1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 15 Mar 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 147       Contents: Active Directory on Pathworks ! Re: Active Directory on Pathworks ! Re: Active Directory on Pathworks ! RE: Active Directory on Pathworks ! Re: Active Directory on Pathworks  ANN: Zip V2.31 is now available 8 Re: CDRECORD (et al.) v. VMS version: How many, how old?- Re: Changing Pathworks transport from NetBEUI  Re: Configure issue  Re: Configure issue  Re: DecWindows Redraw  Re: DIFF/IGNORE=WHITE_SPACE  Re: DIFF/IGNORE=WHITE_SPACE % DSPP emails- how do I make them STOP? ) Re: DSPP emails- how do I make them STOP? ) Re: DSPP emails- how do I make them STOP? ) Re: DSPP emails- how do I make them STOP? * RE: FW: DECC : toupper/tolower performance- Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question - Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question - Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question - Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question ) Hey Kerry - server consolidation question % RE: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO % Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO & Re: new Itanium after Tukwila: Poulson Re: Relative Record Number( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-TF Re: Transfering Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help pleaseP Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help please please p0 Transferring Executables to a VAX with Kermit-324 Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX with Kermit-32 Re: TSM questions?$ Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions$ Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions6 Re: VMS DCL program sometimes freeze in a pipe command6 Re: VMS DCL program sometimes freeze in a pipe command- RE: [OpenVMS V8.2, ASOVMS V7.3A4] Supported ? 6 [OT] Linux, was: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO: RE: [OT] Linux, was: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:50:03 GMT ( From: "John Hayes" <hayes1966@yahoo.com>& Subject: Active Directory on Pathworks: Message-ID: <v1lZd.9799$DW.829@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>  L Any idea when Active Directory will be incorporated into Pathworks Advanced 5 Server? Any news of it in the 8.1 release of OpenVMS?    John     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:05:06 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: Active Directory on PathworksB Message-ID: <1110830690.a24b99cc02bbf689a77ae377b9b91439@teranews>   John Hayes wrote:  > M > Any idea when Active Directory will be incorporated into Pathworks Advanced 7 > Server? Any news of it in the 8.1 release of OpenVMS?     H Hasn't HP end of lifed Advanced Server/pathworks in favour of Samba ? Or: is development still going on while HP makes up its mind ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:32:25 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>* Subject: Re: Active Directory on Pathworks< Message-ID: <dapZd.4440$QN1.3702@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   John Hayes wrote: N > Any idea when Active Directory will be incorporated into Pathworks Advanced 7 > Server? Any news of it in the 8.1 release of OpenVMS?  >  > John   >  > # Whoops, you mean its not there yet?    sigh   --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:57:44 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> * Subject: RE: Active Directory on PathworksR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594FE9@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----@ > From: Tim Llewellyn [mailto:tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk]=20 > Sent: March 14, 2005 6:32 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , > Subject: Re: Active Directory on Pathworks >=20 > John Hayes wrote: ? > > Any idea when Active Directory will be incorporated into=20  > Pathworks Advanced=20 9 > > Server? Any news of it in the 8.1 release of OpenVMS?  > >=20 > > John=20  > >=20 > >=20% > Whoops, you mean its not there yet?  >=20 > sigh >=20 > --=20   > tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   Tim,  E Can you expand on what you mean by Active Directory incorporated into  Advanced Server?  B Adv Server can plug-n-play as member servers with Windows 2000 and9 Windows 2003 server environments - is that what you mean?   
 Check out:2 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks/asovmsnew.html7 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/pathworks/advancedserver.html    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:10:07 -0500 1 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNOSP@Mhp.com> * Subject: Re: Active Directory on Pathworks, Message-ID: <lVrZd.14614$sN1.13800@fe03.lga>  A I'm not sure what you by "incorporated into Pathworks Advanced ".   J Advanced Server V7.3A and later could exist in a Win2K Native mode domain K (aka Active Directory).   The server acts as a member server in the Active  D Directory Domain.  Users are validated against the Active Directory.  - What exactly is it that you were looking for?    Brad4 "John Hayes" <hayes1966@yahoo.com> wrote in message 4 news:v1lZd.9799$DW.829@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...E > Any idea when Active Directory will be incorporated into Pathworks  @ > Advanced Server? Any news of it in the 8.1 release of OpenVMS? >  > John >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:06:18 -0600 - From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> ( Subject: ANN: Zip V2.31 is now available* Message-ID: <42365F3A.9050109@goatley.com>  8 Zip V2.31 has been released by the Info-Zip group.  I've; updated the copy in my archive, which includes binaries for , OpenVMS VAX, OpenVMS Alpha, and OpenVMS I64.  < Special thanks to Steven Schweda for doing most, if not all,  of the VMS work in this release.  1 New features in Zip 2.31, released 11 March 2005:   C     * security fix for buffer-overrun vulnerability (CAN-2004-1010) '     * better binary-detection algorithm J     * cryptographic sources ("zcrypt") now included and enabled by defaultG     * new VMS -VV option (stricter, ideal for VMS-only archives) vs. -V #       (more portable to other OSes) .     * better Visual Basic support in Win32 DLL2     * new AtheOS port (thanks to Ruslan Nickolaev)'     * makefile and project-file updates      * many other fixes       http://www.process.com/openvms/   3 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/zip.zip 8 http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/zip.zip  / ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/zip.zip 4 http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/zip.zip   And on the other mirrors soon.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ ; <goathunter@GOATLEY.COM>     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:54:38 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)A Subject: Re: CDRECORD (et al.) v. VMS version: How many, how old? 2 Message-ID: <05031417543805_27800279@antinode.org>  / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>   I > If it would be of any help, I have a VAX 5.5-2 system and both VAX and  & > Alpha systems running 6.x available. > I > Once you have CDRTOOLS building the way you want on 7.x, I may be able  - > to get them working on the earlier systems.   D    I have a VAX running VMS V5.5-2, too, but the V6.x Alpha might be useful.   G    The problem is less getting it to work than it is getting it to work D with minimally intrusive changes, as it would be nice to get any VMSD changes back into the main code stream, and among the virtues of theG Cdrtools author, an eagerness to accept changes is not most prominent.    D   The header file arrangement has changed considerably since the old? days, and code written with modern expectations does not easily D accomodate the old stuff.  Also, the C RTL tends to be missing a few things.   F    If no one really runs the stuff on obsolete infrastructure, there'sH not much point in wasting the effort.  So far, I haven't seen any demandE in this forum.  I haven't actually checked to see if the 1.x versions F could be built on VMS V5.5-2.  If not, there's _really_ not much point6 in wasting the effort trying to get the new one to go.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 20:23:49 -0800) From: "Guy Morris" <guy@sitevision.co.nz> 6 Subject: Re: Changing Pathworks transport from NetBEUIC Message-ID: <1110860629.936184.261580@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Hi,   F elfread told me that the server was unable to promote itself to masterD browser, because another machine had already done so.  I didn't look@ too carefully as the message about protected images having to beE installed looked like the likely culprit for the problem.  The server D is configured for ten clients, but it is unlikely in the near futureG that there will be more then two.  Do I even need the license server to  be running?   G I'm away from the machine (at the other end of the country for the next D few days) so can't immediately check to see the effect of increasingB the number of client sessions.  I'll check that when I get back to base.    Guy.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:37:20 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)  Subject: Re: Configure issue1 Message-ID: <4CmZd.1653$v6.1284@news.cpqcorp.net>   D In article <1110814429.555871.171290@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, % "Bobby" <colemanr7@yahoo.com> writes:   > >We use a specialty application that installs a command called* >"configuration", or "config" for short...E >                           ... I noticed a command called "configure * >galaxy" that I've never used before.  ...  A Be cautious if you decide to re-define the DCL command CONFIGURE.  (Or _any_ DCL command!)   C Keep in mind that all procedures provided with OpenVMS and LPs will F assume that CONFIGURE has the CONFIGURE GALAXY meaning.  If it envokes: something else, strange and wonderful problems can result.  B In the short term, setting up a symbol to point to your configure @ can work.  