1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 04 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 309       Contents:
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day < Re: Canadian fighter jets intercept pedo psychopath mrtravel9 Re: Canadian fighter jets sent to intercept British plane ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID * Re: Latest VMS BootCamp instructions forum
 OPC on VMS Re: OPC on VMS Re: The Soul of a New Machine  Re: The Soul of a New Machine  Re: The Soul of a New Machine  Re: The Soul of a New Machine  Re: The Soul of a New Machine  Re: The Soul of a New Machine % Re: VMS API (possible unix emulation)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:31:25 -0400 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com>  Subject: Re: a sad day, Message-ID: <ddudnUfVSZG3LT3fRVn-rA@rcn.net>  O I regret Terry's passing. He made valuable contributions to promote the welfare N of VMS and of his colleagues and deserves to be remembered when the history of. these systems and their technology is written.   Glenn Everhart     Keith A. Lewis wrote:  > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes in article <429FA633.92D22328@comcast.net> dated Thu, 02 Jun 2005 19:37:07 -0500:  > $ >>susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: >>	 >>>Folks,  >>> J >>>If you go to his web site and read this article it explains a lot about! >>>what he had been going through D >>>http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=05/05/25/6716036 >>> 7 >>>I am sorry that I can not really talk about this yet  >>>sue >> >>We all understand... >  > K > I'm not so sure we do, David.  Susan might know more than the rest of us.  > N > Clinical depression is normally fatal via suicide, right?  Nobody has postedM > a link to an obituary.  I'm not suggesting that anybody who knows something H > in confidence should speak out, but maybe if Charlie's local newspaper% > printed something we should know...  > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:09:12 -0400- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: a sad day7 Message-ID: <8660a3a105060315094c26a377@mail.gmail.com>   9 On 6/3/05, Keith A. Lewis <klewis@omega.mitre.org> wrote: L > David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes in article <429FA633.=< 92D22328@comcast.net> dated Thu, 02 Jun 2005 19:37:07 -0500:% > >susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:  > >> > >> Folks,  > >>L > >> If you go to his web site and read this article it explains a lot abou= t # > >> what he had been going through H > >> http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=3D05/05/25/6716036 > >>9 > >> I am sorry that I can not really talk about this yet  > >> sue > >  > >We all understand...  >=20K > I'm not so sure we do, David.  Susan might know more than the rest of us.  >=20L > Clinical depression is normally fatal via suicide, right?  Nobody has pos= ted L > a link to an obituary.  I'm not suggesting that anybody who knows somethi= ngH > in confidence should speak out, but maybe if Charlie's local newspaper% > printed something we should know...  >=202 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. >=20  A Methinks the manner of his life is a more appropriate subject for 5 discussion at this time than the manner of his death.    WWWebb   --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 18:33:51 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: a sad day, Message-ID: <42A0DACF.C3DDFF70@teksavvy.com>   William Webb wrote: C > Methinks the manner of his life is a more appropriate subject for 7 > discussion at this time than the manner of his death.   F I agree. No matter how his last few years were, no matter how he died,H he still made an invaluable contribution over MANY years to VMS and thisG cannot be forgotten. It is best to remember someone in his heydays than  someone in his sunset.   Can someone fill his shoes ?   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 05:36:11 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: a sad day$ Message-ID: <d7rekb$d2k$1@online.de>  5 In article <42A07C85.58D90470@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    L > > To me, the saddest part was that he wrote that he couldn't afford health > > insurance.   > J > No, the saddest part is that the VMS marketplace had shrunk/changed to aJ > point where he was no longer making enough money to live at a reasonable > comfort level.    I That can happen to many people.  It is possible for people to lose their  G job through no fault of their own.  True, it's sad, but it really adds  D insult to injury if such a loss results in not being able to afford : health insurance, and hence perhaps even results in death.  H > Even where medical care is given to all citizens, you still need moneyI > to survive. Without money, it is hard to maintain friendships since you E > can't really participate in any of their activities. And you end up . > alone even if your body is physically sound.  G Of course, that's the purpose of unemployment insurance and, when that  E expires, welfare.  In many countries, the level is determined by the  I amount necessary to "participate in society".  Yes, it costs money, paid  F for by those who work.  Yes, they would, at least at first, have more F money if they didn't have to pay for it.  However, I would rather pay I higher taxes than see people be shut out of society and perhaps even die  I just because they lose their job.  And, in the long run, it doesn't even  I more money for those still working, since many people will turn to crime  G when there is no other way.  I'm sure it costs more to support someone  G in jail than on welfare (and the U.S. is in the top 5 countries in the  < world with respect to percentage of the population in jail).   ------------------------------  , Date: Fri,  3 Jun 2005 22:43:09 +0200 (CEST)/ From: remailer@userbeam.net (Userbeam Remailer) E Subject: Re: Canadian fighter jets intercept pedo psychopath mrtravel ; Message-ID: <68f2617e7a2ab21bf32cb4180d07b0e9@userbeam.net>   B Recently fired Cisco pedophile/psychopath Michael Voight "mrtravel! <mrtravel@sbcglobal.net>" kooked:    >Nomen Nescio wrote:1 >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4607657.stm  >>  D >> "North American Aerospace Defense Command Lt Cmdr Sean Kelly saidG >> Canadian fighter jets escorted the plane to Halifax, where it landed 	 >> safely  >> at 1539 BST.  >>  I >> Canadian military officials confirmed that two CF-18s from Bagotville, 
