1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 25 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 352       Contents:P Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale, Itanic screaP Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale, Itanic screaP Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale, Itanic screaP Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale,Itanic scream* Connecting to Xerox Phaser 7750 with DCPS? CTRL-T - what's the T? Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? DCL enhancement more verb/FTP ! Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP ! Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP  Re: How to FTP with UCX 3.3? KZPBA and AlphaServer 300  Re: My Multia Adventure + Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC + Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC + Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC + Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC  Re: OT: vms keyboard, Re: Problems reading CDROMs on an ALPHA DS10, Re: Problems reading CDROMs on an ALPHA DS10 Re: Reading VMS disks  Re: rename of system disks Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: State of the art?  Re: State of the art?  Re: State of the art?  Re: State of the art?  Re: State of the art?  Re: State of the art?  Re: State of the art?  Re: State of the art?  Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report% Re: UAF> /ACCOUNT What's it used for?  Updated VMS information ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download  Web Services Integration Kit Wget 1.9.1d exists.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 13:32:52 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com Y Subject: Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale, Itanic screa C Message-ID: <1119645172.355087.307520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 Gentlemen,  D I think that there are other newsgroups more suited for this kind of@ discussion and name calling.  VMS has room for everything except bigotry  Warm Regards as always,  Sue    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 14:26:07 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com Y Subject: Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale, Itanic screa C Message-ID: <1119648367.018996.101400@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E Well JF as I mentioned in a previous posting I love all the true blue B VMS folks. And all the VMS folks I know usually have room in theirA hearts and their heads for just about everyone and their opinions ! without name calling and bigotry.  Sue    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 16:38:00 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale, Itanic screa 3 Message-ID: <b4UZbQio68Dc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <1119645172.355087.307520@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com writes:  > Gentlemen, > F > I think that there are other newsgroups more suited for this kind ofB > discussion and name calling.  VMS has room for everything except	 > bigotry   B    Sorry, Sue.  Although I do try not to feed the trolls this is a?    public forum and this kind of stuff has gone on so long here C    that I'm afraid the only practical thing to do is killfile this  	    stuff.   H    At least we haven't seen a rekindling of the VMS vs. UNIX "religious"    wars here in a while.   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2005 19:31:20 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>Y Subject: Re: - Re: OT: Why does Bob post? ( was Re: Intel neuters M ontvale,Itanic scream 7 Message-ID: <Xns967FDB12DBDD5dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   7 %NEWS-I-NEWMSG,  wrote in news:1119621777.890298.216690  @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com    My, but you are entertaining.   0 Here's a quote to make you pop a blood vessel...  J Three quarters of the American population literally believes in religious I miracles.  The numbers who believe in the devil, in resurrection, in God  H doing this and that - it's astonishing. These numbers aren't duplicated L anywhere else in the industrial world. You'd have to maybe go to mosques in K Iran or do a poll among old ladies in Sicily to get numbers like this. Yet  0 this is the American population. -- Noam Chomsky  ! Glad to not be in a minority Bob?      Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:44:21 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)3 Subject: Connecting to Xerox Phaser 7750 with DCPS? 6 Message-ID: <00A45C64.6F0F856C@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  	 VMSers --    DS20E, (Open)VMS 7.3-2 DCPS  I Users have just rolled in Xerox Phaser 7750 and 7550; I've previously had  Digital/HP printers to support.   : I see that 7750 is listed in the DCPS 2.4 SPD; 7550 isn't.  8 (1) What's the magic incantation to connect to the 7750?J     IP_RawTCP/(ipaddress):9100    produces a queue that starts but doesn'tF     work; a print job eventually times out with "Printer is not ready"  ; (2) Does the 7550 work as an unsupported printer with DCPS?    Thanks,    -- Alan    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 11:50:51 -0700 From: thomford@gmail.com Subject: CTRL-T - what's the T? C Message-ID: <1119639051.572351.271890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>     Does the 'T' stand for anything?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:02:15 -0400 - From: "NewsReader" <martyoconnor@hotmail.com> # Subject: Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? + Message-ID: <3i3731Fjn1kaU1@individual.net>   & <thomford@gmail.com> wrote in message = news:1119639051.572351.271890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... " > Does the 'T' stand for anything?   Probably "terminal"    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:59:50 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> # Subject: Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? 7 Message-ID: <8660a3a105062413595671a063@mail.gmail.com>   8 On 6/24/05, NewsReader <martyoconnor@hotmail.com> wrote: >=20' > <thomford@gmail.com> wrote in message ? > news:1119639051.572351.271890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... $ > > Does the 'T' stand for anything? >=20 > Probably "terminal"  >=20 >=20 >=20  ; Trouble and that starts with T and that rhymes with pool...   ' I always thought it was "time", myself.    WWWebb       --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 16:28:45 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? 3 Message-ID: <uv3LXVTllQRR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <1119639051.572351.271890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, thomford@gmail.com writes:" > Does the 'T' stand for anything? >   F   Mnemonic for time.  Something that lots of DEC OS's have provided in   response to control-T.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:40:56 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net># Subject: Re: CTRL-T - what's the T? 0 Message-ID: <BEE22058.10105%roktsci@comcast.net>  J On 6/24/05 1:02 PM, in article 3i3731Fjn1kaU1@individual.net, "NewsReader"! <martyoconnor@hotmail.com> wrote:    > ' > <thomford@gmail.com> wrote in message ? > news:1119639051.572351.271890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... # >> Does the 'T' stand for anything?  >  > Probably "terminal"  >  > J When you press and hold the Control Key it merely forces bit 6 to zero, SoB when they needed to pick control characters for sending interruptsJ (Control-C, Control-Y, and Control-T) they had to look at all of the ASCIII codes from X'00' to X'1F' to see which ones they could use that would not J interfere with codes that were already used in the ANSI terminal standard.  J Control-C is ETX (End of Text) made obsolete when Teletypes were outgrown.C Control-Y is EM  (End of Medium) also obsolete for the same reason. E Control-T was available, as it was undefined Device Control number 4.   & So the "T" doesn't stand for anything.   Jeff   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:59:53 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> & Subject: DCL enhancement more verb/FTPD Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506241757320.1028@localhost.localdomain>  F We have COPY/FTP and DIRECTORY/FTP, which Hoff keeps recommending.  I  have been using them a lot.   - Could we also have DELETE/FTP and RENAME/FTP?    Just a thought ....    --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:16:07 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP+ Message-ID: <42BCBE67.38020DAD@comcast.net>    Rob Brown wrote: > G > We have COPY/FTP and DIRECTORY/FTP, which Hoff keeps recommending.  I  > have been using them a lot.  > / > Could we also have DELETE/FTP and RENAME/FTP?  >  > Just a thought ....   D To speak the plain truth, what we *REALLY* need is a FAL service forC TCP/IP and changes to the underlying infrastructure to handle that.    TCPIP$FAL anyone?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:38:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP, Message-ID: <42BCC3B2.86C7D21F@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: F > To speak the plain truth, what we *REALLY* need is a FAL service forE > TCP/IP and changes to the underlying infrastructure to handle that.     E FAL ? Perhaps update the file system to understand URL specifications G and call the right shareable image to handle file access to those URLs.   I eg: copy ftp:host.chocolate.com"user pass"/dir1/dir2/file.ext  []file.ext   S perhaps for FTP they could have ftpA for ascii and ftp or ftpI for image transfers.   9 you could also support HTTP: requests for read operations     G what would REALLY be needed is the ability to have f$search work on ftp E directories just like it can work on decnet or decnet/sna directories    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 11:14:47 -0700/ From: "joerojas@gmail.com" <joerojas@gmail.com> % Subject: Re: How to FTP with UCX 3.3? C Message-ID: <1119636887.882230.103230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   A So does that mean if I can get a hub/switch with both connections E (thinkwire and RJ45) I can just daisy chain from my last DecServer to D the hub/switch and have the hub/switch uplink to our existing 10/100 network?   Thanks!    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:03:03 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> " Subject: KZPBA and AlphaServer 3007 Message-ID: <8660a3a10506241103569b7a97@mail.gmail.com>   F What I'm trying to do is to get this guy to see two BA356 shelves with' 70-31490-01 personality modules in 'em.   E I've got bus jumpers on the BA356 backplanes where they're s'posed to ? be, and I've got the first three switches on the second shelf's E personality module flipped, but I just don't seem to have the correct C combination of everything to get the system to see anything besides 
 the KZPBA.  * I've even set it to Fast-10 with eeromcfg.  ) Any pointers will be greatly appreciated.    --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:07:54 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: My Multia Adventure+ Message-ID: <42BCBC7A.A0BA9C7F@comcast.net>    jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote:  > H > > As I mentioned in another post, I acquired a couple of Alpha MultiasK > > recently. One of them has an external SCSI connector, but both are only  > > the 150MHz(?) variety. > B > Alpha UDBs came in 166MHz fixed CPU, 166MHz socketed, and 233MHzG > socketed.  The fixed CPU had a fixed cache; I think the socketed ones ' > came with socketed/upgradeable cache.   / Haven't opened one up yet. Maybe this summer...   H > I ran VMS on a UDB for a while using an external cabinet with one RZ28H > disk and one CDROM; worked fine.  Its the internal scsi units you needH > to be careful of; even with a slow disk in them they run very hot.  MyH > solution was to purchase a slot cover with an adapter that went from aG > 50-pin IDC (standard internal narrow SCSI) inside to an HD50 external 7 > socket; that converted the internal SCSI to external.  > E > Can't help at all with your VMS installation methods; I never tried  > that.   F That part actually worked quite swimmingly. I'll add the documentationD of the procedure to my Multia page sometime this season as schedulesG allow. I think I've figured out how to convert the Multia boot diskette  into a .PCSI kit. We'll see...  A > Be aware that a UDB with a low or dead battery can appear to be 4 > broken and mafunction in various interesting ways.  ( How 'bout seeing this via the COM port:     ISA table corrupt! Initializing!   Poor puppy is sick...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 12:18:44 -0700 From: jtpryan@gmail.com 4 Subject: Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PCC Message-ID: <1119640724.750922.195630@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   D Where are you?  I work in Southboro, MA and live in Milford, NH.  If> you want to contact me at ryan-nospam-@jimryan.com (remove theF "nospam"), I can give you my address to mail them, I can reimburse you
 for shipping.   
