1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 24 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 350       Contents:P Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale, Itanic screaP Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale,Itanic scream1 Re: Hackers and Microsoft Engineers, very amusing  Re: How to FTP with UCX 3.3? Re: How to FTP with UCX 3.3?; Re: HP is commited to keep on with the VMS Hobbyist Program ; Re: HP is commited to keep on with the VMS Hobbyist Program ; Re: HP is commited to keep on with the VMS Hobbyist Program $ Re: MSL5026 firmware / HP LTT on VMS Re: My Multia Adventure  Re: My Multia Adventure  Re: OpenVMS I64 EFI Console , Re: Problems reading CDROMs on an ALPHA DS10 Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: Revival of Alpha? 
 Re: SAN & DFU - Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generator - Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generator - Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generator ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download   Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe  Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe  Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe  Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe% Re: VMS Memory Management vs. others'   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:22:29 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale, Itanic screa 0 Message-ID: <11bn2fl51vfk43f@corp.supernews.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:F > if you would read the site and look at all their pictures, you would@ > find that Moses and Mt Sinai were not just stories as many sayB > but actual events ... look at their accounts and pictures of theC > split rock at Horeb, Elijahs cave, the golden calf altar, and the ; > burnt mountain peak where the rocks were smashed open but @ > only burnt on the outside (not volcanic), the possible burningC > bush, quail in the desert, the crossing point in the red sea that A > has a natural bridge rising from the depths of the red sea, and A > diving pictures that found egytian chariot wheels and parts and @ > human bones lying at the bottom ... the possible burning bush,A > acacia trees (used for the ark of the covenant), water smoothed C > rocks running into a small lake bed at the base of the split rock @ > at Horeb, camps with rocks with etched foot pairs on them (theG > Israelites were told to mark with their feet the land they dwelt) ... B > also in a small town away a cave that a syrian arcaeologist told= > them were the caves of Moses with writings on the wall that @ > stated this, the bitter springs of marah, the seven springs of@ > elim ... the evidence is overwhelming and all is fenced in and> > protected by the saudi goverment ... what are you afraid of? > Read and believe!  >   " As I reach for more troll food ...  G So what does any of this have to do with proving there is a god?  Even  G if these things all happened, there are multiple possible explanations.   I So, if I convince you that black is black, and white is white, does that  3 then mean that everything else I might say is true?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 01:05:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale,Itanic scream , Message-ID: <42BB949A.FB0E32AA@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:H > So what does any of this have to do with proving there is a god?  EvenI > if these things all happened, there are multiple possible explanations.   Q Faith, is by definition, believing in something which you can't prove or explain.     C The point is that as human science progresses, more and more of the C bible can be explained scientifically, and a lot of what used to be A miracles are now routinely done in Hollywood in a very convincing G fashion and would never have been seen as "tricks" by people 2005 years 0 ago, to them, it would have seen like a miracle.  D It may end up that the stories in the bible related to some advancedA space aliens visiting earth to monitor our progress and make some F impressive light shows to impress people. (aka : miracles). (Or worse,G humans in a distant futuire who have mastered time travel and gone back H to year 0 to inseminate Mary and then supervise Jesus's life and fix hisD wounds after he was crucified and healed him sufficiently to be seen alive a few days later).    A Lets say that science can one day prove that earth was visited by H advanced alien civilisation whose technoogy explains all of the miraclesG in the bible.  Lets say that it was such an advanced civilisation which H meddled with a primordial earth to foster the creation of cell organismsD (eg: created life on earth). This may explain our existance, and mayH scientifically explain all of the bible. But that does not explain whereG those space aliens came from and who created them. (and who created the + creator and so on, and so on and so on...).   G Similarly, we may be able to fully describe the big bang theory down to H the microsecond it happened. But we still can't  truly grasp the conceptG of an universe without any bounds either in space or time, and we can't H explain what triggered the big bang and what existed before that and who" created that matter and/or energy.  G As long as there are things about our existance/roots which are not yet G explained, there is room for faith. But religions must evolve with time G and with scientific progress. We can't allow a whole nation/religion to @ revert to believing that thunder is god's anger , or decide thatD "evolution" is not to be discussed in schools because the bible saysF "creation" (especially when the two are not necessarily incompatible).  H Politicians who, wanting to appear to be religious, pass laws forbiddingE the discussion of "evolution" in schools are akin to those who called E for the hanging of people who claimed the earth was round or that the E sun did not rotate around the earth, but rather the other way around.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 05:35:31 GMT  From: Opcom <eccm@swbell.net> : Subject: Re: Hackers and Microsoft Engineers, very amusing; Message-ID: <DYMue.1929$W74.861@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>   ? This private, controlled event was surely better for microsoft  > that the very public humiliation and ridicule they would have < faced if they had taken their o/s to the DEFCON CTF hacking / contest as we did with VMS. VMS was unhackable.   @ The rules of the CTF were subsequently changed to eliminate the ' possibility of using VMS in the future.   B The rules change also eliminated windows systems, but more likely > because points scored for hacking the o/s is not worth the 10  minutes of effort required.      Dave Froble wrote:  % > This link has a very amusing story.  > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24013  > I > Apparently Microsoft got together their software people and hackers to  G > show how much more secure their products are.  It only took about 10  I > minutes for the hackers to get the Microsoft programmers rather upset.  I > Microsoft managers were quite happy.  They said that they kept talking  K > at the programmers about security, to no avail.  The Hackers finally got  " > the programmer's attantion.  :-) >      --  
