1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 14 Mar 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 146       Contents: Re: Audio on openVMS 8.2 Alpha. CA Opens Job Scheduler beta on OpenVMS Itanium  Re: Change MAC address on DE500?- Re: Changing Pathworks transport from NetBEUI  Configure issue  Re: DIFF/IGNORE=WHITE_SPACE  Freeware goes bust! & FW: DECC : toupper/tolower performance* Re: FW: DECC : toupper/tolower performance GET MORE FOR YOUR BUCK Graphics Device for SIMH Re: Graphics Device for SIMH Re: Graphics Device for SIMH Re: Graphics Device for SIMH- Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question - Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question - Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question  Re: History of the VMS shark Re: History of the VMS shark RE: History of the VMS shark Re: History of the VMS shark RE: History of the VMS shark Re: History of the VMS shark% Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % RE: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % RE: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO C Job Opp Phoenix Arizona Enterprise Systems Admin -- Legato ** SAN** 5 Re: Mozilla suite freezing; whats to become of HPSWB? 5 Re: Mozilla suite freezing; whats to become of HPSWB?  Relative Record Number Re: Relative Record Number( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T SCSI Controller for XP-1000  Re: SCSI Controller for XP-1000  Re: SCSI Controller for XP-1000  Re: SCSI Controller for XP-1000 F Re: Transfering Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help pleaseP Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help    please pleasP Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help    please pleasP Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help   please please TSM questions?$ Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions# Re: VFC Print file carriage control 2 VMS DCL program sometimes freeze in a pipe command6 Re: VMS DCL program sometimes freeze in a pipe command) [OpenVMS V8.2, ASOVMS V7.3A4] Supported ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:26:48 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>' Subject: Re: Audio on openVMS 8.2 Alpha 2 Message-ID: <cXiZd.1605$nU7.1020@news.cpqcorp.net>  H OK.  A new version of MMOV for Alpha V8.2 is being done.  Don't know the> exact schedule.  The drivers are updated along with some other changes/fixes.  5 "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote in message + news:FRgZd.1591$IN7.436@news.cpqcorp.net... A > V8.2 needs new device drivers (data structure changes in system  structures),K > so you need a new version of MMOV (which is where the driver comes from).  > K > I don't know when/if a new version of MMOV for Alpha is being done.  I'll  > check. >  > < > "Keith Lewis" <spud_g00@thundermaker.net> wrote in message> > news:1110589408.191517.73530@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...K > > As a matter of fact the upgrade did replace SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT with an F > > empty one.  But then restoring the good one and re-installing MMOV > > didn't fix the problem.  > > J > > I got e-mail from HP saying there's a MMOV update coming, so I'll wait
 > > for that.  > > K > > Traditional CD audio uses an analog connection from the CD drive to the I > > sound card.  But I don't see any options for output source on the PWS H > > ESS device under MMOV$AUDIOCONTROL, so maybe the only way is through
 > > software.  > >  > > Have you tried XMCD?+ > > http://decwarch.free.fr/audio.html#XMCD  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:42:22 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 7 Subject: CA Opens Job Scheduler beta on OpenVMS Itanium R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594F86@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   All,  - The following is fyi (just passing it along):   7 http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Collateral.asp?CID=3D67163 > "CA is pleased to announce the opening of registration for the9 Unicenter(r) Job Management for OpenVMS I64 Beta Program.   F As a participant in the beta program, you have the opportunity to gainE early access to many of its features and platform support, including: 3 - Intel Itanium 2 based HP Integrity Server support % - Mixed architecture interoperability % - Enterprise-wide OpenVMS job control  - Automated job execution ( - Management of complex job dependencies5 - Load balancing across multiple systems in a cluster  - Real-time job monitoring3 - Automatic error recovery and retry of failed jobs  - Flexible calendarsG - Seamless integration with Unicenter(r) Network and Systems Management    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:57:50 -0500 2 From: "Jonathan Boswell" <jsb.NOSP@M.cdrh.fda.gov>) Subject: Re: Change MAC address on DE500? 5 Message-ID: <AgkZd.2794$Ny6.4954@mencken.net.nih.gov>   0 "Tom Crabtree" <spam@sucks.com> wrote in message) news:DqSdnYOXudP4V6zfRVn-iQ@sunset.net... D > Just realized I gave the wrong email addy, here's the correct one: > tccrab*no_spam*@sunset.net  H Last Friday that was working, but as of Monday morning it bounces with a% "451 %TCPIP-E-SMTP_NOSUCHUSER" error.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:18:58 -0500 $ From: "PEN" <paul.nuneznosp@mhp.com>6 Subject: Re: Changing Pathworks transport from NetBEUI, Message-ID: <d14h23$okp$1@hplms2.hpl.hp.com>   Hi Guy,   4 "Guy Morris" <guy@sitevision.co.nz> wrote in message= news:1110758225.316104.280740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... 
 > Hi Paul, >  > $pwshow gives: >  [snip] > Guy. >   > None of the ADMIN commands will work if PATHWORKS is down :o).  G With the PATHWORKS server stopped you can view the System event log by   doing:  # $ @sys$startup:pwrk$define_commands  $ pwstop $ elfread -d system   ( See if there's anything helpful there...  B Also, how many clients do you have the server configured for (in $H ADMIN/CONFIG)?  I see you're running the license server (pwrk$license_s)H which will consume/reserve some 22 client session slots for its own use.J If you set the number of clients below 20 try bumping it up to 40 or more.   HTH,     Paul   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 07:33:49 -0800# From: "Bobby" <colemanr7@yahoo.com>  Subject: Configure issueC Message-ID: <1110814429.555871.171290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   = We use a specialty application that installs a command called A "configuration", or "config" for short, to access a number of its C features.  When I recently applied the newest patches to the system F (7.3-1 with cumulative update 5 plus some others) this command stoppedD working.  When looking at help I noticed a command called "configureE galaxy" that I've never used before.  Is it possible that the updates A somehow reconfigured the "configuration" command to point to this # program?  If so... how do I fix it?   % I really appreciate the help/support.  Bobby    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 05:37:54 -0800  From: "Barry" <dysert@gmail.com>$ Subject: Re: DIFF/IGNORE=WHITE_SPACEC Message-ID: <1110807474.140818.133690@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   7 Thank you, Guy.  I think this will be of great benefit!    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 06:01:48 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com  Subject: Freeware goes bust!B Message-ID: <1110808908.148195.96000@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  8 Mozilla is the latest example ... ver. 1.8 cancelled and4 commits to firefox which has a million bugs that the4 author says he can't get help with and will quit ...  3 Software should be bought by reputible companies so 4 when you need support, someone is there on the other4 side of the phone ... Bank One JP Morgan Chase found0 this out recently with a buggy version of GPG on Slowaris ...   YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!   5 I think the guys who write this stuff finally figured 5 out if they are going to work, they might as well get  paid for their skills ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:40:24 +1100 6 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au>/ Subject: FW: DECC : toupper/tolower performance X Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE0D@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C52871.771B14CC . Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   L O.K., I'm no longer clear to whom I am replying (the OP).  I think JF was t= he OP, but could be wrong.  L If the subject says all of his question, how could this ever be a bottlenec=1 k? -- unless this is all his program is doing :-(     Remember Knuth's famous comment.  L I adjudged an area of code to be our bottleneck in a large electrical trans=L ient stability program.  So I was looking to optimise that area of code.  R=L unning PCA showed me a totally different routine that did very little, but =L was called incessantly  -- used the Fortran 90/95 syntax to CONTAINS and th=L e compiler in-lined it and run-time went down by 25%.  The overheads of a C= ALL.  L Mind you, I find PCA on the Alpha a lot harder to understand than on VAX, i=6 n respect of which lines in a routine are problematic.  L Saliently, in my area I do not see any performance in toupper/tolower code =L relevant.  I also find it hard to envisage an application where that could =; be a bottleneck.  Fortran/C should not make any difference.   L Forget the hangs, my vague memory was that the OP was originally talking ab=L out a straight ASCI conversion, but then moved on in subsequent posts to th=L e multi-national character set.  A translation table should be pretty trivi= al here.  L Since it's 30 years since I seriously spoke/wrote French (living in France)=L , it is only an IIRC that lowercase accented vowels did not have to be acce=L nted in uppercase?  Well, the speaking didn't matter, we can't tell if we a=! re speaking lower/upper/mixed :-)    Regards, Paddy     -----Original Message-----( From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com] Sent: Fri 3/4/2005 4:02 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com / Subject: Re: DECC : toupper/tolower performance  =20 0 On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 12:06:10 -0500, JF Mezei =20% <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Tom Linden wrote: I >> However If I login directly and run the same program in a DECWindow it  >> prints the following  >> and hangs >> >> FREJA> run asc  >>$ >> 123456789:;<=3D>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO2 >> PQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ >> >> INTERRUPT > C > It is normal for it to hang since DECterm understands the control H > coharacters between 127 and 160. (eccept for 4 or 5 in there which are$ > not mapped to a control sequence). > I > Consider the <CSI> character at decimal value 156, there si also DCS at H > 144 and I think ST which are all part of escape sequences that DECterm% > would expect to be in valid format.  > E > postscript fonts use 144-159 for special characters (mostlty varous  > accents without any letters).  > H > For instance 155 maps to the cedilla that would otherwise go under the > c. (=E7 is at 231) > K > Your program should only try to output from 32 to 126 and from 160 to =20  > 255.  J I know all that.  You still don't understand.  All the program does is =20 display J the character set, but note they are different in the two different ways IK demonstrated.  So my question is there a logical or other means to define =   theJ character set, such that when this program is run it will display that =20	 character  set.  I hope that is clear.      --=20 C Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/       G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged @ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 ? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************     ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C52871.771B14CC - Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>L <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-= 1"> K <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0"> 5 <TITLE>FW: DECC : toupper/tolower performance</TITLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY>) <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->   L <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>O.K., I'm no longer clear to whom I am replying (the OP).=5 &nbsp; I think JF was the OP, but could be wrong.<BR>  <BR>L If the subject says all of his question, how could this ever be a bottlenec=5 k? -- unless this is all his program is doing :-(<BR>  <BR>$ Remember Knuth's famous comment.<BR> <BR>L I adjudged an area of code to be our bottleneck in a large electrical trans=L ient stability program.&nbsp; So I was looking to optimise that area of cod=L e.&nbsp; Running PCA showed me a totally different routine that did very li=L ttle, but was called incessantly&nbsp; -- used the Fortran 90/95 syntax to =L CONTAINS and the compiler in-lined it and run-time went down by 25%.