 Thanks a lot,  Jim    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:48:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC, Message-ID: <42BC71AC.62300AEB@teksavvy.com>   jtpryan@gmail.com wrote: > F > Where are you?  I work in Southboro, MA and live in Milford, NH.  If@ > you want to contact me at ryan-nospam-@jimryan.com (remove theH > "nospam"), I can give you my address to mail them, I can reimburse you > for shipping.     G This is my last remaining copy of teamlinks so I'd rather not part with F it.  It installs from "A:" drive, so if I shiop it to you via FTP etc,C could you create your own diskettes ? (10 if I remember correctly).   H It will be a LOT of work for you to process those files if you have 5000H on a PC, unless you buy both Tony Redmond's books on Teamlinks (if stillF available) which provide documentation on how to write PC applications that hook into teamlinks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:01:28 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>4 Subject: Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC+ Message-ID: <42BCBAF8.242C99FB@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > jtpryan@gmail.com wrote: > > H > > Where are you?  I work in Southboro, MA and live in Milford, NH.  IfB > > you want to contact me at ryan-nospam-@jimryan.com (remove theJ > > "nospam"), I can give you my address to mail them, I can reimburse you > > for shipping.  > I > This is my last remaining copy of teamlinks so I'd rather not part with H > it.  It installs from "A:" drive, so if I shiop it to you via FTP etc,E > could you create your own diskettes ? (10 if I remember correctly).   0 Do you have a VMS machine with a diskette drive?   $! Make a diskette image $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOASSIST DVA0: $ COPY DVA0: DK1.IMGE $! The COPY will terminate with an error, but the file will be intact  $ DISM DVA0:   $! Copy diskette image to media  $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOASSI DVA0: $ COPY DK1.IMG DVA0: $ DISM DVA0:   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:22:42 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)4 Subject: Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC2 Message-ID: <05062421224207_20200298@antinode.org>  2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>   > $! Make a diskette image  > $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOASSIST DVA0: > $ COPY DVA0: DK1.IMGG > $! The COPY will terminate with an error, but the file will be intact  > $ DISM DVA0: > ! > $! Copy diskette image to media  > $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOASSI DVA0: > $ COPY DK1.IMG DVA0: > $ DISM DVA0:    ;    I prefer BACKUP /PHYSICAL.  No unsightly error messages.   - alp $ mount /noassist /foreign /nowrite dva0: 7 alp $ backup /physical /verify dva0: flop.bup /save_set 1 %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification pass  alp $ dismount dva0:  $ alp $ mount /noassist /foreign dva0:7 alp $ backup /physical /verify flop.bup /save_set dva0: 1 %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification pass  alp $ dismount dva0:  @    On occasion, it can also pay to remember INITIALIZE /DENSITY.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:10:30 +0200 3 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com>  Subject: Re: OT: vms keyboard = Message-ID: <42bc68b6$0$67262$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    skearney@accessbee.com wrote:  > Dr. Dweeb wrote:  >> skearney@accessbee.com wrote:! >>> skearney@accessbee.com wrote:  >>>> William Webb wrote:; >>>>> On 19 Jun 2005 20:53:38 -0700, skearney@accessbee.com % >>>>> <skearney@accessbee.com> wrote: H >>>>>> The subject of the Dvorak keyboard has come up half a dozen times< >>>>>> in this group.  While Keytweak may be irrelevant, theD >>>>>> transposition dfjk with etni will increase the amount of text6 >>>>>> typed from these four home keys by almost 500%. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Aset keyboardG >>>>>> It has been said that the most common letters were taken off the H >>>>>> home row of the first typewriter keyboard to slow down the typist >>>>>> and prevent jamming. C >>>>>> On a Dvorak keyboard almost sixty percent of average text is E >>>>>> typed from the home keys.  Transposing the letters 'etni' with G >>>>>> 'dfjk' would put more than 55% of text on the home keys, up from E >>>>>> only 26% on the qwerty layout.  Thats more than twice the text & >>>>>> typed without lifting a finger. >>>>>>G >>>>>> The change is quite pleasant and easy to learn.  I hope you will  >>>>>> pass this on. >>>>>>G >>>>>> To put e, t, n and i back where they belong, there is a keyboard D >>>>>> remapping program that is free, downloads quickly and is veryD >>>>>> easy to use.  I am typing this post on a keyboard remapped to> >>>>>> the 'etni' transposition layout.  The program is calledA >>>>>> 'Keytweak 2.11' and can be googled up by that name.  It is ; >>>>>> available from several sites, including PC magazine.  >>>>>>9 >>>>>> 1)  After you have loaded the program click start. E >>>>>> 2)  Click the "KeyTweak" icon and a graphic of a keyboard will C >>>>>> appear. 3)  Click the "Full Teach Mode" at the bottom of the @ >>>>>> screen. 4)  A box will appear.  Click "Begin Teach Mode".G >>>>>> 5)  Press the key you want to reassign, then the key you want it * >>>>>> reassigned to, in this case D to E.' >>>>>> 6)  Click "Remap Key#1 to Key#2" D >>>>>> 7)  The box will disappear and the scancodes of the keys willB >>>>>> appear in the "Pending Changes" window at the bottom right.A >>>>>> 8)  Follow the same procedure (from 3) for E to D, and the  >>>>>> remaining six remaps.F >>>>>> 9)  Click "Apply" and you will be asked if you want to turn off) >>>>>> the computer to apply the changes. E >>>>>>     At the top there is also a clickable "Restore Defaults" to ( >>>>>> give you back your qwerty layout.H >>>>>>     I was able to remap in under three minutes and restore qwerty4 >>>>>> in thirty seconds, not including the restart. >>>>>>F >>>>>> You can try out the sample lines of text below to discover that6 >>>>>> your fingers already know where etni should go. >>>>>>3 >>>>>> nineteen lean little saints settle in a nest 3 >>>>>> jkjdfddj ldaj lkffld sakjfs sdffld kj a jdsf  >>>>>>. >>>>>> an alien eats an ant antenna in atlanta. >>>>>> aj alkdj dafs aj ajf ajfdjja kj aflajfa >>>>>>3 >>>>>> elite sense entails a siesta in a satin seat 3 >>>>>> dlkfd sdjsd djfakls a skdsfa kj a safkj sdaf  >>>>>>& >>>>>> a stain is seen at a linen sale& >>>>>> a sfakj ks sddj af a lkjdj sald >>>>>>2 >>>>>> a latent latin talent tast tests in seattle2 >>>>>> a lafdjf lafkj faldjf fasf fdsfs kj sdaffld >>>>>>% >>>>>> insane santa sails in sea salt % >>>>>> kjsajd sajfa sakls kj sda salf  >>>>>> >>>>>> Many thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> Looks like ROT-13 to me. >>>>>  >>>>> WWWebb >>>>>  >>>>> --= >>>>> NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical ! >>>>> VMS-related correspondence. E >>>>> All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request B >>>>> for services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at) >>>>> http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/  >>>>E >>>>     AFAIK, the only thing that these letter swaps have in common C >>>> with rot-13 is that ed becomes de.  The 'etni' code is easy to E >>>> decipher if you let your fingers do the walking.  It is a decent F >>>> way to find a post on google.  Thanks for your reply, Mr. Wkllkam
 >>>> wdbb. >>> E >>>    I goofed, er becomes re in rot13, e becoming d would be rot25.  >>> G >>>    Kf's tujjey, buf K caj fype abouf 40 wpm buf kt somdojd comds up / >>> bdhkje md, my fypkjg *loois* lkid ROF-13...  >>> & >>>    Fhajks tor your posf, Mr. Wdbb. >>H >> IIRC (and I may be way way off here), the orginal "tests" proving the> >> efiicacy of the dvorak vs. qwerty layout were performed and@ >> monitored by a company/individual who had a very large vested> >> interest in the result and the actual results were far from> >> conclusive, as distinct from the report which was of courseG >> glowingly in favour of dvorak.  I seem to recall having read this at 5 >> some urban legend site some time in the deep past.  >> >> Dr. Dweeb > G >    Apparently, August Dvorak himself was involved in the testing, and = > his claims of 15%+ increase in typing speed have never been D > reproduced, the definitive article is 'The parable of the keys' byD > Liebowitz and Margolis.  However there is some evidence that fewerD > typing mistakes are made when typing simple words and there may be  > some relief from RSI symptoms.B >    The problem is that almost everyone has some familiarity withD > qwerty so the Dvorak layout comes with a built in disadvatage.  ItF > would be interesting to find out if by keeping the letters under theE > same fingers, there might be a marginal improvement in typing speed  > and accuracy.   , So my memory had not gone completely bad :-)   Dweeb    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:24:56 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>5 Subject: Re: Problems reading CDROMs on an ALPHA DS10 2 Message-ID: <c6Zue.7645$7R7.2156@news.cpqcorp.net>   Chris Blackburn wrote:K > Anyone ever encountered problems reading CDROMs on an ALPHA platform when - > the CDROM was originally produced on a PC ?   D    There are potential problems with CD-R and CD-RW media access on H CD-ROM devices, and particularly involving older CD-ROM devices.  (CD-R I and CD-RW provide comparatively marginal reflectivity when compared with  I pressed media, and older drives might not correctly or reliably read the  F newer photochemical media.  Older CD-ROM drives can and often do have H problems -- the RRD42 drive, for instance, has seen problems reading at F least some of the CD-R and CD-RW media on the market.  If this is the @ root problem here, do try testing different recording media for H compatibility, and do consider replacing any ancient optical drive with   a somewhat less-ancient  model.)  F    As for the usual problem with reading Microsoft Windows or various H other platforms on OpenVMS, it is because the volume structure selected G for the CD-R or CD-RW includes the Red Rock or Joliet extensions.  The  G OpenVMS F11C/D file system support for ISO-9660 does not provide these   particular extensions.  G    It is also possible that the media mastering tool has committed one  F or more errors in the generation of the volume structure, the classic D example here being a failure to provide the 8.3 filename within the F created ISO-9660 volume structure.  (Some tools implicitly assume the E target platform supports Joliet, and don't generate the parallel 8.3  
