1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 30 Jun 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 362       Contents:? Re: Add VAXELN to Hobbyist Program (Was: OpenVMS Hobby Program) $ Re: AMD vs Intel: links to Compaq/HP$ Re: AMD vs Intel: links to Compaq/HP$ Re: AMD vs Intel: links to Compaq/HP8 Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 20054 Re: Can OpenVMS use Active Directory instead of UAF?! Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP  DS10L losing time  Re: DS10L losing time  Hobbyist Contest Hobbyist contest- Keystroke short cuts for TLViz version 1.604b > Note to the person at pool-70-110-191-53.phil.east.verizon.netB Re: Note to the person at pool-70-110-191-53.phil.east.verizon.net Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: ntp not synchronising  Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program  Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program C Re: Porting and Portability of OpenVMS (was: Re: Revival of Alpha?)  Re: printf conversions Re: printf conversions Re: printf conversions Re: Speaking of promoting VMS  RE: Speaking of promoting VMS / These Inquirer Folks are really well documented # Re: US military and confidentiality # RE: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality # Re: US military and confidentiality  Re: Vax emulator Re: Vax emulator' Re: VAX software available for download ' Re: VAX software available for download  Re: VAX/VMS Mail agent VMS Beginners FAQ on line > WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priorityB Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority0 Re: write sequential variable len record from PC  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 03:03:05 +0000 (UTC) 7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) H Subject: Re: Add VAXELN to Hobbyist Program (Was: OpenVMS Hobby Program)( Message-ID: <d9vnd9$kcp$1@pcls4.std.com>  D clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:  H >I think that adding VAXELN to the program would be very useful for someJ >people, but I suspect that the hardware that it would run on would have aF >form factor that was too big for my requirements. :-) (For my currentJ >project, I'm looking at a board about 13-15 cm absolute maximum size with >USB Host support.)   ' Look for an rtVAX 300.  (No USB though)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:58:20 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: AMD vs Intel: links to Compaq/HP , Message-ID: <42C31964.B117BC31@teksavvy.com>  ! The AMD official complaint is at: \ http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/AMD-Intel_Full_Complaint.pdf  F It is a scanned document, 48 pages (so I can't copy interesting text).  D It is a very readable document, almost like a novel, especially whenH they start listing all sorts of events when intel intervened to prevenst- computer manufacturers from buying AMD chips.   F I am not through this yet, but I can only imagine the type of pressureH Intel put on poor little naive Curly to kill Alpha and donate the IP and compiler people to Intel.   I The types of threaths Intel has done so far is worse than I had expected.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:21:55 +0200 3 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> - Subject: Re: AMD vs Intel: links to Compaq/HP = Message-ID: <42c31f03$0$67255$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>    JF Mezei wrote: # > The AMD official complaint is at: ^ > http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/AMD-Intel_Full_Complaint.pdf > H > It is a scanned document, 48 pages (so I can't copy interesting text). > F > It is a very readable document, almost like a novel, especially whenA > they start listing all sorts of events when intel intervened to 8 > prevenst computer manufacturers from buying AMD chips. > H > I am not through this yet, but I can only imagine the type of pressureF > Intel put on poor little naive Curly to kill Alpha and donate the IP > and compiler people to Intel.  > A > The types of threaths Intel has done so far is worse than I had  > expected.   5 Alleged to have done I suspect is more accurate !!!!!    Dweeb    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:00:40 -0700 * From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>- Subject: Re: AMD vs Intel: links to Compaq/HP 2 Message-ID: <-oidnVE4mPmEtV7fRVn-vQ@mpowercom.net>  ? "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> wrote in message  7 news:42c31f03$0$67255$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk...   B >> The types of threaths Intel has done so far is worse than I had >> expected. > 7 > Alleged to have done I suspect is more accurate !!!!!  > M Intel's defense in Japan was of the "We didn't do it, and we promise to stop  G doing it in the future" sort.  It make the "alleged" difficult to take  H seriously.  Is there anyone (willing to put their name to an affidavit) 5 outside of Intel supporting the claim of no coercion?    Jack Peacock     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:31:05 -0400 , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>A Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT - OpenVMS Technical Journal - June 2005 , Message-ID: <42c30509$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  , I created a pcsi$compressed file (I hope)...   -warren   ? "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message % news:42C202FE.517E6BF1@comcast.net... $ > susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > > D > > It is my pleasure to announce the June 2005 issue of the OpenVMS > > Technical Journal. > > G > > As always, we have a number of excellent articles for you to enjoy.  > > 
 > > [snip] > > K > > We have some excellent articles about products that run on OpenVMS. EMC E > > Legato NetWorker provides backup solutions and supports Oracle in K > > particular. LDdriver is a utility that creates virtual disks from files ; > > or even blocks. Find out how to use both in this issue.  > B > V8.0 of LD is provided on the freeware site as a .PCSI file (notJ > .PCSI$COMPRESSED !!! GRRR!!!!). Download it as BINARY, and then do this: > 4 > $ SET FILE/ATTR=(LRL=8192) HP-VMS-LD-V0800--1.PCSI > E > V8.0 has a /LBN qualifier for the CONNECT command that lets you map I > block ranges on a physical volume to a LD device. Great for breaking up I > those huge SAN array LUNs into more easily usuable chunks. Probably has 0 > other uses, but I've only begun to explore it. >  > --   > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  >  > Coming soon:( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:39:08 -0000 1 From: wspencer@ap.dontspamme.org (Warren Spencer) = Subject: Re: Can OpenVMS use Active Directory instead of UAF? 1 Message-ID: <9684A3F7Cwspenceraporg@216.168.3.30>   5 bob@instantwhip.com wrote in <1115227263.672159.26330  @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:   ( >why all this fuss?  If the user can log' >into one node, why not just use decnet & >and allow him proxy access to all the% >other boxes w/o passwords ... single ) >authentication on the first node w/proxy ! >access on all others ... simple?  >   L Well I think I finally have an answer to this one.  Proxy access won't work I because the user is NOT necessarily logged into box A when he decides to  G log into box B.  He's coming in from a PC over tcp/ip using a terminal  H emulator.  Since he never authenticated against box A, I would assume a 3 proxy on B (from A) would have not have any effect.   1 Please let me know if I'm missing something here.    Thanks,    ws   --   Warren Spencer Senior Software Engineer The Associated Press   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:40:09 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: DCL enhancement more verb/FTP+ Message-ID: <42C35B89.60BFF059@comcast.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > b > In article <42C1F81E.A6078D0A@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > > 7 > > You won't. FAL doesn't do that, unless you wnat to.  > H >    FAL provides it.  Whether you use it is up to you, but it is there. >  > > L > > No, I wanted FAL functionality by whatever magic in so far as IP and TCP$ > > and can be made to support that. > F >    Then its not clear to me what you're sking for that's not already >    there.    DECnet: = $ OPEN RMTFLE node"access_control_string"::ddcu:<dir>name.ext  $READ_LOOP:  $ READ/END=EOF_RMTFLE RMTFLE P9  	. 	. 	. $ GOTO READ_LOOP $EOF_RMTFLE: $ CLOSE RMTFLE $ EXIT  7 $ CREATE/DIRECT node"access_control_string"::ddcu:<dir>   9 $ DELETE node"access_control_string"::ddcu:<dir>name.ext;    TCP/IP: > $ OPEN RMTFLE "user:pass@node.domain.tld::/path_spec/filespec" $READ_LOOP:  $ READ/END=EOF_RMTFLE RMTFLE P9  	. 	. 	. $ GOTO READ_LOOP $EOF_RMTFLE: $ CLOSE RMTFLE $ EXIT  7 $ CREATE/DIRECT "user:pass@node.domain.tld::/path_spec"   9 $ DELETE "user:pass@node.domain.tld::/path_spec/filespec"    Does this help?    > > H > > Y'know, one thing I've never done is explore the DECnet-IV doc.'s in6 > > detail to see if FAL is actually fully documented. > D >    DECnet Phase IV is a fully documented publically available spec  ( Yes - I alluded to that in my statement.   > toH >    which anyone can write and several have, including DEC, KiResearch,$ >    CDC, Sun, and some Linux folks.  F ...and my suggestion to anyone capable and so inclined is to mimic the5 FAL functionality under TCP/IP, as illustrated above.   & Starting to get where I'm coming from?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:03:14 +1000 # From: "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate>  Subject: DS10L losing time- Message-ID: <42c30c96@duster.adelaide.on.net>    Hi All  L My DS10L can't seem to keep time properly - it gets being by about 1 minute K a day, so, after a couple of weeks, 15 minutes behind etc.  Is this a sign  M of something broken/about to break?  I don't remember the "old" h/w I worked   on being like this.    TIA    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:06:05 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: DS10L losing time+ Message-ID: <42C3619D.A51707CF@comcast.net>    Gremlin wrote: >  > Hi All > M > My DS10L can't seem to keep time properly - it gets being by about 1 minute L > a day, so, after a couple of weeks, 15 minutes behind etc.  Is this a signN > of something broken/about to break?  I don't remember the "old" h/w I worked > on being like this.   D Certain bits of software can run at a higher IPL (Interrupt PriorityA Level) than the hardware clock. This causes missed clock "ticks".   E Something to consider. This was an issue several versions of Multinet  ago.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 12:19:26 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com  Subject: Hobbyist Contest B Message-ID: <1120072766.042247.55820@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Dear Distribution lists,  B On www.openvms.org there is now a contest to find some of the mostF creative and unusual uses of the OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses.  Its right/ at the top in red or go directly to the contest * http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Cool  
 Warm Regards,    David Cathey and Sue Skonetski   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 18:08:37 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com  Subject: Hobbyist contest C Message-ID: <1120093717.589234.314950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   B On www.openvms.org there is now a contest to find some of the mostF creative and unusual uses of the OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses.  Its right/ at the top in red or go directly to the contest * http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Cool  
 Warm Regards,    David Cathey and Sue Skonetski   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 15:57:31 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com 6 Subject: Keystroke short cuts for TLViz version 1.604bC Message-ID: <1120085851.692869.176860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Dear Distrbution lists,   G The following updated T4 information is very valuable if you use T4 for E performance monitoring.  We have had T4 sessions at the boot camp and D the technical update days for the last several years.  Each year notF only does the tool improve but the folks interested and using the toolE increases.  Steve has given the ok for this message to be distributed  to everyone.  > We are now making TLViz available on an HP public web site at:8 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/t4/index.html   Warm Regards as always and < Thank you for allowing me to have the best job in the world. Sue      -----Original Message----- From: Lieman, Steve & Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:38 AM To: Skonetski, Susan Cc: McConnell, Pat6 Subject: Keystroke short cuts for TLViz version 1.604b     Hi Sue,   E Can you distribute this to your emailing lists for Ambassadors and to F any customers and partners and bootcamp attendees you think might find
