1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 10 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 322       Contents:
 Re: a sad day 
 RE: a sad day  Best practices monthly post?  Re: Best practices monthly post?  Re: Best practices monthly post? cluster over DSL Re: cluster over DSL$ Re: Industry standard is ridiculous!$ Re: Industry standard is ridiculous!3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm  Re: minimize VMS footprint Re: minimize VMS footprint Re: minimize VMS footprint Re: minimize VMS footprint Re: minimize VMS footprint7 MONAD --  Windows may become manageable, eventually :-) . Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 41 Re: two TCPIP cluster aliases in the same cluster 1 Re: two TCPIP cluster aliases in the same cluster  RE: vms and linux  Re: vms and linux # Re: why are alias names a bad idea? # Re: why are alias names a bad idea? # Re: why are alias names a bad idea?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:09:59 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>  Subject: Re: a sad dayE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506101005330.30765@localhost.localdomain>    On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, Z wrote:  B > In other news, I see the Canadian Supreme Court struck down the F > Ottawa law prohibiting private health care. Seems the waiting lines C > in the Canadian health care system are so long that the Canadian  D > people are now clamoring to be allowed (it was _illegal_!) to pay @ > for private health care.  (NY Times: http://tinyurl.com/7qo65)  C Some analysts say that it was only the Quebec law that was "struck   down".  Time will tell.   E Apparently Canadian Health Care spending was already 70% public, 30%  > private, according to an interview with Roy Romanow yesterday.     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:19:54 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: a sad dayR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB65096D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Rob Brown [mailto:mylastname@gmcl.com]=20  > Sent: June 10, 2005 12:10 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Re: a sad day >=20 > On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, Z wrote: >=20F > > In other news, I see the Canadian Supreme Court struck down the=20J > > Ottawa law prohibiting private health care. Seems the waiting lines=20G > > in the Canadian health care system are so long that the Canadian=20 H > > people are now clamoring to be allowed (it was _illegal_!) to pay=20B > > for private health care.  (NY Times: http://tinyurl.com/7qo65) >=20G > Some analysts say that it was only the Quebec law that was "struck=20  > down".  Time will tell.  >=20I > Apparently Canadian Health Care spending was already 70% public, 30%=20 @ > private, according to an interview with Roy Romanow yesterday. >=20 >=20 > --=20  >=20D > Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mC > G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 8 > Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)7 >                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 4 >                                   http://gmcl.com/ >=20  F Not sure what all of this has to do with OpeVMS, but since there was aD semi-related earlier discussion in the thread about health benefits,) perhaps this is not totally out of place.   B Interesting review in local paper after the Canadian Supreme Court# decision was handed down yesterday.   G Essentially it stated that of the top 30 developed countries, there are D only 2 that have not yet officially adopted the concept of universalC health care for all of its citizens - Mexico and the United States.   H What was really at stake here in Canada with this decision is whether toC allow those that can afford it to take advantage of private medical E facilities. There are debateable pro's-n-con's of doing this, but the G article went on to point out that the other countries that have adopted C universal medical aid for their citizens, only Canada did not allow H citizens to access private medical facilities as an option to the public health care system.   F Hence, the article stated that this decision would either speed up theH process to allow private facility access or force the multiple layers ofE Govt to fix waiting times. Given that the latter will require massive G amounts of funding, I suspect that the former (with guidelines and some A restrictions) will gain a lot of momentum with this Supreme Court 	 decision.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:57:23 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> % Subject: Best practices monthly post? 4 Message-ID: <42a97214$0$20233$626a14ce@news.free.fr>  D I had many discussions with folks here in Nashua during the OpenVMS G Sueposium (this expression is (c) 2005 Hoff :-) and it appears that HP  H would like to promote the ITRC forums as a free online information (and  unofficial support) solution.   " The ITRC forum is reachable here: D http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/familyhome.do?familyId=288  E This leads me to ask your advice on posting here in c.o.v. a monthly  D "best practices" message which would give some info to the newbies, ( among them that link to the ITRC Forums.   What do you think?  F Btw, Hoff confirmed during a session (this *is* public info) that the I Ask The Wizard (ATW) solution to get online VMS related techical answers  : is no more the preferred one. ITRC Forums would be better.  H However, there is a slight difference. Everyone in here knows that most H of the ATW answers actually come from Hoff, who is an HP person. In the < ITRC Forums, you'll get most of the answers from these guys:  - http://didier.morandi.free.fr/d4/DSC02093.htm   G who are not, but Sue, who is however more than happy to participate in   c.o.v.   D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:44:24 GMT + From: Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> ) Subject: Re: Best practices monthly post? A Message-ID: <Irjqe.2358$jX6.838@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>    Didier Morandi wrote: E > I had many discussions with folks here in Nashua during the OpenVMS H > Sueposium (this expression is (c) 2005 Hoff :-) and it appears that HPI > would like to promote the ITRC forums as a free online information (and  > unofficial support) solution.  > # > The ITRC forum is reachable here: F > http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/familyhome.do?familyId=288 > F > This leads me to ask your advice on posting here in c.o.v. a monthlyE > "best practices" message which would give some info to the newbies, * > among them that link to the ITRC Forums. >  > What do you think? > G > Btw, Hoff confirmed during a session (this *is* public info) that the J > Ask The Wizard (ATW) solution to get online VMS related techical answers< > is no more the preferred one. ITRC Forums would be better. > I > However, there is a slight difference. Everyone in here knows that most I > of the ATW answers actually come from Hoff, who is an HP person. In the > > ITRC Forums, you'll get most of the answers from these guys: > / > http://didier.morandi.free.fr/d4/DSC02093.htm  > H > who are not, but Sue, who is however more than happy to participate in > c.o.v. >  > D. >   H It's not clear to me why those on c.o.v. whould willingly participate inH its disembowelment. From a quick survey of the HP forum, it appears thatI the S/N ratio is only marginally improved with a different kind of noise.   C A strobe is fine. Perhaps the message should also indicate that the E destination is a (moderated, no?) non-official support forum (despite  being hosted by HP)    Plus ca chose, jec    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:27:47 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> ) Subject: Re: Best practices monthly post? 7 Message-ID: <8660a3a105061010275f1f30ed@mail.gmail.com>   8 On 6/10/05, Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> wrote: > Didier Morandi wrote: G > > I had many discussions with folks here in Nashua during the OpenVMS J > > Sueposium (this expression is (c) 2005 Hoff :-) and it appears that HPK > > would like to promote the ITRC forums as a free online information (and ! > > unofficial support) solution.  > > % > > The ITRC forum is reachable here: J > > http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/familyhome.do?familyId=3D288 > > H > > This leads me to ask your advice on posting here in c.o.v. a monthlyG > > "best practices" message which would give some info to the newbies, , > > among them that link to the ITRC Forums. > >  > > What do you think? > > I > > Btw, Hoff confirmed during a session (this *is* public info) that the L > > Ask The Wizard (ATW) solution to get online VMS related techical answer= s > > > is no more the preferred one. ITRC Forums would be better. > > K > > However, there is a slight difference. Everyone in here knows that most K > > of the ATW answers actually come from Hoff, who is an HP person. In the @ > > ITRC Forums, you'll get most of the answers from these guys: > > 1 > > http://didier.morandi.free.fr/d4/DSC02093.htm  > > J > > who are not, but Sue, who is however more than happy to participate in
