1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 25 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 353       Contents:3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm ) Re: mc writeboot on a backuped/image disk + Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC ) Problem booting VMS CD on Alpha PWS 500au  Re: rename of system disks Re: rename of system disks Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: Revival of Alpha? 
 stunnel v4.x? " Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report" Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report- Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generator ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download   Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 25 Jun 2005 16:11:12 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm+ Message-ID: <3i5e10Fjrs9uU2@individual.net>   - In article <874qbmsrqf.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,  	prep@prep.synonet.com writes:7 > "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> writes:  >  >> JF Mezei wrote: >  >>> "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: > D >>>> I actually agree on this, but JF's posts are so full of whiningG >>>> and bizarre conspiracy theories (the CIA is now producing "The Bin  >>>> Laden Tapes" apparently)  > E >>> I didn't say they were producing them. Just that I have not ruled F >>> out foul play by the american government. It is perfectly possibleG >>> that the CIA (or other 3 letter acronym dept of the USA) would have F >>> produced many of the tapes since 9-11, especially those just prior >>> to the 2004 election). >  >> I rest my case. > 4 > Ah, so can you answer a couple of quick questions. >  > Who was Tim Olsen?   Jimmie Olsen's grandson?   > ! > Who was Bush's `Our Friend...'?   5 One of the aliens that landed at Roswell in the 50's.   > There, that ties all the conspiracy theories together finally.   bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 18:00:59 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 2 Subject: Re: mc writeboot on a backuped/image disk- Message-ID: <87vf42rc10.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes:   C > How do you write the boot block of a disk that you just populated E > with a standalone backup/init/ver/ima from a VMS distribution disk?   . > Does the /image copy the boot block as well?  F When a /IMAGE save set is written, backup sniffs the boot block and ifB it is valid finds the file it points into. This is then tracked on> restore and a new boot block with the correct devise offset is@ written. Note, it is not a copy in fact, but seems to be one for most purposes.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:20:21 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>4 Subject: Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC+ Message-ID: <42BD9255.C3EC0609@comcast.net>    "Steven M. Schweda" wrote: > 4 > From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> >  > > $! Make a diskette image" > > $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOASSIST DVA0: > > $ COPY DVA0: DK1.IMGI > > $! The COPY will terminate with an error, but the file will be intact  > > $ DISM DVA0: > > # > > $! Copy diskette image to media   > > $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOASSI DVA0: > > $ COPY DK1.IMG DVA0: > > $ DISM DVA0: > = >    I prefer BACKUP /PHYSICAL.  No unsightly error messages.  > / > alp $ mount /noassist /foreign /nowrite dva0: 9 > alp $ backup /physical /verify dva0: flop.bup /save_set 3 > %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification pass  > alp $ dismount dva0: > & > alp $ mount /noassist /foreign dva0:9 > alp $ backup /physical /verify flop.bup /save_set dva0: 3 > %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification pass  > alp $ dismount dva0:  E Can a /PHYSICAL backup saveset be transferred to another platform and = written to diskette with either RaWrite(DOS/Win) or dd(UN*X)?   G Diskette images written with either DOSIMAGE(?) or dd can be written on : VMS using the second example (MOUNT/FOREIGN, COPY), above.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jun 2005 10:02:06 -0700) From: "doub1eedge" <doub1eedge@yahoo.com> 2 Subject: Problem booting VMS CD on Alpha PWS 500auC Message-ID: <1119715797.403545.135050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hello,  E I'm trying to install VMS on an Alpha PWS 500au.  I've read that this E can be done provided the machine is configured properly, but I've yet D to find exact details about this so I've giving it a run with what I have.   / I can offer the following info about my system:   N ==============================================================================5 THE FOLLOWING IS THE OUTPUT OF THE "show dev" COMMAND N ============================================================================== >>>show dev D dka0.0.0.1010.0            DKA0       QUANTUM VIKING II 9.1WLS  5531D dka400.4.0.1010.0          DKA400      COMPAQ CD-ROM CR-503BCQ  1.1i dva0.0.0.0.1               DVA0 > ewa0.0.0.3.0               EWA0              00-00-F8-75-AF-BD> ewb0.0.0.1009.0            EWB0              00-00-E8-2B-B6-00D pka0.7.0.1010.0            PKA0                  SCSI Bus ID 7  5.57> pqa0.0.0.4.0               PQA0                       PCI EIDE> pqb0.0.1.4.0               PQB0                       PCI EIDEN ==============================================================================8 THE FOLLOWING IS THE OUTPUT OF THE "show config" COMMANDN ============================================================================== >>>show config   Firmware SRM Console:    V7.0-10  ARC Console:    5.67: PALcode:        VMS PALcode V1.20-14, OSF PALcode V1.22-17 SROM Version:   v5.90   	 Processor 8 DECchip (tm) 21164A-2   Pass   500 MHz  96 KBytes SCache 2 MB BCache  PYXIS ASIC Pass 257    MEMORY     Memory Size = 512Mb    Bank      Size/Sets   Base Addr  ------    ----------  ---------     2        512Mb      00000000      BCache Size = 2Mb    Tested Memory =  512Mbytes   PCI Bus D      Bus 00  Slot 03: Digital Semiconductor 21143 Network Controller/                                    ewa0.0.0.3.0  00-00-F8-75-AF-BD         Bus 00  Slot 04: PCI IDE A                                    pqa0.0.0.4.0          PCI EIDE   %      Bus 00  Slot 07: Intel SIO 82378     5      Bus 00  Slot 20: DECchip 21052 PCI to PCI Bridge 2        Bus 01  Slot 08: Vendor: 104c  Device: 3d078        Bus 01  Slot 09: DECchip 21140 Network Controller2                                    ewb0.0.0.1009.0 00-00-E8-2B-B6-00   /        Bus 01  Slot 10: ISP1040 Scsi Controller F                                    pka0.7.0.1010.0       SCSI Bus ID 7A                                    dka0.0.0.1010.0        QUANTUM  VIKING II 9.G                                    dka400.4.0.1010.0      COMPAQ CD-ROM  CR-503   ISA C Slot    Device  Name            Type         Enabled  BaseAddr  IRQ  DMA  0 B         0       MOUSE           Embedded        Yes     60      12A         1       KBD             Embedded        Yes     60      1 A         2       COM1            Embedded        Yes     3f8     4 A         3       COM2            Embedded        Yes     2f8     3 A         4       LPT1            Embedded        Yes     3bc     7 A         5       FLOPPY          Embedded        Yes     3f0     6  2 B         6       EIDE            Embedded        Yes     1f0     14B                                                         3f6     15;                                                         170 ;                                                         376 A         7       ES1888          Embedded        Yes     220     5  1 N ==============================================================================8 THE FOLLOWING IS THE OUTPUT OF THE "boot dka400" COMMANDN ============================================================================== >>>boot dka400! (boot dka400.4.0.1010.0 -flags A) 2 block 0 of dka400.4.0.1010.0 is a valid boot block) reading 896 blocks from dka400.4.0.1010.0  bootstrap code read in3 base = 1f0000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 70000  initializing HWRPB at 2000! initializing page table at 1e2000  initializing machine state# setting affinity to the primary CPU  jumping to bootstrap code     5     OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.2   N ==============================================================================  D The above is all I get from booting the CDROM.  The behavior is suchB that the system seems to be active for a consistent amount of timeG after entering the boot command, during which I can see and hear the HD F and CDROM both being accessed.  The lights for both are active until aF certain point, at which BOTH go solid GREEN.  I don't think the systemC is locked up at this point since I can still activate the CAPS LOCK E key, but nothing else happens - even after letting it sit for over an  hour.   C Can anyone shed any light?  Do I have a configuration problem, do I A need newer firmware or VMS version?  Can this simply NOT BE DONE?   5 I'd GREATLY APPRECIATE any information or info leads.    Thanks and Regards   -dying to run VMS @ home!    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 17:13:48 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) # Subject: Re: rename of system disks ( Message-ID: <d9k3cc$u96$1@pcls4.std.com>  ) Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:    >DerekB wrote:* >> That's it! That' what I was forgetting. >>  
