1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 29 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 361       Contents:8 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20058 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005! Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP + Decnet/OSI V6.3 problem  (charon-vax) -demo / Re: Decnet/OSI V6.3 problem  (charon-vax) -demo . Re: Decnet/OSI V6.3 problem (charon-vax) -demo. Re: Decnet/OSI V6.3 problem (charon-vax) -demo5 Re: European VMS Consultants required... for HPS EMEA 5 Re: European VMS Consultants required... for HPS EMEA 5 Re: European VMS Consultants required... for HPS EMEA 5 Re: European VMS Consultants required... for HPS EMEA $ Re: free nntp server with this group$ Re: free nntp server with this group. Re:  FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS - Nomen Nescio. Re:  FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS - Nomen Nescio3 Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program # Re: Point of clarification on ISV's # Re: Point of clarification on ISV's # Re: Point of clarification on ISV's # Re: Point of clarification on ISV's  Re: printf conversions RE: Speaking of promoting VMS 8 Re: Support *for* Oracle Rdb on CHARON-VAX Emulators ???8 Re: Support *for* Oracle Rdb on CHARON-VAX Emulators ???# Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality  Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download  [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:25:20 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 2 Message-ID: <42c23ecf$0$694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   David J Dachtera wrote:   C  > V8.0 of LD is provided on the freeware site as a .PCSI file (not J > .PCSI$COMPRESSED !!! GRRR!!!!). Download it as BINARY, and then do this: > 4 > $ SET FILE/ATTR=(LRL=8192) HP-VMS-LD-V0800--1.PCSI > E > V8.0 has a /LBN qualifier for the CONNECT command that lets you map I > block ranges on a physical volume to a LD device. Great for breaking up I > those huge SAN array LUNs into more easily usuable chunks. Probably has 0 > other uses, but I've only begun to explore it.  Q Why don't you all join the DSPP program? It is free and you get now VMS for free   too.   D.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:39:39 +0000 (UTC) 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 ? Message-ID: <d9tfna$95u$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>   
 Hi Didier,  I > Why don't you all join the DSPP program? It is free and you get now VMS  for free > too.  > I hope that's still IA64 only. Otherwise I want my money back!   Cheers Richard Maher  K PS. I don't think it's free in other parts of the world, so let's not go on 
 about it hey?   : "Didier Morandi" <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> wrote in message, news:42c23ecf$0$694$626a14ce@news.free.fr... > David J Dachtera wrote:  > E >  > V8.0 of LD is provided on the freeware site as a .PCSI file (not L > > .PCSI$COMPRESSED !!! GRRR!!!!). Download it as BINARY, and then do this: > > 6 > > $ SET FILE/ATTR=(LRL=8192) HP-VMS-LD-V0800--1.PCSI > > G > > V8.0 has a /LBN qualifier for the CONNECT command that lets you map K > > block ranges on a physical volume to a LD device. Great for breaking up K > > those huge SAN array LUNs into more easily usuable chunks. Probably has 2 > > other uses, but I've only begun to explore it. > I > Why don't you all join the DSPP program? It is free and you get now VMS  for free > too. >  > D. >    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 07:31:21 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP3 Message-ID: <8dzTin7BeqcO@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <42C1F81E.A6078D0A@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > 5 > You won't. FAL doesn't do that, unless you wnat to.   F    FAL provides it.  Whether you use it is up to you, but it is there.   > J > No, I wanted FAL functionality by whatever magic in so far as IP and TCP" > and can be made to support that.  D    Then its not clear to me what you're sking for that's not already	    there.    > F > Y'know, one thing I've never done is explore the DECnet-IV doc.'s in5 > detail to see if FAL is actually fully documented.    E    DECnet Phase IV is a fully documented publically available spec to F    which anyone can write and several have, including DEC, KiResearch,"    CDC, Sun, and some Linux folks.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 03:44:37 -0700 From: mb301@hotmail.com 4 Subject: Decnet/OSI V6.3 problem  (charon-vax) -demoB Message-ID: <1120041877.351937.86570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  	 If I do:-   	 $ set h 0 = %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node   F I know that decnet is ok, because I can set host onto other systems we- have. What object number is it trying to use?    Mb   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:56:05 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>8 Subject: Re: Decnet/OSI V6.3 problem  (charon-vax) -demo2 Message-ID: <d9tuo5$fm2$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>  a <mb301@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1120041877.351937.86570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...    > $ set h 0 ? > %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node  > H > I know that decnet is ok, because I can set host onto other systems we/ > have. What object number is it trying to use?    42   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 04:20:44 -0700 From: mb301@hotmail.com 7 Subject: Re: Decnet/OSI V6.3 problem (charon-vax) -demo B Message-ID: <1120044044.812406.84530@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   OK,   & I know its missing how do I create it?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:37:51 -0600 4 From: Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>7 Subject: Re: Decnet/OSI V6.3 problem (charon-vax) -demo * Message-ID: <42C2961F.85EB86B2@oracle.com>   @sys$startup:netconfig.com     mb301@hotmail.com wrote: >  > OK,  > ( > I know its missing how do I create it?   --  	 - - - - - 0  opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone.  and certainly are not intended in any way to 0  express or represent any opinions or commitment  of oracle corporation.   *  norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:18:51 GMT % From: "Safir" <axica_nopub@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: European VMS Consultants required... for HPS EMEA2 Message-ID: <fAuwe.7789$R45.5178@news.cpqcorp.net>   > - > o HP France has less and less VMS resources    True   (actually, two people only, D > since the departure of Marc Dufresne), doing mainly advisory. So, G > Customers go to HP EMEA for advices and find Christophe and his team.  >   	 Not true. @ Apart from the Ambassadors dealing mainly with presales support,G there is at least 5-10 persons in HPS TC France (Technical consultants) > who can provide this type of service (migration to Integrity).  J The 2 people you are refering too are probably part of the French CustomerI Support Center (they are in fact 3 but one of them is on a long training) " which can also help on migrations.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:39:02 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> > Subject: Re: European VMS Consultants required... for HPS EMEA4 Message-ID: <42c28963$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   Safir wrote:. >> o HP France has less and less VMS resources >  > True >  > (actually, two people only, D >> since the departure of Marc Dufresne), doing mainly advisory. So,H >> Customers go to HP EMEA for advices and find Christophe and his team. >> >  > Not true. B > Apart from the Ambassadors dealing mainly with presales support,< > there is at least 5-10 persons in HPS TC France (TechnicalA > consultants) who can provide this type of service (migration to 
 > Integrity).  > C > The 2 people you are refering too are probably part of the French E > Customer Support Center (they are in fact 3 but one of them is on a 3 > long training) which can also help on migrations.     G Ok then - there are between 8-13 people in all of HP France (population ? about 65 million) who are qualified to deal with VMS migration.   J That could also speak to one of three things - the paucity of the customerH base for VMS in France overall, and/or the lack of interest in moving toA Itanic from VAX or Alpha, and/or HP's commitment to VMS generally F (notwithstanding the relatively few VMS-commited individuals scattered across the globe within HP).     --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:11:05 GMT % From: "Safir" <axica_nopub@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: European VMS Consultants required... for HPS EMEA2 Message-ID: <tdwwe.7795$595.5207@news.cpqcorp.net>  I > Ok then - there are between 8-13 people in all of HP France (population A > about 65 million) who are qualified to deal with VMS migration.  > 6 I said i know at least 8-13 people. There may be more.  L > That could also speak to one of three things - the paucity of the customerJ > base for VMS in France overall, and/or the lack of interest in moving toC > Itanic from VAX or Alpha, and/or HP's commitment to VMS generally H > (notwithstanding the relatively few VMS-commited individuals scattered > across the globe within HP).  7 -  You cannot compare the installed base in France with A the US of course. The relative paucity of the customer base began  with Palmer's time ...  = - That said, you cannot compare the services market of France ? with many other countries. France has a big number of important = consulting/software companies (Cap Gemini, ATOS, etc ...) and D a number of smaller partners and Digital/Compaq/HP has always worked& with them for developpement projects.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:22:08 +0200 " From: Didier MORANDI <no@spam.com>> Subject: Re: European VMS Consultants required... for HPS EMEA% Message-ID: <42C2D8C0.90707@spam.com>    Safir a crit:- >>o HP France has less and less VMS resources  >  >  > True >  > (actually, two people only,  > D >>since the departure of Marc Dufresne), doing mainly advisory. So, G >>Customers go to HP EMEA for advices and find Christophe and his team.  >> >  >  > Not true. B > Apart from the Ambassadors dealing mainly with presales support,I > there is at least 5-10 persons in HPS TC France (Technical consultants) @ > who can provide this type of service (migration to Integrity). > L > The 2 people you are refering too are probably part of the French CustomerK > Support Center (they are in fact 3 but one of them is on a long training) $ > which can also help on migrations.   Correct. Please accept my apologies.   Thank you for the clarification.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:48:36 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - Subject: Re: free nntp server with this group 0 Message-ID: <11c4gtj758l2395@corp.supernews.com>  
 LJB wrote:D > Does anyone know of a free nntp server that carries this group andH > allows posting? I've been using Google and IE but quoting doesn't work? > with them. I'd like to find a server and use Outlook Express.  >  > thanks > LJB  >   ) Might I suggest Thunderbird from Mozilla?   K Every ISP I've been with has had a news server.  Sometimes not too current.    Currently with LocalNet.   WWW.Localnet.Com   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:57:02 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> - Subject: Re: free nntp server with this group + Message-ID: <3ifrtjFl4jb2U1@individual.net>   ! On 2005-06-28 19:47, "LJB" wrote:   D > Does anyone know of a free nntp server that carries this group andH > allows posting? I've been using Google and IE but quoting doesn't work? > with them. I'd like to find a server and use Outlook Express.   F sunsite.dk got mentioned a few times in a local news group; apparently> an account (free of charge) is required. I don't have personalC experience with that server and don't know what groups are carried.    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:54:32 GMT S From: "Gregory Morrow" <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@earthlink.net> 7 Subject: Re:  FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS - Nomen Nescio C Message-ID: <cltwe.14706$eM6.7175@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>   