In the long term, I recommend you choose another nameB for your command.  XCONFIG might be one possibility.  Or choose a B name that relates to your speicalty application.  The effort to do0 this is likely to pay dividends in the long run.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 13:32:41 -0800# From: "Bobby" <colemanr7@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: Configure issueC Message-ID: <1110835961.251542.159490@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   B Thanks for the replies.  I had just about decided to do the latterE (point a new command at the .exe we use) but was concerned that other F parts of the package may expect to see this command "as-is".  Based onD your input, I'll toy with this first to see if I can just rename ourF "special" command without affecting the rest of the system.  I'll alsoG need to update the help system since the package adds help for each its 	 commands.   G What I don't understand is why this just started happening? The command E worked fine until I installed the update patches.  Is config galaxy a  new command?   Bobby    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 12:26:27 -0800# From: "Bobby" <colemanr7@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: DecWindows RedrawB Message-ID: <1110831987.161938.85900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  E I noticed that HP just released a MOTIF update patch for 7.3-2 (i.e., F DWMOTIF 1.3-1).  We are running 7.3-1 (MOTIF 1.3).  Is a similar patch expected for 7.3-1?    Thanks,  Bobby    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:03:49 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> $ Subject: Re: DIFF/IGNORE=WHITE_SPACEE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503141403160.11952@localhost.localdomain>   % On Sun, 13 Mar 2005, Guy Peleg wrote:   2 > I'm happy to report that we have implemented the; > request and it will ship with the next version of the O/S    Outstanding!  Thank you.     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 20:45:59 -06004 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)$ Subject: Re: DIFF/IGNORE=WHITE_SPACE3 Message-ID: <wWeHObPJSoZB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   I OK, now how about the new option I've been asking to ahve included for at  least TWO DECADES:   $ set term /NOTYPO   :-)   J (you can see why I need it above, that was an accident, but I deliberately# left it as it came off my keyboard)   1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" & 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<K Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  I         You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a C         reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about I         repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the 7         struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:23:20 -0800 % From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> . Subject: DSPP emails- how do I make them STOP?7 Message-ID: <3f119ada050314142360879dd1@mail.gmail.com>   F Ever since attending IDF in December, I get DSPP emails that I have noA interest in. There appears to be no way of making them stop. It's B really not making me feel warm and fuzzy. Anyone have a contact of> someone who controls that list, or do I just blacklist hp.com?   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 19:15:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: DSPP emails- how do I make them STOP?3 Message-ID: <gMBz6XKpvMP1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <3f119ada050314142360879dd1@mail.gmail.com>, DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> writes: H > Ever since attending IDF in December, I get DSPP emails that I have noC > interest in. There appears to be no way of making them stop. It's D > really not making me feel warm and fuzzy. Anyone have a contact of@ > someone who controls that list, or do I just blacklist hp.com?  E Give them an address at sneakemail.com that you can disable when they @ repeatedly violate your instructions.  That's what works for me.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:39:00 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: DSPP emails- how do I make them STOP?B Message-ID: <1110850700.2c86c1eb45668847882abf32239975d6@teranews>   DeanW wrote: > H > Ever since attending IDF in December, I get DSPP emails that I have noC > interest in. There appears to be no way of making them stop. It's D > really not making me feel warm and fuzzy. Anyone have a contact of@ > someone who controls that list, or do I just blacklist hp.com?  C Look at the headers. You mayt find a  Return-Path: line at the top, F which ,may include an email address that identifies yours and the mailF processor at the other end would know that the message to you bounced.D You have to send a non deliverty notification to it from Postmaster.A (use define TCPIP$SMTP_FROM_ADDRESS to make yourself postmaster),    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 21:18:48 -0800! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com 2 Subject: Re: DSPP emails- how do I make them STOP?B Message-ID: <1110863928.555221.92550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Dean,   G If none of the suggestions work send me email at my HP email and I will  see what I can do.   Sue    DeanW wrote:E > Ever since attending IDF in December, I get DSPP emails that I have  noC > interest in. There appears to be no way of making them stop. It's D > really not making me feel warm and fuzzy. Anyone have a contact of@ > someone who controls that list, or do I just blacklist hp.com?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:50:16 +1100 6 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au>3 Subject: RE: FW: DECC : toupper/tolower performance X Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05F64E@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>   -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]" Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2005 03:46 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 Subject: Re: FW: DECC : toupper/tolower performance       B >BTW, please find some way to not post in HTML from your Microsoft  >machine. I knwo it is possible.  : I apologise to the group, I was unaware that was the case.  L Well I am now on *a* Microsoft machine, but I wasn't then.  It looks like I=L 'm going to have to borrow a colleague's machine anytime I want to send mai= l :-(   L First I had VMS mail - that was taken away from me.  Then I was able to acc= ess=20L my Outlook account using Mozilla mail.  That disappeared when they upgraded=L  Exchange.  So the only way I can get to my mail from my VMS box is via Out=L look web access.  This is ghastly, worse than Outlook which is worse than M=L ozilla, which I started to get slightly cuddly with.  At least my local fol=. ders were on my disks.  Now I haven't got any.  L The options with web access are primitive and setting text format is not on=L e of them, neither on the sidebar nor in the send window.  To reply, I have=L  to forward and try to remember to erase the FW (don't aways remember, e.g.=  above) L On a reply, it won't let me erase the to: line to replace with info-vax add=L ress.  I can add another to:, but it's still sending to the poster's addres=> s or to a spamified address, neither of which are a good idea.  A >In terms of accented charavcters, the lack of uppercase accented I >charaters was due to limitations in mechanical typewriters. But with the H >advent of computers, uppercase accented characters did become possible,E >and this was included in the DEC multi national character set of the L >arly 1980s and adopted as ISO-LATIN1 and has since become quite common use. > I >It is even odd today when you see non-accented uppercase characters when " >you know they should be accented. >   >Biscuit SAL=C9 -> salted cookie >Bisciot SALE -> dirty cooky.      Thanks for the information.    Regards, Paddy    G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged @ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 ? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:34:07 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk6 Subject: Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question) Message-ID: <d14lev$4e7$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   r In article <1110821038.9d8db8f6a4b813593e9362ddef645f9f@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> Anti-spam - >>  % >> Precisemail anti-spam from Process  >>  < >> I don't think you can fault Process on commitment to VMS. >  > D >What would be needed is a consitant long term set of press releasesF >announcing that their product has been updated to include filters forA >this week's strain of Microsoft viri, and hopefully do the press  >releases before Symantec. > F >Potential customers need to see that Precisemail is a really completeF >and up-to-date and "alive" piece of software that is state fo the artF >and build to run today, npt built to run in the 1980s, which was what6 >most VMS sosftware is really about in terms of image. >   E You mean like appearing in the spam tests run by NetworkWorld Fusion   see   - http://www.process.com/precisemail/top10.html     L Though the out of the box false positive rate meant they didn't get into the in-depth examination. K (they decided on a shortlist of products detecting greater than 90% of spam & with less than 1% false positive rate.J Precisemail scored 98% detection rate with 3.15% false positive (I think -N there are actually two sets of scores for Precisemail since they set a config = variable wrong when first running it - the other scores being G 96% detection and 0.75% false positive. I assume this was the incorrect H result since they appear to have been excluded from the in depth review.    B I note that this particular selection of values allowed in Sophos D 90% detection rate but 0.04% false positive but excluded PrecisemailK even though these figures actually mean Precisemail was detecting much more  spam correctly than Sophos.      )   ? Of course they probably weren't running the test on VMS anyway.       