 >> Thanks!	 >> -Derek  >>    B >Why do I get the feeling that there will soon be questions about ' >problems after changing the node name?   J Yup. Which will it be?  Can't join cluster because SCSNODE was changed butD SCSSYSTEMID wasn't?  Queues messed up?  Won't boot because of system* disk already mounted?  DECnet won't start?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:30:05 +0200 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de># Subject: Re: rename of system disks , Message-ID: <qa4k9d.m02.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   Michael Moroney schrieb:  + > Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >  >  >>DerekB wrote:  >>* >>>That's it! That' what I was forgetting. >>> 
 >>>Thanks!	 >>>-Derek  >>>  >  > C >>Why do I get the feeling that there will soon be questions about  ( >>problems after changing the node name? >  > L > Yup. Which will it be?  Can't join cluster because SCSNODE was changed butF > SCSSYSTEMID wasn't?  Queues messed up?  Won't boot because of system, > disk already mounted?  DECnet won't start?  > TCPIP won't start (you have to reconfigure nearly everything).   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 02:00:31 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?, Message-ID: <42BCF2FF.99A8A035@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:J > Microsoft didn't provide Alpha versions of much of their software.  ThatI > was their part in killing Alpha NT.  However, as long as DEC/Compaq was I > paying for all the Alpha NT development and support, Microsoft appeared  > to be happy.    D Yes, because once it became clear that Palmer was talking to Compaq,H Microsoft saw that once Compaq got Alpha, it would give Alpha the chanceB to succeed it never got under Digital. So Windows was kept on lifeD support on Alpha. Had Pfeiffer stayed longer after the absolbrion ofH digital, my guess is that alpha would have had a different biography and8 it might be IA64 that was declared dead on June 25 2001.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 18:21:24 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?- Message-ID: <87mzperb2z.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   - Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> writes:   ( > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005, Dan Foster wrote:@ >> In article <42ba4bc2$0$67255$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>,/ >> Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> wrote:   8 >>> You are right that x86 has four levels of privilege.  F >> I should also point out that Alpha had only two privilege levels inC >> the CPU, if my recollection is correct. It handled the other two 2 >> privilege levels through trapped PALcode calls.  B >> Ah, yes, here is a reference from a well-known person here. :-)  H >> http://h20276.www2.hp.com/blogs/hoffman/2005/03/30/1112218119000.html  B >> So, it is not necessarily a can't-do item if a CPU has only two@ >> privilege levels, if it has some way of emulating the others.   Go read the ARM..   H > Hmm.  I certainly wouldn't want to cross swords with an authority suchH > as Hoff.  I will make the following (perhaps feeble) argument in favor7 > of considering the Alpha as a four-privilege machine.   > > Most of the complicated instructions needed by VMS that wereF > implemented in microcode on VAX (and therefore considered to be partF > of the hardware) were implemented in PALcode on the Alpha.  Examples@ > include complicated sequences of instructions that have to runE > atomically such as INSQUE and REMQUE as well as CHMK, CHME etc.  In @ > fact, the internal processor registers, including the PSL, are& > implemented in PALcode on the Alpha.  E > So ... if the Alpha + VMS PALcode can be considered the hardware in @ > the same way that the VAX + microcode is, then the Alpha + VMS& > PALcode is a four-privilege machine.  F The Alpha IS a 4 level CPU. Well, 5 if you allow PALcode to be counted8 on its own. Look at the PSW and the TLB protection bits.  E > I'll admit that PALcode is a special case; I'm not aware of another F > processor that has anything similar to PALcode.  And I'll admit that > I'm out on a limb here.   C Well, S/38 aka AS400 in later life would I think, though in a whole D different way. They call it `microcode', and it is not what the rest  of the world means by microcode.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 18:14:26 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?- Message-ID: <87r7eqrbel.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   - Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> writes:   A > No.  Xeons supporting EMT64 (x86-64), being an extension of x86 ? > Xeons, have the same privilege levels.  Intel didn't drop any ? > privilege levels when they added the 64-bit extensions to the  > instruction set.  G Are you SURE of this? It is not what I have read, though my reading was 
