1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 06 Mar 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 130       Contents: Re: BSD installation on simh4 C RTL: creat() v. open(): "mode" argument difference. Re: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership. Re: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership. Re: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership. RE: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership. Re: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership, Does OpenVMS exist for the Sinclair ZX81 ???# Re: Fiorina and The Peter Principle ! Re: How to grow OpenVMS?  Simple! ! Re: How to grow OpenVMS?  Simple!  Re: New OpenVMS-Integrity Video  Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU. 6 Re: Rdb's impact on $persona_delete ss$_personadelpend  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 06 Mar 2005 09:38:35 GMT From: rmk@toad.rmkhome.com% Subject: Re: BSD installation on simh 5 Message-ID: <422acf9b$0$42483$75868355@news.frii.net>   @ Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org> wrote:  @ :The Simh user mailing list might be a better place to ask this:  7 :http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh   F And http://www.netbsd.org/ has directions for installing Netbsd/vax on SIMH.  --   Rick Kelly	rmk@rmkhome.com 		<http://www.rmkhome.com/>  		<http://rkba.rmkhome.com/>   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 10:27:10 -0600 (CST)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)= Subject: C RTL: creat() v. open(): "mode" argument difference 2 Message-ID: <05030610271070_27800279@antinode.org>  5    According to the /82FINAL/ C RTL reference manual:   > int creat (const char *file_spec, mode_t mode); (ISO POSIX-1) F int creat (const char *file_spec, mode_t mode, ...); (HP C EXTENSION)   C int open (const char *file_spec, int flags, mode_t mode); (ANSI C)  C int open (const char *file_spec, int flags, ...); (HP C EXTENSION)    E    As open() can also create a file (flags: O_CREAT, O_TRUNC), why is G the "mode" argument allowed with the optional arguments in creat(), but  not in open()?  D    It doesn't seem to be a typo, as an attempt to call open() with a> mode and optional args (on VMS V7.3-1) failed at run-time withG "%SYSTEM-?-BADPARAM, bad parameter value".  (Same result with the value  of "mode" being 0 or 0777.)   #    Any wisdom would be appreciated.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 02:52:21 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 7 Subject: Re: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership B Message-ID: <1110094790.337002d6dba62e15b1ae7fb5e40c6c10@teranews>   Z wrote: > H > "There is a pretty damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership while at > HP on TechnologyReview.com.   A In fairness to La Carly, she did much of her destruction with the @ consent and support of the board. She spun off HP's origins (nowF Agilent), she bought Compaq, cut R&D and focused on consumer products.G The board could have ousted her at the Compaq merger. Remember that she  was already being criticised.   F And it took the board a mighty long time to fire her after her refusal to have a COO.  E This is a tribute to her salesmanship though. She managed to convince D the board to give her plenty of freedom to implement her view of the world for a very long time.   G It was no surprise that Curly left HP. But when you look at the rumours F that he might actually be considered for Carly's replacement, if makesC me wonder if the HP board now consider that Curly's performance was F dismal not because of his incompetance, but because of Carly's refusal to work with anyone.  G BTW, all VMS customers should go on HP's web site and write comments to H the board of directors about how hiring Curly would be a big mistake andG how he destroyed any trust we had in him due to his lies about Compaq's  commitment to Alpba and VMS.  H Remember that folks like Winkler are probably lobbying hard to get Curly< back. The board must not get only Curly's side of the story.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 04:05:20 -0800 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>7 Subject: Re: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership / Message-ID: <BE503200.87C8%roktsci@comcast.net>   I On 3/5/05 9:32 PM, in article 1KwWd.223$Ys7.115@fe03.lga, "Z" <Z@no.spam>  wrote:  H > "There is a pretty damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership while atE > HP on TechnologyReview.com. The author was working for HP Labs, the J > center of invention and innovation for the company, only to be told thatE > nothing exciting will happen in the tech market since it's a mature G > industry. He left the company in 2003. "The lab was never packed with J > genius marketers. Carly told us we had no business sense, and that everyI > project needed to make a profit within three years or less. She usually J > said that right before the research budget got slashed again and morelab > employees were laid off."" > F > http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/03/wo/wo_delio030405.asp  H Fact: MBA's don't listen to Engineers because Engineers have no businessI sense. It doesn't matter if the Engineers have invented the next greatest F thing in technology, or if they say "O"-rings crack when it gets cold.