1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 10 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 321       Contents:! $ 6 Investment, Great Returns $$$ 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day 
 Re: a sad day  Re: Ancient VMS documentation  Re: Ancient VMS documentation 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 RE: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 RE: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 0 Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!). Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 4- two TCPIP cluster aliases in the same cluster  Re: vms and linux  why are alias names a bad idea?  Re: Xterm and Motif 1.3-1   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 9 Jun 2005 18:22:20 -0700  From: carce1974@yahoo.com * Subject: $ 6 Investment, Great Returns $$$C Message-ID: <1118366539.983226.292530@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   : I started out with $6.00 and six stamped envelopes. Now, I  : am making my goal of $700/week. I found this on a bulletin   board and decided to try it.  < A little while back, I was browsing through newsgroups, just  < like you are now, and came across an article similar to this  < and it said you could make thousands of dollars within weeks  : with only an initial investment of $6.00! So, I thought to  = myself, "Yeah right, I've seen this one before. It's the same   : scam I tried a couple of years ago. I wonder whose lists I   need to buy this time!"   < I spend many, many hours evaluating the opportunities of the  < World Wide Web. This one and its variations have been around  ; for about fifteen years. I was about to dismiss it when the   : light came on. Fifteen years and still around! Either this  < is a senseless spam or it really works! Anyway, it said that  9 Ishould send $1.00 to each of the 6 names on the list and   : addresses shown in the article. I was to then drop off the  = name and address on the bottom of the list at #6, and replace   = it with my own name and address. My next step was to post the    article on 200 newsgroups.  # (There are thousands of newsgroups)   & No catch, no list buying, that was it.  : So after thinking it over, and checking on the legalities,  : I decided to try it. The program is perfectly legal. Refer  8 to Title 18 Sec. 1302 & 1341 of the Postal lottery laws.  7 You will be providing a service for the people who send    you their name and addresses.   ; The outlay and time spent were truly minimal. Six $1 bills,   9 6 envelopes and 6 stamps. About 15 minutes to address the   ; envelopes, place a dollar bill and the specified request in   5 each, lick the stamps and seal the envelopes. Posting   ; this announcement to newsgroups takes about one hour a day.   < Well GUESS WHAT!?... within 10 days, I started getting money  7 in the mail! I was shocked! I received about $25.00 the   6 first week. Needless to say, I was still skeptical and  < unsure of the tenacity of the program, but by the end of the  = third week I had received over 645 envelopes, people replying   8 to my request and providing me with the information I am  9 being paid to maintain. I am well within range of my goal    of $700 per week!   < This program is certainly worth the money, time and effort I  9 devote to it and the potential for significant amounts of   < monetary rewards are astronomical! I am going to lay out for  ? you here the why and how of this program in the next few pages.   9 Suggestion: Read this entire message carefully! (print it   ; out or save it on your computer for easy reference) Read it   " again! Expect significant results!  ; IMPORTANT! This is not a rip-off! It is not indecent; it is   = not illegal; it is not subject to Spamming laws! It is 99% no   < risk - it really works! If all of the following instructions  ; are adhered to, you will receive large returns on your time   
 and money!  6 PLEASE NOTE: THIS PROGRAM WORKS AND REMAINS SUCCESSFUL  6 BECAUSE OF THE HONESTY AND INTEGRITY OF THE PEOPLE WHO   PARTICIPATE IN IT.  > Please maintain the integrity of the original list you have in  < front on you. Please maintain the success of this program by  = carefully adhering to the instructions. You will now become a   ? part of the Mail Order business by providing a valuable service   < of developing Mailing Lists. Many large corporations pay big  ; dollars for quality lists. But, the money paid for lists is   < secondary to the income made from people like you and me who  ' ask others to be included on the lists.   $ HERE ARE YOUR EASY STEPS TO SUCCESS:  8 STEP 1: Get 6 envelopes and 6 thirty-seven cents ($0.37)  = postage stamps. Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write down   ; your name and address on each of them followed by the words   8 "Please add me to your mailing list". Now get 6 US $1.00  9 bills and place ONE folded inside EACH of the 6 pieces of   ; paper (so the bill will not be visible through the envelope   = to prevent thievery). Next, place one paper-wrapped dollar in   ; each envelopes and seal them. WHAT YOU ARE DOING ISCREATING   5 A BUSINESS SERVICE. This is absolutely legal! You are   : requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it!  = call the US Postal Service at 1-800-725-2161 for verification    of legality just like I did.  4 Now mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses:   #1.