 funk49 wrote:    > Got no life. >  > Got no reason to live. >  > Cross / top polling TROLL     - Yet you reposted the WHOLE troll in response.   ! You are only "feeding" the troll!    --   Best Greg   > L !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > L !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > L !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  > I > Nomen Nescio - would you just FOAD or would you like me to spell it out  for J > you ? You got a problem with JF Menzi -- tell someone who gives a damn !4 > "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message4 > news:81a0743eefc91dccd41e1371e7d3e20f@dizum.com... > > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS > >    About > > JF MEZEI > > D > > The "nobody" troll of rec.travel.air and "John Doe" troll of the > > sci.space.* newsgroups.  > >  > > (Rev. June 25, 2005) > >  > > Written by:  > >  > > Darrell Larose > > 121 Northwestern Ave > > Ottawa, ON K1Y 0M1 > > (613) 725-0245' > > c o t a 3 4 8 @ r o g e r s . c o m 5 > > a d 6 0 7 @ F r e e N e t . C a r l e t o n . C A  > >  > > 1.  Who is JF Mezei? > > G > > Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever G > > hit rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also 8 > > one of the longest running trolls in usenet history. > > G > > ***WARNING:  JF MEZEI IS A ROGUE CANCELLER.  HE FORGES THE NAME AND G > > E-MAIL ADDRESS OF USENET POSTERS HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH AND CANCELS  > > THEIR MESSAGES.*** > > I > > If you participate in the same newsgroups he does, you should monitor I > > the control.cancel newsgroup.  If you find that he has cancelled your * > > messages, forward a copies of them to:' > > a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m ' > > a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m ' > > a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m  > > ' > > See also http://www.usenetabuse.com  > > & > > 2.  How long has he been trolling? > >  > > For well over a decade.  > >  > > 3.  Where does he live?  > >  > > Montreal, Quebec, Canada > >  > > Jean-Francois Mezei  > > 86 Harwood Gate  > > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  > > (514) 992-0474 > > (514) 695-8259 > > % > > His current e-mail addresses are: + > > j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m - > > j f m e z e i @ v a x i n a t i o n . c a  > > - > > His website is http://www.vaxination.ca .  > > . > > 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll? > > G > > His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades H > > your newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, dayJ > > in and day out, every day of the year, for years and years on end.  HeD > > does not listen to pleas to stop, he does not listen to anything8 > > anyone tells him, he does not pay attention when theE > > misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just goes G > > right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his J > > ears closed while yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear anything you	 > > say!"  > > ! > > 5.  What does he troll about?  > > J > > His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  HeF > > hates the USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn itG > > into a USA-bashing fest.  If he can't do that then he'll just start  > > making lewd posts. > > ( > > 6.  What does he hate about the USA? > > I > > Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have I > > a visceral hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a F > > happier, better, more successful version of their country and theyB > > can't stand it.  Some of JF's favorite troll bait is "the BushI > > Regime", "the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz axis of evil", "Americans are F > > brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all Americans are > > stupid" etc. > > ' > > 7.  What about his sexual trolling?  > > I > > Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre. B > > Among his favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women'sE > > genitalia, sex toys, circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of $ > > course) ... the list is endless. > >  > > 8.  Circumcision???  > > J > > Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes@ > > to insert circumcision into his trolling every now and then.G > > Apparently, JF was traumatized as a child because his parents, poor F > > Hungarian immigrants to Canada, left him uncircumcised when he wasF > > born, as is the custom in most of the world.  Growing up in CanadaD > > where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, he wasC > > psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he D > > arranged to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades ofI > > circumcision proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a D > > free willy.  His main argument is how much better he was able toF > > masturbate after getting circumcised without that "pesky foreskin"J > > getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has made it his mission in+ > > life to spread the circumcision gospel.  > > D > > 9.  What's his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of > > freaky.  > > D > > Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among theI > > subjects dear to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, I > > especially little boy's foreskins (and how tight they are) and little D > > girls' hymens.  He is also a tireless activist and advocate thatG > > children should be taught to masturbate early on so that they don't 0 > > grow up "sexually repressed like Americans". > > I > > He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their G > > little boys' penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, J > > proper movement, and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.E > > Utopia for JF would be a world full of parents manipulating their  > > little boys' penises.  > > D > > 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the/ > > minute!  Are you sure about all this stuff?  > > H > > Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There's over a+ > > decade full of Mezei trolling in there.  > > G > > 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn't he change aliases all the  > > time like all trolls do? > > F > > Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known > > trolling aliases.  > > E > > 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn't he 	 > > work?  > > I > > Ha ha ha!  JF hasn't worked a day in his life!  He's an adult baby, a G > > grown man who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and D > > trolls the newsgroups all night.  In his free time when he isn'tJ > > trolling he likes to ride his bike down to Dorval Airport and race the' > > planes down the runway in his bike.  > > = > > 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something?  > > H > > Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man's body.  Psychologically he neverE > > got past the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor J > > (i.e. "pull my finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been > > able to outgrow. > > G > > 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about  > > them, is that true?  > > D > > Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in theF > > locker room.  He loves to post about the male sexual organs he hasA > > seen in locker rooms over the years, especially his unnatural J > > obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the men in locker rooms trying toF > > measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is left if theyJ > > have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a case > > of phimosis. > > D > > 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an > > insane asylum! > > H > > Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin? > > foil hat world where others are out to get him.  The key to J > > understanding JF is that he sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the worldH > > is out to get him, especially the USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all
 > > about. > > H > > What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian railH > > system was "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut,H > > spotting trains, writing down their numbers and chasing them down atF > > the train yard like a good freak.  Then he turned his attention toG > > aviation.  Major events that made him fall head first deep into the G > > abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines and their subsequent J > > takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is he thatI > > when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees H > > went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to coverI > > up the Air Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of ? > > the crash investigation.  He has never recovered from this.  > > : > > 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him! > > J > > His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to someI > > ancient, arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken E > > seriously for decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and G > > social dropouts who share his psychological traumas, crying for the 5 > > good old vax days of yore.  It's really pathetic!  > > % > > 17.  Where else does he hang out?  > > D > > can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geekyH > > computer groups.  For a while after the Shuttle Columbia disaster heF > > invaded the sci.space groups, sci.space.shuttle in particular, andJ > > trolled it relentlessly with the anti-American, conspiracy theory crapI > > he's so famous for.  But they ran him off that group and he had to go H > > crawling back to comp.os.vms with his tail between his legs, licking > > his wounds.  > > E > > 18.  It sounds like comp.os.vms is the only group he respects and  > > doesn't troll. > > J > > Pretty much.  For a megatroll like JF it's impossible not to troll, soB > > he slips in troll bait every now and then, but by and large heE > > respects comp.os.vms, and, more importantly, he tries to hide his E > > trolling activities from them so they won't find out what a major  > > netkook he is. > > J > > 19.  Wow, sounds like he should be exposed so they will know what kind > > of psycho he is! > > I > > Exactly.  Feel free to post all his trolls to comp.os.vms.  And while J > > you're at it post them to can.internet.highspeed and alt.cellular.fidoC > > too.  And to alt.usenet.kooks, a group for the likes of JF, and   > > news.admin.net-abuse.usenet. > > 8 > > 20.  What else can I do?  Is there an abuse address? > > H > > Yes, you should send complaints along with copies of his troll posts > > to:  > > ' > > a b u s e @ t e k s a v v y . c o m - > > d n s a d m i n @ t e k s a v v y . c o m ' > > a b u s e @ t e r a n e w s . c o m ' > > a b u s e @ a s t r a w e b . c o m  > > # > > also http://www.usenetabuse.com  > > ; > > You can also call directly, troll free, 1-877-779-1575.  > >  > > TekSavvy Solutions Inc.  > > 330 Richmond St., Suite 205  > > Chatham, ON, Canada  > > N7M 1P7  > > H > > And feel free to distribute this FAQ freely.  Post it to newsgroups,G > > email it to people, you may host it at your own website, send it to H > > newspapers and magazines that do Internet articles or anything to do! > > with Montreal or Canada, etc.  > >  > >  > > *** APPENDIX *** > > D > > List of some of the many trolling aliases used by Mezei over theJ > > years.  