1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 07 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 316       Contents:E Re: %VMSINSTAL-E-BADIMAGE "Backward compatibility" - My left buttock! 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day  Re: Alpha emulator?  Re: Alpha emulator?  Re: Alpha emulator? # Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 2  Re: Bulletin board software  Re: Bulletin board software  Hardware id of PCI card % How small can an VMS installation be? ) Re: How small can an VMS installation be? ) Re: How small can an VMS installation be? ) Re: How small can an VMS installation be? ) Re: How small can an VMS installation be? ) Re: How small can an VMS installation be? ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID ? Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 0 Re: My all mighty Microvax II has turned 18 !!!!0 Re: My all mighty Microvax II has turned 18 !!!!0 Re: My all mighty Microvax II has turned 18 !!!!$ Re: Possible to top FTP "cd" command Price of Basestar  Re: Problem installing DFU Re: Problem installing DFU Re: Problem installing DFU Re: Problem installing DFU Re: Problem installing DFU4 Secure Web Browser for OpenVMS v.1.7-8 now available8 Re: Secure Web Browser for OpenVMS v.1.7-8 now available. RE: Security Company - New OpenVMS Testimonial. Re: Security Company - New OpenVMS Testimonial6 Re: [O.T.] txx-based fair (unhijacking Re: a sad day))  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 11:56:36 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> N Subject: Re: %VMSINSTAL-E-BADIMAGE "Backward compatibility" - My left buttock!0 Message-ID: <11abgqimqlarof8@corp.supernews.com>   Richard Maher wrote: > Hi,  > I > Ok, so putting a Shareable Image Library in a Provide_Image Callback is N > pretty indefensible. But if we can leave that to one side for the moment :-) > L > So now Alpha, VMSINSTAL actually checks that you're supplying reall ImagesJ > to Provide_Image. Well that's just peachy. But where were all you bloodyI > empathisers when this change was being made? "Oh NO! You can't do that! N > You'll break somebody's code." or "There are complete peanuts out there thatL > are supplying anything to Provide_Image" or "We know it's not right but itE > _is_ documented and has been like that a _long_ time.". Sheesh! The  > hypocrasy.  H I haven't agreed with much you've written in this thread, but on this I E agree 100%.  If it's wrong, fix it.  When someone upgrades, they are  G told to read the release notes.  The release notes mention things that  1 are fixed.  This sometimes 'breaks' applications.   H If they want to fix it, they do and put the result in the release notes.  C If they don't want to fix it, they claim the need for not breaking  
 applications.   % Hypocrasy is indeed the correct word.   D I won't call what you've done bad.  You had a need and satisfied it.  ( But I sure wouldn't have done that!  :-)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 11:47:42 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam>  Subject: Re: a sad day= Message-ID: <42a56d8d$0$78282$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Z wrote:J > Is tax-based fair? If so, why not apply it to more essential items like I > food, water, clothes and housing? If you make $100K/yr, that burger is  - > $15, but if you make $50K/yr, it's only $5.   F The real issue is that no one knows if he is going to cost $50,000 or G $5,000,000 in health care during his life.  Thus you need some kind of  F insurance.  When it comes to food, you know you are going to eat that G and that much food per year.  Free marked works much more efficient on  H food than on health care because on the food marked the bills are payed G by those who benefit from the purchase.  On the health care market the  I purchase is decided by the doctors and patients, but they do not pay the   bills.   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:40:02 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: a sad day) Message-ID: <d83ti2$q7h$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   B In article <3X%oe.49446$rt1.30960@fe04.lga>, Z <Z@no.spam> writes:0 >Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:J >> Rather, some folks pointed out advantages of a tax-based system: costs I >> spread more evenly; government control of costs rather than companies  H >> charging what the market well bear, even if it makes health care too  >> expensive for some. > I >Is tax-based fair? If so, why not apply it to more essential items like  H >food, water, clothes and housing? If you make $100K/yr, that burger is , >$15, but if you make $50K/yr, it's only $5.  2 Because in order to do that you would either need     N 1) A National ID system recording everyone's salary which could be accessed by    all merchants selling goods.    or    G 2) Each citizen to be issued with a card by the government based on the     individuals salary.   ( O  In the latter case be prepared for a thriving blackmarket in stolen and forged 8  cards which state that the owner has a very low salary. )     ; Of course a tax based National Health service is more like    N 3) Abolish the free market economy and provide such goods on the basis of needN rather than on the ability to pay. (The payment for the system being extractedI using the same government information collected for Income tax purposes).     N This is much simpler to administer than your "differential costs" system sinceD you don't need to know what anyone's salary is at the point of sale.            