 rest begards,  Patrick Jankowiak   6   - reply to  r e c y c l e r AT s w b e l l DOT n e t   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2005 19:36:00 -0700/ From: "joerojas@gmail.com" <joerojas@gmail.com> % Subject: Re: How to FTP with UCX 3.3? C Message-ID: <1119580560.056482.221590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   " I have a Digital MicroVAX 3100-085   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:25:10 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> % Subject: Re: How to FTP with UCX 3.3? 0 Message-ID: <11bn2khmp79d3a1@corp.supernews.com>   joerojas@gmail.com wrote: $ > I have a Digital MicroVAX 3100-085 >   D There will be connectors on the back for both transceiver cable and G thinwire.  Between them will be a small horizontal slide switch.  Move  . the switch toward the connector you are using.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2005 12:03:28 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> D Subject: Re: HP is commited to keep on with the VMS Hobbyist ProgramC Message-ID: <1119551473.874282.314940@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F Of course, maybe the lack of response was more do to the Hobbyist siteC being an independent site set up by Wiz and some others with little A involvement from HP/Compaq other than the general blessing of the  OpenVMS Hobbyist idea.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:09:42 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> D Subject: Re: HP is commited to keep on with the VMS Hobbyist Program3 Message-ID: <42bb3328$0$8839$626a14ce@news.free.fr>    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:   G > I would have wished for a comment that your concerns were referred to < > someone who would contact you and/or fix the difficulties.  H Maybe some private parts of Ann's answer have been truncated. Who knows? :-)    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:18:27 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> D Subject: Re: HP is commited to keep on with the VMS Hobbyist Program, Message-ID: <42BB6D6F.AD211D68@teksavvy.com>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: K > I notice this response, while gratifying, continues a disturbing trend in  > thatJ > it answers the initial question asked, but fails to address the concerns > you 5 > expressed regarding your "experiment" difficulties.     G In terms of access to media, I have been told that this has been in the E works for some time, but that it is a sensitive subject which much be . dealth with properly if one is to get success.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 02:25:46 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)- Subject: Re: MSL5026 firmware / HP LTT on VMS 6 Message-ID: <00A45BB1.D1ECB1A7@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  m In article <23JUN05.11203251@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes:   K Carl was very helpful with my last round of woe with the MSL5026.  I didn't L see his post until I'd solved the problem independently; here's what I wrote about that, after his post:   G >Go to the www.hp.com, driver downloads, enter MSL5026 for the product, L >select one of them, then under "Operating Systems" way at the bottom you'll >see: = > 	Cross operating system (BIOS, Firmware, Diagnostics, etc.)  >  >There you'll find V5.07.  > I >The easiest way to load it is using msutil program that came with it (on $ >a floppy) over the serial console.   0 I inherited the drive and didn't get the floppy.   >Lot's of other settings can be F >changed there including the ftp location used for "Flash library fromI >remote file". I've entered the correct info there but never did get that 	 >to work.  > I >You can use ftp too but first you need to upload (put) the firmware file I >in a  directory on the library (/upload? I forget). Then you can use the G >web interface to "Flash library from LOCAL file" which references that  >directory.   N Finally got this sorted out.  (Found the clue on the Overland Data website, inM a customer newsletter, by googling on "Flash library from local file"; Google = can't find the owner's manual for the MSL on the HP website.)   8 The tape drive runs an FTP server (this was news to me).  O From your PC or VMS box, download the firmware from the HP site.  (That's up to E version 5.07 while Overland Data is still down in 4.03 or something.)   N FTP to the tape drive by IP address or VMS name.  (Default passwords, etc, areE an excellent reason to have the tape drive in an Internet-Free Zone).    Login: X Password: 1 	 cd upload  bin 4 put firmwarefilename  (NextGen_507.bin in this case) exit  O [Note that if you use Reflection FTP it throws lots of errors because it always N issues "LIST -a" after each command in order to get the info to update the GUIJ window for the server, and "LIST -A" doesn't seem to be supported.  I haveK Reflection configured to give me a command line as well, and I just type in   "ls" and it shows me the files.]  L Now fire up a web browser that supports a recent Java plugin and point it atO the tape drive; this gives you the remote management interface.  Log in, select O functions, scroll down to "Library Flash Operation", select "Flash Library from ( Local File" and press "Start the Flash".  L This brings you to a new screen showing the Upload directory and listing theM firmware upgrades there.  Click on the one you want to apply, and after going J through a confirmation screen ("Do you really know what you're doing") theM upgrade happens and the library reboots.  Wait fifteen seconds, log in again, M and the library status page will show you that the firmware has been updated.    Thanks!    -- Alan        --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:56:38 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: My Multia Adventure+ Message-ID: <42BB6856.1A664E6E@comcast.net>    Keith Cayemberg wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote:  > > I > >>>As I mentioned in another post, I acquired a couple of Alpha Multias L > >>>recently. One of them has an external SCSI connector, but both are only > >>>the 150MHz(?) variety.  > >>D > >>Alpha UDBs came in 166MHz fixed CPU, 166MHz socketed, and 233MHzI > >>socketed.  The fixed CPU had a fixed cache; I think the socketed ones ) > >>came with socketed/upgradeable cache.  > >>J > >>I ran VMS on a UDB for a while using an external cabinet with one RZ28J > >>disk and one CDROM; worked fine.  Its the internal scsi units you needJ > >>to be careful of; even with a slow disk in them they run very hot.  MyJ > >>solution was to purchase a slot cover with an adapter that went from aI > >>50-pin IDC (standard internal narrow SCSI) inside to an HD50 external 9 > >>socket; that converted the internal SCSI to external.  > >>G > >>Can't help at all with your VMS installation methods; I never tried J > >>that.  Be aware that a UDB with a low or dead battery can appear to be6 > >>broken and mafunction in various interesting ways. > >  > > K > > I downloaded the UDB manual .PDF many years ago, but don't find it just  > > now. Anyone have that? > >  > J > Multia MultiClient Desktop - Service Information - Brian Cirulnick - PDF0 > http://www.obsolyte.com/dec/multia/udb-man.pdf > H > Multia MultiClient Desktop - Service Information - dreamtime.org - PDF1 > http://ftp.dreamtime.org/pub/multia/udb-man.pdf  > E > Multia MultiClient Desktop - Service Information - Eric Smith - PDF 5 > http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/computers/udb-man.pdf  >  > *Multia Links* > ' > AlphaLinux - UDB-Multia Documentation 1 > http://www.alphalinux.org/docs/udb-multia.shtml  >  > Debian GNU/Linux on a UDB 8 > http://www.alphalinux.org/docs/debian-udb-install.html > < > DEC Multia / UDB (Universal Desktop Box) - Brian Cirulnick% > http://www.obsolyte.com/dec/multia/  > 2 > Digital's Multia - Alpha Linux - Wayback Machineg > http://web.archive.org/web/20040504191816/http://www.nukem.freeserve.co.uk/contents/computing/multia/  > 2 > DJE Systems OpenVMS Hobbyist Multia Support Page0 > http://www.djesys.com/vms/hobbyist/multia.html > 8 > DJE Systems OpenVMS Hobbyist Multia Support Page Notes2 > http://www.djesys.com/vms/hobbyist/mltianot.html > $ > Dreamtime.org - Multia FTP Archive% > ftp://ftp.dreamtime.org/pub/multia/  > + > Multia - DEC UDB Information - Eric Smith 2 > http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/computers/udb.html > J > Multia Tools for booting OpenVMS on Multia systems - OVMS Freeware CD v47 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/multia/  > J > Multia Tools for booting OpenVMS on Multia systems - OVMS Freeware CD v57 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/multia/  > 8 > Multia - Tools for booting OpenVMS on Multia systems -$ > University of Missouri Kansas City$ > ftp://ftp.umkc.edu/PUB/VMS/MULTIA/ > 4 > Multia Docs - CPU Micromart Mirror - dreamtime.org: > http://www.dreamtime.org/multia/cpumicromart/multia.html > $ > Multia Home Page - Wayback MachineQ > http://web.archive.org/web/20041113173100/http://www.wei.com/multia/qshome.html  >  > Multia in the OpenVMS FAQ < > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/faq/vmsfaq_021.html#index_x_1488 > > > Multia Users Mailing List - List of Folders - Shaun ClohertyE > http://www.lx040-001.gsbme.unsw.edu.au/~shaunc/multia/multia-users/  > ( > Multia/UDB information - dreamtime.org" > http://www.dreamtime.org/multia/ > 1 > NetBSD/alpha: Multia Frequently Asked Questions 2 > http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/alpha/multiafaq.html > D > StarshipCorp - Multia Cases and Case Accessories - Wayback Machinek > http://web.archive.org/web/20040502164918/www.starshipcorp.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6  > : > StarshipCorp - Multia SCSI Accessories - Wayback Machinek > http://web.archive.org/web/20040502165936/www.starshipcorp.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7  > ; > StarshipCorp - Other Multia Accessories - Wayback Machine k > http://web.archive.org/web/20040502170804/www.starshipcorp.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=8  >  > The Multia info page! > http://membres.lycos.fr/multia/  > ) > The Multia info page : Mini-IDE install . > http://membres.lycos.fr/multia/miniide.html? > # > Universal Desktop Box - elric.com  > http://www.elric.com/UDB/  > 1 > Universal Desktop Box - mirror at dreamtime.org ( > http://www.dreamtime.org/multia/annex/ > A > Universal Desktop Box - Network Troubleshooting - dreamtime.org 4 > http://www.dreamtime.org/multia/annex/udb-net.html > 1 > Universal Desktop Box - Technical Specification ' > http://www.elric.com/UDB/udbspec.html  > * > Universal Desktop Box - The Inside Story( > http://www.elric.com/UDB/udbinsid.html > D > Universal Desktop Box - The Inside Story - mirror at dreamtime.org5 > http://www.dreamtime.org/multia/annex/udbinsid.html  > 9 > Universal Desktop Box - Troubleshooting - dreamtime.org 5 > http://www.dreamtime.org/multia/annex/udbtroub.html   C Dunno how you do it, Keith! You have a marvelous knack for internet 	 research!    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:30:11 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>   Subject: Re: My Multia Adventure0 Message-ID: <11bn2u21vkt3b35@corp.supernews.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:    > E > Dunno how you do it, Keith! You have a marvelous knack for internet  > research!  >   - I seriously doubt he does a search each time.   G He's probably got a database of such, which he's always adding to, and   can pull up things by topic.  @ That said, yes, it seems to be an impressive collection of data.  < Then again, perhaps he does just perform a search on Google.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:46:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> $ Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 EFI Console, Message-ID: <42BB7410.AB586111@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: I >   I don't doubt there are VAX users that would want newer features, but F > the majority of folks I've chatted with that are running VAX systems > want consistency more.    G Once VMS has been declared "legacy" within an organsation, then all new G applications are implemented onto a different platform. Those customers H keep VMS for exsiting applications which have not yet been ported to the