This is only a partial list, he has so many it's impossible to > > compile a full list. > > + > > j f m e z e i @ t e k s a v v y . c o m ; > > j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ t e k s a v v y . c o m % > > j f m e z e i @ i s t o p . c o m 5 > > j f m e z e i . s p a m n o t @ i s t o p . c o m + > > j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a 1 > > j f m e z e i @ v l . v i d e o t r o n . c a 9 > > n o s p a m . j f m e z e i @ v i d e o t r o n . c a ? > > " j f m e z e i " @ v i d e o t r o n . c a [ n o s p a m ]  > > . > > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . c o m>. > > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . n e t>. > > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . o r g>0 > > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n f o>. > > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o b o d y . i n t>0 > > nobody <n o b o d y @ n o t h i n g . n i l>* > > nobody <n o b o d y @ n u l l . d e v> > > ' > > Janice Staples <jstaples@noaol.com> - > > Lorenna Bobbit <lbobbit@ginsu_knives.com> + > > Lando Calrisian <Lcalrisian@empire.org>  > > muklak <muklak@eskimo.net>! > > Sheep skin <sheep@station.au> ' > > snowy squirrel <squirrel@nest.tree> - > > Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org> * > > Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( > > Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>) > > Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>   > > Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>) > > Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> & > > Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>( > > Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>1 > > Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> + > > Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> & > > Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> > > Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> + > > Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> , > > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>* > > Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org># > > Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> + > > Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> ) > > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org> ! > > Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> % > > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> ' > > Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org> $ > > Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>( > > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>* > > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>( > > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>. > > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>" > > Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>% > > Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org> # > > Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> ( > > Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>% > > Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> % > > Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org> $ > > Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>( > > Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>" > > Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>) > > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> ) > > Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> ( > > Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org>! > > Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> * > > Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>, > > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>) > > Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> ) > > Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> * > > Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>. > > Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>* > > Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>+ > > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> + > > Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> , > > Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>0 > > Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>2 > > Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> > > Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> + > > Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> ) > > Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> ( > > Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>& > > Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>* > > Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>' > > Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> , > > Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>) > > Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> & > > Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>) > > Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> * > > Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>+ > > Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> - > > Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> + > > Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> & > > Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>, > > Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>0 > > George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>/ > > Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> . > > Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, > > Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>+ > > Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> . > > Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org># > > T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  > > Q <queue@continuum.net>  > > Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>. > > Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>- > > John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>  > > ? > > *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY* *DISTRIBUTE FREELY*  >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:04:35 +0000 (UTC) 0 From: helbig@multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig)7 Subject: Re:  FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS - Nomen Nescio 0 Message-ID: <d9trnj$79t$2@fiasco.xenopsyche.net>  L In article <cltwe.14706$eM6.7175@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "GregoryL Morrow" <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@earthlink.net> writes:  . >Yet you reposted the WHOLE troll in response. > " >You are only "feeding" the troll!   As did you.   - [Huge amount of repeated-troll text snipped.]    Think before you post!   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 07:32:45 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) < Subject: Re: Intel neuters Montvale, Itanic screams in alarm3 Message-ID: <kjsqH7Luks$J@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <42c2007c$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > bob@instantwhip.com wrote:7 >> so if ia64 is done for, what is vms going to run on?  >  > Choose one of the following:
 > a) Power  A    I'd love to have a VMS that ran on one of our PPC single board &    computers.  I won't hold my breath.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 03:01:15 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising/ Message-ID: <11c4hlb3bfe71c@corp.supernews.com>    Martin Hunt wrote:  G > I have previously been able to synchronise to clocks on the internet, / > but new security policies do not permit this.   F If the decision makers don't want to use someone else's atomic clock, % get them a quote on buying their own.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:20:55 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet>" Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising0 Message-ID: <l6qdnaDUoZKKGV_fRVn-jw@comcast.com>   Martin Hunt wrote:* > Running TCP/IP V5.4 ECO 1 on VMS V7.3-2. <snip>H > Anyway, what I am trying to do is synchronise with a stratum 3 server.C > Although I see the server, and its offset details, this server is G > never chosen as a server to synchronise with. The following is output  > from the "ntpq peer" command:  > H >      remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset > jitterP > ==============================================================================H >  202.36.54.19    202.36.52.9      3 u   51   64  377    7.813  180758. > 7.813 H > *LOCAL(0)        LOCAL(0)         8 l   58   64  377    0.000    0.000 > 7.813  > G > Note that we are synchronising with ourselves as a fallback position, < > but would prefer to synchronise with the stratum 3 server. >   H Although I've never used a local fallback, what would happen if you got G rid of the local fallback (I'm wondering if you can't sync because the  E NTP daemon "settles" on the local fallback, and "refuses" to use the   stratum-3 server)?   <snip>   --  . Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own"@                       "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' with @"   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:35:01 GMT ( From: Joe Matuscak <matuscak@rohrer.com>" Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising? Message-ID: <MPG.1d2c7b9e3a205e2b989684@news-server.neo.rr.com>   9 In article <fl44c1tke5fejh7nv9484431c1m4rpommo@4ax.com>,  * martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz says...  H > Anyway, what I am trying to do is synchronise with a stratum 3 server.C > Although I see the server, and its offset details, this server is G > never chosen as a server to synchronise with. The following is output  > from the "ntpq peer" command:  > H >      remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset > jitterP > ==============================================================================H >  202.36.54.19    202.36.52.9      3 u   51   64  377    7.813  180758. > 7.813 H > *LOCAL(0)        LOCAL(0)         8 l   58   64  377    0.000    0.000 > 7.813  > G > Note that we are synchronising with ourselves as a fallback position, < > but would prefer to synchronise with the stratum 3 server. > ! > The following is from ntptrace:  > E > 202.36.54.19: stratum 3, offset 181.292783, synch distance 10.24707 D > 202.36.52.9: stratum 2, offset 181.312063, synch distance 10.17047 > 172.24.156.68:  *Timeout*  > G > I have previously been able to synchronise to clocks on the internet, / > but new security policies do not permit this.   E Does the VMS NTP port have the ntpdate command?  Can it get the time?   > Does the "ntp.conf" equivalent have something that looks like:   restrict default nomodify   F You can have the restrict switches to the point where the daemon wont C synch with anything other than localhost. Take a close look at the  2 configuration file, it can be kind of convoluted.   E > Also, has anyone had any experience with stratum 1 servers, such as F > ones which synchronise from GPS? I am tempted to look at that option > as an alternative.  & I recently installed a End Run Unison:  5 http://www.endruntechnologies.com/gps-time-server.htm   H Very cool, easy to set up, not very expensive (about US $2500 IIRC) and F *way* accurate. They even have ones that synch off of CDMA cell phone ; signals so you dont need to get a GPS antenna on the roof.       --   Joe Matuscak Rohrer Corporation 717 Seville Road Wadsworth, OH 44281    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:26:42 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> " Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising( Message-ID: <6Zzwe.639$302.470@fe04.lga>   Dave Froble wrote:H >> I have previously been able to synchronise to clocks on the internet,0 >> but new security policies do not permit this.  H > If the decision makers don't want to use someone else's atomic clock, ' > get them a quote on buying their own.   = Cute, but you don't need an atomic clock, just an NTP server.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:14:01 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program0 Message-ID: <11c4esokf313qf8@corp.supernews.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >>David J Dachtera wrote:  >>G >>>An FTP site where your user name is your "DECUS" id as registered on K >>>your PAKs and your password would be the checksum from your OpenVMS base I >>>license (sans "-"'s), VAX, Alpha or I64. The account creation could be 6 >>>automated, driven by the code that issues the PAKs. >> >>I support this 99.7362%  >>D >>There is the issue of which checksum/password to use when you have >>multiple licensed systems. >  > H > I was thinking about that after I posted. I should think the first PAKF > issued each year would be the one activated. That would require someG > planning and careful execution, but it should be entirely doable. DCL 6 > works well with RMS indexed files, to a fair extent. >  > I >>If the Montagar folks's database allow, perhaps it would email the user E >>which system-id to use as password (instead of checksum). With a "I F >>forgot my password" web page which will email the original owner the >>login information. >  > 1 > Naturally, some such provision would be needed.  > B > Alternately, if this were done through Encompass, one's existingC > credentials might be enough. I'm just not sure that would provide J > "global" coverage, the former DECUS being what it has become, or that itD > could provide the tracking and accounting that HP would be sure to