- Alejandro Reyes Garcia    Calle Puerta Galerias No. 501    Fraccionamiento Los Portales  $ Chihuahua, Chih. M=E9xico C.P. 31103   #2.- Rolando Spencer   Calle San Gabriel 375-204    Col. Chapalita  " Guadalajara, Jal Mexico C.P. 45040  ( #3.- Jorge Alberto Jim=E9nez Rodr=EDguez  ( S=E1nchez Azcona 1612-401 Col. Del Valle   C=2EP. 03100 M=E9xico D.F.   #4.- Ernesto Villar M.   Apartado Postal # 511    Torre=F3n, Coah.   M=E9xico C.P. 27001    #5.- Blanca Camacho    C=2EJulia Rivera # 2 Col.Modena    Cd.Jim=E9nez,Chihuahua.M=E9xico    C=2EP.33980    #6.- Carlos Arce   P=2EO. Box 5   Bernardsville NJ 07924-0005    U=2ES.A.  8 STEP 2: Now remove the #1 name off the list that you see  : above, move the remaining names up one space (6 becomes 5,  7 5 becomes 4, 4 becomes 3, etc...) and add your name and     address as number 6 on the list.  : STEP 3: Change anything you feel necessary but try to keep  < this article as close to the original as possible. Now, post  : your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups (STEPS 4-8  8 explain the posting process) (I think there are close to  9 24,000 newsgroups) All you need is 200, but remember, the   / more you post, the more liklihood of responses.   7 NOTE: Retain every name and address sent to you, either   6 on a computer or the hard copy original. This verifies  8 that you are providing a service for which you are being   paid.   : (Steps 4-8 below provide the instructions for posting this  2 article to a newsgroup. If you are unfamiliar with  0 newsgroups and posting information to them go to  1 http://www.fmscommunity.org/usenet.htm for useful   
 instructions)   5 STEP 4: You do not need to re-type this entire letter   5 to do your own posting. Simply put your cursor at the   6 beginning of this document and drag your cursor to the  8 end and select 'copy' from the edit menu. This will copy  0 the entire document into your computer's memory.  9 STEP 5: Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your cursor   9 at the top of the blank page. From the 'edit' menu select   4 'paste'. This will paste a copy of the document into  : notepad so that you can make the necesssary changes to the  5 document (adding your name and address and moving the    remaining names up a space).  5 STEP 6: Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If   7 you want to do your postings in different settings (see   6 Step 7), you will always have this file to go back to.  6 STEP 7: Use Internet Explorer or Netscape and a search  9 engine to search for various types of newsgroups (on-line   5 forums, message boards, chat sites, discussions). You   5 can go to http://groups-beta.google.com/ and click on   5 'Browse all of Usenet'. Many of the groups listed are   9 invalid for this business as they have minimal numbers of   8 members (a significant number only have 1 member) or are  ; subject intense, relating to specific subjects not relevent   8 to making money or job interests, i.e 'Poodle Sweaters'.  8 STEP 8: Visit these newsgroups and post this document as  9 a new message highlighting the text and selecting 'paste'   7 from the 'edit' menu (see step 5). Fill in the Subject,   9 this will be the header that everyone sees as they scroll   7 through the list of postings in a particular group. Now   0 click the 'post message' button. Once you become  5 proficient with this you should be able to complete a   6 posting in about 3 minutes (the majority of newsgroups  # require you to register with them).   7 NOTE: I am not going to repeat all of the possibilities   6 of this business. You can review some of the duplicate  8 postings (the fact that there are duplicate postings for  6 this particular List Building Business is a revelation  2 in and of itself!) if you are really interested in  
 speculations.   9 The thought to remember is that there are people all over   8 the world who are joining the internet and reading these  9 articles every day! The possibility of you doing this and   5 receiving no money is minimal. There are estimates of   7 from 20,000 to 50,000 new users each day who are honest   9 and play fairly and will definitely be interested in this    money-making business.  8 CONGRATULATIONS...that is it! All you have to do is post  5 away and wait for responses in your mailbox. REMEMBER   8 honesty and integrity are the key to the success of this  7 Mailing List business. Keep track of the newsgroups you   8 post to and review the duplicates occasionally to ensure  5 your name is still on the lists. When your name is no   8 longer on the list, take the latest posting and send out  4 another $6.00 to the names on the latest list, again  9 putting your information at number 6 and start posting=20    again.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:33:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: a sad day, Message-ID: <42A899A1.7CAE7AF1@teksavvy.com>   Z wrote:G > Your statement stands as false. The Forbes proposal has ALWAYS had an ' > exclusion for the first $N of income.   F The "flat tax" thing is far more than just the taxation rate. You need' to look at all possible deductions too.   G It doesn't matter what the tax rates on revenus is when the rich people G have access to so many deductions that they don't really have that much  revenus in the top bracket.  .    