1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 06 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 313       Contents:
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day # Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 2 # Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 2 # Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 2 # Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 2 # Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 2  DCL BAtch Job problem. Re: DCL BAtch Job problem. Re: DCL BAtch Job problem. Re: DCL BAtch Job problem. Re: DCL BAtch Job problem.< Re: Detached Process crash with unknown exit status 7B0017C0? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID   Re: Leo DiCaprio is Circumcised? Re: OPC on VMS [OT] When I'm sixty-one  Re: [OT] When I'm sixty-one   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 03:04:47 +02003 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com>  Subject: Re: a sad day= Message-ID: <42a3a141$0$67255$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Z wrote: > David J Dachtera wrote: G >>> Not to start a flame thread, but IIRC veterans have certain medical B >>> services provided free of charge by Uncle Sam via the Veterans8 >>> Administration (which Terry alluded to in his blog). > G >> Anyone with nay first hand experience with VA medical assistance can . >> attest to ... well, don't get me started... > 5 > That it's almost as bad as every other "free" plan.   I Like the free plan people have in countries like, well, denmark, germany   etc.   Dweeb    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2005 05:16:19 GMT 2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> Subject: Re: a sad day? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-m6N0JHTr1WVi@dave2_os2.home.ours>   C On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:44:21 UTC, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:    > Folks, > I > If you go to his web site and read this article it explains a lot about   > what he had been going throughC > http://www.shannonknowshpc.com/stories.php?story=05/05/25/6716036  > 6 > I am sorry that I can not really talk about this yet > sue   D Sorry to hear this. Thanks for the ref Sue. As I read it, and other F pages, I realised he was the same age as I. A colleague at work asked A me his age when I told hime of Terrry"s death. I'd guessed a bit  " higher. There but for the grace...   Rest in peace Terry.   --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 22:27:32 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam>  Subject: Re: a sad day* Message-ID: <39Roe.7167$K66.4324@fe02.lga>   Dr. Dweeb wrote:G >>>Anyone with nay first hand experience with VA medical assistance can . >>>attest to ... well, don't get me started...  5 >>That it's almost as bad as every other "free" plan.   K > Like the free plan people have in countries like, well, denmark, germany   > etc.  5 Is dying while waiting for treatment really worth it?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 01:48:09 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: a sad day, Message-ID: <42A3E390.1FCB8309@teksavvy.com>   Z wrote:L > > Like the free plan people have in countries like, well, denmark, germany > > etc. > 7 > Is dying while waiting for treatment really worth it?     F This reminds me of the days of Data General vs Digital in a bid. I wasG surprised to see how little each vendor really knew about the other and E how much unwarranted dirt was being thrown around to try to discredit 
 the other.  D Your government and profitable health care corporations always trashD foreign health care systems with exagerations such as the above. AndH those who haven't travelled much have no point of reference to judge theL validity of such statements so they become urban myths woespread in the USA.  H In reality, health care systems outside the USA, while far from perfect,C do provide better health care overall. Cuba is a very good example. O Health of Cubans is on average much better than health of americans on average.   D Governments have the ability to limit the percentage of GPD spent onF health care. In the USA, the health care providers want more customersG and want more spending on health care. But as a result, the USA is less H competitive worldwide because for every widget you try to export, it hasH a greater percentage of costs associated with helath care for employees.  G Consider the old establisehd employee intensive corporatiosn in the USA G (airlines, GM/Ford/Chrysler) who now find themselves having to pay huge ? sums of money to insure retrired employees who live longer than H predicted. Young airlines with essentially no retired employees enjoy an unfair advantage.   H With a national health care system, the costs are spread evenly, withoutD any unfair advantages given to some companies or others. And it doesH cover those self employed folks who could not afford similar care in theH USA.  However, generally, it is true that the USA provides easier accessG to truly bleeding edge medecine (but not always). Bear in mind that the G human body is pretty old and robust and when properly taken care of, it O stays in shape and good health and doesn't require so much health care support.   