 > require. >   I Why can't the system scan all licenses issued to the ID #, and if any of  $ them match, it's Ok to provide data?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:23:05 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> , Subject: Re: Point of clarification on ISV's2 Message-ID: <42c23e49$0$694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   David J Dachtera wrote:   H > I'm still getting SPAM from when I used my real e-mail address in this > group.  N This is why I gave up with my address @free.fr that I nearly had since I left E DEC. Today either I use no@spam.com or firstname.lastname@freesurf.fr    D.  5 ps: If you use outlook, SpamBayes is your best friend - http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/windows.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:28:54 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> , Subject: Re: Point of clarification on ISV's0 Message-ID: <11c4fopkfp6gv2c@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote: $ > susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: >  >>ThisI >>goes for everyone.  You can use your super hero powers for good or bad. 3 >> You can build up VMS or you can bring it down.    >  >  > G > Sue, "John Smith" has been using that derogative SIG (about diwndling H > ISV due to lack of marketing) for a long time.  Sorry to be blunt, butP > it is about time that an HP representative finally takes issue with this .SIG. > E > I am very happy that you (finally) got up and commented on this and 0 > provided whatever numbers to prove him wrong.  > G > Having said this, while you may have some numbers to prove him wrong, G > the perception is still the same. Until you can get SAP and other big H > guys on board VMS, until you can get the full Oracle application suiteH > (not just database engine) etc etc, the perception will remain. And inJ > order to get those big guys on board, you need to advertise VMS and showG > to both potential customers and the large ISVs that there is a future A > and growth in the VMS marketplace to make it worth their while.  > G > You can attract a small ISV who can survive with one or two customers G > per year. But for a shop like Oracle, they need to have a much larger P > number of customers on VSM to justified full development of their whole suite.  ' That perception isn't necessarily true.   G It wouldn't hurt to have some of the things you mention.  But they are  0 not the key reasons to advertise, in my opinion.  E Advertising would let many people know that VMS is still around, and  D still better than many other products.  Once they know it's still a G 'player', then they may look in more detail.  The key is, people can't  - look at something that they don't know about.   H  From my perspective, I have much less use for Oracle and SAP than some G others apparently do.  I think one of the main strengths of VMS is the  I robust development environment.  Yes, there are still people (companies)  F developing their own applications.  Not everything is AP, AR, GL, etc.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:25:01 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> , Subject: Re: Point of clarification on ISV's+ Message-ID: <3if8j4FkscrqU1@individual.net>   , On 2005-06-29 08:23, "Didier Morandi" wrote:   > David J Dachtera wrote:  > I >> I'm still getting SPAM from when I used my real e-mail address in this 	 >> group.  > P > This is why I gave up with my address @free.fr that I nearly had since I left G > DEC. Today either I use no@spam.com or firstname.lastname@freesurf.fr  >  > [...]   > You might consider using SpamGourmet and DeSpammed as well ...  F (I'm using SpamGourmet as a "spam sink" only; no mail gets forwarded.)   Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:18:49 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: Re: Point of clarification on ISV's4 Message-ID: <42c284a7$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   Dave Froble wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: % >> susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:  >> >>> ThisF >>> goes for everyone.  You can use your super hero powers for good or7 >>> bad. You can build up VMS or you can bring it down.  >> >> >>H >> Sue, "John Smith" has been using that derogative SIG (about diwndlingE >> ISV due to lack of marketing) for a long time.  Sorry to be blunt,  >> butF >> it is about time that an HP representative finally takes issue with
 >> this .SIG.  >>F >> I am very happy that you (finally) got up and commented on this and0 >> provided whatever numbers to prove him wrong. >>H >> Having said this, while you may have some numbers to prove him wrong,H >> the perception is still the same. Until you can get SAP and other bigC >> guys on board VMS, until you can get the full Oracle application @ >> suite (not just database engine) etc etc, the perception will >> remain. And in F >> order to get those big guys on board, you need to advertise VMS and >> show H >> to both potential customers and the large ISVs that there is a futureB >> and growth in the VMS marketplace to make it worth their while. >>H >> You can attract a small ISV who can survive with one or two customersH >> per year. But for a shop like Oracle, they need to have a much largerD >> number of customers on VSM to justified full development of their >> whole suite.  > ) > That perception isn't necessarily true.  > H > It wouldn't hurt to have some of the things you mention.  But they are2 > not the key reasons to advertise, in my opinion. > F > Advertising would let many people know that VMS is still around, andE > still better than many other products.  Once they know it's still a H > 'player', then they may look in more detail.  The key is, people can't/ > look at something that they don't know about.  > D >  From my perspective, I have much less use for Oracle and SAP thanF > some others apparently do.  I think one of the main strengths of VMSE > is the robust development environment.  Yes, there are still people G > (companies) developing their own applications.  Not everything is AP,  > AR, GL, etc.    H Corporations don't wonder if Windows (in some form) will be around in 15J years, nor do they wonder if Unix (in some fungible form) or Linux will beG either. So switching from VMS to one of the aforemention os products is L generally not a difficult decision, especially when the plethora of end-userL applications available on those platforms is virtually unlimited, never mindL the *wide* range of infrastructure plumbing and development tools - all fromH companies that advertise their availability on Windows, Unix, and Linux.  I Now for the instant MBA, in 100 words or less contrast the foregoing with J the equivalent set of circumstances in trying to convince a corporation toH migrate from Window, Unix, or Linux to VMS. To graduate Magna Cum Laude,H also consider the challenges in keeping the remaining VMS customers withI their 411,000 systems from bolting to Windows, Unix, or Linux. Note: your F responses will *never* be used by HP in halting the decline or overall= negative commercial use perception of VMS in the marketplace.    --F OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:00:38 -0400 + From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam>  Subject: Re: printf conversions A Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0506290800190.26520@frank.harvard.edu>   $ On Tue, 28 Jun 2005, JF Mezei wrote:   > Chip Coldwell wrote:" >>      printf("%4s\n", "foobar");% >>      printf("%*s\n", 4, "foobar");  > = > It is "%.*s" which will print exactly that many characters.   0 Ooops.  Much better.  Thanks to all who replied.   Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell Turn on, log in, tune out    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:25:08 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> & Subject: RE: Speaking of promoting VMSR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650F03@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  > Sent: June 28, 2005 9:35 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ > Subject: Speaking of promoting VMS >=20 >=20C > Sybase sent a broadcast e-mail today, promoting the use of Linux.  >=20 >=20@ > HP does nothing other than produce VMS 'success' stories on=20 > glossy paperB > that nobody sees, or get posted on a web site that they don't=20 > drive traffic  > to.  >=20? > HP does nothing other than preach to the existing customer=20  > base to say that= > VMS is right for mission-critical computing, except when=20  > Cerner or OM Group" > drops a customer into their lap. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Sybase's e-mail below  > ---------------------- >=20< > Think open-source software can't cut it in the enterprise? >=20B > Still consider Linux short on availability, manageability and=20 > scalability? >=204 > Unsure about vendor support and user endorsements? >=20G > Attend this Web seminar and hear how Sybase and IBM have teamed up to > > deliver a complete end-to-end Linux-based data management=20 > solution that ? > meets demanding enterprise computing requirements for high=20  > performance and  > low ownership cost.  >=20 > The Right Move% > Mission-Critical Solutions on Linux  >=20    H Mmm.. Yep, Linux for the enterprise .. It is certainly an option. For DBG vendors who license by CPU (and core) lots of smaller boxes is great as A it means extra revenue for them - especially if the DB clustering I options are included since there is additional costs per cpu involved.=20   F Not sure how Sybase licenses its cluster option, but I suspect that it will also be cpu based.   F However, one does need to consider the effort and resources to QA/TestH the Vendor recommended monthly *security* patches in a similar matter asD Windows. QA/test and patch roll-out groups will love the extra work.  G Course, how important is security in most enterprises these days anyway  eh?   