 filename.)  E    As for the usual discussions around generating CD-R, CD-RW DVD+R,  I DVD+RW and other such media directly on OpenVMS, do remember to skim the  ' related information in the OpenVMS FAQ.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 17:33:08 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 5 Subject: Re: Problems reading CDROMs on an ALPHA DS10 3 Message-ID: <bica15j8iFjb@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <d9ectb$3ao$1@rdel.co.uk>, "Chris Blackburn" <chris.blackburn@uk.thalesgroup.com> writes:K > Anyone ever encountered problems reading CDROMs on an ALPHA platform when  > the CDROM was  > originally produced on a PC ?   ' Many times.  In developing the tool at:   " 	http://ljk.com/ljk/ljk_cdrom.html  B I am not sure I ever found an allegedly 9660 volume from a PC that _was_ correct.   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2005 19:38:55 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> Subject: Re: Reading VMS disks7 Message-ID: <Xns967FDC5C9BBB7dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   H %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Peter Weaver wrote in news:3i2sc5Fjknv9U1@individual.net   > jemcdon41 wrote:H >> These licenses were educational.  We did try to reset the system time >>...  > ; > If there were educational then you can get them for free.  > B >> The goal is not to use VMS anymore, but only try to provide the >>...  > F > Why? VMS is a great OS to run, it would be very educational for yourE > students to learn that Windows is not the only game in town. Sounds  > like you have the wrong goal.  >   G I have to agree with Peter here, I think learning to work on VMS can do G a student zero harm, and show them how development environments *could* H be.  Sure, if you look at OpenVMS in comparison to other OS there's thisF disgusting fact that someone is trying to make money, but they sure asF hell aren't out to fool anyone in the process.  If you want to go openB source, nobody is stopping you, but if it isn't the *genuine* bestG solution don't blame the people who make good proprietary solutions and  offer them to you.       Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:08:13 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> # Subject: Re: rename of system disks 0 Message-ID: <11bpph9r1qk5r29@corp.supernews.com>  
 DerekB wrote: ) > That's it! That' what I was forgetting.  > 	 > Thanks!  > -Derek >   A Why do I get the feeling that there will soon be questions about  & problems after changing the node name?  K Before asking said questions, be advised that the FAQ answers many of them.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:09:20 +0200 3 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com>  Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?= Message-ID: <42bc6871$0$67263$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    Dr. Dweeb wrote:E > I am just replying to the root for want of a better place to say my  > $0.02.A > It seems that some of you have forgotten a crucial piece of the G > puzzle. What will determine whether a customer X will convert from an ? > Alpha/VMS system to an IA64/VMS system or something different E > altogether is very likley to be something that they cannot control.  > E > Not everyone can just convert to IA64, just like everyone could not B > convert from VAX to Alpha.  There are major software developmentC > tools that are not going to make the leap, meaning that customers D > using these tools will need to re-develop for VMS using some other= > tool, or move to another OS that supports the tool that the  > applications currently use. E > I did a search at the Cognos site for "VMS" and it made exactly one D > (1) hit, on an announcment over 5 years old !!!  There are quite aG > few Cognos/VMS sites in the world.  I will bet you a beer that Cognos B > is never going to port Powerhouse to IA64, despite the number of > customers using it. F > Every VMS customer who has based their development on Powerhouse nowG > has about 5 years to redevelop their systems using something else, or C > redeploy on a platform Cognos supports.  Whoops, there go lots of D > OracleRdb clients out the window as well, because OracleRdb is VMS > only. G > I am sure we can find others.  Uniface perhaps? Rally from Oracle has C > already fallen on this alter.  Others I am sure exist.  For every F > product that does not make it to IA64, some number of customers willF > be forced to abandon VMS, no matter whether they believe IA64 is the > best thing since gravity ! >  > just an observation. >  > Dr. Dweeb   J An interesting observation is that my observation resulted in exactly one  pertinent comment. ;-(   Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:13:34 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?0 Message-ID: <11bpprdgns4lnf8@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Bob Koehler wrote: > F >>   I think DEC and MS killed WNT on Alpha long before selling DEC to) >>   Compaq became the DEC business plan.  >  > I > I am not so sure of that.  Microsoft would have know that Palmer was in B > talks with Compaq 3 years before the purchase was announced. And@ > Microsoft would have seen Compaq as a company fully capable ofE > leveraging the ALpha platform and finally giving Windows a place in D > large systems. In other words, with the prospects of Compaq buyingH > Digital, Microsoft woudl have had some hopes that Alpha might actuallyD > finally be allowed to succeed once in the hands of a competant CEOD > (instead of Palmer that was doing slash and burn, and saying no toL > customers who wanted to buy DEC goods and services (such as FAB services). > H > Once Pfeiffer was ousted and replaced by the Curly accountant, it mustI > have become quite evident to Microsoft that Alpha wouldn't make it as a I > popular platform, so it became very easy to find a reason to stop doing J > it. Remember that of all the alternate platforms that NT had been portedC > to, Alpha was the one that lasted the longest. MS didn't have any F > problems quickly dropping the other platforms, probably becacause asI > long as it still had one powerful enterprise CPU (alpha) it could still  > try to concquer that market.  I Microsoft didn't provide Alpha versions of much of their software.  That  H was their part in killing Alpha NT.  However, as long as DEC/Compaq was H paying for all the Alpha NT development and support, Microsoft appeared  to be happy.  I It was Compaq that cancelled Alpha NT, and reports at the time mentioned  , that only 2% of all Alpha sales were for NT.  F Only after Compaq cancelled the development and support did Microsoft G also drop the platform.  They weren't about to pay for the development   and support.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 13:41:17 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com  Subject: Re: State of the art?C Message-ID: <1119645677.814655.122280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   G Since I am going to try and find an official answer I want to make sure  I have the question right.  @ Are you saying you want to officially use OpenVMS on things like customer give aways?  D  I thought that if you were a DSPP member you got access to all that anyway.   F If Ambassadors have stuff they usually get it from me, there is no way) I can supply the world, as hard as I try.   D I have a wonderful vendor that I use that has all my art work I haveF used them for years and I would be most happy to share the information# if it is needed.  Just let me know.   
 Warm Regards,  Sue    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 16:32:32 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: State of the art?3 Message-ID: <stZlFL3SKnM8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <1119645677.814655.122280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com writes: I > Since I am going to try and find an official answer I want to make sure  > I have the question right. > B > Are you saying you want to officially use OpenVMS on things like > customer give aways?  A    It would certianly catch my eye if a vendor included "OpenVMS" D    on thier give aways.  I'd suspect they had some idea of what they    were doing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:45:19 -0400 4 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca> Subject: Re: State of the art?+ Message-ID: <3i3d7hFjod2aU1@individual.net>   " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:D > Since I am going to try and find an official answer I want to make! > sure I have the question right.  > B > Are you saying you want to officially use OpenVMS on things like > customer give aways? > F >  I thought that if you were a DSPP member you got access to all that	 > anyway.  > H > If Ambassadors have stuff they usually get it from me, there is no way+ > I can supply the world, as hard as I try.  > F > I have a wonderful vendor that I use that has all my art work I haveH > used them for years and I would be most happy to share the information% > if it is needed.  Just let me know.  >  > Warm Regards,  > Sue   H I think (I could be wrong) that the DSPP program lets us put the HP logoF on our web site and business cards and possibly handouts. But I reallyD don't care about the HP logo, they just happen to be the company who currently owns VMS.   E I would like to have things with VMS on them to give to customers. If G you could create 5000 VMS pens at whatever volume discount your printer E would give you for 5000 pens I would be happy to buy 20 to 30 of them B for the same price you paid for 20 to 30 of them to hand out to my
 customers.  H The problem comes from with shipping, especially to other countries. ButE HP probably has an infrastructure that would let you ship X number of E boxes to a local Ambassador and then that Ambassador could drop off a F box here and a box there and ship another box to someplace he will not be going to for a while.  F What Stan was talking about (correct me if I'm putting the wrong wordsH in your mouth) is that if there was a VMS glossy  that had a spot for meH to put my name then I could print it on my colour laser and hand it to a	 customer.   C In exchange for us helping to advertise VMS you could create a "VMS F Ambassador-At-Large" web page with links to the people who participate in this program.   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:16:20 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: State of the art?. Message-ID: <42BC4DF4.24403.37C6B21@localhost>  , On 24 Jun 2005 at 17:45, Peter Weaver wrote:H > What Stan was talking about (correct me if I'm putting the wrong wordsG > in your mouth) is that if there was a VMS glossy  that had a spot for H > me to put my name then I could print it on my colour laser and hand it > to a customer.  > My original post was that we need to create some VMS-specific B materials that we're proud to hand out.  If I'm printing it at my 7 expense, I need to have a place to put my contact info.   E > In exchange for us helping to advertise VMS you could create a "VMS H > Ambassador-At-Large" web page with links to the people who participate > in this program.  9 That would be great.  The more inbound links, the better!   E I got an "OpenVMS Ambassador" shirt at Bootcamp 2003, so I'm already  % equipped for a 1-on-1 situation.  :-)   F Speaking of shirts, I have several that say "HP Certified".  Would be 9 very cool if there was a second line that said "OpenVMS".   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:03:56 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: State of the art?