 new platform.   H Instead of being fatalistic about VAX, you should ask your customers whyF they are not upgrading the VAX systems with new versions/features, new applications etc.     G If you ever want to regain those VAX-VMS sites as profitable customers, ? you need to convince them to start adding more stuff to the VMS B infrastructure. As long as they keep on adding new applications toF different platforms, thsoe VAX-VMS customers are as good as lost to HP3 because they'll never buy new HP hardware/software.   F And right now, the lack of new features on VAX-VMS is not an incentive@ to upgrade. For instance, going from 7.2 to 7.3 doesn't give VAX? customers much that is new (and they lose stuff such as display K postcript, and must also spend time to undoe the login logo change etc. :-)   F >    In any event, there are no plans for an EM64T nor AMD64 nor IA-32 > native port for OpenVMS.    D And on june 24 2001, you would have said that there were no plans toG port VMS to that failed IA64 bloated architecture that Alpha would keep 	 ahead of.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2005 12:54:49 -0700 From: bill@wcschmidt.com5 Subject: Re: Problems reading CDROMs on an ALPHA DS10 C Message-ID: <1119556489.881289.186840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>     How was the disk mount on VMS  ?  G Even some of the earliest VMS versions that do support ISO-9660 require ; use of the additional MOUNT qualifier /MEDIA_FORMAT=ISO9660    Chris Blackburn wrote:K > Anyone ever encountered problems reading CDROMs on an ALPHA platform when  > the CDROM was  > originally produced on a PC ?  > ? > The CDROM is a single session ISO 9960 compliant disk and all - > files/directories appear to be correct when K > viewed on any PC. When viewed on the Alpha DS10 (using the internal CDROM  > device DQA0: whichK > is described as a CRD-8402B device) the directory structure appears to be  > corrupt with some files I > missing and some files referenced in more than one directory. Using the  > DIR/FILE_ID command you K > can see that each file entry in the directories references the exact same  > file.  > N > I have tried on other VMS boxes with different device types running the same > version of VMS but I getL > the same problem. The operating system version is currently OpenVMS 7.3-1. >  > Many thanks - Chris.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:50:31 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?= Message-ID: <RpqdnSOYD_sloSbfRVn-pg@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote:   ...       VMS is the lever  > that would sell Alphas.   H Well, Tru64 could sell a considerable number as well if HP were willing I to give it a future:  a lot of Tru64 customers who are planning to leave  8 have not yet done so and would appreciate not having to.  I But I rather doubt that HP has any significant future plans for VMS, let  A alone would rekindle any for Tru64.  Not part of their strategic  @ direction, you know - especially given how much difficulty HP's B enterprise segment is having pulling its weight (i.e., generating H profits commensurate with its personnel count).  You could observe that I this difficulty is a direct result of past blatant stupidity rather than  H anything intrinsic to product desirability, but that's not an easy case D to make convincingly at the new-CEO level:  cutting is just so much B easier (and produces so much more immediate results - short-term,  anyway) than building.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:55:01 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?= Message-ID: <QIOdnbjmEK1boCbfRVn-og@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote:   ...   G > Frankly, regardless of the conspiricy theories, I think that killing   > Alpha was all Compaq.   G Of course it was all Compaq, but it's really difficult to believe that  @ Carly wasn't aware of it given that she was actively discussing G purchasing the Compaq mess at the time.  And I wouldn't dismiss out of  F hand the theory that said purchase could have generated some concerns G even with Bush's anti-trust minions if it had included the acquisition  ? of a directly-competing hardware architecture - and hence that  < jettisoning Alpha before the fact helped smooth its passage.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:48:30 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?, Message-ID: <42BB666E.D61C399D@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:H > HP just doesn't seem to get the concept that when you chase a customer: > away, they rarely will move to another of your products.  H HP is a wintel commodity company. Loyalty isn't important, and customers< can switch wintel providers anytime they wish. Price counts.  D In this mindset, HP doesn't realise that real enterprise systems (as? opposed to wintel servers) are investments and custoemrs want a B trustable vendor with whom they can have a long term relationship.F Perhaps this is also changing if all vendors are moving to "commodity" stuff even for enterprise.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:52:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?, Message-ID: <42BB677A.8FB915F6@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:F > Frankly, regardless of the conspiricy theories, I think that killingI > Alpha was all Compaq.  They just didn't want to be in the CPU business, 6 > and when Intel pushed a bit, it was enough for them.    @ I think that Curly had made the decision to reverse the hopes ofE Pfeiffer to make Alpha more towards a commoodity chip that would have E provided the 64 bit solution today, which Intel was still years away. E First real tangible sign was Compaq allowing Windows on Alpha to die.   E However, my guess is that they had a more realistic plan to phase out B Alpha, but when Carly came in with the offer to rescue Comapq fromG oblivion, and more importantly, allow Curly to exit gracefully (instead B of having to admit he was incompetant and be ousted), Curly had noE problems accelerating the killing of alpha even if it was unrealistic H and terrible business practice. He didn't care since he knew he woudln't4 be staying long at Compaq after it was bought by HP.  6 and Carly much prefered having Curly do the dirty job.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:38:21 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?0 Message-ID: <11bn3daa9ph2248@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: >  > ...  >  >   VMS is the lever >  >> that would sell Alphas. >  > J > Well, Tru64 could sell a considerable number as well if HP were willing K > to give it a future:  a lot of Tru64 customers who are planning to leave  : > have not yet done so and would appreciate not having to. > K > But I rather doubt that HP has any significant future plans for VMS, let  C > alone would rekindle any for Tru64.  Not part of their strategic  B > direction, you know - especially given how much difficulty HP's D > enterprise segment is having pulling its weight (i.e., generating J > profits commensurate with its personnel count).  You could observe that K > this difficulty is a direct result of past blatant stupidity rather than  J > anything intrinsic to product desirability, but that's not an easy case F > to make convincingly at the new-CEO level:  cutting is just so much D > easier (and produces so much more immediate results - short-term,  > anyway) than building. >  > - bill  I I would think that if there are customers who are still on Alpha, either  I   VMS or Tru64, that would continue to spend money with HP, if given the  I opportunity, that HP could milk that cow rather easily.  Simply say that  H they will sell Alphas as long as customers will buy them, and they will ( at a minimum provide support for the OS.  