 about AMD64s.   B > Itanium has four privilege levels also.  See section 3.1 on pageF > 2-13 of the Itanium Architecture Software Developer's Manual, Volume > 2: System Architecture, D > (ftp://download.intel.com/design/Itanium/manuals/245318.pdf) which > reads:   >    3.1 Privilege Levels   I >    Four privilege levels, numbered from 0 to 3, are provided to control M >    access to system instructions, system registers and system memory areas. M >    Level 0 is the most privileged and level 3 the least privileged .... The L >    processor maintains a Current Privilege Level (CPL) in the cpl field of) >    the Processor Status Register (PSR).   : > That quote could almost have been lifted out of a VAX/11  > Architecture Reference Manual.     --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:02:15 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?+ Message-ID: <42BD8006.5922D10@teksavvy.com>    prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:I > Are you SURE of this? It is not what I have read, though my reading was  > about AMD64s.   B Consider why AMD went with the 64 bit 8086: They wanted to trounceG Intel's proprietary IA64 and force Intel to move the 64 bit 8086 up and B kill IA64. Remember that AMD stood to go to the cemetary had IntelE succeeded in making IA64 industry standard from laptop to data centre  since it was proprietary.   F Now, if you're going to scale the 8086 to 64 bit with fancy enterprise@ level system features with an eye to being a target platform forE enterprise systems such as Solaris, Linux, Hp-UX, NSK and VMS, do you A really think you would remove features such as addressing modes ?   B Since they claim that their 64 bit 8086 is upwards compatible withH current 32 bit 8086s, I would find it quite odd that they would not haveD supported every feature found in current 32 bit 8086s and in fact, IF would think that AMD would have gone the extra mile to ensure that its7 64 bit 8086 could eventually do everything IA64 can do.   H Now, if they did actually remove addressing modes, they are plain stupid3 and I suspect they would get added back in by 2007.    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jun 2005 13:46:39 GMT3 From: DAVISM@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis)  Subject: stunnel v4.x?: Message-ID: <d9jn7v$psn$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  E 	I know that stunnel v3.26 is available for free from HP.  Since v4.x M is available from stunnel.org, has anyone set about porting this to VMS?  Or, L are the necessary modifications for building under VMS already included with v4?    Thanks,  Mike --I                                          |    Systems Specialist: CBE,MSE L              Michael T. Davis            | Departmental Networking/ComputingH  http://www.ecr6.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ |     The Ohio State UniversityH                                          |     197 Watts, (614) 292-6928   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 13:10:57 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG+ Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report 0 Message-ID: <00A45CEE.4305A753@SendSpamHere.ORG>  g In article <1119645936.039074.215890@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com writes:  {...snip...}> >On Monday morning Colin Butcher from the UK received the JohnD >Wisniewski Spirit Award. This award is given to a member of the VMSG >Community who most shows the same spirit as our friend John Wisniewski G >who passed away last year.  John had passion, integrity and excitement F >to communicate about VMS and technology and it is truly a pleasure toC >work with people of the same caliber.  Ann McQuaid gave Colin this + >award after her keynote on Monday morning.   C It's wonderful having such a fine proponent of VMS in such an elite 
 group.  ;)    F >Because the Boot camp is designed to be flexible we did need to run aA >Introductory VMS class, based on audience request that Tom Moran  >taught, this class was full.    Crap!  And I missed it.     H >HP corporate sent evaluations to the attendees 123 of the 200 responded5 >with an official rating of 4.6 out of a possible 5.0     What was the selection criteria?   --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:11:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report * Message-ID: <42BD8248.405C2A@teksavvy.com>  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: >  > Dear Newsgroup, F > I sent this out to my email distribution yesterday.  Reading it now,; > its probably a little personal but VMS is personal to me.   