&nbsp; = The overheads of a CALL.<BR> <BR>L Mind you, I find PCA on the Alpha a lot harder to understand than on VAX, i=: n respect of which lines in a routine are problematic.<BR> <BR>L Saliently, in my area I do not see any performance in toupper/tolower code =L relevant.&nbsp; I also find it hard to envisage an application where that c=I ould be a bottleneck.&nbsp; Fortran/C should not make any difference.<BR>  <BR>L Forget the hangs, my vague memory was that the OP was originally talking ab=L out a straight ASCI conversion, but then moved on in subsequent posts to th=L e multi-national character set.&nbsp; A translation table should be pretty = trivial here.<BR>  <BR>L Since it's 30 years since I seriously spoke/wrote French (living in France)=L , it is only an IIRC that lowercase accented vowels did not have to be acce=L nted in uppercase?&nbsp; Well, the speaking didn't matter, we can't tell if=*  we are speaking lower/upper/mixed :-)<BR> <BR> Regards, Paddy<BR> <BR> <BR> -----Original Message-----<BR>L From: Tom Linden [<A HREF=3D"mailto:tom@kednos.com">mailto:tom@kednos.com</= A>]<BR>  Sent: Fri 3/4/2005 4:02 AM<BR> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<BR> 3 Subject: Re: DECC : toupper/tolower performance<BR>  <BR>6 On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 12:06:10 -0500, JF Mezei&nbsp;<BR>/ &lt;jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com&gt; wrote:<BR>  <BR> &gt; Tom Linden wrote:<BR>L &gt;&gt; However If I login directly and run the same program in a DECWindo= w it<BR>! &gt;&gt; prints the following<BR>  &gt;&gt; and hangs<BR> &gt;&gt;<BR> &gt;&gt; FREJA&gt; run asc<BR> &gt;&gt;<BR>4 &gt;&gt; 123456789:;&lt;=3D&gt;?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO<BR>< &gt;&gt; PQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~<BR> &gt;&gt;<BR> &gt;&gt; INTERRUPT<BR> &gt;<BR>J &gt; It is normal for it to hang since DECterm understands the control<BR>L &gt; coharacters between 127 and 160. (eccept for 4 or 5 in there which are= <BR>+ &gt; not mapped to a control sequence).<BR>  &gt;<BR>L &gt; Consider the &lt;CSI&gt; character at decimal value 156, there si also=  DCS at<BR> L &gt; 144 and I think ST which are all part of escape sequences that DECterm= <BR>, &gt; would expect to be in valid format.<BR> &gt;<BR>L &gt; postscript fonts use 144-159 for special characters (mostlty varous<BR>& &gt; accents without any letters).<BR> &gt;<BR>L &gt; For instance 155 maps to the cedilla that would otherwise go under the= <BR> &gt; c. (=E7 is at 231)<BR>  &gt;<BR>L &gt; Your program should only try to output from 32 to 126 and from 160 to&=	 nbsp;<BR> 
 &gt; 255.<BR>  <BR>L I know all that.&nbsp; You still don't understand.&nbsp; All the program do= es is&nbsp;<BR>  display<BR> L the character set, but note they are different in the two different ways I<= BR> L demonstrated.&nbsp; So my question is there a logical or other means to def=
 ine&nbsp;<BR>  the<BR> L character set, such that when this program is run it will display that&nbsp= ;<BR> 
 character<BR> $ set.&nbsp; I hope that is clear.<BR> <BR> <BR> --<BR>L Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: <A HREF=3D"http://www.opera.com/=% m2/">http://www.opera.com/m2/</A><BR>  <BR> </FONT>  </P>   <FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>  <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  <BR>G "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged<BR> B and confidential information intended only for the use of the <BR>F addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of <BR>G this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise<BR> F the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, <BR>; distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.<BR>  <BR>E If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid <BR> E immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the <BR> A individual sender except where the sender expressly and with <BR> G authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses<BR> B virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses<BR>  contained in any attachment.<BR> <BR>@ Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now<BR>( firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"<BR> <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  </FONT>  </BODY>  </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C52871.771B14CC--    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:46:09 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: FW: DECC : toupper/tolower performance B Message-ID: <1110818763.cac916fb694dc6dccd915c8318debd80@teranews>   > O'Brien Paddy wrote:  E > Since it's 30 years since I seriously spoke/wrote French (living in D > France), it is only an IIRC that lowercase accented vowels did notF > have to be accented in uppercase?  Well, the speaking didn't matter,8 > we can't tell if we are speaking lower/upper/mixed :-)  A BTW, please find some way to not post in HTML from your Microsoft  machine. I knwo it is possible.   @ In terms of accented charavcters, the lack of uppercase accentedH charaters was due to limitations in mechanical typewriters. But with theG advent of computers, uppercase accented characters did become possible, D and this was included in the DEC multi national character set of theK arly 1980s and adopted as ISO-LATIN1 and has since become quite common use.   H It is even odd today when you see non-accented uppercase characters when! you know they should be accented.    Biscuit SAL -> salted cookie  Bisciot SALE -> dirty cooky.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:45:08 -0500  From: ml@aol.com Subject: GET MORE FOR YOUR BUCK ( Message-ID: <d14brf$2knf@bee.cs.kiev.ua>   The biggest store online   www.thebuckstore.com http://www.thebuckstore.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 07:32:04 -0800' From: "ClaudeVMS" <claudevms@attbi.com> ! Subject: Graphics Device for SIMH C Message-ID: <1110814324.067148.218600@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   1 I use simh to emulate a VAX. It's pretty amazing. ? I have some legacy software that runs on a VAXstation 3100 38M. ; I have the source code and noticed it uses UIS and accesses D the device _VAA0: via the logical name SYS$WORKSTATION. The softwareE takes over the entire display when the application executes. When the B application does not execute the VWS software allows the developerA access to the operating system. Has anyone seen a "model" for the G graphics device for this workstation? The simh web page refers to how a C "model" for the ethernet card is used by the simulator and a packet B sniffer software is used to place the physical card in promiscuousG mode. I think a graphics model for the _VAA0: device could be developed  with the memory D map for the physical device modeled for the simh and using OpenGL to9 control the actual hardware on the host operating system.    Comments and opinions welcome,  
 -ClaudeVMS   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:24:50 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>% Subject: Re: Graphics Device for SIMH 1 Message-ID: <mViZd.1604$OT7.794@news.cpqcorp.net>   @ Trying to model the GPX would not be a task that I would try and tackle.   C Does the application actually directly write drawing packets to the F driver?  Or does it use UIS calls?  If it uses UIS, then try to dig up? a copy of UISX (which was sold to Touch Technologies Inc) which 7 implements the UIS programming interface on top of X11.     2 "ClaudeVMS" <claudevms@attbi.com> wrote in message= news:1110814324.067148.218600@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... 3 > I use simh to emulate a VAX. It's pretty amazing. A > I have some legacy software that runs on a VAXstation 3100 38M. = > I have the source code and noticed it uses UIS and accesses F > the device _VAA0: via the logical name SYS$WORKSTATION. The softwareG > takes over the entire display when the application executes. When the D > application does not execute the VWS software allows the developerC > access to the operating system. Has anyone seen a "model" for the I > graphics device for this workstation? The simh web page refers to how a E > "model" for the ethernet card is used by the simulator and a packet D > sniffer software is used to place the physical card in promiscuousI > mode. I think a graphics model for the _VAA0: device could be developed  > with the memory F > map for the physical device modeled for the simh and using OpenGL to; > control the actual hardware on the host operating system.  >   > Comments and opinions welcome, >  > -ClaudeVMS >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 09:44:46 -0800' From: "ClaudeVMS" <claudevms@attbi.com> % Subject: Re: Graphics Device for SIMH B Message-ID: <1110822286.452567.43560@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   BRAVO!!!  = That's why I asked the question! I didn't know about the UISX 
 product!!!     Thanks,   	 ClaudeVMS    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:20:59 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>% Subject: Re: Graphics Device for SIMH 1 Message-ID: <fCkZd.1623$sY7.257@news.cpqcorp.net>   @ Don't cheer too loudly until you can scrounge up a copy of UISX.( I don't even know if TTI still sells it.    2 "ClaudeVMS" <claudevms@attbi.com> wrote in message< news:1110822286.452567.43560@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
 > BRAVO!!! > ? > That's why I asked the question! I didn't know about the UISX  > product!!! >  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > ClaudeVMS  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:08:28 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk6 Subject: Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question) Message-ID: <d145ss$sq2$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   R In article <naudneZhzpdiZanfRVn-rg@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >Tim Llewellyn wrote:  >> Main, Kerry wrote:  >> >>>  > I >I was talking with a friend yesterday about a project he has underway to H >rationalize the systems they have deployed in his rather large company,= >including e-mail / groupware. He's in charge of the project.  >  >What do they use?L >Microsoft Exchange with Microsoft Outlook clients....about fifteen thousand	 >of them.  > J >So I think to myself...."Self, how about Communigate Pro w/Groupware on a' >VMS cluster...sounds pretty reliable."  > M >Then it hits me....no PC virus scanners with any sort of committed future to K >run on VMS....ditto for spam tagging/deleting/cleaning at the server - and C >by committed I mean something that has a development path ahead of A >it....something other than already having been announce to be in  >maintenance-only mode.  >    Anti-spam -   " Precisemail anti-spam from Process  9 I don't think you can fault Process on commitment to VMS.    see   0 http://www.process.com/precisemail/antispam.html    M For anti-virus just having Sophos Sweep rather than a choice of products is a M possible problem. The focus for pretty much any anti-virus vendor is going to M be Microsoft OSs since that is where the main problem is. However VMS is NOT  C on their list of OSs which have a date for when Sophos development   would be stopped   see   + http://www.sophos.com/support/timeline.html          L One problem in the past has been integrating Sophos with VMS mail solutions.K Sophos would integrate easily with PMDF but not easily (or possibly at all) ! with other mail solutions on VMS. L The latest beta of Precisemail anti-spam includes an anti-virus module whichK works with Sophos. Hence you can now easily use Precisemail, Sophos and say 
 UCX's SMTP   see   1 http://www.process.com/precisemail/pmas22beta.asp         
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University    J >My friend wants some AV/spam cleaner running centrally with full *vendor*H >support even though they also run stuff at the PC level, because havingH >something cleaning/disinfecting centrally reduces the number of support >calls they have to deal with. > L >Too bad, because my friend was *very* receptive to the idea of scalability,K >clustering, and reliability for their servers, understanding full well the L >people cost and downtime costs they currently experience with Windows-basedI >servers. Guess they'll just go with their Windows/Exchange servers being B >remotely administered from India to cut costs in lieu of boosting. >reliability and cutting costs running on VMS. >  > + >****************************************** ' >Drink the Microsoft Kool Aid, says HP. # >Drink the Linux Kool Aid, says HP. L >We don't want to sell you something that will actually work, says HP - we'dM >really rather sell you consulting and hand-holding services for that crap we  >foist upon you. >  >-- 0 >OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system2 >                     with the dwindling ISV base. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:24:07 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation questionB Message-ID: <1110821038.9d8db8f6a4b813593e9362ddef645f9f@teranews>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: 
