1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 17 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 337       Contents: 7.3-2 extended dcl in 7.3-1 ? ! Re: 7.3-2 extended dcl in 7.3-1 ? ! Re: 7.3-2 extended dcl in 7.3-1 ? ! Re: 7.3-2 extended dcl in 7.3-1 ? ! Re: 7.3-2 extended dcl in 7.3-1 ?  ABS 3.0(b) documentation Re: ABS 3.0(b) documentation Re: ABS 3.0(b) documentation) Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request - Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request ) Avoiding domain mismatch (TCPIP Services) - Re: Avoiding domain mismatch (TCPIP Services) - Re: Avoiding domain mismatch (TCPIP Services) - Re: Avoiding domain mismatch (TCPIP Services) ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ! Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product ( Re: backup Hardware Encryption SCSI TAPE Re: Backup Procedure Backup Procedure Re: Backup Procedure Re: Backup Procedure Re: Backup Procedure Re: Backup Procedure Re: Backup Procedure Re: Backup Procedure Re: Backup Procedure Re: Backup Procedure Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question  Re: Backup question   Re: Batch utility to crop images  Re: Batch utility to crop images Re: cluster over DSL Re: cluster over DSL Re: cluster over DSL1 Compare this with the usual VMS 'success' stories 5 Re: Compare this with the usual VMS 'success' stories " Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s" Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s" Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s" Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s, Re: Determine who created a detached process5 Fortran90 READ failure using ADVANCE='NO', any ideas? 9 Re: Fortran90 READ failure using ADVANCE='NO', any ideas? 0 Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS won't install on DEC Multia0 Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS won't install on DEC Multia0 Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS won't install on DEC Multia0 Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS won't install on DEC Multia& HP Loses Storage Software Market Share HP World Re: HP World Re: HP World Re: HP World Re: HP World Re: HP World Re: HP World3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm 3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm ! Is the site www.openvms.org down? % Re: Is the site www.openvms.org down? % Re: Is the site www.openvms.org down? 0 Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!)0 Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!)0 Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!)0 Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!) Re: minimize VMS footprint+ Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC + Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC 2 Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product2 Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product2 Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product2 Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product2 Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product2 Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product2 Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product2 Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product1 Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 source listings... When???  Re: OpenVMS Boot Camp report Re: OpenVMS Boot Camp report4 Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 5/5 :-(4 Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 5/5 :-(4 Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 5/5 :-(4 Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 5/5 :-(( Re: Oracle 10gR1 available for Alpha VMS4 Refurbished Alpha Systems with VMS Licenses IN STOCK8 Re: Refurbished Alpha Systems with VMS Licenses IN STOCKC rsync and/or psync ports to VMS, other directory/disk replication?? G Re: rsync and/or psync ports to VMS, other directory/disk replication??  Re: Satellite MOP boot problem Re: Satellite MOP boot problem% Re: Satellite MOP boot problem: fixed : See a BA350 SCSCI disk on a satellite from its boot server SIR (was: Backup question) Re: SIR (was: Backup question) Re: SIR (was: Backup question) Re: SIR (was: Backup question) Re: Some DCL wish items # Re: swap PWS600au from Linux to VMS # Re: swap PWS600au from Linux to VMS + Re: TCPIP : Let RIP set the default route ? 4 Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster4 Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster4 Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster4 Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster4 Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster4 Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster4 Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster4 Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster! UAF> /ACCOUNT What's it used for? % Re: UAF> /ACCOUNT What's it used for?  unix script on VMS to DOS  Re: unix script on VMS to DOS  Re: unix script on VMS to DOS  Upgrade to VMS 4.6 Re: Upgrade to VMS 4.6 VT terminal user support tool ! Re: VT terminal user support tool ! Re: VT terminal user support tool . who created a detached process SET AUDIT WORKS; Re: wrong SCSI cable for PWS600 au (msg for Paul Sture too) ; Re: wrong SCSI cable for PWS600 au (msg for Paul Sture too) 2 Re: [RT] HP offers POLA for "virus-free computing"  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:47:33 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>& Subject: 7.3-2 extended dcl in 7.3-1 ?4 Message-ID: <d8reb5$k8l$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>  H I don't suppose the extended dcl lines of 7.3-2 ever made it to a 7.3-1 G patch, did they ? The ability to handle longer lines and symbols would  & be very useful for cgi procedures etc.H I've looked around, and can't find a patch, so I'm asking, more in hope  than anticipation.   Thanks,  Chris    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 03:20:58 -0700, From: "Cluster-Karl" <karl.rohwedder@gmx.de>* Subject: Re: 7.3-2 extended dcl in 7.3-1 ?C Message-ID: <1118917258.159554.164820@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Chris Sharman schrieb:I > I don't suppose the extended dcl lines of 7.3-2 ever made it to a 7.3-1 H > patch, did they ? The ability to handle longer lines and symbols would( > be very useful for cgi procedures etc.I > I've looked around, and can't find a patch, so I'm asking, more in hope  > than anticipation. > 	 > Thanks,  > Chris   E Since V7.3-1 is no longer supported, I would think, that extended DCL   would not make it to V7.3-1 (see, http://h71000.www7.hp.com/serv_support.html)  
 regards Kalle    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:27:26 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>* Subject: Re: 7.3-2 extended dcl in 7.3-1 ?4 Message-ID: <d8s28e$fri$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   Cluster-Karl wrote:  > Chris Sharman schrieb:I >>I don't suppose the extended dcl lines of 7.3-2 ever made it to a 7.3-1 H >>patch, did they ? The ability to handle longer lines and symbols would( >>be very useful for cgi procedures etc.I >>I've looked around, and can't find a patch, so I'm asking, more in hope  >>than anticipation. > G > Since V7.3-1 is no longer supported, I would think, that extended DCL " > would not make it to V7.3-1 (see. > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/serv_support.html)  C Well, true, it isn't now - but it was then (when 7.3-2 shipped) ...    Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:59:59 +0300 7 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> * Subject: Re: 7.3-2 extended dcl in 7.3-1 ?, Message-ID: <42b1b010$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  = "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in message . news:d8reb5$k8l$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...I > I don't suppose the extended dcl lines of 7.3-2 ever made it to a 7.3-1 H > patch, did they ? The ability to handle longer lines and symbols would( > be very useful for cgi procedures etc.I > I've looked around, and can't find a patch, so I'm asking, more in hope  > than anticipation. > 	 > Thanks,  > Chris   = Extended DCL requires changes in various parts of the O/S not : only DCL (RMS is one example). Also it requires a full O/S	 build....   ; The bottom line is EDCL is not available on V7.3-1 and will  probably never will.....   Guy    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:26:31 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> * Subject: Re: 7.3-2 extended dcl in 7.3-1 ?0 Message-ID: <11b462qhlfn96d1@corp.supernews.com>   Guy Peleg wrote:? > "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote in message 0 > news:d8reb5$k8l$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk... > I >>I don't suppose the extended dcl lines of 7.3-2 ever made it to a 7.3-1 H >>patch, did they ? The ability to handle longer lines and symbols would( >>be very useful for cgi procedures etc.I >>I've looked around, and can't find a patch, so I'm asking, more in hope  >>than anticipation. >>	 >>Thanks,  >>Chris  >  > ? > Extended DCL requires changes in various parts of the O/S not < > only DCL (RMS is one example). Also it requires a full O/S > build....  > = > The bottom line is EDCL is not available on V7.3-1 and will  > probably never will..... >  > Guy  >  >   * Well, you can look at it another way.  :-)  G There is a patch for V7.3-1 which will give you EDCL.  It's called VMS   V7.3-2.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:55:46 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> ! Subject: ABS 3.0(b) documentation 6 Message-ID: <8660a3a10506161255b0f16f4@mail.gmail.com>  9 Looking to complete my documentation, well, just because.   F I've got the ABSB30savesets from the Software Product Library, but theC documentation isn't there (except for installation guide in .ps and   cover letter and release notes.)  B And I don't have the documentation kits from the same time period.  4 Software Product Library I found it on is June 2000.   Thanks in advance,   WWWebb =20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:14:37 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>% Subject: Re: ABS 3.0(b) documentation A Message-ID: <42b2a28e$0$1134$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>    William Webb wrote:   ; > Looking to complete my documentation, well, just because.  > H > I've got the ABSB30savesets from the Software Product Library, but theE > documentation isn't there (except for installation guide in .ps and " > cover letter and release notes.) > D > And I don't have the documentation kits from the same time period. > 6 > Software Product Library I found it on is June 2000. >  > Thanks in advance, >  > WWWebb >   E > NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  > correspondence. E > All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for : > services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at% > http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/     C Compaq Archive Backup System for OpenVMS - June 2000 ODL - Sysworks B http://www.sysworks.com.au/swadm_dat_root/axpdocjun00/abs030b.html   Cheers!    Keith    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:53:35 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> % Subject: Re: ABS 3.0(b) documentation 7 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050617045312653608@mail.gmail.com>   : On 6/16/05, William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> wrote:; > Looking to complete my documentation, well, just because.  >=20H > I've got the ABSB30savesets from the Software Product Library, but theE > documentation isn't there (except for installation guide in .ps and " > cover letter and release notes.) >=20D > And I don't have the documentation kits from the same time period. >=206 > Software Product Library I found it on is June 2000. >=20 > Thanks in advance, >=20 > WWWebb >=20E > NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  > correspondence. E > All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for : > services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at% > http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/  >=20   FYI:=20   E I have received these privately, so no one else needs to do anything.    Thanks.    WWWebb       WWWebb --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 02:54:50 -07003 From: "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> 2 Subject: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement requestC Message-ID: <1118829290.696343.281300@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   D Mark Berryman started a thread for series of complex enhancements to@ DCL. My request is much simpler, so I will put it in a different thread.   D What I frequently find very useful (just now, in fact which is why ID got motivated to send this), is an extra qualifier to the DIFFERENCEB command, to further qualify the IGNORE qualifier. Something like..' DIFF /IGNORE=COMMENTS /NOQUOTED_STRINGS " .. or maybe to look for DCL-like..- DIFF /IGNORE=COMMENTS /EXCLUDE=QUOTED_STRINGS   D What I am trying to achieve is that DIFF ignores differences such as    $! Screw the file and     $! Fubar the file  D - but would simultaneously recognise and report a difference between    $ X = F$FAO("!12AS",fred) and     $ X = F$FAO("!16AS",fred)  @ - and AFAICT, there is no easy way to do this with DIFF as it is now.  @ - Any ideas? a Guy-special fix would be the best answer I guess.  
 - Cheers John    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:39:25 +0300 , From: Veli Korkko <vtk-poistatama-@netti.fi>6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request9 Message-ID: <wxUre.6078$P67.4161@reader1.news.jippii.net>    Big John wrote: F > Mark Berryman started a thread for series of complex enhancements toB > DCL. My request is much simpler, so I will put it in a different	 > thread.  > F > What I frequently find very useful (just now, in fact which is why IF > got motivated to send this), is an extra qualifier to the DIFFERENCED > command, to further qualify the IGNORE qualifier. Something like..) > DIFF /IGNORE=COMMENTS /NOQUOTED_STRINGS $ > .. or maybe to look for DCL-like../ > DIFF /IGNORE=COMMENTS /EXCLUDE=QUOTED_STRINGS  > F > What I am trying to achieve is that DIFF ignores differences such as >    $! Screw the file > and  >    $! Fubar the file > F > - but would simultaneously recognise and report a difference between >    $ X = F$FAO("!12AS",fred) > and  >    $ X = F$FAO("!16AS",fred) > B > - and AFAICT, there is no easy way to do this with DIFF as it is > now. > B > - Any ideas? a Guy-special fix would be the best answer I guess. >  > - Cheers John  > # well, that should be there already.    $ ty a.a,b.b $! Screw the file    DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]B.B;7    $! Fubar the file     ' $ diff a.a b.b/ign=comments/comment="!" & Number of difference sections found: 0% Number of difference records found: 0   I DIFFERENCES /IGNORE=(COMMENTS)/COMMENT_DELIMITERS=(EXCLAMATION)/MERGED=1-       DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]A.A;2-       DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]B.B;7   $ rename a.a,b.b *.com/log8 %RENAME-I-RENAMED, DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]A.A;2 renamed to  DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]A.COM;168 %RENAME-I-RENAMED, DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]B.B;7 renamed to  DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]B.COM;1  $ diff a.com b.com ************! File DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]A.COM;16       1   $! Screw the file ******  File DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]B.COM;1      1   $! Fubar the file ************  & Number of difference sections found: 1% Number of difference records found: 1     DIFFERENCES /IGNORE=()/MERGED=1-"      DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]A.COM;16-       DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]B.COM;1 $ diff a.com b.com/ign=comm & Number of difference sections found: 0% Number of difference records found: 0   ( DIFFERENCES /IGNORE=(COMMENTS)/MERGED=1-"      DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]A.COM;16-       DEV$SUPPORT:[KORKKO]B.COM;1    ) See $HELP DIFFERENCES /COMMENT_DELIMETERS      _veli    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 05:13:48 -07003 From: "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> 6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement requestC Message-ID: <1118837628.034522.286300@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   C Yes, I know about the /COMMENT_DELIMITER qualifier. Maybe I did not > explain myself very clearly. What I would like DIFF to do is..  # Say I had a file a.a with contents:       $! Screw the file    $ X = F$FAO("!12AS",fred)    # - and a file b.b with the contents:       $! Fubar the file    $ X = F$FAO("!16AS",fred)  D Then if I just do a straightforward DIFF without qualifiers, it says both lines are different.   C If I do DIFF/IGN=COMMENT/COMMENT_D=EXCLAMATION, it reports that the + files are identical, no differences at all.   ? However in DCL, the effect on line 1 in a.a is identical to the B effect of line 1 in b.b (i.e. no effect, they are comments), whileB the effect in DCL of line 2 in a.a is very different to the effect0 of line 2 in b.b (it sets X to a longer string).  A What I would like is for DIFF to recognise that if an exclamation = mark is inside a quoted string, then it does not indicate the D beginning of a comment, and any differences after it are significant and need to be reported.  ; That's what I can't do under the standard DCL DIFF command.    - John   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:22:20 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> 6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement requestE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506151021320.22342@localhost.localdomain>   & On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 hammond@not wrote:  # > O.K., this appears to be a "bug". F > If somebody will confirm this -- different resutls with and without E > the /COMMENT_DELIMITER quallifier -- I will enter a formal problem  E > report. However, I will not bet one way or the other on whether it  6 > will turn out to be reasonably possible to fix this.  @ I see the problem in 7.1, but I suppose you want a more current  version.     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:52:12 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) 6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request2 Message-ID: <gVZre.7155$tx7.3302@news.cpqcorp.net>  _ In article <d8plmp$4a6$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:  > A >"Charlie Hammond" <hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com> wrote in message - >news:zKXre.7143$No7.2261@news.cpqcorp.net...  > J >> If somebody will confirm this -- different resutls with and without theI >> /COMMENT_DELIMITER quallifier -- I will enter a formal problem report.  > T >Yes, it does. But then, "!" isn't a default comment delimiter for files with a null >extension.   F {sigh} Right you are, Richard.  Thank you for pointing out the obviousG for those of us (i.e. me) who were failing to see the woods because the  trees got in our line of sight.   , The original [problem/feature] is confirmed.
 Specifically:      F     DIFFERENCES /IGNORE=COMMENT sees a "!" in a .COM file (or any fileH     if /COMMENT=EXCLAIMATION is used) as a comment delimiter even if it 5     is part of an F$FAO directive in a quoted string.   E I have made a formal query about this and will report what I am told. K Frankly, my expectations for getting this fixed are not high, but sometimes I I get suprised.  If I don't post the responce within a week or so, please  remind me and I'll follow up.    --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 01:31:41 -07003 From: "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> 6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement requestC Message-ID: <1118910701.705221.178050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   E Precisely, you have hit the nail on the cigar exactly. That is a much C better description of the [problem/feature] than I managed. with my   pitiful obfuscatory terminology.  C The only danger I see in treating this as a bug to be fixed, rather @ than a requested enhancement, is you might be affecting backwardF compatibility. It seems inconceivable to me that anybody should preferG the current action, but if you just change it, you can almost guarantee B there will be some weirdo somewhere in the world who exploits this, anomalous behaviour for some arcane purpose.  D Thanks for the efforts you are making. I look forward to hearing the outcome of the query.    - John   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:26:38 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request3 Message-ID: <Bcqk+VD+7Oqk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   y In article <1118910701.705221.178050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> writes:   8 > Precisely, you have hit the nail on the cigar exactly.    Who has ?  With what statement ?  7 Please quote context and author when you make any post.   D Do not presume that everybody's newsreader is identical to your own.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 06:21:13 -07003 From: "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> 6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement requestC Message-ID: <1118928073.835228.213990@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   B Sorry about that. I am *still* not used to the dreadful new Google groups interface. $  -> The 'who' was <Charlie Hammond.> -> The 'statement'  was - <The original [problem/feature] is confirmed. 
 Specifically: H     DIFFERENCES /IGNORE=3DCOMMENT sees a "!" in a .COM file (or any fileI     if /COMMENT=3DEXCLAIMATION is used) as a comment delimiter even if it 7     is part of an F$FAO directive in a quoted string. >   D I actually read this group via info-vax email, not a newsreader. TheG only reason I always post via Google groups is that our Micros**t email B server (or maybe the firewall) always converts my messages to someC irritating format, even if I specifically ask for plain ASCII text.   3 One day I will get the hang of all this technology.  - John   Larry Kilgallen wrote:F In article <1118910701.705221.178...@f14g=AD2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,8 "Big John" <john.pow...@airwidesolutions.=ADcom> writes:8 > Precisely, you have hit the nail on the cigar exactly.      Who has ?  With what statement ?  7 Please quote context and author when you make any post.     D Do not presume that everybody's newsreader is identical to your own.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 06:56:07 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement requestC Message-ID: <1118930167.545187.132560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Big John wrote: D > Sorry about that. I am *still* not used to the dreadful new Google > groups interface.     G You probably clicked the Reply link at the bottom of the message. Don't F do that. Click "show options" and click THAT Reply link and you'll get the old message quoted.    [...]    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 06:56:11 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement requestC Message-ID: <1118930171.805674.295430@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Big John wrote: D > Sorry about that. I am *still* not used to the dreadful new Google > groups interface.     G You probably clicked the Reply link at the bottom of the message. Don't F do that. Click "show options" and click THAT Reply link and you'll get the old message quoted.    [...]    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 11:40:13 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request3 Message-ID: <lbFbbwbyiE1H@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <1118930167.545187.132560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >  >  > Big John wrote: E >> Sorry about that. I am *still* not used to the dreadful new Google  >> groups interface. >  > I > You probably clicked the Reply link at the bottom of the message. Don't H > do that. Click "show options" and click THAT Reply link and you'll get > the old message quoted.   B I am told that the Reply, Preview, Edit sequence will also do what is desired.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:10:17 +0200 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement request3 Message-ID: <004501c5731c$610715e0$994614ac@wat153>    Hello,   Charlie Hammond wrotes  # > O.K., this appears to be a "bug". E > If somebody will confirm this -- different resutls with and without  the > > G >/COMMENT_DELIMITER quallifier -- I will enter a formal problem report. F However, I > will not bet one way or the other on whether it will turn, out to be reasonably possible > to fix this.  @ The too lines are real different: $ x =f$fao("!25AS",fred) , $ x =f$fao("!16AS",fred). B 25 and 16 are different. Why should DIFF not find this difference?   Best regards R. Wingert    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2005 04:33:06 -07003 From: "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> 6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement requestB Message-ID: <1119007986.542856.57650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  F Hey fantastic! Thanks for that useful snippet. I will try it out rightD now. (If this message has any context attached then it worked! If itE didn't then nobody will understand what this message is about anyway,  so you can ignore it.)   - John  
 AEF wrote: > Big John wrote: F > > Sorry about that. I am *still* not used to the dreadful new Google > > groups interface.  >  > I > You probably clicked the Reply link at the bottom of the message. Don't H > do that. Click "show options" and click THAT Reply link and you'll get > the old message quoted.  >  > [...]    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:16:16 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> 6 Subject: Re: Another (simpler) DCL enhancement requestE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506171012240.13249@localhost.localdomain>   * On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Rudolf Wingert wrote:  B > The too lines are real different: $ x =f$fao("!25AS",fred) , $ x > =f$fao("!16AS",fred). D > 25 and 16 are different. Why should DIFF not find this difference?  = Create two .COM files (they *must* be .COM to illustrate the   importance of the problem):    A.COM  $ x =f$fao("!25AS",fred)   B.COM  $ x =f$fao("!16AS",fred)  " Now, try $ DIFFERENCES A.COM B.COM  ' Note that the differences are detected.   2 Now, try $ DIFFERENCES A.COM B.COM/IGNORE=COMMENTS  E Note that the differences are not detected, even though there are no  ! comments in these two .COM files.    Which is right?      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 21:00:34 -0700* From: "Alder" <TFTAJLLYMXZP@spammotel.com>2 Subject: Avoiding domain mismatch (TCPIP Services)C Message-ID: <1118808034.929828.153490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    $ tcpip show version  ;   HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 4 3   on a AlphaServer 1000A 4/266 running OpenVMS V7.3   G If my VMS box, "SZEGED", is behind a router that gets its "domain name" F from DYNDNS, where I've registered as "EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET", what is theB proper way to configure the domain in TCPIP Services?  There is noE "domain" on my LAN in the sense of a domain controller, just my Alpha ? running Samba's WINS service for the PCs on a peer-to-peer LAN.   G It seems impossible to avoid entering a domain name using TCPIP$CONFIG, = so I've tried using both "EREBUS" (the PC's workgroup name in B Windows-speak) and "EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET".  In both cases, the "LocalF domain: *Mismatch*" meesage appears when I query the state of the nameD service.  I wanted to avoid entering a domain entirely, but the BINDD Resolver configuration routines in TCPIP$CONFIG insist on SOMETHING.  G Can I find out what sources TCPIP Services is comparing in order for it   to conclude there is a mismatch?  ' Some config info that might be helpful:   E I run the DHCP Client against the router's DHCP service, but config'd A the router to offer the same address to the Alpha each time.  The D router's internal IP address is 192.168.0.1 and that's the address I9 use for the default gateway and the BIND Resolver server.   C I have just now deleted all TCPIP$*.DAT files and reconfigured, but  TCPIP Services reports:     $ tcpip show config name_service   BIND Resolver Configuration      Transport:  UDP 	   Domain:    Retry:         4   Timeout:       4   Servers:    192.168.0.1    Path:       No values defined  $ tcpip show name_service    BIND Resolver Parameters    Local domain: * Mismatch *     System      State:     Started, Enabled      Transport: UDP   Domain:    EREBUS    Retry:     4   Timeout:   4   Servers:    DI524    Path:       No values defined     Process     State:     Enabled     Transport:	   Domain:    Retry:
   Timeout:
   Servers:   Path:   - $ TCPIP SHOW CONFIGURATION INTERFACE/FULL WE0     Interface: WE0 ?    IP_Addr:                   NETWRK:                   BRDCST: ?     C_Addr:                 C_NETWRK:                 C_BRDCST:        Flags:           DHCP PRIMARY    Receive buffer:            0    $ TCPIP SHOW INTERFACE/FULL WE0   Interface: WE0 ?    IP_Addr: 192.168.0.3       NETWRK: 255.255.255.0     BRDCST: 
 192.168.0.255 E                        Ethernet_Addr: 00-00-F8-21-DA-F8    MTU:  1500 *      Flags: UP BRDCST NOTRL RUN MCAST SMPX5                                   RECEIVE        SEND 5    Packets                           1800         408 5      Errors                             0           0 )    Collisions:                          0   ( $ TCPIP SHOW CONFIGURATION COMMUNICATION   Communication Configuration   8 Local host:                             Domain:   EREBUS   Cluster timer:               0  9 Interfaces:                  0          Type:     Default  Device_sockets:              0 Routes:                      0 Services:                    0 Proxies:                     0  4                           Free     Maximum   Minimum4 Large buffers                0           0         04 Small buffers                0           0         0* IRPs                         0           0 Non TCPIP buffers            0   Remote Terminal    Large buffers:             0   UCBs:                      0   Virtual term:     disabled   $ TCPIP SHOW COMMUNICATION   Communication Parameters  8 Local host:                             Domain:   EREBUS  @                                  Maximum     Current        Peak( Proxies                               20     Remote Terminal    Large buffers:           0   UCBs:                    0   Virtual term:     disabled   $ TCPIP SHOW HOST/LOCAL         LOCAL database    Host address    Host name    192.168.0.1     DI524, di524 192.168.0.5     ISZKAZ, iszkaz 192.168.0.4     KIRALY, kiraly$ 127.0.0.1       LOCALHOST, localhost 192.168.0.3     SZEGED, szeged    . Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks,    Alder    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 22:35:54 -0700* From: "Alder" <TFTAJLLYMXZP@spammotel.com>6 Subject: Re: Avoiding domain mismatch (TCPIP Services)B Message-ID: <1118986554.314312.60260@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  C Thanks to your guidance, JF, and a closer look at TFM, I seem to be E getting a lot closer.  Following your examples, and the manual, I set D up my TCPIP$BIND.CONF file and zone files (see below), and restartedA the whole shebang.  I think I have the BIND server configured ok, E judging from the lack of error messages in the run log, but I'm still G having some problems with routing and DNS.  I'll post my log and config C file contents in the hopes someone spot the problem, or let me know $ what further info I need to provide.   Thanks.   1 ---- TCPIP config and volatile settings ---------  $ TCPIP SHOW HOST/LOCAL         LOCAL database    Host address    Host name    192.168.0.1     DI524, di524 192.168.0.5     ISZKAZ, iszkaz 192.168.0.4     KIRALY, kiraly$ 127.0.0.1       LOCALHOST, localhost 192.168.0.3     SZEGED, szeged   $ TCPIP SHOW ROUTE/PERMANENT  &                              PERMANENT  < Type           Destination                           Gateway  1 PN    0.0.0.0                               DI524    $ TCPIP SHOW ROUTEB %TCPIP-E-ROUTEERROR, error accessing routes database (TCPIP$ROUTE)  ( $ TCPIP SHOW CONFIGURATION COMMUNICATION   Communication Configuration   C Local host:                             Domain:   erebus.homeip.net    Cluster timer:               0  9 Interfaces:                  0          Type:     Default  Device_sockets:              0 Routes:                      0 Services:                    0 Proxies:                     0  4                           Free     Maximum   Minimum4 Large buffers                0           0         04 Small buffers                0           0         0* IRPs                         0           0 Non TCPIP buffers            0   Remote Terminal    Large buffers:             0   UCBs:                      0   Virtual term:     disabled   $ TCPIP SHOW COMMUNICATION   Communication Parameters  C Local host:                             Domain:   erebus.homeip.net   @                                  Maximum     Current        Peak( Proxies                               20     Remote Terminal    Large buffers:           0   UCBs:                    0   Virtual term:     disabled   $ TCPIP SET NAME/INIT ' $ TCPIP SHOW CONFIGURATION NAME_SERVICE    BIND Resolver Configuration      Transport:  UDP    Domain:     EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET    Retry:         4   Timeout:       4   Servers:    192.168.0.3    Path:       No values defined    $ TCPIP SHOW NAME_SERVICE    BIND Resolver Parameters    Local domain: * Mismatch *     System      State:     Started, Enabled      Transport: UDP   Domain:    erebus.homeip.net   Retry:     4   Timeout:   4   Servers:    DI524    Path:       No values defined     Process     State:     Enabled     Transport:	   Domain:    Retry:
   Timeout:
   Servers:   Path:   8 --------- TCPIP$BIND.CONF ------------------------------> acl bogusnets { 0.0.0.0/8; 1.0.0.0/8; 2.0.0.0/8; 192.0.2.0/24;<   224.0.0.0/3; 10.0.0.0/8; 172.16.0.0/12; 192.168.0.0/16; };! acl our-nets { 192.168.0.0/24; }; 	 options { )    directory "SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$BIND]";     allow-query { our-nets; }; !    allow-recursion { our-nets; };     recursion yes;     blackhole { bogusnets; };    listen-on-v6 { none; }; };   zone "EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET" IN {          type master;$         file "EREBUS_HOMEIP_NET.DB";          allow-transfer { any; }; };  " zone "0.168.192.in-addr.arpa" IN {         type master;)         file "192_168_0_IN-ADDR_ARPA.DB";           allow-transfer { any; }; };   zone "localhost" IN {          type master;         file "LOCALHOST.DB";          allow-transfer { any; }; };    zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" IN {         type master;         file "127_0_0.DB";          allow-transfer { any; }; };  
 zone "." IN {          type hint;         file "root.hint";  };: ----------------------------------------------------------  : --------- EREBUS_HOMEIP_NET.DB ---------------------------
 $TTL 86400 $ORIGIN erebus.homeip.net. @   1D IN SOA @ root (      42  ; serial (alder)       3H  ; refresh      15M  ; retry       1W  ; expiry       1D )  ; minimum         1D IN NS @    1D IN A  127.0.0.1   1 di524                         A       192.168.0.1 1 szeged                        A       192.168.0.3 1 kiraly                        A       192.168.0.4 1 iszkaz                        A       192.168.0.5 : ----------------------------------------------------------  : --------- 192_168_0_IN-ADDR_ARPA.DB ----------------------
 $TTL 86400 $ORIGIN 0.168.192.in-addr.arpa.  @   1D IN SOA @ root (       42  ; serial (alder)       3H  ; refresh       15M  ; retry        1W  ; expiry     1D )  ; minimum        1D IN NS @     1D IN A  127.0.0.1  B     1                             PTR     di524.erebus.homeip.net.C     3                             PTR     szeged.erebus.homeip.net. C     4                             PTR     kiraly.erebus.homeip.net. C     5                             PTR     iszkaz.erebus.homeip.net. : ----------------------------------------------------------  : --------- TCPIP$BIND_RUN.LOG -----------------------------
 $ Set NoOn/ $ VERIFY = F$VERIFY(F$TRNLNM("SYLOGIN_VERIFY")) + Thu 16 20:46:52 NOTICE: starting BIND 9.2.1 * Thu 16 20:46:52 INFORMATIONAL: using 1 CPU9 Thu 16 20:46:52 INFORMATIONAL: loading configuration from * 'SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$BIND]TCPIP$BIND.CONF'7 Thu 16 20:46:52 INFORMATIONAL: no IPv6 interfaces found ? Thu 16 20:46:52 INFORMATIONAL: listening on IPv4 interface   *, 
 0.0.0.0#53? Thu 16 20:46:52 INFORMATIONAL: listening on IPv4 interface LO0,  127.0.0.1#53? Thu 16 20:46:52 INFORMATIONAL: listening on IPv4 interface WE0,  192.168.0.3#53B Thu 16 20:46:52 NOTICE: command channel listening on 127.0.0.1#953C Thu 16 20:46:53 INFORMATIONAL: zone 0.0.127.in-addr.arpa/IN: loaded 	 serial 42 G Thu 16 20:46:53 WARNING: dns_master_load: 192_168_0_IN-ADDR_ARPA.DB:14:  TTL set  to prior TTL (1)G Thu 16 20:46:53 WARNING: dns_master_load: 192_168_0_IN-ADDR_ARPA.DB:15:  TTL set  to prior TTL (1)G Thu 16 20:46:53 WARNING: dns_master_load: 192_168_0_IN-ADDR_ARPA.DB:16:  TTL set  to prior TTL (1)E Thu 16 20:46:53 INFORMATIONAL: zone 0.168.192.in-addr.arpa/IN: loaded 	 serial 42 B Thu 16 20:46:53 INFORMATIONAL: zone localhost/IN: loaded serial 42G Thu 16 20:46:53 INFORMATIONAL: zone EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET/IN: loaded serial  42& Thu 16 20:46:53 INFORMATIONAL: running: ----------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 02:19:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Avoiding domain mismatch (TCPIP Services), Message-ID: <42B26B63.906F9B46@teksavvy.com>   Alder wrote:C > the whole shebang.  I think I have the BIND server configured ok, 8 > judging from the lack of error messages in the run log  / Correct. lack of error messages is a good sign.      > $ TCPIP SHOW HOST/LOCAL     > You should remove local hosts that are in your DNS zone file. F (TCPIP SET NOHOST DI524   I think is the command to remove it from theE local file).  Right now, a request for any of your hosts in the local < database doesn't get to the DNS server so you can't test it.   > $ TCPIP SHOW ROUTE/PERMANENT3 > PN    0.0.0.0                               DI524  >  > $ TCPIP SHOW ROUTED > %TCPIP-E-ROUTEERROR, error accessing routes database (TCPIP$ROUTE)  M This is a serious problem. type TCPIP HELP CREATE ROUTE for more information.   G Also, in your permanent database, you SHOULD have an IP address instead E of a DI524 host name, since this would help isolate problems. If your F host can't resolve DI524 to a real IP address, perhaps this is why the! route system isn't being created.      > $ TCPIP SHOW NAME_SERVICE  >  > BIND Resolver Parameters >  >  Local domain: * Mismatch *     H Here, you have a slight problem.  You don't want a host name, you need aD domain name. the erebus.homeip.net is a host name. hopeip.net is the, domain. But you don't have authority for it.  G What you can do is create your own domain (use the one you would likely Q create on the real internet later on). Lets say "chocolate.com" for the  example.   F Consider that externally, you only have one IP, erebus.hopmeip.net andF you use your router to send packets to one host on your lan (depending on port number).  $ But internally, you have many hosts.  @ So what you do, is base your whole LAN/DNS on its primary domain# "chocolate.com" and then have hosts 1 di524                         A       192.168.0.1 1 szeged                        A       192.168.0.3 1 kiraly                        A       192.168.0.4 1 iszkaz                        A       192.168.0.5     6 Then, to add another zone file in the TCPIP$BIND.conf:   zone "EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET" in {          type master;         file "HOMEIP_NET.DB";  };     and in HOMEIP_NET.DB:   
 ;BIND DUMP V8 6 EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET.  IN      SOA     di524.choclate.com jfmezei.di524.chocolate.com ( 5                 35 18000 300 604800 43200 )     ;Cl=2 =                 IN      NS      di524.chocolate.com     ;Cl=2 >                 IN      MX      10 di524.chocolate.com.  ;Cl=2+                 IN      A       192.168.0.1     F In such a setup, your DNS server thinks it is authoritative for all ofB chocolate.com , and authoritative only for erebus.homeip.net whichB contains just one host (erebus.homeip.net) pointing to your lan IPC address. So if you try to translate www.homeip.com, your DNS server I knows it is not authoritative and goes out to the internet to resolve it.   ' But anything chocolate.com stays local.       : > --------- TCPIP$BIND.CONF ------------------------------@ > acl bogusnets { 0.0.0.0/8; 1.0.0.0/8; 2.0.0.0/8; 192.0.2.0/24;> >   224.0.0.0/3; 10.0.0.0/8; 172.16.0.0/12; 192.168.0.0/16; };# > acl our-nets { 192.168.0.0/24; };   F 192.168.*.* is in both bogus and our-nets. Not sure which has prioroty (I don't use this)   >  > zone "EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET" IN {  >         type master;& >         file "EREBUS_HOMEIP_NET.DB";" >         allow-transfer { any; }; > }; > < > ---------------------------------------------------------- >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2005 10:38:06 -0700* From: "Alder" <TFTAJLLYMXZP@spammotel.com>6 Subject: Re: Avoiding domain mismatch (TCPIP Services)C Message-ID: <1119029886.917036.186450@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    JF,   G THanks again, I think I'm almost there; only some DB syntax issues that E I can't resolve.  The "domain" I chose to use for my LAN is EREBUS.CA C in what follows.  The TCPIP$BIND_RUN.LOG suggests my new DB file is  wonky:  
 $ Set NoOn/ $ VERIFY = F$VERIFY(F$TRNLNM("SYLOGIN_VERIFY")) + Fri 17 10:18:29 NOTICE: starting BIND 9.2.1 * Fri 17 10:18:29 INFORMATIONAL: using 1 CPU9 Fri 17 10:18:29 INFORMATIONAL: loading configuration from * 'SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$BIND]TCPIP$BIND.CONF'7 Fri 17 10:18:29 INFORMATIONAL: no IPv6 interfaces found ? Fri 17 10:18:29 INFORMATIONAL: listening on IPv4 interface   *, 
 0.0.0.0#53? Fri 17 10:18:29 INFORMATIONAL: listening on IPv4 interface LO0,  127.0.0.1#53? Fri 17 10:18:29 INFORMATIONAL: listening on IPv4 interface WE0,  192.168.0.3#53B Fri 17 10:18:29 NOTICE: command channel listening on 127.0.0.1#953C Fri 17 10:18:29 INFORMATIONAL: zone 0.0.127.in-addr.arpa/IN: loaded 	 serial 42 G Fri 17 10:18:29 WARNING: dns_master_load: 192_168_0_IN-ADDR_ARPA.DB:14:  TTL set  to prior TTL (1)G Fri 17 10:18:29 WARNING: dns_master_load: 192_168_0_IN-ADDR_ARPA.DB:15:  TTL set  to prior TTL (1)G Fri 17 10:18:29 WARNING: dns_master_load: 192_168_0_IN-ADDR_ARPA.DB:16:  TTL set  to prior TTL (1)E Fri 17 10:18:29 INFORMATIONAL: zone 0.168.192.in-addr.arpa/IN: loaded 	 serial 42 B Fri 17 10:18:29 INFORMATIONAL: zone localhost/IN: loaded serial 42D Fri 17 10:18:29 ERROR: dns_rdata_fromtext: EREBUS_CA.DB:3: near eol:
 unexpected end of inputE Fri 17 10:18:29 ERROR: zone EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET/IN: loading master file 
 EREBUS_CA. DB: unexpected end of input & Fri 17 10:18:29 INFORMATIONAL: running   $ TYPE EREBUS_CA.DB 0 EREBUS.HOMEIP.NET.    IN   SOA   di524.erebus.ca alder.di524.erebus.ca (         35   ; Serial     18000   ; Refresh        300   ; Retry     604800   ; Expire     43200 ) ; Minimum  ; !     IN   NS      di524.erebus.ca.      IN   A       192.168.0.1 ; 1 di524                         A       192.168.0.1 1 szeged                        A       192.168.0.3 1 kiraly                        A       192.168.0.4 1 iszkaz                        A       192.168.0.5    JF Mezei wrote:  > > $ TCPIP SHOW HOST/LOCAL  > ? > You should remove local hosts that are in your DNS zone file.   3 OK.  It now contains only one record for LOCALHOST.     > > $ TCPIP SHOW ROUTE/PERMANENT5 > > PN    0.0.0.0                               DI524  > >  > > $ TCPIP SHOW ROUTEF > > %TCPIP-E-ROUTEERROR, error accessing routes database (TCPIP$ROUTE) > O > This is a serious problem. type TCPIP HELP CREATE ROUTE for more information.  > I > Also, in your permanent database, you SHOULD have an IP address instead G > of a DI524 host name, since this would help isolate problems. If your H > host can't resolve DI524 to a real IP address, perhaps this is why the# > route system isn't being created.    Done.    Cheers,    Alder    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 11:53:25 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product3 Message-ID: <Ii0RWet0Xc0z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <11as1cah9vk23c8@corp.supernews.com>, "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> writes:N > Does anyone know if OpenVMS Backup Encryption requires a PAK or just a kit?   D I received this response in email today from the VMS Product Manager responsible for Security:   M >  What version of OpenVMS is he talking about?  If it's OpenVMS V8.2 he will > >  not need a license is bundled with the O/S as part of v8.2.( >  Prior to that you need a license/PAK.  A That is what he said in Nashua last week but technically that was @ non-disclosure information (even though V8.2 has been released).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:56:16 -0400 " From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>* Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product0 Message-ID: <11au6i5i0gvo7bc@corp.supernews.com>  I Thanxs Larry, So if one is under s/w maint for 8.2 but running 7.3-2, we  - should be able to get a PAK for zero dollars?     ; "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message  - news:Ii0RWet0Xc0z@eisner.encompasserve.org... > > In article <11as1cah9vk23c8@corp.supernews.com>, "Hal Kuff"  > <kuff@comcast.net> writes:J >> Does anyone know if OpenVMS Backup Encryption requires a PAK or just a  >> kit?  > F > I received this response in email today from the VMS Product Manager > responsible for Security:  > J >>  What version of OpenVMS is he talking about?  If it's OpenVMS V8.2 he  >> will ? >>  not need a license is bundled with the O/S as part of v8.2. ) >>  Prior to that you need a license/PAK.  > C > That is what he said in Nashua last week but technically that was C > non-disclosure information (even though V8.2 has been released).     ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:48:14 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk* Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product) Message-ID: <d8pbit$5c2$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   c In article <WfTrpQzPhzbn@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: V >In article <11au6i5i0gvo7bc@corp.supernews.com>, "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com> writes:L >> Thanxs Larry, So if one is under s/w maint for 8.2 but running 7.3-2, we 0 >> should be able to get a PAK for zero dollars? > C >Not quite.  Look what the product manager says below.  You must be C >on V8.2 to take advantage of the bundling of Encryption licensing.  > C >Do not confuse making the effort to bundle for the future with the E >much larger effort required to issue PAKs for free to people running  >older VMS versions. >  What "much larger effort" ? N All it would require is to put a PAK up on a HP website and post the URL here.  
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University          A >I believe what they are doing here is exactly what they did with C >AMDS, DCPS and X.500 - bundling is only on the newer VMS versions.  >    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 10:44:43 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product3 Message-ID: <ktGnLVEo1EXM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   J In article <d8pbit$5c2$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:e > In article <WfTrpQzPhzbn@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: W >>In article <11au6i5i0gvo7bc@corp.supernews.com>, "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com> writes: M >>> Thanxs Larry, So if one is under s/w maint for 8.2 but running 7.3-2, we  1 >>> should be able to get a PAK for zero dollars?  >>D >>Not quite.  Look what the product manager says below.  You must beD >>on V8.2 to take advantage of the bundling of Encryption licensing. >>D >>Do not confuse making the effort to bundle for the future with theF >>much larger effort required to issue PAKs for free to people running >>older VMS versions.  >> > What "much larger effort" ? P > All it would require is to put a PAK up on a HP website and post the URL here.  E Obviously you live in an environment where it is not necessary to get 
 approvals.  E In particular, approvals of giving away something to people who would B otherwise have to have Right To New Versions and thus be providing current income to the company.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:44:06 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product, Message-ID: <42B068DE.4B16C2BA@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:I > argument.  Not quite so valid after David's suggestion.  They could say E > "We are making these products part of the base VMS product, and for > > those on older versions here are PAKs that will make it so."  F Or better yet, provide a patch for older versions which checks for the( VMS version and not the old PAK version.  B This would be far simpler to administer, and cost next to nothing.  & Where there is a will, there is a way.  G As you said, HP is out to make onwership of Alpha and VAX expensive and H out to subsidize IA64 to a point where it costs so much less to own that you are forced to buy it.   F Considering that 8.2 on Alpha and IA64 are common code bases, there isB really no reason why the licensing should have been any different.    C HP has to acknowledge that the future of IA64 is cloudy at best, at F least from the customers' points of view. And as such, it must work toH retain PaRisc, Alpha, Vax and MIPS customers who want to stay or uinvestH in a known entity with available software today, instead of investing in0 a cloudy platform with limited software support.  G HP must not shove IA64 down out throwth to save some VP's image/job. HP G must provide products and services that customers want. Customers don't H want to be pushe to IA64 until they are confident IA64 is the right move< (or until, of course, HP announces the ports to the 8086 :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 15:04:34 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product3 Message-ID: <VdxdP5XuXnDI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <11b0nr66s6k0id8@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  G > In this case, it seems that for 8.2 on Alpha the product is bundled.  F > therefore the customer is entitled to the product if they have 8.2. G > Cohering customers to upgrade what they're running, not what they've  H > paid for, isn't real helpful.  In this case HP has already gotten the & > 'current income'.  Why ask for more?   Because of the effort required. E I saw several things at the Bootcamp Symposium on which time would be 0 better spent.  And I am a big fan of encryption.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:19:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product, Message-ID: <42B08D58.7483D1A4@teksavvy.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:! > Because of the effort required. G > I saw several things at the Bootcamp Symposium on which time would be 2 > better spent.  And I am a big fan of encryption.    H Consider that in a supposedly common code base, it takes extra effort toF differentiate Alpha and IA64 versions. So adding a feature specific to. IA64 is what costs resources/time/money to HP.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:02:04 -0400 # From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product0 Message-ID: <11b1jsfnsma89c2@corp.supernews.com>  M     All in all a good discussion... now after two weeks of trying if i could  J only find someone at hp to sell me a PAK...!  Our slaes rep (unnaamed for & his / her protection) hit a stone wall    ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:42B08D58.7483D1A4@teksavvy.com... > Larry Kilgallen wrote:" >> Because of the effort required.H >> I saw several things at the Bootcamp Symposium on which time would be3 >> better spent.  And I am a big fan of encryption.  >  > J > Consider that in a supposedly common code base, it takes extra effort toH > differentiate Alpha and IA64 versions. So adding a feature specific to1 > IA64 is what costs resources/time/money to HP.     ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 21:32:49 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product3 Message-ID: <1VRgXD96lyhs@eisner.encompasserve.org>    > <  "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message '  news:42B08D58.7483D1A4@teksavvy.com...  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:" >> Because of the effort required.H >> I saw several things at the Bootcamp Symposium on which time would be3 >> better spent.  And I am a big fan of encryption.  >  > J > Consider that in a supposedly common code base, it takes extra effort toH > differentiate Alpha and IA64 versions. So adding a feature specific to1 > IA64 is what costs resources/time/money to HP.     8 Nobody has differentiated Alpha from I64 in this regard." The inclusion on V8.2 is for both.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:35:56 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product/ Message-ID: <BED641AC.FA82%roktsci@comcast.net>   G On 6/15/05 6:02 PM, in article 11b1jsfnsma89c2@corp.supernews.com, "Hal  Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote:   N >     All in all a good discussion... now after two weeks of trying if i couldK > only find someone at hp to sell me a PAK...!  Our slaes rep (unnaamed for ( > his / her protection) hit a stone wall >   A I got mine from my Software Support Sales Rep. Susan McGinnis, HP E Ridgecrest, CA office. I asked for a 90 evaluation license so I could 3 perform testing of our Backup Software, and got it.    > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( > news:42B08D58.7483D1A4@teksavvy.com... >> Larry Kilgallen wrote: # >>> Because of the effort required. I >>> I saw several things at the Bootcamp Symposium on which time would be 4 >>> better spent.  And I am a big fan of encryption. >>   >>  K >> Consider that in a supposedly common code base, it takes extra effort to I >> differentiate Alpha and IA64 versions. So adding a feature specific to 1 >> IA64 is what costs resources/time/money to HP.  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 02:57:35 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product0 Message-ID: <11b28k6bbqc6pc7@corp.supernews.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:\ > In article <11b0nr66s6k0id8@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  > G >>In this case, it seems that for 8.2 on Alpha the product is bundled.  F >>therefore the customer is entitled to the product if they have 8.2. G >>Cohering customers to upgrade what they're running, not what they've  H >>paid for, isn't real helpful.  In this case HP has already gotten the & >>'current income'.  Why ask for more? >  > ! > Because of the effort required.   E A totally meaningless statement until you can put a cost in time and   dollars on the effort.  A How long does it take to produce a PAK?  Minutes?  Hours?  Years?   F If HP is going to sell the customer a PAK for a version prior to 8.2, E how much less time/effort will it take?  They'll have to expend that  G much effort.  Now, when it comes time to pay for the PAK, they can see  J that the customer has already paid for V8.2.  How much should they charge?  D There was a time at DEC when customers were 'taken care of'.  Now a L ccustomer has to grovel.  And we wonder why the number of customers is less?  G > I saw several things at the Bootcamp Symposium on which time would be 2 > better spent.  And I am a big fan of encryption.     --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:25:21 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product3 Message-ID: <7VIOUUWRji80@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <11b28k6bbqc6pc7@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  C > How long does it take to produce a PAK?  Minutes?  Hours?  Years?   ' How long does it take to get approval ?    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:45:25 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk* Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product) Message-ID: <d8rvpl$2fd$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   \ In article <42B068DE.4B16C2BA@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >Dave Froble wrote: J >> argument.  Not quite so valid after David's suggestion.  They could sayF >> "We are making these products part of the base VMS product, and for? >> those on older versions here are PAKs that will make it so."  > G >Or better yet, provide a patch for older versions which checks for the ) >VMS version and not the old PAK version.  > J A patch involves someone making code changes which then have to be tested.2 It would be much less work to just generate a PAK.G I haven't checked but there is probably a suitable PAK in the DecCampus ; distribution ie a totally unlimited PAK which won't expire.      