 it useful?  G Any comments or requests for more information can be sent to T4@HP.COM.    	Best regards,	 		steve L    -----Original Message----- From: Lieman, Steve & Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:34 AM To: 't4@hp.com' 6 Subject: Keystroke short cuts for TLViz version 1.604b   Hello Friends of T4.  @ Ian Megarity has kindly provided a list of all the current TLVizE keystroke shortcuts available with version 1.604b.  These can come in A handy for those who like to minimize the number of required mouse G clicks and mouse movements and keep their hands on the keyboard as much  as possible.  E If you are not already using version 1.604b, I suggest you upgrade at G your convenience as it does provide some quite useful improvements over E earlier versions, especially in regard to dealing with T4-style files G where the headers and the data are potentially misaligned.  If you need  a copy, send mail to T4@hp.com  E Comments, suggestions, etc. are welcome and openly invited as always.    	Best regards,
 	Steve Lieman  	OpenVMS Performance Group    C Here is a current list of all TLViz shortcuts for version 1.604b :-    Control  	C ...	close file  	E ...	Export chart  	O ...	Open file 	P ...	Print chart 	S ...	Save data as  	X ...	Exit/End  	Z ...	Revert to previous List   Control PLUS Shift  	A ...	Set Moving Average Period 	D ...	Cycle Dual Charts 	K ...	Correlate$ 	L ...	PopupMenu ... Modify ItemList) 	R ...	Remove items NOT containing string  	S ...	Stack charts  	T ...	Toggle Moving Average 	U ...	Unstack charts $ 	Z ...	Remove items with zero values 	F10 ...	Edit Chart Properties! 	Insert ...	Remove Selected Items % 	Delete ...	Remove Items NOT selected      ALT  	A ...	Add new item  	O ...	Set Chart Footer  	M ...	Chart Multiple items  	S ...	Set Chart sub-title 	T ...	Set Chart title# 	W ...	Set primary chart line width    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:04:01 -0400 4 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca>G Subject: Note to the person at pool-70-110-191-53.phil.east.verizon.net 8 Message-ID: <2bKwe.3328$Ai.512798@news20.bellglobal.com>  J Whoever is at  pool-70-110-191-53.phil.east.verizon.net please run a virusI checker, you have the Mytob virus and you have my address in your address L book. So far you have sent me 23 copies of the virus, but it does nothing to VMS :)  I Someone is going to respond to this that I should just block your machine K from talking to mine, but I wanted you to know that you now have a backdoor + on your system that some hackers are using.   F Check out http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/w32mytobbv.html for details.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:12:16 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> K Subject: Re: Note to the person at pool-70-110-191-53.phil.east.verizon.net 1 Message-ID: <yemdneUw3-Kv4l7fRVn-qg@adelphia.com>    Peter Weaver wrote: L > Whoever is at  pool-70-110-191-53.phil.east.verizon.net please run a virusK > checker, you have the Mytob virus and you have my address in your address N > book. So far you have sent me 23 copies of the virus, but it does nothing to > VMS :)  H It may have also picked it up off of the internet, not just the address 2 book.  So the system owner may not be seeing this.  K > Someone is going to respond to this that I should just block your machine M > from talking to mine, but I wanted you to know that you now have a backdoor - > on your system that some hackers are using.   C They probably do not know what their IP address is.  It looks like  D Verizon just renumbered some DHCP pools to be in the 70.*.*.* range G based on the volume of spam that has recently shown up from there, and  D the DHCP blocking lists are just starting to catch up with the move.  	 Checking:   0 http://www.senderbase.org/search? [TWO PART URL]G searchBy=hostname&searchString=pool-70-110-191-53.phil.east.verizon.net   H Shows 43572 I.P. addresses in the verizon.net range seen sending e-mail.F Note the amount of "pool-" prefixed I.P. addresses which are DHCP end H users.  The last time I looked at the Verizon TOS, those addresses were C not permitted to run servers, and that class of user should not be  I sending enough mail to make it to the first page of a senderbase listing   in any case.  G A quick glance of the first few pages shows that about 80% of them are  F "pool-" and about 40% of the machines have high measurements for very G current activity.  As these are DHCP addresses, the number of infected  / machines could be less, and just moving around.   H Now senderbase does not indicate how it is seeing these addresses, so a F senderbase report may not actually mean that I.P. address is sending, G but usually a blocking list entry can be found to match any known DHCP  , addresses found with current daily activity.  G But senderbase may also be logging I.P. addresses that spammers put in   forged headers.   E If you are on a high speed cable or DSL connection and are sharing a  F network segment with infected computers, it does not take too many of E these zombie computers to significantly impare your speeds, or cause   network outages.  A When an ISP just warns the infected users instead of immediately  G blocking the system from sending mail on detection, all they are doing  H is hurting all of their other users that are sharing that segment until C the user acts, or the ISP finally takes action.  And usually if an  I infection has lasted long enough for the ISP to be notified, the user is  H not going to be paying attention until they find that they can not send  e-mail.   H > Check out http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/w32mytobbv.html for
 > details.  J http://www.moensted.dk/spam/?addr=pool-70-110-191-53.phil.east.verizon.net  9 Dynamic/Residential IP range listed by NJABL dynablock -   http://njabl.org/dynablock.html   2 http://cbl.abuseat.org/lookup.cgi?ip=70.110.191.53   Dynamic IP Addresses See: 5 http://www.dnsbl.sorbs.net/lookup.shtml?70.110.191.53   C + VIRBL virusinfected ip addresses: virbl.dnsbl.bit.nl -> 127.0.0.2 < 6 x Worm.Mytob.DK. Last seen 2005-06-30 00:28:02.07182 (CET)  E The most useful thing about these worms is that they are identifying  B address pools that no real e-mail will probably ever be seen from.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:03:10 +1200 6 From: Martin Hunt <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz>" Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising8 Message-ID: <22k6c1dvaj49l54j5pga706jiqo16f7f64@4ax.com>  1 On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:20:55 -0400, Brad Hamilton ) <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet> wrote:    >Martin Hunt wrote: + >> Running TCP/IP V5.4 ECO 1 on VMS V7.3-2.  ><snip> I >> Anyway, what I am trying to do is synchronise with a stratum 3 server. D >> Although I see the server, and its offset details, this server isH >> never chosen as a server to synchronise with. The following is output  >> from the "ntpq peer" command: >>  I >>      remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset 	 >> jitter Q >> ============================================================================== I >>  202.36.54.19    202.36.52.9      3 u   51   64  377    7.813  180758.  >> 7.813I >> *LOCAL(0)        LOCAL(0)         8 l   58   64  377    0.000    0.000  >> 7.813 >>  H >> Note that we are synchronising with ourselves as a fallback position,= >> but would prefer to synchronise with the stratum 3 server.  >> > I >Although I've never used a local fallback, what would happen if you got  H >rid of the local fallback (I'm wondering if you can't sync because the F >NTP daemon "settles" on the local fallback, and "refuses" to use the  >stratum-3 server)?   2 Tried that - it doesn't synchronise with anything.  E We also have a site on our WAN which runs TCPWare, rather than TCP/IP F services. It is reasonably happy to synchronise with the ntp server. I? say "reasonably" because that system is on a slower part of the B network, and shows up with a "#" in the peer display, meaning syncD distance exceeded. None of the other TCP/IP systems will synchronise with it.     ---  Martin Hunt  Systems Administrator  Fairfax New Zealand Limited 
 Wellington New Zealand    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:17:05 +1200 6 From: Martin Hunt <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz>" Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising8 Message-ID: <7uk6c1pf4nh1mfekqnv2ak5svtpbe1sr2u@4ax.com>  D On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:35:01 GMT, Joe Matuscak <matuscak@rohrer.com> wrote:  : >In article <fl44c1tke5fejh7nv9484431c1m4rpommo@4ax.com>, + >martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz says...  >   " >> The following is from ntptrace: >>  F >> 202.36.54.19: stratum 3, offset 181.292783, synch distance 10.24707E >> 202.36.52.9: stratum 2, offset 181.312063, synch distance 10.17047  >> 172.24.156.68:  *Timeout* >>  H >> I have previously been able to synchronise to clocks on the internet,0 >> but new security policies do not permit this. > F >Does the VMS NTP port have the ntpdate command?  Can it get the time? > ? >Does the "ntp.conf" equivalent have something that looks like:  >  >restrict default nomodify  E My ntp.conf file is much simpler than than. It just has a "driftfile" C line and a few servers are defined. There are no "restrict" lines.     > G >You can have the restrict switches to the point where the daemon wont  D >synch with anything other than localhost. Take a close look at the 3 >configuration file, it can be kind of convoluted.   > F >> Also, has anyone had any experience with stratum 1 servers, such asG >> ones which synchronise from GPS? I am tempted to look at that option  >> as an alternative.  > ' >I recently installed a End Run Unison:  > 6 >http://www.endruntechnologies.com/gps-time-server.htm > I >Very cool, easy to set up, not very expensive (about US $2500 IIRC) and  G >*way* accurate. They even have ones that synch off of CDMA cell phone  < >signals so you dont need to get a GPS antenna on the roof.   C I was looking at their web site yesterday. They look good, and CDMA A would be the way to go for us. But, I think I would have problems F getting my boss to pay $2500 for what amounts to a fancy clock. I will@ try, though. A cheaper version would be preferable if available.   ---  Martin Hunt  Systems Administrator  Fairfax New Zealand Limited 
 Wellington New Zealand    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:45:10 -0400 6 From: Brad Hamilton <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet>" Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising0 Message-ID: <UuCdncGSE40lwV7fRVn-1w@comcast.com>   Martin Hunt wrote:* > Running TCP/IP V5.4 ECO 1 on VMS V7.3-2. <snip>H > Anyway, what I am trying to do is synchronise with a stratum 3 server.C > Although I see the server, and its offset details, this server is G > never chosen as a server to synchronise with. The following is output  > from the "ntpq peer" command:  > H >      remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset > jitterP > ==============================================================================H >  202.36.54.19    202.36.52.9      3 u   51   64  377    7.813  180758. > 7.813 H > *LOCAL(0)        LOCAL(0)         8 l   58   64  377    0.000    0.000 > 7.813  >   I Now that I've had another look at the "offset" column, that number looks   awfully large to me.  A Unless I'm mistaken, if the time difference between "server" and  H "client" is more than an hour, NTP will refuse to synchronize.  Can you E get together with the owner of the stratum-3 server, and compare his  G system time with yours?  Also, check the NTP log on VMS; perhaps there  A is an error message which indicates that the offset is too large?    <snip> --   Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own" * "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:42:15 +1200 6 From: Martin Hunt <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz>" Subject: Re: ntp not synchronising8 Message-ID: <4vt6c11svqu8pkmtnvvvi7vclctobbnesr@4ax.com>  1 On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:45:10 -0400, Brad Hamilton ) <brMadAhaPmiSlton@coMmcAasPt.Snet> wrote:    >Martin Hunt wrote: + >> Running TCP/IP V5.4 ECO 1 on VMS V7.3-2.  ><snip> I >> Anyway, what I am trying to do is synchronise with a stratum 3 server. D >> Although I see the server, and its offset details, this server isH >> never chosen as a server to synchronise with. The following is output  >> from the "ntpq peer" command: >>  I >>      remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset 	 >> jitter Q >> ============================================================================== I >>  202.36.54.19    202.36.52.9      3 u   51   64  377    7.813  180758.  >> 7.813I >> *LOCAL(0)        LOCAL(0)         8 l   58   64  377    0.000    0.000  >> 7.813 >>   > J >Now that I've had another look at the "offset" column, that number looks  >awfully large to me.  > B >Unless I'm mistaken, if the time difference between "server" and I >"client" is more than an hour, NTP will refuse to synchronize.  Can you  F >get together with the owner of the stratum-3 server, and compare his H >system time with yours?  Also, check the NTP log on VMS; perhaps there B >is an error message which indicates that the offset is too large?  D ntpq displays offsets in milliseconds - so the difference is about 3 minutes.   >  ><snip>      ---  Martin Hunt  Systems Administrator  Fairfax New Zealand Limited 