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 15:03:30 +0100A From: "Mart-info @ Martinnovations BV" <mhm.info@martinnovats.nl> 7 Subject: Re: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership ? Message-ID: <001d01c52255$49dd4690$82085e0a@martinnovations.nl>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5225D.A877BED0  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   C Nothing exciting will happen. yeah right. Well, austriges are not =  extinct (yet).  C Coming to think of it there' s Philips' most recent announcement: = C roll-up screens. Looking from a different perspective: paper that = D doesn't need ink... Hey, thats something EPSON should think about...!   ----- Original Message -----=20    From: Jeff Cameron=20    To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com=20&   Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 1:05 PM9   Subject: Re: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership     A   On 3/5/05 9:32 PM, in article 1KwWd.223$Ys7.115@fe03.lga, "Z" =  <Z@no.spam>    wrote:  I   > "There is a pretty damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership while =  atG   > HP on TechnologyReview.com. The author was working for HP Labs, the I   > center of invention and innovation for the company, only to be told =  thatG   > nothing exciting will happen in the tech market since it's a mature F   > industry. He left the company in 2003. "The lab was never packed = withH   > genius marketers. Carly told us we had no business sense, and that = every E   > project needed to make a profit within three years or less. She =  usually F   > said that right before the research budget got slashed again and = morelab    > employees were laid off.""   >=20H   > http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/03/wo/wo_delio030405.asp  C   Fact: MBA's don't listen to Engineers because Engineers have no =  businessD   sense. It doesn't matter if the Engineers have invented the next = greatestH   thing in technology, or if they say "O"-rings crack when it gets cold.      + ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5225D.A877BED0  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Diso-8859-1">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1491" name=3DGENERATOR>  <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>! <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> E <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nothing exciting will happen. yeah =  right. Well,=20 - austriges are not extinct (yet).</FONT></DIV> D <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>Coming to think of it&nbsp;there' s Philips' most =	 recent=20 F announcement: roll-up screens. Looking from a different perspective: =
 paper that=20 > doesn't need ink... Hey, thats something EPSON should think=20 about...</FONT></DIV>  <BLOCKQUOTE=20C style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = 3 BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> E   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> 	   <DIV=20 ?   style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =  black"><B>From:</B>=20"   <A title=3Droktsci@comcast.net =+ href=3D"mailto:roktsci@comcast.net">Jeff=20    Cameron</A> </DIV>1   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =   title=3DInfo-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com=20H   href=3D"mailto:Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com">Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</A> </DIV>G   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 06, 2005 =  1:05=20  PM</DIV>G   <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Damning look at =  Carly=20   Fiorina's leadership</DIV>4   <DIV><BR></DIV>On 3/5/05 9:32 PM, in article <A=20   = J href=3D"mailto:1KwWd.223$Ys7.115@fe03.lga">1KwWd.223$Ys7.115@fe03.lga</A>= , "Z"=20