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 22:03:59 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: a sad day= Message-ID: <f-ednWazqu6MaDXfRVn-3g@metrocastcablevision.com>    Z wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: >  >> Z wrote:  >> >>> Bill Todd wrote: >>> E >>>> But reduce the *degree* of disproportionality is precisely what  G >>>> Dubya's cuts did, bringing us closer to that Forbes favorite, the  ' >>>> not-progressive-at-all 'flat tax'.  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>> G >>> Forbes' flat tax is indeed progressive since the first ~$30-35K is   >>> taxed at ZERO percent. >> >> >>J >> My statement stands:  the flat tax per se (which is what the statement  >  > ! > Your statement stands as false.   " No, you just stand as incompetent.  B What part of the fact that a flat tax PER SE, which is what I was 7 referring to, is, well, FLAT is managing to escape you?   H The fact that Forbes favored a tweak in the basic flat-tax structure to A exempt a certain amount of initial income is specific to his own  F proposal, not to the basic idea embodied in the concept of a flat tax D (which he clearly favors, but for obvious reasons feels the need to G tweak a bit because it's so manifestly absurd at the lowest levels but  @ only absurd after some actual consideration as one goes higher).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:27:00 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam>  Subject: Re: a sad day& Message-ID: <PV6qe.78$eL5.25@fe04.lga>   JF Mezei wrote: G >>Your statement stands as false. The Forbes proposal has ALWAYS had an ' >>exclusion for the first $N of income.   H > The "flat tax" thing is far more than just the taxation rate. You need) > to look at all possible deductions too.  > I > It doesn't matter what the tax rates on revenus is when the rich people I > have access to so many deductions that they don't really have that much  > revenus in the top bracket.   , Forbes plan removed almost _all_ deductions.  G Most independent analyses concluded that the break even income amt was  ? around $200K. Below that, you pay less. Above it, you pay more.   G In other news, I see the Canadian Supreme Court struck down the Ottawa  D law prohibiting private health care. Seems the waiting lines in the I Canadian health care system are so long that the Canadian people are now  F clamoring to be allowed (it was _illegal_!) to pay for private health + care.  (NY Times: http://tinyurl.com/7qo65)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:32:17 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam>  Subject: Re: a sad day& Message-ID: <M_6qe.79$eL5.38@fe04.lga>   Bill Todd wrote:F >>>>> But reduce the *degree* of disproportionality is precisely what H >>>>> Dubya's cuts did, bringing us closer to that Forbes favorite, the ( >>>>> not-progressive-at-all 'flat tax'.  H >>>> Forbes' flat tax is indeed progressive since the first ~$30-35K is  >>>> taxed at ZERO percent.   K >>> My statement stands:  the flat tax per se (which is what the statement    " >> Your statement stands as false.  $ > No, you just stand as incompetent. > D > What part of the fact that a flat tax PER SE, which is what I was 9 > referring to, is, well, FLAT is managing to escape you?   @ Forbes never ever endorsed an absolutely flat tax w/o an income I exclusion at lower levels.  In fact, I've never ever seen ANYONE present  # a flat tax with the first $1 taxed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:02:20 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: a sad day= Message-ID: <yqCdndx_MYkjnzTfRVn-1Q@metrocastcablevision.com>    Z wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: > G >>>>>> But reduce the *degree* of disproportionality is precisely what  I >>>>>> Dubya's cuts did, bringing us closer to that Forbes favorite, the  ) >>>>>> not-progressive-at-all 'flat tax'.  >  > I >>>>> Forbes' flat tax is indeed progressive since the first ~$30-35K is   >>>>> taxed at ZERO percent. >  > L >>>> My statement stands:  the flat tax per se (which is what the statement  >  > # >>> Your statement stands as false.  >  > % >> No, you just stand as incompetent.  >>E >> What part of the fact that a flat tax PER SE, which is what I was  : >> referring to, is, well, FLAT is managing to escape you? >  > B > Forbes never ever endorsed an absolutely flat tax w/o an income K > exclusion at lower levels.  In fact, I've never ever seen ANYONE present  % > a flat tax with the first $1 taxed.   G And yet, that is the logical end-point of what the flat-tax philosophy  	 embodies.   G Kind of tells you something, I suggest - in a "Pay no attention to the  % man behind the curtain!" kind of way.   E Simple solutions appeal to simpletons, but sometimes even simpletons  G aren't *that* simple and need just a bit of obfuscation in order to be  H won over.  Heaven forbid that they'd then start examining the nature of B the tweak and notice that if it applies at the very bottom (as it H clearly must), then something very similar applies at each higher point F in the spectrum and, lo and behold! - you've got your progressive tax G rates back again and the flat tax (however tastily frosted in attempts  A to obscure its basic flaw) stands exposed as the sham that it is.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 22:01:32 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam>  Subject: Re: a sad day' Message-ID: <Ha9qe.111$eL5.23@fe04.lga>    Dave Froble wrote:C >> Forbes never ever endorsed an absolutely flat tax w/o an income  D >> exclusion at lower levels.  In fact, I've never ever seen ANYONE . >> present a flat tax with the first $1 taxed.  H > Try the Pennsylvania Income Tax.  Of course, you round to the nearest K > dollar, so 2.? % of up to $20 or so will let you round down to $0.  But,   > it's applied to everything.    It's 3.07%.    PA 2004 PA-40 Form: A http://www.revenue.state.pa.us/revenue/lib/revenue/2004_pa-40.pdf    PA 2004 PA-40 Instructions: F http://www.revenue.state.pa.us/revenue/lib/revenue/2004_pa-40_inst.pdf   PA 2004 Schedule SP:C http://www.revenue.state.pa.us/revenue/lib/revenue/2004_pa-40sp.pdf   G See the PA 2004 PA-40 form and note the tax forgiveness credit item on   lines 19a, 20 and 21.   I See PA 2004 PA-40 Instructions (p.19, pps.31-32) and PA 2004 Schedule SP  C and note that the sliding tax forgiveness tables on page 32 of the  