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:52:51 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: a sad day) Message-ID: <d83ua3$qej$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   \ In article <42A499F2.9920B5B5@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:0 >Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:E >> the contribution has to increase (or benefits have to be cut).  In I >> countries with a tax-based health-care system, the total costs tend to J >> be less, probably because there is less unnecessary paperwork involved. >  > C >Where government runned systems differ greatly is that they do not G >overspend on facilities/equipment. A city may have 3 hospitals, but it H >may need only one MRI machine to handle the case loads that really needF >MRI. Since the 3 hospitals work together instead of competing againstG >each other, they have no problems transfering patients from one to the I >other since  they don't see this as the loss of a profitable customer to  >a competitor. >  > G >And because there is no oversupply of medical procedures, doctors have G >to prioritise patients. Someone coming in in a real emergency will get H >his/her MRI right away, displacing a patient that was scheduled to haveE >his/her MRI for a less urgent problem. And this means that those who G >have no real need for an MRI will wait a very long time if they really 
 >want an MRI.  > I >This weeds out those who want MRIs for elective purposes, or doctors who E >prescribe an MRI just to cover their butts against malpractice suits > >when the MRI is really not necessary. By reducing unnecessaryH >procedures, it lowers global health costs. And it also reduces the risk. >that an unnecessary procedure would turn bad. > H >For every "patient died while waiting for treatment", I wonder how manyH >"patient died during an unnecessary procedure" performed by doctors who6 >saw potential to get money to pay for new golf clubs. > D >The "famous" cases of somone dying while on a wait list are few andI >would generally be the fault of doctors not determining that the patient  >was a priority.   > F >But everywhere in the western world, health care costs are very high.K >But in governmnent controlled schemes, the costs are under better control.   F Unfortunately in the UK successive governments turned this virtue intoM a vice by underfunded the NHS for years which led to the build up of waiting   lists.N The political focus then became to reduce the waiting lists even if that meantL that less urgent cases were treated first because they could be done quickly and cheaply.    
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 7 JUN 2005 10:25:05 GMT 4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: a sad day5 Message-ID: <7JUN05.10250562@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   F ->That is how tax works.  If you make $100k, the tax man takes 50% offE ->your salary, so in order to buy that $5.00 burger, you need to make J ->$10.00 in salary. If you are on welfare and pay no taxes, then the $5.00 ->burger costs you $5.00  5 In reality the US tax system is more of a bell curve.   F While you pay little or no tax on the the first few K of income, thoseB with large incomes, particularly from non-wages (investments), canG afford to hire lawyers and tax consultants to make use of countless tax A shelters and legal loopholes to greatly reduce and even eliminate B their taxes. As your non-wage income goes up your chances of being audited go down in the US.  G There's an excellent book on how the US tax system has essentially been E rigged to benefit the wealthy by David Cay Johnston called "Perfectly  Legal".   5 Or it can be summarized by a line from George Carlin:   F [In america] the middle class pay all the taxes and do all of the workE for the wealthy, the poor are there just to scare the sh*t out of the 
 middle class.    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison : --                   karcher.nomorespwm@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:24:11 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom> Subject: Re: Alpha emulator?& Message-ID: <42a54b91$1@news1.ethz.ch>   Michael wrote:9 > Thank you for responding, Tom.  I should have been more @ > explicit with my application.  I need to replace an Alpha that= > is in a piece of automatic test equipment (ATE) we use.  An < > earlier version of the ATE used a VAX, and we used a Q-Bus@ > adapter and pulled the VAX card out of it, along with a couple8 > peripherals (memory and hard drive?) and ran from a PC > with the ATE image on it.  > ; > Now we need to do the same thing with the Alpha.  Because   I But there are still Alphas on the sale, with fairly nice perf specs, and  G the code (or the binaries if the code is not there) can be ported even   to Itanium. G I know people which switched from VAX to Charon just because they were  - convinced by salespeople it's the only way...    S    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2005 03:53:03 -0700 ! From: "Michael" <zspider@gte.net>  Subject: Re: Alpha emulator?C Message-ID: <1118141583.710968.175470@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    S wrote:  D But there are still Alphas on the sale, with fairly nice perf specs, and F the code (or the binaries if the code is not there) can be ported even to Itanium. F I know people which switched from VAX to Charon just because they were- convinced by salespeople it's the only way...    ******************* B We still have two VAX workstations.  We started up a Charon systemB because our VAXs are old and the yearly hardware support contracts> cost as much as the purchase price for a good PC.  And the PCsA running Charon are screaming fast compared to our old VAXs (3100s ? if my memory serves me correct), about 10 times faster.  We had C compile/bind operations that were taking 2 hours on a VAX, and with 8 the Charon system it was completing in about 10 minutes.   Thanks, Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 07:19:52 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: Alpha emulator?. Message-ID: <42A54A98.21664.3B0964F@localhost>   On 7 Jun 2005 at 9:24, S wrote: H > I know people which switched from VAX to Charon just because they were0 > convinced by salespeople it's the only way...   C Those salespeople should be shot.  Or, perhaps it's a variation of  < "give a 2-year-old a hammer, and everything needs pounding".  E As a consultant and CHARON-VAX reseller [Shameless Plug Alert (tm)],  5 it's my job to find the RIGHT way to solve a problem.   > Some of my customers switched to CHARON-VAX instead of Alpha, C although both were possible, because the CHARON-VAX option entails  < less risk for them.  That's something only the customer can 