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University    I >People shy away from VMS because they don't see it as a quickly evolving H >environment that keeps up with today's changes.  They still see VMS as N >character cell OS from the 1980s and don't see big news about updates to VMS. > E >The fact that HP is 200% mum about decwidnows in the roadmap doesn't 1 >help kill the myth that VMS is an antiquated OS.  > E >If HP got together with Process for VMS marketing, good things would  >really happen.    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:40:29 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk6 Subject: Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question) Message-ID: <d14lqt$4e7$2@news.mdx.ac.uk>   R In article <UbednbjX74KAVqjfRVn-3A@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:< >> In article <naudneZhzpdiZanfRVn-rg@igs.net>, "John Smith" >> <a@nonymous.com> writes:  >>> Tim Llewellyn wrote: >>>> Main, Kerry wrote:  >>>> >>>>>  >>> B >> For anti-virus just having Sophos Sweep rather than a choice of@ >> products is a possible problem. The focus for pretty much any  >> anti-virus vendor is going toH >> be Microsoft OSs since that is where the main problem is. However VMS	 >> is NOT E >> on their list of OSs which have a date for when Sophos development  >> would be stopped  >> >> see >>. >> http://www.sophos.com/support/timeline.html >> >> >> >>D >> One problem in the past has been integrating Sophos with VMS mailH >> solutions. Sophos would integrate easily with PMDF but not easily (or >> possibly at all) $ >> with other mail solutions on VMS.B >> The latest beta of Precisemail anti-spam includes an anti-virus? >> module which works with Sophos. Hence you can now easily use  >> Precisemail, Sophos and say
 >> UCX's SMTP  >> >> see >>4 >> http://www.process.com/precisemail/pmas22beta.asp >  > G >The real issue is lack of choice because there isn't volume in the VMS L >market. Stalker can use three AV plugins from different vendors but none of >those run on VMS. > H >So a Stalker/VMS-based mail solution will run fine on the server but do3 >nothing for the AV issues the PC users experience.  >   / Does Stalker have it's own Anti-spam solution ? K If it doesn't then a combination of Precisemail (running in SMTP proxy mode M on the same box ) and Stalker would allow the use of Sophos with Precisemail  B see the url above for the features of the latest Precisemail beta.     
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University  G >PDMF may be a solution, and if so, it's about the only one. Too little L >choice for some organizations - no leverage in negotiations, no competitionL >to improve at a rapid rate - I'm not knocking Process about this but ratherM >making a general statement about lack of competition and the pace of product 
 >improvement.  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:03:44 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation questionB Message-ID: <1110830608.4747ee850e4f03ab5a6306b9407e9be3@teranews>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: F > You mean like appearing in the spam tests run by NetworkWorld Fusion > see  > / > http://www.process.com/precisemail/top10.html   F This page mentions only spam. It doesn't talk about viri. (and what isD with the whole series of blue rectangles at the bottom of page ? Are" they meant to contain anything ?).  G The point is that when Microsoft or its supporters unleash a new virus, E the VMS products must be seen as leaders in the pack to integrate the 4 new Virus's signatuire into they anti-virus filters.   And that means marketing.   D VMS itself may be immune to the Microsoft software/virus, but if youE serve employees who risk their lives with mcirosoft software, the VMS D host must provide a bulletproof protection against viri destined for Microsoft machines.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:20:28 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question, Message-ID: <NLidnc52eda1navfRVn-hA@igs.net>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: ; > In article <UbednbjX74KAVqjfRVn-3A@igs.net>, "John Smith"  > <a@nonymous.com> writes:" >> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:= >>> In article <naudneZhzpdiZanfRVn-rg@igs.net>, "John Smith"  >>> <a@nonymous.com> writes: >>>> Tim Llewellyn wrote:  >>>>> Main, Kerry wrote: >>>>>  >>>>>> >>>>C >>> For anti-virus just having Sophos Sweep rather than a choice of A >>> products is a possible problem. The focus for pretty much any ! >>> anti-virus vendor is going to E >>> be Microsoft OSs since that is where the main problem is. However  >>> VMS is NOTF >>> on their list of OSs which have a date for when Sophos development >>> would be stopped >>>  >>> see  >>> / >>> http://www.sophos.com/support/timeline.html  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>> E >>> One problem in the past has been integrating Sophos with VMS mail E >>> solutions. Sophos would integrate easily with PMDF but not easily  >>> (or possibly at all)% >>> with other mail solutions on VMS. C >>> The latest beta of Precisemail anti-spam includes an anti-virus @ >>> module which works with Sophos. Hence you can now easily use >>> Precisemail, Sophos and say  >>> UCX's SMTP >>>  >>> see  >>> 5 >>> http://www.process.com/precisemail/pmas22beta.asp  >> >>E >> The real issue is lack of choice because there isn't volume in the F >> VMS market. Stalker can use three AV plugins from different vendors  >> but none of those run on VMS. >>G >> So a Stalker/VMS-based mail solution will run fine on the server but 8 >> do nothing for the AV issues the PC users experience. >> > 1 > Does Stalker have it's own Anti-spam solution ? B > If it doesn't then a combination of Precisemail (running in SMTP > proxy modeB > on the same box ) and Stalker would allow the use of Sophos with
 > Precisemail D > see the url above for the features of the latest Precisemail beta.     Okay.  Will check it out.   
 Thank you.     --4 OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with,                      the dwindling ISV base.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 16:43:35 -0800( From: greigaln@netscape.net (Alan Greig)2 Subject: Hey Kerry - server consolidation question= Message-ID: <d391276d.0503141643.6e0cca7b@posting.google.com>    Tim Llewellyn wrote:  W > Living in Windows, Outlook and Novell land at present and getting far to familar with  > syware removal :-(.   @ I don't normally recommend people immediately download Microsoft@ Products but I urge anyone running Windows to download MicrosoftA Anti-Spyware Beta unless you are  absolutely sure of your systems F integrity. It found and fixed a number of problems some other productsB didn't. Not written by Microsoft, they just purchased the company.  D It implements dynamic protection so it's not just a case of cleaningB up after the infection. The amount of spyware sitting on a typical> windows machine is truly astonishing. Much is potentially moreE destructive than most actual viruses and *many* allow complete remote F control of the infected machine. It seems to me that spyware is just a virus with a copyright notice.  E Even if you are happy with a current anti-spyware product I recommend  checking it out.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:02:39 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> . Subject: RE: HP on fast track to finding a CEOR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594FBB@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]=20  > Sent: March 14, 2005 1:29 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 > Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO >=20 >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > > F > > Actually, what we are really talking about is how much risk is the> > > Customer willing to take on them selves. Yes, there are=20 > some benefits  > ofB > > Open Source, but there is also a cost in terms of technical=20 > resources H > > required to do this support (coding, testing, QA, documentation) and9 > > potential downtime - especially in 24x7 environments.  >=20B > what cost?  If HP would keep a couple of "c" programmers to work@ > to exclusively port key opensource pieces to vms (i.e. apache)> > that cost would be minimal ... and just think of the revenue. > stream those 2 c programmers could generate! >=20  F Actually, I was referring to Customers maintaining their own technical> support staff for maintaining things like OS/driver/misc code.  A HP does have a number (no, I do not know how many) of programmers G working on Open Source code for OpenVMS. As you mentioned, the Apache / E OpenVMS prod is one example. Other examples include security, browser > and source code products like Netbeans etc. Others as well.=20  H There are also other resources like Turin University that are also doing work in this area.  
