1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 11 Mar 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 139       Contents: Audio on openVMS 8.2 Alpha Audio on openVMS 8.2 Alpha= Re: Can LYNX run in batch mode for FTP operations on OPENVMS? 1 Re: CC /MMS_DEPENDENCIES and related difficulties 1 Re: CC /MMS_DEPENDENCIES and related difficulties C Re: Changing MAC address from Ethernet Card DE450 to Built-in DE500 - Re: Changing Pathworks transport from NetBEUI ; Re: Compaq C V6.4-005 - VAX V7.3: hang with /opt = disjoint ; Re: Compaq C V6.4-005 - VAX V7.3: hang with /opt = disjoint  Re: Free 4GB disks Ghostview vs Display Postscript * Re: Has anyone had any bad T4 experiences? Re: History of the VMS shark Re: History of the VMS shark Re: History of the VMS shark Re: how to address "insfmem"% Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO , Re: I think my copy of VMS must be defective- Re: MOSAIC and DECW$SCN_CLIPLIST_AREA message - Re: MOSAIC and DECW$SCN_CLIPLIST_AREA message - Re: MOSAIC and DECW$SCN_CLIPLIST_AREA message - Re: MOSAIC and DECW$SCN_CLIPLIST_AREA message & Re: new Itanium after Tukwila: Poulson OT: Labels now "microsoftized"4 Re: Selling an operational MicroVAX II if interested, Re: Sony vs HP: a comparison of CEO oustings, Re: Sony vs HP: a comparison of CEO oustings, Re: Sony vs HP: a comparison of CEO oustings, Re: Sony vs HP: a comparison of CEO oustings
 Re: Tape Init $ Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions$ Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions$ Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions VFC Print file carriage control # Re: VFC Print file carriage control   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2005 14:32:10 -0800/ From: "Keith Lewis" <spud_g00@thundermaker.net> # Subject: Audio on openVMS 8.2 Alpha C Message-ID: <1110493930.373089.116220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   G I've been using the "unofficially supported" ESS audio device on v7.3-1 F (PWS 500au), now I upgrade to 8.2 and AUA0 no longer exists.  Has this capability been yanked?   G How about officially-supported devices such as AudioPCI, do any of them  still work on 8.2?  	 MMOV V2.2    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:50:49 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)# Subject: Audio on openVMS 8.2 Alpha 2 Message-ID: <05031016504953_27800279@antinode.org>  / From: "Keith Lewis" <spud_g00@thundermaker.net>   I > I've been using the "unofficially supported" ESS audio device on v7.3-1 H > (PWS 500au), now I upgrade to 8.2 and AUA0 no longer exists.  Has this > capability been yanked?   >    Did SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT (or wherever you put the  definition) survive the upgrade?  F    By the way, is it possible to get CD audio out through a sound card on one of these systems?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:29:00 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>F Subject: Re: Can LYNX run in batch mode for FTP operations on OPENVMS?+ Message-ID: <4231026C.80DE2321@comcast.net>   " mcaccavone@manfinancial.com wrote: > G > I have been asked by my networks team to sit behind a MS Proxy server  > for external FTP .  A Wlel, I'll be damned. I guess IT really *DOES* exist to serve the  network!  E Silly me - I thought IT served the company and the network served IT.    Learn something new everyday...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:53:40 GMT 5 From: "Ed Vogel" <edward.vogel_stop_the_spam.@hp.com> : Subject: Re: CC /MMS_DEPENDENCIES and related difficulties1 Message-ID: <ot2Yd.1461$RV3.676@news.cpqcorp.net>   7 "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message F >    How many people think that a form-feed added after every 60 lines  > really makes that file better? > F >    So, I guess I need a less-small script to modify the file.  Sigh.' > Don't mind me.  I'm just complaining.  >        Steven,   <     Clearly a bug in the C compiler.  This is the first time>     I've heard of it.  I've entered this in our bug list.  The     fix looks pretty simple.  9     Thanks for reporting it, and sorry for the trouble it      caused.        Ed Vogel$     HP/Compaq/DEC C/C++ Engineering.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:22:24 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda): Subject: Re: CC /MMS_DEPENDENCIES and related difficulties2 Message-ID: <05031015222402_27800279@antinode.org>  5 From: "Ed Vogel" <edward.vogel_stop_the_spam.@hp.com>   > >     Clearly a bug in the C compiler.  This is the first time@ >     I've heard of it.  I've entered this in our bug list.  The >     fix looks pretty simple.  F    I'm tempted to say that no one has reported it because no one findsE the feature friendly enough to use it, but I'll just bite my tongue.  5 (Something about beggars and choosers comes to mind.)   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:08:57 -0800 " From: Crabs <spamsucks@nospam.com>L Subject: Re: Changing MAC address from Ethernet Card DE450 to Built-in DE500/ Message-ID: <nsadnZ987MLBhazfRVn-vA@sunset.net>    Yong Boon, Lim wrote: K > l've recently bought new AlphaServer DS10 (with 2 build-in ethernet port)  > for migration.I > After migrating from old system to new system, l realize that one of my  > application onlyK > regconize the old mac address. It means that l've to migrate the DE450 to  > the new systemM > also.....and l would like to change the MAC address of the built-in network  > card on Alpha....  > Is anyone how do change it?  >  > Thank you at lot.  >  > Your sincerely,  > Yong Boon, Lim >  > . To the best of my knowledge, the answer is no.C You can re-program a DEC DE500 or DE450 using the SROM programming  I utility, but I don't believe it is capable of re-programming an on board  D ethernet chip.  Does your system have room for an additional DEC500 ) card?  If so, no problem.  If not, sorry.    