 instructions.   G A single taxpayer with no children and $6,500 in eligible income (from  F PA 2004 Schedule SP) gets a full 1.0% tax forgiveness and pays only a  2.07% tax rate.   F A married taxpayer with 2 children gets a 1.0% forgiveness on $32,000.    PA state income tax is not flat.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:54:50 GMT ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> & Subject: Re: Ancient VMS documentation& Message-ID: <42A89100.9090608@iee.org>   William Webb wrote:    >  > DFWLUG might want them.  >   > I thought DFWLUG were the people collecting much documentation? and machines but are now passing it all on to other collectors?    Antonio    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:11:29 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: Ancient VMS documentation+ Message-ID: <42A8DAB0.E3BEE950@comcast.net>    Antonio Carlini wrote: >  > William Webb wrote:  >  > >  > > DFWLUG might want them.  > >  > @ > I thought DFWLUG were the people collecting much documentationA > and machines but are now passing it all on to other collectors?   B Since JW's passing, Pat J. has been here offering items from theirC collection. Maybe write him direct and ask. One of his recent posts $ should have a valid address for him.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jun 2005 13:13:59 -0500 4 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)< Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm3 Message-ID: <v+AzdLkXDENV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <1118337869.034773.191460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: 6 > so if ia64 is done for, what is vms going to run on?  	 Antiques.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  K         This is a country which stands tallest in troubled times, a country K         that clings to fundamental principles, cherishes its constitutional I         heritage, and rejects simple solutions that compromise the values H         that lie at the roots of our democratic system. -- Supreme Court(         Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1972    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:35:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm, Message-ID: <42A899F7.79EC6FAB@teksavvy.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > 6 > so if ia64 is done for, what is vms going to run on?  H The 8086. It is the logical progression, and it is the one platform thatE fits the original intent to have VMS on a commodity low cost CPU that " spans from laptop to data centre.   H And the 8086 is available from at least 2 competing sources, so it isn't proprietary like IA64.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:55:12 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm0 Message-ID: <11ah7hv2htuoq64@corp.supernews.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:6 > so if ia64 is done for, what is vms going to run on? >   D Ha!  Four years later he gets a clue of what so many were/are upset C about!  Ya gotta look a bit further than the end of your nose, Bob.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 12:59:04 -0700* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>< Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm2 Message-ID: <boGdndHotqMVAjXfRVn-rw@mpowercom.net>  ' <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message  = news:1118337869.034773.191460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... 6 > so if ia64 is done for, what is vms going to run on? > K In the ideal world, HP follows Apple and recognizes the obvious.  Port VMS  H to x64 64 bit, and then run VMS as a virtual machine alongside Windows, * Linux, OS X and whatever else comes along.  H AMD is putting in place the hardware changes to efficiently run virtual M machines, and Intel is (as usual) about a year behind.   The Apple defection  J does nothing to bolster Itanium, but along with Sun boosting AMD does add F impetus to a VMS port, especially if Dell gives up and takes on AMD64 L processors too.   "Industry Standard X86-64" will de facto be the processor  to use for commercial systems.  K That's the ideal world.  Real world, I wonder if there's enough future VMS  L business left for HP to bother funding a port to x86.  It would be a shame, H because I have several customers who would jump at the chance to retire J their Alphas and run VMS as a virtual machine on one big x86 server.  Not 1 one of them will even consider buying an Itanium.    Jack Peacock     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 17:32:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm, Message-ID: <42A8B57B.3AAC0950@teksavvy.com>   Jack Peacock wrote: N > machines, and Intel is (as usual) about a year behind.   