 Reference:G http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/integrity_video_script.html * (scroll down to Turin University comments)? "We have successfully ported security application to OpenVMS on F Integrity servers and realized a 30% performance gain in cryptographicF algorithms. In the next year the Politecnico will increase greatly itsF size and scope. So also the computing infrastructure must be extremelyH flexible, scalability, cost effective and preserving today's investment.E We are confident that HP can give us in the future as in the past all  these values."   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:22:54 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> . Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO, Message-ID: <LoydnQuqkvgnnavfRVn-vw@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- / >> From: Dan Foster [mailto:usenet@evilphb.org]   >> Sent: March 14, 2005 12:18 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 >> Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO  >>
 >> In article A >> <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594F9F@tayexc19.americas.cpqc 3 >> orp.net>, Main, Kerry <kerry.main@hp.com> wrote:  >>> F >>> So what happens when the Customer modifies the kernel and some ISV. >>> application breaks or behaves differently? >>G >> No different from if the Customer had done something equivalent withrD >> a closed source software. Customer would likely be told to revertE >> first before support would proceed, as is customary practice. Someo
 >> additionaln8 >> options may exist but these would be vendor-specific. > @ > Sigh... I likely will regret going down this murky road, but - >PF > How many Customers can afford to roll back production environents toG > reproduce problems that are only seen under heavy load etc? When Prod F > problems happen, many Cust's need fixes with minimal impact on their7 > prod environment and "rolling" back is not an option.c >oH > It sounds like your environment is such that you are comfortable doing+ > your own support and that is fine. Great.  > G > However, other Customers do not want to maintain OS and kernel driverqE > changes - they want to focus on other areas of the business and lett1 > the vendors worry about these low level issues.  >  >>F >>> For some Customers, running production support with limited vendor; >>> support for their applications after they make internalR >> changes in OS oru; >>> application is an acceptable risk. For others, the "oneR >> throat to choke"u) >>> is very much the way they are moving.s >># >> Allow me to point out something:s >>D >> Customers who are disciplined enough to run production systems on: >> closed source platforms will not likely suddenly pull a >> Jekyll-and-Hyde? >> situation and behave differently with open source platforms.  >>5 >> We run both types of platforms, and apply the sameK >> operational practicesC >> and standards to both. After all, why would we treat operationalq: >> requirements any different regardless of platform type? >> >eE > We all know that no matter how much testing you do, many issues can,? > still occur in production environment. If you are comfortablecC > resolving these on your own or alternatively "rolling back", theni! > that is certainly one approach.- >-F > As much as possible, other Cust's want the vendors to fix these OS / > driver level issues. >e ><? >> Anyone who is really that undisciplined enough to be loadings >> unsupportedD >> code versions (or code modifications) and needs external support,E >> will reap what they sow. This is true regardless of open or closedt
 >> source. >>9 >> Open source platforms *do* have their healthy share of- >> issues, but this H >> particularly dubious example of FUD isn't one of them -- that is, not >> specific to open source.P >> >s >eG >> Might I suggest use of better examples to buttress your position? ;)H >> >> -Dan  > D > Actually, what we are really talking about is how much risk is theG > Customer willing to take on them selves. Yes, there are some benefitsa@ > of Open Source, but there is also a cost in terms of technical= > resources required to do this support (coding, testing, QA,?< > documentation) and potential downtime - especially in 24x7 > environments.m    L And quality of people too. There are precious few people I'd let muck aroundG with a kernel vs. the number who'd be ok at application level coding or  report writing.e   --4 OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with,                      the dwindling ISV base.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:26:12 -0500i# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i. Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO, Message-ID: <88KdncUv1vfinKvfRVn-hQ@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- 9 >> From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]8 >> Sent: March 14, 2005 1:29 PME >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 >> Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEOw >> >> >> Main, Kerry wrote:e >>>rF >>> Actually, what we are really talking about is how much risk is the; >>> Customer willing to take on them selves. Yes, there areH >> some benefits >> ofa? >>> Open Source, but there is also a cost in terms of technical ? >>> resources required to do this support (coding, testing, QA,e> >>> documentation) and potential downtime - especially in 24x7 >>> environments.  >>C >> what cost?  If HP would keep a couple of "c" programmers to work A >> to exclusively port key opensource pieces to vms (i.e. apache)i? >> that cost would be minimal ... and just think of the revenuer/ >> stream those 2 c programmers could generate!n >> >nH > Actually, I was referring to Customers maintaining their own technical@ > support staff for maintaining things like OS/driver/misc code. >vC > HP does have a number (no, I do not know how many) of programmersaG > working on Open Source code for OpenVMS. As you mentioned, the ApacherA > / OpenVMS prod is one example. Other examples include security, E > browser and source code products like Netbeans etc. Others as well.e >oD > There are also other resources like Turin University that are also > doing work in this area. >v > Reference:I > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/integrity_video_script.htmla, > (scroll down to Turin University comments)A > "We have successfully ported security application to OpenVMS onvH > Integrity servers and realized a 30% performance gain in cryptographicH > algorithms. In the next year the Politecnico will increase greatly itsH > size and scope. So also the computing infrastructure must be extremely> > flexible, scalability, cost effective and preserving today'sF > investment. We are confident that HP can give us in the future as in > the past all these values."P    L Come on Kerry.....Turin's old news....how about some others participating in the programme.  H Come to thing of it, how about the latest $50MM OpenVMS deals too. AfterF all...VMS is growing by leaps and bounds (double digits....or did thatF really just mean that HP sold somewhere between 10-99 VMS servers last year?)   --4 OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with,                      the dwindling ISV base.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:53:44 -0600f2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO+ Message-ID: <42364028.4FA93403@comcast.net>e   "Main, Kerry" wrote: > [snip] > [quoting from an article]eG > Asked whether IBM's eventual goal is to replace AIX with Linux, MillsnF > responded, "It's fairly obvious we're fine with that idea...It's the > logical successor."   : Hhmmm... Wonder what VMS's "logical successor" would be...  & > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..  < Well, perhaps, yes - VMS has had more of it than its owners.    > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."  < Hhmmm... I wonder if "Integrity Systems, Inc." is registered# (registerable?) as a trade mark...?/   -- o David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsz http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:w" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/h   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:50:11 -0600e2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>/ Subject: Re: new Itanium after Tukwila: Poulson-* Message-ID: <42363F53.413E069@comcast.net>   Rob Young wrote: > b > In article <42310008.A7D8769F@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > > Bob Koehler wrote: > >>s > >> In article <1109987230.367785.7860@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> writes:  > >> >G > >> > Easy. You take a frozen version of the VMS source. Hand it to an B > >> > engineer locked in a dark room and say "show we can do it".G > >> > Only after you have made the decision to go do you risk leaks by M > >> > starting to synch the projects. But if do you make a final decision to L > >> > move forward I guess you announce it fairly quickly. I am reminded ofM > >> > the (apocryphal?) mad VMS engineer who allegedly proved VMS could worktL > >> > on Itanium before the actual port. I just hope something like this is > >> > happening.f > >>I > >>    Almost exactly the mistake made when DEC ported VMS to Alpha, andsB > >>    a large part of why VAXen got left behind on new features. > > 8 > > Sounds amazingly like Emerald, or even Alpha Multia. > >  > G >         But in fairness a number of the improvements could never make L >         it to VAX (64-bit based, XFC, locks in S2, etc.).  