0 Prevention ends up costing a lot less than cure.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2005 18:11:28 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) , Subject: Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 23 Message-ID: <58W3M5J8JlCI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <Xns966BE81E3669Bdcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>, "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> writes:# > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, JF Mezei wrote in < > news:1117917685.d7936649c1b6de08a96e734f769f304a@teranews  > B >> CNET reports that on Monday, Apple will formally announce it isI >> switching to the 8086 platform from Intel, at first, with low end MACs / >> and later on, by 2007, with higher end ones. J >>> http://news.com.com/Apple+to+ditch+IBM%2C+switch+to+Intel+chips/2100-1% >>> 006_3-5731398.html?tag=nefd.lede   >  > <big snip> > I > This was brought up on slashdot.  It's a little more complex than just  K > assuming Apple will move to x86.  The situation is such that Apple could  9 > license PPC such that Intel could manufacture for them.  >    	Not a chance:  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23714   G The Intel chips are almost assuredly going to start with a mobile part, M probably Yonah, then on to Merom. Both use the same FSB technology, but Merom N is faster so the switch will be a fairly painless one. The markets pointed outJ by CNet back up the idea that Yonah will start it all off, then Conroe and; Woodcrest will take over. These sure are interesting times.    ---   ? 	It really is about mobile.  PowerPC has a lousy future in that C 	space (laptop parts).  It doesn't surprise me that Apple switched.    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:23:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 2, Message-ID: <42A39795.1A3E43A2@teksavvy.com>   Rob Young wrote:   H >         It really is about mobile.  PowerPC has a lousy future in thatL >         space (laptop parts).  It doesn't surprise me that Apple switched.    C Apple Laptops were very early adopters of wireless technology, well 0 before they became mainstream on wintel laptops.  C Intel's Centrino was late in getting support for 802.11G. They were E spending megabucks advertising their mobile technology on TV when the E later was years behind. Intel may be bragging lots about its wireless H technology, and Intel did rightly decide to focus on it because there isH a market, but integrating/marrketing it as part of the CPU is hogwash in my opinion.   E The tidbits has a good analysis of this issue. http://www.tidbits.com  look for the extra tidbits or ] directly to: http://emperor.tidbits.com/webx?14@211.9irqax1n2Kz.1@.3c4f5c5c!discloc=.3c68dcd8   G especially the link to: http://daringfireball.net/2005/06/see_you_intel     G Such a move to the 8086 would give Intel's architecture a huge monopoly B on the desktop with only niche markets left for sparc and powerpc.  C However, the new york times article makes a good point: Microsoft's G XBOX360, to be based on PowerPC will end up being a house entertainment G centre (TV, games, internet etc). And this is where Intel had hoped its C chips would go. So attracting Apple, the next contender in making a H viable home entertainment centre was logical for Intel if it ever wanted to capture some of that market.     E next big question: once VMS and MACOS are ported to the 8086, will HP C make a multiprocessor box that can have a galaxy style partitioning B where one could run MACOS alongside with VMS, have both cooperate,@ dynamic allocation of CPUs etc ? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-) :-) ;-)  F If Apple truly moves to an open hardware platform, will companies such> as Dell and HP sell MACOS based machines ? Or will Microsoft'sE stranglehold of those companies prevent them from selling MACOS based 
 machines ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:53:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 2, Message-ID: <42A39E9B.FBB28C06@teksavvy.com>  ? If the stories of Apple moving to the 8086 are true, it will be F interesting to see what sort of media opinions and corporate spin fromG HP will follow later with regards to IA64's fortunes (or lack thereof).   H Apple wouldn't be moving to the 8086 unless Intel gave it garantees thatG the 8086 will be competing against powerPC and others in the full range H of Apple products from laptop to large servers for at least 10 years. SoF the 8086 gets at least 10 years worth of garantees where Apple will be; able to compete against high end Power/Sparc based servers.   F And since in 2007 (such a magical year for Intel), not only will AppleG offer high end MACs based on the 8086, but the 8086 will also sport the C same system interfaces as IA64 enabling 8086 to be used in the same @ large scale enterprise systems, IA64's last stand. The 8086 will( eradicate any need for the IA64 in 2007.  D So the high end more and more belongs to the 8086. Apple wouldn't beE moving to the 8086 if Intel were to artificially restrict the 8086 to  give IA64 some breathing space.     