1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 26 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 354       Contents:! Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP ! Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP ! Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP  Re: Encompassus membership Re: Encompassus membership: Re: Encompassus membership (was:Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program): Re: Encompassus membership (was:Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program) HTML to text Re: HTML to text Re: HTML to text+ Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC  OpenVMS Hobby Program  Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program  Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program  Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program  Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program - Re: Problem booting VMS CD on Alpha PWS 500au - Re: Problem booting VMS CD on Alpha PWS 500au  Re: rename of system disks Re: rename of system disks Re: Revival of Alpha?  Re: State of the art? " Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report" Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report" Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report" Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report" Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report" Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report" Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report" Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report" Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report" Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report- Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generator " This is working for me$$$$$$$$$$$$' Re: VAX software available for download   Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:56:15 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP+ Message-ID: <42BD9ABE.7BE6A591@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: H > > To speak the plain truth, what we *REALLY* need is a FAL service forG > > TCP/IP and changes to the underlying infrastructure to handle that.  > G > FAL ? Perhaps update the file system to understand URL specifications I > and call the right shareable image to handle file access to those URLs.  > K > eg: copy ftp:host.chocolate.com"user pass"/dir1/dir2/file.ext  []file.ext   G The entire P1 string would need to be enclosed in quotes, unless you're E proposing re-engineering DCL from the ground up to somehow divine the D diference between a foreign path element and a positional qualifier.  1 > perhaps for FTP they could have ftpA for ascii    
 How 'bout:  D $ copy/ftp "user:pass@host.chocolate.com/dir1/dir2/file.ext"/ASCII -  []file.ext   * > ... and ftp or ftpI for image transfers.  G $ copy/ftp "user:pass@host.chocolate.com::/dir1/dir2/file.ext"/BINARY -   []file.ext   F ...which is closer what we already have today? (The default could evenE be /VMS_STRUCTURE or /RMS_STRUCTURE for transfers between VMS systems @ without DECnet connectivity (drat those network guys, anyways!).  C With this scheme, the $PARSE service could be made sensitive to the E presence of certain elements in the filespec or access control string F (the colon separating user and pass without "[" which usually delimitsF the beginning of the path specification, the "@" sign and the multipleC periods ("dots") in the host name (precedes the double-colon) which   could be either IP or DECnet-V).  ; > you could also support HTTP: requests for read operations   0 Integrate WGET functionality into COPY? Hhmmm...  I > what would REALLY be needed is the ability to have f$search work on ftp G > directories just like it can work on decnet or decnet/sna directories   A What I had in mind could be made to allow that by providing a FAL ? service for IP similar to that already provided by DECnet. Ala:   4 $ SRC_FSP = "user:pass@node.domain.tld::/usr/bin/ls"( $ IF F$SEARCH( SRC_FSP ) .NES. "" THEN - $ SAY " Target O.K."  F An optional qualifier could even be added to certain verbs, if needed:  E $ COPY[/FAL] [access_control_string@]node.domain.tld::filespec target    - or -  E $ COPY[/FAL] filespec [access_control_string@]node.domain.tld::target    - or even -   @ $ COPY[/FAL] [access_control_string@]node.domain.tld::filespec -0  [access_control_string@]node.domain.tld::target  > ...using the existing proxy and trust relationship mechanisms.  F The hard part would likely be teaching $PARSE to work without the "::" in a remote filespec.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 14:15:22 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>* Subject: Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP. Message-ID: <42BD66FA.20141.7C61994@localhost>  0 On 25 Jun 2005 at 12:56, David J Dachtera wrote: > How 'bout:F > $ copy/ftp "user:pass@host.chocolate.com/dir1/dir2/file.ext"/ASCII -
 >  []file.ext G > $ copy/ftp "user:pass@host.chocolate.com::/dir1/dir2/file.ext"/BINARY  > - 
 >  []file.ext 0 > ...which is closer what we already have today?  3 Do  a HELP COPY/FTP.  We have that today already...    > (The default could even G > be /VMS_STRUCTURE or /RMS_STRUCTURE for transfers between VMS systems B > without DECnet connectivity (drat those network guys, anyways!).  D There's also a /FDL option, although the HELP doesn't really say if   it transfers VMS file headers...         > E > With this scheme, the $PARSE service could be made sensitive to the G > presence of certain elements in the filespec or access control string H > (the colon separating user and pass without "[" which usually delimitsH > the beginning of the path specification, the "@" sign and the multipleE > periods ("dots") in the host name (precedes the double-colon) which " > could be either IP or DECnet-V). > = > > you could also support HTTP: requests for read operations  > 2 > Integrate WGET functionality into COPY? Hhmmm... > G > > what would REALLY be needed is the ability to have f$search work on A > > ftp directories just like it can work on decnet or decnet/sna  > > directories  > C > What I had in mind could be made to allow that by providing a FAL A > service for IP similar to that already provided by DECnet. Ala:  > 6 > $ SRC_FSP = "user:pass@node.domain.tld::/usr/bin/ls"* > $ IF F$SEARCH( SRC_FSP ) .NES. "" THEN - > $ SAY " Target O.K." > H > An optional qualifier could even be added to certain verbs, if needed: > G > $ COPY[/FAL] [access_control_string@]node.domain.tld::filespec target  >  > - or - > G > $ COPY[/FAL] filespec [access_control_string@]node.domain.tld::target  > 
