not going to drive ; with it cranked up while driving at a steady highway speed. G Furthermore, due to safety concerns, they were allowed to drive only 45 D mph on the track. Moreover, I don't trust their gasoline measurementC methodology. Still further, it applies only to their test vehicles.   E Anyway, at zero mph, windows open gets better mileage. (Of course you B don't get any cooling, and you're not getting anywhere, but at lowB speeds, windows open wins.) As speed increases, the drag from openE windows increases, but then the efficiency of the A/C also increases. C So there is probably a crossover point such that driving above some E speed for a given car gives better mileage with A/C running than with D windows open. What that speed may typically be I will not venture to guess.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 19:00:02 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks C Message-ID: <1121133602.524874.279780@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 CORRECTION!!!   
 AEF wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote:L > > In article <1121015153.138110.283490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AE=# F" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > > > L > > > Yeah, that's easy for you to say living in Canada! It's a little hott= er  > > > down here in the States!!! > > >  > > ; > >    Yeah, right.  It never gets above 50=B0 F in Canada.  > I > OK, somttimes it gets hot in Montreal. I bet not as often, though. I'll E > have to look up some climatalogical data. Later. Still, I'd find it I > hard to believe that there is not less need for A/C in Montreal than in . > most of the States (weighted by population). >  > >  > >    Maybe on your planet. > > L > >    You might actually try traveling north of the Mason-Dixon line before > >    posting such nonsense.  > I > I live north of that line and it gets quite hot in the summer at times. I > Also, sitting in a car in the sun in traffic can make it much hotter in  > the interior of the car. > D > A/C in a car is also important for safety: Defogging. Many, if notF > most, or all, automatic climate control systems in cars activate theF > A/C if the temp is above about 40 deg. F. (yes, Fahrenheit) or so toG > help dehumidify the air that is sent to the windshield when defogging > > is specified by the driver. This greatly improves defogging. > I > There are better ways to save energy. This one causes sacrifice. Here's G > one that actually not only causes sacrifice, but improves our quality   + make that: not only DOESN'T cause sacrifice   G > of life: Better lighting at night. Most outdoor fixtures are horribly E > inefficient not due to inefficient bulbs but to poorly designed and I > poorly installed fixtures. Many lights send 40% or more of their output H > up into the sky! Lights aimed at flags often waste 99% of their light!H > By switching to full cutoff fixtures (and spotlights for flags) we canD > save energy AND: reduce glare, improve visibility, improve safety," > reduce ugly clutter, save money. > F > So I'd start with that before making driving more miserable and less > safe.   = (see http://www.darksky.org for more info on better lighting)    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 20:02:32 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>M Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks C Message-ID: <1121136596.651151.280980@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote: K > re: long term good for short term pain during north/south war in the USA.  > M > The same could be said of Hussein gassing the Kurds into submission so they P > would be quiet, or Hittler gasing Jews because he felt they were disruptive of > proper German culture/race.  >  > K > But the USA/UK invasion of Iraq has a major difference: Bush/Bliar/Howard O > acted outside their own jurisdiction without any international mandate. It is P > an agression against another country, another culture and an agression into anG > area that already dislikes and fears the west and whose only possible ' > complaint mechanism is to blow bombs.   