+ Message-ID: <42BCBB8B.2FA64AA2@comcast.net>    Peter Weaver wrote:  > $ > susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:F > > Since I am going to try and find an official answer I want to make# > > sure I have the question right.  > > D > > Are you saying you want to officially use OpenVMS on things like > > customer give aways? > > H > >  I thought that if you were a DSPP member you got access to all that > > anyway.  > > J > > If Ambassadors have stuff they usually get it from me, there is no way- > > I can supply the world, as hard as I try.  > > H > > I have a wonderful vendor that I use that has all my art work I haveJ > > used them for years and I would be most happy to share the information' > > if it is needed.  Just let me know.  > >  > > Warm Regards,  > > Sue  > J > I think (I could be wrong) that the DSPP program lets us put the HP logoH > on our web site and business cards and possibly handouts. But I reallyF > don't care about the HP logo, they just happen to be the company who > currently owns VMS.  > G > I would like to have things with VMS on them to give to customers. If I > you could create 5000 VMS pens at whatever volume discount your printer G > would give you for 5000 pens I would be happy to buy 20 to 30 of them D > for the same price you paid for 20 to 30 of them to hand out to my > customers. > J > The problem comes from with shipping, especially to other countries. ButG > HP probably has an infrastructure that would let you ship X number of G > boxes to a local Ambassador and then that Ambassador could drop off a H > box here and a box there and ship another box to someplace he will not > be going to for a while. > H > What Stan was talking about (correct me if I'm putting the wrong wordsJ > in your mouth) is that if there was a VMS glossy  that had a spot for meJ > to put my name then I could print it on my colour laser and hand it to a > customer.  > E > In exchange for us helping to advertise VMS you could create a "VMS H > Ambassador-At-Large" web page with links to the people who participate > in this program.  @ Just seconding Peter's vote on his proposal for the new program.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:24:49 -0400 4 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca> Subject: Re: State of the art?: Message-ID: <Sf3ve.27343$X57.737481@news20.bellglobal.com>  ? "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message % news:42BCBB8B.2FA64AA2@comcast.net...  > Peter Weaver wrote:  >...G > > In exchange for us helping to advertise VMS you could create a "VMS J > > Ambassador-At-Large" web page with links to the people who participate > > in this program. > B > Just seconding Peter's vote on his proposal for the new program. >...  J I think I was seconding Stan's idea (and expanding on it a little bit), if( it works out then you should credit him.   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:31:32 -0400 4 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca> Subject: Re: State of the art?: Message-ID: <9m3ve.27346$X57.738081@news20.bellglobal.com>  = "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote in message ( news:42BC4DF4.24403.37C6B21@localhost... >...F > I got an "OpenVMS Ambassador" shirt at Bootcamp 2003, so I'm already' > equipped for a 1-on-1 situation.  :-)  > G > Speaking of shirts, I have several that say "HP Certified".  Would be ; > very cool if there was a second line that said "OpenVMS".  >...  J I don't have any of those shirts, but my web site and business cards stillH use the Compaq Certification logos because they have VMS on them. I madeK sure I pointed it out to Doug Dickerson at the Boot Camp, he didn't tell me C that I am breaking any rules by using the old logo. But I earned my = certifications when it was still Compaq so I figure it is OK.    --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:22:26 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: State of the art?0 Message-ID: <11bpqbuqf6g1779@corp.supernews.com>   Peter Weaver wrote: ? > "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote in message * > news:42BC4DF4.24403.37C6B21@localhost... >  >>... F >>I got an "OpenVMS Ambassador" shirt at Bootcamp 2003, so I'm already' >>equipped for a 1-on-1 situation.  :-)  >>G >>Speaking of shirts, I have several that say "HP Certified".  Would be ; >>very cool if there was a second line that said "OpenVMS".  >>...  >  > L > I don't have any of those shirts, but my web site and business cards stillJ > use the Compaq Certification logos because they have VMS on them. I madeM > sure I pointed it out to Doug Dickerson at the Boot Camp, he didn't tell me E > that I am breaking any rules by using the old logo. But I earned my ? > certifications when it was still Compaq so I figure it is OK.  >   A I think that what the guys are saying is, I want to sell VMS (or  G OpenVMS), not HP.  They want sales aids and such to be specific to VMS.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 13:45:36 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com ' Subject: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report C Message-ID: <1119645936.039074.215890@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Dear Newsgroup, D I sent this out to my email distribution yesterday.  Reading it now,9 its probably a little personal but VMS is personal to me.    Sue    ________________
 Dear Friends,   D I just wanted to give you some highlights from the OpenVMS Boot Camp@ which was held the week of June 5th.  It goes without saying theC audience appreciated the excellent speakers both internal to HP and B Dave Robinson VP from South Eastern Freight Lines and Geoff LowneyD Fellow from Intel.  It was easy to tell because everyone was excited> and happy about what they were learning.  Attendee feedback is	 attached.   
 Week Prior  D We did run classes the week prior to the boot camp week of May 30th.C The Alpha Crash Dump class went Tuesday through Saturday 11 hours a B day, Rob Eulenstein from the Colorado customer Call Center was theG instructor.  The feedback was very positive, Rob has said he is willing B to do this again next year with hopefully Integrity information asC well.  We also had a great TCP/IP session on Wed that was full, the C TCP/IP team did a great job on pulling this together which everyone E enjoyed, we did get the feedback that this should be two days instead G of one since there is so much information. There was also an Oracle Rdb F forum on Thursday and Friday.  When I went over to the Oracle buildingF it was standing room only, it looked about 60 people to me.  I did putC the Oracle Rdb forum materials on the boot camp share for everyone.   	 Boot Camp   D Just some metrics for you.  We achieved our goal of 200 attendees weG had zero no shows, so if people said they were attending the event they E showed up.  We did have about 17 people cancel prior to the event but ? we also had walk-ins. Only 24% of the audience had attended the D boot-camp in 2004. Participation was from 21 countries. Every day weD started at 7:45 AM except Thursday when we started at 7:30 and everyC day was full of technology and fun, friends, knowledge and sharing.   A We ran into a small problem loading up our 18-wheel truck and the G problem was not everything fit so we could not actually close the door. C  Thank goodness it's a short trip.  On Friday we unloaded the truck B thanks so much for everyone that helped not only on Friday but all= weekend (Tim, Matt, Martin, Colin and all the folks I forgot)   F Registration started on Sunday morning, everyone received their badgesA and invoices to save problems with their expenses later thanks to  Stacie Hemann.  E Months in advance work is done with the hotel to make sure that rooms D are set up and meals are ordered that work is done by Kathy Coan and/ Dee Libertine and they did a great job on-site.   = On Monday morning Colin Butcher from the UK received the John C Wisniewski Spirit Award. This award is given to a member of the VMS F Community who most shows the same spirit as our friend John WisniewskiF who passed away last year.  John had passion, integrity and excitementE to communicate about VMS and technology and it is truly a pleasure to B work with people of the same caliber.  Ann McQuaid gave Colin this* award after her keynote on Monday morning.  E Monday evening was VMS Story time, many thanks to the celebrity panel ? of Andy Goldstein, Al Meier, Chris Brown, Melanie Hubbard, Bill E Clemmons, Dan Klein and everyone who participated in telling stories. @ Probably my favorites were when folks actually had to unplug the machines to get them to stop.   F Tuesday evening was the Engineering roundhouse which is coordinated byG Catherine Ward, the engineers brought their machines from their offices F and we had discussion tables, it was a time to talk informally and seeD what was going on.  This was also the time to give away the CustomerG Awards as determined by the customers.  If you remember I had sent mail E asking you to send mail on who you think has helped you the most, you G selected Ken Farmer for his work on www.openvms.org and Gerrit Woertman $ for all his work in the Netherlands.  E Because the Boot camp is designed to be flexible we did need to run a @ Introductory VMS class, based on audience request that Tom Moran taught, this class was full.  F Wednesday the Boot Camp attendees surprised me with a lovely gift of a? blue topaz necklace and earrings, and it is not often that I am F speechless and surprised. Thank you all very much, I have been wearing! the necklace just about everyday.   E For the first time at an OpenVMS Advanced Technical Boot Camp we held C OpenVMS Certification training, with many thanks to Doug Dickerson. G This was very well received by the attendees.  We were able to have the F tests available for only about 29 hours. In that time 71 certificationB tests were delivered there are now 21 new VMS CSA's and 10 new VMS CSE's   G Warren Sander our web master not only for the boot camp but for the VMS A web external web site in general. Will have all the presentations @ available to the 2005 boot camp attendees and the HP folks soon.  C Thursday evening we had a Partners roundhouse with approximately 40 G business partners, this evening is coordinated by Signe Maximous.  Both D the Partners and the Boot Camp attendees and Engineering group had aG great time.  There are so many applications, tools and services to know * about this is really a great way to do it.  A Friday was only a half day, but we still managed to pack a lot in F before we had to tear down everything before we had to set back up for Ambassadors on Sunday.  G HP corporate sent evaluations to the attendees 123 of the 200 responded 4 with an official rating of 4.6 out of a possible 5.0  $ Next Year for your planning purposes  F Next Year we have planned for the boot camp to be the week of May 21 -0 starting on Sunday May 21-26 the cost will $1495  C I would like to thank the core Boot Camp Team, all the speakers the = engineers because without them we would not have VMS and most E importantly the customers because without them non of us would have a  job.  