 > - or even -  > B > $ COPY[/FAL] [access_control_string@]node.domain.tld::filespec -2 >  [access_control_string@]node.domain.tld::target > @ > ...using the existing proxy and trust relationship mechanisms. > H > The hard part would likely be teaching $PARSE to work without the "::" > in a remote filespec.  >  > --   > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  >  > Coming soon:( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page >   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:47:29 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP+ Message-ID: <42BE0931.F5A80461@comcast.net>    "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > 2 > On 25 Jun 2005 at 12:56, David J Dachtera wrote: > > How 'bout:H > > $ copy/ftp "user:pass@host.chocolate.com/dir1/dir2/file.ext"/ASCII - > >  []file.ext I > > $ copy/ftp "user:pass@host.chocolate.com::/dir1/dir2/file.ext"/BINARY  > > -  > >  []file.ext 2 > > ...which is closer what we already have today? > 5 > Do  a HELP COPY/FTP.  We have that today already...  >  > > (The default could even I > > be /VMS_STRUCTURE or /RMS_STRUCTURE for transfers between VMS systems D > > without DECnet connectivity (drat those network guys, anyways!). > E > There's also a /FDL option, although the HELP doesn't really say if " > it transfers VMS file headers...  F /FDL is typically used where the target is non-VMS. It allows the fileF and record attributes to be restored, though other header elements are regenerated at COPY time.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 22:16:00 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet># Subject: Re: Encompassus membership 0 Message-ID: <zpOdnU_nxKt9kiPfRVn-jg@comcast.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Brad Hamilton wrote: > G >>     * You already have an Encompass profile as either a member or an I >>associate. Please contact Headquarters (information@encompassUS.org) to M >>update your contact information and have your login credentials reinstated.  >  > C > Mr Cathay, who deserves a million thanks for running the hobbyist C > programme, once told me on this newsgroup that once you have your A > licences and some decus number, you are garanteed to be able to L > perpetually renew your licenses even if your chapter disapears completely.   Thanks, JF - good to know.  G Now back to our regularly scheduled thread (OpenVMS Hobby Program).	:-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:24:46 -0400 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> # Subject: Re: Encompassus membership 7 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050625202460ddd2f1@mail.gmail.com>   C On 6/25/05, Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@commcaaspt.snet> wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  > > Brad Hamilton wrote: > > I > >>     * You already have an Encompass profile as either a member or an K > >>associate. Please contact Headquarters (information@encompassUS.org) to L > >>update your contact information and have your login credentials reinsta= ted. > >  > > E > > Mr Cathay, who deserves a million thanks for running the hobbyist E > > programme, once told me on this newsgroup that once you have your C > > licences and some decus number, you are garanteed to be able to L > > perpetually renew your licenses even if your chapter disapears complete= ly.  >=20 > Thanks, JF - good to know. >=20L > Now back to our regularly scheduled thread (OpenVMS Hobby Program).     := -) >=20   Let's talk PERPETUAL:   H I can still get my hobbyist licenses with my DECUS Sustaining Member ID.   : ^ )    WWWebb   --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 21:46:14 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet>C Subject: Re: Encompassus membership (was:Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program) 0 Message-ID: <QOCdnabPreV6lSPfRVn-gA@comcast.com>   Roger Ivie wrote: H > On 2005-06-25, Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet> wrote: > I >>This will be a problem for me next year.  The license requires a valid  C >>Encompass membership, ($90.00/year) which I cannot afford, being  H >>currently unemployed.  Encompass _used_ to offer associate membership E >>for free, but does not seem to do so any longer.  can Encompass be  0 >>persuaded to offer associate membership again? >  > ( > So, what's that right at the bottom of7 > http://www.encompassus.org/secure/membership/join.cfm  > ?  >   E When I attempt to complete the registration, I receive the following   information:  5 Please be sure to complete the following information:    # Under Contact Information   F      * You already have an Encompass profile as either a member or an H associate. Please contact Headquarters (information@encompassUS.org) to K update your contact information and have your login credentials reinstated.   I Since I've already been told (in an e-mail from Encompassus) that it was  C time to renew my membership, and since the link provided me in the  I e-mail pointed me to a _different_ page, with _only_ and option renew at  I the full membership price, there is obviously a problem with the website.   G I am reluctant to pursue this issue with Encompassus, because attempts  B to pursue other membership issues in the past two years have been H ignored.  I know that there is a "new" push at Encompassus to work more F closely with HP, but I am waiting to hear reports of improved service ( from other members before going forward.  G I have found, on occasion, that posting information regarding problems  E on c.o.v. have resulted in problems being resolved.  I'm hoping that  G Encompassus has really become more responsive, and will solve problems   more readily in the future   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 22:03:03 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>C Subject: Re: Encompassus membership (was:Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program) - Message-ID: <42BE0CC6.401F1A2B@vaxination.ca>    Brad Hamilton wrote:G >      * You already have an Encompass profile as either a member or an I > associate. Please contact Headquarters (information@encompassUS.org) to M > update your contact information and have your login credentials reinstated.   A Mr Cathay, who deserves a million thanks for running the hobbyist A programme, once told me on this newsgroup that once you have your ? licences and some decus number, you are garanteed to be able to J perpetually renew your licenses even if your chapter disapears completely.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:18:02 -0600 (CST) 5 From: "A. Mahendra Rajah" <Mahendra.Rajah@URegina.CA>  Subject: HTML to text 4 Message-ID: <01LPVMAWAH668WVZRE@Eason.cc.uregina.ca>  =   Does anybody know an automated way to convert HTML to text?   @   We have several mailing lists that do not send out HTML files,?   but some of its contributors keep sending HTML files and I am @   getting tired of dealing with them. If there is an easy way to>   convert HTML to text then I could add it to the mailing list(   procedure and everyone will be served.     Any help will be appreciated.   