G This coming week, during the VMS event would be a good time to announce F that VMS engineers are already busy porting VMS to the 8086, expectingH commercial release in 2007 and first boot in November 2005. (unless they7 already have a first boot done in the basement of ZKO).    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2005 20:21:22 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) , Subject: Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 23 Message-ID: <b$ip4X6c5cLl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <42A39795.1A3E43A2@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote: >   I >>         It really is about mobile.  PowerPC has a lousy future in that M >>         space (laptop parts).  It doesn't surprise me that Apple switched.  > I > Such a move to the 8086 would give Intel's architecture a huge monopoly D > on the desktop with only niche markets left for sparc and powerpc. >   A 	Nothing changes.  Gaining Apple means little to the breakdown.   G 	Apple makes up less than 2% of desktop share.  So who really cares if  C 	x86 gets the last 1.5%, how much does the desktop landscape shift?   @ 	The upside here from an Intel perspective, is Power is further C 	marginalized.  Power will be embedded and server.  Two segments.   E 	Intel can offer an end-to-end solution - embedded, mobile, desktop,  9 	server and a great incentive for large OEMs to go Intel.   * 	Forget about SPARC - won't be long now...  H > If Apple truly moves to an open hardware platform, will companies such- > as Dell and HP sell MACOS based machines ?    9 	Of course not.  Dell is about volume - MACOS is peanuts.    				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2005 23:35:29 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) , Subject: Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 23 Message-ID: <Lbw83ur7qPhM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <42A3ACBA.DBA9B31E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:I >>         Nothing changes.  Gaining Apple means little to the breakdown. P >>         Apple makes up less than 2% of desktop share.  So who really cares ifM >>         x86 gets the last 1.5%, how much does the desktop landscape shift?  > H > Apple's percentages notwidthsatnding, they are seen as a viable optionD > competing against Windows, preventing a total monopoly of windows.  E 	Not an option at all.  If in a breakdown, one competitor has a 1.5%  E 	marketshare and the other has a 90% marketshare (with miscellaneous  E 	making up the rest - whatever) - you can't say with a straight face  E 	that the 1.5% competitor is a viable option.  They are a leftover.   > 	Akin to SCO in the Unix space.  SCO is there - but who cares?  K >> > If Apple truly moves to an open hardware platform, will companies such / >> > as Dell and HP sell MACOS based machines ?  >>  C >>         Of course not.  Dell is about volume - MACOS is peanuts.  >  > I > If MACos runs on current DELL hardware, then it won't cost anything for J > DELL to sell MACOS or Linux based machines. Where it gets interesting isF > whether Apple will start to negotiate competetitive prices for MACOSJ > against the discounts that DELL/HP obtain by brownosing Bill gates. ThatS > would be a huge shift for Apple to be making. (essentially abandonning hardware).   7 	MACOS from Dell is nonsensical.  Such a small market - G 	the supporting infrastructure from a Dell perspective makes absolutely 6 	no business sense, therefore we know it won't happen.   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2005 18:37:03 -0700 & From: "Mister Q" <pquodling@gmail.com> Subject: DCL BAtch Job problem. B Message-ID: <1118021823.565581.49740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  E We have a number of batch jobs, that submit other batch jobs, and the E problem we encounter is that some time the "end" batch procedure gets  changed.  D i.e. master.com;42 submits backup.com to a batch queue and the queue entry looks like...   B MUMBLE  PRDGuy               Holding until  1-JUL-2005 00:30:00.00A          Submitted  1-JUN-2005 19:39:25.35 /KEEP /NOTIFY /NOPRINT 
 /PRIORITY=100 2          File: _$2$DRA1:[RUNTIME.COM]BACKUP.COM;15  ? Of course, if we need to change backup.com, it becomes ;16, our 9 autopurge removes ;15 and the batch job fails with a FNF.   E How do I stop the submit picking up the version? (Short of wrappering 3 it with another procedure which doesn't change...)     Q    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:55:45 -0400- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> # Subject: Re: DCL BAtch Job problem. 7 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050605195552d63f6d@mail.gmail.com>   C On 5 Jun 2005 18:37:03 -0700, Mister Q <pquodling@gmail.com> wrote: G > We have a number of batch jobs, that submit other batch jobs, and the G > problem we encounter is that some time the "end" batch procedure gets 