 determine.  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 16:32:05 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> , Subject: Re: Apple to switch to 8086, take 2< Message-ID: <9_jpe.8449$i65.3848@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:42A50954.B4BB8A33@teksavvy.com... > Bit more information:  > G > Apple announced today that first boot of MACos on the 8086 happened 5 H > years ago and they have since been compiling all versions of OS-X ontoG > the 8086 as well as PowerPC. (with only powerPC productised). This in B > contrast with VMS engineers learning about the port the same dayK > customer did and workable VMS system only available a couple years later.   M That's not a fair comparison.  Apple isn't getting out of the microprocessor  L business, they're switching suppliers.  How was Compaq supposed to secretly # ditch the Alpha hardware Engineers?   J Things are different now, HP could be secretly porting OpenVMS to PowerPC.   > < > OS-X will be little endian on 8086, big endian on PowerPC. > C > There will be  PowerPC emulator on the 8086 version that kicks in J > automatically (Called "Rosetta"). But it will have many more limitationsH > than the 68k emulator for Powerpc had. G4 and G5 specific instructiosnH > not supported. And classic mac applications won't run on the 8086. AndE > of course, the translator doesn't deal with endianness differences.  > D > Steve Jobs made it look like applications would just need a simple0 > recompile (where have I heard that before ?).    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:48:19 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>$ Subject: Re: Bulletin board softwareB Message-ID: <42a55f53$0$13461$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   Gremlin wrote: > Hi Jean-Franois > O > I can't seem to find a version of MySQL for VMS, certainly not any v5, v4 or   > v3 - could you help? >  > TIA  > F > "Jean-Franois Pironne" <jf.pieronne@laposte.net> wrote in message 1 > news:42a52722$0$879$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...  > I >>>Is there any bulleting board software that will work with the WASD web 
 >>>server? >>>  >> >>& >>phpbb2 run fine, need MySQL and PHP. >> >>I run it from a few years:. >>http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/phpbb/index.php >> >> >>>TIA >>>  >>>  >> >>Jean-Franois Pironne   >  >  >   7 I suggest you look around Jean-Franois' WASD Web Site. > He has a large selection of WASD-compatible software on offer.   MySQL 2 http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/#mysql   Jean-Franois' WASD Home Page  http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/ , http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/+ http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/jfp/    Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:14:17 +1000# From: "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate> $ Subject: Re: Bulletin board software/ Message-ID: <42a58188$1@duster.adelaide.on.net>    Thanks, that did the trick!   > "Keith Cayemberg" <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> wrote in message < news:42a55f53$0$13461$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net... > Gremlin wrote: >> Hi Jean-Franois  >>M >> I can't seem to find a version of MySQL for VMS, certainly not any v5, v4   >> or v3 - could you help? >> >> TIA >>G >> "Jean-Franois Pironne" <jf.pieronne@laposte.net> wrote in message  2 >> news:42a52722$0$879$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr... >>J >>>>Is there any bulleting board software that will work with the WASD web >>>>server?  >>>> >>>  >>> ' >>>phpbb2 run fine, need MySQL and PHP.  >>>  >>>I run it from a few years: / >>>http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/phpbb/index.php  >>>  >>>  >>>>TIA  >>>> >>>> >>>  >>>Jean-Franois Pironne  >> >> >> > 9 > I suggest you look around Jean-Franois' WASD Web Site. @ > He has a large selection of WASD-compatible software on offer. >  > MySQL 4 > http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/#mysql >  > Jean-Franois' WASD Home Page  > http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/ . > http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/kits/- > http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/jfp/  > 	 > Cheers!  >  > Keith Cayemberg  >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:32:15 +02009 From: "Robert Trawiski" <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl>   Subject: Hardware id of PCI card. Message-ID: <d83mbu$eso$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>  G Is it possible to get hardware id of PCI card from VMS session or from  K console?  We try to install Ethernet card that is not officially supported   (Alpha/VMS 7.3-2)    Thanks in advance,   Robert     ------------------------------    Date: 07 Jun 2005 15:21:04 +0200( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>. Subject: How small can an VMS installation be?4 Message-ID: <cs9zmu21ewv.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE>  G I have a 2 Gig HD left over that I'm considering using with a simulated  VAX.    H Anyone know how small disk footprint for VMS can be? Is there a good way to slim an installation down?    /andreas   --  A A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. ' Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?  A: Top-posting. ; Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:51:40 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 2 Subject: Re: How small can an VMS installation be?, Message-ID: <i5udnTDVNqviOzjfRVn-qA@igs.net>  F VMS 5.5 era versions fit in about 300Mb with DecWindows and a bunch of compilers thrown-in      Andreas Davour wrote: ? > I have a 2 Gig HD left over that I'm considering using with a  > simulated VAX. > F > Anyone know how small disk footprint for VMS can be? Is there a good# > way to slim an installation down?  > 