   -- mahendra ? ............................................................... @   A. Mahendra Rajah             Email: Mahendra.Rajah@URegina.CA    Dept. of Computing Services      University of Regina,    Regina, Sask., S4S 0A2   Canada.       ? ...............................................................    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:06:39 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> Subject: Re: HTML to text A Message-ID: <42bdc761$0$1128$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>    A. Mahendra Rajah wrote:? >   Does anybody know an automated way to convert HTML to text?  > B >   We have several mailing lists that do not send out HTML files,A >   but some of its contributors keep sending HTML files and I am B >   getting tired of dealing with them. If there is an easy way to@ >   convert HTML to text then I could add it to the mailing list* >   procedure and everyone will be served. > ! >   Any help will be appreciated.  >  >   -- mahendra A > ............................................................... B >   A. Mahendra Rajah             Email: Mahendra.Rajah@URegina.CA" >   Dept. of Computing Services    >   University of Regina,  >   Regina, Sask., S4S 0A2 >   Canada.       A > ...............................................................  >       http://www.jafsoft.com/detagger/   Cheers!    K.C.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:47:07 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> Subject: Re: HTML to text A Message-ID: <42bdd0dd$0$1141$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>    Keith Cayemberg wrote:   > A. Mahendra Rajah wrote: > @ >>   Does anybody know an automated way to convert HTML to text? >>C >>   We have several mailing lists that do not send out HTML files, B >>   but some of its contributors keep sending HTML files and I amC >>   getting tired of dealing with them. If there is an easy way to A >>   convert HTML to text then I could add it to the mailing list + >>   procedure and everyone will be served.  >>" >>   Any help will be appreciated. >> >>   -- mahendraB >> ...............................................................C >>   A. Mahendra Rajah             Email: Mahendra.Rajah@URegina.CA : >>   Dept. of Computing Services     University of Regina, >>   Regina, Sask., S4S 0A2  >>   Canada.        B >> ............................................................... >> >  > " > http://www.jafsoft.com/detagger/ > 	 > Cheers!  >  > K.C. >   5 Also lynx should provide the necessary functionality. I Although I haven't tried this, I conjecture something like the following   command should work.    & lynx -dump dua5:[my-directory]filename  K http://lynx.isc.org/release/lynx2-8-5/lynx_help/Lynx_users_guide.html#Local N http://lynx.isc.org/release/lynx2-8-5/lynx_help/Lynx_users_guide.html#Invoking     http://lynx.isc.org/release/8 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/lynx2-8-3/     Cheers!    K.C.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 13:24:02 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)4 Subject: Re: Need to export All-In-One files to a PC2 Message-ID: <05062513240192_20200298@antinode.org>  2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  ? > >    I prefer BACKUP /PHYSICAL.  No unsightly error messages.   G > Can a /PHYSICAL backup saveset be transferred to another platform and ? > written to diskette with either RaWrite(DOS/Win) or dd(UN*X)?   #    Not easily.  Were we doing that?   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jun 2005 16:07:12 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com  Subject: OpenVMS Hobby ProgramB Message-ID: <1119740832.130195.64800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Dear Newsgroup,   F Talk to me about the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program.  I really can't explain9 why I am asking, you just have to trust me in a good way.   D THE PROGRAM IS NOT AT RISK AT ALL I AM DOING PERSONAL RESEARCH - VMS( Engineering is commited to this program.  D I remember when we were at DECUS and Pat J. got up and asked the DECA listens panel about the concept, there was a huge applause and it F seemed like the right thing to do. I have to be honest and say all theC friends of the DFW LUG knew what was coming and we were holding our D breath. So the DFW LUG, Dave Cathy and John Wisniewski in particularF took on the work of doing pretty much the whole program.  And now Dave& alone.  Anyway I am making myself sad.  F I have a few questions for this newsgroup.  You can reply here or send3 me mail either to my hotmail account or my hp mail.   . Do you find the VMS Hobbyist Program valuable?  % How do you use your Hobbyist license?   D Since the license needs to be renewed each year, how do you do that? Do you get the CD's?  B Give me one improvement you would make - be realistic (every hobbyF costs something) even if you collected worms you would need a place to	 put them.     What type of machine do you use?  G The hobbyist program is currently available on VAX, Alpha and Integrity ? how do you think folks will use the hobby license on Integrity?      Thanks for your time.    Sue    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:36:31 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program- Message-ID: <42BDEA78.15ACDDB6@vaxination.ca>   " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:0 > Do you find the VMS Hobbyist Program valuable?  