H You are aware Sue, that many have called it the Sueposium, are you ?????  # Nice report. wish I were there !!!!   F Do you have a feeling that you will need a bigger venue eventually, orH will you force it to stay at 200 max to keep it small and manageable andK more personal ? (when too big, attendees tend to lose access to engineers).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:29:09 +1000 6 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au>6 Subject: Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generatorX Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE4E@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C57968.56D42D11 . Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable          -----Original Message-----3 From: Gorazd Kikelj [mailto:gorazd.kikelj@siol.net]  Sent: Fri 6/24/2005 3:27 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 Subject: Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generator =20  >"Chuck Aaron" >Group, F > I need a complete OpenVMS system monitor tool, that will monitor CPUE spikes, usage and all else that will create log files and reports for , security audit reviews. Any recommendations?  K T4 is a good candidate. You will find it on SYS$ETC (OVMS 7.3-2) or you can * download it from the web. V4 is out there.   Best, Gorazd   ****  L Surely, it should be easy to write your own specific needs in a .COM using =L the (F$GETSYI and friends) lexicals.  There are many such in the free DCL w= orld.    Regards, Paddy    G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged @ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 ? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************     ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C57968.56D42D11 - Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>L <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> K <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0"> @ <TITLE>Re: System Monitor Tool &amp; Strong PW generator</TITLE> </HEAD>  <BODY>) <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->  <BR> <BR> <BR>  0 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR>L From: Gorazd Kikelj [<A HREF=3D"mailto:gorazd.kikelj@siol.net">mailto:goraz= d.kikelj@siol.net</A>]<BR> Sent: Fri 6/24/2005 3:27 PM<BR>  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<BR> > Subject: Re: System Monitor Tool &amp; Strong PW generator<BR> <BR> &gt;&quot;Chuck Aaron&quot;<BR>  &gt;Group,<BR>L &gt; I need a complete OpenVMS system monitor tool, that will monitor CPU<B= R>I spikes, usage and all else that will create log files and reports for<BR> 0 security audit reviews. Any recommendations?<BR> <BR>L T4 is a good candidate. You will find it on SYS$ETC (OVMS 7.3-2) or you can= <BR>. download it from the web. V4 is out there.<BR> <BR> Best, Gorazd<BR> <BR> ****<BR> <BR>L Surely, it should be easy to write your own specific needs in a .COM using =L the (F$GETSYI and friends) lexicals.&nbsp; There are many such in the free = DCL world.<BR> <BR> Regards, Paddy<BR> </FONT>  </P>   <FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>  <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  <BR>G "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged<BR> B and confidential information intended only for the use of the <BR>F addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of <BR>G this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise<BR> F the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, <BR>; distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.<BR>  <BR>E If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid <BR> E immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the <BR> A individual sender except where the sender expressly and with <BR> G authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses<BR> B virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses<BR>  contained in any attachment.<BR> <BR>@ Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now<BR>( firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"<BR> <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  </FONT>  </BODY>  </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C57968.56D42D11--    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 02:14:13 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download+ Message-ID: <42BCF634.87CD145@teksavvy.com>    Dave Froble wrote:F > JF.  You keep ignoring the posts that refer to parts of the software= > coming from other sources, which require royalties be paid.    No, I am not ignoring them.   G The hobbyist licences cover a very large list of products. The hobbyist @ CD covers only a small subset of the licensed hobbyist products.  