 > /andreas   --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:58:32 +0000 (UTC)- From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) 2 Subject: Re: How small can an VMS installation be?. Message-ID: <d84g78$brh$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes in article <cs9u0ka1aw5.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE> dated 07 Jun 2005 16:47:54 +0200: & >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > I >> VMS 5.5 era versions fit in about 300Mb with DecWindows and a bunch of  >> compilers thrown-in > F >7.2 VAX is the only media I have available, so I probably should have >mentioned that. > G >But, 300Mb is fairly impressive so I guess 7.2 isn't that much bigger?   G I ran OpenVMS/Alpha 7.1 on a 2GB system disk for some time.  There were I other, larger, disks for data, but all of the system stuff fit into about 0 1GB.  OpenVMS/VAX is probably even more compact.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 12:04:26 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 2 Subject: Re: How small can an VMS installation be?0 Message-ID: <11abh98r4ul52fa@corp.supernews.com>   Andreas Davour wrote: ' > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  >  > H >>VMS 5.5 era versions fit in about 300Mb with DecWindows and a bunch of >>compilers thrown-in  >  > G > 7.2 VAX is the only media I have available, so I probably should have  > mentioned that.  > H > But, 300Mb is fairly impressive so I guess 7.2 isn't that much bigger? > 
 > /andreas >   I I've got 1 GB system drives on some of my small VAXs.  The page and swap  E files together are bigger than all the VMS files.  VMS 7.2.  Fits on   under half the disk capability.   G Alpha is another story.  Plan on using 1 GB just for the installation.  , Smallest system disk I'll use there is 2 GB.  3 Talking VAXstation 4000 and AlphaStation 200 4/233.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 12:16:53 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> 2 Subject: Re: How small can an VMS installation be?2 Message-ID: <42A5D685.3010200@applied-synergy.com>   Andreas Davour wrote: I > I have a 2 Gig HD left over that I'm considering using with a simulated  > VAX.   > J > Anyone know how small disk footprint for VMS can be? Is there a good way > to slim an installation down?   G Well, I once set up a VMS boot node for a two node VS2000 cluster on a  E 40MB disk drive.  This included page/swap files for both nodes. (The   other node was diskless.)   A IIRC, this was VMS 4.4 or 4.5.  I used VWS for windowing because  < DECwindows was too big.  This system was extremely tailored.  / A lot depends on the products you want to load.   I Normally, for a VAX, I wouldn't have any reservations about a 2GB system   disk.   : If you want to "slim down" your installation, you can use  SYS$UPDATE:VMSTAILOR.   C One warning: If your simulated VAX simulates a VAXstation 3100 and  E simulates the console disk access restrictions of a VAXstation 3100,  , your system disk can not be larger than 1GB.   --  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:14:21 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)2 Subject: Re: How small can an VMS installation be?$ Message-ID: <d84kld$tbf$2@online.de>  E In article <d84g78$brh$2@newslocal.mitre.org>, klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG  (Keith A. Lewis) writes:     > Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes in article <cs9u0ka1aw5.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE> dated 07 Jun 2005 16:47:54 +0200: ( > >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > > K > >> VMS 5.5 era versions fit in about 300Mb with DecWindows and a bunch of  > >> compilers thrown-in > > H > >7.2 VAX is the only media I have available, so I probably should have > >mentioned that. > > I > >But, 300Mb is fairly impressive so I guess 7.2 isn't that much bigger?  > I > I ran OpenVMS/Alpha 7.1 on a 2GB system disk for some time.  There were K > other, larger, disks for data, but all of the system stuff fit into about 2 > 1GB.  OpenVMS/VAX is probably even more compact.  G I believe the RZ23L at 123 MB was introduced, slightly larger than the  I RZ23, since it could hold VMS, but a) an old version of VMS (compared to  F now), b) tailored with VMSTAILOR and c) without compilers, DECwindows H etc.  A normal installation then would have been about 500 MB, a normal E installation now about 1 GB.  That's VAX---double for ALPHA.  So, to  H have some room to move, you really need 2 GB for VAX and 4 GB for ALPHA C for the newest version of VMS with many layered products installed.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:29:08 +02003 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID= Message-ID: <42a54cc6$0$67255$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    John Santos wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >> >>D >>> But if they used the same "logic" we keep hearing about Iraq, weH >>> would never have attacked Germany because Germany wasn't threatening$ >>> us and proably never could have. >> >>H >> Germany was attacking many countries. Countries such as England askedG >> their friends to come to the rescue. And plenty of countries came to E >> help because Germany was a rogue nation out on a rampage. And even : >> Russia stepped in to stop that rogue nation's progress. > H > Actually, Russia only went to war with Germany after Germany attacked. > B > Shortly before Germany attacked Poland, Hitler and Stalin agreedA > to a non-aggression pact which was basically a deal to split up A > Poland.  (Right up to this point, Hitler had always labeled the G > Soviet Union as the greatest enemy of Germany and the slavs generally > > and the Russians in particular as sub-humans.)  Neither sideA > really trusted the other, but both wanted to buy time.  Germany G > was all set to invade England (had the troop transports, barges, etc. B > all prepared) but the Blitz failed, it got too late in the year,: > and the invasion got postponed indefinitely.  Hitler had@ > apparently always planned to attack Russia, but only after the@ > war in the west had ended.  Either through a cease fire, or anE > invasion and setting up a Vichy-style puppet government in England. D > Anyway, the next spring, he went ahead with the invasion of RussiaE > with ultimately disasterous results for about 20-30 million people.  > C > Russia didn't step in until it was attacked, and actually not for = > several days, since Stalin thought it was a plot by his own % > underlings and not a real invasion.  >  >> >>G >> When the USA was attacked on 9-11, all its allies came to the rescue D >> and when the Afghan government refused to help, plenty of nationsH >> not only agreed but also participated in the invasion of Afghanistan. >>G >> Iraq was not attacking anyone, and none of its neighbours wanted the C >> USA to invade. Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz had promised in 1998 to F >> tear up the Clinton agreement with North Korea, invade Iraq to oustF >> Hussein and show the middle east was was really in power etc.  ThisC >> had nothing to do with protecting the world, everything to do to G >> re-assert the USA's military and political might which they felt had E >> been compromised by a weak Clinton. These actions weren't based on C >> current realities, but rather on long standing plans by the evil H >> trio. The end result  is that the USA is now seen as the rogue nation >> invading others.  > E > The common thread here seems to be stupidity and greed, and a total ) > failure to learn anything from history.   < "History teaches us that history teaches us nothing" - Anon.9 "He whoa forget de pasta, isa doomed to reheat it" - Anon    :-) 
 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:23:52 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> H Subject: Re: HP to help governments with tracking users with NAtional ID, Message-ID: <acudnSgBGupnAjjfRVn-3Q@igs.net>   John Santos wrote:   > E > The common thread here seems to be stupidity and greed, and a total ) > failure to learn anything from history.     D Just like management of the companies that have owned VMS over time.     --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2005 10:20:27 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarmC Message-ID: <1118164827.186890.155350@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   0 I think intel has had enough of HP and told them5 "it's your baby, if your want it, you support it" ... . so now HP is still indirectly in the processor. manufacturing business by having to supply the/ money to intel to continue to try to prove that 2 itanium (in HPs mind) is superior ... if only they1 would admit it isn't and start up alpha again and 1 port everything to alpha!  But it is hard to cure 3 companies with NIH (not invented here) syndrome ...    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:27:17 +10006 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au>9 Subject: Re: My all mighty Microvax II has turned 18 !!!! X Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE41@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C56B43.18B25D24 . Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   5 >From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]  >Sent: Tue 6/7/2005 3:47 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com6 >Subject: My all mighty Microvax II has turned 18 !!!! >=20F >In the last week of May, my all mighty Microvax II, born in may 1987, >turned 18 years old.=20 > H >Apart from having to change power supply twice, it hasn't had any otherE >hardware problems. As a gift to my "son", I gave him  a picture of a 9 >naked female Microvax (loaded onto its hard drive :-)=20  > H >Perhaps I should find a DECdirect catalogue with a centerfold  and give >it my now adult son :-) >  > C >A tribute to quality products from Digital Equipment Corportation.    JF,   L On my desk I have a VAXstation 4000-60 and a DEC 3000.  We don't do any wor=L k on the VAX now, but I use it to transport debug windows and still have li= cences for DECset (VAXset).   L Checking out the 000000.dir, it is 19-mar-1994 -- at 21, it must have the k=L ey of the door :-).  It's been up for 373 days, so our building people are =& due for an annual power shutdown soon.  L My alpha DEC 3000 has an 000000.dir at 6-may-1993 (why?, the VAX came befor=L e the Alpha), but it's up-time is not as long because I was playing with so= me procedures.  L Yes, a tribute certainly and to VMS -- my colleagues get these blue things =
 regularly.   Regards, Paddy    G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged @ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 ? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************     ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C56B43.18B25D24 - Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>L <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> K <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0"> ? <TITLE>Re: My all mighty Microvax II has turned 18 !!!!</TITLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY>) <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->   L <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;From: JF Mezei [<A HREF=3D"mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@tek=7 savvy.com">mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com</A>]<BR> " &gt;Sent: Tue 6/7/2005 3:47 PM<BR>! &gt;To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<BR> = &gt;Subject: My all mighty Microvax II has turned 18 !!!!<BR>  &gt;<BR>L &gt;In the last week of May, my all mighty Microvax II, born in may 1987,<B= R> &gt;turned 18 years old.<BR> &gt;<BR>L &gt;Apart from having to change power supply twice, it hasn't had any other= <BR>L &gt;hardware problems. As a gift to my &quot;son&quot;, I gave him&nbsp; a = picture of a<BR>= &gt;naked female Microvax (loaded onto its hard drive :-)<BR>  &gt;<BR>L &gt;Perhaps I should find a DECdirect catalogue with a centerfold&nbsp; and=	  give<BR>  &gt;it my now adult son :-)<BR>  &gt;<BR> &gt;<BR>J &gt;A tribute to quality products from Digital Equipment Corportation.<BR> <BR> JF,<BR>  <BR>L On my desk I have a VAXstation 4000-60 and a DEC 3000.&nbsp; We don't do an=L y work on the VAX now, but I use it to transport debug windows and still ha=$ ve licences for DECset (VAXset).<BR> <BR>L Checking out the 000000.dir, it is 19-mar-1994 -- at 21, it must have the k=L ey of the door :-).&nbsp; It's been up for 373 days, so our building people=/  are due for an annual power shutdown soon.<BR>  <BR>L My alpha DEC 3000 has an 000000.dir at 6-may-1993 (why?, the VAX came befor=L e the Alpha), but it's up-time is not as long because I was playing with so= me procedures.