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University    C >This would be far simpler to administer, and cost next to nothing.  > ' >Where there is a will, there is a way.  > H >As you said, HP is out to make onwership of Alpha and VAX expensive andI >out to subsidize IA64 to a point where it costs so much less to own that  >you are forced to buy it. > G >Considering that 8.2 on Alpha and IA64 are common code bases, there is C >really no reason why the licensing should have been any different.  >  > D >HP has to acknowledge that the future of IA64 is cloudy at best, atG >least from the customers' points of view. And as such, it must work to I >retain PaRisc, Alpha, Vax and MIPS customers who want to stay or uinvest I >in a known entity with available software today, instead of investing in 1 >a cloudy platform with limited software support.  > H >HP must not shove IA64 down out throwth to save some VP's image/job. HPH >must provide products and services that customers want. Customers don'tI >want to be pushe to IA64 until they are confident IA64 is the right move = >(or until, of course, HP announces the ports to the 8086 :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:26:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product, Message-ID: <42B19A3E.5A92DFD9@teksavvy.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > \ > In article <11b28k6bbqc6pc7@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > E > > How long does it take to produce a PAK?  Minutes?  Hours?  Years?  > ) > How long does it take to get approval ?   % Where there is a will there is a way.   C Provide a command procedure in the itrc patch area which contains a ? licence register command of a generic PAK anyone could install.   H ALL-IN-1 used this to license the various software pieces that came withO ALL-IN-1 (message router, notes, cda converter library). So there is precedent.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:08:41 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product0 Message-ID: <11b3cdurn1p9g63@corp.supernews.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:\ > In article <11b28k6bbqc6pc7@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  > C >>How long does it take to produce a PAK?  Minutes?  Hours?  Years?  >  > ) > How long does it take to get approval ?   I If it takes a special approval to allow a customer to run a product that  H he has effectivly already paid for on an older version of VMS, then I'm @ thinking that the entire organization is hopelessly broken.  If F employees of HP are working in an environment where they fear to show > any initiative then things are rather bad, and will get worse.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:59:10 GMT ) From: jlsue <jeffls-delete@sbcglobal.net> * Subject: Re: backup Encryption PAK/Product8 Message-ID: <l6i5b19ftovqbs3sesdam72him4jm8j6g7@4ax.com>  4 On 15 Jun 2005 23:20:13 -0700, "Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl" <Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl> wrote:   > ) >Btw, AMDS was never separately licensed!  >   A Are you sure?  I recall AMDS being really expensive back in early C 1990s.  I remember this because I was a customer, and our complaint E used to be "Why do we have to spend so much money to fix stuff in VMS  that shouldn't be broken?"     --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.5 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:50:58 -0400 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> 1 Subject: Re: backup Hardware Encryption SCSI TAPE , Message-ID: <Z9Wdnekob-rmwjLfRVn-tQ@rcn.net>   Jeff Cameron wrote: K > I'm also finding SCSI Tape Hardware encryption, that encrypts every block M > written to tape. This is not as flexible as the VMS software where keys can  > be changed easily. > E > One other thing we are finding out, it that encryption (Hardware or L > Software) most often causes tape compaction to be much less efficient. ButM > in most cases this is not important because security is much more important  > than capacity. >  > Jeff >  > I > On 6/13/05 5:27 PM, in article 11as93ud55f7ud3@corp.supernews.com, "Hal ! > Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote:  >  > I >>Thanxs, I'll keep a lookout for that one... you know with all the tapes K >>getting lost in transit to Iron Mountain and so forth, and with having to M >>report lost tapes to the SEC and state authorities, encryption is mandatory  >>going forward....  >> >>7 >>"Jeff Cameron" <roktsci@comcast.net> wrote in message + >>news:BED36B49.F8DD%roktsci@comcast.net...  >>J >>>On 6/13/05 3:15 PM, in article 11as1cah9vk23c8@corp.supernews.com, "Hal" >>>Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote: >>>  >>> J >>>>Does anyone know if OpenVMS Backup Encryption requires a PAK or just a >>>>kit?I >>>>I'm trying to contact the HP license loan program and can not seem to  >>>>findK >>>>those folks other than a confusing series of circular references on the  >>>>HP >>>>web site.... >>>>2 >>>>the master product code seems to be QL-081A-?? >>>> >>>> >>> K >>>Yes, it does require a PAK. I just got mine, and we found a bug with the K >>>/ENCRYPT/SAVE_SET in Backup. Backup aborts with an access violation when 1 >>>/ENCRYPT is used in conjunction with /JOURNAL.  >>>  >>>HP is looking into it.  >>>  >>>Jeff Cameron  >>>  >> >> >  > . Yep, you want to compress first, THEN encrypt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:25:04 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet> Subject: Re: Backup Procedure 0 Message-ID: <ivGdnVo4q8sciC7fRVn-rA@comcast.com>   WeLikeNuts@gmail.com wrote: H > I believe only one saveset gets created because attempting to list the2 > second saveset with the following command fails: > ( > BACKUP/LIST MKA100:SYS_DKA0.BCK/REWIND > G > %BACKUP-F-OPENIN, error opening MKA100:[000000]SYS_DKA0.BCK; as input $ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file >   : I have no access to a tape drive, so I can't confirm this:  H Try adding the /SAVE_SET qualifier (MKA100:SYS_DKA0.BCK/REWIND/SAVE_SET)  G When I did a test on my home system, I created a save set on disk, and  D attempted to list it without /SAVE_SET.  The error message that was 
 returned was:   2 RABBIT::BRAD$ backup/list mindisk:[backup]brad.bck5 %BACKUP-F-LISINPSAV, /LIST requires save set as input   C but adding the /SAVE_SET qualifier allowed me to read the save set.   G > And of course, any attempts to restore files from the saveset fail as  > well.  > D > I can't recall seeing any error messages, but I will look and post. > anything that looks relevant to this thread. >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2005 09:24:14 -0700 From: WeLikeNuts@gmail.com Subject: Backup Procedure C Message-ID: <1119025454.233225.119170@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F Let me preface this inquiry by saying that I am new to VMS.  So please don't tear me a new one.  F We use the backup procedure  below to backup our system and data disksC to tape.  However, only the first saveset in the procedure actually E gets created.  As far as I can tell from the documentation I've read, ? my commands seem correct. The tape should have more than enough B capacity.  Any insight is greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.   $ WAIT 00:00:00   $ INIT/OVER=EXPIR MKA100: MTH_BA9 $ BACKUP/REWIND/LOG/LIST=BACK.LOG/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/RECORD  DKC0:[*...]*.* -6   MKA100:SYS_DKC0.BCK/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/NOASSISTA $ BACKUP/NOREWIND/LOG/LIST=BACK.LOG/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/RECORD  DKA0:[*...]*.* -6   MKA100:SYS_DKA0.BCK/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/NOASSIST $ LOGOUT $    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:49:10 -0400 4 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca> Subject: Re: Backup Procedure + Message-ID: <3hgd87Fgu8pdU1@individual.net>    WeLikeNuts@gmail.com wrote:  >...H > We use the backup procedure  below to backup our system and data disksE > to tape.  However, only the first saveset in the procedure actually G > gets created.  As far as I can tell from the documentation I've read,  >...  H If you look at the .LOG file from the job you will probably see some -E-H or even some -F- errors from the first backup command. At the end of theF first BACKUP DCL is checking the error code and exiting the procedure.G Try putting $ SET NOON at the start of the procedure and check the .LOG F to see if any of the -E- or -F- errors should concern you. If you want= to see what $ SET NOON is doing for you then try HELP SET ON.    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:39:52 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet> Subject: Re: Backup Procedure 0 Message-ID: <YZednZUiZbBFYS_fRVn-uw@comcast.com>   WeLikeNuts@gmail.com wrote: H > Let me preface this inquiry by saying that I am new to VMS.  So please > don't tear me a new one. > H > We use the backup procedure  below to backup our system and data disksE > to tape.  However, only the first saveset in the procedure actually G > gets created.  As far as I can tell from the documentation I've read, A > my commands seem correct. The tape should have more than enough D > capacity.  Any insight is greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance. >  > $ WAIT 00:00:00 " > $ INIT/OVER=EXPIR MKA100: MTH_BA; > $ BACKUP/REWIND/LOG/LIST=BACK.LOG/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/RECORD  > DKC0:[*...]*.* -8 >   MKA100:SYS_DKC0.BCK/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/NOASSISTC > $ BACKUP/NOREWIND/LOG/LIST=BACK.LOG/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/RECORD  > DKA0:[*...]*.* -8 >   MKA100:SYS_DKA0.BCK/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/NOASSIST
 > $ LOGOUT > $  >   / Why do you think only one saveset gets created?   D Are there any error messages generated by the second BACKUP command?  E You might want to make the LISTing files have an extension of .LIS -  ) (e.g., BACK.LIS) might be less confusing.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:29:07 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Backup Procedure 3 Message-ID: <fMDse.2440$g4.32835@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   1 <WeLikeNuts@gmail.com> a crit dans le message de = news:1119025454.233225.119170@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... H > Let me preface this inquiry by saying that I am new to VMS.  So please > don't tear me a new one. > H > We use the backup procedure  below to backup our system and data disksE > to tape.  However, only the first saveset in the procedure actually G > gets created.  As far as I can tell from the documentation I've read, A > my commands seem correct. The tape should have more than enough D > capacity.  Any insight is greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance. >  > $ WAIT 00:00:00 " > $ INIT/OVER=EXPIR MKA100: MTH_BA; > $ BACKUP/REWIND/LOG/LIST=BACK.LOG/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/RECORD  > DKC0:[*...]*.* -8 >   MKA100:SYS_DKC0.BCK/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/NOASSISTC > $ BACKUP/NOREWIND/LOG/LIST=BACK.LOG/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/RECORD  > DKA0:[*...]*.* -8 >   MKA100:SYS_DKA0.BCK/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/NOASSIST
 > $ LOGOUT > $     WAIT and LOGOUT are superfluous. Other than that looks ok. K When you say only the 1st saveset gets created, possibly you don`t look the  right way :    $ BACKUP/LIST MKA100:*.*/SAV" will list all the saveset, whereas $ BACKUP/LIST MKA100:  will only list the 1st one.    Is that the problem ?    --   Syltrem    OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---  >    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2005 10:47:12 -0700 From: WeLikeNuts@gmail.com Subject: Re: Backup Procedure C Message-ID: <1119030432.248795.115220@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F I believe only one saveset gets created because attempting to list the0 second saveset with the following command fails:  & BACKUP/LIST MKA100:SYS_DKA0.BCK/REWIND  E %BACKUP-F-OPENIN, error opening MKA100:[000000]SYS_DKA0.BCK; as input " -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file  E And of course, any attempts to restore files from the saveset fail as  well.   B I can't recall seeing any error messages, but I will look and post, anything that looks relevant to this thread.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:16:08 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Backup Procedure , Message-ID: <42B31364.2DDA1F6E@teksavvy.com>   WeLikeNuts@gmail.com wrote:  > $ WAIT 00:00:00 " > $ INIT/OVER=EXPIR MKA100: MTH_BA; > $ BACKUP/REWIND/LOG/LIST=BACK.LOG/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/RECORD  > DKC0:[*...]*.* -8 >   MKA100:SYS_DKC0.BCK/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/NOASSISTC > $ BACKUP/NOREWIND/LOG/LIST=BACK.LOG/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/RECORD  > DKA0:[*...]*.* -8 >   MKA100:SYS_DKA0.BCK/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/NOASSIST
 > $ LOGOUT > $   2 you may wish to add the following after the wait :  
 ALLOC MKA100:    and then before the logout:    DEALLOC MKA100:   B When the first backup ends, it helps ensure that the tape stays onC without rewinding. That seemed to make a difference with TK50s back : then. It may no longer be of use with current VMS version.  F also, in your backup commands, you should add /LABEL=MTH_BA as part of7 the qualifiers attached to the target saveset on tape.    I The second command has a conflict, which I am not sure how backup reacts:   @ When you BACKUP/IMAGE,  backups wants just the device name sinceE implicitely , it backsup everything on that device, yet, you supply a 2 file specification DKA0:[*...]*.* instead of DKA0:  F With /IMAGE, you also want /NOALIAS which will save much space on yourA tape and time, preventing files from being copied more than once.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:16:24 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Backup Procedure 3 Message-ID: <xsEse.2441$g4.32844@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   ( I noted the following in your procedure:E You initialize the tape with label MTH_BA but the 1st saveset name is  SYS_DKC0.BCK8 So BACKUP should complain that the label does not match. And testing it does this:     $ INIT/OVER=EXPIR MKA400: MTH_BAB $ BACKUP/REWIND/LOG/LIST=BACK.LOG/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/RECORD st:f.lis
 mka400:SYS_DK ' C0.BCK/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/NOASSIST 3 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, MTH_BA mounted on _HELIOS$MKA400: F %BACKUP-W-MOUNTERR, volume 1 on _HELIOS$MKA400 was not mounted because+  its label does not match the one requested 2  specify option (QUIT, NEW tape or OVERWRITE tape) BACKUP>   > So in fact, I don`t think even the 1st saveset gets written...  ; If you answer OVERWRITE to the above request, you get this: J %BACKUP-I-LBLOVRWRITE, volume label MTH_BA       overwritten, new label is SYS_DK   Use /IGNORE=(INTERLOCK,LABEL)    --   Syltrem    OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address--- 1 <WeLikeNuts@gmail.com> a crit dans le message de = news:1119030432.248795.115220@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... H > I believe only one saveset gets created because attempting to list the2 > second saveset with the following command fails: > ( > BACKUP/LIST MKA100:SYS_DKA0.BCK/REWIND > G > %BACKUP-F-OPENIN, error opening MKA100:[000000]SYS_DKA0.BCK; as input $ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file > G > And of course, any attempts to restore files from the saveset fail as  > well.  > D > I can't recall seeing any error messages, but I will look and post. > anything that looks relevant to this thread. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:20:33 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Backup Procedure 3 Message-ID: <rwEse.2442$g4.32811@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   D "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> a crit dans le message de& news:42B31364.2DDA1F6E@teksavvy.com... > WeLikeNuts@gmail.com wrote:  > > $ WAIT 00:00:00 $ > > $ INIT/OVER=EXPIR MKA100: MTH_BA= > > $ BACKUP/REWIND/LOG/LIST=BACK.LOG/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/RECORD  > > DKC0:[*...]*.* -: > >   MKA100:SYS_DKC0.BCK/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/NOASSISTE > > $ BACKUP/NOREWIND/LOG/LIST=BACK.LOG/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/RECORD  > > DKA0:[*...]*.* -: > >   MKA100:SYS_DKA0.BCK/MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION/NOASSIST > > $ LOGOUT > > $  > 4 > you may wish to add the following after the wait : >  > ALLOC MKA100:  >  > and then before the logout:  >  > DEALLOC MKA100:  > D > When the first backup ends, it helps ensure that the tape stays onE > without rewinding. That seemed to make a difference with TK50s back < > then. It may no longer be of use with current VMS version. > H > also, in your backup commands, you should add /LABEL=MTH_BA as part of8 > the qualifiers attached to the target saveset on tape. >     I This is another solution which has the same effect as the one I suggested 
 /IGNORE=LABEL J You can use either one as in your procedure it really makes no difference.I The ALLOCATE is not required. BACKUP has been ALLOCATing and MOUNTing the  tapes for quite a long time.   --   Syltrem    OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address--- K > The second command has a conflict, which I am not sure how backup reacts:  > B > When you BACKUP/IMAGE,  backups wants just the device name sinceG > implicitely , it backsup everything on that device, yet, you supply a 4 > file specification DKA0:[*...]*.* instead of DKA0: > H > With /IMAGE, you also want /NOALIAS which will save much space on yourC > tape and time, preventing files from being copied more than once.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:39:03 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Backup Procedure 2 Message-ID: <05061713390368_20202658@antinode.org>  6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet>  * > > BACKUP/LIST MKA100:SYS_DKA0.BCK/REWIND  < > I have no access to a tape drive, so I can't confirm this: > J > Try adding the /SAVE_SET qualifier (MKA100:SYS_DKA0.BCK/REWIND/SAVE_SET)  5    /SAVE_SET should be the default for a tape device.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:56:07 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Backup question9 Message-ID: <d8Dre.90310$1V1.1029152@weber.videotron.net>    Hi  G I have a requirement to take backups and save to 2 different locations. K To keep everything simple, let`s say I want to perform the same backup on 2  tape drives.  + How can I perform the same backup on the 2? I If I do a BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD to the 1st tape, and then a new file J gets created, and then I do that same command again for the 2nd tape, only$ the 2nd tape will have the new file.  C If ever I restore from the 1st tape, my "new" file will be missing.   H Also on the next day if I do the same thing, and that "new" file has not beenK modified after the 2nd backup started the day before, it will not be backed H up again. So my 1st set of tapes is really good for nothing for recovery with /INCREMENTAL  (as it will be missing files).  J Is the only solution to perform just one backup and then copy from tape toF tape? That takes a lot more time to do. And I would prefer not to have backups & running during the day (nightly only).  % Thanks for any input on this subject.    Regards,   Syltrem  OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:05:17 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Backup question9 Message-ID: <OgDre.90311$1V1.1031817@weber.videotron.net>   : Maybe the solution is to use /RECORD only on the 2nd tape.  - Still unsure if that takes care of everything    What do u think?   Syltrem   ? "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> a crit dans le message de 3 news:d8Dre.90310$1V1.1029152@weber.videotron.net...  > Hi > I > I have a requirement to take backups and save to 2 different locations. K > To keep everything simple, let`s say I want to perform the same backup on  2  > tape drives. > - > How can I perform the same backup on the 2? K > If I do a BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD to the 1st tape, and then a new file L > gets created, and then I do that same command again for the 2nd tape, only& > the 2nd tape will have the new file. > E > If ever I restore from the 1st tape, my "new" file will be missing.  > J > Also on the next day if I do the same thing, and that "new" file has not > beenF > modified after the 2nd backup started the day before, it will not be backedJ > up again. So my 1st set of tapes is really good for nothing for recovery > with /INCREMENTAL   > (as it will be missing files). > L > Is the only solution to perform just one backup and then copy from tape toH > tape? That takes a lot more time to do. And I would prefer not to have	 > backups ( > running during the day (nightly only). > ' > Thanks for any input on this subject.  > 
 > Regards, > 	 > Syltrem  > OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:21:30 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>  Subject: Re: Backup questionE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506141013510.10955@localhost.localdomain>   # On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Syltrem wrote:   ? > I have a requirement to take backups and save to 2 different  D > locations. To keep everything simple, let`s say I want to perform # > the same backup on 2 tape drives.  > - > How can I perform the same backup on the 2?   G > If I do a BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD to the 1st tape, and then a new  G > file gets created, and then I do that same command again for the 2nd  1 > tape, only the 2nd tape will have the new file.   G Not only that, but I think that the second tape will only have the new  - file and none of the files on the first tape.    ...   E > Is the only solution to perform just one backup and then copy from   > tape to tape?   C With bare VMS, maybe the only way to have two identical backups is  D to do it once and then copy it.  Could you back up to disk and then  copy to two tapes?  F I think I heard of a backup product that used VMS backup and would do G what you want.  Maybe it writes to two tape drives simultaneously.  Or  G maybe it just copies the saveset.  I don't know, but I'm sure somebody   does.      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:37:57 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <cKDre.2329$g4.32751@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   2 "Rob Brown" <mylastname@gmcl.com> wrote in message? news:Pine.LNX.4.61.0506141013510.10955@localhost.localdomain... % > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Syltrem wrote:  > @ > > I have a requirement to take backups and save to 2 differentE > > locations. To keep everything simple, let`s say I want to perform % > > the same backup on 2 tape drives.  > > / > > How can I perform the same backup on the 2?  > H > > If I do a BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD to the 1st tape, and then a newH > > file gets created, and then I do that same command again for the 2nd3 > > tape, only the 2nd tape will have the new file.  > H > Not only that, but I think that the second tape will only have the new/ > file and none of the files on the first tape.  >     
 You're right. G And not using /RECORD for the 1st tape is not the answer as I tought it 	 could be.  Definitely not.    Syltrem      > ...  > F > > Is the only solution to perform just one backup and then copy from > > tape to tape?  > D > With bare VMS, maybe the only way to have two identical backups isE > to do it once and then copy it.  Could you back up to disk and then  > copy to two tapes? > G > I think I heard of a backup product that used VMS backup and would do H > what you want.  Maybe it writes to two tape drives simultaneously.  OrH > maybe it just copies the saveset.  I don't know, but I'm sure somebody > does.  >  >  > -- > D > Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mC > G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 8 > Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)7 >                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 4 >                                   http://gmcl.com/ >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 11:52:57 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <U2xAq4kKlvcF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <d8Dre.90310$1V1.1029152@weber.videotron.net>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes: > Hi > I > I have a requirement to take backups and save to 2 different locations. M > To keep everything simple, let`s say I want to perform the same backup on 2  > tape drives. > - > How can I perform the same backup on the 2? K > If I do a BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD to the 1st tape, and then a new file L > gets created, and then I do that same command again for the 2nd tape, only& > the 2nd tape will have the new file. > E > If ever I restore from the 1st tape, my "new" file will be missing.  > J > Also on the next day if I do the same thing, and that "new" file has not > beenM > modified after the 2nd backup started the day before, it will not be backed J > up again. So my 1st set of tapes is really good for nothing for recovery > with /INCREMENTAL   > (as it will be missing files). > L > Is the only solution to perform just one backup and then copy from tape toH > tape? That takes a lot more time to do. And I would prefer not to have	 > backups ( > running during the day (nightly only).  H    That's one solution.  Backup Saveset Manager will do that for you, if@    you want to spend some money.  Another solution is to not do H    /since=backup/record on the first backup.  Instead keep track of the H    START time of the 1st backup command and do /since=that-time the nextE    time you do the first backup.  If you are doing the backups via a  B    command file, that command file could automatically maintain a @    backup-time file, something like what's built into UNIX dump.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:53:04 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam>  Subject: Re: Backup question* Message-ID: <YREre.6990$Ub4.4139@fe06.lga>   Syltrem wrote: > Hi > I > I have a requirement to take backups and save to 2 different locations. M > To keep everything simple, let`s say I want to perform the same backup on 2  > tape drives.   Is it possible to:    Backup disk(s) -> Tape device 1.& Backup tape device 1 -> Tape device 2.  ) (I've never tried a tape -> tape backup).    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:24:31 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Backup question, Message-ID: <42AF20DD.C4D07585@teksavvy.com>   Syltrem wrote:I > I have a requirement to take backups and save to 2 different locations. M > To keep everything simple, let`s say I want to perform the same backup on 2  > tape drives.  C Backup the disk to another disk, and then use 2 simultaneous backup K commands to backup from that temporary drive to the 2 separate tape drives.   A This way, you are sure that both tapes are identical in contents.   # Big question is whether you should:    BACKUP/IMAGE $DISK1: $DISK2: followed by - 	BACKUP/IMAGE $DISK2: $TAPE1:SAVESET.BCK/SAVE - 	BACKUP/IMAGE $DISK2: $TAPE2:SAVESET.BCK/SAVE    or  , BACKUP/IMAGE $DISK1: $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK/SAVE followed by - 	BACKUP $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1:SAVESET.BCK - 	BACKUP $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE2:SAVESET.BCK     G If you have shadowed drives, you can just remove one member and then do / your 2 separate backups simultaneously from it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:32:49 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>  Subject: Re: Backup questionE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506141231180.12644@localhost.localdomain>   $ On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, JF Mezei wrote:   ... . > BACKUP/IMAGE $DISK1: $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK/SAVE
 > followed by / > 	BACKUP $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1:SAVESET.BCK / > 	BACKUP $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE2:SAVESET.BCK    What about:  ... (          COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1:(          COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE2: ?      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:37:09 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <XtFre.2333$g4.32600@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in messageK > > Is the only solution to perform just one backup and then copy from tape  toJ > > tape? That takes a lot more time to do. And I would prefer not to have > > backups * > > running during the day (nightly only). > J >    That's one solution.  Backup Saveset Manager will do that for you, ifA >    you want to spend some money.  Another solution is to not do I >    /since=backup/record on the first backup.  Instead keep track of the J >    START time of the 1st backup command and do /since=that-time the nextF >    time you do the first backup.  If you are doing the backups via aC >    command file, that command file could automatically maintain a B >    backup-time file, something like what's built into UNIX dump. >   J It crossed my mind to record the backup date somewhere, but I dismissed itE at some point. But now after reading what you say I thought it over : J BACKUP /SINCE=&Last_Backup_Time/BACKUP would backup exactly the same filesJ as the preceeding /SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD and would include none of the files* created in between (as per documentation)., So the 2 would contain the exact same files.   So the trick is to:  $ DATE = F$CVT(,"ABSOLUTE") , $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD to the 1st tape+ $ BACKUP/SINCE=&date/BACKUP to the 2nd tape   	 Will test    Thanks,    Syltrem    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 13:45:06 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <uyyEDPIMz501@eisner.encompasserve.org>   @ In article <YREre.6990$Ub4.4139@fe06.lga>, Z <Z@no.spam> writes: > Syltrem wrote: >> Hi  >>  J >> I have a requirement to take backups and save to 2 different locations.N >> To keep everything simple, let`s say I want to perform the same backup on 2 >> tape drives.  >  > Is it possible to: > " > Backup disk(s) -> Tape device 1.( > Backup tape device 1 -> Tape device 2. > + > (I've never tried a tape -> tape backup).   % Tape to tape backup is not supported.   G The Save Set Manager product will allow you to copy save sets from tape $ to tape.  Plain old BACKUP will not.  F TAPESYS will allow you to do VMS backup from disk to multiple tapes in7 parallel.  I suspect that SLS has that ability as well.   , Wayne Sewell is the resident TAPESYS expert.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:01:16 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Backup question, Message-ID: <42AF2975.94EC04E9@teksavvy.com>   Rob Brown wrote:
 > What about:  > ... * >          COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1:* >          COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE2:  E It is my understanding (can someone confirm ?) that BACKUP has better 0 handling of tape errors/problems than COPY does.  H Also, would BACKUP use large buffers to write to tape, allowowing faster@ and more efficent tape operation compared to COPY ? Or does thatG disapear when you use backup to copy files instead of create savesets ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:11:24 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam>  Subject: Re: Backup question( Message-ID: <o%Fre.565$mD6.380@fe07.lga>   Syltrem wrote:A >>   you want to spend some money.  Another solution is to not do I >>   /since=backup/record on the first backup.  Instead keep track of the J >>   START time of the 1st backup command and do /since=that-time the nextF >>   time you do the first backup.  If you are doing the backups via aC >>   command file, that command file could automatically maintain a B >>   backup-time file, something like what's built into UNIX dump.  L > It crossed my mind to record the backup date somewhere, but I dismissed itG > at some point. But now after reading what you say I thought it over : L > BACKUP /SINCE=&Last_Backup_Time/BACKUP would backup exactly the same filesL > as the preceeding /SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD and would include none of the files, > created in between (as per documentation).. > So the 2 would contain the exact same files. >  > So the trick is to:  > $ DATE = F$CVT(,"ABSOLUTE") . > $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD to the 1st tape- > $ BACKUP/SINCE=&date/BACKUP to the 2nd tape  >  > Will test   E While the file lists should be the same, you can still get different  H data in each backup since the contents of the files may change from one  backup to the next.   > Judging from your base post, I think you want identical tapes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:27:24 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <2dGre.2339$g4.32711@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   C "Z" <Z@no.spam> wrote in message news:o%Fre.565$mD6.380@fe07.lga...  > Syltrem wrote:C > >>   you want to spend some money.  Another solution is to not do K > >>   /since=backup/record on the first backup.  Instead keep track of the L > >>   START time of the 1st backup command and do /since=that-time the nextH > >>   time you do the first backup.  If you are doing the backups via aE > >>   command file, that command file could automatically maintain a D > >>   backup-time file, something like what's built into UNIX dump. > K > > It crossed my mind to record the backup date somewhere, but I dismissed  itI > > at some point. But now after reading what you say I thought it over : H > > BACKUP /SINCE=&Last_Backup_Time/BACKUP would backup exactly the same files H > > as the preceeding /SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD and would include none of the files . > > created in between (as per documentation).0 > > So the 2 would contain the exact same files. > >  > > So the trick is to:  > > $ DATE = F$CVT(,"ABSOLUTE") 0 > > $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD to the 1st tape/ > > $ BACKUP/SINCE=&date/BACKUP to the 2nd tape  > > 
 > > Will test  > F > While the file lists should be the same, you can still get differentI > data in each backup since the contents of the files may change from one  > backup to the next.  > @ > Judging from your base post, I think you want identical tapes.     I understand that.L Having the same files, and not missing any file on the next backup,  is what I need.    Thanks Syltrem    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:31:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Backup question, Message-ID: <42AF3EAA.6B633708@teksavvy.com>   Rob Brown wrote:' >     $ BACKUP/IMAGE... $DISK1: $DISK2: 2 >     $ BACKUP/IMAGE... $DISK2: $TAPE1:SAVESET.BCK2 >     $ BACKUP/IMAGE... $DISK2: $TAPE2:SAVESET.BCK > H > I prefer this because then files can be directly restored from tape ifG > necessary.  If the tape contains a saveset containing a saveset, then D > the saveset must be restored to disk before files can be recovered
 > from it.  A Nop. In the second suggestion, BACKUP was used to copy an already E existing saveset FILE to tape.  No double enclosure into a save set.      C The advantage of creating one saveset to disk and then copying that F saveset twice is that you are really assured that the savesets on tapeF are truly identical since it is the same saveset you are copying twice. to tape.  (backup headers would be identical).  H In the other suggestions (doing disk/disk backup/image and then creatingG 2 savesets to tape), you have identical file sources from the temporary A disk, but each saveset in the two different tapes will in fact be G different savesets. But in the end, when you need to restore files, the  files would be identical.   F One aspect to consider though: if you make a backup/image from disk toA disk, if the target disk does not have the same cluster size, the G resulting disk backup won't be totally identical since file allocations  will be slightly different.   G If you backup/image the source disk to a saveset on the temporary disk, E then the saveset will truly represent all aspects of the files on the  source disk.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:23:22 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>  Subject: Re: Backup questionE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506141506370.14189@localhost.localdomain>   $ On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, JF Mezei wrote:  D > Nop. In the second suggestion, BACKUP was used to copy an already F > existing saveset FILE to tape.  No double enclosure into a save set.  C The BACKUP command you specified (which I copy and paste from your   previous posting here) was:   5          BACKUP $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1:SAVESET.BCK   E I think this creates a saveset on the tape called SAVESET.BCK, which  B contains the file SAVESET.BCK.  My understanding is that whenever 1 BACKUP writes to tape, it creates a saveset.  At  S <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/6048/6048pro_025.html#startsubcommand_153>,   it says   :      ... An output specifier that refers to tape is always"      treated as a BACKUP save set.  @ But I don't have a working tape drive here, so I can't prove it.     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:25:14 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam>  Subject: Re: Backup question* Message-ID: <TYHre.4266$eL5.1941@fe04.lga>   Peter Weaver wrote: F >>I too would think backup is (much) more efficient with tapes and for >>reading files from disk.E >>That`s why I wanted to stay away from COPY (and probably tools like  >>TAPECOPY) if possible.  H > I should have mentioned that TAPECOPY.MAR does verify the output tape.I > Once the output tape is written it rewinds both tapes and compares them E > block by block. We had to copy 20 some-odd tapes at one time and we ; > tested several to make sure TAPECOPY was not lying to us.   H So, it seems that with TAPECOPY, the original poster has a solution for # producing 2 identical backup tapes.   C Make backup(s) from disk(s) to tape1/device1, then use TAPECOPY to  I replicate the contents from one tape1/device1 to the other tape2/device2.    Voila!  I No monkeying around with /RECORD /SINCE, etc and possibly different file  C states between 2 backup runs or needing enough extra disk space to  . temporarily hold all he data in the backup(s).   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:07:25 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com> Subject: Re: Backup question* Message-ID: <NqJre.3917$yw4.1863@trnddc09>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: b > In article <8iGre.2340$g4.32696@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes: > < >>"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( >>news:42AF2975.94EC04E9@teksavvy.com... >> >>>Rob Brown wrote:  >>>  >>>>What about:  >>>>... , >>>>         COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1:, >>>>         COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE2: >>> H >>>It is my understanding (can someone confirm ?) that BACKUP has better3 >>>handling of tape errors/problems than COPY does.  >>> K >>>Also, would BACKUP use large buffers to write to tape, allowowing faster C >>>and more efficent tape operation compared to COPY ? Or does that J >>>disapear when you use backup to copy files instead of create savesets ? >>N >>I too would think backup is (much) more efficient with tapes and for reading >>files from disk.E >>That`s why I wanted to stay away from COPY (and probably tools like  >>TAPECOPY) if possible. >  > D > I, on the other hand, would think that COPY is more efficient than= > BACKUP.  Strip away the redundancy groups, the CRCs and the A > soft error recovery logic and you have something lean and mean. > > Factor in a little read ahead and write behind and use it on6 > huge files and COPY should leave BACKUP in the dust.  D That has *never* been true in the past.  BACKUP has always been muchC more efficient, even when doing a disk-to-disk, file copy (i.e. not  backing up to a saveset.)   E However, V8.2 has some new stuff in COPY to soup it up, and might now E be competitive.  I haven't tried it yet.  Anyone have any experience?   F Anyone who went to the boot camp want to violate their NDA and tell us0 about V8.3, and how fast COPY is on an x86?  :-)   > 	John Briggs >      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:19:49 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Backup question/ Message-ID: <BED4B425.F97C%roktsci@comcast.net>   A On 6/14/05 10:53 AM, in article YREre.6990$Ub4.4139@fe06.lga, "Z"  <Z@no.spam> wrote:  I What you are talking about is Save Set Replication, or Cloning tapes. The K problem is that all tapes are not created equal. If you have a multi-volume J backup tape, making a copy is not as straight forward as you might expect.L The target tape volume will most likely hold a few more or a few less blocksG than the source volume, so the transition in a saveset will most likely I occur in a different place. And the new volume will then have to have new K volume, file and saveset header records written at the beginning of the new  volume.   L There are many software products that will do this replication. HP's Saveset) Manager or MTI's TapeControl for example.    Jeff Cameron     > Syltrem wrote: >> Hi  >>  J >> I have a requirement to take backups and save to 2 different locations.N >> To keep everything simple, let`s say I want to perform the same backup on 2 >> tape drives.  >  > Is it possible to: > " > Backup disk(s) -> Tape device 1.( > Backup tape device 1 -> Tape device 2. > + > (I've never tried a tape -> tape backup).    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:15:41 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Backup question, Message-ID: <42AF7311.E6E22CF3@teksavvy.com>   Rob Brown wrote:7 >          BACKUP $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1:SAVESET.BCK  > F > I think this creates a saveset on the tape called SAVESET.BCK, whichC > contains the file SAVESET.BCK.  My understanding is that whenever 2 > BACKUP writes to tape, it creates a saveset.  AtT > <http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/6048/6048pro_025.html#startsubcommand_153>,  . Perhaps the VMS engineers could chime in here.   I seem to be correct:    $ mount mua0: test- %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, TEST mounted on _VELO$MUA0: % $ backup/log login.com mua0:login.com D %BACKUP-F-MOUNTFOR, MUA0:[SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM; must be mounted /FOREIGN $ backup/log login.com mua0:@ %BACKUP-F-SAVSETNAM, save-set name must be in first list element $      And to make matters worse:% $ backup login.com login.bck/save_set   4 $ backup login.bck/save mua0:login.bck/save_set /log@ %BACKUP-F-ONEF11DEV, both input and output must not be save sets    C So it really seems like backup can't be used to copy files to tape. < There are a few utilities that can be used, as well as copy.  D Was Backup ever capable of copying files to/from tape ? I distinctlyE remember being told that backup was much better to copy files to/from @ tape.  Maybe it was some hallucination due to breathing in magic1 mushroom spores while cycling in the countryside.   