 >> Quebec,& >> were sent to intercept the flight." >>  C >> Ooh, Quebec ... let's see how Mezei defends his country, and his  >> *province* no less,? >> getting involved in "the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld axis of evil".  >>   > @ >If you actually blah blah blah troll troll troll kook kook kook  O >What does this have to do with blah blah blah troll troll troll kook kook kook    ***SMACK!!!***   Fuck off and die, pedo kook.   Frequently Asked Questions   About    Michael Voight  $ The "mrtravel" psychopath of Usenet.   (Last Revised May 15, 2005)   = [He's been recently fired, but Cisco asks that you keep those C complaints coming, they're collecting them for legal action against  him.]    1.  Who is Michael Voight?  C Michael Voight is a troll, netkook, pedophile, psychopath/sociopath C who has been trolling usenet, flooding and spamming newsgroups, and  harassing posters for decades.  A 2.  This guy sounds dangerous!  Does he post under his real name?  Most trolls and netkooks don't!   E Correct.  He usually posts as "mrtravel", an idiotic alias he came up B with to disguise his psychopathic self.  He trolled under his realF name for years (he's not the brightest bulb), until people got sick of< his trolling, kooking, flooding, and harassment, and started@ complaining to his ISP and his employer, Cisco.  As a result, he? stopped using his real name and switched to "mrtravel" and many  variations thereof.     3.  Why did he chose "mrtravel"?  C Because the idiot fancies himself some sort of authority on travel. F And because his main trolling/kooking home base is rec.travel.air and,3 from time to time, other travel related newsgroups.   D 4.  Does he have other aliases?  Most trolls and netkooks have lots.  F Yes, he has no shortage of trolling/kooking aliases.  See the appendix below for many of them.    5.  Where does he live?    Michael D. Voight  111 Bean Creek Rd, No. 118 Scotts Valley,  CA  95066-4148 (831) 438-2485 mrtravel@sbcglobal.net   6.  Where does he work?   D At Cisco Systems in Scotts Valley, CA, in their Technical Assistance Center, doing tech support.   - His work e-mail address is mvoight@cisco.com.   6 The e-mail address of his department is tac@cisco.com.  C 7.  You mean a serious company like Cisco would hire scum like him?   C Well, technically they didn't recruit him.  He came as baggage when A they acquired the company he used to work for, TGV Software.  His F e-mail address there used to be mvoight@tgv.com and you can still read3 some of his early troll posts under that address at  http://groups.google.com.   A 8.  They can't possibly be happy with this guy if he is doing all - these things!  Do they know what he is up to?   F Oh yeah, they know.  They are investigating him and word is he will be fired shortly.  C 10.  If they are about to fire him, they must have a lot of dirt on  him.  What else has he done?  D Well, apart from spending over a decade trolling and flooding usenetF newsgroups and harassing posters and nitpicking their posts endlessly,@ all day long from work, and all night long from home, he is also involved in a series of crimes.    11.  Crimes too?  ? Yep, he's been preying on children in the pen pal and personals C newsgroups for many years.  He himself has admitted that the police E are investigating him for pedophilia and for being a sexual predator.   E 12.  That's disgusting!  I hope this child molester isn't married and 
 has children!   C That's the sad part.  He's been married many times and has children  all over the place.   C 13.  What is this loser's problem?  Why has he been married so many  times?  @ Well, if it isn't obvious already, this guy has major mental andF social problems.  He fits the classical definition of a psychopath andF sociopath.  A sociopath is simply a psychopath who acts in anti-social0 ways, usually committing crimes against society.  C This psychopath/sociopath has been in trouble with the law since he > was very young.  He has publicly admitted that he grew up in aB Catholic orphanage in Philadelphia where he had major disciplinaryD problems, culminating in running away several times and dropping outA of high school twice.  He has posted that during his teens he was E placed under the care of the courts, which ordered him to finish high C school.  As soon as he finished, he tried to join the military, but B all major branches of the military rejected him, not surprisingly,E except the Marines, who as we all know, take in the dregs of society.   C There he proceeded to start spreading his obviously defective seed, 8 marrying women and scattering children around the globe.  C 14.  That is scary!  What kind of woman would want to be with a guy 
 like this?  C Not very decent ones, as you can imagine.  Mostly drifters, whores, B alcoholics, drug junkies, and other failures like him.  That's whyB he's had to turn to importing his women from Eastern Europe, since= even the lowest of the low at home are not interested in him.    15.  Eastern Europe?  D Yep, he's found a little gold mine selling green cards to women fromB Eastern Europe, mostly Russia, who want to move to the U.S.  TheseC women, commonly known as Russian mail order brides, count on losers E like "mrtravel" who can't get women at home, and use them as stepping D stones to migrate to the U.S.  Once they get their green cards, they? usually leave the guy and proceed to help their old boyfriends, 3 lovers, or husbands migrate from Russia to the U.S.   ? He has been hanging out in alt.visa.us.marriage-based for years F swapping stories and information on how to defraud the U.S. governmentD with other criminals involved in the same illegal immigration scams.  C 16.  Serves him right if she leaves him!  How many children does he  have?   F Who knows?!  He won't admit to how many, only that he has several withC his first wife from his days in the Marines, who are now grown, and D several younger ones with more recent wives.  He says he has a youngE daughter in the Los Angeles area whom he visits almost every weekend. < He has been accused of molesting her, and the police and the' appropriate agencies are investigating.   B 17.  This guy is absolute scum, total trash!  How does he get awayD with all of this?  And shouldn't his employer have fired him by now?  E Both his employer and various law enforcement and government agencies E are investigating him.  But it takes time to gather the evidence, and F they must protect themselves very well.  Kooks, pedophiles, criminals,E and psychopaths/sociopaths like Michael Voight are known for bringing D lots of frivolous lawsuits and tying up the court systems for years,E so they must really be meticulous in collecting their evidence during  their investigations.   > 18.  Why does his employer tolerate him using company time and, resources to troll usenet and harass others?  A Cisco Systems has a very liberal policy on employee Internet use, ? which unfortunately does get abused from time to time by psycho  employees like Voight.  D 19.  What can I do?  