E As for supporting Tru64, that could be an issue, if the reports some  E time ago about wholesale pink slips for the Tru64 engineers are true.   G Then again, what do I know about big business.  I'm just a dumb polock   from back in the woods.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:45:23 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?0 Message-ID: <11bn3qhm9scqs36@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: > H >>HP just doesn't seem to get the concept that when you chase a customer: >>away, they rarely will move to another of your products. >  > J > HP is a wintel commodity company. Loyalty isn't important, and customers> > can switch wintel providers anytime they wish. Price counts. > F > In this mindset, HP doesn't realise that real enterprise systems (asA > opposed to wintel servers) are investments and custoemrs want a D > trustable vendor with whom they can have a long term relationship.H > Perhaps this is also changing if all vendors are moving to "commodity" > stuff even for enterprise.  A I could understand this about Compaq.  They were completely a PC  I company.  But HP has been in the business since before the advent of the  H PC, and should have people who understand customers.  Perhaps they were # all fired, or left in exasperation.   C There are computer users that want/need a very comforting security  G blanket.  Almost immediate support when there are problems.  All kinds  I of hand holding.  And they are willing to pay quite well for such.  It's  G these very profitable relationships that HP seems to be spurning.  And  E for what, to get their ass kicked by Dell?  To be complete, I should   call them "No R&D Dell".   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:50:08 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?0 Message-ID: <11bn43f85ci0mdc@corp.supernews.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: >>-----Original Message-----1 >>From: Dave Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]   >>Sent: June 23, 2005 12:54 PM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com   >>Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha? >>! >>david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  >>9 >>>In article <11bjaa6l9fddbb4@corp.supernews.com>, Dave   >>& >>Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >>1 >>>>David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote: D >>>>As for the future, as others have said, there is no R&D on next @ >>>>generation CPUs.  Many VMS users could exist on the current  >> >>performance  >>D >>>>of EV6 and EV7, so Alpha would not be hurt by being bypassed in ? >>>>performance as much as more 'commodity' type of CPUs.  VMS   >> >>is the lever   >>> >>>>that would sell Alphas.  Note that there are people still  >> >>running VAXs.  >>9 >>>Unfortunately the time scales involved in porting and   >> >>testing on a new >>G >>>architecture means that such a port really needs to be starting now. < >>>Yes current Alpha customers can continue for a few years  >> >>more with existing >>7 >>>systems. However as other architectures increase in   >> >>performance against Alpha  >>< >>>over the next few years Application developers will take  >> >>advantage of and then  >>: >>>come to expect that performance in their new versions. = >>>Similarly the hard timescale for the last Alpha sale from   >> >>HP and when support  >>= >>>will end will inevitably also lead to vendors to consider   >> >>whether to support >>  >>>their next version to Alpha. ; >>>I suspect many application developers will have similar   >> >>feelings to those  >>< >>>expressed in this thread about Itanic. Hence support for  >> >>applications on Itanic   >> >>>may also disappear.: >>>(note. Even for those who do continue to produce their  >> >>application on Itanic  >>< >>>they may not produce it on Alpha even if the codebase is  >> >>the same because of  >>6 >>>the efforts involved in testing on both platforms). >>= >>Once again, a post that considers only running third party   >>applications. H >>  Maybe the vast majority do such.  I don't know.  However, there are F >>users of VMS that don't fit in this particular catagory.  For those H >>customers, there is considerable value in their applications, and for B >>many the goal is to be able to continue using their solution(s). >> >  >  > G > Yeah, the "build vs. buy" view is one of those never ending religious C > discussions that is very similar to the "outsource vs. in-source" H > discussions i.e. seldom is implementing only one approach what is bestG > for your business. The best answer is typically somewhere in between.   D There is some activity that is well defined.  Accounting.  Counting G beans, whatever.  Even things like wholesale distribution if you don't  G mind having your software dictate how you run your business.  However,  I how about the applications that run that custom production line for your  H products.  There can be product upgrades, which may require application  changes.  5 You're entirely correct about "somewhere in between".   I > While "buy" gets you off the shelf benefits, the challenge is that they I > almost always need to be customized to fit the specific requirements of H > the business. So, once you start down the customization road, you thenH > get into the "when do I stop customizing" mode and then you also startI > worrying about whether future upgrades will break your customizations.   > I > The "buy" approach typically also does not provide the flexibility that J > some companies need to meet their rapidly changing business requirements6 > and in some cases, external compliancy requirements. >   A > It is interesting to note that a number of large companies with I > outsourced environments have recently announced they are taking control  > of their IT back in-house.  B It didn't work, and the idiots that thought of it have been fired!  . > Not sure if this is a trend or just a spike. > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477  > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)  > 6 > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.     --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:42:31 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> Subject: Re: SAN & DFU+ Message-ID: <d9fac7$97d$1@news01.intel.com>    alex wrote: F > Is it possible to use DFU in combination with SAN, there seems to be5 > some problems according to atomic operations. Thanx  >   D      I think you'll have to be much more specific about the supposedD problems.  And do you mean DFG (Defrag) rather than DFU (Disk & File	 Utility)?   G      Our larger clusters all have SAN storage: ES40's with dual KGPSA's C for fibre-channel to dual Brocades (redundant/independent fabrics), > thence to multiple redundant pairs of HSG80's.  