 (VAX VMS 7.2)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:42:52 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: Backup question7 Message-ID: <8660a3a105061417426c373619@mail.gmail.com>   5 On 6/14/05, Syltrem <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote:  >=20< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( > news:42AF2975.94EC04E9@teksavvy.com... > > Rob Brown wrote: > > > What about: 	 > > > ... . > > >          COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1:. > > >          COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE2: > > I > > It is my understanding (can someone confirm ?) that BACKUP has better 4 > > handling of tape errors/problems than COPY does. > >    Correct.  L > > Also, would BACKUP use large buffers to write to tape, allowowing faste= r : > > and more efficent tape operation compared to COPY ?=20   It does if you tell it to.   Or does thatK > > disapear when you use backup to copy files instead of create savesets ?  >=20  . There's a reason for all those qualifiers. =20E It gives you control (within certain parameters) of what BACKUP does.    WWWebb  L > I too would think backup is (much) more efficient with tapes and for read= ing  > files from disk.E > That`s why I wanted to stay away from COPY (and probably tools like  > TAPECOPY) if possible. >=20	 > Syltrem  >=20 >=20 >=20  E COPYing files to tape is painful at best, and error checking  ( /READ  /WRITE ) is minimal.F I'd stick with a block size less than or equal to 32256, as that's the  size limit for savesets on disk. --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 22:42:47 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Backup questionB Message-ID: <1118814167.850493.28830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Syltrem wrote:E > "Z" <Z@no.spam> wrote in message news:o%Fre.565$mD6.380@fe07.lga...  > > Syltrem wrote:E > > >>   you want to spend some money.  Another solution is to not do M > > >>   /since=backup/record on the first backup.  Instead keep track of the N > > >>   START time of the 1st backup command and do /since=that-time the nextJ > > >>   time you do the first backup.  If you are doing the backups via aG > > >>   command file, that command file could automatically maintain a F > > >>   backup-time file, something like what's built into UNIX dump. > > M > > > It crossed my mind to record the backup date somewhere, but I dismissed  > itK > > > at some point. But now after reading what you say I thought it over : J > > > BACKUP /SINCE=&Last_Backup_Time/BACKUP would backup exactly the same > files J > > > as the preceeding /SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD and would include none of the > files 0 > > > created in between (as per documentation).2 > > > So the 2 would contain the exact same files. > > >  > > > So the trick is to: ! > > > $ DATE = F$CVT(,"ABSOLUTE") 2 > > > $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD to the 1st tape1 > > > $ BACKUP/SINCE=&date/BACKUP to the 2nd tape  > > >  > > > Will test  > > H > > While the file lists should be the same, you can still get differentK > > data in each backup since the contents of the files may change from one  > > backup to the next.  > > B > > Judging from your base post, I think you want identical tapes. >  >  > I understand that.N > Having the same files, and not missing any file on the next backup,  is what	 > I need.  >  > Thanks	 > Syltrem     D I don't think you need exactly the same files on each tape. What youE need is for each set of tapes to be valid and self-consistent. So one D set of tapes would restore the disk back to its condition at time X,F but the second set of tapes would bring the disk back to its condition8 at time  X + 30  minutes. I don't see this as a problem.  ; You could do two full backups starting at 1-JUL-2005 00:00.   < Then, starting at 2-JUL-2005 00:00, do two backups each with /MODIFIED/SINCE=1-JUL-2005.   < Then, starting at 3-JUL-2005 00:00, do two backups each with /MODIFIED/SINCE=2-JUL-2005.    Etc.  G While these won't have identical files, each set is perfectly valid and  self-consistent.  C Except for one thing: Files copied to the disk via BACKUP. That is, G suppose you use BACKUP to copy some files from one disk to another. You F could end up with files each of whose modification date is from beforeG the date of your last backup but with no backup date. These files won't E be picked up by /MODIFIED/SINCE=<date> but they would be picked up by F /SINCE=BACKUP. But if you use /SINCE=BACKUP you need to use /RECORD at= some point and that screws things up as you've already noted.   A Aside from the aforementioned exception, this should work because F you're not missing any files and the .DIR files on the last tape (in aF given set of tapes) will have the final word on what files are presentD on the disk. So if you have some extra copies of some files, I thinkB BACKUP/INCREMENTAL will be able to sort it all out. As long as theG dates you use in /MODIFIED/SINCE=<date> each go at least as far back as G the start time of the previous backup in the same series, you shouldn't  be missing any files.   C You could try to fine tune the dates to those that would be used if G each set of incrementals were done by different people (i.e., using the B actual start times as the since time for the next incremental save@ within each series), but I don't know if that would be worth the trouble in your case.   2 Hey, it's late, so take this with a grain of salt!   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 08:11:08 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <19GNTkRCCvyK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <42AF3EAA.6B633708@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Rob Brown wrote:( >>     $ BACKUP/IMAGE... $DISK1: $DISK2:3 >>     $ BACKUP/IMAGE... $DISK2: $TAPE1:SAVESET.BCK 3 >>     $ BACKUP/IMAGE... $DISK2: $TAPE2:SAVESET.BCK  >>  I >> I prefer this because then files can be directly restored from tape if H >> necessary.  If the tape contains a saveset containing a saveset, thenE >> the saveset must be restored to disk before files can be recovered  >> from it.  > C > Nop. In the second suggestion, BACKUP was used to copy an already G > existing saveset FILE to tape.  No double enclosure into a save set.    C Nop.  BACKUP doesn't do save set on disk to copied save set on tape D copies.  It always encapsulates the input as a saveset when creating output on tape.   F The only place backup does straight file to file copies without eitherE writing into a save set or reading from a save set is on disk to disk  operations.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:26:23 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> Subject: Re: Backup question, Message-ID: <42B056AC.369EA59B@teksavvy.com>   Syltrem wrote: > So the solution with > $ DATE = F$CVT(,"ABSOLUTE") 7 > $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/RECORD to the 1st tape L > $ BACKUP/SINCE=&date/BACKUP to the 2nd tape (I mean, to the other VMS node
 > via DECnet)  > is the best so far I think.     G Wouldn't the second command only backup files mofidied since "date" and - hence be quite different from the first one ?    What about:   $ $write sys$output "Starting backups" $SPAWN/NOWAIT/PROC=BACKUP1V BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/NORECORD/IGNORE=INTERLOCK $disk1: $tape1:saveset.bck/save $SPAWN/NOWAIT/PROC=BACKUP2Q BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/NORECORD/IGNORE=INTERLOCK $disk1: $destination2/save 3 $write sys$output "Waiting for backups to complete"  $!
 $waitloop:
 $	backup1 = 0 
 $	backup2 = 0  $	context = "" $!	 $pidloop:  $	pid = f$pid(context)" $	if pid .eqs. "" then goto endpid" $	procnam = f$getjpi(pid,"PRCNAM")- $	if procnam .eqs. "BACKUP1" THEN BACKUP1 = 1 - $	if procnam .eqs. "BACKUP2" then BACKUP2 = 1 
 $goto pidloop  $! $endpid: $if backup1 .or. backup2 $then  $	wait 00:05:00  $	goto waitloop  $endif $!1 $! Both backups processes are no longer on system B $BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/RECORD/IGNORE=INTERLOCK $disk1 NLA0:    F Note the above might be some utility that can set the backup recordingH date to the current date to all files. And it doesn't really know if theC 2 backups completed succesfully, it only knows that they completed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:29:16 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Backup question, Message-ID: <42B05758.16F45356@teksavvy.com>  	 Question:   F Could one create a mailbox device large enough to hold a backup block,
 and then have   " BACKUP/RECORD $DISK1  MBAxxx:/SAVE  D And have an application that reads data from MBAxxx: and then does 2G concurrent writes to tape ?  This way, you'd have 2 identical savesets, F and one backup command (thus much faster) as well as only have to deal with one backup recording pass.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:42:26 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <IMZre.2389$g4.32712@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   E "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> a crit dans le message de & news:42B056AC.369EA59B@teksavvy.com... > Syltrem wrote: > > So the solution with > > $ DATE = F$CVT(,"ABSOLUTE") 9 > > $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/RECORD to the 1st tape I > > $ BACKUP/SINCE=&date/BACKUP to the 2nd tape (I mean, to the other VMS  node > > via DECnet)  > > is the best so far I think.  >  > I > Wouldn't the second command only backup files mofidied since "date" and / > hence be quite different from the first one ?  >     I I see this one as backing up all files modified after the recorded backup 1 date (and it records the new backup date as well) 5 $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/RECORD to the 1st tape   K and this one as backing up all files backed up since the date. And the date 4 would be that of the beginning of the command above.J $ BACKUP/SINCE=&date/BACKUP to the 2nd tape (I mean, to the other VMS node  
 Test case:  6 $ direr/dat=(mod,back) $1$DKC500:[*...]/notrail/nohead $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE1.DAT;1 C                      15-JUN-2005 13:27:52.62   <No backup recorded>  $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;1 C                      15-JUN-2005 13:27:54.26   <No backup recorded>  $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE3.DAT;1 C                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:03.38   <No backup recorded>  $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE4.DAT;1 C                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:06.32   <No backup recorded>  $ " $! --- Backup with the 1st commandL $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/RECORD $1$DKC500:[000000...]/log nl:a.bck/sav7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]000000.DIR;1 5 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR1.DIR;1 4 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE1.DAT;14 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;15 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR2.DIR;1 4 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE3.DAT;14 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE4.DAT;1: %BACKUP-I-STARTRECORD, starting backup date recording pass $ 6 $ direr/dat=(mod,back) $1$DKC500:[*...]/notrail/nohead $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE1.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:27:52.62  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:27:54.26  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE3.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:03.38  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE4.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:06.32  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  $ & $! ---- Create a new file just for fun" $ CREATE $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE5.DAT $ " $! --- Backup with the 2nd commandI $ BACKUP/SINCE="15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36"/BACKUP $1$DKC500:[000000...]/log  nl:a.bck/sav7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]000000.DIR;1 5 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR1.DIR;1 4 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE1.DAT;14 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;15 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR2.DIR;1 4 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE3.DAT;14 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE4.DAT;1 $ ( $! ------- The same files were backed up $ % $! -------- Now modify file FILE2.DAT / $ open/read/write f $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;1 	 $ close f 6 $ direr/dat=(mod,back) $1$DKC500:[*...]/notrail/nohead $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE1.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:27:52.62  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:30:53.12  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE3.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:03.38  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE4.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:06.32  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE5.DAT;1 C                      15-JUN-2005 13:29:39.21   <No backup recorded>  $ B $! --- Perform the 1st backup again, as if we were on the next day2 $! --- We`ve got 1 new file, and one modified fileL $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/RECORD $1$DKC500:[000000...]/log nl:a.bck/sav7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]000000.DIR;1 5 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR1.DIR;1 4 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;15 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR2.DIR;1 4 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE5.DAT;1: %BACKUP-I-STARTRECORD, starting backup date recording passK $! ---- all is fine - we only backed up the files modified or created after  yesterday's backupI $! ---- and we can validate that the 2nd backup command will again backup  the same files as the 1st one 6 $ direr/dat=(mod,back) $1$DKC500:[*...]/notrail/nohead $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE1.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:27:52.62  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:30:53.12  15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28  $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE3.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:03.38  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE4.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:06.32  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE5.DAT;1 E                      15-JUN-2005 13:29:39.21  15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28  $ I $ BACKUP/SINCE="15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28"/BACKUP $1$DKC500:[000000...]/log  nl:a.b ck/sav7 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]000000.DIR;1 5 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR1.DIR;1 4 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;15 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR2.DIR;1 4 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE5.DAT;1 $  $! --- and it does  I One important thing is to backup [000000...] and not [*...] as the backup @ date of the .DIRs in the root directory must be recorded for theG /SINCE=BACKUP to work well (otherwise it will backup all files, all the  time)    Syltrem    OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 17:29:20 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Backup questionC Message-ID: <1118881760.825472.191980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Syltrem wrote:I > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> a =E9crit dans le message de ( > news:42B056AC.369EA59B@teksavvy.com... > > Syltrem wrote: > > > So the solution with# > > > $ DATE =3D F$CVT(,"ABSOLUTE") = > > > $ BACKUP/SINCE=3DBACKUP/MODIFIED/RECORD to the 1st tape L > > > $ BACKUP/SINCE=3D&date/BACKUP to the 2nd tape (I mean, to the other V= MS > node [=2E..] K > $! ---- and we can validate that the 2nd backup command will again backup  > the same files as the 1st one : > $ direr/dat=3D(mod,back) $1$DKC500:[*...]/notrail/nohead > $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE1.DAT;1 G >                      15-JUN-2005 13:27:52.62  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  > $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;1 G >                      15-JUN-2005 13:30:53.12  15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28  > $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE3.DAT;1 G >                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:03.38  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  > $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE4.DAT;1 G >                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:06.32  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  > $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE5.DAT;1 G >                      15-JUN-2005 13:29:39.21  15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28  > $ L > $ BACKUP/SINCE=3D"15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28"/BACKUP $1$DKC500:[000000...]/l= og > nl:a.b > ck/sav9 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]000000.DIR;1 7 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR1.DIR;1 6 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;17 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR2.DIR;1 6 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE5.DAT;1 > $  > $! --- and it does  @ But what happens if some files are renamed, modified, or deletedF between the start of the first backup and the start of the second? YouF won't get the same files in each save set, in general. And what if one$ or more directory files are renamed?   [=2E..]    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:03:26 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Backup question/ Message-ID: <BED61DEE.FA6D%roktsci@comcast.net>   L It is much easier than everyone is making it. If you want to clone a tape ofI savesets, assuming you have already made your backup savesets on tape and G that tape is on MKA100, and you have a blank tape on MKA200, you can do  this.    $MOUNT/OVER=IDENT MKA100:  $INI MKA200: NEWLAB  $MOUNT MKA200: NEWLAB  $COPY MKA100:*.* MKA200:*.* 
 $DISM MKA100: 
 $DISM MKA200:   H If you want to rename the savesets as you copy them, you can specify theF input savesets by name and select your output saveset name in the copy command explicitly.   I This can be done as long as your backups do not span multiple volumes. If K they do span multiple volumes then you have to write a higher level program K to enable the built in OpenVMS MME call back routines before you do the VMS * COPY command. (See the MME documentation).   Jeff Cameron  I On 6/15/05 9:26 AM, in article 42B056AC.369EA59B@teksavvy.com, "JF Mezei" & <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:   > Syltrem wrote: >> So the solution with  >> $ DATE = F$CVT(,"ABSOLUTE")8 >> $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/RECORD to the 1st tapeM >> $ BACKUP/SINCE=&date/BACKUP to the 2nd tape (I mean, to the other VMS node  >> via DECnet) >> is the best so far I think. >  > I > Wouldn't the second command only backup files mofidied since "date" and / > hence be quite different from the first one ?  > 
 > What about:  > & > $write sys$output "Starting backups" > $SPAWN/NOWAIT/PROC=BACKUP1@ > BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/NORECORD/IGNORE=INTERLOCK $disk1: > $tape1:saveset.bck/save  > $SPAWN/NOWAIT/PROC=BACKUP2@ > BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/NORECORD/IGNORE=INTERLOCK $disk1: > $destination2/save5 > $write sys$output "Waiting for backups to complete"  > $! > $waitloop: > $ backup1 = 0  > $ backup2 = 0  > $ context = "" > $! > $pidloop:  > $ pid = f$pid(context)$ > $ if pid .eqs. "" then goto endpid$ > $ procnam = f$getjpi(pid,"PRCNAM")/ > $ if procnam .eqs. "BACKUP1" THEN BACKUP1 = 1 / > $ if procnam .eqs. "BACKUP2" then BACKUP2 = 1  > $goto pidloop  > $!