 Warm Regards, 
 Sue Skonetski  Boot Camp Program Manager   Y ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- C Attendee feedback - there is more but I do not want to over do it - ; this is not the official HP feedback this is just via email     C The hands-on storage session was amazingly educational. That 3 hour E block almost paid for itself. I have read much about managing the EVA C storage units, but have nor been able to actually get my hands on a G system. I learned more in the three hour block than many, many hours of E reading. It helped that we had a good group -- two from InterSystems, ? Ron(?) from Detroit Medical Center -- all of us experienced and B interested in trying more than was in the exercise. GREAT session.  ? Hey this was great! My first boot camp, even though I have been D involved with VMS for a good part of my life. I have made a personal8 commitment to attend again, even if it's on my own dime.  C Lock Manager sessions with Bruce Ellis. All I can say about this is E stimulating and energizing! One has to wonder how can one person (who @ does not work for HP) store that much detailed information aboutF something like the Lock Manager...but then there quite a few people at OpenVMS Engineering like him.   F This 2005 VMS boot camp was probably the best event of its kind I haveG ever attended. Many years ago I actually wrote a memo to my boss that a ? conference I had attended was not worth the time. This event is D completely opposite. I would recommend any VMS site to send someone.F The convenience of sessions in the same hotel is priceless. Not havingG to wander the area for meals is a major time saver. And the quality and F subject of the sessions is definitely the high light of the boot camp.  E Access to engineers, another highlight. For example, I sat with Keith E Parris and discussed an upcoming large GS1280 system installation and E migration at a Cerner site with which I am assisting. Keith validated F my deliberate plan to minimize simultaneous changes, and made a coupleF of good suggestions. Had a couple of fun conversations with Guy Peleg,G and I really appreciate his energy. I also saw but was not able to talk F with Kevin Jenkins, another of the people I have met a few times along# the way and are highly appreciated.   G The boot camp has paid for itself many times over. If all we got out of D it was the meeting of Dave it would have paid for itself. I have nowG made contact with him, and we are hoping to crib some of what he's done ? and put additional apps on VMS. We have also started to look at E CommunigatePro, thus removing the need for us to move to Exchange for E our mail services, this was again as a result of conversations at the A boot camp. On top of that we got a lot of technical info from the E sessions, some was new and some was the reminders we needed to ensure F that good practices are introduced and adhered to. Money and time wellC spent. (Don't forget we come from the UK so was more money and time " than for most, but well worth it.)  E Certification testing I did not plan on it, but was able to take (and F pass) two of the three tests available at the symposium. The access toC the testing was a very nice surprise. I believe the tests met their G goal of being challenging and testing experience over "book knowledge." @ And, as I said to Mr. Dickerson, I would probably make the tests harder.   E The OpenVMS boot camp was the best use of my training dollars/time of G any HP training I have taken to date. It just keeps getting better each & time I attend. Keep up the great work.  B The boot camp event itself was excellent & even with the expensiveE airfare from the UK more than constituted a return on investment. I'd ? have considered it a major success to simply have access to the B Engineers for a week, let alone having them give presentations andE hints & kinks. You can spend considerably more money on a course with ? only a single 'instructor'; this boot camp gave us the complete D spectrum of experts. Not only that, but to have additional engineersF (such as Andy Goldstein) and senior staff such as MJ, Paul Lacombe andB Chris Brown there mans the event simply can't be beaten. This mustE really be the definition of 'value for money'. Finally, offering free C VMS certification was the icing on the cake. To have more certified * people out there can only be a good thing.  F - the hands-on sessions were excellent, particularly the B101 (booting( Itanium) with it's well done lab guides.  D - the performance-related sessions (I224 and I219) were a little bit6 crowded, so a bigger room would be nice for next time.  C I am extremely pleased with the boot camp technical content and its E administration. As someone who has attended many Symposia, I found it E to be the  best technical event that I have been at in years and look < forward to joining you and the VMS engineers next year. As a? professional consultant, all time spent away from my clients is B expensive in lost time and services. I must say that the boot camp1 certainly made up in value for this lost revenue.    ------------------------------  , Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:56:35 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>. Subject: Re: UAF> /ACCOUNT What's it used for?J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0506242247390.13670-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  " On 17 Jun 2005, Bob Koehler wrote:  7 >+[...] JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >+> Bob Koehler wrote:J >+>> > 1) It's stored via the ACCOUNTING utility and can be used to bundle% >+>> > Usernames together for billing  >+>> >O >+>> > 2) If the UIC Group code doesn't already exist then the ACCOUNT field is 1 >+>> > used to create an Identifier for the Group  >+>> > >+>> > Anything else?  >+>>   >+>>    That's it. >+> J >+> Actually that isn't "it". You are forgetting customer use of the field6 >+> for various applications and management of SYSUAF. >+. >+   _VMS_ doesn't use them for anything else,  >  Erm.. except something like Maxacctjobs limit, use for SYSMAN; class sheduler limits (possible for accounts, usernames and , UICs).... No, I am not sure if that is all !   >+   which is what the OP 6 >+   wanted to know and why the customer can use them.  " IMHO that was not complete list :]    Regards - Gotfryd   --  E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 13:53:23 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com   Subject: Updated VMS informationC Message-ID: <1119646403.681400.278920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E I sent this out yesterday, if I know Ken Farmer he has already posted 8 and has the Digital Networks white paper up (very cool).  D One thing that I forgot to mention was that Encompass represenativesD were at the boot camp (US, Canada and Germany).  The US folks on theG content team have gone back and requested additional slots for a couple  more of the VMS talks.   Sue  ______________________ Dear Distribution Lists,  A I have attached an excellent white paper from Digital Networks on C Ethernet Ring technology. At the boot camp they were also running a F demo that showed a full motion video application traversing a EthernetF Ring and an FDDI network that could recover from an induced failure inG milliseconds  And while I openly admit that I have prejudice, because I E came from the Digital Networks group when they were at DEC this is an < excellent technology that I think you will find interesting.   Index    1=2E Something to think about  2=2E From the engineers  3=2E Web sites of interest 4=2E Note from Marketing 5=2E From our Partners 	Cache! 	Oracle Rdb 7.0.8.1 (aka V7.0-81) G 6=2E Jobs (there is a bunch of them) - Please note I have nothing to do ) with hiring, I just care about my friends     F 1=2E Something to think about when folks ask about VMS viability Since@ 2003 VMS engineering has released the following O/S versions allF containing MAJOR new functionality: (thanks Guy) V7.3-2 V8.0 V8.1 V8.2 and later this year.... V8.2-1  0 Next release from MS is sometime during 2006....  " ----------------------------------  2=2E Note from the VMS engineers  E Original message -  I gave my talk on configuring Itanium consoles on G Sunday. As I was describing the EFI partition and the various fsN: file D systems, a customer asked: is there a command that shows which disks have bootable OpenVMS on it?  E Reply -  Identify VMS system disks; customer suggestion from BootCamp G VMS_SHOW DEVICES displays both the VMS device name and, optionally, the D FSn: name of the disk.  If both names are displayed you can probably> assume the disk is bootable.  This may not be obvious, but the1 information is there. Thanks to Jeff N and Paul J & _____________________________________-   3=2E Web Sites of interest  D The software catalog on the VMS Home page has been updated June 22nd/ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/swcat/us/default.html   E Web Services Integration Toolkit for OpenVMS Alpha and I64 field test $ update now available (June 22, 2005)4 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/wsit/  @ http://www.vaxman.de/my_machines/computer_room/invitation.html -C Computer Museum in Germany from our friend and VMS Champion Andreas  Fassl   3 Have you visited the Encompass OpenVMS Portal Page? 7 http://www.encompassus.org/resources/openvmsportal.html   C You may want to visit www.openvms.org for folks trip reports on the 0 boot camp. ______________ 4. Note from Marketing:  Subject: "New" OpenVMS Transition Tools and Methodologies Hi Sue, G Could you please forward this to the OpenVMS Ambassadors and your other  distributions as appropriate.   C A giant thank you goes to Thomas Siebold and Matt Currier for their E work with the development of the "New" OpenVMS AlphaServer systems to G Integrity servers Transition Modules. These modules will be very useful C to our customers when moving from their current AlphaServer systems ! environment to Integrity servers.   @ There has never been a better or more exciting time to build theG operating environment of tomorrow with the greatest level of confidence D for investment protection. HP has developed a portfolio of tools andF methodologies to help successfully plan and design the transition fromC your OpenVMS AlphaServer system environment to OpenVMS on Integrity  servers.   Please visitE http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/transition/index.html for C all of the details. Regards Jim Rainville OpenVMS Marketing Manager    ________________ 5=2E From our Partners  G Yesterday we made a second field test version of Cach=E9 5.1 available. @ In addition to a number of corrections and improvements, it addsF support for several new platforms including OpenVMS for both Alpha and? Itanium processors.  We expect a third field test version to be 8 available in four weeks with a few more platforms added.  F While we continue our aggressive internal testing efforts, there is noD substitute for extensive testing by customers in varied environmentsG and with varied applications.  You can help by encouraging customers to - download and begin using Cach=E9 5.1 FT2 now.   0 More information is available on our Web site at- http://www.intersystems.com/cache/fieldtest/.    Thanks for your help.    Paul   Paul Grabscheid  VP, Strategic Planning InterSystems Corporation One Memorial Drive Cambridge, MA 02142 USA  +1 617 621 0600  www.intersystems.com     _______________ 
 Oracle Rdb   -----Original Message-----7 From: Ginger Vollmar [mailto:ginger.vollmar@oracle.com] % Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 1:30 PM G To: kfarmer@openvms.org; Vazquez, MaryJane; Skonetski, Susan; Maximous,   Signe; Schafer, Mark; Regan, Tim1 Subject: Oracle Rdb Release 7.0.8.1 Now Available     A      We are pleased to announce the release of Oracle Rdb Release A      7.0.8.1 (aka V7.0-81).  The kit is available on Metalink and       will be on OTN shortly.  8      Software Errors Fixed in Oracle Rdb Release 7.0.8.18      ---------------------------------------------------  7      Software Errors Fixed That Apply to All Interfaces ;        - Problem with Rdb 7.0.8 and VMS Versions Below V7.1 =        - Wrong Results Generated by Query With Common Boolean           Elements ?        - Query With Shared Expressions in OR Predicates Returns           Wrong Result 7        - Various Errors or Corruption of Ranked Indexes @        - Wrong Result From Query With Common Join Booleans in OR=        - Wrong Result Selecting From a Derived Table of UNION           Clause <        - Incorrect Foreign Key Constraint Behavior on Update>        - Bugchecks in PSII2SPLITNODE When Using Ranked Indexes=        - Connection Name Longer than 31 Characters Mishandled       SQL Errors Fixed :        - Dynamic SQL Rounds Results from Division Operator      LogMiner Errors Fixed>        - RMU /UNLOAD /AFTER_JOURNAL Incorrect Settings in Null          Bit Vector   8      Enhancements Provided in Oracle Rdb Release 7.0.8.18      ---------------------------------------------------  .      Enhancements that Apply to all Interfaces4        - New DEFAULTS Qualifier Added to RMU Extract  ) _________________________________________  6=2E1 Jobs (let me know and I will forward your resume)   A Looking for VMS people that can write drivers send your resume to G not at head hunter a real person, that I know.  Jim is also looking for D Call Center folks as well.  Please do not post this on the web, I do not want Jim getting spammed4 ____________________________________________________L http://www.jobsearch.org/seeker/jobsearch/quick?action=3DJobSearchViewJob&J= obSearch_JobId=3D20485779 & >From Job Bank (there were 2 postings)& Job Summary Company Job ID:   13837534# Job Title:   Fortran/VMs Programmer  Company:      Adea Solutions$ Location:     US - TX, DALLAS, 75209  AJB Reference Number:   20485779$ Job Start/End Date:     not provided Job Type:     Temporary " Job Classification :     Full Time Hours/Week:     not provided Salary Range:     not provided) Education:     High School Diploma or GED  Required Degree/! Formal Training:     not provided  Required Licenses/ Certificates :     not provided  Experience:     not provided Company  Homepage:     not provided      More Information   E   America's Career InfoNet has information about jobs at the national  level:    & General Outlook on the U.S. Job Market Additional Career Resources 6 Wage and Trend information related to this type of job Profile of Texas        Job Description  D   Fortran/VMs ProgrammerABOUT ADEA SOLUTIONS Adea Solutions is an ITB solutions and services company with over 1 700 team members in sixA countries. The company leverages technology to create sustainable @ business value for clients in Telecommunications Retail/ConsumerB Healthcare/Life Sciences Financial Services and Public Sector. TheF company was founded in 1996 and is headquartered in Dallas Texas. AdeaE Solutions has a CMMi5 appraised development center and is a certified C Microsoft Gold Partner. ORTRAN/VMS Programming Retail and/or Credit A Card processing experience a plus. Knowledge with Object Oriented G Concepts also a plus.o Job Description : Candidate will work as part of B a team making modifications to an existing retail application. JOB6 LOCATION PROVINCE: JOB LOCATION COUNTRY: United States& ______________________________________    DEC VMS System Admin (Dallas)    * Apply: Website: click here to apply online  2 _______________________________________________--- Date: 2005-06-23 07:47:15   + http://www.careermole.com/jobs/4219337.html   : REFER to 'SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS' for POSITION DESCRIPTION.F An intermediate-level professional, the Systems Development SpecialistF is a fully qualified individual producer who applies a broad knowledge= of engineering/automation concepts, practices and procedures. F Incumbents are competent to work on fairly complex assignments (and/or@ portions of larger, complex systems) and perform a full range ofE development activities. The incumbent generally works under deadlines C and is capable of handling heavy workloads, and operating with only C general supervision, although errors at this level can cause delay, E expense and/or disruption. May provide occasional functional guidance = to less experienced staff. Incumbents are responsible for the ? installation, development, implementation, and customization of & hardware and software system elements.@ Equipment or software design, engineering and/or development forE commercial, medical or scientific uses. Engineering evaluation and/or D test of materials (H/W and/or S/W components, products and systems).B Preparation of detailed specifications from which programs will be= written, or equipment fabricated or installed. Application of G configuration management procedures for changes to the operating system G files and software. Performance of associated process studies, research : investigations and requirements analyses of all aspects of? communications and telecommunications system, etc., by applying > statistical/analytical and modeling or engineering techniques,B procedures and criteria in specialized areas. Participation in theE development and preparation of documentation for, but not limited to, > procedural, program and user documentation. Designs, develops,G installs, implements, fine tunes, documents and/or maintains databases, G database dictionaries; monitors standards and procedures and integrates 3 systems through database design and administration. G Works with users to ensure successful system implementation; may assist C in user training. Occasionally, may provide guidance and assists in E training of less experienced staff. May research or write portions of F technical proposals. Maintains state-of-the-art knowledge and compilesD information into recommendations and analyses. Education and Typical Years of Experience:  A Bachelor's degree in a related technical field or equivalent work @ experience. 3 to 4 years experience with Open VMS/VAX VMS 6.2 or higher.  Special Requirements:   @ MUST RESIDE IN LOS ANGELES, RIVERSIDE, SAN BERNARDINO, or ORANGE@ COUNTY, CA, TO BE CONSIDERED FOR POSITION. NOT ACCEPTING H1-VISA> CANDIDATES AT THIS TIME. ACS is seeking a multi-tasking SystemF Administrator to support the IRIS ProFit project development. SelectedD individual will monitor system performance, add to and install basicG equipment, work with vendors on hardware issues, recommend upgrades and F performance tools. This will also required the individual to work with@ trainers, designers, systems developers and other subject matter experts.