E Let's see. How many were killed in the Iraq/Iran war? No one seems to C care about that. I don't see any terrorists getting upset about the A biggest mass murder of Muslims/Arabs of recent times. Where's the  outrage?  @ Agression against another country? Well, yes and no. Most IraqisG appeared to be glad to be rid of Saddam. They were also brave enough to G resist the insurgents when they voted. So Iraq is not of one voice like E you make it out to be. The vast majority of Iraqis aren't complaining F by blowing bombs. They clearly expressed their desire to vote, despiteG the dangers from the insurgents. And they'd never get to vote if Saddam  were still in power.  E What if no Iraqis became insurgents? What if they all participated in G forming a govt? What would be so terrible about that that blowing bombs # becomes the "only possible option"?   F Was it a good idea for US to invade Iraq? Certainly not the way it was* done, but your words are still inaccurate.  D The only way to complain is to blow bombs? Why not just take part in the emerging govt?  $ Most Iraqis are not "blowing bombs".  G Admittedly, the US screwed this up big time by not securing the country A and other missteps. But that's no excuse for the behaviour of the , insurgents. They're killing fellow Iraqis!!!  N > Their own government do not take those complaints to the USA/UK because theyP > fear that the USA will retaliate. So the people of the middle east really haveW > no way to vent their frustration at the inept meddling of USA into their own affairs.   D The Iraqi govt? The one that wouldn't even exist had it not been forD the US invasion? Huh? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! AndF what kind of retaliation are you talking about? That wouldn't make any sense!  M > The government of Egypt is a very good example. They receive huge subsidies O > from the USA. But in exchange, they are expected to be moderate in the middle L > east, and to do so, they have a very careful balancing act to make because  6 You would prefer that Egypt start wars left and right?  M > internally, a lot of Egyptians do not like to see their government being so O > nice to the americans. But the egyptian govt isn't about to criticise the USA   G I'm really tired of your not capitalizing Americans. You obviously have # nothing but contempt for Americans.    [...]   M > Now, Egypt has some of the more moderate people in the middle east. Imagine @ > how bad it gets in the more activist middle eastern countries.  & Yep, more apologizing for the crazies.  G While I think the invasion was a bad idea I think your remarks are also  bad.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:32:04 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> Y Subject: Re: Now the UK Has it's own date in the history of al quiada attacks attacks att 6 Message-ID: <8660a3a10507111432b3f3829@mail.gmail.com>  @ On 7/10/05, prep@prep.synonet.com <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:1 > William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes:  >=20H > > It takes a remarkable amount of logical gymnastics to posit that theC > > liberation of 50 million souls from despotic regimes which were D > > brutally oppressive to women and ethnic minorities was the wrong > > thing to do. >=20J > And what regime would that be? And pray tell use when women got the vote > in Iraq as well. >=20 >=20 > --> > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. A >                                             West Australia 6076 , > comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot0 > Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.H > EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. >=20  ! Go to Google - Search for images.    Use the words=20   Iraqi woman voting.    