 > $endpid: > $if backup1 .or. backup2 > $then  > $ wait 00:05:00  > $ goto waitloop  > $endif > $!3 > $! Both backups processes are no longer on system D > $BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/RECORD/IGNORE=INTERLOCK $disk1 NLA0: >  > H > Note the above might be some utility that can set the backup recordingJ > date to the current date to all files. And it doesn't really know if theE > 2 backups completed succesfully, it only knows that they completed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:57:38 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> Subject: Re: Backup question/ Message-ID: <00A45575.54067C23.1@tachysoft.com>   > >From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.504279.killspam.00c3 (Wayne Sewell) >Subject: Re: Backup question  >Date: 15 Jun 2005 04:22:56 CDT / >Message-ID: <JqIGcZm3dZyb@tachxxsoftxxconsult> + >From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>  >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >Subject: Re: Backup question 
 >Lines: 24   > ; >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message ' >news:42AF2975.94EC04E9@teksavvy.com...  >> Rob Brown wrote:  >> > What about: >> > ...- >> >          COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1: - >> >          COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE2:  >>H >> It is my understanding (can someone confirm ?) that BACKUP has better3 >> handling of tape errors/problems than COPY does.  >>K >> Also, would BACKUP use large buffers to write to tape, allowowing faster C >> and more efficent tape operation compared to COPY ? Or does that J >> disapear when you use backup to copy files instead of create savesets ? > M >I too would think backup is (much) more efficient with tapes and for reading  >files from disk. D >That`s why I wanted to stay away from COPY (and probably tools like >TAPECOPY) if possible.     O Rather than copy after the fact, it's possible to make vms backup write two (or M more) copies of the backup tape in the first place, if you have multiple tape H drives of the same type.  The tapesys product contains a facility calledO CMP/TSHAD (tape shadowing).  It is basically a virtual tape drive that fans out L to two or more physical tape drives.  tapesys does the backup to the virtualK tape drive, and all operations are simultaneously performed on the physical F drives.  Therefore you have two or more identical copies of the backupO savesets.  Created at the time of the backup.  The alternate tape(s) are in the J tapesys database like the original, and can be automatically sent to vault/ destination(s) independently of the first tape.   , If interested, goto www.softwarepartners.com   Wayne O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== P Jake Blues:"You traded the Caddy for a microphone? ...... Okay, I can buy that."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:17:36 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam>  Subject: Re: Backup question) Message-ID: <lb6se.2330$uS2.351@fe03.lga>   
 AEF wrote:B > But what happens if some files are renamed, modified, or deletedH > between the start of the first backup and the start of the second? YouH > won't get the same files in each save set, in general. And what if one& > or more directory files are renamed?  = That potential issue has been explained to him several times.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 03:03:10 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Backup question0 Message-ID: <11b28uk6gn41ba3@corp.supernews.com>   Wayne Sewell wrote: ? >>From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.504279.killspam.00c3 (Wayne Sewell)  >>Subject: Re: Backup question  >>Date: 15 Jun 2005 04:22:56 CDT0 >>Message-ID: <JqIGcZm3dZyb@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, >>From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> >>X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms  >>Subject: Re: Backup question >>Lines: 24  >  > < >>"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( >>news:42AF2975.94EC04E9@teksavvy.com... >> >>>Rob Brown wrote:  >>>  >>>>What about:  >>>>... , >>>>         COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1:, >>>>         COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE2: >>> H >>>It is my understanding (can someone confirm ?) that BACKUP has better3 >>>handling of tape errors/problems than COPY does.  >>> K >>>Also, would BACKUP use large buffers to write to tape, allowowing faster C >>>and more efficent tape operation compared to COPY ? Or does that J >>>disapear when you use backup to copy files instead of create savesets ? >>N >>I too would think backup is (much) more efficient with tapes and for reading >>files from disk.E >>That`s why I wanted to stay away from COPY (and probably tools like  >>TAPECOPY) if possible. >  >  > Q > Rather than copy after the fact, it's possible to make vms backup write two (or O > more) copies of the backup tape in the first place, if you have multiple tape J > drives of the same type.  The tapesys product contains a facility calledQ > CMP/TSHAD (tape shadowing).  It is basically a virtual tape drive that fans out N > to two or more physical tape drives.  tapesys does the backup to the virtualM > tape drive, and all operations are simultaneously performed on the physical H > drives.  Therefore you have two or more identical copies of the backupQ > savesets.  Created at the time of the backup.  The alternate tape(s) are in the L > tapesys database like the original, and can be automatically sent to vault1 > destination(s) independently of the first tape.  > . > If interested, goto www.softwarepartners.com >  > Wayne Q > =============================================================================== P > Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com= > http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    Q > =============================================================================== R > Jake Blues:"You traded the Caddy for a microphone? ...... Okay, I can buy that."   About time Wayne.  :-)  E I do have a question that was raised in one of the many responses to  H this topic.  It's rather likely that different tapes will vary slightly  in their total capacity.  I For a multiple tape backup, how is this handled when there are to be two   or more copies of the backup?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:23:39 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <EIogFYo5$06n@eisner.encompasserve.org>   @ In article <YREre.6990$Ub4.4139@fe06.lga>, Z <Z@no.spam> writes: > Syltrem wrote: >> Hi  >>  J >> I have a requirement to take backups and save to 2 different locations.N >> To keep everything simple, let`s say I want to perform the same backup on 2 >> tape drives.  >  > Is it possible to: > " > Backup disk(s) -> Tape device 1.( > Backup tape device 1 -> Tape device 2.  @    BACKUP won't do it.  TCOPY will do it.  Depending on the tapeC    technology and BACKUP qualifiers COPY may be able to do it (COPY .    can always do it if /interchange was used).   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:29:12 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <lCB08y77P9qN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <42AF20DD.C4D07585@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  / > 	BACKUP $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1:SAVESET.BCK / > 	BACKUP $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE2:SAVESET.BCK   H    Bad idea.  You've made a saveset on tape that contains a saveset thatF    contains the original files, so you'll have to use BACKUP twice to E    restore the original files, once to a disk with enough empty space D    to store the entire original saveset even if you only want to get    one small file.  >    You've also duplicated the overhead of CRC calculations and    redundancy block building.   K    Once you have a saveset on disk, you should use COPY to put that saveset F    on tape so that you can restore a file directly from the tape usingF    a single pass of BACKUP.  Make sure you MOUNT the tape as a labeledE    tape using the same /BLOCKSIZE as the BACKUP command that made the     saveset.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:32:09 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <6AHo6g3dLjpP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <XtFre.2333$g4.32600@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes: >  > So the trick is to:  > $ DATE = F$CVT(,"ABSOLUTE") . > $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/RECORD to the 1st tape- > $ BACKUP/SINCE=&date/BACKUP to the 2nd tape   E    Yes, that will work and is simpler than keeping a separate file to     track the date.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:41:02 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <awBGBsONjjCP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506141506370.14189@localhost.localdomain>, Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> writes: & > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, JF Mezei wrote: > E >> Nop. In the second suggestion, BACKUP was used to copy an already  G >> existing saveset FILE to tape.  No double enclosure into a save set.  > E > The BACKUP command you specified (which I copy and paste from your   > previous posting here) was:  > 7 >          BACKUP $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1:SAVESET.BCK  > G > I think this creates a saveset on the tape called SAVESET.BCK, which  D > contains the file SAVESET.BCK.  My understanding is that whenever / > BACKUP writes to tape, it creates a saveset.    H    That is correct.  You can only use BACKUP to copy files disk to disk.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:42:57 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <mmZjnbLG5knF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <42AF7311.E6E22CF3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > F > Was Backup ever capable of copying files to/from tape ? I distinctlyG > remember being told that backup was much better to copy files to/from B > tape.  Maybe it was some hallucination due to breathing in magic3 > mushroom spores while cycling in the countryside.  >  > (VAX VMS 7.2)   @   BACKUP isw much more reliable to "copy" files to and back from    tape, but it isn't doing COPY.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:45:48 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <pbsTnFbS0Vy0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <42B05758.16F45356@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Question:  > H > Could one create a mailbox device large enough to hold a backup block, > and then have  > $ > BACKUP/RECORD $DISK1  MBAxxx:/SAVE > F > And have an application that reads data from MBAxxx: and then does 2I > concurrent writes to tape ?  This way, you'd have 2 identical savesets, H > and one backup command (thus much faster) as well as only have to deal! > with one backup recording pass.   4   I think so.  Why don't you try it and let us know?   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:48:13 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <57MTNqgR1DkI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <1118881760.825472.191980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > B > But what happens if some files are renamed, modified, or deletedH > between the start of the first backup and the start of the second? YouH > won't get the same files in each save set, in general. And what if one& > or more directory files are renamed? >   F    No, but the savesets will be consistent.  That is a proper restore F    could be achieved either by using only tapes from the first pass or,    by using only tapes from the second pass.  E    There would be a few changes that might make it onto the last tape C    of the second pass, but there are always changes that come after     the save pass of any BACKUP.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:36:28 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <2$FgmdhxTpQh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <42AF2975.94EC04E9@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Rob Brown wrote: >> What about: >> ...+ >>          COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE1: + >>          COPY $DISK2:SAVESET.BCK $TAPE2:  > G > It is my understanding (can someone confirm ?) that BACKUP has better 2 > handling of tape errors/problems than COPY does.  F    BACKUP has different handling of tape errors and adds both CRCs andD    redundancy blocks to help recover from errors.  The former is whyF    COPY can't always read a saveset that was directly written to tape.G    Nothing is lost in the ability to recover frm errors in doing a COPY "    of a saveset from disk to tape.  J > Also, would BACKUP use large buffers to write to tape, allowowing fasterB > and more efficent tape operation compared to COPY ? Or does thatI > disapear when you use backup to copy files instead of create savesets ?   E    That's one of the reasons MOUNT has /BLOCKSIZE.  If you want to be C    able to restore files directly from the tape you'll also need to B    match BACKUP's /BLOCKSIZE with MOUNT's /BLOCKSIZE.  The default    values are not the same.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:39:42 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <JMaGkX+LVZSh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <42AF3EAA.6B633708@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > C > Nop. In the second suggestion, BACKUP was used to copy an already G > existing saveset FILE to tape.  No double enclosure into a save set.   >        Something BACKUP will not do.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:49:37 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <2TDaL2k25VPd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <BED61DEE.FA6D%roktsci@comcast.net>, Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> writes:N > It is much easier than everyone is making it. If you want to clone a tape ofK > savesets, assuming you have already made your backup savesets on tape and I > that tape is on MKA100, and you have a blank tape on MKA200, you can do  > this.   G    This not guarranteed to work since BACKUP may have used non-standard >    error handling in writing the first tape which COPY doesn't(    understand.  Thus the need for TCOPY.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 06:50:48 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Backup questionB Message-ID: <1118929848.272957.66370@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:l > In article <1118881760.825472.191980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > > D > > But what happens if some files are renamed, modified, or deletedJ > > between the start of the first backup and the start of the second? YouJ > > won't get the same files in each save set, in general. And what if one( > > or more directory files are renamed? > >  > G >    No, but the savesets will be consistent.  That is a proper restore H >    could be achieved either by using only tapes from the first pass or. >    by using only tapes from the second pass.    E Well, I didn't say they wouldn't be consistent. I haven't had time to F think it through because there are many possible file manipulations toG consider. My initial feeling is that this should work. Anyway, I mostly B wanted to say that the method will not get the same files in every? case. But if I can come up with a counterexample, I'll post it.   A One "silly" counterexample would be a file copied to the disk via C BACKUP/RECORD giving a backup date that is later than the mod date. C Such a file will not get picked up by either pass. Since this foils D even the single-pass method (when /SINCE=BACKUP is used), it doesn'tF really count as a bona fide counterexample. But I worry there might be something else.     G >    There would be a few changes that might make it onto the last tape E >    of the second pass, but there are always changes that come after ! >    the save pass of any BACKUP.     D Thanks for all your posts on this subject. It looks like you made 10 posts in a row!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:54:47 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <gxfse.2405$g4.32667@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   9 "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> a crit dans le message de = news:1118881760.825472.191980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...      Syltrem wrote:G > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> a crit dans le message de ( > news:42B056AC.369EA59B@teksavvy.com... > > Syltrem wrote: > > > So the solution with! > > > $ DATE = F$CVT(,"ABSOLUTE") ; > > > $ BACKUP/SINCE=BACKUP/MODIFIED/RECORD to the 1st tape K > > > $ BACKUP/SINCE=&date/BACKUP to the 2nd tape (I mean, to the other VMS  > node [...] K > $! ---- and we can validate that the 2nd backup command will again backup  > the same files as the 1st one 8 > $ direr/dat=(mod,back) $1$DKC500:[*...]/notrail/nohead > $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE1.DAT;1 G >                      15-JUN-2005 13:27:52.62  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  > $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;1 G >                      15-JUN-2005 13:30:53.12  15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28  > $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE3.DAT;1 G >                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:03.38  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  > $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE4.DAT;1 G >                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:06.32  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  > $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE5.DAT;1 G >                      15-JUN-2005 13:29:39.21  15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28  > $ K > $ BACKUP/SINCE="15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28"/BACKUP $1$DKC500:[000000...]/log  > nl:a.b > ck/sav9 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]000000.DIR;1 7 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR1.DIR;1 6 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;17 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR2.DIR;1 6 > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE5.DAT;1 > $  > $! --- and it does  C >> But what happens if some files are renamed, modified, or deleted I >> between the start of the first backup and the start of the second? You I >> won't get the same files in each save set, in general. And what if one ' >> or more directory files are renamed?   J A deleted file will not be on the 2nd tape. That`s ok since it`s not meant# to be recovered with a /INCREMENTAL J A modified file (really modified - not a new version) will be backed up by4 the 2nd backup since its backup date is not changed.J A new file will not be backed up, so that`s consistent with the 1st backup- Same for directory files as far as I can tell   F A renamed file or directory will be backed up by the 2nd backup and be' restored appropriately by /INCREMENTAL. L As for the 1st backup, if (set of tapes) restored, it will be consistent andK more up-to-date (showing the renamed file) if another incremental backup is K taken on the next day. Same thing would happen for any backup you may take, A as a backup only represents the files at a certain point in time.    Thanks to all for your input. ) Will do the programming and testing soon. & If something arises I'll let you know.D The goal is to have another Alpha in a remote location, that holds aL functionnal copy of (some of) the disks from the production machine (backups> taken every night), to speed up recovery in case of disaster :J Edit SYLOGICALS.COM, boot from the "copied over" system disk, then restore7 the databases (and the batch/print queue file!) and go. H We would save the time no to do full + incremental restore of system andL applications disks. Databases archive logs file would also be on the machine (moved over regularly).    --   Syltrem    OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 9.2.0.5H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address---    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:41:56 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Backup questionC Message-ID: <1118932916.121318.308060@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Syltrem wrote:= > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> a =E9crit dans le message de ? > news:1118881760.825472.191980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  >  >  > Syltrem wrote:K > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> a =E9crit dans le message de * > > news:42B056AC.369EA59B@teksavvy.com... > > > Syltrem wrote: [=2E..] L > > $! ---- and we can validate that the 2nd backup command will again back= up! > > the same files as the 1st one < > > $ direr/dat=3D(mod,back) $1$DKC500:[*...]/notrail/nohead > > $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE1.DAT;1 I > >                      15-JUN-2005 13:27:52.62  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  > > $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;1 I > >                      15-JUN-2005 13:30:53.12  15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28  > > $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE3.DAT;1 I > >                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:03.38  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  > > $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE4.DAT;1 I > >                      15-JUN-2005 13:28:06.32  15-JUN-2005 13:29:02.36  > > $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE5.DAT;1 I > >                      15-JUN-2005 13:29:39.21  15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28  > > $ L > > $ BACKUP/SINCE=3D"15-JUN-2005 13:32:42.28"/BACKUP $1$DKC500:[000000...]= /log
 > > nl:a.b
 > > ck/sav; > > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]000000.DIR;1 9 > > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR1.DIR;1 8 > > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR1]FILE2.DAT;19 > > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[000000]DIR2.DIR;1 8 > > %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied $1$DKC500:[DIR2]FILE5.DAT;1 > > $  > > $! --- and it does > E > >> But what happens if some files are renamed, modified, or deleted K > >> between the start of the first backup and the start of the second? You K > >> won't get the same files in each save set, in general. And what if one ) > >> or more directory files are renamed?  > L > A deleted file will not be on the 2nd tape. That`s ok since it`s not meant% > to be recovered with a /INCREMENTAL L > A modified file (really modified - not a new version) will be backed up by6 > the 2nd backup since its backup date is not changed.L > A new file will not be backed up, so that`s consistent with the 1st backup/ > Same for directory files as far as I can tell  > H > A renamed file or directory will be backed up by the 2nd backup and be) > restored appropriately by /INCREMENTAL. L > As for the 1st backup, if (set of tapes) restored, it will be consistent = and L > more up-to-date (showing the renamed file) if another incremental backup = isL > taken on the next day. Same thing would happen for any backup you may tak= e,C > as a backup only represents the files at a certain point in time.   E My comment was limited to saying that the tapes will not, in general, C have the same files. I made no claims about the usefulness of these  backups.  F Anyway, I see no reason that the first series incrementals should haveG a problem. I am not convinced yet about the second seires. I just worry F there may be some obscure scenario in which some needed files might beD missing from the second series. I think it's probably okay. If I canD find a non-silly counterexample, I will post it. See my other recentE post for how restoring or copying a file with BACKUP/RECORD can screw ' things up (the "silly" counterexample)!    [=2E..]    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 11:37:13 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <zHC9ey6Luj+d@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <11b28uk6gn41ba3@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:G > I do have a question that was raised in one of the many responses to  J > this topic.  It's rather likely that different tapes will vary slightly  > in their total capacity. > K > For a multiple tape backup, how is this handled when there are to be two   > or more copies of the backup?   C Without ever having seen the code for TSHAD, I'll offer the obvious * and trivial explanation of how it works...  B "When either of the physical drives returns from a write operationB  with the error code that indicates that it passed the EOT warningD  marker, the virtual drive will pass that warning on to the caller".  F "Thus the virtual reel capacity is the lesser of the actual capacities  of the two physical reels".  > On traditional mag tape, there is a reflective EOT marker thatH appears some 12 to 18 feet prior to physical end of tape (I've forgottenA the exact spec long since).  When you write past this marker, you @ get a warning code.  And your application then has a few feet of- tape on which to write end of volume markers.   = Since modern mag tape emulates traditional mag tape, the same  warning scheme still works.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 11:54:34 -05004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: Re: Backup question3 Message-ID: <iSZRnM0gf5m4@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <zHC9ey6Luj+d@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:\ > In article <11b28uk6gn41ba3@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:H >> I do have a question that was raised in one of the many responses to K >> this topic.  It's rather likely that different tapes will vary slightly   >> in their total capacity.  >>  L >> For a multiple tape backup, how is this handled when there are to be two   >> or more copies of the backup? > E > Without ever having seen the code for TSHAD, I'll offer the obvious , > and trivial explanation of how it works... > D > "When either of the physical drives returns from a write operationD >  with the error code that indicates that it passed the EOT warningF >  marker, the virtual drive will pass that warning on to the caller". > H > "Thus the virtual reel capacity is the lesser of the actual capacities >  of the two physical reels". > @ > On traditional mag tape, there is a reflective EOT marker thatJ > appears some 12 to 18 feet prior to physical end of tape (I've forgottenC > the exact spec long since).  When you write past this marker, you B > get a warning code.  And your application then has a few feet of/ > tape on which to write end of volume markers.  > ? > Since modern mag tape emulates traditional mag tape, the same  > warning scheme still works.  >  > 	John Briggs  A Some solutions I haven't seen in this thread are hardware ones.     E At my former employer we a tape drive that looked like a single drive D to the system, but had two drives in the cabinet.  It was a sort of E hardware tape shadowing box.  I think it was from Overland Data.  We  C also had a DLT tape copy system, which was a pair of DLTs and some  D magic box that hooked them up.  Put a tape in one, and blank in the 1 other, press copy, and voila, fresh offsite tape.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:06:54 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Backup question/ Message-ID: <BED77E4E.FB31%roktsci@comcast.net>   J On 6/16/05 5:49 AM, in article 2TDaL2k25VPd@eisner.encompasserve.org, "Bob9 Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:   > > In article <BED61DEE.FA6D%roktsci@comcast.net>, Jeff Cameron > <roktsci@comcast.net> writes: O >> It is much easier than everyone is making it. If you want to clone a tape of L >> savesets, assuming you have already made your backup savesets on tape andJ >> that tape is on MKA100, and you have a blank tape on MKA200, you can do >> this. > I >    This not guarranteed to work since BACKUP may have used non-standard @ >    error handling in writing the first tape which COPY doesn't* >    understand.  Thus the need for TCOPY. > L That is why you need the OpenVMS hooks provided by MME active. Once you have, provided the MME callbacks, this is handled.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:58:57 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>) Subject: Re: Batch utility to crop images + Message-ID: <d8nr01$1cp$1@news01.intel.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:^ > In article <42ACE889.90DCDD64@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > + >>What is the best tool on VMS to do that ?  >  > J >    IMHO the Fortran compiler.  Even if it is stuck at 77.  But I suppose0 >    you could use some other compiler instread.  F     Actually, "stuck" at F95 on Alpha (granted, F77 on VAX).  Would beC nice if development would continue so we could get F2003 on Alphas, / but indications are F2003 will be Itanium only.    	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 08:01:13 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: Batch utility to crop images 3 Message-ID: <Rl1uJfOqNVgC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <d8nr01$1cp$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:_ >> In article <42ACE889.90DCDD64@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >>  , >>>What is the best tool on VMS to do that ? >>   >>  K >>    IMHO the Fortran compiler.  Even if it is stuck at 77.  But I suppose 1 >>    you could use some other compiler instread.  > H >     Actually, "stuck" at F95 on Alpha (granted, F77 on VAX).  Would beE > nice if development would continue so we could get F2003 on Alphas, 1 > but indications are F2003 will be Itanium only.  >   %    Yes, I think the OP mentioned VAX.   K    It was a real disappointment when I cooked up some F90 code on my Alpha  A    in my hobbyist cluster and then tried to compile it on my VAX.   H    To consider "VAX Fortran" was once the defacto industry standard (the:    one all the competition claimed to be compatable with).   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 11:06:33 -0700 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com Subject: Re: cluster over DSL C Message-ID: <1118772393.720772.196700@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    ><d...@tsoft-inc.com> writes: H >> I'm wondering whether anyone other than me sometimes gets the feelingF >> that some are so 'fixated' on clustering, that they do so even whenG >> there aren't valid reasons to do so.  One of those types even states E >> that he's not running DECnet, and DECnet is a very good method for @ >> connecting VMS systems when shared everything isn't required. > F >It depends on what one is doing.  Yes, DECnet is better than TCPIP inB >many respects, but basic functionality (COPY/FTP, DIR/FTP etc) isD >present in TCPIP.  One has to jump through hoops to run DECnet in aG >TCPIP world (find a way to route it, run DECnet over IP which requires = >either Phase V or a non-HP stack) for a few more advantages. C >Clustering, howerver, especially coupled with HBVS, offers so much I >functionality which cannot be achieved in any other way that it is worth 
 >a few hoops.   E Besides, considering how incredibly much a cluster license costs, you 1 almost feel obligated to use it if you have it...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:58:24 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: cluster over DSL , Message-ID: <42AF28CA.32DE4904@teksavvy.com>  
 "Doc." wrote: L > Is that really still the case now?  As I understood it licensing was being3 > simplified a great deal with the release of 8.2 -     H I had heard that the simplified licensing only applied to VMS running onF that IA64 thing, not the real VMS on Alpha or VAX. (obviously since HP' renegged on its promise of 8.2 on VAX).   H If it applies only to IA64, then the simplified licensing is meaningless+ for the vast majority of the customer base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:31:28 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: cluster over DSL 0 Message-ID: <11avbm3kiref65f@corp.supernews.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > In article <11akvav6l36ilbe@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble  > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >  > H >>I'm wondering whether anyone other than me sometimes gets the feeling F >>that some are so 'fixated' on clustering, that they do so even when G >>there aren't valid reasons to do so.  One of those types even states  E >>that he's not running DECnet, and DECnet is a very good method for  ? >>connecting VMS systems when shared everything isn't required.  >  > G > It depends on what one is doing.  Yes, DECnet is better than TCPIP in C > many respects, but basic functionality (COPY/FTP, DIR/FTP etc) is E > present in TCPIP.  One has to jump through hoops to run DECnet in a H > TCPIP world (find a way to route it, run DECnet over IP which requires? > either Phase V or a non-HP stack) for a few more advantages.    I If I'm running multiple systems in the same location, building, or such,  G I don't have any problems with routing.  Using DECnet IV I get all the  I connectivity required.  If the systems are for different purposes, there  L is advantage is having some 'distance' between them, with respect to access.  I Someone recently posted a story on posting test data to the live system.  4   Just one example of wanting a bit more 'distance'.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:48:43 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Compare this with the usual VMS 'success' stories4 Message-ID: <42af89f2$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>  L http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/cache/49205-0-0-0-121.aspx?bodycontentparams=1L 27415-0-0-0-121&ERL=true&pageTitle=Featured%20article&jumpid=em_CTjun05_feat ure03     	 Comments?      --L OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.      O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:36:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> > Subject: Re: Compare this with the usual VMS 'success' stories, Message-ID: <42AF93EC.F4BE5D40@teksavvy.com>   > http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/cache/49205-0-0-0-121.aspx?bodycontentparams=127415-0-0-0-121&ERL=true&pageTitle=Featured%20article&jumpid=em_CTjun05_feature03    John Smith wrote:  > Comments?   E It mentions that Tandem quietly process transactions...  Anyone whose E ever stood next to a Cyclone knows it wasn't quiet ! Neither were the  disk arrays.  H What is interesting is that HP doesn't mention that VMS had a large partG of what Tandem doesn't have in 911 systems. That would show that HP has I far mroe expertise , experience and solutions to cater to the 911 needs.    > HP lacks "big picture" of its own enterprise, with each littleA department trying to fight the big wintel marketing for exposure.    ---   6 What *really* happens if you feed a bird a Mentos ????   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 13:33:13 -0400! From: adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) + Subject: Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s + Message-ID: <d8n4cp$fkr$1@panix5.panix.com>   8 In article <o6hra11qrkddjibqh70cs1femced5ni5oh@4ax.com>,' David Long  <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote: E >On 23 Nov 2004 19:10:34 -0800, leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) wrote:  > C >Going through old archives and just subbed to this group and found  >this message from last year...  > 7 >>Anyone remember the DEC retail stores? A few of these 9 >>stores appeared about the time that the "Super Trio" of 5 >>systems all appeared in the same form-factor boxes:  > @ >Way back when, my first job at DEC was writing software for the >machines sold in those stores.  > > >I doubt anyone out there remembers the Retail Products Group. > D >I worked on several projects including the Dental Office ManagementD >System, the Construction system, one of the accounting systems thatG >was purchased from MCBA and a demo program and editor that allowed you G >to write scripts that, among other things, 'faked' animation on a WT78 / >or DECmate for use in the 'storefront window'.  > ( >I still have a button from a tradeshow: > ( >"DECmate:  The Ultimate Office Partner" >     D DECmate was great word procesing back in the day and always got good@ reviews. The software could have been the "killer app" if it was; ported to the PC that DEC never made and sold as a package.      --    a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m   ! Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 12:26:45 -05004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)+ Subject: Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s 3 Message-ID: <xB1NGNW3w30Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <o6hra11qrkddjibqh70cs1femced5ni5oh@4ax.com>, David Long <nospam@hotmail.com> writes:F > On 23 Nov 2004 19:10:34 -0800, leeroth@my-deja.com (Lee Roth) wrote: > D > Going through old archives and just subbed to this group and found  > this message from last year... > 7 >>Anyone remember the DEC retail stores? A few of these 9 >>stores appeared about the time that the "Super Trio" of 5 >>systems all appeared in the same form-factor boxes:  > A > Way back when, my first job at DEC was writing software for the   > machines sold in those stores. > ? > I doubt anyone out there remembers the Retail Products Group.   E I remember visiting one of those stores on Golf Rd in Schaumburg, IL.   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  G         Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea of $         liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:49:53 -0400 % From: David Long <nospam@hotmail.com> + Subject: Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s 8 Message-ID: <4vf0b1p0f7r8r3j8svdctb3ilov94ajelu@4ax.com>  A On 14 Jun 2005 13:33:13 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:   9 >In article <o6hra11qrkddjibqh70cs1femced5ni5oh@4ax.com>, ( >David Long  <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:) >>I still have a button from a tradeshow:  >>) >>"DECmate:  The Ultimate Office Partner"  >> >  > E >DECmate was great word procesing back in the day and always got good A >reviews. The software could have been the "killer app" if it was < >ported to the PC that DEC never made and sold as a package.  ? Yeah - it had a pretty good form of WYSIWYG long before others.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:50:11 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> + Subject: Re: DEC retail stores in the 1980s 8 Message-ID: <aji2b1p6ldqma7grs03h6q2rs019869s9f@4ax.com>  A On 14 Jun 2005 13:33:13 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:   E >DECmate was great word procesing back in the day and always got good A >reviews. The software could have been the "killer app" if it was < >ported to the PC that DEC never made and sold as a package.  O It was ported to the PC as WPS-PLUS. DECmate originated from the old WPS-8 word 