 REQUIREMENTS: > * Knowledge and experience with OpenVMS System Administration;D * Experience with OpenVMS Cluster technology and OpenVMS Performance tuning; ; * Good knowledge of DCL and writing DCL command procedures; ) * Strong knowledge of VMS Backup utility; * * Strong knowledge of BMC Patrol software;< * Experience supporting Oracle 8.1.7 database in a clustered environment;D * Good understanding of TCP/IP services such as SNMP, NTP, and mail;B * Experience with Cerner/Millinium Healthcare applications a plus;= * Knowledge of HSG80 Storage arrays and GS80 Hardware a plus. 	 Benefits:    Benefits package available ____________________________L http://truecareers.careercast.com/texis/jobsearch/details.html?id=3D42b7610= 56d690   Lockheed Martin  Requisition Number:    511312 % Job Title:   Research Engineering Mgr @ Required Skills   Flight Control Expertise, Vehicle Mgmnt System	 Expertise E Desired Skills   Multi-tasking Skills, Project Management, Research &  Dev. Experience @ Specific Description   (Position Number 43222833) -- Support ADPA programs and manage engineering personnel assignments to meet ADP F program needs at all three sites in Flight Control, Vehicle ManagementD System, Mass Properties and Electrical Systems disciplines. Lead the> ADP technology development and integration activities in theseB disciplines by interfacing with internal and external customers toE identify the right technologies and to transition the technologies to E programs. Provide oversight of CRAD and IRAD project pursuit, capture F and performance management. Shall be responsible for facilitating taskE execution through proper coordination with all stakeholders including E key program personnel. Will be responsible for assigning personnel to G ADP programs including selection and placement of appropriate engineers F to meet program needs. Shall be responsible for administrative duties,G such as development of staffing forecasts, requisitions and appraisals. A Good people skills as well as good oral and written communication G skills a must. Requires travel to customer facilities and other LM Aero C sites. The position can be filled at either Fort Worth or Palmdale.  General Position Description@ Manages generic research and/or product development encompassing@ primarily multiple engineering disciplines, such as electronics,E electrical, mechanical, and/or chemical. Responsible for coordinating E subordinate employee recruitment, selection and training, performance B assessment, work assignments, salary, and recognition/disciplinary actions.   Typical Minimums< Appropriate degree from an accredited college, or equivalent? experience/combined education, with professional experience and 2 specialized training commensurate with assignment.    % Business Unit:    AERONAUTICS COMPANY  Business Area:   AERONAUTICS% Job Class:   Aeronautical Engineering + Job Designation:   EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONAL  Location:   Fort Worth, TX Department:   Flt Cntl VMS Sys Relocation:   YES  Clearance Required:   SECRET Work Week:   FLEX 9X80A  Requisition Type:   FULL-TIME  Direct/Indirect:   DIRECT  Work Shift:   FIRST ' _______________________________________ L "http://cvg53.recruitmax.com/ENG/Candidates/default.cfm?szCategory=3Djobpro= file&szOrderID=3D19740"     Job Profile Career Opportunities    $ Title:   LEAD APPLICATIONS DEVELOPER Requisition #:   2005-19740  Employment Type:   Regular Full/Part Time:   Full Time  Division:   IT. Location:   FIFTH THIRD CENTER, CINCINNATI, OH Posted Date:   05/09/2005    Requirements   GENERAL FUNCTION:   E Business Intelligence (BI) Lead Application Developers, help internal G customers use technology integration to solve business challenges.  The E BI specialist has extensive experience in Business Analytics, BI tool F integration and development, and is committed to delivering efficient,? technology-based solutions to the customer.  The Lead Developer F assesses our client's current technology needs and assist with systemsE design and implementation to improve both enterprise-wide integration  and profitability.  F The position is on the Technical/Professional ladder at level 4 in the$ Applications Development discipline.   DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES:  G 1=2E  Acts as a liaison to define business requirements and/or problems B and initiates maintenance of existing programs or designs of a new@ application. 2.  Interprets business requirements and identifies& solutions to meet business objectives.B 3=2E  Oversees the advanced troubleshooting and problem resolutionB functions for software products. 4.  Is a technical lead on largerA projects and acts as project lead on smaller projects/development @ efforts. 5.  Reviews and recommends BI vendor products, developsC technical specifications and interfaces with other applications. 6. G Demonstrates competence with a variety of the following tools: Business 9 Object Designer, Supervisor, and Reporter, SAS Enterprise C Miner/Enterprise Guide, Hyperion/Essbase, IBM Intelligent Miner; 7. F Hands-on technical skills in any or all of the following technologies:> Java, J2EE, .NET, Visual Basic, Power Builder, SAS, PL/SQL. 8.F Experience with any or all of the following operating systems: WindowsE NT, Unix (AIX), VMS, OS 400 9.  Experience with database engines such < as DB2 Mainframe and/or DB2 UDB 10.  Must have relevant Data@ Warehousing, Business Intelligence, Portal or Content ManagementA industry or consulting experience; and experience leading complex D technical engagements 11.  Oversees the advanced troubleshooting andE problem resolution functions for software products. 12.  Other duties  as required.   SUPERVISORY RESPONSIBILITIES:  None  1 MINIMUM KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS AND ABILITIES REQUIRED: A Undergraduate degree in computer-related field, with 6-8 years of  experience.    WORKING CONDITIONS: D 1=2E  Normal office environment with little exposure to dust, noise,A temperature and the like. 2.  Extended viewing of the CRT screen.     