 Wellington New Zealand    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:42:46 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program+ Message-ID: <42C35C26.C8F3E952@comcast.net>    Dave Froble wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > JF Mezei wrote:  > >  > >>David J Dachtera wrote:  > >>I > >>>An FTP site where your user name is your "DECUS" id as registered on M > >>>your PAKs and your password would be the checksum from your OpenVMS base K > >>>license (sans "-"'s), VAX, Alpha or I64. The account creation could be 8 > >>>automated, driven by the code that issues the PAKs. > >> > >>I support this 99.7362%  > >>F > >>There is the issue of which checksum/password to use when you have > >>multiple licensed systems. > >  > > J > > I was thinking about that after I posted. I should think the first PAKH > > issued each year would be the one activated. That would require someI > > planning and careful execution, but it should be entirely doable. DCL 8 > > works well with RMS indexed files, to a fair extent. > >  > > K > >>If the Montagar folks's database allow, perhaps it would email the user G > >>which system-id to use as password (instead of checksum). With a "I H > >>forgot my password" web page which will email the original owner the > >>login information. > >  > > 3 > > Naturally, some such provision would be needed.  > > D > > Alternately, if this were done through Encompass, one's existingE > > credentials might be enough. I'm just not sure that would provide L > > "global" coverage, the former DECUS being what it has become, or that itF > > could provide the tracking and accounting that HP would be sure to > > require. > >  > J > Why can't the system scan all licenses issued to the ID #, and if any of& > them match, it's Ok to provide data?  > Assuming that data is kept, it would also have to consider theE expiration dates of those PAKs to ensure proper controls. My original ; thought was to do this via the UAF's Expiration Date field.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:55:33 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobby Program+ Message-ID: <42C35F25.5B609E09@comcast.net>   
 "Doc." wrote:  > [snip]B > To be honest, I think there's too many people who don't know theI > difference between something that should head towards an SPR route, and H > what should go to this newsgroup such that opening up an official, but1 > for unsupported persons, channel wouldn't work.   D Depends. A lot of the "true content" here relates to issues, most ofF which are either not knowing what to do or how to do it, but sometimesG including genuine software problems. If this group was designated as an B official - albeit one-way - information channel, and someone in HPA designated as the "official" lurker, that one person (or group of @ persons?) could handle the filtering and the research as well to$ separate the "wheat from the chaff".   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:07:18 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) L Subject: Re: Porting and Portability of OpenVMS (was: Re: Revival of Alpha?)2 Message-ID: <qrBwe.7821$jn5.5162@news.cpqcorp.net>  C   The current OpenVMS Technical Journal (VTJ) has a write-up on the @   OpenVMS port to Intel Itanium.  <http://www.hp.com/go/openvms>  %   Do start there for some background.   C   As for why a port takes so long, the "bootstrap" -- as refered to F   in various discussions -- includes all the pieces needed to intiallyB   build, load and start up OpenVMS, such as the various compilers C   and linkers that can generate the executable code for the target  C   platform (native and/or cross-tools), and enough of OpenVMS built F   or cross-built to get the bootstrap code paths running, plus changesB   dictated by the system architecture and the console -- including6   memory management and addressing, I/O, drivers, etc.  D   The relative scale of the "tool chain" required is why it takes a :   while to get through to the bootstrap on a new platform.  D   We had a whole lot of OpenVMS I64 built or cross-built by the timeD   we had the kernel pieces and the bootstrap-related pieces debugged   and running.  B   Just figuring out what needed to be done involved a whole lot ofA   engineers -- I was one of a number working specifically on the  A   bootstrap environment.  Now if you'll excuse me, my debug build A   is finished; I have some work needed in some boot-related code.   B   FWIW, the port to Itanium was significantly easier than the port?   to Alpha -- less code was involved, and far less upheaval was @   required throughout the operating system source pool.  More ofA   the basic hardware assumptions were already built into OpenVMS  B   Alpha (and/or into the SRM console), and the core support pieces@   provided by SRM on Alpha were effectively brought into OpenVMS>   itself as part of the OpenVMS I64 port.  IMNSHO, one of the A   biggest new and core pieces was the software interrupt services =   (SWIS) support, now part of OpenVMS I64 itself -- this work @   expunges one of the biggest areas of hardware-specific OpenVMS<   assumptions, bringing it all into OpenVMS I64 in software.  '   VTJ has (far) more detail, of course.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:24:24 +0000 (UTC) 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>  Subject: Re: printf conversions ? Message-ID: <d9up0o$4a8$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>    Hi,   ? > > It is "%.*s" which will print exactly that many characters.  > 2 > Ooops.  Much better.  Thanks to all who replied.  I It's so bloody intuitive I don't know what you could've been thinking of!   I No doubt Hoff will have a hieroglyphics section in the next VMS Technical A Journal. After all that's what we're all doing with VMS isn't it?   G Yeah threads! Tell us more about them. I can't get enough of this crap!    Regards Richard Maher   8 "Chip Coldwell" <coldwell@gmail.nospam> wrote in message; news:Pine.LNX.4.61.0506290800190.26520@frank.harvard.edu... & > On Tue, 28 Jun 2005, JF Mezei wrote: >  > > Chip Coldwell wrote:$ > >>      printf("%4s\n", "foobar");' > >>      printf("%*s\n", 4, "foobar");  > > ? > > It is "%.*s" which will print exactly that many characters.  > 2 > Ooops.  Much better.  Thanks to all who replied. >  > Chip >  > --   > Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell > Turn on, log in, tune out  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:42:21 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam>  Subject: Re: printf conversions ( Message-ID: <wQCwe.289$394.125@fe07.lga>   JF Mezei wrote: ! >>     printf("%4s\n", "foobar"); $ >>     printf("%*s\n", 4, "foobar");  = > It is "%.*s" which will print exactly that many characters.   D %.4s will not print exactly 4 characters, it will print at _most_ 4  characters.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:48:17 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: printf conversions . Message-ID: <42C2D0D1.4813.14A7D783@localhost>  ( >     printf("%*.*s\n", 4, 4, "foobar");  A Sorry -- you need to specify the number twice.  Got this lots of   places in my C code, too...   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:47:21 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> & Subject: Re: Speaking of promoting VMS4 Message-ID: <42c33418$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- + >> From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]  >> Sent: June 28, 2005 9:35 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com% >> Subject: Speaking of promoting VMS  >> >>D >> Sybase sent a broadcast e-mail today, promoting the use of Linux. >> >>> >> HP does nothing other than produce VMS 'success' stories on >> glossy paper @ >> that nobody sees, or get posted on a web site that they don't >> drive traffic >> to. >>= >> HP does nothing other than preach to the existing customer  >> base to say that ; >> VMS is right for mission-critical computing, except when  >> Cerner or OM Group # >> drops a customer into their lap.  >> >> >> >> >> Sybase's e-mail below >> ----------------------  >>= >> Think open-source software can't cut it in the enterprise?  >>@ >> Still consider Linux short on availability, manageability and >> scalability?  >>5 >> Unsure about vendor support and user endorsements?  >>H >> Attend this Web seminar and hear how Sybase and IBM have teamed up to< >> deliver a complete end-to-end Linux-based data management >> solution that= >> meets demanding enterprise computing requirements for high  >> performance and >> low ownership cost. >> >> The Right Move & >> Mission-Critical Solutions on Linux >> >  > G > Mmm.. Yep, Linux for the enterprise .. It is certainly an option. For C > DB vendors who license by CPU (and core) lots of smaller boxes is A > great as it means extra revenue for them - especially if the DB E > clustering options are included since there is additional costs per  > cpu involved.  > H > Not sure how Sybase licenses its cluster option, but I suspect that it > will also be cpu based.  > H > However, one does need to consider the effort and resources to QA/TestG > the Vendor recommended monthly *security* patches in a similar matter C > as Windows. QA/test and patch roll-out groups will love the extra  > work.  > B > Course, how important is security in most enterprises these days > anyway eh? >  > Reference:8 > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/2 > [click on thread for each month and add them up] > E > Last I counted, there was approx 140+ since Jan of this year (2005) B > alone. June so far has 27. Then count all of the ones in 2004 .. > & > Gotta love the industry hype though.     Kerry,  H As Reagan said to Carter during the debates, "Well there you go again.".  K If HP continues to do *SQUAT* to visibly and actively advertise and promote K VMS then all the 'hype' any prospective customers (read as any organization J that currently does not use VMS) will hear is that of Windows or Linux and* enterprise computing in the same sentence.     --H OpenVMS - The operating system with an installed base stalled at 411,000 systems for the past 12 years.      O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:48:38 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> & Subject: RE: Speaking of promoting VMSR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650F70@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  > Sent: June 29, 2005 7:47 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( > Subject: Re: Speaking of promoting VMS >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- - > >> From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]   > >> Sent: June 28, 2005 9:35 PM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com' > >> Subject: Speaking of promoting VMS  > >> > >>F > >> Sybase sent a broadcast e-mail today, promoting the use of Linux. > >> > >>@ > >> HP does nothing other than produce VMS 'success' stories on > >> glossy paper B > >> that nobody sees, or get posted on a web site that they don't > >> drive traffic > >> to. > >>? > >> HP does nothing other than preach to the existing customer  > >> base to say that = > >> VMS is right for mission-critical computing, except when  > >> Cerner or OM Group % > >> drops a customer into their lap.  > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Sybase's e-mail below > >> ----------------------  > >>? > >> Think open-source software can't cut it in the enterprise?  > >>B > >> Still consider Linux short on availability, manageability and > >> scalability?  > >>7 > >> Unsure about vendor support and user endorsements?  > >>@ > >> Attend this Web seminar and hear how Sybase and IBM have=20 > teamed up to> > >> deliver a complete end-to-end Linux-based data management > >> solution that? > >> meets demanding enterprise computing requirements for high  > >> performance and > >> low ownership cost. > >> > >> The Right Move ( > >> Mission-Critical Solutions on Linux > >> > >  > > @ > > Mmm.. Yep, Linux for the enterprise .. It is certainly an=20