I really don't think this guy should be allowedD to troll and flood usenet newsgroups and harass others, much less on( company time!  How can I help stop this?  = You can contact his ISP and his employer.  Contact his ISP by 4 e-mailing abuse@prodigy.net and abuse@sbcglobal.net.  B See the appendix below for Information on contacting his employer.  ? 20.  Do you think his employer will do anything?  Do they care?   D Oh, they do care!  Absolutely they care.  They are watching him veryE closely.  All the executives know about him and are watching him like F a hawk and monitoring his computer use and collecting evidence for his termination.  @ That is why it is so important that people keep sending in thoseC complaints.  The more complaints about him they receive, the fatter " his termination file will be.  :-)     APPENDIX ONE  F Some of the aliases used by Michael Voight for trolling newsgroups and harassing other posters:   mrtravel mrtravel@sbcglobal.net  mrt <mrt@mrt.com>  mrtrav <mrtrav@mtr.mrt.trm>  mrtrav3 <mrtaa@aa.aa> ( mrraveltay <mrraveltay@me.igpay.atinlay> mrtravelkay <mrtravelkay@a.aa>. mtravelkay <a.a.a@aaa.aaa> and <""a.a\"@a,a,a>" Network Guy <networrk@doit.com.no>3 starrystarrynight <starrystarrynight@sbcglobal.net>   sleepydoc <sleepdoc@verizon.net> jlhunt <jlhunt@huntbros.com> Lost 5 of 8 <seeme@loveme.fun>& news.sf.sbcglobal.net <none@none.none> not-nomen <none@none.none>& UCLAisthebest <uclaisthebest@ucla.edd>& David Tanner <dtanner1256@dtanner.org> Jeff Davies <test@test.test>$ BobTheBuilder <noah@build.me.an.ark>( Bill Clarkj <bill@billclarkpresents.com>! nonomen <notnomen@notnomen.ed.ca>  Really Me <reallyme@gmail.com>$ JerseyGirl <jersey99788@hotmail.com>& Kathy Stoltz <kathystoltz@hotmail.com>) nothilaryduff <nothilaryduff@hotmail.com>  anon <anon@anon.anon>  anonymous anonymous@anon.anon  Merry Christmas anon@anon.anon MyNewServer Comcast Yes@me.xxxx ) I Love YOU Iloveyou@melovesyoutoo.spamnot  and many, many others...     APPENDIX TWO  A How to contact Cisco to complain about Michael Voight "mrtravel":   7 Technical Assistance Center (TAC) in Scotts Valley, CA: 
 tac@cisco.com    Cisco Systems, Inc.  170 West Tasman Dr.  San Jose, CA 95134
 (408)526-4000  (800)553-NETS or
 (800)553-6387    John Morgridge, Chairman Phone: (408) 526-8229  Fax: (408) 526-4100  morgridg@cisco.com   John Chambers, President, CEO  Phone: (408) 526-8222  Fax: (408) 526-4100  chambers@cisco.com  9 Larry Carter, CFO, Sr. VP-Fin. and Admin., Sec., Director  Phone: (408) 526-8211  Fax: (408) 526-4100  Email: lcarter@cisco.com  3 Richard Justice, Sr. VP, Worldwide Field Operations  Phone: (408) 527-7371  Fax: (408) 526-4100  Email: justice@cisco.com  ? Brad Boston,Senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer  Phone: (408) 526-7008  Fax: (408) 526-8220  Email: bboston@cisco.com   Susan Lori Bostrom8 Senior Vice President, Internet Business Solutions Group Phone: (408) 527-5648  Fax: (408) 526-4100  Email: sbostrom@cisco.com    Howard S. Charney . Senior Vice President, Office of the President Phone: (408) 526-8300  Fax: (408) 526-4100  Email: charney@cisco.com  
 Kate DCamp& Senior Vice President, Human Resources Phone: (408) 527-9530  Fax: (408) 526-4100  Email: kdcamp@cisco.com    Gail Morales$ Manager, Human Resources, Employment Phone: (408) 527-6654  Fax: (408) 526-4100  Email: gmorales@cisco.com    Peggy Lynch  Employee Benefits  Phone: (408) 526-8859  Fax: (408) 527-6080  Email: plynch@cisco.com   
 Mario Mazzola 3 Senior Vice President and Chief Development Officer  Phone: (408) 526-5535  Fax: (408) 526-4100  Email: mazzola@cisco.com   Betsy Rafael' Vice President and Corporate Controller  Phone: (408) 525-0164  Fax: (408) 526-4100  Email: brafael@cisco.com   Claudia Ceniceros  Manager, Public Relations  Phone: (408) 525-4700  Fax: (408) 526-4100  Email: ccenicer@cisco.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 20:43:29 GMT S From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@earthlink.net> B Subject: Re: Canadian fighter jets sent to intercept British planeC Message-ID: <Rh3oe.13370$M36.7434@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>    Nomen Nescio wrote:   C > "North American Aerospace Defense Command Lt Cmdr Sean Kelly said F > Canadian fighter jets escorted the plane to Halifax, where it landed > safely > at 1539 BST. > H > Canadian military officials confirmed that two CF-18s from Bagotville,	 > Quebec, % > were sent to intercept the flight."  > B > Ooh, Quebec ... let's see how Mezei defends his country, and his > *province* no less, > > getting involved in "the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld axis of evil". >     J I bet he wet his panties when he learned of this...I bet even his foreskin went into "shields up" mode...   --   Best Greg    H > http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_q=bush&num=100&scoring=d&hl=enH > &as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_ugroup=&as_usubject=&as_uauthors=jf+mezei&lrH > &=&as_qdr=&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=31&as_ma > &xm=12&as_maxy=2005&safe=off > H > http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_q=usa&num=100&scoring=d&hl=en&H > as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_ugroup=&as_usubject=&as_uauthors=jf+mezei&lr=H > &as_qdr=&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=31&as_maxm > &=12&as_maxy=2005&safe=off > H > http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_q=bush&num=100&scoring=d&hl=enH > &as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_ugroup=rec.travel.air&as_usubject=&as_uauthoH > &rs=nobody&lr=&as_qdr=&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_m* > &axd=31&as_maxm=12&as_maxy=2005&safe=off > H > http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_q=bush&num=100&scoring=d&hl=enH > &as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_ugroup=rec.travel.air&as_usubject=&as_uauthoH > &rs=nobody&lr=&as_qdr=&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_m* > &axd=31&as_maxm=12&as_maxy=2005&safe=off > H > http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?as_q=&num=100&scoring=d&hl=en&as_H > epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_ugroup=sci.space.*&as_usubject=&as_uauthors=johnH > +doe&lr=&as_qdr=&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=31# > &as_maxm=12&as_maxy=2005&safe=off  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:24:23 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID, Message-ID: <XIqdnTMxC9roMz3fRVn-tw@igs.net>   Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: 5 >> On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 06:30:40 +0200, Karsten Nyblad   >> <nospam@nospam.nospam> wrote: >> >>> Dr. Dweeb wrote:E >>>> (a) He was syrian born canuck. (b) The US heisted him and posted B >>>> him back to Syria with a "terrorist" label.  (c) The Syrians, >>>> being so concerned F >>>> about the rise in international terrorism and wanting to do their> >>>> bit to curtail its evil spread, "tortured" this guy.  (d) >>>> Eventually, having "made F >>>> him talk" the Syrians posted him back to Canada as damaged goods.# >>>>  Is that the correct sequence? , >>>>  Its the (c) that I fail to understand. >>> F >>> What is it find so difficult to understand.  It is well known that? >>> USA in the later years have been flying people suspected of 6 >>> terrorism to countries known to torture prisoners. >>; >> That's because it is illegal to do so in the USA  ...TIC  > ) > I have not followed any of this, so ...  > F > the Syrians tortued him on behalf of the Americans, or the Americans: > tortured him under the protective hands of the Syrians ?G > I was not aware that Syria had become an ally in the "war on terror". . > And just what did this "torture" consist of?    G As I recollect reading it was beatings, sleep deprivation, manacling in * painful positions, denial of food, etc....  I As to whose hands actually did the torturing, Syrians acting on behalf of D their own government, Syrians acting on behalf of the US government,L Americans of Syrian descent acting on behalf of the US government, or othersH with other motives - that is unclear and may not ever be known with 100%
 certainty.     --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 21:22:28 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID= Message-ID: <42a0ae05$0$67264$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Dr. Dweeb wrote:J > The latest obsession with torture is sort of interesting.  In denmark a J > miltary person is being court marshalled for having denied a detainee a H > glass of water in a single instance during an interrogation - this is L > torture by definition apparently - and a professional soldier's career is L > going to end.  So pulling out toenails, sticking bamboo sticks into small H > bodily orifices and other such things we normally call torture is not I > necessary for toture these days, in fact every parent in the world has  G > "tortured" their children at some stage according to the new liberal   > definitions.  @ The allegations are more severe than that.  According to Danish H soldiers, the prisoners were forced to sit in positions that makes your E legs hurt the entire night, and during the same period denied water,  G blankets to protect them from the cold night, and going to the toilet.  E I would not be surprised if the Annemette Hommel and the four people  D from the military police get convicted, but I doubt they will get a I severe sentence in part because the colonel did nothing to stop it, when  % he was informed on what was going on.   F Annemette Hommel now has a position in the Danish Ministry of Foreign 0 Affairs, the Danish version of State Department.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:33:14 +02003 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID= Message-ID: <42a0b07a$0$78281$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > Dr. Dweeb wrote:@ >> The latest obsession with torture is sort of interesting.  InG >> denmark a miltary person is being court marshalled for having denied = >> a detainee a glass of water in a single instance during an C >> interrogation - this is torture by definition apparently - and a A >> professional soldier's career is going to end.  So pulling out B >> toenails, sticking bamboo sticks into small bodily orifices andB >> other such things we normally call torture is not necessary forF >> toture these days, in fact every parent in the world has "tortured"< >> their children at some stage according to the new liberal >> definitions.  > A > The allegations are more severe than that.  According to Danish D > soldiers, the prisoners were forced to sit in positions that makesD > your legs hurt the entire night, and during the same period deniedG > water, blankets to protect them from the cold night, and going to the G > toilet. I would not be surprised if the Annemette Hommel and the four F > people from the military police get convicted, but I doubt they willG > get a severe sentence in part because the colonel did nothing to stop 0 > it, when he was informed on what was going on. > G > Annemette Hommel now has a position in the Danish Ministry of Foreign 2 > Affairs, the Danish version of State Department.  L Thanks for the update - I was not following so closely  as I was out of the ( country while the headlines were flying.   Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:40:57 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID( Message-ID: <42A0C059.45881487@mist.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  > O > In article <429E10A4.174710A0@mist.com>, GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> writes:  > >JF Mezei wrote: > >> > >> Dave Froble wrote:  > >> >  War, bad as it is, is I > >> > one thing.  Killing thousands (or more) people for whatever reason + > >> > requires a total disregard for life.  > >>& > >> One needs to better define "war". > >>H > >> What the USA has done in Iraq was not war. It was an unprovoked andF > >> illegal attack that killed far more iraqis and destroyed far more: > >> infrastructure than what happened in the USA on 9-11. > > > > >But it was provoked, but not by what the media has reported) > >or what Bush had spoke publicly about. ? > >When Nixon got the US off the Gold standard in 1972, he also = > >made sure that the dollar was propped up by something else ; > >instead of gold... oil.  He made sure that all oil sales 9 > >were done in US Dollars.  The first gulf war irritated = > >Saddam, so in revenge, Saddam was going to use the Euro as > > >the standard instead of the dollar.  If he had done so, the> > >US economy would be in shambles and everyone in soup lines. > % > Please provide references for this. L > I would not have thought that Saddam would have had any power to influenceN > this. Ignoring the fact that sanctions meant Saddam was not in a position toM > sell oil except through the UN oil for food program. Any decision to switch L > from using the Dollar to using the Euro to price oil would presumably have: > had to have been supported by all OPEC member countries. >   ; You won't find this info on the web anywhere.  I worked for < the U.S. Gov. during that time and I knew about Iraq foreign; policy back in 1970.  There are plenty of references tho on : Nixon jumping off the Gold standard in 1972.  Gold and Oil, are pretty much top of the line commodities.6 From where it stands now, it looks like the lack of an< European Union constitution takes the teeth out of the Euro.