 > changed. >=20F > i.e. master.com;42 submits backup.com to a batch queue and the queue > entry looks like...  >=20D > MUMBLE  PRDGuy               Holding until  1-JUL-2005 00:30:00.00C >          Submitted  1-JUN-2005 19:39:25.35 /KEEP /NOTIFY /NOPRINT  > /PRIORITY=3D100 4 >          File: _$2$DRA1:[RUNTIME.COM]BACKUP.COM;15 >=20A > Of course, if we need to change backup.com, it becomes ;16, our ; > autopurge removes ;15 and the batch job fails with a FNF.  >=20G > How do I stop the submit picking up the version? (Short of wrappering 7 > it with another procedure which doesn't change...)=20  >=20 > Q  >=20 >=20  ! You're barking up the wrong tree.   A The queue manager doesn't referenced the file by its filespec, it  references it by FID.   F Suggestion 1 would be to have a "wrapper" batch job whose only purpose is to submitC BACKUP.COM;0 (which will always get the highest version number)  in * another batch job at the appropriate time.  D Suggestion 2 would be to put a policy in place to delete all pendingD batch jobs for a given file and resubmit them each time you edit the submitted .COM,   H Suggestion 3 would be to never, ever edit the files your batch jobs run.   (just kidding, hope this helps)    WWWebb     WWWebb --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2005 23:25:46 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) # Subject: Re: DCL BAtch Job problem. 3 Message-ID: <CSV1LIToRui3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <1118021823.565581.49740@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Mister Q" <pquodling@gmail.com> writes: G > We have a number of batch jobs, that submit other batch jobs, and the G > problem we encounter is that some time the "end" batch procedure gets 
 > changed. > F > i.e. master.com;42 submits backup.com to a batch queue and the queue > entry looks like...  > D > MUMBLE  PRDGuy               Holding until  1-JUL-2005 00:30:00.00C >          Submitted  1-JUN-2005 19:39:25.35 /KEEP /NOTIFY /NOPRINT  > /PRIORITY=100 4 >          File: _$2$DRA1:[RUNTIME.COM]BACKUP.COM;15 > A > Of course, if we need to change backup.com, it becomes ;16, our ; > autopurge removes ;15 and the batch job fails with a FNF.  > G > How do I stop the submit picking up the version? (Short of wrappering 5 > it with another procedure which doesn't change...)   >   7 	You can't - because as you found out the queue manager  	tracks File ID.   	Two ways to deal with it   C 	1)  Your suggestion - create a wrapper and go with the awkwardness  	2)  Run a scheduler  ? 	You say 2 may not be an option - but you could run a VMS Cron. 5 	I've used this in production environments for years:    http://tinyurl.com/83dbl  G 	While the comment states I hadn't tried it in a while (2002 comments), : 	I put it back into production shortly after penning that.  @ 	By getting those batch job submitter procedures out of the way C 	(essentially schedulers ) you can make changes to procedures right  	up until they run.    				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2005 23:46:50 -0500 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) # Subject: Re: DCL BAtch Job problem. 3 Message-ID: <b5TzTI9DdUxV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <42A3AD56.CAB6716C@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Mister Q wrote: B >> Of course, if we need to change backup.com, it becomes ;16, our< >> autopurge removes ;15 and the batch job fails with a FNF. > + > When you modify such a procedure you can:  >  > edit backup.com;15 > save it, it creates ;16  > % > then COPY/OVERLAY BACKUP.COM;16 ;15  > then DELETE BACKUP.COM;16  >   B 	Interesting - nice fixup.  All these years - I whack and resubmit	 	the job.    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 22:45:19 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> # Subject: Re: DCL BAtch Job problem. * Message-ID: <KpRoe.7178$K66.3298@fe02.lga>   William Webb wrote: H > Suggestion 1 would be to have a "wrapper" batch job whose only purpose > is to submitE > BACKUP.COM;0 (which will always get the highest version number)  in , > another batch job at the appropriate time. > F > Suggestion 2 would be to put a policy in place to delete all pendingF > batch jobs for a given file and resubmit them each time you edit the > submitted .COM,  > J > Suggestion 3 would be to never, ever edit the files your batch jobs run.  I There's also solution #4 ... have the job start up and immediately check  B for newer versions of its name. It's about a dozen or so lines of < generic code and it can fit neatly in a GOSUB or SUBROUTINE.  F Get the name of the .COM you're in with f$environment(), separate the = name and version with f$parse() and compare the version from  H f$environment() to the one you get with f$search() for the ; version of 3 that name. If they're not the same, @ the new file.   I You have to keep the original version of the file around until the batch  I job starts executing, but then it can be deleted. It makes updating code  F very easy. Just put the newer version in the right place (or edit the   old version and save) and voila!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:46:17 -0400 / From: John McKendry <jlastname@comcast.dot.net> E Subject: Re: Detached Process crash with unknown exit status 7B0017C0 < Message-ID: <pan.2005.06.06.03.46.12.752547@comcast.dot.net>  = On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 21:06:51 +0200, Albrecht Schlosser wrote:    > Marty O'Connor wrote: = >> "Albrecht Schlosser" <ajs856@tiscali.de> wrote in message  ) >> news:k9lk7d.t9b.ln@news.hus-soft.de...  >>   >>>Hi, >>> H >>>we got a detached process crash with a final status code of 7B0017C0,/ >>>but I can't find a way to find it's meaning.  >>>  >>> # >>>$ @decus:lookup_message 7B0017C0 " >>>Looking in CDA$ACCESSMSG.EXE... >>   >>   : >>   >>>Looking in TECOMSG.EXE...E >>>%SYSTEM-F-IVSECIDCTL, invalid section identification match control  >>>Looking in TPUMSG.EXE...  >>>Looking in USB$MSG.EXE... >>> 0 >>>Message not found in any message file. Sorry. >>>  >>> # >>>BTW, same result on Alpha (V7.3)  >>>  >>   >>  