You'll get the pictures.   : ^ )    Cheers.    WWWebb   --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:00:16 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)R Subject: Qlogic ISP12160 Ultra160, QLA12160/66 dual ultra wide SCSI PCI controller$ Message-ID: <daufk0$rcg$1@online.de>  E I managed to get an ALPHAserver 1200.  Unfortunately, it has just the B short-bus SCSI controller for the CD and one internal device.  TheF BA35x-style shelf in the front is apparently split-bus, so I suppose IF could install a couple of PCI-card SCSI controllers, each one allowingD me to use part of the front shelf and whatever I hook up at the back( (total of 15 devices per bus, I assume).  G I could get a Qlogic (QLA12160/66) dual ultra wide SCSI PCI controller.    A search turned up this:      http://groups.google.de/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/bfe902f65434ab56/f1fe61ad9d0ff639?q=%2212160%22&rnum=4&hl=de#f1fe61ad9d0ff639   2 $ search SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]SYS$CONFIG.DAT;1 12160   on VMS 7.3-2 returns    /    device          = "Qlogic ISP12160 Ultra160"   B So, what are my chances of plugging the Qlogic (QLA12160/66) dual A ultra wide SCSI PCI controller into the ALPHAserver 1200 running  ! VMS 7.3-2 and getting it to work?   H What would be the easiest/cheapest possibility to install a PCI card in G this machine?  It's just a hobbyist machine so official support is not  H an issue, as long as it works reliably.  Allegedly the newer ALPHAs use F "industry standard PC-style PCI hardware", whatever that means.  Do I I stand a chance of buying a controller at a department store or somewhere  1 like that at a reasonable price and have it work?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:16:38 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> V Subject: Re: Qlogic ISP12160 Ultra160, QLA12160/66 dual ultra wide SCSI PCI controller7 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050711141679e04e78@mail.gmail.com>   L T24gNy8xMS8wNSwgUGhpbGxpcCBIZWxiaWctLS1yZW1vdmUgQ0xPVEhFUyB0byByZXBseQo8aGVsL YmlnQGFzdHJvLm11bHRpY2xvdGhlc3ZheC5kZT4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gSSBtYW5hZ2VkIHRvIGdldCBhL biBBTFBIQXNlcnZlciAxMjAwLiAgVW5mb3J0dW5hdGVseSwgaXQgaGFzIGp1c3QgdGhlCj4gc2hvL cnQtYnVzIFNDU0kgY29udHJvbGxlciBmb3IgdGhlIENEIGFuZCBvbmUgaW50ZXJuYWwgZGV2aWNlL LiAgVGhlCj4gQkEzNXgtc3R5bGUgc2hlbGYgaW4gdGhlIGZyb250IGlzIGFwcGFyZW50bHkgc3BsL aXQtYnVzLCBzbyBJIHN1cHBvc2UgSQo+IGNvdWxkIGluc3RhbGwgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgUENJLWNhL cmQgU0NTSSBjb250cm9sbGVycywgZWFjaCBvbmUgYWxsb3dpbmcKPiBtZSB0byB1c2UgcGFydCBvL ZiB0aGUgZnJvbnQgc2hlbGYgYW5kIHdoYXRldmVyIEkgaG9vayB1cCBhdCB0aGUgYmFjawo+ICh0L b3RhbCBvZiAxNSBkZXZpY2VzIHBlciBidXMsIEkgYXNzdW1lKS4KPiAKPiBJIGNvdWxkIGdldCBhL IFFsb2dpYyAoUUxBMTIxNjAvNjYpIGR1YWwgdWx0cmEgd2lkZSBTQ1NJIFBDSSBjb250cm9sbGVyL Lgo+IAo+IEEgc2VhcmNoIHR1cm5lZCB1cCB0aGlzOgo+IAo+ICAgaHR0cDovL2dyb3Vwcy5nb29nL bGUuZGUvZ3JvdXAvY29tcC5vcy52bXMvYnJvd3NlX3RocmVhZC90aHJlYWQvYmZlOTAyZjY1NDM0L YWI1Ni9mMWZlNjFhZDlkMGZmNjM5P3E9JTIyMTIxNjAlMjImcm51bT00JmhsPWRlI2YxZmU2MWFkL OWQwZmY2MzkKPiAKPiAkIHNlYXJjaCBTWVMkQ09NTU9OOltTWVNFWEVdU1lTJENPTkZJRy5EQVQ7L MSAxMjE2MAo+IAo+IG9uIFZNUyA3LjMtMiByZXR1cm5zCj4gCj4gICBkZXZpY2UgICAgICAgICAgL PSAiUWxvZ2ljIElTUDEyMTYwIFVsdHJhMTYwIgo+IAo+IFNvLCB3aGF0IGFyZSBteSBjaGFuY2VzL IG9mIHBsdWdnaW5nIHRoZSBRbG9naWMgKFFMQTEyMTYwLzY2KSBkdWFsCj4gdWx0cmEgd2lkZSBTL Q1NJIFBDSSBjb250cm9sbGVyIGludG8gdGhlIEFMUEhBc2VydmVyIDEyMDAgcnVubmluZwo+IFZNL UyA3LjMtMiBhbmQgZ2V0dGluZyBpdCB0byB3b3JrPwo+IAo+IFdoYXQgd291bGQgYmUgdGhlIGVhL c2llc3QvY2hlYXBlc3QgcG9zc2liaWxpdHkgdG8gaW5zdGFsbCBhIFBDSSBjYXJkIGluCj4gdGhpL cyBtYWNoaW5lPyAgSXQncyBqdXN0IGEgaG9iYnlpc3QgbWFjaGluZSBzbyBvZmZpY2lhbCBzdXBwL b3J0IGlzIG5vdAo+IGFuIGlzc3VlLCBhcyBsb25nIGFzIGl0IHdvcmtzIHJlbGlhYmx5LiAgQWxsL ZWdlZGx5IHRoZSBuZXdlciBBTFBIQXMgdXNlCj4gImluZHVzdHJ5IHN0YW5kYXJkIFBDLXN0eWxlL IFBDSSBoYXJkd2FyZSIsIHdoYXRldmVyIHRoYXQgbWVhbnMuICBEbyBJCj4gc3RhbmQgYSBjaGFuL