TomC   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2005 15:09:32 -0800) From: "Guy Morris" <guy@sitevision.co.nz> 6 Subject: Re: Changing Pathworks transport from NetBEUIC Message-ID: <1110496172.326927.162040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   B After correcting a problem in the routing table, adding entries toG HOSTS & LMHOSTS and restarting Pathworks, I can now see the server from C a PC.  So I went to define some shares, but got back the following:   @ %PWRK-E-ERRGETSERV, error getting server information for "DELTA": -LM-E-ERROR_BAD_NETPA, the network path cannot be located.  F I don't know how to progress from here as I don't know how to discover6 what network path it is trying, and failing, to locate   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:04:59 GMT 5 From: "Ed Vogel" <edward.vogel_stop_the_spam.@hp.com> D Subject: Re: Compaq C V6.4-005 - VAX V7.3: hang with /opt = disjoint2 Message-ID: <%D2Yd.1462$6X3.1149@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 "Steven M. Schweda" <sms@antinode.org> wrote in message H >    If anyone cares, I can supply a test case (138 blocks or less).  IfC > anyone has (or can point me to) a compiler (or code generator, or 6 > whatever) patch, I could be interested in that, too. > ?     I expect this is the same problem that is documented in the >     Release Notes for Compaq C V6.2 (the current VAX release).  3     As the Release Notes say, and as you note using -     /OPT=NODISJOINT works around the problem.   <     We have no plans to look at this problem.  Sorry for the     trouble it caused.       Ed Vogel$     HP/Compaq/DEC C/C++ Engineering.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:26:56 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)D Subject: Re: Compaq C V6.4-005 - VAX V7.3: hang with /opt = disjoint2 Message-ID: <05031015265601_27800279@antinode.org>  5 From: "Ed Vogel" <edward.vogel_stop_the_spam.@hp.com>   > >     We have no plans to look at this problem.  Sorry for the >     trouble it caused.  D    Lazy bums.  But I do appreciate the response.  I'll just add some' clutter to the appropriate DESCRIP.MMS.   E    I notice that the VAX compiler version seems not to be changing as D fast as the others.  Has it reached a stable state, or is there some (dim) hope for the future?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2005 17:39:06 -0800 From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Subject: Re: Free 4GB disks C Message-ID: <1110505146.461833.292340@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   8 > Are there adaptors to 50 pin ribbon cable connectors ?  F Yes, but surely a ST15150N (4.3 gig narrow) these days is cheaper thanB a $20 adapter?  I see bunches of those drives go without buyers atC $0.99 on E-bay.  I was buying them for real $ used in the 1998-1999 D timeframe, but I gave all of those away in the last couple of years.   Tim.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 18:00:19 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ( Subject: Ghostview vs Display PostscriptB Message-ID: <1110495636.0f00e6ccba5d58f4137fb75fc459942e@teranews>  F Develooping a postscript program that was fairly simple, I was able toG use the CDA viewer to test it as the program was being developped. (CDA F viewer doesn't support PS level 2). One really neat foption is to haveG it progressively display the outpout as it is being rasterised. So when F it fails, you have a good idea of where it fails, on top of the actual error message.  F Considering that display postscript is no longer availble to those who@ upgraded beyond 7.2, does Ghostview have a similar capability to< progressively display a page as it is being executed/drawn ?  G Having level 2 (at least) support on VMS would be really nice, since it G would save me from having to send the postscript over to my mac to have G it processed into a pdf and check the error messages, and then open the  output with acrobat reader.   7 (with the cda viewer, it is all done in one operation).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:16:03 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: Has anyone had any bad T4 experiences? + Message-ID: <4230FF63.ADC415AB@comcast.net>    Pat Moran wrote: >  > David, >  > Try multifile graphs:  > D > Assuming you have T4 data from the cluster nodes for the same timeF > period, this command will plot matching parameters from each node on > one chart: > = > csvpng T4_*_<datetime>.CSV /param=all /width=xxx /heigh=xxx   , Well, my wild-card filespec looks like this:   T4_*_'P1_DATE'_%%%%_%%%%.CSV  G That works o.k. for F$SEARCH(), but CSVPNG produces no output - just an E "empty" .HTM file (header/trailer info, no graph stuff). The constant $ data is found in the symbol P1_DATE.  F > You could try the /stack and /fill options to see if you the results > you want.   C If I can work out the wild-card issue, I'll see where I can go from  there...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Mar 2005 19:51:54 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>% Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark 7 Message-ID: <Xns9615D47DDCF43dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   I %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Peter Weaver wrote in news:39bg2bF5ulk7nU1@individual.net   C > If I had any talent or knew anyone who did, I would like to get a H > picture of a bunch of lemmings (with the Windows Logo on them) jumping- > off a cliff into the mouth a the VMS shark.    For those with a Windows box...   $ http://193.151.73.87/games/lemmings/   Some lemmings. ;-)     Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 13:22:22 -0800 % From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> % Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark 7 Message-ID: <3f119ada05031013227a69fbb1@mail.gmail.com>   @ On 10 Mar 2005 19:51:54 GMT, Doc. <doc@openvms-rocks.com> wrote:! > For those with a Windows box...  > & > http://193.151.73.87/games/lemmings/    Well, there goes my afternoon...   Long time Lemmings addict,   -Dean    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:03:20 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>% Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark + Message-ID: <42310A78.5A6A457F@comcast.net>    Peter Weaver wrote:  >  > Kenneth Farmer wrote:  > >...F > > It would be great to get a graphic artist to do a rendition of theC > > Great White logo with a dead penguin in his mouth.  Someone had  > > mentioned that somewhere.   H Well, in memory of Jown Wisniewski, I think I'd rather promote VMS/Linux+ interoperability for multi-tiered services.   C > If I had any talent or knew anyone who did, I would like to get a H > picture of a bunch of lemmings (with the Windows Logo on them) jumping- > off a cliff into the mouth a the VMS shark.   A ...with the lemmings being herded toward the "Cliff of 'Industry' * Standards" by - you guessed it - penguins!  F (Inspired by the Gorge of Eternal Peril form Monty Python and The Holy@ Grail: "Who would cross the Bridge of Death must answer me these- questions three, ere the other side ye see!")    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 23:27:51 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>% Subject: Re: how to address "insfmem" , Message-ID: <39bvumF5tnb9tU1@individual.net>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:   > U > http://www.openvms.digital.com/ebusiness/OptimizingSDKGuide/OptimizingSDKGuide.html  >   > Unfortunately, that seems to be a cover page and nothing else.8 (perhaps a result of switching Javascript off - I dunno)   Here's the .pdf:  7 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/ebusiness/OptimizingSDKGuide/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:10:51 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> . Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO, Message-ID: <rM6dnaq-2KRvWK3fRVn-1A@igs.net>   Rob Young wrote:; > In article <T6ednV7sadtrXrLfRVn-2w@igs.net>, "John Smith"  > <a@nonymous.com> writes: >  >>( >> Been drinking the Kool-Aid again Rob? >> > ! > Nope.  How goes it Johnny Anon?     K Don't go blaming JF for the sorry state of the VMS installed base, stuck at @ the mythical 411,000 systems for the past, what...8 years or so.  L Just treading water and staying at 411,000 - if that's even accurate - is as: good as being dead in the marketplace. It isn't a victory.   --. HP - Where Integrity means "No EV8 for You!!!"  F OpenVMS    - The often imitated but never advertised operating system.  D I could have had an EV8 but all I got was this lousy Itanic instead.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:52:34 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO+ Message-ID: <423107F2.AEC58448@comcast.net>    Rob Young wrote: > t > In article <1110417610.15cdca0eb3ae2e5472704358fed95dad@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >  > > Not too promising for VMS. > ? >         Come on purse your lips... give us a "death of VMS."    G Well, let me put it this way: there was another post recently on one of C the mailing lists I subscribe to at work indicating that a VMS shop G would be migrating to AIX for reasons that echo statements made in this  forum. (Such are not uncommon.)   C I forwarded it to HP/VMS management with the subject line, "Another = Endangered Account". (Again, not uncommon for me to do that.)   H Despite much vaunted - but so far, little documented - growth in the VMS4 market, the 'net is rife with evidence of attrition.  E Decision makers and juries alike base their decisions on the evidence 
 presented.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:03:24 -0500 ' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> 5 Subject: Re: I think my copy of VMS must be defective / Message-ID: <csa7g2-n2f.ln1@dadsys2.fuller.com>    Maaxx wrote:  K > Every computer it install it on comes alive and tries to suck my cock and ! > rape my asshole. What can I do?   K At the same time?  Now that's impressive.  Try doing that with your Winders  system.    --             Stu    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Mar 05 14:27:10 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) 6 Subject: Re: MOSAIC and DECW$SCN_CLIPLIST_AREA message! Message-ID: <CEtit2tT173g@wvnvms>   r In article <1110467926.97045541c26b49eb55597e3d1248e117@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > George Cook wrote:E >> I assume this error would not occur continuously unless Mosaic was E >> continuously trying to do something?  An animated GIF would be the F >> only possibility while Mosaic is otherwise idle (unless it is stuckE >> in continuous refresh URLs).  Would Mosaic see an error condition?  > F > Mosaic did not appear to complain at all. The only reason I detectedB > this was because I could HEAR the hard drive clicking at regularF > interval. I did a netstat to find out if there was someone trying toH > access that system, but that didn't do anything. And only by doing theE > MON SYSTEM did I realise that the DECW server was eating up cpu, at ( > which point it looked at its log file. > J > At the time, I know I had a page opened to the cannondale bike web site.C > If I have a minute, I may try again to see if I can reproduce the H > problem, at which point, I can look at the HTML source and see if they+ > have anything in there that isn't kosher.   D If you do reproduce it, try stopping image animations by clicking onE either the Logo or the Stop button.  If the errors stop at that point E then it is being caused by an animated GIF.  It wouldn't be the first 7 time that a "pathological" GIF caused unusual problems.      George Cook  WVNET    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Mar 05 19:26:02 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) 6 Subject: Re: MOSAIC and DECW$SCN_CLIPLIST_AREA message! Message-ID: <b1swDiiGArGB@wvnvms>   r In article <1110470015.815919205c0a21bfc67d4ba4b46425e1@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:# > Ok, I found the "offending" page.  >  > Sorry for the very long url: > 