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:07:49 -0400- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID7 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050603150773f2d1d9@mail.gmail.com>   - On 6/3/05, John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  > Dr. Dweeb wrote: > > Tom Linden wrote: 7 > >> On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 06:30:40 +0200, Karsten Nyblad " > >> <nospam@nospam.nospam> wrote: > >> > >>> Dr. Dweeb wrote:G > >>>> (a) He was syrian born canuck. (b) The US heisted him and posted D > >>>> him back to Syria with a "terrorist" label.  (c) The Syrians, > >>>> being so concerned H > >>>> about the rise in international terrorism and wanting to do their@ > >>>> bit to curtail its evil spread, "tortured" this guy.  (d) > >>>> Eventually, having "made H > >>>> him talk" the Syrians posted him back to Canada as damaged goods.% > >>>>  Is that the correct sequence? . > >>>>  Its the (c) that I fail to understand. > >>> H > >>> What is it find so difficult to understand.  It is well known thatA > >>> USA in the later years have been flying people suspected of 8 > >>> terrorism to countries known to torture prisoners. > >>= > >> That's because it is illegal to do so in the USA  ...TIC  > > + > > I have not followed any of this, so ...  > > H > > the Syrians tortued him on behalf of the Americans, or the Americans< > > tortured him under the protective hands of the Syrians ?I > > I was not aware that Syria had become an ally in the "war on terror". 0 > > And just what did this "torture" consist of? >=20 >=20I > As I recollect reading it was beatings, sleep deprivation, manacling in , > painful positions, denial of food, etc.... >=20K > As to whose hands actually did the torturing, Syrians acting on behalf of F > their own government, Syrians acting on behalf of the US government,L > Americans of Syrian descent acting on behalf of the US government, or oth= ers J > with other motives - that is unclear and may not ever be known with 100% > certainty. >=20 >=20 > --H > OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV > base.  >=20 >=20 >=20  4 Hey, you can't blame the government for outsourcing.  E Do you know how much a good domestic torture expert costs these days? 4 Most of the experienced ones are long since retired.   WWW    --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 18:26:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID, Message-ID: <42A0D90B.78E45A22@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote: K > As to whose hands actually did the torturing, Syrians acting on behalf of F > their own government, Syrians acting on behalf of the US government,N > Americans of Syrian descent acting on behalf of the US government, or othersJ > with other motives - that is unclear and may not ever be known with 100% > certainty.    F Do americans deny arresting a senior VP of a large california databaseG software company when he showed up to the immigration office because he E had heard that non citizens needed additional pieces of paper even if C they were legally in the USA. He was arrested on the spot (seems he F showed up a few days late), sent to a southern california prison whereG he stayed with 12 other people in a cell with lights on 24 hours a day, G no access to lawyers or a phone call. His office wondered where he was. H His family wondered what had happened to him, and his card, which he hadC parked for what he thought would be just half an hour to check with * immigration officials was towed away ?????  C (and yes, he was canadian wuith full paper working in the USA, with . house and family firmly installed in the USA.)  E Are americans aware that following a spate of such incidents, Amnisty @ International started to post volunteers at the entrance of eachG immigration offiice to take down the person's contacts so that AI could F contact the families should the person not emerge from the immigration office ?  G Yes, Amnisty International having to defend human rights from abuses by ? USA authorities. And your government has the gall to tell other " countries to respect human rights.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:37:32 -0400- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID7 Message-ID: <8660a3a10506031737639c9e8f@mail.gmail.com>   9 On 6/3/05, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  > John Smith wrote: L > > As to whose hands actually did the torturing, Syrians acting on behalf = ofH > > their own government, Syrians acting on behalf of the US government,L > > Americans of Syrian descent acting on behalf of the US government, or o= thers L > > with other motives - that is unclear and may not ever be known with 100= %  > > certainty. >=20 >=20H > Do americans deny arresting a senior VP of a large california databaseI > software company when he showed up to the immigration office because he G > had heard that non citizens needed additional pieces of paper even if E > they were legally in the USA. He was arrested on the spot (seems he H > showed up a few days late), sent to a southern california prison whereI > he stayed with 12 other people in a cell with lights on 24 hours a day, I > no access to lawyers or a phone call. His office wondered where he was. J > His family wondered what had happened to him, and his card, which he hadE > parked for what he thought would be just half an hour to check with , > immigration officials was towed away ????? >=20E > (and yes, he was canadian wuith full paper working in the USA, with 0 > house and family firmly installed in the USA.) >=20G > Are americans aware that following a spate of such incidents, Amnisty B > International started to post volunteers at the entrance of eachI > immigration offiice to take down the person's contacts so that AI could H > contact the families should the person not emerge from the immigration
 > office ? >=20I > Yes, Amnisty International having to defend human rights from abuses by A > USA authorities. And your government has the gall to tell other $ > countries to respect human rights. >=20  F I usually avoid these threads like the plague but cannot allow this to go without comment:   D Amnesty International's implication of a [blatantly false, to anyoneD who has half a wit about them] moral equivalence between the horrorsE of the Soviet-era gulags and what went on in Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib E is an insult to not only the millions of victims [and their families] D of the Soviet state security apparatus, but is also an insult to the: intelligence of anyone who is conversant with the works of Solzhenitsyn or Sharansky.  H It's about as reasonable as equating panties on the head with beheading.   WWWebb --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jun 2005 17:56:57 -0700 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional IDC Message-ID: <1117846617.729501.308820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > John Smith wrote: M > > As to whose hands actually did the torturing, Syrians acting on behalf of H > > their own government, Syrians acting on behalf of the US government,P > > Americans of Syrian descent acting on behalf of the US government, or othersL > > with other motives - that is unclear and may not ever be known with 100% > > certainty. >  > H > Do americans deny arresting a senior VP of a large california database    > That's Americans, not americans. You even capitalize Bush over