We use DFU forA ad hoc diagnostics (and a few regular monitors).  We use DFG on a 5 semi-regular basis.  There are no issues with either.   @      We DO NOT SHARE THE SAN WITH OTHER CLUSTERS OR OTHER O/S's!. Each SAN is dedicated to a single VMS cluster.   	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:48:57 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>6 Subject: Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generator/ Message-ID: <BEE0B499.FFFF%roktsci@comcast.net>   L > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --B_3202397340_3271727 Content-type: text/plain;  	charset="US-ASCII"  Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit   G On 6/23/05 6:19 AM, in article d9ecu0$6gb$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu, . "Chuck Aaron" <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> wrote:   > Group, > N > I need a complete OpenVMS system monitor tool, that will monitor CPU spikes, > usage and all else that willO > create log files and reports for security audit reviews. Any recommendations?  > O > Also, I need a strong password generator that will assign strong passwords to   > users as they are added to theO > systems or when they have their passwords changed. OpenVMS does not appear to  > have this ability. > Any recommendations? > 	 > Thanks, 
 > Chuck Aaron  > CERIS Purdue Univ. >  >    Chuck,    D I have already responded to your email you sent to me directly to myK personal account about the flexibility of the VMS password control, and how J to find out the specifics in the VMS guide to System Security. I hope thatJ helps.  Concerning monitoring  CPU spikes, the VMS MONITOR command will be useful. Try these out for size:    $MONITOR PROC/TOPCPU $MONITOR SYSTEM  $MONITOR CLUSTER $MONITOR MODES   3 All of these show CPU usage in one form or another. , $HELP MONITOR for mor specifics and options.   Jeff   --B_3202397340_3271727 Content-type: text/html; 	charset="US-ASCII" + Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable    <HTML> <HEAD>@ <TITLE>Re: System Monitor Tool &amp; Strong PW generator</TITLE> </HEAD>  <BODY>P <FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'>On 6/=M 23/05 6:19 AM, in article d9ecu0$6gb$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu, &quot;Chu= 9 ck Aaron&quot; &lt;caaron@ceris.purdue.edu&gt; wrote:<BR>  <BR>N </SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYL=! E=3D'font-size:12.0px'>Group,<BR>  <BR>L I need a complete OpenVMS system monitor tool, that will monitor CPU spikes=# , usage and all else that will <BR> L create log files and reports for security audit reviews. Any recommendation= s?<BR> <BR>L Also, I need a strong password generator that will assign strong passwords =& to users as they are added to the <BR>L systems or when they have their passwords changed. OpenVMS does not appear = to have this ability.<BR>  Any recommendations?<BR> <BR> Thanks,<BR>  Chuck Aaron<BR>  CERIS Purdue Univ.<BR> <BR> <BR>N </SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STY= LE=3D'font-size:12.0px'><BR> Chuck, <BR>  <BR>L I have already responded to your email you sent to me directly to my person=M al account about the flexibility of the VMS password control, and how to fin= M d out the specifics in the VMS guide to System Security. I hope that helps. = M &nbsp;Concerning monitoring &nbsp;CPU spikes, the VMS MONITOR command will b= % e useful. Try these out for size:<BR>  <BR> $MONITOR PROC/TOPCPU<BR> $MONITOR SYSTEM<BR>  $MONITOR CLUSTER<BR> $MONITOR MODES<BR>
 &nbsp;<BR>7 All of these show CPU usage in one form or another.<BR> 0 $HELP MONITOR for mor specifics and options.<BR> <BR> Jeff</SPAN></FONT> </BODY>  </HTML>      --B_3202397340_3271727--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:24:54 +0200 . From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@siol.net>6 Subject: Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generator2 Message-ID: <EOMue.12910$F6.2785674@news.siol.net>   "Chuck Aaron" Group,L I need a complete OpenVMS system monitor tool, that will monitor CPU spikes,L usage and all else that will create log files and reports for security auditK reviews. Any recommendations? T4 is a good candidate but you must play with J it to get desired results. And it is a part of the OS distribution (you'll7 find it on V7.3-2 system disk on SYS$ETC). Best, Gorazd    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:27:28 +0200 . From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@siol.net>6 Subject: Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generator2 Message-ID: <2RMue.12911$F6.2786044@news.siol.net>   >"Chuck Aaron" >Group, F > I need a complete OpenVMS system monitor tool, that will monitor CPUE spikes, usage and all else that will create log files and reports for , security audit reviews. Any recommendations?  K T4 is a good candidate. You will find it on SYS$ETC (OVMS 7.3-2) or you can * download it from the web. V4 is out there.   Best, Gorazd   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jun 2005 22:12:27 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download6 Message-ID: <Xns967F262AAF99dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>  2 %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote in 9 news:1119547413.927899.39870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com    > Hello @ > The following VAX software is available for download using ftp  L Please take this down.  I really don't think it is a good idea to do this.  F You may have a license to use the software, but you don't have one to E distribute it.  I'm well aware that HP employees turn a blind eye to  H sharing amongst friends, and even just newsgroup aquaintances.  However B public access is something HP may have to pursue to protect their 
 copyright.     Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:55:22 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download0 Message-ID: <BEE0B61A.10002%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 6/23/05 10:23 AM, in article 5 1119547413.927899.39870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, < "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" <tomarsin2015@comcast.net> wrote:   > Hello @ > The following VAX software is available for download using ftp > BASIC V3.9 > C V6.4
 > C++ V5.6
 > COBOL V5.7A 
 > FMS V2.4 > UCX V4.2 AND V5.3  > DW-MOTIF V1.2-6  > FORTRAN V6.6