 processor.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:24:45 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: Determine who created a detached process + Message-ID: <42AF835C.F0AEE0CD@comcast.net>    sinobato@gmail.com wrote:  > 	 > Hi all,  > G > I am currently tasked to investigate an issue with one of our systems I > wherein we are seeing a number of "ghost" processes, meaning, processes B > that should no longer be on the system as its parent process has  > supposedly terminated already. > D > I need to understand the problem here and I was hoping to know whoH > creates these detached processes. Is there a way, without me having toF > do some low level programming, ie. DCL utilities, or freeware tools,H > that can help me determine who created a process? I was thinking of anF > audit kind of process wherein whenever a process is created, it logsF > the data on who created it, so that I can analyze the data later on.  $ Other have provided some good ideas.   You might also consider this:   - $ write sys$output f$getjpi( pid, "creator" )   A ...where "pid" is the Process Id. of the detached process you are F investigating. This will give the PID of the process which created theF detached process. You can then SHOW PROCESS/ID=nnnnnnnn to see if thatF process still exists, or use the ACCOUNTNG utility to see what info is4 available about the creator of the detached process.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:37:05 +0000 (UTC) * From: bleau@UMTOF.UMD.EDU (Lawrence Bleau)> Subject: Fortran90 READ failure using ADVANCE='NO', any ideas?0 Message-ID: <d8sdc1$ev8$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  K I'm trying to find the number of characters in an input record using strict H Fortran90.  That means I cannot use the Q format.  I noticed the ADVANCEJ keyword and the SIZE keyword on READ statements, and thought this would beK the solution.  It compiles okay when I use those two keywords together, but 8 I get a runtime error without any corresponding English.  J Does anyone know what this error means?  Or even if this is the corret wayI to go about accomplishing this task?  Thanks, all.  Source code and error  messages follow.   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof2.umd.edu   UMSTEP$ sho sym for90 C   FOR90 == "FORTRAN/NOOPTIMIZE/WARNING=NOALIGN/STANDARD=F90/EXTEND"  UMSTEP$ for90 test4  UMSTEP$ link  test4  UMSTEP$ def for001 test4.for UMSTEP$ run   test4 % %FOR-F-NOMSG, Message number 00188864 / %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows J   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PCO                                             0 FFFFFFFF804400F0 FFFFFFFF804400F0 O  DEC$FORRTL                                 0 00000000000479A0 00000000000999A0 O  DEC$FORRTL                                 0 0000000000069DD0 00000000000BBDD0 O  DEC$FORRTL                                 0 00000000000677C4 00000000000B97C4 O  TEST4  TEST4$MAIN  TEST4$MAIN              3 0000000000000100 0000000000030100 O                                             0 FFFFFFFF86AF9118 FFFFFFFF86AF9118  UMSTEP$ fort/vers  Compaq Fortran V7.2-780-4293Q    UMSTEP$ type test4.for         character*132 line+         open(1,file='for001',action='read') >         read(1,101,size=nch,advance='no',end=900,err=900) line         nch = 202 c        read(1,101,size=nch,end=900,err=900) line(         read(1,101,end=900,err=900) line 101     format(a) '         print *,'this line length:',nch          print *,line(1:nch)  900     stop         end    Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edu    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:55:54 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>B Subject: Re: Fortran90 READ failure using ADVANCE='NO', any ideas?+ Message-ID: <d8sshb$iuc$1@news01.intel.com>    Lawrence Bleau wrote: M > I'm trying to find the number of characters in an input record using strict J > Fortran90.  That means I cannot use the Q format.  I noticed the ADVANCEL > keyword and the SIZE keyword on READ statements, and thought this would beM > the solution.  It compiles okay when I use those two keywords together, but : > I get a runtime error without any corresponding English. > 0 > Does anyone know what this error means?  [...]  6 	Under a more recent version, I get the following when compiling your example:   > -------------------------------------------------------------- RA2SA3::Khfairfi> fort/vers  HP Fortran V7.6-3276-48D52  RA2SA3::Khfairfi> run bleau_testE %FOR-F-ENDRECDUR, end of record during read    <<<<------------------ /    unit 1  file PTD$USRK:[KHFAIRFI]LOGIN.COM;59     user PC 00000000 / %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows K    image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PC @                                              0 FFFFFFFF81088954  FFFFFFFF81088954@   DEC$FORRTL                                 0 000000000002B734  000000007C623734@   DEC$FORRTL                                 0 000000000004E494  000000007C646494@   DEC$FORRTL                                 0 000000000004C020  000000007C644020.   BLEAU_TEST  BLEAU_TEST$MAIN  BLEAU_TEST$MAIN@                                              4 00000000000000E8  00000000000300E8@                                              0 FFFFFFFF8029363C  FFFFFFFF8029363C RA2SA3::Khfairfi> ? ---------------------------------------------------------------   2 You're missing an end-of-record check in the READ.   > UMSTEP$ type test4.for >         character*132 line- >         open(1,file='for001',action='read') @ >         read(1,101,size=nch,advance='no',end=900,err=900) line >         nch = 204 > c        read(1,101,size=nch,end=900,err=900) line* >         read(1,101,end=900,err=900) line > 101     format(a) ) >         print *,'this line length:',nch  >         print *,line(1:nch)  > 900     stop
 >         end   C The following code compiles cleanly and does what I think you want:   * ==========================================$ RA2SA3::Khfairfi> typ bleau_test.for          character*132 line           integer       nch /1/,          open(1,file='for001',action='read')G          read(1,101,size=nch,advance='no',end=900,err=900,EOR=800) line 2 !        read(1,101,size=nch,end=900,err=900) line) !        read(1,101,end=900,err=900) line  101     format(a) ' 800     print *,'this line length:',nch           print *,line(1:nch) 900     stop          end% RA2SA3::Khfairfi> fort bleau_test.for ! RA2SA3::Khfairfi> link bleau_test . RA2SA3::Khfairfi> define/user for001 login.com  RA2SA3::Khfairfi> run bleau_test this line length:          68 D $!-----------------------------------------------------------------! RA2SA3::Khfairfi> * ==========================================  C Note the "EOR=800" in the READ, plus I added label 800 on the print B statement.  (I also added an initialization statement for nch justG to suppress the "used before defined" warning...but it's not required.)   D What may not be obvious is _why_ one would want to use ADVANCE='NO'.B The primary reason is so that you can incrementally read _part_ of> a record at a time into a shorter character variable, e.g., toD read a record one character at a time.  A small modification to your program will demonstrate:   * ==========================================& RA2SA3::Khfairfi> typ BLEAU_TEST.FOR;2          character*15 line          integer       nch /1/,          open(1,file='for001',action='read')          do H           read(1,101,size=nch,advance='no',end=900,err=900,eor=800) line,           print *,'this segment length:',nch           print *,line          enddo* 800     print *,'this segment length:',nch          print *,line(1:nch) 900     stop 101     format(a)           end% RA2SA3::Khfairfi> fort bleau_test.for ! RA2SA3::Khfairfi> link bleau_test . RA2SA3::Khfairfi> define/user for001 login.com  RA2SA3::Khfairfi> run bleau_test  this segment length:          15 $!-------------   this segment length:          15 ---------------   this segment length:          15 ---------------   this segment length:          15 ---------------   this segment length:           8 -------! RA2SA3::Khfairfi> * ==========================================  B Note that the variable "line" is now only 15 characters long, that? there is a F90-style uncounted do-loop, and that the READ loops @ taking 15 characters at a time until the end-of-record condition= is reached, at which point the do-loop is exited via eor=800.   C (This whole discussion might better be posted to comp.lang.fortran,    but what the heck... :-)  	      -Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 01:39:54 -0700' From: "Sky" <george@skygod.demon.co.uk> 9 Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS won't install on DEC Multia A Message-ID: <1118824794.072985.3890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Didier,   C I have already read the FAQ in respect of the Multia issues, and it  states :  @ "Yes, there are a set of unsupported images that permit specific OpenVMS B Alpha versions to bootstrap on the Multia UDB system. These imagesE and the associated instructions are available at the OpenVMS Freeware 	 website:"   B I am now trying to determine how to get a CD of the VMS version to2 match the bootfloppy images which are 7.1 & 7.2-1?   George   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:24:37 -0400 ? From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> 9 Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS won't install on DEC Multia 0 Message-ID: <11b07e7rbll61c7@corp.supernews.com>  E We have loads of NEW original packages of VMS7.2-1 - yours if you pay $ shipping (probably about $5 for USA)   DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   2 "Sky" <george@skygod.demon.co.uk> wrote in message; news:1118824794.072985.3890@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... 	 > Didier,  > E > I have already read the FAQ in respect of the Multia issues, and it 
 > states : > B > "Yes, there are a set of unsupported images that permit specific	 > OpenVMS D > Alpha versions to bootstrap on the Multia UDB system. These imagesG > and the associated instructions are available at the OpenVMS Freeware  > website:"  > D > I am now trying to determine how to get a CD of the VMS version to4 > match the bootfloppy images which are 7.1 & 7.2-1? >  > George >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:53:47 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 9 Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS won't install on DEC Multia 7 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050615055320c35cf1@mail.gmail.com>   8 On 15 Jun 2005 01:00:58 -0700, george@skygod.demon.co.uk" <george@skygod.demon.co.uk> wrote:E > I have been searching for information on how to get this installed. D > I've bought the Hobbyist media, but it's Alpha v7.3-1 and the only@ > bootstrap floppy images that I can find are for v7.2-1 so I amG > wondering if it's possible to get the 7.2-1 CD or a  bootstrap floppy B > for 7.3-1? I've tried booting with the 7.2-1 bootstrap using the= > command "boot dka100,dva0 -if 0,80000" but after the second H > confirmation of mounted secondary media prompt the install crashes and > returns me to the >>> prompt.  >=20D > My Multia has an internal 20Gb laptop IDE drive connected using anF > Amiga 44 pin cable; an externally connected XM5701B SCSI CD-ROM  andF > 128Mb of RAM and runs NT4.0 server with no problem, but as I startedG > out my System Admin days with VMS back in 1990 on a VAX 6510, I still ' > hanker for tinkering with the VMS OS.  >=20G > Can anyone assist or at least point me in the right direction please?  >=20 > George >=20 >=20  1 Installing VMS on a Multia is tricky at best. =20   C This is from memory, as I sold mine to Tim Sneddon a few years ago.   D There are only two versions of VMS that will run on a Multia, and ifC memory serves me right, 7.3-1 isn't one of them.  I'm not sure that 1 IDE is supported, either, as I ran external SCSI.   ) Either way, you're going to have fun. =20   B I also highly recommend the fan upgrade, as it'll keep your Multia from slowly toasting itself.  D These are the links I have on file, not all of them may be live, but( then there's always the Wayback Machine.  0 http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/computers/udb.html. http://www.djesys.com/vms/hobbyist/multia.html% http://www.wei.com/multia/qshome.html @ http://www.starshipcorp.com/starshipcomputers/multia/multia.html0 http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/alpha/multiafaq.html   WWWebb --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:04:19 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>9 Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS won't install on DEC Multia + Message-ID: <42B0D013.BC1A07A4@comcast.net>   / "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:  > G > We have loads of NEW original packages of VMS7.2-1 - yours if you pay & > shipping (probably about $5 for USA)  H Then, if you can find it, you should be able to apply the V7.2-2 update,E but that's where you stay. Not bad to play with, but no V7.3 features D and PIPE in V7.2[-x] is kinda broken, but does work in a limited way compared to V7.3-2 and later.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:42:18 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com/ Subject: HP Loses Storage Software Market Share Q Message-ID: <OFA09695C4.86BC6023-ON85257021.0060648C-85257021.00615FA5@metso.com>   #                       Top 5 Vendors 6 Worldwide Storage Software Revenue, First Quarter 2005*                 (Revenues are in millions)< Vendor    Q1 2005    Market     Q1 2004    Market    Revenue;           revenue     share     revenue     share    growth   < EMC          $625     30.0%        $530     29.3%      17.9%  < Veritas      $445     21.4%        $399     22.1%      11.4%  < IBM          $178      8.6%        $170      9.4%       4.8%   Network < Appliance    $139      6.7%         $87      4.8%      61.1%   Hewlett-< Packard      $137      6.6%        $126      7.0%       8.1%  < Others       $556     26.7%        $499     27.5%      11.5%   All < vendors     $2,080     100%      $1,811      100%      14.9%   [Source: IDC, June 2005]   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:30:02 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr>  Subject: HP World 4 Message-ID: <42afe70b$0$31269$626a14ce@news.free.fr>  	 Worth it?  Who will attend? Why?   I EXCELled the program  @ http://register.hpworld2005.com/hpw05/sessions/publicCatalog.jsp$ and found 14 VMS sessions among 283.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:52:19 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> Subject: Re: HP World A Message-ID: <42affa54$0$1129$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:  > Worth it?  > Who will attend? > Why? >  > I EXCELled the program  B > http://register.hpworld2005.com/hpw05/sessions/publicCatalog.jsp& > and found 14 VMS sessions among 283. >  > D.  B If you select the Track "OpenVMS" and click "Go", you will see 13 = sessions. The 14th session is hidden under the Track "System  I Administrator Skills/User Support/IT Efficiency". The Session ID is 5181  I titled "OpenVMS System Administration for Non-OpenVMS Administrator" and  = presented by Stephen De Dalto from Digitask Consultants, Inc.    Cheers!    K.C.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 08:33:17 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: HP World 3 Message-ID: <IVcaI$mBIRth@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <42afe70b$0$31269$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes: > Worth it?  > Who will attend? > Why? >  > I EXCELled the program  B > http://register.hpworld2005.com/hpw05/sessions/publicCatalog.jsp& > and found 14 VMS sessions among 283.  G And I know you aren't allowed to tell us :-), but how many VMS sessions % did you find at the recent bootcamp ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:22:22 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr>  Subject: Re: HP World 3 Message-ID: <42b08e00$0$5642$626a14ce@news.free.fr>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:  I > And I know you aren't allowed to tell us :-), but how many VMS sessions ' > did you find at the recent bootcamp ?   E I do not know whether your presence was NDA or not but you were here  	 Larry :-)    And the answer is 127.   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 17:00:58 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: HP World 3 Message-ID: <sfXGtkyieC4r@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <42b08e00$0$5642$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > J >> And I know you aren't allowed to tell us :-), but how many VMS sessions( >> did you find at the recent bootcamp ? > G > I do not know whether your presence was NDA or not but you were here   > Larry :-)   = I have been told that the numbers are different in French :-)    > And the answer is 127.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:05:27 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: HP World * Message-ID: <42B0D057.9840E77@comcast.net>   Didier Morandi wrote:  >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > K > > And I know you aren't allowed to tell us :-), but how many VMS sessions ) > > did you find at the recent bootcamp ?  > F > I do not know whether your presence was NDA or not but you were here > Larry :-)  >  > And the answer is 127.  * So, they're still using byte integers? ;-)   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 12:19:49 -05004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: Re: HP World 3 Message-ID: <hIxPKqbRqs4i@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <IVcaI$mBIRth@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: f > In article <42afe70b$0$31269$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes: >> Worth it? >> Who will attend?  >> Why?  >>   >> I EXCELled the program C >> http://register.hpworld2005.com/hpw05/sessions/publicCatalog.jsp ' >> and found 14 VMS sessions among 283.  > I > And I know you aren't allowed to tell us :-), but how many VMS sessions ' > did you find at the recent bootcamp ?    All of them. ;^)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:15:50 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom>< Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm& Message-ID: <42b00de5$1@news1.ethz.ch>   Rob Young wrote:M > Intel's Itanium revenue grew more than 300% from 2003 to 2004, and is being P > used in server systems in 40 of the top 100 global companies, according to theP > company. There also have been more than 2,800 third-party applications written > to run on Itanium.  I AMD announced quad-core for 2007, and for the first quarter of 2005 they  ( claim 27.8% of the 4-way servers market.9 http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1826595,00.asp % (plus some news about their new fabs)   < The Inquirer is as usual quite bitter on the Itanium side...) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23748    S    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 17:48:28 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm3 Message-ID: <UUiXy5LbkU6G@eisner.encompasserve.org>   G in article <42b00de5$1@news1.ethz.ch>, S <soterroatyahoodotcom> writes:  > Rob Young wrote:N >> Intel's Itanium revenue grew more than 300% from 2003 to 2004, and is beingQ >> used in server systems in 40 of the top 100 global companies, according to the Q >> company. There also have been more than 2,800 third-party applications written  >> to run on Itanium.  > K > AMD announced quad-core for 2007, and for the first quarter of 2005 they  * > claim 27.8% of the 4-way servers market.; > http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1826595,00.asp ' > (plus some news about their new fabs)  >   : 	Of course.  As tecate points out, the inq is going beyond 	fanboy status:   k http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&PostNum=3433&Thread=310&entryID=52367&roomID=11   ( Name: tecate (tecate@devill.com) 6/15/05  O Well we have been over this many times, we all know that the Inquirer is an arm I of the AMD PR machine ;)(that in itself makes you wonder :) an article in O today's inqie is an example of AMD PR at work... the inquie has a piece(hmm bad K word choice maybe) on HP and turion, (sort of like pretend reporting if you L understand my meaning) how many pieces have been written about Intel, HP andL their mobile offerings in a positive light by the inquie? None I'll bet (butN hey I don't read the inq. all that much, why read Inquier AMD PR - I can go toL http://www.amd.com and read their PR there unedited by the personal slant ofK the writer at the inquie) another article (PR piece)at the inquie about AMD O their new (possible) fab ... if it were Intel we know a new fab would get a few N jabs from the old inquie about why this would be a bad idea as AMD is going toK kill Intel etc. Best to ignore the inquirer. read Silicon Strategies, CNET, K x86-secrets for fun, EE times, PC stats, channel times, businesweek online, I xbit labs, put all these pubs together and you can a fair idea of what is M happening with gossip thrown in without the Inquirer brand of smarmy, unctous  journalistm :)  > > The Inquirer is as usual quite bitter on the Itanium side...+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23748   @ 	No doubt.  But this isn't surprising.  The pro-AMD , anti-IntelC 	bias is a direct result of agenda driven reporting.  Try a simple  " 	Google search for examples of it:   		journalism agenda driven  6 	Here is the first link that matches the above search:  > http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=10844   	Enjoy!    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 03:01:00 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm= Message-ID: <mv2dnal3ztwyvizfRVn-gQ@metrocastcablevision.com>    Rob Young wrote:   ...   0    As tecate points out, the inq is going beyond > 	fanboy status:   G Then again, since tecate is a confirmed Intel bigot (her husband works  G there), what she 'points out' is often a rather twisted version of the   truth.   ...       The pro-AMD , anti-Intel E > 	bias is a direct result of agenda driven reporting.  Try a simple  $ > 	Google search for examples of it: >  > 		journalism agenda driven > 8 > 	Here is the first link that matches the above search: > @ > http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=10844  G Wrong as usual, Rob.  Probably comes at least in part from your choice  8 of right-wing-whacko reading material such as the above.  G I mean, hasn't 'liberal media' become too blatant an oxymoron for even  C people like you to try to pawn off any more?  Come to think of it,  D considering the whoppers your idols in the administration are still A vomiting up on a regular basis about our audacious experiment in  ! annexation in Iraq, probably not.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:20:30 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm8 Message-ID: <ialse.63485$PR6.12345@tornado.texas.rr.com>  . JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com) wrote: : I : So how come nobody is stepping forwards and calling for the current USA G : regime to be impeached, ousted and tried for war crimes ? That is the 5 : only honourable way out for the USA at the moment.   :   F Paul Craig Roberts, a former assistant Secretary of the Treasury under% Reagan, has called for impeachment...   5    http://www.vdare.com/roberts/050516_reputation.htm I    VDARE.com: 05/16/05 - British War Memo Evidence Enough To Impeach Bush      "May 16, 2005   3    British War Memo Evidence Enough To Impeach Bush     By Paul Craig Roberts  B    George W. Bush and his gang of neocon warmongers have destroyed    America's reputation.  H    It is likely to stay destroyed, because at this point the only way toI    restore America's reputation would be to impeach and convict President G    Bush for intentionally deceiving Congress and the American people in E    order to start a war of aggression against a country that posed no C    threat to the US. America can redeem itself only by holding Bush     accountable.   G    As intent as Republicans were to impeach President Clinton for lying H    about a sexual affair, they have a blind eye for President Bush's far    more serious lies.   E    Bush's lies have caused the deaths of tens of thousands of people, C    injured and maimed tens of thousands more, devastated a country, E    destroyed America's reputation, caused one billion Muslims to hate G    America, ruined our alliances with Europe, created a police state at :    home, and squandered $300 billion dollars and counting.  	    [snip]   /    This memo is the mother of all smoking guns.       Why isn't Bush in the dock?  )    Has American democracy failed at home?   F    Paul Craig Roberts, a former Reagan Administration official, is theG    author of The Supply-Side Revolution and, with Lawrence M. Stratton, F    of The Tyranny of Good Intentions : How Prosecutors and BureaucratsH    Are Trampling the Constitution in the Name of Justice. Click here forD    Peter Brimelow's Forbes Magazine interview with Roberts about the0    recent epidemic of prosecutorial misconduct."  = He also writes about the economy and the decline of the U.S.:   0    http://www.vdare.com/roberts/050603_labor.htmD    VDARE.com: 06/03/05 - US Labor Force: One Foot in the Third World  I   "...Offshore outsourcing is dismantling the ladders of America's fabled H    upward mobility. The US labor force already has one foot in the third5    world. By 2024 the US will be a has-been country."      --Jerry Leslie9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 15:20:33 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarmC Message-ID: <1118960433.608528.208960@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   0 anybody who thinks that leaving Hussein in power/ would be a good thing doesn't have a clue about  anything ...   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2005 09:57:10 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarmC Message-ID: <1119027430.210054.325480@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   C wrong again Bill ... Iraq was the main artery for Iran and Syria to ? support terrorists ... now we have not only cut off that supply = line but also by establishing a democratic form of government 8 have changed Lebanon and now is putting pressure on IranA internally ... we are fighting a war with Iran using democracy as 6 a weapon ... you again are missing the big picture ...   ------------------------------   Date: 17 JUN 2005 11:52:05 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)< Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm6 Message-ID: <17JUN05.11520537@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  E In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   I ->So how come nobody is stepping forwards and calling for the current USA G ->regime to be impeached, ousted and tried for war crimes ? That is the 5 ->only honourable way out for the USA at the moment.    G They are - lots of them - you just don't hear about it in the US media. C Seven states have resolutions that call for impeachment proceedings 6 against 3 of the criminals: Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.  J <http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/local/index.php?ntid=43364&nt_adsect=edit>  B Yesterday, a letter with signatures of 122 members of congress andH 560,000  citizens was delivered to the white house asking for answers onB the downing street memo. You'd be hard pressed to find that in any US media outlet. Here's one:  ; <http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/politics/17downing.html>   6 Yeah, it's really off-topic but it's really important.   --> -- Carl Karcher,         karcher.nomoresp3m@waisman.wisc.edu   --   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 17:53:57 -0700) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> * Subject: Is the site www.openvms.org down?C Message-ID: <1118969637.811124.147200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   ! Is the site www.openvms.org down?   C I haven't been able to get to it tonight (June 16th @ 8:00 PM EDT).    Ken    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:51:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: Is the site www.openvms.org down?, Message-ID: <42B22CA8.A04FFEE4@teksavvy.com>   Ken Robinson wrote:  > # > Is the site www.openvms.org down?  > E > I haven't been able to get to it tonight (June 16th @ 8:00 PM EDT).   - Looks like a routing problem in charlotte NC.   H 14 pop1-cha-p0-0.atdn.net.                  (66.185.138.65  ):    57ms       55ms       55ms   H 15 rr-charlotte.atdn.net.138.185.66.in-addr (66.185.138.70  ):    55ms       56ms       56ms   H 16 pos5-0.gnboncsg-rtr4.triad.rr.com.       (24.93.64.42    ):    58ms       58ms       57ms   H 17 srp8-0.gnboncsg-rtr1.triad.rr.com.       (24.28.226.193  ):    58ms!H     *         59ms!H Trace completed    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:25:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: Is the site www.openvms.org down?, Message-ID: <42B24274.48D2EA71@teksavvy.com>   Ken Robinson wrote:  > # > Is the site www.openvms.org down?  > E > I haven't been able to get to it tonight (June 16th @ 8:00 PM EDT).   " It is reacheable again (23:25 EDT)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:43:48 -0400 4 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca>9 Subject: Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!) + Message-ID: <3h8mr7Ffsqp3U1@individual.net>    Wayne Sewell wrote:  >...G > With TCPWARE, you have to get a new license key, since the address of - > the network adapter is embedded in the key.  > ...   G What version of TCPWare did that? In the past 8 years I have never seen B a TCPWare license tied to any hardware and I have seen quite a few TCPWare licenses.    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:46:17 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>9 Subject: Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!) 3 Message-ID: <wCFre.2336$g4.32600@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   : "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> wrote in message1 news:8660a3a105060910536a43d9a8@mail.gmail.com... 4 On 6/9/05, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote:@ > >From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.504279.killspam.00c3 (Wayne Sewell)< > >Subject: Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!)  > >Date: 9 Jun 2005 11:06:27 CDT1 > >Message-ID: <JxCk4UYieSS9@tachxxsoftxxconsult> - > >From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>  > >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms< > >Subject: Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!) >  > >>B > >> Another area to examine would be batch queues. If the currentL > >> environment is a heavy batch environment, then the moving of these jobsF > >> to the new environment needs to be planned as batch jobs keep theI > >> physical characteristics of where they were originally submitted to.  > > J > >I don't understand. Batch jobs will just start on the queues. Of course you D > >have to be careful about SYSGEN parameters on the new machine but	 basically J > >all should work, you only have to tune later. It's more of a problem if you I > >plan to move to a significantly smaller machine but other than that...  > >  > L > Here's an example.  This job is currently in a batch queue on my system, a, > nightly tapesys backup of important files. > * > Batch queue TAPE$HARDY, idle, on HARDY::1 >  /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /JOB_LIMIT=1 /OWNER=[TAPESYS]  /PROTECTION=(S:RSMD,O:RSMD,G,W)  > 5 >  Entry  Jobname         Username             Status 5 >  -----  -------         --------             ------  >    964  SYSBAK_HOTSTUFF_1 H >                         TAPESYS              Holding until  9-JUN-2005 20:30:00.00 1 >         Submitted  9-JUN-2005 00:05:07.30 /KEEP K /LOG=LAUREL$DKB100:[TAPESYS_PRODUCTION.][SYSBAK.LOGS]SYSBAK_HOTSTUFF_1.LOG; 8 >         /PARAM=("HOTSTUFF","1") /NOPRINT /PRIORITY=100H >         File: _LAUREL$DKB100:[TAPESYS_PRODUCTION.SYSTEM]SYSBAK.BIS;776 >  > K > Note that the file name contains a physical device name, despite the fact  that? > it was submitted using a logical name.  This is the "physical  characteristics @ > of where they were originally submitted to" mentioned earlier. > F > So *if* you place the disk cloned from _LAUREL$DKB100: into the same relativeH > slot on the same relative scsi controller on the new system, then this batch K > job will work.  If the disk has a different scsi ID on the new system, or  isH > not on the second scsi controller, the name will be different, such asJ > _LAUREL$DKC400:, and the job will fail because it can't find the command  > procedure on _LAUREL$DKB100: . > L ============================================================================ === : > Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738 wayne@tachysoft.com : > http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html > L ============================================================================ === K > Jake Blues:"You traded the Caddy for a microphone? ...... Okay, I can buy  that." > I >> Your point is well taken-- just about the only time I believe in using D >> physical device names is in SYLOGICALS.COM, although there may beG >> application-specific exceptions to the general rule, but if and only ) >> if a logical absolutely can't be used.  >>	 >> WWWebb  >>   I take good note of that too. D I'm currently doing a revision of our disaster recovery plan and had overlooked this fact. L The plan was actually tested and all the applications were fine, but I neverD started the jobs already waiting in the queues. Will test next time.   Thanks Syltrem    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 07:07:51 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)9 Subject: Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!) , Message-ID: <42afd3c7$1@news.langstoeger.at>  b In article <3h8mr7Ffsqp3U1@individual.net>, "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca> writes: >Wayne Sewell wrote:H >> With TCPWARE, you have to get a new license key, since the address of. >> the network adapter is embedded in the key. > H >What version of TCPWare did that? In the past 8 years I have never seenC >a TCPWare license tied to any hardware and I have seen quite a few  >TCPWare licenses.  I Probably the licenses before LMF was used (I use TCPware since 1988 or 89 H but I can't remember now how this was done. I believe to remember that I9 had to send them CPU, XCPU and the Mac.Add at this times) K OTOH, I had a Hardware I.D. on one of my last TCPware (Alpha) license PAKs.   # No HWID on my hobbyist PAKs though.    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 22:50:05 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>9 Subject: Re: Migration checklist (no, not away from VMS!) B Message-ID: <1118814604.955399.23230@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:d > In article <3h8mr7Ffsqp3U1@individual.net>, "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca> writes: > >Wayne Sewell wrote:J > >> With TCPWARE, you have to get a new license key, since the address of0 > >> the network adapter is embedded in the key.    B Wow, a post from the future! Google Groups shows this as posted at@ 02:08 EDT, but it's only 01:47 EDT as I write this! I guess they( screwed up their time zone calculations!  G While there have been some improvements in the Beta Google Groups, they F still manage to screw things up by being overly ambitious, at least in this case.    	 Oh well.     Back to the present for me!    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:03:58 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com># Subject: Re: minimize VMS footprint + Message-ID: <d8nr9k$1qn$1@news01.intel.com>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:\ > In article <d8d4o2$ud3$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> writes: > H >>>You must not forget that *.c can be a part of vmsinstalable images... >>C >>Eberhard, what are you talking about here???  While VMS certainly D >>allows one to rename MY_GREAT_PROGRAM.EXE to DONT_LOOK_IN_THERE.C,E >>I've never heard of doing an INSTALL of a C-language source file...  >  > H > He is talking about a kit for installation by SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL.COMF > which usually consists of kitname.A, kitname.B, kitname.C, and so on > 1 > No C-language source file, only a file named .C  > > > You did know it and I hope you're not too frustrated now ;-)  I     Thanks.  Not really frustrated, I just failed to parse "vmsinstalable G images" correctly. :-(  I think the word "image" sent me down the wrong  path.  Sigh...  H      For that matter, I don't really know how *I* would have phrased it.F "VMSINSTAL savesets named xxx.C"?  "The "C" part of an VMSINSTAL kit"?A It's not easy (anyway for me) to put it clearly and succinctly...      	Regards, Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 06:44:02 -0700 From: jtpryan@gmail.com 4 Subject: Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PCC Message-ID: <1118756642.585029.197270@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F I don't know how the license works on this, but is there anyway to get the converter I need?    Jim    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 17:41:22 -0700 From: jtpryan@gmail.com 4 Subject: Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PCC Message-ID: <1118796082.658271.327030@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   ' No, I'll try searching around for it...    -Jim   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:33:42 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> ; Subject: Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product ( Message-ID: <ycHre.573$mD6.452@fe07.lga>   joerojas@gmail.com wrote: 4 > I am fairly new to OpenVMS so please bare with me.  @ I'd rather keep my clothes on, but thanks for the offer, anyway.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:47:17 -0400 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>; Subject: Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product 3 Message-ID: <XnHre.2350$g4.32724@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   % <joerojas@gmail.com> wrote in message = news:1118780683.076450.254400@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... 	 > Hi All,  > 4 > I am fairly new to OpenVMS so please bare with me.G > My company currently is using OpenVMS 6.2 on a DEC MicroVAX 3100-085. @ > My research has lead me to believe that we have a NAS license. > F > I am trying to install the layered product called DEC TCP/IP from myB > OpenVMS Binaries CD. According to the documentation that I have,+ > version 3.3 of this software is on my CD.  > I > I have never installed anything on this server. There was someone in my B > role before me so I wasn't around when they first installed this	 > server.  > E > My reason for wanting to install this product is so I can FTP files I > from my VAX server to a Windows based FTP server on our existing TCP/IP 