   &lt;<A =J href=3D"mailto:Z@no.spam">Z@no.spam</A>&gt;<BR>wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; "There =  @   is a pretty damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership while = at<BR>&gt; HP on=20 I   TechnologyReview.com. The author was working for HP Labs, the<BR>&gt; = 	 center=20 @   of invention and innovation for the company, only to be told = that<BR>&gt;=20 @   nothing exciting will happen in the tech market since it's a = mature<BR>&gt;=20 D   industry. He left the company in 2003. "The lab was never packed = with<BR>&gt;=20 G   genius marketers. Carly told us we had no business sense, and that=20 G   every<BR>&gt; project needed to make a profit within three years or =  less. She=20J   usually<BR>&gt; said that right before the research budget got slashed = again=20G   and morelab<BR>&gt; employees were laid off.""<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <A=20    = J href=3D"http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/03/wo/wo_delio030405.=J asp">http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/03/wo/wo_delio030405.asp= </A><BR><BR>Fact:=20=   MBA's don't listen to Engineers because Engineers have no =  business<BR>sense.=20 =   It doesn't matter if the Engineers have invented the next =  greatest<BR>thing in=20 <   technology, or if they say "O"-rings crack when it gets=20, cold.<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C5225D.A877BED0--    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 09:42:19 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 7 Subject: RE: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594CA7@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Jeff Cameron [mailto:roktsci@comcast.net]=20 > Sent: March 6, 2005 7:05 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 > Subject: Re: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership  >=20B > On 3/5/05 9:32 PM, in article 1KwWd.223$Ys7.115@fe03.lga, "Z"=20
 > <Z@no.spam>  > wrote: >=209 > > "There is a pretty damning look at Carly Fiorina's=20  > leadership while at G > > HP on TechnologyReview.com. The author was working for HP Labs, the B > > center of invention and innovation for the company, only to=20 > be told thatG > > nothing exciting will happen in the tech market since it's a mature @ > > industry. He left the company in 2003. "The lab was never=20
 > packed with @ > > genius marketers. Carly told us we had no business sense,=20 > and that everyB > > project needed to make a profit within three years or less.=20
 > She usually = > > said that right before the research budget got slashed=20  > again and morelab  > > employees were laid off."" > >=20H > > http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/03/wo/wo_delio030405.asp >=20A > Fact: MBA's don't listen to Engineers because Engineers have=20 
 > no business @ > sense. It doesn't matter if the Engineers have invented the=20 > next greatest H > thing in technology, or if they say "O"-rings crack when it gets cold. >=20    G Re: MBA's .. Could not help remembering the great AD that Fed Ex had on  TV.   
 Reference:B http://homepage.mac.com/peterlevesque/iblog/C651163868/E572813642/   :-)   F Article that follows the Fed Ex AD talk in this pointer is quite good.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:36:03 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 7 Subject: Re: Damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership 0 Message-ID: <112m8ad95bt9o7d@corp.supernews.com>   Jeff Cameron wrote: K > On 3/5/05 9:32 PM, in article 1KwWd.223$Ys7.115@fe03.lga, "Z" <Z@no.spam>  > wrote: >  > H >>"There is a pretty damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership while atE >>HP on TechnologyReview.com. The author was working for HP Labs, the J >>center of invention and innovation for the company, only to be told thatE >>nothing exciting will happen in the tech market since it's a mature G >>industry. He left the company in 2003. "The lab was never packed with J >>genius marketers. Carly told us we had no business sense, and that everyI >>project needed to make a profit within three years or less. She usually J >>said that right before the research budget got slashed again and morelab >>employees were laid off."" >>F >>http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/03/wo/wo_delio030405.asp >  > J > Fact: MBA's don't listen to Engineers because Engineers have no businessK > sense. It doesn't matter if the Engineers have invented the next greatest H > thing in technology, or if they say "O"-rings crack when it gets cold. >   I The only problem with this is that MBAs won't get on the shuttle.  Gotta  ' find some other way to get rid of them.    ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 08:26:38 +0000 (UTC)+ From: insane_pile@yahoo.co.nz (Paul Eisner) 5 Subject: Does OpenVMS exist for the Sinclair ZX81 ??? $ Message-ID: <d0eert$5av$1@online.de>   illegal message cancelled    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2005 06:40:09 GMT 2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>, Subject: Re: Fiorina and The Peter Principle? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-Z1if3bsVP5zJ@dave2_os2.home.ours>   D On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 22:02:03 UTC, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>  wrote:   > Dave Weatherall wrote:H > > On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 21:17:48 UTC, Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> 