H For Motif, now that motif is open sourced for non0proprietary platforms,F the owner of VMS got agreement from the open motif folks to allow freeG distribution of motif to thsoe who don't pay for VMS licences. (you can E download the mtif source code now that it is open, but of course, the L current code is much more advanced than the archaic Motif available on VMS).  0 > One poster also mentioned export restrictions.  D Again, those export restrictions apply to the hobbysist programme asO well, so if you don't have licences for the product, the kit is rather useless.   C I fully agree that the downloading of kits has to have controls and D restrictions to it to prevent abuse. But hobbysist shoudl be able to7 download any kit for which there are hobbyist licences.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:45:59 +1200 $ From: "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download4 Message-ID: <_V7ve.10142$U4.1329500@news.xtra.co.nz>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message % news:3i31isFjbqt3U1@individual.net...   7 > In article <d9hiku$ve9$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>, , > m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) writes:  J > > But still this doesn't answer the question why AIX, Solaris, HP-UX etc@ > > can happily live w/o PAKs whereas the DEC-legacy OSes can't.F > > Those companies don't seem to care if their media are sold on eBay> > > and run by a handful of people at home. And rightfully so,@ > > since these people hardly endanger their business, and being* > > generous can OTOH be good advertising. > E > Well, when you own VMS you will be free to use such an arrangement. D > But right now, it belongs to HP and they, too, are free to licenseE > it any way they wish.  None of this gives anyone the right to steal 
 > HP's IP.  I I'm afraid I have to second the above opinion. Never mind if do or do not  likeJ that decision (I don't) but it *is* in fact their property and they get to do want H they want with it (subject to legal regulations of course). Note that HP actuallyL *bought* the rights to VMS. So, if you want to change the course, just raiseG enough capital, make them a good enough and they probably won't object.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:45:32 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for downloadL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2506050645320001@user-105n8cn.dialup.mindspring.com>  E In article <d9hklm$gh$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>, m.kraemer@gsi.de  (Michael Kraemer) wrote:    0 >In which way do I "steal" IP from HP this way ?9 >I buy used equipment from somebody how as bought it from @ >somebody else who has paid money to HP for the fresh equipment./ >If I buy a used car, do I "steal" it from GM ?  > ; >Now if I replicated the stuff and sold it for own account,   >that would be theft, of course.  J Because the fellow you bought the system from didn't own the software.  HeI owned a license to use it under specific terms.  Those terms typically do H no include the right to transfer the license to a 3rd party (you), or to' extend the license to multiple parties.   J HP owns the software.  To use it legally, you need HP's permission, in the form of a license.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:42:35 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for downloadL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2506050642360001@user-105n8cn.dialup.mindspring.com>  E In article <d9hk9t$b7$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>, m.kraemer@gsi.de  (Michael Kraemer) wrote:  6 >In article <42BC5224.2B89D1E3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei& <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > C >> I think that Motif and TCPIP as well as the C compiler should be H >> operable with just the VMS licence and not require their own licence. > A >It would already be a gain if Motif and TCPIP would be included. 4 >A C compiler would be nice-to-have, but not a must,D >given the fact that commercial Unices don't include it anymore too.  E Network and Windowing licences have been bundled with VMS systems for J maybe 15 years or so.  The PAK names have changed a few times, "EnterpriseH Integration Package", and "NET-APP-SUP-*" being bundled with new systemsE at various times.  Virtually all customers who bought new VMS systems  received these licenses.  E The hobbyist, educational, and and CSLG programs do supply individual J PAKs, but they are delivered in one big DCL command file so you never have to deal with them individually.   H On Itanium, the PAKs have been reorganized.  The bundle includes the OS,H unlimited users, networks, DECwindows, and various layered products, all in a single PAK per system.   