>> http://clients.mapquest.com/cannondale/mqinterconnect?link=map&&clientpoi1=1&closestprox=1&miles=250&mouse_mode=indetify&si=2&so=1&ss=1&mt=455000&orig_lat=455000&mg=-735833&orig_lng=-735833&fc=Montreal%20%5bEnglish%5d%20%20Montreal%20%5bFrench%5d&fs=QC&fy=CA&ml=6 >  > H > validator.w3.org does report a number of structural errors along withaG > great deal of warnings (such as not enclosing 100% in quotes and some E > non existant tags, , but the page displays enough information to be C > usable, and I am able to click on the map to get a list of stores # > nearest to the area I clicked on.  > : > As soon as I close that page, the error reporting to the  > decw$server_0_error.log stops.  @ The errors are caused by the one animated GIF.  I duplicated theB errors on a 3100/SPX.  As soon as I stop the animation, the errorsF stop.  Its a non-transparent 70 by 263 GIF with a transparent animatedB 60 by 260 section.  I am not an X11 or SPX expert, so I don't knowB why it causes the errors other than it does require clipping.  TheD GIF, however, couldn't be much more stupidly designed (unless it wasC intentionally designed to impact performance).  It doesn't need any F transparency, and the actual animated part is only about 10 by 10.      > Clipping is a real killer on VAXes.  Mosaic will automatically= disable clipping if an image requires more than 2048 clipping @ transitions (a value which can be set higher as noted in the VMSA Mosaic doc).  The number of clipping transitions required for the ' transparent section of this GIF is 840.      George Cook  WVNET    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:08:01 -0500 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>6 Subject: Re: MOSAIC and DECW$SCN_CLIPLIST_AREA messageB Message-ID: <1110503277.23efb9551eded4bf1067cf3fb5045fa6@teranews>   George Cook wrote:  B > The errors are caused by the one animated GIF.  I duplicated theD > errors on a 3100/SPX.  As soon as I stop the animation, the errorsH > stop.  Its a non-transparent 70 by 263 GIF with a transparent animated > 60 by 260 section.    A Oh ! interesting. I had not noticed anything moving on that page. " Perhaps this is what was broken...  > I just tried on the mac, and I now see the flashing red light.  E In the case of an animated gif, isn't it just a case of overwriting a G bitmap with another ? Or do redraw a new bitmap over the previous one ? H (and then discard the previous one) ? Is that the clipping that occurs ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 04:17:36 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>6 Subject: Re: MOSAIC and DECW$SCN_CLIPLIST_AREA message2 Message-ID: <AZ8Yd.1504$l74.1078@news.cpqcorp.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message< news:1110477992.5b7a19022212afc48a72748356d6f49a@teranews... > FredK wrote:< > > On the VAX graphics, there was a lot of thought put into> > > allowing the graphics hardware to clip the drawing output.6 > > This makes the drawing code much simpler, and much4 > > less CPU intensive - and the VAX was a weak CPU. > I > Interesting comment when you compare VMS/VAX with MVS/270 machines. The H > 370s were "weak" and couldn't handle character IO and instead made theG > 3270 terminals work "offline" to offload much of the IO from the CPU. B > Meanwhile the VAX was able to support interactive terminals withH > character io etc. So it is interesting that you would consider the VAX > as a "weak CPU". >   G When the competition at the time was very fast RISC processors, yes VAX @ was weak.  Workstation competitors had outstanding benchmarks byI throwing the CPU at the problem, and their performance scaled as they got C faster CPUs and busses.  The VAX CPUs didn't have the horsepower to   do high performance 2D graphics.  7 > (Of course by today's standards, it is a no-brainer).  > 8 > > Also on many VAX graphics, offscreen memory was usedC > > for all kinds of things - the colormap, the cursor, clip lists, % > > fonts, and importantly - pixmaps.  > I > By offscreen memory, do you mean memory on the graphics card, or memory  > attached to the CPU ?   K By definition - on the graphics card.  Most graphics engines can't directly B "draw" to main memory, they at best can transfer between their ownH memory and main memory.  "Offscreen" memory is identical in all respects7 to the memory being displayed - it is just "offscreen".   F I will again note the exception to the rule.  The base graphics in theE VS4000 - the LCG - was a brilliant design.  It was actually a part of C the memory controller.  So it not only could "draw" to frame buffer @ memory, it could draw to *any* memory.  It's command fifo was in fact main memory.   G > Would VMS software have the ability to write to the memory in the SPX I > card with DMA or whatever, or was all transfers done between VAX memory J > and SPX memory through interrupts with the SPC card doing the transfer ? >   = IIRC DMA.  "Interrupts" don't transfer data.  The alternative . would be programmed I/O - which would be slow.   > = > > Most MIT derived servers also do not use offscreen memory 7 > > for Pixmaps.  Offscreen memory may be used for font  > F > Ok, this is a question which may or may not be related, but has been > bugging me for some time.  > 3 > What is a backing store in x-server terminology ?  >   A Say you have a window on the screen, and another window is popped H up over it.  The contents that are obscured are *lost* which is why yourD X11 application must be able to deal with exposure events and redrawH the exposed part of the window.  Save Unders will "save" the part of theB window that was obscured.  