 > > wrote: > >  > >  > > J > >>Too late:  the last election already did.  Cut Kerry down a bit above I > >>the ankles and give him a fake Texas drawl, and it really would have  K > >>been Tweedledee (Kerry) and Tweedledum (emphasis on the last syllable).  > >>
 > >>- bill > >  > > J > > This is well OT and I apologise but what percentatge did Nader get? I . > > never a report anywhere. Was it so measly? > J > I think only about 1%:  the Democratic party did manage to keep most of J > its members in line, despite a significant lack of enthusiasm for Kerry. > K > Without Bush to hold over their heads as a threat, I suspect they'll not  I > do as well next time unless they decide to start acting like Democrats  K > again (no, not the old 'tax and spend' Democrats, just good, mainstream,  E > socially- and fiscally-responsible, non-corporate-whore Democrats).  >  > - bill  @ Thanks Bill - I hope your wish comes true, (No joke). I have to C confess I'd have been 'in-line' were I a citizen of the USA. OTOH,  4 Bush winning did get me off the hook vis-a-vis Iraq.  F Anyway, no need to prolong this part of the OT thread, I'm off to the  UK for a fortnight.    --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 14:53:00 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) * Subject: Re: How to grow OpenVMS?  Simple!L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0603050953010001@user-uinj56n.dialup.mindspring.com>  < In article <BE4FC505.87A1%roktsci@comcast.net>, Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> wrote:   ...   K > I would say that making OpenVMS available on HP Integrity servers besides  >Itanium is a positive sign. > J >Can anyone enlighten me as to the processor architecture of the Integrity	 >servers?   I I don't think I understand this question.  What do you mean by "processor  architecture"?  E Integrity servers use Itanium CPUs.  Some of the servers can also use J PA-RISC CPUs; I don't know if they are still called "Integrity" servers in
 that case.  8 Are you suggesting that VMS should be ported to PA-RISC?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 08:39:23 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> * Subject: Re: How to grow OpenVMS?  Simple!( Message-ID: <opsm75vxtdzgicya@hyrrokkin>  4 On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 14:53:00 GMT, Robert Deininger  % <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote:   > > In article <BE4FC505.87A1%roktsci@comcast.net>, Jeff Cameron > <roktsci@comcast.net> wrote: >  > ...  > F >> I would say that making OpenVMS available on HP Integrity servers  
 >> besides >> Itanium is a positive sign. >>D >> Can anyone enlighten me as to the processor architecture of the   >> Integrity >> servers?  > K > I don't think I understand this question.  What do you mean by "processor  > architecture"? > G > Integrity servers use Itanium CPUs.  Some of the servers can also use K > PA-RISC CPUs; I don't know if they are still called "Integrity" servers    > in > that case. > : > Are you suggesting that VMS should be ported to PA-RISC?, a Big-Endian version of VMS would be nice:-)     --  C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Mar 2005 05:59:22 -0800 * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>( Subject: Re: New OpenVMS-Integrity VideoC Message-ID: <1110117562.060524.257240@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote:  > @ > > Any VMS admin understanding the world we are living in, does= > > probably have a PC on their desk. So what's the problem ? ? > > Don't we all want the message about VMS to be wide spread ?  > B > Then why not use more open standards such as MPG ?  Don't wintel boxes > > have the ability to play MPG movies, or just the proprietary	 microsoft  > formats ?   ? Especially as wmv (9) is standard mpeg-4 but within a Microsoft F proprietary file format. It could have been an mpeg 4 AVI (or straightC mpeg-2) and Windows Media Player could still have played it without $ making it awkward for everyone else.  E I'm assuming this is the same Integrity Video I just downloaded a few D weeks ago or have HP moved into producing weekly episodes. Is it theC one with Mark Gorham and a tie that looks like it should be wrapped  around Christmas presents? --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 10:19:09 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> ( Subject: Re: Ouch! a *MAJOR* bug in TPU.0 Message-ID: <d0eles$47t$1@sparta.btinternet.com>   Hi,   , Wow, the things people get passionate about.  F I don't want to remove any existing features with modifiable read-onlyL buffers. (Having said that the only examples in this thread that I could seeF for their use were to do with wrapping lines. Doesn't SHIFT LEFT/RIGHT? handle this? A lot of people define GOLD/Rightarrow/Leftarrow?)   