Y2Ugb2YgYnV5aW5nIGEgY29udHJvbGxlciBhdCBhIGRlcGFydG1lbnQgc3RvcmUgb3Igc29tZXdoL ZXJlCj4gbGlrZSB0aGF0IGF0IGEgcmVhc29uYWJsZSBwcmljZSBhbmQgaGF2ZSBpdCB3b3JrPwo+L IAo+IAoKSG1tbS4gIFdvcnRoIHRyeWluZywgSSBndWVzcywgaWYgeW91IGNhbiBkbyBpdCBmb3IgL ZnJlZS4KClF1aWNrc3BlY3MgZm9yIHRoZSAxMjAwIHNlcmllcyBhcmUgaGVyZToKaHR0cDovL2gxL ODAwMi53d3cxLmhwLmNvbS9wcm9kdWN0cy9xdWlja3NwZWNzL3NvY19hcmNoaXZlcy84MDE5MS5oL dG1sCgpTb3JyeSBmb3IgdGhlIG1lc3MgYmVsb3cgYnV0IHRhYmxlcyBkb24ndCBjb3B5IHdlbGwgL ZnJvbSAucGRmcy4KCk9yZGVyIE51bWJlciBTQ1NJIEFkYXB0ZXIgYW5kIE1pbmltdW0gTy9TIHZlL cnNpb24gc3VwcG9ydGVkIFRydTY0IFVOSVgKV2luZG93cyBOVCBPcGVuVk1TCktaUENNLURBIFBDL SS1iYXNlZCBkdWFsIHBvcnQgVWx0cmFTQ1NJIFNpbmdsZS1lbmRlZCBhZGFwdGVyIGFuZAoxMC8xL MDAgTWJpdCBFdGhlcm5ldCBDb21ibyBhZGFwdGVyLCB1c2VzIDEgUENJIHNsb3QKVjQuMEQgNC4wL IFY3LjEtMUgxCktaUEJBLUNBIFBDSS1iYXNlZCBvbmUgcG9ydCBVbHRyYVNDU0kgU2luZ2xlLWVuL ZGVkIGFkYXB0ZXIgVjMuMkcgNC4wIFY3LjEtMUgxCktaUEFDLUFBIFBDSS1iYXNlZCBvbmUgcG9yL dCBSQUlEIGNvbnRyb2xsZXIgd2l0aCA0IE1CIGNhY2hlLCBub3QKZmFjdG9yeSBjb25maWd1cmVkL IGFzIFJBSUQgc2V0ClYzLjJHIDQuMCBWNy4xLTFIMQpLWlBBQy1DQSBQQ0ktYmFzZWQgdGhyZWUgL cG9ydCBSQUlEIGNvbnRyb2xsZXIgd2l0aCA0IE1CIGNhY2hlLCBub3QKZmFjdG9yeSBjb25maWd1L cmVkIGFzIFJBSUQgc2V0ClYzLjJHIDQuMCBWNy4xLTFIMQpLWlBBQy1DQiBTYW1lIGFzIJZDQSBhL Ym92ZSB3aXRoIDggTUIgY2FjaGUgbWVtb3J5IFYzLjJHIDQuMCBWNy4xLTFIMQoKCldXV2ViYgotL LSAKTk9URTogVGhpcyBlbWFpbCBhZGRyZXNzIGlzIG9ubHkgdXNlZCBmb3Igbm9uY29tbWVyaWNhL bCBWTVMtcmVsYXRlZApjb3JyZXNwb25kZW5jZS4KQWxsIHVuc29saWNpdGVkIGNvbW1lcmNpYWwgL ZW1haWwgd2lsbCBiZSBkZWVtZWQgdG8gYmUgYSByZXF1ZXN0IGZvcgpzZXJ2aWNlcyBwdXJzdWFuL dCB0byB0aGUgdGVybXMgYW5kIGNvbmRpdGlvbnMgbG9jYXRlZCBhdApodHRwOi8vYmVsbHNvdXRo cHdwLm5ldC93L2Uvd2ViYnd3Lwo=   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 23:16:21 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) V Subject: Re: Qlogic ISP12160 Ultra160, QLA12160/66 dual ultra wide SCSI PCI controller2 Message-ID: <95DAe.8296$J%7.7126@news.cpqcorp.net>  w In article <daufk0$rcg$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: ( :I managed to get an ALPHAserver 1200...H :I could get a Qlogic (QLA12160/66) dual ultra wide SCSI PCI controller. ..0 :   device          = "Qlogic ISP12160 Ultra160" : C :So, what are my chances of plugging the Qlogic (QLA12160/66) dual  B :ultra wide SCSI PCI controller into the ALPHAserver 1200 running " :VMS 7.3-2 and getting it to work?  B   Try it, or find somebody that has already tried it -- preferably/   in a similar system configuration, of course.   I :What would be the easiest/cheapest possibility to install a PCI card in  H :this machine?  It's just a hobbyist machine so official support is not I :an issue, as long as it works reliably.  Allegedly the newer ALPHAs use  G :"industry standard PC-style PCI hardware", whatever that means.  Do I  J :stand a chance of buying a controller at a department store or somewhere 2 :like that at a reasonable price and have it work?  D   "It depends".  If the device works like a supported device, you'llE   be fine.  If the device doesn't, well, you'll potentially have some 
   trouble.  F   If you want to be certain the device will work, acquire a supported 	   device.   F   This isn't intended to be evasive, either -- there's a misconceptionF   around that I/O devices are compatible and interchangeable, and thisG   largely seems to arise from the gazillions of vendor-provided drivers G   found in Microsoft Windows.  Devices that are considered "compatible" F   are not  "identical", of course -- if the device was "identical", itF   would be sold as such -- and "compatible" devices can require driverH   modifications or other work within the host operating system.  DevicesG   that we have tested and know work are on the supported hardware list.   F   If you want to see what options you have, visit the AlphaServer siteH   (via <http://www.hp.com/go/server/>) and navigate down through to the D   supported options list for the (retired servers) AlphaServer 1200 D   series.  