 > Anti-spam -  > $ > Precisemail anti-spam from Process > ; > I don't think you can fault Process on commitment to VMS.     C What would be needed is a consitant long term set of press releases E announcing that their product has been updated to include filters for @ this week's strain of Microsoft viri, and hopefully do the press releases before Symantec.   E Potential customers need to see that Precisemail is a really complete E and up-to-date and "alive" piece of software that is state fo the art E and build to run today, npt built to run in the 1980s, which was what 5 most VMS sosftware is really about in terms of image.   H People shy away from VMS because they don't see it as a quickly evolvingG environment that keeps up with today's changes.  They still see VMS as  M character cell OS from the 1980s and don't see big news about updates to VMS.   D The fact that HP is 200% mum about decwidnows in the roadmap doesn't0 help kill the myth that VMS is an antiquated OS.  D If HP got together with Process for VMS marketing, good things would really happen.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:34:08 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question, Message-ID: <UbednbjX74KAVqjfRVn-3A@igs.net>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: ; > In article <naudneZhzpdiZanfRVn-rg@igs.net>, "John Smith"  > <a@nonymous.com> writes: >> Tim Llewellyn wrote:  >>> Main, Kerry wrote: >>>  >>>> >>? >> I was talking with a friend yesterday about a project he has G >> underway to rationalize the systems they have deployed in his rather E >> large company, including e-mail / groupware. He's in charge of the  >> project.  >> >> What do they use?E >> Microsoft Exchange with Microsoft Outlook clients....about fifteen  >> thousand of them. >>G >> So I think to myself...."Self, how about Communigate Pro w/Groupware . >> on a VMS cluster...sounds pretty reliable." >>E >> Then it hits me....no PC virus scanners with any sort of committed F >> future to run on VMS....ditto for spam tagging/deleting/cleaning at< >> the server - and by committed I mean something that has aF >> development path ahead of it....something other than already having0 >> been announce to be in maintenance-only mode. >> > 
 > Anti-spam -  > $ > Precisemail anti-spam from Process > ; > I don't think you can fault Process on commitment to VMS.      I agree on that.       >  > see  > 2 > http://www.process.com/precisemail/antispam.html >  > A > For anti-virus just having Sophos Sweep rather than a choice of ? > products is a possible problem. The focus for pretty much any  > anti-virus vendor is going to G > be Microsoft OSs since that is where the main problem is. However VMS  > is NOTD > on their list of OSs which have a date for when Sophos development > would be stopped >  > see  > - > http://www.sophos.com/support/timeline.html  >  >  >  > C > One problem in the past has been integrating Sophos with VMS mail G > solutions. Sophos would integrate easily with PMDF but not easily (or  > possibly at all)# > with other mail solutions on VMS. A > The latest beta of Precisemail anti-spam includes an anti-virus > > module which works with Sophos. Hence you can now easily use > Precisemail, Sophos and say  > UCX's SMTP >  > see  > 3 > http://www.process.com/precisemail/pmas22beta.asp     F The real issue is lack of choice because there isn't volume in the VMSK market. Stalker can use three AV plugins from different vendors but none of  those run on VMS.   G So a Stalker/VMS-based mail solution will run fine on the server but do 2 nothing for the AV issues the PC users experience.  F PDMF may be a solution, and if so, it's about the only one. Too littleK choice for some organizations - no leverage in negotiations, no competition K to improve at a rapid rate - I'm not knocking Process about this but rather L making a general statement about lack of competition and the pace of product improvement.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:48:08 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>% Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark , Message-ID: <39kqcjF639uq4U1@individual.net>   Neil Rieck wrote:   2 > "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com> wrote in message 3 > news:Xns9617ECFE4A59Adcovmsrox@212.100.160.126...  > [...snip...] > L >>You missed the Compaq logo.  It should come up just long enough for you toA >>recognise it then be replaced by a DECWindows error screen. :-)  >> >>Doc. >  >  > Ha. Good one. M > Maybe I should change mine to fade from digital to HP to question mark. :-)  >   H A couple of years ago my boss had an animation for a presentation which H had the Compaq logo pushing the digital one off the screen, followed by I the hp logo doing the same. It was quite effective (and a shame I didn't  
 grab a copy).    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:30:34 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>M% Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark ( Message-ID: <opsnmqg8fhzgicya@hyrrokkin>  J On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:01:08 +0200, Mike Rechtman <rechtman@tzora.co.il>   wrote:   > Tom Linden wrote:rK >> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:32:29 -0500, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>   r	 >> wrote:  >> >>>WE >>> "Mike Rechtman" <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com> wrote in messager$ >>> news:42345451.14CC6B84@hp.com... >>>D >>> [...snip...] >>>p >>>>K >>>> goto http://www.polarhome.com:763/~miker/ and hold your mouse over thee& >>>> HP logo in the upper-left corner. >>>>	 >>>> Miker >>>> --r >>>o >>> Cool effect.J >>   I can see it with IE, but didn't work with Opera.  Is it valid HTML   >> code? >rF > I put it through the W3 validator originally. I've since made some  L > changes but there seems to be no problem with that particular section of   > code:k >   T > http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.polarhome.com%3A763%2F~miker%2F >E > Mike  # I will report it as a bug to Opera.  >o# >>  <A HREF="http://thenew.hp.com/"PG >>   onMouseOver="document.images[st].src='digital.gif' ; return true " @ >>   onMouseOut="document.images[st].src='hp.gif'; return true "@ >>   ><IMG SRC="hp.gif" BORDER=0 WIDTH=80 HEIGHT=50 ALIGN="LEFT" >>   ALT="The new HP" ></A><P> >> >>>i1 >>> p.s. You should add your site to the VMS ringr+ >>> (http://i.webring.com/hub?ring=openvms)R >>>  >>>r >>> Neil Rieck! >>> Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,a >>> Ontario, Canada.< >>> http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html >>>R >>>  >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:35:39 -0500m' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>m% Subject: RE: History of the VMS sharkRR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594F89@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]=20e > Sent: March 14, 2005 8:31 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0' > Subject: Re: History of the VMS sharkb >=206 > On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:01:08 +0200, Mike Rechtman=20 > <rechtman@tzora.co.il> =20 > wrote: >=20 > > Tom Linden wrote:g6 > >> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:32:29 -0500, Neil Rieck=20 > <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  =20u > >> wrote:A > >> > >>>uG > >>> "Mike Rechtman" <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com> wrote in messageg& > >>> news:42345451.14CC6B84@hp.com... > >>>  > >>> [...snip...] > >>>  > >>>>A > >>>> goto http://www.polarhome.com:763/~miker/ and hold your=20m > mouse over the( > >>>> HP logo in the upper-left corner. > >>>> > >>>> Mike-	 > >>>> --- > >>>- > >>> Cool effect.B > >>   I can see it with IE, but didn't work with Opera.  Is it=20 > valid HTML =20
 > >> code? > >oJ > > I put it through the W3 validator originally. I've since made some =209 > > changes but there seems to be no problem with that=20  > particular section of =20e	 > > code:e > >  =20 > >=20B > http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.polarhome.c > om%3A763%2F~miker%2F > >s > > Mike >=20% > I will report it as a bug to Opera.n     Tom,  ! It works fine with Opera8 Beta 2.s   Regardst  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanto HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax: 613-591-4477o kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:46:33 -0800g# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark.( Message-ID: <opsnmwrvaazgicya@hyrrokkin>  J On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:35:39 -0500, Main, Kerry <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote:   >  >> -----Original Message-----r+ >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]o >> Sent: March 14, 2005 8:31 AMD >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( >> Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark >>4 >> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:01:08 +0200, Mike Rechtman >> <rechtman@tzora.co.il>M	 >> wrote:N >> >> > Tom Linden wrote:4 >> >> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:32:29 -0500, Neil Rieck >> <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>r >> >> wrote: >> >>  >> >>>H >> >>> "Mike Rechtman" <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com> wrote in message' >> >>> news:42345451.14CC6B84@hp.com...@ >> >>> >> >>> [...snip...]o >> >>> >> >>>>o? >> >>>> goto http://www.polarhome.com:763/~miker/ and hold your5 >> mouse over thei) >> >>>> HP logo in the upper-left corner.s >> >>>>t >> >>>> Mike
 >> >>>> -- >> >>> >> >>> Cool effect.l@ >> >>   I can see it with IE, but didn't work with Opera.  Is it
 >> valid HTMLf >> >> code?n >> >G >> > I put it through the W3 validator originally. I've since made some 7 >> > changes but there seems to be no problem with thate >> particular section of
 >> > code: >> > >> >A >> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.polarhome.c  >> om%3A763%2F~miker%2Fp >> >	 >> > Mikee >>& >> I will report it as a bug to Opera. >o >x > Tom, > # > It works fine with Opera8 Beta 2.s Which version? >a	 > Regardsp >s > Kerry Main > Senior Consultanto > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660r > Fax: 613-591-4477  > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)n >(& > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..  > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:31:09 -0500D' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>T% Subject: RE: History of the VMS sharktR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594F9E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]=20> > Sent: March 14, 2005 10:47 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd' > Subject: Re: History of the VMS sharkT >=20 > Which version?    2 Opera 8 for Windows build 7483 (beta2). Reference:/ http://www.opera.com/download/get.pl?id=3D26480l   Regards'  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantp HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660r Fax: 613-591-4477d kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 11:47:11 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)% Subject: Re: History of the VMS sharki3 Message-ID: <7njf4dHVd5qW@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  ] In article <42345451.14CC6B84@hp.com>, Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com> writes:oH > goto http://www.polarhome.com:763/~miker/ and hold your mouse over the$ > HP logo in the upper-left corner.   K Just as good is the box in the opposite corner of the page, on the right ats the very bottom!  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"f& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfGL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  I         We must have faith in our democratic system and our Constitution,eK         and in our ability to protect at the same time both the freedom and-'         the security of all Americans. M   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:52:31 +0100i+ From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam>1. Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO= Message-ID: <42354306$0$78285$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>a   Main, Kerry wrote:I > Do you really think IBM is going to go up against Red Hat and SuSe withnJ > another Linux kernel distribution that competes with theirs? What do youF > think Red Hat and Suse would do with regards to their Power platform0 > support if IBM came up with another Linux pkg?  F Since IBM already has an investment in Novell and Novell owns SuSE it C would be more likely that IBM bought Novell or SuSE.  But I think, iI cusotmers not wanting a new monopoly would leave SuSE, and thus it would -# be a poor business decision to IBM.5   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:28:46 +0100I, From: "Dr. Dweeb" <5msg0h202@sneakemail.com>. Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO= Message-ID: <4235918d$0$80887$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>-   Karsten Nyblad wrote:4 > Bill Gunshannon wrote:@ >> In article <42333034$0$78287$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>,0 >> Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:H >>> Of course IBM can make the modifications that minimizes that work ofG >>> moving from AIX to Linux, but the customers will want to run RedhattG >>> or SuSE.  Thus IBM will have a strong interest in getting the Linuxm& >>> community to accept their changes. >> >>H >> If they put their minds to it, do you think it would be all that long? >> before IBM supplanted RedHat and/or SuSE as the ruler of theOA >> commercial Linux world?  Even Linus has nothing to protect hisi  >> position as the God of Linux. > E > Right now you need support for Oracle databases if you want to be a-G > Linux vendor.  Oracle would be dead dumb if they helped their largestOE > competitor on DB software getting a monopoly on the Linux platform.p >/G > IBM has been spending much money on Linux, but it is difficult to see@F > that they have got that much revenue from that.  Linux fans may likeA > what IBM do, but the fans do not let that decide their purchaseyH > decisions.  Sun have written important OSS like OpenOffice and J2EE isC > the only competitor to .NET, but Sun is in trouble.  IBM might be G > writing great software for Linux, but I doubt they can wind that many  > customers that way.u >tG > And now my own point of view.  I am a geek that hates monopolies, one-H > that likes the idea of software being free as in speech, not only free