 EXTREMELY.  ' > How do you use your Hobbyist license?   F When I get the email with plenty of licences, I cut and paste only theG ones I know I need. I don't register them all. I use my VAX-VMS systems H for a wide variety of applications, from turning light on/off, running aF web server, writing some software, and playing/learning VMS. This alsoE allows me to use my systems as a platform to test stuff so I have goo 0 experience before doing something at a customer.  F > Since the license needs to be renewed each year, how do you do that? > Do you get the CD's?  E No CDs, I just use the web site to request new batch of licences, get F the email, remove the old ones from the database and add the new ones.  D > Give me one improvement you would make - be realistic (every hobbyH > costs something) even if you collected worms you would need a place to > put them.   E Allow the folks who run the hobbyist programme to provide donloadable G kits from the SPL so that we can take advantage of all the licenes that E the hobbyist programme supplies. Right now, the CD offers only a very C small subset of what we are allowed to do. With proper controls, it E should not be a problem sicne the hobbyist programme already verifies J decus membersship number against its database of authorised decus members.  I > The hobbyist program is currently available on VAX, Alpha and Integrity A > how do you think folks will use the hobby license on Integrity?   E The hobbyist programme works because of a easy supply of old hardware  from the glory days of VMS.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 01:11:37 GMT % From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> " Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program3 Message-ID: <slrndbs069.sa9.rivie@Stench.no.domain>   F On 2005-06-25, Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet> wrote:I > This will be a problem for me next year.  The license requires a valid  C > Encompass membership, ($90.00/year) which I cannot afford, being  H > currently unemployed.  Encompass _used_ to offer associate membership E > for free, but does not seem to do so any longer.  can Encompass be  0 > persuaded to offer associate membership again?  & So, what's that right at the bottom of5 http://www.encompassus.org/secure/membership/join.cfm  ?    --  
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net http://anachronda.webhop.org/  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 
 Version: 3.12 H GCS/P d- s:+++ a+ C++ UB--(++++) !P L- !E W++ N++ o-- K w O- M+ V+++ PS+? PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X-- R tv++ b++ DI+++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ z+++   ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 21:27:11 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program- Message-ID: <42BDCC2F.3309.10E1631@localhost>   ; On 25 Jun 2005 at 16:07, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: 0 > Do you find the VMS Hobbyist Program valuable?  F Having a commercial interest in VMS, I don't use the Hobbyist Program F myself.  BUT, I'm glad we have one -- except for open-source, there's , no "commercial-grade" OS available this way.  E I was disappointed to find out on Friday that the CSLG program isn't  A free -- why can't HP give away licenses for free to their future   customers/users?   > Do you get the CD's?  > Actually, my first VAX installation I have in my lab used the E Hobbyist CD I bought from Dave Cathey at DECUS 1999 (Providence).  I  B didn't know anyone at the time that had a distribution newer than + V5.5-2.  That's since changed, of course...   B > how do you think folks will use the hobby license on Integrity?   F I hope some hobbyists take the Integrity opportunity to add some cool + stuff to VMS.  But I haven't a clue what...   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:32:50 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program0 Message-ID: <11bs8aijpv67fa3@corp.supernews.com>  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > Dear Newsgroup,  > H > Talk to me about the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program.  I really can't explain; > why I am asking, you just have to trust me in a good way.  > F > THE PROGRAM IS NOT AT RISK AT ALL I AM DOING PERSONAL RESEARCH - VMS* > Engineering is commited to this program. > F > I remember when we were at DECUS and Pat J. got up and asked the DECC > listens panel about the concept, there was a huge applause and it H > seemed like the right thing to do. I have to be honest and say all theE > friends of the DFW LUG knew what was coming and we were holding our F > breath. So the DFW LUG, Dave Cathy and John Wisniewski in particularH > took on the work of doing pretty much the whole program.  And now Dave( > alone.  Anyway I am making myself sad. > H > I have a few questions for this newsgroup.  You can reply here or send5 > me mail either to my hotmail account or my hp mail.  > 0 > Do you find the VMS Hobbyist Program valuable?  C Since I've used it some, yes, it is valuable.  In 1999 I told Rich  E Marcello that the value of older systems was going up because of the  H program.  This ia a method for people to explore VMS, for many reasons. H   Perhaps it's not in use where they work.  Perhaps they are new to the  OS.  Many valid reasons.  ' > How do you use your Hobbyist license?   I Truthfully, I haven't used it very much.  I have commercial licenses for  E VMS and BASIC, the language I use most often.  This is not something   available to most hobbyists.  F > Since the license needs to be renewed each year, how do you do that? > Do you get the CD's?  G I've purchased several CDs.  