 > option. For E > > DB vendors who license by CPU (and core) lots of smaller boxes is C > > great as it means extra revenue for them - especially if the DB G > > clustering options are included since there is additional costs per  > > cpu involved.  > > = > > Not sure how Sybase licenses its cluster option, but I=20  > suspect that it  > > will also be cpu based.  > > B > > However, one does need to consider the effort and resources=20 > to QA/Test= > > the Vendor recommended monthly *security* patches in a=20  > similar matterE > > as Windows. QA/test and patch roll-out groups will love the extra 	 > > work.  > > D > > Course, how important is security in most enterprises these days > > anyway eh? > >  > > Reference:: > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/4 > > [click on thread for each month and add them up] > > G > > Last I counted, there was approx 140+ since Jan of this year (2005) D > > alone. June so far has 27. Then count all of the ones in 2004 .. > > ( > > Gotta love the industry hype though. >=20 >=20 > Kerry, >=20A > As Reagan said to Carter during the debates, "Well there you=20 
 > go again.".  >=20    E Mmmm.. Now why does the thought "pot calling the kettle black come to  mind?"   :-)   E John - senior mgmt in HP pays next to zero attention to newsgroups .. H While there is certainly some good idea's that do filter out and up, theF noise level is just way to high for them to pay any attention to them.B Imagine trying to keep up with OpenVMS, NSK, HP-UX, Linux, WindowsB newsgroups and every one of them playing the arm chair quarterback	 position.   ? Now that is not to say they do not listen to Customers or field G employees - they host numerous Cust events around the globe in the form G of Executive Councils, TAF's, Account Consulting sessions, free on site @ migration workshops, Customer / ISV visits etc. In addition, BCSB supports and funds the Cust Bootcamp and twice per year AmbassadorD meetings in Nashua where they get first hand feedback from up to 200F Ambassadors from around the globe (and believe me, Ambassadors are notG shy about voicing their opinions to who ever from mgmt is in the room).   D I am not saying that marketing could not be improved, but in general? (with some exceptions), the brand marketing strategy vs product G marketing strategy is a much higher corp strategy than OpenVMS (and BCS  for that matter).=20  H Perhaps it will change. I certainly do not know if it will or not. There@ are certainly proponents on both sides in the corp hierarchy.=20  F However, I know you are a great supporter of OpenVMS who is frustratedF with the current marketing, but the constant negativity in the OpenVMSG newsgroup is not going to change a general corp marketing strategy that  is way above OpenVMS.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:35:04 +0200 " From: Didier MORANDI <no@spam.com>8 Subject: These Inquirer Folks are really well documented% Message-ID: <42C2E9D8.90709@spam.com>   * http://www.theinquirer.net//?article=12534 :-)    D. --  4   Didier MORANDI - VMS Expert and SAP CRM Consultant4 13 chemin du Gu - 1213 Petit-Lancy (GE) Switzerland2      Phone: +336 7983 6418 - www.didiermorandi.com   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 2005 18:39:26 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality+ Message-ID: <3ig86tFl9nheU1@individual.net>   A In article <42c2d134$0$1124$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>, 3 	Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes:  > I > I was quoted the exact number of "OpenVMS Systems" working "currently"  I > in the Pentagon by a "person who must know" earlier this year. Since I  H > don't remember now the exact number, I'll only say for certain it was I > certainly more than 300, and possibly much more. I say "more than 300"  K > because I wish to be absolutely boolean truthful and not invent a number  @ > from a potentially faulty memory. I should have wrote it down. > * > Please note the following links as well. > 8 > After 9/11 Pentagon looking for 70+ VAX 7800s - GoogleF > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3ba238eb%241_3%40news.iglou.com   September 2001  F > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/bf2d0febf2c417eb   September 2001  H > There is one caveat concerning the Lockhead-Martin jobs at Dice which H > may apply. Lockheed-Martin has also has projects concerning a Vehicle H > Management System for Jet Fighters and a Vessel Management System for  > Ships. > 4 > Lockheed Martin F-22 - Vehicle Management System -4 > TRW Communications/Navigation/Identification (CNI)% > look under heading "Avionics Racks" K > http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-22-avionics.htm  > G > Lockheed Martin announces support for U.S. National Marine Fisheries  ( > Service Vessel Monitoring System (VMS)Z > http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=12179&rsbci=0&fti=0&ti=0&sc=400 >   L We'll just ignore these as well as a certain system for serviceing cows. :-)   > I > That being said, there exists collateral showing Lockheed Martin, it's  I > subcontractors, and various military and industrial organisations make  I > use of OpenVMS in many (on-going) products and projects. Here's hoping  K > the following references will help you make your (OpenVMS) case when the   > occasion arises. > > > Lockheed Space Systems Company - Strategic Missile Program -1 > Salem Automation CHARON-Vax Success Story - PDF Y > http://www.winvms.com/images/Lockheed%20Martin%20Cape%20Canaveral%20Success%20Story.pdf    October 2003   > K > Pratt & Whitney - F119 Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) for  K > the Lockheed Martin F/22A Raptor (formerly the Advanced Tactical Fighter) % > http://www.adaic.org/atwork/pw.html   C No date for this one, however it should be noted it's about Ada and C the stresses the fact that Pratt & Whitney are staying with Ada. HP D already announced that they are not continuing their Ada product, so# where does that leave this account?    >  > + > *OpenVMS in the U.S. Military Collateral*  > B > Northrop Grumman Information Technology - J-STARS with OpenVMS -. > The COTS Revolution (see caption on page 66)- > http://www.armada.ch/02-5/complete_02-5.pdf    May 2002   > E > J-STARS - Customer Brief - U.S. Air Force surveillance equipment -   > Wayback Machine Y > http://web.archive.org/web/20030424152602/http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/news/jstar.html   F I couldn't get this one, but based onthe URL I place it at April 2003.   > 8 > J-STARS - newspaper article in New Hampshire Telegraph# > http://www.genetek.com/JSTARS.htm    August 2001    > H > OpenVMS Lives On In The Not-So-Friendly Skies (Compaq to supply OS on ? > machines for Air Force) - InformationWeek - HighBeam Research q > http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?DOCID=1G1:77138738&num=114&ctrlInfo=Round5a%3AMode5a%3ASR%3AResult&ao=    August 2001    > ! > Raytheon - Hardened Computers - D > ECOTS Products (Extended Environment Commercial- Off- The- Shelf)$ > http://www.raytheon-computers.com/  H This is an ad for custom hardware from Raytheon some of which uses Alpha but says nothing about VMS.    > I > HP VMS Ambassador working at a customer site (Joint Forces Command) in   > Suffolk, VA. - Google F > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/db7871fbc3d2e157  C Dec 2003.  Not sure those machines belong to the government as they E are not usually allowed to "sell" old equipment in order to buy newer C equipment.  I suspect they belong to the contractor and there is no C guarantee that they are being used to develop VMS software for JFC.    > 7 > U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs - VistA Monograph % > http://www1.va.gov/vista_monograph/   C No mention of VMS in this at all and if there was it would probably & be refering to VISTA Monograph System.   > H > U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs - (OpenVMS Clusters) - HP Awarded   > $784 Million Services ContractW > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=857e9e41.0403240626.4017bc3%40posting.google.com   
 March 2004@ OK, we found on just over a year old.  But we were talking DOD IB thought and the it would take a real stretch of the imagination to equate the VA with DOD.  :-)   > E > InformationWeek > Business Services > VA Hospitals Sign HP To $784  * > Million IT-Support Deal > March 24, 2004K > http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=18401553   * Same event and story as above.  No points.   > " > Big Federal Contract for HP - VA; > http://www.line56.com/articles/default.asp?ArticleID=5489   * Same event and story as above.  No points.   > ' > U.S. Navy - Moving-Map Composer (MMC) 2 > http://www7440.nrlssc.navy.mil/client-server.htm   October 2000   > ) > U.S. Coast Guard - Marine Safety Center 3 > http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/nmc/pubs/msm/v4/c2.htm   D This is some ancient Coast Guard document that talks about something
 done in 1986. B "transfered to the MicroVax system which uses the Fortran language  and the Vax/VMS"   9 Even if it still existed, this is what you call legacy!!!   / I mean (VAX/FORTRAN/PLOT 10).  Can we get real?    > ; > Super Hornet - AN/ALQ-165 (ASPJ) was programmed using VMS $ > http://www.sci.fi/~fta/aviat-5.htm  
 May&June 2001    > 6 > U.S. Army - BBS and CBS Battle Simulations - MS WordA > http://www.strategypage.com/prowg/simulationshandbook/chp_7.doc   
 December 1998 % This one is about VS3100 and VMS 6.1.    >  > U.S. Army - UCCATS - MS WordA > http://www.strategypage.com/prowg/simulationshandbook/chp_8.doc   < THis is the a different chapter from the same book as above.   > I > U.S. Air Force - Air Mobility Command - Agencies worry about future of  & > DEC's OpenVMS - GCN February 9, 19989 > http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/February9/cov4.htm    February 1998.) Somehow, I doubt they are still worrying.    > A > U.S. Air Force - TACCSF (Theater Aerospace Command and Control  E > Simulation Facility) - VSTARS (Virtual Surveillance, Targeting and   > Attack Radar System). > http://www.gcn.com/vol20_no4/dod/3679-1.html  
 February 2001    > ) > Predator UAV use OpenVMS in Telemetry - 9 > Could a PC do this - Don't think so - Google Groups COV F > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/79acacc3663dd581  ? Seems current, but I fail to see the connection to DOD.  In any > event it looks more like a migration away from VMS in favor of< a PC and the comments of someone who has already made such a= migration telling him what to look out for.  I can assure you ? there are no Alphas runing VMS mounted in HUMVEES to handle the , telemetry from the UAV's in actual use.  :-)   >  >  > * > *OpenVMS in other Militaries Collateral*  A Not sure this is worth it as I seem to get the idea from posts in B c.o.v that Europe is still much more enamored with VMS then anyone, in the US, but here's a few comments anyway.   > 1 > Eurofighter - avionics written in Digital's ADA < > http://www.tni-europe.com/tnie/casestudies/eurofighter.htm  D Nice project.  No date given but theolane went into service in 2001.E Again, however, this is an Ada project and specifically mentions VAX. 5 Probably not current.  No evidence it's still on VMS.    > 6 > Eurocontrol Euro-Airspace Air Traffic Management and7 > Eurofighter Typhoon, Nimrod & Hawk - CP HOOD Examples 7 > http://www.tni-world.com/flashmx/cp_hood_examples.asp   0 This is the same article, just a different page.   >  > Tigre Helicopter -J > anti-tank and protection missions management software written on OpenVMS, > http://www.tni-world.com/flashmx/tiger.asp  3 Same place.  Different song.  While one line says:  1        "Platforms: VAX/VMS and UNIX (HP and SUN)"  The article actually says:J        "The development tool used in the project was Rational APEX on SUN"  D It looks like another Ada project.  Same comments as above, I guess.    >  > I > Although many of the links show implementations in projects started in  K > the 90's, the tendency to use existing code bases would be great for the   > recent follow-on projects.    E What would possibly make you draw that conclusion?  Everyday we watch C companies change the systems they choose to support.  Why woudl you E think any of these (beyond the VA) are still running those VS3100 and  VMS 6.1?  D >                            It is also not to be expected that the I > implementation details of currently forming projects to be made public  D > knowledge. So the question of recent implementations is sort of a 