 > > c.o.v. > >  > > D. > >  >=20J > It's not clear to me why those on c.o.v. whould willingly participate inJ > its disembowelment. From a quick survey of the HP forum, it appears thatK > the S/N ratio is only marginally improved with a different kind of noise.  >=20E > A strobe is fine. Perhaps the message should also indicate that the G > destination is a (moderated, no?) non-official support forum (despite  > being hosted by HP)  >=20 > Plus ca chose, > jec  >=20  D Considering what goes on here some of the time, perhaps it's time to) newgroup alt.rants.by.cov.participants...    (ducks, runs for cover)    WWWebb   --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:03:58 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: cluster over DSL $ Message-ID: <d8bagd$6h3$3@online.de>  D With 6 kb/s DSL being offered dor EUR 25 per month, I was wondering I whether, when 10 kb/s (in both directions) is possible, one could set up  5 a VPN and set up a cluster with SCS running over DSL.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:31:10 +0200 3 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com>  Subject: Re: cluster over DSL * Message-ID: <42a898bf@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  M "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>  / wrote in message news:d8bagd$6h3$3@online.de... E > With 6 kb/s DSL being offered dor EUR 25 per month, I was wondering J > whether, when 10 kb/s (in both directions) is possible, one could set up7 > a VPN and set up a cluster with SCS running over DSL.  >   H If you can bridge the connection. SCS is not routable, so you need some M encapsulation magic to transfer ethernet packets between sites. But it would  # be fine idea to make this possible.    Best, Gorazd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:28:52 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> - Subject: Re: Industry standard is ridiculous! = Message-ID: <42a9413c$0$78281$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > "Main, Kerry" wrote:H > You must also look at why servers were so numerous in the first place.I > Yes, Windows unreliability resulted in the "one app one server" mantra. C > But more importantly, political turfs resulted in each department J > wanting full control over their servers, especially since you coudl hire3 > any windows teenage weenie to manage those boxes.  > E > This, on the heels of the days where departments were in a constant H > fight against the central MIS departments who constantly said "NO" andJ > imposed pesky standards for stability and safety which could be ingnoredH > once the department had its own boxes and could progress at full speed+ > without MIS putting sticks in ist wheels.   H A second problem is that in the windows world, you normally do not know H what installation scripts do to your machines.  Thus when you install a G new service you do it at the risk of screwing up other services.  then  C it is a pain to find out why the two services do not work together.   H Thirdly, in most cases you have to reboot your Windows after installing I new software, but that means interrupting service on other services, and  C relegating installation of software to evenings and weekends costs  H money, because of lost flexibility and because the IT people will do it + only for so long without getting extra pay.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:42:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Industry standard is ridiculous! , Message-ID: <42A9444B.D945B9CE@teksavvy.com>   Karsten Nyblad wrote: I > Thirdly, in most cases you have to reboot your Windows after installing J > new software, but that means interrupting service on other services, andD > relegating installation of software to evenings and weekends costsI > money, because of lost flexibility and because the IT people will do it - > only for so long without getting extra pay.   D Sorry to day that a serious shop , even with VMS, will also make anyE major changes overnight, preferably saturday evening so that there is G plenty of time to test and revert to previous version if it fails , all  before monday morning.  C Yeah, I remember the days where I went from MicroVMS 4.7 to VMS 5.0 F during lunchtime the day I got the TK50s  and the staff barely noticedE the downtime. I was very lucky (and naive !, I had not read about the  VAXorcist back then !)  E But now, I know better.  Obviously, if you have a true 7/24 operation G where night is no different than daytime, then you have to find upgrade M strategies that can be done during production (in a cluster, this is easier).   A But for most shops, you may not have the luxury of a cluster with G multiple boot nodes and test nodes where you can fully test the upgrade * before putting it on the production nodes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:34:29 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm= Message-ID: <42a95ead$0$67263$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Rob Young wrote:^ > In article <42A8C6E7.DF1918EC@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:, > 	No more than the port of HP/UX and NSK to@ > 	8086 is inevitable.  Enterprise architectures aren't switched9 > 	out whimsically - it costs way too much money and your  > 	customer base gets antsy.  B True.  However, how many companies do you think has a strategy of H betting their business on Itanic?  