At one time I also had access to ConDist,  F at least for Alpha, so this wasn't a big problem for me.  Again, this & may not be typical for most hobbyists.  D > Give me one improvement you would make - be realistic (every hobbyH > costs something) even if you collected worms you would need a place to > put them.   G It seems that the one thing most people would need is access to media.  H Purchasing the ConDist takes the budget rather high, and extremely high ) in comparison to the rest of the program.   I If you cannot, for whatever reasons, provide downloadable software, then  G an extension of the inexpensive CDs with more software than the one CD  D Dave Cathy has been able to offer would be of great benefit to some.  " > What type of machine do you use?  C Oh, the list is long and glorious, but not as extensive as Brian's.   < VaxStation 4000, models 60, 90, 90A, and I covet a model 96.  MicroVAX 3100, models 10e and 20  VAXserver 3100, models 10 and 20 (And I really covet a model 98)   $ Only one of the above is powered up.  I AlphaStation 200 4/233, running 2, one strictly for backup.  Have 2 more  ! that work, and 2 that are broken.   G Ultimate Workstation, basically the AlphaServer 1200 with 2 CPUs.  Not    working, trying to get it fixed.  I > The hobbyist program is currently available on VAX, Alpha and Integrity A > how do you think folks will use the hobby license on Integrity?   H Honest answer, I'm not yet sure what's going to happen with the itanic. I   I hope it survives, for VMS hopes rest on that.  I do like some of the  % new licensing and such, pricing, etc.    > Thanks for your time.  >  > Sue  >    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jun 2005 18:18:26 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> 6 Subject: Re: Problem booting VMS CD on Alpha PWS 500auC Message-ID: <1119748706.536705.281660@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G Nothing in particular stands out as being wrong with your setup. I have F a PWS of the same vintage - i.e. the original model with the Intel SIO< chip which keeps you from using an IDE CD-ROM.  The only twoF differences I see are the firmware version and the CD-ROM.  There is aF slightly newer firmware available (V7.2-1, March 6 2000) and your SCSID CD-ROM drive is unfamilar to me.  Doing a little Googling shows thatD it's based upon a Matsushita drive.  I have not been able to find ifC that is one that is compatible with VMS's booting requirements (the ? 512-byte sector size - most CDROM drives are set to 2048-bytes) D Generally the best luck is found using DEC RRD46/47's or the ToshibaA equivalent's of the XM-5701B and XM-6201B.  Others work too.  For D example, I have in mine a Yamaha CR2100S CD-R which boots just fine.   The Alpha firmware link is:   2 http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/  C Okay. I just found something.  You have a device unknown to the SRM  console software.   4 >        Bus 01  Slot 08: Vendor: 104c  Device: 3d07  F Looking over the list I assume it's your video card.  Perhaps the bootF is hanging at the point it switches from the default VGA driver to theD VMS video driver.  What kind of card is it?  VMS is very picky aboutA supported video cards.  See the OpenVMS FAQ Section 5.16 for some  information 8 < http://h71000.www7.hp.com/faq/vmsfaq_008.html#mgmt24 >  & and search the OpenVMS Wizard for more  )  < http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/wizard/ >    Hope this gets you on track.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:15:44 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 6 Subject: Re: Problem booting VMS CD on Alpha PWS 500au0 Message-ID: <11bs7agb1urc317@corp.supernews.com>   johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: I > Nothing in particular stands out as being wrong with your setup. I have H > a PWS of the same vintage - i.e. the original model with the Intel SIO> > chip which keeps you from using an IDE CD-ROM.  The only twoH > differences I see are the firmware version and the CD-ROM.  There is aH > slightly newer firmware available (V7.2-1, March 6 2000) and your SCSIF > CD-ROM drive is unfamilar to me.  Doing a little Googling shows thatF > it's based upon a Matsushita drive.  I have not been able to find ifE > that is one that is compatible with VMS's booting requirements (the A > 512-byte sector size - most CDROM drives are set to 2048-bytes) F > Generally the best luck is found using DEC RRD46/47's or the ToshibaC > equivalent's of the XM-5701B and XM-6201B.  Others work too.  For F > example, I have in mine a Yamaha CR2100S CD-R which boots just fine. >  > The Alpha firmware link is:  > 4 > http://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/ > E > Okay. I just found something.  You have a device unknown to the SRM  > console software.  >  > 4 >>       Bus 01  Slot 08: Vendor: 104c  Device: 3d07 >  > H > Looking over the list I assume it's your video card.  Perhaps the bootH > is hanging at the point it switches from the default VGA driver to theF > VMS video driver.  What kind of card is it?  VMS is very picky aboutC > supported video cards.  See the OpenVMS FAQ Section 5.16 for some 