 >> How about:  >>   >>   >>>help/message IVSECIDCTL >>   > N > Ahh, I'm sorry for this misleading _additional_ error message. This message P > results from "$ set message sys$message:tecomsg.exe" and is not related to my P > real question :-(. However, maybe it's interesting for VMS engineering (hint,  > hint ;-).  > ? > The question is: what does the status code (%x)7B0017C0 mean?  > R > BTW, I forgot to mention that there is no stack dump, nor an error message from S > this detached job. The only information I got was the final status code from the   > accounting utility.  >  > Thanks anyway  > 
 > Albrecht  C  I would suggest it's not really a VMS status code at all. It looks @ like a stack address. This could happen from a program returningC a dynamic variable's address rather than its value, or from various F other programming bugs. What do you know about the program the process$ is running? Do you have source code?   John   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 14:39:45 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID, Message-ID: <42A346F0.3D2A5132@teksavvy.com>   Karsten Nyblad wrote: H > Besides, AI also reports on minor violations of human rights.  I wouldH > be surprised if they have never been criticizing Canada.  However, the= > journalist usually do not write about the minor violations.   H Canada has had bad raps from AI. Government's treatment of First NationsG people (indians, inuits etc). Also, the quebec language laws (original G undilited ones from late 1970s) got bad rap from AI, and this was taken G as far as the UN where it was declared human rights violation. (the law E has since been watered down with each legal action taken against it).   G The real measure of whether a country is improving or getting worse. In H the case of the USA, it has been downhill in terms of human rights sinceH 9-11. And with americans defending their government's steps, there is noM end in sight to the downward regression, and that is what is really worrying.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2005 18:07:07 -0700 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional IDC Message-ID: <1118020026.993267.245980@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > AEF wrote: >  > ...  >  > > I > >>Blaming someone for the actions of a nut-case who's stalking him is a J > >>new low in my book.  But I guess knuckle-draggers who see little wrong > >  > >  > > K > > Uh, you're reading a little more (actually, quite a lot more) into what ) > > I said. I never held Nomen blameless.  > : > No, you're just reading at your usual third-grade level.    F Well, you keep writing at third-grade level -- what do you expect? :-)/ And your insults are at third-grade level, too.     J > I said nothing about holding Nomen blameless:  my comment was limited to( > extending blame for his actions to JF.    D No, your comment included extreme and unjustified rudeness. I am notC blaming JF for Nomen's actions anymore than I would blame a mugging G victim who just before the mugging was on line at a subway booth loudly ( saying "Sorry, I only have large bills."  F Nomen is a little like lightning. There isn't much you can do about it@ (except in this case *if* you're prepared to hunt him down via aC private eye or to break into his ISP to find out who he/she/it/they C is/are). My point is that given that there is lightning, it's not a G good idea to run into the water during a thunderstorm. Given that there C are burglars, it's not a good idea to go on vacation and leave your > house unlocked. Ka-peesh? Is this a difficult concept for you?    @ And I am blaming you for jumping to conclusions, or maybe you've$ actually developed a sense of humor.       > ...  > H > >>with our country's behavior aren't overly finicky about throwing anyE > >>kind of shit they think might possibly stick at people who are so L > >>presumptuous as to offer anything resembling objective criticisms of it. > >  > > 
 > >>- bill > >  > >  > > E > > Yes, pronouncements from a guy who thinks Russia joined WWII just . > > because they felt they needed to help out. > G > It appears that limiting your incompetent logic to once per post just   = What is your problem? You just can't stop the unnecessary and D unjustified insults. Have you seen what some of the other newsgroupsA are like? Nothing but people cursing at each other. Pretty much a F wasteland. And that's what you're bringing to cov. Great. (OK, maybe I2 exaggerate, but there is a lot of that out there.)  F As for the competence of my logic, I'll let readers (if there even are: any of this subthread at this point) judge for themselves.  H > isn't in your nature.  JF's grasp of some areas may be less than solidI > and correcting his errors when they occur is entirely appropriate.  