 > "Catch-22".   F No, actually it is as I expected.  There is no evidence that HP hasn'tF let yet another opportunity wither on the vine.  You want to show thatI DOD is still big on VMS?  Show me the announced RFP's in the CBD.  Unlike K what Didier said about France, our procurements are, by law, public. (well, ! except for a few black projects.)    >  > - > http://www.rajaniemi.com/data/diduknow.html   @    "This holiday season, if you received a catalogue in the U.S.C     mail, it got to your door through the powers of OpenVMS. That's C     because the route of every mail carrier in the United States is ,     managed/generated by an OpenVMS system."  B Even this is doubtful.  I once interviewed with the contractor whoD does the computing for the USPS (I used to do this periodically justE to garner information to pass on to our students about current trends E int he industry).  That was over 10 years ago.  They were looking for D VMS and Unix experience.  Current ads I have seen no longer list VMS! skills as needed or even desired.   @    "If you're the pilot of an F-22 Stealth Fighter, an astronautF     flying the Space Shuttle, or a pilot of the new proto Eurofighter,      you're flying with OpenVMS."  F This is just plain mis-leading.  There is no VMS on any of them.  JustH because some phase somewhere along the line used it (maybe) doesn't mean your flying with it.    D      "If you ship material through the port of New York or containerE       cargo through the port of Rotterdam, you're a user of OpenVMS."   D This is possible, but really pretty meaningless as the same task wasC handled just fine with pencils and paper for several centuries. :-) I I am sure there are considerably more Windoze boxes in both these places.     C     "If you're using the underground in London, the electric lights <      lighting your way are controlled by an OpenVMS system."  A Now that's impressive.  The worlds most complicated and expensive  light switch.  :-)  E     "If you ride a train in Germany, France, Italy, or Poland you are       a user of OpenVMS."  E Also interesting, but a claim by COMPAQ is not likely to convince me. @ COMPAQ doesn't even exist making this just another old web page.  I     "If you explore the mysteries of the universe from pictures generated H      by the Hubble Space Telescope - one of the most popular pastimes on*      the Web - you are a user of OpenVMS."  J I would love to see the justification for this claim.  I know JPL used VMSG in the past, but is there any evidence that it is still the case today? E There is much better graphics handling hardware than anything that is  supported under VMS today.    
   "Visste du? <       Om du anvnder verktyg fr bearbetning av metall kpt =       frn vrldens ledande tillverkare av hrdmetallverktyg, :       AB Sandvik Coromant, s r du en OpenVMS anvndare."  E We have Sandvik facilities locally.  I have never seen them advertise = for anyone with VMS skills.  Windows and Unix, but never VMS.   G Of course, the fact that this is a COMPAQ web page says something about G it's age.  Come on people.  Stop living int he past.  We need something G current to show that VMS is alive and well. No one is going to buy that H because somebody used it 10 years ago we can assume they still do today.7 In this industry, quite the contrary would be the norm.    D I am still waiting for somethign concrete and believable that points to DOD's interest in VMS.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:18:39 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> , Subject: RE: US military and confidentialityR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650F35@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20  > Sent: June 29, 2005 1:14 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality >=20C > I find it interesting that there would even be such a discussion.  >=20H > When Microsoft makes a sale to the military, you can bet your ass thatH > Microsoft will be bragging about it. They may not give many details onE > exactly what those systems will do, but they will brag about it big * > time. Same with other operating systems. >=20H > But when the owner of VMS makes a sale to the military, the owner usesH > the excuse "sorry, it is confidential, we can't talk about it" and VMS > never gets marketed. >=20   JF -=20   " Think about what you just said.=20  H If I am a Customer concerned about high security, there is no way in anyE way shape or manner that I am going to publicly acknowledge what I am C running as the base for whatever application environment I have.=20   C If the vendor publicly went against my secrecy directive, then they  would be out on their ear.  H That is not specific to OpenVMS - that is just a security best practice.  . And that goes for any Customer - not just DOD.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 2005 20:32:28 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality+ Message-ID: <3igeqsFlc4soU1@individual.net>   R In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650F35@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,* 	"Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >  >> -----Original Message----- : >> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20 >> Sent: June 29, 2005 1:14 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ >> Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality  >>=20 D >> I find it interesting that there would even be such a discussion. >>=20 I >> When Microsoft makes a sale to the military, you can bet your ass that I >> Microsoft will be bragging about it. They may not give many details on F >> exactly what those systems will do, but they will brag about it big+ >> time. Same with other operating systems.  >>=20 I >> But when the owner of VMS makes a sale to the military, the owner uses I >> the excuse "sorry, it is confidential, we can't talk about it" and VMS  >> never gets marketed.  >>=20  > 	 > JF -=20  > $ > Think about what you just said.=20 > J > If I am a Customer concerned about high security, there is no way in anyG > way shape or manner that I am going to publicly acknowledge what I am E > running as the base for whatever application environment I have.=20  > E > If the vendor publicly went against my secrecy directive, then they  > would be out on their ear. > J > That is not specific to OpenVMS - that is just a security best practice. > 0 > And that goes for any Customer - not just DOD.   Kerry,   You missed the point. E We see things about WIndows being used my DOD all the time, even when E it's embarassing (like the ship dead int he water) but whenever it is F VMS all we hear is "I'ld tell you, but then I would have to kill you."F Why can Microsoft tell when the government uses their products and VSME can't?  The answer (at least as I am sure most people here see it) is G that they could, but they choose not to.  there is no pressure from the J government.  As I said in another message. Except for a few black projectsD all government procurements in this country are public.  So how comeB we never hear about VMS being the winner?  Unless, they never are.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:31:45 -0400 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality, Message-ID: <42C3051F.9F509EE1@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:J > If I am a Customer concerned about high security, there is no way in anyG > way shape or manner that I am going to publicly acknowledge what I am B > running as the base for whatever application environment I have.  F This loses credibility when the same customer allows all other vendorsD to announce a sale to them, but when it is for VMS, the vendor neverG bothers asking permsission to the customer, assuming the response would  be "NO".  H And consider that for those military departments who really rely on VMS,G it is now to their advantage to get HP to market those sales and market F VMS since not doing so jeoperdizes the long term viability of VMS, theF availability fo software and more importantly, experienced VMS people.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 16:09:52 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality3 Message-ID: <qWygJCthwpM3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   t In article <42c2d134$0$1124$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>, Keith Cayemberg <keith.cayemberg@arcor.de> writes:  ! > Raytheon - Hardened Computers - D > ECOTS Products (Extended Environment Commercial- Off- The- Shelf)$ > http://www.raytheon-computers.com/      "Tru64 UNIX"    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:09:37 -0700 * From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>, Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality2 Message-ID: <fLCdnZcNRsCvt17fRVn-ow@mpowercom.net>  3 "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote in message  L news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB650F35@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... > J > If I am a Customer concerned about high security, there is no way in anyG > way shape or manner that I am going to publicly acknowledge what I am B > running as the base for whatever application environment I have. > I Except employees have to be recruited to maintain any facility, even the  K secret ones.  How can you hire anyone if you can't list the skills needed?  I The location can be left out, but if there really were a significant VMS  F military presence then there would be contractors advertising for VMS  admins/programmers.   I There are recruiters that specialize in this kind of customer (hmmm, Top  L Echelon? something like that, usually requires an active clearance to apply : for a job).  If there are VMS ads they are well-concealed.   Jack Peacock     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:55:59 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality4 Message-ID: <42c3361e$1_1@spool9-west.superfeed.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:   > H > If Lockheed wants to run their VMS machines with contractors it may beD > they don't list the openings on their own site.  Lots of companies > will. > only hire contractors through third parties.    L This is quite true for many companies and governments. There is a 'vendor ofJ record' such as EDS or Andersen or Cap Gemini or others and then there areL the people with special skills like those of us with VMS backgrounds who are* hired by the vendor of record on contract.  K Sometimes you just don't get in the door at these places unless you ride on & the coattails of the vendor of record.  I And then you have to watch out for the gambit of "The customer is cutting I their daily rate and you'll have to take less" from the vendor of record. J Then you check with the customer's point person who liases with the vendorL of record only to find out that the vendor of record is either not receivingL less from the customer or is in fact raising their rates to the customer forK your services. I have found this to be *very* common practice among vendors 
 of record.   --; OpenVMS - 411,000 installed systems and holding since 1993.       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 22:06:46 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: US military and confidentiality3 Message-ID: <lz9dSnkRMaod@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <fLCdnZcNRsCvt17fRVn-ow@mpowercom.net>, "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> writes:   K > Except employees have to be recruited to maintain any facility, even the  M > secret ones.  How can you hire anyone if you can't list the skills needed?  K > The location can be left out, but if there really were a significant VMS  H > military presence then there would be contractors advertising for VMS  > admins/programmers.    And there are, all the time.  < > for a job).  If there are VMS ads they are well-concealed.  D Not if you look at Dice.com.  Sometimes it seems that 1/3 of the VMS* postings are military and 1/3 are banking.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 14:06:48 -0700. From: "Dan  Williams" <williams.dan@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Vax emulator B Message-ID: <1120079208.514282.29050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   > H > Only limitation with Windows is that it seems to be unable to use a CDH > image, so you need to burn VMS to a physical CDROM, and then use that. > A I have had no problems with cd images under windows, I have in my 	 vax.ini :   