It would be lightheaded to have such D a strategy before Itanic has demonstrated that it can generate more F profit to Intel than what it costs in ongoing development, marketing, F etc.  Thus HP can move away from Itanic now, but the longer they wait ! the more customers will be angry.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:53:06 +0200 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm= Message-ID: <42a9630a$0$78279$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Main, Kerry wrote:@ > 1. Where Intel has said 8086 will be able to replace IA64 and, > G > Everything official that comes out of Intel states otherwise, but you I > are free to speculate on all of the black helicopter theories you like, ? > because this is a newsgroup and that goes with the territory.   I Hmm.  Every month has its The Inquirer story about how Intel and HP kill  E their Itanic projects, while moving their talented chip designers to  E x86.  As Bill Todd has already pointed out, it has already announced  B that x86 and IA64 will be capable of using the same chip sets and B perhaps even be plug compatible.  Further, both AMD and Intel are I working hard to put more cores on each chip.  Itanic might be capable of  D keeping up to the competition on a core per core basis,  but do you B really think one Itanic chip with e.g. 2 cores will be capable of 3 beating one Xeon or Opteron chip with with 4 cores?   F I really think it is you who should tell us why you think that Itanic * will stay faster on big machines than x86.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Jun 2005 04:18:46 -0700# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarmC Message-ID: <1118402326.444647.243970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Karsten Nyblad wrote:  > Main, Kerry wrote: >  > > ...  > J > Hmm.  Every month has its The Inquirer story about how Intel and HP killF > their Itanic projects, while moving their talented chip designers to > x86.  G Wow. If HP is able to move their talented chip designers to Intel every G month, then HP must itself have a pretty steady influx of talented chip 
 designers!   :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:59:13 +0200 3 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm= Message-ID: <42a98ea3$0$67258$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Galen wrote: > Karsten Nyblad wrote:  >> Main, Kerry wrote:  >> >>> ...  >>F >> Hmm.  Every month has its The Inquirer story about how Intel and HP? >> kill their Itanic projects, while moving their talented chip  >> designers to x86. > C > Wow. If HP is able to move their talented chip designers to Intel A > every month, then HP must itself have a pretty steady influx of  > talented chip designers! >  > :-)   G Not that I have been following too closely, but does HP have any left ?   	 Dr. Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:10:09 +0200 3 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm, Message-ID: <42a8da20$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  I > Further, both AMD and Intel are working hard to put more cores on each  L > chip.  Itanic might be capable of keeping up to the competition on a core M > per core basis,  but do you really think one Itanic chip with e.g. 2 cores  H > will be capable of beating one Xeon or Opteron chip with with 4 cores? > M > I really think it is you who should tell us why you think that Itanic will  ' > stay faster on big machines than x86.   F Funs about more cores on x86 and chips, that follow common cache line  strategies, can be found here:  +   http://www.daemonology.net/papers/htt.pdf   ?   http://www.daemonology.net/hyperthreading-considered-harmful/    Best, Gorazd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:48:32 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm+ Message-ID: <d8ccoh$d7f$1@naig.caltech.edu>    Main, Kerry wrote:  J > However, other vendors that have also made recent positive announcements$ > wrt to Itanium's future potential- > 6 > - SGI Announces new Itanium Workstation: April, 2005  > Now there's a vendor known for making wise business decisions!   <SNIP>    H > And in case, anyone thinks Intel is hurting right now which might makeI > them change any strategies they have currently in place, their business - > update today certainly indicates otherwise: B > http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20050609corp.htmI > "SANTA CLARA, Calif., June 9, 2005 -- Intel Corporation expects revenue H > for the second quarter to be between $9.1 billion and $9.3 billion, asA > compared to the previous range of $8.6 billion to $9.2 billion, C > primarily driven by ongoing strong demand for notebook products."   8 Even so, Itanium is a money pit and Intel knows it.  