 > as in beer.  >aG > The VMS zealots always points out that closed source software has thetB > advantage that if you have a problem, you can go to the softwareE > vendor and make the vendor fix it.  That might be true if you are a E > big customer of the vendor.  Otherwise you can send in bug reports,dF > and if you are lucky, you get a fix 6-12 months later.  If you are aC > small customer, than you are in a constant risk of running into aeG > problem that is a major issue to you, but not to other customers, andeC > the vendor not willing to fix the problem.  Face it:  The supportID > model of open source software has problems, but so has the supportG > model of closed source.  I can't see that the support model of closednG > source is any better to small customer than the support model of OSS.a >t  L Well, to take an example, OracleRdb support seems to turn around fixes quiteG pronto, and it seems that the *significance* of the fix required is the K determining factor, rather than the size of the customer who raised the bug H report.  I have personally seen bugfixes turned around within hours.  MyG point is, that just because some organisations (and MS is really guiltyfL here) see support as a contest to deliver the least amount of information inH the greatest possible time, it is not true of all organisations and longJ turnaround time for fixes is a question of policy from the company - not a/ problem endemic to proprietary software per se.-  F > Then you have the advantage that you can call the vendor if you haveE > some dumb questions on how to use their software.  Well I have onlyDG > tried it with VMS, and the Danish support could only answer questionssH > were you could read the answer in the manuals plus questions on how toF > get the system parameters right.  Not that much help to me.  I wouldC > say that reading the manuals plus c.o.v would put most people i a 1 > better situation than using the Danish support.o >a  H Danish support used to have a number of talented and *very* knowledgableI people.  The destruction of Digital from within and the subsequent CompaQfG takeover more or less ended what little there was of VMS in danmark.  I K guess support got decimated along with everything else, so I am unsurprisedcK that your experience with VMS support in danmark is negative.  When was the J last significant new VMS client sale in danmark ?  I suggest it was over aE decade ago, and that says all you need to know about how much DigitalnK danmark and since then CompaQ cared about VMS.  I doubt that a cold call toaD HP for information about VMS would be met with anything other than a mystified silence.  K Many of the talented people in danmark have been forced to either (a) leavecG the country to find work, (b) abandon VMS as a career, (c) retire or berK unemployed, or as in my case, all of the above in that sequence.  There are H unlikely to be many new people trained, and except for a small number ofL important "old" customers, the market is rapidly dwindling to zero.  DanmarkJ might actually be in the running for the first VMS-free country in Europe.H It can therefore only be a matter of time before danish local support is- completely abandoned and outsourced to India.d  H > OK, documentation of OSS software sucks and so does the quality of theF > less poppular programs, but you can look into the source and in mostD > cases it is not that difficult to get your questions answered thatG >   way. And most software bugs can be fixed or circumvented with minor  > changes to the programs. >iD > Then there is Windows.  From my point of view as an IT person thatE > platform really combine the problems of closed source software withnG > the problems of open source software.  If you want real support, thentD > you have to pay real money.  Otherwise you are stuck with a poorlyG > documented OS, were you can use very long time to troubleshoot simple*A > problems simply because you do not know what is going on inside0
 > Windows. >1  K Even when you pay "real-money" it does not help that much.  When MS screwed:G with things seriously between NT4 and XP, and broke things, they simply K never bothered to fix them.  It was possible to spend months getting MS topeJ even acknowledge that a repeatable and different behaviour was even a bug.K Customers were required to change/fix there own installations, sometimes at @ significant cost or data loss.  That is the power of a monopoly.  G > Further, software for software development is NOT free for any of the=D > closed source platforms.  E.g. on Windows you have to subscribe toA > MSDN and buy Visual Studio and a database if you what to do anye > serious programming. >lE > I do not want to go back to a model, where a single vendor controlsBE > the platform.  Before Microsoft became the hate object of everybodyeC > not liking monopolies it was IBM that had status.  I would preferi@ > that IBM does not get that position again, and thus I would beG > tempted to buy from other vendors should IBM try to monopolies Linux.;  I Gee, are you old enough to remember that.  They were certainly high on my = list back when I was programming for S/34 og VSE on the 4381..  	 Dr. Dweebi   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:31:15 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com . Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO- Message-ID: <87mzt6gxr0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  ) "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:    >> -----Original Message-----n> >> From: prep@prep.synonet.com [mailto:prep@prep.synonet.com]   >> Sent: March 12, 2005 10:38 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 >> Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO  >> a, >> "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >> nB >> > For things on Linux that require kernel changes, IBM can onlyC >> > request features. Linus (and associates) are the only ones whor4 >> > decide what and *when* kernel changes get done. >>   >> Horse stuff...C >>  D >> They have the code, there is NOTHING to stop them from writing itC >> themselves! Zip, nadda, nil. But they DO have to give the sourcep >> to their customers. >> B7 >> What other parts of Open Souce don't you understand?e  D > Great - another UNIX kernel distribution for all of the ISV's LikeD > Oracle to support. ISV's just love having more platforms to add to" > all of their support challenges.  B If IBM offered a near current linux with a libAIX and tools so youB could compile you code with NO changes, you would be killed in the rush.o   > :-)   C > Remember the old "it's the applications - not the OS" argument soa > familiar on this newsgroup?C  I Pity someone does not try to get some. Oh yes, but they have Integrity...   D > Do you really think IBM is going to go up against Red Hat and SuSeC > with another Linux kernel distribution that competes with theirs?bC > What do you think Red Hat and Suse would do with regards to their>? > Power platform support if IBM came up with another Linux pkg?t  ? What CAN RH and Suze do? Please peeeple, IBM are being nasty to 2 us so we want you all to burn you PPCs and macs...   -- c< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.<@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 06:59:28 -0800h% From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> . Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO7 Message-ID: <3f119ada05031406594be4f0f9@mail.gmail.com>o  P On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 06:37:49 +0100, Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:A > > In article <42333034$0$78287$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>,c7 > >       Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes: H > >>Of course IBM can make the modifications that minimizes that work ofJ > >>moving from AIX to Linux, but the customers will want to run Redhat orD > >>SuSE.  Thus IBM will have a strong interest in getting the Linux& > >>community to accept their changes. > > I > > If they put their minds to it, do you think it would be all that longwK > > before IBM supplanted RedHat and/or SuSE as the ruler of the commercial G > > Linux world?  Even Linus has nothing to protect his position as the* > > God of Linux.*  B What makes you think IBM isn't taking the slow sneaky way to doingA that? Up here around Portland, OR, there are a fair number of IBMfF engineers working on Linux full-time. Linus has been up to visit thoseD teams. He's not the "God of Linux"- he just has final say as to whatF goes into the kernel that calls itself "Linux". Everything outside the: kernel is fair game for anyone to slap together and call a
 distribution.h  E Which would you rather have- a distribution backed by RedHat or SuSe-yD organizations that grew up around Linux- or a distribution backed byD IBM, an organization that arguably understands enterprise computing?C Something that scales from the desktop to the datacenter, backed by 8 your own wits or the best support organization there is?  E > Right now you need support for Oracle databases if you want to be alG > Linux vendor.  Oracle would be dead dumb if they helped their largest.E > competitor on DB software getting a monopoly on the Linux platform.*  ) Nobody's said anything about a monopoly. /  G > IBM has been spending much money on Linux, but it is difficult to see-F > that they have got that much revenue from that.  Linux fans may likeA > what IBM do, but the fans do not let that decide their purchaseC > decisions.  D You're not looking hard enough. I can think of a fairly large former@ DEC customer that's now selling Linux on IBM hardware into theirE customers for all the new systems they sell. The hardware's good, and C they're running Linux because their people can make it do what they C need. (They're tired of being caught out with proprietary OSes, youwE see, unable to do anything but *request* changes from the mothership,t: and/or having their OS yanked out from under them (Tru64))   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:42:11 -0500d' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>h. Subject: RE: HP on fast track to finding a CEOR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594F9F@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: DeanW [mailto:dean.woodward@gmail.com]=20a > Sent: March 14, 2005 9:59 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comy0 > Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO >=20  	 [snip...]h    ; > > IBM has been spending much money on Linux, but it is=20E > difficult to seeH > > that they have got that much revenue from that.  Linux fans may likeC > > what IBM do, but the fans do not let that decide their purchaser > > decisions. >=20F > You're not looking hard enough. I can think of a fairly large formerB > DEC customer that's now selling Linux on IBM hardware into theirG > customers for all the new systems they sell. The hardware's good, and E > they're running Linux because their people can make it do what theygE > need. (They're tired of being caught out with proprietary OSes, you G > see, unable to do anything but *request* changes from the mothership,e< > and/or having their OS yanked out from under them (Tru64)) >=20  B So what happens when the Customer modifies the kernel and some ISV* application breaks or behaves differently?  H Who does the Customer point his finger at when the internal guy who madeF the changes is gone on vacation and some other issue comes up and thenD Red Hat / Suse discovers that custom kernel or distribution supplied driver changes have been made.  H As someone else mentioned, both open source and closed have benefits and challenges.