Backing store not only saves it, but ifJ something is drawn into it - the drawing will also be done to the obscured part of the window.   H How this is done?  Magic.  OK, so it's not magic.  The simplest way thisF is done is by creating a pixmap for the obscured region (or more oftenE the entire window), and executing any drawing command that intersects D with the drawable region into the pixmap.  When the obscured part ofF the window is subseqently exposed, the server copies the pixmap to theB obscured area - and the application isn't told about the exposure.  E VWS had guaranteed backing store.  X11 provides it only as a "hint" - G it is not guaranteed, even if you query and find that it is available - @ it "can" be withdrawn (not that I know of an implementation that does this).   @ A guaranteed backing store was not provided because the originalF authors (Gettys et al) believed it was too hard to do, and they wantedF the server to only do "simple" things and punt hard problems to higher layers of software.    > < > > Probably something you don't care about, since it's just > > this one website.  > H > Yeah, for now, it is just this one web site. but that page didn't seemG > overly complex and anything which fills up a low file with close to a A > 1000 blocks of the same message is something which concerns me.   G If it hurts when you do that... don't do that.  It sounds as though the E animation code is setting up a complex clipping region so it can only @ draw the differences.  Yup.  Simple and complex.  A contemporaryH server will do this by doing the clipping in software (throw CPU at it),G the SPX will do this by creating a clip list in the hardware - which is E great if the number isn't too large, and doesn't change rapidly - and * bad if the number is large and transitory.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:18:48 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>/ Subject: Re: new Itanium after Tukwila: Poulson + Message-ID: <42310008.A7D8769F@comcast.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > p > In article <1109987230.367785.7860@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> writes: > > D > > Easy. You take a frozen version of the VMS source. Hand it to an? > > engineer locked in a dark room and say "show we can do it". D > > Only after you have made the decision to go do you risk leaks byJ > > starting to synch the projects. But if do you make a final decision toI > > move forward I guess you announce it fairly quickly. I am reminded of J > > the (apocryphal?) mad VMS engineer who allegedly proved VMS could workI > > on Itanium before the actual port. I just hope something like this is  > > happening. > F >    Almost exactly the mistake made when DEC ported VMS to Alpha, and? >    a large part of why VAXen got left behind on new features.   4 Sounds amazingly like Emerald, or even Alpha Multia.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:55:25 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: OT: Labels now "microsoftized" B Message-ID: <1110495335.e67b0d6d64f34bb7609573835e28fd6d@teranews>  H Needed a new format of laser-compatible labels. Bought a packet of AveryD labels. But to my surprise, there is no longer a sizing sheet inside( that defines all the sizes, margins etc.   Called Avery's 800 number:  H lady: "why would you need that ? just download our Word templates, don't need anything else."  A me: But I don't use Word, I need to program this in Postscript...    lady: What's postscript ?   H You'd think a forms company that produces laser printer compatible forms would be aware of Postscript. K I think next time I will ask them to supply the sizes in Postscript points.   C Amazing isn't it ? That a forms manufacturer no longer thinks it is E useful to provide the form's sizes anymore, and assumes that EVERYONE # will just use that form from WORD ?   E I suggested that if they didn't include it in every packet, that this F information should at least be available on their web site (it isn't).F So, I had to take a good old fashioned ruler and a magnifying glass toC calculate the exact sizes of each margin etc. (Miraculously, with a E rulers with 1/32 of an inch, I was able to get the exact measurements : and the size was perfect from the first time it printed !)      G Amazing that those who have not yet succombed to the Microsoft hegemony < are made to feel like they are aliens from another universe.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:41:00 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>= Subject: Re: Selling an operational MicroVAX II if interested + Message-ID: <4231053C.A7BEB7D0@comcast.net>    Natch wrote: > " > Hope this isn't considered rude: > G > We're tossing out a DEC MicroVAX II with VMS 5.1 on it.  We're hoping F > to get a few bucks off of Ebay but if that fails we'll probably hand' > it to anyone willing to haul it away.  > 1 > Considerable amount of pictures in the auction.  > ? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5173614531   G Wow! That's a dynamite little world-box! Has dual diskette drives, TK50 6 and async. mux(es)! I wonder how much memory it has...  B According to the screenshots, the VMS version is V5.3-1, eh? Nice,E stable version, though SCSI support is very limited. That's bit newer 