AMDD called Intel's Itanium bluff and Intel is in the process of throwing= in those cards. It's clear to all but the true believers that I there finally is an "industry standard" architecture and it's x86. Apple  C migrating to x86 just further confirms it.  (That doesn't mean that F Intel is the industry standard though, other than by marketing clout, H since there are also x86 processors from AMD and VIA.)  HP will probablyG keep its head firmly in the sand and erase the remaining VMS, HPUX, and G even Tandem markets.  Maybe someday somebody at HP will ask: what from  G the CUSTOMER'S perspective is the advantage of running on Itanium over   x86?   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:02:07 -0400 # From: BC Berry <nobody@spamcop.net> # Subject: Re: minimize VMS footprint 8 Message-ID: <6vuia1d67suso1ncmqjm03e1b00g9kh4b5@4ax.com>  1 On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:19:52 -0500, Chris Scheers " <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:   >BC Berry wrote:G >> I am working on a VMS 6.2 Alpha system which runs as a kiosk. It was D >> already a tight fit disk space wise and I am locked into existingI >> hardware so a larger disk is not possible. I am attempting to minimize I >> the VMS footprint on the system disk. Is there any documentation as to F >> which VMS files are unnecessary when the system is used as a kiosk?/ >> (sys$examples files, object libraries, ....)  > # >Have you run SYS$UPDATE:VMSTAILOR?   B DEC used polycenter on ALPHA VMS 6.2 so VMSKITBLD doesn't work andC VMSTAILOR don't exist - unless there is a way I don't know about to A install them - it's been a while since I did any system installs. A However, thanks for the suggestion. While I was looking around in D SYS$UPDATE, I found what appears to be bits and pieces of  VMSTAILOR< that still are on the disk and they hint at which files were deleted/retained during a trim.  --O E-mail address is invalid due to spam overflow - Please reply in the newsgroup.  --   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:24:20 -0400 # From: BC Berry <nobody@spamcop.net> # Subject: Re: minimize VMS footprint 8 Message-ID: <bi1ja15teaem8olbfdq1nris7vucq4hquo@4ax.com>  @ On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 05:48:41 +0800, prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:  & >BC Berry <nobody@spamcop.net> writes: > G >> I am working on a VMS 6.2 Alpha system which runs as a kiosk. It was D >> already a tight fit disk space wise and I am locked into existing@ >> hardware so a larger disk is not possible. I am attempting to> >> minimize the VMS footprint on the system disk. Is there anyF >> documentation as to which VMS files are unnecessary when the systemD >> is used as a kiosk?  (sys$examples files, object libraries, ....) > F >Well, the extra CPU images in sys$ldr, all of sys$help, make sure all? >the .xLB's in sys$share are compressed, get rid of most of the  >development stuff.  > G >But at the end of it all, swap and page file size will eat you anyway.  > / >Spend $35 on a 9GB disk and GIVE it to them...   C The swap/page file space appears to be OK on the existing system. I C just need to add some new program mods/data files and have the free C disk space after the changes come out the same or better than it is F now. I estimate 20 megabyte ought to do it for this update. However, IB already have request for another 180 Meg. I'd like to see just howC much space I can squeeze out so I can at least tell them what their 	 limit is.   C My plan - get rid of the development stuff, sample files, etc. What F I'm trying to determine is what's development and what's not. E.g. AreA any *.*LB or *.h or *.c or etc. files in SYS$LIBRARY required for C anything other than compiling and linking? I was hoping there was a D list somewhere indicating which files/libraries are used at boot/run% time as opposed to compile/link time.   @ I like the $35 idea. However, with 300+ stations plus spares. My pockets aren't that deep.  --O E-mail address is invalid due to spam overflow - Please reply in the newsgroup.  --   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Jun 2005 15:40:34 +0200C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) # Subject: Re: minimize VMS footprint 2 Message-ID: <42a99852$1@merkur.rz.uni-konstanz.de>  A In article <bi1ja15teaem8olbfdq1nris7vucq4hquo@4ax.com>, BC Berry  <nobody@spamcop.net> writes:A >On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 05:48:41 +0800, prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:  > ' >>BC Berry <nobody@spamcop.net> writes:  >>H >>> I am working on a VMS 6.2 Alpha system which runs as a kiosk. It wasE >>> already a tight fit disk space wise and I am locked into existing A >>> hardware so a larger disk is not possible. I am attempting to ? >>> minimize the VMS footprint on the system disk. Is there any G >>> documentation as to which VMS files are unnecessary when the system E >>> is used as a kiosk?  (sys$examples files, object libraries, ....)  >>G >>Well, the extra CPU images in sys$ldr, all of sys$help, make sure all @ >>the .xLB's in sys$share are compressed, get rid of most of the >>development stuff. >>H >>But at the end of it all, swap and page file size will eat you anyway. >>0 >>Spend $35 on a 9GB disk and GIVE it to them... > D >The swap/page file space appears to be OK on the existing system. ID >just need to add some new program mods/data files and have the freeD >disk space after the changes come out the same or better than it isG >now. I estimate 20 megabyte ought to do it for this update. However, I C >already have request for another 180 Meg. I'd like to see just how D >much space I can squeeze out so I can at least tell them what their
 >limit is. > D >My plan - get rid of the development stuff, sample files, etc. WhatG >I'm trying to determine is what's development and what's not. E.g. Are B >any *.*LB or *.h or *.c or etc. files in SYS$LIBRARY required forD >anything other than compiling and linking? I was hoping there was aE >list somewhere indicating which files/libraries are used at boot/run & >time as opposed to compile/link time. > A >I like the $35 idea. However, with 300+ stations plus spares. My  >pockets aren't that deep.  E You must not forget that *.c can be a part of vmsinstalable images...    eberhard   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:54:53 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)# Subject: Re: minimize VMS footprint 2 Message-ID: <05061008545381_20200298@antinode.org>  # From: BC Berry <nobody@spamcop.net>   E > My plan - get rid of the development stuff, sample files, etc. What H > I'm trying to determine is what's development and what's not. E.g. AreC > any *.*LB or *.h or *.c or etc. files in SYS$LIBRARY required for E > anything other than compiling and linking? I was hoping there was a F > list somewhere indicating which files/libraries are used at boot/run' > time as opposed to compile/link time.   G    The C compiler documentation suggests that it does "#include <>" for F system header files from text libraries, and that the loose ".h" filesF are optional, for your convenience only, so you should be able to lose6 those and gain a few MB, even on a development system.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:40:28 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) # Subject: Re: minimize VMS footprint 2 Message-ID: <Mviqe.6867$Mm2.5959@news.cpqcorp.net>  % BC Berry <nobody@spamcop.net> writes:   F > I am working on a VMS 6.2 Alpha system which runs as a kiosk. It wasC > already a tight fit disk space wise and I am locked into existing ? > hardware so a larger disk is not possible. I am attempting to = > minimize the VMS footprint on the system disk. Is there any E > documentation as to which VMS files are unnecessary when the system C > is used as a kiosk?  (sys$examples files, object libraries, ....)   G The OpenVMS Alpha kit includes a numer of options.  When you installed, H you probably selected all options, which is the default.  You can do the- following to find out what options you chose:   < $ product reconfigure VMS /source=SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON]  ( Take the default, "YES", to the question-     Do you want the defaults for all options?    Answer "YES" to the question&     Do you want to review the options?  G You will get a list of all the options with a "YES" or "NO" to indicate # that they are or are not installed.     DO NOT CONTINUE PAST THIS POINT!  4 ANSWER NO TO "Are you satisfied with these options?"1 and also to "Do you want to change any ooptions?" ! .. or just Ctrl-Y after the list.   G From this list you should be able to figure what you can safely exclude E in your situation.  I don't have the V6.2 installation manual, but it $ should also provide some information  A Unfortunately, I do not believe that V6.2 includes an easy way to F re-configure VMS.  (If you contiue the command above, I expect it willF fail and may leave your system unusable.)  So what you will have to doG is to boot the V6.2 kit (the CD).  Choose PRESERVE and I think you will H be able to re-install OpenVMS Alpna V6.2 on top of it self.  (Sort of an upgrade to the same version.)   F At some point in the PCSI installation (or "upgrade) you will be askedA if you want all the options.  I think the actual question may be:   #     Do you want to view the values?  or$     Do you want to chage the values?  E I appologize that I don't have the exact question, but I don't have a K V6.2 system availle to play with right now.  It should be clear in context. M If you have the V6.2 installation/upgrade manual it should be detailed there.   K In any case, you need to say YES to these questions.  Then you will be able ( to say NO to the options you don't want.  H If you need to see what files are in each option and sub-option, look atL the file [VMS$COMMON]DEC-APVMS-VMS-V00602--2.PCSI$DESCRIPTION.  