 > PASCAL V5.8 H > These are from the December 2004/Q4 CDL. I will be adding more as timeH > permits. Right now the software can only be access by ftp. The addressB > is 68.35.167.136 and the username is vaxsoftware. No password isI > needed. If there is a layered product you need then let me know. I have C > cds going back to 92 so if its a HP VAX layered product more then  > likely I have it. 	 > phillip  >   D Unless you have entered into a special agreement with HP, this is inK violation of the standard software agreements, even if you have a "Right to L Copy". If you are lucky you may just get a "Cease and desist" slap, at worstI HP could really come down on you hard, and seize your equipment or worse.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:11:56 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download+ Message-ID: <42BB6BEB.3134EF45@comcast.net>   ! "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" wrote:  >  > Hello @ > The following VAX software is available for download using ftp > BASIC V3.9 > C V6.4
 > C++ V5.6
 > COBOL V5.7A 
 > FMS V2.4 > UCX V4.2 AND V5.3  > DW-MOTIF V1.2-6  > FORTRAN V6.6
 > PASCAL V5.8 H > These are from the December 2004/Q4 CDL. I will be adding more as timeH > permits. Right now the software can only be access by ftp. The addressB > is 68.35.167.136 and the username is vaxsoftware. No password isI > needed. If there is a layered product you need then let me know. I have C > cds going back to 92 so if its a HP VAX layered product more then  > likely I have it.   E Well, that's not how I'd have done it, but perhaps forgiveness may be  easier to get than permission.  F Then again, the way these are served (InterHose Exploder chokes on theG NLST format), it may be just as well that actually getting any of these G files will be slightly less trivial than restoring their RMS attributes  afterwards.   H If it was me, I'd leak info via the "grape vine" that goodies can be hadG by applying old rules of naming VMSINSTAL kits, or some such and trying C different "hidden" directories until you find something that works.   E Then again, unless you're paying for a static IP address, that may be  subject to change:   $ mult nslo 68.35.167.136  Server:  LOCALHOST Address:  127.0.0.1   / Name:    bgp01380673bgs.svaley01.nm.comcast.net  Address:  68.35.167.136    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:27:40 -0400 > From: "Chris Moore" <paynoattentionto@themanbehindthe.curtain>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download: Message-ID: <V4Lue.13326$X57.635636@news20.bellglobal.com>  G Generous though seriously unwise; see the following from the HP License 4 Agreement, specifically the last sentence in Part b.     GENERAL LICENSE TERMS G a. Software is owned and copyrighted by HP or by third party suppliers. K Customer's Software License confers no title or ownership and is not a sale A of any rights in the Software. Third party suppliers are intended F beneficiaries under this Agreement and may protect their rights in theH Software directly against the Customer in the event of any infringement.  F b. Customer must reproduce all copyright notices and other proprietaryA legends in or on the original Software on all permitted copies or J adaptations. You may not remove from the Software, or alter, any of the HPK trademarks, trade names, logos, patent or copyright notices or markings, or L add any other notices or markings to the Software. Customer may not copy the0 Software onto any public or distributed network.  1 Take it down, or bear the potential consequences.  Chris   + <tomarsin2015@comcast.net> wrote in message < news:1119547413.927899.39870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > Hello @ > The following VAX software is available for download using ftp > BASIC V3.9 > C V6.4
 > C++ V5.6
 > COBOL V5.7A 
 > FMS V2.4 > UCX V4.2 AND V5.3  > DW-MOTIF V1.2-6  > FORTRAN V6.6
 > PASCAL V5.8 H > These are from the December 2004/Q4 CDL. I will be adding more as timeH > permits. Right now the software can only be access by ftp. The addressB > is 68.35.167.136 and the username is vaxsoftware. No password isI > needed. If there is a layered product you need then let me know. I have C > cds going back to 92 so if its a HP VAX layered product more then  > likely I have it. 	 > phillip  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:58:01 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download, Message-ID: <42BB84BE.8FD43B23@teksavvy.com>   Jeff Cameron wrote: F > Unless you have entered into a special agreement with HP, this is inM > violation of the standard software agreements, even if you have a "Right to N > Copy". If you are lucky you may just get a "Cease and desist" slap, at worstK > HP could really come down on you hard, and seize your equipment or worse.   & In all likelyhood, HP wouldn't notice.  G If some folks have been trying to get this dossier to move forwards for D years, perhaps this is what it takes to let VMS management know that7 this is an important issue and raise its priority some.   C And if unofficial distribution starts, perhaps HP will see value in @ allowing one "official" hobbyist distribution that has the right: controls to prevent abuse and also prevent loss of revenu.  G Or perhaps we could start digging a tunnel to the basement of ZKO, take F pictures of the team who is porting VMS to the 8086 and then blackmailC HP: give us distribution for hobbyists, or we reveal the proof that > you're porting VMS to the 8086 :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 01:02:30 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download0 Message-ID: <11bn4qm7j2pql8e@corp.supernews.com>   tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:  > Hello @ > The following VAX software is available for download using ftp > BASIC V3.9 > C V6.4
 > C++ V5.6
 > COBOL V5.7A 
 > FMS V2.4 > UCX V4.2 AND V5.3  > DW-MOTIF V1.2-6  > FORTRAN V6.6
 > PASCAL V5.8 H > These are from the December 2004/Q4 CDL. I will be adding more as timeH > permits. Right now the software can only be access by ftp. The addressB > is 68.35.167.136 and the username is vaxsoftware. No password isI > needed. If there is a layered product you need then let me know. I have C > cds going back to 92 so if its a HP VAX layered product more then  > likely I have it. 	 > phillip  >   C As other have said, you're opening yourself up to some potentially   serious legal action by HP.   G The manner in which you've announced it, HP can't help but notice, and  + will have to act to protect their property.   D I'd suggest just as publically announcing that you've withdrawn the E software.  If you do make it available in a much less public manner,  0 that's hopefully between you and the receipient.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 05:17:22 GMT  From: Opcom <eccm@swbell.net> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download; Message-ID: <CHMue.1422$Lj2.272@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>   A There is a VMS dist. for VAX and Alpha hobbyists, or used to be,  @ which could be bought from Montagar Software. This was even one ; of the answers given by to a hobbyist by "ask the wizard".  = Another answer was to 'borrow' a dist from a friend. Posting  : these 'warez' on the internet is however a definite no-no.  = Now, is that the real 8086, or some crummy pentuim that it's  @ secretly being ported to? I would like to get some more use out ? of those old IBM PC-XTs. Hmm.. VMS in 640K on a 16 bit machine  , with a 20MB HDD. I'd pay a buck to see that!   Patrick Jankowiak        JF Mezei wrote:    > Jeff Cameron wrote:  > F >>Unless you have entered into a special agreement with HP, this is inM >>violation of the standard software agreements, even if you have a "Right to N >>Copy". If you are lucky you may just get a "Cease and desist" slap, at worstK >>HP could really come down on you hard, and seize your equipment or worse.  >  > ( > In all likelyhood, HP wouldn't notice. > I > If some folks have been trying to get this dossier to move forwards for F > years, perhaps this is what it takes to let VMS management know that9 > this is an important issue and raise its priority some.  > E > And if unofficial distribution starts, perhaps HP will see value in B > allowing one "official" hobbyist distribution that has the right< > controls to prevent abuse and also prevent loss of revenu. > I > Or perhaps we could start digging a tunnel to the basement of ZKO, take H > pictures of the team who is porting VMS to the 8086 and then blackmailE > HP: give us distribution for hobbyists, or we reveal the proof that @ > you're porting VMS to the 8086 :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)     --  
 rest begards,  Patrick Jankowiak   6   - reply to  r e c y c l e r AT s w b e l l DOT n e t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:03:12 +0100 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> ) Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe 8 Message-ID: <r7ulb11qvoqob119hs43gb9lqlgi9ol1h0@4ax.com>  I On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:32:23 GMT, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote:   F >As for the INDEX instrunction, the VAX Pascal compiler uses it a TON.  K I'm fairly certain the Fortran compiler uses it heavily for array indexing, J at least when bounds checking is on.  Indeed, I'd maybe even wager a small? amount it was included in the instruction set for that purpose.    --  2 Military intelligence is a contradiction in terms.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:57:34 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ) Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe ( Message-ID: <opsst3581mzgicya@hyrrokkin>  0 On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:03:12 +0100, John Laird  # <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote:   K > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:32:23 GMT, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote:  > H >> As for the INDEX instrunction, the VAX Pascal compiler uses it a TON. > E > I'm fairly certain the Fortran compiler uses it heavily for array    > indexing, H > at least when bounds checking is on.  Indeed, I'd maybe even wager a   > small A > amount it was included in the instruction set for that purpose.  > H The VAX Architecture handbook (1981) gives three examples in Cobol, PL/IF and Fortan.  It was included because it is a useful construct in those
 languages.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:37:24 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>) Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe 2 Message-ID: <UbEue.7572$ja7.4241@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:] > In article <bCAue.7549$T77.1079@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:  > M >>I don't think MOVCs were ever emulated.  CMPCs, MOVTUC, MATCHC, etc. were.	  >  > G >    When I saw the performance issue, I looked it up.  I don't have my D >    subsetting reference handy but I'm pretty sure MOVCx was in theG >    same subset as CMPC, MOVTx, ...  And the rule was no splitting up	  >    a defined subset. >   D According to the DEC STD 032 (VAX Architecture Standard) Rev J 1989:  I The base instruction group which all VAX processors announced after 1986  F must implement include MOVC3, MOVC5, CMPC3, CMPC5, LOCC, SKPC, SPANC, 
 and SCANC.  A There are two "application-extension" groups that must either be  " implemented or omitted as a group.  I Group 1, packed decimal (MOVP, CMPP3, CMPP4, ADDP4, ADDP6, SUBP4, SUBP6,  7 CVTLP, CVTPL, CVTPT, CVTTP, CVTSP, ASHP, MULP and DIVP.   H Group 2, extendec accuracy with 29 H-floating and octaword instructions.  I There then are emulated-only groups where a processor can pick or choose  G which instructions to implement or emulation on a per-instruction basis   B - Five string instructions: MATCHC, MOVTC, MOVTUC, CRC, and EDITPC  F - Twelve floating-point instructions: ACB{F,D,G,H}, EMOD{F,D,G,H] and 
 POLY{F,D,G,H}     D Now looking back through the edit history, I do some comments about E "MicroVAX" subsets in the Rev 6 1983 and Rev D 1985 timeframe, but I  / don't have anything but Rev J in my possession.   F Given the wording "all VAX processors announced after 1986" certainly > lets me believe that early MicroVAXen (especially MicroVAX I)  implemented fewer.   --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2005 16:08:12 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe 3 Message-ID: <tn7cgcGJy3fc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <r7ulb11qvoqob119hs43gb9lqlgi9ol1h0@4ax.com>, John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:K > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:32:23 GMT, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote:  > G >>As for the INDEX instrunction, the VAX Pascal compiler uses it a TON.  > M > I'm fairly certain the Fortran compiler uses it heavily for array indexing, L > at least when bounds checking is on.  Indeed, I'd maybe even wager a smallA > amount it was included in the instruction set for that purpose.   B    I checked the output of the Fortran compiler back when I had myF    second 11/780 and had learned Macro-32.  Lots of array indexing, no    INDEX instructions.  A    I beleive it was included in the instruction set to make array E    indexing easier.  It just wasn't generated by the compiler because     it ran slower.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2005 13:14:52 -0700/ From: "Keith Lewis" <spud_g00@thundermaker.net> . Subject: Re: VMS Memory Management vs. others'C Message-ID: <1119557692.710999.144730@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   ; It's in the name -- VMS stands for "Virtual Memory System".   ? Proactive memory reclamation was introduced around V6, I think.   F One serious strength which competing OS's don't have is the ability toC tune memory use on a per-process basis.  You can set parameters for - "working set" and for maximum virtual memory.   F Memory has become so cheap it almost doesn't matter any more, but it's still an impressive design.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.350 ************************