 Americans.  @ And I noticed that Nomen seems to be increasing his posts in covE lately. Maybe this thread has something to do with it. Coincidence? I  suspect not!  . Thanks JF, for attracting more Nomen nonsense.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:12:54 +02003 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID= Message-ID: <42a10e29$0$78285$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    William Webb wrote: ; > On 6/3/05, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  >> John Smith wrote:C >>> As to whose hands actually did the torturing, Syrians acting on F >>> behalf of their own government, Syrians acting on behalf of the USF >>> government, Americans of Syrian descent acting on behalf of the USF >>> government, or others with other motives - that is unclear and may* >>> not ever be known with 100% certainty. >> >>@ >> Do americans deny arresting a senior VP of a large californiaA >> database software company when he showed up to the immigration B >> office because he had heard that non citizens needed additional? >> pieces of paper even if they were legally in the USA. He was G >> arrested on the spot (seems he showed up a few days late), sent to a G >> southern california prison where he stayed with 12 other people in a F >> cell with lights on 24 hours a day, no access to lawyers or a phoneG >> call. His office wondered where he was. His family wondered what had A >> happened to him, and his card, which he had parked for what he ? >> thought would be just half an hour to check with immigration ! >> officials was towed away ?????  >>F >> (and yes, he was canadian wuith full paper working in the USA, with1 >> house and family firmly installed in the USA.)  >>H >> Are americans aware that following a spate of such incidents, AmnistyC >> International started to post volunteers at the entrance of each D >> immigration offiice to take down the person's contacts so that AIC >> could contact the families should the person not emerge from the  >> immigration office ?  >>G >> Yes, Amnisty International having to defend human rights from abuses E >> by USA authorities. And your government has the gall to tell other % >> countries to respect human rights.  >> > H > I usually avoid these threads like the plague but cannot allow this to > go without comment:  > F > Amnesty International's implication of a [blatantly false, to anyoneF > who has half a wit about them] moral equivalence between the horrorsG > of the Soviet-era gulags and what went on in Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib G > is an insult to not only the millions of victims [and their families] F > of the Soviet state security apparatus, but is also an insult to the< > intelligence of anyone who is conversant with the works of > Solzhenitsyn or Sharansky. > ? > It's about as reasonable as equating panties on the head with  > beheading. >    Touch !   Dweeb    (see previous post) 	 > WWWebb     ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:20:39 +02003 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID= Message-ID: <42a10ff9$0$78280$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    GreyCloud wrote:! > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  >>5 >> In article <429E10A4.174710A0@mist.com>, GreyCloud  >> <cumulus@mist.com> writes:  >>> JF Mezei wrote:  >>>> >>>> Dave Froble wrote:  >>>>>  War, bad as it is, isH >>>>> one thing.  Killing thousands (or more) people for whatever reason* >>>>> requires a total disregard for life. >>>>& >>>> One needs to better define "war". >>>>H >>>> What the USA has done in Iraq was not war. It was an unprovoked andF >>>> illegal attack that killed far more iraqis and destroyed far more: >>>> infrastructure than what happened in the USA on 9-11. >>> ? >>> But it was provoked, but not by what the media has reported * >>> or what Bush had spoke publicly about.@ >>> When Nixon got the US off the Gold standard in 1972, he also> >>> made sure that the dollar was propped up by something else< >>> instead of gold... oil.  He made sure that all oil sales: >>> were done in US Dollars.  The first gulf war irritated> >>> Saddam, so in revenge, Saddam was going to use the Euro as? >>> the standard instead of the dollar.  If he had done so, the ? >>> US economy would be in shambles and everyone in soup lines.  >>& >> Please provide references for this.C >> I would not have thought that Saddam would have had any power to D >> influence this. Ignoring the fact that sanctions meant Saddam wasC >> not in a position to sell oil except through the UN oil for food E >> program. Any decision to switch from using the Dollar to using the E >> Euro to price oil would presumably have had to have been supported   >> by all OPEC member countries. >> > = > You won't find this info on the web anywhere.  I worked for > > the U.S. Gov. during that time and I knew about Iraq foreign= > policy back in 1970.  There are plenty of references tho on < > Nixon jumping off the Gold standard in 1972.  Gold and Oil. > are pretty much top of the line commodities.8 > From where it stands now, it looks like the lack of an> > European Union constitution takes the teeth out of the Euro.  J I would think that the the almost total lack of support for the "European E Constituation" takes the teesth out of the EUR.  Well, that plus the  K decrepit stat of France and Germany, the French and Dustch "NO/NON" votes,  K the expected no in DK, and plenty of other bits and pieces too numerous to   mention besides.  D For the unenlightened, I suggest any brave soul attempt to read the ? gobbeldygook that european politicians are trying to sell as a  I "constitution" and compare it with the documents upon which your country  K bases its legal apparatus.  Form your own conclusion!  And after that, try  M reading the Koran, the most inpenetrable document in human history, and just   as useless.   J As someone who, in moments of inexplicable masochistic urges, can validly E claim to have read the entire Maastrict, Amsterdam and "constituton"  L documents, I can say offer the following advice. Do not bother.  Looks like @ shit, smells like shit and is absolutely and unequivocally shit.  