=20  B For some Customers, running production support with limited vendorH support for their applications after they make internal changes in OS orH application is an acceptable risk. For others, the "one throat to choke"% is very much the way they are moving.i   Different strokes ..   Regards-  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660F Fax: 613-591-4477n kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:17:45 +0000 (UTC)n% From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org>s. Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO6 Message-ID: <slrnd3bhuv.79i.usenet@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>  y In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594F9F@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, Main, Kerry <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote:v >aD > So what happens when the Customer modifies the kernel and some ISV, > application breaks or behaves differently?  F No different from if the Customer had done something equivalent with aE closed source software. Customer would likely be told to revert firstSG before support would proceed, as is customary practice. Some additional 5 options may exist but these would be vendor-specific.a  D > For some Customers, running production support with limited vendorJ > support for their applications after they make internal changes in OS orJ > application is an acceptable risk. For others, the "one throat to choke"' > is very much the way they are moving.     Allow me to point out something:  A Customers who are disciplined enough to run production systems onrG closed source platforms will not likely suddenly pull a Jekyll-and-Hydec< situation and behave differently with open source platforms.  H We run both types of platforms, and apply the same operational practices@ and standards to both. After all, why would we treat operational7 requirements any different regardless of platform type?-  H Anyone who is really that undisciplined enough to be loading unsupportedF code versions (or code modifications) and needs external support, willE reap what they sow. This is true regardless of open or closed source.a  G Open source platforms *do* have their healthy share of issues, but this E particularly dubious example of FUD isn't one of them -- that is, not5 specific to open source.  D Might I suggest use of better examples to buttress your position? ;)   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:00:41 -0500l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>v. Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEOB Message-ID: <1110823247.60805669e0ff79f5c32e04f703e06635@teranews>  8 re: advantages of open source over proprietary software:  F When the vendor stops supporting a product, with open source, you haveD the option to continue to develop it yourself and make interfaces to newer software.   E Consider the various applications that come with TCPIP Services. theyRF are closed source and we can't do a thing to bring them up to par, andC with VMS engineering rumoured to be downsizing, the odds of gettingn serious updates are slim.i  E But if these were open sourced, we could still put or add ones to thesK receiver for isntance and integrate logic for better spam handling etc etc.a  G Similarly, if it were open sourced, we would have access to the varoiusgD TCPIP$ routines in the shareable image which woudl allow much better> interfaces t the smtp symbiont and name resolver for instance.  D This is where Linux has got a real edge over the rest of the world.   C NOW, if VMS were a strategic product and given the proper number ofrF resources, it COULD beat the pants off Linux with far better products.F But right now, the feeling I get is that VMS's tank is empty and it isF running on fumes with a skeleton engineering team (whose work is stillG very impressive, and while they may ne our heros, they are still humanse and limited in what they do).n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:10:10 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>m. Subject: RE: HP on fast track to finding a CEOR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594FB0@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Dan Foster [mailto:usenet@evilphb.org]=20v > Sent: March 14, 2005 12:18 PMo > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt0 > Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO >=20 > In article=20 @ > <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594F9F@tayexc19.americas.cpqc2 > orp.net>, Main, Kerry <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote: > >nF > > So what happens when the Customer modifies the kernel and some ISV. > > application breaks or behaves differently? >=20H > No different from if the Customer had done something equivalent with aG > closed source software. Customer would likely be told to revert first A > before support would proceed, as is customary practice. Some=20a > additional7 > options may exist but these would be vendor-specific..  > Sigh... I likely will regret going down this murky road, but -  D How many Customers can afford to roll back production environents toE reproduce problems that are only seen under heavy load etc? When ProdvD problems happen, many Cust's need fixes with minimal impact on their5 prod environment and "rolling" back is not an option.   F It sounds like your environment is such that you are comfortable doing, your own support and that is fine. Great.=20  E However, other Customers do not want to maintain OS and kernel driverhG changes - they want to focus on other areas of the business and let theg+ vendors worry about these low level issues.    >=20F > > For some Customers, running production support with limited vendor> > > support for their applications after they make internal=20 > changes in OS or> > > application is an acceptable risk. For others, the "one=20 > throat to choke") > > is very much the way they are moving.  >=20" > Allow me to point out something: >=20C > Customers who are disciplined enough to run production systems onf< > closed source platforms will not likely suddenly pull a=20 > Jekyll-and-Hyde > > situation and behave differently with open source platforms. >=207 > We run both types of platforms, and apply the same=20  > operational practices.B > and standards to both. After all, why would we treat operational9 > requirements any different regardless of platform type?d >=20  C We all know that no matter how much testing you do, many issues can G still occur in production environment. If you are comfortable resolvingc? these on your own or alternatively "rolling back", then that isn certainly one approach.r  D As much as possible, other Cust's want the vendors to fix these OS / driver level issues.    A > Anyone who is really that undisciplined enough to be loading=20y
 > unsupportedeH > code versions (or code modifications) and needs external support, willG > reap what they sow. This is true regardless of open or closed source.l >=20; > Open source platforms *do* have their healthy share of=20t > issues, but thisG > particularly dubious example of FUD isn't one of them -- that is, noto > specific to open source. >=20    F > Might I suggest use of better examples to buttress your position? ;) >=20 > -Dan  B Actually, what we are really talking about is how much risk is theH Customer willing to take on them selves. Yes, there are some benefits ofE Open Source, but there is also a cost in terms of technical resourcescD required to do this support (coding, testing, QA, documentation) and8 potential downtime - especially in 24x7 environments.=20  G Anyway, as I stated before, there are pro's-n-con's with both so called G closed vs open approaches and this is one debate that could (and likelya will) go one for decades.e   Regardst  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantn HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660i Fax: 613-591-4477l kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 10:29:15 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.coma. Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEOC Message-ID: <1110824955.053579.312270@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>O   Main, Kerry wrote: >iD > Actually, what we are really talking about is how much risk is theG > Customer willing to take on them selves. Yes, there are some benefits  ofG > Open Source, but there is also a cost in terms of technical resourcesoF > required to do this support (coding, testing, QA, documentation) and7 > potential downtime - especially in 24x7 environments.n  @ what cost?  If HP would keep a couple of "c" programmers to work> to exclusively port key opensource pieces to vms (i.e. apache)< that cost would be minimal ... and just think of the revenue, stream those 2 c programmers could generate!   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 07:56:05 -0800% From: "egolfer" <rclang007@yahoo.com>aL Subject: Job Opp Phoenix Arizona Enterprise Systems Admin -- Legato ** SAN**C Message-ID: <1110815765.705146.311790@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>c  A Exciting challenging environment -- great place to work and live!a  ) http://www.dist.maricopa.edu/jobs/38.html    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:13:57 GMTp* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>> Subject: Re: Mozilla suite freezing; whats to become of HPSWB?0 Message-ID: <F_gZd.1592$eO7.46@news.cpqcorp.net>  I I think Firefox and Chatzilla are the wave of the future, send your cardst( and letters in to lobby for Thunderbird.  % <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in messaget= news:1110568640.231451.154890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...e7 > http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=6206  >cE > Apparently the Mozilla group is not going to produce Mozilla 1.8 oro= > later; only maintenance releases to Mozilla while (perhaps)k. > concentrating on the more popular standaloneH > Firefox/Thunderbird/Sunbird components.  Kind of a bummer for me sinceI > I prefer Mozilla to Firefox, which seems to have been dumbed down a biti  > too much for the peecee folks. > D > Since the VMS browser is Mozilla based, and apparently porting theI > standalone components mentioned requires updates to underlying packages I > (GTK?  I can't remember what was posted), what impact will this have onII > future updates and availability of a VMS browser from HP?  Is there anyaE > chance that Firefox and Thunderbird (at least!) will become the new-  > porting sources down the road? >,
 > Rich Jordan: > CCS0 >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 06:29:19 -0800! From: kenneth.randell@verizon.netu> Subject: Re: Mozilla suite freezing; whats to become of HPSWB?C Message-ID: <1110810559.258281.281840@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>2  E > I think Firefox and Chatzilla are the wave of the future, send yourh cardsm* > and letters in to lobby for Thunderbird.   Send them where/to-who?D   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:35:11 +0100 ) From: "Jan van der Weijde" <JanW@WRQ.com>o Subject: Relative Record Number 0 Message-ID: <113ammc781v3c54@corp.supernews.com>   Hello,  J for an RMS adapter I am writing in C I need to know how to get the RRN forE all RMS file organizations that support it. The adapter is capable ofmJ accessing relative and sequential RMS files. Random access using an RRN isK already possible, however I also like to have the RRN value after a sys$getR and sys$put.E For relative files I think the bucket code field rab$l_bkt of the RABM? structure contains the RRN after get and put. Is that correct ?rB And what structure field can I use to retrieve the RRN value for a  sequential (fixed record) file ?  
 Thank you, Jan>   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:32:29 GMTs( From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com># Subject: Re: Relative Record Number 1 Message-ID: <1ghZd.1593$SP7.637@news.cpqcorp.net>h  4 "Jan van der Weijde" <JanW@WRQ.com> wrote in message* news:113ammc781v3c54@corp.supernews.com... > Hello, >cL > for an RMS adapter I am writing in C I need to know how to get the RRN forG > all RMS file organizations that support it. The adapter is capable ofeL > accessing relative and sequential RMS files. Random access using an RRN isE > already possible, however I also like to have the RRN value after a3 sys$getw > and sys$put.    G > For relative files I think the bucket code field rab$l_bkt of the RAB A > structure contains the RRN after get and put. Is that correct ?[   Yes.  D > And what structure field can I use to retrieve the RRN value for a" > sequential (fixed record) file ?   I don't think you can./ You can calculate from the returned RFA though:PL block minus 1 times 512 plus bytes divided by record size rounded up to even2 number and then add one, because RRN start at 1 ?! Something like: @ RRN = 1 + ((RAB$L_RFA0 - 1)*512 + RAB$W_RFA4)/ (( RSZ +1)  & -2)  G Yikes, and then you potentially have to add 'record does not span block- boundary' logic. Double yikes.9 Hmmm... trivial for RMS to do, and a hassle for a programk Maybe just use the RFA?c   Here is a quick test:...  