But G > his understanding of current U.S. behavior is reasonably accurate and J > reflects the understanding of a large portion of the world's population,C > including a great many people who are predisposed to view us more K > positively and have reversed that view only with considerable difficulty.     A No doubt some of what he says has merit. But your insult went way A beyond that. You acted as if you, Bill Todd, were on the verge of D bringing about world peace and prosperity, and that I was somehow inF the way. Oh, I see, this is a gag! You *do* have a sense of humor. :-)   > J > In today's climate it takes some doing to get former friends to view oneG > as more of a threat to the world than they think world-wide terrorism " > is.  But we've managed to do so.    1 Yes, with cov to lead the way!  ...  Yeah, right.       > - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 03:52:50 +02003 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID= Message-ID: <42a3ac75$0$67263$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Karsten Nyblad wrote: C >> Besides, AI also reports on minor violations of human rights.  I A >> would be surprised if they have never been criticizing Canada. ? >> However, the journalist usually do not write about the minor  >> violations. > B > Canada has had bad raps from AI. Government's treatment of FirstG > Nations people (indians, inuits etc). Also, the quebec language laws D > (original undilited ones from late 1970s) got bad rap from AI, and > this was takenE > as far as the UN where it was declared human rights violation. (the  > law G > has since been watered down with each legal action taken against it).  > F > The real measure of whether a country is improving or getting worse. > InD > the case of the USA, it has been downhill in terms of human rightsD > since 9-11. And with americans defending their government's steps,
 > there is no E > end in sight to the downward regression, and that is what is really  > worrying.   , Actually, it is really very, very worrying !  
 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:12:20 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID, Message-ID: <RL-dnWwH5fCILD7fRVn-pA@igs.net>   William Webb wrote: / > On 6/4/05, John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  >> Dr. Dweeb wrote:  >>> William Webb wrote: > >>>> On 6/3/05, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: >>>>> John Smith wrote: F >>>>>> As to whose hands actually did the torturing, Syrians acting onF >>>>>> behalf of their own government, Syrians acting on behalf of theE >>>>>> US government, Americans of Syrian descent acting on behalf of @ >>>>>> the US government, or others with other motives - that is= >>>>>> unclear and may not ever be known with 100% certainty.  >>>>>  >>>>> C >>>>> Do americans deny arresting a senior VP of a large california D >>>>> database software company when he showed up to the immigrationE >>>>> office because he had heard that non citizens needed additional B >>>>> pieces of paper even if they were legally in the USA. He wasE >>>>> arrested on the spot (seems he showed up a few days late), sent C >>>>> to a southern california prison where he stayed with 12 other B >>>>> people in a cell with lights on 24 hours a day, no access toD >>>>> lawyers or a phone call. His office wondered where he was. HisF >>>>> family wondered what had happened to him, and his card, which heB >>>>> had parked for what he thought would be just half an hour to; >>>>> check with immigration officials was towed away ?????  >>>>> D >>>>> (and yes, he was canadian wuith full paper working in the USA,9 >>>>> with house and family firmly installed in the USA.)  >>>>> C >>>>> Are americans aware that following a spate of such incidents, F >>>>> Amnisty International started to post volunteers at the entranceG >>>>> of each immigration offiice to take down the person's contacts so E >>>>> that AI could contact the families should the person not emerge # >>>>> from the immigration office ?  >>>>> C >>>>> Yes, Amnisty International having to defend human rights from D >>>>> abuses by USA authorities. And your government has the gall to3 >>>>> tell other countries to respect human rights.  >>>>>  >>>>H >>>> I usually avoid these threads like the plague but cannot allow this >>>> to go without comment:  >>>>B >>>> Amnesty International's implication of a [blatantly false, toD >>>> anyone who has half a wit about them] moral equivalence between= >>>> the horrors of the Soviet-era gulags and what went on in F >>>> Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib is an insult to not only the millions of> >>>> victims [and their families] of the Soviet state securityG >>>> apparatus, but is also an insult to the intelligence of anyone who ? >>>> is conversant with the works of Solzhenitsyn or Sharansky.  >>>>B >>>> It's about as reasonable as equating panties on the head with >>>> beheading.  >>>> >>>  >>> Touch ! >> >> >>L http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20050602/cm_thenation/20050620editors;_yltF >> =AoUqOJ1uUXvqoRYTW9o7ylMe_8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl >> >> >> -- E >> OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling  >> ISV base. >> >> >> > G > John, I respect your brilliance when it comes to VMS marketing ideas, / > but Gulag/Gitmo is still a false equivalence.  > ! > The Yahoo article even says so.   