 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 06:32:41 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID= Message-ID: <42a12f04$0$67260$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Dr. Dweeb wrote:L > I would think that the the almost total lack of support for the "European G > Constituation" takes the teesth out of the EUR.  Well, that plus the  M > decrepit stat of France and Germany, the French and Dustch "NO/NON" votes,  M > the expected no in DK, and plenty of other bits and pieces too numerous to   > mention besides.  I The referendum in Denmark is not lost yet.  The have been 4 pools giving  F a majority for no in Denmark after the French and Dutch no, but until @ then there have solid majorities for yes.  However, the British E referendum will be very difficult to win, because the British people  ; have never really been that keen of being a part of Europe.   F > For the unenlightened, I suggest any brave soul attempt to read the A > gobbeldygook that european politicians are trying to sell as a  K > "constitution" and compare it with the documents upon which your country  M > bases its legal apparatus.  Form your own conclusion!  And after that, try  O > reading the Koran, the most inpenetrable document in human history, and just  
 > as useless.  > L > As someone who, in moments of inexplicable masochistic urges, can validly G > claim to have read the entire Maastrict, Amsterdam and "constituton"  N > documents, I can say offer the following advice. Do not bother.  Looks like B > shit, smells like shit and is absolutely and unequivocally shit.  B Dr. Dweeb's description of the constitution is right.  The Danish D version is 349 pages of text, that can only be read if you have the I reading skills for reading fairly complex texts.  Here is a like for the  % English version, that is even longer:   ? http://www.unizar.es/euroconstitucion/Treaties/Treaty_Const.htm    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 07:48:03 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> 3 Subject: Re: Latest VMS BootCamp instructions forum 3 Message-ID: <42a14096$0$4836$636a15ce@news.free.fr>     VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  H > You should toss the Mickey$haft PeeCee laptop and get a Mac!  Then you% > wouldn't have to worry about these.   C I *do* have a iBook G5 but I'm not very familiar with OS X yet and  E thought it would be difficult to connect to the Windaube network via  ! Bluetooth or Ethernet, you see...    So, I'll bring both :-)    D.  G PS: SAM (Symantec Antivirus for Macintosh) does not exist anymore, and  G to my opinion Norton for Mac is only a good marketing campaing result,  H without any use but spending money stupidely. Look at the forums on NAV . for Mac and you'll see no activity since 2001.     --  1 Didier MORANDI - Expert informaticien - VMS / SAP 0   13 chemin du Gu, 1213 Petit-Lancy (GE) Suisse0 Tl. : +33(0)6 7983 6418 ~ www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jun 2005 13:39:19 -0700 ' From: "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com>  Subject: OPC on VMS C Message-ID: <1117831159.487579.217700@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   ; I may need to integerate OPC into a legacy VMS application.   C I need to get data from an OPC system.  read and write data points.   A 1. Are there any inexpensive OPC clients for VMS?  Any experience B with clients?  I find some list of available clients with I search- this group, but I don't know much about them.   = 2. Is it realistic to roll my own limited-function interface?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:34:59 +0200) From: "Jean Mertens" <jmertens@skynet.be>  Subject: Re: OPC on VMS 4 Message-ID: <42a13d96$0$324$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>   HI,   K I've the same need and have not been able to locate any OPC client for VMS. L One additional need I've is to have the OPC client to react on un-sollicited! input ( Asynchronous system trap) ? to capture event from external devices (PLC or DCS) OPC server. L The only solution I've been given has a PC in between the VMS and the server that acts as the client I and have the PC hooked via LAT/serial to the Vax/Alpha - Unacceptable for 1 process control knowin the "stability" of windows   < "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> a crit dans le message de= news:1117831159.487579.217700@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... = > I may need to integerate OPC into a legacy VMS application.  > E > I need to get data from an OPC system.  read and write data points.  > C > 1. Are there any inexpensive OPC clients for VMS?  Any experience D > with clients?  I find some list of available clients with I search/ > this group, but I don't know much about them.  > ? > 2. Is it realistic to roll my own limited-function interface?  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:59:58 GMT % From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> & Subject: Re: The Soul of a New Machine3 Message-ID: <slrnda16ku.h7o.rivie@Stench.no.domain>   \ On 2005-06-03, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote: > J > Eclipse, 32-bit follow-on to Nova.  Data General.  Roughly analogous to K > VAX as follow-on to PDP-11.  Nothing to do with stealing VMS.  Good book.   G Actually, Eclipse was a 16-bit follow-on to Nova. The book is about the = development of the Eclipse/MV, a 32-bit follow-on to Eclipse.  --  
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net http://anachronda.webhop.org/  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 