 $CREATE TMP.C  $ type tmp.c #include <rms> #include <stdio> #define MAXRECSIZ 32767    main (int argc, char *argv[])r {  struct FAB      fab; struct RAB      rab;9 int             vbn, id, size;  char recbuf[MAXRECSIZ+1];   int             i, j, stat, num;   fab = cc$rms_fab;  rab = cc$rms_rab;8 fab.fab$b_fac = FAB$M_GET; fab.fab$l_fna = argv[1];" fab.fab$b_fns = STRLEN( argv[1] ); stat = SYS$OPEN ( &fab );0 if (!(stat&1)) return stat;=   rab.rab$l_fab = &fab;c rab.rab$l_ubf = recbuf;  rab.rab$w_usz = MAXRECSIZ; stat = SYS$CONNECT ( &rab ); if (!(stat&1)) return stat;  stat = SYS$GET ( &rab );F while (stat & 1)        /* count record while RMS status is success */ {w@     printf ("%6d,%-4d %6d %s\n", rab.rab$l_rfa0, rab.rab$w_rfa4,        rab.rab$l_bkt, recbuf);     stat = SYS$GET ( &rab ); } ) if (stat == RMS$_EOF) stat = RMS$_NORMAL;  return stat; }h  ( $CONVERT/PAD/TRUN/FDL=SYS$INPUT: TMP.SEQ record; size 64  <exit> aap  noot mies <exit>' $ CONVERT/FDL=SYS$INPUT tmp.seq tmp.reln file; organization relative  record; size 64o <exit> $ tmp:=="$SYS$DISK:[]TMP "
 $ tmp tmp.seqo      1,0         0 aap      1,64        0 nootl      1,128       0 miesD
 $ tmp tmp.relw      1,0         1 aap      2,0         2 nooti      3,0         3 mies   	 Groetjes,o Hein.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:11:11 +0100 A From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder.nospam@volkswagen.de>61 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-TO) Message-ID: <d13guf$ae12@doiweb4.b2x.vwg>n   Guy Peleg wrote: > Hello All, > ; > For the next OpenVMS release, I have added the ability to0< > customize the output of CTRL-T. The contents of the symbol3 > DCL$CTRLT will be appended to the standard CTRL-Tm	 > output.@ > 8 > While doing that, I thought about a new concept remote. > CTRL-T. Assuming that DCL$CTRLT_PID contains' > a process ID,  the CTRL-T informationi2 > displayed will be the one of the remote process. > E > It is not a revolutionary idea and the information can be retrieved 1 > in 10 other ways, however I think it is useful.h > 9 > Do you like the idea of remote CTRL-T? Will you be ablee > to use it? > 3 > Your thoughts and comments are highly appreciatedi >  > Guy Pelegr > OpenVMS Engineering  >  > , I would like to see this feature in OpenVMS.  	 mfg Kallet   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:01:44 +1100s6 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au>1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T X Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE0E@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C52874.725AB9E6 . Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablei  L I forget who mentioned it, but CTRL^T shows useful information in BACKUP.  =L I agree with your useful concept here, but would think that firstly, other =L DCL commands could exhibit BACKUP's behaviour.  A first candidate would lik=J ely be copy.  Others that spring to mind are some of the SET FILE options.  L In other words, I think that you should look at what useful information you=L  could give us from within standard DCL.  Then give us the ability to add o=; ur own, which I then think would be lesserly (? :-) needed.n  L Not sure how I would consider using the remote feature.  What does CTRL^T g=; ive that I can't get for a remote process from sho process?:   Regards, Paddy     -----Original Message-----H From: Karl Rohwedder [mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder.nospam@volkswagen.de] Sent: Mon 3/14/2005 7:11 PMc To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-Ta =20t Guy Peleg wrote: > Hello All, >=20; > For the next OpenVMS release, I have added the ability toH< > customize the output of CTRL-T. The contents of the symbol3 > DCL$CTRLT will be appended to the standard CTRL-Tw	 > output.d >=208 > While doing that, I thought about a new concept remote. > CTRL-T. Assuming that DCL$CTRLT_PID contains' > a process ID,  the CTRL-T informationO2 > displayed will be the one of the remote process. >=20E > It is not a revolutionary idea and the information can be retrieved-1 > in 10 other ways, however I think it is useful.m >=209 > Do you like the idea of remote CTRL-T? Will you be ables > to use it? >=203 > Your thoughts and comments are highly appreciatedg >=20 > Guy Peleg2 > OpenVMS Engineering, >=20 >=20, I would like to see this feature in OpenVMS.  	 mfg Kalle/      G ***********************************************************************p  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedh@ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise4D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.o  C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20tC immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20l? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses1> virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************r    ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C52874.725AB9E6d- Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"p+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">e <HTML> <HEAD>L <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-= 1">oK <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0">i7 <TITLE>Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T</TITLE>  </HEAD>o <BODY>) <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->5  L <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I forget who mentioned it, but CTRL^T shows useful inform=L ation in BACKUP.&nbsp; I agree with your useful concept here, but would thi=L nk that firstly, other DCL commands could exhibit BACKUP's behaviour.&nbsp;=L  A first candidate would likely be copy.&nbsp; Others that spring to mind a=$ re some of the SET FILE options.<BR> <BR>L In other words, I think that you should look at what useful information you=L  could give us from within standard DCL.&nbsp; Then give us the ability to =D add our own, which I then think would be lesserly (? :-) needed.<BR> <BR>L Not sure how I would consider using the remote feature.&nbsp; What does CTR=D L^T give that I can't get for a remote process from sho process?<BR> <BR> Regards, Paddy<BR> <BR> <BR> -----Original Message-----<BR>L From: Karl Rohwedder [<A HREF=3D"mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder.nospam@volksw=C agen.de">mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder.nospam@volkswagen.de</A>]<BR>i Sent: Mon 3/14/2005 7:11 PM<BR>f To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<BR> 5 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T<BR>y <BR> Guy Peleg wrote:<BR> &gt; Hello All,<BR>e &gt;<BR>B &gt; For the next OpenVMS release, I have added the ability to<BR>C &gt; customize the output of CTRL-T. The contents of the symbol<BR> : &gt; DCL$CTRLT will be appended to the standard CTRL-T<BR> &gt; output.<BR> &gt;<BR>? &gt; While doing that, I thought about a new concept remote<BR>r5 &gt; CTRL-T. Assuming that DCL$CTRLT_PID contains<BR>r3 &gt; a process ID,&nbsp; the CTRL-T information<BR>a9 &gt; displayed will be the one of the remote process.<BR>  &gt;<BR>L &gt; It is not a revolutionary idea and the information can be retrieved<BR>8 &gt; in 10 other ways, however I think it is useful.<BR> &gt;<BR>@ &gt; Do you like the idea of remote CTRL-T? Will you be able<BR> &gt; to use it?<BR>f &gt;<BR>: &gt; Your thoughts and comments are highly appreciated<BR> &gt;<BR> &gt; Guy Peleg<BR> &gt; OpenVMS Engineering<BR> &gt;<BR> &gt;<BR>0 I would like to see this feature in OpenVMS.<BR> <BR>
 mfg Kalle<BR>  <BR> </FONT>f </P>   <FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>h <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>i <BR>G "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged<BR> B and confidential information intended only for the use of the <BR>F addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of <BR>G this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise<BR>pF the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, <BR>; distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.<BR>e <BR>E If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid <BR>oE immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the <BR>oA individual sender except where the sender expressly and with <BR>tG authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses<BR>tB virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses<BR>  contained in any attachment.<BR> <BR>@ Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now<BR>( firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"<BR> <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>i </FONT>w </BODY>h </HTML>a) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C52874.725AB9E6--,   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:43:59 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T , Message-ID: <39lf7pF642ci5U1@individual.net>   Simon Clubley wrote:  _ > In article <4233fdfc@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> writes:p > 9 >>Do you like the idea of remote CTRL-T? Will you be able  >>to use it? >> >  > 5 > What privilege will be required for this facility ?v > K > (In order to stop non-privileged users from tracking which programs other M > users are running; at the moment they need to have access to a program likei. > finger in order to obtain this information). >   ? Owner, Group and World could be used, just as for SHOW PROCESS.e   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 06:37:57 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-To3 Message-ID: <7t5X8unFoS+S@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  ] In article <4233fdfc@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> writes:  > 9 > Do you like the idea of remote CTRL-T? Will you be abler > to use it? >   3 What privilege will be required for this facility ?h  I (In order to stop non-privileged users from tracking which programs othereK users are running; at the moment they need to have access to a program liken, finger in order to obtain this information).   Simon.   -- oB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st centurye   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 05:36:20 -0800  From: "Barry" <dysert@gmail.com>1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T B Message-ID: <1110807380.240530.94100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  G Doing F$CTRLT(PID) makes more sense than requiring the user to define aiD logical to get the info from another PID.  In fact, it makes it moreE consistent ala F$GETJPI.  As for its usefulness, I too would probablybD still use SH PROC/CONT on the remote process.  So while F$CTRLT(PID)5 would a a nicety, I don't see much practical benefit.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 07:44:02 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-Tn3 Message-ID: <idKm5W01bc8X@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  ] In article <4233fdfc@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> writes:  > ; > For the next OpenVMS release, I have added the ability toa< > customize the output of CTRL-T. The contents of the symbol3 > DCL$CTRLT will be appended to the standard CTRL-Tu	 > output.r > 8 > While doing that, I thought about a new concept remote. > CTRL-T. Assuming that DCL$CTRLT_PID contains' > a process ID,  the CTRL-T informationf2 > displayed will be the one of the remote process. >       Yes, way cool.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:49:35 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-To; Message-ID: <zgjZd.9750$DW.1952@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>l  , "Barry" <dysert@gmail.com> wrote in message < news:1110807380.240530.94100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...I > Doing F$CTRLT(PID) makes more sense than requiring the user to define auF > logical to get the info from another PID.  In fact, it makes it moreG > consistent ala F$GETJPI.  As for its usefulness, I too would probablyrF > still use SH PROC/CONT on the remote process.  So while F$CTRLT(PID)7 > would a a nicety, I don't see much practical benefit.- >   M I don't think you understand the idea.  If you have a program that does most :L of its work in subprocesses (like MMS), after you create the subprocess you I call sys$crelnm to define DCL$CTRLT_PID to be the PID of the subprocess. aJ Then, when the user presses Ctrl/T, they will see the statistics from the L subprocess rather than the statistics from the main process (which is idle,  waiting for the subprocess).  G I like the idea and I hope that the maintainers of MMS put to good use i