 > information : > < http://h71000.www7.hp.com/faq/vmsfaq_008.html#mgmt24 > > ( > and search the OpenVMS Wizard for more > + >  < http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/wizard/ >  >  > Hope this gets you on track. >   I If it is an unsupported video card, you may be able to use a terminal or  C terminal emulator attached to COM1 to boot the system.  Most ALpha  J systems will allow this.  I don't know specifically about the PWS systems.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:36:45 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net># Subject: Re: rename of system disks + Message-ID: <42BE06AD.6F0944BB@comcast.net>    Albrecht Schlosser wrote:  >  > Michael Moroney schrieb: > - > > Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > >  > >  > >>DerekB wrote:  > >>, > >>>That's it! That' what I was forgetting. > >>>  > >>>Thanks! > >>>-Derek  > >>>  > >  > > D > >>Why do I get the feeling that there will soon be questions about* > >>problems after changing the node name? > >  > > N > > Yup. Which will it be?  Can't join cluster because SCSNODE was changed butH > > SCSSYSTEMID wasn't?  Queues messed up?  Won't boot because of system. > > disk already mounted?  DECnet won't start? > @ > TCPIP won't start (you have to reconfigure nearly everything).  G With Multinet, you just rename the node-specific directory to match the ) new SCSNODE name, and "Bob's your uncle".    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:02:50 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> # Subject: Re: rename of system disks 0 Message-ID: <11bs6i9rfdhoh60@corp.supernews.com>   Brad Hamilton wrote: > Michael Moroney wrote: > , >> Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >> >> >>> DerekB wrote:  >>> , >>>> That's it! That' what I was forgetting. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> -Derek  >>>> >> >>E >>> Why do I get the feeling that there will soon be questions about  * >>> problems after changing the node name? >> >> >>J >> Yup. Which will it be?  Can't join cluster because SCSNODE was changed  >> butG >> SCSSYSTEMID wasn't?  Queues messed up?  Won't boot because of system - >> disk already mounted?  DECnet won't start?  >  > K > To be fair to the OP (and myself) - I did insert a parenthetical warning  G > about the far-reaching consequences of changing the node name.  Most  K > system managers will not do so without understanding the implications of   > such a change. > H > Section 5.7 of the OpenVMS FAQ explains the process in great detail - H > step number one (as is true for most system changes) is to BACKUP the  > system disk.  G Don't take my previous post in the wrong manner.  I've made a habit of  H doing just that when I want to set up a new system.  Make an image copy D of the system disk, usually be temporarily mounting the disk on the G source system, then moving it to the target system, boot it up, MIN if  H I'm not too lazy, change the SCSNODE and other stuff, cause a new queue I file to be opened, re-configure DECnet, TCP/IP, and probably a few other  D things.  It's been several years since I've done it, so I'd have to ) refresh my memory on all that's required.   I It sure beats the heck out of a fresh install.  I've already got all the  > custom configuration, COM files, and such that I normally use.  I The key is, you have to know all the ramifications, or at least the ones   that affect your configuration.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:15:45 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Revival of Alpha?= Message-ID: <g_ydnb1-JcQvbiDfRVn-1Q@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote:   ...   K > It was Compaq that cancelled Alpha NT, and reports at the time mentioned  . > that only 2% of all Alpha sales were for NT.  H My admittedly vague recollection is that this 2% figure was down rather H dramatically (from more like 15%) from not all that much earlier.  IIRC G Terry attributed this fall to uncertainty about Compaq's commitment to  H Alpha (whether specifically after Pfeiffer got ousted or more generally / associated with the acquisition I don't recall.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 10:44:35 +1200 $ From: "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com> Subject: Re: State of the art?4 Message-ID: <n4lve.10273$U4.1344339@news.xtra.co.nz>  ? "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca> wrote in message % news:3i2rbqFj99uvU1@individual.net...   G > Sounds like a great idea, but I don't care about HP's logos, just put  > the word "OpenVMS" on things.   & And scratch the "Open" from it please.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jun 2005 12:53:58 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report 3 Message-ID: <Bw$TPSTn2u3o@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A45CEE.4305A753@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:   I >>HP corporate sent evaluations to the attendees 123 of the 200 responded 6 >>with an official rating of 4.6 out of a possible 5.0 > " > What was the selection criteria?  ; The evaluation could only be done by people with particular : combinations of web browser brands, versions and settings.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jun 2005 13:30:43 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com + Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report C Message-ID: <1119731443.419814.137590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F the most I will do is 220 I decided that this year.  If needed then we8 will not allow any HP folks we only had about 10 anyway.   First come first served.  8 Some things are more important than having huge numbers. Sue    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jun 2005 15:31:38 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com + Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report B Message-ID: <1119738698.411638.99100@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Sorry Brian,3 I did not know you wanted to teach the intro class.  sue    VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: i > In article <1119645936.039074.215890@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com writes:  > {...snip...