The Apple defectionK > does nothing to bolster Itanium, but along with Sun boosting AMD does add G > impetus to a VMS port, especially if Dell gives up and takes on AMD64 M > processors too.   "Industry Standard X86-64" will de facto be the processor   > to use for commercial systems.  E Apple, within 2 years, will have completed its transition to the 8086 G and stop selling PPC systems.  4 years into the transition to IA64, VMS & has barely begun to sell commercially.  F The VMS engineers better have initial work already done to port to theH 8086. And if the 8086 does lack hardware features needed to make VMS runE fully on the 8086, then HP better tell AMD and Intel about it ASAP so E that by 2007, the 8086s that are being sold will have those features.     G VMS can't afford another 4 year gap between announcement and commercial F availability. I don't care if the engineers have to work secretely in B ZKO's basement, or sent on "vacation" to a secured and undisclosedB location in florida to do the work there.  IT really must be done.  3 > Real world, I wonder if there's enough future VMS 8 > business left for HP to bother funding a port to x86.   H With VMS on the 8086, I'd say yes. HP could then allow VMS to scale fromE desktop to datacentre once again, heck, even laptops could be running E VMS. This would be a huge improvement over the IA64 that is targetted F only at "big iron" and allow VMS to recapture many of the customers itF lost when Palmer decided to restrict Alpha and VMS to big systems only& in onrder to allow Windows to breathe.     >  Not3 > one of them will even consider buying an Itanium.   C And I would hope that all VMS customers would send a loud and clear C message to Hurd that IA64 is a liability to HP, not an asset. It is  limiting sales.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:11:44 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> < Subject: RE: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarmR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650918@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]=20  > Sent: June 9, 2005 1:24 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm >=206 > so if ia64 is done for, what is vms going to run on? >=20  E Bob, JF is entitled to his Itanium opinions like everyone else on the 	 group.=20   < Some share his negative view, others do not. Time will tell.  H However, other vendors that have also made recent positive announcements" wrt to Itanium's future potential-  4 - SGI Announces new Itanium Workstation: April, 2005H http://news.com.com/SGI+to+release+Itanium+workstation/2100-1010_3-56840 47.html?tag=3Dnefd.top  @ - Fujitsu to launch new PrimeQuest Itanium servers - March, 2005/ http://www.itworld.com/Comp/1361/050317fujitsu/ A "The PrimeQuest products will be Fujitsu's first high-end Itanium E servers. The company currently sells Primergy servers with as many as D four Itanium processors, but will expand its product line to includeG servers with between eight and 64 Itanium processors with the launch of  PrimeQuest."  / - Microsoft, Itanium and Longhorn - April, 2005 ; http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/erp/article.php/3496866=20 E ""In the 'Longhorn'-server timeframe, there are more opportunities to F consolidate target workloads onto Windows- and Itanium-based systems,"F Muglia said as part of a Microsoft-sponsored interview. "We're workingF with our partners to deploy more than 1,000 Itanium 2-based systems in5 our labs for 'Longhorn'-server test and development."   2 - SAP promotes charms of Intel Itanium - May, 2005+ http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=3D23567   F And in case, anyone thinks Intel is hurting right now which might makeG them change any strategies they have currently in place, their business + update today certainly indicates otherwise: @ http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20050609corp.htmG "SANTA CLARA, Calif., June 9, 2005 -- Intel Corporation expects revenue F for the second quarter to be between $9.1 billion and $9.3 billion, as? compared to the previous range of $8.6 billion to $9.2 billion, A primarily driven by ongoing strong demand for notebook products."   G [even if growth was due to notebooks, "growth" is all most shareholders  see]   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.     Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:47:22 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm, Message-ID: <42A8C6E7.DF1918EC@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:> > Some share his negative view, others do not. Time will tell.  F Actually, I am quite positive. Intel continues to send out the signalsH that by 2007, the 8086 will be able to replace IA64 completely, and that( a port of vMS to the 8086 is inevitable.  @ Once you accept the fact that Alpha is dead, then moving the theN popuopar platform with enough volume to ensure its future is a positive thing.  G It is pointless to prolong IA64's pain. Let it Itanic sink ASAP and let D the 8086 take over. VMS can't grow on a dying chip. It has been on aH dying chip (Alpha) between 2001 and 2005, and between now and the day it, is available on 8086, it is on a dying chip.    J > However, other vendors that have also made recent positive announcements$ > wrt to Itanium's future potential-  F Yeah, like Digital claiming it was the fastest growing PC manufacturer7 when it went from shipping 0 units to a few 1000 units.   C It isn't so important to look at chips produced, but rather revenus B generated. When a company such as HP, SGI or Fujitsu donates largeH number of systems to some research organisation in ecchange for bragging> rights, this doesn't generate revenus. It generates marketing.  H > Muglia said as part of a Microsoft-sponsored interview. "We're workingH > with our partners to deploy more than 1,000 Itanium 2-based systems in7 > our labs for 'Longhorn'-server test and development."   C PR gobbledeegook. They are thinking about talking to partners about H deploying IA64 boxes. Not the same as "We've deployed 1000 IA64 boxes in
