1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 17 Jul 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 395       Contents:, Re: Good luck to VMS engineering and support Re: MONO (.net for UNIX) Re: MONO (.net for UNIX) Re: MONO (.net for UNIX)1 Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India 1 Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India 1 Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India 1 Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India 1 Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India 1 Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India 1 Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India 1 Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India / RE: VMS process priorities and system processes   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:29:25 -0700 + From: terry golden <terrygolden@brandx.net> 5 Subject: Re: Good luck to VMS engineering and support - Message-ID: <dbbn6i$15v9$1@madmax.keyway.net>   @ Now that levenro is out there in the mkt place is the concept of? making PC's viable. For IBM the answer was no, tell get it that @ you can't compete with slave labour. As to printer let's face it> most of the profit is in selling the way overpriced ink, which: seems to nearing replacing ed durgs as the subject of spam= on the net, so it won't be too long before corps start buying > the colon carts (to insure cio gets 10% bonus). Seems HP would> be smart to sell off both bizs and invest in storage and maybe( cutting edge computing say ev9 of alpha.   JF Mezei wrote: ] > http://news.com.com/HP+gears+up+for+layoffs%2C+reorg/2100-7341_3-5788885.html?tag=nefd.lede  > O > By monday, the news of 15k layoffs should be public. The article does mention 4 > that Hurd feels that some areas are underinvested. > O > Lets hope that the VMS folks and ambassadors will not only be spared the cuts = > but will also be the focus of increased investment from HP.  > 9 > Good luck to those ex Digits now under the HP umbrella.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:44:36 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>! Subject: Re: MONO (.net for UNIX) B Message-ID: <42d963a5$0$16824$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   Richard Maher wrote:  
 > Hi John, > 4 >>Will there be a Hobbyist License for this product? >  > N > If I have to go that far then yes. How this will be licensed and are VMS (orL > Rdb) Management interested in taking it on, are all issues that are up forK > grabs. In the mean time, are you interested in beta testing it? I'm doing N > *my* last proof-reads of the docs this week-end. (Word only at the moment. IK > have to find some PDF converter) Would you like to have a look? If ther's    Hi Richard,   I may I suggest trying-out Open Office. It's Word Processor will edit Word  F Documents, and it has a PDF Export function built-in. I've been using J quite successfully this way. Open Office is available for download from...   http://www.openoffice.org/  @  From what I have gathered from reading the various VMS and Rdb G newsgroups, you have been working on your TIP middleware package for a  I few years. So I would like to congratulate you, Richard, for persevering  + with your project and having come this far.   G I'm currently involved in a few small projects of my own, which I hope  G to have finished soon. After which I would be interested in trying out  7 your T3 Middleware as well. My posting address is real.    Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    P.S.D As a side note for lurkers, there is a group porting Open Office to H OpenVMS at http://www.oooovms.dyndns.org/ , and I believe they are also ) still looking for volunteers to help out.   * > genuine interest in this then who knows? >  > Regards Richard Maher  > N > PS. If I do have to go the whole-hog myself then I'm toying with the idea ofN > a license along the lines of Oracle's. i.e. you can develop with it and whenL > you sell your product the user has to buy Tier3. Imagine - Your product isL > just 6 User Action Routines in a shareable image and an entry in the Tier3 > Configuration File!  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:15:57 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>! Subject: Re: MONO (.net for UNIX) ) Message-ID: <42D96AFD.6040207@vajhoej.dk>    Richard Maher wrote:N > So, not wanting to start an off-topic thread or appear to love VMS less thanG > I do, but yes I agree with you about vms not having much place on the I > desktop. I'm not sure about engineering or cad/cam apps but for general M > commercial apps I think the truth is self-evident that VMS is not there and K > never will be there, But so what? (Or is MONO specifically a GUI-oriented  > translator?)  ? .NET (and therefore mono) is absolutely not limited to desktop.   