Besides, as youI >         wind down an architecture the idea is to make it ever so slowly-L >         more painful to be on the architecture.  Not quickly - but slowly.E >         If you blunder (like some transitions, Sun with Motorola touK >         SPARC didn't go so smooth in my opinion) , the base gets hostile.2  G Actually, the blunder is usually in the handling of the transition (or,nB in IA32's case, the failure to execute). That's 100% guaranteed toA incite the base ebcome "hostile", ala Shrek: "grab your torch andt pitchfork!".   -- e David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:a" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/t   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 17:08:03 -0800 From: dooleys@snowy.net.au# Subject: Re: Relative Record NumberoB Message-ID: <1110848883.210493.25160@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Jan van der Weijde wrote:e > Hello, >ID > for an RMS adapter I am writing in C I need to know how to get the RRN for G > all RMS file organizations that support it. The adapter is capable ofdE > accessing relative and sequential RMS files. Random access using anc RRN isE > already possible, however I also like to have the RRN value after ao sys$getb > and sys$put.G > For relative files I think the bucket code field rab$l_bkt of the RABmA > structure contains the RRN after get and put. Is that correct ? D > And what structure field can I use to retrieve the RRN value for a" > sequential (fixed record) file ? >c > Thank you, > Jan & >From RMS reference manual section 7.8	 RAB$L_KBF E When the RAB$B_RAC (record access mode) field specifies random accessSG by key value, this field provides the address of a buffer that containsIG the key of the desired record. The key is the relative record number in F files that are organized for relative access or in files organized for2 sequential access containing fixed-length records. Phil   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 12:49:42 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T.3 Message-ID: <kbl9g3aefDx8@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  U In article <39lf7pF642ci5U1@individual.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:h > A > Owner, Group and World could be used, just as for SHOW PROCESS.l >   H True. However, there's also the issue of doing a remote CTRL-T while theH target process is doing, for example, a BACKUP. Will the QIO's issued byJ BACKUP while the CTRL-T AST is active be passed back to the user doing the: remote CTRL-T giving them a list of files been backed up ?   Simon.   -- wB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st centurye   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:22:08 GMTr% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>h1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-Te< Message-ID: <AvlZd.5035$ZB6.1258@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>  H "Simon Clubley" <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote in 5 message news:kbl9g3aefDx8@eisner.encompasserve.org... : > In article <39lf7pF642ci5U1@individual.net>, Paul Sture  > <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:r >>B >> Owner, Group and World could be used, just as for SHOW PROCESS. >> >dJ > True. However, there's also the issue of doing a remote CTRL-T while theJ > target process is doing, for example, a BACKUP. Will the QIO's issued byL > BACKUP while the CTRL-T AST is active be passed back to the user doing the< > remote CTRL-T giving them a list of files been backed up ? >-  G I don't think the remote process will see a Ctrl/T.  The local process mC that's handling the Ctrl/T is going to call sys$getjpi to get some .K statistics to display, right now it always passes 0 for the PID, this is a P; way to specify a different (hopefully more meaningful) PID.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:40:35 +0200a0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com>1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T.* Message-ID: <4235cd8e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message5 news:zgjZd.9750$DW.1952@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com... - > "Barry" <dysert@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1110807380.240530.94100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...K > > Doing F$CTRLT(PID) makes more sense than requiring the user to define aBH > > logical to get the info from another PID.  In fact, it makes it moreI > > consistent ala F$GETJPI.  As for its usefulness, I too would probablyaH > > still use SH PROC/CONT on the remote process.  So while F$CTRLT(PID)9 > > would a a nicety, I don't see much practical benefit.i > >  > I > I don't think you understand the idea.  If you have a program that does8 mostI > of its work in subprocesses (like MMS), after you create the subprocessi youBJ > call sys$crelnm to define DCL$CTRLT_PID to be the PID of the subprocess.K > Then, when the user presses Ctrl/T, they will see the statistics from the G > subprocess rather than the statistics from the main process (which ise idle,n > waiting for the subprocess). >iH > I like the idea and I hope that the maintainers of MMS put to good use > (quickly). >  > 9 Just note it will be a symbol and not a logical name.....-   Guy-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:42:06 +0200d0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com>1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T1* Message-ID: <4235cde8@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:g7DM5lqmfx1I@eisner.encompasserve.org... 9 > In article <39lf7pF642ci5U1@individual.net>, Paul Sture  <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:n > > Simon Clubley wrote: > > ; > >> In article <4233fdfc@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" & <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> writes: > >>< > >>>Do you like the idea of remote CTRL-T? Will you be able > >>>to use it?m > >>>  > >> > >>8 > >> What privilege will be required for this facility ? > >>H > >> (In order to stop non-privileged users from tracking which programs othervK > >> users are running; at the moment they need to have access to a programe like1 > >> finger in order to obtain this information).' > > C > > Owner, Group and World could be used, just as for SHOW PROCESS.  >eE > The privileges required _should_ be GROUP or WORLD to be consistent  > with the rest of VMS.c   CTRL-T uses $GETJPI....n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:41:46 +0200 0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com>1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-Tm, Message-ID: <4235cdd3$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message5 news:GpjZd.9755$DW.4669@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...:C > "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au> wrote in messageI >vR news:8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE0E@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local...L > >I forget who mentioned it, but CTRL^T shows useful information in BACKUP.H > >I agree with your useful concept >here, but would think that firstly, other K > >DCL commands could exhibit BACKUP's behaviour.  A first candidate >wouldhG > >likely be copy.  Others that spring to mind are some of the SET FILEh > >options.e  > With V8.2 COPY shows progress (like bakcup) when CTRL-T is hit > H > This concept makes it easier for a tool to show useful information viaF > Ctrl/T.  Without Guy's DCL$CTRLT logical, a utility has to intercept Ctrl/TI > and re-implement the existing Ctrl/T output and then display additionalkI > information.  With DCL$CTRLT, it just has to call sys$crelnm to set the.F > value of the logical name.  Also, DCL command procedures and provide better3 > feedback via Ctrl/T by defining the logical name.: > J > >In other words, I think that you should look at what useful information youeL > >could give us from within standard >DCL.  Then give us the ability to add? > >our own, which I then think would be lesserly (? :-) needed.h >oL > >Not sure how I would consider using the remote feature.  What does CTRL^T@ > >give that I can't get for a remote >process from sho process? > I > How are you going to do a SHOW PROCESS when you're running MMS from theeI > command line?  