 Experience1 MINIMUM KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS AND ABILITIES REQUIRED: A Undergraduate degree in computer-related field, with 6-8 years of  experience.  =20  E=2EO.E., M/F/D/V    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:15:58 +0000 (UTC) ( From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer)0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download5 Message-ID: <d9hiku$ve9$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>   P In article <42BC45E7.35D602D1@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy. com> writes: > Michael Kraemer wrote:. > > Don't tell me it's for economical reasons.D > > PAK-free AIX is alive and well, whereas PAK-plagued DEC OSes are > > pretty much dead.  >  > I > I disagree. The concept of PAKs is not all evil. Consider most personal F > computer commercial grade software. They have the "PAK" concept too.E > When you first start the application, it asks you to enter a serial G > number, some personal info and that gets registered with the software C > vendor over the internet. (in the past via 800 number with dialup  > connection).  ? I'm aware of that, but those "PAK"s are at first "personalized" ) and not restricted to a specific machine. 	 At second 2 there's almost always only 1 "PAK" for everything.; The equivalent to the VMS PAK hell for a PC drawing program : would be to acquire 3 different licenses to be able to use. the red, green, and blue colour, respectively.     E > The concept of a PAK is not bad per say.  By the owner of VMS could D > simplify things much more with fasrt easier ways to purchase a PAKI > on-line with the PAK emailed to you, thus greatly reducing costs to HP. I > And ISVs wouldn't be stuck with all teh paperwork to transfer PAks from - > their name to that of the customer etc etc.   @ If PAKs are considered necessary at all, then a single PAK for aA single product, which means for VMS that everything a "modern" OS H comes with these days should be included: network, GUI, LVM, multi-user.  F But still this doesn't answer the question why AIX, Solaris, HP-UX etc< can happily live w/o PAKs whereas the DEC-legacy OSes can't.B Those companies don't seem to care if their media are sold on eBay: and run by a handful of people at home. And rightfully so,< since these people hardly endanger their business, and being& generous can OTOH be good advertising.   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2005 18:26:36 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download+ Message-ID: <3i31isFjbqt3U1@individual.net>   5 In article <d9hiku$ve9$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>, + 	m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) writes: R > In article <42BC45E7.35D602D1@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy. > com> writes: >> Michael Kraemer wrote: / >> > Don't tell me it's for economical reasons. E >> > PAK-free AIX is alive and well, whereas PAK-plagued DEC OSes are  >> > pretty much dead. >> >>J >> I disagree. The concept of PAKs is not all evil. Consider most personalG >> computer commercial grade software. They have the "PAK" concept too. F >> When you first start the application, it asks you to enter a serialH >> number, some personal info and that gets registered with the softwareD >> vendor over the internet. (in the past via 800 number with dialup >> connection).  > A > I'm aware of that, but those "PAK"s are at first "personalized" + > and not restricted to a specific machine.  > At second 4 > there's almost always only 1 "PAK" for everything.= > The equivalent to the VMS PAK hell for a PC drawing program < > would be to acquire 3 different licenses to be able to use0 > the red, green, and blue colour, respectively. >  >   F >> The concept of a PAK is not bad per say.  By the owner of VMS couldE >> simplify things much more with fasrt easier ways to purchase a PAK J >> on-line with the PAK emailed to you, thus greatly reducing costs to HP.J >> And ISVs wouldn't be stuck with all teh paperwork to transfer PAks from. >> their name to that of the customer etc etc. > B > If PAKs are considered necessary at all, then a single PAK for aC > single product, which means for VMS that everything a "modern" OS J > comes with these days should be included: network, GUI, LVM, multi-user. > H > But still this doesn't answer the question why AIX, Solaris, HP-UX etc> > can happily live w/o PAKs whereas the DEC-legacy OSes can't.D > Those companies don't seem to care if their media are sold on eBay< > and run by a handful of people at home. And rightfully so,> > since these people hardly endanger their business, and being( > generous can OTOH be good advertising.  C Well, when you own VMS you will be free to use such an arrangement. B But right now, it belongs to HP and they, too, are free to licenseC it any way they wish.  None of this gives anyone the right to steal  HP's IP.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:34:24 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download, Message-ID: <42BC5224.2B89D1E3@teksavvy.com>   Michael Kraemer wrote:B > If PAKs are considered necessary at all, then a single PAK for aC > single product, which means for VMS that everything a "modern" OS J > comes with these days should be included: network, GUI, LVM, multi-user.    A This dates back from the Palmer era. There were cries to make VMS B affordable. His answer was to strip VMS of everything and make VMSE affordable :-) and then get you to pay seperatly for everything else.   2 (Instead of lowering the cost of VMS alltogether).  @ I think that Motif and TCPIP as well as the C compiler should beE operable with just the VMS licence and not require their own licence.   H When Compaq donated the compilers to intel, it should have insisted thatB the C compiler be distributed as part of base VMS systyems without additional licence fees.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:44:13 +0000 (UTC) ( From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer)0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download4 Message-ID: <d9hk9t$b7$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>  \ In article <42BC5224.2B89D1E3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   B > I think that Motif and TCPIP as well as the C compiler should beG > operable with just the VMS licence and not require their own licence.   @ It would already be a gain if Motif and TCPIP would be included.3 A C compiler would be nice-to-have, but not a must, C given the fact that commercial Unices don't include it anymore too.   J > When Compaq donated the compilers to intel, it should have insisted thatD > the C compiler be distributed as part of base VMS systyems without > additional licence fees.  6 Maybe a well-configured gcc would do, like in Solaris.   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2005 19:16:25 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download+ Message-ID: <3i34g9Fjme8lU1@individual.net>   4 In article <d9hklm$gh$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>,+ 	m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) writes: X > In article <3i31isFjbqt3U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:8 >> In article <d9hiku$ve9$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>,. >> 	m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) writes: >> >  K >> > But still this doesn't answer the question why AIX, Solaris, HP-UX etc A >> > can happily live w/o PAKs whereas the DEC-legacy OSes can't. G >> > Those companies don't seem to care if their media are sold on eBay ? >> > and run by a handful of people at home. And rightfully so, A >> > since these people hardly endanger their business, and being + >> > generous can OTOH be good advertising.  >>  F >> Well, when you own VMS you will be free to use such an arrangement.E >> But right now, it belongs to HP and they, too, are free to license F >> it any way they wish.  None of this gives anyone the right to steal >> HP's IP.  > 1 > In which way do I "steal" IP from HP this way ? : > I buy used equipment from somebody how as bought it fromA > somebody else who has paid money to HP for the fresh equipment. 0 > If I buy a used car, do I "steal" it from GM ? > < > Now if I replicated the stuff and sold it for own account," > that would be theft, of course.   ? We were talking about putting up a public ftp site with HP's IP ? on it.  That is stealing their IP.  Anythng beyond what HP (the ! owner of the IP) allows is theft.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2005 19:50:57 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download6 Message-ID: <Xns967FDE695DF3dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>  ( %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Bill Gunshannon wrote in# news:3i31isFjbqt3U1@individual.net     <snip>  E > Well, when you own VMS you will be free to use such an arrangement. D > But right now, it belongs to HP and they, too, are free to licenseE > it any way they wish.  None of this gives anyone the right to steal 
 > HP's IP.  K This is exactly the point I tried to make in the first place.  None of the  @ people involved in the "debate" have the right to decide on how G distribution is handled, so their "suggestions" have very little value.   H There are constraints as a result of what is considered "interpersonal" K sharing, live within them and HP will ignore you completely.  Live outside  ' them, and you are inviting prosecution.      Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2005 19:58:11 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download7 Message-ID: <Xns967FDFA4867B3dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   E %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, JF Mezei wrote in news:42BC3A7B.39777090@teksavvy.com    > Michael Kraemer wrote:1 >> I don't understand what the fuss is all about. : >> As I understand it, HP isn't willing to sell the CDs to: >> hobbyists at a decent price, so there's no revenue they >> would loose anyway. > H > The problem is that if there is a "free" way to download the SPL, thenF > commercial customers might no longer be interested in paying the bigI > bucks to buy SPL subscriptions. Hence the need to control access to the  > SPL to hobbyists only.    H This is why hobbyists should strive to be beyond reproach.  We're given J access to a lot of valuable IP, distributing it at random isn't exactly a  nice response.  F > When management looks at a request to approve this, if it results inH > loss of revenu for HP (no matter how small), it then becomes harder to > justify allowing this.  I Push comes to shove if HP decides to take OpenVMS off the market, at the  I moment that doesn't seem likely.  If it happens, I'll review my position  C on the distribution of material which others hold the copyright on.      Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2005 20:04:02 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download7 Message-ID: <Xns967FE0A35CA52dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   2 %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote in 9 news:1119547413.927899.39870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com    > Hello @ > The following VAX software is available for download using ftp   Phillip,  2 I'm going to put up the same message as yesterday.   Please take this down.  L You've seen the response from the community at large, we want to be able to L continue sharing shoftware quietly.  The way you're pushing the issue could $ kill Hobbyist use of VMS altogether.     Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2005 20:10:20 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download+ Message-ID: <3i37lcFj8admU1@individual.net>   7 In article <Xns967FDFA4867B3dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>, ' 	"Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> writes: G > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, JF Mezei wrote in news:42BC3A7B.39777090@teksavvy.com  >  >> Michael Kraemer wrote: 2 >>> I don't understand what the fuss is all about.; >>> As I understand it, HP isn't willing to sell the CDs to ; >>> hobbyists at a decent price, so there's no revenue they  >>> would loose anyway.  >>  I >> The problem is that if there is a "free" way to download the SPL, then G >> commercial customers might no longer be interested in paying the big J >> bucks to buy SPL subscriptions. Hence the need to control access to the >> SPL to hobbyists only.  > J > This is why hobbyists should strive to be beyond reproach.  We're given L > access to a lot of valuable IP, distributing it at random isn't exactly a  > nice response. > G >> When management looks at a request to approve this, if it results in I >> loss of revenu for HP (no matter how small), it then becomes harder to  >> justify allowing this.  > K > Push comes to shove if HP decides to take OpenVMS off the market, at the  K > moment that doesn't seem likely.  If it happens, I'll review my position  E > on the distribution of material which others hold the copyright on.   ? Why?  How does their taking it off the market in any way affect ? their ownership of it?  It is their property to do with as they ? wish.  If they wish to see it end, then so be it.  It would not ? be the first OS to suffer such a fate and probably won't be the  last.      bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2005 20:45:23 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download7 Message-ID: <Xns967FE7AC9ACC1dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   ( %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Bill Gunshannon wrote in# news:3i37lcFj8admU1@individual.net    9 > In article <Xns967FDFA4867B3dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>, - >      "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> writes:   G >> Push comes to shove if HP decides to take OpenVMS off the market, at F >> the moment that doesn't seem likely.  If it happens, I'll review myA >> position on the distribution of material which others hold the  >> copyright on.   > A > Why?  How does their taking it off the market in any way affect A > their ownership of it?  It is their property to do with as they A > wish.  If they wish to see it end, then so be it.  It would not A > be the first OS to suffer such a fate and probably won't be the  > last.   D Bill, you're right.  And I'm not thinking straight.  I'm letting my C desire to see VMS live on conflict with the reality of who owns it.   J What I'm expressing is a desire to see the good bits of VMS get publicity < and uptake, but I don't really want to see an OS replace it.         Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:46:19 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download, Message-ID: <42BC711A.10710016@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:A > We were talking about putting up a public ftp site with HP's IP A > on it.  That is stealing their IP.  Anythng beyond what HP (the # > owner of the IP) allows is theft.   H I think this is a matter of semantics. You aren't stealing anything. YouH are providing a service which competes with an HP service (service being2 making copies of software and shipping it to you).  @ The actual IP is still protected by the licencing system (PAK).   8 Perhaps what is needed here is a reverse informal EBAY.   H Someone posts a need, and whoever has the requested media then sees thisD request and can then personally answer it, after which the requestorA closes the bid on the request system. The actual exchange remains % informal and between two individuals.   F On the other hand, that smells a lot like peer to peer except that theF suppliers of kits don't advertise what they have. they only respond to individual requests.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:54:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download, Message-ID: <42BC7320.98FA19FC@teksavvy.com>  