<BR> <BR>L Yes, a tribute certainly and to VMS -- my colleagues get these blue things = regularly.<BR> <BR> Regards, Paddy</FONT>  </P>   <FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>  <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  <BR>G "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged<BR> B and confidential information intended only for the use of the <BR>F addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of <BR>G this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise<BR> F the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, <BR>; distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.<BR>  <BR>E If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid <BR> E immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the <BR> A individual sender except where the sender expressly and with <BR> G authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses<BR> B virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses<BR>  contained in any attachment.<BR> <BR>@ Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now<BR>( firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"<BR> <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  </FONT>  </BODY>  </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C56B43.18B25D24--    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 12:03:42 -0400 ' From: Dragan Cvetkovic <me@privacy.net> 9 Subject: Re: My all mighty Microvax II has turned 18 !!!! ( Message-ID: <lmhdgaduht.fsf@privacy.net>  4 "Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley@ugs.nojunk.com> writes:   [snip]   > K > It's annoying when you killfile someone like JF Mezei but you keep seeing L > replies to his postings.  If everyone would ignore him, killfiles would be > more effective.   3 Can't you killfile by the topic (aka subject line)?    Dragan   --   Dragan Cvetkovic,   H To be or not to be is true. G. Boole      No it isn't.  L. E. J. Brouwer  6 !!! Sender/From address is bogus. Use reply-to one !!!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:34:02 -04002 From: "Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley@ugs.nojunk.com>9 Subject: Re: My all mighty Microvax II has turned 18 !!!! 3 Message-ID: <d5a49$42a5da8d$927a2ce9$7035@FUSE.NET>   4 "Dragan Cvetkovic" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message" news:lmhdgaduht.fsf@privacy.net...6 > "Jeff Findley" <jeff.findley@ugs.nojunk.com> writes: >  > [snip] >  > > F > > It's annoying when you killfile someone like JF Mezei but you keep seeingK > > replies to his postings.  If everyone would ignore him, killfiles would  be > > more effective.  > 5 > Can't you killfile by the topic (aka subject line)?   K I tend to do that (except when I post to the topic, like now), but it still J means that JF gets the attention he craves.  He somehow thrives on his net kook reputation.   Jeff --  = Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:25:01 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)- Subject: Re: Possible to top FTP "cd" command $ Message-ID: <d83i4d$dtg$4@online.de>  5 In article <42A49ABD.BD27DEC6@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: E > > If they are using anonymous FTP, they can't get out of the "root" C > > directory, unless perhaps other directories are readable by the  > > anonymous user.  > J > They can CD SYS$SYSTEM: and then read any files that are world readable.  G OK, but is that a problem?  Do you really have world-readable stuff in  ? sys$system which is not appropriate for FTP to read but is for   interactive users?  " By the way, my anonymous FTP says:  + 331 Guest login OK, send ident as password. 	 Password: . 230 Guest login OK, access restrictions apply. FTP> cd sys$system7 550 insufficient privilege or file protection violation    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2005 09:12:07 -0700 ' From: "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com>  Subject: Price of BasestarC Message-ID: <1118160727.282568.317800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   5 Anyone have any pricing info on BaseStar for OpenVMS? 3 1 development and 4 run-time nodes,  all nodes DS10   3 I have inquiries in to HP, but I am trying to get a  quick ball park number.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 05:49:58 +0000 7 From: David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> # Subject: Re: Problem installing DFU * Message-ID: <42A53586.5060900@bigpond.com>   Gremlin mentioned in passing: M > Can't install DFU, it wants a kit that appears to be installed OK, install   > snippet follows: >  > [USERS] > product ' > _Operation (INSTALL, SHOW, ...): show ( > _What (PRODUCT, HISTORY, OBJECT): prod# > _Product name (* to show list): * > > ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------7 > PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATE > > ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------; > DEC AXPVMS DECNET_OSI V7.2-1        Full LP     Installed ; > DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-2           Platform    Installed ; > DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.1-15            Full LP     Installed ; > DEC AXPVMS TNT V3.2-D               Full LP     Installed ; > DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-2               Oper System Installed > > ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------ > 