 our labs".  H > And in case, anyone thinks Intel is hurting right now which might makeI > them change any strategies they have currently in place, their business - > update today certainly indicates otherwise:   D Their IA64 strategy became quite clear in early 2004. You are right,D they have no need to change that strategy because it is to phase out; IA64 by 2007 when the 8086 will be just as capable as IA64.     I > [even if growth was due to notebooks, "growth" is all most shareholders  > see]  F But the day the numbers aren't perfect, shareholders will demand IntelD stop wasting money on unprofitabl;e low volume products that consume enourmous money.  F Also, with Intel now behind AMD in terms of performanmce and features,H there will be pressure for Intel to deploy more resources on the 8086 toG have it catch up to AMD. And that might mean redeploying resources from C IA64 to the 8086, especially the remaining Alpha designers who knwo Q quite a bit about the 8086 since the 8086 integrated so much of Alpha's features.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:28:21 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> < Subject: RE: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarmR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB65092E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20  > Sent: June 9, 2005 6:47 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm >=20 > "Main, Kerry" wrote:@ > > Some share his negative view, others do not. Time will tell. >=20H > Actually, I am quite positive. Intel continues to send out the signals8 > that by 2007, the 8086 will be able to replace IA64=20 > completely, and that* > a port of vMS to the 8086 is inevitable. >=20  G Huh? Where in the world did you pull both of those little gems from?=20   ) Please tell the rest of us where you saw:   > 1. Where Intel has said 8086 will be able to replace IA64 and,@ 2. Where Intel or HP or anyone (besides yourself) in any type ofB official position that has stated a port of OpenVMS to the 8086 is inevitable.   B > Once you accept the fact that Alpha is dead, then moving the theA > popuopar platform with enough volume to ensure its future is=20  > a positive thing.  >=20? > It is pointless to prolong IA64's pain. Let it Itanic sink=20  > ASAP and letF > the 8086 take over. VMS can't grow on a dying chip. It has been on aB > dying chip (Alpha) between 2001 and 2005, and between now and=20 > the day it. > is available on 8086, it is on a dying chip. >=20 >=20A > > However, other vendors that have also made recent positive=20  > announcements & > > wrt to Itanium's future potential- >=20H > Yeah, like Digital claiming it was the fastest growing PC manufacturer9 > when it went from shipping 0 units to a few 1000 units.  >=20E > It isn't so important to look at chips produced, but rather revenus D > generated. When a company such as HP, SGI or Fujitsu donates large@ > number of systems to some research organisation in ecchange=20 > for bragging@ > rights, this doesn't generate revenus. It generates marketing. >=20  G Hey, the game is only just getting started and you want to throw in the + towel after only the second or third round?   H If AMD had this attitude about 4 years ago (when Intel was kicking theirF butt in the Mhz race), they would have simply given up and said "whats	 the use?"e   :-)r  > > > Muglia said as part of a Microsoft-sponsored interview.=20 > "We're workingB > > with our partners to deploy more than 1,000 Itanium 2-based=20 > systems in9 > > our labs for 'Longhorn'-server test and development."e >=20E > PR gobbledeegook. They are thinking about talking to partners aboutr? > deploying IA64 boxes. Not the same as "We've deployed 1000=20  > IA64 boxes inu > our labs".  ) Nope. Re-read the statement they made.=20s   >=20B > > And in case, anyone thinks Intel is hurting right now which=20 > might make? > > them change any strategies they have currently in place,=20- > their business/ > > update today certainly indicates otherwise:  >=20F > Their IA64 strategy became quite clear in early 2004. You are right,F > they have no need to change that strategy because it is to phase out= > IA64 by 2007 when the 8086 will be just as capable as IA64.  >=20  E Everything official that comes out of Intel states otherwise, but you,G are free to speculate on all of the black helicopter theories you like,r= because this is a newsgroup and that goes with the territory.o   :-)o   [snip..]   