 (quickly).   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:59:18 GMT(% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T.; Message-ID: <GpjZd.9755$DW.4669@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>e  B "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au> wrote in message R news:8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE0E@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local...K >I forget who mentioned it, but CTRL^T shows useful information in BACKUP.  M >I agree with your useful concept >here, but would think that firstly, other vJ >DCL commands could exhibit BACKUP's behaviour.  A first candidate >would F >likely be copy.  Others that spring to mind are some of the SET FILE 	 >options.w  G This concept makes it easier for a tool to show useful information via tL Ctrl/T.  Without Guy's DCL$CTRLT logical, a utility has to intercept Ctrl/T H and re-implement the existing Ctrl/T output and then display additional H information.  With DCL$CTRLT, it just has to call sys$crelnm to set the L value of the logical name.  Also, DCL command procedures and provide better 1 feedback via Ctrl/T by defining the logical name.   M >In other words, I think that you should look at what useful information you xK >could give us from within standard >DCL.  Then give us the ability to add s= >our own, which I then think would be lesserly (? :-) needed.R  K >Not sure how I would consider using the remote feature.  What does CTRL^T  > >give that I can't get for a remote >process from sho process?  H How are you going to do a SHOW PROCESS when you're running MMS from the H command line?  These two logicals are perfect form MMS, it could define K DCL$CTRLT to be a message about which what is being compiled or linked and -K it could define DCL$CTRLT_PID to be the PID of the subprocess that's doing a	 the work.u  L It's easy for MMS to implement and you get better information out of Ctrl/T.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 10:53:42 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T73 Message-ID: <g7DM5lqmfx1I@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  U In article <39lf7pF642ci5U1@individual.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:i > Simon Clubley wrote: > ` >> In article <4233fdfc@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> writes: >> o: >>>Do you like the idea of remote CTRL-T? Will you be able
 >>>to use it?  >>>  >> t >> u6 >> What privilege will be required for this facility ? >>  L >> (In order to stop non-privileged users from tracking which programs otherN >> users are running; at the moment they need to have access to a program like/ >> finger in order to obtain this information).k > A > Owner, Group and World could be used, just as for SHOW PROCESS.e  C The privileges required _should_ be GROUP or WORLD to be consistentu with the rest of VMS.t   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Mar 2005 22:56:17 -0800 From: pdafniotis@yahoo.com$ Subject: SCSI Controller for XP-1000B Message-ID: <1110783376.968625.26340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  G Could someone advise me which SCSI controllers (primarily interested in @ Adaptec/Tekram/LSI solutions) would work on OpenVMS 7.3-2 for an1 XP-1000 workstation (667MHz CPU if that matters).u  A I am especially interested in having a controller that can accepteB external disks (space is a bit ... limited inside the XP1000 box).   Thank you and kind regards,    Petros ---  Petros Dafniotis, PhD  pdafniotis@yahoo.com   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 08:24:23 +0100. From: huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)( Subject: Re: SCSI Controller for XP-1000+ Message-ID: <DbcOWLJQUqgx@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   _ In article <1110783376.968625.26340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, pdafniotis@yahoo.com writes:uI > Could someone advise me which SCSI controllers (primarily interested innB > Adaptec/Tekram/LSI solutions) would work on OpenVMS 7.3-2 for an3 > XP-1000 workstation (667MHz CPU if that matters).  > C > I am especially interested in having a controller that can acceptrD > external disks (space is a bit ... limited inside the XP1000 box).  3 On my XP-1000 an Adaptec 29160 (UW 160) is working:tP Device PKB0:, device type Adaptec AIC-7899, is online, error logging is enabled.B I have a DLT80 drive connected, but disks should not be a problem.D The controller is not recognized by SRM, i.e. can't be used as boot-A device, but after entering the PCI bus ID in sys$user_config.dat,r% it works well (VMS 7.3-1 in my case).   j -- R6    Joseph Huber, Muenchen  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:45:55 -0800O# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>m( Subject: Re: SCSI Controller for XP-1000( Message-ID: <opsnmq6tttzgicya@hyrrokkin>  I On 14 Mar 2005 08:24:23 +0100, Joseph Huber <huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de>  . wrote:  F > In article <1110783376.968625.26340@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,   > pdafniotis@yahoo.com writes:J >> Could someone advise me which SCSI controllers (primarily interested inC >> Adaptec/Tekram/LSI solutions) would work on OpenVMS 7.3-2 for an 4 >> XP-1000 workstation (667MHz CPU if that matters). >>D >> I am especially interested in having a controller that can acceptE >> external disks (space is a bit ... limited inside the XP1000 box).  >d5 > On my XP-1000 an Adaptec 29160 (UW 160) is working:nK > Device PKB0:, device type Adaptec AIC-7899, is online, error logging is  i
 > enabled.D > I have a DLT80 drive connected, but disks should not be a problem.F > The controller is not recognized by SRM, i.e. can't be used as boot-C > device, but after entering the PCI bus ID in sys$user_config.dat,e' > it works well (VMS 7.3-1 in my case).r >l I have Qlogic ISP1020 in mine.  E BTW, is there a simple command to show the device to which a drive iscG attached?  For example suppose tou want to know the details of the scsia* controller to which, say DKA0 is attached.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 06:25:00 -0800! From: kenneth.randell@verizon.net ( Subject: Re: SCSI Controller for XP-1000C Message-ID: <1110810300.052996.205620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>t  G > BTW, is there a simple command to show the device to which a drive iseD > attached?  For example suppose tou want to know the details of the scsi, > controller to which, say DKA0 is attached.  B Depending on your hardware (VAX/ALPHA/ITANIUM) and version of VMS,C how'z about f$getdvi("dka0:", "mpdev_current_path")?  This seems ton1 work even for SCSI devices that aren't multipath.o   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 07:33:04 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sO Subject: Re: Transfering Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help pleases3 Message-ID: <dhVCq6ufir4h@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  n In article <1110568741.425394.208480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com writes:F > My MicroVAX 3100 only has terminal connections to the outside world.I > One of these is to a PC running Windows2000. I have downloaded from theCG > Web onto the PC a number of VAX executables. These I want to transfert
 > to the VAX.l  ?    Executables have no file attribute requirements.  The linkertA    creates them in fixed 512 byte blocks, but the image activator     ignores that.  F    The image activator simply maps the disk blocks to memory pagelets.D    Which means every byte in the data blocks of the file has to be a    byte of executable image.    bE    As long as you do all your transfers in a mode such as FTP binary,tF    which do absolutely nothing as far as "meta data" is concerned, you    will get a useable image.  G    This is one of the reasons VMS patches have been distributed as self 0    expaning archives in executable image format.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:48:49 +1100 6 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au>Y Subject: Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help    please pleas X Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE0C@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5286A.CF73DF1Ei. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   L Whether this helps or not, my colleagues use something called VAXLINK2 to t=L ransfer from their PCs to their VMS accounts.  I know not where they obtain=L ed this, but they asked me to put it into a system area, and I found it saf= e.   Regards, Paddy     -----Original Message-----/ From: Jeff Cameron [mailto:roktsci@comcast.net]R Sent: Mon 3/14/2005 3:21 PMg To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3L Subject: Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help p= lease please pleasef =20: On 3/13/05 9:59 AM, in articleB 1110736766.989544.70070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote:   >=20 > Jeff Cameron wrote:  >=20B >> I don't know exactly what you mean? I use Kermit-32, and I have
 > transferredcE >> VAX and Alpha Executable images using both these methods for yearse > now, with  >=20H > Actually re-reading - the clue is in your statement "VAX and Alpha" IfD > you really are running Kermit-32 on an Alpha then I'm astounded. IG > *think* it did VEST as I tried it for a laugh about '92. I have neveriH > heard of anyone actually compiling it on an Alpha. Frank da Cruz would3 > probably turn a funny colour at the very thought.w >=20G > Kermit-32 shared sourcecode with TOPS-10 Kermit-36 and was written in E > Bliss. It is very, very old and only implements a subset of current  > Kermit protocols.r >=20 > -- > Alan Greig >=20B Thank you, I will check it out and find out for certain. I base my) conclusion on the prompt being Kermit-32.i   Jeff        G ***********************************************************************i  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedr@ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.e  C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20:? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=208C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses>> virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************e    ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5286A.CF73DF1Es- Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"m+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablen  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">i <HTML> <HEAD>L <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-= 1">lK <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0"> L <TITLE>Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help ple= ase please please</TITLE>v </HEAD>a <BODY>) <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->i  L <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Whether this helps or not, my colleagues use something ca=L lled VAXLINK2 to transfer from their PCs to their VMS accounts.&nbsp; I kno=L w not where they obtained this, but they asked me to put it into a system a= rea, and I found it safe.<BR>  <BR> Regards, Paddy<BR> <BR> <BR> -----Original Message-----<BR>L From: Jeff Cameron [<A HREF=3D"mailto:roktsci@comcast.net">mailto:roktsci@c= omcast.net</A>]<BR>a Sent: Mon 3/14/2005 3:21 PM<BR>l To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<BR>FL Subject: Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help p= lease please please<BR>e <BR>" On 3/13/05 9:59 AM, in article<BR>L 1110736766.989544.70070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, &quot;Alan Greig&quot= ;<BR> ( &lt;greigaln@netscape.net&gt; wrote:<BR> <BR> &gt;<BR> &gt; Jeff Cameron wrote:<BR> &gt;<BR>L &gt;&gt; I don't know exactly what you mean? I use Kermit-32, and I have<BR> &gt; transferred<BR>L &gt;&gt; VAX and Alpha Executable images using both these methods for years= <BR> &gt; now, with<BR> &gt;<BR>L &gt; Actually re-reading - the clue is in your statement &quot;VAX and Alph= a&quot; If<BR>K &gt; you really are running Kermit-32 on an Alpha then I'm astounded. I<BR>vL &gt; *think* it did VEST as I tried it for a laugh about '92. I have never<= BR>nL &gt; heard of anyone actually compiling it on an Alpha. Frank da Cruz would= <BR>: &gt; probably turn a funny colour at the very thought.<BR> &gt;<BR>L &gt; Kermit-32 shared sourcecode with TOPS-10 Kermit-36 and was written in<= BR>nL &gt; Bliss. It is very, very old and only implements a subset of current<BR> &gt; Kermit protocols.<BR> &gt;<BR> &gt; --<BR>t &gt; Alan Greig<BR>  &gt;<BR>F Thank you, I will check it out and find out for certain. I base my<BR>- conclusion on the prompt being Kermit-32.<BR>  <BR> Jeff<BR> <BR> <BR> </FONT>g </P>   <FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>  <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>o <BR>G "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged<BR> B and confidential information intended only for the use of the <BR>F addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of <BR>G this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise<BR>nF the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, <BR>; distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.<BR>t <BR>E If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid <BR> E immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the <BR>5A individual sender except where the sender expressly and with <BR>OG authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses<BR>-B virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses<BR>  contained in any attachment.