 than V5.1.  : Don't need anymore VAX equipment myself, or I'd bid on it!   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2005 13:08:28 -0600. From: frey@encompasserve.org (Lurker at Large)5 Subject: Re: Sony vs HP: a comparison of CEO oustings 3 Message-ID: <2MD86OJ15A4s@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <3f119ada05030808525b73cf73@mail.gmail.com>, DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> writes: F >> And compensation comkittees should never accept contracts that makeN >> firing of a CEO more lucrative for the CEO than the CEO leaving by himself. > E > I'm not entirely sure I understand golden parachutes at all... They B > seem to serve nobody's interest but the person(s) who have them.  G 	I think I understand where they came from originally.  Companies were  O embarrassed when they had to fire anyone in upper management so they paid them 0K handsomely to quietly sneak out the door.  If an announcement was made, it 8N usually made it sound like the person left for a better job and there were no O hard feelings on either side.  Under no condition were they to admit they were d fired.' 	Of course this is only my speculation.eG 	Well, that seems to have changed.  Now they admit there were problems  N but they still give the golden parachute.  Company boards REALLY need to stop P doing that because it really looks like they're paying people for incompetence.    Sharon   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 14:31:20 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: Sony vs HP: a comparison of CEO oustings B Message-ID: <1110483059.315a12858b7b9187ce6a92f270f54147@teranews>   Lurker at Large wrote:O >         I think I understand where they came from originally.  Companies wereeP > embarrassed when they had to fire anyone in upper management so they paid themL > handsomely to quietly sneak out the door.  If an announcement was made, it  G If company A is in trouble and attracts the CEO from company B which isiF doing OK, the CEO is taking a big risk leaving his secure job going toA one which is less secure. If it doesn't work out , he wants to be F compensated since now he is out of a job, stained reputation and can't take his old secure job back.e  F And those hiring also do not want to provide any incentive for the CEO. to leave on his own when the going gets tough.  F Consider the accountant Curly at Worldcom. He sees his job ending realG soon now that he has sold off Worldcom/MCI. But the deal isn't done and4F MCI will still exist as a going concern for at least a year before allE the paperwork is done. Should he leave now to take the job at HP, MCIg@ would be stuck without a CEO to complete the paperwork, and theyE wouldn't have the time to fidn someone capable of concluding the deal ! who'd want such a short term job.s  E So CEO contracts have great disincentives for the person to leave for  personal reasons.   G Also, because a CEO has disincentive to leave his job for a better one,-G the new potential employer would have to compensate the new CEO for the(; loss revenus because he left without his board firring him.s  @ Lets say Carly had gotten an offer from  Bush to be head of someA department back in January. had Carly left on her own accord, shelB wouldn't have gotten the exec compensation package, and would have< expected the US government to give her an equivalent amount.  H But now that she is fired, at a time of the board's choosing, Carly getsG the big bucks, and can freely seek empoyment wherever she feels like itgF and the new employer doen't need to give her any compenmsation for her having left her HP job.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 18:27:11 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>k5 Subject: Re: Sony vs HP: a comparison of CEO oustings10 Message-ID: <1131lc0pedvvg75@corp.supernews.com>   Lurker at Large wrote:a > In article <3f119ada05030808525b73cf73@mail.gmail.com>, DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> writes:d > F >>>And compensation comkittees should never accept contracts that makeN >>>firing of a CEO more lucrative for the CEO than the CEO leaving by himself. >>E >>I'm not entirely sure I understand golden parachutes at all... TheybB >>seem to serve nobody's interest but the person(s) who have them. >  > I > 	I think I understand where they came from originally.  Companies were eQ > embarrassed when they had to fire anyone in upper management so they paid them yM > handsomely to quietly sneak out the door.  If an announcement was made, it /P > usually made it sound like the person left for a better job and there were no Q > hard feelings on either side.  Under no condition were they to admit they were i > fired.) > 	Of course this is only my speculation.-I > 	Well, that seems to have changed.  Now they admit there were problems  P > but they still give the golden parachute.  Company boards REALLY need to stop R > doing that because it really looks like they're paying people for incompetence.  >  > Sharon  H Some of the reasoning for 'golden parachutes' is similar to the 'poison @ pill' schemes to prevent hostile takeover of a company.  If you I institute special circumstances that make a takeover costly enough, then S" perhaps the takeover won't happen.  B Say you build up a company and take it public.  It's still 'your' I company in your mind.  To prevent a hostile takeover and dumping you out u8 of 'your own company', you might set up such roadblocks.  H As for hiring a CEO, I see no reason for such a person to have any such I protections.  They've done nothing to 'earn' such protection.  It should  C be, here's your salary, do good and you'll get a bonus, do bad and (
 you're fired.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:37:13 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>>5 Subject: Re: Sony vs HP: a comparison of CEO oustingsm, Message-ID: <6bidnQUJ_4dZm6zfRVn-jg@igs.net>   Dave Froble wrote: >  <snip> >a >oD > As for hiring a CEO, I see no reason for such a person to have anyD > such protections.  They've done nothing to 'earn' such protection.F > It should be, here's your salary, do good and you'll get a bonus, do > bad and you're fired.a    I Whoa David. You expect the big fish to be treated the same as the "little-* people"? That just isn't the American way.   --. HP - Where Integrity means "No EV8 for You!!!" .2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:49:19 -07004. From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc..com> Subject: Re: Tape Init. Message-ID: <4x1Yd.50$Lb7.535@news.uswest.net>  G The drive formats, writes, and reads new tapes just fine.  