 "Doc." wrote: J > Push comes to shove if HP decides to take OpenVMS off the market, at theJ > moment that doesn't seem likely.  If it happens, I'll review my positionE > on the distribution of material which others hold the copyright on.     D Technically, with HP breaking its promise to have VAX-VMS 8.2, it isF essentially the admission that it is no longer producing VAX software,A and no longer selling VAX hardware.  So would distribution of VAX C software be any harm to HP since none of the VAX customers would be * getting anything they don't already have ?  A In terms of Alpha, this is a bit touchy since there is still some H developmeht of VMS on Alpha. However, the 5 year mark since June 25 2001E comes next year. After which, HP could stop producing Alpha software, H especially if it stops Alpha systems sales before that. And at that timeG distribution of Alpha media shouldn't deprive HP of any revenus at all.   D And with customers not wishing to go IA64, the second HP drops alphaE system sales and/or software development, it will drive the remaining E customer base to stop adding anything to their VMS infrastructure and + build on Sun, Dell, IBM, or Lenovo systems.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 16:23:42 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download3 Message-ID: <sCl3sPA39n+7@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <d9hk9t$b7$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>, m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) writes: ^ > In article <42BC5224.2B89D1E3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >   C >> I think that Motif and TCPIP as well as the C compiler should be H >> operable with just the VMS licence and not require their own licence.  D    If Sun doesn't have to ship a C compiler with C-centric UNIX, why4    should HP have to ship on with non-C-centric VMS?  D    How about a nice Macro-32 compiler/assembler, and BLISS compiler,E    instead.  Might help reduce the number of Mack truck holes in your     applications.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2005 16:21:28 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download3 Message-ID: <KeFF4$1tH2h1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   J In article <d9h668$7td$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:; > Being able to download the applications is useless if you # > haven't got the PAKs to run them.   G    For "fairly obvious" reasons DEC announced the LMF (which implements C    the PAK scheme) as a "license management facility, not a license B    enforcement facility".  The downloads are not useless without a    PAK.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:01:34 -0400 , From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download4 Message-ID: <42bc83ab$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>  G Motif and TCPIP were developed in conjunction with partners of Digital. K Those folks are entitled to their Royalty payments and to make that happen, / a PAK is used to manage the actual product use.   G There is a lot of cross licensed code and the folks that worked hard on L creating it are justified in expecting to be paid for their work and the use of their IP.   rtt       : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:42BC5224.2B89D1E3@teksavvy.com... > Michael Kraemer wrote:D > > If PAKs are considered necessary at all, then a single PAK for aE > > single product, which means for VMS that everything a "modern" OS L > > comes with these days should be included: network, GUI, LVM, multi-user. >  > C > This dates back from the Palmer era. There were cries to make VMS D > affordable. His answer was to strip VMS of everything and make VMSG > affordable :-) and then get you to pay seperatly for everything else.  > 4 > (Instead of lowering the cost of VMS alltogether). > B > I think that Motif and TCPIP as well as the C compiler should beG > operable with just the VMS licence and not require their own licence.  > J > When Compaq donated the compilers to intel, it should have insisted thatD > the C compiler be distributed as part of base VMS systyems without > additional licence fees.      O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:12:21 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download+ Message-ID: <42BCBD84.14ADDB25@comcast.net>   
 "Doc." wrote:  > 3 > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote in ; > news:1119547413.927899.39870@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com  > 	 > > Hello B > > The following VAX software is available for download using ftp > 
 > Phillip, > 4 > I'm going to put up the same message as yesterday. >  > Please take this down. > M > You've seen the response from the community at large, we want to be able to M > continue sharing shoftware quietly.  The way you're pushing the issue could & > kill Hobbyist use of VMS altogether.  G Gotta agree with Doc here. We've lost our champion and if any damage is / done, undoing it will border on the impossible.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:40:42 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download( Message-ID: <opsswm14wuzgicya@hyrrokkin>  , On 24 Jun 2005 16:21:28 -0500, Bob Koehler  0 <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:  F > In article <d9h668$7td$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  	 > writes: < >> Being able to download the applications is useless if you$ >> haven't got the PAKs to run them. > I >    For "fairly obvious" reasons DEC announced the LMF (which implements E >    the PAK scheme) as a "license management facility, not a license D >    enforcement facility".  The downloads are not useless without a	 >    PAK.  >  Oh, please do explain.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:27:17 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download0 Message-ID: <BEE21D25.10102%roktsci@comcast.net>  H On 6/24/05 8:57 AM, in article 42BC2D81.50D57E5@teksavvy.com, "JF Mezei"% <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Dave Froble wrote:E >> As other have said, you're opening yourself up to some potentially  >> serious legal action by HP. > G > I don't think that the first step HP would take is to hire lawyers to E > instigate a serious legal action. My guess is that they would use a H > normal employee to send a letter to the person advising them that this > is not legal.   H You are right, they wouldn't hire any lawyers. They already have a whole* floor of them looking for something to do. > G > If the person then relies "I am sorry, I di not know if it was legal, C > and that he would be willing to work with HP to find ways to make G > software media available to hobbysists, then my guess is that nothing B > would escalate to "legal" threaths and perhaps it would put someH > priority to the issue of finding an acceptable way to provide media to > hobbyists. > F >> I'd suggest just as publically announcing that you've withdrawn the >> software.   > J > No, I would wait for HP to contact him. But I would most certaintly stop > advertising it though.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:30:32 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download0 Message-ID: <11bpqr7eeabv01d@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Opcom wrote: > B >>There is a VMS dist. for VAX and Alpha hobbyists, or used to be,A >>which could be bought from Montagar Software. This was even one < >>of the answers given by to a hobbyist by "ask the wizard". >  > C > The CD which you can buy at a very reasonable price from the fins D > Montagar folks doesn't contains half of the software the hobbyistsJ > programme entitles on to.  There is a real need to provide access to the% > real CDs to download specific kits.  > F > As such, there is a need to talk to HP about methods to control suchG > downloads and limit it to hobbyists so that we get access to the kits 9 > and HO is comfortable that such sustem won't be abused.  > H > There are plenty of us willing to offer hosting/bandwidth to help withH > the distribution.  And from what I have been told, this issue has beenJ > on the back burner for years, and perhaps it is time to push it forwards > and get it done.   Not speaking for HP.  H I believe the issues involve some licensed technology that has been put D into parts of VMS.  That's why some layered products are NOT in the  hobbyist program.   H I'd think that if there weren't such obsticles, along with the legality I of some of the software making it to some countries, that there would be  # an official site hosting downloads.   @ As has been mentioned, much of this stuff can be found, but the + availability isn't broadcast to the public.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:49:48 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download0 Message-ID: <11bprv95c6e7t83@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > D >>HP, like any corporation, already employs more than enough lawyers >>to handle this.  >  > H > How much would the legal, department charge VMS department for writingJ > of the letter ? Do you really think that HP as a corporation will noticeI > this ? In all likelyhood, some VMS employee would have seen the message $ > and told VMS management about it.  >  > G >>Isn't that like saying I'll just keep speeding and running stop signs G >>till someone tells me to stop?  The law is quite clear.  And there is ? >>no requirement for HP to be nice guys and just say, "Stop".    >  >  > H > There is no requirement, you are correct. But consider that HP doesn'tG > see VMS as strategic, it doesn't advertise it, no longer sells VAXes, J > and is soon to stop selling Alphas.  While HP have every right to pounceH > on the nice chap, my guess is that they won't. They are too big a fishJ > to be bothered by some silly little bothersome VMS issue of distributing > software for dead products.  >  > E > If the chap had been distributing proprietary EFI software for IA64 F > systems or proprietary Windows drivers, then it is likely they wouldH > have sent a court "cease and desist" order before even sending a angry > lawyer's letter. >  > J > And in terms of Digital-heritage management's protection of intellectualF > property, do I need to remind you that Digital turned a blind eye onF > Intel stealing Alpha IP for years and only brought the issue up onlyJ > once Palmer had runned out of ways to raise money and then went to Intel" > to beg for some financial help ? > G > Need I remind you that digital heritage people donated a lot of VMS's I > leading edge IP to Microsoft in exchange for the right to sell Windows, 6 > something Microsoft does to anyone who asks for it ? > E > And you're worried that HP would think this donloading of a few VMS N > specific files that need a licence to be of any use is a huge problem ??????  E JF.  You keep ignoring the posts that refer to parts of the software  ; coming from other sources, which require royalties be paid.   . One poster also mentioned export restrictions.  3 Ignoring these issues doesn't make them irrelavant.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:45:57 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download0 Message-ID: <11bpro1ora49s22@corp.supernews.com>   Tom Linden wrote: . > On 24 Jun 2005 16:21:28 -0500, Bob Koehler  2 > <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: > G >> In article <d9h668$7td$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk   
 >> writes: >>= >>> Being able to download the applications is useless if you % >>> haven't got the PAKs to run them.  >> >>J >>    For "fairly obvious" reasons DEC announced the LMF (which implementsF >>    the PAK scheme) as a "license management facility, not a licenseE >>    enforcement facility".  The downloads are not useless without a 
 >>    PAK. >> > Oh, please do explain. >   H It's not too dificult to break the LMF.  No, I'm not going to say more. H   People don'tneed any clues.  If HP doesn't get revenues for VMS, then $ what do they pay the engineers with?  ) You should understand this real well Tom.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:01:09 -0400 # From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> % Subject: Web Services Integration Kit / Message-ID: <11bp7m7c9njgbc@corp.supernews.com>   K The WSI docs mention it was tested using BASIC, the kit does not ship with  H Basic sample programs... has anyone whipped up a sample they can share?    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:26:56 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Wget 1.9.1d exists.2 Message-ID: <05062420265592_20200298@antinode.org>  =    A new(er) Wget 1.9.1d kit is available in the usual place:   .       http://www.antinode.org/dec/sw/wget.html2       ftp://ftp.antinode.org/wget/wget-1_9_1d_vms/  C    The details are all there, but the major functional change since H 1.9.1c is a fix to the ASCII FTP transfer code.  Previously, if the userF specified an ASCII FTP transfer, Wget told the server "TYPE A", but itF did nothing special with the resulting FTP-standard CR-LF line endingsH when it stored the data.  The result was typically a file with undesiredE CR characters at line ends.  (I assume that Windows users were happy, # but a Linux user noticed this bug.)   H    I also added the usual RMS file I/O speed-up features, as seen in theH newer Info-ZIP programs (and just about every other program I've touched lately).  E    The current Wget version (recently released) is 1.10, which offers H large-file (>2GB) support.  Sadly, my efforts to get my VMS changes intoF the main Wget development stream have had somewhere between little andA no effect.  (I lead, but the horse appears not to be thirsty.)  I E haven't given up yet, but my even my usual low expectations have been D too high of late.  It's annoying.  On the bright side, it's probable6 that the ASCII FTP fix is not yet available elsewhere.  F    As always, complaints are welcome.  (Relevant ones are more welcome than others, of course.)  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.352 ************************