 	[...snip...]   K > %PCSIUI-E-SWREFUNSAT, one or more software references cannot be satisfied  > A >     * Product DEC AXPVMS DFU V3.1-1 cannot be processed because > >     * one or more software dependencies (identified earlier)> >     * on other products cannot be satisfied.  Make available> >     * the prerequisite product kits and retry the operation. > F > %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error  > condition  >   > Any help would be appreciated. >  > TIA   & DFU 3.1-1 will *not* run on VMS 7.2-2./ You will have to get an earlier version of DFU.    Regards, Dave --  B David B Sneddon (dbs) VMS Systems Programmer dbsneddon@bigpond.comB Sneddo's quick guide ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/B DBS freeware   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 11:25:09 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de># Subject: Re: Problem installing DFU B Message-ID: <42a567f6$0$13467$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>   Gremlin wrote:  I > Thanks for that - any idea which is the latest version that *will* run?  >  > G > "David B Sneddon - bigpond" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote in message  & > news:42A53586.5060900@bigpond.com... >  >>Gremlin mentioned in passing:  >>F >>>Can't install DFU, it wants a kit that appears to be installed OK,  >>>install snippet follows:  >>>  >>>[USERS] > product( >>>_Operation (INSTALL, SHOW, ...): show) >>>_What (PRODUCT, HISTORY, OBJECT): prod $ >>>_Product name (* to show list): *? >>>----------------------------------- ----------- ------------ 8 >>>PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATE? >>>----------------------------------- ----------- ------------ < >>>DEC AXPVMS DECNET_OSI V7.2-1        Full LP     Installed< >>>DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-2           Platform    Installed< >>>DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.1-15            Full LP     Installed< >>>DEC AXPVMS TNT V3.2-D               Full LP     Installed< >>>DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-2               Oper System Installed? >>>----------------------------------- ----------- ------------  >>>  >> >>[...snip...] >> >>L >>>%PCSIUI-E-SWREFUNSAT, one or more software references cannot be satisfied >>> B >>>    * Product DEC AXPVMS DFU V3.1-1 cannot be processed because? >>>    * one or more software dependencies (identified earlier) ? >>>    * on other products cannot be satisfied.  Make available ? >>>    * the prerequisite product kits and retry the operation.  >>> G >>>%PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error   >>>condition >>> ! >>>Any help would be appreciated.  >>>  >>>TIA >>( >>DFU 3.1-1 will *not* run on VMS 7.2-2.1 >>You will have to get an earlier version of DFU.  >>
 >>Regards, >>Dave >>--  D >>David B Sneddon (dbs) VMS Systems Programmer dbsneddon@bigpond.comD >>Sneddo's quick guide ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/E >>DBS freeware   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   >  >  >   ? Here are the DFU Links. One of these should be the right one...     F DFU v2.4 - High Performance disk/file utility - OpenVMS Freeware CD v4B Operating System: OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2 thru 7.1, Alpha V6.1 thru 7.15 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/dfu024/    DFU v2.5 Docs - U of Oregon @ Operating System: OpenVMS VAX V6.1 thru 7.1, Alpha V6.1 thru 7.1/ http://www-vms.uoregon.edu/vms_help/dfu025.html   F DFU v2.6 - High Performance disk/file utility - OpenVMS Freeware CD v4' Operating System: OpenVMS V6.2 thru 7.2 5 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/dfu026/   F DFU v2.7 - High Performance disk/file utility - OpenVMS Freeware CD v4 Operating System: ? 5 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/dfu027/   G DFU v2.7a - High Performance disk/file utility - OpenVMS Freeware CD v5 ' Operating System: OpenVMS V6.2 thru 7.3 6 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/dfu027a/  : DFU v3.0 - Any reason why there is no VAX version - Google Operating System: ? I http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=103nk1kc3pv4lfe%40corp.supernews.com   F DFU v3.0 - High Performance disk/file utility - OpenVMS Freeware CD v6 Operating System: ? 2 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware60/dfu/  / DFU v3.1-1 - High-Performance Disk/File Utility  Operating System: ? 2 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware70/dfu/    B You need to extract the docs from the PCSI Kits and read for which* OpenVMS versions the kit can be installed.   Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:41:18 +0000 - From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> # Subject: Re: Problem installing DFU * Message-ID: <42A56BBE.6010007@bigpond.com>   Gremlin was overheard to say:  > A >     * Product DEC AXPVMS DFU V3.1-1 cannot be processed because > >     * one or more software dependencies (identified earlier)> >     * on other products cannot be satisfied.  Make available> >     * the prerequisite product kits and retry the operation. > F > %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error  > condition   4 You need V2.7-A, on the Freeware 5 CDs in [DFU027A].- DFU V3.x and above require at least VMS 7.3-1    Regards, Dave.  --  D David B Sneddon (dbs)  VMS Systems Programmer  dbsneddon@bigpond.comD Sneddo's quick guide ...     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/D DBS freeware     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:10:44 +1000# From: "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate> # Subject: Re: Problem installing DFU / Message-ID: <42a580b4$1@duster.adelaide.on.net>    Thanks Dave   L 2.7a works fine, now that I know fragmentation isn't a problem I can search F elsewhere for a reason that FTP traffic crawls at the moment......sigh   Thanks again  ; "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote in message  $ news:42A56BBE.6010007@bigpond.com... > Gremlin was overheard to say:  >>B >>     * Product DEC AXPVMS DFU V3.1-1 cannot be processed because? >>     * one or more software dependencies (identified earlier) ? >>     * on other products cannot be satisfied.  Make available ? >>     * the prerequisite product kits and retry the operation.  >>G >> %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error   >> condition > 6 > You need V2.7-A, on the Freeware 5 CDs in [DFU027A]./ > DFU V3.x and above require at least VMS 7.3-1  > 
 > Regards, > Dave.  > --  F > David B Sneddon (dbs)  VMS Systems Programmer  dbsneddon@bigpond.comF > Sneddo's quick guide ...     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/F > DBS freeware     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:25:35 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam># Subject: Re: Problem installing DFU 4 Message-ID: <d843nv$2l7$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Gremlin wrote:
 > Thanks Dave  > N > 2.7a works fine, now that I know fragmentation isn't a problem I can search H > elsewhere for a reason that FTP traffic crawls at the moment......sigh   which ftp ?  older ucx versions were slow. ' hgftp (formerly mgftp) was much faster.   I think recent tcpip are ok too.( don't know about commercial 3rd parties.   Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:33:25 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>= Subject: Secure Web Browser for OpenVMS v.1.7-8 now available B Message-ID: <42a5be47$0$13462$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>  G For those of you who don't check the OpenVMS What's New Page every day. ( http://h71000.www7.hp.com/new/index.html  4 Secure Web Browser for OpenVMS v.1.7-8 now available= http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/cswb/cswb.html    Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:45:20 +0000 (UTC)- From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) A Subject: Re: Secure Web Browser for OpenVMS v.1.7-8 now available . Message-ID: <d84mfg$gde$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes in article <42a5be47$0$13462$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net> dated Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:33:25 +0200: > H >For those of you who don't check the OpenVMS What's New Page every day.) >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/new/index.html  > 5 >Secure Web Browser for OpenVMS v.1.7-8 now available > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/cswb/cswb.html  G It took 3 attempts to download a file that decompressed without errors,  is it me or HP?   8 Using the M170 version to do the download, on VMS 7.3-1.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:28:41 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 7 Subject: RE: Security Company - New OpenVMS Testimonial R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6507E8@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  > Sent: June 6, 2005 9:15 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 > Subject: Re: Security Company - New OpenVMS Testimonial  >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- - > >> From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]  > >> Sent: June 6, 2005 5:03 PM  > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com< > >> Subject: Re: Security Company - New OpenVMS Testimonial > >> > >> bob@instantwhip.com wrote: 6 > >>> you better tell intel to continue to offer small1 > >>> 1p servers i.e. DS10/DS10L so we and others 3 > >>> can offer solutions to small and medium sized 3 > >>> businesses ... not everyone running vms needs ! > >>> and can afford a superdome!  > >> > >>H > >> Bob, HP doesn't care one iota about those markets for VMS. In orderE > >> to 'reach' those markets HP would have to advertise VMS. Tell me  > >> Bob, just= > >> between us guys, when was the last time you saw an HP ad  > >> *featuring* VMS? @ > >> When was the last time you saw an ad even mentioning VMS in > >> some way other - > >> than a token "Itanic runs VMS too" line?  > >> > > 	 > > John,  > > ? > > Not that I necessarily agree with the strategy, but when=20  > have you seen G > > any public or magazine ads specific for Solaris, AIX or even HP-UX?  >=20 >=20 > Solaris advertising, yes.  >=20@ > AIX - IBM's sales droids talk about it with their customers=20 > in banking and3 > brokerage - can't comment about other industries.  >=20B > HP-UX - no clue. It's at some of my customer sites but nobody=20 > says anything A > about advertising....they just expect that it won't be EOL'd=20  > anytime soon.  >=20< > VMS - oh, you mean the 'plan of record' that changes so=20 > frequently it soundsH > like a brainstorming session rather than a firm corporate committment. >=20  F Perhaps I missed it (certainly possible), but I read *a lot* of onlineH and mag print type stuff and I do not remember seeing any recent Solaris ads from Sun.=20  H As far as your comments about Solaris and AIX, I was asking about publicG ads - not what the IBM sales folks talk to their Cust's about. Heck, HP H sales folks also talk about OpenVMS (and NSK) when it comes to financialG markets. As an example, ISE was part of HP's Adaptive Enterprise online B marketing campaign about 6 months ago. There have also been fairlyE recent OpenVMS wins in the world stock exchange market place as well.   ? And before anyone starts jumping up and down, I am not saying I H necessarily agree with the strategy of not doing more marketing of OS's,A but simply that the other vendors like IBM and Sun do very little 0 external public marketing of their OS's as well.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2005 10:09:29 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com 7 Subject: Re: Security Company - New OpenVMS Testimonial C Message-ID: <1118164169.889873.123500@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E this isn't about advertising but about keeping promises that we would C be seeing these 1,000 and 2,000 1p itanium servers for us workgroup @ companies that do not need or can afford 40 superdomes when what; we really need is what was promised when alpha was dropped, > inexpensive small servers or workstations for small and medium businesses ...   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:19:36 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)? Subject: Re: [O.T.] txx-based fair (unhijacking Re: a sad day)) $ Message-ID: <d83hq8$dtg$2@online.de>  
 In articleF <OFF46D96A2.08F7541F-ON85257018.00673F1A-85257018.00678BD1@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:    J > You may have thought you were declaiming RAA, but for example in FinlandE > IIRC the speeding fine is based on income from your last income tax H > return (they are public documents) and the police access them via cellF > phone, then write the citation.  The higher your income, the greater > the fine. 2 > It may or may not be fair, but it is what it is.  H Right.  The point is, it is supposed to be a deterrent.  Obviously, EUR H 30 or whatever is not a deterrent for a millionaire.  I remember when a H journalist asked Paul McCartney what he thought about the UK government I increasing the penalties for marihuana possession (NOT income-based, but  B rather the same for everyone).  "I'll gladly pay a bit more."  :-)  I In Germany, if a court imposes a fine, it is a certain number of days of  I salary.  Otherwise, the rich could do what they want and buy it off with   what to them is peanuts.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.316 ************************