 Reference:6 https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/0 [click on thread for each month and add them up]  C Last I counted, there was approx 140+ since Jan of this year (2005) @ alone. June so far has 27. Then count all of the ones in 2004 ..  $ Gotta love the industry hype though.   :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:36:59 -0600 4 From: Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>A Subject: Re: Support *for* Oracle Rdb on CHARON-VAX Emulators ??? * Message-ID: <42C295EB.89A68AAC@oracle.com>  5 I believe that last year Oracle announced that it was 1 supporting Rdb on Charon-VAX configurations (with 2 wording very similar to HP's support of VMS).  You can read about this at:    I http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/rdb/htdocs/rdb7/charon_vax.html   : In that context, it is Oracle announcing that Rdb is being= supported on Charon-VAX configurations.  I don't believe that 7 this is confusing (or, really, all that big of a deal).   : Is there a problem that you're seeing or is this just idle curiousity?    Didier MORANDI wrote:  >  > Good morning all,  > E > 26C in Valbonne this morning. Sunny lovely day, as it was so often  > during the DEC ECC time... > < > I found today in dba.openvms.org the following information= > (http://dba.openvms.org/stories.php?story=05/06/24/6977052)  > 1 > "Support for Oracle Rdb on CHARON-VAX Emulators # > Friday June 24 2005 @ 10:29AM EDT ' > This press release is slightly dated.  > E > Software Resources International (SRI) has developed a range of VAX H > emulator products that prolong the use of HP OpenVMS VAX applications.D > CHARON-VAX products emulate complete VAX systems on OpenVMS Alpha,G > Linux, or Windows platforms, allowing applications, layered products, * > tools, and middleware to run unmodified. > C > Oracle Corporation supports VAX versions of Oracle Rdb and Oracle H > CODASYL DBMS and their related products running on CHARON-VAX providedF > that any problems reported can be reproduced by Oracle Support on anC > actual VAX. Customers migrating from VAX to a CHARON-VAX emulated G > environment should check with their Oracle account managers regarding G > licensing. Oracle's Global Pricing and Licensing rules apply. In most J > cases, Oracle license and service agreements are transferred to the same/ > number of CHARON-VAX processors at no charge.  > H > For more information about CHARON-VAX emulators and migration from VAXG > to CHARON-VAX see the website http://WWW.CHARONVAX.com , or contact a ; > reseller sales representative at 336-661-0890, ext. 106 / B > cwgraham@SalemAutomation.com for benchmark performance data from. > Oracle's testing of Rdb on CHARON-VAX 6630." > " > Should not this article entitled2 > Support *OF* Oracle Rdb on CHARON-VAX Emulators? > D > Because, otherwise, it seems to say that *now* Charon-VAX supportsH > Oracle Rdb, which is not the truth, afaik. Charon-VAX "supports" everyL > software "supported" on a real VAX, just because it emulates the hardware. >  > What do you think? >  > D. > --6 >   Didier MORANDI - VMS Expert and SAP CRM Consultant6 > 13 chemin du Gu - 1213 Petit-Lancy (GE) Switzerland4 >      Phone: +336 7983 6418 - www.didiermorandi.com   --  	 - - - - - 0  opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone.  and certainly are not intended in any way to 0  express or represent any opinions or commitment  of oracle corporation.   *  norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:26:07 +0200 " From: Didier MORANDI <no@spam.com>A Subject: Re: Support *for* Oracle Rdb on CHARON-VAX Emulators ??? ' Message-ID: <42C2D9AF.3010707@spam.com>    Norman Lastovica a crit: 7 > I believe that last year Oracle announced that it was 3 > supporting Rdb on Charon-VAX configurations (with 4 > wording very similar to HP's support of VMS).  You > can read about this at:  >   K > http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/rdb/htdocs/rdb7/charon_vax.html  > < > In that context, it is Oracle announcing that Rdb is being? > supported on Charon-VAX configurations.  I don't believe that 9 > this is confusing (or, really, all that big of a deal).  > < > Is there a problem that you're seeing or is this just idle
 > curiousity?   C Hi Norman, too bad I missed your presentation. Passport problem. I   arrived on Monday evening.  D Just idle curiousity and language barrier as would Guy Peleg say :-)   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:33:05 +0200 ( From: "ns" <Norbert@Nospam.Stadlers.net>, Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality) Message-ID: <42c27901_1@news.arcor-ip.de>   5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message % news:3id1gjFkre59U4@individual.net... ) > In article <42C0E85E.4010703@spam.com>, & > Didier MORANDI <no@spam.com> writes:F > > One can read in the last Salem Automation newsletter on Charon-VAX > > J http://www.charonvax.com/images/CHARON%20VAX%20Newsletter%20Oct%202004.pdf > > the following information: > > A > > "Every branch of the US military and all the major US defense A > > contractors are using CHARON VAX some at many of their sites"  > > - > > Shouldn't this information be classified?  > # > Not if it's dis-information.  :-)  > > L > > In France, there would be no way for anyone outside an Administration to- > > post any data on the equipments they use.  > >  > J > Contracts for most of this stuff are public information (how else do you) > think the bidders find out about them?)  > B > But, as I said in another post recently I would love to see someG > confirmation of this.  As we all know, VMS takes a level of knowledge D > somewhat beyond Windows/Linux.  The military does not teach it norB > openly solicit people with VMS skills.  That being the case, howB > widespread can it really be beyond a few legacy applications?  ID > have just recently attended the most advanced computing school theG > Army has to offer.  Everyone here probably remembers the only mention  > VMS got there. > G > Don't get me wrong, if its true, I have a vested interest in learning  > it.  >  > bill >  > --  L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  J I've heared that after 9/11 some CHARON-VAX installations was delivered to( exactly that building with five corners.   Norbert Stadler    CHARON-VAX Reseller    Austria and Germany    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 2005 13:09:46 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality+ Message-ID: <3ifksqFl83c1U2@individual.net>   ( In article <opss3vv0aazgicya@hyrrokkin>,& 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:H > On 29 Jun 2005 00:11:13 GMT, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: > @ >> A search right now for either VMS or OpenVMS returns nothing. >  > Did that include Ft Meade?  H The original poster was talking about Lockheed-Martin.  I searched theirF careers page. (Which I have bookmarked as I often go there to look.  II used to work for them in the pre-Lockheed days and it was a great company 
 to work for!)   J And by Ft. Meade I assume you mean No Such Agency.  I saw the news footageI of the immense Alpha farm but experience would make me think it much more H likely that they are running Unix/Linux rather than VMS. I am willing toF be convinced otherwise, but it will take more than vague rumours about the government loving VMS.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 2005 13:12:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality+ Message-ID: <3ifl2cFl83c1U3@individual.net>   3 In article <LRNCPbUZ2GnG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:X > In article <3ie791Fl2ermU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:/ >> In article <42c1b870$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, $ >> 	Dan Notov <d9nn0@hp.com> writes: > K >>> For a number of years, Lockheed Martin was crying for VMS savvy people  - >>> to support a number of military programs.  >>  D >> A search right now for either VMS or OpenVMS returns nothing. :-( > K > Looking at Dice.com for postings with both the words "lockheed" and "VMS" J > today returns 18 hits.  Four of those are explicitly at Air Force bases,I > and two are in England.  I would guess all those are military programs.   C I have dealt with Dice for about 5 years.  I don't put any faith in C them.  I find it hard to believe that Dice has jobs that LMCO's own D HR people don't have.  Unless, of course, they are not LMCO jobs butC short-term sub-contract positions using their association with LMCO ! to try and gain some credibility.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 2005 13:14:40 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality+ Message-ID: <3ifl60Fl83c1U4@individual.net>   ) In article <42c27901_1@news.arcor-ip.de>, + 	"ns" <Norbert@Nospam.Stadlers.net> writes:  > 7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' > news:3id1gjFkre59U4@individual.net... * >> In article <42C0E85E.4010703@spam.com>,' >> Didier MORANDI <no@spam.com> writes: G >> > One can read in the last Salem Automation newsletter on Charon-VAX  >> >L > http://www.charonvax.com/images/CHARON%20VAX%20Newsletter%20Oct%202004.pdf >> > the following information:  >> >B >> > "Every branch of the US military and all the major US defenseB >> > contractors are using CHARON VAX some at many of their sites" >> >. >> > Shouldn't this information be classified? >>$ >> Not if it's dis-information.  :-) >> >M >> > In France, there would be no way for anyone outside an Administration to . >> > post any data on the equipments they use. >> > >>K >> Contracts for most of this stuff are public information (how else do you * >> think the bidders find out about them?) >>C >> But, as I said in another post recently I would love to see some H >> confirmation of this.  As we all know, VMS takes a level of knowledgeE >> somewhat beyond Windows/Linux.  The military does not teach it nor C >> openly solicit people with VMS skills.  That being the case, how C >> widespread can it really be beyond a few legacy applications?  I E >> have just recently attended the most advanced computing school the H >> Army has to offer.  Everyone here probably remembers the only mention >> VMS got there.  >>H >> Don't get me wrong, if its true, I have a vested interest in learning >> it. >> >> bill  >> >> -- M >> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves G >> bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  >> University of Scranton   | A >> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  > L > I've heared that after 9/11 some CHARON-VAX installations was delivered to* > exactly that building with five corners.  F If that's the case, they may not still be there.  The system I used toD work with in that computer room belonged to an agency that no longerH exists and I doubt anyone took over their old hardware/software systems.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:39:19 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality( Message-ID: <opss4v7tk4zgicya@hyrrokkin>  F On 29 Jun 2005 13:09:46 GMT, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  * > In article <opss3vv0aazgicya@hyrrokkin>,( > 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:I >> On 29 Jun 2005 00:11:13 GMT, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  >>A >>> A search right now for either VMS or OpenVMS returns nothing.  >> >> Did that include Ft Meade?  > J > The original poster was talking about Lockheed-Martin.  I searched theirH > careers page. (Which I have bookmarked as I often go there to look.  IK > used to work for them in the pre-Lockheed days and it was a great company  > to work for!)  > F > And by Ft. Meade I assume you mean No Such Agency.  I saw the news  	 > footage K > of the immense Alpha farm but experience would make me think it much more J > likely that they are running Unix/Linux rather than VMS. I am willing toH > be convinced otherwise, but it will take more than vague rumours about > the government loving VMS. > C Thet aye also a big PL/I shop.  BTW, don't forget Northrup-Grumman.  > bill >    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 10:51:54 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality3 Message-ID: <k$lpa8uSvauS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3ifl2cFl83c1U3@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 > In article <LRNCPbUZ2GnG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 > 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:Y >> In article <3ie791Fl2ermU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 0 >>> In article <42c1b870$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>,% >>> 	Dan Notov <d9nn0@hp.com> writes:  >>  L >>>> For a number of years, Lockheed Martin was crying for VMS savvy people . >>>> to support a number of military programs. >>> E >>> A search right now for either VMS or OpenVMS returns nothing. :-(  >>  L >> Looking at Dice.com for postings with both the words "lockheed" and "VMS"K >> today returns 18 hits.  Four of those are explicitly at Air Force bases, J >> and two are in England.  I would guess all those are military programs. > E > I have dealt with Dice for about 5 years.  I don't put any faith in E > them.  I find it hard to believe that Dice has jobs that LMCO's own F > HR people don't have.  Unless, of course, they are not LMCO jobs butE > short-term sub-contract positions using their association with LMCO # > to try and gain some credibility.   3 I thought the issue was not terms of employment but   L >>>> For a number of years, Lockheed Martin was crying for VMS savvy people . >>>> to support a number of military programs.  F If Lockheed wants to run their VMS machines with contractors it may beG they don't list the openings on their own site.  Lots of companies will - only hire contractors through third parties.     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:49:54 +0200 0 From: Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de>, Subject: Re: US military and confidentialityA Message-ID: <42c2d134$0$1124$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:+ > In article <42c27901_1@news.arcor-ip.de>, - > 	"ns" <Norbert@Nospam.Stadlers.net> writes:  > 7 >>"Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' >>news:3id1gjFkre59U4@individual.net...  >>* >>>In article <42C0E85E.4010703@spam.com>,' >>>Didier MORANDI <no@spam.com> writes:  >>> F >>>>One can read in the last Salem Automation newsletter on Charon-VAX >>>> >>L >>http://www.charonvax.com/images/CHARON%20VAX%20Newsletter%20Oct%202004.pdf >> >>>>the following information: >>>>A >>>>"Every branch of the US military and all the major US defense A >>>>contractors are using CHARON VAX some at many of their sites"  >>>>- >>>>Shouldn't this information be classified?  >>> $ >>>Not if it's dis-information.  :-) >>> L >>>>In France, there would be no way for anyone outside an Administration to- >>>>post any data on the equipments they use.  >>>> >>> K >>>Contracts for most of this stuff are public information (how else do you * >>>think the bidders find out about them?) >>> C >>>But, as I said in another post recently I would love to see some H >>>confirmation of this.  As we all know, VMS takes a level of knowledgeE >>>somewhat beyond Windows/Linux.  The military does not teach it nor C >>>openly solicit people with VMS skills.  That being the case, how C >>>widespread can it really be beyond a few legacy applications?  I E >>>have just recently attended the most advanced computing school the H >>>Army has to offer.  Everyone here probably remembers the only mention >>>VMS got there.  >>> H >>>Don't get me wrong, if its true, I have a vested interest in learning >>>it. >>>  >>>bill  >>>  >>>-- M >>>Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves G >>>bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  >>>University of Scranton   | A >>>Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  >>L >>I've heared that after 9/11 some CHARON-VAX installations was delivered to* >>exactly that building with five corners. >  > H > If that's the case, they may not still be there.  The system I used toF > work with in that computer room belonged to an agency that no longerJ > exists and I doubt anyone took over their old hardware/software systems. >  > bill >   G I was quoted the exact number of "OpenVMS Systems" working "currently"  G in the Pentagon by a "person who must know" earlier this year. Since I  F don't remember now the exact number, I'll only say for certain it was G certainly more than 300, and possibly much more. I say "more than 300"  I because I wish to be absolutely boolean truthful and not invent a number  > from a potentially faulty memory. I should have wrote it down.  ( Please note the following links as well.  6 After 9/11 Pentagon looking for 70+ VAX 7800s - GoogleD http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3ba238eb%241_3%40news.iglou.comD http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/bf2d0febf2c417eb  F There is one caveat concerning the Lockhead-Martin jobs at Dice which F may apply. Lockheed-Martin has also has projects concerning a Vehicle F Management System for Jet Fighters and a Vessel Management System for  Ships.  2 Lockheed Martin F-22 - Vehicle Management System -2 TRW Communications/Navigation/Identification (CNI)# look under heading "Avionics Racks" I http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-22-avionics.htm   E Lockheed Martin announces support for U.S. National Marine Fisheries  & Service Vessel Monitoring System (VMS)X http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=12179&rsbci=0&fti=0&ti=0&sc=400    G That being said, there exists collateral showing Lockheed Martin, it's  G subcontractors, and various military and industrial organisations make  G use of OpenVMS in many (on-going) products and projects. Here's hoping  I the following references will help you make your (OpenVMS) case when the   occasion arises.  < Lockheed Space Systems Company - Strategic Missile Program -/ Salem Automation CHARON-Vax Success Story - PDF W http://www.winvms.com/images/Lockheed%20Martin%20Cape%20Canaveral%20Success%20Story.pdf   I Pratt & Whitney - F119 Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) for  I the Lockheed Martin F/22A Raptor (formerly the Advanced Tactical Fighter) # http://www.adaic.org/atwork/pw.html     ) *OpenVMS in the U.S. Military Collateral*   @ Northrop Grumman Information Technology - J-STARS with OpenVMS -, The COTS Revolution (see caption on page 66)+ http://www.armada.ch/02-5/complete_02-5.pdf   C J-STARS - Customer Brief - U.S. Air Force surveillance equipment -   Wayback Machine W http://web.archive.org/web/20030424152602/http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/news/jstar.html   6 J-STARS - newspaper article in New Hampshire Telegraph! http://www.genetek.com/JSTARS.htm   F OpenVMS Lives On In The Not-So-Friendly Skies (Compaq to supply OS on = machines for Air Force) - InformationWeek - HighBeam Research o http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?DOCID=1G1:77138738&num=114&ctrlInfo=Round5a%3AMode5a%3ASR%3AResult&ao=    Raytheon - Hardened Computers - B ECOTS Products (Extended Environment Commercial- Off- The- Shelf)" http://www.raytheon-computers.com/  G HP VMS Ambassador working at a customer site (Joint Forces Command) in   Suffolk, VA. - Google D http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/db7871fbc3d2e157  5 U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs - VistA Monograph # http://www1.va.gov/vista_monograph/   F U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs - (OpenVMS Clusters) - HP Awarded  $784 Million Services ContractU http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=857e9e41.0403240626.4017bc3%40posting.google.com   C InformationWeek > Business Services > VA Hospitals Sign HP To $784  ( Million IT-Support Deal > March 24, 2004I http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=18401553     Big Federal Contract for HP - VA9 http://www.line56.com/articles/default.asp?ArticleID=5489   % U.S. Navy - Moving-Map Composer (MMC) 0 http://www7440.nrlssc.navy.mil/client-server.htm  ' U.S. Coast Guard - Marine Safety Center 1 http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/nmc/pubs/msm/v4/c2.htm   9 Super Hornet - AN/ALQ-165 (ASPJ) was programmed using VMS " http://www.sci.fi/~fta/aviat-5.htm  4 U.S. Army - BBS and CBS Battle Simulations - MS Word? http://www.strategypage.com/prowg/simulationshandbook/chp_7.doc    U.S. Army - UCCATS - MS Word? http://www.strategypage.com/prowg/simulationshandbook/chp_8.doc   G U.S. Air Force - Air Mobility Command - Agencies worry about future of  $ DEC's OpenVMS - GCN February 9, 19987 http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/February9/cov4.htm   ? U.S. Air Force - TACCSF (Theater Aerospace Command and Control  C Simulation Facility) - VSTARS (Virtual Surveillance, Targeting and   Attack Radar System), http://www.gcn.com/vol20_no4/dod/3679-1.html  ' Predator UAV use OpenVMS in Telemetry - 7 Could a PC do this - Don't think so - Google Groups COV D http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/79acacc3663dd581      ( *OpenVMS in other Militaries Collateral*  / Eurofighter - avionics written in Digital's ADA : http://www.tni-europe.com/tnie/casestudies/eurofighter.htm  4 Eurocontrol Euro-Airspace Air Traffic Management and5 Eurofighter Typhoon, Nimrod & Hawk - CP HOOD Examples 5 http://www.tni-world.com/flashmx/cp_hood_examples.asp    Tigre Helicopter -H anti-tank and protection missions management software written on OpenVMS* http://www.tni-world.com/flashmx/tiger.asp    G Although many of the links show implementations in projects started in  I the 90's, the tendency to use existing code bases would be great for the  B recent follow-on projects. It is also not to be expected that the G implementation details of currently forming projects to be made public  B knowledge. So the question of recent implementations is sort of a  "Catch-22".     + http://www.rajaniemi.com/data/diduknow.html    Cheers!    Keith Cayemberg    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:14:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality, Message-ID: <42C2D6E4.506DFDF8@teksavvy.com>  A I find it interesting that there would even be such a discussion.   F When Microsoft makes a sale to the military, you can bet your ass thatF Microsoft will be bragging about it. They may not give many details onC exactly what those systems will do, but they will brag about it big ( time. Same with other operating systems.  F But when the owner of VMS makes a sale to the military, the owner usesF the excuse "sorry, it is confidential, we can't talk about it" and VMS never gets marketed.  # They are EXCUSES to not market VMS.   F When supercomputer vendors make sales to nuclear research labs who getD funding from the military, you can bet that they will advertise thisE with nice press releases and make sure that those sites are ranked in % the most powerful computers listings.   6 Buit if there is a VMS sale, it doesn't get mentioned.    F The military may not wish the vendor to release certain details of theC machines, but it most certaintly allows non-VBMS system sales to be C announced by the vendor. And there is no reason why VMS couldn't be  publisised in the same way.     E The is the same as the HP apoligists who continue to state that HP is E not allowed to reveal product specific financial information, even in C the face of HP revealing product specific financial information for  products that are not VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:27:23 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr>  Subject: Re: Vax emulator 2 Message-ID: <42c23f4a$0$694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>   Dan Foster wrote:   0 > There's also SIMH which does a great job, too. >  > http://simh.trailing-edge.com  > < > And a step-by-step HOWTO on how to install VMS under SIMH: > < > http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html  B "And a step-by-step HOWTO on how to install VMS under SIMH/Linux"!  % Is there the same howto for Windaube?    D.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 07:34:28 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Vax emulator 3 Message-ID: <n2jDFpbF7oXw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <42C206CC.E192AB70@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > Caligula wrote:  >>  R >> Are there any vax emulators for linux suitable for someone who wants to revisit >> VMS ? >>  ? >> I am aware of Charon, however it appears to be windows only.  > I > Charon-VAX is available for OpenVMS and, I believe, some UN*X variants.   "    SIMH runs everywhere I take it.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 07:36:27 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Vax emulator 3 Message-ID: <SAyraXsnyYQP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <42c23f4a$0$694$626a14ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <prenom.nom@freesurf.fr> writes: > Dan Foster wrote:  > 1 >> There's also SIMH which does a great job, too.  >>    >> http://simh.trailing-edge.com >>  = >> And a step-by-step HOWTO on how to install VMS under SIMH:  >>  = >> http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html  > D > "And a step-by-step HOWTO on how to install VMS under SIMH/Linux"! > ' > Is there the same howto for Windaube?   B    I did my laptop first and had no problems following the how-to.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:16:55 GMT 1 From: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx>  Subject: Re: Vax emulator : Message-ID: <slrndc57q0.blp.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx>  5 On 2005-06-29, Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote: H > Only limitation with Windows is that it seems to be unable to use a CDH > image, so you need to burn VMS to a physical CDROM, and then use that. > > > Linux can use either CD images or a physical CDROM for SIMH.  D Some programs (Nero, for example) come with a driver that will allowH mounting a CD image as a drive. I would expect that to let SIMH use a CD$ image the same way you can on Linux.