 > network. > F > Ultimately I would love to have someone walk me through this process8 > but I understand that this might be a bit much to ask. > F > With all that said, I have a couple of questions that I hope someone > can answer for me. > H > 1) All the readings I have done told me that DEC TCP/IP version 4.3 isG > the highest version that works with OpenVMS 6.2. Can I upgrade 3.3 to = > 4.3 without purchasing anything? Is yes, how can I get 4.3?  > H > 2) How do I install this product from the CD? I don't even know how toI > access the CD drive! What are the commands for installing this product?  >  > Thanks in advacne! > Joe Rojas  > joerojas (at) gmail.com  >   K To get the latest release I think (unsure) that you need a support contract   2 To install, first logon to the SYSTEM account and: a) $ SHOW DEVICE D& to find the name of your CD-ROM deviceG On a small VAX that should be easy enough. It`s probably one that`s not  mounted. b) Insert the CD into the drive " c) $ MOUNT ddcu: yyyy /OVERRIDE=IDJ that is mount your drive (ddcu:) with label yyyy (really anything you likeL since you probably don;t know the disk label, and specify that you just want9 to ignore this label with /override=id (it`s ok for now).  d) $ DIR ddcu:[*]*TCP*G Find your installation directory and files. You will find a file called G something like TCPIP043.A, presumably, in a directory [TCPIP.SOMETHING]  $ @SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTALLB When it asks for the install location, give ddcu:[TCPIP.SOMETHING]; When it asks for the product name to install, give TCPIP043  Answer the remaining prompts. 7 Press <CR> when it asks for the next product to install    You can dismount the CD drive  $ DISMOUNT ddcu:  - Then after, you need to configure the product    HTH    Syltrem    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:00:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ; Subject: Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product , Message-ID: <42AF4543.7D0484FE@teksavvy.com>   "joerojas@gmail.com" wrote: F > I am trying to install the layered product called DEC TCP/IP from myB > OpenVMS Binaries CD. According to the documentation that I have,+ > version 3.3 of this software is on my CD.   F At 3.3, the pricus name would be UCX, and is very old and very bad. ItG is only later that the product was revamp to become palatable. Do don't 0 expect great things. Bt for FTP, it shoudl work.  H Alternatively, you can look for the CMU TCPIP stack, it is available forG download on the VMS freeware websites as well as other places. Compared % to UCX 3.x, it may in fact be better.   H > 1) All the readings I have done told me that DEC TCP/IP version 4.3 isG > the highest version that works with OpenVMS 6.2. Can I upgrade 3.3 to = > 4.3 without purchasing anything? Is yes, how can I get 4.3?   E Technically, you probably can. Legally, if you were not on support at D the time 4.3 came out, you probably aren't meant to install it. (but7 nobody will send the police over, not even in the USA).   H > 2) How do I install this product from the CD? I don't even know how toI > access the CD drive! What are the commands for installing this product?    to find the device name:   $ SHOW DEV D  F Look for a device which is not mounted. Then you can do SHOW DEV xxxxx. /FULL and you'll find it is it a CDROM or not.  # to mount the CD containing the kit:   " $MOUNT/SYSTEM/NOWRITE dev  vol log   for instance: ( $MOUNT/SYSTEM DKA100 VAXBINJAN951 $disk3  H the "log" is a logical name that is created on your behalf which you can( use to refer to the device once mounted.  F you can then do DIR $disk3:[000000] to see which kits are on that CD.   < Once you find the UCX directory (something like UCX033), do:    DIR $DISK3:[ucx033.doc]  C You can then print the release notes and installation instructions, D either in text os porstcript form. The installation instructions are pretty complete.     then:   a DIR $disk3:[uxc033.kit]  G This will show you the names of the actual kit files. Just remember the  name of the file ending with .A     $ Then, you use @SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL   A When prompted for the device, you enter the device and directory   eg: $disk3:[uxc033.kit]   ? When prompted for product name, you enter just the name without * extension of the .A file you found before.  D The rest is done pretty automatically. (and any subsequent tasks you; need to do are descipbed in the installation instructions).   D Beart in miind that UCX is a very old product and most command names have changes since then.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:40:40 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>; Subject: Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product + Message-ID: <42AF8718.DEA3C784@comcast.net>    "joerojas@gmail.com" wrote:  > 	 > Hi All,  > 4 > I am fairly new to OpenVMS so please bare with me.G > My company currently is using OpenVMS 6.2 on a DEC MicroVAX 3100-085. @ > My research has lead me to believe that we have a NAS license. > F > I am trying to install the layered product called DEC TCP/IP from myB > OpenVMS Binaries CD. According to the documentation that I have,+ > version 3.3 of this software is on my CD.  > I > I have never installed anything on this server. There was someone in my B > role before me so I wasn't around when they first installed this	 > server.  > E > My reason for wanting to install this product is so I can FTP files I > from my VAX server to a Windows based FTP server on our existing TCP/IP 
 > network. > F > Ultimately I would love to have someone walk me through this process8 > but I understand that this might be a bit much to ask. > F > With all that said, I have a couple of questions that I hope someone > can answer for me. > H > 1) All the readings I have done told me that DEC TCP/IP version 4.3 isG > the highest version that works with OpenVMS 6.2. Can I upgrade 3.3 to = > 4.3 without purchasing anything? Is yes, how can I get 4.3?  > H > 2) How do I install this product from the CD? I don't even know how toI > access the CD drive! What are the commands for installing this product?   G SHOW LICENSE will indicate which licenses are loaded and active. If you ) see a NAS250 license, you should be good.   D As others have mentioned, you need to determine which disk device isG your CD-ROM. On your machine, if it's mounted in the system box, it may G very well be something similar to DKA500. When DEC provided it from the F factory, they liked to set device id.'s that way. The first fixed diskG is frequently DKA300, then DKA200, DKA100 and possibly DKA0 if you have H all those. The CD-ROM, if present, was frequently DKA500 or maybe DKA4002 if a TK50 drive is also present (probably MKA500).  A All that said, do as another poster suggested. SHOW DEVICE D will D display your disk devices. It might indicate that it's write-locked,A even when not MOUNTed. SHOW DEVICE/FULL ddcu: will display enough E information that you can determine what hat device is. Something that G shows (in the first line of the /FULL display) "RRD42", for example, is ? a CD-ROM drive. Other models might be RRD43, RRD44, and others.   H Oh, yeah, if you're not accustomed to it, you'll need to get used to theG idea of MOUNTing and DISMOUNTing disk volumes. You don't just insert it $ and read it as you might in Windows.  5 To MOUNT a volume when you don't know the label, try:    $ MOUNT/OVER=ID ddcu:   D ...where "ddcu:" is the device name you found for your CD-ROM drive.D This will MOUNT it privately to your process. If you log out, you'll have to MOUNT it again.   , Remember to DISMOUNT before ejecting the CD.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:11:08 +0300 4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com>; Subject: Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product & Message-ID: <42B036FB.486D3E41@hp.com>   joerojas@gmail.com wrote:  > 	 > Hi All,  >   H > 1) All the readings I have done told me that DEC TCP/IP version 4.3 isG > the highest version that works with OpenVMS 6.2. Can I upgrade 3.3 to = > 4.3 without purchasing anything? Is yes, how can I get 4.3?  > H > 2) How do I install this product from the CD? I don't even know how toI > access the CD drive! What are the commands for installing this product?    Two remarks:G The last version for OpenVMS V6.2 was V4.2, to which you sould add ECOs > (Engineering Change Orders - fancy word for patches) These areH cumulative, so if you install ECO 5 you do NOT have to install ECOs 1 to 4.  G The name of the product for all versions prior to V5.x was UCX. In your D case the product kit should consist of (IIRC) four files VAXUCX042.%  with '%' running from 'A' to 'D'   HTH, Mike --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 05:15:46 -0700/ From: "joerojas@gmail.com" <joerojas@gmail.com> ; Subject: Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product C Message-ID: <1118837746.721769.221090@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   C I just wanted to say thank you for all the tremendous help everyone 	 provided!   	 Joe Rojas    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:24:56 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> ; Subject: Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product 3 Message-ID: <42b08e99$0$5642$626a14ce@news.free.fr>    joerojas@gmail.com wrote:   E > I just wanted to say thank you for all the tremendous help everyone  > provided!  >  > Joe Rojas    Welcome to the Club, Pal...    D. --  1 Didier MORANDI - Expert informaticien - VMS / SAP 0   13 chemin du Gu, 1213 Petit-Lancy (GE) Suisse0 Tl. : +33(0)6 7983 6418 ~ www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 07:56:43 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ; Subject: Re: Newbie: Need help installing a layered product 3 Message-ID: <xrdz7dgSw6+L@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <1118780683.076450.254400@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "joerojas@gmail.com" <joerojas@gmail.com> writes:  > H > 1) All the readings I have done told me that DEC TCP/IP version 4.3 isG > the highest version that works with OpenVMS 6.2. Can I upgrade 3.3 to = > 4.3 without purchasing anything? Is yes, how can I get 4.3?   C    If you have a right-to-update license, then you need to buy a CD C    that has 4.3 (which might be hard to find).  If you don't have a F    right-to-update license then you also have to buy a license for 4.3    (whch might be hard to get).   H > 2) How do I install this product from the CD? I don't even know how toI > access the CD drive! What are the commands for installing this product?   G    You find and read the System Manager's manual before you do anything     else.  I    Then you follow the cookbook style instructions that came with the CD.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:58:30 -0700 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>: Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 source listings... When???% Message-ID: <1118937450.887938@smirk>     VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:N > V8.2 has been out for a few months now.  When will the source listings ship?M > Does anybody know?  It used to be that I'd get the listings before I got my  > binaries.   6 Our subscription copy arrived in the same box with the rest of the v8.2 distribution.   Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jun 2005 11:59:57 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) % Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boot Camp report 3 Message-ID: <dC58gT0hb8l4@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <MpAre.7060$2n6.980@news.cpqcorp.net>, Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes:  > JF Mezei wrote: K >> Seriously, what percentage of the contents were truly of NDA nature ? Or H >> the NDA signed mostly beause a few tidbits here and there were NDA in
 >> nature  > H > There was a lot of detail about the future OpenVMS releases 8.2-1 and % > 8.3, as well as other future plans.   3 Yes.  Sue told us we are not to mention the TRS-80.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:14:00 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boot Camp report - Message-ID: <42AF1E67.7FBF87B0@vaxination.ca>    Didier Morandi wrote: G > You got confused Jean-Francois, it is APPLE who announced at the same < > time that OS X did boot on Intel chips since version 1 :-)  E Yeah, but since you're on an NDA, you can't talk about VMS booting on " 8086 until 31-MAY-2006 :-) ;-) :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:15:27 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>= Subject: Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 5/5 :-( 2 Message-ID: <PLAre.7070$sx6.5298@news.cpqcorp.net>   Michael Moroney wrote:   > A > Unfortunately it no longer reads "digitalsoftwa reengineering". K > Some high level Digital muckety-muck discovered what it meant and ordered J > it changed to something inane like "Customers Win When We Deliver" aboutH > 10 years ago.  Unless someone showed up late one night and changed it 	 > back...  >  >    Yes the   
 digitalsoftwa 
 reengineering    was chagned to  
 Customers Win 
 WhenWeDeliver   & with an ascii space in the first line.  G However, since that time a few bars have rusted out and the facilities  B people don't know the difference between 1s and 0s so it now reads  
 Customers Win 
 WhenWeFeliver   E and the ascii space is now some non-printable control character if I   remember correctly.      --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:40:07 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> = Subject: Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 5/5 :-( ( Message-ID: <opssdv05u4zgicya@hyrrokkin>  I On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:15:27 GMT, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote:    > Michael Moroney wrote: > C >>  Unfortunately it no longer reads "digitalsoftwa reengineering". F >> Some high level Digital muckety-muck discovered what it meant and  
 >> orderedK >> it changed to something inane like "Customers Win When We Deliver" about J >> 10 years ago.  Unless someone showed up late one night and changed it  
 >> back... >> > 	 > Yes the  >  > digitalsoftwa  > reengineering  >  > was chagned to >  > Customers Win  > WhenWeDeliver  > ( > with an ascii space in the first line. > J > However, since that time a few bars have rusted out and the facilities  D > people don't know the difference between 1s and 0s so it now reads >  > Customers Win  > WhenWeFeliver  > H > and the ascii space is now some non-printable control character if I   > remember correctly.  >  >  Is it legal to Feliver?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:27:56 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> = Subject: Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 5/5 :-( 4 Message-ID: <42afe68c$0$31269$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   John Reagan wrote:   > Michael Moroney wrote: >  >>B >> Unfortunately it no longer reads "digitalsoftwa reengineering".L >> Some high level Digital muckety-muck discovered what it meant and orderedK >> it changed to something inane like "Customers Win When We Deliver" about I >> 10 years ago.  Unless someone showed up late one night and changed it  
 >> back... >> >> > 	 > Yes the  >  > digitalsoftwa  > reengineering  >  > was chagned to >  > Customers Win  > WhenWeDeliver  > ( > with an ascii space in the first line. > I > However, since that time a few bars have rusted out and the facilities  D > people don't know the difference between 1s and 0s so it now reads >  > Customers Win  > WhenWeFeliver  > G > and the ascii space is now some non-printable control character if I   > remember correctly.  >   1 Ah, this is why, when I read it, my eyes hung :-)    D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:45:56 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>= Subject: Re: OpenVMS BootCamp (anonymous) pixes - Day 5/5 :-( 2 Message-ID: <8qVre.7131$uo7.4830@news.cpqcorp.net>   Tom Linden wrote: K > On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:15:27 GMT, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote:  > ? >> However, since that time a few bars have rusted out and the  H >> facilities  people don't know the difference between 1s and 0s so it  >> now reads >> >> Customers Win >> WhenWeFeliver >>I >> and the ascii space is now some non-printable control character if I    >> remember correctly. >> >> > Is it legal to Feliver?     Not in West Virginia or Alabama.     --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:26:37 +0000 (UTC) 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> 1 Subject: Re: Oracle 10gR1 available for Alpha VMS ? Message-ID: <d8rk4s$5s1$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>    Hi,   ) > encompassing the 10g Enterprise Edition  > including RAC (clustering).   J Ah, it's good to see that at least some Oracle engineers are interested inH exploring the full potential of Clusters. Come to think of it, it's justL good to see someone taking advantage of the Reserved Memory Registry and VLM* (and virtually memory-resident) databases!   Oh here we go. .  .   D 1) "Look into my eyes. Galaxies *are* clusters! Just with very smallJ interconnects. Nothing has changed since the Anchluss. You still have your6 clusters and the Von Trapp family will sing tonight.".  G 2) "I'll have you know that Rdb invented 64-bit addressing and VLM long 0 before it was a twinkle in a VMS engineer's eye!D Windowized-bollocks-32-bit-pointering was an outstanding engineeringJ achievement and we see no reason to change now. We simply dont't care thatH other DBMSs let you allocate almost all available physical memory to theL database. We've decided that approach is just not sensible so we'll continueK to impose our bigotted and artificial limits on you as long as we damn well  like!".   K 3) "If you're too stupid to understand the 'beauty' of Row-Cache (How many? B Of what row size? How much free (unutilized) memory to waste?) andJ Hot-Standby/replication then don't think we're gonna waste money on GlobalL Buffers! In fact, rather than enhance them with the Reserved Memory RegistryL (and Primed/Permanent Global Buffers) we're thinking of desupporting 'em andC letting you struggle through with XFC. How d'ya like those apples?"   2 As I've said before (many times) "What elephant?".   Regards Richard Maher   > PS. Anyone using Cache Fusion on VMS that cares to discuss it?  L PPS. The installed Rdb client base HAS to be growing, right? I'm mean, if itL wasn't then someone might start to ask "What's wrong?" or "What can we do toI improve things?" wouldn't they? Oh, I see, it's not Rdb's fault; it's VMS I holding it back and engineering gave up the fight when RdbNT and RdbTRU64  were canned. Shame.   + <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> wrote in message < news:1118854861.964921.60520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...C > For you Oracle RDBMS (not Rdb) fans out there, Oracle has finally E > released 10gR1 for Alpha VMS.  There are 9 (!) VMS BAckup save sets C > totalling about 4GB (!!!) encompassing the 10g Enterprise Edition I > including RAC (clustering).  Also available is a small DCL command file H > to set logicals for JAVA and ODS-5 options required.  I can't get intoH > Metalink at the moment to check but I believe this release is (or willE > be) qualified for VMS V7.3-2 and V8.2.  This release is Alpha only. C > Oracle 10gR2, due out this fall is slated for both Alpha and IA64 F > platforms.  This is available for license under the Oracle DeveloperE > License, which is similar to the VMS Hobbyist License for VMS.  You D > need an Oracle OTN account (free) to download.  See the OTN site </ > http://www.oracle.com/technology/index.html >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:21:16 -0400 ? From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> = Subject: Refurbished Alpha Systems with VMS Licenses IN STOCK 0 Message-ID: <11b03nchcb30q8c@corp.supernews.com>  K As y'll probably know, we are a large inventory holder of current and last  generation Alpha systems.    Currently in stock we have:   J Alphaserver DS10 466 and 617Mhz systems with NEW VMS base and EIP LicensesK Alphaserver DS10L 466 and 617Mhz systems with NEW VMS base and EIP Licenses   Alphaserver DS20e 667Mhz systems, Alphaserver ES40 500. 667 and 833Mhz Systems! Alphaserver AS1200 533Mhz systems * Alphastation XP1000 500 and 667Mhz systemsJ Alpha Personal Workstation 433, 500 and 600au for VMS with VMS License (if	 required) D Alphaserver GS160 8 CPU 731Mhz EV67 with VMS base and 7 SMP Licenses    J All systems come with certified NEW licenses from HP through our exclusive
 agreement.2 All systems are available for rental for 30 Days >  J A very large stock of NEW and recertified hard disks - Compaq  36GB U3 Hot* Plug Drive for only $170 this month !!!!!!  % Call or email us by the details below        --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:24:10 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> A Subject: Re: Refurbished Alpha Systems with VMS Licenses IN STOCK 3 Message-ID: <42b08e6b$0$5642$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   - David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:   M > As ya'll probably know, we are a large inventory holder of current and last  > generation Alpha systems.   H Do me an offer for a used RX600 with 4 CPUs and no VMS I already got it. :-)   1 (and pls include it in my tomorrow's shipment...)    D.n    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 11:01:12 -0700 From: "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com>L Subject: rsync and/or psync ports to VMS, other directory/disk replication??C Message-ID: <1118858472.776313.160920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D I found a couple of references on web sites to efforts being made toA port rsync and psync from about 2 years ago. Does anyone have any ? knowledge of whether anyone got either of these working on VMS?   < I'm exploring alternatives for backup scenarios and based on> experiences with rsync in a Linux environment it looks like an interesting idea to explore.  C The basic idea is to create an area on a central server with enough F disk storage to replicate the drives from several other servers. rsync; or equivalent software would drive the replication process.   < Do you know of any other packages that might do this kind of5 replication?  Please pass along any links/references.    Thanks,  Robert   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:00:50 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>P Subject: Re: rsync and/or psync ports to VMS, other directory/disk replication??A Message-ID: <42b29f52$0$1134$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>   
 R Boyd wrote: F > I found a couple of references on web sites to efforts being made toC > port rsync and psync from about 2 years ago. Does anyone have any A > knowledge of whether anyone got either of these working on VMS?  > > > I'm exploring alternatives for backup scenarios and based on@ > experiences with rsync in a Linux environment it looks like an > interesting idea to explore. > E > The basic idea is to create an area on a central server with enough H > disk storage to replicate the drives from several other servers. rsync= > or equivalent software would drive the replication process.  > > > Do you know of any other packages that might do this kind of7 > replication?  Please pass along any links/references.  > 	 > Thanks,  > Robert >     > John Malmberg also started a project to port rsync to OpenVMS.  ) http://encompasserve.org/~malmberg/rsync/     ; It appears he would welcome collaborators in the project...   = http://encompasserve.org/~malmberg/rsync/AAA_RSYNC_README.TXT   M http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/54562e93a0fba588?oe=UTF-8   4 http://groups.google.de/group/vmsnet.vms-posix?hl=de   Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:03:16 +0000 (UTC) - From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) ' Subject: Re: Satellite MOP boot problem . Message-ID: <d8qc3j$h0b$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes in article <42b0a9b4$0$5668$626a14ce@news.free.fr> dated Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:20:35 +0200:@ >When I MOP boot my satellite via LAN (7.3-2 Alpha), I get this: > 9 >%%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  15-JUN-2005 00:28:30.13  %%%%%%%%%%% " >Message from user SYSTEM on DTL01$ >LANACP MOP V3 Downline Load ServiceE >Could not respond to load request on EWA0 from DTL02, file not found  >Requested file:  LAN$DLL: >                          .SYS  >  >(with the FF) >DTL01> sh log lan$dll> >    "LAN$DLL" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[MOM$SYSTEM]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) >DTL01> dir lan$dll:" >%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found  D The load file for a satellite node should be SYS$SYSTEM:APB.EXE, not/ LAN$DLL:.SYS.  That sounds like a default name.    MC LANCP SHOW NODE /ALL  or MC NCP SHOW KNOWN NODE CHAR   G will probably indicate no load file has been defined for your satellite  node.   0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:12:27 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> ' Subject: Re: Satellite MOP boot problem 3 Message-ID: <42b15ea3$0$4496$626a14ce@news.free.fr>    Keith A. Lewis wrote:    > MC LANCP SHOW NODE /ALL  > or > MC NCP SHOW KNOWN NODE CHAR  > I > will probably indicate no load file has been defined for your satellite  > node.    DTL01> MC LANCP SHOW NODE /ALL    Node Listing, volatile database:    (Catchall entry):    " DTL01> MC NCP SHOW KNOWN NODE CHAR    > Known Node Volatile Characteristics as of 30-OCT-2003 13:41:00   Executor node = 1.1 (DTL01)   6 Identification           = DECnet for OpenVMS AXP V7.3! Management version       = V4.0.0  Incoming timer           = 45  Outgoing timer           = 60 " Incoming Proxy           = Enabled" Outgoing Proxy           = Enabled! NSP version              = V4.1.0  Maximum links            = 32  Delay factor             = 80  Delay weight             = 5 Inactivity timer         = 60  Retransmit factor        = 10 ! Routing version          = V2.0.0 ( Type                     = nonrouting IV Routing timer            = 600 Broadcast routing timer  = 180 Maximum address          = 1023  Maximum circuits         = 16  Maximum cost             = 1022  Maximum hops             = 30  Maximum visits           = 63  Maximum area             = 63  Max broadcast nonrouters = 64  Max broadcast routers    = 32  Maximum path splits      = 1 Area maximum cost        = 1022  Area maximum hops        = 30  Maximum buffers          = 100 Buffer size              = 576! Nonprivileged user id    = DECNET ! Nonprivileged password   = ****** 0 Default access           = incoming and outgoing Pipeline quota           = 4032  Alias maximum links      = 32 ! Path split policy        = Normal  Maximum Declared Objects = 31      Remote node =   1.2 (DTL02)    No information available  9 Looks like I mixed MOP and LAN and DECnet satellite comm. ( Let me rebuild all that and I come back.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:28:27 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> . Subject: Re: Satellite MOP boot problem: fixed3 Message-ID: <42b19a9d$0$4492$626a14ce@news.free.fr>    Didier Morandi wrote:   ; > Looks like I mixed MOP and LAN and DECnet satellite comm. * > Let me rebuild all that and I come back.  F After having passed from DECnet Cluster comm to LAN, I did not do the H AUTOGEN, I just rebooted, this is why there was a mix in configurations.   Now the system has booted fine.    Thanks,    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:45:42 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> C Subject: See a BA350 SCSCI disk on a satellite from its boot server 3 Message-ID: <42b19ea8$0$4489$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   F I have an Alpha DTL01 whith a local disk and a satellite DTL02 with a = local disk and a BA350 attached to it, with three RZ29 in it.   G When trying to mou/sys/clu one of the BA disks, it fails on DTL01 with  	 an error:    DTL02> sh dev d   E Device              Device     Error    Volume        Free  Trans Mnt F   Name               Status     Count     Label       Blocks Count CntE DTL01$DKA0:         Mounted    0      ALPHA0731      144984     376 2   DTL01$DKA500:       Online     0E DTL02$DKA0:         Mounted    1      DTL02_1026    6208542     3   1 E DTL02$DKA100:       Mounted    0      FREEWARE      4106313     1   1 E DTL02$DKA500:       Mounted    0      BACKUP        6719616     1   1   DTL02$DVA0:         Online     0 DTL02> dism dka100 DTL02> mou/clu dka100 freeware4 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, FREEWARE mounted on _DTL02$DKA100:A %MOUNT-W-RMTMNTFAIL, _DTL02$DKA100: failed to mount on node DTL01 / -MOUNT-F-VOLINV, volume is not software enabled   2 What do you suggest to have my BA seen from DTL01?E Is it the question I saw in the Cluster_Config.com about shared SCSI: ; "Is the node to be a clustered node with a shared SCSI bus" 9 My answer was NO but maybe this is what I wanted to have?    Thanks,    D.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 12:40:28 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: SIR (was: Backup question) 3 Message-ID: <zKJps92RckBu@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <1118929848.272957.66370@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > C > One "silly" counterexample would be a file copied to the disk via E > BACKUP/RECORD giving a backup date that is later than the mod date. E > Such a file will not get picked up by either pass. Since this foils F > even the single-pass method (when /SINCE=BACKUP is used), it doesn'tH > really count as a bona fide counterexample. But I worry there might be > something else.   D    There is always the problem of users doing backup/record when youH    are relying on /since=record.  I've never had to educate my users not:    to do this, so I think in real life it's not a problem.  @    Maybe in VMS 8.4 or so we can get an option to make /record aH    privileged action.  It would have to be off for upward compatability,C    but I'd argue that the default state should be on.  I think OPER )    and/or SYSPRV should be the privilege.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 16:42:50 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>' Subject: Re: SIR (was: Backup question) B Message-ID: <1118965369.969482.57680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:k > In article <1118929848.272957.66370@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > > E > > One "silly" counterexample would be a file copied to the disk via G > > BACKUP/RECORD giving a backup date that is later than the mod date. G > > Such a file will not get picked up by either pass. Since this foils H > > even the single-pass method (when /SINCE=BACKUP is used), it doesn'tJ > > really count as a bona fide counterexample. But I worry there might be > > something else.  > F >    There is always the problem of users doing backup/record when you" >    are relying on /since=record.  C That's why I said it was silly. It screws things up even if you are - only doing one stream of incremental backups.   ( > I've never had to educate my users not< >    to do this, so I think in real life it's not a problem.   Agreed.   G However, here's another gotcha: A file restored from a save set or just E copied via BACKUP without /RECORD. What's the problem? Well, at least F in the v5.0 Backup docs they recommend /SINCE=BACKUP for daily backupsG and /SINCE=date for weekly backups (/IMAGE was for monthly backups). If G the modification date of the restored or copied file is from before the G "date", then it will not be backed up in a weekly backup even though it G should be. And the BACKUP restore of the file could well have been done  by the system manager.  C It is because of things like this that I find it best to be careful B whenever one is using VMS BACKUP in a non-standard way, or "weekly	 backups".     B >    Maybe in VMS 8.4 or so we can get an option to make /record aJ >    privileged action.  It would have to be off for upward compatability,E >    but I'd argue that the default state should be on.  I think OPER + >    and/or SYSPRV should be the privilege.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2005 08:16:07 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: SIR (was: Backup question) 3 Message-ID: <jEGUR7O9u6$0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <42B1D4AF.40D54CFA@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:C >>    Maybe in VMS 8.4 or so we can get an option to make /record a  >>    privileged action.   >  > J > Create a separate DCLTABLES for your unprivileged users where the BACKUP' > command is is defined without /RECORD < > (or having a conflicting DISALLOW that makes it unusable).  F    Increases my effort to do maintenance on the system since I have toE    remember to recreate that DCLTABLES after every product install or     upgrade.   F    IMHO it's something that VMS should give the system manager control    over.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jun 2005 08:14:40 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: SIR (was: Backup question) 3 Message-ID: <GBGlKIYEvRwz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <V1kse.2419$g4.32804@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes: >  > 7.3 HELP says:F >      o  To use the /RECORD qualifier you must either own the file or! >         have SYSPRV privileges.  > ( > This is taken care of already (almost) > K > Possibly it should be even more privileged, so that a "normal" user could = > not use /RECORD even on its own files, but that`s arguable. I > I can`t think of a reason for a normal user to use /RECORD. It's more a # > sysadmin qualifier than a user's.       Exactly.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:52:44 -0400 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com>   Subject: Re: Some DCL wish items, Message-ID: <Z9Wdnegob-p4wjLfRVn-tQ@rcn.net>   John Malmberg wrote: > Mark Berryman wrote: > 1 >> Here are some features I'd like to see in DCL.  >>   >> 4. I >> Define an application ACE for DCL.  When placed on a file, such an ACE J >> would specify the privilege mask to use while executing that particularJ >> command procedure.  It would remain in effect for any inner invokationsK >> but be removed once the file was exited.  Such an ACE would have Hidden, I >> Protected, and NoPropagate attributes and could only be manipulated in J >> Kernel mode (it would be useful if a new attribute could be defined for	 >> this).  >  > K > If you have DECNET installed, you can set up an program or DCL file as a  I > DECNET object with a designated account to run it on.  Since the object D > can look at the username and node name that invoked it, it can do A > additional management to tailor it's running to specific users.  > J > I use this in places where I need to run a prewritten test program with A > elevated privileges that I do not want the main build and test  I > environment to have elevated privileges or the ability to turn them on.  >  > -John # > malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp  > Personal Opinion Only E The Safety application has this capability. Also would allow process' J base priority to change or could add identifiers to a process while a fileF was open. Also the logic is "in there" to deny access to a file if the9 process' privilege mask has suspiciously many privileges.   E Note however that kernel threads make fiddling of this kind more of a H problem than old style processes. Safety hasn't been updated for a whileF but I suspect it would not take much to make it work on newer VMS; allH the source code is on sigtapes, and I don't think it will break anythingD with the new cache entries, seeing virtual disks and the like do not& and the frag avoiding driver does not.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:09:39 +0000 (UTC) < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann), Subject: Re: swap PWS600au from Linux to VMS) Message-ID: <d8mrvj$lob$1@news.BelWue.DE>   d In article <42aeee68$0$25699$636a15ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:  I >I have a PWS600au with Linux/Alpha installed on it. I also have a BA350  1 >with two disks. One of them has VMS 7.3-1 on it.  > I >I wish to boot from that disk and perform a restore of the local system  = >disk, because the PWS600 has an IDE CD-ROM (for the moment).  > H >When I boot and get to the SRM prompt, I see my PKA controller but not  >the disks 200 and 300.  > = >What would you do to have vms installed as fast as possible?  >FAQ did not help.  L Did you install the latest firmware? Next, check the SCSI bus for unique IDs and proper termination.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:46:24 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: swap PWS600au from Linux to VMS( Message-ID: <opssdwbmjezgicya@hyrrokkin>  4 On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:11:17 +0200, Didier Morandi   <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> wrote:    > Christoph Gartmann wrote:  > F >> Did you install the latest firmware? Next, check the SCSI bus for  
 >> unique IDs  >> and proper termination. >  > no,  > yes,K > that was it. One of my two PK cards seems to have a terminator included   I > and not the second one. So I plugged the BA in PKA instead of PKB and    > now I see my disks. 	 > Thanks, 6 The second one may have been a differential controller >  > D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:12:52 -0600 0 From: Mark Berryman <mark.berryman@mvb.saic.com>4 Subject: Re: TCPIP : Let RIP set the default route ?% Message-ID: <42aee5e7@cpns1.saic.com>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:^ > In article <42AE207F.F46917AA@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > I >>Would it be possible to have VMS configured without a default route and H >>then listen for RIP information from routers to determine which routerC >>provides a route to the rest of the world ? (I believe that TCPIP 7 >>Services provides the GateD service which does RIP).   >  > ! > Yes and yes (but not only RIP).  >  > I >>With the internet backbone now all BGP, is RIP still "state of the art" A >>for intranets, or is there an equivalent of BGP for intranets ?  >  >   > My first choice would be OSPF. >  >  > BUT: > D > 1) Usually, the network is driven by other folks than the systems.L > And they usually don't want to share responsibility. So, running a routingJ > protocol on a host doesn't make the network people happy (eg. they can'tJ > switch from RIP to OSPF on their own, the need the host people to change  > the hosts IP config then, too) > L > 2) As a host's manager, you don't want to rely totally on dynamic routing.J > The network people might change their routing (information) protocol forJ > which you are eventually deaf (how many years is OSPF in routers and howL > many years later GATED came to VMS?) and then you are w/o remote networks.H > A catchall = default routing entry (in addition) would be a wise move. > H > 3) If you define a default routing entry in the (VMS) host, then it isK > important that you don't supply routing information to the other routers. > > Otherwise you tell them that your VMS box _is_ the internet. > So, only listen, not supply. > G > 4) Routers are vulnerable to (eg. redirect) attacks if not secured by H > IP address filters and maybe secure key exchange. Iff the host is ableK > to share this functionality you still have the problem with the 2 groups.  > F > So, yes, it is possible to use/run VMS/TCPIP with/as a IP router(s).E > But it would be easier, if you only run it as a host with a default C > routing entry and eventually a GATED listener (configured for the 6 > protocol the routers you to exchange information)...  I Actually, you can learn your default route dynamically without running a  H routing protocol.  Use the ICMP Router Discovery Protocol (called RDISC H in TCPIP services).  This is an ICMP advertisement from the router that H allows your host to learn about the presence of a router in essentially H the same manner that DECnet and Appletalk do.  It is independent of the I protocols used by the routers themselves to exchange routing information  F and the routers can be configured with a preference so that, if there G are multiple paths out of your LAN, you can automatically fail over if   the primary router fails.   I This is only useful for a default route.  If you need to select a router  B based on your destination than either a static table or a dynmaic E routing protocol is needed.  If there is only one router path out of  A your LAN, then you might as well just use a static default route  G (unless, for some reason, that one router has a tendency to change its   address on the LAN).  