M > Do you not see VMS as potentially the best-placed server OS to backup these H > flaky front-end apps with stability, performance and disaster-tolerantN > reliability? If only there were a simple and effective way to interface yourL > beautiful .NET apps with your rock-solid VMS back-end! If only there was aJ > VMS Transaction Manager that let you deploy the middleware product(s) ofM > your choice yet still preserve transactional integrity for your distributed  > heterogeneous data resources!    VMS is a great OS.  ? But all theese J2EE and .NET backend systems being developed is  not being deployed on VMS.  1 And I do not have imagination to see that change.    Arne   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:35:16 +0000 (UTC) 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> ! Subject: Re: MONO (.net for UNIX) ? Message-ID: <dbc233$2ds$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>   	 Hi Keith,   L Thanks for the PDF converter pointer. A couple of other people have given me options as well.  J > few years. So I would like to congratulate you, Richard, for persevering- > with your project and having come this far.   K Thanks for that! I would have finished it a lot quicker if I had the chance I (money!). I'm self-funding and have to also bring the money in to pay the L bills and the kids are so demanding and Rdb/VMS weren't interested and moan,* moan whinge, whinge. . . Anyway it's here!  H > I'm currently involved in a few small projects of my own, which I hopeH > to have finished soon. After which I would be interested in trying out9 > your T3 Middleware as well. My posting address is real.   G Consider it done. (I would've sent it to you tonight but my wife opened K another bottle of wine and there was a good CSI re-run on and. . .I'll read  it tomorrow :-)    Cheers Richard.   = "Keith Cayemberg" <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote in message < news:42d963a5$0$16824$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net... > Richard Maher wrote: >  > > Hi John, > > 6 > >>Will there be a Hobbyist License for this product? > >  > > L > > If I have to go that far then yes. How this will be licensed and are VMS (or J > > Rdb) Management interested in taking it on, are all issues that are up for G > > grabs. In the mean time, are you interested in beta testing it? I'm  doing F > > *my* last proof-reads of the docs this week-end. (Word only at the	 moment. I F > > have to find some PDF converter) Would you like to have a look? If ther's > 
 > Hi Richard,  > J > may I suggest trying-out Open Office. It's Word Processor will edit WordG > Documents, and it has a PDF Export function built-in. I've been using L > quite successfully this way. Open Office is available for download from... >  > http://www.openoffice.org/ > A >  From what I have gathered from reading the various VMS and Rdb H > newsgroups, you have been working on your TIP middleware package for aJ > few years. So I would like to congratulate you, Richard, for persevering- > with your project and having come this far.  > H > I'm currently involved in a few small projects of my own, which I hopeH > to have finished soon. After which I would be interested in trying out9 > your T3 Middleware as well. My posting address is real.  > 	 > Cheers!  >  > Keith Cayemberg  >  > P.S.E > As a side note for lurkers, there is a group porting Open Office to I > OpenVMS at http://www.oooovms.dyndns.org/ , and I believe they are also + > still looking for volunteers to help out.  > , > > genuine interest in this then who knows? > >  > > Regards Richard Maher  > > H > > PS. If I do have to go the whole-hog myself then I'm toying with the idea of K > > a license along the lines of Oracle's. i.e. you can develop with it and  whenK > > you sell your product the user has to buy Tier3. Imagine - Your product  isH > > just 6 User Action Routines in a shareable image and an entry in the Tier3  > > Configuration File!  > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:12:29 -0700 + From: terry golden <terrygolden@brandx.net> : Subject: Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India- Message-ID: <dbbm6t$15ct$1@madmax.keyway.net>   C I would very much agree, and add that to insure max profit requires A staff that are basically very inexperienced and infact only speak ? hindish a 1/2 English. Also cultural differences come into play A as they will agree with anything you say even if it's dead wrong, > leading to at best confusion and at worst some nasty outcomes.  F I've sent back Symantec products, and told the CEO, because I couldn'tE get them to work and playing monkey tag with thier <<support system>> B and green collies never resolved the problems, only to waste hoursA on end. I found better similar programs made in the USA with real A support systems. In fact when I told this the collie on the other A end he got mad and refused to believe it saying "...all companies ? offshore" such is the level of brainwashing that prevals today.   > Look it's all about the ceo pay. So I would encourage everyoneA not to buy from colliesourcers, but when you buy send the reciept A to the major analysts covering the competing colliesourcer with a E note explaining bought elsewhere owning to the colliesourcing policy. @ When the analysts start seeing this as a real movement only thenD will this insanity stop, cause the ceo will take the analysts calls,C have to answer thier concerns. The outrage against gobalization and > uncontrolled migration will lead to a storm that will make the3 civil rights struggle seem like a day at the beach.    GreyCloud wrote: > Jeff Cameron wrote:  > H >>I'd like to gauge the reaction of all of you. How would you react to aJ >>company that you were used to giving you great OpenVMS technical supportL >>over the phone, announcing that they were sending that technical telephone >>support offshore to India? >  > < > My experience with technical telephone support in India is: > an excercise in linguistic futility and frustration.  It* > would give the company a bad reputation.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:29:23 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>: Subject: Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India2 Message-ID: <D6eCe.8696$Cp3.6593@news.cpqcorp.net>  F I'll bite.  What's a "collie"?  It is used apparently as a pejoritive.> I'm guessing you meant "coolie" - in which case, I'm sure that@ no matter what else you have to say - you're an ***hole.  I also> guess I don't get the slang "monkey tag", but I'm sure I won't& like it when I find out what it means.  @ You know, I'm not particularly fond of "offshoring" because I've; seen a number of good and highly educated people lose their = jobs to it.  However, I also have to work with many people in ; India, and it does them a great injustice to insult them as : somehow inferior.  They are smart, learn fast, and perhaps> unfortunately for us in the US, live someplace where they cost; much less to employ.  The people I'm currently working with = in India are doing a *great* job, and I am glad to have them. ; I can't complain about *them* - all they did was get a good ; education, learn english, and happen to live somewhere that ' half my pay is *very* well compensated.   < Eventually we (the US, Europe, etc) will either see our jobs= worth less, or the jobs in places like India will make enough < money that they are not worth the difficulty of being a half: world away (from say the US).  The cost of people in IndiaB is rising rapidly - it's like the late 70's early 80's was here in; the States (if you knew computers) - people are job hopping ? like mad and the cost differential is shrinking (both in salary ? cost, and in the cost of attrition and the loss of the training : and experience as you need to hire and train someone new).? So *maybe* it won't be a race to the bottom - to turn us into a 5 3rd world country, and the outflow of jobs will slow.   7 So.  Feel free to be upset about outsourcing.  Get your 6 congressman or Senator to do something constructive to8 reduce the trend - that is, make it cheaper to employ US8 labor or more expensive to send it offshore.  But making= ignorant slurs won't buy you anything in my book.  I've dealt 9 with customer support both onshore and offshore and found 7 as many idiots and as many great assets on both shores.         8 "terry golden" <terrygolden@brandx.net> wrote in message' news:dbbm6t$15ct$1@madmax.keyway.net... E > I would very much agree, and add that to insure max profit requires C > staff that are basically very inexperienced and infact only speak A > hindish a 1/2 English. Also cultural differences come into play C > as they will agree with anything you say even if it's dead wrong, @ > leading to at best confusion and at worst some nasty outcomes. > H > I've sent back Symantec products, and told the CEO, because I couldn'tG > get them to work and playing monkey tag with thier <<support system>> D > and green collies never resolved the problems, only to waste hoursC > on end. I found better similar programs made in the USA with real C > support systems. In fact when I told this the collie on the other C > end he got mad and refused to believe it saying "...all companies A > offshore" such is the level of brainwashing that prevals today.  > @ > Look it's all about the ceo pay. So I would encourage everyoneC > not to buy from colliesourcers, but when you buy send the reciept C > to the major analysts covering the competing colliesourcer with a G > note explaining bought elsewhere owning to the colliesourcing policy. B > When the analysts start seeing this as a real movement only thenF > will this insanity stop, cause the ceo will take the analysts calls,E > have to answer thier concerns. The outrage against gobalization and @ > uncontrolled migration will lead to a storm that will make the5 > civil rights struggle seem like a day at the beach.  >  > GreyCloud wrote: > > Jeff Cameron wrote:  > > J > >>I'd like to gauge the reaction of all of you. How would you react to aL > >>company that you were used to giving you great OpenVMS technical supportD > >>over the phone, announcing that they were sending that technical	 telephone  > >>support offshore to India? > >  > > > > > My experience with technical telephone support in India is< > > an excercise in linguistic futility and frustration.  It, > > would give the company a bad reputation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:20:34 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>: Subject: Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India0 Message-ID: <BEFEE452.110C5%roktsci@comcast.net>  J On 7/15/05 5:32 PM, in article sAYBe.1371$iG6.666@tornado.tampabay.rr.com,& "Beach Runner" <bob@nospam.com> wrote:   >  >  > Jeff Cameron wrote: I >> I'd like to gauge the reaction of all of you. How would you react to a K >> company that you were used to giving you great OpenVMS technical support M >> over the phone, announcing that they were sending that technical telephone  >> support offshore to India?  >>   >  > J > I'd be worried about a nation that is sending it's technical jobs to oneI > nation and it's manufacturing to another.  Such an economy will have to  > collapse. I While I agree with the political aspect you state, I am more concerned on K the effect on business, specifically from the customer who is receiving the J technical support. Do you feel the level of support is the same, better orF worse? What experiences do you have with technical support from India.  H I am not interested in front line support that merely routs calls or can- look up customer information on the computer.   
 Thank you!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:24:05 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>: Subject: Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India0 Message-ID: <BEFEE525.110C6%roktsci@comcast.net>  F On 7/15/05 8:47 PM, in article 42D88356.A2D62210@comcast.net, "David J, Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:   > Jeff Cameron wrote:  >>  I >> I'd like to gauge the reaction of all of you. How would you react to a K >> company that you were used to giving you great OpenVMS technical support M >> over the phone, announcing that they were sending that technical telephone  >> support offshore to India?  >   > ...you mean like HP did to us? > L Really? I'm still talking to Atlanta and Colorado folks that I knew from preJ Compaq days. Maybe HP went offshore for PC and printer support, but I have% not noticed it yet in OpenVMS support  Jeff   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 23:52:00 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> : Subject: Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India9 Message-ID: <A4hCe.3811$iG6.3420@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>    FredK wrote:H > I'll bite.  What's a "collie"?  It is used apparently as a pejoritive.@ > I'm guessing you meant "coolie" - in which case, I'm sure thatB > no matter what else you have to say - you're an ***hole.  I also@ > guess I don't get the slang "monkey tag", but I'm sure I won't( > like it when I find out what it means. > B > You know, I'm not particularly fond of "offshoring" because I've= > seen a number of good and highly educated people lose their ? > jobs to it.  However, I also have to work with many people in = > India, and it does them a great injustice to insult them as < > somehow inferior.  They are smart, learn fast, and perhaps@ > unfortunately for us in the US, live someplace where they cost= > much less to employ.  The people I'm currently working with ? > in India are doing a *great* job, and I am glad to have them. = > I can't complain about *them* - all they did was get a good = > education, learn english, and happen to live somewhere that ) > half my pay is *very* well compensated.  > > > Eventually we (the US, Europe, etc) will either see our jobs? > worth less, or the jobs in places like India will make enough > > money that they are not worth the difficulty of being a half< > world away (from say the US).  The cost of people in IndiaD > is rising rapidly - it's like the late 70's early 80's was here in= > the States (if you knew computers) - people are job hopping A > like mad and the cost differential is shrinking (both in salary A > cost, and in the cost of attrition and the loss of the training < > and experience as you need to hire and train someone new).A > So *maybe* it won't be a race to the bottom - to turn us into a 7 > 3rd world country, and the outflow of jobs will slow.  > 9 > So.  Feel free to be upset about outsourcing.  Get your 8 > congressman or Senator to do something constructive to: > reduce the trend - that is, make it cheaper to employ US: > labor or more expensive to send it offshore.  But making? > ignorant slurs won't buy you anything in my book.  I've dealt ; > with customer support both onshore and offshore and found 9 > as many idiots and as many great assets on both shores.  >  >  >  > : > "terry golden" <terrygolden@brandx.net> wrote in message) > news:dbbm6t$15ct$1@madmax.keyway.net...  > E >>I would very much agree, and add that to insure max profit requires C >>staff that are basically very inexperienced and infact only speak A >>hindish a 1/2 English. Also cultural differences come into play C >>as they will agree with anything you say even if it's dead wrong, @ >>leading to at best confusion and at worst some nasty outcomes. >>H >>I've sent back Symantec products, and told the CEO, because I couldn'tG >>get them to work and playing monkey tag with thier <<support system>> D >>and green collies never resolved the problems, only to waste hoursC >>on end. I found better similar programs made in the USA with real C >>support systems. In fact when I told this the collie on the other C >>end he got mad and refused to believe it saying "...all companies A >>offshore" such is the level of brainwashing that prevals today.  >>@ >>Look it's all about the ceo pay. So I would encourage everyoneC >>not to buy from colliesourcers, but when you buy send the reciept C >>to the major analysts covering the competing colliesourcer with a G >>note explaining bought elsewhere owning to the colliesourcing policy. B >>When the analysts start seeing this as a real movement only thenF >>will this insanity stop, cause the ceo will take the analysts calls,E >>have to answer thier concerns. The outrage against gobalization and @ >>uncontrolled migration will lead to a storm that will make the5 >>civil rights struggle seem like a day at the beach.  >> >>GreyCloud wrote: >> >>>Jeff Cameron wrote: >>>  >>> J >>>>I'd like to gauge the reaction of all of you. How would you react to aL >>>>company that you were used to giving you great OpenVMS technical supportD >>>>over the phone, announcing that they were sending that technical >  > telephone  >  >>>>support offshore to India? >>>  >>> = >>>My experience with technical telephone support in India is ; >>>an excercise in linguistic futility and frustration.  It + >>>would give the company a bad reputation.  >  >  >   H The problem is you are not playing on a level field. India provides the G buildings, the guards, the locked parking lots, and says, here use our  C support.  So it is heavily subsidized to get the business. It's an   unfair advantage.   G If the quality is just as good, fine, but when the language difficulty  E interferes with the customer experience, that it is not as good, and  ( people should let management/sales know.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 23:28:24 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India= Message-ID: <F7OdnfZf08nGTUTfRVn-oA@metrocastcablevision.com>    FredK wrote:H > I'll bite.  What's a "collie"?  It is used apparently as a pejoritive.  C That was my impression as well.  I'm usually not much for 'me-too'  E posts, but it gives me some pleasure to read something from you with  % which I can agree so whole-heartedly.   F Thanks for taking the time to create such a detailed, rational, and I 3 hope for at least some people informative response.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:09:00 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>: Subject: Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India' Message-ID: <42D9D9DC.23F75DF@mist.com>   
 leslie wrote:  > & > Beach Runner (bob@nospam.com) wrote: > :  > : Jeff Cameron wrote: J > : > I'd like to gauge the reaction of all of you. How would you react toH > : > a company that you were used to giving you great OpenVMS technicalN > : > support over the phone, announcing that they were sending that technical* > : > telephone support offshore to India? > : >  > : L > : I'd be worried about a nation that is sending it's technical jobs to one- > : nation and it's manufacturing to another.  > N > It's also sending much of its R&D overseas, as well as biotech and the other > "Next Big Things". >  > : * > : Such an economy will have to collapse. > :  > " > Or become a third-world country: > 4 >    http://www.vdare.com/roberts/050715_descent.htmA >    VDARE.com: 07/15/05 - America's Descent Into The Third World  > + >   "America's Descent Into The Third World  >    By Paul Craig Roberts > K >    The June payroll jobs report did not receive much attention due to the K >    July 4 holiday, but the depressing 21st century job performance of the # >    US economy continues unabated.  > I >    Only 144,000 private sector jobs were created, each one of which was  >    in domestic services. > J >    56,000 jobs were created in professional and business services, about< >    half of which are in administrative and waste services. > J >    38,000 jobs were created in education and health services, almost all7 >    of which are in health care and social assistance.  > G >    19,000 jobs were created in leisure and hospitality, almost all of ) >    which are waitresses and bartenders.  > F >    Membership associations and organizations created 10,000 jobs and/ >    repair and maintenance created 4,000 jobs.  > . >    Financial activities created 16,000 jobs. > I >    This most certainly is not the labor market profile of a first world % >    country, much less a superpower.  > G >    Where are the jobs for this year's crop of engineering and science  >    graduates?  > 7 >    US manufacturing lost another 24,000 jobs in June.  > H >    A country that doesn't manufacture doesn't need many engineers. And9 >    the few engineering jobs available go to foreigners.  > J >    Readers have sent me employment listings from US software developmentJ >    firms. The listings are discriminatory against American citizens. OneA >    ad from a company in New Jersey that is a developer for many J >    companies, including Oracle, specifies that the applicant must have a
 >    TN visa.  > I >    A TN or Trade Nafta visa is what is given to Mexicans and Canadians, A >    who are willing to work in the US at below prevailing wages.  > B >    Another ad from a software consulting company based in Omaha,A >    Nebraska, specifies it wants software engineers who are H-1B E >    transferees. What this means is that the firm is advertising for ; >    foreigners already in the US who have H-1B work visas.  > > >    The reason the US firms specify that they have employmentI >    opportunities only for foreigners who hold work visas is because the A >    foreigners will work for less than the prevailing US salary.  > I >    Gentle reader, when you read allegations that there is a shortage of I >    engineers in America, necessitating the importation of foreigners to C >    do the work, you are reading a bald faced lie. If there were a G >    shortage of American engineers, employers would not word their job C >    listings to read that no American need apply and that they are 9 >    offering jobs only to foreigners holding work visas.  > E >    What kind of country gives preference to foreigners over its own  >    engineering graduates?  > G >    What kind of country destroys the job market for its own citizens?  > B >    How much longer will parents shell out $100,000 for a collegeH >    education for a son or daughter who end up employed as a bartender, >    waitress, or temp?" >   ( Good points.  Make mine a scotch & soda.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 00:36:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> : Subject: Re: Offshore Telephone Technical support to India, Message-ID: <42D9E025.7E89CF15@teksavvy.com>  J The local squirrels and racoons get fed with peanuts from china. The localM convenience store has bottled water from the region, as well as bottled water M from Fiji.   In New Zealand, I saw bottled water from Qubec. In Australia, I   saw bottled water from Iceland.   I Globalisation is there. live with it. Learn to profit from it. If a small M qubec bottler was able to export water to New Zealand (which has no shortage < of water), then it shows there are opportunities to be had.       N Moving a service to India isn't wrong per say. What is wrong is moving it to aN whole bunch of folks who just got trained and don't yet have enough experienceK to provide the level of technical expertise that used to be provided. Given Q time, they will acquire such experience, but meanwhile, customers won't be happy.   L pre outsourcing, your support infrastructure had a relatively small turnover? with new folks coming in and working with experienced folks, so - knowledge/experience was quickly transfered.    L But when you train just a few very quickly and send them to India to train aL whole bunch of people who take over all support calls next month, then thereI is no way that they can provide the depth of knowledge and experience the 0 former support organisation was able to provide.    H This would happen irrespective to where you're moving it. As a canadian,N dealing with someone with an indian accent isn't much harder than dealing withQ an american with deep southern accent, or a newfoundlander with deep nfld accent.   