That box might be far enough back that you might also be D   looking at the old DIGITAL Systems and Options Catalog (SOC), too.  *   Here's the direct (though volatile) URL:  L   <http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/options/as1200/as1200_options.html>  G   I've certainly stuffed some odd widgets into various Alpha PCI buses, I   and some have worked and some have not.  Some I've written drivers for, J   and some I've simply transfered tweaked entries from SYS$CONFIG.DAT overK   into SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT -- sometimes just the PCI id needs to be changed J   and an existing (similar) driver can be borrowed, and sometimes you needI   an updated or even a whole new device driver.  And sometimes you crash, H   and sometimes you bus-hang.  Hardware support is nothing if not fun...      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 17:28:46 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> V Subject: Re: Qlogic ISP12160 Ultra160, QLA12160/66 dual ultra wide SCSI PCI controllerB Message-ID: <1121128126.887112.97030@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: I >   I've certainly stuffed some odd widgets into various Alpha PCI buses, K >   and some have worked and some have not.  Some I've written drivers for, L >   and some I've simply transfered tweaked entries from SYS$CONFIG.DAT overM >   into SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT -- sometimes just the PCI id needs to be changed L >   and an existing (similar) driver can be borrowed, and sometimes you needK >   an updated or even a whole new device driver.  And sometimes you crash, J >   and sometimes you bus-hang.  Hardware support is nothing if not fun...  C After reading this I went trolling through SYS$CONFIG.DAT I noticed ? there are quite a few devices listed that don't have drivers in F SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES.  This is on a fresh 7.3-2 isntall with no patchesF applied.  What happened to the drivers?  Were they not quite ready for prime time?  Just curious.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 20:03:35 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) H Subject: Re: SDL (was: Re: A tale of two macro libraries LIB vs STARLET)2 Message-ID: <rgAAe.8274$zM7.2739@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <rdeininger-0607052200560001@user-105n9d9.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:4 :In article <81rnFLaMIZAs@eisner.encompasserve.org>,- :koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org wrote:  : P :>In article <opstf2pycgzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: :>> H :>> Aren't all the STARLET libs derived from the underlying SDL sources? :>F :>   I'm under the impression (reading through the cracks) the SDL was
 :>   abandon.  : 7 :SDL is used in every VMS build on all 3 architectures.   G   We removed the PL/I requirement within SDL, not the use of SDL within 
   OpenVMS.  K   There are now (at least) three versions of SDL in existence, two of which 0   are available on the current OpenVMS Freeware.  K   The PCSI-based SDL installation kit on the current Freeware is the latest I   implementation, and is expected to generate compatible source code with H   Alpha_SDL, the older of the two SDL packages available.  It's also theK   basis for new SDL changes.  The older Alpha_SDL kit used PL/I.  The newer J   kit is intended to generate output identical to the older Alpha_SDL kit,J   too -- you should even be able to DIFFERENCE the outputs to verify this.  K   Despite the name, Alpha_SDL runs on OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX -- the  J   name was intended to indicate SDL changes made in support of the OpenVMS7   Alpha port, and not the target platform for the tool.   H   The oldest of the major SDL implementations -- the classic old VAX SDLJ   implementation -- is still used for parts of the OpenVMS VAX build, too.J   (The VAX SDL kit was never released into the field, AFAIK.  