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 09:06:47 -0700# From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: Vax emulator C Message-ID: <1120061206.932455.306620@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   B I've found that under Mac OS X "Panther" I'm able to assign a simhF device to the appropriate /dev/whatever and then under VMS I can mountD and read it directly. The trouble is that it's a little hard to tellF which of several OS X disk devices should be used, and the device nameF changes every time you load another piece of media in the drive. I didF find a unix tool that made this easier by displaying information about? each disk device; it may have been called disktool or diskinfo.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:39:17 +0200 " From: Didier MORANDI <no@spam.com> Subject: Re: Vax emulator ' Message-ID: <42C2DCC5.8050807@spam.com>    Dan Foster a crit:   E > I have tested SIMH on my Windows company-issued laptop and it works 5 > fine. I also used the same step-by-step HOWTO, too.  > G > The only difference is that instead of paths like /usr/local/vax, you E > would specify (e.g.) C:\VAX or whatever path you prefer in Windows.  > E > For Windows, if the instructions says (e.g.) vax/ka655.bin then you K > change it to vax\ka655.bin. There are a few / refererences to change to \  > J > Also, there is a slight change of procedure for getting Ethernet supportG > to work. You also have to install WinPcap -- it is a packet capturing E > library for Windows so that SIMH can examine packets and claim ones F > headed for the emulated VAX. You can get the Windows binary and also7 > follow an URL to get WinPcap from the SIMH home page.  > H > Only limitation with Windows is that it seems to be unable to use a CDH > image, so you need to burn VMS to a physical CDROM, and then use that.  F Looks like it could be a subject for the next VMS Technical Journal...   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:45:59 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download0 Message-ID: <11c4gomi70ej6d1@corp.supernews.com>  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:
 > HP Now nows  >   E A short post like that, ominous, with no commentary on the response,   leaves me with a bad feeling.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:06:07 +1200 $ From: "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download4 Message-ID: <kIrwe.11209$U4.1430116@news.xtra.co.nz>  6 "George Cook" <cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> wrote in message news:OnhtCM1f3JW0@wvnvms...   3 > In the case of the pyramids, what would happen to G > the "absolute" property rights of the owners of all the tourist traps A > around the pyramids if the pyramids were torn down and the land  > converted into a trash dump?  > Easy, they would still have their property. How much the valueG of the property was impacted is a different question but it would still 
 be theirs.  0 Whoever bought those property rights bought themA because of the pyramids. Presumably, it's in the mutual interests A of both the pyramid and "turist trap" owners to keep those things G going. But, just in case, the turist-trap owners should make sure there A is a clause somehwere there that doesn't allow the pyramid owners E to tear the pyramids down overnight (or pay compensation if they do). D If no such agreement or provision has been reached and signed - thenB it's just too tough on the trap owners - should have known better.  B There is also something called "reasonable support" clause in mostA legal codes. That means that even if you own the land you are not @ allowed to dig a hole 1mm away from your neighbour's land 'causeB it would make his house to collapse into the hole that you've dug.? That, however, might be a bit tricky to enforce if you go ahead  and remove the pyramids :-)    ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 29 Jun 05 08:35:52 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download, Message-ID: <392dnUhxPdDS4V_fRVn-uQ@rcn.net>  5 In article <d9rqfe$c8p$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>, ,    m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) wrote:G >In article <o4qdnTqf3s1nylzfRVn-hg@rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: @ >> >I don't see any *good* reason why it shouldn't be this way.  >>  A >> For the simple reason that you arenn't buying this software.    >> >? >> >> You really, really, really, REALLY don't know what you're > >> >> talking about.  Now you have a million lawyers invovled. >> >? >> >Why ? If the law is crystal-clear consumer-friendly instead = >> >of producer-friendly there's no need to involve a lawyer.  >>  + >> This has nothing do with friendliness.    > 
 >Sure it has.   : No, it doesn't.  You want us OS and platform developers to: work for free and give you any thing you demand right now.5 This is impossible.  DEC's OS developers were paid to 9 deliver software that would assist DEC's customers to get 4 computing work done and ensure that the system would5 not hinder these users.  Our designs were never, ever > meant to be used by every random Joe and Jenny off the street.  8 Our business models never insisted that a completely new5 set of software had to be installed just because the  3 hardware changed.  This is not an easy thing to do. 7 You, sir, have been Micosofted, which is a serious form 8 of brain damage if you want to do any serious computing.    1 > . A consumer-friendly law could state that once < >you pay money for the CD containing the binary plus (maybe)) >some activation key it's complete yours     It is not yours.   > ..and you can do whatever 	 >you want     You can use it however you want.   > .. (including reselling)  = No.  REad you license agreement.  Unless things have changed, 9 the person you sell the gear to should be relicensing the 9 software.  Most people who have any sense and who have a  : need for real computing, will buy your hardware and start  over with the software.   + > .. and the producer has no say any more.  ? >IP rights of the producer are guaranteed by forbidding copying  >and re-engineering etc.  I >It's a "simple" act of law, not the religious issue you want to make it.   C This has nothing to do with religion.  You are making it a religion A because you want us to do the work for free without compensation.  Developers eat, too.  K >I agree with you that this is relatively unlikely to happen, at least for   the nextH >few years, but not because the IP propagandists have god on their side,/ >but simply the (currently) stronger lobbyists.   B If you do get your way, there will no more development of software? that works well.  Only crap will be produced.  Why do you think I we're discussing this?  Your demand for free bits will kill the business.    > C >And I still can't see how that would affect the financials of the  
 producers.  @ I suggest that you get a job and learn from practical experience6 why this would affect the financials of the producers.; We have done this and we're telling you that you are wrong.   2 Most of us have experience, decades of experience.  C >Do car makers go bankrupt because there are used cars out there ?    C You are trying to equate a fleet of cars with one copy of software. = It can't be done.  It's like comparing a horse with the wagon 	 it pulls.  >  >> You are not buying = >> this software.  You do not own it.  It is copyrighted.  Do 1 >> you see your name in that copyright statement?   : I notice you ignored this questions.  Do you see your name in that copyright statement?   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 29 Jun 05 08:45:37 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download, Message-ID: <392dnUtxPdAF41_fRVn-uQ@rcn.net>  7 In article <Xns9683EFA161D6Cdcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>, (    "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> wrote:8 >%NEWS-I-NEWMSG,  wrote in news:1119989180.906485.134270 >@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >  >> HP Now nows > . >I assume that's meant to read "HP now knows". > K >Please point them to the heated and impassioned discussion here that puts  . >the original poster's actions in perspective.  : This idea didn't work 8 years ago, why should it work now?   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 29 Jun 05 08:46:58 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download, Message-ID: <392dnUpxPdB041_fRVn-uQ@rcn.net>  0 In article <11c4gomi70ej6d1@corp.supernews.com>,+    Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: # >susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote:  >> HP Now nows >>   > F >A short post like that, ominous, with no commentary on the response,  >leaves me with a bad feeling.  = Yes, especially if she really has some power to get something  done as the other posts imply.   /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:47:38 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download) Message-ID: <d9u1oq$ik4$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   V In article <3id6l2FkkaeaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:6 >In article <d9rl4u$ael$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de>,, >	m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) writes:Y >> In article <3iath7Fhmt60U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>> H >>> So, you would agree to pay extra for the base OS in order to supportF >>> the various users who use the parts you don't have any need for?   >>   >> Well, in principle yes.  2 >> Most (if not all) other vendors do it this way,H >> and I haven't heard that you pay through your nose to get the base OS% >> of AIX, Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX, etc.  > K >Yes, but they all have one thing in common,  They are all just warmed over J >versions of Unix.  If they weren't kept dirt-cheap no one would use them.C >Even today their market share is being constantly eroded by Linux.  > < >> BTW we are not talking specialized exotic features here, = >> but stuff like networking, GUI, possibly LVM/JFS features, 2 >> all of which you would need to run a modern OS. > B >I thought we were talking VMS here?  In the OS market VMS is bothD >specialized and exotic.  It offers features (security, reliability,D >scalability, etc.) that none of the OSes you mentioned above offer. >  >>   >>> See,H >>> it goes both ways.  If you bundle everything then everything is moreF >>> expensive.  If you let people only pay for what they need/want the$ >>> product becomes more attractive. >>  . >> Still doesn't answer my principle question.> >> IBM, Sun, pre-merger HP, etc don't have any problem to makeJ >> their products attractive without a bizarre component/licensing scheme. > C >Because they have nothing to offer and thus have to keep margin to A >a minimum all of them making their money selling hardware rather  >than the OS.  >  >>   >>> E >>> At this stage of the game, I doubt that royalties to other people F >>> make up any sizeable amount of the cost of Solaris. I haven't seenD >>> the release of the source code yet so I don't know that there isH >>> anything in there that still draws royalties.  After all, they offerG >>> nothing that is not also offered by Linux and the various BSD's and F >>> they don't pay anyone royalties.  Is it so hard to assume that SUNE >>> long ago removed anything that was still proprietary beyond their 
 >>> own labs?  >>  D >> I don't know. But look at IBM, certainly a late-comer in the UNIX? >> business, they sure have licensed a lot of stuff from others < >> (judging from the copyright's scattered all over the OS).> >> And if Sun managed to remove royalty stuff to be cheaper or. >> less obligated, why can't DEC^WCompaq^WHP ? >   I The vast majority of software on the consolidated distribution is old DEC  software which HP totally owns. * Only a few items attract Royalty payments   ( From the DECCAMPUS listing for Alpha VMS  = ALL-IN-1 Office Server options (in various language variants)  DSM/Japanese, hp Archive backup system (server and client). HP Storage Library system for OpenVMS (server). HP Storage Library system for OpenVMS (Remote) KAP C for openVMS alpha  KAP Fortran for openVMS alpha  HP Pathworks for OpenVMS      ( TCPIP Services is NOT a royalty product.L Motif is NOT a royalty product (At least as far as DECCAMPUS is concerned - I It's possible there may be a special deal on this and other products for  L education use - or some Royalties might be paid out of the fees charged for  DECCAMPUS).     