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 14:17:18 -0700) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> = Subject: Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster C Message-ID: <1118870238.289504.134670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Didier Morandi wrote (in part):   A > The only thing I found is that during my reboot I got a message I > complaining about license OPENVMS-ALPHA not registered. Effectively, my % > license name is OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER.    Is the license in the database?   # $license/list/fu openvms-alpha-user    shows what?   ? If it is in the database, what happens when you try to load it?    Ken    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 14:56:32 -0700) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> = Subject: Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster C Message-ID: <1118872592.120953.272830@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Didier Morandi wrote:  > I have a clue: > , > The error message at cluster boot time is: > 8 > "INCLUDE must specify only one node in OPENVMS-ALPHA". >  > ?   / $ license modify openvms-alpha/include=nodename  $ license load openvms-alpha   (Check the syntax before using)    Ken    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:12:01 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>= Subject: Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster + Message-ID: <42B0D1E1.E8450D5F@comcast.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:  >  > I have a clue: > , > The error message at cluster boot time is: > 8 > "INCLUDE must specify only one node in OPENVMS-ALPHA".   Common system disk?   C If so, you may need to play some games with the .LDBs. The VMS base = license and cluster license may need to appear in a .LDB in a G node-specific path. Then, the others can be in a .LDB in a common path. * In SYSTARTUP_VMS, you could try this then:  + $ license load/database=sys$common:[sysexe]    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 21:31:11 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster 3 Message-ID: <4Osg95nHd8GF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <42b0ac8f$0$8268$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:  > Ken Robinson wrote:  >  >>   >> Didier Morandi wrote: >>   >>>I have a clue:  >>> - >>>The error message at cluster boot time is:  >>> 9 >>>"INCLUDE must specify only one node in OPENVMS-ALPHA".  >>>  >>>? >>   >>  2 >> $ license modify openvms-alpha/include=nodename >> $ license load openvms-alpha  > K > No, this is a NO_SHARE license. There is no such include for that one (I   > tried :-)   E Not specify INCLUDE is the logical equivalent of INCLUDE=<everything> G which is not allowed for a NO_SHARE license.  If you have not specified  an INCLUDE, you should do so.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 00:56:44 -0700" From: "hvlems" <hvlems@freenet.de>= Subject: Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster C Message-ID: <1118908604.379247.115960@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   ? Didier, NO_SHARE is the keyword that trigers LMF to check for a D nodename that is included or nodenames that are excluded. In a threeF node cluster with names UN, DEUX, TROIS you have two options for a VMS= base license (or any other license wth the NO_SHARE keyword):   "  $ lic mod <license> /INCLUDE=DEUX   or  ( $ lic mode <license> /EXCLUDE=(UN,TROIS)   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:38:42 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>= Subject: Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster + Message-ID: <d8s9ui$9c2$1@news01.intel.com>    Didier Morandi wrote:  > Ken Robinson wrote:  >  >> >> Didier Morandi wrote: >> >>> I have a clue: >>> . >>> The error message at cluster boot time is: >>> : >>> "INCLUDE must specify only one node in OPENVMS-ALPHA". >>>  >>> ?  >> >> >>2 >> $ license modify openvms-alpha/include=nodename >> $ license load openvms-alpha  >  > K > No, this is a NO_SHARE license. There is no such include for that one (I   > tried :-)   @      As others have pointed out, you must have the /INCLUDE=node@ for NO_SHARE licenses in a cluster.  You said these are hobbiest= systems.  You should get a separate OPENVMS-ALPHA license PAK : from Montagar for each system (registered with *different*? serial numbers, eh?).  Register an load both PAKs, but /INCLUDE  them to different nodes.   	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:10:35 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> = Subject: Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster 3 Message-ID: <42b1ceb0$0$4484$626a14ce@news.free.fr>    DTL02> ty LIC_CLUSTER.COM  $!+  $! LIC_CLUSTER.COM $! 15-jun-2005 $! DMo.  $!-  $ on error then exit $! DTL01 AlphaStation 250 4/266 ( $ auth_code="DECUS-FRA-028159799-******" $ chksum="********************" 4 $ license disable/log OPENVMS-ALPHA/auth='auth_code'D $ Write Sys$output "Registering and Loading OPENVMS-ALPHA for DTL01" $ Write Sys$output "" ) $ LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-ALPHA        -           /ACTIVITY=A     -*          /AUTHORIZATION='auth_code'      -"          /DATE=14-JUN-2006       -#          /HARDWARE_ID=*********** -           /ISSUER=DECUS   -"          /OPTIONS=(NO_SHARE)     -          /PRODUCER=DEC   -*          /TERMINATION=14-JUN-2006        -          /UNITS=0        -          /CHECKSUM='chksum' / $ license unload/log OPENVMS-ALPHA/producer=DEC @ $ license enable     OPENVMS-ALPHA/auth='auth_code'/producer=DECA $ license modify     OPENVMS-ALPHA/auth='auth_code'/include=DTL01 @ $ license load       OPENVMS-ALPHA/auth='auth_code'/producer=DEC $! $! DTL02 PWS600au ( $ auth_code="DECUS-FRA-028159799-******"  $ chksum="*********************"4 $ license disable/log OPENVMS-ALPHA/auth='auth_code'D $ Write Sys$output "Registering and Loading OPENVMS-ALPHA for DTL02" $ Write Sys$output "" ) $ LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-ALPHA        -           /ACTIVITY=A     -*          /AUTHORIZATION='auth_code'      -"          /DATE=14-JUN-2006       -#          /HARDWARE_ID=*********** -           /ISSUER=DECUS   -"          /OPTIONS=(NO_SHARE)     -          /PRODUCER=DEC   -*          /TERMINATION=14-JUN-2006        -          /UNITS=0        -          /CHECKSUM='chksum' / $ license unload/log OPENVMS-ALPHA/producer=DEC @ $ license enable     OPENVMS-ALPHA/auth='auth_code'/producer=DECA $ license modify     OPENVMS-ALPHA/auth='auth_code'/include=DTL02 @ $ license load       OPENVMS-ALPHA/auth='auth_code'/producer=DEC $ exit   did the trick. Many thanks to all.  I'm getting old...   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jun 2005 23:41:43 -0700' From: "Bart Zorn" <Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl> = Subject: Re: The VMS Contest of the Day: Licenses and Cluster C Message-ID: <1118990503.488947.255900@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Didier,   F This looks to me as overkill! If you can DISABLE a license, you cannotC REGISTER it again. If you have just REGISTERed a license, you don't F have to ENABLE it. And when UNLOADing, MODIFYing or LOADing, you don't= have to specify /PRODUCER. (That is, I assume you do not have D OPENVMS-ALPHA licenses produced by another company!) Oh, I forgot, a2 LOAD will automatically do an UNLOAD, if required.  + Hey, it is good to see you back at OpenVMS!    Regards,  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:29:45 +0000 (UTC) 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> * Subject: UAF> /ACCOUNT What's it used for?? Message-ID: <d8u8mo$sup$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>    Hello,  L Can someone please tell me (or give me a pointer to the documentation about)I what exactly VMS does with the data in the /ACCOUNT field of a Username's  User Authorization File record?    Off the top of my head: -   C 1) It's stored via the ACCOUNTING utility and can be used to bundle  Usernames together for billing  H 2) If the UIC Group code doesn't already exist then the ACCOUNT field is* used to create an Identifier for the Group   Anything else?  E Why do I want to know? Well, there is currently *no* way to specify a L Resource Domain ID or a Facility Code when creating a Persona :-( and I needB to be able to Create, Find and Assume personae on-the-fly while a)J preventing unauthorised exploitation of their existence by the applicationL code, and b) not interfering with any other layered product that the processI may be simultaneously invoking. So naturally I need to somehow be able to J identify *my* personae among any available personae in a given process. ToL satisfy these requirements I intend to override the 'real' iss$_account dataB with 'T3$ACC' when creating my TIER3 persona. Oh, and I'll also be" specifying iss$_mode = psl$c_exec.  A (Why can't I specify iss$_mode in a call to $persona_reserve? The C application code can just $delete it anytime or $assume it whenever J appropriate. (And don't get me goin' on that old chestnut "Why do you needL DETACH privilege to $RESERVE a persona but NOT to $ASSUME it???") This stuffB was never really 'finished' was it? "It's just for NT and external* Authentication. No one else will use it."?  I So maybe you know a better way to solve this conundrum. If so then please F let me know. Otherwise, please point out all known issues with using aJ 'dodgy'/different/non-original/generic ACCOUNT field for a persona that is+ executing on VMS. What will VMS make of it?   = And another thing, WHY can't I specify iss$_mode in a call to  $persona_find???   Regards Richard Maher   J PS> Yes I did see the iss$_doi (Domain Of Interpretation) but that's aboutK NT or VMS isn't it? Anyway it's to do with Extensions that I'm staying well 	 clear of.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:03:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: UAF> /ACCOUNT What's it used for?, Message-ID: <42B3108D.43188985@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:G > > 1) It's stored via the ACCOUNTING utility and can be used to bundle " > > Usernames together for billing > > L > > 2) If the UIC Group code doesn't already exist then the ACCOUNT field is. > > used to create an Identifier for the Group > >  > > Anything else? > >  >  >    That's it.     F Actually that isn't "it". You are forgetting customer use of the field2 for various applications and management of SYSUAF.  G Consider students in a class given a group. At the end of the semester, D you can extract all the usernames in that class by using the accountE field and then delete their files and then their acocunt. The account H can be displayed by applications along with username on some screens etcA etc. It is a "commodity" field that you can use the way you want.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:47:30 +0100 1 From: "chris" <christian.rothwell@baesystems.com> " Subject: unix script on VMS to DOS1 Message-ID: <42b27e29$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>   F Were having problems with UNIX scripts that have been created on a VMSK system , which are then FTP'd to a DOS system. The problem is when the file J is read in from the DOS system all its line feeds and carridge returns are screwed up from the VMS system.   I Is there any utility out there to view line feeds and carridge returms on E DOs??? the file is saved as a txt file or EDF file. , currently viewd  through notepad.H We end up manually going through the files on the DOS system checking if line feeds /tabs etc are ok.  K The only other alternative is to change the code on how the file is read in 4 (i.e. ignore carridge returns, tabs and line feeds.)   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jun 2005 08:08:20 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>& Subject: Re: unix script on VMS to DOS7 Message-ID: <Xns96786737BF113dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   G %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, chris wrote in news:42b27e29$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net   H > Were having problems with UNIX scripts that have been created on a VMSH > system , which are then FTP'd to a DOS system. The problem is when theE > file is read in from the DOS system all its line feeds and carridge - > returns are screwed up from the VMS system.   K You may have made a mistake in your use of FTP.  FTP supports two types of  J transfer, binary and ASCII.  If you've transferred text files from VMS to + DOS in binary mode you'll get what you see.      Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:40:55 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)& Subject: Re: unix script on VMS to DOS6 Message-ID: <00A45666.115D2F20@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  e In article <42b27e29$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>, "chris" <christian.rothwell@baesystems.com> writes: G >Were having problems with UNIX scripts that have been created on a VMS L >system , which are then FTP'd to a DOS system. The problem is when the fileK >is read in from the DOS system all its line feeds and carridge returns are   >screwed up from the VMS system. > J >Is there any utility out there to view line feeds and carridge returms onF >DOs??? the file is saved as a txt file or EDF file. , currently viewd >through notepad. I >We end up manually going through the files on the DOS system checking if  >line feeds /tabs etc are ok.  > L >The only other alternative is to change the code on how the file is read in5 >(i.e. ignore carridge returns, tabs and line feeds.)   M How about FTPing in ASCII mode instead of binary?  That should auto-translate  your LFs and CRs.    -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:36:42 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> Subject: Upgrade to VMS 4.6 - Message-ID: <42B2A7BA.22775.298924@localhost>   D I need the upgrades to move from VMS V4.5 to V4.6.  Anyone have the  tapes around??  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:07:35 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Upgrade to VMS 4.6 , Message-ID: <42B31166.15D1724F@teksavvy.com>   "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > E > I need the upgrades to move from VMS V4.5 to V4.6.  Anyone have the  > tapes around??    E I *MAY* still have TK50s for MicroVMS , but as I recall, I started at F 4.7.  Not sure if they are readable. I'd have to look through my stack of old TKs.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:38:36 +0200 3 From: "Maarten van Breemen" <vanDOTbreemen@home.nl> & Subject: VT terminal user support tool; Message-ID: <42b26fbc$0$16379$4d4ebb8e@read.news.nl.uu.net>   H On OpenVMS/VAX I used to have TT/Recon, a remote user support tool whichL enables you to take over another one's VT terminal session. It is capable ofF capturing screen I/O and remotely enter keystrokes. Sadly it was neverA ported to OpenVMS/Alpha. Anyone aware of a comparable product for  OpenVMS/Alpha?   Regards, Maarten    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:25:33 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: VT terminal user support tool/ Message-ID: <BED80F4D.FB62%roktsci@comcast.net>    On 6/16/05 11:38 PM, in article D 42b26fbc$0$16379$4d4ebb8e@read.news.nl.uu.net, "Maarten van Breemen" <vanDOTbreemen@home.nl> wrote:  J > On OpenVMS/VAX I used to have TT/Recon, a remote user support tool whichN > enables you to take over another one's VT terminal session. It is capable ofH > capturing screen I/O and remotely enter keystrokes. Sadly it was neverC > ported to OpenVMS/Alpha. Anyone aware of a comparable product for  > OpenVMS/Alpha? > 
 > Regards,	 > Maarten  >  >  Contrl for OpenVMS by Raxco    Yes, the "o" is missing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:10:12 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>* Subject: Re: VT terminal user support toolA Message-ID: <42b2d9c5$0$1133$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>    Maarten van Breemen wrote:  J > On OpenVMS/VAX I used to have TT/Recon, a remote user support tool whichN > enables you to take over another one's VT terminal session. It is capable ofH > capturing screen I/O and remotely enter keystrokes. Sadly it was neverC > ported to OpenVMS/Alpha. Anyone aware of a comparable product for  > OpenVMS/Alpha? > 
 > Regards,	 > Maarten  >  >   , *Terminal Session Monitoring and Assistance*  * Advanced Systems Concepts, Inc. - Recorder7 http://www.advsyscon.com/Products/Recorder/Recorder.asp   ' Advanced Systems Concepts, Inc. - Watch 1 http://www.advsyscon.com/Products/Watch/Watch.asp    EMETEK - MAGICwindows # http://www.emetek.com/magicwindows/   , Networking Dynamics Corporation - Peek & Spy* http://www.networkingdynamics.com/Peek.htm  > Omniplex Limited - VMS Products - MultiSessions and Peek & SpyP http://www.omniplex.ltd.uk/products.asp?code=0&typeid=-1640878542&parent=welcome   PointSecure - ChalkTalk  http://www.pointsecure.com  % ProvN - RaxcoSupport Suite - Reseller : http://www.legacy-2000.com/Products/raxcosupport_suite.htm  ) Raxco Software, Inc. - RaxcoSupport Suite + http://www.raxco.com/products/raxcosupport/ 8 http://www.raxco.com/products/raxcosupport/more_info.cfm  % Software Partners/32, Inc. - TT/RECON $ VAX/VMS Terminal Reconnaissance Tool= http://www.softwarepartners.com/products/ttrecon/ttrecon.html   J Supervisor Series terminal monitoring software - Hunter Goatley's FILESERV? http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?SUPERVISOR   A I also once used a product called VTEST which provided a Virtual  H Terminal Driver allowing a development supervisor to attach to the same F terminal device of other users. The company offering this product was H sold to Cyrano. This capability may now be integrated into one of their  Test Suites. http://www.azimith.com/ A http://web.archive.org/web/20041010221056/cyrano.com/legacy/test/    Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:06:19 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>7 Subject: who created a detached process SET AUDIT WORKS / Message-ID: <BED4B0FB.F979%roktsci@comcast.net>   I On 6/13/05 8:57 PM, in article 42AE55B5.DAEA12CC@teksavvy.com, "JF Mezei" % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Jeff Cameron wrote:  >> $ANALYZE/AUDIT/EVENT=LOGIN  >>  ' >> Use additional qualifiers as needed.  >  >  > D > But this wouldn't give any information on who actually created the > process, wouldn't it ?   Yes it does!H The command SET AUDIT/ENABLE=LOGIN=DETACHED will show not only the ownerG of the created process, but the username who created the process. I did E the following from my account (username CAMERON) on behalf of the UIC  [RLEE].   & $set audit/alarm/enable=login=detachedH $run/detached/input=$25$DKC100:[rlee]wait.com/out=$25$DKC100:[rlee]wait.& log/UIC=[rlee] sys$system:loginout.exe= %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 202004B2   8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  14-JUN-2005 10:29:16.95  %%%%%%%%%%%& Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on PELE2 Security alarm (SECURITY) on PELE, system id: 10490 Auditable event:          Detached process login1 Event time:               14-JUN-2005 10:29:16.95 " PID:                      202004B2! Username:                 CAMERON & Process owner:            [ADMIN,RLEE]H Image name:               $25$DKC0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]LOGINOUT.EXE Posix UID:                -2) Posix GID:                -2 (%XFFFFFFFE)  > H > Isn't a detached process intrinsically untraceable to the process thatF > caused it to be created ? (from accounting/security) point of view ? >  >  > Consider the following:  >  > <under username CHOCOLATE>+ > $SUBMIT/USER=VANILLA  process_startup.com  >  >  > then process_startup.com:  > $!P > $RUN/DETACHED/USER=VANILLA/PROC=XXX/input=process_run.com/output=process_run.l > og/etc > $! >  > J > In such a case, use VANILLA will create the detached process, but it was< > really a back job submitted by user CHOCOLATE that did it. > J > Once you know which files are involved, you could put security alarms onD > the files, and then use audit or opperator.log to find out who hasJ > accessed the files and that would give you a good hint or who is causing > them to be created.    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Jun 2005 23:03:56 GMT. From: JONESD@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)D Subject: Re: wrong SCSI cable for PWS600 au (msg for Paul Sture too): Message-ID: <d8nnos$2kc$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  6 > > (What VMS compatible card has a 50-pin connecter?)  < Actually, I believe several of them do, e.g KZPCM, KZPBA-CA.      < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 271-6718- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St.              |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jun 2005 12:28:17 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) D Subject: Re: wrong SCSI cable for PWS600 au (msg for Paul Sture too)! Message-ID: <x7ZDtG1nJ53j@sinead>   8 In article <8660a3a1050614152167d1e1e2@mail.gmail.com>, / William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes:  [...] N > One of my maxims is "Neither of the esses (S's)  in SCSI stands for "Standa= > rd". > - > Another is "When in doubt, count the pins."  >  > : ^ )   K And "the shorter (the cables) the better", unless you're using differential  SCSI or LVD.   Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr              ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 DSNA/DTI/SDER (ex CENA)         / /   /     / /|  /|J Athis-Mons France              / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/              http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:22:24 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> ; Subject: Re: [RT] HP offers POLA for "virus-free computing" 6 Message-ID: <8660a3a105061415226281fe1@mail.gmail.com>  B On 13 Jun 2005 15:40:18 -0700, AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote: > Check out POLA:  >=20L > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/feature_stories/2005/05special_virussaf=+ e.html?mtxs=3Dhome-corp&mtxb=3DB2&mtxl=3DL2  >=20G > This link was on the hp home page. (It was one of the rotating links, : > so you won't see it unless you check at the right time.) >=20/ > POLA stands for Principle of Least Authority.  >=20( > I wonder where they got this idea? :-) >=20 >=20  D I gave them a rather pointed suggestion about a certain HP operating/ system; y'all might be able to guess which one.    : ^ )        --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.337 ************************                                                                                                                                            B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B     B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    B    	B    
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