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660a Fax: 613-591-4477t kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 22:49:15 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm= Message-ID: <0bednXc-RaQxYjXfRVn-jw@metrocastcablevision.com>l   Main, Kerry wrote: >>-----Original Message-----7 >>From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]   >>Sent: June 9, 2005 6:47 PM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt> >>Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm >> >>"Main, Kerry" wrote: >>? >>>Some share his negative view, others do not. Time will tell.p >>H >>Actually, I am quite positive. Intel continues to send out the signals6 >>that by 2007, the 8086 will be able to replace IA64  >>completely, and that* >>a port of vMS to the 8086 is inevitable. >> >  > G > Huh? Where in the world did you pull both of those little gems from? t > + > Please tell the rest of us where you saw:c > ; > 1. Where Intel has said 8086 will be able to replace IA64h  F Intel is developing a common system infrastructure which will support G both Itanic and IA32(extended) in the same socket (finally getting the aH on-chip routing and memory-controller facilities that POWER4/4+/5, EV7, I AMD64, and even SPARC have enjoyed for years already) and using the same rH chipsets.  It's looking more and more like Itanic may get to that party / kind of late, but IA32 should be there in 2007.5  F This means that whatever advantage Itanic may have enjoyed due to the I lack of credible high-end x86 systems will tend to vanish by that point, dD though in fact with IBM's currently-shipping Hurricane Xeon chipset H (which is hot on the heels of the top-of-the-line Itanic TPC-C score at A 4 processors and has just edged ahead of it at 8 processors - it eH supports up to 32 sockets, but they are apparently working their way up G the benchmark slowly) and the imminent appearance of the Horus Opteron  I chipset (also up to 32 sockets), plus whatever larger Opteron facilities tG Sun has in its back pocket that Andy B. has been working on for years,  D one might suggest that any such advantage is being seriously eroded  starting right now.n     and,B > 2. Where Intel or HP or anyone (besides yourself) in any type ofD > official position that has stated a port of OpenVMS to the 8086 is
 > inevitable.r  H That's certainly a more justifiable challenge.  It's probably as likely I that HP will just let VMS sink with Itanic as it is that they'll port it KC again, and of course there's also the possibility that Itanic will H wallow along for years yet.N   ...   J > If AMD had this attitude about 4 years ago (when Intel was kicking theirH > butt in the Mhz race), they would have simply given up and said "whats > the use?"o  I I think you may be a bit confused about where AMD was about 4 years ago: vD   they were sitting pretty with performance that Pentium could only G dream about (and had been pretty much since Athlon debuted in 1999 and    started pulling away from PIII).  I Pentium 4 had just appeared (at 1.5 GHz, vs. Athlon's 1.2 GHz, IIRC) and  I while it offered a few more MHz than Athlon the performance was just not yE there (and remained not there throughout P4's 180 nm. life, where it a topped out at just 2 GHz).   ...r  F >>Their IA64 strategy became quite clear in early 2004. You are right,F >>they have no need to change that strategy because it is to phase out= >>IA64 by 2007 when the 8086 will be just as capable as IA64.r >> >  > > > Everything official that comes out of Intel states otherwise  H Perhaps it would be instructive for you to contemplate the similarities F with everything official that came out of Compaq about Alpha prior to @ June 25, 2001 - and the foreshadowing that all those 'official' > pronouncements were clearly aimed at getting people to ignore.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:01:27 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm, Message-ID: <42A91E7B.E5BFDEEC@teksavvy.com>   Rob Young wrote:C >         Of course not.  No more than the port of HP/UX and NSK toAG >         8086 is inevitable.  Enterprise architectures aren't switched @ >         out whimsically - it costs way too much money and your# >         customer base gets antsy.     F I agree. Point is that for the last couple of years, HP and Intel haveF been sending consistant signals that IA64 was not a long term solutionE and that its market potential was shrinking and that the 8086 was thePB long term solution with an expanding market into 64 bit enterpriseC computing.  Neither HP nor Intel have tried very hard to negate them* rumours sent out by the press about IA64.   E The high costs of continued development of IA64 are not worth the lowyE volume revenus, especially when you consider that the 8086 is quicklyN closing the gap.  F HP and Intel can't pull out of IA64 just like that. For one thing, theF 8086 isn't ready yet, and HP has learned it lesson not to commit to anE architecture until it is ready. But the signals are that by 2007, thes? 8086 will be scalable to very large machines, the same as IA64.e  H For HP, all of the reasons used to move all its OS's to IA64 can be used- to justify moving them to the 8086 from IA64. ' 	-reduce number of platforms to supports' 	-use commodity industry standard chipsaH 	-user open architecture with competition that drives performance up and prices down.  