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >  >bill  >  >-- K >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves E >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  >University of Scranton   | B >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>      ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 29 Jun 05 10:20:15 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download, Message-ID: <a-Odnaq4jqtbCV_fRVn-qg@rcn.net>  C In article <1119970426.298640.116410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, (    "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote: >  >  >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  <snip>  B >> It isn't not your right to create these exceptions for products@ >> that are owned by somebody else.  You tread on very dangerous< >> grounds of anarchy here.  Would you like somebody to have> >> the same idea about your personal property when they decide; >> they want to start making the exception that it is OK to > >> take possession of your car just because they felt like it? >  >  >Woah! > H >1. The fact is that such exceptions are made all the time. Zoning laws,< >expiration of patents, copyrights, and trademarks; landmarkG >preservation. Even in the computing biz there are export restrictions.   ; I want you to examine the circumstances of when copyrights   expire.  > E >2. If I owned the pyramids and wanted to destroy them, would that be  >okay?  ; Assuming you can own property in Egypt, it depends on their 7 laws about property rights.  You should notice that the ; owners of certain Bhudda facimiles destroyed them according  to their laws.   > H >3. If I were a member of a band and played concerts, and my fans wanted9 >recordings of the concerts, I would make them available.   < And why would you do that?  You wish to keep the goodwill of> your fans.  You are not doing this out of the goodness of your= heart; you expect them to pay lots of money for their tickets  at your next concert.    > .. I would not do G >like the record comapnies do. There is a demand for a lot of very good F >recorded music that people are willing to pay money for but never see( >the light of day. I think that's wrong.  ? No, it's not wrong.  It's extremely stupid, but it is not wrong  nor illegal.   > ? >3a. OK, software is different enough to merit more evaluation,  >discussion, thought, etc.  @ No.  We have already done this evalutation, discussion, thought,; etc.  We are telling you that doing what the idiot did was  = Bad.  Very bad.  We know this because we've seen what happens  when the deed is corrected.  > F >What I'm trying to say is that ownership doesn't have infinite value.E >There will be exceptions, but there should be a very good reason for  >each and every exception. > C >I AM NOT SAYING EVERYTHING SHOULD BE FREE FOR ALL. NO NO NO NO NO!  > * >See my other post from a few minutes ago.  > I did.  We're trying to caution you to think a little bit more= about your approach.  In our experience, it doesn't work.  In ; the experience of other types of business, it destroyed the ' innovation within that business sector.    <snip>  > >> Yes, and it's called the hobbyists' program.  The OP wanted >> to destroy that.  > @ >I am against what the OP is doing because he is endangering the >hobbyist program.  < The situation is worse than that.  The OP is endangering the; opportunities for people in the computing business to learn B other approaches to solving computing deliver of service problems.   <snip>  I >> >There is too obligation. If a corporation sells you something that is G >> >defective, or worse, dangerous, you can sue them in court. I'm just I >> >saying that at some level it seems unfair to pull the carpet out from K >> >under those who use VMS. I'm not saying that it 100% supreme, but it is  >> >not 0% either! >>( >> You need to learn how commerce works. > D >The U.S. is a great economic power in part due to the fact that theE >gov't has established and maintains an environment (business, legal, > >academic, what have you) that allows motivated businesses andG >individuals to succeed better than in other countries. Part of that is D >an occasional exception to "owners rule" for lack of a better term.E >These exceptions include zoning laws; expiration of ownership rights H >(copyrights, patents, etc.); eminent domain (I disagree with the recentD >Supreme Court's ruling on this issue (New London, CT); safety laws;G >criminal and civil laws; protection of the environment laws, etc. Such @ >exceptions should only be done with very good reason, but there >sometimes IS very good reason.  > G >So I think I am not really in any great disagreement with you, or Bill C >Gunshannon, or Lurker. I'm certainly not a communist! I just don't D >think that "well, they own it" should be the end of the discussion.  @ It should be the end of the "give it away to everybody for free"9 discussion.  You will notice that a certain poster still  ; thinks that he owns the product because he a buck for a CD.     B >Such discussion may well give the same end result, but one shouldE >consider that there are competing interests and I think that none of  >them have infinite value. >  > F >AND AGAIN, I APOLOGIZE FOR MY MISSTATEMENT ABOUT HP'S RIGHT TO DROP A	 >PRODUCT.  > > >It was my fault and I accept the blame and the responsiblity.  9 No need to apologize if you learn the consequences of the 8 kind of idea you had.  When you think of a solution, you8 have to be able to consider everything that can go wrong plus more. :-)   > E >I hope that I haven't misspoken again! and that that my thoughts are + >better expressed and more clear this time.  > 8 >(Yeah, my communication skills aren't always the best.)  ; None of us have the best skills.  And this newsgroup medium = makes everything worse because of the time delay.  It reminds > me of trying to talk to a European customer on the half-duplex phone.   <snip>   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 2005 12:56:48 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download+ Message-ID: <3ifk4fFl83c1U1@individual.net>   C In article <1120012439.663678.236660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, ' 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:F >> In article <1119911179.790552.101040@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,* >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >> > >> > >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: H >> >> In article <1119895919.982108.17200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,- >> >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >> >> >  >> >> >  >> >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:L >> >> >> In article <1119887254.046020.321350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,0 >> >> >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:
 >> >> >> >N >> >> >> > Then why couldn't the owner of Grand Central Terminal tear it down? >> >> >>/ >> >> >> Because we have a warped court system.  >> >> > H >> >> > I beg to differ in this case! GCT is a magnificent building thatM >> >> > deserves to be protected. Not as good as Penn Station was, but still,  >> >> > pretty good. >> >> L >> >> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I have no artistic sense at allJ >> >> and see most things that others consider "great art" as just so muchJ >> >> junk. (Like the recent fiasco in Central Park)  That being the case,I >> >> I see no reason to limit ownership rights because of someone else's L >> >> artistic sense.  If you think it should be preserved, buy it yourself.N >> >> At what ever price the owner asks.  If you think it is worth it you willM >> >> raise the money but if not, what right do you have to tell me I have to F >> >> incur the monetary loss in order to please your aesthetic sense? >> >E >> > Well, I don't know the details of the GCT. Maybe the owners were I >> > compensated. I don't know. But I'm glad it's still there. We're just E >> > going to differ on this one. Also, the train station has a great L >> > economic value for getting commuters to and from NYC. So, it's not justL >> > artisitic in value. Also, many, many advertisements contain pictures orE >> > footage using GCT as a backdrop, giving more benefits. It's also J >> > valuable as a tourist atraction, bringing yet more money to the city. >> > It's more than just "art".  >>F >> None of which is relevant to the owner.  If someone wants it put toJ >> a diferent purpose than the owner then they should buy it at the ownersJ >> asking price (or whatever price the two parties can negotiate) and thenK >> whne they own it, do what they want with it.  Recent history (especially K >> as covered by a number of recent news programs) would seem to imply that H >> he was not likely to be compensated.  Governments are running rampant/ >> with the "right of emminent domain" of late.  > " > I'm all for proper compensation. >  >> >> >L >> > In one sense it's just a zoning decision, but admittedly a very focused	 >> > one.  >>I >> And one that takes from one person for the gain of another.  Punishing G >> one man for his accomplishments while rewarding another for nothing.  > 5 > Destroying a public landmark is an accomplishment?    D No, having the wherewithall to be able to afford to own the buildingD was the accomplishment.  Even if he bought it when it was only worthE $5.00.  In that case it was a good investment and that's a major part   of being successful at business.  H >                                                     If you build a GCTG > in your own place, away from the public, and do not admit the public, F > fine. Destroy it later if you like. But GCT was much more than that.  C It was a piece of property.  If the owner wants to destroy it, it's B his and he should be allowed to do whatever he wants with it.  AllC the preservationists have to do is offer him enough compensation so B that it is in his best interests to sell it to them rather than toA tear it down.  If he wants more than they are willing to pay what D does that tell you?  Maybe they don't value it as much as you think.   > > > Face it, we're going to disagree on this one no matter what. >  > [...]  >> >> N >> >> Again, I ask why?  If Steven King wanted to take the original manuscriptJ >> >> for "It" or "Carrie" or any other of his many successes (mind you, IL >> >> only ever liked one of his stories and tend not to bother reading mostM >> >> of what he writes) and burn it in his fireplace so that no one ever saw L >> >> it, is that not his right?  What will become of VMS at the end of it's >> > >> >I >> > I have no problem with that. No essential information is lost. But I F >> > don't think he should be allowed to burn all copies of his books. >>I >> Why?  It's his book.  No one has any rights to his IP unless he grants  >> them. > H > I said he shouldn't be able to burn all copies of his books. Suppose IG > have a copy of his book which I legally purchased. You're saying that > > Stephen King has the right to burn my copy of his book? Huh?  E I never suggeswted he had the right to destroy your property.  I said E he had the right to destroy the original manuscript before publishing D so that no one ever saw it.  It was his IP and no one has any rights to it beyond what he grants.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:05:16 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download, Message-ID: <42C2D4C7.CA161B8B@teksavvy.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: * > From the DECCAMPUS listing for Alpha VMSM > Motif is NOT a royalty product (At least as far as DECCAMPUS is concerned - J > It's possible there may be a special deal on this and other products forM > education use - or some Royalties might be paid out of the fees charged for 
 > DECCAMPUS).     H Motif is now open sourced and royalty free except for commercial systemsD that charge for the OS licence. So Motif is still "royalty" for VMS,E with the exception of Hobbyists who get VMS for free, and probably an  exemption for educational.  G However, since Motif requires a licence on VMS, making the media freely H available even to the whole world wouldn't be a problem, especially whenF you can officially get the actual source code of Motif (now at version 2.3) on the net.    & Where there is a will, there is a way.  ? Instead of finding excuses NOT to provide downloadable media to A hobbyists, we should be working to find ways to get it done in an  acceptable way to HP.     G Consider what Sun is doing to Solaris. VMS has to compete against Linux G too. If the owners of VMS think that Linux doesn't compete against VMS, F then they are doing the same mistake as those who thought Sun couldn'tH steal VMS customers away, and later, those who though that Windows wouldD never be able to steal VMS customers (ironic that a few years later,5 palmer did just that: move VMS customers to windows).    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:59:11 +0000 (UTC) $ From: JKB <knatschke@koenigsberg.fr>! Subject: [Announce] FreeVMS 0.1.7 ; Message-ID: <slrndc5hag.1cb.knatschke@rayleigh.systella.fr>    	Hello,    	Written by Roar Throns.   : 	New release available at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/freevms9 	or http://www.systella.fr/~bertrand/FreeVMS/indexGB.html    	News:	 	General: K 	New Bliss version, 0.012, with new ch$ functions, better initial attribute A 	handling, better conditional macro handling and new map support.   	Have started using IFAB in RMS. 	CONFIG_VMS:I 	Have improved support for terminal devices in RMS, so now lib$put_output 
 	may work.   	Bugs fixed:G 	Longword not set in memory management debug poison code lead to panic. , 	Logicals needed better string length check.L 	Process_table did not work due to hash problems and missing initialization.J 	Some possible ones due to "might be used uninitialized in this function".G 	Telnet crash due to lib$asn_wth_mbx giving $crembx one parameter less.    	New bugs/features:  	Lots.K 	Use of lib$put_output may bug the terminal I/O-system if used with telnet.    	Notes: % 	All telnet .b32s compiled, at least. + 	Correctness and linking is another matter.    	Best regards,   	JKB   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.361 ************************