E If the knowledge is good, you don't complain about the accent. If the H knowledge/service isn't good, then you complain and add complaints about accent to the lot.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:12:05 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 8 Subject: RE: VMS process priorities and system processesR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB651345@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Albrecht Schlosser [mailto:ajs856@tiscali.de]=20 > Sent: July 15, 2005 6:55 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 > Subject: VMS process priorities and system processes >=20 > Hi,  >=20> > I'm looking for a way to give some application and server=20 > processes different=20
 > priorities:  >=20! > highest:  some server processes ' > high   :  some other server processes ( > medium :  some communication processes  > low    :  some other processes > lowest :  client processes >=20: > This would result in a process priority "window" of 5=20 > different priorities.=206 > These priorities should all be higher than normal=20# > (interactive) user priorities,=20 = > which are by default 4. Batch priorities are still lower=20  > (from 1 to 3). >=20@ > What I'm concerned about: if I would use priorities 5-9 (or=20 > higher), then some=20 < > processes would have higher priorities than some system=20 > processes, as can be=20 8 > seen here (from a running OpenVMS Itanium 8.2 system): >=208 > process name          state   username  pri/bpri imageD > ------------------------------------------------------------------8 > OPCOM                   HIB   SYSTEM      8/ 6   OPCOM9 > ERRFMT                  HIB   SYSTEM      8/ 7   ERRFMT ? > AUDIT_SERVER            HIB   AUDIT$SERV 10/ 8   AUDIT_SERVER @ > TCPIP$INETACP           HIB   INTERNET   10/ 8   TCPIP$INETACP9 > IPCACP                  HIB   SYSTEM     10/ 8   IPCACP 9 > TP_SERVER               HIB   SYSTEM     10/ 8   TPSERV D > QUEUE_MANAGER           HIB   SYSTEM     10/ 8   QMAN$QUEUE_MANAGEB > SECURITY_SERVER         HIB   SYSTEM     10/ 8   SECURITY_SERVERB > JOB_CONTROL             HIB   SYSTEM      9/ 8   JBC$JOB_CONTROLC > TCPIP$FTP_1             LEF   TCPIP$FTP  10/ 8   TCPIP$FTP_SERVER 9 > LATACP                  HIB   SYSTEM     14/12   LATACP 9 > LANACP                  HIB   SYSTEM     14/12   LANACP 0 > SWAPPER                 HIB   SYSTEM     16/16 >=20> > I think that realtime priorities would not be needed, but=20 > what about all these=20 7 > processes with (base) priorities from 6 to 8, e.g.=20  > TCPIP$INETACP, IPCACP, or=20; > TPSERV. I would prefer to give lower priorities to the=20  > application processes=20A > than to these system processes, but the "window" from 4 to 6=20  > is too small.  >=20@ > What do you do WRT process priorities? Raise system process=20 > priorities? What=20 9 > should be done (or not be done) to keep a stable and=20  > responsive system? >=20; > Additional background information: Of course, the high=20  > priority server processes=20? > are tested well and stable, but some other processes might=20  > come into a CPU loop=20 B > or similar (e.g. once there was a process with a read timeout=20 > of 0 seconds,=20= > which came from a (missing) user input timeout value :-( ).  >=20B > In such cases a system manager should still be able to log in=20 > and suspend/stop=20 > > such bad behaving processes. And network activities (many=20 > processes connect via=20= > TCPIP services) should never be blocked by other processes.  >=20 > Any suggestions what to do?  >=20	 > Regards  >=20
 > Albrecht >=20  B It would appear that you want to ensure some processes of the sameF priority do not impact other processese e.g. process runaway stuff.=20  C As others have stated, you can get into trouble by purposely mixing " priorities on specific priorities.  E As a suggestion, I would suggest you consider using the OpenVMS class  scheduler to do this.   
 Reference: Sysman> Help class  H http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732FINAL/6048/6048pro_005.html#startsubcom mand_431D "The class scheduler provides the ability to limit the amount of CPUA time that a system's users receive by placing users in scheduling F classes. Each class is assigned a percentage of the overall system CPUA time. As the system runs, the combined set of users in a class is B limited to the percentage of CPU execution time allocated to their	 class.=20   F Users might get some additional CPU time if the qualifier /WINDFALL isD enabled for their scheduling class. Enabling the qualifier /WINDFALLD allows the system to give a small amount of CPU time to a schedulingH class when the scheduling class's allotted time has been depleted, but a free CPU is available."    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.395 ************************