These two logicals are perfect form MMS, it could defineoL > DCL$CTRLT to be a message about which what is being compiled or linked andL > it could define DCL$CTRLT_PID to be the PID of the subprocess that's doing > the work.o > F > It's easy for MMS to implement and you get better information out of Ctrl/T.e >y >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:03:22 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T + Message-ID: <4236426A.47A4C48C@comcast.net>    "Steven M. Schweda" wrote: > 2 > From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_hp.com> > = > > For the next OpenVMS release, I have added the ability to > > > customize the output of CTRL-T. The contents of the symbol5 > > DCL$CTRLT will be appended to the standard CTRL-T  > > output.l > G >    Can DCL$CTRLT be an expression with variable results (evaluated atu > CRTL/T time)?r > : > > While doing that, I thought about a new concept remote0 > > CTRL-T. Assuming that DCL$CTRLT_PID contains) > > a process ID,  the CTRL-T informationw4 > > displayed will be the one of the remote process. > J >    It might also be handy to have a lexical function like F$CTRLT( PID),J > which could return the same data in a less interactive context.  PerhapsH > a single CTRL/T could report on multiple processes.  For example, whenH > running MMS, CTRL/T tells about the top-level MMS process, but all the% > work is being done by subprocesses.f > ; > > Do you like the idea of remote CTRL-T? Will you be ablec > > to use it? >  >    Sounds entertaining to me.c  & I like Steven's idea of F$CTLT( pid ).  E I could also see a use for F$CTLY( pid ) or F$CTLC( pid ), or perhapscG combine it all into F$CTRL( pid, char ) where "char" could be any of C,aH M, O, Q, S, T, Y or Z, and would cause the process to respond as if that@ key combo had been pressed on a terminal connected to the stdcmd (SYS$COMMAND) stream.e  A Better still would be an F$FORCE( ddcu ) ala the FORCE command tou RSTS/E's UTILTY facility...B   -- S David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:*" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/d   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:25:15 -0600v2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>O Subject: Re: Transfering Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help please + Message-ID: <4236478A.BD9DDA3C@comcast.net>e  ) John.Martin_At_Home@BTInternet.com wrote:i > F > My MicroVAX 3100 only has terminal connections to the outside world.I > One of these is to a PC running Windows2000. I have downloaded from thewG > Web onto the PC a number of VAX executables. These I want to transfery
 > to the VAX.vG > I have basic old Kermit-32 running on the VAX but it will not support E > correct transfer of binary files from the PC (ironically one of the*D > executables I want to transfer is CKermit which does fully supportF > binary transfers). I have Hexify and Dehexify running on the VAX butI > need a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify so that I can transfer CKermito > as a text file.n >  > Two questions/requests:s > H > 1. Is my method flawed in that the PC has 'lost' already the necessaryH > file structure information, so any VAX executable file that has passed; > via the PCs hard disk will fail to run on the VAX itself?f > I > 2. Does anyone have a PC version of Hexify and Dehexify, or perhaps the.G > format and checksum information so that I can write a PC version.  MyeA > competence at VAX Macro means I am struggling to understand thel7 > required format from the VAX assembler copies I have.f  = I don't know if this can help, but if you can manage to get asB block-by-block VMS DUMP of the file transfer program and/or the IPH software saveset(s) or whatever, I have a piece of DCL that will convertG the DUMP output back to fixed-512.  From there you can SET FILE/ATTR tofE correct the file format (RFM), the longest record length (LRL), etc.    G I'd expect it to be torturously slow on any VAX prior to a VAX 6000-400cG or better, but if you can let in run overnight (or two), it should workr
 just fine.  
 See this URL:o# http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/e   ...and get:t. http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/dmp2bin.dcl  & Rename it to a .COM before you run it.   -- c David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:o" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/e   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:11:16 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>Y Subject: Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX by a tortuous route - help please please pt+ Message-ID: <42364444.F998D48F@comcast.net>    > O'Brien Paddy wrote: > H > Whether this helps or not, my colleagues use something called VAXLINK2E > to transfer from their PCs to their VMS accounts.  I know not whereeE > they obtained this, but they asked me to put it into a system area,  > and I found it safe.  D VAXLINK2 is the host-side portion of WRQ's proprietary file transferC protocol. It predecessor was VAXLINK, and the ALpha counter-part isbG ALPHALK2 (most folks rename it to VAXLINK2, or set up a logical name atn, some level which invokes the correct image).  F VAXLINK(2) shipped with WRQ's Reflection terminal programs back in the> DOS days, and still is found on current distro.'s for Windows.  C I've not heard whether an I64 image will be available. I've not yeteE tried AESTing ALPHALK2. (Actually I think I did, but the results were  less than successful.) q  E We've been known to hear from WRQ denizens in this forum. Perhaps one. will pipe up with some input...n   -- z David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems" http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:K" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/d   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 15:50:50 -0800( From: greigaln@netscape.net (Alan Greig)9 Subject: Transferring Executables to a VAX with Kermit-32o< Message-ID: <d391276d.0503141550.18a3ed0@posting.google.com>   Jeff Cameron wrote:n  D > Thank you, I will check it out and find out for certain. I base my+ > conclusion on the prompt being Kermit-32.   ? Sounds pretty convincing if it says that. A number of companiesoE continued to distribute modified versions of Kermit-32 with their owniD products. It does look, based on what you say, that you may have oneA of those versions. The first few releases of C-Kermit on VMS weresD pretty flaky (to say the least!) which is why many people stuck withD Kermit-32 but an Alpha version would almost certainly violate KermitD distribution rights, if bundled, which they tightened up a number of> years ago. Kermit even had to be removed from the VMS freeware distribution because of this.s  D In any case if you do make regular use of Kermit you should at least0 check out  C-Kermit and speed up your transfers.  F It just shows how upwards compatible VMS is that old executables never die :)   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:20:59 GMTi% From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>y= Subject: Re: Transferring Executables to a VAX with Kermit-32tE Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0503141717100.13582@localhost.localdomain>o  & On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, Alan Greig wrote:   > Jeff Cameron wrote:r > E >> Thank you, I will check it out and find out for certain. I base myn, >> conclusion on the prompt being Kermit-32. >n+ > Sounds pretty convincing if it says that.   F I note that C-Kermit has a "set prompt" command, so I was able to set  mine to prompt "Kermit-32>".  B Just for grins, type "show version" at the prompt and see what it @ says.  C-Kermit 8 says a whole bunch of stuff, starting out with   ::::Kermit-32>show version ::::