The tape hadeJ previously been formatted on VMS (same drive), but we had forgotten to useJ /media=compaction.  We always init tapes with all three /override options.   Here's a test runf  ; SYSTEM>init /media=compaction/over=(ACC,EXP) mkb500: DR0BCK ! %INIT-F-DRVERR, fatal drive errornA SYSTEM>init /media=compaction/over=(ACC,EXP)/erase mkb500: DR0BCK ! %INIT-F-DRVERR, fatal drive errorl SYSTEM>k  I I used this same drive with another tape and the second command to change L the compaction on another tape yesterday.  The tape in the drive worked fineK until I put it in a Windows Server running Veritas 8.6 and performed a longoI erase on it.  I did that because I couldn't get the two commands above to,J work.  If this was a single incident, I'd toss the tape, but this has beenJ an ongoing issue with trying to init tapes that had previously been erasedI by Veritas.  Also, before you ask, it doesn't seem to matter which one ofa our five DDS3 drives I use.0   Mike.G    > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message' news:TsO0G0l2mMAn@malvm7.mala.bc.ca....4/ > In article <vP_Xd.9$lf4.354@news.uswest.net>, 2 > "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc..com> writes: >dG > > I get a device error everytime.  I have even tried using the /ERASEh switch.f > >  >CK >    If you get a "device error" there's a good chance the problem is a badRJ > tape or a flaky tape drive, but posting the error text would be helpful. >t/ >    Have you tried using INIT/OVER=(EXP,ACC) ?w >w >    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2005 13:05:05 -0800' From: "DL Phillips" <whohe@whoever.com>-- Subject: Re: UPS/Power conditioning questionsaB Message-ID: <1110488705.178646.74810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   tadamsmar@yahoo.com wrote: > jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote:iG > > Also forgot to mention; APC (and possibly other vendors) make power B > > line conditioning equipment that is less expensive than a UPS. GivenrF > > your desires that might be a better fit.  The APC units are calledE > > "Line-R" and come in 300, 600, and 1200VA units.  A couple of our,A > > customers use them and they appear to work well but I have nos direct > > experience.e >dC > I am going too look into that too.  I sent a message to APC salese( > support after studying their web site. >u@ > My hardware guy thinks a UPS may be better for us than a surge@ > protector.  Sometimes we lose a phase of power, and we are notC > yet sure what is needed to keep that from damaging our equipment.. > A > When we lose a phase, the lights start blinking like in a disco05 > and I "do the hustle" to turn my Alphas off ASAP :)  >j  C Maybe you've already seen this? It's a rant about the BP1100 that'sg+ been running over the last couple of years.   6 < http://www.elsewhere.org/gm/archives/00000393.html >  @ The 1100 is discontinued so these things could have been sittingD someplace in a warehouse for who knows how long. Looks like the only# Pro still in production is the 280.t  D Someone else in this thread made a comment about UPSes not providingF surge protection. Well, some do and some don't. The APC web site says:   ##D The Back-UPS Pro is designed to provide high-end power protection of? business workstations and stand-alone computers. Boost and TrimeE Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR) automatically corrects the deepestrF brownouts and overvoltage conditions without using the battery thereby: preserving battery power for times when its really needed. ##  D Is this *heavy-duty**industrial strength* protection like what you'dF have an electrician do for your entire building and wiring system? No.G But it does provide more protection than running straight off the line.(   TIFWIW, YMMV    -Doug   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Mar 2005 13:13:05 -0800 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com- Subject: Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions C Message-ID: <1110489185.847436.150880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>e  E Sorry, missed the question earlier.  I haven't been home to catch the G long powerfails, but my best estimate for the BackUPS Pro 1100VA was 18jG minutes for the AS600, BA364, a small fan, and a volt-on-a-rope networkdB switch.  Based on the time my network camera (not on backup power)C stopped sending images to the last operator log timestamp (once persG minute from one particular process I'm debugging).  There is no monitor : on the UPS, and it would have been turned off in any case.  B > But, I wonder if there is any hardware preservation advantage toE > having the Alphas do a shutdown and power off as opposed to letting  > the UPS run out of juice?s  D On older Alphas without soft power control, I guess it depends on ifE the UPS cuts power cleanly or not.  On newer Alphas with soft power ItG have little doubt its better for the machine to shut down and perform au soft power down.   Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 00:02:02 -0500   From: w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com>- Subject: Re: UPS/Power conditioning questionst+ Message-ID: <4231264A.E3BEBEAC@hotmail.com>r  =   Take a $3 power strip.  Add some $0.10 components.  Sell it-= for a massive price increase of $15 or $50.  Then make a halfa> truth claim about surge protection.  That same circuit is also< the protection inside the plug-in UPS.  Protection only from> one type of transient.  As demonstrated here, others will then8 assume it is protection from *all* types of transients. = Assumption made because quoted manufacturer uses half-truths.h  <   Plug-in UPS does not provide effective protection.  Citing8 quote has no credibility.  It provides no numbers and no7 science facts.   Of the five power problems - blackout,'> brownout, harmonics, noise, and transients - which one does it; claim to protect from?  Missing are important facts.  