I know of noI   plans to release it, either.  As stated, Alpha_SDL runs on both OpenVMS H   VAX and Alpha, and the the most recent SDL -- the PCSI kit -- operates&   on all three OpenVMS architectures.)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 13:55:32 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 3 Subject: Re: Top Intel architect flees coop for AMD 3 Message-ID: <ovA4tKBeOJdP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   N In article <opstpiumapzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24500 ( > Top Intel architect flees coop for AMD > ) > Once more into the breach, dear friends   C    Meanwhile Green Hills (an RTOS vendor) as just announced support     for Itanium.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 21:31:11 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> 3 Subject: Re: Top Intel architect flees coop for AMD + Message-ID: <3jg2j2Fphns2U1@individual.net>   ) On 2005-07-11 20:55, "Bob Koehler" wrote:   E >    Meanwhile Green Hills (an RTOS vendor) as just announced support  >    for Itanium.   E A RTOS running on a *high* power CPU?? Strange, really. Usually RTOSs . are running on embedded, i.e. low-power, CPUs.   Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2005 13:10:30 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Upgrading VMS3 Message-ID: <okyJ0YbeZrwE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   N In article <EkxAe.226150$El.192759@pd7tw1no>, Evan <Evan@anonymous.ca> writes:  D > No one has mentioned the Sarbanes-Oxley type influence. Is this a H > non-issue? Some friends were recently commenting that they were being K > forced to upgrade other pieces of software (Oracle in particular) as the  J > auditors would no longer certify the business as 'stable' (or whatever) J > because it was reliant on software that had gone off support. Is this a @ > red herring or just a specific instance of agressive auditors?  E Everything I have read about Sarbanes-Oxley has been extremely fuzzy, C leaving everything up to the interpretation of local evaluators.  I D expect proof of having source listings and trained people accustomedF to making modifications to VMS would be an adequate defense, but there! are not too many sites like that.   B Sarbanes-Oxley evaluators _should_ be paying a lot of attention to; stability, and not upgrading is the best road to stability.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 20:03:55 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Upgrading VMS+ Message-ID: <42D316FB.E9800AC8@comcast.net>    Evan wrote:  >  > David D Miller wrote:  > >  > >  > > 
 > > G'day: > > M > > How do you make a decision to upgrade?  Is your decision ruled by Policy? K > > By convenience (nothing else to do today)?  Or do you have an objective  > > criteria that you apply? > > N > > Specifically, is 7.3 good enough (in some sense) or is 7.3-2 a better bet? > > N > > I suppose the same question could be applied to patches -- but then again,% > > maybe you apply the same process.  > >  > > Thanks, dave.  > >  > 9 > No one has mentioned the Sarbanes-Oxley type influence.   F Not sure what Sarb/Ox would have to do with OpenVMS or any other o.s.,; since most of the work is done in the application "layers".    > Is this a G > non-issue? Some friends were recently commenting that they were being J > forced to upgrade other pieces of software (Oracle in particular) as theI > auditors would no longer certify the business as 'stable' (or whatever) ? > because it was reliant on software that had gone off support.   @ That's like dropping certification for a medical/scientific/etc.H instrument that goes out of warranty. Makes no sense. Show 'em the door.   > Is this a @ > red herring or just a specific instance of agressive auditors?   Who certified the auditors?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.385 ************************