 set rq1 cdrom  attach -r rq1 filename  C Seems to work find under XP. When I installed on a new machine last " time, I mounted all 12 of the spl.   Dan    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:03:09 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Vax emulator + Message-ID: <42C360EC.E4A6919D@comcast.net>    "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > 2 > On 28 Jun 2005 at 21:26, David J Dachtera wrote: > > Caligula wrote: B > > > I am aware of Charon, however it appears to be windows only. > > A > > Charon-VAX is available for OpenVMS and, I believe, some UN*X 
 > > variants.  > > 4 > > ...or contact Stan Quayle: http://www.stanq.com/ > F > [Thanks for the mention.]  At the moment, CHARON-VAX is available on9 > Windows, Alpha/VMS, and as an embedded custom solution.   ; Can you tell us more about this "embedded custom solution"?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jun 05 14:59:40 EDT) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download! Message-ID: <oRTeH6WwFAYz@wvnvms>   [ In article <kIrwe.11209$U4.1430116@news.xtra.co.nz>, "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com> writes: 8 > "George Cook" <cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> wrote in message > news:OnhtCM1f3JW0@wvnvms...  > 4 >> In the case of the pyramids, what would happen toH >> the "absolute" property rights of the owners of all the tourist trapsB >> around the pyramids if the pyramids were torn down and the land >> converted into a trash dump?  > @ > Easy, they would still have their property. How much the valueI > of the property was impacted is a different question but it would still  > be theirs. >   F Their "absolute" property rights would have been impacted.  "Absolute"H property rights include the rights to the current value of the property.I Anything which impacts that value (without their approval) is a violation $ of their "absolute" property rights.  B My point, of course, being that the concept of "absolute" property rights is absurd.   D Putting aside "absolute" property rights, consider "normal" property> rights.  Does the pyramid owner have the right to install loud@ sirens on the pyramids which make the environment in the tourist@ trap area unbearable?  Do the tourist trap owners have the rightG to start large fires which permanently blacken the pyramids with smoke? ? Of course, many thousands of laws and court decisions cover all A these types of issues, but someone's property rights usually come D out ahead of someone else's (perfect outcomes/compromises are rare).  ? There will always be property right conflicts between owners of A property which is one of the main reasons we have governments and C "warped" courts.  To revisit Penn Station, the NY government/courts F had the right to decide (but failed to do so) that the property rightsC of all the other property owners in NY were more important than the @ property rights of one individual.  Of course governments/courtsD should have some limits to their power, which is why the recent U.S.@ Supreme Court decision is so wrong.  The decision basically says> that anything goes as far as governments ignoring individuals' property rights.     George Cook  WVNET    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 16:37:26 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for downloadC Message-ID: <1120088246.068531.141900@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:E > In article <1120012439.663678.236660@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, ) > 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > >  > >  > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:H > >> In article <1119911179.790552.101040@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,, > >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > >> > > >> > > >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: J > >> >> In article <1119895919.982108.17200@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,/ > >> >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: 	 > >> >> > 	 > >> >> >   > >> >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:N > >> >> >> In article <1119887254.046020.321350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,2 > >> >> >> 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > >> >> >> >P > >> >> >> > Then why couldn't the owner of Grand Central Terminal tear it down?
 > >> >> >>1 > >> >> >> Because we have a warped court system. 	 > >> >> > J > >> >> > I beg to differ in this case! GCT is a magnificent building thatO > >> >> > deserves to be protected. Not as good as Penn Station was, but still,  > >> >> > pretty good. > >> >> N > >> >> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I have no artistic sense at allL > >> >> and see most things that others consider "great art" as just so muchL > >> >> junk. (Like the recent fiasco in Central Park)  That being the case,K > >> >> I see no reason to limit ownership rights because of someone else's N > >> >> artistic sense.  If you think it should be preserved, buy it yourself.P > >> >> At what ever price the owner asks.  If you think it is worth it you willO > >> >> raise the money but if not, what right do you have to tell me I have to H > >> >> incur the monetary loss in order to please your aesthetic sense? > >> >G > >> > Well, I don't know the details of the GCT. Maybe the owners were K > >> > compensated. I don't know. But I'm glad it's still there. We're just G > >> > going to differ on this one. Also, the train station has a great N > >> > economic value for getting commuters to and from NYC. So, it's not justN > >> > artisitic in value. Also, many, many advertisements contain pictures orG > >> > footage using GCT as a backdrop, giving more benefits. It's also L > >> > valuable as a tourist atraction, bringing yet more money to the city.! > >> > It's more than just "art".  > >>H > >> None of which is relevant to the owner.  If someone wants it put toL > >> a diferent purpose than the owner then they should buy it at the ownersL > >> asking price (or whatever price the two parties can negotiate) and thenM > >> whne they own it, do what they want with it.  Recent history (especially M > >> as covered by a number of recent news programs) would seem to imply that J > >> he was not likely to be compensated.  Governments are running rampant1 > >> with the "right of emminent domain" of late.  > > $ > > I'm all for proper compensation. > >  > >> > >> >N > >> > In one sense it's just a zoning decision, but admittedly a very focused > >> > one.  > >>K > >> And one that takes from one person for the gain of another.  Punishing I > >> one man for his accomplishments while rewarding another for nothing.  > > 6 > > Destroying a public landmark is an accomplishment? > F > No, having the wherewithall to be able to afford to own the buildingF > was the accomplishment.  Even if he bought it when it was only worthG > $5.00.  In that case it was a good investment and that's a major part " > of being successful at business.  @ Such wherewithall includes a lot of luck. The RR's were powerfulE because they were the only way to get around. There weren't that many  to choose from.    > J > >                                                     If you build a GCTI > > in your own place, away from the public, and do not admit the public, H > > fine. Destroy it later if you like. But GCT was much more than that. > E > It was a piece of property.  If the owner wants to destroy it, it's D > his and he should be allowed to do whatever he wants with it.  AllE > the preservationists have to do is offer him enough compensation so D > that it is in his best interests to sell it to them rather than toC > tear it down.  If he wants more than they are willing to pay what F > does that tell you?  Maybe they don't value it as much as you think.  - What if he doesn't want to sell at any price?    >  > > @ > > Face it, we're going to disagree on this one no matter what. > > 	 > > [...]  > >> >> P > >> >> Again, I ask why?  If Steven King wanted to take the original manuscriptL > >> >> for "It" or "Carrie" or any other of his many successes (mind you, IN > >> >> only ever liked one of his stories and tend not to bother reading mostO > >> >> of what he writes) and burn it in his fireplace so that no one ever saw N > >> >> it, is that not his right?  What will become of VMS at the end of it's > >> > > >> >K > >> > I have no problem with that. No essential information is lost. But I H > >> > don't think he should be allowed to burn all copies of his books. > >>K > >> Why?  It's his book.  No one has any rights to his IP unless he grants 
 > >> them. > > J > > I said he shouldn't be able to burn all copies of his books. Suppose II > > have a copy of his book which I legally purchased. You're saying that @ > > Stephen King has the right to burn my copy of his book? Huh? > G > I never suggeswted he had the right to destroy your property.  I said G > he had the right to destroy the original manuscript before publishing F > so that no one ever saw it.  It was his IP and no one has any rights > to it beyond what he grants.  G Well, you did, but you didn't mean to. It's right up there ^^^^. I said G he shouldn't be able to burn all copies of his books and you said "Why,  It's his book?"    OK.    >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:20:47 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Mail agent 2 Message-ID: <3EBwe.7824$jn5.4218@news.cpqcorp.net>  l In article <e83e5d60.0506281227.34456a7e@posting.google.com>, contracer11@gmail.com (Shiva MahaDeva) writes:M :Im looking for a VAX/VMS e-mail agent, to send e-mails from VMS to Outlook  : :express, like mailx in Solaris. Is there any free agent ?  B   AFAIK, Microsoft Outlook Express is an SMTP mail client, and notE   a mail server.  You can configure a client such as Outlook Express  B   or Mozilla Thunderbird or otherwise to use most any SMTP Server,F   including the POP and IMAP SMTP Servers available in TCP/IP ServicesD   on OpenVMS VAX (formerly VAX/VMS), OpenVMS Alpha, and OpenVMS I64,=   and available in various third-party IP stacks for OpenVMS.   ?   As for mail clients on OpenVMS, you can use the MAIL utility. F   OpenVMS V6.2 and later and its contemporary TCP/IP Services (or mostG   any third-party IP stack) permit you to specify an SMTP email address D   directly at the To: or CC: prompt of MAIL, or (if you quote it) at   the DCL MAIL command.   1     $ MAIL/SUBJECT="Hello" filename "user@domain"     