Those 2 missing facts would expose ineffective protection.  >   How does one identify an ineffective protector - power strip: or UPS?  1) No dedicated connection to earth ground and 2)= manufacturer avoids all mention of earthing.   What does that.9 APC forget to discuss? No earth ground means no effectived0 protection - which applies to all plug-in UPSes.  9   Real world protector companies discuss earth ground ...r2 extensively.  Why?  A surge protector is not surge9 protection.  Surge protector and surge protection are twoe8 different components of a surge protection 'system'.  An= effective 'system' always requires surge protection.  But theM; 'system' does not always need a surge protector.  What doesu5 the surge protector (ie inside a UPS) do?  Connects a6= transient to surge protection. But (just like in that plug-in = UPS recommendation), if the surge protectors does not connecth2 to surge protection, then no effective protection.  5   Surge protection is the single point earth ground. o< Effective surge protectors (that cost about $1 per protected: appliance) are called 'whole house' protectors.  They make6 (and notice the important numbers) a less than 10 foot> connection to surge protection - earth ground.  Some effective> protectors are sold in Home Depot (Intermatic IG1240RC) and in< Lowes (Cutler Hammer and GE).  But again, that APC product? 9 Well good luck finding an APC product that are part of ana< effective protection 'system'.  Some APC products do provide> that earthing connection.   Most do not.  And that recommended8 UPS for transient protection?  Only from transients that7 typically do not exist.  IOW ineffective protection was36 erroneously recommended by others - as demonstrated by9 electrical principles well proven more than 60 years ago.-  =   BTW, you seem to feel that a computer connected to AC mainsr< via a UPS is somehow isolated from those mains.  Again, a so8 common myth.  When the typical plug-in UPS is in battery> backup mode, then computer is connected directly to AC mains? < Where is the protection?  Is that relay inside the UPS going8 to protect computer hardware?  Of course not.  They just forgot to mention that part.  =   The OP asked for power protection;  not a solution to poweri7 interruption.  The UPS recommendation is only for powera; interruption AND violates those two symptoms of ineffectiver; protectors.  Listed were five types of power problems.  Forb< effective hardware protection, a less expensive solution (at= about $1 per protected appliance) is also the vastly superiorn< solution.  Posted previously are solutions even sold in Home9 Depot and Lowes.  The UPS recommendation is bogus - to be > polite because it is promoted by technical distortion and half5 truths.  APC - like Monster Cable -  is not a seriousn< manufacturer of transient protection.  Why do you think they> never mention earthing?  They fear you might learn :  no earth% ground means no effective protection.d   DL Phillips wrote:E > Maybe you've already seen this? It's a rant about the BP1100 that's/- > been running over the last couple of years.t > 8 > < http://www.elsewhere.org/gm/archives/00000393.html > > B > The 1100 is discontinued so these things could have been sittingF > someplace in a warehouse for who knows how long. Looks like the only% > Pro still in production is the 280.e > F > Someone else in this thread made a comment about UPSes not providingH > surge protection. Well, some do and some don't. The APC web site says: >  > ##F > The Back-UPS Pro is designed to provide high-end power protection ofA > business workstations and stand-alone computers. Boost and Trim)G > Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR) automatically corrects the deepestGH > brownouts and overvoltage conditions without using the battery thereby< > preserving battery power for times when its really needed. > ## > F > Is this *heavy-duty**industrial strength* protection like what you'dH > have an electrician do for your entire building and wiring system? No.I > But it does provide more protection than running straight off the line.i >  > TIFWIW, YMMV >  >  -Doug   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:20:33 +1300s6 From: Martin Hunt <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz>( Subject: VFC Print file carriage control8 Message-ID: <pq2231djtue5krs813ro39f8q0bb1sojr2@4ax.com>  F We have some files which have generated by a Cobol program - they haveF a record format of "VFC, 2 byte header" and record atributes of "Print file carriage control". C We want to ftp these files to a non-VMS system, and print them from D there. The VFC part, including carriage control, lines to skip, etc,7 gets stripped off, so the files do not print correctly.e  A Is there a utility available, to convert these files to somethingi8 (e.g., Stream) which can be safely ftp'ed to the server?  F I have already experimented with using an TCP/IP LPD print queue to doD the conversion, which I could probably use if necessary, but it is a lilttle messy.   ---o Martin Hunt  Systems Administratoro Fairfax New Zealand Limitedf
 Wellington New Zealandp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 23:25:49 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@yeksavvy.com>s, Subject: Re: VFC Print file carriage controlB Message-ID: <1110515149.6ad8f78dc1de063b3d4e74504bdf48c2@teranews>   Martin Hunt wrote:C > Is there a utility available, to convert these files to something.: > (e.g., Stream) which can be safely ftp'ed to the server?  D Yes, convert would be able to convert the VCF files to normal streamO files and convert the specials characters into the right cr/lf/ff combinations.   H You'll need to create an FDL file for the target format (EDIT/FDL can do it for instance) and thene  9 convert/fdl=mydefalt.fdl  thevfcfile.lis myoutputfile.lis/   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.139 ************************