E It's not the equivalence of the *places* but more the similarities in  *policies*.   E I'm not going to look up the attribution right now but the quote goes E something like, "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely".   I Without the 'light of day' shining in on what is actualy occuring, and by F that I don't mean 'embedded' journalists in the field or at Gitmo, the< seemingly serial abuses we keep reading about will continue.  H Nobody except the relatively few real radicals in the world want to hateC America or Americans, but when witness to the shifty-eyed coverups,oI harranguings, and outright dissembling by US politicians, the goodwill ofoI both those Americans who truly try to defend and respect the Constitution.J and those outside of the US who admire what the Constitution stands for is sorely tested.     >PH > And AI didn't say too much about the chopping off of heads, mutilation? > of corpses or so-called "honour killings" of women, did they?s     Not in that article, no.      F > (I always wanted to festoon the back of my car with adjacent AmnestyC > International and NRA stickers just to mess with the minds of theP > peopel behind me in traffic.)g   ;-) Nice touch.l       --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 00:36:38 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID= Message-ID: <lfCdneRSiN1KTz7fRVn-qA@metrocastcablevision.com>   
 AEF wrote: >  > Bill Todd wrote: >  >>AEF wrote: >> >>...d >> >>I >>>>Blaming someone for the actions of a nut-case who's stalking him is aeJ >>>>new low in my book.  But I guess knuckle-draggers who see little wrong >>>h >>>b >>>lJ >>>Uh, you're reading a little more (actually, quite a lot more) into what( >>>I said. I never held Nomen blameless. >>: >>No, you're just reading at your usual third-grade level. >  >  > H > Well, you keep writing at third-grade level -- what do you expect? :-)  A Sounds rather like, "Nyah, nyah - I know you are, but what am I?"r  I Guess that places you at more like kindergarten level.  Are you actually 0 employable?    ...D  J >>I said nothing about holding Nomen blameless:  my comment was limited to( >>extending blame for his actions to JF. >  >  > = > No, your comment included extreme and unjustified rudeness.m  F Seems like you can't hold a concept in your head from one sentence to H another, either.  Whether my response was rude (justifiably or not) has G absolutely nothing to do with your blatant inability to understand its y8 content and your subsequent mischaracterization thereof.  
   I am notE > blaming JF for Nomen's actions anymore than I would blame a muggingeI > victim who just before the mugging was on line at a subway booth loudlyh* > saying "Sorry, I only have large bills."  G So you're the kind of guy who thinks that women who wear anything more -F attractive than sackcloth and ashes are just asking to be raped, too. ' Can't say that I'm very much surprised.c   ...a  <   My point is that given that there is lightning, it's not aI > good idea to run into the water during a thunderstorm. Given that therecE > are burglars, it's not a good idea to go on vacation and leave yourl@ > house unlocked. Ka-peesh? Is this a difficult concept for you?  % No, but it appears to be one for you.r  I Because actions such as those are purely at the discretion of the person  C performing them.  And if that person later complains about adverse  G consequences, *then* observing that he might have considered acting so dA as to minimize the probability of their occurrence is reasonable.   I But that's not what you were doing with JF:  he wasn't complaining about  F Nomen's actions, *you* were - and assigning him blame for the actions  you were complaining about.f  H But that's probably far too detailed a chain of logic for you to follow ! even if you were inclined to try.n   ...    > What is your problem?e  A I thought I'd made it clear quite a while ago:  I don't tolerate   aggressive morons.  B Considerate morons aren't my favorite companions, but I find them I relatively innocuous.  Aggressive but intelligent contributors may grate pH at times, but they're well worth putting up with for the value of their  actual content.p  G But people like you don't offer anything in the way of useful content, fF don't understand where the boundaries of your competence lie (perhaps G because they're just tucked up too tightly under your nose to focus on  G easily), and don't let that slow them down in the slightest in passing n  incompetent judgments on others.  E Unfortunately, they also tend to be very thick-skinned.  So I use an  ( appropriate load to try to penetrate it.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 00:55:20 -0400t( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID= Message-ID: <R_2dnXB_47GkSj7fRVn-vw@metrocastcablevision.com>s   William Webb wrote:e   ...v  4    This, along with the AI report, are both cases of- > "making the perfect the enemy of the good".r > B > In other words, we're being condemned because we're not perfect.   Absolute and utter horseshit.y  D Except, of course, for the fact that we indeed are not perfect, and A increasing our separation at an alarmingly accelerating rate, in  J significant part due to the disgusting complacency of apologists like you.  