I All I'm saying is, I don't think it unreasonable to ask "WRITE BUFFER x?" L before exiting. Would it really be that much of a nuisance for you? How manyE times have you been saved by "Buffer Modifications Will Not Be Saved, I Continue Quitting [YES]?"? It certainly saved my arse a few times! But by H the looks of things I appear more prone to random acts of stupidity thanK your average subscriber. Seatbelts, StackHats all good stuff! (Then again I @ don't wear a helmet on a push bike but I think all kids should.)  L Anyway, I'm not fussed if it's never changed. I'm just a little surprised it was not the default behaviour.   Regards Richard Maher   G "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message news:...  > Hi,  > K > I didn't see the original problem, but along the lines of "*MAJOR* bug in # > TPU" how's this for a feature : -  > D > 1) You edit some code with /READ 'cos the source in your reference	 directory 6 > and you haven't checked it out for modification yet. > J > 2) You suddenly suffer from an epiphany as hundreds of new lines of code > rush down to your fingers  > G > 3) You reach for the mouse and change the buffer from unmodifiable to K > go-crazy (You're an adult! You'll sort out the niceties later. So what if  it > contains nuts?)  > - > 4) Hours fly by in your code induced frenzy  > 4 > 5) You EXIT out of TPU ready to debug your changes > E > 6) Just like magic your file is exactly how it started and all your  changes  > have gone up in smoke :-(  > E > Not a warning message! Not a "Would you like a chance to save these  > changes?" Nothin'! >  > Nice.  >  > Cheers Richard >  >    ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 07:41:59 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> ? Subject: Re: Rdb's impact on $persona_delete ss$_personadelpend 2 Message-ID: <d0ec86$mqb$1@hercules.btinternet.com>  	 Hi Larry,   I > From an internals perspective, it seems to me it was retaining a handle . > to the persona beyond its apparent lifetime.  1 Excellent! How exactly would one accomplish that?   H > Well, yes and no.  While the political drivel is annoying, this nuanceJ > of a small bugfix may not be worth discussion.  Certainly it should haveH > been in the release notes (and I have not looked myself to see that itF > is missing), but learning the details does not seem really useful toB > those of us who do not have regular access to the source of Rdb.  J Why does it appear to be only me that sees this persona stuff as heraldingF in nothing less than a revolutionary, avant-garde sea-change in serverH system design? I understand that there are developers out there, such asG yourself, that see a thousand users and automatically create a thousand L threads but if you take a minute to allow for the possibility that there mayL be advantages in a design where a given process may wish to swap persona forL each unit of work in a client/server environment then you might just find itJ useful to obtain the answers to the conundrums that I am posing. (ACMS hasF certainly never done this, and dear God please let it be true that RdbH engineering has been tightening up it's session level security all these	 years!!!)   D > Perhaps the best lesson learned would be if someone from Rdb wouldA > give the details to VMS Documentation to see if something about @ > persona manipulation needs more emphasis in the documentation.   I Agree 100%   Regards Richard Maher   : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:mb8fZvKIHoQ6@eisner.encompasserve.org... B > In article <d0bokl$rua$1@sparta.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher"% <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > 1 > > So it is clearly something Rdb was doing that / > > prevented the persona from dying. But what?  > I > From an internals perspective, it seems to me it was retaining a handle . > to the persona beyond its apparent lifetime. >  > > I scanned through the Rdb H > > release notes and could not find anything. Surely this is a lot moreG > > interesting then most of the crap that gets beaten to death in COV?  > H > Well, yes and no.  While the political drivel is annoying, this nuanceJ > of a small bugfix may not be worth discussion.  Certainly it should haveH > been in the release notes (and I have not looked myself to see that itF > is missing), but learning the details does not seem really useful toB > those of us who do not have regular access to the source of Rdb. > D > Perhaps the best lesson learned would be if someone from Rdb wouldA > give the details to VMS Documentation to see if something about @ > persona manipulation needs more emphasis in the documentation.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.130 ************************