G In terms of the costs of multiple ports, consider NSK. Pfeiffer stopped G the port of NSK to IA64 and directed a port to Alpha. Then Curly cannednG that and that re-instated the port to IA64. So, the short term lifetimed3 of HP-UX, NSK and VMS on IA64 won't be a precedent.m  G Mr Main seemed worried about my talking about an obvious port of VMS tomH the 8086: Do not worry, my statements are simply derived from hints thatE are very public and I am not privy to any NDA information, nor have IiD ever visited the secret basement of ZKO where the secret port to theC 8086 is underway :-) If a port of VMS to the 8086 isn't underway ord being considered, it should.  C Whenever a vendor has to make some promises that a product won't befF killed in the next few years, it means that there are credible rumours  that the product is not viable.   H Nobody is questioning Intel's true intentions with the 8086.  It doesn'tG need to promise that the 8086 will survive beyond its current technicalsD roadmap because nobody is questioning the chip's commercial success.    Such is not the case for IA64.    G However, I think that if you were to poll VMS customers about a port tohG the 8086, you'd probably find very strong support and this would reallym) make it much easier to grow VMS big time.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 15:58:20 -0400b' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>P9 Subject: Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!)e0 Message-ID: <11ah7nqe33ipbcb@corp.supernews.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: >>-----Original Message-----? >>From: norm.raphael@metso.com [mailto:norm.raphael@metso.com] y >>Sent: June 9, 2005 11:41 AM  >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp; >>Subject: RE: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!)  >>D >>"Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote on 06/09/2005 11:26:16 AM: >> >> >>>>-----Original Message-----3 >>>>From: Syltrem [mailto:syltremzulu@videotron.ca]n >>>>Sent: June 9, 2005 10:49 AMs >>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = >>>>Subject: Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!)  >>>>@ >>>>"Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> a crit dans le message deB >>>>news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6508B7@tayexc19.americas. >>>>cpqcorp.net... >>>> >>>h >>>[snip...] >>>s  F What's interesting is that triple dubya never gave any details of the J 'migration', but there has been plenty of advice on how to do the unknown.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadg Vanderbilt, PA  15486A   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:10:26 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>e7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 4b, Message-ID: <42A9047D.EB919CE9@teksavvy.com>   Didier Morandi wrote:p > # > http://didier.morandi.free.fr/d4/m    ; Thanks for the pictures... Do you have one of Ann McQuaid ?i   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:41:44 +0000 (UTC)eP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)6 Subject: two TCPIP cluster aliases in the same cluster$ Message-ID: <d8b96n$6h3$1@online.de>  I Is there any reason I can't have one set of nodes with one TCPIP cluster 9G alias, and another set with another TCPIP cluster alias, all the nodes   in the same VMS cluster?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:09:57 -0500i2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: vms and linux+ Message-ID: <42A8DA54.93B52B5E@comcast.net>t   Syltrem wrote: > K > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> a crit dans le message del' > news:42A7A42D.CA1637F5@comcast.net...a > > Disinfo wrote: > > >- > > > hallo,G > > > im' looking for any links or suggestions to be able to connect mye0 > > > microvax3100 with vms, to my server linux.< > > > i made a lot of research but without enaught answeres.
 > > > thank'sr > >  > > Um, TCP/IP?  > >>C > > Terse questions beget terse answers. What are you trying to do?o > >y > @ > You may possibly be thinking about Samba without knowing it... > www.samba.org,  H I didn't origin ally associate Samba with TCP/IP, my first thought thereH would be SMB, which I believe is M$-proprietary. Dunno if its carried in& TCP/IP or not. Gotta study up on it...   -- t David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems( http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:e" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:43:11 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)( Subject: why are alias names a bad idea?$ Message-ID: <d8b99f$6h3$2@online.de>  H Why does the HELP in TCPIP strongly recommend against using alias names G with the destination parameter or the /GATEWAY=host qualifier with the - command TCPIP SET ROUTE?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:58:22 -0000D/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> " Subject: Re: Xterm and Motif 1.3-10 Message-ID: <11ahlsurtd4jte4@corp.supernews.com>  , Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> wrote:  H > Is anyone else still using xterm with a 7.3-2 or later version of VMS?E > Does anyone have any ideas about what changed with Motif 1.3-1 that & > could cause this?  Or how to fix it?  K It's probably not Motif, since xterm doesn't (in general) use that library.    -- t Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net_ ftp://invisible-island.net   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.321 ************************u pay less. Above it, you pay more.   G In other news, I see the Canadian Supreme Court struck down the OttawajD65|H1`C2	FnUp^ZIMʄj6zi
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