}@ > >On Monday morning Colin Butcher from the UK received the JohnF > >Wisniewski Spirit Award. This award is given to a member of the VMSI > >Community who most shows the same spirit as our friend John Wisniewski I > >who passed away last year.  John had passion, integrity and excitement H > >to communicate about VMS and technology and it is truly a pleasure toE > >work with people of the same caliber.  Ann McQuaid gave Colin this - > >award after her keynote on Monday morning.  > E > It's wonderful having such a fine proponent of VMS in such an elite  > group.  ;) >  > H > >Because the Boot camp is designed to be flexible we did need to run aC > >Introductory VMS class, based on audience request that Tom Moran  > >taught, this class was full.  >  > Crap!  And I missed it.  >  > J > >HP corporate sent evaluations to the attendees 123 of the 200 responded7 > >with an official rating of 4.6 out of a possible 5.0  > " > What was the selection criteria? >  > --M > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM 
 >             6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:05:52 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>+ Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report - Message-ID: <42BDE34A.78B8F323@vaxination.ca>   " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:D > It is amazing how difficult it is for some people, if we call it aD > symposium or training some people can not get travel aprovel other > names don't work.   = This was a problem even in the DECUS days in the early 1990s.   B Perhaps you could run multiple events at the same time. A TrainingH event, a symposium and a technical seminar. Attendees could then sign upG to the event that best fits their corporate budgeting policies.  And if D the sessions from all 3 separate events happen to be all in the same: rooms at the same time, it would just be a coincidence :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:40:29 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report + Message-ID: <42BE078D.2ECD33E6@comcast.net>   " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: >  > Sorry Brian,5 > I did not know you wanted to teach the intro class.   < I last did my Intro. to DCL session Fall of 1999, San Diego.  D That and the Intermediate session were combined and expanded for the4 Hands-on session at HPW04 here in Chicago last year.  G Still waiting to hear what's been accepted - if anything - for the Tech  Forum in "Nawlins".    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:42:10 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report + Message-ID: <42BE07F2.94EC30E9@comcast.net>   " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > H > the most I will do is 220 I decided that this year.  If needed then we: > will not allow any HP folks we only had about 10 anyway. >  > First come first served. > : > Some things are more important than having huge numbers.  D True. However, if you ever find yourselves turning folks away, maybe+ twice a year would be worth thinking about.    Just a suggestion...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jun 2005 19:09:10 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com + Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report C Message-ID: <1119751750.407305.295830@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D funny I asked the hotel if they had two weeks avaialble back to backC and we could run it two weeks in a row.  But I think thats a little  early.   Sue    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 22:13:29 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>+ Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report - Message-ID: <42BE0F37.158E0BD5@vaxination.ca>   " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > F > funny I asked the hotel if they had two weeks avaialble back to backE > and we could run it two weeks in a row.  But I think thats a little  > early.  G I was just going to suggest this. One setup to make, assuming the hotel A allows you to keep your stuff in the conference rooms between the B sessions. (or privides you with alternate storage location for the in-between time).   E It would also help those who may have scheduling conflicts for one or  the other times.  D However, you'd have to make sure you have enough people to make thisE financially worthwhile for the 2 weeks (essentially capacity of 400).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 22:44:40 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>+ Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report . Message-ID: <42BDDE58.31908.15506B8@localhost>  0 On 25 Jun 2005 at 20:40, David J Dachtera wrote:D > Still waiting to hear what's been accepted - if anything - for the > Tech Forum in "Nawlins".  9 I got an email asking what equipment I needed for my VAX  F Virtualization hands-on, so I guess it made it past the first hurdle. 9 Status still shows "New" on the presenter's page, though.   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jun 2005 20:19:13 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com + Subject: Re: Sue Skonetski Boot Camp Report C Message-ID: <1119755953.222856.110510@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E This is really not something I would want to do two weeks is a killer G and I am afraid that the folks that the second week folks would not get ! the same as the first week folks.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 22:47:11 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> 6 Subject: Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generator< Message-ID: <P9lve.163353$IO.129937@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>   Check out system detective.    O'Brien Paddy wrote:   >  >  >  > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Gorazd Kikelj [mailto:gorazd.kikelj@siol.net]  > Sent: Fri 6/24/2005 3:27 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 8 > Subject: Re: System Monitor Tool & Strong PW generator >  >  >"Chuck Aaron" 