 Version: 3.12 H GCS/P d- s:+++ a+ C++ UB--(++++) !P L- !E W++ N++ o-- K w O- M+ V+++ PS+? PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X-- R tv++ b++ DI+++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ z+++   ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 19:07:31 GMT ) From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.REMOVE.ab.ca> & Subject: Re: The Soul of a New Machine9 Message-ID: <Xns966A8584D3023falkarcabca@198.161.157.145>   6 "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> wrote in6 news:42a05031$0$78284$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk:    > Bob Willard wrote: >> O'Brien Paddy wrote:  >>> <-----Original Message-----  >>> <From: Campbell David  >>> <Sent: Fri 6/3/2005 5:51 PM  >>> <To: O'Brien Paddy' >>> <Subject: The Soul of a New Machine  >>> <Paddy, A >>> <A friend of mine in the IT industry mentioned a book called:  >>> <The Soul of a New Machine >>> <by Tracy Kidder >>> < H >>> <He mentioned it was out of print but there are used ones on sale at >>> Amazon.com.  >>> < F >>> <I gather it is about how a company stole VMS and used it in their >>> own product. >>> < ) >>> <Have you heard of this story before?  >>> / >>> Well, I haven't.  Does anyone know of this?  >>>  > A > Its a good account of an impressive engineering project at Data F > General developing their Eclipse line.  I read the book when it came > out - an excellent read. > F >  believe the "stealing of VMS" alludes to an incident in the process	 >  where  H > they buy a VAX 780 and pull it to bits to see what is int it an make aE > determination of how much it would cost to build a similar machine.   H IIRC, they weren't able to buy one in a hurry, but DG's project manager I was able to look at one of the first VAX installations surreptitiously.   D Board and chip counts were the most important cost drivers, so this 9 knowledge was important for planning a competing product.   H > If you are a project manager, there are plentyu of good insights to be) > had about some pretty good engineering.  >  > Dr. Dweeb. >  >>> Regards, Paddy >>> E >> That book is about hardware, not software.  It is a history of the @ >> development of a new 32-bit architecture and hardware at Data >> General.   H IIRC software was incidental in the book.  However, the Eclipse MV/8000 H hardware and software architecture is very closely analogous to the VAX- 11/780. I One important difference: the Eclipse MV could run 16-bit AOS absolutely  C natively (so DG could start shipping even before 32-bit AOS/VS was  5 ready, whereas you could not boot RSX-11 on a VAX-11.   H >> An excellent read, IMHO; it does a great job of capturing the feeling1 >> of development in a high-pressure atmosphere.     Agreed.    --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4   http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jun 2005 19:21:55 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: The Soul of a New Machine+ Message-ID: <3gboujFbidctU1@individual.net>   3 In article <kZ1xC+PIXX3A@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:a > In article <NyWne.6412$CB3.2238@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: M >> Youngster.  Data General.  Next you'll tell me you don't remember Wang, or 
 >> Apollo. >  > Or Prime.   > The scary part of this thread is that while I have only worked> with Wang (I once had to fix a BASIC Football Game Program for< the engineering firm my brother worked at.  I guess business= was slow that year.)  I actually had an Apollo and a Prime in ; my personal collection  at various times.  The Apollo would ? easily warm te room it was in evenin the dead of a NEPA winter.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:10:24 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> & Subject: Re: The Soul of a New Machine, Message-ID: <DaCdnVLsj9ezNj3fRVn-1A@igs.net>   sol gongola wrote: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>= >> In article <NyWne.6412$CB3.2238@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" ' >> <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: E >>> Youngster.  Data General.  Next you'll tell me you don't remember  >>> Wang, or Apollo. >> >> Or Prime. >  > or bendix      Or Digital.  :-(   --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 22:24:50 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)& Subject: Re: The Soul of a New Machine6 Message-ID: <00A44BD8.D915537E@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  [ In article <slrnda16ku.h7o.rivie@Stench.no.domain>, Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> writes: ] >On 2005-06-03, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:  >>K >> Eclipse, 32-bit follow-on to Nova.  Data General.  Roughly analogous to  L >> VAX as follow-on to PDP-11.  Nothing to do with stealing VMS.  Good book. > H >Actually, Eclipse was a 16-bit follow-on to Nova. The book is about the> >development of the Eclipse/MV, a 32-bit follow-on to Eclipse.  O Thanks for the correction.  Haven't read the book in 20 years, and never worked D on either Eclipse or Nova.  (I was working on ModComps at the time.)   -- Alan    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 23:11:29 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>& Subject: Re: The Soul of a New Machine2 Message-ID: <Bs5oe.6479$J14.4169@news.cpqcorp.net>  H "Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>A wrote in message news:00A44BD8.D915537E@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU... @ > In article <slrnda16ku.h7o.rivie@Stench.no.domain>, Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> writes:  J > Thanks for the correction.  Haven't read the book in 20 years, and never workedF > on either Eclipse or Nova.  (I was working on ModComps at the time.)  - ModComp -- wow.  Loved the debug front panel.   E [As a really bizzare aside, I've always felt there was a market for a H  "front Panel".  Hook it up to a PCI slot, and flash cool lights for allC  kinds of stuff - heck, I'd pay for one on my PC, the disk LED just H  isn't cool.  If I could find a way to steal the IBM 360 front panel oneC  of the guys has in his cube...  in a hearbeat ;-)  And no, wasting >  CPU cycles updating a screen based front panel isn't as cool]  @ For those who never saw the debug front panel for a ModComp - itC allowed you to do things like trap when an address changes, and you E could even indicate which bits you cared about.  Way cool when trying C to chase a broken buffer address of zero (uh, yeah - physical) in a  pseudo O/S.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jun 2005 16:28:42 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) . Subject: Re: VMS API (possible unix emulation)3 Message-ID: <yTTojYJGIZ5s@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506031038490.22596@localhost.localdomain>, Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> writes: * > On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Ken Fairfield wrote: >  >> Not old.  No TFF. > & > $ HELP TFF says $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:TFU  K So apparently the complain is that RUN <programname> is an unclear command.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.309 ************************