<BR> <BR>@ Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now<BR>( firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"<BR> <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>s </FONT>u </BODY>l </HTML>a) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5286A.CF73DF1E--f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:22:34 +0100o& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>Y Subject: Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help    please pleasn, Message-ID: <39l3e4F60nb7uU1@individual.net>   O'Brien Paddy wrote:  I > Whether this helps or not, my colleagues use something called VAXLINK2  K > to transfer from their PCs to their VMS accounts.  I know not where they eG > obtained this, but they asked me to put it into a system area, and I   > found it safe. >   F VAXLINK2 came with a copy of a PC terminal emulator called Reflection.   http://www.wrq.com/g  H To load VAXLINK2 onto your VMS system, Reflection created a small macro I program, assembled and linked it, and that was used to download VAXLINK2.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:11:37 -0800-( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>Y Subject: Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help   please pleaset/ Message-ID: <BE5ACD89.947F%roktsci@comcast.net>6  L > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --B_3193621898_32718432i Content-type: text/plain;. 	charset="US-ASCII"0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit/   On 3/13/05 11:48 PM, in articleaK 8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE0C@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local,l7 "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au> wrote:   K > Whether this helps or not, my colleagues use something called VAXLINK2 tonP > transfer from their PCs to their VMS accounts.  I know not where they obtainedL > this, but they asked me to put it into a system area, and I found it safe. >  > Regards, Paddy > > VAXLINK2 is a part of WRQ Reflections. It does work very well.   Jeff   --B_3193621898_32718432s Content-type: text/html; 	charset="US-ASCII"n+ Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printablel   <HTML> <HEAD>L <TITLE>Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help &nb=+ sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;please please please</TITLE>  </HEAD>m <BODY>P <FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'>On 3/=M 13/05 11:48 PM, in article 8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE0C@EX-TG2-PR.=@M corporate.transgrid.local, &quot;O'Brien Paddy&quot; &lt;Paddy.O'Brien@trans=e grid.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR> <BR>N </SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYL=O E=3D'font-size:12.0px'>Whether this helps or not, my colleagues use something = M called VAXLINK2 to transfer from their PCs to their VMS accounts. &nbsp;I kn= M ow not where they obtained this, but they asked me to put it into a system a=t rea, and I found it safe.<BR>  <BR> Regards, Paddy<BR> <BR>N </SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STY=O LE=3D'font-size:12.0px'>VAXLINK2 is a part of WRQ Reflections. It does work ve=o ry well.<BR> <BR> Jeff</SPAN></FONT> </BODY>R </HTML>e     --B_3193621898_32718432--s   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 11:39:20 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) Subject: TSM questions?M3 Message-ID: <SKPkuUxRMeUL@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  H We use the (old, unsupported) TSM to save our terminal server context soK that we can reload it when one fails. We also compare the context to detect-: changes and report when they are found. The script used is TSM$NA_V23_GET_CHAR.COMn  G Last week a DS700 died. We took the saved config and restored it to thePC replacement server. Then we discovered that a printer wasn't set up I properly. I searched all of our saved configs and could not find a DEFINE F PRINTER command anywhere, even though we have several set up. Makes me2 wonder what else isn't getting saved and restored.  J Is there a newer version of the script somewhere that will fix my problem?  H The `wizard' indicates the `latest' TSM patch level is 8. Freeware 6 has8 ECOs 7, 8, and 9. I'm at 3. Where do I find 4, 5, and 6?    1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"h& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdfIL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  I         We must have faith in our democratic system and our Constitution, K         and in our ability to protect at the same time both the freedom andr'         the security of all Americans.     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:32:06 -0500   From: w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com>- Subject: Re: UPS/Power conditioning questionsl* Message-ID: <42356826.914B2DD@hotmail.com>  .   Definition of 'sufficient earthing' has been; misrepresented.  As supplementary books noted, the earthingC2 system is dependent on something that is no longer< dependable.  Plastic pipe can be used. Plumbers, who have no; concern about things electrical, can do other things.  What : then provides the so critical earthing system?  Cold water> pipe is no longer acceptable as the earthing system because it> is not reliable.  At best, it is supplementary earthing.  What4 is sufficient earthing?  Something that makes a good< connection to earth?  NO.  Something that will ALWAYS make a> good earthing connection.  Changing condition resulted in 1990
 code changes.   =   You are misinterpreting what the code requires. The world's 6 electrically best earth ground still does not meet NEC9 requirements IF that earth ground does not always exist. a< Because earthing is now so critical, then water pipes are no> longer sufficient as the earthing connection.  Yes, cold water> pipes can supplement the earthing system.  But with or without= a connection to cold water pipes, the building still requires/> earthing by some other and reliable method. No way around that: fact.  Cold water pipes are not acceptable as the earthing system. > They are not reliable earthing.  Pipes can only supplement the earthing system.  >   Then we return to the point of this discussion.  Is the cold< water pipe a less than 10 foot connection from each incoming6 utility?  Another essential requirement for transistor= protection.  Transistor protection means meeting (and usually6< exceeding) post 1990 code requirements.  The cold water pipe8 no longer provides sufficient earthing because it can be7 replaced in plastic.  Other requirements for transistord8 protection include a 'less than 10 foot' connection to a single point earth ground.  ;   Effective transistor protection means meeting and usually 7 exceeding post 1990 NEC requirements.  Those with oldere: buildings should consider upgrading their earthing systems8 also for transistor safety reasons.  All this is for the5 secondary protection system.  Earthing of the primaryr< protection system should also be inspected as noted earlier:"    http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html  8   Notice all this is never discussed by manufacturers of> plug-in UPSes.  They imply protection.  But again, earthing is: the most essential part of a protection system.  Therefore: plug-in UPS and power strip manufacturers hope we will not learn about earthing.-   George Cook wrote:D > The cold water pipe does in fact provide sufficient earthing.  TheD > supplemental is required for practical reasons as explained later.B > The key word here is "supplemental."  The code actually permits,F > in some cases, the supplemental to be bonded to the grounding systemB > via a section of the cold water pipe.  The code also permits theA > supplemental to be another underground piping system per (2003) G > 250.52(A)(7) and 250.53(D)(2).  So a combination of metal undergroundPB > cold water and steam pipes would be a perfectly acceptable earth= > grounding system as far as the NEC is concerned.  "American > > Electricians' Handbook Twelfth Edition" by Croft and SummersB > page 9-188 states "Continuous metallic underground water systemsC > in general have a resistance to ground of less than 3 ohms."  ThefA > NEC only requires the entire grounding system provide a maximumn > of 25 ohms to ground.d > ...s > ? > The NFPA NEC 1990 Handbook does explain why: "The requiremente@ > to supplement the metal water pipe is based on the practice of> > using a plastic pipe for replacement when the original metalB > water pipe fails from corrosion, which leaves the system without@ > a grounding electrode where the supplementary electrode is notA > provided."  See also "Practical Electrical Wiring 16th Edition"t> > by Richter and Schwan pages 311 to 312 which gives a similar" > explanation for the requirement. > ...t > E > My only point is that you shouldn't misrepresent the NEC in support  > of your argument.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:02:27 +0100c& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>, Subject: Re: VFC Print file carriage control, Message-ID: <39kr7dF5v6tj7U1@individual.net>   Martin Hunt wrote:  G > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 02:16:31 -0500, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- > wrote: >  >  >>Martin Hunt wrote: >>I >>>We have some files which have generated by a Cobol program - they have I >>>a record format of "VFC, 2 byte header" and record atributes of "Print= >>>file carriage control". >>H >>Assuming this is on ongoing process, you might consider modifying the 6 >>Cobol program to create the file in a usable format. >  > B > I have checked with the developers, and this is part of a fairly? > complex subroutine which is called by a large number of other F > programs. Modifying the code is not something that they are prepared > to do. >  > J >>But if you don't have source code, as JF posted, CONVERT should be able A >>to do what you want, using FDL files to define the output file.= >  > E > No, that doesn't work. You need to look up about Print file format.eF > Quite a number of records contain a skip-lines count, as part of theH > 2-byte header. Convert needs to convert these to multiple records, and > it does not do that. >   I My experience is that files output by COBOL's Report Writer are produced dI as VFC files by default. IIRC /NOVFC is not available in the VAX version.t   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 00:38:53 -0800 From: _raq_@yahoo.com (RAQ).; Subject: VMS DCL program sometimes freeze in a pipe command*= Message-ID: <b7495cef.0503140038.7d2ac857@posting.google.com>_  @ In about 1 of 200 times, my batchjob freezes in this line, after? making several checks, it all the sudden decides not to run anyL further.  E $  pipe  sh proc /ID='pid /all | sea sys$pipe "Connect time:"| ( ready% sys$input a ; define /job foobar  &a)-   The last time it was:3D  $  pipe  sh proc /ID=20352AF6/all | sea sys$pipe "Connect time:"| (* read sys$input a ; define /job foobar  &a)   Anyone else experienced this?C  Any good ideas for a workaround?   Thanks   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 12:26:57 -06004 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius)? Subject: Re: VMS DCL program sometimes freeze in a pipe commando3 Message-ID: <0tvFt8gj0Bn9@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  [ In article <b7495cef.0503140038.7d2ac857@posting.google.com>, _raq_@yahoo.com (RAQ) writes:.B > In about 1 of 200 times, my batchjob freezes in this line, afterA > making several checks, it all the sudden decides not to run any;
 > further. > G > $  pipe  sh proc /ID='pid /all | sea sys$pipe "Connect time:"| ( readn' > sys$input a ; define /job foobar  &a)n >  > The last time it was:eF >  $  pipe  sh proc /ID=20352AF6/all | sea sys$pipe "Connect time:"| (, > read sys$input a ; define /job foobar  &a)   Some ideas:-  H  (1) Does  "define whatever &a"  even work when a contains white space??  M  (2) Debugging help: change everything starting with second vertical bar withs       >'tmpfile' ; -M    ( open xx 'tmpfile' ; read xx a ; a=f$ele(2," ",a) ; define.. ; close xx )q  /    where tmpfile is defined in advance as, say,e  0       $ tmpfile=f$getj("","PID")+"_SCRATCH.TMP;"  '    and you can clean up afterwards with          $ delete 'tmpfile'  I    Note the (optional) use of f$ele to pull at just a single piece of thew&    input and eliminate the whitespace.  E    Look in the temporary file afterwards to try to diagnose the hang.n   --9 George Cornelius              cornelius@encompasserve.orgc0                               cornelius@mayo.edu   >  > Anyone else experienced this?e" > Any good ideas for a workaround? >  > Thanks   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:06:02 +0000 (UTC)i6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)2 Subject: [OpenVMS V8.2, ASOVMS V7.3A4] Supported ?0 Message-ID: <newscache$2yscdi$dfz$1@news.sil.at>  I I just saw that the Advanced Server for OpenVMS is currently V7.3A ECO 4.G  < The OpenVMS Rolling Roadmaps from March 2004 tell (on pg.38)  that ECO 4 supports OpenVMS V8.2  0 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/roadmap/  L OpenVMS Alpha Rollout Reports tell that ASOVMS V7.3AECO supports up to 7.3-2  < 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/os/swroll/VAROL.HTML  
 Any insight ?m   TIAy   -- n Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERd% Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.146 ************************