H PAKs have always been available for individual products, but in practiceG they have been sold mostly in the bundles.  The "PAK hell" you describe 3 exists mostly in your mind, or in the distant past.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 06:34:50 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download( Message-ID: <opssxhcclkzgicya@hyrrokkin>  G On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:45:57 -0400, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>    wrote:   > Tom Linden wrote: 0 >> On 24 Jun 2005 16:21:28 -0500, Bob Koehler   3 >> <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:  >>I >>> In article <d9h668$7td$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk     >>> writes:  >>> > >>>> Being able to download the applications is useless if you& >>>> haven't got the PAKs to run them. >>>  >>> K >>>    For "fairly obvious" reasons DEC announced the LMF (which implements G >>>    the PAK scheme) as a "license management facility, not a license F >>>    enforcement facility".  The downloads are not useless without a >>>    PAK.  >>>  >> Oh, please do explain.  >> > K > It's not too dificult to break the LMF.  No, I'm not going to say more.   K >   People don'tneed any clues.  If HP doesn't get revenues for VMS, then   & > what do they pay the engineers with? > + > You should understand this real well Tom.   E I do.  What I was driving at is that HP probably doesn't allow free   	 downloads K because LMF can be defeated, and this way they can keep track of whom has    what. H Of course you can log and record all downloads, as we do,  and you can   validate/ IP's and so on, but that also is easy to spoof.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 25 Jun 05 12:19:36 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download, Message-ID: <XZednaH9mMkE9yDfRVn-hw@rcn.net>  6 In article <Xns967FDE695DF3dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>,(    "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> wrote:) >%NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Bill Gunshannon wrote in $ >news:3i31isFjbqt3U1@individual.net  >  ><snip>  > F >> Well, when you own VMS you will be free to use such an arrangement.E >> But right now, it belongs to HP and they, too, are free to license F >> it any way they wish.  None of this gives anyone the right to steal >> HP's IP.  > L >This is exactly the point I tried to make in the first place.  None of the A >people involved in the "debate" have the right to decide on how  H >distribution is handled, so their "suggestions" have very little value. > I >There are constraints as a result of what is considered "interpersonal"  L >sharing, live within them and HP will ignore you completely.  Live outside ( >them, and you are inviting prosecution.  = It's worse than that.  If HP notices and objects, the fucking ; idiot has queered it for everybody else, past, present, and  especially future.  ? Nobody will be able to learn how a well-mannered OS is supposed  to act.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jun 2005 16:03:08 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download+ Message-ID: <3i5dhsFjrs9uU1@individual.net>   , In article <XZednaH9mMkE9yDfRVn-hw@rcn.net>, 	jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:8 > In article <Xns967FDE695DF3dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>,* >    "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> wrote:* >>%NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Bill Gunshannon wrote in% >>news:3i31isFjbqt3U1@individual.net   >> >><snip> >>G >>> Well, when you own VMS you will be free to use such an arrangement. F >>> But right now, it belongs to HP and they, too, are free to licenseG >>> it any way they wish.  None of this gives anyone the right to steal  >>> HP's IP. >>M >>This is exactly the point I tried to make in the first place.  None of the  B >>people involved in the "debate" have the right to decide on how I >>distribution is handled, so their "suggestions" have very little value.  >>J >>There are constraints as a result of what is considered "interpersonal" M >>sharing, live within them and HP will ignore you completely.  Live outside  ) >>them, and you are inviting prosecution.  > ? > It's worse than that.  If HP notices and objects, the fucking = > idiot has queered it for everybody else, past, present, and  > especially future. > A > Nobody will be able to learn how a well-mannered OS is supposed 	 > to act.  >   H Which is why I used the PDP-11 example.  Very much because of hobbyist'sG cavalier attitude regarding Mentec's IP the only hobbyist's who can run G RSTS, RSX or RT-11 are those who's moral code allows them to ignore the G IP Rights of others.  