 ::::Versions: " :::: C-Kermit 8.0.206, 24 Oct 2002     -- N  B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free!i6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX)n2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:45:44 -0500s- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>n Subject: Re: TSM questions?i1 Message-ID: <1b6dnSrPmPD3x6vfRVn-3g@adelphia.com>m   Bob Kaplow wrote:iJ > We use the (old, unsupported) TSM to save our terminal server context soM > that we can reload it when one fails. We also compare the context to detectn< > changes and report when they are found. The script used is > TSM$NA_V23_GET_CHAR.COM, > I > Last week a DS700 died. We took the saved config and restored it to the:E > replacement server. Then we discovered that a printer wasn't set upvK > properly. I searched all of our saved configs and could not find a DEFINE4H > PRINTER command anywhere, even though we have several set up. Makes me4 > wonder what else isn't getting saved and restored. > L > Is there a newer version of the script somewhere that will fix my problem?   You can try the ones at:  8 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/tsm_tools/  * You may need to modify them for the DS700.   -Johns wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyy   ------------------------------   Date: 14 MAR 2005 12:29:32 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)- Subject: Re: UPS/Power conditioning questionsv6 Message-ID: <14MAR05.12293201@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  " In a previous article, Rick jordan  H ->     My previous employer always wanted the FERRUPS units for critical? ->systems (not that they always had the budget), and if I had auG ->commercial budget instead of a hobbyist budget (hence the APC BackupsoH ->Pro 1100) they're still what I'd look at getting (whatever the current/ ->owner's name is; I know Best got bought out).   F I've always liked these units too. As of 2003, these and the Powerware= 9xxx are the only models still made in the US at the original  plant in Necedah, WI.s  E A caution for the ferrups though: Be sure to always specify the "DVR"oD option (Digital Voltage Regulation) for use with new equipment (withG "power factor corrected" power supplies). Without that option a Ferrups.D 7KVA unit would be come unstable (trip out in the first .5 sec) whenE running an EVA 5000 on battery power. The DVR option is not something " that can be field installed later.   --K -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison, WIM6 --               karcher.nomorespqm@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------   Date: 14 Mar 05 14:26:35 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook)b- Subject: Re: UPS/Power conditioning questionso! Message-ID: <v0gyQd5L6VxY@wvnvms>e  M In article <42356826.914B2DD@hotmail.com>, w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com> writes:-  0 >   Definition of 'sufficient earthing' has been= > misrepresented.  As supplementary books noted, the earthingH4 > system is dependent on something that is no longer> > dependable.  Plastic pipe can be used. Plumbers, who have no= > concern about things electrical, can do other things.  Whatr< > then provides the so critical earthing system?  Cold water@ > pipe is no longer acceptable as the earthing system because it@ > is not reliable.  At best, it is supplementary earthing.  What6 > is sufficient earthing?  Something that makes a good> > connection to earth?  NO.  Something that will ALWAYS make a@ > good earthing connection.  Changing condition resulted in 1990 > code changes.o  ; The code people simply noticed a possible failure mode of aa@ perfectly sufficient earthing method and came up with a solutionA to prevent that failure mode.  All earthing methods have at leaste; one failure mode.  The main failure mode of my parent's rod ; electrode was having the wire detached from it when cuttinge: the grass.  One of the code's solutions to that particular@ failure mode is that the wire and rod should have been installed! in a more "workman like manner." -  > By requiring a supplemental electrode for the cold mater pipe,9 the code simply makes the cold water pipe a more reliablec& (not more sufficient) earthing method.  ? >   You are misinterpreting what the code requires. The world'sa8 > electrically best earth ground still does not meet NEC; > requirements IF that earth ground does not always exist. 2> > Because earthing is now so critical, then water pipes are no@ > longer sufficient as the earthing connection.  Yes, cold water@ > pipes can supplement the earthing system.  But with or without? > a connection to cold water pipes, the building still requiresh@ > earthing by some other and reliable method. No way around that< > fact.  Cold water pipes are not acceptable as the earthing
 > system. @ > They are not reliable earthing.  Pipes can only supplement the > earthing system.  9 You seem to have ignored my point that two piping systems?: combined make a totally acceptable and sufficient earthing> system per code.  There is nothing inherently wrong with pipesA as an earthing method beyond the fact that they have a particulare# failure mode due to their dual use.t  > You also ignored my point that the exposed internal cold water9 pipe can be used as part of the bonding connection of the ; supplemental electrode.  In other words the supplemental isn< not required to be independently bonded and may fully depend@ on the continued existance of the exposed part of the cold water= pipe.  The service entrance's only bonding can be to the cold = water pipe and the supplemental's only bonding connection cano? be at some other point on the cold water pipe.  Note that thereiA is a failure mode here that the code ignores, but the more likelyr@ failure mode (i.e., the external part of the pipe being replaced? by plastic without appropriate changes being made regarding theO& internal pipe) is covered by the code.  @ >   Then we return to the point of this discussion.  Is the cold> > water pipe a less than 10 foot connection from each incoming8 > utility?  Another essential requirement for transistor? > protection.  Transistor protection means meeting (and usuallym> > exceeding) post 1990 code requirements.  The cold water pipe: > no longer provides sufficient earthing because it can be9 > replaced in plastic.  Other requirements for transistora: > protection include a 'less than 10 foot' connection to a > single point earth ground.  ? I don't have my codes handy so I can't quote chapter and verse,-? but the NEC requires the cold water pipe connection to meet them; same distance requirements as the other acceptable methods.c  = >   Effective transistor protection means meeting and usually 9 > exceeding post 1990 NEC requirements.  Those with oldero< > buildings should consider upgrading their earthing systems: > also for transistor safety reasons.  All this is for the7 > secondary protection system.  Earthing of the primary > > protection system should also be inspected as noted earlier:$ >    http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html > : >   Notice all this is never discussed by manufacturers of@ > plug-in UPSes.  They imply protection.  But again, earthing is< > the most essential part of a protection system.  Therefore< > plug-in UPS and power strip manufacturers hope we will not > learn about earthing.o >  > George Cook wrote:E >> The cold water pipe does in fact provide sufficient earthing.  TheaE >> supplemental is required for practical reasons as explained later.hC >> The key word here is "supplemental."  The code actually permits, G >> in some cases, the supplemental to be bonded to the grounding systemdC >> via a section of the cold water pipe.  The code also permits therB >> supplemental to be another underground piping system per (2003)H >> 250.52(A)(7) and 250.53(D)(2).  So a combination of metal undergroundC >> cold water and steam pipes would be a perfectly acceptable eartho> >> grounding system as far as the NEC is concerned.  "American? >> Electricians' Handbook Twelfth Edition" by Croft and SummershC >> page 9-188 states "Continuous metallic underground water systemsrD >> in general have a resistance to ground of less than 3 ohms."  TheB >> NEC only requires the entire grounding system provide a maximum >> of 25 ohms to ground. >> ... >> a@ >> The NFPA NEC 1990 Handbook does explain why: "The requirementA >> to supplement the metal water pipe is based on the practice ofy? >> using a plastic pipe for replacement when the original metal C >> water pipe fails from corrosion, which leaves the system without A >> a grounding electrode where the supplementary electrode is notlB >> provided."  See also "Practical Electrical Wiring 16th Edition"? >> by Richter and Schwan pages 311 to 312 which gives a similarm# >> explanation for the requirement.s >> ... >> oF >> My only point is that you shouldn't misrepresent the NEC in support >> of your argument.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:14:44 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>? Subject: Re: VMS DCL program sometimes freeze in a pipe commanda+ Message-ID: <42364514.8E054C28@comcast.net>    George Cornelius wrote:- > ] > In article <b7495cef.0503140038.7d2ac857@posting.google.com>, _raq_@yahoo.com (RAQ) writes:eD > > In about 1 of 200 times, my batchjob freezes in this line, afterC > > making several checks, it all the sudden decides not to run anye > > further. > >>I > > $  pipe  sh proc /ID='pid /all | sea sys$pipe "Connect time:"| ( readu) > > sys$input a ; define /job foobar  &a)e > >r > > The last time it was:eH > >  $  pipe  sh proc /ID=20352AF6/all | sea sys$pipe "Connect time:"| (. > > read sys$input a ; define /job foobar  &a) > 