I What we are being condemned for are frequent and documented instances of  G disregard for (and blatant violation of) international law, outrageous bB reinterpretation of domestic law and resulting trampling on civil D liberties, government-sanctioned torture, plus (admittedly 'only' a C single instance of) world-class aggression reminiscent of Hitler's -G invasion of Czechoslovakia (with an equally stunned and impotent world b looking on).  E Time to decide whether you're a 'good German' or a responsible human r@ being - unless we're already seeing the result of that decision.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jun 2005 20:01:58 -0700i From: windinghighway@aol.com) Subject: Re: Leo DiCaprio is Circumcised? B Message-ID: <1118026918.609900.71390@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  
 Taylor wrote:t   > I > Never heard of pulling it back? :-p Those cheap 7-11 car air fresheners J > (the ones that look like flat pine trees and leafs) w/ the loose elasticJ > string work well in an attempt to hold the foreskin back without cuttingD > off circulation. Maybe Leonardo pulled his foreskin back in 'Total > Eclipse'.     G I suppose its possible that Leo is uncut and used a cheap car freshenercE to hold his foreskin back for the penis shot in Total Eclipse.  After C all, a circumcised penis is much more cinematically pleasing that a G penis with foreskin,  which has the appearance and esthetic appeal of abE garden slug.   Also, Leo might not want to disconcert his primary fanoG base (young white Americans) by displaying a foreskin, which would comei@ as quite shock to many of them.   On the other hand, Leo is veryF professional in his work, and if he is uncut it seems unlikely that he= would go to such trouble to hide it when he was portraying anlG uncircumcised Frenchman.  Anyway, one thing is clear: in the only known C image available, Leo appears to enjoy the benefits of circumcision.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:49:11 +0200) From: "Jean Mertens" <jmertens@skynet.be>0 Subject: Re: OPC on VMS44 Message-ID: <42a34939$0$326$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>  1 Thanks so much for http://www.infosat.fr/infosat/     < "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> a crit dans le message deL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ED913@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...   > -----Original Message-----. > From: tadamsmar [mailto:tadamsmar@yahoo.com] > Sent: June 5, 2005 8:07 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Re: OPC on VMSc >a  > Have you checked out BaseStar? > @ > It's an HP product for VMS but I don't know much about it yet. >t+ > I did see some PC-in-the-middle products.h >  > Jean Mertens wrote:e > > HI,r > > ? > > I've the same need and have not been able to locate any OPCw > client for VMS. ? > > One additional need I've is to have the OPC client to reactb > on un-sollicited% > > input ( Asynchronous system trap):C > > to capture event from external devices (PLC or DCS) OPC server.6= > > The only solution I've been given has a PC in between the5 > VMS and the server > > that acts as the clientl< > > and have the PC hooked via LAT/serial to the Vax/Alpha - > Unacceptable for5 > > process control knowin the "stability" of windows  > > @ > > "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> a crit dans le message deA > > news:1117831159.487579.217700@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...,A > > > I may need to integerate OPC into a legacy VMS application.  > > >a< > > > I need to get data from an OPC system.  read and write > data points. > > >sG > > > 1. Are there any inexpensive OPC clients for VMS?  Any experience H > > > with clients?  I find some list of available clients with I search3 > > > this group, but I don't know much about them.e > > >iC > > > 2. Is it realistic to roll my own limited-function interface?r > > >y >i     Re: OPC client for OpenVMS ..:   This might be of interest:   http://www.infosat.fr/infosat/  " And the OpenVMS Wizard's response:. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_3244.html   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantr HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660h Fax: 613-591-4477- kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)3  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 07:46:51 +02002- From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr>o  Subject: [OT] When I'm sixty-one4 Message-ID: <42a3e34f$0$24370$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   06-JUN-1944 06-JUN-2005w   Merci.   D. French Landing in the States todayl  0 (is that the 21st time I post that message ?...)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 01:50:09 -0400p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>p$ Subject: Re: [OT] When I'm sixty-one, Message-ID: <42A3E408.A047F9F1@teksavvy.com>   Didier Morandi wrote:n >  > 06-JUN-1944 06-JUN-2005t   Bonne fte !     > Landing in the States todays  F If you don't post anything within the next 48 hours, we'll know you'llF have been abducted by the US authorities and sent to Gantanamo or some$ other place. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.313 ************************