 >  >Group,I >  > I need a complete OpenVMS system monitor tool, that will monitor CPU G > spikes, usage and all else that will create log files and reports for . > security audit reviews. Any recommendations? > M > T4 is a good candidate. You will find it on SYS$ETC (OVMS 7.3-2) or you can , > download it from the web. V4 is out there. >  > Best, Gorazd >  > **** > G > Surely, it should be easy to write your own specific needs in a .COM  I > using the (F$GETSYI and friends) lexicals.  There are many such in the   > free DCL world.  >  > Regards, Paddy >  >  > I > ***********************************************************************  > E > "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged ? > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B > addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient ofE > this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B > the sender. You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,9 > distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.  > B > If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGridA > immediately. Any views expressed in this email are those of the > > individual sender except where the sender expressly and withD > authority states them to be the views of TransGrid. TransGrid uses@ > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses > contained in any attachment. > > > Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now& > firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au" > I > ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jun 2005 18:13:22 -0700$ From: "Rick" <artofficial@grics.net>+ Subject: This is working for me$$$$$$$$$$$$ C Message-ID: <1119748402.355868.102390@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   ; You get $ 8,100 - Guaranteed - Or we Continue to Advertise! A We Keep Advertising for you until you have $8,100 in your PayPal, G E-gold Or StormPay account or we Continue to Advertise. No need to wait & for you payments get them instantly !!8 http://www.dollarsblaster.com/userindex.asp?userid=26643   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2005 05:32:06 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-WBFZt5lcNBJR@dave2_os2.home.ours>   " On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:26:59 UTC, < koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  a > In article <d9hklm$gh$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>, m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) writes:  > > 3 > > In which way do I "steal" IP from HP this way ? < > > I buy used equipment from somebody how as bought it fromC > > somebody else who has paid money to HP for the fresh equipment. 2 > > If I buy a used car, do I "steal" it from GM ? > H >    The same way you steal from Stevie Wonder when you give away copiesG >    of his music.  HP gets money for copies of the software and you're ( >    allowing people to get it for free. > E >    So HP has to pay people for making the software, but doesn't get % >    income to cover those paychecks.   F While I don't disagree with the dissent about having this _VAX_ stuff D being put up as warez , particularly how it could be used to damage F the hobbyist program, My own first thought was 'that's not wise'. OTOHF I seriously question the size of the market for the products being putF up and thus the putative loss of income for HP. The word nil comes to  mind.    --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:15:38 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> ) Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Consulting in Europe < Message-ID: <Ksmve.117664$VH2.93318@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>   John Reagan wrote:   > Bob Koehler wrote: > J >> In article <opsss2z5wuzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 
 >> writes: >>0 >>> On 22 Jun 2005 13:20:44 -0500, Bob Koehler  4 >>> <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: >>>  >>> A >>>>  Probably model dependent.  On the 11/780 the floating point F >>>>   accelerator (a slightly different concept than an FP processor)J >>>>   was used for all arithmetic calcuations, including addressing, thatK >>>>   it could possibly* be used for, except the INDEX instruction.  Which A >>>>   is why the compiler writers never used the powerfull INDEX  >>>>   instruction.  >>>  >>>  >>> PL/I uses it.  >> >> >>G >>   Interesting.  I don't recall a PL/I compiler in the days when the  	 >> VAX-11 C >>   series was the VAX model line.  Certainly by MicroVAX days the * >>   compilers were tuned to later models. >>E >>   I still recall that a DO loop copying individual characters of a @ >>   CHARACTER string was faster than an assignment on our MV IIF >>   because the latter generated a MOVC3 which was in the emulated   F >> instruction subset, the compiler being tuned to processors which   ! >> implemented MOVCx in hardware.  >>     >  > L > I don't think MOVCs were ever emulated.  CMPCs, MOVTUC, MATCHC, etc. were. > K > As for the INDEX instrunction, the VAX Pascal compiler uses it a TON.  I  H > never heard a recommendation to avoid the INDEX instruction even on a M > 780.  There were others we did avoid however (SOBxxx, AOBxxx come to mind).      Monitor was written in PL1 >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.354 ************************