     $ MAIL     MAIL> SEND     To: user@domain      Subject: ...     ...   @   The MIME tool allows you to send MIME-encoded messages via the    OpenVMS MAIL utility, as well.  A   You can also use the Mozilla mail client available for OpenVMS, >   and this allows you to send mail via a local SMTP server on A   the OpenVMS box, or via a remote SMTP server running elsewhere.   @   There are also pine and other clients around for OpenVMS, too.:   Various of these are available via the OpenVMS Freeware.  @   There may well be a mailx port around somewhere for OpenVMS, I@   don't immediately recall.  (If somebody has a current port, doC   pass it along and I'll add it to the next Freeware distribution.)   ?   If you have not already seen it, the OpenVMS User's Guide has A   some details on using OpenVMS -- including using the MAIL tool. B   Also of potential interest here will be the pointers to various C   software tools, resources and archives listed in the OpenVMS FAQ.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:57:59 +0200 " From: Didier MORANDI <no@spam.com>" Subject: VMS Beginners FAQ on line' Message-ID: <42C2E127.9000606@spam.com>    Did you know that one?  8 http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/www/vms_beginners_faq.html  < That could be another subject for the VMS Technical Journal? What do you think, Sue?  I volunteer to write it. :-)    D.K WiFiying from Amsterdam Shipol airport, waiting for his plane back to Nice. B Plenty of Customers during that i64 migration workshop in Utrecht.E One of them asked for a "private" box for the "hands-in" session, so  H that he can reboot it many times without problems, to test his 25 years  customized systartup_vms.com...    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 16:33:01 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>G Subject: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority C Message-ID: <1120087981.900047.325720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Hello,  B WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andG various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when F you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.' The state is determined by the function        f$getjpi("","STATE")  F The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are reported as COM.  F Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at which it is run?  3 (Tested on VMS v6.1 and v6.2, both on VAX systems.)   / (On some systems it may be called WORKSET.COM.)    Thanks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:40:24 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 0 Message-ID: <BEE89B98.10585%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 6/29/05 4:33 PM, in article< 1120087981.900047.325720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:    >  > Hello, > D > WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andI > various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when H > you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.) > The state is determined by the function  >  >     f$getjpi("","STATE") > H > The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are > reported as COM. > H > Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at > which it is run? > 5 > (Tested on VMS v6.1 and v6.2, both on VAX systems.)  > 1 > (On some systems it may be called WORKSET.COM.)  > 	 > Thanks.  > K This is because you arte at a high priority and when ever you are executing K the function f$getjpi, you will always be at the CUR or current state, that F is the one process on the system that has the CPU above all others, soB anyone else that wants the CPU at that time will show up as COM orE computable. You are preempting all lower processes that want the CPU.    Jeff   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:46:17 GMT + From: Jeff Chimene <jchimene@earthlink.net> K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority C Message-ID: <J9Iwe.11029$jX6.4012@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>   
 AEF wrote: > Hello, > D > WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andI > various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when H > you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.) > The state is determined by the function  >  >     f$getjpi("","STATE") > H > The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are > reported as COM. > H > Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at > which it is run?  F Because your process running working_set.com is using all the CPU? All6 other processes are forced to non-CUR states, e.g. COM  : For extra credit, code up a real-time CPU-burner that alsoH allocates/frees a few mebibytes of VM. Fire off a few of those and watch with working_set.com   Cheers,  jec    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 19:34:08 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority C Message-ID: <1120098848.856048.170530@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Jeff Cameron wrote:   > On 6/29/05 4:33 PM, in article> > 1120087981.900047.325720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "AEF"! > <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:  >  > > 
 > > Hello, > > F > > WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andK > > various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when J > > you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.+ > > The state is determined by the function  > >  > >     f$getjpi("","STATE") > > J > > The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are > > reported as COM. > > J > > Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at > > which it is run? > > 7 > > (Tested on VMS v6.1 and v6.2, both on VAX systems.)  > > 3 > > (On some systems it may be called WORKSET.COM.)  > >  > > Thanks.  > > M > This is because you arte at a high priority and when ever you are executing M > the function f$getjpi, you will always be at the CUR or current state, that H > is the one process on the system that has the CPU above all others, soD > anyone else that wants the CPU at that time will show up as COM orG > computable. You are preempting all lower processes that want the CPU.  >  > Jeff  @ Well, talk about the act of measuring affecting the measurement!  C If my running workset.com is compute bound, and all other processes F want the CPU, then that makes sense. But there are many processes thatG are just sitting there doing nothing. For example, I have several other A terminal sessions only and there are all inactive. At priority 15 > pretty much ALL processes go into the COM state as reported by workset.com.  H I'll do some more experimentation later. Thanks for your rapid response!   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 19:35:40 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority C Message-ID: <1120098940.427587.300870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Jeff Chimene wrote:  > AEF wrote:
 > > Hello, > > F > > WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andK > > various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when J > > you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.+ > > The state is determined by the function  > >  > >     f$getjpi("","STATE") > > J > > The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are > > reported as COM. > > J > > Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at > > which it is run? > H > Because your process running working_set.com is using all the CPU? All8 > other processes are forced to non-CUR states, e.g. COM > < > For extra credit, code up a real-time CPU-burner that alsoJ > allocates/frees a few mebibytes of VM. Fire off a few of those and watch > with working_set.com > 	 > Cheers,  > jec   A Thanks for your rapid response! But some of my processes are idle 4 terminal sessions. Why are they waiting for the CPU?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:08:51 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority + Message-ID: <42C36243.3A79FA13@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > Hello, > D > WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andI > various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when H > you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.) > The state is determined by the function  >  >     f$getjpi("","STATE") > H > The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are > reported as COM. > H > Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at > which it is run?  B Well, think about it: the priority effects CPU scheduling. If yourG process (running WORKING_SET.COM) is more eligible to be scheduled into C the CPU than the other processes, what's going to happen to the CPU  queue?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 03:33:53 +0000 7 From: David B Sneddon - bigpond <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority * Message-ID: <42C36821.2070605@bigpond.com>   AEF mentioned in passing:  >  > Jeff Chimene wrote:  >  >>AEF wrote: >>	 >>>Hello,  >>> E >>>WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes and J >>>various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that whenI >>>you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM. * >>>The state is determined by the function >>>  >>>    f$getjpi("","STATE")  >>> I >>>The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are  >>>reported as COM.  >>> I >>>Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at  >>>which it is run?  >>H >>Because your process running working_set.com is using all the CPU? All8 >>other processes are forced to non-CUR states, e.g. COM >>< >>For extra credit, code up a real-time CPU-burner that alsoJ >>allocates/frees a few mebibytes of VM. Fire off a few of those and watch >>with working_set.com >>	 >>Cheers,  >>jec  >  > C > Thanks for your rapid response! But some of my processes are idle 6 > terminal sessions. Why are they waiting for the CPU?  : Does $GETJPI not operate within the context of the process; you want the information about?  In which case that process 0 would need to "run" to return the information...   Regards, Dave --  B David B Sneddon (dbs) VMS Systems Programmer dbsneddon@bigpond.comB Sneddo's quick guide ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/B DBS freeware   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 21:15:25 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority C Message-ID: <1120104925.000068.271280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Jeff Cameron wrote:   > On 6/29/05 4:33 PM, in article> > 1120087981.900047.325720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "AEF"! > <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:  >  > > 
 > > Hello, > > F > > WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andK > > various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when J > > you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.+ > > The state is determined by the function  > >  > >     f$getjpi("","STATE") > > J > > The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are > > reported as COM. > > J > > Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at > > which it is run? > > 7 > > (Tested on VMS v6.1 and v6.2, both on VAX systems.)  > > 3 > > (On some systems it may be called WORKSET.COM.)  > >  > > Thanks.  > > M > This is because you arte at a high priority and when ever you are executing M > the function f$getjpi, you will always be at the CUR or current state, that H > is the one process on the system that has the CPU above all others, soD > anyone else that wants the CPU at that time will show up as COM orG > computable. You are preempting all lower processes that want the CPU.  >  > Jeff  B But don't many processes NOT want the CPU? Shouldn't they still be reported as LEF and HIB?  ? I did some more experimentation. I found that any process whose G priority is less than yours always shows up as COM no matter what. Even F a WAIT command shows up as COM. It seems to me that it really is in an
 LEF state.   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 21:16:52 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority B Message-ID: <1120105012.596730.55190@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > AEF wrote: > > 
 > > Hello, > > F > > WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andK > > various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when J > > you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.+ > > The state is determined by the function  > >  > >     f$getjpi("","STATE") > > J > > The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are > > reported as COM. > > J > > Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at > > which it is run? > D > Well, think about it: the priority effects CPU scheduling. If yourI > process (running WORKING_SET.COM) is more eligible to be scheduled into E > the CPU than the other processes, what's going to happen to the CPU  > queue? >   D But many processes don't want the CPU, yet if their priority is lessD than yours they always show up as COM, even a process running a WAIT
 statement.   > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  >  > Coming soon:( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jun 2005 21:19:08 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority B Message-ID: <1120105148.505681.16650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    David B Sneddon - bigpond wrote: > AEF mentioned in passing:  > >  > > Jeff Chimene wrote:  > >  > >>AEF wrote: > >> > >>>Hello,  > >>> G > >>>WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes and L > >>>various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that whenK > >>>you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM. , > >>>The state is determined by the function > >>>  > >>>    f$getjpi("","STATE")  > >>> K > >>>The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are  > >>>reported as COM.  > >>> K > >>>Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at  > >>>which it is run?  > >>J > >>Because your process running working_set.com is using all the CPU? All: > >>other processes are forced to non-CUR states, e.g. COM > >>> > >>For extra credit, code up a real-time CPU-burner that alsoL > >>allocates/frees a few mebibytes of VM. Fire off a few of those and watch > >>with working_set.com > >> > >>Cheers,  > >>jec  > >  > > E > > Thanks for your rapid response! But some of my processes are idle 8 > > terminal sessions. Why are they waiting for the CPU? > < > Does $GETJPI not operate within the context of the process= > you want the information about?  In which case that process 2 > would need to "run" to return the information...  C I don't see how this can be. If $getjpi ran in the target process's D context, wouldn't its result go into a symbol in that target processF and screw it up? Also, if the target process needs to run $getjpi thanF I'd expect to see processes all show up as CUR, since they are running as you say.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:40:19 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 0 Message-ID: <BEE8D3D3.105AF%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 6/29/05 7:34 PM, in article< 1120098848.856048.170530@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:    >  >  > Jeff Cameron wrote: ! >> On 6/29/05 4:33 PM, in article ? >> 1120087981.900047.325720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "AEF" " >> <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote: >>   >>> 