Sadly, this punishes the innocent while having no E effect on the guilty, but I can certainly see Mentec's point of view. D It would be a real shame if the actions of a few were to cause HP to affect the same attitude.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jun 2005 09:59:18 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for downloadB Message-ID: <1119718758.421245.44840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:9 > In article <Xns967FDFA4867B3dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>, ) > 	"Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> writes: I > > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, JF Mezei wrote in news:42BC3A7B.39777090@teksavvy.com  > >  [...] L > > Push comes to shove if HP decides to take OpenVMS off the market, at theL > > moment that doesn't seem likely.  If it happens, I'll review my positionG > > on the distribution of material which others hold the copyright on.  > A > Why?  How does their taking it off the market in any way affect A > their ownership of it?  It is their property to do with as they A > wish.  If they wish to see it end, then so be it.  It would not A > be the first OS to suffer such a fate and probably won't be the  > last.   F Ownership does not always imply such. Look at patents, trademarks, andD copyrights. These all expire. For example, take Exxon. Exxon used toC sell gasoline under three brand names: Esso, Humble, and Enco. Back G (uh, way back!) then, the brand you'd see at the pump varied with where G you were. I don't remember the exact reason, but it had something to do D with not being able to use certain brands in certain states. Anyway,A that's another story. Now, every once in a while you see a little E inconspicuous Esso sticker on an Exxon gas pump. Why? Because the law D says that if the trademark goes unused, it becomes freely available.D (BTW, AFAIK, Exxon still sells gasoline under the brand name Esso in1 Europe and perhaps all other non-U.S. countries.)   G Now, I don't know what the rules are on source code, but it seems to me A somehow wrong that something in demand for good reasons should be G allowed to die at the whim of the owner. Of course, the difference here A between brand names and source code is that while one can destroy F source code, one cannot destroy a trademark "source", i.e., one cannotG erase from the world's collective memory that Esso is a brand name of a F popular product and keep said trademark out of the hands of others. Of, course, ... (fill in other differences) ....   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:34:10 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download+ Message-ID: <42BD9592.AF5957F1@comcast.net>    Hans wrote:  > [snip]
 > The address D > > is 68.35.167.136 and the username is vaxsoftware. No password is > > needed. [snip] >  > Dear Phillip > 4 > No entry to your server possible without password.   This URL did work in Netscape:  3 ftp: slash slash vaxsoftware at 68.35.167.136 slash   D It also worked in InterHose Exploder, but IE chokes on the NLST data) (display is useless for point-and-click).   : Neither works as of the moment (25-Jun-2005 12:33 CDT US).  F I'm guessing he's either removed the content or added the password (of both) for his own reasons.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 17:53:10 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com ) Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe - Message-ID: <87zmterce1.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   5 "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:   M >>   Interesting.  I don't recall a PL/I compiler in the days when the VAX-11 # >>   series was the VAX model line.   C > Having just dug up a copy of my C.V. for Didier, I can testify to D > the fact that in 1983 I was studying at Perth Tech. using the PL/ID > compiler (a second year unit) on VAX/VMS. I think it was an 11/750, > but they soon moved to 11/780 then 11/785.  L Nope, it was a 780 then. I know because I compiles SPICE on it and everthingN stopped because no one had told me that the account run at prio 15 by default!  D > Ahhh, but life was simple then. . .no pressure; only fun. . .JamesF > St wasn't closed off. . .beer and Plaka kebabs were cheap. . .and weE > all got Friday afternoons off to go to the beach. . . Now where did  > I leave that womb :-)   E > I actually liked PL/I, but then I *LOVED* RSTS/E Basic-plus-2 *AND* F > VAX BASIC. But hey, someone told me that COBOL would be my bread andE > butter, and they weren't far wrong. (RSTS/E Assembler has also seen - > me through some sticky situations as well!)   ) You didn't know Bruce Cook by any chance?    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.353 ************************