 > Some ideas:s > J >  (1) Does  "define whatever &a"  even work when a contains white space?? > O >  (2) Debugging help: change everything starting with second vertical bar withi >  >     >'tmpfile' ; -O >    ( open xx 'tmpfile' ; read xx a ; a=f$ele(2," ",a) ; define.. ; close xx )m > 1 >    where tmpfile is defined in advance as, say,  > 2 >       $ tmpfile=f$getj("","PID")+"_SCRATCH.TMP;" > ) >    and you can clean up afterwards with  >  >       $ delete 'tmpfile' > K >    Note the (optional) use of f$ele to pull at just a single piece of theo( >    input and eliminate the whitespace. > G >    Look in the temporary file afterwards to try to diagnose the hang.  >  > --; > George Cornelius              cornelius@encompasserve.org-2 >                               cornelius@mayo.edu >  > > ! > > Anyone else experienced this?R$ > > Any good ideas for a workaround?  H Try using "/accounting" instead of "/all". This will produce less outputG and run a smaller chance of the pipeline "breaking". You don't indicatehB a VMS version; however, in older versions (V7.2 is when PIPE first% appeared), PIPE is somewhat "broken".t  F You can calculate the elapsed time for a process (within limits) usingF F$CVTIME() to get the current time, and F$GETJPI( pid, "LOGINTIM" ) to& find out when the process was created:   $ now = f$cvtime( ,, "time" ) 9 $ then = f$cvtime( f$getjpi( pid, "LOGINTIM" ),, "time" ) 1 $ elapsed = f$cvtime( "''now'-''then'",, "time" ),  C The limit is that this method can only "cross midnight" once. For aiD process which runs for multiple days (more than 24 hours), this will produce erroneous results.  C V8.2 of VMS adds a new lexical function to determine the difference  between two date/time stamps..   -- u David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:e" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/m   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:11:33 -0500l+ From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net>d? Subject: Re: VMS DCL program sometimes freeze in a pipe commandhA Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050314215445.04e64e90@mail.patmedia.net>h  8 At 09:14 PM 3/14/2005, David J Dachtera wrote (in part):  G >You can calculate the elapsed time for a process (within limits) usingiG >F$CVTIME() to get the current time, and F$GETJPI( pid, "LOGINTIM" ) toV' >find out when the process was created:a >% >$ now = f$cvtime( ,, "time" ): >$ then = f$cvtime( f$getjpi( pid, "LOGINTIM" ),, "time" )2 >$ elapsed = f$cvtime( "''now'-''then'",, "time" ) >nD >The limit is that this method can only "cross midnight" once. For aE >process which runs for multiple days (more than 24 hours), this willn >produce erroneous results.  >hD >V8.2 of VMS adds a new lexical function to determine the difference >between two date/time stamps.  7 Actually, that lexical, f$delta(), got added in v7.3-2.e   $start_time = f$tim()l
 $wait 0:01:00l $end_time = f$tim() A $write sys$output "Elapsed time: ", f$delta(start_time, end_time)a  $ Elapsed Time:    0 00:01:06.66   $ sho sys/noprocL OpenVMS V7.3-2  on node SPOCK  14-MAR-2005 22:10:59.04  Uptime  103 10:03:36   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:05:09 -05005' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com><6 Subject: RE: [OpenVMS V8.2, ASOVMS V7.3A4] Supported ?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594FBD@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----B > From: Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER [mailto:peter@langstoeger.at]=20 > Sent: March 14, 2005 1:06 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi4 > Subject: [OpenVMS V8.2, ASOVMS V7.3A4] Supported ? >=20A > I just saw that the Advanced Server for OpenVMS is currently=20S > V7.3A ECO 4. >=20> > The OpenVMS Rolling Roadmaps from March 2004 tell (on pg.38)" > that ECO 4 supports OpenVMS V8.2 >=202 > 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/roadmap/ >=20< > OpenVMS Alpha Rollout Reports tell that ASOVMS V7.3AECO=20 > supports up to 7.3-2 >=20> > 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/os/swroll/VAROL.HTML >=20 > Any insight ?o >=20 > TIA/ >=20 > --=20A > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialisti > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist >=20   Peter,  F I have been running Adv Server V7.3A Eco4 on Alpha VMS V8.2 internallyH for a number of weeks now with no issues. I do believe that OpenVMS V8.2 requires V7.3A Eco4.   Regardsg  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660< Fax: 613-591-4477o kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Mar 2005 12:35:53 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)? Subject: [OT] Linux, was: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEOr3 Message-ID: <r8QmIck5zbs9@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  k In article <42354e3d$0$78284$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:  > J > There are distributions out there, which differ from RedHat only in the  > logos.  F The main one been Fedora, which is currently at version Fedora Core 3.D This is RedHat minus the logos, is distributed by RedHat, and RedHatJ engineers participate in the RedHat run support forums (which I discovered& while having a problem installing it.)  E I'm disappointed by Kerry's somewhat flippant arguments. For example,eH people are unlikely to suddenly start doing inhouse kernel modificationsH on Linux unless they did the same thing on VMS, and if they do, then the9 support position would be the same as it would be on VMS.c  J Also, a convention in open source software, when you make changes that forI some reason or other are not integrated into the base code at once, is toqG distribute those changes as a patch from the base code. If you want thenJ additional facilities, you use the patch. If you don't, then you don't use
 the patch.  M Over time, one of two things will happen: either the patch will be integratedrM into the mainline or the enhancements will continue life as a separate patch.t  H For example, RTLinux (the real time extensions to Linux) are distributed$ as a patch against the Linux kernel.  H Another example, RTEMS, a open source RTOS from OAR, requires changes toG the compiler tools (both GCC and binutils) in order to build. InitiallygI these changes were distributed as full patches to the tools and over time = a number of them have been integrated into the mainline code.e   Simon.   -- mB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st centuryv   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:42:01 -0500o' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> C Subject: RE: [OT] Linux, was: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEO R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB594FC4@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Clubley=20: > [mailto:clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP]=20 > Sent: March 14, 2005 1:36 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > Subject: [OT] Linux, was: Re: HP on fast track to finding a CEOb >=20B > In article <42354e3d$0$78284$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>,=20/ > Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:  > >=20B > > There are distributions out there, which differ from RedHat=20 > only in the=20
 > > logos. >=20H > The main one been Fedora, which is currently at version Fedora Core 3.F > This is RedHat minus the logos, is distributed by RedHat, and RedHatB > engineers participate in the RedHat run support forums (which=20 > I discovered( > while having a problem installing it.) >=20G > I'm disappointed by Kerry's somewhat flippant arguments. For example,g? > people are unlikely to suddenly start doing inhouse kernel=20  > modifications @ > on Linux unless they did the same thing on VMS, and if they=20 > do, then the; > support position would be the same as it would be on VMS.- >=20   Simon,  " They were not flippant remarks.=20  H Previous replies stated things that stated one of the advantages of OpenG Source was that you could do kernel / driver/ priv'ed level changes andSH not wait on the vendor to make them.  Certainly, there are advantages ofD this capability, but I simply pointed out that there are issues withA this that need to be considered in terms of the level of risk thet! company is willing to take on.=20   H As I have been careful to say, there are advantages and disadvantages toF both approaches (open vs so called "closed") and one needs to consider; these when deciding which is best for your own environment.-  H Note - why is when anyone points out a disadvantage of open source, thatG almost immediately all of the open source promoters come rushing in andsF defending Open Source as if that one specific criticism was somehow an attack on Open Source overall?   Regardst  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantl HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-44776 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.147 ************************