 >>> Hello, >>> F >>> WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andK >>> various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when J >>> you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.+ >>> The state is determined by the function  >>>  >>>     f$getjpi("","STATE") >>> J >>> The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are >>> reported as COM. >>> J >>> Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at >>> which it is run? >>> 7 >>> (Tested on VMS v6.1 and v6.2, both on VAX systems.)  >>> 3 >>> (On some systems it may be called WORKSET.COM.)  >>>  >>> Thanks.  >>> N >> This is because you arte at a high priority and when ever you are executingN >> the function f$getjpi, you will always be at the CUR or current state, thatI >> is the one process on the system that has the CPU above all others, so E >> anyone else that wants the CPU at that time will show up as COM or H >> computable. You are preempting all lower processes that want the CPU. >>   >> Jeff  > B > Well, talk about the act of measuring affecting the measurement! > E > If my running workset.com is compute bound, and all other processes H > want the CPU, then that makes sense. But there are many processes thatI > are just sitting there doing nothing. For example, I have several other C > terminal sessions only and there are all inactive. At priority 15 @ > pretty much ALL processes go into the COM state as reported by > workset.com. > J > I'll do some more experimentation later. Thanks for your rapid response! > K You have to understand that your process may not be using much CPU it self. L But remember that whenever you are executing f$getjpi for information on anyI process, yours or others, you will be the currently executing CPU, and if J you have a higher priority than all the rest, then they will be stacked upJ waiting for CPU themselves. In most cases, these lesser priority processesI may finish their IO and are awaiting CPU to process the I/O that has just H completed, so you are going to see more processes be in the COM state as! they await you releasing the CPU.    Jeff   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:46:39 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 0 Message-ID: <BEE8D54F.105B1%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 6/29/05 7:35 PM, in article< 1120098940.427587.300870@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:    >  >  > Jeff Chimene wrote: 
 >> AEF wrote: 
 >>> Hello, >>> F >>> WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andK >>> various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when J >>> you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.+ >>> The state is determined by the function  >>>  >>>     f$getjpi("","STATE") >>> J >>> The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are >>> reported as COM. >>> J >>> Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at >>> which it is run? >>  I >> Because your process running working_set.com is using all the CPU? All 9 >> other processes are forced to non-CUR states, e.g. COM  >>  = >> For extra credit, code up a real-time CPU-burner that also K >> allocates/frees a few mebibytes of VM. Fire off a few of those and watch  >> with working_set.com  >>  
 >> Cheers, >> jec > C > Thanks for your rapid response! But some of my processes are idle 6 > terminal sessions. Why are they waiting for the CPU? > K If the terminal session is just waiting at the DCL prompt, this is not just K a standard read with wait operation. Many things can interrupt it's IO wait I and make it computable. Such as exception handling and AST handling. Also I because your process is doing a F$getjpi on another process, part of that J operation of obtaining information located in that processes process spaceK requires that that process execute a few kernel instructions in the context G of that process to pick up where it left off, so it becomes computable.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:48:22 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 0 Message-ID: <BEE8D5B6.105B2%roktsci@comcast.net>  E On 6/29/05 8:33 PM, in article 42C36821.2070605@bigpond.com, "David B 1 Sneddon - bigpond" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote:    > AEF mentioned in passing:  >>   >> Jeff Chimene wrote: >>   >>> AEF wrote: >>>  >>>> Hello,  >>>>  G >>>> WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes and L >>>> various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that whenK >>>> you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM. , >>>> The state is determined by the function >>>>   >>>>    f$getjpi("","STATE") >>>>  K >>>> The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are  >>>> reported as COM.  >>>>  K >>>> Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at  >>>> which it is run?  >>> J >>> Because your process running working_set.com is using all the CPU? All: >>> other processes are forced to non-CUR states, e.g. COM >>> > >>> For extra credit, code up a real-time CPU-burner that alsoL >>> allocates/frees a few mebibytes of VM. Fire off a few of those and watch >>> with working_set.com >>>  >>> Cheers,  >>> jec  >>   >>  D >> Thanks for your rapid response! But some of my processes are idle7 >> terminal sessions. Why are they waiting for the CPU?  > < > Does $GETJPI not operate within the context of the process= > you want the information about?  In which case that process 2 > would need to "run" to return the information...  L Exactly, and therefore the process that was looked at becomes computable for a few kernel instructions.   Jeff > 
 > Regards, > Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:50:16 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 0 Message-ID: <BEE8D628.105B5%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 6/29/05 9:15 PM, in article< 1120104925.000068.271280@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:    >  >  > Jeff Cameron wrote: ! >> On 6/29/05 4:33 PM, in article ? >> 1120087981.900047.325720@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "AEF" " >> <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote: >>   >>> 
 >>> Hello, >>> F >>> WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andK >>> various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when J >>> you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.+ >>> The state is determined by the function  >>>  >>>     f$getjpi("","STATE") >>> J >>> The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are >>> reported as COM. >>> J >>> Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at >>> which it is run? >>> 7 >>> (Tested on VMS v6.1 and v6.2, both on VAX systems.)  >>> 3 >>> (On some systems it may be called WORKSET.COM.)  >>>  >>> Thanks.  >>> N >> This is because you arte at a high priority and when ever you are executingN >> the function f$getjpi, you will always be at the CUR or current state, thatI >> is the one process on the system that has the CPU above all others, so E >> anyone else that wants the CPU at that time will show up as COM or H >> computable. You are preempting all lower processes that want the CPU. >>   >> Jeff  > D > But don't many processes NOT want the CPU? Shouldn't they still be > reported as LEF and HIB?  L Not if your process looks at it, then it has to run under it's context for a few instructions.    > A > I did some more experimentation. I found that any process whose I > priority is less than yours always shows up as COM no matter what. Even H > a WAIT command shows up as COM. It seems to me that it really is in an > LEF state.   Correct! >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:53:55 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>K Subject: Re: WORKING_SET.COM gives all COM states when run at high priority 0 Message-ID: <BEE8D703.105B7%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 6/29/05 9:19 PM, in article; 1120105148.505681.16650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "AEF"  <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:    >  > " > David B Sneddon - bigpond wrote: >> AEF mentioned in passing: >>>  >>> Jeff Chimene wrote:  >>>  >>>> AEF wrote:  >>>>   >>>>> Hello, >>>>> H >>>>> WORKING_SET.COM, which is in SYS$EXAMPLES, lists all processes andM >>>>> various working set statistics for each. I recently found out that when L >>>>> you run it at high priority, most or all of the states show up as COM.- >>>>> The state is determined by the function  >>>>>  >>>>>    f$getjpi("","STATE")  >>>>> L >>>>> The higher the priority, the higher the percentage of states which are >>>>> reported as COM. >>>>> L >>>>> Why should the result of this function be dependent on the priority at >>>>> which it is run? >>>>  K >>>> Because your process running working_set.com is using all the CPU? All ; >>>> other processes are forced to non-CUR states, e.g. COM  >>>>  ? >>>> For extra credit, code up a real-time CPU-burner that also M >>>> allocates/frees a few mebibytes of VM. Fire off a few of those and watch  >>>> with working_set.com  >>>>   >>>> Cheers, >>>> jec >>>  >>> E >>> Thanks for your rapid response! But some of my processes are idle 8 >>> terminal sessions. Why are they waiting for the CPU? >>  = >> Does $GETJPI not operate within the context of the process > >> you want the information about?  In which case that process3 >> would need to "run" to return the information...  > E > I don't see how this can be. If $getjpi ran in the target process's F > context, wouldn't its result go into a symbol in that target processH > and screw it up? Also, if the target process needs to run $getjpi thanH > I'd expect to see processes all show up as CUR, since they are running
 > as you say.  > K It wont be CUR because you are the process that has commanded the operation J and while the information that was fetched from the other process is beingK placed in your memory area it is running under the context of your process. G Since the other process has already handed off the data back to you, it I still has a few more instructions to do under it's context to get back to < the state it was in before you asked it for its information.   Jeff   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:28:56 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>9 Subject: Re: write sequential variable len record from PC = Message-ID: <2vadnSR6oIVUoV7fRVn-rA@metrocastcablevision.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:n > In article <b6ewe.7728$Bq4.3474@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> writes: > B >>: Set file/attr=(RFM=VAR, RAT=CR, MRS=2300, LRL=2266) !Where theF >>: actual MRS and LRL should be based on what you know to be based onD >>: what you wrote in the file.  Usually with variable format files,% >>: slightly larger values will work.  >  >  > 1 >>Obviously MRS must be equal or larger than LRL.  >  > E >    I think you've got MRS and LRL backward.  They're not intuitive.   = Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, they're reasonably  C straight-forward and John had it right:  MRS describes the maximum  E *permissible* record size in the file, and LRL describes the largest  H *existing* record in the file.  Given the regrettable ability for users H (rather than only RMS) to muck around at will with such attributes, I'd H hope that RMS isn't too anal about, say, seeing LRL > MRS - not that it   wouldn't have every right to be.   - bill   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.362 ************************