DO NOT ALTERH THIS FILE!  Options and nested sub-options are contained with OPTION andJ END OPTION statements.  If you don't have the V6.2 CD, this might help you) to decide what files you can just delete.   H After you have re-done your system disk, it would robably be a very goodH idea to back it up and then restore it.  This will defragment your disk," which may free up even more space.   --J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Jun 2005 02:46:32 -0700 From: "Slo" <slovuj@gmail.com>@ Subject: MONAD --  Windows may become manageable, eventually :-)B Message-ID: <1118396792.188358.34790@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  E Monad, Microsft's new scripting language, interview with the authors:   R http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/chats/trans/windowsnet/wnet_120704.mspx   ... > Q: I've heard Monad has VMS roots... will we have a utility or
 functionality ? similar to VERB to create our own verb commands and parameters? @ A: We are very influenced by the VMS (and AS400) environments...  F Q: MSH introduces some big changes to the way we think about working - the 9 verb-noun model, database-like tabulation and querying...   = A: Clearly we are trying to reproduce the AS400/VMS-DCL model D where you spend a while learning the syntax and then you have it for life.  ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:47:21 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> 7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 4 4 Message-ID: <42a96fb9$0$20242$626a14ce@news.free.fr>  4 No, I don't. She came on Monday, I was in the plane.   D.   JF Mezei wrote:  > Didier Morandi wrote:a > # >>http://didier.morandi.free.fr/d4/m >  >  > = > Thanks for the pictures... Do you have one of Ann McQuaid ?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:28:13 +0200r3 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com>s: Subject: Re: two TCPIP cluster aliases in the same cluster, Message-ID: <42a8980d$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  M "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> t/ wrote in message news:d8b96n$6h3$1@online.de... J > Is there any reason I can't have one set of nodes with one TCPIP clusterH > alias, and another set with another TCPIP cluster alias, all the nodes > in the same VMS cluster? >t   Why not.  L You can hav as many cluster aliases (tcpip DNS cluster aliases) as you wish K and different nodes can participate in the cluster alias. You can have one CL node in more than one IP alias and a node that is not a member of any alias  if you wish.   Best, Gorazd   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Jun 2005 01:43:16 -07001 From: "Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl" <Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl>-: Subject: Re: two TCPIP cluster aliases in the same clusterC Message-ID: <1118392996.667857.102600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>R  , I think this came up already some weeks ago.  A If you have TCP/IP V5.4 or later, you can. With V5.3 or earlier I  seriously doubt it.s   Regards,  	 Bart Zorno  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:aJ > Is there any reason I can't have one set of nodes with one TCPIP clusterH > alias, and another set with another TCPIP cluster alias, all the nodes > in the same VMS cluster?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:22:15 -0400e# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>e Subject: RE: vms and linux: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDIEIGGHAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net]e' > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:10 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm > Subject: Re: vms and linux >s >i > Syltrem wrote: > >1J > > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> a =E9crit dans le mess= age de) > > news:42A7A42D.CA1637F5@comcast.net...  > > > Disinfo wrote: > > > >  > > > > hallo,I > > > > im' looking for any links or suggestions to be able to connect my92 > > > > microvax3100 with vms, to my server linux.> > > > > i made a lot of research but without enaught answeres. > > > > thank'se > > >e > > > Um, TCP/IP?  > > >-E > > > Terse questions beget terse answers. What are you trying to do?2 > > >e > >uB > > You may possibly be thinking about Samba without knowing it... > > www.samba.orgn >uJ > I didn't origin ally associate Samba with TCP/IP, my first thought ther= erJ > would be SMB, which I believe is M$-proprietary. Dunno if its carried i= n ( > TCP/IP or not. Gotta study up on it... >c > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >t  J SAMBA is an open source implementation of the SMB protocol. SMB is a netw= ork:J file system protocol akin to NFS, and is most definitly TCP/IP although t= heJ original IBM/MS implemetation used NETBUI. TCP/IP has pretty much supplan= tedaJ NETBUI in the current environment. As for M$ proprietary, they (M$), have=  madeiJ most of the spec public (it's based on IBM's Lanman to begin with) and ha= veJ documented it in a series of RFC's under the nom-de-plume of Common Inter= netLF File System (CIFS). They don't license it's use and there are numerousJ implementations for non-MS operating systems. Much like the way Digital t= reatedJ Decnet only more popular with the masses. I haven't used SAMBA for severa= l yearsfJ now - I believe the Eunuch's flavors have greatly improved in both functi= onalitynJ and robustness. Earlier versions were a bit flakey, due in some degree to=  voids- in the documentation of the protocol details.i   Dane   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:17:13 -0400t* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: vms and linux3 Message-ID: <4qgqe.2242$g4.32633@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>c  J > I didn't origin ally associate Samba with TCP/IP, my first thought thereJ > would be SMB, which I believe is M$-proprietary. Dunno if its carried in( > TCP/IP or not. Gotta study up on it... >e > --   > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systemsn > http://www.djesys.com/ >       That was confusing from my part.* I meant to answer to the OP, not you DavidI He said he wanted a way to have VMS and Linux to talk to each other and I  think Samba can do that.   --   Syltremi   OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 02:06:54 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>f, Subject: Re: why are alias names a bad idea?, Message-ID: <42A92DCE.3F03162D@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > I > Why does the HELP in TCPIP strongly recommend against using alias names4H > with the destination parameter or the /GATEWAY=host qualifier with the > command TCPIP SET ROUTE?  A I suspicion is that a host name would get translated to a real IP H address upon startup of the stack. Since a VMS machine can remain up forP very long, any changes to the host name would not be reflected until you reboot.  G I.e. your config may point to  router.chocolate.com, but the IP addressaB of the router was changed 6 months ago, NSLOOKUP gives you the newE address, but VMS would still route to the old one since it would havefI translated the name to an IP address 9 months ago when you last rebooted.r   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:15:10 +0000 (UTC)aP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply), Subject: Re: why are alias names a bad idea?$ Message-ID: <d8bb5e$6h3$4@online.de>  5 In article <42A92DCE.3F03162D@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezeit' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: *  K > > Why does the HELP in TCPIP strongly recommend against using alias namesaJ > > with the destination parameter or the /GATEWAY=host qualifier with the > > command TCPIP SET ROUTE? > C > I suspicion is that a host name would get translated to a real IPaJ > address upon startup of the stack. Since a VMS machine can remain up forR > very long, any changes to the host name would not be reflected until you reboot. > I > I.e. your config may point to  router.chocolate.com, but the IP address D > of the router was changed 6 months ago, NSLOOKUP gives you the newG > address, but VMS would still route to the old one since it would have:K > translated the name to an IP address 9 months ago when you last rebooted..  < Have you actually tried this and found that it doesn't work?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:36:10 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>s, Subject: Re: why are alias names a bad idea?, Message-ID: <42A942B3.54E72F99@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > Have you actually tried this and found that it doesn't work?  H The manual provides some examples where the /GATYEWAY is given as a hostF name. So it must work. The recommendation is against an alias (which I guess they mean a CNAME entry).   E But still, consider that the stack will not resolve a domain name forHH every packet that needs to be processed. The resolution from a host nameB to an IP address is done at one point in time (likely during stackH startup). not sure that the stack will update this at regular intervals.  F Furthermore, consider cases where a name points to multiple hosts. TheA IP address then becomes random if the DNS server does round robin 2 translation ging a different IP address each time.  F If the default route changes from one router to another, your best betF is simply to issue the correct TCPIP (or route) commands to change the  dynamic route to the new router.  E VMS also supports RIP (ROUTE-D) where you could sed packets to updatee the routes.r   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.322 ************************